Aug. 5, 2021

What if they turn back to abortion?

What if they turn back to abortion?

By God's grace, we get to see moms choose life at the abortion centers and even hold their precious babies months later. However, there are times when we minister to a mom who chooses life one day but sadly goes back to the abortion center and has an...


By God's grace, we get to see moms choose life at the abortion centers and even hold their precious babies months later. However, there are times when we minister to a mom who chooses life one day but sadly goes back to the abortion center and has an abortion. As followers of Jesus, how do we deal with that situation in a way that shows the mercy of God but also upholds the standards of scripture. Join us as we talk this through. 

 https://sidewalks4life.com/what-if-they-turn-back-to-abortion/

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.440 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord, 2 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:10.910 I am yours, and welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. 3 00:00:10.990 --> 00:00:14.230 In this episode we're going to talk about what to do if a mom that 4 00:00:14.349 --> 00:00:18.550 you thought chose life turned back on that decision and had an abortion. How 5 00:00:18.589 --> 00:00:27.620 do you minister to them? Stay tuned. I felt show passish, touch 6 00:00:28.059 --> 00:00:37.770 your heart. Use Me. Welcome back to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. 7 00:00:38.130 --> 00:00:42.329 Appreciate you guys joining us and we would appreciate if you guys would share 8 00:00:42.329 --> 00:00:45.210 this podcast with others. Let it be a blessing to them if it's a 9 00:00:45.250 --> 00:00:48.969 blessing to you. If it's not, then let us know. If these 10 00:00:49.009 --> 00:00:53.280 podcasts have not have been a blessing, we've covered subjects that have no application 11 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:56.799 to you, then please reach out and let us know what subjects we can 12 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:59.880 cover that could apply to you. That would help you. But we trust, 13 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:03.950 because we've gotten some positive feedback, these episodes I have been a blessing 14 00:01:03.989 --> 00:01:08.189 and we're trying to answer questions that people have and we're trying to cover subjects 15 00:01:08.629 --> 00:01:12.510 they really come on our radar from our counselors, from our missionaries across the 16 00:01:12.549 --> 00:01:18.269 nation, from our local counselors from ourselves and our own experiences as things come 17 00:01:18.349 --> 00:01:22.180 up. Yeah, pretty much. You know, you get to write in 18 00:01:22.219 --> 00:01:26.739 an article and then we talk through it and then we do a podcast based 19 00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:29.939 on it. So that's what this is for. That's what the foundation of 20 00:01:30.019 --> 00:01:34.129 this podcast it is. It is. It's one of our missionaries that contacted 21 00:01:34.209 --> 00:01:37.890 us and was in the situation we're going to talk about today and said, 22 00:01:37.930 --> 00:01:40.530 I just don't know how to handle this. Yeah, what should I do? 23 00:01:40.890 --> 00:01:45.010 Yeah, so jumping right into it. What is that situation? Well, 24 00:01:45.329 --> 00:01:49.159 she had counseled a woman who chose life. Okay, counseled her extensively 25 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:53.040 for quite a it sounds like for a few weeks in fact, okay, 26 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.239 and the woman was very committed to life, going to church and everything, 27 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:02.069 and then all of a sudden chose to go have an abortion. Wow, 28 00:02:02.150 --> 00:02:07.310 and I don't think she told them until after she had had the abortion. 29 00:02:07.229 --> 00:02:14.389 And so that missionary there were two real issues. First of all, her 30 00:02:14.430 --> 00:02:19.379 own anger grief. She said she felt betrayed. She said she just wanted 31 00:02:19.419 --> 00:02:23.539 to condemn and scream. She was she was hurt, she was angry. 32 00:02:24.139 --> 00:02:28.939 She knew that would not be the proper response. But but that was where 33 00:02:28.979 --> 00:02:32.169 she was emotionally. She had poured into this woman and on the other hand 34 00:02:32.729 --> 00:02:36.689 she was thinking, well, what now? Weird, where do you go 35 00:02:36.930 --> 00:02:39.969 now? Do you just stop contact with this woman? What's what should we 36 00:02:40.009 --> 00:02:46.479 do? Yes, a Gospel centered prolife ministry. Yeah, well, first 37 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:50.400 and foremost, I'll say it might be easy to kind of look at the 38 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:54.039 success stories and think that all the stories that we have our success stories. 39 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:58.710 We talked about that, as we talked about, I think, dealing with 40 00:02:58.830 --> 00:03:05.590 discouragement and when success is not always successful. I think was some been a 41 00:03:05.669 --> 00:03:07.789 while back since we did that. We talked a little bit about this. 42 00:03:07.870 --> 00:03:10.189 But this, this experience, is a reality that you're going to deal with. 43 00:03:10.229 --> 00:03:13.500 It is yes, if you're out there, babies are going to be 44 00:03:13.539 --> 00:03:16.219 saved, lives are going to be changed, praise God. But people, 45 00:03:17.379 --> 00:03:21.939 even if they choose life, if they don't surrender their lives to Jesus, 46 00:03:22.180 --> 00:03:27.020 m still our centers and they're still tempted to go back on that decision. 47 00:03:27.139 --> 00:03:31.849 So the fact that a woman chose life in that moment does not always solidify 48 00:03:31.930 --> 00:03:36.210 that choice right and it is not always mean that she's not going to turn 49 00:03:36.250 --> 00:03:38.889 back. That's why we talk so much about discipleship and getting them plugged into 50 00:03:38.889 --> 00:03:44.120 a mentor mentorship program, get them plugged into a church, because we want 51 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:50.719 to surround them with the body of Christ and be really with them and walk 52 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:53.639 with them so that when the devil comes with his lies, when the boyfriend 53 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:58.310 who pressured her to have the abortion comes back around with his lies, then 54 00:03:58.349 --> 00:04:00.750 we can help squash those lives with the truth of God and remind them that 55 00:04:00.870 --> 00:04:04.150 we're here for them, remind them of their choice for life. Right. 56 00:04:04.310 --> 00:04:09.069 And one of the things, another little addition to the story, was the 57 00:04:09.150 --> 00:04:14.419 woman then, if I did admit, yes, she had abhorted and kind 58 00:04:14.460 --> 00:04:17.540 of put on fake grief, it was like, but it was. It 59 00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:21.220 was sad, but it was really for the best, right. And so 60 00:04:21.540 --> 00:04:27.889 going back then, as though none of the counseling at all had it sunk 61 00:04:27.970 --> 00:04:30.970 in. No, this is not for the best. Killing your baby is 62 00:04:30.089 --> 00:04:35.410 not for the best and you knew that. So it was part of what 63 00:04:35.689 --> 00:04:43.079 that missionary that talked with me was grappling with. was there's no remorse. 64 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.879 Yeah, and that added to the anger that there was fake remorse. Right, 65 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:50.920 it was not more like the worldly sorrow. That's right, more like 66 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:56.470 a human just regret. Yeah, I regret that. I I regret that 67 00:04:56.550 --> 00:04:59.029 I made a good decision for myself. It's like it is. It makes 68 00:04:59.029 --> 00:05:01.910 it sense R now. It didn't add a godly sorrow. There's not a 69 00:05:02.110 --> 00:05:08.420 true repentance. Yeah, now. And so we thought about this, we 70 00:05:08.579 --> 00:05:12.899 talked about this and we wrote an article about this. But but one of 71 00:05:12.939 --> 00:05:15.379 the things that I know is true, because I've done a little bit of 72 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:17.420 research about it, is, well, a lot of research about it actually, 73 00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:24.810 is that post abortive women, the overwhelming initial response is relief. Yeah, 74 00:05:24.889 --> 00:05:29.730 and that can last a year, maybe even more. Yeah, and 75 00:05:30.129 --> 00:05:36.000 what's interesting is so many of the pro choice studies about abortion post abortion say 76 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:41.279 the women feel relief, they don't suffer from abortion. But if you look 77 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.720 at those studies, most of them are very short term following the abortion. 78 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:49.910 They're not long term follow up studies. And the longer that a woman is 79 00:05:51.069 --> 00:05:58.389 from that act, it seems that the Morse grows, the grief grows, 80 00:05:58.509 --> 00:06:01.750 the recognition of what they did Gross, especially if they had had no children 81 00:06:02.149 --> 00:06:08.139 and then they have children and there comes then crashing down on them what they 82 00:06:08.259 --> 00:06:12.779 really did, or if they come, like in my situation, from no 83 00:06:13.060 --> 00:06:18.170 faith to coming to faith and then the recognition of what you did. So 84 00:06:19.410 --> 00:06:24.170 what our missionary was asking is a very important question and I think that there 85 00:06:24.209 --> 00:06:28.129 are strategies, there are things we can and should do, but I think 86 00:06:28.170 --> 00:06:31.879 it's important to understand that dynamic. Most of these women really do just feel 87 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:39.759 relief and it's going to be difficult to bring them past that to from well, 88 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:43.560 the Bible talks about going from worldly grief to godly grief. Yeah, 89 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:48.790 and to a repentance of these to nation. When we oversimplify things, and 90 00:06:48.910 --> 00:06:53.949 this is what I have seen in some of the pro abortion studies and statements 91 00:06:54.790 --> 00:07:00.189 that talk about women don't regret abortions, is they oversimplify human emotions. Yeah, 92 00:07:00.269 --> 00:07:03.660 and they imagine, or at least try to try to pretend, like 93 00:07:04.339 --> 00:07:10.540 it's true that you can't have relief and regret at the same time, but 94 00:07:10.660 --> 00:07:14.259 you certainly can, and we know that right. Yeah, I mean even 95 00:07:14.339 --> 00:07:17.370 just simply like buyer's remorse is one of those things where you you have relief 96 00:07:17.449 --> 00:07:20.850 that you've bought this thing you've always wanted, then you got remorse because now, 97 00:07:20.850 --> 00:07:25.370 I gotta say for it's been that money right. So, just pro 98 00:07:26.009 --> 00:07:30.079 speaking, relief and regret can be can really happen to the same time, 99 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.839 alongside of each other, and so I will agree with pro aborts to women 100 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:38.199 feel relief. I won't say all women feel relief, because we know that 101 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:41.560 not to be true. So then we see immediate regret that it's probably more 102 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.269 the exception. Oh Yeah, I'm sure, but just to imagine then that 103 00:07:45.350 --> 00:07:48.509 I mean, I would say in one sense that woman who feels overwhelming regret 104 00:07:49.509 --> 00:07:54.670 probably feels a little bit of relief and maybe, by that same token, 105 00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:58.939 that woman that feels maybe your overwhelming relief, likely feels a little bit of 106 00:07:59.019 --> 00:08:03.060 regret. And I'll say that that has actually borne out in my experience and 107 00:08:03.259 --> 00:08:05.500 even what you're talking about with this young lady. It seems to be the 108 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:09.259 case with her, because after all, it was just relief and abortion was 109 00:08:09.379 --> 00:08:13.410 no big deal. Why is she trying to justify it? I know, 110 00:08:13.529 --> 00:08:16.449 why is she? Why is she saying things like well, I know it 111 00:08:16.569 --> 00:08:20.209 was not the right decision, but it's for the best. Yeah, we 112 00:08:20.410 --> 00:08:24.449 know what she's doing is she's trying to convince herself that what she did was 113 00:08:24.529 --> 00:08:28.759 okay, that it wasn't wrong. And but even with that convincing like, 114 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:31.960 we're not convinced. We know that it's wrong and they know that it's wrong, 115 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:35.840 which is why you're saying something to the effect of God will forgive me 116 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:39.559 anyway, because that's what you hear a lot of times to yes, God 117 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.669 give me. It is it's not sin. What is he forgiving you? 118 00:08:41.750 --> 00:08:50.070 Of? Exactly exactly. And so first at first of all, help that 119 00:08:50.629 --> 00:08:56.740 counselor to work through her feelings, which you're very valid. She has been 120 00:08:56.820 --> 00:09:01.100 betrayed in a sense. This this woman made some sort of, if not 121 00:09:01.259 --> 00:09:05.700 a promise, a kind of a commitment the councilor at port or her heart 122 00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:11.129 into that little baby, and so it is natural to to be hurt, 123 00:09:11.370 --> 00:09:16.370 to be angry, to feel like what happened? Why did you do this? 124 00:09:18.970 --> 00:09:22.009 But I don't think that's where I don't know how much of that is 125 00:09:22.289 --> 00:09:26.320 is a good idea to share with the mom. Maybe some, maybe some, 126 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:28.320 would be okay to share with her. I've had those situations. I 127 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:33.440 know you have to, and in a lot of ways you've poured your life 128 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.480 out for them and you've dug for resources for them. You've they've Crod on 129 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:41.669 your shoulder, not on your telephone. Right. They've they've got things that 130 00:09:41.750 --> 00:09:45.509 you've talked with him through. You've kind of built a relationship and a fringe, 131 00:09:46.149 --> 00:09:48.590 right, and it is, in one sense a betrayaler. It could 132 00:09:48.629 --> 00:09:54.179 be if you've built that relationship over a period of time, and I think 133 00:09:54.259 --> 00:09:58.340 to voice that is not a bad thing. Yeah, and really I think 134 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.779 it could bring that that real sense of conviction that you know what. This 135 00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.259 is a big deal. Yeah, yeah, as and it of course it 136 00:10:05.539 --> 00:10:09.210 should not be all about the counselor it. It should be about the baby, 137 00:10:09.889 --> 00:10:13.490 which she did the the that, but it is. It is a 138 00:10:13.850 --> 00:10:18.049 a and affront to the councilor who has has befriended her, and I know 139 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:20.639 when it has happened to me, if I do have a relationship, I 140 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:24.159 care with this Satan year old I've been counsel seen forever. She's due now 141 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:28.000 in a month. I don't know what I'm going to talk about when rinch 142 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:30.879 finally has a baby, because she's so of so many of my stories. 143 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:35.029 But there were many, many periods of time when we'd been friends. Now 144 00:10:35.110 --> 00:10:39.830 I'd been counseling her hours and hours a day really for months, where then 145 00:10:39.909 --> 00:10:45.669 at like twenty weeks she said she was going to go aboard and my response 146 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:50.580 was, I would call it righteous anger. At that point I I really 147 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:56.179 gave very hard truths. Yeah, without really any hold spart, because I 148 00:10:56.580 --> 00:11:01.860 felt like, okay, I've been Nice, right, I've played the nice 149 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:03.649 girl. Now it's found to lay down, you know, and I had 150 00:11:03.730 --> 00:11:09.169 said everything Ye, so many times and there comes the point that you just 151 00:11:09.529 --> 00:11:15.129 really need, I think, to to bring home the point what you're about 152 00:11:15.169 --> 00:11:16.370 to do, or what you have done, if you've gone through with it, 153 00:11:16.769 --> 00:11:22.519 is sin. Yeah, absolutely. So I want to say before we 154 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:26.960 jump into some of the the guess in depth right this conversation, there's a 155 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:30.480 couple of ways this could play out and particularly the angle we're coming from, 156 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:33.629 because this was the experience of the missionary you're talking about. Is You built 157 00:11:33.669 --> 00:11:39.590 a long term relationship, like she chose life one day and then you've walked 158 00:11:39.629 --> 00:11:43.750 with her, you've followed up with her, you've tried to connect her with 159 00:11:43.789 --> 00:11:46.029 the mentor, you've built some kind of relationship and over the course of weeks 160 00:11:46.340 --> 00:11:50.460 that she turns back. But it can also take place in the moment actually 161 00:11:50.460 --> 00:11:54.820 at the abortion center where you've poured everything out you could. You've taken them 162 00:11:54.820 --> 00:11:58.220 on board the Mobultra sound unit, or you've taken them to a pregnancy center 163 00:11:58.580 --> 00:12:01.450 and then you see the next day they've come right back to the abortion center. 164 00:12:01.529 --> 00:12:05.649 So we've had those situations as well. Yeah, so how do you 165 00:12:05.769 --> 00:12:09.129 deal with that? And when you see them, and I'm recalling a situation 166 00:12:09.250 --> 00:12:13.210 where this happened not terribly long ago, we poured out to this mother and 167 00:12:13.409 --> 00:12:16.000 we helped her when we showed her all the resources, all the things that 168 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:20.080 were available to her. Every issue, situation she was facing, there was 169 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:24.000 an answer for it, every reason to choose life. She chose life in 170 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.559 that particular day and then a couple days later she comes back and actually I 171 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.909 saw her going in and she actually hid behind one of the posts out in 172 00:12:33.029 --> 00:12:37.230 front of the latter abortion center. There's like these columns and behind that tie 173 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:39.509 because from you, to hide from me. Yeah, she was ashamed. 174 00:12:39.669 --> 00:12:43.980 She was a shame and she apparently went in with the abortion, went in 175 00:12:45.019 --> 00:12:48.500 and had the abortion and she's driving out of the abortion center after having had 176 00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:52.620 the abortion. How do you deal with that? So, yeah, be 177 00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:56.220 a long term thing, can be a short term thing. What do you 178 00:12:56.340 --> 00:13:00.610 say, because we want to have this balance between grace and truth that we 179 00:13:00.690 --> 00:13:03.970 talked about, right, and we in a sense, in our righteous indignation, 180 00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:07.889 we want to lay the hammer down and say, you wicked person, 181 00:13:09.169 --> 00:13:11.960 look what you did. Yeah, but also we know that's not going to 182 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.879 be helpful, right, that's not going to be helpful at all for us 183 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.519 just to kind of unleash all of our anger. But it's also not going 184 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.559 to be helpful for us to just say it's no big deal, I'm sorry, 185 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:26.840 you made that. Mistakes and yeah, who what is helpful anyway? 186 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:31.309 Don't say that just with this right off. Don't say that God loves you 187 00:13:31.350 --> 00:13:33.629 anyway, because then you've just made an allowance for sin. Is that true? 188 00:13:33.830 --> 00:13:37.750 You can say a true thing in a wrong time and it be taken 189 00:13:37.789 --> 00:13:43.019 completely in the direction Gott never intended it. Right. So, of course 190 00:13:43.299 --> 00:13:46.340 the best place, in my opinion, to go to answers, because I 191 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:48.259 wrestled with this. We all wrestle with this. It's not easy, and 192 00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:52.220 don't don't get me wrong. Even as we give you these pointers, it 193 00:13:52.419 --> 00:13:56.090 doesn't make it easy. It's not easy, right, but I I went 194 00:13:56.169 --> 00:14:01.570 to the Bible and and thought, okay, is there any situation in the 195 00:14:01.690 --> 00:14:09.000 Bible where someone who is supposedly doing the right thing, a righteous human being, 196 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:15.960 who turns to sin then letting down all those around him? Yeah, 197 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.159 and then someone confronts him, and I thought of the story of David and 198 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:26.029 Beth Sheeba. Sure, and Nathan. Yeah, Nathan was amazing in and 199 00:14:26.350 --> 00:14:33.309 how he confronted David in in the aftermath of the sin with with Beth Sheeba 200 00:14:33.309 --> 00:14:37.899 and the murder of Beth Sheeba's husband. You're Riah. So what? Basically, 201 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:41.340 what? What at this isn't, by the way, Second Samuel Twelve. 202 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:43.860 Yes, for all of you. That maybe when I wasn't going to 203 00:14:43.899 --> 00:14:52.100 read the whole thing, although maybe we should. But Nay. Then tells 204 00:14:52.179 --> 00:14:56.649 David he knows what's happened with Best Sheba and Bath Sheba is now pregnant with 205 00:14:56.850 --> 00:15:01.450 David's child and Uriah, the husband of Beth Sheba, has been put in 206 00:15:01.529 --> 00:15:05.490 the front line so that he will be killed on purpose by David to cover 207 00:15:05.850 --> 00:15:11.080 the sin. And then David Takes Best Sheba into his home, has his 208 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:16.320 wife. And so Nathan is outraged and he the way he deals with it 209 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.629 is he tells us a story. Yeah, to David. Great story about 210 00:15:20.629 --> 00:15:26.590 a poor man who owns one lamb, I think. Yeah, and the 211 00:15:28.470 --> 00:15:33.789 family pet lamb, family pet lamb. It was very precious and I can't 212 00:15:33.830 --> 00:15:37.899 remember who the person power was. was he the king, someone that was 213 00:15:37.220 --> 00:15:41.019 a rich man, a rich man man? Yeah, far from him. 214 00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:45.820 And Kay in a position of power. Yeah, and he takes the poor 215 00:15:45.899 --> 00:15:50.370 man who's in a position of he was a rich guy. He didn't need 216 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:54.409 the lamb, but he took the poor man's lamb. Yeah, he had 217 00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:56.850 a visitor come, even though he had lambs of his own. And Chris, 218 00:15:58.250 --> 00:16:02.529 the analogy is that near David had plenty of it hit so many whites, 219 00:16:02.529 --> 00:16:04.039 all right and all that. Why would you go and take someone else's 220 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:08.799 right? So he tells his story. Yeah, and doesn't say anything about 221 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:11.960 you know, doesn't even use that the rich man was a king or something 222 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.720 to make it real obvious. He just tells the story and David is outraged, 223 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:21.470 HMM and and and says that this rich man must be severely punished. 224 00:16:21.549 --> 00:16:25.149 How could he do this? How can we take from the poor guy who 225 00:16:25.190 --> 00:16:29.669 had just this one little lamb? How could he take that when he had 226 00:16:29.789 --> 00:16:36.700 so much and Nathan then says that man is you. Yeah, and that 227 00:16:37.019 --> 00:16:41.580 was the finger points the thing, that man is you. Doesn't, you 228 00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:48.730 know, pour out anger or name calling, just that simple statement that man 229 00:16:49.330 --> 00:16:57.610 is you, yeah, and that convicts David powerfullet. So Nathan used a 230 00:16:57.730 --> 00:17:03.519 principle that Jesus uses and I think we could use frequently, and I think 231 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:08.759 we do actually in ministry, and that is the power of story. Yeah, 232 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:14.440 and parallel stories and allergies. He's yeah, those are so powerful. 233 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:15.670 Now we might not be able to come up with that. I mean this 234 00:17:15.829 --> 00:17:19.470 was brilliant. I should I thought when Nathan came up with it was inspired 235 00:17:19.509 --> 00:17:22.150 by the Lord, inspired by God. So we you know, yes, 236 00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:26.710 I can we be inspired by God and dealing with women, I'm of course 237 00:17:26.829 --> 00:17:33.180 we can, but there are certainly testimonies that that we can share that maybe 238 00:17:33.579 --> 00:17:37.380 can help that woman to recognize, yeah, what she has done, the 239 00:17:37.579 --> 00:17:45.130 depth of what she has done, maybe further humanizing and personalizee. Maybe what 240 00:17:45.250 --> 00:17:49.769 that baby went through or what that baby has missed to out on. Yeah, 241 00:17:51.130 --> 00:17:56.289 absolutely, and I think it given the proper scenario, sharing this very 242 00:17:56.450 --> 00:18:02.079 story, yeah, with a mom, yeah, who has had an abortion 243 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:06.200 and has not felt the conviction of it. Yeah, and then going right 244 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:10.759 to Psalm fifty one, which I believe is the outflow of this story of 245 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:15.029 David, of his brokenness and contrition before the Lord for his sin. When 246 00:18:15.069 --> 00:18:18.309 Nathan points to finger and says that guy is you right right, David breaks 247 00:18:18.390 --> 00:18:22.470 down in repentance and Psalm fifty one, yes, can read that, but 248 00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:26.940 I believe that's David's Song of repentance to God. You're right at you and 249 00:18:27.019 --> 00:18:30.460 you alone of a sin and none one is evil in your side. That's 250 00:18:30.460 --> 00:18:33.339 what he says in some fifty one. Yeah, and and talk going through 251 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:38.779 that psalm with a mom and helping her to recognize she clearly sinned against the 252 00:18:38.900 --> 00:18:44.609 child, but ultimately that sin was against God himself. Yeah, and in 253 00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:49.170 rebellion, and I think that is the important thing that we're aiming at when 254 00:18:49.210 --> 00:18:52.170 we're looking for because what are we looking for? We're looking for repentance, 255 00:18:52.210 --> 00:18:56.720 right. We're not just looking for sorrow, we're not just looking for tears. 256 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.480 Listen, people crowed tears for all kinds of things, but we're looking 257 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.599 for godly sorrow. We're looking for what it says in Psalm fifty one, 258 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:08.880 what David said. Yeah, is it. They acknowledge that they send against 259 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:14.029 God, and I think it's important for us in these conversations. Then we 260 00:19:14.109 --> 00:19:18.470 can do it graciously. I don't know that we. You have to be 261 00:19:18.789 --> 00:19:21.309 out of this the Holy Spirit. You have to do the best you can 262 00:19:21.390 --> 00:19:23.900 to discern. I can't give you an exact formula of when you lay down 263 00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:27.460 the hammer or anything like that. Yeah, let the scripture do its work. 264 00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:32.180 Share them, share with them Psalm fifty one. If they're coming back 265 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:34.619 to you for whatever reason, you have to ask yourself if this young lady 266 00:19:34.859 --> 00:19:38.089 had an abortion and it was no big deal and she's wanting to move on 267 00:19:38.170 --> 00:19:41.369 with her life, why is she even reaching back out to the counsel right 268 00:19:41.609 --> 00:19:45.769 right, why is she even responding? Because you'd think she would just block 269 00:19:45.809 --> 00:19:48.329 her and we some of them did. What have some of them, dude? 270 00:19:48.369 --> 00:19:52.960 Some of them do do that. So to me, I think either 271 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:57.400 divinely inspired or just inspired by our own conviction and look grasping for something, 272 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.480 she reads back out to this this counselor back out of this missionary. But 273 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:06.519 I think in those situations, shoot the scripture over to him. We just 274 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:08.670 please read Psalm fifty one. That's all. I'm asking for you, you 275 00:20:08.750 --> 00:20:11.430 know. Yeah, just let the scripture do it's work. You don't have 276 00:20:11.549 --> 00:20:15.869 to be the bad guy. Let us let the scripture be the good guy 277 00:20:15.990 --> 00:20:21.430 that brings the bad, the the want say the bad truth, but the 278 00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:26.059 the reality of their accountability to God, and let let the Holy Spirit do 279 00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:32.220 his job. Right. I think in counseling counselors that go through that, 280 00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:37.609 it would be good to help them to to be able to state what is 281 00:20:38.329 --> 00:20:41.890 their hope, yeah, of what they are going to achieve with this woman 282 00:20:42.049 --> 00:20:45.890 at this point. Right. And so it's, you know, it's a 283 00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:53.039 Nathan's hope was ultimately restoration, yeah, of David Back to God. But 284 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:57.519 he then he did go on in that story about he did tell him there 285 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:02.000 are consequences. You will not die. Yeah, you will not die, 286 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.589 but the baby will. Yeah, he was very honest about that. And 287 00:21:06.390 --> 00:21:11.069 Yeah, I think what he's saying there is that, basically he's helping David 288 00:21:11.109 --> 00:21:15.349 to understand. I think this is part of what broke David Down, right, 289 00:21:15.829 --> 00:21:21.220 is your sin has an effect on other people. Do you understand that 290 00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:26.059 your sin just affected an innocent person? Now we can get into the theological 291 00:21:26.740 --> 00:21:32.539 discussion about I mean God not into killing babies. So how does that work? 292 00:21:32.740 --> 00:21:36.769 The God caus this baby to die? Or was there some sickness and 293 00:21:37.410 --> 00:21:40.049 the devil do it and God allow listen, I don't want to get into 294 00:21:40.049 --> 00:21:42.650 all of that less maybe for another podcast, yeah, or for another whole 295 00:21:44.289 --> 00:21:48.799 somebody else to do that podcast and episode about that. But the fact is 296 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.480 David was, in some measure at least, a soft hearted guy and David 297 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:56.920 was a guy after justice. I mean, look at the story of David 298 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.240 and Goliath. He comes out on the battlefield there and here's this this goliath 299 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.430 mocking the children of God and mocking God himself, and David's like, because 300 00:22:04.470 --> 00:22:08.750 he's a man that wants justice, who's doing something about this uncircumcised Philistine? 301 00:22:08.829 --> 00:22:11.990 Right, this, this is unjust. He speaking against the Living God. 302 00:22:12.309 --> 00:22:17.259 Is there not a cause? Right? And so Nathan and God Rue. 303 00:22:17.259 --> 00:22:22.140 Nathan plays on that, your sense of justice, and you can play on 304 00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:25.180 that with these mothers and help them to understand that what they've done is an 305 00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:29.180 unjust thing. They just took the life of another human being. Yeah, 306 00:22:29.539 --> 00:22:32.410 they're guilty before God for it. Well, as you were saying that, 307 00:22:32.569 --> 00:22:36.529 and actually it didn't even occur to me, which is kind of crazy till 308 00:22:36.529 --> 00:22:41.410 you said that. But this is exactly a perfect story, because the result 309 00:22:41.690 --> 00:22:48.720 of the sin of David and well, best she but, but best she 310 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:52.839 but was possibly forced into it, but of David, was a baby dies. 311 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:57.829 Yeah, that was the consequence, and that's exactly what happened in an 312 00:22:57.869 --> 00:23:03.549 abortion. The sins of the mother and the father's usually has led to the 313 00:23:03.710 --> 00:23:08.470 death of an innocent human being. Yeah, so it might be a really, 314 00:23:08.789 --> 00:23:15.140 really good story to share with them. Yeah, absolutely, but now 315 00:23:15.259 --> 00:23:18.099 we'll say this that I don't I don't know that you talked about this in 316 00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:22.019 this article necessarily, but I do want to talk just for a second to 317 00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:27.289 the counselor and to them emotionally. Yeah, because what can happen in those 318 00:23:27.329 --> 00:23:32.170 situations, and I'm sure that's what happened with our missionary that you're talking about. 319 00:23:32.170 --> 00:23:33.529 I know it's happened to you. To happen to me, it's happen 320 00:23:33.609 --> 00:23:37.890 everyone who's been involved in these kind of situations where you you a mom has 321 00:23:37.890 --> 00:23:41.559 chosen life, praise God, things are moving forward and she turns back on 322 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.759 it. You Begin to beat yourself up and the devil begins to play tricks 323 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.680 in your mind. All you should have did this, you shouldn't have did 324 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.480 that, you should have said this, you should have said that you're not 325 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.430 good enough to be out there, because if you were, they wouldn't have 326 00:23:56.630 --> 00:24:00.069 went back on their decision for life or you whatever. You didn't use the 327 00:24:00.069 --> 00:24:04.269 right scripture. You did what? Who knows? There's lies come across your 328 00:24:04.589 --> 00:24:08.390 your mind and in your heart, and the whole idea and the whole intention, 329 00:24:08.430 --> 00:24:12.019 I believe, from the devil is to discourage you and to get you 330 00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:15.339 off of mission right, right. So I just want to encourage you, 331 00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:18.900 guys who listen. If you're out there, you're probably going to deal with 332 00:24:18.980 --> 00:24:22.619 this at some point and if you've already dealt with this, would encourage you. 333 00:24:22.339 --> 00:24:27.890 You can never say everything just right, you can never do everything just 334 00:24:29.130 --> 00:24:32.930 right. We live in a fallen world where fallen human beings. So to 335 00:24:33.049 --> 00:24:36.130 try to put a weight on yourself that God doesn't put, because God doesn't 336 00:24:36.130 --> 00:24:38.279 put the weight on you, the burden on you to say everything exactly right 337 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.279 all the time. What does God put on us? He puts on us 338 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.240 so seeds and water seats. That's right. Plant seeds, that's that's the 339 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:49.799 best you can do. You literally cannot plant a seed and force that seed 340 00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:52.190 to come out of the ground right. That's, I believe, why the 341 00:24:52.230 --> 00:24:56.950 analogies there in scripture that we're planting seats, because there's nothing you can do 342 00:24:56.109 --> 00:25:00.390 to make that seed grow. Yep, except for putting water on it. 343 00:25:00.470 --> 00:25:03.309 But you even if you put water on it's no promise it's going to grow. 344 00:25:03.349 --> 00:25:06.869 Right, it's up to that seed and it's up to the Lord. 345 00:25:06.950 --> 00:25:10.380 So we have to leave these situations in the hands of the Lord. We 346 00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:12.740 have to say, okay, I've done my due diligence, I've done the 347 00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:18.019 best I can. Could you have said things better? Sure, you always 348 00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:22.009 can. In our you know, you've been doing this or eight years. 349 00:25:22.009 --> 00:25:26.769 I've been doing this for fifteen years. I still from time to time go 350 00:25:26.970 --> 00:25:30.569 back and even conversations where a mom has chosen life, I'll go back and 351 00:25:30.650 --> 00:25:32.650 think, man, why did I say that? I should have said this, 352 00:25:32.849 --> 00:25:34.960 and and try to beat myself up on what I did and what I 353 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:40.200 didn't do. Don't do that, guys. Don't beat yourself up. Just 354 00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:44.559 trust the Lord ultimately, again your planning seeds, trust the Lord that he'll 355 00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:48.240 give the increase and that the words that you said, even though she didn't 356 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:52.829 choose life on that particular day. Maybe she turned back on her decision for 357 00:25:52.950 --> 00:25:56.509 life on that particular day, but down the road those seeds that you've sewn 358 00:25:56.950 --> 00:26:00.390 and the truth that you've spoken, God's word, doesn't return void, it's 359 00:26:00.470 --> 00:26:04.380 gonna have some kind of effect. It will and and that goes for not 360 00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:08.259 only the initial discussions that you had where she chose life, that you're planning 361 00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:11.660 seat, but the same is true with the discussions you're going to have her 362 00:26:11.900 --> 00:26:17.259 after she has aborted and you're trying to figure out what to say again. 363 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:21.650 It's going to be difficult and you may not say everything perfectly, but just 364 00:26:21.849 --> 00:26:26.450 remember you are planting seats. And I think I may have mentioned this recently 365 00:26:26.569 --> 00:26:30.170 in one of our podcast recently, and it did just happen just to I 366 00:26:30.289 --> 00:26:34.519 think it was last week, maybe the week before, where a mom had 367 00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:41.319 abhorted. She every okay, I'm not sure I've talked about this, but 368 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.680 one of our counselor's, Mary Beth, had poured in to this mom and 369 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:51.950 the mom had even gone to the pregnancy resource center that works with us. 370 00:26:52.029 --> 00:26:55.789 She had seen her baby, she she had gotten all the resources. She 371 00:26:55.950 --> 00:27:02.460 was excited. She had chosen life and then turned around and aborted. And 372 00:27:02.859 --> 00:27:07.380 Mary Beth beat herself up. Yeah, the the sonographer at help, Monroe 373 00:27:07.579 --> 00:27:10.019 beat herself up. They all, they all fell. Oh, what could 374 00:27:10.059 --> 00:27:11.059 we have done when we do wrong? Those, you know, all that 375 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:18.849 stuff, devastated. Yeah, and that mom showed up again just a week 376 00:27:18.890 --> 00:27:23.609 ago, two weeks ago, and looking for us because she remembered. She's 377 00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:27.769 pregnant again, in an unplanned pregnancy. Again, again abortion, vulnerable. 378 00:27:27.809 --> 00:27:33.160 Yeah, but this time she said I'm going to let you help me and 379 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:41.200 she expected anger. Yeah, and and the same sonographer, Kelly, was 380 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:44.430 the one that happened to be there. Yeah, the day that she returned 381 00:27:44.470 --> 00:27:52.029 and Kelly just poured love into her, showed her her baby. I was 382 00:27:52.150 --> 00:27:56.589 the counselor, and she said, thank you so much for forgiving me a 383 00:27:56.670 --> 00:28:03.700 second chance. So she had been convicted from even though she had gone back 384 00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:10.700 and aborted, the relationship that was established in the seats that were planted brought 385 00:28:10.859 --> 00:28:15.890 her back to us with the next pregnancy. Yeah, and and I guess 386 00:28:17.049 --> 00:28:21.250 that's a testimony to do exactly exactly what I'm talking about, exactly. Yeah, 387 00:28:21.289 --> 00:28:26.519 but even given that scenario. She received love. Right, but when 388 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.599 we say that, most people are thinking she received love, that means we 389 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.039 were just nice to her. Okay, now I want to tell you what 390 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:36.839 she received. So, because that is Acun't know what your that's what modern 391 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:40.319 Christians being. So they're when when they say we need to speak the truth 392 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.869 and love. Right. What? What? Most Modern Christians just be nice. 393 00:28:42.910 --> 00:28:47.589 Let's just be nicey right, and listen Jesus in a lot of ways. 394 00:28:47.869 --> 00:28:49.509 I'm sharing this before we started the pod. Guess, yeah, Jesus 395 00:28:49.630 --> 00:28:53.750 was not nice. But we ask ourselves, did Jesus love the Pharisees? 396 00:28:53.789 --> 00:28:59.019 He loved them with a with a deep love. He wept over Jerusalem, 397 00:28:59.059 --> 00:29:03.420 in their obstinates and and he loved them and he spoke the truth to them. 398 00:29:03.700 --> 00:29:06.140 Now, yeah, I'm not saying these women are Pharisees, but what 399 00:29:06.220 --> 00:29:08.660 I am saying is that to show love is not always to be nice, 400 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:14.690 nicey Nice, but it is to show the kindness of the Lord which leads 401 00:29:14.690 --> 00:29:18.809 us to repentance and to bring the truth to bear, like right, reality. 402 00:29:19.009 --> 00:29:22.650 What they've done? So right. So, so, when she when 403 00:29:22.769 --> 00:29:27.119 she came on and I didn't hear about the prior abortion till near the end 404 00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:32.920 of the session. So clearly she was not proud of it, not not 405 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.519 happy about it, knew knew it was sin and when she revealed that, 406 00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:41.750 then I'm up for sharing the Gospel. It's kind of they've done the medical 407 00:29:41.789 --> 00:29:45.670 stuff, I've shared the resources. Made sure she knew that no matter where 408 00:29:45.670 --> 00:29:48.109 she stood with God, it didn't affect whether we would help her. But 409 00:29:48.670 --> 00:29:56.059 shared the Gospel and and she had made a common along the lines of at 410 00:29:56.140 --> 00:29:59.259 that time I had to do what I did. Yeah, with the abortion. 411 00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:07.410 So her heart had not yet been changed really regarding the sin of what 412 00:30:07.569 --> 00:30:10.890 she had done. And that was the first thing that I talked about then 413 00:30:10.930 --> 00:30:15.130 before sharing the Gospel, was the humanity of that baby, all the things 414 00:30:15.210 --> 00:30:19.450 the baby would never know and some pretty hard truths. I spoke it kindly, 415 00:30:21.210 --> 00:30:26.039 with the tone of voice that wasn't angry, but but I wanted her 416 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.400 to I wanted her to come to say it was wrong. You're right, 417 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:34.599 it was sin against against that baby and against God. And she did and 418 00:30:34.829 --> 00:30:37.950 she ultimately, I can't remember. There was a whole slew of women, 419 00:30:38.029 --> 00:30:45.029 fortunately during that time period that came to the Lord and I can't remember if 420 00:30:45.029 --> 00:30:49.339 she was one of them. I think she was, but she she clearly 421 00:30:49.420 --> 00:30:56.460 left with a greater understanding of the sin of abortion. Right, and when 422 00:30:56.539 --> 00:31:00.180 I when I said, no matter what you face in the future, if 423 00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:04.730 you were to have an unplaying pregnancy, first of all you shouldn't because you're 424 00:31:04.730 --> 00:31:07.769 not going to have sex outside of merit anymore. Right. But but if 425 00:31:07.930 --> 00:31:15.089 you were, is is abortion and ever a valid option? And she said 426 00:31:15.130 --> 00:31:18.160 now, yeah, no, and she she was very sorrowful. Yeah, 427 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:25.519 at that point, when we talk about healing and when we talk about restoration 428 00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:32.519 and we we talked about salvation, we haven't understand that ultimately, healing, 429 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:33.869 and we're going to talk about that in just a second, the steps to 430 00:31:33.990 --> 00:31:40.710 healing. Yeah, healing doesn't happen to people that don't realize that they're not 431 00:31:40.869 --> 00:31:44.309 healed. Right, they don't. They need healing. It's like sack. 432 00:31:44.430 --> 00:31:47.619 You Know Ray Comfort, who we use his model of sharing the Gospel, 433 00:31:47.619 --> 00:31:48.980 which is, I believe, the Biblical model of in the Gospel, which 434 00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:53.900 is Jesus, is way of sharing the gospel, sharing the reality of why 435 00:31:53.980 --> 00:31:59.299 he came. Yeah, and you, Ray Comfort talks about if you go 436 00:31:59.339 --> 00:32:02.890 into the doctor's office and you know the doctor doesn't talk about you know you've 437 00:32:02.930 --> 00:32:07.890 got blue spots on your face and you've got horns grown out of your head, 438 00:32:07.170 --> 00:32:10.650 and the doctor talks about everything else but those symptoms that you have outwardly 439 00:32:10.890 --> 00:32:16.079 and doesn't talk about the actual problem, then he's not doing you any good. 440 00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:21.400 Right. The doctor has to talk about the symptoms of sickness. He 441 00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:25.400 has to talk about also the consequences of not dealing with this sickness. So 442 00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:29.519 if you have this sickness with blue spots on your face and horns grind your 443 00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:30.990 head, that's not the example that ray comfort gives, but it's something that 444 00:32:31.309 --> 00:32:37.109 to that effect. Yeah, if you show if you continue in this with 445 00:32:37.309 --> 00:32:40.950 this disease and don't take this cure, people likely to take the cure. 446 00:32:40.990 --> 00:32:45.380 And so that's why we talk about sharing the Gospel, but before that, 447 00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:51.099 sharing the law. Right, that's really sharing the truth that you're sick and 448 00:32:51.299 --> 00:32:53.420 you need a healer. Yeah, and that healer is Jesus. You're sick 449 00:32:53.500 --> 00:32:57.140 and you need a physician. His name is Jesus, and they're not going 450 00:32:57.220 --> 00:33:00.289 to get the idea why they need that. In in your little doctor analogy, 451 00:33:00.369 --> 00:33:02.329 it'd be like the doctor going up to him and not talking about the 452 00:33:02.450 --> 00:33:06.609 disease at all and just saying, let me cut open your stomach to pause, 453 00:33:06.730 --> 00:33:08.970 yeah, to play your intestines and remove a portion of them. You're 454 00:33:09.049 --> 00:33:13.559 like, what know, because you have no idea that there is something on 455 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:15.960 your intestine that is going to kill you, that cancer, whatever, and 456 00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:22.279 so you can't bring the remedy before they know there's an illness. Yeah, 457 00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:27.269 there's some sickness, there's and that sickness is sin. Yeah, and especially 458 00:33:27.309 --> 00:33:30.029 when we're dealing with a woman that's had an abortion. Right, if we 459 00:33:30.190 --> 00:33:36.829 talk about everything else we don't talk about abortion, then we're not talking about 460 00:33:36.869 --> 00:33:39.069 the thing that, ultimately, before God, brings our guilt. Right. 461 00:33:39.190 --> 00:33:43.140 That's why she's come to us and that's why we've connected with her in light 462 00:33:43.259 --> 00:33:46.140 of her pregnancy, because it's what we're out there doing. We're talking about 463 00:33:46.579 --> 00:33:50.180 reaching out to women who are bringing going into the passion center. Right. 464 00:33:51.059 --> 00:33:53.299 So, if we talk about everything else but that abortion, then we're like 465 00:33:53.420 --> 00:33:58.410 a doctor that's talking about everything else but that cancer that he can see very 466 00:33:58.490 --> 00:34:01.130 plainly is going to destroy that person's life. Yeah, and the same is 467 00:34:01.210 --> 00:34:07.250 true of sexual impurity. Is is you can't just dance around that issue when 468 00:34:07.289 --> 00:34:09.760 you're dealing with a women coming for an abortion because, as most of them 469 00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:16.159 are in some sort of sexual sin. Yeah, and if you don't address 470 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:22.079 that, then they'll just be back again. That is a major part of 471 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:27.070 why people are showing up for abortions. They and so that it sets outside 472 00:34:27.070 --> 00:34:30.590 of marriage wasn't a thing, then abortion would not be a thing. Yeah, 473 00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:34.750 I mean pretty much, if you we go statistics, the overwhelming majority 474 00:34:34.789 --> 00:34:38.179 of people that come to abortion centers or committing sexual sin, right. Yeah, 475 00:34:38.300 --> 00:34:43.099 yeah, so let's talk about these steps to healing. Yeah, yeah, 476 00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:46.500 the first step, like we talked about, is the conviction of sin. 477 00:34:46.579 --> 00:34:50.659 Yeah, it's matter of fact. That's what the Bible says the Holy 478 00:34:50.780 --> 00:34:54.170 Spirit, that's what his job is. Jesus says that the spirit comes to 479 00:34:54.250 --> 00:35:00.130 convict the World Concerning Sin, righteousness and judgment. Was the Holy Spirit doing? 480 00:35:00.010 --> 00:35:04.170 For the Christian he's bringing comfort, but for the center, for the 481 00:35:04.250 --> 00:35:08.039 world, he's bringing the conviction of sin to conduct the World Concerning Sin and 482 00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:15.039 righteousness and judgment. So just this idea that we need to to dance around 483 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:16.920 the issue of abortion, to we need to be nice and not talk about 484 00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:21.239 it is a false notion. We need to be plain, we need to 485 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:23.190 be kind. That is a fruit of the spirit. By the way, 486 00:35:23.550 --> 00:35:27.190 niceness is not a fruit of the spirit. It's kind of like a worldly 487 00:35:27.269 --> 00:35:34.030 perversion of of kindness, I think. And kindness sometimes leads to us being 488 00:35:34.070 --> 00:35:39.420 a little forthright and a little outwardly might appears being kind of mean or snarky 489 00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:44.139 or whatever. It's not our motivation. Motivation is kindness. We want to 490 00:35:44.139 --> 00:35:47.940 be kind to them by telling them you got cancer right and in this situation, 491 00:35:49.739 --> 00:35:52.969 your sin, the cancer is abortion. When you do with that, 492 00:35:52.610 --> 00:35:57.690 and we need to really plainly lay it out, why is abortion sin? 493 00:35:58.250 --> 00:36:01.530 It's not sin because it's a it's a bad medical decision, you know. 494 00:36:01.969 --> 00:36:06.760 It's not sin just because the doctors that do it or bad people. That's 495 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:09.280 true, but it's not just sin because of that. It's sin because that 496 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:14.719 baby is made in God's image, loved and known by him, and that 497 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:21.110 baby has been mercially, mercilessly killed by what you did, by your involvement 498 00:36:21.150 --> 00:36:24.190 in the abortion of your son or your daughter, and I think that's important 499 00:36:24.230 --> 00:36:27.909 for them to know, very important, and I love how you stated it. 500 00:36:28.110 --> 00:36:31.150 I hear all the time out there. Please stop. You're making her 501 00:36:31.190 --> 00:36:37.340 feel bad, right, and my response is that's good, because someone's killing 502 00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:42.900 another person, they should feel bad, should feel back. That's all always 503 00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:46.809 my response. She should feel bad. What she's doing is evil, wrong, 504 00:36:46.929 --> 00:36:52.250 sinful, against God, against that child, even against yourself, because 505 00:36:52.250 --> 00:36:55.250 that's not what a woman is designed to do and it will destroy a part 506 00:36:55.250 --> 00:36:59.650 of her to do that. So conviction of sin. Yeah, that's number 507 00:36:59.650 --> 00:37:01.320 one. Right. Yeah, and how do we bring the conviction of sin? 508 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:06.280 Just, very simply, we like we shared Psalm fifty one. That's 509 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:09.679 a good way to start. Shures a great start, scripture laying out the 510 00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:15.599 the humanity, the biblical case of the humanity of that baby. Likely, 511 00:37:15.429 --> 00:37:20.590 if she's already broken in some sense, there's no sense in adding insult to 512 00:37:20.630 --> 00:37:22.630 injury. So if she's already weep and she's already ball and she's already acknowledged 513 00:37:22.750 --> 00:37:27.869 her sin, likely the holy spirits already done that and all you've got to 514 00:37:27.909 --> 00:37:30.500 do is just, you know, a few maybe statements that can kind of 515 00:37:30.539 --> 00:37:35.139 reiterate the holy spirits conviction. If he's done that work again, it's his 516 00:37:35.219 --> 00:37:37.820 job to do that, then we don't need to add more to that. 517 00:37:37.340 --> 00:37:40.699 But we do need to be sure that there's a true conviction of sin and 518 00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:45.969 not just like a worldly sorrow like we talked about. And just you know, 519 00:37:45.690 --> 00:37:50.210 I'm sorry I disappointed you, because that can happen sometimes, where they're 520 00:37:50.250 --> 00:37:52.650 sad because not because they offended God, but because they disappointed you, and 521 00:37:52.690 --> 00:37:55.250 you were really nice to them. You're really kind to them. It was 522 00:37:55.369 --> 00:37:59.079 one here. That A lot. Yeah, that's what their true sorrow is. 523 00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.760 There was a in conviction of sin. There was a man today who 524 00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:07.320 stopped who had an abortion decade ago and he was asking me, you know, 525 00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:10.280 what was going on here, and he he said that he had, 526 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:15.789 you know, been a part of an abortion many years ago and that ultimately 527 00:38:15.469 --> 00:38:21.429 they broke up and then she committed suicide. Oh well, and and he 528 00:38:21.510 --> 00:38:27.219 said not a day goes by that I don't think of it, but I'm 529 00:38:27.260 --> 00:38:30.460 grateful that I never really pushed her to the abortion. We both agreed to 530 00:38:30.539 --> 00:38:37.340 it. Yeah, and I console you'd say, you know, I I 531 00:38:37.579 --> 00:38:42.050 I told him my story and I said I really you've carried this burden for 532 00:38:42.170 --> 00:38:49.210 decades. You will never release this burden until you recognize that abortion, the 533 00:38:49.369 --> 00:38:52.849 abortion, was wrong, it was it was sin. It was sin against 534 00:38:52.889 --> 00:38:58.760 a holy God. But but God does long to heal you. But that's 535 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:00.880 the first step in healing. I just came right out and said that is 536 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:05.920 the first step in healing you. You have to understand what you did was 537 00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:08.679 wrong. And he was very gracious. He actually did listen to the whole 538 00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:10.909 thing. He didn't come to the Lord or anything. I shared the whole 539 00:39:10.909 --> 00:39:16.750 Gospel, but but he did thank me and he took attract a little book 540 00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:22.710 of John which he said he would read. But that so yet. Just 541 00:39:22.909 --> 00:39:28.260 being I think conviction of sin scripture is great, but sometimes just coming right 542 00:39:28.340 --> 00:39:32.500 out and saying it is is important. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and 543 00:39:32.659 --> 00:39:37.340 so I want to kind of knock through these as quick as we can because 544 00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:40.250 we're sort of running out of time recording this. But when we get to 545 00:39:40.329 --> 00:39:45.090 this last part of the podcast. Okay, so the steps of healing, 546 00:39:45.170 --> 00:39:49.849 of conviction of sin, sorrow for sin and be sorry, not just that 547 00:39:49.889 --> 00:39:52.280 they were caught in their sin but they've sent against God. Yeah, repentance. 548 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:57.239 Now, repentance is not just sorrow. Repentance is actually turning away from 549 00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.400 sin. Yeah, turning away happens in the heart, also happens with our 550 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:05.639 hands, our feet. All that right. Yeah, calling out to God 551 00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:07.150 for forgiveness and healing. Now, I want you to touch on that real 552 00:40:07.190 --> 00:40:12.190 quick because we when we share the Gospel, whether it's a mom who's chosen 553 00:40:12.230 --> 00:40:15.710 life for her baby or even a mom who's had an abortion, we do 554 00:40:15.989 --> 00:40:22.139 aim for a some might call it like an invitation sinners prayer. We're not 555 00:40:22.260 --> 00:40:24.940 trying to get them to pray after me, but talk a little bit about 556 00:40:24.980 --> 00:40:30.619 that. Well, in terms of out I think when when David calls out 557 00:40:30.699 --> 00:40:34.699 insign fifty one, he's calling out to God. He has repented and he's 558 00:40:34.739 --> 00:40:38.210 saying God, cleanse me, make me clean again, restore me to a 559 00:40:38.210 --> 00:40:45.170 right relationship with you. And and so calling out to God for forgiveness and 560 00:40:45.409 --> 00:40:52.079 healing means that you have recognize what you've done, you have turned from what 561 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:58.079 you've done and you truly want a bestored relationship with God. You recognize that 562 00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:01.119 it has been disrupted by your sin. And this is the point we make 563 00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:05.550 such a big deal about. Well, you don't mention forgiveness too soon. 564 00:41:05.630 --> 00:41:10.070 Yeah, but there is a point at which forgiveness is to know that they 565 00:41:10.190 --> 00:41:16.550 can be forgiven, but forgiven does come with a price. I mean forgiveness 566 00:41:16.750 --> 00:41:24.059 is is, is not unconditional. Yeah, forgiveness must be preceded by repentance. 567 00:41:24.260 --> 00:41:29.699 And you know the I've I've really thought a lot about a forgiveness and 568 00:41:30.219 --> 00:41:36.050 one of the verses that is quoted all the time to Christians. We years 569 00:41:36.489 --> 00:41:39.769 forgiving people. We need to be a forgiving people, and they say forgive. 570 00:41:40.130 --> 00:41:45.969 Well, Jesus has forgive as the Lord forgave you, as God forgave 571 00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:51.960 you. But God's forgiveness, His forgiveness, is offered to all through the 572 00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:55.519 cross. I mean it's open to all, but it's never, never, 573 00:41:55.599 --> 00:42:01.309 we're never reconciled to God until there is repentance. Yeah, and then the 574 00:42:01.989 --> 00:42:09.230 forgiveness is is extended. Yeah, absolutely. So is that? Am I 575 00:42:09.309 --> 00:42:12.949 getting where you wanted me to go with that? Or is there to yeah, 576 00:42:12.989 --> 00:42:16.739 well, just in also in these conversations, getting them to call in 577 00:42:16.780 --> 00:42:20.980 the name of the Lord and I think getting them if you're in a one 578 00:42:21.099 --> 00:42:25.300 on one conversation. Well, they've acknowledge their sin. Yeah, you're repentant. 579 00:42:25.619 --> 00:42:30.570 Right, they're acknowledging their sin, their sorrow for there, their sorrow 580 00:42:30.650 --> 00:42:35.010 for it, and then they're voicing and I never want to do this again. 581 00:42:35.090 --> 00:42:38.449 That's that's a part of repentance. Now repentance is borne out not just 582 00:42:38.650 --> 00:42:42.769 in the moment but also in how we live. Right, the life of 583 00:42:42.849 --> 00:42:46.679 repentance. You're moving over into the next point about submitting one's life fully to 584 00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:52.679 Jesus. Right, if, if, if you truly want to know the 585 00:42:52.960 --> 00:43:00.510 freedom of forgiveness, that requires submitting your life to the Lord. Yeah, 586 00:43:00.630 --> 00:43:06.789 if you're not calling upon Jesus as Lord, you will never know what it 587 00:43:06.909 --> 00:43:10.429 means to be forgiven, to have that burden of your guilt lifted. But 588 00:43:10.550 --> 00:43:15.900 as soon as you do, your sins, which were scarlet, are made 589 00:43:15.980 --> 00:43:20.260 white as snow. His blood washes away. Yeah, your sin and that 590 00:43:20.539 --> 00:43:25.019 bird and that that overwhelming bird, and that guilt, that self condemnation and 591 00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:30.610 self hatred, that's removed. The consequences are not not all like in David's 592 00:43:30.690 --> 00:43:34.929 case, he was forgiven. Nathan tells him God will forgive you, you 593 00:43:35.130 --> 00:43:37.690 are it's got's not going to kill. You are forgiven, but the baby's 594 00:43:37.730 --> 00:43:44.280 going to die. There is still a consequence and and I think that's important 595 00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:49.920 for people who are experiencing forgiveness to remember that that does not mean that God 596 00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.639 removes the result of your sin right in. Sometimes he does, but quite 597 00:43:54.679 --> 00:44:00.230 frankly, most of the time I don't think he does. Most of the 598 00:44:00.349 --> 00:44:02.349 time you do live with the that's not really the point, right. The 599 00:44:02.389 --> 00:44:07.309 point is that I've offended God, right, I'm repenting to him and whatever 600 00:44:07.469 --> 00:44:10.739 consequences, maybe they that's what they are. Yeah, that, to me 601 00:44:10.860 --> 00:44:15.659 shows a truly repentant heart. Yeah, but kind of what I was getting 602 00:44:15.699 --> 00:44:20.780 at was getting them to right there in front of you, if there's this 603 00:44:21.059 --> 00:44:23.969 genuine repentance, getting them to call the name of the Lord Right there, 604 00:44:24.050 --> 00:44:25.969 rather than to say and do it when you get home. I think that 605 00:44:27.530 --> 00:44:31.690 personal accountability. What your standing right there now, do shy away from repeat 606 00:44:31.730 --> 00:44:35.889 after me. All right, say this after me. I shout away from 607 00:44:35.929 --> 00:44:37.369 that because anyways, well, you know, if that's genuine, yeah, 608 00:44:37.409 --> 00:44:42.159 if you're repeating after somebody calling the name of the Lord. Yeah, you 609 00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:45.840 know, like you've shared before. I'll tell him it can be as sloppy 610 00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:49.360 as you as you wanted to be. Ain't got to be in perfect King 611 00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:53.030 James English or anything like that. Just pray to the Lord, Confess your 612 00:44:53.070 --> 00:44:58.230 sin to him and ask him to save you. Yep, and in your 613 00:44:58.230 --> 00:45:00.949 own words, and oftentimes I have often had them say, oh, I 614 00:45:00.989 --> 00:45:02.829 can't do that, I'll just can I just say it in my head? 615 00:45:02.829 --> 00:45:06.590 And I say, well, read this first. WHAT IS ROMANCE? Ten 616 00:45:06.590 --> 00:45:09.739 Nine, say and and it says proclaim with your mouth. Yeah. So 617 00:45:10.139 --> 00:45:15.900 I think the reason for that God never makes mistakes. I think that's purposeful. 618 00:45:15.940 --> 00:45:17.940 The reason is if you say it out loud, in front of witnesses, 619 00:45:19.099 --> 00:45:21.610 even, but even if you're alone in a room, but you're saying 620 00:45:21.650 --> 00:45:25.650 it out loud to God, there is a that is a commitment. Yeah, 621 00:45:25.690 --> 00:45:30.969 that's and your Oh, your, you are not being worried about your 622 00:45:30.050 --> 00:45:36.639 image or selfconsciousness. You're speaking to God. Yeah, and yeah, I 623 00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:38.320 think that's powerful. Yeah, and I think that kind of leads to the 624 00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:43.000 next thing here. This is steps to healing, submitting to the authority of 625 00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:46.400 a local church. I think within that includes any local church I'm going to 626 00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:51.030 send somebody to, is going to include them getting baptized, right. Yeah, 627 00:45:51.190 --> 00:45:54.429 and that baptism. I don't believe in Baptismal regeneration, that getting baptized 628 00:45:54.469 --> 00:45:58.550 as what saves you. It's repentance and faith in Jesus, calling on the 629 00:45:58.550 --> 00:46:01.550 name of the Lord that saves people. Yeah, but baptism is a public 630 00:46:01.710 --> 00:46:07.980 declaration, like you talked about. You're letting everybody know now I'm submitted to 631 00:46:08.059 --> 00:46:10.820 Jesus. Yeah, and we've seen this. I've actually had a story, 632 00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:14.619 I think we shared on the podcast before. That happened not too long ago 633 00:46:14.699 --> 00:46:17.300 down in southern California, right over in southern California. That was awesome. 634 00:46:17.340 --> 00:46:21.570 Well, that young lady was chose life for a baby, surrender her life 635 00:46:21.570 --> 00:46:24.489 to Jesus. Now, she was not repenting of an abortion, but she 636 00:46:24.610 --> 00:46:28.610 was baptized right, and so that's that's an awesome story. But even these 637 00:46:28.690 --> 00:46:32.159 women who do end up giving theirselves over to the lies of the enemy and 638 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:37.519 have an abortion, when they repent put their lives in Jesus hands, get 639 00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:43.159 baptized. This this public declaration that I'm that's my old life has been buried 640 00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:46.269 with Christ right my new life. I'm raised out of the waters of baptism 641 00:46:46.389 --> 00:46:50.909 to new life, symbolic of their new life with him, and I think 642 00:46:50.909 --> 00:46:54.110 that's included in the authority of the local church. Being in a local church 643 00:46:54.789 --> 00:47:01.300 helps keep that decision for Jesus solidified and helps them stay encouraged and stake accountable. 644 00:47:01.579 --> 00:47:07.340 Right and be really surrounded by other believers who are you know, help 645 00:47:07.460 --> 00:47:09.860 them through their struggles and all that. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's 646 00:47:09.980 --> 00:47:14.780 critical. So that in and also it's in the local church where you're going 647 00:47:14.780 --> 00:47:16.690 to be discipled. Yeah, God, God, will meet you where you 648 00:47:16.730 --> 00:47:19.929 are. Yeah, but he doesn't want us to stay where we are. 649 00:47:19.969 --> 00:47:22.130 I know you've heard that. A lot of people say that and and that's 650 00:47:22.170 --> 00:47:27.130 very true. So you're you know, that's where, that's what God instituted 651 00:47:27.210 --> 00:47:30.599 as the way in which we will be discipled and grows in a family of 652 00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:34.639 believers in the local church. Yeah. So, yeah, that's really important. 653 00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:38.159 And then the final step, I think, in in true healing, 654 00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:45.269 is to now use what has happened to you, the the sin and how 655 00:47:45.389 --> 00:47:49.829 it was redeemed, and use it to help others. Yeah, absolutely, 656 00:47:50.070 --> 00:47:52.670 and that's why there's so many of our concerts who are posted to board if 657 00:47:52.670 --> 00:47:55.550 they really know that that is a really important part of we don't do it 658 00:47:55.670 --> 00:48:00.780 for healing, but that's kind of the bonus. You have absolutely of what 659 00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:04.219 happens if you're out there helping others through. And I told that that man 660 00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:07.619 that stopped today. I said, this is why we're out here because we 661 00:48:07.739 --> 00:48:09.699 know. We know what we've done, we know it's wrong, we know 662 00:48:09.860 --> 00:48:15.250 the horrible consequences and part of that healing process is to go and try to 663 00:48:15.369 --> 00:48:17.969 help others not to do yeah, we did well. It's just, practically 664 00:48:19.010 --> 00:48:22.690 speaking, it's loving your neighbor, right, it's loving your neighbor as yourself 665 00:48:22.730 --> 00:48:27.199 if you've been down a destructive path. Yeah, and you like, for 666 00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.519 example, for myself, being involved in drugs, give myself to that. 667 00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:32.639 If I see someone getting involved in that, I'm going to warn them of 668 00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:37.880 the consequences and say God, deliver me from that and I'll promise you he 669 00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:40.360 don't want you to be involved in that stuff. Right. So it's just 670 00:48:40.869 --> 00:48:45.389 plain just loving our neighbor as ourselves, speaking the truth to people who ultimately 671 00:48:45.949 --> 00:48:51.510 going to be involved in a sinful and destructive things. Yeah. Yeah, 672 00:48:51.590 --> 00:48:55.820 and also, this is one of the reasons why in our applications and things, 673 00:48:55.900 --> 00:48:59.380 when we have people that come on board and get our training, our 674 00:48:59.420 --> 00:49:01.820 sidewalk training, we asked the question of about do they have abortion in their 675 00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:06.699 past? We ask that question, not because we want to probe deeply into 676 00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:09.650 their past or anything like that, but we ask that question. It's kind 677 00:49:09.650 --> 00:49:13.050 of yes or no question. Have you had an abortion in your past, 678 00:49:13.090 --> 00:49:15.329 and then we ask a qualifier. If you say yes, then have you 679 00:49:15.449 --> 00:49:20.010 gotten healing and what does that healing been? Because we want people to Minister 680 00:49:20.130 --> 00:49:23.360 from a place of healing rather than the place of hurting, because you can't 681 00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:27.159 give what you don't have. And so this is just for those of you 682 00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:31.000 who are counselors on the sidewalk where you underlove life or out there under your 683 00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:37.119 church or whatever. If you haven't gotten healing from a past abortion, you 684 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:39.670 should seek that out. You should see restored life as a ministry that we 685 00:49:39.750 --> 00:49:45.949 work with that's under love life's umbrella. Stephanie Ronhart's wonderful. She'll get you 686 00:49:45.030 --> 00:49:49.309 connected and you can. I think it's love life that orgs last restored life. 687 00:49:49.469 --> 00:49:52.590 Either way, you can search, you can google search that, but 688 00:49:52.860 --> 00:49:55.019 that that's kind of a side note that if you have an abortion in your 689 00:49:55.059 --> 00:50:00.019 past, seek out that healing. Just make sure you come to a place 690 00:50:00.019 --> 00:50:02.219 of healing and restoration so you can minister out of that. That's right. 691 00:50:02.300 --> 00:50:09.929 And there's online healing resources if you know that's more convenient, or just all 692 00:50:10.010 --> 00:50:14.329 that you're able to do. But something, something, is important. Getting 693 00:50:14.329 --> 00:50:16.849 some sort of healing is important. Yeah, absolutely. So, just kind 694 00:50:16.849 --> 00:50:21.679 of ending out this episode of the PODCAST, you have here in the article 695 00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:25.000 the flow of the conversation right. So can you kind of just knock through 696 00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:30.800 that as quick as possible? Okay, so a great way to just introduce 697 00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:34.440 it's just saying, how are you doing? Yeah, how are you doing, 698 00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:37.710 and that's when she'll give those comments that you can piggyback off of. 699 00:50:37.150 --> 00:50:39.349 You know, well, I know it was wrong, but you know, 700 00:50:39.469 --> 00:50:44.110 I'm moving on. I will often hear that I'm I know, I need 701 00:50:44.269 --> 00:50:46.590 to just move on. I hear that almost every time. And so, 702 00:50:46.909 --> 00:50:51.860 because I hear that so frequently and it's a great comment, because it's such 703 00:50:51.900 --> 00:50:54.619 a great one, to easily then say, you know, you can't move 704 00:50:54.659 --> 00:51:00.739 on without acknowledging what has truly happened, and that's how you go into the 705 00:51:00.900 --> 00:51:06.329 story of or the the conviction of sin. Yeah, and you know, 706 00:51:06.489 --> 00:51:10.849 similar to what Nathan did with David, maybe mentioning some verses that talk about 707 00:51:10.849 --> 00:51:15.849 the sanctity of life and and why do you call me Lord Lord and not 708 00:51:15.929 --> 00:51:19.719 do what I say? Anything that is going to help her to recognize that 709 00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:28.280 what she did was was wrong, was indeed sin, and then oftentimes there 710 00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:32.550 will start to be some level of remorse and in some women, some women, 711 00:51:32.630 --> 00:51:37.349 great remorse, and then you can start to talk about what true repentance 712 00:51:37.469 --> 00:51:43.590 looks like and tell them that there is forgiveness. Yeah, Great Opportunity then 713 00:51:43.670 --> 00:51:46.420 to share the Gospel, if you haven't already share it again. If you've 714 00:51:46.460 --> 00:51:51.219 shared it once and then they went and aborted, I would say it didn't 715 00:51:51.219 --> 00:51:55.460 take words. I would question. I would go back to the section of 716 00:51:55.699 --> 00:52:00.179 Romans ten nine. Jesus is Lord, and I will ask them was he 717 00:52:00.340 --> 00:52:05.010 lord? Was He Lord when you were in there taking the life of your 718 00:52:05.050 --> 00:52:08.650 own son or daughter? And I will say it bluntly like that, and 719 00:52:09.090 --> 00:52:15.119 oftentimes I'll say no, he wasn't. And so really revisiting what that means. 720 00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:20.320 If Jesus is Lord, what that means, what does your change life 721 00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:24.079 look like then? And then talking about the healing post aboard of programs, 722 00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:30.269 linking her with them if you if possible. I want to reiterate what we 723 00:52:30.389 --> 00:52:34.829 mentioned early on, but it's very important. I have heard many people say 724 00:52:35.070 --> 00:52:39.150 the advice in when you're dealing with a woman who chose life inish lily and 725 00:52:39.269 --> 00:52:44.619 now has turned back to abortion. Is just show her the love of Jesus, 726 00:52:44.980 --> 00:52:49.860 and I say no that I I think that that probably does damage. 727 00:52:50.300 --> 00:52:54.380 In fact, I would say yes, but just what I talked about earlier, 728 00:52:54.619 --> 00:52:59.090 sharing her the love of Jesus is not just be nice to her, 729 00:52:59.530 --> 00:53:04.449 okay, but the love of Jesus is to bring like, okay, okay, 730 00:53:05.130 --> 00:53:08.769 Jesus would be the physician that when you walk in with blue spots on 731 00:53:08.929 --> 00:53:13.840 your face and in a horn gris how your head because you have some kind 732 00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:16.400 of weird disease, he's going to point that out because he loves you. 733 00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:21.079 Right. So showing them the love of Jesus is talking about the thing. 734 00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:23.480 That's it's obvious, right. That's right. Yeah, so a lot of 735 00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:27.230 times she showing the love of Jesus. Again, people are saying just be 736 00:53:27.349 --> 00:53:30.550 nice, talk about everything, but that talk about, you know, think 737 00:53:30.550 --> 00:53:34.670 about his comfort, just comforting. Now I walk into the physicians room and 738 00:53:34.789 --> 00:53:37.349 to the or the doctor walks into the room, you're sitting there on the 739 00:53:37.550 --> 00:53:40.659 on the little bad thing, and he just talks about how much how great 740 00:53:40.699 --> 00:53:44.739 you are, he talks about how much he loves you. And yet meanwhile 741 00:53:44.780 --> 00:53:46.860 you got all this blues, these blue spots on your frience and a horn 742 00:53:46.900 --> 00:53:50.940 grown out of your head, and he doesn't talk about the thing that's going 743 00:53:51.019 --> 00:53:55.530 to cause you great harm. Right, right. So just just comforting with 744 00:53:55.889 --> 00:54:00.530 with Jesus loves you and and yeah, just go ahead and move on that. 745 00:54:00.610 --> 00:54:04.409 That's not what we're calling to do. We Are we are called to 746 00:54:04.449 --> 00:54:12.159 speak, speak truth in in a loving manner. And and so the remember 747 00:54:12.199 --> 00:54:15.840 the goal. Remember the goal. It is for not only to help them 748 00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:20.119 recognize their sin just for the purpose of recognizing sin, but the goal is 749 00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:22.639 that they would be restored and reconciled to God. Yeah, that is the 750 00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:29.989 ultimate goal. And and in you know, do whatever you need to do, 751 00:54:30.429 --> 00:54:37.030 truthfully and lovingly, to bring them to an acknowledgement that they need God 752 00:54:37.429 --> 00:54:42.820 know that they have walked away from him in the act of abortion. Yeah, 753 00:54:43.380 --> 00:54:47.139 absolutely good stuff. Yeah, I think. And it's all put into 754 00:54:47.139 --> 00:54:51.460 an article. Yeah, that will be on the sidewalks for life website. 755 00:54:52.019 --> 00:54:55.050 I have tried to put the links of these articles out as the podcast of 756 00:54:55.170 --> 00:54:58.250 going out, but I'm not always been able to do do that. So 757 00:54:59.050 --> 00:55:01.210 if the link is not in the show notes of the PODCAST, go to 758 00:55:01.289 --> 00:55:07.719 sidewalks for lifecom search, post abortive, whatever words would bring this up. 759 00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:09.840 You can do it in search pretty easily and find out any articles that have 760 00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:14.840 to do with that. And so hopefully you guys will be able to get 761 00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:16.159 a hold of this article, because there's a lot in this article that we 762 00:55:16.239 --> 00:55:21.119 didn't cover because we kind of ran out of time and we think it would 763 00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:22.309 be a blessing to you. So please take advantage of that. Read the 764 00:55:22.389 --> 00:55:25.590 article, share the article, reach out to us, like we say in 765 00:55:25.630 --> 00:55:29.309 the beginning. You know we want you to share this podcast. Want you 766 00:55:29.309 --> 00:55:31.389 to let us know if there are other things you'd like for us to talk 767 00:55:31.469 --> 00:55:35.780 about, subjects you'd like for us to cover. Daniel, Love Life Dot 768 00:55:35.820 --> 00:55:37.900 Org. You reach her, Vicky, at Love Life Dot Org. We 769 00:55:37.019 --> 00:55:40.900 love to hear from you, but until next time, God bless God that 770 00:55:42.019 --> 00:55:53.570 Y'all give me our love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. 771 00:55:57.650 --> 00:56:07.400 I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious in some you