When And How To Talk About Forgiveness

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.759I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me.200:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.070Lord, I believe it or not, there's a right and wrong way300:00:09.230 --> 00:00:13.789and a right and wrong time tointroduce the subject of forgiveness, especially with400:00:13.869 --> 00:00:17.870an abortion minded woman or with awoman that's just had an abortion. Scripture500:00:17.910 --> 00:00:20.429has a lot to say about forgiveness. So join us as we talk through600:00:20.510 --> 00:00:34.100this subject. I felt show Tassistouch your all right. Well, welcome700:00:34.179 --> 00:00:38.850back to the Gospel Center pro lifepodcast. We wanted to do an episode800:00:39.530 --> 00:00:45.369specifically about forgiveness. Forgiveness is animportant topic. Right when we're talking about900:00:46.490 --> 00:00:50.079Biblical topics and subjects, forgiveness isone that comes up a lot. It1000:00:50.320 --> 00:00:54.320should. We're out on the sidewalksat the abortion clinics and I'm sure those1100:00:54.320 --> 00:00:57.039who are in pregnancy centers, thosewho deal with, you know, pro1200:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.920life issues, you deal with atopic of forgiveness and people talking about forgiveness1300:01:00.119 --> 00:01:06.590and particular people who are post abortiveor people who are going to abort,1400:01:06.629 --> 00:01:08.390which is what we're going to talkabout from our point of view, on1500:01:08.430 --> 00:01:15.950the sidewalks and the subject of forgiveness, and you know what I'm talking about1600:01:15.950 --> 00:01:19.019specifically is people going into an abortionclinic and say, and you know,1700:01:19.260 --> 00:01:22.659Gods are forgiving God, therefore,I'll go in here and have my abortion,1800:01:23.180 --> 00:01:26.420I ask for forgiveness and and I'llbe good to go. Yeah,1900:01:26.579 --> 00:01:30.939and so how do you address thatbiblically and what do you say in those2000:01:30.019 --> 00:01:33.969situations? You know, what doyou say when you're in a pregnancy center?2100:01:34.090 --> 00:01:38.810My wife worked in a pregnancy centerand still does some and in the2200:01:38.890 --> 00:01:42.250counseling sessions you'll hear the same someof the same things that we hear on2300:01:42.409 --> 00:01:45.329the sidewalk. You know. IKnow God's are forgiving God and I might2400:01:45.409 --> 00:01:48.040go in here and I want tohave my abortion. He's going to forgive2500:01:48.079 --> 00:01:49.879me and they deal with that.and pregnancy centers they deal with that.2600:01:49.959 --> 00:01:53.040And you know, maybe in anyrealm of ministry when you're dealing with people2700:01:53.079 --> 00:01:59.120actively involved in in Sinfil behavior andthere's this attitude of God's going to forgive2800:01:59.159 --> 00:02:01.430me. So how do you addressthat? I mean, because you have2900:02:01.670 --> 00:02:07.590this biblical truth that God is aGod that offers forgiveness, he is a3000:02:07.789 --> 00:02:13.909forgiving God, but then you havefolks that take the forgiveness of God and3100:02:13.990 --> 00:02:17.099God's willingness to forgive as a licenseto sin. Right. How you deal3200:02:17.180 --> 00:02:20.659with that? Yeah, we're goingto talk about it. Does it becomes3300:02:21.259 --> 00:02:24.340what we see over and over again. It becomes a rationalization for sin.3400:02:24.699 --> 00:02:30.050God is a forgiving God. Therefore, I can go do really anything and3500:02:30.210 --> 00:02:32.250God will forgive me. Yeah.Yeah, you know, it seems that3600:02:32.330 --> 00:02:37.169the Apostle Paul dealt with the samethe same subject, where he says,3700:02:37.610 --> 00:02:39.729you know, one point, youshould be sin more so that grace might3800:02:39.849 --> 00:02:45.639abound much more. May It neverbe. Yeah, God forbid. Yeah,3900:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.120that we would take that attitude.And it really is dealing with the4000:02:49.280 --> 00:02:54.199heart attitude. It's dealing with theattitude of people. His Heart's going to4100:02:54.280 --> 00:02:58.240abortion clinics, are doing just ingeneral, and you know, as Christians,4200:02:58.629 --> 00:03:01.430we got to be careful not tohave this attitude of just, you4300:03:01.509 --> 00:03:06.590know, we can do it,we want to because God's forgiving and we're4400:03:06.629 --> 00:03:09.469really presuming upon the forgiveness of God. We are. And and is he4500:03:09.629 --> 00:03:15.099required? Is he required to forgiveus? Is he required to do anything?4600:03:15.340 --> 00:03:17.219Right, yeah, it tells,like I was telling you, when4700:03:17.219 --> 00:03:21.259we're preparing, and this is somethingI'll say actually on a regular basis at4800:03:21.259 --> 00:03:23.939the abortion clinics, when I'm talkingto DAD's, I'm talking to MOM's,4900:03:24.139 --> 00:03:28.409I'll say, you know what,God is not required to forgive anyone for5000:03:28.650 --> 00:03:30.969anything. Right, God's not beholdingto us. It's not like, you5100:03:31.050 --> 00:03:36.090know, God was created for us. You know, and that's the attitude5200:03:36.129 --> 00:03:38.889that a lot of folks have.The gods like this genie in a bottle.5300:03:38.009 --> 00:03:40.439He was created for us to makeus feel good. You know,5400:03:40.680 --> 00:03:45.159it's it's a lot of what's putforth and you know, and a lot5500:03:45.159 --> 00:03:47.560of the Christian books and teachings isout there. Somehow the world revolves around5600:03:47.599 --> 00:03:53.039us. Yeah, and you know, the focus is just us, when5700:03:53.159 --> 00:03:57.830actually the focus is God. Wewere made for him. He's not required.5800:03:57.949 --> 00:04:00.669We don't know. It's not likea genie in a bottle or lamp5900:04:00.750 --> 00:04:03.710or whatever. You Rub the thingand you get what you want. Right,6000:04:03.789 --> 00:04:10.500right, you know, God isGod. He made everything. He's6100:04:10.580 --> 00:04:15.659not required to do anything for anyone. Right, but we see he's merciful6200:04:15.819 --> 00:04:18.660and he's willing and he does putconditions on us, though. Yeah,6300:04:18.740 --> 00:04:25.290in terms of forgiveness, there arethings that are required of us for his6400:04:25.970 --> 00:04:31.649forgiveness. Yeah, and one ofthe questions that I was thinking about as6500:04:31.689 --> 00:04:41.319I was pondering this topic, isis there unconditional forgiveness from God? And6600:04:41.439 --> 00:04:45.480if not, well, what arethe conditions? Yeah, for forgiveness?6700:04:46.959 --> 00:04:48.959Before we jump into that, let'sthink about some of the dangers here,6800:04:49.160 --> 00:04:53.750okay, because we're talking about inparticulars. We're talking about women going into6900:04:53.750 --> 00:04:57.470an abortion Clin they were talking aboutabortion minded women. And what are some7000:04:57.550 --> 00:05:01.069of the dangers like? Why wouldwe even have a concern about forgiveness?7100:05:01.069 --> 00:05:03.870Because, you know, most peoplemight think you of forgiveness is important,7200:05:03.949 --> 00:05:08.379we need to be forgiving, andwe do, and and God's forgiving and7300:05:08.740 --> 00:05:11.579your forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness,and it's important. Blah, Blah.7400:05:11.620 --> 00:05:13.980We don't want to get muddy upthe waters and giveness. Okay, I7500:05:14.019 --> 00:05:16.259get that. Yeah, but whatare the dangers with us? You know,7600:05:16.379 --> 00:05:19.899maybe maybe a woman's walking into anabortion clinic and and we you know,7700:05:20.139 --> 00:05:24.410God'll forgive you. What would bethe danger of doing that? And7800:05:24.569 --> 00:05:31.889that's so dangerous and I so lovethat question because so many loving Christians think7900:05:31.970 --> 00:05:35.800that the message that we should becalling out at at the sidewalk of an8000:05:35.800 --> 00:05:41.920abortion center should be one of love, unconditional love, and forgiveness, and8100:05:42.279 --> 00:05:46.279it is used over and over again. You and I have seen it over8200:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.670and over again. It is usedas a motivation, in an excuse to8300:05:49.829 --> 00:05:56.790go and do this very horrific,sinful act of killing their own child.8400:05:56.829 --> 00:06:01.750Yeah, so forgiveness is an absolutelycritical message for all of us. Yeah,8500:06:01.910 --> 00:06:10.300all need to understand forgiveness. Butthe timing in a prolife ministry such8600:06:10.339 --> 00:06:14.579as a on the sidewalk in frontof an abortion center, the timing of8700:06:14.699 --> 00:06:21.170when that message of forgiveness is givenis really important. So many times I8800:06:23.009 --> 00:06:27.810have been on a sidewalk in frontof the abortion center and had a woman8900:06:28.009 --> 00:06:31.410say, I know it's wrong,I know that God doesn't want me to9000:06:31.529 --> 00:06:35.560do this, but I'm going todo it anyway because God is a forgiving9100:06:35.720 --> 00:06:40.120God. Yeah, and and Ithink that we do need to grapple with9200:06:41.000 --> 00:06:45.759very specifically. What are some waysthat we can counter that statement? Because9300:06:45.800 --> 00:06:48.110I've heard it over and over again, I think most of our counselors have.9400:06:48.949 --> 00:06:53.269So it is a great, greatquestion, question, Daniel, that9500:06:55.029 --> 00:06:59.790that there is a danger, yeah, in the in when and how to9600:07:00.149 --> 00:07:06.139present the message of forgiveness and thecounter message or other points of confession and9700:07:06.300 --> 00:07:10.860repentance, ycause they're all tied,yeah, together. I mean, you9800:07:10.980 --> 00:07:14.620know, the danger in my mindis that, you know, if I've9900:07:14.660 --> 00:07:18.410preach the message of forgiveness, andI want to say too early, but10000:07:18.490 --> 00:07:24.490I guess in the wrong timing,that I am part of the justification,10100:07:24.569 --> 00:07:27.930at least what I'm saying is partof the justification, for a person to10200:07:27.970 --> 00:07:30.920go in and kill a child.Yeah, how many times have we had10300:07:30.439 --> 00:07:35.079people who are contemplating abortion talk withus for a long time, asking a10400:07:35.199 --> 00:07:42.120lot of questions, and really whatthey're doing is kind of fishing for an10500:07:42.240 --> 00:07:47.990excuse for us to say something thatexcuses them to go and have the abortion,10600:07:48.670 --> 00:07:55.629and sadly, forgiveness can be oneof those things. So I'm increasingly10700:07:55.750 --> 00:08:01.660careful about if it's a woman goinginto an abortion center, I rarely speak10800:08:01.699 --> 00:08:07.060about forgiveness. Yeah, yeah,unless they have made that statement. God10900:08:07.220 --> 00:08:09.660is a forgiving God, so I'mgoing to go do this and I know11000:08:09.819 --> 00:08:13.410he will forgive me. Yeah,and I know we're going to get into11100:08:13.449 --> 00:08:16.329that. Yeah, I think oneof the one of the hangups is,11200:08:16.290 --> 00:08:24.449okay, so the statement God willforgive me actually incorrect, right, because11300:08:24.170 --> 00:08:28.879we're going to talk about that again, because the will part is almost implies11400:08:28.920 --> 00:08:35.000that he has to. Now Ithink the correct statement is God can forgive11500:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.440you and God is willing to forgiveyou, but the forgiveness is dependent upon11600:08:39.879 --> 00:08:45.669your ability to repent. So youknow I've respond with you to men especially,11700:08:45.750 --> 00:08:48.149but also to women that I've talkedto you that take that attitude of11800:08:48.470 --> 00:08:50.509well, if I go in here, will God forgive me? And I11900:08:50.590 --> 00:08:54.549actually will respond sometimes with no,he will not forgive you, not if12000:08:54.590 --> 00:08:58.620you have an attitude of I'm goingto do this and God is required to12100:08:58.659 --> 00:09:01.220forgive me. God is not required. That's what I would say. I'll12200:09:01.220 --> 00:09:05.259say God is not required to forgiveanyone for anything. And if you go12300:09:05.460 --> 00:09:11.649in to do something that you knowis wrong and you harden your heart against12400:09:11.690 --> 00:09:15.490God and the truth that he's tellingyou through his people right here, there's12500:09:15.490 --> 00:09:18.570no promise that when you come outof that abortion clinic your Heart's going to12600:09:18.610 --> 00:09:22.450be soft enough to even ask forforgiveness. Because if you harden your heart12700:09:22.450 --> 00:09:26.519against God, and you know theBible warns against searing your conscience like with12800:09:26.639 --> 00:09:31.000a heart the hot iron. Iswhat the Bible says and it's this callousness12900:09:31.759 --> 00:09:35.440that is not going to be softenedbefore God, that is not going to13000:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.269be asking for forgiveness. You know, you've hardened your heart against God and13100:09:39.389 --> 00:09:43.470you're going to continue to go inhardening and that's that is a scary place13200:09:43.590 --> 00:09:48.950to be in. It is andthere's lots of verses yet that warn against13300:09:50.029 --> 00:09:52.669that. Yeah, and here's whatI want to say to folks who are13400:09:52.710 --> 00:09:56.940listening who maybe right right now thinkingGod's forgiving and we should be. You13500:09:56.019 --> 00:10:00.299know, we should be gentle andwe should be we've talked about that.13600:10:00.419 --> 00:10:01.500We should be we should be kind. We don't need to be mean,13700:10:01.659 --> 00:10:05.259we don't need to be angry,but we have to understand that when we13800:10:05.379 --> 00:10:11.610approach ministry, that we have toapproach ministry on God's terms and not based13900:10:11.649 --> 00:10:15.610on what we feel and what wethink and the idea that, you know,14000:10:15.690 --> 00:10:18.090we don't want people to be angrywith us if we don't tell them14100:10:18.129 --> 00:10:20.330that, yeah, they're going tobe forgiven if they have the abortion.14200:10:20.769 --> 00:10:24.240It's not about them, it's notabout us, it's not about our feelings,14300:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.240it's not about how, you know, abortion minded woman might look at14400:10:26.240 --> 00:10:31.080us. It's about the Lord.And what does his word says anytime we14500:10:31.240 --> 00:10:35.269approach a subject. You know,I could care less what modern society says.14600:10:35.309 --> 00:10:39.350I could care less what modern Christianitysays. I could care less what14700:10:39.549 --> 00:10:45.029the latest, you know, youslick TV preacher, says in his latest14800:10:45.070 --> 00:10:48.110book. I could care less.I don't know what Saith the scriptures.14900:10:48.509 --> 00:10:52.940So when we're talking about forgiveness andwe're talking about the availability of forgiveness and15000:10:54.100 --> 00:10:58.019the application of forgiveness, what doesthe Bible say? That's what I want15100:10:58.059 --> 00:10:58.899to know and that's what we allshould want to know. Absolutely. And15200:10:58.980 --> 00:11:03.740forgiveness is APPs is is the most, well, I don't know the most.15300:11:03.779 --> 00:11:07.690It's certainly one of the most criticalpoints of salvation. Yeah, and15400:11:07.809 --> 00:11:11.809if you don't get forgiveness right,you're missing a major point a love.15500:11:11.970 --> 00:11:18.399How we find our way back toGod. So well, here's some verses,15600:11:18.559 --> 00:11:24.039okay, that that I think arevaluable verses. When people say I'm15700:11:24.039 --> 00:11:28.639going to go do this horrible sinthat I know God says I shouldn't do15800:11:28.159 --> 00:11:33.110because he forgives first, John,three, six. No one who abides15900:11:33.190 --> 00:11:39.110in him keeps on sinning. Noone who keep son sinning has had either16000:11:39.149 --> 00:11:43.549seen him or known him. Andhere's one of my favorites. I recite16100:11:43.590 --> 00:11:48.379this one a lot at the abortioncenter. He Brews ten twenty six through16200:11:48.460 --> 00:11:54.379seven. For if we go onsinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the16300:11:54.539 --> 00:12:01.179truth, they're no longer remains asacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation16400:12:01.340 --> 00:12:05.850of judgment and a fury of firethat will consume the adversaries. So there's16500:12:05.889 --> 00:12:11.250this in both of those. Ifwe continue in sin, if we keep16600:12:11.370 --> 00:12:16.000on sending if then we don't knowhim. He's it's very clear we don't16700:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.399know him. Jesus himself says this. And Luke six hundred and forty six,16800:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.600why do you call me Lord Lordand not do what I say?16900:12:24.960 --> 00:12:28.559Yeah, so, if he's ourLord, then will obey him. Yeah,17000:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.870you know, one of the hangoutswe might have. You know,17100:12:31.029 --> 00:12:35.629and I'm sure folks maybe just listento those verses and you've read those verses17200:12:35.710 --> 00:12:39.190before and you think, well,you know us. I've sinned after I17300:12:39.269 --> 00:12:41.590became a Christian. And is thatverse, especially in First John and the17400:12:41.750 --> 00:12:46.860Hebrews verse? Is that verse discludingme, like I can't be forgiven now17500:12:46.940 --> 00:12:48.899because I've sinned after I became aChristian. After I become a Christian,17600:12:48.980 --> 00:12:52.179I supposed to be sinless and eversin. No, that's not what that17700:12:52.379 --> 00:12:54.820say. You know, as amatter of fact, John and first John17800:12:54.860 --> 00:12:58.370and the first part of chapter two. He says I write these things little17900:12:58.409 --> 00:13:03.049children, that you may that yousend not but if any of you does18000:13:03.169 --> 00:13:05.409sin, you haven't had to advocatewith the father. Doesn't say when,18100:13:05.690 --> 00:13:09.570by the way, because sin shouldbe the exception and not the rule.18200:13:09.769 --> 00:13:13.720But he does say if anyone sinceJohn Acknowledges that a Christian might fall into18300:13:13.759 --> 00:13:16.799sin. Right, what he's talkingabout? He's talking about a lifestyle of18400:13:16.879 --> 00:13:20.320sin. He's talking about a patternof sin, rebellion against God. Keep18500:13:20.480 --> 00:13:26.750on sinning, deliberately continue in sin. Those doosis persisting in sense. That's18600:13:26.789 --> 00:13:31.590right, that's right. And soyou know, I guess you could play18700:13:31.750 --> 00:13:35.429with trying to figure out, well, when have I sinned enough in this18800:13:35.629 --> 00:13:39.269same area that I'm continuing in sin? And I think you're playing with fire.18900:13:39.269 --> 00:13:43.059Yeah, you're continuing in Senata,in any area. So if someone19000:13:43.179 --> 00:13:48.220is walking into an abortion center hasreceived the knowledge of truth, they know19100:13:48.379 --> 00:13:50.100the truth, they admit it's thetruth. They say, I know this19200:13:50.299 --> 00:13:54.299is wrong. God would not approve, but I'm going to go do it19300:13:54.539 --> 00:14:00.850anyway. That, to me isa continuing yeah to sin, when really19400:14:00.929 --> 00:14:05.730what we're called upon is to confessour sin and repent. Yeah, and19500:14:05.970 --> 00:14:11.080and and turn from turn. Yes, I knew some years back. Yeah,19600:14:11.159 --> 00:14:15.600with Ray Comfort in his ministry.We use his evangelism method. I19700:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.960guess. To me it's the biblicalmethod of, you know, law to19800:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.159the proud and grace to the humble. So sharing the law of God.19900:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.669WHO and people they're guilt before Godin their sin. But he gave an20000:14:24.750 --> 00:14:28.870example talking about something along these lines. He gives really good analogies and I20100:14:28.950 --> 00:14:31.909think this one stuck in my mindand he gave the analogy of a father20200:14:31.990 --> 00:14:33.950and son going on a fishing trip. I don't know if you ever heard20300:14:33.990 --> 00:14:37.190this before. There's a father andson there own a fishing trip and they're20400:14:37.269 --> 00:14:41.379camping beside this body of water,Lake or pond or whatever, and the20500:14:41.460 --> 00:14:45.059father tells the son. He says, you know, we're here, we're20600:14:45.059 --> 00:14:46.580having fun, we're going to enjoyour time here together, but I want20700:14:46.620 --> 00:14:50.940to warn you that in that lakeor alligators and if you go swim in20800:14:52.059 --> 00:14:54.769that Lake, you're going to beattacked by alligators. To stay out of20900:14:54.850 --> 00:14:58.090that that lake and will be finalwill have a good time. Well,21000:14:58.210 --> 00:15:01.049the sun, you know, inthe progress of time, starts thinking about21100:15:01.049 --> 00:15:05.289okay, wow, he told methey're alligators there. I don't see the21200:15:05.330 --> 00:15:07.960alligators there, and it looks likeyou'd be fun to try to just swim21300:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.240across to that that island. Andand so the sun jumps in the water21400:15:11.320 --> 00:15:15.480and he swims across and sure enough, just as his father warned him,21500:15:15.480 --> 00:15:18.799alligators came and attack the young man. He's being taken under. He's about21600:15:18.799 --> 00:15:22.629to lose his life and the fathergoes into the pond to get his son21700:15:22.669 --> 00:15:26.190out and fight the alligators and getsbit himself and, you know, even21800:15:26.230 --> 00:15:30.350loses a limb to rescue a son, drags him back to shore and throws21900:15:30.389 --> 00:15:33.870him up on shore and rescues himin that way. And The Sun looks22000:15:33.870 --> 00:15:37.980round. Thanks father for saving me, but it was really fun out there22100:15:39.019 --> 00:15:41.220in the pond. And he goesand jumps back in the pond. Is22200:15:41.299 --> 00:15:45.179He really understanding the gravity of whathis father did for him? is He22300:15:45.299 --> 00:15:50.610really understanding the the nature of histransgression of his father's words. Right,22400:15:50.809 --> 00:15:54.889he's not. It's right person thatgoes into an abortion clinic that talks about22500:15:54.929 --> 00:15:58.129forgiveness and talks about, you know, God's disposition towards humanity, which is22600:15:58.210 --> 00:16:02.850one of love and gray and forgiveness, and that's true. But then they22700:16:02.850 --> 00:16:04.840have this attitude. So I'm goingto go and swim with the alligators anyway,22800:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.440even though I know that you knowand whatever, they really don't grasp22900:16:08.519 --> 00:16:12.600the the the full scope of whatJesus Christ did on the Cross when they23000:16:12.639 --> 00:16:15.559have that attitude, and I wouldsay if they have that attitude, they're23100:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.190not born of God, they don'tknow the Lord, they don't know his23200:16:18.309 --> 00:16:22.070forgiveness. Yeah, that's what we'redealing with for the most part, and23300:16:22.149 --> 00:16:26.909that's a great story and I thinkstories are a way to respond. Jesus23400:16:26.990 --> 00:16:30.070responded that way in parable. Soalso kind. But I've actually use that23500:16:30.190 --> 00:16:33.659story with a few of the theman that I've spoken to and feel the23600:16:33.700 --> 00:16:37.179ladies I've spoken to over the yearsat the abortion clinic and just gave them23700:16:37.220 --> 00:16:40.860that and it's something they can connectwith. Yeah, I I've done a23800:16:40.980 --> 00:16:45.100similar thing with with just another storywhere I've said well, okay, you're23900:16:45.179 --> 00:16:52.049correct. God is a forgiving God, and and and so let me ask24000:16:52.129 --> 00:16:57.409you this. If, if you'remarried and and your husband comes to you24100:16:57.809 --> 00:17:03.000and says, there's a really greatlooking neighbor just moved in next door and24200:17:03.440 --> 00:17:08.240I am going to go have anaffair with her, it means nothing.24300:17:08.279 --> 00:17:12.559I'm just attracted to her. I'mgoing to go, I'll be right back,24400:17:14.359 --> 00:17:18.349because you are a forgiving woman andyou've forgiven me so much in the24500:17:18.430 --> 00:17:22.589past that I know you're going toforgive me for this. So, honey,24600:17:22.710 --> 00:17:26.069just I'll be back in twenty minutes. Yeah, and then I say24700:17:26.150 --> 00:17:30.539to the one women, would thisfly with you? It's that unacceptable thing.24800:17:30.660 --> 00:17:34.259Yeah, and they say no,well, no, of course it24900:17:34.339 --> 00:17:38.740wouldn't. You're presuming, you're goingand doing something that you know is going25000:17:38.779 --> 00:17:47.289to harm and hurt and disregard thethe covenant that you have made with someone25100:17:47.329 --> 00:17:52.250you love. Yeah, and you'represuming on their forgiveness when you come back.25200:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.529And when, when you put itin those terms, though, the25300:17:56.690 --> 00:18:00.839women understand. Well, yeah,I know, I that that would not25400:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.880be okay, but that's what we'reasking of God. Yeah, when we25500:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.680say you are forgiving God, therefore, I am going to break my covenant25600:18:07.720 --> 00:18:12.309with you. I'm going to disregardyour clear commands thou shall not murder.25700:18:12.349 --> 00:18:18.230Yeah, because I'm going to presumeon on your forgiveness. Yeah, and,25800:18:18.349 --> 00:18:22.950like you said earlier, God's notrequired to forgive. Yeah, and25900:18:23.349 --> 00:18:26.380God's not going to be trifled with. You know, the Bible would in26000:18:26.420 --> 00:18:30.339the biblical principle, whatever you sothat's what you'll reap if you so.26100:18:30.819 --> 00:18:37.259Death. Don't expect to reason,you to reap this glorious union with God26200:18:37.579 --> 00:18:42.130and this glorious reception, because deathbrings about death. And you, you've26300:18:42.250 --> 00:18:48.809rejected God's truth and you rejected theavailability of his forgiveness by exchanging that for26400:18:48.970 --> 00:18:52.009really a lie, because that's,you know, just saying that you're sorry26500:18:52.210 --> 00:18:56.960and coming and somehow that's going tobring restoration. That's not forgiveness and that's26600:18:57.000 --> 00:19:02.359not restoration and certainly not repentance.Right, and let me let me read26700:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.720to you a few verses, becauseyou just talked about when you just say26800:19:04.720 --> 00:19:10.000you're sorry, which is confession.It's the confession of your sorrow over your26900:19:10.029 --> 00:19:12.829sin. Right. So there aresome verses, lots of verses, but27000:19:12.910 --> 00:19:15.910I'll read just a couple and thenI want to ask you about, if27100:19:15.950 --> 00:19:21.630you could talk more about that,the difference between confession and repentance and how27200:19:21.910 --> 00:19:26.619how that is all a part ofthe whole forgiveness. Yeah, the whole27300:19:26.660 --> 00:19:30.259picture, for the whole picture forgiveness. Okay, so Romans ten, nine27400:19:30.339 --> 00:19:34.339to ten. If you confess thatJesus is Lord and believe that God raised27500:19:34.380 --> 00:19:37.059him from the dead, you willbe saved, for it is by our27600:19:37.180 --> 00:19:41.769faith that we are pute right withGod. It is by our confession that27700:19:41.930 --> 00:19:47.890we are saved. And some.Thirty two five. Then I confessed my27800:19:48.049 --> 00:19:52.119sins to you. I did notconceal my wrongdoings. I decided to confess27900:19:52.319 --> 00:19:57.000them to you and you forgave allmy sins. And then the last one.28000:19:57.039 --> 00:20:00.839I'll read to you first, JohnOne nine. If we confess our28100:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.960sins, he is faithful and justto forgive us our sins and to cleanse28200:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.670us from all righteousness, all andRighteous Oh, I'm sorry, all on28300:20:10.750 --> 00:20:15.269righteousness. So I know you've heard, as I have many times from women28400:20:15.309 --> 00:20:19.589who are at the abortion center.Well, I've said I'm sorry, yeah,28500:20:19.589 --> 00:20:23.140I've told God I'm sorry. Yeah, is that? Does that earn28600:20:23.779 --> 00:20:27.619God's forgiveness. Yeah, well,again there's that attitude of you know,28700:20:29.380 --> 00:20:33.940we don't believe anyone can earn theirsalvation. Salvation comes through faith in Jesus28800:20:33.019 --> 00:20:40.609Christ. Confession is an important partof repentance and God, you know,28900:20:41.210 --> 00:20:45.250does not reject those who honestly likethat Psalm says, you know, I29000:20:45.369 --> 00:20:49.039confess my sins to you. Idid not conceal my wrongdoings. Bible says29100:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.680those that conceal their sins will notprosper, but those that confess and forsake29200:20:53.799 --> 00:20:59.880them will have mercy. So there'sthis confession and this forsakings and that's where29300:20:59.920 --> 00:21:03.470repentance really comes in, because repentanceis not just saying I'm sorry. You29400:21:03.589 --> 00:21:07.190know, we think about you know, repent. You know that word is,29500:21:07.269 --> 00:21:11.029I guess, maybe more of ayou know, religious word or people,29600:21:11.309 --> 00:21:14.589you know, kind of look atit. But the Greek word has29700:21:14.630 --> 00:21:18.099some very practical implications. And somepeople say, well, just repent means29800:21:18.220 --> 00:21:22.220just change your mind. No,not really. It's part. That's part29900:21:22.259 --> 00:21:25.619of it. It's to change yourmind, it's for your heart to be30000:21:25.700 --> 00:21:29.900changed. And here's the point.The important point is it's the direction of30100:21:29.980 --> 00:21:33.009your feet changing. It actually isa one hundred and eighty degree turn.30200:21:33.089 --> 00:21:37.250So true repentance, if a mother'sgoing into an abortion clinic, true repentance30300:21:37.250 --> 00:21:41.529is not just confessing that what shedid is wrong or what she's about to30400:21:41.609 --> 00:21:45.849do is wrong, but it's actuallyturning around and leaving the place right and30500:21:47.519 --> 00:21:51.680you know, and there is adifference in what we're talking to, and30600:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.759we'll get to mothers who've already hadabortions and forgiveness, because that the message30700:21:56.759 --> 00:22:02.230of forgiveness is an important message forthose have already had abortions. Right now,30800:22:02.309 --> 00:22:04.789what we're talking about is sort ofa preemptive forgiveness. And is that30900:22:04.829 --> 00:22:10.150available? Is that something that Godoffers? It's not. You will not31000:22:10.309 --> 00:22:12.710see in the Bible where, youknow, someone confesses, you know,31100:22:12.750 --> 00:22:17.339I'm about to go and commit adulteryGod, but I know you're forgiving,31200:22:17.420 --> 00:22:19.859so you'll forgive me. You don'tsee God receiving that. No, where31300:22:21.019 --> 00:22:23.900ever in the scriptures. Right yousee an attitude like this because you know31400:22:23.940 --> 00:22:30.650maybe shift into a post abortive woman, somebody who's already committed sin. Psalm31500:22:30.769 --> 00:22:33.529fifty one told you I wanted togo here. The Psalm was just,31600:22:33.730 --> 00:22:38.170yeah, powerful Psalm of repentance,Right Confession and repentance of sin. And31700:22:38.250 --> 00:22:41.970this is David after he had sinnedwith best she send in a gross way.31800:22:42.289 --> 00:22:45.559He'd broken all ten of the TenCommandments, you know, and this31900:22:45.920 --> 00:22:52.160and this one span of time inhis life and he's confronting into sin by32000:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.599Nathan the Prophet, and this psalmsI'm fifty one is is a psalm that32100:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.789flows out of that and he startsit out by saying, have mercy on32200:23:00.869 --> 00:23:03.710me, O God, according toyour loving kindness, according to the multitude32300:23:03.029 --> 00:23:07.549of your tender Mercies, blot outmy transgressions. He goes on to say32400:23:07.589 --> 00:23:11.349against you, this is the verse, four against you, and you only32500:23:11.470 --> 00:23:15.420have a sinned and done this evilin your sight that you may be found32600:23:15.539 --> 00:23:18.859just dust when you speak and blamelesswhen you judge. So He's acknowledging this32700:23:19.140 --> 00:23:25.259important point that when we sin it'snot just against people, it's against God32800:23:25.539 --> 00:23:30.410himself. In the sin of abortion, that sin is against that baby for32900:23:30.529 --> 00:23:33.329sure, but more importantly even thanthat, it's a sin against God.33000:23:33.569 --> 00:23:37.490And David acknowledged here in Psalm fiftyone that the sin that he committed with33100:23:37.609 --> 00:23:41.680Bathsheba and the murder of your eyeand all of that. Was Not just33200:23:41.839 --> 00:23:45.119a sin against your eye, itwasn't just a sin against Bathsheba. Wasn't33300:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.240just a sin against Israel because hewas their king, it was a sin33400:23:48.279 --> 00:23:52.839against God himself. Then he goeson movement, moving down to it,33500:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.710to an important point. Here.We're talking about for confession and forgiveness.33600:23:56.750 --> 00:24:02.430Is this. It says, OldLord, Open My lips and my mouth33700:24:02.549 --> 00:24:06.509shall flow forth your praise, foryou do not desire sacrifice, or else33800:24:06.509 --> 00:24:08.670I would give it, and youdo not delight and burnt offerings, the33900:24:08.789 --> 00:24:14.660sacrifices of God or a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. These,34000:24:14.779 --> 00:24:19.140old God, you will not despisebroken and college cry Contriarte, so34100:24:19.299 --> 00:24:25.369construction, self righteous and self Iknow I'm going to go do this.34200:24:25.410 --> 00:24:30.009Yeah, and then I will askforgiveness. It means I'm a worm.34300:24:30.130 --> 00:24:33.609I. Yeah, contrition is anacknowledgement that we've sinned against a holy God.34400:24:34.210 --> 00:24:38.480Contrition is is is almost the pictureof sackcloth and ashes. I mean34500:24:38.519 --> 00:24:42.480there are those who in the OldTestament, who put on sackcloth and ashes34600:24:42.559 --> 00:24:48.039as an outward sign of contrition intheir hearts over the sin of their people34700:24:48.039 --> 00:24:52.069over their own sin and and you, God is not at God doesn't need34800:24:52.230 --> 00:24:57.109us groveling in the dirt and allthat's not about that. But God wants34900:24:57.150 --> 00:25:00.309your heart. You know, that'swhat God has always been after. He's35000:25:00.309 --> 00:25:03.990been after the human heart, andthe human heart that is hard and just35100:25:04.190 --> 00:25:07.859basically presumes upon the forgiveness of God, like you're going to forgive me.35200:25:08.500 --> 00:25:11.539Is Not the heart that God isafter. He's after a broken, like35300:25:11.619 --> 00:25:17.900it says here, a broken andcontrite heart. You will not despise.35400:25:17.980 --> 00:25:22.410That's what God is after. Yeah, broken to yourself and your self desires35500:25:22.529 --> 00:25:26.730and with a heart that is seekingGod's desires. And so you're broken because35600:25:26.809 --> 00:25:32.769you see how, Paul, howmuch you've fallen. Yeah, yeah,35700:25:32.769 --> 00:25:36.839you know the attitude that a womangoing into an abortion clineker anyone just in35800:25:36.960 --> 00:25:38.119general, that you know, I'mgoing to go in the Strip club and35900:25:38.359 --> 00:25:41.839you know, God's forgiving God,so he'll forgive me. I'm going to36000:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.160go and get drunk. I KnowGod's are forgiving God, so he's going36100:25:44.200 --> 00:25:48.119to forgive me. That attitude isnot one of contrition. That attitude is36200:25:48.200 --> 00:25:51.750one of hardness, and that's,you know, James Chapter Four. God36300:25:51.789 --> 00:25:55.470resists the proud. That is pride. That is pride, that is bringing36400:25:55.589 --> 00:25:57.630pride into the equation. The BibleSays God resists that. Yeah, he36500:25:57.710 --> 00:26:02.710does not delight in that. Ithink it's not recognizing that God is a36600:26:03.029 --> 00:26:07.579just God and a wrathful God.Yeah, it shows a grave lack of36700:26:07.859 --> 00:26:11.700the fear of the Lord. Exactly. And and and a lack of the36800:26:11.740 --> 00:26:12.980fear of Lord. Listen, Bibletells us the fear of the Lord is36900:26:12.980 --> 00:26:15.779the beginning of Wisdom. You'll bea why, as person, fear God?37000:26:15.900 --> 00:26:18.890Right, right, and and somethingyou said. He doesn't want US37100:26:18.890 --> 00:26:26.329scrabbling. No, but he alsodoesn't want US continuing down a destructive path.37200:26:26.369 --> 00:26:30.690Yeah, and any path that takesus away from God is a destructive37300:26:30.730 --> 00:26:33.440path. And it's important to knowthat a third of abortions are repeat abortions.37400:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.400Yeah, statistically, a third ofthose women are continuing in sin.37500:26:37.559 --> 00:26:42.359This is one of many abortions andif there doesn't come a point, at37600:26:42.519 --> 00:26:48.589at some point, where someone iswilling to speak truth about God's forgiveness and37700:26:48.789 --> 00:26:53.470what true repentance looks like, theywill continue that path. Yeah. Yeah,37800:26:53.470 --> 00:26:57.109absolutely, took further and that's beenone of the burdens on our hearts37900:26:57.230 --> 00:27:00.660as we you know, we dealwith this as far as women going into38000:27:00.700 --> 00:27:03.980the abortion clinic with an attitude ofyou know, I'm going to do this38100:27:03.099 --> 00:27:07.220and God's going to forgive me,and we've already talked about that. But38200:27:07.299 --> 00:27:11.299we also deal with the women who'vecome out after the abortions and you know,38300:27:11.420 --> 00:27:15.579God has really blessed us with somewonderful people in the afternoon teams because38400:27:15.579 --> 00:27:18.089the way it's set up here inCharlotte, I don't know how it is38500:27:18.450 --> 00:27:22.130in other cities, but basically theabortion patients come in in the morning.38600:27:22.410 --> 00:27:25.970They're typically there by thirty two havetheir abortions. So we know that we're38700:27:26.009 --> 00:27:29.890reaching those who are coming in foran abortion. In the afternoons, you38800:27:29.930 --> 00:27:33.640know, after the abortionist gets thereand sometime after you'll have the people who38900:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.680have come out who be either takingthe abortion people or had a surgical abortion,39000:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.119and that that is a post aboordivewoman directly after having had an abortion.39100:27:42.039 --> 00:27:47.750Is the message of forgiveness important there, or should we take an attitude,39200:27:47.750 --> 00:27:51.589and we might could justify take anattitude of you know, just hey,39300:27:51.869 --> 00:27:53.230you wicked murder or look what you'vedone. I mean, could we39400:27:53.390 --> 00:27:57.190say that? would be justified insaying that? Possibly, but would that39500:27:57.269 --> 00:28:03.339be helpful? So it's almost like, like you said, the timing can39600:28:03.380 --> 00:28:07.500be really important, the timing inthe sense of what's the goal, and39700:28:07.660 --> 00:28:14.450the goal is restoration. Ultimately,the goal is restoration of those people to39800:28:14.569 --> 00:28:21.450God. Yeah, and how doyou restore in in the person who's contemplating39900:28:21.529 --> 00:28:27.240abortion but has not yet done it? You restore by really talking about the40000:28:27.359 --> 00:28:33.960severity of that sin against God andyou can't do that against your Lord and40100:28:34.160 --> 00:28:38.880against that baby. It is wrong, it is evil. Restoration of the40200:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.430woman who has already done it is, I think, many fold, and40300:28:44.430 --> 00:28:48.789I think we discussed this already alittle bit in another podcast. But first40400:28:48.789 --> 00:28:53.349of all, a recognition of sin, which they at first when they come40500:28:53.390 --> 00:28:59.339out the statistically they're going to feelrelief. There's not going to be necessarily40600:28:59.420 --> 00:29:03.819that sense of deep sin. Soa recognition of sin and then leading them40700:29:03.980 --> 00:29:11.650through the process by which you arerestored back to God through confession, repentance40800:29:11.170 --> 00:29:15.730and then faith suggestion of your life. We just practically speaking. Maybe some40900:29:15.849 --> 00:29:19.730folks might ask. Okay, sowhat do you say to a woman that's41000:29:19.769 --> 00:29:22.890just come out after having had anabortion. Yeah, how do you you41100:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.759know, how do you you know, not make a light of what she41200:29:26.920 --> 00:29:30.799just died but also all for forgiveness. I mean by you. You know,41300:29:30.839 --> 00:29:33.839you've shared your testimony, you've talkedabout it several times on the podcast41400:29:34.359 --> 00:29:40.230about you yourself being post abord.You've had an abortion and you know someone41500:29:40.309 --> 00:29:42.390what goes on and and you canspeak to that and certainly you're not going41600:29:42.430 --> 00:29:47.190to speak to that in a waythat makes it look like there's no forgiveness,41700:29:47.390 --> 00:29:48.309right. But how do you addressthat? I mean, yeah,41800:29:48.309 --> 00:29:52.589I'm your standpoint well, and Ithink it is hard. I we train41900:29:52.710 --> 00:29:55.940our afternoon teams and the first thingI tell them is this is a delicate42000:29:56.059 --> 00:29:59.420balance that you're walking be. Youwant them to talk to you, you42100:30:00.660 --> 00:30:03.380do want to be able to getthe the literature into their hands that has42200:30:03.460 --> 00:30:08.490post aboard of help, but youdo want them to recognize that what they42300:30:08.650 --> 00:30:12.769just did was wrong. And theoverwhelming majority, I would say, of42400:30:12.849 --> 00:30:17.369them that walk out say it's okay, I'm good. Yeah, but so42500:30:17.730 --> 00:30:21.799typically, and not that I havethe answer, but some of the things42600:30:21.839 --> 00:30:27.440that I will call out are thingslike I know that many women deeply regret42700:30:27.559 --> 00:30:33.880an abortion. And if you don'tfeel sorrow right now, you very well42800:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.349mate down the road and you mayneed help. Yeah, learning how to42900:30:37.509 --> 00:30:44.349deal with that and I'll sometimes evensay deal with this sin for yourself and43000:30:44.470 --> 00:30:48.910before God. Yeah, so it'sintroducing, I hope gently, the idea43100:30:49.019 --> 00:30:55.859that what you did there, causeit's grief and despair and is sin.43200:30:56.180 --> 00:31:03.779Yeah, and if they say I'mgood, I think we've talked about that43300:31:03.980 --> 00:31:08.769in the past, I will oftencounter with well, I myself thought that43400:31:08.890 --> 00:31:12.289at one point in my life aswell, and I'll go into my own43500:31:12.369 --> 00:31:18.079story and how that my immediate responsewas relief and thinking everything was now going43600:31:18.119 --> 00:31:22.240to be fine. But as itturned out, the older and older I43700:31:22.319 --> 00:31:27.799got in the further the more Iunderstood God and the depth of that sin,43800:31:29.480 --> 00:31:33.150the actually the the greater the burdenand pain and sorrow. Yeah,43900:31:33.230 --> 00:31:38.589over that was. So that's howI deal with it. Yeah, I'm44000:31:38.670 --> 00:31:45.069not sure what others say and Idon't think that there's any magic thing that44100:31:45.190 --> 00:31:48.619you can say, but I thinkthe principle of what you say is don't44200:31:48.779 --> 00:31:53.019gloss over the fact that what happenedthere was wrong. Yeah, yeah,44300:31:53.539 --> 00:31:59.339you know, timing. You know, people might say timing is not that44400:31:59.500 --> 00:32:02.450important. Even your volume actually canbe important. You there's there's a proverb.44500:32:04.410 --> 00:32:06.769Forget exactly where it's at, butI promise it's in there. Okay.44600:32:06.849 --> 00:32:10.130They basically says if you bless yourbrother loudly early in the morning,44700:32:10.410 --> 00:32:15.289it will be received as a curse. So there is a certain timing that.44800:32:15.490 --> 00:32:16.640What is that telling us? Well, timing early in the morning.44900:32:17.119 --> 00:32:21.960Volume actually can matter. Your toneof voice can matter, you know,45000:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.279whenever the words maybe necessarily don't matterso much. They do matter. I'm45100:32:25.319 --> 00:32:30.670not saying they don't in the Biblecertainly acknowledges correct words, words that are45200:32:30.910 --> 00:32:36.950true to the word, are important. But your timing in your volume does45300:32:37.029 --> 00:32:43.109matter. And there's a scripture.It's a messionic prophecy scripture. It says,45400:32:43.230 --> 00:32:46.099speaking of Jesus, that he won'tquench a smoking flax nor break a45500:32:46.220 --> 00:32:50.819bruised read right. Well, that'ssaying is you know, basically those are45600:32:50.819 --> 00:32:53.579already broken. Jesus is not goingto break them even further. You Know45700:32:53.740 --> 00:32:57.579God, God doesn't kick people whenthey're down. A matter of fact,45800:32:57.619 --> 00:33:00.529the Bible tells us when we're downas when God is willing to raise us45900:33:00.529 --> 00:33:02.450up. Hum will yourself under themighty hand of God and he will lift46000:33:02.490 --> 00:33:05.769you up. And so there's acertain sense that, you know, I've46100:33:05.769 --> 00:33:07.089encounted, and that was certainly haveencountered, a lot of women that come46200:33:07.130 --> 00:33:10.170out they're just are getting proud.And how do you respond to that?46300:33:10.250 --> 00:33:14.279Typically, you know what, I'lljust bow my head and pray for them46400:33:14.799 --> 00:33:17.319because typically, if they're coming outand they have an attitude of just bitterness46500:33:17.400 --> 00:33:21.720and against me, because what itis is really the conviction they feel in46600:33:21.759 --> 00:33:23.920themselves, that I'll might, Imight steing them with a little bit of46700:33:23.960 --> 00:33:27.509truth and say, you know what, you just killed your child. You46800:33:27.549 --> 00:33:30.109should turn to the Lord. Imight say something like that, but I'm46900:33:30.109 --> 00:33:31.990not going to engage in some lengthyconversation with him. Typically, I'm going47000:33:31.990 --> 00:33:35.750to pray for the Holy Spirit todo his work in their heart. But47100:33:35.829 --> 00:33:38.829I haven't count I mean just itwas goupled days ago. It was one47200:33:38.829 --> 00:33:42.380of those days, you know,sometimes things just come in waves, and47300:33:42.420 --> 00:33:45.700it was one of those days wherewe had like three women in a row47400:33:45.220 --> 00:33:49.619that came out of the abortion clinicwith I mean just ball it. They47500:33:49.660 --> 00:33:52.180were just crying and their hearts werebroken over what they had just done.47600:33:52.380 --> 00:33:54.730Am I going to look at herand I'm going to say, look what47700:33:54.849 --> 00:33:59.490you just did, you wicked center. No, she's already broken, right,47800:33:59.569 --> 00:34:04.130she already acknowledges what she's done.She's totally ripe for the message of47900:34:04.210 --> 00:34:07.809forgiveness. Yeah, that's the personthen, that she needs to know.48000:34:08.090 --> 00:34:13.199She's recognized her yeah, she's recognizedthat. It's broken her heart and,48100:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.480and I would say that very directly, I can see that your heart is48200:34:15.599 --> 00:34:19.800broken. I am so sorry.Can we talk about there is help,48300:34:19.880 --> 00:34:22.079there is hope, there is forgiveness. Yeah, can I share with you48400:34:22.239 --> 00:34:24.550how you can find that? Imean one of the things I'm not going48500:34:24.590 --> 00:34:28.309to say those. I'm not goingto say you don't need to cry,48600:34:28.389 --> 00:34:30.590you're forgiven, because that's not true. No, nice to cry. She48700:34:30.710 --> 00:34:34.909needs to weep, and that tome is such a positive sign that she48800:34:35.150 --> 00:34:42.300recognizes. And the danger there isyou don't want someone becoming suicidal. Yeah,48900:34:42.300 --> 00:34:45.380and and knowing from my own experience, you can it. It's horrific.49000:34:45.460 --> 00:34:50.340When you recognize the depth of whatyou've done, it can take you49100:34:50.619 --> 00:34:53.530over the edge. Yeah, so. So that message of forgiveness then,49200:34:53.769 --> 00:34:58.730which is why the afternoon teams forus in our ministry is so important.49300:34:59.050 --> 00:35:01.690That, and it's important for otherswho were doing sidewall counselor working in a49400:35:01.730 --> 00:35:07.360pregnancy center understand this these points too. That's true. That's true because at49500:35:07.440 --> 00:35:12.840that point the message of forgiveness madevery well save that woman's life. Yeah,49600:35:13.039 --> 00:35:19.159and also, rather than having herturn inward with that pain and to49700:35:19.360 --> 00:35:25.989anger or self destruction or bitterness towardsGod, hopefully the the opposite will happen,49800:35:27.070 --> 00:35:30.750that she will then release that painand use it for God's glory.49900:35:30.909 --> 00:35:36.539And that's what that's again, thatrestoration. The goal is restoration. Yeah,50000:35:36.820 --> 00:35:38.219one of the things I say oftentimesis, you know, we don't50100:35:38.260 --> 00:35:44.179begin with God until we've come tothe end of ourselves, and sometimes it's50200:35:44.460 --> 00:35:49.500something like doing something as horrible asan abortion that will bring us to the50300:35:49.539 --> 00:35:52.489end of ourselves to show us,you know what, I'm not good right,50400:35:52.650 --> 00:35:57.449I am not right, I amnot going in the right direction and50500:35:57.570 --> 00:36:01.289I need someone to rescue me.And so hopefully in that situation there's a50600:36:01.449 --> 00:36:07.360gospel voice, there's a there's aproclaimer of truth on that sidewalk, at50700:36:07.400 --> 00:36:10.119that pregnancy center, at that youknow whatever you know. A lot of50800:36:10.199 --> 00:36:15.239times God will break post aboordive womenin a church service when somebody's preaching about50900:36:15.239 --> 00:36:20.710abortion and they're broken and hopefully there'ssomebody there that will offer the message of51000:36:20.989 --> 00:36:27.150forgiveness and rest ration in light ofthat sin and bring the hope that comes51100:36:27.389 --> 00:36:30.469in the name of Jesus, notjust glossing over it again, not just51200:36:30.550 --> 00:36:32.940say well, you're forgiven, soit's okay. It's not okay. Yeah,51300:36:34.219 --> 00:36:37.739but if you'll turn to the LordJesus. Now I've said this quite51400:36:37.739 --> 00:36:39.260a few times. I member onelady. I may even shared this on51500:36:39.300 --> 00:36:42.820the podcast before. May Have not, but there was. It's a couple51600:36:42.820 --> 00:36:45.300of years ago. This young ladywas coming out of the abortion clinic parking51700:36:45.380 --> 00:36:49.690lot and she stopped in the drivewayand I'm setting up, I'm actually taken51800:36:49.769 --> 00:36:52.849down the sound system and putting itaway, and she stops in the driveway51900:36:52.889 --> 00:36:55.170and I hander one of our brochures, and that's an important point. Guys52000:36:55.210 --> 00:37:00.329that have some kind of information.You have one that's called hope and healing52100:37:00.849 --> 00:37:04.039and it has your testimony in andit's got the Gospel in there and it's52200:37:04.039 --> 00:37:07.360talks about some of the risks andthings associated with abortion and some of the52300:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.480things watch out for anyway, andhas healing resources on it exactly. Yeah,52400:37:10.599 --> 00:37:14.440local ministries, thing for MAG withand whatever. And so I handed52500:37:14.480 --> 00:37:17.110her brochure and and she said,you know, I wish I would have52600:37:17.230 --> 00:37:20.789listened to the truth you guys aretelling me out here, as I was52700:37:20.869 --> 00:37:22.469going in that she was back fora follow up, a point as I52800:37:22.469 --> 00:37:25.030wish I would listen to the truthyou guys are telling me out here instead52900:37:25.030 --> 00:37:28.630of the lies they were telling meinside of there. And she says,53000:37:28.789 --> 00:37:30.860I know God is a forgiving God, but I don't think he can ever53100:37:30.940 --> 00:37:34.619forgive me for this. And Igo right to first John. You know,53200:37:34.659 --> 00:37:37.300the Bible says if we confess oursins, he's faithful and just forgive53300:37:37.340 --> 00:37:39.460us our sins and it cleanse usfrom all in righteousness. And I'm not53400:37:39.500 --> 00:37:43.179saying that just to all you haveto do is say you're sorry and a53500:37:43.260 --> 00:37:46.530knowledge. No, I'm saying thatto say there is an availability of God,53600:37:46.690 --> 00:37:50.369by His mercy, to forgive ifyou'll confess, as you were sin,53700:37:50.449 --> 00:37:52.050if you will acknowledge and I wentright for us. And you know,53800:37:52.090 --> 00:37:55.329you've got to acknowledge that you've sinnedagainst God and when you took that53900:37:55.409 --> 00:37:59.760baby's life, you didn't just makea mistake, you didn't just do something54000:37:59.840 --> 00:38:01.719to her. You and I I'musing a very in this conversation, a54100:38:01.719 --> 00:38:05.639very soft tone, or not right. You know, I'm not, you54200:38:05.719 --> 00:38:07.920know, condemning her in the sense. You know, I'm not being,54300:38:07.239 --> 00:38:10.639you know, hard nosed in thatsense, but I'm pointing to the Scripture54400:38:10.719 --> 00:38:15.349and I'm pointing her to the Savior, and that's what we need to do.54500:38:15.750 --> 00:38:17.869We've got a point people to thesavior. We're not their savior,54600:38:19.269 --> 00:38:22.269and so our first you know,we don't need to just pointed to some54700:38:22.349 --> 00:38:24.550ministry. You want any just pointhim to some whatever. We need to54800:38:24.670 --> 00:38:29.300point to the savior turned to theLord, Jesus. Yeah, it turned54900:38:29.420 --> 00:38:35.380Jesus and he is willing to forgiveand to save all those who will truly55000:38:35.460 --> 00:38:37.619turn to him. That's the messageof the Gods and that is truly the55100:38:37.860 --> 00:38:44.250only, the only real hope andhealing that any post aboard of woman is55200:38:44.329 --> 00:38:47.530going to find. They it is, you know, as probably as horrific55300:38:47.610 --> 00:38:52.409as sin as a woman can do. Yeah, destroy her own child.55400:38:52.530 --> 00:38:55.280And there is, there is nevergoing to be in this world a way55500:38:55.320 --> 00:39:01.400that you can rationalize that kind ofpain. Yeah, away, but but55600:39:01.960 --> 00:39:07.360Jesus can heal your heart. Yeah, can. Can even use that pain55700:39:07.519 --> 00:39:14.269to to further his kingdom. Yeah. So that's a message that is critical55800:39:14.429 --> 00:39:20.750for them to hear. And forforgiveness is is just essential. Yeah,55900:39:21.510 --> 00:39:23.900absolutely, you know, and it'sa message just like the message of the56000:39:24.099 --> 00:39:30.980value of human life. The themessage of forgiveness, healing and restoration,56100:39:30.219 --> 00:39:35.820salvation that comes to Jesus Christ isthe message that we need to be bringing56200:39:35.860 --> 00:39:38.730in this realm. That's why thispodcast is Gospel centered. Pro Life is56300:39:38.809 --> 00:39:43.530because it's not just about saving thelives of babies. I don't say just56400:39:43.929 --> 00:39:47.369to minimize that, because that's massivelyimportant, but it's also about bringing the56500:39:47.489 --> 00:39:52.960Gospel, bringing the Gospel to thesemen and women at the abortion clinics.56600:39:52.000 --> 00:39:57.440Hopefully their heart is softened by theGospel before they go in and they choose56700:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.760life for their baby based on theiracceptance of the Gospel. We've seen that56800:40:00.920 --> 00:40:06.039happen. Yeah, but if they'vehad the abortion and they come out our56900:40:06.159 --> 00:40:08.750prayers that their heart is softened bythe Gospel rather than hardened by their sin,57000:40:08.909 --> 00:40:14.070because that can happen. It's softenedby the Gospel and they turn to57100:40:14.150 --> 00:40:19.150the Lord Jesus, because we're therebringing this message of healing, restoration,57200:40:19.349 --> 00:40:23.500forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ andyou. That's our job as Christians to57300:40:23.659 --> 00:40:29.099bring Christ in, especially to thesevery dark places. So you know,57400:40:29.179 --> 00:40:30.860with that I think we'll wrap thisthing up. We appreciate those who have57500:40:31.099 --> 00:40:36.769listened and hopefully this podcast has beena blessing to you and you know,57600:40:36.849 --> 00:40:39.610we'd love to hear any suggestions youhave for other podcasts. We'd love to57700:40:39.650 --> 00:40:43.610hear maybe just some feedback on thispodcast. Is there a point that we57800:40:43.969 --> 00:40:45.489that we just kind of glazed overand you want to hear a little more57900:40:45.489 --> 00:40:49.769about? We'd certainly love to getinto that a little deeper. Is there58000:40:49.889 --> 00:40:52.119something you know someone you'd like forus to interview on the podcast? We'd58100:40:52.159 --> 00:40:54.360love to do that. We'd liketo hear back from you, so you58200:40:54.519 --> 00:41:00.199email me. Deep Parks at citiesfor lifecom Vicky At v Cossi orgcom.58300:41:00.320 --> 00:41:02.199Share these podcasts. You can sharethem on facebook you can share them,58400:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.670you know, I guess on twitter. Whatever. You get the link and58500:41:05.989 --> 00:41:10.670and share that and leave us somefeedback in the reviews on apple podcasts and58600:41:12.030 --> 00:41:15.070on Google podcasts and other podcast services. There's a place where you can add58700:41:15.110 --> 00:41:17.699a review and you can, youknow, let us know how we're doing.58800:41:19.099 --> 00:41:22.659But we do appreciate you, guys, for listening and a will.58900:41:22.179 --> 00:41:30.460We'll talk to you guys real soon. God bless give me out left for59000:41:30.699 --> 00:41:43.929love, give me our loft forgratitude. I know it will cost me59100:41:44.090 --> 00:41:51.840my life. Nothing's too precious andsome that you