Why Sidewalk Outreach And Protesting Are Not The Same

0:00 Yeah, Cuz because we're not, we do not consider our protest right. The idea that I'm a protest and I agree with you absolutely. I protest alongside you. I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center Pro Life Podcast, and this episode we're going to talk about some of the differences between protesting and proclaiming the Gospel in front of an abortion clinic while softball counsel. Stay with us. I am yours. Send Me Lord, Send Me Lord. I felt show passish touch your use me love. Hey there, this is Vicky and Daniel again in our gospel centered pro life podcast and, as we all know, we're all going through this terrible coronavirus pandemic, really struggling. In many ways. We've seen a big uptick in abortions, sadly, during this time, but there's also been a lot of press lately. There have been a lot of news reports, mostly stemming from the arrest of some of the people that were in front of our very abortion center. Yeah, I think we've. We've made national news.

1:22 We have made national news and invariably in these news reports we are called protest. Yes, so that's one of the things. Now. It's actually the thing we're going to talk about in this podcast. Yeah, because because we're not, we do not consider protest right, the idea that I'm a protest and I agree with you absolutely. I protest alongside you, and so we're going to talk about that because I think it it might seem like just a minor point for the yeas listening. Big Deal, Big del Yeah, you're a protester. We protest what you are. You know what you are. Cares what you're called? Right, right, right, yeah, who cares how you identify yourself? But on the same on those same news reports, look at what they called the socalled pro choice people, their advocates for reprotesteras rights advocates. Right, yeah, which would you rather be? I mean the advocate thing, you know, the bigger words and the more the very postal message, very positive protests and negative it seems like they're just against things. They don't have any you know, solutions. But an advocate and advocate that's a positive, wonderful title. Yeah, why do we always get slapped with the negative titles? You don't know. I think there's probably and so that's that's one of the reasons why we're protesting. That's right. In this podcast that we're not protesters. That's right. And so what we're particularly

2:53 talking about is what we cities for life, what we do at the abortion clinics and also what others across the nation are doing in front of the abortion clinics. You know, I identify as a sidewalk counselor can't? I identify as what I right like. I am not a protester. And the reason why this matters is because of the connotations that come with the term protests. Yeah, I mean you see the bias right there in the use of those words. I believe not only is the bias evident, but if there wasn't already a bias, well now there is. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, side hot counselors. They're not counselors. In fact, we were often made fun of and being calling ourselves counselors where we're pro protesters. Yes, is what the media says anti choice protesters to that's right. Get some yeah, exactly. Yeah. So you know, guys, we're not just complaining here on the podcast because we got a we got a bad rap with the media.

3:53 This matters, it does, this matters biblically. It matters that. And just right away we're going to say we're not saying there's anything wrong with protesting. Right there. Protesting is a necessary role or absolute testers. Sure, but there is a massive difference in protesting and what people understand protesting to be. Yeah, and what we're doing on the sidewalk right, as sidewalk counselors, as a big difference. Yeah, and so we're going to talk about some of those differences. Yeah. So maybe it always helps to define our terms first. Think it does. So what is a what is a protester? Well, in my mind, when someone talks about, you know, a protester or you know, you get a word picture. I don't know if you do that. Yes, usual person. Do I hear a word? There's this word picture that comes to my mind. And when I think of protester or Picketer, right, I think of people. They're out in front of a building, MMM, probably a government building most of the time, right, and they're walking back and forth with signs and they're saying no more whatever, right, you know, in our case, no more abortion, no more abortion, walking back and forth, right, they're chanting.

5:08 Primarily, I guess I think of a protester, someone that's appealing to a government entity or some entity in a position of power. Right Sri Forty, some authority could be a business we with. There were many protests, protesters in the past that that protest what they feel are on just business. Yeah, we will start us, certainly. Yeah, yeah, but mostly I think of, I guess, in a governmental sense, and that's why I say protests aren't bad. I think we can protest and we should protest against things that the government is doing that are not good. Yea, you know, there are folks now, we were still in the midst of this corona virus crisis, and there are people at capital buildings and states across the nation, and we're not going to get into whether or not they should be doing that, whether they shouldn't, but they're protesting the stayathome orders and in the I guess, abuse of power that they perceive their government is involved in.

6:01 And you know, yeah, we have a constitution in the United States. We have a first amendment for just that reason. That's right. So that's not a bad thing. So there's a grievance being aired or an injustice or something that that they feel is not right. That they are challenging and generally when I picture protesters, I picture a group. I don't usually picture just one or two. It's usually a group and usually circling around, like you said, chanting. Yeah, pick iting, in, in in a group, gathering. So pro life sidewalk counselors paid abortion. Yeah, we do want abortion to end. But are we protesting as we're standing in front of the abortion center doing our pro life work? Are we protesting? Are we doing something different? Well, I would think, I would hope, at least of course, from my perspective, we're not protesting right or proclaiming, but I would hope that if someone would come out who's never been out to the sidewalk and they would spend a couple of hours with us, that they would see you're not, you're not doing what I was thinking you're doing.

7:19 You're not here protesting. You're out here offering hope and help to these women going into the abort portion center. Yeah, and that's been the case. You know, we have gotten on social media some folks that would say you should be out there protest, even, you know, pro life people, people who would, maybe that's politically or whatever, aligned with us. Yeah, are saying, and this season you shouldn't be out there protesting like this is not the time for that. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what. I challenge anybody that would say that. And of course you have the right to protest. This my presence out there, okay, but I challenge you to come and spend an hour on the sidewalk with us at the abortion center here in Charlotte. Come and see what we're doing and see if you think what we're doing would be in the category of protests. And I know, I know why they're saying that. I mean, look at the movie unplanned, which which was, you know, in many ways. So there was a lot I really liked about that movie. Yeah, but the picture that they showed of the people in front of the abortion center, in front of that plan parenthood, there were two groups and one of those groups I probably would classify as protesters. Yeah, they were angry, they were shaking their fists, they were holding picket signs, sure, with with angry messages on it, and screaming, chanting a Yes, a group, and screaming at at the women going in. And that's not what we do, right, that's not not at all what we do. Now, I will say, you know, we're not trying to get in the weeds of the right and the wrong way to do things, and I've certainly experienced people that come out and it seems like they're more out there to protest abortion than they

8:54 are to actually reach the individuals. And that's, I guess, kind of the difference in my mind, is that in a protest you're trying to appeal to a government entity and entity of power. You're trying to you're trying to broadcast your grievances, right. Yeah, yeah, is that sound? I would agree with that. Yeah, in what we're doing a sidewalk counselors, we're trying to appeal to the individual mothers that are going into the abortion clinic that there is a better way, for the right there is help available to meet their needs and there's a God that loves them and that loves their baby. Yeah, and I think that a great way to talk about that is to maybe discuss, first of all, what is our model? Look, it is. What is everything that we do based upon Biblical yeah, and we do have a biblical model, and least for what we do in front of the abortion yeah, the model of our ministry since the beginning is lute, chapter ten in the parable of the Good Samaritan, right, and if you look at that story, the Good Samaritan is coming along the road from Jerusalem to Jericho and he sees this man who is, the Bible says, left half dead and I make it in the did right. And you know what he does? He instantly whips out a picket side. He does say, walks back and found shall not rob he walks back and forth, robbers should be punished and and calls all his friends to start chanting about robbery is and of course he starts a petition and he appeals to the to the Roman govern from it and take the Jewish government. We should stop the man in

10:26 the ditch problem, I should do something about this problem. Meanwhile he's bleeding to death, but we are going to continue with this protel. Of course, guess we're being a little funny here, and I'm not again, I'm not making fun of we're not making fun of appealing to the government and, of course, the desire to end abortion, you know, and the man in the ditch problem. Okay, so please don't be offended and think that we're marginalizing that we're not. Yeah, but we are trying to paint a picture of that's not at all what this the Good Samaritan did. He actually went to the man in the ditch. The Bible says, he cleaned off his wounds. Yeah, he put the man on his own animal and his donkey, took him to an end, provided for his needs, gave the innkeeper money and said if he needs anything else, so here's enough money to take care of his needs right now, but if he needs anything else, put it on my tab and I'll pay it later. So the model is actually going into the ditch and actually doing something with the man in the ditch.

11:22 And are in our case, we see that there are two people in the ditch. There's the mom and the baby. Yeah, and we want to go into that ditch, ie the abortion center, and we want to try by using our voices and the other means that God has given us. We literally can't barge in the doors and go into the ditch and drag them out, but by using our voices and the other means God has given us to get that mom and that baby out of the ditch and then the stuff that she's there for, because we understand even the most prideful woman that goes into that abortion clinic. You know, we had our podcast with Ebony, who was very candid and very open about just the selfishness. I mean she used those words. I was selfish. It was about me that she went to New York to have that late term abortion, but even in that she still had things that were going on. She still had wounds that she was dealing with and those wounds need to be tended to by God's grace. They were Yep, and that's what we're doing at the abortion clins we're trying to tend to those wounds. Were trying to show those moms that are in that ditch that there is healing for their wounds. Yeah, and of course, for their baby. There's life and their baby has value, and so we're appealing to them so they yeah, that's the model of our ministry and and beyond that, with the different connections that we talked about, often times we try to plug him into the end, you know, take them to the end keeper and provide for their needs, whether that means getting housing for them, whether that means getting clothing, baby shower items for them, whatever it means, we want to try to meet those needs. Put them on our

12:52 own animal. That's sometimes that means put them in your own car and taking them back home or taking them to to a maternity home or something like that. We've had those situations at some point. Vicky, we need for you to share your story about a young lady that ultimately you are chased by the police because because you got her away from the abortion center and she was being pressured by a family member to have the abortion right. Yeah, that's a fun story. That is it. Will share that at some points. A good but that's that. Yeah, that's like the Good Samaritan, Robbie, running, running on. He was going as Fastas you know. He was going fast. Just God worked it out. Gays think he didn't end up in jail and good she's the baby's alive and well. Man's awesome story.

13:35 Let's not this. That's not we won't get right trail on that. Right, right. But again, that's the picture, Luke, chapter ten, the the parable of the Good Samaritan, is what we're doing. And again I see in the Good Samaritan parable. He's not protesting. Yeah, he's intervening the good, good word. That's the difference. I think that's a really great word. Protest versus use mention word. That is a good one. And and now Jesus is the one that tells the story of the good stared tenders, but Jesus himself examining. We are to be like Jesus, right, yeah, His grace we will be. Will be one day. And and so it's I think it is always so helpful to examine. Well, what did Jesus do? Yeah, which Jesus a protester? Or was he an interventionist? How Sad? Is that a good word? Yeah, I guess. Yeah, so there's there's so many places that we we can look for the answer. That's what would you say, is, did Jesus protest? I mean I would say Jesus in one sense, if you look at his dealings with the Pharisees, he certainly protested their hypocrisy. He did.

14:43 Yeah, and he certainly pointed out to the people, he even told his disciples beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is his hypocrisy. Right, yeah, you putting up this body of beliefs and these hoops you got to jump through religiously, but not even keep into those those those requirements yourself. It was hypocrisy. Yeah, so I think in one sense, certainly Jesus protested. He certainly protested sin. Of just in general. Yeah, he did well. He hated sin, no doubt, absolutely sin. It's what separate test from God. But was he marked by not testing? I don't think so at all. I think the mark of Jesus Ministry. You know, when we look at the Gospels and we also look at the writings of the Apostles Paul and Peter John, we see Christ as in interventionist.

15:37 Yeah, he intervened. You know, the Bible says that Jesus Christ came into this world to save centers. Paul says this and he says, of WHO I am the chief, he's the chief, was centers. Jesus Christ came to save sinners, he came to intervene, he came to go into the hedges and the highways and compel them to come in. And so it wasn't just when just broadcasting grievances. Certainly Jesus did that with Pharisees mainly. Right. Yeah, he protested sin, like even with a woman called an adultery. There's one point. You people think of Jesus was just nice and warm and kind. He was very gracious of that woman, but he didn't say go and send no more so one, since that was a protest of her lifestyle. Yeah, but he intervened in that situation. Yeah, so I think as well know as sidewalk counselors, the the main mark of our our movement out there on the sidewalk and what we do out there on the sidewalk should be one of intervention. We're intervening. We're intervening primarily on behalf of that baby, to not protest but to plead, even with the mother, right to appeal to her right to intervene and to say that baby right and the intervention get her out of the ditch, to exactly in the intervention may involve. In fact it has to involve the naming of the issue that is causing the wound. And so in a sense, that really is well, there is a grievous sin, there's this sins that brought you here, but there's this in your contemplating of just trying your baby, and and

17:10 that does need to be addressed. It needs to be named. But there are solutions. In true intervention you don't just name a problem, but you have a solution to your problem. So one of those stories that I thought of, and it's maybe not the best illustration, but I think it does illustrate the point, is the woman at the well, right when John Chapter for right, right when Jesus confronts the woman at the well. And so he he doesn't stand there again with a picket sign that says adultery is bad and and and line up his disciples with signs, yes, that they march around the wells. It does seem if you look at you protests when I think anybody would have been a file degree. That's a protest. But you see a lot of times little pithy statements and stuff like that. You wrote one in the context of this story that made me laugh. It's like the disciples didn't have on, didn't have a tshirt own or didn't have a sign that said this. What's the statement you get? If you cheating, you will be beaten. And you know, Marky, you for you will be beaten. Marching around the well and and in in this massive protest against and I mean the woman had had seven husbands, well five five. Jesus doesn't shy away from pointing this out. He does not, but he doesn't rest there. It's one line, I think he's got one line where he mentioned, you know, she's clearly in sin. He's he's making note of it.

18:37 You are in sin. Yeah, she's coming there for what she perceives as her need. Your need is water. She's thirsty, right. Yeah, she needs to draw water from the well. But Jesus doesn't let her stay in a place of what she thinks she needs to do. He intervenes and brings her to the point of recognizing there is a much more important yeah, yeah, I mean he actually, if you read through that story, he's taking this natural need, which is water, and he's showing her that really her need is living water, spiritual water, right, and you know, he goes right from talking about the water talking about her spiritual thirst that needs to be quenched. And only he says, if you knew who it was that speaks, you would ask him for living water and he would give you the water that you drink of and you will never thirst again. And she's clueless. She's saying, we'll get me some of that. Yeah, well, yeah, but if you see what he's doing there is he's really painting a picture of her spiritual need. Right, he's showing her you've been trying to satisfy your thirst with men, right, and with sexual relationships that dishonor the Lord and dishonor what you're called to be before the Lord. Yeah, but the water that I give you a spiritual water. What you really need to quench your thirst is me. Right. So he's not protesting, he's proclaiming certain truths and he's intervening in her life in such a way where

20:10 she's impacted. And she didn't just stay there at the whales. A matter of fact, she takes off back to the city and Samaria, yeah, and begins to proclaim this Christ throughout that this could this be the Messiah. Yeah, and I think you said in this little ride up which will put out on the sidewalks for life site, which is comparing and contrasting protest against sidewalk counseling, which I think is really good, and you talk about she's one of the first evangelists right in the new tests. Exactly, one of the her maybe the first moment evangelist. And I love what you said because the way you'd painted that pic, sure of what's happening at the well, it's very easy to make the connection about what we're doing in front of the abortion center. The women colme expressing their need is get rid of that baby, give it to that baby and and life will be okay again. And our role as an interventionist is first to say, well, really, that's not what your need is and it's actually a sin. Yeah, what you're what you're contemplating doing, what you're Gontablit in doing, is not a solution.

21:17 That's right, actually part of the problem and it's it's what led them to this place, this terrible places, is all of this other sin in the background, that that will just continue. And so the intervention is that that need for Christ, yeah, for an an any Gospel Focus Sidewalk counseling group wants to point these women to truly the only answer to abortion, which is to come to a saving understanding of what it means to truly submit your life. Yeah, to Jesus Christ. Yeah. So I think in one sense, when we're looking at protests, a protest is defined in the appeal that's given to to an entity. You know, you're appealing to an entity to to listen to your grievances or what right and with what we're doing in proclamation and intervention, in side will counseling is yeah, we're appealing to an entity, but it's to an individual and we're appealing to her heart. She you know, she doesn't have the power. A woman going into an abortion clinic does not have the power to end abortion nationally. Right, she can't make abortion go away and we're not appealing to her to do that. But what she can do is she can obey God and that one abortion that she's about to be a part of, well, she has the power to choose to stop that. Right. So we're feeling to an individual and we're trying

22:48 to show her the direction she's going is one of destruction. So we're not just appealing to her for her baby, we're appealing to her for her sake as well. That's right. And earlier you said we're not really trying to slam all protesters and honestly, as I was thinking, and I agree, I think that there is a place for for protests. And as I was thinking, well, is there a biblical example of protest? And you mentioned that what Jesus says to the Pharisees and I think that would that would apply. But I was thinking of the book of Esther, Hmm. And there's really two protests, in my opinion, that that take place in there, that book, and I won't go through the whole story of Esther. It's a fantastic book. Everyone should read it. Yeah, but the first protest, I think, occurs with Queen Vashti. Yeah, Queen Barsti is married to King Ahasuerus, I believe. Sure, and yeah, it's and and Queen Vashti is apparently very beautiful and and the king is having an orgy, a drunken orgy, with all of his buddies, okay, and and calls for Queen Vashti to come and there's some indication that he wants her to come in only her veil, in other words nothing else, wearing nothing else for basically allude display. And Queen Vashti protest. Yeah, she does, just for you know, in the version that that I know, I know the veggie Tales version. Okay, the veggie Tales version is that he asked her

24:19 to come and make her make him a sandwich and she she protests. So maybe just for kids, say we will, we'll go that version. She's but but protesting. Make It, she re uses she she protest what is clearly an unjust or my opinion and an unjust request by the king, and she appeals to the Authority, who is the king. Uh Huh, no, I don't test, I'm not going to make you a sandwich. And it was a successful protest. She, as far as I know, she was not killed, which surprises me. But the the king recognizes it as a protest, as do all of his court of Fishes, who say, Oh, this cannot stand. You can allow this kind of protest, or all husbands are going to be in danger of their wives not making them, not making them sand that would be terrible. Right. So it sets the stage for then esther, who's the heroine of the book, book of Vester, and Esther, through a series of events that I won't go into, replaces Queen Vashti. She becomes queen and a plot is uncovered by her uncle, Mordecai, that the evil man who hates the Jews, hey man is, has has worked out this plot with the king to have the Jewish people

25:49 exterminated on a certain day and the king has set the seal that says yeah, you can do this. Yeah, he doesn't know that Esther is Jewish and esther has kept that secret. But Mordecai says, esther, you got to go to the king. You got it, you got to tell him what's about to happen to your people, admit that, yeah, that you're Jewish and that your people are going to be exterminated through this evil plot. So basically, you're going to have give before the king, right, government entity, right, and protest this decision. And her her going before the entity was that grave personal danger because, sin by the law of that times, she could not go before the king without being called and right. Tells Mordecai that. And and then ultimately she decide she will go, she will make this protests and he allows her to make the protest and she does.

26:48 She doesn't set out a solution, she doesn't have the solution. Yeah, she is protesting an unjust action before the one who is an authority, and ultimately he provides a solution and her people are safe. So again, the that protest was successful and saved the lives of, yeah, the Jews. Right. Yeah. So, so in that you know, there were there was certainly intervention. Yeah, right, this this government entity, but not by her. Not, but the intervention was not by her. Yeah, so that's why, Authorio. Again, we're not discount protests, right, and the need for us to protest certain things that the government does or doesn't do. We need to do that and things can change. Protests can change things. They have throughout the history of this country, throughout the history of the world, and and so they're good, right, but that's just not what we're doing on the Sidewak, right, and you know, it even has more special relevance right now during this coronavirus, thinks, because I don't believe that protesters are specifically exempt. I think people could argue that, but ministries providing intervention are, yeah, exempt in the stay home order, being in the stay at home orders with this coronavirus, and I think, therefore, the use of the word protester in and face it what are mostly liberal media publications is, I think it's purposeful. promesters aren't except. However,

28:22 though, actually it seems that protests are exempt, because that's writing a line with the First Amendment, right, and there have been actually our governor here, the the legal counsel to our governor, has recently written a letter in response to some other legislators who were giving some grievances. Yeah, about the police department in Raleigh saying basically that protests aren't essential, and the governor, through his attorney, is respondings and well, you're right, protests can go on, but just needs to be social did so. Actually, now they're recognizing, because of the First Amendment, that protests are valid activities. The First Amendment and the Constitution don't just go out the door because of our stayathome order. Yeah, and thankfully that's again, I think, why some of these protests are important, so that people are pushing back against government overreaching all that. But again, it's not really relevant to what we're doing because we're intervening. We're doing all the the things that within the exceptions and all of that. As far as offering tangible resources and support, real counseling services, real resources to meet practical needs and all that stuff, we're doing that.

29:36 Yeah. So, anyway, not the protesters are bad. Yeah, this is again it's not what we're doing on the sidewalk as I will counsel. Yeah, and ultimately, you know, kind of summarize sing a lot of these thoughts Jesus did not come to condemn the world, right, but to save the world. And and I think, and I could be wrong in this, but but my sense of protesting is that there's something we're condemning. Yeah, and in some manner we are condemning it as wrong and and needs to be changed. Yeah, but Jesus Perspective was definitely intervention, Salfasian, save the world. Absolutely, that's why he came. Ye, Romans, Chapter Five, verse eight comes to mind. God demonstrated his own love towards us and that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

30:27 Yeah, so you have that word demonstration. All right, we think about a protest as a demonstration. That's not what it's talking about. He demonstrates his it's talking about an actual demonstration and actual, not just outward displayed intervention, or that God intervened to a loss and dying world, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ came and he died, he laid his life down. Yeah, and you know that message, the message of the Gospel, is God to be for us who are out there on the sidewalk and doing ministry, those who are in pregnancy, sinners. I want to encourage those were in pregnancy centers who are doing the difficult ministry and staying open through this coronavirus thing and jumping through all the hoops and the guidelines and all of that stuff. Keep doing what you're doing. Keep also bringing the Gospel, because it's the only message that can really change a heart. When we're appealing to a mother, yeah, the Gospel is the only message it's really going to change your heart. You might appeal to her and she might choose life for, you know, a few days and then she could go back to the abortion clinical. She might choose life for that baby, get caught on another situation and go back to the abortion clinical with the next child.

31:34 That's right with Yep. So that's why we're not just protesting to her, we're not just protesting to the government. We're proclaiming the Gospel. That will change your heart, and the Gospel Will Change Society as it takes root in these government people in positions of power, these presidents and judges and legislators and all that. Once the Gospel takes root in a society, things change. Yeah, so all of this is all these things sort of work together. You know, the protesting. Yeah, appealing to government entities, yeah, okay, proclaiming individual intervention and those things work together ultimately to bring Lord to Jesus and to save lives. Right. So we just wanted to have this podcast and to share some of the differences that we see and really to say hey, protesting, do it whatever, but proclaiming the truth on the sidewalk and being there a side well counters, that's what we're doing. That's we're going to keep doing, by by the grace of God. Amen. So, guys, we do want to encourage you. We're going to and the coming days, put this article out help you, guys, understand some of the differences between protesting and and being out there on the sidewalk as a sidewalk counselor to help encourage you, to help you maybe answer some other people's questions who are wondering why you're going out there. So we're going to put this out on our sidewalks for life site sidewalks and number four lifecom. So we encourage you to go there. We also encourage you to share our PODCASTS, go back and listen to some of the other episodes that we put out there, share on social media what you know what we're doing here on this podcast

33:07 and reach out to us. D Parks at cities for lifecom is my email address v Cassi Org at cities for lifecom is hers. We'd love to hear from you. Would love to hear some suggestions about other podcast episodes that we can do. But until next time, God bless me, ove for love, give me our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious. And some met you