Jan. 8, 2020

Why is Talking About Abortion Taboo in the Church?

Why is Talking About Abortion Taboo in the Church?

Abortion is the number one moral issue of our day but many pastors steer clear of addressing the issue of abortion with their congregation. Why are so many pastors afraid to talk about abortion? Join us as we tackle this subject Biblically.


Abortion is the number one moral issue of our day but many pastors steer clear of addressing the issue of abortion with their congregation. Why are so many pastors afraid to talk about abortion? Join us as we tackle this subject Biblically.

https://www.respectlifekcsj.org/uploads/2/1/2/7/21274880/pm_the_most_common_reasons_pastors_give_for_not_preaching_about_abortion.pdf

https://www.focusonthefamily.com/pro-life/five-fears-that-keep-pastors-from-preaching-about-abortion/

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me, 2 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:10.310 Lord, I am your. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. 3 00:00:10.550 --> 00:00:13.669 This episode we're going to talk about why it's taboo to talk about abortion 4 00:00:13.789 --> 00:00:17.390 in the church and some of the reasons that pastors give to not talk about 5 00:00:17.390 --> 00:00:28.260 it to their congregations. Stick with us. I felt show passish touch your 6 00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:35.179 welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. We're going to talk about abortion, 7 00:00:35.619 --> 00:00:39.890 like we can do. PODCAST is about that, pro life issues in 8 00:00:39.929 --> 00:00:42.810 light of the Gospel. But one of the things we're going to talk about, 9 00:00:43.009 --> 00:00:47.009 and I think hopefully this will be helpful for some pastors and for people 10 00:00:47.090 --> 00:00:51.119 in congregations where your pastor maybe is not addressing the issue of abortion, or 11 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:53.679 maybe he's not addressing the issue of abortion as much as he ought to, 12 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:59.240 and we're going to talk about why the issue of abortion is taboo in the 13 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:04.310 church, for some churches and even in Christian circles, and why pastors shy 14 00:01:04.349 --> 00:01:08.349 away from talking about the issue of abortion. You've got an article there that 15 00:01:08.510 --> 00:01:11.590 you that you got five reasons. Why? What is it? Was it 16 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:14.750 entire right? Well, I have a couple of articles. This one is 17 00:01:14.870 --> 00:01:19.420 called the most common reasons pastors give for not preaching about abortion. That's the 18 00:01:19.579 --> 00:01:21.819 title in it. It was written by a pastor and I'm sorry, I 19 00:01:21.900 --> 00:01:25.540 don't have its name. We can find it and post that with with our 20 00:01:26.299 --> 00:01:32.260 with our podcast. Okay, but at list like twenty reasons, common reasons 21 00:01:32.340 --> 00:01:37.090 why pastors don't talk about abortion, and and so maybe we could just go 22 00:01:37.250 --> 00:01:38.209 through them. Yeah, some of the B's. The other one you have 23 00:01:38.329 --> 00:01:41.969 from focus on the family. The one from focus on the family is the 24 00:01:42.170 --> 00:01:47.680 five fears that keep pastors from preaching about abortion. Okay, and then it's 25 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:49.000 like a lot of these. I was reading through those, both of those 26 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:53.959 articles. They had a lot of similarities. Right, right, why don't 27 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:56.680 we start with that first, with the focus on the family, one of 28 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:00.400 the five fears, okay, that keep pastors and you know, of course 29 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:04.790 we want to look at these things in light of the Scripture and lighted with 30 00:02:04.829 --> 00:02:08.310 the Bible says and the but the biblical command right to speak for those that 31 00:02:08.389 --> 00:02:13.229 can speak for themselves and to love our neighbor as ourselves. And of course 32 00:02:13.310 --> 00:02:15.620 we're going to come from a perspective of when we think about prolife ministry, 33 00:02:15.620 --> 00:02:21.900 we're thinking sidewall counseling. But there's certainly a broad application. And you know, 34 00:02:22.020 --> 00:02:25.340 pastors, and I believe every every church that is a church, those 35 00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:29.180 who believe that word of God and those who believe Jesus is the way of 36 00:02:29.219 --> 00:02:32.009 salvation and the God has try you, and there's just sort of the fundamentals 37 00:02:34.289 --> 00:02:38.849 should be talking about the issue of abortion, for sure. And but fact 38 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:42.569 is they're not. You know. Yeah, and so they're not an end. 39 00:02:42.650 --> 00:02:47.159 My experience in talking with pastors is that they may be willing to support 40 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:53.479 something like a pregnancy resource center, yeah, as a church, but less 41 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.789 willing to support art people out on the front lines in a sidewalk. Yeah, 42 00:02:58.870 --> 00:03:05.909 ministry. And my personal conviction is that churches should be out on the 43 00:03:05.990 --> 00:03:09.629 sidewalk and should be supporting what's happening out on the sidewalk as well. Yes, 44 00:03:09.750 --> 00:03:15.139 the pregnancy resource yeah, absolutely so. So, anyway, in the 45 00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:17.780 in the top five focus on the family. I presumed it some sort of 46 00:03:17.860 --> 00:03:23.379 research and found the the top five reasons given for why pastors are not talking 47 00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:29.009 about abortion. So the first one is, and I hear this all the 48 00:03:29.090 --> 00:03:35.530 time, my congregation will think I'm being political, congregational think I'm being political. 49 00:03:35.650 --> 00:03:38.889 Isis like, you know, one of the things I've said two folks 50 00:03:39.090 --> 00:03:43.280 when they come out on the sidewalk and they wonder where the church is and 51 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:47.360 why they're pastor isn't addressing the issue of abortion, is that the church has 52 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:53.879 taken the bait of the devil in some ways in that we've allowed abortion to 53 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:58.349 be crafted and to be put forth as a political issue, and the fact 54 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:01.550 is it's not a political issue, it's a gospel issue. Now there's some 55 00:04:01.629 --> 00:04:04.830 politics involved and you know, people think about especially, you know, we're 56 00:04:04.870 --> 00:04:09.629 dealing with the black churches. You wonder why aren't the Black Churches out here? 57 00:04:09.669 --> 00:04:12.780 I say, I tell people, I said because this issue is viewed 58 00:04:12.819 --> 00:04:15.379 as a Democrat Republican issue. And you know it's face it. Most black 59 00:04:15.459 --> 00:04:19.699 churches, the majority of the people there are Democrats, you know, and 60 00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:25.490 they would actually more aligned with, you know, our beliefs as far as 61 00:04:25.529 --> 00:04:28.410 the Bible be in the word of God, and you know, homosexuality being 62 00:04:28.410 --> 00:04:32.209 seeing abortion being wrong. And yet they've they've allowed in the church at Laura's 63 00:04:32.290 --> 00:04:36.329 has allowed this issue to be deemed as a political issue and it's simply not 64 00:04:36.490 --> 00:04:40.319 a political issue. Yeah, you got to wonder about that, because at 65 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:46.160 the root of the pro life issue is the value, worth dignity of human 66 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:54.149 life and that that was established in the beginning by God. Yeah, when 67 00:04:54.350 --> 00:04:58.870 he says that we are created in his image. Yeah, and our value 68 00:04:58.990 --> 00:05:06.339 is derived from that. And all rights proceed from the right to life. 69 00:05:06.540 --> 00:05:10.980 You can't have any other right if you don't have the right to life. 70 00:05:11.620 --> 00:05:16.500 So why that is perceived as a political issue, you know? Well, 71 00:05:16.579 --> 00:05:23.370 there's a great division in our country. yeahlitically because of Rov Wade. Yeah, 72 00:05:23.449 --> 00:05:28.529 and the aftermath of Rope Wade. And Pastors, I think, are 73 00:05:28.649 --> 00:05:33.689 looking at at least what what this article seem to suggest was that they are 74 00:05:33.810 --> 00:05:41.319 looking only at the political outworking of of the abortion issue, but not at 75 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:46.800 the root of the abortion issue. To great detriment. They're not talking about 76 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:49.470 it. There is this warms the heart of God, for I agree pastors. 77 00:05:50.310 --> 00:05:56.350 I was a pastor one time for about almost ten years and I know 78 00:05:56.470 --> 00:06:00.110 the heart of a pastor. He wants to shepherd, he wants to protect 79 00:06:00.310 --> 00:06:04.620 those who got has put under his care, but part of protecting is addressing 80 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:10.459 these issues that are destructive and you know, it can kind of I don't 81 00:06:10.459 --> 00:06:14.060 know, with that sensitivity of your heart, you can neglect to speak the 82 00:06:14.180 --> 00:06:19.610 truth and and to be you to confront evils because you don't want to drive 83 00:06:19.689 --> 00:06:24.370 people away. But the fact is we have to honor of the Lord first 84 00:06:24.449 --> 00:06:27.329 and we have to you know, if you know, using the analogy of 85 00:06:27.329 --> 00:06:30.129 a shepherd and she in a sheep, you know, if a sheep is 86 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:34.800 as a has a splinter in its Hoo, for Paul, I don't where 87 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:40.680 it's been any they pause every maybe whatever. Either way, if they have 88 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:44.360 some kind of issue going on there, the shepherd needs to address it, 89 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:46.879 even though it's going to hurt. You know, bandaging up a wound, 90 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.670 putting a little bit of antiseptic on a wound one of your sheep is kind 91 00:06:49.670 --> 00:06:53.709 of hurt, could drive them away, right. It could run from you. 92 00:06:53.949 --> 00:06:56.230 Yeah, but you know it's the best thing and right. So we're 93 00:06:56.269 --> 00:06:58.829 thing you could do is ignore that. Yeah, and we know that with 94 00:06:59.029 --> 00:07:01.699 physical issues. Well, why don't we know that with emotional and spiritual is? 95 00:07:01.819 --> 00:07:05.500 Yes, the worst thing we can do is pretend the issue doesn't exist 96 00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:10.579 and never speak upon it. Yeah, and as far as this political thing 97 00:07:10.740 --> 00:07:15.050 is concerned, as pastors, we can't let the world dictate to us what 98 00:07:15.569 --> 00:07:19.290 is a an issue that we don't talk about and what's an issue that we 99 00:07:19.329 --> 00:07:23.569 do talk about. This whole idea, and I think we'll maybe talk about 100 00:07:23.569 --> 00:07:27.449 that later on a little bit, the separation between politics and religion. You 101 00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:30.240 know, if we're believers in Jesus, it's not that we're you know, 102 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:34.680 if our if the chief defining mark of my life is that I'm a Republican, 103 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:39.199 that's a problem. It is. I'm a believer in Jesus, right, 104 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:42.680 but I don't just shy away from things that Republicans say and Republicans do 105 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:45.949 just so the world doesn't view me as a Republican first. No, I 106 00:07:46.110 --> 00:07:48.509 just speak the truth and if it happens a line up with the Republicans, 107 00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:53.310 say, well, what the Democrats say or libertarian say that it's the truth, 108 00:07:53.470 --> 00:07:58.110 it's according to God's word. So, you know, as far as 109 00:07:58.149 --> 00:08:01.019 we're concerned, like being out on the sidewalk at the abortion clinic, it's 110 00:08:01.060 --> 00:08:05.899 not like we have a trump flag that were waving out there or we have, 111 00:08:05.139 --> 00:08:07.860 you know, people come and sign up, you know, save your 112 00:08:07.899 --> 00:08:13.290 baby and come up and sign up to vote Republican. It's like the furthest 113 00:08:13.290 --> 00:08:16.850 thing from what our motivation is. It's about a love for God. And 114 00:08:18.290 --> 00:08:22.769 I mean, listen, are we deceived enough to think the Republican Party is 115 00:08:22.810 --> 00:08:26.399 the savior of the world? In no way. Republican Party is just as 116 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:31.519 culbable, maybe even more, in this abortion Holocaust. Then then the Democrat 117 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:35.879 Party is in some ways, you know. Yeah, and so, yeah, 118 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:37.960 this is just not a political thing. In pastors, you can't let 119 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:43.389 this be from the world telling you how to view this issue. You can't 120 00:08:43.429 --> 00:08:46.629 let them define this issue for you. This is a gospel issue. We're 121 00:08:46.710 --> 00:08:52.590 talking about the murder if innocent children in our country and made in the image 122 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:58.620 of a holy God. And and Satan knows he he lost when Jesus died 123 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:03.700 on the Cross and rose from the dead. So he couldn't defeat Jesus, 124 00:09:05.419 --> 00:09:11.330 but he attacks what he is able to attack, which are the image bearers, 125 00:09:11.370 --> 00:09:15.529 yeah, of God. And and that is, I think again, 126 00:09:15.929 --> 00:09:22.090 the root of abortion. Destroy the idea that society should be protecting those little 127 00:09:24.129 --> 00:09:28.720 vulnerable image bearers of God, the unborn child. Yeah, so all right. 128 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:31.240 Should we go onto the second one? Yeah, second, top one 129 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:37.200 is I do not want to be pegged as a crazy right wing conservative. 130 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.070 Yeah, so that sort of relates to the first one. Does again, 131 00:09:41.110 --> 00:09:48.389 it's the political that that abortion is a political issue as opposed to a moral 132 00:09:48.429 --> 00:09:52.460 or Gospel yes, you but, and you know, the thing is, 133 00:09:52.620 --> 00:09:58.179 the Bible says the fear of Man Brings a snare. When our life in 134 00:09:58.299 --> 00:10:01.860 the the motivation behind the things that we do, in the directions that we 135 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:05.820 go in, whether it be as pastors and directing our church to go in 136 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:11.490 this direction of that direction or whatever, the call of God on our lives, 137 00:10:11.009 --> 00:10:13.009 we can and always have in the back of our mind. Well, 138 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:16.250 what's the world going to think? You know, certainly the Bible says let 139 00:10:16.289 --> 00:10:20.570 your light so shine before men. We should be a light and we want 140 00:10:20.610 --> 00:10:24.240 to make sure that we're, as best we can, viewed as blameless and 141 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.000 and and the we're not, you know, caught up in scandal and all 142 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.559 that sort of thing. But when we're doing what God has called us to 143 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:35.830 do, the world is going to think that it's crazy. They're going to 144 00:10:35.870 --> 00:10:39.389 peggy with whatever whatever term they can listen. You can't please the world. 145 00:10:39.509 --> 00:10:43.470 You can't please people who don't know God with the things of God. They're 146 00:10:43.509 --> 00:10:48.029 just not going to understand why you're doing why are you protecting these zygoats? 147 00:10:48.149 --> 00:10:52.220 Why do you why do you stand so strongly against the the you know, 148 00:10:52.659 --> 00:10:58.059 destruction of Zygoats and embryos whatever. They just don't understand, because they don't 149 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:01.620 understand the value people that are lost. They don't understand the value of human 150 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:05.129 life. Because when it says here, I don't want to be pegged as 151 00:11:05.169 --> 00:11:09.570 a crazy white ring white right right wing, that's a little tongue twisted. 152 00:11:11.169 --> 00:11:15.529 Right conservative. By whom? Right? So the implication is by the world 153 00:11:15.769 --> 00:11:18.080 right, by those who are from the outside looking in. And all you 154 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.399 have to do is just say, well, I'm not that, yeah, 155 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:24.000 you know, and show that you're not that through your actions. Because here's 156 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:30.240 the thing. If if you say that abortion is wrong and the world wonders, 157 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:31.559 okay, well, why you think it's wrong? What's because it destroys 158 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.830 innocent life, and then you just leave it there and you don't do anything 159 00:11:35.870 --> 00:11:39.830 about it and you don't address the issue from the pulpit, then the world 160 00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:43.629 thinks you're hypocrite. All, you think abortion is wrong, but you never 161 00:11:43.750 --> 00:11:46.789 talked about it, you don't do anything about it. So you can't please 162 00:11:46.870 --> 00:11:48.259 them. That way and you can't please them this way. All you talk 163 00:11:48.299 --> 00:11:50.580 about is abortion. All. If you think abortion is wrong, why do 164 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:54.379 you never talk about so you know, may as well try to please God. 165 00:11:54.460 --> 00:11:56.419 Can't please everybody, because we'll try to please the Lord. And also 166 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:05.250 the the way the media presents sidewalk counselors. Is what I'm thinking. But 167 00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:09.889 but many pro life people, but yeah, especially sidewalk counselors, people out 168 00:12:09.929 --> 00:12:16.960 on the sidewalk actively working to promote life and and discourage abortion, their caricatured 169 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.320 in in movies, even in some pro life weird kidctured. We are. 170 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:30.950 We are, and and that is sometimes the only view that a pastor or 171 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:37.990 a congregation have because they've never been out to the sidewalk and seeing an effective 172 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:43.379 sidewalk ministry like ours. Yeah, in action, was plugging in in action, 173 00:12:43.580 --> 00:12:48.460 and so they they don't know that. The things that they see of 174 00:12:48.700 --> 00:12:52.460 angry people, you know, waving flags. Yeah, yeah, I think 175 00:12:52.539 --> 00:12:54.419 of it is mentioned the because we talked about before this podcast, in the 176 00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:58.769 unplanned movie, the Abby Johnson Movie, yeah, which in a lot of 177 00:12:58.850 --> 00:13:01.809 respects was there was a lot I loved about that. Yeah, but then 178 00:13:01.850 --> 00:13:05.490 they had the this this sort of contrast, I guess you had that really 179 00:13:05.529 --> 00:13:09.529 Nice, sweet sidewalk counselor didn't say anything, though. Yes, he didn't 180 00:13:09.529 --> 00:13:11.250 say anything, just were there. They just we are praying. And you 181 00:13:11.330 --> 00:13:16.240 had the people, you know, the radical right wing right, come over 182 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.000 here and you guy has a huge Bible. You know, of course it's 183 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.200 a big BOT KJV Bible. He's yelling at the woman, come over here, 184 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.960 don't murder your baby, talking. You know, it's like scoot a 185 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:28.909 man and yeah, angry and pumping his fist, and then in the guy 186 00:13:28.149 --> 00:13:31.909 course dress in the grim reaper outfit. You see that and in the crowd. 187 00:13:31.950 --> 00:13:35.509 I've ever seen do that in on our sidewalk is people on the other 188 00:13:35.549 --> 00:13:39.389 side. We've never done that. What I have you me the pro bort 189 00:13:39.470 --> 00:13:41.980 people. Yeah, Oh, yeah, the pro pro abortion people. I 190 00:13:41.059 --> 00:13:46.860 mean they're just a eight weeks ago. They're just like dinosaurs, weird. 191 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.659 Yeah, yeah, so there there's this caricature and there's this and I can 192 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:54.970 understand it from a pastor's perspective. I don't want to be associated with that 193 00:13:56.450 --> 00:14:01.250 right. The fact is that certainly, I would say, there are some 194 00:14:01.490 --> 00:14:03.850 folks that act like that and there's there's some of that there are, but 195 00:14:05.009 --> 00:14:07.690 there's also really rotten missionaries that do some rotten things. To do. We 196 00:14:07.730 --> 00:14:09.720 say, well, I don't want to go in the mission field and I 197 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.679 don't want to be talking about missions because I don't want to be pegged as 198 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.639 one of those kind of missionaries or whatever. You know, you know, 199 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.360 you got your your TV of angelist preachers. That all they talked about his 200 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:26.110 money and getting more here, raising much touch. The television said there's fanatics, 201 00:14:26.190 --> 00:14:31.830 there's crazy, eccentric crazies. Yeah, in any movement, especially any 202 00:14:31.909 --> 00:14:35.950 movement where there's great passion. Yeah, but that should not be what defines 203 00:14:37.389 --> 00:14:41.299 the movement. And if you don't know, if you've never seen a sidewalk 204 00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:46.860 ministry and action, or you've never spoken with pastors maybe who are passionate about 205 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:50.059 speaking about abortion, and you don't know how they approach it, well, 206 00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:56.009 maybe it would be who've pastors and others to find out what. Yeah, 207 00:14:56.129 --> 00:15:01.210 responsible and normal people, Yeah, love the Lord and love that. Or, 208 00:15:01.570 --> 00:15:03.090 you know, go and start a ministry, like, if you don't 209 00:15:03.090 --> 00:15:09.320 like the way that they're doing it, then then seek the Lord and start 210 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.759 a ministry out of your own congregation. That would do it. What you 211 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:13.840 perceived to be the right way. Right, you know, when guest said 212 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.960 very wise man, I don't know is that you were know, wasn't me 213 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.590 who said something to the effect of all, I like the way that I'm 214 00:15:20.669 --> 00:15:24.029 doing it better than the way that you're not doing it. So you might 215 00:15:24.110 --> 00:15:26.909 be critical of what I'm doing, okay, but at least I'm doing something, 216 00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:30.950 you know, at least I'm out there and you know, we could 217 00:15:30.950 --> 00:15:33.149 be critical of other people doing things like wow, I would not do it 218 00:15:33.269 --> 00:15:37.779 that way. Okay, then come and show me how you would do it, 219 00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:41.419 you know, show me in certainly as a ministry and as the director 220 00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:46.940 this Ministry, I'm always open to pastures. Given me feedback on right. 221 00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:48.899 Okay, what could we do better? You know, long as it's long 222 00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:50.970 as you can give me scripture. The call. Yeah, long as you 223 00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:54.769 give me scription. If you just give me some opinion of man and some 224 00:15:54.009 --> 00:15:58.129 you know, business model or something like that, I could really care less. 225 00:15:58.450 --> 00:16:00.250 But if you give me scripture and show me in the scripture where something 226 00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:04.440 I'm doing is is off base and it doesn't honor the Lord Man, I'm 227 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.480 I'll be the first to thank you and then correct that thing. Yeah, 228 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.440 but sometimes you know as pastors, if we don't, you know, if 229 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.519 we don't want to be associated with a caricature of something, first of all, 230 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.549 more than likely that caricature is incorrect, especially if you're being fed that 231 00:16:18.669 --> 00:16:22.549 from the world. Right, right? Can you trust the world to give 232 00:16:22.590 --> 00:16:26.990 a good and accurate representation of the people of God? No, no, 233 00:16:26.190 --> 00:16:30.470 not really. So don't. Don't believe that. But even if those caricatures 234 00:16:30.509 --> 00:16:34.500 are true, then then be an example of what is right, what is 235 00:16:34.580 --> 00:16:37.700 wholesome, what honors the Lord in that realm of ministry. Uh Huh. 236 00:16:38.059 --> 00:16:41.220 Well, I'll tell you. What attracted me so much to our ministry, 237 00:16:41.299 --> 00:16:47.889 to cities for life, was that I loved the pleading aspect of it, 238 00:16:47.970 --> 00:16:52.610 which I felt followed the heart of God. It struck me as how Jesus 239 00:16:52.649 --> 00:16:56.169 would approach, yeah, this sort of ministry, were he to do this 240 00:16:56.330 --> 00:17:03.639 sort of ministry I did. I didn't hear a tone of condemnation, but 241 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:08.480 of a true desire to help guide people in a biblical way, back to 242 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:15.950 God, yeah, and to the love of their child. So there are 243 00:17:15.150 --> 00:17:22.230 ministries. I know firsthand. There are ministries that that are very biblically Gospel, 244 00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:30.099 if Gospel focused and and I would I would really encourage pastors to go 245 00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:36.140 out and find those in common and seek out those different ministries and and support 246 00:17:36.259 --> 00:17:40.819 them, because we do need support. Yeah, okay, here's one. 247 00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:47.650 I feel inadequate to address the issue of abortion. Yeah, it's probably true. 248 00:17:48.049 --> 00:17:51.410 You should. They are. Yeah, I'man inadequate. Well, the 249 00:17:51.490 --> 00:17:53.849 Apostle Paul, I believe this, in the first couple of chapters of First 250 00:17:53.930 --> 00:17:57.450 Corinthians, where he's talking about he says, I'm going to be able to 251 00:17:57.450 --> 00:18:02.920 quote it exactly, but he says talking about the proclamation of the Gospel and 252 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.240 those who are believers, he says to some we are the fragrance of death 253 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:08.319 leading to death and some we are the fragrance of life leading to life. 254 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.750 And so he's talking about how some people except the Gospel and receive us as 255 00:18:12.789 --> 00:18:17.670 ministers of the Gospel. Well, and some people reject the Gospel and reject 256 00:18:17.710 --> 00:18:21.309 US as ministers. And then he says who is sufficient for these things? 257 00:18:21.789 --> 00:18:26.029 So Paul even recognizes the Great Apostle Paul, who all of us want to 258 00:18:26.029 --> 00:18:29.420 be like when we grow up. If anyone is sufficient, he should be 259 00:18:29.420 --> 00:18:33.980 suicacious. Who is sufficient for these things? Recognizing that our sufficiency is not 260 00:18:33.140 --> 00:18:37.900 in and of ourselves and based on our own wisdom, but our sufficiency comes 261 00:18:37.940 --> 00:18:41.769 from Christ. So when we this is a mountainous issue to address, there's 262 00:18:41.809 --> 00:18:45.930 no doubt about it, because the issue of abortion affects individuals, it kills 263 00:18:45.970 --> 00:18:49.930 individual lies, it affects individual women and men, but are also is a 264 00:18:51.049 --> 00:18:55.450 national sin or the innocent blood of these children is as a nation, we're 265 00:18:55.450 --> 00:19:00.079 guilty for a massive and that that one. And for people have yet an 266 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.759 abortion, is what those that are want. And for women, yeah, 267 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:06.720 have had A and who? I would say this is the number one moral 268 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:11.670 issue of our day. So it's a mountainous issue to address, but we 269 00:19:11.750 --> 00:19:15.589 shouldn't let the the you know, God moves mountains, right. Yeah, 270 00:19:15.750 --> 00:19:18.509 we shouldn't let the the fact that this is a big issue and a mountainous 271 00:19:18.509 --> 00:19:22.589 issue make a shot back from addressing the issue. What we need to do 272 00:19:22.869 --> 00:19:26.980 is, pastors is pressed into God and ask God, how do I address 273 00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:30.420 this issue? Because no one, at least I'm not pretending that it's an 274 00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:37.220 easy issue to address and that there's somehow a biblical percentage of how often you're 275 00:19:37.220 --> 00:19:41.170 to talk about abortion and how often you're not. I don't know what that 276 00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:45.569 is, but I do know that it's pastors, we're to address the issues 277 00:19:45.650 --> 00:19:48.210 that are that are moral issues in our society and in our day. That's 278 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:52.849 that's a mandate. We have to do that. Yeah, and we have 279 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.279 to address those issues forth rightly, but also with grace, and so seeking 280 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.839 the Lord and trying to figure out, okay, when would God have me 281 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.079 to address this issue and how how deep do I get into this issue? 282 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.509 Do you do a series about the sanctity of human life? Do you do 283 00:20:07.630 --> 00:20:11.190 you talk about just do a series of just about abortion, and I think 284 00:20:11.230 --> 00:20:15.630 that would be very fitting. So, yeah, we're not adequate. I'm 285 00:20:15.630 --> 00:20:18.869 not adequate. I'm not adequate to be out on the sidewalk at the abortion 286 00:20:18.950 --> 00:20:22.180 clinic right if I was adequate and of myself, that would probably be an 287 00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:25.740 issue. It would be who needs to have the right, and we do. 288 00:20:25.940 --> 00:20:29.099 We need, desperately need him. I got this figured out. Less 289 00:20:29.140 --> 00:20:32.180 to help with that. Of the counterpoint to this that, well, it's 290 00:20:32.259 --> 00:20:37.250 not in opposition to what you're saying, but just complimenting what you're saying. 291 00:20:37.490 --> 00:20:41.769 Is Well, if you're inadequate in an area, you know in the say, 292 00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:47.890 the facts that you need to know to to be able to address this 293 00:20:48.049 --> 00:20:52.240 issue. Well, there's so many resources out there, there is so much. 294 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:57.599 There is a wealth of information available, and so educate yourself. That's 295 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:03.119 what I did when I knew nothing, really when I when I came six 296 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:07.470 years ago to the sidewalk and when I didn't know something, I'd Google it 297 00:21:07.589 --> 00:21:10.109 or I got you know, there was a way to find the information. 298 00:21:10.630 --> 00:21:14.589 But the second thing is, and I think it's so important, is that 299 00:21:15.029 --> 00:21:21.099 there are ministries devoted to this. Yeah, devoted to pro life issues, 300 00:21:21.259 --> 00:21:26.859 devoted to sidewalk advocacy. The pastor doesn't need all the answers, but it 301 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:30.339 sure would be good, in my opinion, for the churches to be supporting 302 00:21:30.500 --> 00:21:36.529 those ministries because we we don't have all the answers, but we do have 303 00:21:36.690 --> 00:21:42.690 a wealth of experience in dealing with these issues and and so. But you 304 00:21:42.769 --> 00:21:47.089 know, with the support of the church it they can be so much more 305 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:49.839 effectively. Yeah, and you know, I think of you locally. I'm 306 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:55.200 certainly willing and have gone to churches and spoken of the issue of abortion, 307 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:57.279 spoke on it, you know, not just from the sidewalk counseling perspective. 308 00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:02.029 It just the General Perspective Love Life, our partner ministry. They do that 309 00:22:02.150 --> 00:22:06.829 on a regular basis. They go and share the tragic truth of abortion the 310 00:22:07.390 --> 00:22:12.829 congregations in our city. Even pregnancy centers go and plenty of pregnancy to center 311 00:22:12.910 --> 00:22:17.700 directors, Tara, who we had on the podcast some months ago with Monroe. 312 00:22:17.859 --> 00:22:19.660 Hell, yeah, with help, pregnancy center has gone and spoken at 313 00:22:19.660 --> 00:22:23.819 churches and youth groups and whatever. You know. And so if pastors are 314 00:22:23.859 --> 00:22:26.220 looking and saying, well, you know, I'm in adequate to address this 315 00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:30.289 issue, and again, yes and Amen, yes you are, but God 316 00:22:30.329 --> 00:22:33.529 can give you the grace to do it. But maybe that's a charge or 317 00:22:33.650 --> 00:22:37.970 that's a that's a time where you say, Hey, I'll get somebody else 318 00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:40.970 to address this issue. I'll talk to a pregnancy center, I'll talk to 319 00:22:41.450 --> 00:22:44.880 another ministry that can come and write and do a presentation or, you know, 320 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:48.680 speak for fifteen, twenty minutes or whatever, however you do that. 321 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.119 There's other people that can address this issue. Yeah, exactly. So. 322 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.799 So we'll move on to then. I believe this is number four. Okay, 323 00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:00.990 and this is a big one. I am afraid I will alienate and 324 00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:06.549 drive away women who have had abortion. Yeah. Well, you know the 325 00:23:06.630 --> 00:23:11.230 statistic. I think you gave it earlier. One in for women have had 326 00:23:11.269 --> 00:23:15.940 an abortion, and that translates also into the church. Yeah, so likely 327 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:22.259 in the congregation that you pastors are addressing on a weekly basis, there's several 328 00:23:22.299 --> 00:23:26.460 women, at least a couple of women, that have had abortion in their 329 00:23:26.539 --> 00:23:30.329 past. Yeah, and some have been, you know, forthright with it 330 00:23:30.490 --> 00:23:34.849 and it's part of their testimony and they share that testimony. Some haven't shared 331 00:23:34.890 --> 00:23:38.329 it with anybody. They're suffering in silence. And I had read when I 332 00:23:38.450 --> 00:23:44.759 was researching for this podcast, that seventy percent of the women who go for 333 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:49.759 an abortion identify asked Christians. Yeah, so they're there. There's yeah, 334 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:52.240 we see it through, see it as we stand on the sidewalk. We 335 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.910 see the cars drive in with the church stickers. Yeah, all the time. 336 00:23:56.069 --> 00:24:00.430 Yeah, and that's maybe a podcast for another day, but that reality 337 00:24:00.549 --> 00:24:03.829 is that, I would say, the vast majority of those don't really know 338 00:24:04.029 --> 00:24:08.829 the Lord and are not really part of the church anyway. Yeah, however, 339 00:24:10.220 --> 00:24:14.460 they are in congregations and that is a valid concern, and even from 340 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:18.740 those who you know who've been in the congregation for years and have an abortion 341 00:24:18.140 --> 00:24:22.819 in their past and haven't shared that. You have to be sensitive to those 342 00:24:22.900 --> 00:24:27.809 issues. You need to be considerate as a shepherd of the sheep, you 343 00:24:27.930 --> 00:24:32.650 know, as the analogy goes from the scripture. But, as I said 344 00:24:32.730 --> 00:24:36.289 earlier, you know as a shepherd there's wounds that we have to tend to 345 00:24:36.490 --> 00:24:38.960 and they're gonna hurt. It might drive the sheep a little bit away and 346 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:44.599 you gotta Trust God to bring them near. You know, as a doctor, 347 00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:47.759 in the analogy of a doctor, you know, doctor might say something 348 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:49.599 to the effect of, you know, cancer is a big issue. It's 349 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:53.150 probably one of the biggest issues we face. And as a doctor, if 350 00:24:53.230 --> 00:24:56.869 I talk about cancer and I've got a patient that has cancer potentially, you 351 00:24:56.950 --> 00:25:00.430 know I could talk about the risks of cancer. If you do this and 352 00:25:00.549 --> 00:25:03.509 do that, you know I might drive people away and I'm telling make him 353 00:25:03.549 --> 00:25:07.339 feel bad. Plenty of doctors have addressed and not to address with their patients 354 00:25:07.619 --> 00:25:12.299 smoking in the risks that smoking causes as far as cancer, lung cancer is 355 00:25:12.420 --> 00:25:17.819 concerned. has that ever driven a patient away from a doctor? I guarantee 356 00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:19.140 you it has. There have been patients that have said I'm not going to 357 00:25:19.220 --> 00:25:22.569 that doctor anymore. He talks too much about how could get lung cancer or 358 00:25:22.609 --> 00:25:26.849 obesity. I'm not going to that doctor anymore. He talks too much about 359 00:25:26.849 --> 00:25:29.849 how much I'm eating and I need to watch my way because I could get 360 00:25:29.890 --> 00:25:32.410 diabetes and all these other things. I don't want to go to that guy 361 00:25:32.410 --> 00:25:36.039 anymore because he makes me feel bad. All right, but that's what he's 362 00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:40.079 supposed to do. He's supposed to address is if he really cares about his 363 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:44.279 patient, he's going to talk about smoking and the risks they're involved in smoke. 364 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:48.599 He's going to talk about obesity and the risk that are involved in eating 365 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.630 too much and obesity and not working out. All that because he's a good 366 00:25:52.630 --> 00:25:56.269 doctor. In the same way a pastor, we have to address these issues. 367 00:25:56.069 --> 00:26:00.230 We have to deal with issue of abortion because it's worse than cancer. 368 00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:07.779 It spreads and it devastates families, it leaves women under oppression and depression and 369 00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:11.259 we have to address the issue, just like a doctor has to address the 370 00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:17.299 issue of cancer before he can talk start talking about surgery and start talking about 371 00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:19.289 remedy to this issue of cancer. You know, you deal with that with 372 00:26:19.410 --> 00:26:22.650 breast cancer. Yeah, some years back in your doctor had to give you 373 00:26:22.730 --> 00:26:26.769 the whole, the cold hard truth about this thing. Yeah, so, 374 00:26:26.849 --> 00:26:29.369 yeah, I would be willing to receive the the remedy. Yeah, and 375 00:26:29.690 --> 00:26:33.240 I mean none of their motive was make us feel bad. Yeah, the 376 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:41.799 motive is is to to heal and to maybe prevent from getting a disease, 377 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:45.880 if you're going with the analogy of the doctor. But in the in terms 378 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:52.509 of abortion, congregation is filled of potential abortion minded women. Yeah, and 379 00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:56.150 if no one is speaking about that, the word of God is quite clear 380 00:26:56.829 --> 00:27:03.140 that the shedding of innocent blood is an abomination before God and that the unborn 381 00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:07.819 child is made in the image of God and has intrinsic value based on that. 382 00:27:10.299 --> 00:27:15.210 If no one is sharing that, then that women go thinking, well, 383 00:27:15.250 --> 00:27:18.809 my church is okay with them. They've never said anything against it. 384 00:27:19.210 --> 00:27:25.650 Yeah, so that's one of the dangers of silence. But a second danger 385 00:27:25.970 --> 00:27:33.359 of silence is if the pastor's not talking about abortion, then the post abortive 386 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:41.240 woman who is largely feeling shame and is in this cocoon. Well, it's 387 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:48.109 not a cocoon, it's really a prison of silence. She's afraid to share. 388 00:27:48.109 --> 00:27:52.750 Yeah, she has had an abortion and the wounds run very deep and 389 00:27:53.269 --> 00:27:57.900 a pastor silence only contributes, yeah, to that feeling that this is a 390 00:27:59.059 --> 00:28:03.339 taboo. The SABA passion never talks about it. Therefore I should never talk 391 00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:07.420 about it. And I and I'm justified in feeling all of this shame and 392 00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:15.329 self condemnation and and it will never heal unless that sin is recognized first of 393 00:28:15.410 --> 00:28:22.529 all as a sin, is confessed, is repented and turned from and then 394 00:28:22.809 --> 00:28:26.130 is given to the Lord. Yeah, and he will, he will take 395 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.599 that burden, yeah, away from us. But not not if they're silence. 396 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:36.839 None of that healing is going to happen, at least not the spiritual 397 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.160 healing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and if, as a pastor, 398 00:28:41.509 --> 00:28:45.109 you know that that's our chief desire, that the healing that God offers. 399 00:28:45.309 --> 00:28:48.470 Yeah, let you know problem. Sin Is introduced and accepted, you know, 400 00:28:48.549 --> 00:28:52.309 by those of you are listening right now. An example is just from 401 00:28:52.390 --> 00:28:59.420 today out on the sidewalk they're a woman stopped on on her way into the 402 00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:03.299 abortion center and and I handed her information, thinking she was there for an 403 00:29:03.299 --> 00:29:07.500 abortion, and she was very honest and said I'm not pregnant, that she 404 00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:11.769 already had the abortion it. Yeah, and I said well, how are 405 00:29:11.809 --> 00:29:15.490 you feeling? How are you dealing with it? and Said, Oh, 406 00:29:15.490 --> 00:29:19.769 I'm good, and she's just smiling and I said, honey, I don't 407 00:29:19.809 --> 00:29:26.880 think you're good, I'm I'm post abortive and I know the aftermath of abortion, 408 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:32.440 and she teared up and took my post abortive information that we handed her 409 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:37.710 and just instantly her demeanor changed. Yeah, so she could carry on this 410 00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:44.029 veneer of feeling that she was good, but as soon as the issue was 411 00:29:44.230 --> 00:29:49.750 brought up she melted and I immediately went to a discussion of confession, forgiveness, 412 00:29:49.869 --> 00:29:53.059 turning to God and that I would talk to her any time, and 413 00:29:53.299 --> 00:29:56.259 so I hope, I hope she will call me. But but that's where 414 00:29:56.259 --> 00:30:03.619 healing begins, when that silence is lifted. Yeah, you know the analogy 415 00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:06.859 of a doctor. Again, if you're dealing with a wound and you're dealing 416 00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:11.650 with something that's you know it's underlying, it's not very evident. This wound 417 00:30:11.730 --> 00:30:14.210 is kind of covered up and it's covered up. You know, however, 418 00:30:14.250 --> 00:30:17.890 it's covered up, but the infection is not dealt with, it gets worse 419 00:30:18.369 --> 00:30:21.799 and it can ultimately lead to death. Right, and the same way with 420 00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:25.720 the issue of abortion. This is a deep wound that needs to be addressed. 421 00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:30.680 It needs to be some antiseptic, the Gospel and aseptic applied to it. 422 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.039 But if it just stays covered up and it's not dealt with, it's 423 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.990 going to fester and as gonna be all kinds of destruction. And that comes 424 00:30:37.670 --> 00:30:41.829 from that wound. And look at what the world is saying, though, 425 00:30:41.190 --> 00:30:48.109 about abortion. The the pro choice side, is saying it's normal. Yeah, 426 00:30:48.630 --> 00:30:55.900 it's okay, there is no aftermath, no consequences. And so here's 427 00:30:55.980 --> 00:31:00.140 this woman suffering in silence. Her Pastor's not talking about it, the world 428 00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:03.539 her for she's not daring to share it with anyone. Yeah, and she 429 00:31:03.059 --> 00:31:08.170 knows that's not true. She knows she doesn't feel normal. Yeah, she 430 00:31:08.490 --> 00:31:14.730 knows she's wounded and she feels this guilt that she doesn't know what to do 431 00:31:14.930 --> 00:31:18.480 with because there's no one and it's almost like a guilt of huldn't be feeling 432 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.960 guilty like these, everybody says. So I'm abnormal. I'm completely out of 433 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.279 the norm. Here there's people shouting their abortions. So why am I not? 434 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:30.160 Why is that not what I'm feeling? Yeah, and if there's our 435 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:36.589 spiritual heads, the the pastors in our churches, if they're not telling them 436 00:31:37.069 --> 00:31:41.670 this is wrong and there is a path to forgiveness and healing. But we 437 00:31:41.990 --> 00:31:48.859 have to recognize it's wrong first. Then, you know, they then they'll 438 00:31:48.859 --> 00:31:53.140 go on suffering in silence. Yeah, to worse and worse consequences. Yeah, 439 00:31:55.339 --> 00:31:59.019 so those were the top five. Okay, and in this one, 440 00:31:59.059 --> 00:32:02.650 let's see if there's some other ones. I do not want to be seen 441 00:32:02.690 --> 00:32:08.690 as conferencetional, is what one pasture. Yeah, or several pastors apparently reported. 442 00:32:08.730 --> 00:32:12.730 It's being why they don't talk about it. Yeah, and of course, 443 00:32:12.730 --> 00:32:16.240 again this is a this is a controversial issue, obviously, and anything 444 00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:22.079 that's controversial, when you mention it, you're viewed as a confrontational and in 445 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:27.279 a sense, in any time you're addressing sin, you are confronting evil and 446 00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:31.190 there is a confrontation that takes place. But you know, as pastures and 447 00:32:31.549 --> 00:32:35.990 as ministers of the Gospel, if we don't deal with the issue of sin, 448 00:32:36.109 --> 00:32:37.549 I just abortion, but any other sin, if we don't talk about 449 00:32:37.710 --> 00:32:42.990 sin, we are derelict in our duty as pastors. We have to talk 450 00:32:43.029 --> 00:32:46.740 about sin because sin is the issue all of the eels of society, all 451 00:32:46.779 --> 00:32:51.539 the problems that are going on in the congregation and the things in their past 452 00:32:51.619 --> 00:32:54.500 that they're dealing with that they need healing from a rooted in sin. And 453 00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:58.890 so we don't address sin, they we're not addressing the main issue of separation 454 00:32:58.970 --> 00:33:01.849 between God and Man. You know, they're sort of this. It irks 455 00:33:01.890 --> 00:33:05.650 me now in one sense it's true. Okay, I listen to a lot 456 00:33:05.690 --> 00:33:10.130 of Christian preaching and Christian music and all that stuff, and the center around 457 00:33:10.130 --> 00:33:14.160 this idea is that people don't know how much God loves them and if only 458 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:15.839 knew how much God loves them, how much they are value by God and 459 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.200 how special they are to God and how wonderful they are in God's sight. 460 00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:22.039 Okay, I'm going a little far with it, but you know, and 461 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:27.670 saying that it's like it's focused on that. People don't go to hell because 462 00:33:27.710 --> 00:33:30.470 they don't know how much God loves them. People don't end up in hell 463 00:33:30.549 --> 00:33:34.950 and on destructive ass because they don't understand how wonderful they are to God. 464 00:33:35.789 --> 00:33:38.309 People go to hell because of their sin. That's why they go to hell. 465 00:33:38.589 --> 00:33:44.180 God puts people inhale because they are sinners who love their sin. We 466 00:33:44.259 --> 00:33:45.339 can talk about the love of God, and we should, but the love 467 00:33:45.339 --> 00:33:52.180 of God is only fully seen in light of our our reprobation against God. 468 00:33:52.299 --> 00:33:55.690 Right, depravity, reason why he shouldn't love us. Right, yeah. 469 00:33:55.970 --> 00:34:00.730 But but the fact that he loves US despite the fact that we're sinner and 470 00:34:00.970 --> 00:34:05.369 that in that is the the love of God displayed. Is that we were 471 00:34:05.490 --> 00:34:08.730 yet sinners. Right, Christ died for us. So our sin and our 472 00:34:08.809 --> 00:34:14.760 depravity and our departure from the truth, and yet God's willingness to come and 473 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:20.480 to rescue and to save is a magnificent display of the love of God and 474 00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:24.389 in that people have confidence in God's love, that God would come and rescue 475 00:34:24.389 --> 00:34:27.670 me in the midst of my depravity. So, anyway, I say that 476 00:34:27.789 --> 00:34:30.269 to say that we need to talk about the issue of sin, we need 477 00:34:30.309 --> 00:34:34.030 to talk about the issue of abortion and other sins so that people can actually 478 00:34:34.030 --> 00:34:37.820 see the love of God on display and his mercy towards sinners. Yeah, 479 00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:43.219 and and that's an important that's some important job for every pastor. Yeah, 480 00:34:43.219 --> 00:34:50.300 I can't. I don't know any pastor who can effectively pastor at Church without 481 00:34:50.539 --> 00:34:53.170 confronting yeah, without being confrontational. Now, you can do it in a 482 00:34:53.329 --> 00:34:59.650 loving way. Yeah, but you know, if you who's our example ultimately, 483 00:34:59.730 --> 00:35:02.929 well, Jesus, Jesus example. Did Jesus ever mentioned him? Think 484 00:35:02.969 --> 00:35:07.000 you did quite a few times, a matter of fact. Often Times. 485 00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:13.519 Jesus was very confrontational and confronted, of course, the Pharisees in their hypocrisy, 486 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:15.840 but he was not just you know, he confronted. You know, 487 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.679 we look at John Chapter Four, at the story of the woman at the 488 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.989 well. Yeah, and she comes and approaches him and she's wanting water and 489 00:35:23.150 --> 00:35:25.190 you know, he says, you would ask me, I could give you 490 00:35:25.309 --> 00:35:29.670 living water, and she says, well, I only get this water anyway. 491 00:35:29.710 --> 00:35:31.150 You know the story. But he doesn't just leave it there. You 492 00:35:31.230 --> 00:35:34.550 know, listen, women, you know I love you a whole lot. 493 00:35:34.590 --> 00:35:37.300 I just love you and your special to me and all that being a little 494 00:35:37.300 --> 00:35:40.380 silly, you get them saying, but he talks about her sin, like 495 00:35:40.539 --> 00:35:44.780 he's pointing out to her. He says, okay, good, call your 496 00:35:44.780 --> 00:35:46.059 husband here and she's like, well, I don't have a husband. He's 497 00:35:46.099 --> 00:35:51.250 like, Oh, yeah, you spoke right. You have had five husband's 498 00:35:51.250 --> 00:35:53.530 and the guy you're with now is not even your husband. He's calling out 499 00:35:53.570 --> 00:35:57.849 her sin. Yeah, he's not just hugging her and tell her how much 500 00:35:57.849 --> 00:36:00.530 he loves her. And now, of course, he does display the love 501 00:36:00.610 --> 00:36:04.679 of God and all of that. And and it seems like that whole area 502 00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:08.239 people came to Jesus and hurt his teaching and she proclaimed. You know, 503 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:12.880 she ultimately receives a truth of WHO this guy is, but he talks about 504 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.719 her sin in the same way. You know in John, I think it's 505 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:19.630 John Chapter Ten, with the woman that's was caught an adultrey. What does 506 00:36:19.670 --> 00:36:21.750 he tell her? He doesn't say, you know, after you know, 507 00:36:22.110 --> 00:36:23.230 you guys know the stories. I don't need to retell it. But all 508 00:36:23.269 --> 00:36:28.150 the accusers had left. It doesn't say, oh so we're your accusers, 509 00:36:28.389 --> 00:36:30.630 will just remember I love you right, you know, he says go and 510 00:36:30.829 --> 00:36:36.780 sin no more. He talks about sin even to because we might imagine Jesus 511 00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:38.900 is very harsh with the Pharisees but he's very soft with everyone else, and 512 00:36:39.019 --> 00:36:44.059 that in one sense is true. But he does talk about sin. He 513 00:36:44.179 --> 00:36:45.579 does talk about sin with the woman at the well, with the woman caught 514 00:36:45.579 --> 00:36:50.449 an adultery, talks about sin with his own apostles and talks about their sin 515 00:36:50.570 --> 00:36:52.170 of wanting to be, you know, the first in the Kingdom of God 516 00:36:52.210 --> 00:36:54.730 and want to sit beside him and on this throne. He talks about that 517 00:36:54.849 --> 00:37:00.530 sin of selfishness and and self promotion. And so Jesus is always addressing the 518 00:37:00.570 --> 00:37:05.320 issue is sin. Yes, Jesus is now, and was then, a 519 00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:10.920 very confrontational person, but he is very gracious in his confrontation. Yeah, 520 00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.750 and that's key, except for the whip of cords incident, and that was 521 00:37:15.869 --> 00:37:19.949 one, actually twice. Okay, yeah, it seems. It seems that 522 00:37:19.989 --> 00:37:23.949 happened twice. Okay, so you know, and pastors are trained, presumably, 523 00:37:24.750 --> 00:37:30.500 to be gracious and how that they confronts sin, but they they certainly 524 00:37:30.219 --> 00:37:32.139 need to come when you know, I hear a lot of times you know, 525 00:37:32.219 --> 00:37:36.619 we need to speak the truth and love, and what that basically means 526 00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:39.300 is we need to be nice to people. And it's true, but we 527 00:37:39.619 --> 00:37:43.820 again, we can't let the world dictate, dictate to us what it means 528 00:37:43.940 --> 00:37:49.210 to be speaking the truth and love. Like speaking the truth is love for 529 00:37:49.369 --> 00:37:52.050 some people who are in sin, dead in our trispasses and sins, or 530 00:37:52.050 --> 00:37:57.010 at least in bondage to pass ends even though they're Christians. This is kind 531 00:37:57.050 --> 00:38:00.400 of mostly what we're talking about as Christians in the congregation who are born of 532 00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:04.960 God and yet they have this sin in their past that they've not brought before 533 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:08.239 the Lord, at least in any kind of a public in a healing way. 534 00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:14.389 We need are or they're sitting there contemplating abortion? It could be yes, 535 00:38:14.630 --> 00:38:17.429 sure, and so we need to address this issue for the sake of 536 00:38:17.469 --> 00:38:22.829 healing and restoration and for the sake of love. Love is an action word 537 00:38:22.030 --> 00:38:24.789 and as pastors, if we're going to love our congregants, we need to 538 00:38:24.829 --> 00:38:29.219 be talking about the issues that affect them. An abortion is one of those. 539 00:38:29.539 --> 00:38:32.179 We know it's statistically that one out of four women are affected by the 540 00:38:32.219 --> 00:38:36.179 issue of abortion. So you got to address the thing, even if we're 541 00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:42.690 viewed as confrontation. Yeah, so kind of a similar issue raised by some 542 00:38:42.849 --> 00:38:45.329 other pastors. I do not want to drive away anyone who has had an 543 00:38:45.329 --> 00:38:51.010 abortion or who has been directly touched by abortion. Yeah, and that's sort 544 00:38:51.010 --> 00:38:53.769 of similar to the in the confrontation thing and some of the previous things. 545 00:38:53.969 --> 00:38:59.639 You know, I don't want to I don't want to alienate anyone and I 546 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.000 get it valid concern. But again, just like a doctor, he doesn't 547 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:07.320 want to drive patients aways. So does he refuse to talk about cancer or 548 00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:10.070 obesity or whatever? Of course not right, because this is job to address 549 00:39:10.070 --> 00:39:17.269 these issues so that they can be dealt with. Yeah, how about my 550 00:39:17.469 --> 00:39:23.820 fellow pastors are not talking about this topic either. Yeah, wow, that 551 00:39:23.980 --> 00:39:29.380 pastors actually said that. That was that's a main reason why they don't, 552 00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:34.260 because they feel like they'd be alone and discussing, yeah, the topic. 553 00:39:34.420 --> 00:39:38.210 Sometimes you have to stand out in a crowd, don't you? Sometimes you 554 00:39:38.329 --> 00:39:43.769 have to be the one who's addressing the things that other people aren't. Sounds 555 00:39:43.809 --> 00:39:49.250 a little bit like the Prophets of the apostles, Jesus. You know, 556 00:39:49.849 --> 00:39:53.679 sometimes you have to be the guy that's addressing the issue that no one else 557 00:39:53.719 --> 00:39:58.360 wants to talk about, because, again, it's the heart of God to 558 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:00.360 to get these things out. You know the motivation, and it's if it 559 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:04.800 comes from a some self righteous motivation. Or I want to talk about abortion. 560 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:07.869 I talk about abortion all the time because I've never had one and been 561 00:40:07.869 --> 00:40:09.150 a part of one and it makes me feel more spiritual. Well, that 562 00:40:09.190 --> 00:40:13.349 would be a problem. That's probably not the case with most pastors there. 563 00:40:13.429 --> 00:40:16.750 They're shining away from it because they want alienate, isolate and and they don't 564 00:40:16.750 --> 00:40:22.059 want to stand out in a crowd of you know pastors. They're addressing issues. 565 00:40:22.099 --> 00:40:25.139 Yeah, but that's only really good point. That that every prophet, 566 00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:30.780 in Jesus himself, were were reviled. Yeah, and rejected by men. 567 00:40:31.139 --> 00:40:34.820 Yeah, what Jesus said, if they rejected me, they're going to reject 568 00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:37.929 you as well. Right, the motivation in again is not like want to 569 00:40:37.969 --> 00:40:42.690 be rejected. So let me go completely over the top with my proclamation of 570 00:40:42.769 --> 00:40:45.929 this particular truth. No, we address it in Biblical terms, in a 571 00:40:45.969 --> 00:40:51.320 biblical framework. But again, the world, the world's Goin to view us 572 00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:54.119 as nuts anyway. And we're talking about this eternal God who exists in three 573 00:40:54.199 --> 00:40:58.960 persons, who came to this earth, lay down his life to die for 574 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:00.760 our sins and rose from the grave. The world thinks that, like the 575 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:06.230 Bible says that Gospel, the preaching of the cross, is foolishness to those 576 00:41:06.269 --> 00:41:08.869 who are perish. You know the world does when they call the preaching of 577 00:41:08.909 --> 00:41:13.389 the Cross and the prepeaching of the truths of God foolishness, is they just 578 00:41:13.429 --> 00:41:15.230 validate the scripture actually, because the Bible says that. They would call it 579 00:41:15.269 --> 00:41:19.139 foolishness. Yeah, so, you know, we can't fall into the trap 580 00:41:19.300 --> 00:41:22.300 and the snare of the fear of man and let the world dictate to us 581 00:41:22.340 --> 00:41:27.099 the things that we talk about. We can address issues and there are plenty 582 00:41:27.139 --> 00:41:30.059 of and this is an admonishment I want to give to anyone who is listening, 583 00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:34.010 whether it be a pastor that's listening or congregate who wants to talk to 584 00:41:34.090 --> 00:41:37.449 your pastor about addressing the issue of abortion, is that there are plenty of 585 00:41:37.530 --> 00:41:42.530 pastors out there on the Internet that have that very graciously and fourth rightly address 586 00:41:42.610 --> 00:41:45.130 this issue. I mean, if you search abortion, what does the Bible 587 00:41:45.170 --> 00:41:47.199 say about abortion, you're going to find, you know, John Piper is 588 00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:52.199 one of those guys who you almost like. The first three articles on that 589 00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:54.440 you know and that Google search are going to be from him, and then 590 00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:59.559 you're going to find plenty of other pastors that have addressed this issue and even 591 00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:02.949 messages you can listen to that will kind of give you an idea of how 592 00:42:02.989 --> 00:42:07.070 to go about this issue if you haven't or, you know, if you're 593 00:42:07.070 --> 00:42:10.510 a congregant and you want your pastor addresses issue, find some messages from some 594 00:42:10.670 --> 00:42:14.590 pastors that have and pass it along to your pastor and say hey, this 595 00:42:14.750 --> 00:42:17.699 pastor, and it quite likely he's it's a pastor that your pastor listens to 596 00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:22.260 or reads his books or whatever. Hey, this pastor addresses issue. Maybe, 597 00:42:22.420 --> 00:42:24.460 maybe you could address this thing. You know, I know they're there's 598 00:42:24.619 --> 00:42:29.900 I'm sure there's pressure on pastures to grow your church, yeah, and to 599 00:42:30.329 --> 00:42:37.849 have your congregation like you and and to invite all their friends. So I 600 00:42:37.650 --> 00:42:44.050 you know, and some of that is good, but if it's the motivation 601 00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:52.559 for whether you speak about a sin or not, then it's not good at 602 00:42:52.559 --> 00:43:00.150 all and what a lousy I'm sorry. What what allowsy excuse is that I 603 00:43:00.190 --> 00:43:02.750 don't want to. I don't want to be looked at as as a negative 604 00:43:02.829 --> 00:43:06.469 person or would right, or my church might, I might, there might 605 00:43:06.510 --> 00:43:09.550 be less attendants or whatever. You know that that was never it's might good 606 00:43:09.630 --> 00:43:14.059 down. That's not biblical. that'ss not Biblical. A matter of fact, 607 00:43:14.179 --> 00:43:16.420 Jesus, a story comes to mind in the life of Jesus and John, 608 00:43:16.460 --> 00:43:22.539 Chapter Six. It's almost like Jesus gives out of his way defend down his 609 00:43:22.659 --> 00:43:25.699 congregation, and this is a point where Jesus says, unless you eat my 610 00:43:25.820 --> 00:43:30.329 flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you. It's like 611 00:43:30.409 --> 00:43:34.130 Jesus knew who was talking to. He was talking to Jews who had, 612 00:43:34.489 --> 00:43:37.449 you know, abhorred pagan practices and they would be viewing you. Eating flesh 613 00:43:37.489 --> 00:43:40.679 and drinking blood would be a pagan practice that they would have afford. Right 614 00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:45.559 now. Jesus is not validating those practices, but he is, in a 615 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:51.320 hyperbical way, making a point and trying to separate out those who truly wanted 616 00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:55.150 to to to know him and truly wanted to hear from him. He says 617 00:43:55.150 --> 00:43:58.309 at one point, you know you're coming to me just because you ate of 618 00:43:58.349 --> 00:44:00.989 the bread. This is after he'd multiplied the bread and the fish. And 619 00:44:01.070 --> 00:44:04.710 he says, but I'm the bread that came down from heaven. Unless you 620 00:44:04.750 --> 00:44:07.309 eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you. 621 00:44:07.550 --> 00:44:09.300 And then so many fell away. Yeah, it says. At one point, 622 00:44:10.219 --> 00:44:15.579 says many, many stopped following him. Yeah, and and they said 623 00:44:15.659 --> 00:44:17.179 this is a hard saying, Lord, who can receive? So he gave 624 00:44:17.260 --> 00:44:21.940 them a hard saying. He made it hard for them to receive to judge 625 00:44:21.980 --> 00:44:24.530 the motivation of their heart. And then, this is funny to me, 626 00:44:24.650 --> 00:44:29.090 he looks at his disciples, the twelve, who you know, had left 627 00:44:29.170 --> 00:44:31.889 everything to follow him, and looks at them and says, you guys going 628 00:44:31.929 --> 00:44:35.969 to leave to so he wasn't like, Oh, you guys gonna leave all 629 00:44:36.050 --> 00:44:38.400 move. No, he was like, way I see it in the scripture, 630 00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:40.760 he's looking at them and saying, you guys can hit the road too 631 00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:44.519 if you want, like this is too tough for you, you can hit 632 00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:49.559 the road too, because Jesus was not concerned about pleasing men, he was 633 00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:53.630 concerned about obeying and pleasing his father in heaven and as even souls. And 634 00:44:53.710 --> 00:45:00.869 you're not going to save souls unless you confront what is sick in the soul. 635 00:45:00.909 --> 00:45:04.670 Yeah, absolutely, Sin. Yeah, and of course there can always 636 00:45:04.710 --> 00:45:09.059 be you know, a I don't know, taking it too far right, 637 00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:13.460 taking things too far, where you know, maybe a pastor that all he 638 00:45:13.579 --> 00:45:15.619 talks about is sin, Sin, Sin, Sin, and I think you 639 00:45:15.739 --> 00:45:20.300 know every message. At least this is my opinion. You should be addressing 640 00:45:20.420 --> 00:45:22.969 sin, issues of sin and whatever, but it doesn't need to be a 641 00:45:23.010 --> 00:45:27.329 hyper focus on sin all the time. People do need to understand the love 642 00:45:27.409 --> 00:45:30.730 of God. People do need to understand the covenant that God has made with 643 00:45:30.929 --> 00:45:36.199 man. People do need to understand a lot of truths about about God and 644 00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:39.599 about his word. Right, so it's not just talking about sin constantly. 645 00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:45.400 You can go overboard and the he'll fire brimstone all the time teaching you know, 646 00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:50.789 messages about hell all the time can be a little overwhelming for people, 647 00:45:50.989 --> 00:45:58.230 as can be a message just calling out the wrong of abortion to women entering 648 00:45:58.269 --> 00:46:02.190 an abortion clinic. And that is tempered by good side by conclers, always 649 00:46:02.269 --> 00:46:07.099 tempered by offers of hope and help. Yeah, especially hope, the hope 650 00:46:07.179 --> 00:46:13.980 in Christ and the hope of actually the changeable resources that can help alleviate whatever 651 00:46:14.059 --> 00:46:16.820 situation it is that they're facing. Yeah, so that's a really good point. 652 00:46:16.820 --> 00:46:22.329 Yeah, yeah, well, you know, the Lord just encourage every 653 00:46:22.369 --> 00:46:25.289 pastor and every every person who is you know, obviously you're listening to this 654 00:46:25.449 --> 00:46:29.289 podcast because this issue is near and dear to your heart. And I know 655 00:46:29.369 --> 00:46:31.690 there's some because I hear a lot of times my pastor is not talking about 656 00:46:31.690 --> 00:46:36.440 this thing, pastors not addressing the issue. Ye, I'll say pray for 657 00:46:36.519 --> 00:46:39.559 your pastor. Yeah, because there is some pressure here and there is temptation 658 00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:46.150 to not address this issue at all or as often as you ought to because 659 00:46:46.190 --> 00:46:50.989 of some of these these things you know, and they're at all completely invalid. 660 00:46:51.030 --> 00:46:54.269 Some of them pretty miserable excuses. But pray for your pastor and, 661 00:46:54.789 --> 00:46:59.190 you know, talk to him, like I said earlier, get some articles, 662 00:46:59.349 --> 00:47:04.099 print out some articles, email some articles, some messages where pastors talking 663 00:47:04.139 --> 00:47:07.340 about it. It's cleaning good stuff out there. Yeah, you can email 664 00:47:07.420 --> 00:47:10.179 us, you can email me and I'll try to shoot over some some videos 665 00:47:10.219 --> 00:47:15.250 your away from Youtube or whatever. That could encourage anybody who's listening to and 666 00:47:15.650 --> 00:47:20.369 something you can share with your pastor. Again, but pray for your pastor, 667 00:47:21.329 --> 00:47:25.170 encourage your pastor in this area and it maybe you can be that point 668 00:47:25.250 --> 00:47:30.000 person within your congregation who, that's right, yeah, who makes those connections 669 00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:35.280 with sidewalk counseling ministries, with pregnancy resource center ministries or whatever that is. 670 00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:37.679 But with that, yeah, I think we ought to rep this thing up. 671 00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:40.760 Yeah, you think? Yeah, yeah, so we appreciate those who 672 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.670 do listen and, as we all and as we always do, encourage you 673 00:47:45.710 --> 00:47:49.230 to contact us. Reach out to me. D Parks at cities cities in 674 00:47:49.269 --> 00:47:53.070 the number four lifecom and V cassie Org at cities for lifecom. If you 675 00:47:53.110 --> 00:47:58.780 want to connect with Vicki, and maybe you know you are thinking about starting 676 00:47:58.860 --> 00:48:01.860 a sidewalk counseling ministry in your local congregation. You're not from our area, 677 00:48:01.940 --> 00:48:06.579 so you can't connect with us as cities for life, but you can start 678 00:48:06.579 --> 00:48:09.739 out of your own congregation a sidewalk counseling ministry. That's what the sidewalks for 679 00:48:09.820 --> 00:48:15.570 life website is all about. WWW dot sidewalks, the number four lifecom. 680 00:48:15.170 --> 00:48:20.449 It's there to equip and to encourage and of course we're here. You can 681 00:48:20.489 --> 00:48:22.730 email us and we'll do the best we can to encourage you and maybe connect 682 00:48:22.730 --> 00:48:25.849 you with others who in your area who are doing there's actually a map on 683 00:48:25.889 --> 00:48:30.480 that website. We can connect with other sidewalk counselors that are not necessarily people 684 00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:31.800 that we know. They've just somehow, I don't know how we got there, 685 00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:35.400 information, put it on a map and you can search your area. 686 00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:38.719 But but those resources, that resources there to encourage you, guys, and 687 00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:43.630 this podcast is here to encourage you, guys, and we do appreciate you 688 00:48:44.389 --> 00:48:54.269 listening to us and we look forward to talking again soon. Give for love, 689 00:48:58.980 --> 00:49:07.420 give me our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me my 690 00:49:07.780 --> 00:49:15.170 life. Nothing's too precious in some you