What is the Abortion Pill Reversal?

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.799I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Send Me,200:00:06.160 --> 00:00:10.189Lord. Welcome to the Gospel Centerpro life podcast. This episode we're going300:00:10.230 --> 00:00:13.509to have a special guest, mywife Courtney Parks, on to talk about400:00:13.550 --> 00:00:17.550the abortion pill reversal. She'll explainwhat the abortion pill reversal is, as500:00:17.589 --> 00:00:21.109well as share some stories what Godhas done through this awesome procedure. Stay600:00:21.190 --> 00:00:37.049tuned. I felt show passis touchyour heart. Use Welcome to the Gospel700:00:37.090 --> 00:00:41.530Center pro life podcast. We havea special guest, very special guests,800:00:41.609 --> 00:00:45.570very my favorite guest that we've hadof all thus far, of all times,900:00:46.770 --> 00:00:50.840and we'll be talking about a futureAmen, and we're going to be1000:00:50.880 --> 00:00:55.280talking about a special subject which hopefullywe'll be a blessing to you guys.1100:00:55.479 --> 00:01:02.359Hopefully this will be informative to youguys and informational but also cheering some stories,1200:01:02.840 --> 00:01:06.670because God has done some amazing things. We have some pretty amazing stories1300:01:07.230 --> 00:01:11.549to share and we have an amazingwoman here, my wife, courtney parks,1400:01:11.989 --> 00:01:17.349are in. She's a registered nurseand we're very happy to have her.1500:01:17.469 --> 00:01:19.540We're here with US and she's beeninvolved in what we're going to be1600:01:19.620 --> 00:01:23.739talking about, which is the abortionpill reversal. She's been involved in that1700:01:23.939 --> 00:01:26.340for a few years. How manyyears that's been? Probably Five, five1800:01:26.340 --> 00:01:30.700years. So she's been involved inthe abortion pill reversals and doing the abortion1900:01:30.700 --> 00:01:34.329peal reversals for about five years.And some of you guys have no clue2000:01:34.370 --> 00:01:38.370what we're talking about. Some ofyou guys know exactly what we're talking about.2100:01:38.090 --> 00:01:42.090But hopefully, as we when wewrap up this podcast, you'll be2200:01:42.209 --> 00:01:48.040fully aware of what we're talking aboutand how, if you're ministering in a2300:01:48.120 --> 00:01:52.239pregnancy center or you're ministering, likewe do, on the sidewalks an abortion2400:01:52.359 --> 00:01:57.040center, you'll know how to effectivelyoffer the abortion pell reversal, or at2500:01:57.040 --> 00:02:00.400least what you're offering, what you'retalking about, and even where to refer2600:02:00.560 --> 00:02:04.189people to. And so let's let'sjump into a Vicky, you got some2700:02:04.269 --> 00:02:06.989questions there that you were going toask my wife. So we're going to2800:02:07.030 --> 00:02:10.909be grilling her with these questions andI'm sure she'll do a very good job2900:02:10.990 --> 00:02:15.550in answering them. So hop intoyour first question. Yeah, well,3000:02:15.900 --> 00:02:20.580and and it just as an introductionof this wonderful woman. I have been3100:02:20.659 --> 00:02:24.180with Courtney for at least a fewof these abortion pill reversals, one of3200:02:24.259 --> 00:02:28.819which took all day and I thinkwe're going to hear later about that story,3300:02:29.020 --> 00:02:34.770but it is just such a beautifulexample of God giving a second chance.3400:02:34.889 --> 00:02:37.810He is the God of Second Chances, isn't he? and to me3500:02:38.050 --> 00:02:43.849the abortion pill reversal is just sucha beautiful example of that. So maybe3600:02:44.169 --> 00:02:47.159for the people listening who have noidea what it is or they've probably heard3700:02:47.159 --> 00:02:52.479some lies about it, because thereare a lot of misperceptions and lies about3800:02:52.479 --> 00:02:55.639it out there, can you tellus what it is, how it works,3900:02:55.680 --> 00:03:01.909who developed it, maybe when itwas developed? How about we talked4000:03:01.909 --> 00:03:07.229about what the abortion pill actually doesand then then we can jump into because4100:03:07.590 --> 00:03:10.990one of the misconceptions that people haveis that the abortion pill that they give4200:03:12.030 --> 00:03:15.500them inside the abortion center and themorning after peeple are the same thing in4300:03:15.620 --> 00:03:17.860Courtney. Those are not the samething, absolutely not two different things.4400:03:19.060 --> 00:03:23.099So how does the abortion peel work? So they give them medication inside the4500:03:23.099 --> 00:03:25.900abortion center. What what is thatmedication? How does it work? Is4600:03:25.939 --> 00:03:30.250there a combination of medications, thatsort of thing? So when we talk4700:03:30.330 --> 00:03:37.050about the abortion pill, it's actuallya series of two medications. The first4800:03:37.129 --> 00:03:43.240medication they actually give them in theabortion clinic. It's called mythopristone, or4900:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.680another name you might hear is areyou for eighty six? And and what5000:03:46.800 --> 00:03:51.120that is? It's a progesterone blocker. All right. So they give them5100:03:51.159 --> 00:03:55.349this medication in the abortion clinic andwhat it does is it attaches itself to5200:03:55.389 --> 00:04:02.990the progesterone receptors in the uterus andit effectively tells the body this pregnancy is5300:04:03.030 --> 00:04:08.750no longer wanted. It causes justthe blood flow to stop to the Plus5400:04:08.750 --> 00:04:13.900Sinta and essentially cuts off all theblood supply and the baby dies. Okay.5500:04:14.340 --> 00:04:18.220They then send them home with actuallya second part of the process,5600:04:18.339 --> 00:04:23.980which a lot of people don't evenunderstand or think that it has a second5700:04:24.019 --> 00:04:29.889process. They think that first pillis all it takes. And the second5800:04:29.970 --> 00:04:32.930part is actually called Mr Pro stall, or side attack. Okay, and5900:04:33.009 --> 00:04:41.959it actually causes the woman to havecontractions and expel this baby, quote unquote,6000:04:41.959 --> 00:04:45.199in the privacy of her own home. Right. So it would be6100:04:45.360 --> 00:04:47.600it'd be a good assessment to saythe first medication. So we're talking about6200:04:47.600 --> 00:04:51.720the abortion pill. We're talking aboutnot just one medication, we're talking about6300:04:51.720 --> 00:04:56.870an abortion peel procedure regiments? YEA, and so it would be fair to6400:04:56.910 --> 00:05:00.350say the first medication, mythopristals,which you know it right, is what6500:05:00.430 --> 00:05:03.310kills the baby and the second medicationis what puts them into labor and then6600:05:03.350 --> 00:05:06.180they delivered their dead baby a lotof times in the toilet, right,6700:05:06.459 --> 00:05:10.660bathtub or whatever. If anybody,if you guys, listen to ever seeing6800:05:10.819 --> 00:05:15.300the unplanned movie, I think wementioned this in previous podcast, there's kind6900:05:15.300 --> 00:05:20.060of a graphic depiction of that processhappening and seem pretty realistic, actually very7000:05:20.100 --> 00:05:25.490realistic from what I've heard from clientsand vasitions. that. Okay, so7100:05:25.689 --> 00:05:29.769that's the abortion pill and that's whatit does. WHAT IS APR? What7200:05:29.889 --> 00:05:32.050is the abortion pell reversal, andwhat does it do? Okay, so7300:05:32.889 --> 00:05:40.040when we talk about abortion peel reversal, it's actually not really a reversal.7400:05:40.160 --> 00:05:45.639It reverses the process that you've started. But what we're doing is we're giving7500:05:45.680 --> 00:05:50.189the woman extra progestero and over andabove what her body is already making to7600:05:50.350 --> 00:05:54.910really just flood the body and sayno, we really do want to support7700:05:54.990 --> 00:06:00.149this pregnancy, we really do wantthis pregnancy to survive, and the thought7800:06:00.230 --> 00:06:04.939behind it is that it kind ofover rides those blocked receptors and it does7900:06:05.019 --> 00:06:11.139support the pregnancy and it just remindsthe body that no, we do want8000:06:11.259 --> 00:06:15.420this baby. Take Pretty simple conceptor pretty amazing and it was developed by8100:06:15.459 --> 00:06:19.769one of our very own dietors righthere in Charlotte, right here at Cabaris8200:06:19.850 --> 00:06:25.410Women Center. Actually it was Ithink cabaris pregnancy center at the time,8300:06:25.529 --> 00:06:29.089but yeah, Dr Matthew Harrison andcame up with it. Actually, a8400:06:29.410 --> 00:06:33.639woman walked into the pregnancy center andwith her mother and said, my daughter's8500:06:33.680 --> 00:06:38.360taken this pill. There has tobe a way that we can get this8600:06:38.920 --> 00:06:41.639fixed. We have to be ableto reverse this. So they regretted it,8700:06:42.079 --> 00:06:45.360definitely regretted it. She told hermom what she did. Mom brought8800:06:45.399 --> 00:06:48.949her to us and and Dr MattHarrison was our medical director and so we8900:06:49.189 --> 00:06:54.389sent her over to him and hetells the story and he says, you9000:06:54.470 --> 00:06:56.230know, I had no idea whatto do. I just kind of went9100:06:56.269 --> 00:07:00.230out in the hall and prayed LordHelp me. Wow, what do I9200:07:00.350 --> 00:07:03.660do? And the Lord just droppedthis thought into his head. This is9300:07:03.899 --> 00:07:09.139how the abortion pill works. Whatcan you do to counteract that? Let's9400:07:09.180 --> 00:07:13.100flutter with progesterone. And how didhe happen to have progesterone? Is that9500:07:13.259 --> 00:07:17.129already is there already a met acollapplication of Proteus? PROGESTERONE is readily used.9600:07:17.250 --> 00:07:23.209It's widely used for women who havefrequent miscarriages. Okay, frequent.9700:07:23.449 --> 00:07:27.730It's very frequently used in the obstetricscommunity for things like that. Yeah,9800:07:28.170 --> 00:07:30.920so it isn't what you're doing.I mean, let's say, you know,9900:07:30.160 --> 00:07:33.879maybe a bad example your nurse.I'm not but I'm thinking. You10000:07:33.959 --> 00:07:38.839know, a kid swallows a,you know, some poison, something that's10100:07:38.839 --> 00:07:43.240poisonous. Sometimes a doctor, areyou called poison control and they'll say we'll10200:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.110have them dilute that with a bunchof water. Drink a bunch of water10300:07:46.189 --> 00:07:48.990and that will dilute any of thepoisonous effects. That's similar to what's going10400:07:49.069 --> 00:07:53.910on. Or like charcoal. Ifyou swallow poison and they say to take10500:07:53.949 --> 00:07:57.750charcoal, thatple kind of absorbs thepoison. Okay, I guess it would10600:07:57.750 --> 00:08:01.220be. It would be similar tothat, but it's just like a counter10700:08:01.379 --> 00:08:05.100effective measure to yea to yeah,re verse the effects. In that story,10800:08:05.300 --> 00:08:09.259which we actually have a video onour website, the Charlotte cities for10900:08:09.339 --> 00:08:15.610life website, of the story ofAshley Say Yeah, and and so you11000:08:15.689 --> 00:08:18.529guys can check out that story tokind of goes through it's you that baby11100:08:18.769 --> 00:08:22.769will saved. It was effective,awesome testimony. Will get in some more11200:08:22.810 --> 00:08:28.000of the testimonies here, but wedo know it's effective. Right. We've11300:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.240seen it's effect. How effective isit, though? I mean I know11400:08:31.319 --> 00:08:35.720it's hard to grab a percentage ornumber and say here's what it is,11500:08:35.000 --> 00:08:39.799but what's the general effectiveness rate ofit? Well, as of right now,11600:08:39.840 --> 00:08:43.669I think they're saying about sixty fourto sixty eight percent success rate,11700:08:45.549 --> 00:08:50.509and we have seen that the earlierthese women come for treatment, usually twenty11800:08:50.549 --> 00:08:56.379four hours or less, of startingthem on this protocol, and the further11900:08:56.460 --> 00:09:01.340along they are. Now you cantake the abortion pill here in North Carolina12000:09:01.379 --> 00:09:05.620up to ten weeks of pregnancy andthen you know, if I can see12100:09:05.620 --> 00:09:09.009a detectable heartbeat on an ultrasound andif I can get to you within twenty12200:09:09.049 --> 00:09:13.289four hours, your chances of successare really high. Sixty four to sixty12300:09:13.289 --> 00:09:18.330eight percent or the last statistics thatwe have. So that's pretty good teen12400:09:18.409 --> 00:09:20.409chances. I mean we'll talk alittle bit matter of fact. Let's just12500:09:20.450 --> 00:09:24.440go ahead and talk about that.On the sidewalk, because you do sidewalk12600:09:24.519 --> 00:09:26.240counseling as well. Your nurse onthe mobile unit, your nurse also in12700:09:26.799 --> 00:09:31.480to pregnancy centers, so you've seena lot of sides of this thing.12800:09:31.639 --> 00:09:37.200But on the sidewalk is we're offeringthe abortion peell reversal and we offer that12900:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.070in a way that, of course, we're not saying it's a hundred percent13000:09:41.190 --> 00:09:43.470that there baby can be saved.In your opinion, what are some of13100:09:43.509 --> 00:09:48.070the best ways for us to beoffering that? Yeah, I think one13200:09:48.070 --> 00:09:50.269of the best ways, and Ithink we do it really well here in13300:09:50.350 --> 00:09:54.700Charlotte, is just to have asign outside the exit of the abortion clinic13400:09:54.740 --> 00:09:58.340letting people know that it actually isan option. Yeah, I've heard so13500:09:58.379 --> 00:10:01.700many women who have called US andcome in for help that say they didn't13600:10:01.700 --> 00:10:05.779stop to talk to anybody because theywere scared, they were intimidated by clinic13700:10:05.860 --> 00:10:09.409staff, but they saw that signline and they knew it was a possibility.13800:10:09.730 --> 00:10:15.330Okay, so they went home andthey googled it and they come across13900:10:15.370 --> 00:10:18.850the abortion pill reversal information. SoI think that is one of the most14000:10:18.889 --> 00:10:24.240effective tools that I have seen used. And even just calling out as people14100:10:24.240 --> 00:10:26.879are leaving the clinic. You know, sometimes we don't know if they're there14200:10:26.919 --> 00:10:31.799for a surgical abortion or if they'rethere for a check up. But even14300:10:31.919 --> 00:10:35.750just calling out if you've taken theabortion pill, abortion pill reversalcom I've heard14400:10:35.830 --> 00:10:41.629many women say that they have heardthat and known it was a possibility and14500:10:41.750 --> 00:10:45.309going home and called that number.Yeah, and how often do you get14600:10:45.429 --> 00:10:48.909calls, say, in a typicalweek or month for abortion pill reversal?14700:10:50.259 --> 00:10:54.980Well, here in Charlotte we get, you know, probably three calls a14800:10:54.059 --> 00:11:00.379month. Okay, at the centersthat I work at, but I think14900:11:00.460 --> 00:11:05.649heartbeat internationals that they get about hundredand fifty calls a month and then they15000:11:05.730 --> 00:11:11.730distribute those referrals out to over fivehundred providers nationwide now. So that is15100:11:11.769 --> 00:11:16.169actually really exciting for me. I'mlike, we have this nationwide system of15200:11:16.769 --> 00:11:20.519providers who are willing to see thesewomen and offer them a second yeah,15300:11:20.519 --> 00:11:26.919that's that's awesome. And so sosomeone calls this hotline and and someone picks15400:11:26.960 --> 00:11:31.200up the phone and then how doesthat person get connected with someone who is15500:11:31.320 --> 00:11:35.990trained, and can you tell usa little bit about your role, because15600:11:35.029 --> 00:11:39.909you're one of those trained people thatthey call? How does that press this15700:11:39.070 --> 00:11:43.549work? So when they call thenumber, and there's so many options now15800:11:43.029 --> 00:11:46.820with technology, they can call,they can text, they can instant message,15900:11:46.980 --> 00:11:52.379they can email. To get connected, they call the abortion pill reversal16000:11:52.500 --> 00:11:58.220hotline or APR Hotline, and Idon't have that number, but heartbeat international16100:11:58.779 --> 00:12:03.450dot org is where it's run.Through our abortion pill reversalcom you can go16200:12:03.570 --> 00:12:07.769to. Yeah, Turfin International's moreof the provider side. Okay, abortion16300:12:07.809 --> 00:12:15.490pill reversalcom is the like for instantmessaging with patients. But so when they16400:12:15.529 --> 00:12:20.000get that call, they are connectedwith a nurse and that nurse kind of16500:12:20.240 --> 00:12:26.320takes their information, looks at theirlocation, finds a provider in their area16600:12:26.600 --> 00:12:33.029and then they call that provider andconnect that patient directly with that provider.16700:12:33.350 --> 00:12:37.190And would that be the nurse orwould that be the it just pregnancy resource16800:12:37.269 --> 00:12:41.429center? It depends on the location. For our location here in Charlotte,16900:12:41.789 --> 00:12:48.100they call our center directly and normallythat is our director at compair swim and17000:12:48.139 --> 00:12:52.980centers. That Sarah Ship perist.She takes those calls and kind of screens17100:12:54.019 --> 00:12:58.179them and then she and I togetherfind a time we actually see that patient17200:12:58.299 --> 00:13:01.250in our clinic. I do awhole medical assessment, we do an ultra17300:13:01.450 --> 00:13:05.970sound to confirm that that baby isstill alive and in the uterus and then17400:13:05.570 --> 00:13:11.529we get her started immediately on progesterone. Do you ever get calls at midnight?17500:13:11.570 --> 00:13:16.960Yes, all the time. Huh, frequently do you? Sarah?17600:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.360You go take care of that thatnot at midnight. We do have a17700:13:20.399 --> 00:13:24.039cutoff for that for safety reasons.But Sarah and I joke that we spend17800:13:24.080 --> 00:13:28.509every holiday together because it never failson Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve we17900:13:28.590 --> 00:13:33.269get a call and she and Iend up spending holidays and weekends after hours18000:13:33.309 --> 00:13:35.269together. Right and if it's reallylate, we always make one of our18100:13:35.309 --> 00:13:39.830husband's come with us. So yeah, Dane's my security a lot of times.18200:13:39.750 --> 00:13:43.259So the information is so I justjust googled on my phone. I'm18300:13:43.259 --> 00:13:48.779sure if people google abortion peel reversal, it's just abortion peel reversalcom. You18400:13:48.860 --> 00:13:52.419know, take them directly to theinformation they need. In the number is18500:13:52.860 --> 00:13:54.659eight, seven, seven, five, five. Eight hundredzero, three,18600:13:54.929 --> 00:13:58.169three, three, and that's thenumber that these MOMS would call into eats18700:13:58.529 --> 00:14:01.970and that they would get connected witha person who would ultimately get them connected18800:14:03.009 --> 00:14:07.210rights, connected with you. Sowalk us through real quick then, if18900:14:07.250 --> 00:14:09.450you can. I think we've alreadytalked a little bit about it, but19000:14:09.529 --> 00:14:11.879when somebody calls, I get intouch with you, you go to they19100:14:11.919 --> 00:14:16.840meet you at the center. Whatwhat's the first thing you do? Well,19200:14:16.879 --> 00:14:18.720the first thing we really feel likewe need to do is something that19300:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.639we would do for any patient thatwalk through our clinic. We want to19400:14:22.720 --> 00:14:28.429do a full assessment of their needs, their their social situation, because we19500:14:28.590 --> 00:14:33.830know that that woman didn't just takethe abortion pill because she felt like it19600:14:33.990 --> 00:14:37.070was a great day to take anabortion pill. She took it for a19700:14:37.149 --> 00:14:43.460reason. These women have abortions becausethey're desperate, they're scared, they're hopeless.19800:14:43.620 --> 00:14:46.940So we really want to make surewe know what her challenges and her19900:14:46.980 --> 00:14:50.779struggles are. So we have oneof our counselors meet with her and do20000:14:50.860 --> 00:14:54.129an assessment of that situation. Wedo a pregnancy test and then I do20100:14:54.210 --> 00:14:58.809an ultrasound to show her that babyin her womb okay, and you know,20200:14:58.889 --> 00:15:01.330that's kind of where we all holdher breath and just pray that that20300:15:01.330 --> 00:15:05.090baby still has a heartbeat. Yeah, because that's one of our biggest indicators20400:15:05.169 --> 00:15:09.399of if the abortion pill reversal isgoing to be successful or not, if20500:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.919is that baby still alive. Yeah, and then, you know, after20600:15:13.000 --> 00:15:16.879that, if the baby is stillalive, then we will get her started20700:15:16.919 --> 00:15:20.360on progesterone immediately. Every center isdifferent. That our center we like to20800:15:22.190 --> 00:15:26.309do a two part process. Wedo an injection first and then we send20900:15:26.309 --> 00:15:28.029her home with oral medication to take. Okay, yes, one of the21000:15:28.029 --> 00:15:33.309questions I was going to ask becauseI know with one of the other pregnancy21100:15:33.309 --> 00:15:37.500centers, with help pregnancy center,they do just oral medications and then,21200:15:37.860 --> 00:15:41.700like you said, each pregnancy centersdifferent. Each has their own medical directors21300:15:41.860 --> 00:15:45.820decide different things and example that.So, yeah, all right, I21400:15:45.820 --> 00:15:50.370appreciate you touching on that. Yeah, I'm really actually blessed to have just21500:15:50.730 --> 00:15:54.250such a great network of doctors herelocally that we work with. Yeah,21600:15:54.529 --> 00:15:58.570we work, I work personally withCobarras Women Center, who also has a21700:15:58.889 --> 00:16:03.559location in the university area called YouCity Women Center. In our medical director21800:16:03.720 --> 00:16:07.919they are is Dr Russell Suita.He's just a great guy to work with,21900:16:07.679 --> 00:16:12.200and also work for help pregnancy centerin Monroe with Dr Matthew Harrison,22000:16:12.240 --> 00:16:19.830also excellent doctor to work with,and they just are so available for our22100:16:19.870 --> 00:16:25.350patients and just really want to makesure we have the ability to take care22200:16:25.389 --> 00:16:29.990of these women the best we can. So very blessed to work with them22300:16:30.149 --> 00:16:32.590well. You know, I thinkit would be great for you to tell22400:16:32.629 --> 00:16:37.139us a story that that folks cancan really understand in true life what it22500:16:37.259 --> 00:16:41.899what has happened, if you could. I know we've shared some great abortion22600:16:41.980 --> 00:16:45.299for reversal story. So is theresome that stick in your mind? Is22700:16:45.379 --> 00:16:48.730maybe just walk us through what thatwas like and change the name, but22800:16:48.889 --> 00:16:52.330tell us, tell us about that, that woman situation and and her abortion22900:16:52.570 --> 00:16:57.289reversal story. I think one ofmy favorite ones is actually one that we23000:16:57.409 --> 00:17:02.080did together, Vicki. Her nameis Maria, okay, I'll go with23100:17:02.200 --> 00:17:06.480that, and you know, shehad come to the abortion clinic and immediately23200:17:06.519 --> 00:17:10.880regretted her decision, but she actuallycouldn't get to us. She was at23300:17:11.039 --> 00:17:15.559work and couldn't get away and,like I said, we're so honored to23400:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.230work with people who will bend overbackwards to help women and say babies,23500:17:19.269 --> 00:17:25.670and our director said, well,we have a mobile ultrasound machine, put23600:17:25.710 --> 00:17:26.829it in the back of your carand we can go to her. And23700:17:26.950 --> 00:17:33.940so me and you and Kelly Byrom, our medical director, packed up and23800:17:33.059 --> 00:17:38.380we drove to Maria's house. Andwhat we drove a few places, because23900:17:38.420 --> 00:17:41.740I recall we were kind of chasingher all over the city because of where24000:17:41.779 --> 00:17:45.609she was working. Or we wentto it the pregnancy resourcener, because I24100:17:45.650 --> 00:17:49.690remember I logged a hundred miles thatday drive in after Maria, we went24200:17:49.849 --> 00:17:55.569to help pregnancy center in Monroe andshe wasn't what maybe did? She got24300:17:55.650 --> 00:17:56.970she was going to be able tocome, but she actually wasn't able to24400:17:57.049 --> 00:18:02.160come and we knew that she wasfairly early in her pregnancy and we really24500:18:02.240 --> 00:18:06.000felt like we needed to get herstarted on progester and right away. So,24600:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.599yeah, we ended up packing upand going to her and I remember24700:18:08.599 --> 00:18:15.710her boyfriend was just so thankful andshocked that we would do something like that24800:18:15.990 --> 00:18:19.670just to save their baby. Andyou know, we went and we did24900:18:19.710 --> 00:18:25.109the ultrasound and we got her themedication and then she came back the next25000:18:25.150 --> 00:18:29.859day and met us very early inthe morning on a Sunday morning, and25100:18:30.180 --> 00:18:33.019we were able to you know,just make sure her baby was okay.25200:18:33.059 --> 00:18:37.619Right, and we were all Ithink it was. It was over the25300:18:37.779 --> 00:18:42.170recommended or right on the borderline ofthe recommended number of hours after she had25400:18:42.250 --> 00:18:48.089taken the pill. So I rememberI went home that night and prepared two25500:18:48.170 --> 00:18:52.769different scenario. was telling me twodifferent ways to share the Gospel, one25600:18:52.809 --> 00:18:56.599if the baby died and one ifthe baby was still alive. And Praise25700:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.559God, when we saw that heartbeat, we did a dance for joy.25800:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.240Did. Yeah, it was.Remember how far long she was? She25900:19:03.440 --> 00:19:07.200was around seven weeks, I think. Okay, so she's pretty early.26000:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.309Yeah, and I remember just thesense of urgency thinking, yeah, I26100:19:11.509 --> 00:19:15.509have to get her taking care oftoday, which is why we did a26200:19:15.589 --> 00:19:18.789wild goose chase. But right.And I remember when you did share the26300:19:18.869 --> 00:19:22.069Gospel with her and just that Samaand and the boyfriend, boy, they26400:19:22.109 --> 00:19:25.859were both there. Yeah, right, her and her boyfriend both were there26500:19:25.940 --> 00:19:30.619and I just remember them just beingso thankful and just kind of, you26600:19:30.700 --> 00:19:34.059know, explaining that free gift thatJesus gave and the second chance that they've26700:19:34.099 --> 00:19:38.369been given and them just looking eachother and like why wouldn't we turned our26800:19:38.609 --> 00:19:42.809was so incredible. Yeah, andthey both not only saved their little baby,26900:19:42.970 --> 00:19:47.690yeah, little baby boy now,but they both surrender their lives to27000:19:47.730 --> 00:19:51.609Jesus and they ended up getting marriedbecause they were so convicted by the truth27100:19:51.650 --> 00:19:53.720of the Gospel that they said webut we can't, we can't live together27200:19:53.839 --> 00:19:57.480and sin. They went and gotmarried. They went got married and the27300:19:57.519 --> 00:20:02.519last I heard from them they weredoing well. They're beautiful baby picture.27400:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.160Yeah, we have on the wallwere picture alone. Obviously those were listening27500:20:06.200 --> 00:20:10.230to the podcast. Yeah, wehave her picture holding her little baby boy27600:20:10.390 --> 00:20:11.990on the wall here, just asa celebration of what the Lord did in27700:20:12.069 --> 00:20:17.910that story. I think that wasmy first time seen an actual abortion pill27800:20:17.950 --> 00:20:22.339reversal success and it was. Itwas an incredible experience. Yeah. Well,27900:20:22.460 --> 00:20:27.579you know, praise God for thesuccesses in sidewalk counseling and any kind28000:20:27.579 --> 00:20:32.299of ministry. We praise God forthe successes, but there are also sometimes28100:20:32.420 --> 00:20:37.809what seems like defeats. I meanseventy percent effective, praise God it's that28200:20:37.890 --> 00:20:41.569effective, but it's not always effective. Right. There are some moms that28300:20:41.769 --> 00:20:45.849lose their babies. They regret takingthat abortion pell they wish they could undo28400:20:45.930 --> 00:20:48.450what they did. They get toyou, they start doing the abortion peel28500:20:48.490 --> 00:20:53.480reversal regiment and for whatever reason itdoesn't work. Yeah, how do you28600:20:53.680 --> 00:20:57.200deal with those situations? I meanthey're I know there's no cut and dry28700:20:57.279 --> 00:21:00.799easy way to do it. Obviouslywe need the Holy Spirit to help us,28800:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.950but there are stories like that andhow do you how do you deal28900:21:04.029 --> 00:21:08.269with that, from a medical perspective, but also from a just practical relational29000:21:08.349 --> 00:21:11.069perspective with them? Yeah, like, what do you say to them?29100:21:11.150 --> 00:21:18.740Yes, yeah, I'm listening.Yeah, well, it's definitely something,29200:21:18.779 --> 00:21:22.259unfortunately, that I have had todo several times. But for me personally,29300:21:22.539 --> 00:21:26.779I just know that we have allfallen short of the glory of God.29400:21:26.859 --> 00:21:30.460We've all sinned, we've all messedup, and you know what I29500:21:30.619 --> 00:21:36.809normally tell these people are I've sinnedand you send big time. Yeah,29600:21:37.250 --> 00:21:40.650and there are consequences to our sin. You know, just because we say29700:21:40.809 --> 00:21:45.809we're sorry and we repent doesn't meanthat we don't have to pay consequences.29800:21:45.890 --> 00:21:51.079Sometimes, we did everything we couldto save your little baby, but unfortunately29900:21:51.400 --> 00:21:55.799this baby wasn't strong enough to withstandthe effects of that first medication and,30000:21:56.599 --> 00:22:03.910you know, just coming at it, you know, imploring them to rely30100:22:03.029 --> 00:22:07.269on God for strength, yeah,for forgiveness. Yeah, and you kind30200:22:07.269 --> 00:22:14.470of have to counsel both from likea post abortive aspect and from a miscarriage30300:22:14.470 --> 00:22:18.299aspect, because they've gone from intentionallyending the life of their child to do30400:22:18.380 --> 00:22:22.819it in everything in their power asa mother to save their child. They've30500:22:22.859 --> 00:22:29.259had a complete change of heart andyou really have to it's a unique situation.30600:22:29.619 --> 00:22:30.930Absolutely. Yeah, and, likeyou said, you have to allow30700:22:30.970 --> 00:22:33.890on the Holy Spirit to give youthe words to say to them. I've30800:22:33.970 --> 00:22:37.809held many a woman while they wept. Yeah, over you know, the30900:22:37.930 --> 00:22:41.609consequences of their actions. They've said, you know, the Lord is punishing31000:22:41.690 --> 00:22:47.240me, I don't deserve this baby, and you just have to try to31100:22:47.400 --> 00:22:49.920your best to minister to them andwhere they are. Every woman's different.31200:22:49.960 --> 00:22:55.200Yeah, yeah, it is it. They have done something that is positive.31300:22:55.319 --> 00:22:59.509They have tried their hardest to savethat baby and I imagine that there31400:22:59.670 --> 00:23:06.589can be at least a little bitbetter emotional outcome knowing that at least they31500:23:06.670 --> 00:23:11.109did at that point they had turnedback to God and done everything that they31600:23:11.190 --> 00:23:15.140could just save the baby. Hasn'tto say it is sort of a unique31700:23:15.180 --> 00:23:21.859scenario we're in that they're, likeyou said, they're doing everything that they31800:23:21.940 --> 00:23:25.619can to say that Babe. Tome it has to at least in some31900:23:25.819 --> 00:23:30.089way satisfy some of that regrets.And you know that's some of the conversations,32000:23:30.089 --> 00:23:33.809because you you had in one ofyour questions. You're talking about the32100:23:33.849 --> 00:23:36.130pro abortion people and some of thethings they say. They say this is32200:23:36.329 --> 00:23:40.329fake or whatever, and I've hadconversations with pro abortion people on the sidewalks32300:23:40.410 --> 00:23:44.319and your bortion reversal thing is fakeand all of this, and I don't32400:23:44.400 --> 00:23:47.079respond to that a lot of times, but sometimes I have responded and say,32500:23:47.160 --> 00:23:48.319well, you know, it's notfake. It actually works. And32600:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.920why would you if you're against ifyou're for choice, why would you be32700:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.990against them choosing to do this?Yeah, and they've already gotten the money.32800:23:56.990 --> 00:24:00.589Yeah, and we know women regretabortions. Isn't it a good thing32900:24:00.710 --> 00:24:03.309that they're at least able in someway try to satisfy those regrets? You33000:24:03.390 --> 00:24:07.789know, and we I just thinkthat it has to be. It has33100:24:07.869 --> 00:24:11.339to be, has to be goodfor them to be able to do something.33200:24:11.380 --> 00:24:15.940You talk about empowering women, thatthey've empowered themselves to try to go33300:24:15.299 --> 00:24:18.339back on what they've done. Youknow. Yeah, and I mean it's33400:24:18.339 --> 00:24:23.690not like you're they're coming to youand you're deceiving them and not telling them33500:24:23.809 --> 00:24:27.329of the statistics, if not tellingthem what the risks are, right.33600:24:27.369 --> 00:24:30.609I mean that's part of your initialassessment, right. I don't want to33700:24:30.650 --> 00:24:34.890give anyone false hope, yeah,or, you know, expectations that can't33800:24:34.890 --> 00:24:37.720be met. Yeah, I can'tsee this. Access is not going to33900:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.559save every baby. There are goingto be babies that still die. Yeah,34000:24:41.759 --> 00:24:47.000and babies die from miscarriage, unfortunately. Yeah, there's many reasons why34100:24:47.039 --> 00:24:52.240women can't carry babies to term,but if I can offer them a second34200:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.269chance, then I think why wouldyou want to take that away from somebody34300:24:56.269 --> 00:24:59.390or not let them know? Yeah, that option right. Yeah, I34400:24:59.589 --> 00:25:03.470mean that's that'd be my thinking.Yeah, how have do you understand?34500:25:04.309 --> 00:25:08.819Because I don't why people, likeso many people that we meet out that34600:25:08.859 --> 00:25:14.259are the pro choice, people thatat the sidebook, why would they not34700:25:14.579 --> 00:25:18.140want us to offer that information orhelp? I mean, honestly, I34800:25:18.180 --> 00:25:22.569think it's just like your side versusmy side. This is a pro life34900:25:22.289 --> 00:25:26.890initiative. They're going to be againstit no matter what we say. Even35000:25:26.930 --> 00:25:32.930if I gave them every article underthe sun that says that every doctor in35100:25:33.009 --> 00:25:37.799America recommends this, I think theywould probably still not like it. Yeah,35200:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.839because it's from the pro life side. Yeah, so there's no basis35300:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.079in them saying this is fake.It's, you know, this is still,35400:25:45.079 --> 00:25:48.799quote unquote, and experimental procedures.It's not approved by the FDA,35500:25:49.190 --> 00:25:56.910it's not sanctioned by the American MedicalAssociation. We do have some Obie doctors35600:25:56.910 --> 00:26:02.069who are not okay with this.Yeah, because it's not been, you35700:26:02.150 --> 00:26:04.460know, researched very long. It'sstill, like I said, in an35800:26:04.500 --> 00:26:08.460experimental procedure. Is there any downsideto it, though? Is there anything35900:26:08.660 --> 00:26:12.740that that could harm the woman?There are, I mean, like I36000:26:12.819 --> 00:26:18.930said earlier, this medication is usedwidely for women who have preterm labor and36100:26:19.170 --> 00:26:25.609frequent miscarriages. It's the same exactmedication. Okay, it comes nausea,36200:26:25.769 --> 00:26:29.410just room right. Yes, progesteronis a naturally clearing hormone that's in our36300:26:29.450 --> 00:26:33.960body anyway. Right. I meanit can cause increase nause like I said,36400:26:33.720 --> 00:26:38.640headaches, fatigue, dizziness, butother than that, I mean there's36500:26:38.759 --> 00:26:45.319not any increased birth defects with it. So I don't know why. Yeah,36600:26:45.640 --> 00:26:48.509but you know, one of thethe very hypocritical things not to be36700:26:48.589 --> 00:26:52.029Labor this point too long. ButI've had conversations with pro choice people that36800:26:52.109 --> 00:26:53.589say that's fake and I'll ask him. Do you even know what the abortion36900:26:53.630 --> 00:26:57.069peel reversal is? Many don't,but if if they do, they say37000:26:57.109 --> 00:27:00.819what's Pagestro and pogesterone has this andthis this side effects. Well, so37100:27:00.940 --> 00:27:04.140there's the abortion pill. Yeah,and it's not being approved by the FDA.37200:27:04.299 --> 00:27:08.619So it's not been very long thatthat. CIDEOTECH, which is the37300:27:08.660 --> 00:27:14.019second medication, has been improved toinduce labor. And they because it was37400:27:14.059 --> 00:27:17.529a stomach medication first. Well,use it was for stomach ulcers. Yes,37500:27:17.809 --> 00:27:22.170so a lot of drugs that areused nowadays are using experimental ways and37600:27:22.289 --> 00:27:26.930not they're all label uses. Sothat's not really a very good argument against37700:27:26.009 --> 00:27:30.000this thing. I think it isexactly what you said. It's this us37800:27:30.039 --> 00:27:33.440against them dynamic comes from the prolifeside. Has To be horrible, you37900:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.240know, and it's just yes,the way. I think they also think38000:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.759that we manipulate these women into makingthis decision and make them feel so bad38100:27:41.119 --> 00:27:45.150that they're guilt ridden and then,you know, we forced them to do38200:27:45.349 --> 00:27:48.589this to ease their consciences, whichis not true at all. Well,38300:27:48.710 --> 00:27:52.750the bulk of the time it's peoplethat have not stopped and talked with us.38400:27:52.869 --> 00:27:56.230It's people that have gone home.That Maria actually researched it herself when38500:27:56.390 --> 00:28:00.259not sure she heard it from us. Yeah, I think they went home38600:28:00.339 --> 00:28:03.500and looked it up on the sactly. Yeah, yeah, we're thankfully now38700:28:03.779 --> 00:28:07.099Google, if you search, canI reverse the abortion peo? Yeah,38800:28:07.220 --> 00:28:11.420the APR website comes up like onthe top. That's awesome, which is38900:28:11.579 --> 00:28:17.329fantastic. Yeah, so, whilethis is not the happiest, probably part39000:28:17.329 --> 00:28:19.809of your experience. But how aboutwhen things don't work out? You have39100:28:19.930 --> 00:28:26.400a story of a sad outcome withAPR? I do have several of that39200:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.039stick out in my mind, butI think one of the saddest was a39300:28:30.160 --> 00:28:34.319young lady who had waited probably alittle too long to come in and call39400:28:34.960 --> 00:28:41.309and she ended up coming in Iwas getting ready to do her ultrasound and39500:28:41.869 --> 00:28:45.990she was doing the pregnancy test inthe bathroom and she just started wailing and39600:28:47.069 --> 00:28:51.710so I went to check on herand she was actually miscarrying into our our39700:28:51.789 --> 00:28:56.380toilet and our center, and Iended up just holding her while she miscarried39800:28:56.420 --> 00:29:03.660her little baby into the bathroom toiletand she just wept and wept and sobbed39900:29:03.779 --> 00:29:06.819and said, I would have donethis at home by myself if you wouldn't40000:29:06.819 --> 00:29:10.089have been here with me. Exactly. So in that situation, it just40100:29:10.170 --> 00:29:14.450gave me an opportunity to be therewith her, to hold her while she40200:29:14.609 --> 00:29:18.210did that, and also us tojust share the gospel with her. She40300:29:18.410 --> 00:29:22.250was broken, she was hurting,she was helped, you know, hopeless,40400:29:23.009 --> 00:29:27.519and she needed Jesus. Yeah,so bad. So in that situation,40500:29:27.559 --> 00:29:32.039as you held her, you didn'twhisper in her ear you're going to40600:29:32.119 --> 00:29:34.799the lake of fire. I didnot. Yeah, we've talked about that40700:29:34.880 --> 00:29:38.109in our podcast. We talked aboutbalancing grace and truth. Yeah, you40800:29:38.190 --> 00:29:41.869know, Jesus, the Bible sayshe doesn't Quinch a smoking flax, nor40900:29:41.950 --> 00:29:45.789break a Bruise Reeve. When someone'salready broken, you don't need to add41000:29:45.829 --> 00:29:48.589more to it. But the Gospeldoes need to be shared, right.41100:29:48.630 --> 00:29:52.140I mean there's there's a realization,and I don't think you even had to41200:29:52.220 --> 00:29:55.940tell her you killed your child,like you right, took part in this.41300:29:56.819 --> 00:29:59.420She already knew that. But yeah, just to come in, because41400:29:59.420 --> 00:30:02.980at that point what happens? Eitherthe devil gets ahold of her. Look41500:30:03.019 --> 00:30:04.779what you've done, there's no salvationfor you. You can never be redeemed41600:30:04.819 --> 00:30:07.650all of this, or the Lordgets ahold offer and says, come to41700:30:07.730 --> 00:30:11.329me, yes, you've sinned,but I'm a savior, you know,41800:30:11.809 --> 00:30:15.170and that's awesome that you were therein that story. So that's a sad41900:30:15.210 --> 00:30:18.809story, but it's also a redeemingstory. Yeah, and God's a redeemer.42000:30:18.849 --> 00:30:22.319Yeah, and I just think ofall the other women who have been42100:30:22.359 --> 00:30:26.400sit home, sent home, anddone the exact same thing alone. Yeah,42200:30:26.720 --> 00:30:33.119and and been left to be hopeless. And that's when you hear of,42300:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.029you know, women who deal withdepression, post abortion and and suicide42400:30:37.069 --> 00:30:41.750and drug abuse and alcohol abuse.Yeah, it's because of what they've been42500:30:41.950 --> 00:30:45.829through and what they've seen and theyhave to, you know, numb that42600:30:45.950 --> 00:30:48.430memory in some way. So,yeah, it that's exactly where my thoughts42700:30:48.430 --> 00:30:55.579when is all the abortion. Mindeddetermined women who then go through with the42800:30:55.660 --> 00:30:59.740abortion and so many have regret.I believe at some point in that life42900:30:59.859 --> 00:31:03.569all will. Yeah, but they'rethey have bought into a lie and there's43000:31:03.609 --> 00:31:10.369no one there to comfort them.Yeah, yeah, praise God. You43100:31:10.450 --> 00:31:14.569know, God is a redeemer.God is a god of second chances,43200:31:15.049 --> 00:31:18.559and US just talking about this onthe Gospel Center pro life podcast, talking43300:31:18.640 --> 00:31:22.839about the redemption. The even comewithin the midst of an abortion pill and43400:31:22.880 --> 00:31:29.480then the second chance to be ableto reverse that is that's that's God inspired.43500:31:29.559 --> 00:31:32.720You think about Dr Matten, himseeking God and pray and say what43600:31:32.799 --> 00:31:34.190do I do in the situation,and God drops us in his heart's just43700:31:34.349 --> 00:31:37.589like the Lord to be a redeemerlike that. It's just like the Lord43800:31:37.670 --> 00:31:41.430and that woman situation to have someonethere. It's just like the Lord and43900:31:41.789 --> 00:31:45.670Maria situation that have you guys comeand meet her and do that abortion peal44000:31:45.750 --> 00:31:49.339reversal. So I think with that, well, you've covered all the bases44100:31:49.380 --> 00:31:52.220I wanted to cover with this.Anything else you wanted to mention in Courtney,44200:31:52.420 --> 00:31:56.779before we wrap this thing up?No, just if you are a44300:31:56.940 --> 00:32:00.450pregnancy center or a doctor that wantsto be involved, or even a nurse44400:32:00.529 --> 00:32:04.930that wants to learn how to getinvolved with this. You can go to44500:32:05.009 --> 00:32:08.130heartbeat international dot organ they will,they would be they would love to talk44600:32:08.250 --> 00:32:12.369with you and share with you howyou can get involved. Yeah, we44700:32:12.490 --> 00:32:16.039need, like I said, wehave providers, over five hundred medical providers44800:32:16.599 --> 00:32:20.799in the country, but they're goinginternational with this. We want this available44900:32:20.880 --> 00:32:24.039everywhere, and the more it's available, the more readily accepted it'll be,45000:32:24.200 --> 00:32:30.470and that is endorsements from these bigAma and FDA will come. Yeah,45100:32:30.670 --> 00:32:32.630yeah, let me ask you.I do you have one more question.45200:32:32.670 --> 00:32:37.430I think you do know the answerto this. How how many, approximately,45300:32:37.630 --> 00:32:43.029how many successful abortion pill reversals havethere been, either in our state45400:32:43.150 --> 00:32:45.019nationwide? Would what? Do youhave any of those numbers? I don't45500:32:45.059 --> 00:32:50.380have statewide, but an heartbeat doescollect data and we try to, you45600:32:50.460 --> 00:32:53.740know, collect statistics so that wecan, like I said, validate this45700:32:53.980 --> 00:33:00.130procedure right in sciences eyes, andI think the last I saw was over45800:33:00.210 --> 00:33:04.849a thousand babies have been born amazingas a you know, successfully after this45900:33:05.049 --> 00:33:09.329procedure. Yeah, just hearing thatnumber and hearing that the the pro choice46000:33:09.369 --> 00:33:14.240group says that all women don't regretan abortion. Well, that number immediately46100:33:14.279 --> 00:33:16.920puts the light of the Destin't it? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, thank46200:33:16.960 --> 00:33:21.960you for coming and sharing. You'rewelcome. We really you. Means you46300:33:22.039 --> 00:33:24.279have been my favorite guests? Yeah, but that we've had some good ones.46400:33:24.319 --> 00:33:29.390We have, but we barely appreciatewhat you do. It is awesome.46500:33:29.630 --> 00:33:31.990Yeah, Amen, it is awesome. All right, guys. Well,46600:33:32.069 --> 00:33:36.349we appreciate you listening to the GospelCenter per life podcast. We appreciate46700:33:36.390 --> 00:33:39.470if you guys would share this ashare it with friends that work in pregnancy46800:33:39.549 --> 00:33:43.220centers, share it with other peoplewho are sidewalk counselors, people are not.46900:33:43.220 --> 00:33:45.259Just share with all your friends andfamily. Go to our website,47000:33:45.859 --> 00:33:51.460www dot sidewalks for life, sidewalksnumber four, lifecom, where we put47100:33:51.500 --> 00:33:53.259out articles on a regular basis.Of course, you can check in on47200:33:53.339 --> 00:33:57.650our website, Charlotte dot cities forLife Dot Org, here locally. We47300:33:57.730 --> 00:34:05.490appreciate you, guys listening. Untilnext time, God bless O. Love47400:34:05.690 --> 00:34:16.960for love, give me our lovefor gratitude. I know it will cost47500:34:17.159 --> 00:34:25.110me my life. No things tooprecious, and some you