April 30, 2020

Why Sidewalk Outreach And Protesting Are Not The Same

Why Sidewalk Outreach And Protesting Are Not The Same

There is a big difference between sidewalk counseling and protesting. Certainly, both are valid and Biblical but one is more effective than the other in reaching abortion-minded women. Join Vicky and Daniel as they look at this from a Biblical...


There is a big difference between sidewalk counseling and protesting. Certainly, both are valid and Biblical but one is more effective than the other in reaching abortion-minded women. Join Vicky and Daniel as they look at this from a Biblical perspective. 

https://sidewalks4life.com/why-sidewalk-counseling-is-not-protesting/

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.519 Yeah, Cuz because we're not, we do not consider our protest right. 2 00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:09.269 The idea that I'm a protest and I agree with you absolutely. I protest 3 00:00:09.349 --> 00:00:15.630 alongside you. I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. 4 00:00:16.190 --> 00:00:19.469 Welcome to the Gospel Center Pro Life Podcast, and this episode we're going to 5 00:00:19.510 --> 00:00:23.940 talk about some of the differences between protesting and proclaiming the Gospel in front of 6 00:00:23.940 --> 00:00:28.379 an abortion clinic while softball counsel. Stay with us. I am yours. 7 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:42.490 Send Me Lord, Send Me Lord. I felt show passish touch your use 8 00:00:42.689 --> 00:00:50.359 me love. Hey there, this is Vicky and Daniel again in our gospel 9 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:55.679 centered pro life podcast and, as we all know, we're all going through 10 00:00:55.759 --> 00:01:02.320 this terrible coronavirus pandemic, really struggling. In many ways. We've seen a 11 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:07.989 big uptick in abortions, sadly, during this time, but there's also been 12 00:01:07.030 --> 00:01:11.349 a lot of press lately. There have been a lot of news reports, 13 00:01:11.150 --> 00:01:17.750 mostly stemming from the arrest of some of the people that were in front of 14 00:01:17.829 --> 00:01:22.260 our very abortion center. Yeah, I think we've. We've made national news. 15 00:01:22.340 --> 00:01:27.420 We have made national news and invariably in these news reports we are called 16 00:01:29.379 --> 00:01:33.769 protest. Yes, so that's one of the things. Now. It's actually 17 00:01:33.890 --> 00:01:36.969 the thing we're going to talk about in this podcast. Yeah, because because 18 00:01:37.049 --> 00:01:42.290 we're not, we do not consider protest right, the idea that I'm a 19 00:01:42.370 --> 00:01:47.239 protest and I agree with you absolutely. I protest alongside you, and so 20 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:52.359 we're going to talk about that because I think it it might seem like just 21 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:56.879 a minor point for the yeas listening. Big Deal, Big del Yeah, 22 00:01:56.920 --> 00:01:59.840 you're a protester. We protest what you are. You know what you are. 23 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:01.549 Cares what you're called? Right, right, right, yeah, who 24 00:02:01.629 --> 00:02:06.590 cares how you identify yourself? But on the same on those same news reports, 25 00:02:06.790 --> 00:02:10.629 look at what they called the socalled pro choice people, their advocates for 26 00:02:12.590 --> 00:02:17.340 reprotesteras rights advocates. Right, yeah, which would you rather be? I 27 00:02:17.460 --> 00:02:21.860 mean the advocate thing, you know, the bigger words and the more the 28 00:02:22.099 --> 00:02:28.180 very postal message, very positive protests and negative it seems like they're just against 29 00:02:28.379 --> 00:02:32.449 things. They don't have any you know, solutions. But an advocate and 30 00:02:32.770 --> 00:02:40.050 advocate that's a positive, wonderful title. Yeah, why do we always get 31 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:44.050 slapped with the negative titles? You don't know. I think there's probably and 32 00:02:44.169 --> 00:02:46.120 so that's that's one of the reasons why we're protesting. That's right. In 33 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:52.919 this podcast that we're not protesters. That's right. And so what we're particularly 34 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:55.759 talking about is what we cities for life, what we do at the abortion 35 00:02:55.800 --> 00:03:01.590 clinics and also what others across the nation are doing in front of the abortion 36 00:03:01.669 --> 00:03:07.469 clinics. You know, I identify as a sidewalk counselor can't? I identify 37 00:03:07.509 --> 00:03:10.870 as what I right like. I am not a protester. And the reason 38 00:03:10.909 --> 00:03:17.020 why this matters is because of the connotations that come with the term protests. 39 00:03:17.060 --> 00:03:21.180 Yeah, I mean you see the bias right there in the use of those 40 00:03:21.219 --> 00:03:25.020 words. I believe not only is the bias evident, but if there wasn't 41 00:03:25.020 --> 00:03:29.569 already a bias, well now there is. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 42 00:03:29.650 --> 00:03:31.770 side hot counselors. They're not counselors. In fact, we were often made 43 00:03:31.849 --> 00:03:38.210 fun of and being calling ourselves counselors where we're pro protesters. Yes, is 44 00:03:38.330 --> 00:03:44.919 what the media says anti choice protesters to that's right. Get some yeah, 45 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:49.360 exactly. Yeah. So you know, guys, we're not just complaining here 46 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:53.080 on the podcast because we got a we got a bad rap with the media. 47 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:58.069 This matters, it does, this matters biblically. It matters that. 48 00:03:59.189 --> 00:04:02.949 And just right away we're going to say we're not saying there's anything wrong with 49 00:04:03.110 --> 00:04:08.710 protesting. Right there. Protesting is a necessary role or absolute testers. Sure, 50 00:04:08.949 --> 00:04:15.500 but there is a massive difference in protesting and what people understand protesting to 51 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:20.620 be. Yeah, and what we're doing on the sidewalk right, as sidewalk 52 00:04:20.660 --> 00:04:24.610 counselors, as a big difference. Yeah, and so we're going to talk 53 00:04:24.649 --> 00:04:28.730 about some of those differences. Yeah. So maybe it always helps to define 54 00:04:29.089 --> 00:04:33.009 our terms first. Think it does. So what is a what is a 55 00:04:33.129 --> 00:04:39.079 protester? Well, in my mind, when someone talks about, you know, 56 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:41.639 a protester or you know, you get a word picture. I don't 57 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.319 know if you do that. Yes, usual person. Do I hear a 58 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:46.920 word? There's this word picture that comes to my mind. And when I 59 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:51.040 think of protester or Picketer, right, I think of people. They're out 60 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:56.069 in front of a building, MMM, probably a government building most of the 61 00:04:56.189 --> 00:05:00.310 time, right, and they're walking back and forth with signs and they're saying 62 00:05:00.750 --> 00:05:02.550 no more whatever, right, you know, in our case, no more 63 00:05:02.629 --> 00:05:06.110 abortion, no more abortion, walking back and forth, right, they're chanting. 64 00:05:08.540 --> 00:05:12.459 Primarily, I guess I think of a protester, someone that's appealing to 65 00:05:13.139 --> 00:05:17.139 a government entity or some entity in a position of power. Right Sri Forty, 66 00:05:17.339 --> 00:05:20.449 some authority could be a business we with. There were many protests, 67 00:05:20.569 --> 00:05:25.730 protesters in the past that that protest what they feel are on just business. 68 00:05:26.009 --> 00:05:28.930 Yeah, we will start us, certainly. Yeah, yeah, but mostly 69 00:05:28.930 --> 00:05:31.970 I think of, I guess, in a governmental sense, and that's why 70 00:05:31.970 --> 00:05:35.720 I say protests aren't bad. I think we can protest and we should protest 71 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:41.439 against things that the government is doing that are not good. Yea, you 72 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:43.519 know, there are folks now, we were still in the midst of this 73 00:05:43.639 --> 00:05:48.519 corona virus crisis, and there are people at capital buildings and states across the 74 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.069 nation, and we're not going to get into whether or not they should be 75 00:05:51.110 --> 00:05:56.310 doing that, whether they shouldn't, but they're protesting the stayathome orders and in 76 00:05:56.470 --> 00:06:01.310 the I guess, abuse of power that they perceive their government is involved in. 77 00:06:01.550 --> 00:06:05.259 And you know, yeah, we have a constitution in the United States. 78 00:06:05.300 --> 00:06:09.100 We have a first amendment for just that reason. That's right. So 79 00:06:09.259 --> 00:06:13.540 that's not a bad thing. So there's a grievance being aired or an injustice 80 00:06:13.579 --> 00:06:20.730 or something that that they feel is not right. That they are challenging and 81 00:06:21.050 --> 00:06:27.889 generally when I picture protesters, I picture a group. I don't usually picture 82 00:06:27.970 --> 00:06:30.649 just one or two. It's usually a group and usually circling around, like 83 00:06:30.810 --> 00:06:35.680 you said, chanting. Yeah, pick iting, in, in in a 84 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:44.399 group, gathering. So pro life sidewalk counselors paid abortion. Yeah, we 85 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:48.589 do want abortion to end. But are we protesting as we're standing in front 86 00:06:48.709 --> 00:06:58.670 of the abortion center doing our pro life work? Are we protesting? Are 87 00:06:58.750 --> 00:07:03.180 we doing something different? Well, I would think, I would hope, 88 00:07:03.620 --> 00:07:09.019 at least of course, from my perspective, we're not protesting right or proclaiming, 89 00:07:09.139 --> 00:07:12.620 but I would hope that if someone would come out who's never been out 90 00:07:12.660 --> 00:07:15.129 to the sidewalk and they would spend a couple of hours with us, that 91 00:07:15.250 --> 00:07:19.209 they would see you're not, you're not doing what I was thinking you're doing. 92 00:07:19.250 --> 00:07:24.170 You're not here protesting. You're out here offering hope and help to these 93 00:07:24.250 --> 00:07:27.209 women going into the abort portion center. Yeah, and that's been the case. 94 00:07:27.329 --> 00:07:30.680 You know, we have gotten on social media some folks that would say 95 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.120 you should be out there protest, even, you know, pro life people, 96 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:36.600 people who would, maybe that's politically or whatever, aligned with us. 97 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:41.959 Yeah, are saying, and this season you shouldn't be out there protesting like 98 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:44.870 this is not the time for that. Okay. Well, I'll tell you 99 00:07:44.949 --> 00:07:46.750 what. I challenge anybody that would say that. And of course you have 100 00:07:46.990 --> 00:07:51.750 the right to protest. This my presence out there, okay, but I 101 00:07:51.910 --> 00:07:56.750 challenge you to come and spend an hour on the sidewalk with us at the 102 00:07:56.790 --> 00:08:00.939 abortion center here in Charlotte. Come and see what we're doing and see if 103 00:08:00.980 --> 00:08:03.899 you think what we're doing would be in the category of protests. And I 104 00:08:03.980 --> 00:08:05.899 know, I know why they're saying that. I mean, look at the 105 00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:09.699 movie unplanned, which which was, you know, in many ways. So 106 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:11.889 there was a lot I really liked about that movie. Yeah, but the 107 00:08:13.009 --> 00:08:16.529 picture that they showed of the people in front of the abortion center, in 108 00:08:16.649 --> 00:08:18.889 front of that plan parenthood, there were two groups and one of those groups 109 00:08:18.930 --> 00:08:22.089 I probably would classify as protesters. Yeah, they were angry, they were 110 00:08:22.089 --> 00:08:26.850 shaking their fists, they were holding picket signs, sure, with with angry 111 00:08:26.889 --> 00:08:30.959 messages on it, and screaming, chanting a Yes, a group, and 112 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:35.080 screaming at at the women going in. And that's not what we do, 113 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:39.759 right, that's not not at all what we do. Now, I will 114 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.909 say, you know, we're not trying to get in the weeds of the 115 00:08:43.029 --> 00:08:48.350 right and the wrong way to do things, and I've certainly experienced people that 116 00:08:48.549 --> 00:08:54.029 come out and it seems like they're more out there to protest abortion than they 117 00:08:54.029 --> 00:08:56.740 are to actually reach the individuals. And that's, I guess, kind of 118 00:08:56.779 --> 00:09:01.259 the difference in my mind, is that in a protest you're trying to appeal 119 00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:07.299 to a government entity and entity of power. You're trying to you're trying to 120 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:11.690 broadcast your grievances, right. Yeah, yeah, is that sound? I 121 00:09:11.730 --> 00:09:15.129 would agree with that. Yeah, in what we're doing a sidewalk counselors, 122 00:09:15.330 --> 00:09:18.529 we're trying to appeal to the individual mothers that are going into the abortion clinic 123 00:09:18.889 --> 00:09:22.850 that there is a better way, for the right there is help available to 124 00:09:22.889 --> 00:09:26.320 meet their needs and there's a God that loves them and that loves their baby. 125 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:30.399 Yeah, and I think that a great way to talk about that is 126 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.240 to maybe discuss, first of all, what is our model? Look, 127 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:39.269 it is. What is everything that we do based upon Biblical yeah, and 128 00:09:39.350 --> 00:09:41.750 we do have a biblical model, and least for what we do in front 129 00:09:41.789 --> 00:09:48.309 of the abortion yeah, the model of our ministry since the beginning is lute, 130 00:09:48.350 --> 00:09:50.750 chapter ten in the parable of the Good Samaritan, right, and if 131 00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:56.940 you look at that story, the Good Samaritan is coming along the road from 132 00:09:56.940 --> 00:10:01.539 Jerusalem to Jericho and he sees this man who is, the Bible says, 133 00:10:01.580 --> 00:10:03.779 left half dead and I make it in the did right. And you know 134 00:10:03.860 --> 00:10:07.210 what he does? He instantly whips out a picket side. He does say, 135 00:10:07.330 --> 00:10:13.009 walks back and found shall not rob he walks back and forth, robbers 136 00:10:13.090 --> 00:10:18.250 should be punished and and calls all his friends to start chanting about robbery is 137 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:22.039 and of course he starts a petition and he appeals to the to the Roman 138 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:26.759 govern from it and take the Jewish government. We should stop the man in 139 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:28.799 the ditch problem, I should do something about this problem. Meanwhile he's bleeding 140 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:33.360 to death, but we are going to continue with this protel. Of course, 141 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:35.470 guess we're being a little funny here, and I'm not again, I'm 142 00:10:35.470 --> 00:10:39.830 not making fun of we're not making fun of appealing to the government and, 143 00:10:39.590 --> 00:10:43.029 of course, the desire to end abortion, you know, and the man 144 00:10:43.190 --> 00:10:46.629 in the ditch problem. Okay, so please don't be offended and think that 145 00:10:46.950 --> 00:10:50.620 we're marginalizing that we're not. Yeah, but we are trying to paint a 146 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:54.940 picture of that's not at all what this the Good Samaritan did. He actually 147 00:10:56.019 --> 00:11:00.340 went to the man in the ditch. The Bible says, he cleaned off 148 00:11:00.460 --> 00:11:03.860 his wounds. Yeah, he put the man on his own animal and his 149 00:11:03.980 --> 00:11:07.730 donkey, took him to an end, provided for his needs, gave the 150 00:11:07.809 --> 00:11:11.769 innkeeper money and said if he needs anything else, so here's enough money to 151 00:11:11.769 --> 00:11:13.889 take care of his needs right now, but if he needs anything else, 152 00:11:13.169 --> 00:11:16.970 put it on my tab and I'll pay it later. So the model is 153 00:11:16.169 --> 00:11:22.279 actually going into the ditch and actually doing something with the man in the ditch. 154 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.279 And are in our case, we see that there are two people in 155 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.679 the ditch. There's the mom and the baby. Yeah, and we want 156 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:33.149 to go into that ditch, ie the abortion center, and we want to 157 00:11:33.230 --> 00:11:37.509 try by using our voices and the other means that God has given us. 158 00:11:37.590 --> 00:11:41.309 We literally can't barge in the doors and go into the ditch and drag them 159 00:11:41.350 --> 00:11:45.230 out, but by using our voices and the other means God has given us 160 00:11:46.029 --> 00:11:48.179 to get that mom and that baby out of the ditch and then the stuff 161 00:11:48.220 --> 00:11:52.860 that she's there for, because we understand even the most prideful woman that goes 162 00:11:52.899 --> 00:11:56.820 into that abortion clinic. You know, we had our podcast with Ebony, 163 00:11:56.139 --> 00:12:01.610 who was very candid and very open about just the selfishness. I mean she 164 00:12:01.690 --> 00:12:05.049 used those words. I was selfish. It was about me that she went 165 00:12:05.129 --> 00:12:07.250 to New York to have that late term abortion, but even in that she 166 00:12:07.409 --> 00:12:11.009 still had things that were going on. She still had wounds that she was 167 00:12:11.169 --> 00:12:16.960 dealing with and those wounds need to be tended to by God's grace. They 168 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.399 were Yep, and that's what we're doing at the abortion clins we're trying to 169 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:22.000 tend to those wounds. Were trying to show those moms that are in that 170 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:26.000 ditch that there is healing for their wounds. Yeah, and of course, 171 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:31.230 for their baby. There's life and their baby has value, and so we're 172 00:12:31.230 --> 00:12:33.149 appealing to them so they yeah, that's the model of our ministry and and 173 00:12:33.269 --> 00:12:37.669 beyond that, with the different connections that we talked about, often times we 174 00:12:37.830 --> 00:12:41.389 try to plug him into the end, you know, take them to the 175 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:46.340 end keeper and provide for their needs, whether that means getting housing for them, 176 00:12:46.460 --> 00:12:50.700 whether that means getting clothing, baby shower items for them, whatever it 177 00:12:50.820 --> 00:12:52.820 means, we want to try to meet those needs. Put them on our 178 00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:58.500 own animal. That's sometimes that means put them in your own car and taking 179 00:12:58.539 --> 00:13:01.490 them back home or taking them to to a maternity home or something like that. 180 00:13:01.649 --> 00:13:05.529 We've had those situations at some point. Vicky, we need for you 181 00:13:05.610 --> 00:13:11.330 to share your story about a young lady that ultimately you are chased by the 182 00:13:11.409 --> 00:13:15.440 police because because you got her away from the abortion center and she was being 183 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.679 pressured by a family member to have the abortion right. Yeah, that's a 184 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:20.080 fun story. That is it. Will share that at some points. A 185 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.600 good but that's that. Yeah, that's like the Good Samaritan, Robbie, 186 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:26.909 running, running on. He was going as Fastas you know. He was 187 00:13:26.990 --> 00:13:31.029 going fast. Just God worked it out. Gays think he didn't end up 188 00:13:31.029 --> 00:13:35.789 in jail and good she's the baby's alive and well. Man's awesome story. 189 00:13:35.110 --> 00:13:37.990 Let's not this. That's not we won't get right trail on that. Right, 190 00:13:39.149 --> 00:13:41.340 right. But again, that's the picture, Luke, chapter ten, 191 00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:45.659 the the parable of the Good Samaritan, is what we're doing. And again 192 00:13:45.740 --> 00:13:50.820 I see in the Good Samaritan parable. He's not protesting. Yeah, he's 193 00:13:50.899 --> 00:13:54.259 intervening the good, good word. That's the difference. I think that's a 194 00:13:54.460 --> 00:14:00.090 really great word. Protest versus use mention word. That is a good one. 195 00:14:00.330 --> 00:14:03.570 And and now Jesus is the one that tells the story of the good 196 00:14:03.610 --> 00:14:07.929 stared tenders, but Jesus himself examining. We are to be like Jesus, 197 00:14:09.210 --> 00:14:13.879 right, yeah, His grace we will be. Will be one day. 198 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:18.039 And and so it's I think it is always so helpful to examine. Well, 199 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.600 what did Jesus do? Yeah, which Jesus a protester? Or was 200 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:26.509 he an interventionist? How Sad? Is that a good word? Yeah, 201 00:14:26.870 --> 00:14:30.950 I guess. Yeah, so there's there's so many places that we we can 202 00:14:31.750 --> 00:14:35.789 look for the answer. That's what would you say, is, did Jesus 203 00:14:35.909 --> 00:14:39.299 protest? I mean I would say Jesus in one sense, if you look 204 00:14:39.299 --> 00:14:43.620 at his dealings with the Pharisees, he certainly protested their hypocrisy. He did. 205 00:14:43.899 --> 00:14:46.980 Yeah, and he certainly pointed out to the people, he even told 206 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:50.940 his disciples beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is his hypocrisy. 207 00:14:50.980 --> 00:14:56.690 Right, yeah, you putting up this body of beliefs and these hoops you 208 00:14:56.730 --> 00:15:01.409 got to jump through religiously, but not even keep into those those those requirements 209 00:15:01.450 --> 00:15:03.250 yourself. It was hypocrisy. Yeah, so I think in one sense, 210 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:09.720 certainly Jesus protested. He certainly protested sin. Of just in general. Yeah, 211 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:13.799 he did well. He hated sin, no doubt, absolutely sin. 212 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:18.679 It's what separate test from God. But was he marked by not testing? 213 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.269 I don't think so at all. I think the mark of Jesus Ministry. 214 00:15:22.350 --> 00:15:26.870 You know, when we look at the Gospels and we also look at the 215 00:15:26.950 --> 00:15:37.259 writings of the Apostles Paul and Peter John, we see Christ as in interventionist. 216 00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:41.580 Yeah, he intervened. You know, the Bible says that Jesus Christ 217 00:15:41.740 --> 00:15:46.740 came into this world to save centers. Paul says this and he says, 218 00:15:46.779 --> 00:15:48.500 of WHO I am the chief, he's the chief, was centers. Jesus 219 00:15:48.500 --> 00:15:54.649 Christ came to save sinners, he came to intervene, he came to go 220 00:15:54.889 --> 00:15:58.210 into the hedges and the highways and compel them to come in. And so 221 00:15:58.289 --> 00:16:04.159 it wasn't just when just broadcasting grievances. Certainly Jesus did that with Pharisees mainly. 222 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:07.720 Right. Yeah, he protested sin, like even with a woman called 223 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.039 an adultery. There's one point. You people think of Jesus was just nice 224 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.639 and warm and kind. He was very gracious of that woman, but he 225 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:18.279 didn't say go and send no more so one, since that was a protest 226 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.070 of her lifestyle. Yeah, but he intervened in that situation. Yeah, 227 00:16:22.190 --> 00:16:26.509 so I think as well know as sidewalk counselors, the the main mark of 228 00:16:27.470 --> 00:16:32.149 our our movement out there on the sidewalk and what we do out there on 229 00:16:32.190 --> 00:16:37.539 the sidewalk should be one of intervention. We're intervening. We're intervening primarily on 230 00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:42.580 behalf of that baby, to not protest but to plead, even with the 231 00:16:42.700 --> 00:16:48.289 mother, right to appeal to her right to intervene and to say that baby 232 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:52.250 right and the intervention get her out of the ditch, to exactly in the 233 00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:57.649 intervention may involve. In fact it has to involve the naming of the issue 234 00:16:59.210 --> 00:17:03.200 that is causing the wound. And so in a sense, that really is 235 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.000 well, there is a grievous sin, there's this sins that brought you here, 236 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:10.799 but there's this in your contemplating of just trying your baby, and and 237 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.480 that does need to be addressed. It needs to be named. But there 238 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:19.190 are solutions. In true intervention you don't just name a problem, but you 239 00:17:19.789 --> 00:17:23.029 have a solution to your problem. So one of those stories that I thought 240 00:17:23.150 --> 00:17:26.109 of, and it's maybe not the best illustration, but I think it does 241 00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:30.220 illustrate the point, is the woman at the well, right when John Chapter 242 00:17:30.460 --> 00:17:36.819 for right, right when Jesus confronts the woman at the well. And so 243 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:42.460 he he doesn't stand there again with a picket sign that says adultery is bad 244 00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:48.930 and and and line up his disciples with signs, yes, that they march 245 00:17:49.009 --> 00:17:53.009 around the wells. It does seem if you look at you protests when I 246 00:17:53.089 --> 00:17:56.210 think anybody would have been a file degree. That's a protest. But you 247 00:17:56.289 --> 00:18:00.559 see a lot of times little pithy statements and stuff like that. You wrote 248 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:04.759 one in the context of this story that made me laugh. It's like the 249 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:08.279 disciples didn't have on, didn't have a tshirt own or didn't have a sign 250 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.400 that said this. What's the statement you get? If you cheating, you 251 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.349 will be beaten. And you know, Marky, you for you will be 252 00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:19.950 beaten. Marching around the well and and in in this massive protest against and 253 00:18:21.150 --> 00:18:25.509 I mean the woman had had seven husbands, well five five. Jesus doesn't 254 00:18:25.509 --> 00:18:29.740 shy away from pointing this out. He does not, but he doesn't rest 255 00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:33.660 there. It's one line, I think he's got one line where he mentioned, 256 00:18:33.980 --> 00:18:37.619 you know, she's clearly in sin. He's he's making note of it. 257 00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:41.650 You are in sin. Yeah, she's coming there for what she perceives 258 00:18:41.329 --> 00:18:47.369 as her need. Your need is water. She's thirsty, right. Yeah, 259 00:18:47.410 --> 00:18:51.210 she needs to draw water from the well. But Jesus doesn't let her 260 00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:57.799 stay in a place of what she thinks she needs to do. He intervenes 261 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:04.200 and brings her to the point of recognizing there is a much more important yeah, 262 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.799 yeah, I mean he actually, if you read through that story, 263 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:15.269 he's taking this natural need, which is water, and he's showing her that 264 00:19:15.589 --> 00:19:19.589 really her need is living water, spiritual water, right, and you know, 265 00:19:19.710 --> 00:19:23.980 he goes right from talking about the water talking about her spiritual thirst that 266 00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:27.500 needs to be quenched. And only he says, if you knew who it 267 00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:30.099 was that speaks, you would ask him for living water and he would give 268 00:19:30.140 --> 00:19:33.220 you the water that you drink of and you will never thirst again. And 269 00:19:33.339 --> 00:19:37.890 she's clueless. She's saying, we'll get me some of that. Yeah, 270 00:19:37.930 --> 00:19:41.529 well, yeah, but if you see what he's doing there is he's really 271 00:19:41.569 --> 00:19:45.609 painting a picture of her spiritual need. Right, he's showing her you've been 272 00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:52.730 trying to satisfy your thirst with men, right, and with sexual relationships that 273 00:19:52.809 --> 00:19:56.279 dishonor the Lord and dishonor what you're called to be before the Lord. Yeah, 274 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.839 but the water that I give you a spiritual water. What you really 275 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.720 need to quench your thirst is me. Right. So he's not protesting, 276 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:10.589 he's proclaiming certain truths and he's intervening in her life in such a way where 277 00:20:10.670 --> 00:20:14.630 she's impacted. And she didn't just stay there at the whales. A matter 278 00:20:14.670 --> 00:20:18.269 of fact, she takes off back to the city and Samaria, yeah, 279 00:20:18.430 --> 00:20:22.740 and begins to proclaim this Christ throughout that this could this be the Messiah. 280 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.980 Yeah, and I think you said in this little ride up which will put 281 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:30.420 out on the sidewalks for life site, which is comparing and contrasting protest against 282 00:20:30.700 --> 00:20:36.490 sidewalk counseling, which I think is really good, and you talk about she's 283 00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:41.170 one of the first evangelists right in the new tests. Exactly, one of 284 00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:45.009 the her maybe the first moment evangelist. And I love what you said because 285 00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:48.450 the way you'd painted that pic, sure of what's happening at the well, 286 00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:52.759 it's very easy to make the connection about what we're doing in front of the 287 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:57.359 abortion center. The women colme expressing their need is get rid of that baby, 288 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:03.079 give it to that baby and and life will be okay again. And 289 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:08.589 our role as an interventionist is first to say, well, really, that's 290 00:21:08.670 --> 00:21:12.789 not what your need is and it's actually a sin. Yeah, what you're 291 00:21:14.029 --> 00:21:17.230 what you're contemplating doing, what you're Gontablit in doing, is not a solution. 292 00:21:17.390 --> 00:21:21.180 That's right, actually part of the problem and it's it's what led them 293 00:21:21.339 --> 00:21:25.460 to this place, this terrible places, is all of this other sin in 294 00:21:25.539 --> 00:21:29.380 the background, that that will just continue. And so the intervention is that 295 00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:36.049 that need for Christ, yeah, for an an any Gospel Focus Sidewalk counseling 296 00:21:36.210 --> 00:21:41.329 group wants to point these women to truly the only answer to abortion, which 297 00:21:41.369 --> 00:21:47.200 is to come to a saving understanding of what it means to truly submit your 298 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:51.119 life. Yeah, to Jesus Christ. Yeah. So I think in one 299 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:57.400 sense, when we're looking at protests, a protest is defined in the appeal 300 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:02.430 that's given to to an entity. You know, you're appealing to an entity 301 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:08.549 to to listen to your grievances or what right and with what we're doing in 302 00:22:08.670 --> 00:22:14.589 proclamation and intervention, in side will counseling is yeah, we're appealing to an 303 00:22:14.710 --> 00:22:18.980 entity, but it's to an individual and we're appealing to her heart. She 304 00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:22.940 you know, she doesn't have the power. A woman going into an abortion 305 00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:27.819 clinic does not have the power to end abortion nationally. Right, she can't 306 00:22:29.660 --> 00:22:33.650 make abortion go away and we're not appealing to her to do that. But 307 00:22:33.769 --> 00:22:37.009 what she can do is she can obey God and that one abortion that she's 308 00:22:37.009 --> 00:22:41.329 about to be a part of, well, she has the power to choose 309 00:22:41.849 --> 00:22:48.559 to stop that. Right. So we're feeling to an individual and we're trying 310 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:52.839 to show her the direction she's going is one of destruction. So we're not 311 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.680 just appealing to her for her baby, we're appealing to her for her sake 312 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:02.509 as well. That's right. And earlier you said we're not really trying to 313 00:23:02.710 --> 00:23:06.549 slam all protesters and honestly, as I was thinking, and I agree, 314 00:23:06.589 --> 00:23:08.710 I think that there is a place for for protests. And as I was 315 00:23:08.829 --> 00:23:15.019 thinking, well, is there a biblical example of protest? And you mentioned 316 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:19.339 that what Jesus says to the Pharisees and I think that would that would apply. 317 00:23:21.019 --> 00:23:23.500 But I was thinking of the book of Esther, Hmm. And there's 318 00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:29.130 really two protests, in my opinion, that that take place in there, 319 00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:30.970 that book, and I won't go through the whole story of Esther. It's 320 00:23:30.970 --> 00:23:36.529 a fantastic book. Everyone should read it. Yeah, but the first protest, 321 00:23:36.609 --> 00:23:40.769 I think, occurs with Queen Vashti. Yeah, Queen Barsti is married 322 00:23:40.849 --> 00:23:45.559 to King Ahasuerus, I believe. Sure, and yeah, it's and and 323 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:52.000 Queen Vashti is apparently very beautiful and and the king is having an orgy, 324 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:56.309 a drunken orgy, with all of his buddies, okay, and and calls 325 00:23:56.750 --> 00:24:02.390 for Queen Vashti to come and there's some indication that he wants her to come 326 00:24:03.109 --> 00:24:07.829 in only her veil, in other words nothing else, wearing nothing else for 327 00:24:07.589 --> 00:24:14.500 basically allude display. And Queen Vashti protest. Yeah, she does, just 328 00:24:14.779 --> 00:24:17.099 for you know, in the version that that I know, I know the 329 00:24:17.140 --> 00:24:19.740 veggie Tales version. Okay, the veggie Tales version is that he asked her 330 00:24:19.779 --> 00:24:25.490 to come and make her make him a sandwich and she she protests. So 331 00:24:25.650 --> 00:24:29.890 maybe just for kids, say we will, we'll go that version. She's 332 00:24:30.329 --> 00:24:34.410 but but protesting. Make It, she re uses she she protest what is 333 00:24:34.690 --> 00:24:41.440 clearly an unjust or my opinion and an unjust request by the king, and 334 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:45.680 she appeals to the Authority, who is the king. Uh Huh, no, 335 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:55.710 I don't test, I'm not going to make you a sandwich. And 336 00:24:55.990 --> 00:24:59.190 it was a successful protest. She, as far as I know, she 337 00:24:59.509 --> 00:25:03.390 was not killed, which surprises me. But the the king recognizes it as 338 00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:07.500 a protest, as do all of his court of Fishes, who say, 339 00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:11.180 Oh, this cannot stand. You can allow this kind of protest, or 340 00:25:11.619 --> 00:25:15.339 all husbands are going to be in danger of their wives not making them, 341 00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:21.490 not making them sand that would be terrible. Right. So it sets the 342 00:25:21.650 --> 00:25:26.210 stage for then esther, who's the heroine of the book, book of Vester, 343 00:25:26.690 --> 00:25:30.009 and Esther, through a series of events that I won't go into, 344 00:25:30.690 --> 00:25:37.799 replaces Queen Vashti. She becomes queen and a plot is uncovered by her uncle, 345 00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:44.880 Mordecai, that the evil man who hates the Jews, hey man is, 346 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:49.710 has has worked out this plot with the king to have the Jewish people 347 00:25:49.829 --> 00:25:56.430 exterminated on a certain day and the king has set the seal that says yeah, 348 00:25:56.430 --> 00:26:00.390 you can do this. Yeah, he doesn't know that Esther is Jewish 349 00:26:02.269 --> 00:26:07.900 and esther has kept that secret. But Mordecai says, esther, you got 350 00:26:08.019 --> 00:26:11.299 to go to the king. You got it, you got to tell him 351 00:26:11.940 --> 00:26:15.140 what's about to happen to your people, admit that, yeah, that you're 352 00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:18.849 Jewish and that your people are going to be exterminated through this evil plot. 353 00:26:19.329 --> 00:26:22.569 So basically, you're going to have give before the king, right, government 354 00:26:22.650 --> 00:26:29.569 entity, right, and protest this decision. And her her going before the 355 00:26:29.690 --> 00:26:33.440 entity was that grave personal danger because, sin by the law of that times, 356 00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:40.519 she could not go before the king without being called and right. Tells 357 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:44.400 Mordecai that. And and then ultimately she decide she will go, she will 358 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:48.630 make this protests and he allows her to make the protest and she does. 359 00:26:48.109 --> 00:26:52.150 She doesn't set out a solution, she doesn't have the solution. Yeah, 360 00:26:52.309 --> 00:26:57.509 she is protesting an unjust action before the one who is an authority, and 361 00:26:57.630 --> 00:27:03.420 ultimately he provides a solution and her people are safe. So again, the 362 00:27:03.819 --> 00:27:07.180 that protest was successful and saved the lives of, yeah, the Jews. 363 00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:11.099 Right. Yeah. So, so in that you know, there were there 364 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:15.490 was certainly intervention. Yeah, right, this this government entity, but not 365 00:27:15.650 --> 00:27:18.970 by her. Not, but the intervention was not by her. Yeah, 366 00:27:19.410 --> 00:27:22.769 so that's why, Authorio. Again, we're not discount protests, right, 367 00:27:22.849 --> 00:27:27.250 and the need for us to protest certain things that the government does or doesn't 368 00:27:27.250 --> 00:27:33.119 do. We need to do that and things can change. Protests can change 369 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.559 things. They have throughout the history of this country, throughout the history of 370 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:41.960 the world, and and so they're good, right, but that's just not 371 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:44.750 what we're doing on the Sidewak, right, and you know, it even 372 00:27:44.829 --> 00:27:51.910 has more special relevance right now during this coronavirus, thinks, because I don't 373 00:27:52.069 --> 00:27:56.950 believe that protesters are specifically exempt. I think people could argue that, but 374 00:27:57.269 --> 00:28:03.779 ministries providing intervention are, yeah, exempt in the stay home order, being 375 00:28:03.940 --> 00:28:07.619 in the stay at home orders with this coronavirus, and I think, therefore, 376 00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:14.329 the use of the word protester in and face it what are mostly liberal 377 00:28:14.849 --> 00:28:22.569 media publications is, I think it's purposeful. promesters aren't except. However, 378 00:28:22.849 --> 00:28:30.920 though, actually it seems that protests are exempt, because that's writing a line 379 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.160 with the First Amendment, right, and there have been actually our governor here, 380 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:37.240 the the legal counsel to our governor, has recently written a letter in 381 00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:44.430 response to some other legislators who were giving some grievances. Yeah, about the 382 00:28:45.269 --> 00:28:48.430 police department in Raleigh saying basically that protests aren't essential, and the governor, 383 00:28:48.670 --> 00:28:55.309 through his attorney, is respondings and well, you're right, protests can go 384 00:28:55.589 --> 00:29:00.299 on, but just needs to be social did so. Actually, now they're 385 00:29:00.299 --> 00:29:03.299 recognizing, because of the First Amendment, that protests are valid activities. The 386 00:29:03.380 --> 00:29:07.539 First Amendment and the Constitution don't just go out the door because of our stayathome 387 00:29:07.579 --> 00:29:11.089 order. Yeah, and thankfully that's again, I think, why some of 388 00:29:11.089 --> 00:29:15.650 these protests are important, so that people are pushing back against government overreaching all 389 00:29:15.769 --> 00:29:19.569 that. But again, it's not really relevant to what we're doing because we're 390 00:29:19.609 --> 00:29:25.559 intervening. We're doing all the the things that within the exceptions and all of 391 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:30.240 that. As far as offering tangible resources and support, real counseling services, 392 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:36.039 real resources to meet practical needs and all that stuff, we're doing that. 393 00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:40.829 Yeah. So, anyway, not the protesters are bad. Yeah, this 394 00:29:40.990 --> 00:29:42.549 is again it's not what we're doing on the sidewalk as I will counsel. 395 00:29:42.869 --> 00:29:48.549 Yeah, and ultimately, you know, kind of summarize sing a lot of 396 00:29:48.630 --> 00:29:55.099 these thoughts Jesus did not come to condemn the world, right, but to 397 00:29:55.339 --> 00:29:57.819 save the world. And and I think, and I could be wrong in 398 00:29:57.900 --> 00:30:03.460 this, but but my sense of protesting is that there's something we're condemning. 399 00:30:03.500 --> 00:30:07.650 Yeah, and in some manner we are condemning it as wrong and and needs 400 00:30:07.690 --> 00:30:15.490 to be changed. Yeah, but Jesus Perspective was definitely intervention, Salfasian, 401 00:30:15.970 --> 00:30:18.849 save the world. Absolutely, that's why he came. Ye, Romans, 402 00:30:18.890 --> 00:30:23.680 Chapter Five, verse eight comes to mind. God demonstrated his own love towards 403 00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:27.079 us and that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 404 00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:30.279 Yeah, so you have that word demonstration. All right, we think about 405 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.599 a protest as a demonstration. That's not what it's talking about. He demonstrates 406 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:40.509 his it's talking about an actual demonstration and actual, not just outward displayed intervention, 407 00:30:41.150 --> 00:30:45.150 or that God intervened to a loss and dying world, in that, 408 00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:48.150 while we were yet sinners, Christ came and he died, he laid his 409 00:30:48.309 --> 00:30:53.259 life down. Yeah, and you know that message, the message of the 410 00:30:53.339 --> 00:30:57.339 Gospel, is God to be for us who are out there on the sidewalk 411 00:30:57.660 --> 00:31:00.380 and doing ministry, those who are in pregnancy, sinners. I want to 412 00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:04.569 encourage those were in pregnancy centers who are doing the difficult ministry and staying open 413 00:31:06.009 --> 00:31:10.049 through this coronavirus thing and jumping through all the hoops and the guidelines and all 414 00:31:10.089 --> 00:31:15.529 of that stuff. Keep doing what you're doing. Keep also bringing the Gospel, 415 00:31:15.529 --> 00:31:18.490 because it's the only message that can really change a heart. When we're 416 00:31:18.490 --> 00:31:22.519 appealing to a mother, yeah, the Gospel is the only message it's really 417 00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:25.079 going to change your heart. You might appeal to her and she might choose 418 00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:27.759 life for, you know, a few days and then she could go back 419 00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:30.960 to the abortion clinical. She might choose life for that baby, get caught 420 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.029 on another situation and go back to the abortion clinical with the next child. 421 00:31:34.109 --> 00:31:37.509 That's right with Yep. So that's why we're not just protesting to her, 422 00:31:37.549 --> 00:31:41.470 we're not just protesting to the government. We're proclaiming the Gospel. That will 423 00:31:41.509 --> 00:31:45.430 change your heart, and the Gospel Will Change Society as it takes root in 424 00:31:45.470 --> 00:31:53.259 these government people in positions of power, these presidents and judges and legislators and 425 00:31:53.259 --> 00:31:56.660 all that. Once the Gospel takes root in a society, things change. 426 00:31:57.019 --> 00:32:00.809 Yeah, so all of this is all these things sort of work together. 427 00:32:01.329 --> 00:32:06.009 You know, the protesting. Yeah, appealing to government entities, yeah, 428 00:32:06.089 --> 00:32:12.529 okay, proclaiming individual intervention and those things work together ultimately to bring Lord to 429 00:32:12.529 --> 00:32:15.640 Jesus and to save lives. Right. So we just wanted to have this 430 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:22.400 podcast and to share some of the differences that we see and really to say 431 00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:27.440 hey, protesting, do it whatever, but proclaiming the truth on the sidewalk 432 00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.150 and being there a side well counters, that's what we're doing. That's we're 433 00:32:30.190 --> 00:32:32.950 going to keep doing, by by the grace of God. Amen. So, 434 00:32:34.069 --> 00:32:36.829 guys, we do want to encourage you. We're going to and the 435 00:32:36.910 --> 00:32:39.269 coming days, put this article out help you, guys, understand some of 436 00:32:39.349 --> 00:32:45.339 the differences between protesting and and being out there on the sidewalk as a sidewalk 437 00:32:45.380 --> 00:32:50.259 counselor to help encourage you, to help you maybe answer some other people's questions 438 00:32:50.259 --> 00:32:52.059 who are wondering why you're going out there. So we're going to put this 439 00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:57.339 out on our sidewalks for life site sidewalks and number four lifecom. So we 440 00:32:57.380 --> 00:33:00.009 encourage you to go there. We also encourage you to share our PODCASTS, 441 00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:01.890 go back and listen to some of the other episodes that we put out there, 442 00:33:02.450 --> 00:33:07.730 share on social media what you know what we're doing here on this podcast 443 00:33:07.410 --> 00:33:12.049 and reach out to us. D Parks at cities for lifecom is my email 444 00:33:12.089 --> 00:33:15.200 address v Cassi Org at cities for lifecom is hers. We'd love to hear 445 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:19.480 from you. Would love to hear some suggestions about other podcast episodes that we 446 00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:28.430 can do. But until next time, God bless me, ove for love, 447 00:33:31.150 --> 00:33:39.589 give me our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me my 448 00:33:39.950 --> 00:33:47.339 life. Nothing's too precious. And some met you