Feb. 20, 2020

When And How To Talk About Forgiveness

When And How To Talk About Forgiveness

Is there a wrong time and way to talk with an abortion-minded or post-abortive woman about forgiveness? We believe there is and as believers, we should let the scriptures be our guide in subjects like this. So join Vicky and Daniel as they share their...


Is there a wrong time and way to talk with an abortion-minded or post-abortive woman about forgiveness? We believe there is and as believers, we should let the scriptures be our guide in subjects like this. So join Vicky and Daniel as they share their experiences and talk through the subject of forgiveness Biblically.

www.sidewalks4life.com

charlotte.cities4life.org

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me. 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.070 Lord, I believe it or not, there's a right and wrong way 3 00:00:09.230 --> 00:00:13.789 and a right and wrong time to introduce the subject of forgiveness, especially with 4 00:00:13.869 --> 00:00:17.870 an abortion minded woman or with a woman that's just had an abortion. Scripture 5 00:00:17.910 --> 00:00:20.429 has a lot to say about forgiveness. So join us as we talk through 6 00:00:20.510 --> 00:00:34.100 this subject. I felt show Tassis touch your all right. Well, welcome 7 00:00:34.179 --> 00:00:38.850 back to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. We wanted to do an episode 8 00:00:39.530 --> 00:00:45.369 specifically about forgiveness. Forgiveness is an important topic. Right when we're talking about 9 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:50.079 Biblical topics and subjects, forgiveness is one that comes up a lot. It 10 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:54.320 should. We're out on the sidewalks at the abortion clinics and I'm sure those 11 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:57.039 who are in pregnancy centers, those who deal with, you know, pro 12 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.920 life issues, you deal with a topic of forgiveness and people talking about forgiveness 13 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:06.590 and particular people who are post abortive or people who are going to abort, 14 00:01:06.629 --> 00:01:08.390 which is what we're going to talk about from our point of view, on 15 00:01:08.430 --> 00:01:15.950 the sidewalks and the subject of forgiveness, and you know what I'm talking about 16 00:01:15.950 --> 00:01:19.019 specifically is people going into an abortion clinic and say, and you know, 17 00:01:19.260 --> 00:01:22.659 Gods are forgiving God, therefore, I'll go in here and have my abortion, 18 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:26.420 I ask for forgiveness and and I'll be good to go. Yeah, 19 00:01:26.579 --> 00:01:30.939 and so how do you address that biblically and what do you say in those 20 00:01:30.019 --> 00:01:33.969 situations? You know, what do you say when you're in a pregnancy center? 21 00:01:34.090 --> 00:01:38.810 My wife worked in a pregnancy center and still does some and in the 22 00:01:38.890 --> 00:01:42.250 counseling sessions you'll hear the same some of the same things that we hear on 23 00:01:42.409 --> 00:01:45.329 the sidewalk. You know. I Know God's are forgiving God and I might 24 00:01:45.409 --> 00:01:48.040 go in here and I want to have my abortion. He's going to forgive 25 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:49.879 me and they deal with that. and pregnancy centers they deal with that. 26 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:53.040 And you know, maybe in any realm of ministry when you're dealing with people 27 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:59.120 actively involved in in Sinfil behavior and there's this attitude of God's going to forgive 28 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:01.430 me. So how do you address that? I mean, because you have 29 00:02:01.670 --> 00:02:07.590 this biblical truth that God is a God that offers forgiveness, he is a 30 00:02:07.789 --> 00:02:13.909 forgiving God, but then you have folks that take the forgiveness of God and 31 00:02:13.990 --> 00:02:17.099 God's willingness to forgive as a license to sin. Right. How you deal 32 00:02:17.180 --> 00:02:20.659 with that? Yeah, we're going to talk about it. Does it becomes 33 00:02:21.259 --> 00:02:24.340 what we see over and over again. It becomes a rationalization for sin. 34 00:02:24.699 --> 00:02:30.050 God is a forgiving God. Therefore, I can go do really anything and 35 00:02:30.210 --> 00:02:32.250 God will forgive me. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it seems that 36 00:02:32.330 --> 00:02:37.169 the Apostle Paul dealt with the same the same subject, where he says, 37 00:02:37.610 --> 00:02:39.729 you know, one point, you should be sin more so that grace might 38 00:02:39.849 --> 00:02:45.639 abound much more. May It never be. Yeah, God forbid. Yeah, 39 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.120 that we would take that attitude. And it really is dealing with the 40 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:54.199 heart attitude. It's dealing with the attitude of people. His Heart's going to 41 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:58.240 abortion clinics, are doing just in general, and you know, as Christians, 42 00:02:58.629 --> 00:03:01.430 we got to be careful not to have this attitude of just, you 43 00:03:01.509 --> 00:03:06.590 know, we can do it, we want to because God's forgiving and we're 44 00:03:06.629 --> 00:03:09.469 really presuming upon the forgiveness of God. We are. And and is he 45 00:03:09.629 --> 00:03:15.099 required? Is he required to forgive us? Is he required to do anything? 46 00:03:15.340 --> 00:03:17.219 Right, yeah, it tells, like I was telling you, when 47 00:03:17.219 --> 00:03:21.259 we're preparing, and this is something I'll say actually on a regular basis at 48 00:03:21.259 --> 00:03:23.939 the abortion clinics, when I'm talking to DAD's, I'm talking to MOM's, 49 00:03:24.139 --> 00:03:28.409 I'll say, you know what, God is not required to forgive anyone for 50 00:03:28.650 --> 00:03:30.969 anything. Right, God's not beholding to us. It's not like, you 51 00:03:31.050 --> 00:03:36.090 know, God was created for us. You know, and that's the attitude 52 00:03:36.129 --> 00:03:38.889 that a lot of folks have. The gods like this genie in a bottle. 53 00:03:38.009 --> 00:03:40.439 He was created for us to make us feel good. You know, 54 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:45.159 it's it's a lot of what's put forth and you know, and a lot 55 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:47.560 of the Christian books and teachings is out there. Somehow the world revolves around 56 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:53.039 us. Yeah, and you know, the focus is just us, when 57 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:57.830 actually the focus is God. We were made for him. He's not required. 58 00:03:57.949 --> 00:04:00.669 We don't know. It's not like a genie in a bottle or lamp 59 00:04:00.750 --> 00:04:03.710 or whatever. You Rub the thing and you get what you want. Right, 60 00:04:03.789 --> 00:04:10.500 right, you know, God is God. He made everything. He's 61 00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:15.659 not required to do anything for anyone. Right, but we see he's merciful 62 00:04:15.819 --> 00:04:18.660 and he's willing and he does put conditions on us, though. Yeah, 63 00:04:18.740 --> 00:04:25.290 in terms of forgiveness, there are things that are required of us for his 64 00:04:25.970 --> 00:04:31.649 forgiveness. Yeah, and one of the questions that I was thinking about as 65 00:04:31.689 --> 00:04:41.319 I was pondering this topic, is is there unconditional forgiveness from God? And 66 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:45.480 if not, well, what are the conditions? Yeah, for forgiveness? 67 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:48.959 Before we jump into that, let's think about some of the dangers here, 68 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:53.750 okay, because we're talking about in particulars. We're talking about women going into 69 00:04:53.750 --> 00:04:57.470 an abortion Clin they were talking about abortion minded women. And what are some 70 00:04:57.550 --> 00:05:01.069 of the dangers like? Why would we even have a concern about forgiveness? 71 00:05:01.069 --> 00:05:03.870 Because, you know, most people might think you of forgiveness is important, 72 00:05:03.949 --> 00:05:08.379 we need to be forgiving, and we do, and and God's forgiving and 73 00:05:08.740 --> 00:05:11.579 your forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness, and it's important. Blah, Blah. 74 00:05:11.620 --> 00:05:13.980 We don't want to get muddy up the waters and giveness. Okay, I 75 00:05:14.019 --> 00:05:16.259 get that. Yeah, but what are the dangers with us? You know, 76 00:05:16.379 --> 00:05:19.899 maybe maybe a woman's walking into an abortion clinic and and we you know, 77 00:05:20.139 --> 00:05:24.410 God'll forgive you. What would be the danger of doing that? And 78 00:05:24.569 --> 00:05:31.889 that's so dangerous and I so love that question because so many loving Christians think 79 00:05:31.970 --> 00:05:35.800 that the message that we should be calling out at at the sidewalk of an 80 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:41.920 abortion center should be one of love, unconditional love, and forgiveness, and 81 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:46.279 it is used over and over again. You and I have seen it over 82 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.670 and over again. It is used as a motivation, in an excuse to 83 00:05:49.829 --> 00:05:56.790 go and do this very horrific, sinful act of killing their own child. 84 00:05:56.829 --> 00:06:01.750 Yeah, so forgiveness is an absolutely critical message for all of us. Yeah, 85 00:06:01.910 --> 00:06:10.300 all need to understand forgiveness. But the timing in a prolife ministry such 86 00:06:10.339 --> 00:06:14.579 as a on the sidewalk in front of an abortion center, the timing of 87 00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:21.170 when that message of forgiveness is given is really important. So many times I 88 00:06:23.009 --> 00:06:27.810 have been on a sidewalk in front of the abortion center and had a woman 89 00:06:28.009 --> 00:06:31.410 say, I know it's wrong, I know that God doesn't want me to 90 00:06:31.529 --> 00:06:35.560 do this, but I'm going to do it anyway because God is a forgiving 91 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:40.120 God. Yeah, and and I think that we do need to grapple with 92 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:45.759 very specifically. What are some ways that we can counter that statement? Because 93 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:48.110 I've heard it over and over again, I think most of our counselors have. 94 00:06:48.949 --> 00:06:53.269 So it is a great, great question, question, Daniel, that 95 00:06:55.029 --> 00:06:59.790 that there is a danger, yeah, in the in when and how to 96 00:07:00.149 --> 00:07:06.139 present the message of forgiveness and the counter message or other points of confession and 97 00:07:06.300 --> 00:07:10.860 repentance, ycause they're all tied, yeah, together. I mean, you 98 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:14.620 know, the danger in my mind is that, you know, if I've 99 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:18.410 preach the message of forgiveness, and I want to say too early, but 100 00:07:18.490 --> 00:07:24.490 I guess in the wrong timing, that I am part of the justification, 101 00:07:24.569 --> 00:07:27.930 at least what I'm saying is part of the justification, for a person to 102 00:07:27.970 --> 00:07:30.920 go in and kill a child. Yeah, how many times have we had 103 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:35.079 people who are contemplating abortion talk with us for a long time, asking a 104 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:42.120 lot of questions, and really what they're doing is kind of fishing for an 105 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:47.990 excuse for us to say something that excuses them to go and have the abortion, 106 00:07:48.670 --> 00:07:55.629 and sadly, forgiveness can be one of those things. So I'm increasingly 107 00:07:55.750 --> 00:08:01.660 careful about if it's a woman going into an abortion center, I rarely speak 108 00:08:01.699 --> 00:08:07.060 about forgiveness. Yeah, yeah, unless they have made that statement. God 109 00:08:07.220 --> 00:08:09.660 is a forgiving God, so I'm going to go do this and I know 110 00:08:09.819 --> 00:08:13.410 he will forgive me. Yeah, and I know we're going to get into 111 00:08:13.449 --> 00:08:16.329 that. Yeah, I think one of the one of the hangups is, 112 00:08:16.290 --> 00:08:24.449 okay, so the statement God will forgive me actually incorrect, right, because 113 00:08:24.170 --> 00:08:28.879 we're going to talk about that again, because the will part is almost implies 114 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:35.000 that he has to. Now I think the correct statement is God can forgive 115 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.440 you and God is willing to forgive you, but the forgiveness is dependent upon 116 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:45.669 your ability to repent. So you know I've respond with you to men especially, 117 00:08:45.750 --> 00:08:48.149 but also to women that I've talked to you that take that attitude of 118 00:08:48.470 --> 00:08:50.509 well, if I go in here, will God forgive me? And I 119 00:08:50.590 --> 00:08:54.549 actually will respond sometimes with no, he will not forgive you, not if 120 00:08:54.590 --> 00:08:58.620 you have an attitude of I'm going to do this and God is required to 121 00:08:58.659 --> 00:09:01.220 forgive me. God is not required. That's what I would say. I'll 122 00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:05.259 say God is not required to forgive anyone for anything. And if you go 123 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:11.649 in to do something that you know is wrong and you harden your heart against 124 00:09:11.690 --> 00:09:15.490 God and the truth that he's telling you through his people right here, there's 125 00:09:15.490 --> 00:09:18.570 no promise that when you come out of that abortion clinic your Heart's going to 126 00:09:18.610 --> 00:09:22.450 be soft enough to even ask for forgiveness. Because if you harden your heart 127 00:09:22.450 --> 00:09:26.519 against God, and you know the Bible warns against searing your conscience like with 128 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:31.000 a heart the hot iron. Is what the Bible says and it's this callousness 129 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:35.440 that is not going to be softened before God, that is not going to 130 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.269 be asking for forgiveness. You know, you've hardened your heart against God and 131 00:09:39.389 --> 00:09:43.470 you're going to continue to go in hardening and that's that is a scary place 132 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:48.950 to be in. It is and there's lots of verses yet that warn against 133 00:09:50.029 --> 00:09:52.669 that. Yeah, and here's what I want to say to folks who are 134 00:09:52.710 --> 00:09:56.940 listening who maybe right right now thinking God's forgiving and we should be. You 135 00:09:56.019 --> 00:10:00.299 know, we should be gentle and we should be we've talked about that. 136 00:10:00.419 --> 00:10:01.500 We should be we should be kind. We don't need to be mean, 137 00:10:01.659 --> 00:10:05.259 we don't need to be angry, but we have to understand that when we 138 00:10:05.379 --> 00:10:11.610 approach ministry, that we have to approach ministry on God's terms and not based 139 00:10:11.649 --> 00:10:15.610 on what we feel and what we think and the idea that, you know, 140 00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:18.090 we don't want people to be angry with us if we don't tell them 141 00:10:18.129 --> 00:10:20.330 that, yeah, they're going to be forgiven if they have the abortion. 142 00:10:20.769 --> 00:10:24.240 It's not about them, it's not about us, it's not about our feelings, 143 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.240 it's not about how, you know, abortion minded woman might look at 144 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:31.080 us. It's about the Lord. And what does his word says anytime we 145 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:35.269 approach a subject. You know, I could care less what modern society says. 146 00:10:35.309 --> 00:10:39.350 I could care less what modern Christianity says. I could care less what 147 00:10:39.549 --> 00:10:45.029 the latest, you know, you slick TV preacher, says in his latest 148 00:10:45.070 --> 00:10:48.110 book. I could care less. I don't know what Saith the scriptures. 149 00:10:48.509 --> 00:10:52.940 So when we're talking about forgiveness and we're talking about the availability of forgiveness and 150 00:10:54.100 --> 00:10:58.019 the application of forgiveness, what does the Bible say? That's what I want 151 00:10:58.059 --> 00:10:58.899 to know and that's what we all should want to know. Absolutely. And 152 00:10:58.980 --> 00:11:03.740 forgiveness is APPs is is the most, well, I don't know the most. 153 00:11:03.779 --> 00:11:07.690 It's certainly one of the most critical points of salvation. Yeah, and 154 00:11:07.809 --> 00:11:11.809 if you don't get forgiveness right, you're missing a major point a love. 155 00:11:11.970 --> 00:11:18.399 How we find our way back to God. So well, here's some verses, 156 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:24.039 okay, that that I think are valuable verses. When people say I'm 157 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:28.639 going to go do this horrible sin that I know God says I shouldn't do 158 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:33.110 because he forgives first, John, three, six. No one who abides 159 00:11:33.190 --> 00:11:39.110 in him keeps on sinning. No one who keep son sinning has had either 160 00:11:39.149 --> 00:11:43.549 seen him or known him. And here's one of my favorites. I recite 161 00:11:43.590 --> 00:11:48.379 this one a lot at the abortion center. He Brews ten twenty six through 162 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:54.379 seven. For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the 163 00:11:54.539 --> 00:12:01.179 truth, they're no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation 164 00:12:01.340 --> 00:12:05.850 of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. So there's 165 00:12:05.889 --> 00:12:11.250 this in both of those. If we continue in sin, if we keep 166 00:12:11.370 --> 00:12:16.000 on sending if then we don't know him. He's it's very clear we don't 167 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.399 know him. Jesus himself says this. And Luke six hundred and forty six, 168 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.600 why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say? 169 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:28.559 Yeah, so, if he's our Lord, then will obey him. Yeah, 170 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.870 you know, one of the hangouts we might have. You know, 171 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:35.629 and I'm sure folks maybe just listen to those verses and you've read those verses 172 00:12:35.710 --> 00:12:39.190 before and you think, well, you know us. I've sinned after I 173 00:12:39.269 --> 00:12:41.590 became a Christian. And is that verse, especially in First John and the 174 00:12:41.750 --> 00:12:46.860 Hebrews verse? Is that verse discluding me, like I can't be forgiven now 175 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:48.899 because I've sinned after I became a Christian. After I become a Christian, 176 00:12:48.980 --> 00:12:52.179 I supposed to be sinless and ever sin. No, that's not what that 177 00:12:52.379 --> 00:12:54.820 say. You know, as a matter of fact, John and first John 178 00:12:54.860 --> 00:12:58.370 and the first part of chapter two. He says I write these things little 179 00:12:58.409 --> 00:13:03.049 children, that you may that you send not but if any of you does 180 00:13:03.169 --> 00:13:05.409 sin, you haven't had to advocate with the father. Doesn't say when, 181 00:13:05.690 --> 00:13:09.570 by the way, because sin should be the exception and not the rule. 182 00:13:09.769 --> 00:13:13.720 But he does say if anyone since John Acknowledges that a Christian might fall into 183 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:16.799 sin. Right, what he's talking about? He's talking about a lifestyle of 184 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:20.320 sin. He's talking about a pattern of sin, rebellion against God. Keep 185 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:26.750 on sinning, deliberately continue in sin. Those doosis persisting in sense. That's 186 00:13:26.789 --> 00:13:31.590 right, that's right. And so you know, I guess you could play 187 00:13:31.750 --> 00:13:35.429 with trying to figure out, well, when have I sinned enough in this 188 00:13:35.629 --> 00:13:39.269 same area that I'm continuing in sin? And I think you're playing with fire. 189 00:13:39.269 --> 00:13:43.059 Yeah, you're continuing in Senata, in any area. So if someone 190 00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:48.220 is walking into an abortion center has received the knowledge of truth, they know 191 00:13:48.379 --> 00:13:50.100 the truth, they admit it's the truth. They say, I know this 192 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:54.299 is wrong. God would not approve, but I'm going to go do it 193 00:13:54.539 --> 00:14:00.850 anyway. That, to me is a continuing yeah to sin, when really 194 00:14:00.929 --> 00:14:05.730 what we're called upon is to confess our sin and repent. Yeah, and 195 00:14:05.970 --> 00:14:11.080 and and turn from turn. Yes, I knew some years back. Yeah, 196 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:15.600 with Ray Comfort in his ministry. We use his evangelism method. I 197 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.960 guess. To me it's the biblical method of, you know, law to 198 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.159 the proud and grace to the humble. So sharing the law of God. 199 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.669 WHO and people they're guilt before God in their sin. But he gave an 200 00:14:24.750 --> 00:14:28.870 example talking about something along these lines. He gives really good analogies and I 201 00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:31.909 think this one stuck in my mind and he gave the analogy of a father 202 00:14:31.990 --> 00:14:33.950 and son going on a fishing trip. I don't know if you ever heard 203 00:14:33.990 --> 00:14:37.190 this before. There's a father and son there own a fishing trip and they're 204 00:14:37.269 --> 00:14:41.379 camping beside this body of water, Lake or pond or whatever, and the 205 00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:45.059 father tells the son. He says, you know, we're here, we're 206 00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:46.580 having fun, we're going to enjoy our time here together, but I want 207 00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:50.940 to warn you that in that lake or alligators and if you go swim in 208 00:14:52.059 --> 00:14:54.769 that Lake, you're going to be attacked by alligators. To stay out of 209 00:14:54.850 --> 00:14:58.090 that that lake and will be final will have a good time. Well, 210 00:14:58.210 --> 00:15:01.049 the sun, you know, in the progress of time, starts thinking about 211 00:15:01.049 --> 00:15:05.289 okay, wow, he told me they're alligators there. I don't see the 212 00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:07.960 alligators there, and it looks like you'd be fun to try to just swim 213 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.240 across to that that island. And and so the sun jumps in the water 214 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:15.480 and he swims across and sure enough, just as his father warned him, 215 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:18.799 alligators came and attack the young man. He's being taken under. He's about 216 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:22.629 to lose his life and the father goes into the pond to get his son 217 00:15:22.669 --> 00:15:26.190 out and fight the alligators and gets bit himself and, you know, even 218 00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:30.350 loses a limb to rescue a son, drags him back to shore and throws 219 00:15:30.389 --> 00:15:33.870 him up on shore and rescues him in that way. And The Sun looks 220 00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:37.980 round. Thanks father for saving me, but it was really fun out there 221 00:15:39.019 --> 00:15:41.220 in the pond. And he goes and jumps back in the pond. Is 222 00:15:41.299 --> 00:15:45.179 He really understanding the gravity of what his father did for him? is He 223 00:15:45.299 --> 00:15:50.610 really understanding the the nature of his transgression of his father's words. Right, 224 00:15:50.809 --> 00:15:54.889 he's not. It's right person that goes into an abortion clinic that talks about 225 00:15:54.929 --> 00:15:58.129 forgiveness and talks about, you know, God's disposition towards humanity, which is 226 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:02.850 one of love and gray and forgiveness, and that's true. But then they 227 00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:04.840 have this attitude. So I'm going to go and swim with the alligators anyway, 228 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.440 even though I know that you know and whatever, they really don't grasp 229 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:12.600 the the the full scope of what Jesus Christ did on the Cross when they 230 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:15.559 have that attitude, and I would say if they have that attitude, they're 231 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.190 not born of God, they don't know the Lord, they don't know his 232 00:16:18.309 --> 00:16:22.070 forgiveness. Yeah, that's what we're dealing with for the most part, and 233 00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:26.909 that's a great story and I think stories are a way to respond. Jesus 234 00:16:26.990 --> 00:16:30.070 responded that way in parable. So also kind. But I've actually use that 235 00:16:30.190 --> 00:16:33.659 story with a few of the the man that I've spoken to and feel the 236 00:16:33.700 --> 00:16:37.179 ladies I've spoken to over the years at the abortion clinic and just gave them 237 00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:40.860 that and it's something they can connect with. Yeah, I I've done a 238 00:16:40.980 --> 00:16:45.100 similar thing with with just another story where I've said well, okay, you're 239 00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:52.049 correct. God is a forgiving God, and and and so let me ask 240 00:16:52.129 --> 00:16:57.409 you this. If, if you're married and and your husband comes to you 241 00:16:57.809 --> 00:17:03.000 and says, there's a really great looking neighbor just moved in next door and 242 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:08.240 I am going to go have an affair with her, it means nothing. 243 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:12.559 I'm just attracted to her. I'm going to go, I'll be right back, 244 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:18.349 because you are a forgiving woman and you've forgiven me so much in the 245 00:17:18.430 --> 00:17:22.589 past that I know you're going to forgive me for this. So, honey, 246 00:17:22.710 --> 00:17:26.069 just I'll be back in twenty minutes. Yeah, and then I say 247 00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:30.539 to the one women, would this fly with you? It's that unacceptable thing. 248 00:17:30.660 --> 00:17:34.259 Yeah, and they say no, well, no, of course it 249 00:17:34.339 --> 00:17:38.740 wouldn't. You're presuming, you're going and doing something that you know is going 250 00:17:38.779 --> 00:17:47.289 to harm and hurt and disregard the the covenant that you have made with someone 251 00:17:47.329 --> 00:17:52.250 you love. Yeah, and you're presuming on their forgiveness when you come back. 252 00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.529 And when, when you put it in those terms, though, the 253 00:17:56.690 --> 00:18:00.839 women understand. Well, yeah, I know, I that that would not 254 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.880 be okay, but that's what we're asking of God. Yeah, when we 255 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.680 say you are forgiving God, therefore, I am going to break my covenant 256 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:12.309 with you. I'm going to disregard your clear commands thou shall not murder. 257 00:18:12.349 --> 00:18:18.230 Yeah, because I'm going to presume on on your forgiveness. Yeah, and, 258 00:18:18.349 --> 00:18:22.950 like you said earlier, God's not required to forgive. Yeah, and 259 00:18:23.349 --> 00:18:26.380 God's not going to be trifled with. You know, the Bible would in 260 00:18:26.420 --> 00:18:30.339 the biblical principle, whatever you so that's what you'll reap if you so. 261 00:18:30.819 --> 00:18:37.259 Death. Don't expect to reason, you to reap this glorious union with God 262 00:18:37.579 --> 00:18:42.130 and this glorious reception, because death brings about death. And you, you've 263 00:18:42.250 --> 00:18:48.809 rejected God's truth and you rejected the availability of his forgiveness by exchanging that for 264 00:18:48.970 --> 00:18:52.009 really a lie, because that's, you know, just saying that you're sorry 265 00:18:52.210 --> 00:18:56.960 and coming and somehow that's going to bring restoration. That's not forgiveness and that's 266 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:02.359 not restoration and certainly not repentance. Right, and let me let me read 267 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.720 to you a few verses, because you just talked about when you just say 268 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:10.000 you're sorry, which is confession. It's the confession of your sorrow over your 269 00:19:10.029 --> 00:19:12.829 sin. Right. So there are some verses, lots of verses, but 270 00:19:12.910 --> 00:19:15.910 I'll read just a couple and then I want to ask you about, if 271 00:19:15.950 --> 00:19:21.630 you could talk more about that, the difference between confession and repentance and how 272 00:19:21.910 --> 00:19:26.619 how that is all a part of the whole forgiveness. Yeah, the whole 273 00:19:26.660 --> 00:19:30.259 picture, for the whole picture forgiveness. Okay, so Romans ten, nine 274 00:19:30.339 --> 00:19:34.339 to ten. If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised 275 00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:37.059 him from the dead, you will be saved, for it is by our 276 00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:41.769 faith that we are pute right with God. It is by our confession that 277 00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:47.890 we are saved. And some. Thirty two five. Then I confessed my 278 00:19:48.049 --> 00:19:52.119 sins to you. I did not conceal my wrongdoings. I decided to confess 279 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:57.000 them to you and you forgave all my sins. And then the last one. 280 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:00.839 I'll read to you first, John One nine. If we confess our 281 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.960 sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse 282 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.670 us from all righteousness, all and Righteous Oh, I'm sorry, all on 283 00:20:10.750 --> 00:20:15.269 righteousness. So I know you've heard, as I have many times from women 284 00:20:15.309 --> 00:20:19.589 who are at the abortion center. Well, I've said I'm sorry, yeah, 285 00:20:19.589 --> 00:20:23.140 I've told God I'm sorry. Yeah, is that? Does that earn 286 00:20:23.779 --> 00:20:27.619 God's forgiveness. Yeah, well, again there's that attitude of you know, 287 00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:33.940 we don't believe anyone can earn their salvation. Salvation comes through faith in Jesus 288 00:20:33.019 --> 00:20:40.609 Christ. Confession is an important part of repentance and God, you know, 289 00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:45.250 does not reject those who honestly like that Psalm says, you know, I 290 00:20:45.369 --> 00:20:49.039 confess my sins to you. I did not conceal my wrongdoings. Bible says 291 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.680 those that conceal their sins will not prosper, but those that confess and forsake 292 00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:59.880 them will have mercy. So there's this confession and this forsakings and that's where 293 00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:03.470 repentance really comes in, because repentance is not just saying I'm sorry. You 294 00:21:03.589 --> 00:21:07.190 know, we think about you know, repent. You know that word is, 295 00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:11.029 I guess, maybe more of a you know, religious word or people, 296 00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:14.589 you know, kind of look at it. But the Greek word has 297 00:21:14.630 --> 00:21:18.099 some very practical implications. And some people say, well, just repent means 298 00:21:18.220 --> 00:21:22.220 just change your mind. No, not really. It's part. That's part 299 00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:25.619 of it. It's to change your mind, it's for your heart to be 300 00:21:25.700 --> 00:21:29.900 changed. And here's the point. The important point is it's the direction of 301 00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:33.009 your feet changing. It actually is a one hundred and eighty degree turn. 302 00:21:33.089 --> 00:21:37.250 So true repentance, if a mother's going into an abortion clinic, true repentance 303 00:21:37.250 --> 00:21:41.529 is not just confessing that what she did is wrong or what she's about to 304 00:21:41.609 --> 00:21:45.849 do is wrong, but it's actually turning around and leaving the place right and 305 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:51.680 you know, and there is a difference in what we're talking to, and 306 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.759 we'll get to mothers who've already had abortions and forgiveness, because that the message 307 00:21:56.759 --> 00:22:02.230 of forgiveness is an important message for those have already had abortions. Right now, 308 00:22:02.309 --> 00:22:04.789 what we're talking about is sort of a preemptive forgiveness. And is that 309 00:22:04.829 --> 00:22:10.150 available? Is that something that God offers? It's not. You will not 310 00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:12.710 see in the Bible where, you know, someone confesses, you know, 311 00:22:12.750 --> 00:22:17.339 I'm about to go and commit adultery God, but I know you're forgiving, 312 00:22:17.420 --> 00:22:19.859 so you'll forgive me. You don't see God receiving that. No, where 313 00:22:21.019 --> 00:22:23.900 ever in the scriptures. Right you see an attitude like this because you know 314 00:22:23.940 --> 00:22:30.650 maybe shift into a post abortive woman, somebody who's already committed sin. Psalm 315 00:22:30.769 --> 00:22:33.529 fifty one told you I wanted to go here. The Psalm was just, 316 00:22:33.730 --> 00:22:38.170 yeah, powerful Psalm of repentance, Right Confession and repentance of sin. And 317 00:22:38.250 --> 00:22:41.970 this is David after he had sinned with best she send in a gross way. 318 00:22:42.289 --> 00:22:45.559 He'd broken all ten of the Ten Commandments, you know, and this 319 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:52.160 and this one span of time in his life and he's confronting into sin by 320 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.599 Nathan the Prophet, and this psalms I'm fifty one is is a psalm that 321 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.789 flows out of that and he starts it out by saying, have mercy on 322 00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:03.710 me, O God, according to your loving kindness, according to the multitude 323 00:23:03.029 --> 00:23:07.549 of your tender Mercies, blot out my transgressions. He goes on to say 324 00:23:07.589 --> 00:23:11.349 against you, this is the verse, four against you, and you only 325 00:23:11.470 --> 00:23:15.420 have a sinned and done this evil in your sight that you may be found 326 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:18.859 just dust when you speak and blameless when you judge. So He's acknowledging this 327 00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:25.259 important point that when we sin it's not just against people, it's against God 328 00:23:25.539 --> 00:23:30.410 himself. In the sin of abortion, that sin is against that baby for 329 00:23:30.529 --> 00:23:33.329 sure, but more importantly even than that, it's a sin against God. 330 00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:37.490 And David acknowledged here in Psalm fifty one that the sin that he committed with 331 00:23:37.609 --> 00:23:41.680 Bathsheba and the murder of your eye and all of that. Was Not just 332 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:45.119 a sin against your eye, it wasn't just a sin against Bathsheba. Wasn't 333 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.240 just a sin against Israel because he was their king, it was a sin 334 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:52.839 against God himself. Then he goes on movement, moving down to it, 335 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.710 to an important point. Here. We're talking about for confession and forgiveness. 336 00:23:56.750 --> 00:24:02.430 Is this. It says, Old Lord, Open My lips and my mouth 337 00:24:02.549 --> 00:24:06.509 shall flow forth your praise, for you do not desire sacrifice, or else 338 00:24:06.509 --> 00:24:08.670 I would give it, and you do not delight and burnt offerings, the 339 00:24:08.789 --> 00:24:14.660 sacrifices of God or a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. These, 340 00:24:14.779 --> 00:24:19.140 old God, you will not despise broken and college cry Contriarte, so 341 00:24:19.299 --> 00:24:25.369 construction, self righteous and self I know I'm going to go do this. 342 00:24:25.410 --> 00:24:30.009 Yeah, and then I will ask forgiveness. It means I'm a worm. 343 00:24:30.130 --> 00:24:33.609 I. Yeah, contrition is an acknowledgement that we've sinned against a holy God. 344 00:24:34.210 --> 00:24:38.480 Contrition is is is almost the picture of sackcloth and ashes. I mean 345 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:42.480 there are those who in the Old Testament, who put on sackcloth and ashes 346 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:48.039 as an outward sign of contrition in their hearts over the sin of their people 347 00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:52.069 over their own sin and and you, God is not at God doesn't need 348 00:24:52.230 --> 00:24:57.109 us groveling in the dirt and all that's not about that. But God wants 349 00:24:57.150 --> 00:25:00.309 your heart. You know, that's what God has always been after. He's 350 00:25:00.309 --> 00:25:03.990 been after the human heart, and the human heart that is hard and just 351 00:25:04.190 --> 00:25:07.859 basically presumes upon the forgiveness of God, like you're going to forgive me. 352 00:25:08.500 --> 00:25:11.539 Is Not the heart that God is after. He's after a broken, like 353 00:25:11.619 --> 00:25:17.900 it says here, a broken and contrite heart. You will not despise. 354 00:25:17.980 --> 00:25:22.410 That's what God is after. Yeah, broken to yourself and your self desires 355 00:25:22.529 --> 00:25:26.730 and with a heart that is seeking God's desires. And so you're broken because 356 00:25:26.809 --> 00:25:32.769 you see how, Paul, how much you've fallen. Yeah, yeah, 357 00:25:32.769 --> 00:25:36.839 you know the attitude that a woman going into an abortion clineker anyone just in 358 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:38.119 general, that you know, I'm going to go in the Strip club and 359 00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:41.839 you know, God's forgiving God, so he'll forgive me. I'm going to 360 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.160 go and get drunk. I Know God's are forgiving God, so he's going 361 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:48.119 to forgive me. That attitude is not one of contrition. That attitude is 362 00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:51.750 one of hardness, and that's, you know, James Chapter Four. God 363 00:25:51.789 --> 00:25:55.470 resists the proud. That is pride. That is pride, that is bringing 364 00:25:55.589 --> 00:25:57.630 pride into the equation. The Bible Says God resists that. Yeah, he 365 00:25:57.710 --> 00:26:02.710 does not delight in that. I think it's not recognizing that God is a 366 00:26:03.029 --> 00:26:07.579 just God and a wrathful God. Yeah, it shows a grave lack of 367 00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:11.700 the fear of the Lord. Exactly. And and and a lack of the 368 00:26:11.740 --> 00:26:12.980 fear of Lord. Listen, Bible tells us the fear of the Lord is 369 00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:15.779 the beginning of Wisdom. You'll be a why, as person, fear God? 370 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:18.890 Right, right, and and something you said. He doesn't want US 371 00:26:18.890 --> 00:26:26.329 scrabbling. No, but he also doesn't want US continuing down a destructive path. 372 00:26:26.369 --> 00:26:30.690 Yeah, and any path that takes us away from God is a destructive 373 00:26:30.730 --> 00:26:33.440 path. And it's important to know that a third of abortions are repeat abortions. 374 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.400 Yeah, statistically, a third of those women are continuing in sin. 375 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:42.359 This is one of many abortions and if there doesn't come a point, at 376 00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:48.589 at some point, where someone is willing to speak truth about God's forgiveness and 377 00:26:48.789 --> 00:26:53.470 what true repentance looks like, they will continue that path. Yeah. Yeah, 378 00:26:53.470 --> 00:26:57.109 absolutely, took further and that's been one of the burdens on our hearts 379 00:26:57.230 --> 00:27:00.660 as we you know, we deal with this as far as women going into 380 00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:03.980 the abortion clinic with an attitude of you know, I'm going to do this 381 00:27:03.099 --> 00:27:07.220 and God's going to forgive me, and we've already talked about that. But 382 00:27:07.299 --> 00:27:11.299 we also deal with the women who've come out after the abortions and you know, 383 00:27:11.420 --> 00:27:15.579 God has really blessed us with some wonderful people in the afternoon teams because 384 00:27:15.579 --> 00:27:18.089 the way it's set up here in Charlotte, I don't know how it is 385 00:27:18.450 --> 00:27:22.130 in other cities, but basically the abortion patients come in in the morning. 386 00:27:22.410 --> 00:27:25.970 They're typically there by thirty two have their abortions. So we know that we're 387 00:27:26.009 --> 00:27:29.890 reaching those who are coming in for an abortion. In the afternoons, you 388 00:27:29.930 --> 00:27:33.640 know, after the abortionist gets there and sometime after you'll have the people who 389 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.680 have come out who be either taking the abortion people or had a surgical abortion, 390 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.119 and that that is a post aboordive woman directly after having had an abortion. 391 00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:47.750 Is the message of forgiveness important there, or should we take an attitude, 392 00:27:47.750 --> 00:27:51.589 and we might could justify take an attitude of you know, just hey, 393 00:27:51.869 --> 00:27:53.230 you wicked murder or look what you've done. I mean, could we 394 00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:57.190 say that? would be justified in saying that? Possibly, but would that 395 00:27:57.269 --> 00:28:03.339 be helpful? So it's almost like, like you said, the timing can 396 00:28:03.380 --> 00:28:07.500 be really important, the timing in the sense of what's the goal, and 397 00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:14.450 the goal is restoration. Ultimately, the goal is restoration of those people to 398 00:28:14.569 --> 00:28:21.450 God. Yeah, and how do you restore in in the person who's contemplating 399 00:28:21.529 --> 00:28:27.240 abortion but has not yet done it? You restore by really talking about the 400 00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:33.960 severity of that sin against God and you can't do that against your Lord and 401 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:38.880 against that baby. It is wrong, it is evil. Restoration of the 402 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.430 woman who has already done it is, I think, many fold, and 403 00:28:44.430 --> 00:28:48.789 I think we discussed this already a little bit in another podcast. But first 404 00:28:48.789 --> 00:28:53.349 of all, a recognition of sin, which they at first when they come 405 00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:59.339 out the statistically they're going to feel relief. There's not going to be necessarily 406 00:28:59.420 --> 00:29:03.819 that sense of deep sin. So a recognition of sin and then leading them 407 00:29:03.980 --> 00:29:11.650 through the process by which you are restored back to God through confession, repentance 408 00:29:11.170 --> 00:29:15.730 and then faith suggestion of your life. We just practically speaking. Maybe some 409 00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:19.730 folks might ask. Okay, so what do you say to a woman that's 410 00:29:19.769 --> 00:29:22.890 just come out after having had an abortion. Yeah, how do you you 411 00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.759 know, how do you you know, not make a light of what she 412 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:30.799 just died but also all for forgiveness. I mean by you. You know, 413 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:33.839 you've shared your testimony, you've talked about it several times on the podcast 414 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:40.230 about you yourself being post abord. You've had an abortion and you know someone 415 00:29:40.309 --> 00:29:42.390 what goes on and and you can speak to that and certainly you're not going 416 00:29:42.430 --> 00:29:47.190 to speak to that in a way that makes it look like there's no forgiveness, 417 00:29:47.390 --> 00:29:48.309 right. But how do you address that? I mean, yeah, 418 00:29:48.309 --> 00:29:52.589 I'm your standpoint well, and I think it is hard. I we train 419 00:29:52.710 --> 00:29:55.940 our afternoon teams and the first thing I tell them is this is a delicate 420 00:29:56.059 --> 00:29:59.420 balance that you're walking be. You want them to talk to you, you 421 00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:03.380 do want to be able to get the the literature into their hands that has 422 00:30:03.460 --> 00:30:08.490 post aboard of help, but you do want them to recognize that what they 423 00:30:08.650 --> 00:30:12.769 just did was wrong. And the overwhelming majority, I would say, of 424 00:30:12.849 --> 00:30:17.369 them that walk out say it's okay, I'm good. Yeah, but so 425 00:30:17.730 --> 00:30:21.799 typically, and not that I have the answer, but some of the things 426 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:27.440 that I will call out are things like I know that many women deeply regret 427 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:33.880 an abortion. And if you don't feel sorrow right now, you very well 428 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.349 mate down the road and you may need help. Yeah, learning how to 429 00:30:37.509 --> 00:30:44.349 deal with that and I'll sometimes even say deal with this sin for yourself and 430 00:30:44.470 --> 00:30:48.910 before God. Yeah, so it's introducing, I hope gently, the idea 431 00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:55.859 that what you did there, cause it's grief and despair and is sin. 432 00:30:56.180 --> 00:31:03.779 Yeah, and if they say I'm good, I think we've talked about that 433 00:31:03.980 --> 00:31:08.769 in the past, I will often counter with well, I myself thought that 434 00:31:08.890 --> 00:31:12.289 at one point in my life as well, and I'll go into my own 435 00:31:12.369 --> 00:31:18.079 story and how that my immediate response was relief and thinking everything was now going 436 00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:22.240 to be fine. But as it turned out, the older and older I 437 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:27.799 got in the further the more I understood God and the depth of that sin, 438 00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:33.150 the actually the the greater the burden and pain and sorrow. Yeah, 439 00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:38.589 over that was. So that's how I deal with it. Yeah, I'm 440 00:31:38.670 --> 00:31:45.069 not sure what others say and I don't think that there's any magic thing that 441 00:31:45.190 --> 00:31:48.619 you can say, but I think the principle of what you say is don't 442 00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:53.019 gloss over the fact that what happened there was wrong. Yeah, yeah, 443 00:31:53.539 --> 00:31:59.339 you know, timing. You know, people might say timing is not that 444 00:31:59.500 --> 00:32:02.450 important. Even your volume actually can be important. You there's there's a proverb. 445 00:32:04.410 --> 00:32:06.769 Forget exactly where it's at, but I promise it's in there. Okay. 446 00:32:06.849 --> 00:32:10.130 They basically says if you bless your brother loudly early in the morning, 447 00:32:10.410 --> 00:32:15.289 it will be received as a curse. So there is a certain timing that. 448 00:32:15.490 --> 00:32:16.640 What is that telling us? Well, timing early in the morning. 449 00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:21.960 Volume actually can matter. Your tone of voice can matter, you know, 450 00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.279 whenever the words maybe necessarily don't matter so much. They do matter. I'm 451 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:30.670 not saying they don't in the Bible certainly acknowledges correct words, words that are 452 00:32:30.910 --> 00:32:36.950 true to the word, are important. But your timing in your volume does 453 00:32:37.029 --> 00:32:43.109 matter. And there's a scripture. It's a messionic prophecy scripture. It says, 454 00:32:43.230 --> 00:32:46.099 speaking of Jesus, that he won't quench a smoking flax nor break a 455 00:32:46.220 --> 00:32:50.819 bruised read right. Well, that's saying is you know, basically those are 456 00:32:50.819 --> 00:32:53.579 already broken. Jesus is not going to break them even further. You Know 457 00:32:53.740 --> 00:32:57.579 God, God doesn't kick people when they're down. A matter of fact, 458 00:32:57.619 --> 00:33:00.529 the Bible tells us when we're down as when God is willing to raise us 459 00:33:00.529 --> 00:33:02.450 up. Hum will yourself under the mighty hand of God and he will lift 460 00:33:02.490 --> 00:33:05.769 you up. And so there's a certain sense that, you know, I've 461 00:33:05.769 --> 00:33:07.089 encounted, and that was certainly have encountered, a lot of women that come 462 00:33:07.130 --> 00:33:10.170 out they're just are getting proud. And how do you respond to that? 463 00:33:10.250 --> 00:33:14.279 Typically, you know what, I'll just bow my head and pray for them 464 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:17.319 because typically, if they're coming out and they have an attitude of just bitterness 465 00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:21.720 and against me, because what it is is really the conviction they feel in 466 00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:23.920 themselves, that I'll might, I might steing them with a little bit of 467 00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:27.509 truth and say, you know what, you just killed your child. You 468 00:33:27.549 --> 00:33:30.109 should turn to the Lord. I might say something like that, but I'm 469 00:33:30.109 --> 00:33:31.990 not going to engage in some lengthy conversation with him. Typically, I'm going 470 00:33:31.990 --> 00:33:35.750 to pray for the Holy Spirit to do his work in their heart. But 471 00:33:35.829 --> 00:33:38.829 I haven't count I mean just it was goupled days ago. It was one 472 00:33:38.829 --> 00:33:42.380 of those days, you know, sometimes things just come in waves, and 473 00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:45.700 it was one of those days where we had like three women in a row 474 00:33:45.220 --> 00:33:49.619 that came out of the abortion clinic with I mean just ball it. They 475 00:33:49.660 --> 00:33:52.180 were just crying and their hearts were broken over what they had just done. 476 00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:54.730 Am I going to look at her and I'm going to say, look what 477 00:33:54.849 --> 00:33:59.490 you just did, you wicked center. No, she's already broken, right, 478 00:33:59.569 --> 00:34:04.130 she already acknowledges what she's done. She's totally ripe for the message of 479 00:34:04.210 --> 00:34:07.809 forgiveness. Yeah, that's the person then, that she needs to know. 480 00:34:08.090 --> 00:34:13.199 She's recognized her yeah, she's recognized that. It's broken her heart and, 481 00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.480 and I would say that very directly, I can see that your heart is 482 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:19.800 broken. I am so sorry. Can we talk about there is help, 483 00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:22.079 there is hope, there is forgiveness. Yeah, can I share with you 484 00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:24.550 how you can find that? I mean one of the things I'm not going 485 00:34:24.590 --> 00:34:28.309 to say those. I'm not going to say you don't need to cry, 486 00:34:28.389 --> 00:34:30.590 you're forgiven, because that's not true. No, nice to cry. She 487 00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:34.909 needs to weep, and that to me is such a positive sign that she 488 00:34:35.150 --> 00:34:42.300 recognizes. And the danger there is you don't want someone becoming suicidal. Yeah, 489 00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:45.380 and and knowing from my own experience, you can it. It's horrific. 490 00:34:45.460 --> 00:34:50.340 When you recognize the depth of what you've done, it can take you 491 00:34:50.619 --> 00:34:53.530 over the edge. Yeah, so. So that message of forgiveness then, 492 00:34:53.769 --> 00:34:58.730 which is why the afternoon teams for us in our ministry is so important. 493 00:34:59.050 --> 00:35:01.690 That, and it's important for others who were doing sidewall counselor working in a 494 00:35:01.730 --> 00:35:07.360 pregnancy center understand this these points too. That's true. That's true because at 495 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:12.840 that point the message of forgiveness made very well save that woman's life. Yeah, 496 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:19.159 and also, rather than having her turn inward with that pain and to 497 00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:25.989 anger or self destruction or bitterness towards God, hopefully the the opposite will happen, 498 00:35:27.070 --> 00:35:30.750 that she will then release that pain and use it for God's glory. 499 00:35:30.909 --> 00:35:36.539 And that's what that's again, that restoration. The goal is restoration. Yeah, 500 00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:38.219 one of the things I say oftentimes is, you know, we don't 501 00:35:38.260 --> 00:35:44.179 begin with God until we've come to the end of ourselves, and sometimes it's 502 00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:49.500 something like doing something as horrible as an abortion that will bring us to the 503 00:35:49.539 --> 00:35:52.489 end of ourselves to show us, you know what, I'm not good right, 504 00:35:52.650 --> 00:35:57.449 I am not right, I am not going in the right direction and 505 00:35:57.570 --> 00:36:01.289 I need someone to rescue me. And so hopefully in that situation there's a 506 00:36:01.449 --> 00:36:07.360 gospel voice, there's a there's a proclaimer of truth on that sidewalk, at 507 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:10.119 that pregnancy center, at that you know whatever you know. A lot of 508 00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:15.239 times God will break post aboordive women in a church service when somebody's preaching about 509 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:20.710 abortion and they're broken and hopefully there's somebody there that will offer the message of 510 00:36:20.989 --> 00:36:27.150 forgiveness and rest ration in light of that sin and bring the hope that comes 511 00:36:27.389 --> 00:36:30.469 in the name of Jesus, not just glossing over it again, not just 512 00:36:30.550 --> 00:36:32.940 say well, you're forgiven, so it's okay. It's not okay. Yeah, 513 00:36:34.219 --> 00:36:37.739 but if you'll turn to the Lord Jesus. Now I've said this quite 514 00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:39.260 a few times. I member one lady. I may even shared this on 515 00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:42.820 the podcast before. May Have not, but there was. It's a couple 516 00:36:42.820 --> 00:36:45.300 of years ago. This young lady was coming out of the abortion clinic parking 517 00:36:45.380 --> 00:36:49.690 lot and she stopped in the driveway and I'm setting up, I'm actually taken 518 00:36:49.769 --> 00:36:52.849 down the sound system and putting it away, and she stops in the driveway 519 00:36:52.889 --> 00:36:55.170 and I hander one of our brochures, and that's an important point. Guys 520 00:36:55.210 --> 00:37:00.329 that have some kind of information. You have one that's called hope and healing 521 00:37:00.849 --> 00:37:04.039 and it has your testimony in and it's got the Gospel in there and it's 522 00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:07.360 talks about some of the risks and things associated with abortion and some of the 523 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.480 things watch out for anyway, and has healing resources on it exactly. Yeah, 524 00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:14.440 local ministries, thing for MAG with and whatever. And so I handed 525 00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:17.110 her brochure and and she said, you know, I wish I would have 526 00:37:17.230 --> 00:37:20.789 listened to the truth you guys are telling me out here, as I was 527 00:37:20.869 --> 00:37:22.469 going in that she was back for a follow up, a point as I 528 00:37:22.469 --> 00:37:25.030 wish I would listen to the truth you guys are telling me out here instead 529 00:37:25.030 --> 00:37:28.630 of the lies they were telling me inside of there. And she says, 530 00:37:28.789 --> 00:37:30.860 I know God is a forgiving God, but I don't think he can ever 531 00:37:30.940 --> 00:37:34.619 forgive me for this. And I go right to first John. You know, 532 00:37:34.659 --> 00:37:37.300 the Bible says if we confess our sins, he's faithful and just forgive 533 00:37:37.340 --> 00:37:39.460 us our sins and it cleanse us from all in righteousness. And I'm not 534 00:37:39.500 --> 00:37:43.179 saying that just to all you have to do is say you're sorry and a 535 00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:46.530 knowledge. No, I'm saying that to say there is an availability of God, 536 00:37:46.690 --> 00:37:50.369 by His mercy, to forgive if you'll confess, as you were sin, 537 00:37:50.449 --> 00:37:52.050 if you will acknowledge and I went right for us. And you know, 538 00:37:52.090 --> 00:37:55.329 you've got to acknowledge that you've sinned against God and when you took that 539 00:37:55.409 --> 00:37:59.760 baby's life, you didn't just make a mistake, you didn't just do something 540 00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:01.719 to her. You and I I'm using a very in this conversation, a 541 00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:05.639 very soft tone, or not right. You know, I'm not, you 542 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:07.920 know, condemning her in the sense. You know, I'm not being, 543 00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:10.639 you know, hard nosed in that sense, but I'm pointing to the Scripture 544 00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:15.349 and I'm pointing her to the Savior, and that's what we need to do. 545 00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:17.869 We've got a point people to the savior. We're not their savior, 546 00:38:19.269 --> 00:38:22.269 and so our first you know, we don't need to just pointed to some 547 00:38:22.349 --> 00:38:24.550 ministry. You want any just point him to some whatever. We need to 548 00:38:24.670 --> 00:38:29.300 point to the savior turned to the Lord, Jesus. Yeah, it turned 549 00:38:29.420 --> 00:38:35.380 Jesus and he is willing to forgive and to save all those who will truly 550 00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:37.619 turn to him. That's the message of the Gods and that is truly the 551 00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:44.250 only, the only real hope and healing that any post aboard of woman is 552 00:38:44.329 --> 00:38:47.530 going to find. They it is, you know, as probably as horrific 553 00:38:47.610 --> 00:38:52.409 as sin as a woman can do. Yeah, destroy her own child. 554 00:38:52.530 --> 00:38:55.280 And there is, there is never going to be in this world a way 555 00:38:55.320 --> 00:39:01.400 that you can rationalize that kind of pain. Yeah, away, but but 556 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:07.360 Jesus can heal your heart. Yeah, can. Can even use that pain 557 00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:14.269 to to further his kingdom. Yeah. So that's a message that is critical 558 00:39:14.429 --> 00:39:20.750 for them to hear. And for forgiveness is is just essential. Yeah, 559 00:39:21.510 --> 00:39:23.900 absolutely, you know, and it's a message just like the message of the 560 00:39:24.099 --> 00:39:30.980 value of human life. The the message of forgiveness, healing and restoration, 561 00:39:30.219 --> 00:39:35.820 salvation that comes to Jesus Christ is the message that we need to be bringing 562 00:39:35.860 --> 00:39:38.730 in this realm. That's why this podcast is Gospel centered. Pro Life is 563 00:39:38.809 --> 00:39:43.530 because it's not just about saving the lives of babies. I don't say just 564 00:39:43.929 --> 00:39:47.369 to minimize that, because that's massively important, but it's also about bringing the 565 00:39:47.489 --> 00:39:52.960 Gospel, bringing the Gospel to these men and women at the abortion clinics. 566 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:57.440 Hopefully their heart is softened by the Gospel before they go in and they choose 567 00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.760 life for their baby based on their acceptance of the Gospel. We've seen that 568 00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:06.039 happen. Yeah, but if they've had the abortion and they come out our 569 00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:08.750 prayers that their heart is softened by the Gospel rather than hardened by their sin, 570 00:40:08.909 --> 00:40:14.070 because that can happen. It's softened by the Gospel and they turn to 571 00:40:14.150 --> 00:40:19.150 the Lord Jesus, because we're there bringing this message of healing, restoration, 572 00:40:19.349 --> 00:40:23.500 forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ and you. That's our job as Christians to 573 00:40:23.659 --> 00:40:29.099 bring Christ in, especially to these very dark places. So you know, 574 00:40:29.179 --> 00:40:30.860 with that I think we'll wrap this thing up. We appreciate those who have 575 00:40:31.099 --> 00:40:36.769 listened and hopefully this podcast has been a blessing to you and you know, 576 00:40:36.849 --> 00:40:39.610 we'd love to hear any suggestions you have for other podcasts. We'd love to 577 00:40:39.650 --> 00:40:43.610 hear maybe just some feedback on this podcast. Is there a point that we 578 00:40:43.969 --> 00:40:45.489 that we just kind of glazed over and you want to hear a little more 579 00:40:45.489 --> 00:40:49.769 about? We'd certainly love to get into that a little deeper. Is there 580 00:40:49.889 --> 00:40:52.119 something you know someone you'd like for us to interview on the podcast? We'd 581 00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:54.360 love to do that. We'd like to hear back from you, so you 582 00:40:54.519 --> 00:41:00.199 email me. Deep Parks at cities for lifecom Vicky At v Cossi orgcom. 583 00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:02.199 Share these podcasts. You can share them on facebook you can share them, 584 00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.670 you know, I guess on twitter. Whatever. You get the link and 585 00:41:05.989 --> 00:41:10.670 and share that and leave us some feedback in the reviews on apple podcasts and 586 00:41:12.030 --> 00:41:15.070 on Google podcasts and other podcast services. There's a place where you can add 587 00:41:15.110 --> 00:41:17.699 a review and you can, you know, let us know how we're doing. 588 00:41:19.099 --> 00:41:22.659 But we do appreciate you, guys, for listening and a will. 589 00:41:22.179 --> 00:41:30.460 We'll talk to you guys real soon. God bless give me out left for 590 00:41:30.699 --> 00:41:43.929 love, give me our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me 591 00:41:44.090 --> 00:41:51.840 my life. Nothing's too precious and some that you