Why Sidewalk Outreach And Protesting Are Not The Same

WEBVTT100:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.519Yeah, Cuz because we're not,we do not consider our protest right.200:00:05.599 --> 00:00:09.269The idea that I'm a protest andI agree with you absolutely. I protest300:00:09.349 --> 00:00:15.630alongside you. I Am Yours,I am yours, I am yours.400:00:16.190 --> 00:00:19.469Welcome to the Gospel Center Pro LifePodcast, and this episode we're going to500:00:19.510 --> 00:00:23.940talk about some of the differences betweenprotesting and proclaiming the Gospel in front of600:00:23.940 --> 00:00:28.379an abortion clinic while softball counsel.Stay with us. I am yours.700:00:28.739 --> 00:00:42.490Send Me Lord, Send Me Lord. I felt show passish touch your use800:00:42.689 --> 00:00:50.359me love. Hey there, thisis Vicky and Daniel again in our gospel900:00:50.399 --> 00:00:55.679centered pro life podcast and, aswe all know, we're all going through1000:00:55.759 --> 00:01:02.320this terrible coronavirus pandemic, really struggling. In many ways. We've seen a1100:01:02.520 --> 00:01:07.989big uptick in abortions, sadly,during this time, but there's also been1200:01:07.030 --> 00:01:11.349a lot of press lately. Therehave been a lot of news reports,1300:01:11.150 --> 00:01:17.750mostly stemming from the arrest of someof the people that were in front of1400:01:17.829 --> 00:01:22.260our very abortion center. Yeah,I think we've. We've made national news.1500:01:22.340 --> 00:01:27.420We have made national news and invariablyin these news reports we are called1600:01:29.379 --> 00:01:33.769protest. Yes, so that's oneof the things. Now. It's actually1700:01:33.890 --> 00:01:36.969the thing we're going to talk aboutin this podcast. Yeah, because because1800:01:37.049 --> 00:01:42.290we're not, we do not considerprotest right, the idea that I'm a1900:01:42.370 --> 00:01:47.239protest and I agree with you absolutely. I protest alongside you, and so2000:01:47.439 --> 00:01:52.359we're going to talk about that becauseI think it it might seem like just2100:01:52.519 --> 00:01:56.879a minor point for the yeas listening. Big Deal, Big del Yeah,2200:01:56.920 --> 00:01:59.840you're a protester. We protest whatyou are. You know what you are.2300:02:00.079 --> 00:02:01.549Cares what you're called? Right,right, right, yeah, who2400:02:01.629 --> 00:02:06.590cares how you identify yourself? Buton the same on those same news reports,2500:02:06.790 --> 00:02:10.629look at what they called the socalledpro choice people, their advocates for2600:02:12.590 --> 00:02:17.340reprotesteras rights advocates. Right, yeah, which would you rather be? I2700:02:17.460 --> 00:02:21.860mean the advocate thing, you know, the bigger words and the more the2800:02:22.099 --> 00:02:28.180very postal message, very positive protestsand negative it seems like they're just against2900:02:28.379 --> 00:02:32.449things. They don't have any youknow, solutions. But an advocate and3000:02:32.770 --> 00:02:40.050advocate that's a positive, wonderful title. Yeah, why do we always get3100:02:40.050 --> 00:02:44.050slapped with the negative titles? Youdon't know. I think there's probably and3200:02:44.169 --> 00:02:46.120so that's that's one of the reasonswhy we're protesting. That's right. In3300:02:46.240 --> 00:02:52.919this podcast that we're not protesters.That's right. And so what we're particularly3400:02:53.039 --> 00:02:55.759talking about is what we cities forlife, what we do at the abortion3500:02:55.800 --> 00:03:01.590clinics and also what others across thenation are doing in front of the abortion3600:03:01.669 --> 00:03:07.469clinics. You know, I identifyas a sidewalk counselor can't? I identify3700:03:07.509 --> 00:03:10.870as what I right like. Iam not a protester. And the reason3800:03:10.909 --> 00:03:17.020why this matters is because of theconnotations that come with the term protests.3900:03:17.060 --> 00:03:21.180Yeah, I mean you see thebias right there in the use of those4000:03:21.219 --> 00:03:25.020words. I believe not only isthe bias evident, but if there wasn't4100:03:25.020 --> 00:03:29.569already a bias, well now thereis. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,4200:03:29.650 --> 00:03:31.770side hot counselors. They're not counselors. In fact, we were often made4300:03:31.849 --> 00:03:38.210fun of and being calling ourselves counselorswhere we're pro protesters. Yes, is4400:03:38.330 --> 00:03:44.919what the media says anti choice protestersto that's right. Get some yeah,4500:03:45.599 --> 00:03:49.360exactly. Yeah. So you know, guys, we're not just complaining here4600:03:49.400 --> 00:03:53.080on the podcast because we got awe got a bad rap with the media.4700:03:53.800 --> 00:03:58.069This matters, it does, thismatters biblically. It matters that.4800:03:59.189 --> 00:04:02.949And just right away we're going tosay we're not saying there's anything wrong with4900:04:03.110 --> 00:04:08.710protesting. Right there. Protesting isa necessary role or absolute testers. Sure,5000:04:08.949 --> 00:04:15.500but there is a massive difference inprotesting and what people understand protesting to5100:04:15.620 --> 00:04:20.620be. Yeah, and what we'redoing on the sidewalk right, as sidewalk5200:04:20.660 --> 00:04:24.610counselors, as a big difference.Yeah, and so we're going to talk5300:04:24.649 --> 00:04:28.730about some of those differences. Yeah. So maybe it always helps to define5400:04:29.089 --> 00:04:33.009our terms first. Think it does. So what is a what is a5500:04:33.129 --> 00:04:39.079protester? Well, in my mind, when someone talks about, you know,5600:04:39.120 --> 00:04:41.639a protester or you know, youget a word picture. I don't5700:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.319know if you do that. Yes, usual person. Do I hear a5800:04:44.399 --> 00:04:46.920word? There's this word picture thatcomes to my mind. And when I5900:04:46.959 --> 00:04:51.040think of protester or Picketer, right, I think of people. They're out6000:04:51.040 --> 00:04:56.069in front of a building, MMM, probably a government building most of the6100:04:56.189 --> 00:05:00.310time, right, and they're walkingback and forth with signs and they're saying6200:05:00.750 --> 00:05:02.550no more whatever, right, youknow, in our case, no more6300:05:02.629 --> 00:05:06.110abortion, no more abortion, walkingback and forth, right, they're chanting.6400:05:08.540 --> 00:05:12.459Primarily, I guess I think ofa protester, someone that's appealing to6500:05:13.139 --> 00:05:17.139a government entity or some entity ina position of power. Right Sri Forty,6600:05:17.339 --> 00:05:20.449some authority could be a business wewith. There were many protests,6700:05:20.569 --> 00:05:25.730protesters in the past that that protestwhat they feel are on just business.6800:05:26.009 --> 00:05:28.930Yeah, we will start us,certainly. Yeah, yeah, but mostly6900:05:28.930 --> 00:05:31.970I think of, I guess,in a governmental sense, and that's why7000:05:31.970 --> 00:05:35.720I say protests aren't bad. Ithink we can protest and we should protest7100:05:35.800 --> 00:05:41.439against things that the government is doingthat are not good. Yea, you7200:05:41.480 --> 00:05:43.519know, there are folks now,we were still in the midst of this7300:05:43.639 --> 00:05:48.519corona virus crisis, and there arepeople at capital buildings and states across the7400:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.069nation, and we're not going toget into whether or not they should be7500:05:51.110 --> 00:05:56.310doing that, whether they shouldn't,but they're protesting the stayathome orders and in7600:05:56.470 --> 00:06:01.310the I guess, abuse of powerthat they perceive their government is involved in.7700:06:01.550 --> 00:06:05.259And you know, yeah, wehave a constitution in the United States.7800:06:05.300 --> 00:06:09.100We have a first amendment for justthat reason. That's right. So7900:06:09.259 --> 00:06:13.540that's not a bad thing. Sothere's a grievance being aired or an injustice8000:06:13.579 --> 00:06:20.730or something that that they feel isnot right. That they are challenging and8100:06:21.050 --> 00:06:27.889generally when I picture protesters, Ipicture a group. I don't usually picture8200:06:27.970 --> 00:06:30.649just one or two. It's usuallya group and usually circling around, like8300:06:30.810 --> 00:06:35.680you said, chanting. Yeah,pick iting, in, in in a8400:06:35.839 --> 00:06:44.399group, gathering. So pro lifesidewalk counselors paid abortion. Yeah, we8500:06:44.560 --> 00:06:48.589do want abortion to end. Butare we protesting as we're standing in front8600:06:48.709 --> 00:06:58.670of the abortion center doing our prolife work? Are we protesting? Are8700:06:58.750 --> 00:07:03.180we doing something different? Well,I would think, I would hope,8800:07:03.620 --> 00:07:09.019at least of course, from myperspective, we're not protesting right or proclaiming,8900:07:09.139 --> 00:07:12.620but I would hope that if someonewould come out who's never been out9000:07:12.660 --> 00:07:15.129to the sidewalk and they would spenda couple of hours with us, that9100:07:15.250 --> 00:07:19.209they would see you're not, you'renot doing what I was thinking you're doing.9200:07:19.250 --> 00:07:24.170You're not here protesting. You're outhere offering hope and help to these9300:07:24.250 --> 00:07:27.209women going into the abort portion center. Yeah, and that's been the case.9400:07:27.329 --> 00:07:30.680You know, we have gotten onsocial media some folks that would say9500:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.120you should be out there protest,even, you know, pro life people,9600:07:33.199 --> 00:07:36.600people who would, maybe that's politicallyor whatever, aligned with us.9700:07:36.639 --> 00:07:41.959Yeah, are saying, and thisseason you shouldn't be out there protesting like9800:07:42.120 --> 00:07:44.870this is not the time for that. Okay. Well, I'll tell you9900:07:44.949 --> 00:07:46.750what. I challenge anybody that wouldsay that. And of course you have10000:07:46.990 --> 00:07:51.750the right to protest. This mypresence out there, okay, but I10100:07:51.910 --> 00:07:56.750challenge you to come and spend anhour on the sidewalk with us at the10200:07:56.790 --> 00:08:00.939abortion center here in Charlotte. Comeand see what we're doing and see if10300:08:00.980 --> 00:08:03.899you think what we're doing would bein the category of protests. And I10400:08:03.980 --> 00:08:05.899know, I know why they're sayingthat. I mean, look at the10500:08:05.939 --> 00:08:09.699movie unplanned, which which was,you know, in many ways. So10600:08:09.980 --> 00:08:11.889there was a lot I really likedabout that movie. Yeah, but the10700:08:13.009 --> 00:08:16.529picture that they showed of the peoplein front of the abortion center, in10800:08:16.649 --> 00:08:18.889front of that plan parenthood, therewere two groups and one of those groups10900:08:18.930 --> 00:08:22.089I probably would classify as protesters.Yeah, they were angry, they were11000:08:22.089 --> 00:08:26.850shaking their fists, they were holdingpicket signs, sure, with with angry11100:08:26.889 --> 00:08:30.959messages on it, and screaming,chanting a Yes, a group, and11200:08:31.040 --> 00:08:35.080screaming at at the women going in. And that's not what we do,11300:08:35.559 --> 00:08:39.759right, that's not not at allwhat we do. Now, I will11400:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.909say, you know, we're nottrying to get in the weeds of the11500:08:43.029 --> 00:08:48.350right and the wrong way to dothings, and I've certainly experienced people that11600:08:48.549 --> 00:08:54.029come out and it seems like they'remore out there to protest abortion than they11700:08:54.029 --> 00:08:56.740are to actually reach the individuals.And that's, I guess, kind of11800:08:56.779 --> 00:09:01.259the difference in my mind, isthat in a protest you're trying to appeal11900:09:01.460 --> 00:09:07.299to a government entity and entity ofpower. You're trying to you're trying to12000:09:07.620 --> 00:09:11.690broadcast your grievances, right. Yeah, yeah, is that sound? I12100:09:11.730 --> 00:09:15.129would agree with that. Yeah,in what we're doing a sidewalk counselors,12200:09:15.330 --> 00:09:18.529we're trying to appeal to the individualmothers that are going into the abortion clinic12300:09:18.889 --> 00:09:22.850that there is a better way,for the right there is help available to12400:09:22.889 --> 00:09:26.320meet their needs and there's a Godthat loves them and that loves their baby.12500:09:26.440 --> 00:09:30.399Yeah, and I think that agreat way to talk about that is12600:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.240to maybe discuss, first of all, what is our model? Look,12700:09:33.440 --> 00:09:39.269it is. What is everything thatwe do based upon Biblical yeah, and12800:09:39.350 --> 00:09:41.750we do have a biblical model,and least for what we do in front12900:09:41.789 --> 00:09:48.309of the abortion yeah, the modelof our ministry since the beginning is lute,13000:09:48.350 --> 00:09:50.750chapter ten in the parable of theGood Samaritan, right, and if13100:09:50.789 --> 00:09:56.940you look at that story, theGood Samaritan is coming along the road from13200:09:56.940 --> 00:10:01.539Jerusalem to Jericho and he sees thisman who is, the Bible says,13300:10:01.580 --> 00:10:03.779left half dead and I make itin the did right. And you know13400:10:03.860 --> 00:10:07.210what he does? He instantly whipsout a picket side. He does say,13500:10:07.330 --> 00:10:13.009walks back and found shall not robhe walks back and forth, robbers13600:10:13.090 --> 00:10:18.250should be punished and and calls allhis friends to start chanting about robbery is13700:10:18.490 --> 00:10:22.039and of course he starts a petitionand he appeals to the to the Roman13800:10:22.080 --> 00:10:26.759govern from it and take the Jewishgovernment. We should stop the man in13900:10:26.799 --> 00:10:28.799the ditch problem, I should dosomething about this problem. Meanwhile he's bleeding14000:10:28.879 --> 00:10:33.360to death, but we are goingto continue with this protel. Of course,14100:10:33.399 --> 00:10:35.470guess we're being a little funny here, and I'm not again, I'm14200:10:35.470 --> 00:10:39.830not making fun of we're not makingfun of appealing to the government and,14300:10:39.590 --> 00:10:43.029of course, the desire to endabortion, you know, and the man14400:10:43.190 --> 00:10:46.629in the ditch problem. Okay,so please don't be offended and think that14500:10:46.950 --> 00:10:50.620we're marginalizing that we're not. Yeah, but we are trying to paint a14600:10:50.700 --> 00:10:54.940picture of that's not at all whatthis the Good Samaritan did. He actually14700:10:56.019 --> 00:11:00.340went to the man in the ditch. The Bible says, he cleaned off14800:11:00.460 --> 00:11:03.860his wounds. Yeah, he putthe man on his own animal and his14900:11:03.980 --> 00:11:07.730donkey, took him to an end, provided for his needs, gave the15000:11:07.809 --> 00:11:11.769innkeeper money and said if he needsanything else, so here's enough money to15100:11:11.769 --> 00:11:13.889take care of his needs right now, but if he needs anything else,15200:11:13.169 --> 00:11:16.970put it on my tab and I'llpay it later. So the model is15300:11:16.169 --> 00:11:22.279actually going into the ditch and actuallydoing something with the man in the ditch.15400:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.279And are in our case, wesee that there are two people in15500:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.679the ditch. There's the mom andthe baby. Yeah, and we want15600:11:28.679 --> 00:11:33.149to go into that ditch, iethe abortion center, and we want to15700:11:33.230 --> 00:11:37.509try by using our voices and theother means that God has given us.15800:11:37.590 --> 00:11:41.309We literally can't barge in the doorsand go into the ditch and drag them15900:11:41.350 --> 00:11:45.230out, but by using our voicesand the other means God has given us16000:11:46.029 --> 00:11:48.179to get that mom and that babyout of the ditch and then the stuff16100:11:48.220 --> 00:11:52.860that she's there for, because weunderstand even the most prideful woman that goes16200:11:52.899 --> 00:11:56.820into that abortion clinic. You know, we had our podcast with Ebony,16300:11:56.139 --> 00:12:01.610who was very candid and very openabout just the selfishness. I mean she16400:12:01.690 --> 00:12:05.049used those words. I was selfish. It was about me that she went16500:12:05.129 --> 00:12:07.250to New York to have that lateterm abortion, but even in that she16600:12:07.409 --> 00:12:11.009still had things that were going on. She still had wounds that she was16700:12:11.169 --> 00:12:16.960dealing with and those wounds need tobe tended to by God's grace. They16800:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.399were Yep, and that's what we'redoing at the abortion clins we're trying to16900:12:20.519 --> 00:12:22.000tend to those wounds. Were tryingto show those moms that are in that17000:12:22.159 --> 00:12:26.000ditch that there is healing for theirwounds. Yeah, and of course,17100:12:26.080 --> 00:12:31.230for their baby. There's life andtheir baby has value, and so we're17200:12:31.230 --> 00:12:33.149appealing to them so they yeah,that's the model of our ministry and and17300:12:33.269 --> 00:12:37.669beyond that, with the different connectionsthat we talked about, often times we17400:12:37.830 --> 00:12:41.389try to plug him into the end, you know, take them to the17500:12:41.470 --> 00:12:46.340end keeper and provide for their needs, whether that means getting housing for them,17600:12:46.460 --> 00:12:50.700whether that means getting clothing, babyshower items for them, whatever it17700:12:50.820 --> 00:12:52.820means, we want to try tomeet those needs. Put them on our17800:12:52.820 --> 00:12:58.500own animal. That's sometimes that meansput them in your own car and taking17900:12:58.539 --> 00:13:01.490them back home or taking them toto a maternity home or something like that.18000:13:01.649 --> 00:13:05.529We've had those situations at some point. Vicky, we need for you18100:13:05.610 --> 00:13:11.330to share your story about a younglady that ultimately you are chased by the18200:13:11.409 --> 00:13:15.440police because because you got her awayfrom the abortion center and she was being18300:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.679pressured by a family member to havethe abortion right. Yeah, that's a18400:13:18.759 --> 00:13:20.080fun story. That is it.Will share that at some points. A18500:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.600good but that's that. Yeah,that's like the Good Samaritan, Robbie,18600:13:24.840 --> 00:13:26.909running, running on. He wasgoing as Fastas you know. He was18700:13:26.990 --> 00:13:31.029going fast. Just God worked itout. Gays think he didn't end up18800:13:31.029 --> 00:13:35.789in jail and good she's the baby'salive and well. Man's awesome story.18900:13:35.110 --> 00:13:37.990Let's not this. That's not wewon't get right trail on that. Right,19000:13:39.149 --> 00:13:41.340right. But again, that's thepicture, Luke, chapter ten,19100:13:41.460 --> 00:13:45.659the the parable of the Good Samaritan, is what we're doing. And again19200:13:45.740 --> 00:13:50.820I see in the Good Samaritan parable. He's not protesting. Yeah, he's19300:13:50.899 --> 00:13:54.259intervening the good, good word.That's the difference. I think that's a19400:13:54.460 --> 00:14:00.090really great word. Protest versus usemention word. That is a good one.19500:14:00.330 --> 00:14:03.570And and now Jesus is the onethat tells the story of the good19600:14:03.610 --> 00:14:07.929stared tenders, but Jesus himself examining. We are to be like Jesus,19700:14:09.210 --> 00:14:13.879right, yeah, His grace wewill be. Will be one day.19800:14:13.000 --> 00:14:18.039And and so it's I think itis always so helpful to examine. Well,19900:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.600what did Jesus do? Yeah,which Jesus a protester? Or was20000:14:22.679 --> 00:14:26.509he an interventionist? How Sad?Is that a good word? Yeah,20100:14:26.870 --> 00:14:30.950I guess. Yeah, so there'sthere's so many places that we we can20200:14:31.750 --> 00:14:35.789look for the answer. That's whatwould you say, is, did Jesus20300:14:35.909 --> 00:14:39.299protest? I mean I would sayJesus in one sense, if you look20400:14:39.299 --> 00:14:43.620at his dealings with the Pharisees,he certainly protested their hypocrisy. He did.20500:14:43.899 --> 00:14:46.980Yeah, and he certainly pointed outto the people, he even told20600:14:46.019 --> 00:14:50.940his disciples beware of the leaven ofthe Pharisees, which is his hypocrisy.20700:14:50.980 --> 00:14:56.690Right, yeah, you putting upthis body of beliefs and these hoops you20800:14:56.730 --> 00:15:01.409got to jump through religiously, butnot even keep into those those those requirements20900:15:01.450 --> 00:15:03.250yourself. It was hypocrisy. Yeah, so I think in one sense,21000:15:03.490 --> 00:15:09.720certainly Jesus protested. He certainly protestedsin. Of just in general. Yeah,21100:15:09.759 --> 00:15:13.799he did well. He hated sin, no doubt, absolutely sin.21200:15:13.840 --> 00:15:18.679It's what separate test from God.But was he marked by not testing?21300:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.269I don't think so at all.I think the mark of Jesus Ministry.21400:15:22.350 --> 00:15:26.870You know, when we look atthe Gospels and we also look at the21500:15:26.950 --> 00:15:37.259writings of the Apostles Paul and PeterJohn, we see Christ as in interventionist.21600:15:37.820 --> 00:15:41.580Yeah, he intervened. You know, the Bible says that Jesus Christ21700:15:41.740 --> 00:15:46.740came into this world to save centers. Paul says this and he says,21800:15:46.779 --> 00:15:48.500of WHO I am the chief,he's the chief, was centers. Jesus21900:15:48.500 --> 00:15:54.649Christ came to save sinners, hecame to intervene, he came to go22000:15:54.889 --> 00:15:58.210into the hedges and the highways andcompel them to come in. And so22100:15:58.289 --> 00:16:04.159it wasn't just when just broadcasting grievances. Certainly Jesus did that with Pharisees mainly.22200:16:04.200 --> 00:16:07.720Right. Yeah, he protested sin, like even with a woman called22300:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.039an adultery. There's one point.You people think of Jesus was just nice22400:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.639and warm and kind. He wasvery gracious of that woman, but he22500:16:14.679 --> 00:16:18.279didn't say go and send no moreso one, since that was a protest22600:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.070of her lifestyle. Yeah, buthe intervened in that situation. Yeah,22700:16:22.190 --> 00:16:26.509so I think as well know assidewalk counselors, the the main mark of22800:16:27.470 --> 00:16:32.149our our movement out there on thesidewalk and what we do out there on22900:16:32.190 --> 00:16:37.539the sidewalk should be one of intervention. We're intervening. We're intervening primarily on23000:16:37.659 --> 00:16:42.580behalf of that baby, to notprotest but to plead, even with the23100:16:42.700 --> 00:16:48.289mother, right to appeal to herright to intervene and to say that baby23200:16:48.330 --> 00:16:52.250right and the intervention get her outof the ditch, to exactly in the23300:16:52.330 --> 00:16:57.649intervention may involve. In fact ithas to involve the naming of the issue23400:16:59.210 --> 00:17:03.200that is causing the wound. Andso in a sense, that really is23500:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.000well, there is a grievous sin, there's this sins that brought you here,23600:17:07.039 --> 00:17:10.799but there's this in your contemplating ofjust trying your baby, and and23700:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.480that does need to be addressed.It needs to be named. But there23800:17:14.519 --> 00:17:19.190are solutions. In true intervention youdon't just name a problem, but you23900:17:19.789 --> 00:17:23.029have a solution to your problem.So one of those stories that I thought24000:17:23.150 --> 00:17:26.109of, and it's maybe not thebest illustration, but I think it does24100:17:26.190 --> 00:17:30.220illustrate the point, is the womanat the well, right when John Chapter24200:17:30.460 --> 00:17:36.819for right, right when Jesus confrontsthe woman at the well. And so24300:17:37.619 --> 00:17:42.460he he doesn't stand there again witha picket sign that says adultery is bad24400:17:42.700 --> 00:17:48.930and and and line up his discipleswith signs, yes, that they march24500:17:49.009 --> 00:17:53.009around the wells. It does seemif you look at you protests when I24600:17:53.089 --> 00:17:56.210think anybody would have been a filedegree. That's a protest. But you24700:17:56.289 --> 00:18:00.559see a lot of times little pithystatements and stuff like that. You wrote24800:18:00.680 --> 00:18:04.759one in the context of this storythat made me laugh. It's like the24900:18:04.839 --> 00:18:08.279disciples didn't have on, didn't havea tshirt own or didn't have a sign25000:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.400that said this. What's the statementyou get? If you cheating, you25100:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.349will be beaten. And you know, Marky, you for you will be25200:18:15.549 --> 00:18:19.950beaten. Marching around the well andand in in this massive protest against and25300:18:21.150 --> 00:18:25.509I mean the woman had had sevenhusbands, well five five. Jesus doesn't25400:18:25.509 --> 00:18:29.740shy away from pointing this out.He does not, but he doesn't rest25500:18:30.019 --> 00:18:33.660there. It's one line, Ithink he's got one line where he mentioned,25600:18:33.980 --> 00:18:37.619you know, she's clearly in sin. He's he's making note of it.25700:18:37.740 --> 00:18:41.650You are in sin. Yeah,she's coming there for what she perceives25800:18:41.329 --> 00:18:47.369as her need. Your need iswater. She's thirsty, right. Yeah,25900:18:47.410 --> 00:18:51.210she needs to draw water from thewell. But Jesus doesn't let her26000:18:52.130 --> 00:18:57.799stay in a place of what shethinks she needs to do. He intervenes26100:18:59.519 --> 00:19:04.200and brings her to the point ofrecognizing there is a much more important yeah,26200:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.799yeah, I mean he actually,if you read through that story,26300:19:07.880 --> 00:19:15.269he's taking this natural need, whichis water, and he's showing her that26400:19:15.589 --> 00:19:19.589really her need is living water,spiritual water, right, and you know,26500:19:19.710 --> 00:19:23.980he goes right from talking about thewater talking about her spiritual thirst that26600:19:25.140 --> 00:19:27.500needs to be quenched. And onlyhe says, if you knew who it26700:19:27.539 --> 00:19:30.099was that speaks, you would askhim for living water and he would give26800:19:30.140 --> 00:19:33.220you the water that you drink ofand you will never thirst again. And26900:19:33.339 --> 00:19:37.890she's clueless. She's saying, we'llget me some of that. Yeah,27000:19:37.930 --> 00:19:41.529well, yeah, but if yousee what he's doing there is he's really27100:19:41.569 --> 00:19:45.609painting a picture of her spiritual need. Right, he's showing her you've been27200:19:45.769 --> 00:19:52.730trying to satisfy your thirst with men, right, and with sexual relationships that27300:19:52.809 --> 00:19:56.279dishonor the Lord and dishonor what you'recalled to be before the Lord. Yeah,27400:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.839but the water that I give youa spiritual water. What you really27500:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.720need to quench your thirst is me. Right. So he's not protesting,27600:20:04.200 --> 00:20:10.589he's proclaiming certain truths and he's interveningin her life in such a way where27700:20:10.670 --> 00:20:14.630she's impacted. And she didn't juststay there at the whales. A matter27800:20:14.670 --> 00:20:18.269of fact, she takes off backto the city and Samaria, yeah,27900:20:18.430 --> 00:20:22.740and begins to proclaim this Christ throughoutthat this could this be the Messiah.28000:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.980Yeah, and I think you saidin this little ride up which will put28100:20:26.980 --> 00:20:30.420out on the sidewalks for life site, which is comparing and contrasting protest against28200:20:30.700 --> 00:20:36.490sidewalk counseling, which I think isreally good, and you talk about she's28300:20:37.170 --> 00:20:41.170one of the first evangelists right inthe new tests. Exactly, one of28400:20:41.210 --> 00:20:45.009the her maybe the first moment evangelist. And I love what you said because28500:20:45.250 --> 00:20:48.450the way you'd painted that pic,sure of what's happening at the well,28600:20:48.890 --> 00:20:52.759it's very easy to make the connectionabout what we're doing in front of the28700:20:52.799 --> 00:20:57.359abortion center. The women colme expressingtheir need is get rid of that baby,28800:20:57.680 --> 00:21:03.079give it to that baby and andlife will be okay again. And28900:21:03.519 --> 00:21:08.589our role as an interventionist is firstto say, well, really, that's29000:21:08.670 --> 00:21:12.789not what your need is and it'sactually a sin. Yeah, what you're29100:21:14.029 --> 00:21:17.230what you're contemplating doing, what you'reGontablit in doing, is not a solution.29200:21:17.390 --> 00:21:21.180That's right, actually part of theproblem and it's it's what led them29300:21:21.339 --> 00:21:25.460to this place, this terrible places, is all of this other sin in29400:21:25.539 --> 00:21:29.380the background, that that will justcontinue. And so the intervention is that29500:21:29.700 --> 00:21:36.049that need for Christ, yeah,for an an any Gospel Focus Sidewalk counseling29600:21:36.210 --> 00:21:41.329group wants to point these women totruly the only answer to abortion, which29700:21:41.369 --> 00:21:47.200is to come to a saving understandingof what it means to truly submit your29800:21:47.240 --> 00:21:51.119life. Yeah, to Jesus Christ. Yeah. So I think in one29900:21:51.240 --> 00:21:57.400sense, when we're looking at protests, a protest is defined in the appeal30000:21:57.599 --> 00:22:02.430that's given to to an entity.You know, you're appealing to an entity30100:22:03.069 --> 00:22:08.549to to listen to your grievances orwhat right and with what we're doing in30200:22:08.670 --> 00:22:14.589proclamation and intervention, in side willcounseling is yeah, we're appealing to an30300:22:14.710 --> 00:22:18.980entity, but it's to an individualand we're appealing to her heart. She30400:22:18.339 --> 00:22:22.940you know, she doesn't have thepower. A woman going into an abortion30500:22:22.059 --> 00:22:27.819clinic does not have the power toend abortion nationally. Right, she can't30600:22:29.660 --> 00:22:33.650make abortion go away and we're notappealing to her to do that. But30700:22:33.769 --> 00:22:37.009what she can do is she canobey God and that one abortion that she's30800:22:37.009 --> 00:22:41.329about to be a part of,well, she has the power to choose30900:22:41.849 --> 00:22:48.559to stop that. Right. Sowe're feeling to an individual and we're trying31000:22:48.599 --> 00:22:52.839to show her the direction she's goingis one of destruction. So we're not31100:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.680just appealing to her for her baby, we're appealing to her for her sake31200:22:56.720 --> 00:23:02.509as well. That's right. Andearlier you said we're not really trying to31300:23:02.710 --> 00:23:06.549slam all protesters and honestly, asI was thinking, and I agree,31400:23:06.589 --> 00:23:08.710I think that there is a placefor for protests. And as I was31500:23:08.829 --> 00:23:15.019thinking, well, is there abiblical example of protest? And you mentioned31600:23:15.140 --> 00:23:19.339that what Jesus says to the Phariseesand I think that would that would apply.31700:23:21.019 --> 00:23:23.500But I was thinking of the bookof Esther, Hmm. And there's31800:23:23.579 --> 00:23:29.130really two protests, in my opinion, that that take place in there,31900:23:29.329 --> 00:23:30.970that book, and I won't gothrough the whole story of Esther. It's32000:23:30.970 --> 00:23:36.529a fantastic book. Everyone should readit. Yeah, but the first protest,32100:23:36.609 --> 00:23:40.769I think, occurs with Queen Vashti. Yeah, Queen Barsti is married32200:23:40.849 --> 00:23:45.559to King Ahasuerus, I believe.Sure, and yeah, it's and and32300:23:45.720 --> 00:23:52.000Queen Vashti is apparently very beautiful andand the king is having an orgy,32400:23:52.160 --> 00:23:56.309a drunken orgy, with all ofhis buddies, okay, and and calls32500:23:56.750 --> 00:24:02.390for Queen Vashti to come and there'ssome indication that he wants her to come32600:24:03.109 --> 00:24:07.829in only her veil, in otherwords nothing else, wearing nothing else for32700:24:07.589 --> 00:24:14.500basically allude display. And Queen Vashtiprotest. Yeah, she does, just32800:24:14.779 --> 00:24:17.099for you know, in the versionthat that I know, I know the32900:24:17.140 --> 00:24:19.740veggie Tales version. Okay, theveggie Tales version is that he asked her33000:24:19.779 --> 00:24:25.490to come and make her make hima sandwich and she she protests. So33100:24:25.650 --> 00:24:29.890maybe just for kids, say wewill, we'll go that version. She's33200:24:30.329 --> 00:24:34.410but but protesting. Make It,she re uses she she protest what is33300:24:34.690 --> 00:24:41.440clearly an unjust or my opinion andan unjust request by the king, and33400:24:41.359 --> 00:24:45.680she appeals to the Authority, whois the king. Uh Huh, no,33500:24:47.119 --> 00:24:55.710I don't test, I'm not goingto make you a sandwich. And33600:24:55.990 --> 00:24:59.190it was a successful protest. She, as far as I know, she33700:24:59.509 --> 00:25:03.390was not killed, which surprises me. But the the king recognizes it as33800:25:03.470 --> 00:25:07.500a protest, as do all ofhis court of Fishes, who say,33900:25:07.900 --> 00:25:11.180Oh, this cannot stand. Youcan allow this kind of protest, or34000:25:11.619 --> 00:25:15.339all husbands are going to be indanger of their wives not making them,34100:25:17.460 --> 00:25:21.490not making them sand that would beterrible. Right. So it sets the34200:25:21.650 --> 00:25:26.210stage for then esther, who's theheroine of the book, book of Vester,34300:25:26.690 --> 00:25:30.009and Esther, through a series ofevents that I won't go into,34400:25:30.690 --> 00:25:37.799replaces Queen Vashti. She becomes queenand a plot is uncovered by her uncle,34500:25:37.039 --> 00:25:44.880Mordecai, that the evil man whohates the Jews, hey man is,34600:25:45.240 --> 00:25:49.710has has worked out this plot withthe king to have the Jewish people34700:25:49.829 --> 00:25:56.430exterminated on a certain day and theking has set the seal that says yeah,34800:25:56.430 --> 00:26:00.390you can do this. Yeah,he doesn't know that Esther is Jewish34900:26:02.269 --> 00:26:07.900and esther has kept that secret.But Mordecai says, esther, you got35000:26:08.019 --> 00:26:11.299to go to the king. Yougot it, you got to tell him35100:26:11.940 --> 00:26:15.140what's about to happen to your people, admit that, yeah, that you're35200:26:15.180 --> 00:26:18.849Jewish and that your people are goingto be exterminated through this evil plot.35300:26:19.329 --> 00:26:22.569So basically, you're going to havegive before the king, right, government35400:26:22.650 --> 00:26:29.569entity, right, and protest thisdecision. And her her going before the35500:26:29.690 --> 00:26:33.440entity was that grave personal danger because, sin by the law of that times,35600:26:34.480 --> 00:26:40.519she could not go before the kingwithout being called and right. Tells35700:26:40.559 --> 00:26:44.400Mordecai that. And and then ultimatelyshe decide she will go, she will35800:26:44.440 --> 00:26:48.630make this protests and he allows herto make the protest and she does.35900:26:48.109 --> 00:26:52.150She doesn't set out a solution,she doesn't have the solution. Yeah,36000:26:52.309 --> 00:26:57.509she is protesting an unjust action beforethe one who is an authority, and36100:26:57.630 --> 00:27:03.420ultimately he provides a solution and herpeople are safe. So again, the36200:27:03.819 --> 00:27:07.180that protest was successful and saved thelives of, yeah, the Jews.36300:27:07.220 --> 00:27:11.099Right. Yeah. So, soin that you know, there were there36400:27:11.220 --> 00:27:15.490was certainly intervention. Yeah, right, this this government entity, but not36500:27:15.650 --> 00:27:18.970by her. Not, but theintervention was not by her. Yeah,36600:27:19.410 --> 00:27:22.769so that's why, Authorio. Again, we're not discount protests, right,36700:27:22.849 --> 00:27:27.250and the need for us to protestcertain things that the government does or doesn't36800:27:27.250 --> 00:27:33.119do. We need to do thatand things can change. Protests can change36900:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.559things. They have throughout the historyof this country, throughout the history of37000:27:36.960 --> 00:27:41.960the world, and and so they'regood, right, but that's just not37100:27:41.079 --> 00:27:44.750what we're doing on the Sidewak,right, and you know, it even37200:27:44.829 --> 00:27:51.910has more special relevance right now duringthis coronavirus, thinks, because I don't37300:27:52.069 --> 00:27:56.950believe that protesters are specifically exempt.I think people could argue that, but37400:27:57.269 --> 00:28:03.779ministries providing intervention are, yeah,exempt in the stay home order, being37500:28:03.940 --> 00:28:07.619in the stay at home orders withthis coronavirus, and I think, therefore,37600:28:08.220 --> 00:28:14.329the use of the word protester inand face it what are mostly liberal37700:28:14.849 --> 00:28:22.569media publications is, I think it'spurposeful. promesters aren't except. However,37800:28:22.849 --> 00:28:30.920though, actually it seems that protestsare exempt, because that's writing a line37900:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.160with the First Amendment, right,and there have been actually our governor here,38000:28:33.359 --> 00:28:37.240the the legal counsel to our governor, has recently written a letter in38100:28:37.319 --> 00:28:44.430response to some other legislators who weregiving some grievances. Yeah, about the38200:28:45.269 --> 00:28:48.430police department in Raleigh saying basically thatprotests aren't essential, and the governor,38300:28:48.670 --> 00:28:55.309through his attorney, is respondings andwell, you're right, protests can go38400:28:55.589 --> 00:29:00.299on, but just needs to besocial did so. Actually, now they're38500:29:00.299 --> 00:29:03.299recognizing, because of the First Amendment, that protests are valid activities. The38600:29:03.380 --> 00:29:07.539First Amendment and the Constitution don't justgo out the door because of our stayathome38700:29:07.579 --> 00:29:11.089order. Yeah, and thankfully that'sagain, I think, why some of38800:29:11.089 --> 00:29:15.650these protests are important, so thatpeople are pushing back against government overreaching all38900:29:15.769 --> 00:29:19.569that. But again, it's notreally relevant to what we're doing because we're39000:29:19.609 --> 00:29:25.559intervening. We're doing all the thethings that within the exceptions and all of39100:29:25.680 --> 00:29:30.240that. As far as offering tangibleresources and support, real counseling services,39200:29:30.839 --> 00:29:36.039real resources to meet practical needs andall that stuff, we're doing that.39300:29:36.519 --> 00:29:40.829Yeah. So, anyway, notthe protesters are bad. Yeah, this39400:29:40.990 --> 00:29:42.549is again it's not what we're doingon the sidewalk as I will counsel.39500:29:42.869 --> 00:29:48.549Yeah, and ultimately, you know, kind of summarize sing a lot of39600:29:48.630 --> 00:29:55.099these thoughts Jesus did not come tocondemn the world, right, but to39700:29:55.339 --> 00:29:57.819save the world. And and Ithink, and I could be wrong in39800:29:57.900 --> 00:30:03.460this, but but my sense ofprotesting is that there's something we're condemning.39900:30:03.500 --> 00:30:07.650Yeah, and in some manner weare condemning it as wrong and and needs40000:30:07.690 --> 00:30:15.490to be changed. Yeah, butJesus Perspective was definitely intervention, Salfasian,40100:30:15.970 --> 00:30:18.849save the world. Absolutely, that'swhy he came. Ye, Romans,40200:30:18.890 --> 00:30:23.680Chapter Five, verse eight comes tomind. God demonstrated his own love towards40300:30:23.680 --> 00:30:27.079us and that, while we wereyet sinners, Christ died for us.40400:30:27.079 --> 00:30:30.279Yeah, so you have that worddemonstration. All right, we think about40500:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.599a protest as a demonstration. That'snot what it's talking about. He demonstrates40600:30:33.720 --> 00:30:40.509his it's talking about an actual demonstrationand actual, not just outward displayed intervention,40700:30:41.150 --> 00:30:45.150or that God intervened to a lossand dying world, in that,40800:30:45.430 --> 00:30:48.150while we were yet sinners, Christcame and he died, he laid his40900:30:48.309 --> 00:30:53.259life down. Yeah, and youknow that message, the message of the41000:30:53.339 --> 00:30:57.339Gospel, is God to be forus who are out there on the sidewalk41100:30:57.660 --> 00:31:00.380and doing ministry, those who arein pregnancy, sinners. I want to41200:31:00.380 --> 00:31:04.569encourage those were in pregnancy centers whoare doing the difficult ministry and staying open41300:31:06.009 --> 00:31:10.049through this coronavirus thing and jumping throughall the hoops and the guidelines and all41400:31:10.089 --> 00:31:15.529of that stuff. Keep doing whatyou're doing. Keep also bringing the Gospel,41500:31:15.529 --> 00:31:18.490because it's the only message that canreally change a heart. When we're41600:31:18.490 --> 00:31:22.519appealing to a mother, yeah,the Gospel is the only message it's really41700:31:22.599 --> 00:31:25.079going to change your heart. Youmight appeal to her and she might choose41800:31:25.160 --> 00:31:27.759life for, you know, afew days and then she could go back41900:31:27.759 --> 00:31:30.960to the abortion clinical. She mightchoose life for that baby, get caught42000:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.029on another situation and go back tothe abortion clinical with the next child.42100:31:34.109 --> 00:31:37.509That's right with Yep. So that'swhy we're not just protesting to her,42200:31:37.549 --> 00:31:41.470we're not just protesting to the government. We're proclaiming the Gospel. That will42300:31:41.509 --> 00:31:45.430change your heart, and the GospelWill Change Society as it takes root in42400:31:45.470 --> 00:31:53.259these government people in positions of power, these presidents and judges and legislators and42500:31:53.259 --> 00:31:56.660all that. Once the Gospel takesroot in a society, things change.42600:31:57.019 --> 00:32:00.809Yeah, so all of this isall these things sort of work together.42700:32:01.329 --> 00:32:06.009You know, the protesting. Yeah, appealing to government entities, yeah,42800:32:06.089 --> 00:32:12.529okay, proclaiming individual intervention and thosethings work together ultimately to bring Lord to42900:32:12.529 --> 00:32:15.640Jesus and to save lives. Right. So we just wanted to have this43000:32:15.759 --> 00:32:22.400podcast and to share some of thedifferences that we see and really to say43100:32:22.440 --> 00:32:27.440hey, protesting, do it whatever, but proclaiming the truth on the sidewalk43200:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.150and being there a side well counters, that's what we're doing. That's we're43300:32:30.190 --> 00:32:32.950going to keep doing, by bythe grace of God. Amen. So,43400:32:34.069 --> 00:32:36.829guys, we do want to encourageyou. We're going to and the43500:32:36.910 --> 00:32:39.269coming days, put this article outhelp you, guys, understand some of43600:32:39.349 --> 00:32:45.339the differences between protesting and and beingout there on the sidewalk as a sidewalk43700:32:45.380 --> 00:32:50.259counselor to help encourage you, tohelp you maybe answer some other people's questions43800:32:50.259 --> 00:32:52.059who are wondering why you're going outthere. So we're going to put this43900:32:52.140 --> 00:32:57.339out on our sidewalks for life sitesidewalks and number four lifecom. So we44000:32:57.380 --> 00:33:00.009encourage you to go there. Wealso encourage you to share our PODCASTS,44100:33:00.170 --> 00:33:01.890go back and listen to some ofthe other episodes that we put out there,44200:33:02.450 --> 00:33:07.730share on social media what you knowwhat we're doing here on this podcast44300:33:07.410 --> 00:33:12.049and reach out to us. DParks at cities for lifecom is my email44400:33:12.089 --> 00:33:15.200address v Cassi Org at cities forlifecom is hers. We'd love to hear44500:33:15.240 --> 00:33:19.480from you. Would love to hearsome suggestions about other podcast episodes that we44600:33:19.519 --> 00:33:28.430can do. But until next time, God bless me, ove for love,44700:33:31.150 --> 00:33:39.589give me our loft for gratitude.I know it will cost me my44800:33:39.950 --> 00:33:47.339life. Nothing's too precious. Andsome met you