What Does Coronavirus Have to Do With Abortion?

0:00 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Send Me, Lord, I am your what in the world is coronavirus have to do with abortion? Join us in this episode of Gospel Center Pro Life. Is Me and Vicky talk about coronavirus and abortion, the similarities in the biblical implications. Stay too. I felt show passish, touch your heart. Use Me. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. We wanted to have a little bit of a conversation, because everyone is having a conversation. I'll share the coronavirus, covid nineteen, and so we wanted to talk about it and we want to talk about it in light of abortion and in light of the Gospel and you might be wondering, hopefully you are wondering, what in the world does coronavirus have to do with abortion? Where you wondering that? Whenever I ask you, Hey, you cover this topic now? No, I because I was thinking, okay, pro life, life's in there and coronavirus kills, so it's antied life. So okay, it's like abortion. Yeah, it is, but in particular, and we'll touch on a few topics.

1:23 What as far as the Christian response, what should our response be to this thing because, you know, just full to disclosure, I'm probably all over the map about this thing. I'm one of those guys is like, you know, the government's going to tell me I can't go places or I can't do things. The government ain't telling me, squat, I'll do it I want. I'll take that attitude. But also I take the attitude of well, you know, God has put us under submission to the government and we're supposed to do things that, as long as they're not telling us to disobey God, we're supposed to obey the government and that sort of thing. So I'm in this tension of governing and to tell me what to do and, you know, also wisdom. I need to use wisdom and you know, as a prolife person who believes every life is valuable, there's some implications of not using wisdom and how my decisions and my actions can affect other people.

2:12 Yeah, and that ties directly into abortion, which is, you know, one of the points that we're going to touch on. US We're talking through but what I wanted to do, as I don't want, I wanted to not really. I guess maybe we'll come to some conclusions here, but just have a conversation and just talk this through. Maybe you guys who are listening, you can help me. Maybe there's some points as we're going through this that we didn't mention, that we didn't think through, that we didn't talk about that we needed to, and you can help me, help me be more clear on where I should stand on this. Again, I don't really care. I do care in the sense that, you know, the government says things and we're supposed to be in submission to the government, CDC, all of that, but more than anything, I care about what the Bible says. What does the Scripture say? So if you're gonna argue with me about what my attitude should be toward the coronavirus, you're going to have to use scripture. For me, and some other stuff too, scripture is going to be the main and that's that's what we did in our attempt to, you know, to work through this discussion that we're about to have. We looked, we looked at scripture. For me, one of the I think the biggest tension is who to believe, is it? Yeah, we'll read run article where it's very terrifying. There was a family in New York at a family gathering. I think of ten, okay, and seven, three of them died and for them are in I see you right now, right out of seven out of ten. I mean that's pretty terrifying. And then I read articles that that point, you know, print not all the numbers of people affected and and really a relatively low death rate, lower than the flu from what I can see in America right now, and probably the coronavirus

3:46 numbers are under reported. There's probably lots of people who've already had it and recovered or don't even know they have it because they're such a mild case. So that's for me. Yeah, who to believe? Who to believe, and and and I just and a certainly is no help to get on facebook and see everybody's opinion there, because I got, you know, on my facebook feed and we have a lot of the same folks as friends. I'm seeing every every end of the spectrum and everything in between. Yeah, stay out of the general public, never even come out of your house. All, who cares about this virus? You know, on the other the other end of the spectrum, it's just the government, conspiracy whatever. And you see so much. You see so much, also on social media right now, at least in our groups, which are, in my case, largely believers, saying, oh well, perfect love cast out fear. If you love the Lord, you shall have no fear. And and basically your you're faithless if if you're worried at all. Yeah, and and and then you know the the other side that that saying you should be worried. There's a lot of diy all that to all right, there will it paper. You can. You should be worried, worried for your family and for your life.

4:51 And I suspect, you know, the where we should end up is maybe somewhere kind of down the middle. But so it seems like it's like that with a lot of stuff. There's this biblical tension of, you know, not going in one ditch or the other. And hopefully at the end of this podcast will have you guys. Maybe we'll help balance you out. Maybe, who knows, maybe you'll help balance us out, as you responded this podcast and let us know how terrible it was or how great it was. And and so let's jump into it, though, because we're talking about a communical pool disease. Yeah, Cole disease, which means it can be passed along to other people, and so there are some implications here. We're going to talk about bodily autonomy and how your decisions affect other people in a biblical framework for that and a biblical understanding of that. But let's talk about because it's not like the Bible doesn't mention communicable diseases. It does mention these diseases and you know it does. It should help us to see how thorough God is in his word, and we talked in the numbers podcast about how thorough God is and keeping numbers, but how there are is in dealing with stuff like communicable diseases, in particular with leprosy and and some folks say, and I think it's true, if you study out leprosy and what's implied here in the Leviticus passage, what they were dealing with the New Testament, it could include a lot more than just what we properly know as leprosy. It could be other skin diseases, other diseases that are that affect person in similar

6:23 ways. Yeah, but you know, broadly we're talking about leprosy. I think probably I could be wrong about this. Maybe I need to study it more before I say this. Probably the word leprosy is more of a broad term than just a particular communic couple disease that we know is leprosy now, but maybe not. I don't. But does God talk about this disease? Is God talk about diseases and passing diseases in the Bible? Yeah, and and of course, you know, leprosy is what came right to my mind as I was thinking about this. So, and there are a lot of parallels. Lepers in in that time period were socially isolated. That is how the spread of leprosy was contained. They were socially isolated and they were self responsible, but through the rule of the government. You know that that they were too, and God's Word said that. Actually it was in God's word.

7:13 The command was that they were to alert everyone who came near them that would be in danger by shouting unclean, unclean. Yeah, Leviticus thirteen, forty five through forty six. You right, like you always do. Written an outline here, an article basically, and the will post this anywhere. It just helps us as we flow through this. Yeah, but at yeah, leviticas one thousand three hundred and forty five through forty six the Lebrous, person who has the disease shall wear torn clothes and let the hair of his head hang loose, and he shall cover his upper lip and cry out unclean, unclean, he shrimming, unclean. As long as he has the disease, he is unclean. He shall them, he shall live alone, his dwellings shall be outside of the camp. So this is quarantining. Basically, he's separated from the general population and the intention is that he wouldn't share that disease and spread that disease to the rest of Israel. And there was no cure for for lepre seat. There was no vaccine, there was no vaccine, there was no medicine that they could take. They basically would just slowly lose all of their body part seems that sounds like a fun podcast. Yeah, that would be a middle one. That would be a good one.

8:22 About fifty years from yeah, but you know, whenever I read about the lepers it makes me so sad. Yeah, I mean they had a miserable existence, but but God did that to protect his community. Yeah, to protect the rest of the community. So now that's kind of in sharp contrast to what happens in the New Testament. And yes, yes, yeah, you know I've said before I actually preached on this passage that you brought up. Actually, matthew and mark, as long as well as Luke, have this particular story shared where this lepross man comes before Jesus and basically preached about, you know, how in the New Testament or in the Old Testament, the unclean makes the clean unclean. In the New Testament the clean makes the unclean clean. Oh, that's interesting and it's true. You know, in the Old Testament if you touch the lepros person, you were unclean. You are not supposed to touch a list leper person. You were unclean after that point. But in the New Testament, you know, in this story, this is Luke, Chapter Five, or this man comes, a sleppers man comes before Jesus and the Bible says in one passage he bowed down, bow down and worshiped him and said, Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean. So he knew that Jesus was able to the question was he willing? and Jesus stretches out his hand, touches the man and says I'm willing be cleansed and he the leprosy leaves him, he's a good present himself before the priest and give the offering that is required for a person that's been cleansed of leprosy. And mean of you know the story. But

9:56 Jesus makes this unclean man, rather than Jesus becoming unclean, which is the the typical way it would happen in the Old Testament, under the new covenant, Jesus makes this unclean man clean, to his cleanliness anyway. That's a you know that that'll preach and doesn't necessarily have to do with this, but it does have to do with the fact that Jesus was not afraid of the leprosy. You could say, you know, he's he's God. Yeah, of course he is. What the Bible does tell tell us that he laid the that glorious side his divinity, in the sense that you're functioning as God. He laid that aside and took on the form of a servant. Yeah, became a human being. So he he certainly stepped out as a human being in touch this man, yeah, who was lepers as far as not mine in clinging right and as far as we know, though some things says, I'm trying to connect that with coronavirus. He didn't tell the rest of the lepers okay, everybody go, just join the community. Yeah, he didn't change the social isolation. And I think it's interesting, though, went that the lepers says if you are willing, yeah, and then Jesus says, I am willing, and that spoke to me about how so many of the things I'm seen written on social media talk about well, you're safe, you're you're you're a believer and God will protect us and and and all of

11:26 this will. Yeah, I think we're presuming upon God's willingness or lack of willingness to heal or to protect. He may or may not, and I think that there is a call for wisdom. Jesus did not say to those lepers, since I'm in control, you all go on out and I'll take care of my people. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, he certainly didn't overturn complete that social norm, although touching the lepers man, that was that was confronting a social norm. Yeah, and some could argue, and I think a good argument could be made, that Jesus did that not as abroad. You know, I will I'm willing to heal every lepers person, but as a particular sign and a testimony, and certainly was that, and to the Ministry of Jesus. But I believe he shows his willingness to step out and to break with social norms to meet this man's need, and he certainly did right. He looked on this man with compassion. Now does that mean then, you know, bringing it to today, and as far as the coronavirus, the coronavirus with Jesus heal someone from the of the coronavirus?

12:33 Certainly he would. Certainly he can. He may already have. You know, somebody maybe had it and has been healed from it. God still does that, I believe, in this day at age. Does that mean, though, we need to go out as Christians and start, you know, laying hands on everybody that has coronavirus and and and, you know, potentially passing it around everyone? Hey, no, I don't think that it does. I think that we, as you said, we have to use wisdom. We have certain directives and their people smarter than me, smarter maybe even than you, no doubt, who have said they're there are these risks that are involved in passing this thing around, and so do this and do that.

13:15 So I think, you know, there has to be that has to be taken into consideration, not just this idea that if you have enough faith then God it's not going to make you sick. Yeah, and and I think that at that house God's not going to let you get sick. That's right, he I'm sure there's Christians that are dying of this too, but it helps me just to say this and to think about this, that it's not a measure of your standing before God or your faith if you're not going to be shaking all your friend's hands right now. They're saying don't shake hands. But I do get this sense by some people in the Christian community that that shows I'm quivering in fear or that I'm not as good a Christianist.

14:01 Yeah, or maybe even the the idea of having church services. Are Church is not meeting? Yes, as far as you know, as a congregation of the same building, our pastors are doing online service at you know, last Sunday. It was great. You know, just confess when I first heard that they were not going to have services, I'm like what, Canceling Church Service? Yeah, because of this thing. Yeah, and you know, I took the sort of I don't know, I didn't take the you know, you don't have faith approach, but I was just disappointed. I was like, man, we got to press through this. And then I was like, you know, the Lord really spoke to my heart. Hey, you put yourself under submission to your pastor and the leadership there and they're doing the best they can with the information they have and they're trying to apply wisdom and, you know, I felt like, okay, you're right, Lord. I did. And then we watch the church service Sunday morning, right, and it was I was blessed by it. Yes, it was good as a family who watch together in our live room, and it was a blessing and I trust that God is is guiding the leaders of our fellowship and the other churches around, even though I might might not be my perfect will for that to happen. Yeah, I think that, you know, God has other people in that position to make that decision rather than me for a reason. Yeah, I mean there's been some good things from all of this social isolation. I've heard so many stories of families that are gathering together and doing simple things that families should be doing. Yeah, together, there worshiping to go and also I think it's helping people just not be gross.

15:28 You know, that's like one of the one of the benefits. Well, I wash my hand. I'm not a FREAKO. Wash my hands your everything, but you know, I wash my hands on a pretty regular basis, normally because I think it's gross not to write every time I use the bath it. Listen, if if you needed the coronavirus in order to start washing your hands after use the bathroom, you're a gross person. In your part of the problem. But and and that brings up a second point that I was thinking about, is that many times these sorts of things, not that I've ever had a global pandemic before. I never lived through one, which better during the bubonic plague, and I'm not that was a few hit me on but I I, I do think that there is certainly biblical evidence that God uses terrible things like plagues to punish and alarm and wake up people to unrighteousness and wickedness. And I as and that's where I think it does relate very directly to abortion. Is this plague the result of the worldwide growth in the acceptance of abortion? I don't know. Yeah, but I don't.

16:48 I'm not going to be opposed to thinking that that could be the case, because abortion is wicked. God hates the shutting of innocent blood. He hates people killing babies. Yeah, and and there's been so much effort to encourage people to recognize that and to so little avail. Yes, so many people have hardened their hearts and stiff in their necks. Yeah, you know, I'm certainly not going to be the you know, I Guess Doomsday Prophet that says, you know, this is absolutely a judgment from God and and you know, but I will say God does bring judgment and people need to repent, whether or not this is a judgment from God or, you know, it's from the devil, or it's just a virus that can come back from China. Yeah, either way, this is an opportunity, I think, for people, I know, for people, to check themselves. Yeah, yeah, the Bible says if we judge ourselves, will not be judged of God. We need to make an examination of ourselves. Believers, Christians, we guys, we have to make an assessment of our behavior. If you're one of those people, and I get it, we need to take care of our families. I have a family are we have ten in our family.

18:00 But if you're one of those people, as soon as you heard about this coronavirus, you went to the store and you bought eighty seven packs of toilet paper. I think you probably did that out of fear and I think it's probably should be evidence to you, evident to you, that you're a selfish person, because now I don't have toilet paper in my house. We do actually, but you know what I'm saying. It's like this selfishness that flows. I'll got to take care of of myself. I've got to take care of me in my own whenever. Really, as believers, were supposed to consider those around us. Maybe you bought eighty seven packs of toilet paper so you can give your neighbor some toilet paper and praise God. Hope, hopefully, you did that. But even as a world you know you're we're talking about judgment. We're talking about the way that God brings judgments and we do know in the Bible, old Tesiman and New Testament, that God will bring pestilence. I think this would qualify as pestilence. Pestilence is like insects and some kind of invasion of some foreign or a Dissolu disinvited creature, and I think a virus would wouldn't qualify as that. This is pestilence and whether it's again, it's been unleashed by the Lord as a judgment. Either way, we let's not waste it. Yeah, right, let's let's check ourselves as believers, as a nation, let's check ourselves. Are we right with God? And I would say, you know, of course we're not.

19:18 As a nation, we need to turn back to the Lord and I've been man. As a family, we've been praying. God. Use this exactly because, if nothing else, people, you know, will wash their hands when they're supposed to not be gross, but people will check their own mortality. They don't. You listen, you, you're not going to live forever. You're not going to be on this earth forever. Whether you coronavirus gets you. You know, Ray Comfort. We love him. Right. He says the ultimate statistic ten out of ten people die. Were all going to be part of that ultimate statistic. You're going to die. If you don't die from something, death is going to get you right, right, and so you're going to die from something. And we're going to face the Lord. So as believers, we're going to face God. We're going to have to give an account for our lives and how we've lived. Yeah, so, if nothing else, allow this is an opportunity for reflection and be a witness in a testimony. It probably not the best thing for you to be tapping on facebook about how much God hates America and that's why he's judging.

20:11 Probably probably not the best testimony, but but the testimony of worn in people of whether or not this is a judgment. There is judgment to come and inviting people to come to the Lord and to check themselves. Yeah, as a believer and being a testimony to your neighbors and helping out and that sort of thing can be an opportunity to share the gospel with people. Yeah, and to be an intercessor in the midst of the plague is very biblical. Absolutely. So, you know, I'm going to save my voice because I've got some some rough vocal courts, but if it's not coronavirus now the wagon around, it's it's and if you hear my voice cracking a promise it's not corona either. We both there. It's like the pollen. Pollen is thick.

20:52 I mean that's like a double whammy form now right, yeah, you know, but this one is numbers sixteen and it's how number sixteen verses forty four, two, hundred and fifty and an old testament dealing with the plague and and really pay attention to prayer and intercession for the people in the midst of this plague. Okay, so I'll read it here. And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying get away from the midst of this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell on their faces and Moses said to Aaron, Take Your Censer and put fire on it, from from off the altar, and lay incense on it and carry it quickly to the congregation and make a toment for them, for wrath has gone out from the Lord. The plague has begun. So Aaron took it, as Moses had said, and ran into the midst of the assembly and behold, the plague had already begun among the people. And he put out the incense and made a Toment for the people and he stood between the dead and the living and the plague was stopped. Now those who died in the plague. Were fourteen thousand seven hundred besides of those who died in the affair of Cora, and Aaron returned to Moses at the entrance of the Tene meeting when the plague was stopped. So here's intercession, here's Aaron intervening, you know, God speaking to Moses and Moses speaking to Aaron and the there's intercession, there's interestanding between the living and the dead and and putting out in atonement for the people.

22:10 And Yeah, and back in those days it was Jesus had not yet come in as and died on the cross, and now the atonement is to point people to Jesus. Yeah, and to sacrifice on their behalf. So prayer, intercession, pointing others to God and Atonement, I think, are all really important things for us all to be actively doing. Yeah, during this during this plague. Yeah, yeah, and that that again, you got to balance that out. It's it's, you know, probably not the best testimony to be putting on facebook or whatever, be standing in the grocery store and yelling at everybody this is a judgment of God. You need to repent right. That never goes well. It typically does not go well, but taken, I don't say capitalizing on the moment because I don't want to make light of it, but it's sort of like that. We're taking this moment where people are reflecting on their own mortality. Yeah, and there's fear and people are under a spirit of fear, to bring the truth of the Gospel and to point them to the one who, the Bible does say perfect love casts out fear. You don't have to be under a spirit of fear.

23:18 Now, fear and caution are two different things. Being under you know, just kind of hiding under a rock somewhere and and not wanting to be out in public because you're afraid of this virus can be one thing. Using wisdom, little bit of stuff we've talked about already is a whole other thing. But as a believer in Jesus, you have a platform here. You've got your family and you got your friends and you got those around you that you can share the gospel with. Take that opportunity. Don't waste this. Yeah, well, the Bible says make the most of every opportun absolutely, so we should do that. Now. You know, one of the things with abortion rights is bodily autonomy. Yeah, that's my my body, my choice, right. Yeah, but suddenly that's kind of not what they're saying.

24:00 With coronavirus, your body, get, get and into quarantine and don't let your body come anywhere near my body. Not your body, your choice, because it affects me. Ye, which is the opposite message. The little says, yeah, it is, it is. So you had found an interesting article, yeah, which I think you printed that off, and I think it is an article about. You know, we did a podcast, think in our first couple of podcast we told about bodily autonomy. Yeah, and is this the biblical concept, the idea of bodily autonomy, and I think we established the bodily autonomy is, I mean in one sense, yeah, you're responsible for your body, but the decisions that you make with your body do affect other people. And when your decisions affect other people, that's when, you know, one person said, my bodily autonomy stops at the end of my fist. My fist connect with your nose. Have violated bodily of time. I can't do what I want to with my body.

24:56 Yeah, and ultimately are our bodies are not our own. Our bodies belong to the Lord exactly everything be yes, yeah, and we know everything belongs to God. The body is for the Lord and the Lord is for the body. As believers in particular, our bodies are temple of the Holy Spirit, timples of the Holy Spirit. So you can't do whatever you want to with your body. Right. And it's funny, though, as I'm looking out on facebook, social media, in the media in general, and a lot of folks who would tell bodily autonomy as the end all of everything. You have bodily autonomy, you can do it, you won't. You can't tell me what to do with my body, or some of the same folks that would support the idea of like forced quarantine. Right, right, so you can do what you want to do with your own body or you can't.

25:37 Which one is it? Yeah, just today I was I was with I guess I was closer than six feet Tokay, at one of the pro choice people, okay, and he said you need to move back. I probably was five feet away from him, and I did. I did. I got it. But you know, it's funny because he is also there standing in support of the full bodily autonomy of any mother who wants to kill their child. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean I talked to the same guy today and he he believes that children in the womb are alive. He says he's a Christian. He's not a Christian. Yeah, says he's the Christian. He's believes that unborn children have value, but their value is basically the woman's choice. Trump's the value of that, that life, which is like completely upside down with this. But this is an article. This is a CNN article actually, and the title is a corona patient refused to quarantine. Their deputies are surrounding his house to force him to. Wow.

26:30 And where is this? This is in Kentucky. Okay, so it says a Kentucky Novel Corona Virus Patient Checked himself out of the hospital against medical advice. So to prevent him from spreading the virus, officials are surrounding his house to keep him there. So this is a guy, fifty three year old man, who has test depositive for this thing. So he's got it. Yeah, and he has the potential of affecting other people. I mean possibly he could affect thousands of people, just one person. He's yeah, you look at these graphs and how one person can affect a bunch of people. He can just spreads, spreads and spreads. So this man is being forced to be quarantine, it says, read known Nelson County, from Nelson County, which is in Kentucky, officials said forced isolate or imposed forced isolation on the man who was confirmed to have the he was one of the first of twenty confirmed cases in Kentucky. And you know, it just was interesting to me because I'm thinking, if I'm this dude, I mean, if I'm this dude and I found that I've got this coronavirus, I'm going to self quarantine myself, sure, but I also can identify with him in one sense.

27:38 It is like the government's not going to tell me what to do. You know, he's probably got this thing and he's probably not that sick. If he checked himselt out of the hospital, he's probably not doing so bad himself. Right, if he's able to check himself out of the hospital, he's probably not doing so bad. so He's thinking to McDonald's. He wants to go to McDonald's, he wants to hang out with his family, he wants to whatever, you know, he wants to do. And who gets to tell him he can't. Yeah, well, apparently these officials can the so what does this have to do with bodily autonomy? It has everything to do with bodily autonomy. Yeah, this virus is in his body, right, it's something that's inside of his body. Can't he do with his body what he wants to, even if it will affect other people? I mean, that's the pro choice argument. A lot of pro choice people will say, yes, I agree, the baby is a living thing. I mean, listen, if we're looking at viruses, and it's little off track, but a virus, is that a living thing? Okay, I mean some people say no, some people say yeah, at least it's the potential.

28:37 Right, most people. You'd have to be a little bit sick. We're not sick. You just stupid to believe that an unborn child in the womb is not a living thing. It is a living thing. And of course the argument is from their standpoint, pro choice people standpoint, is it. Yes, it's a living thing, but it's not a person. It does have personhood and of course viruses don't have personhood, and that's true. We we believe that it is a person right. We believe that there's a person there inside the womb and that your decision to what you want to do, quote, with your body, is going to affect that person to the point where that person is going to die. In this case, you know, this man may infect other people and other people may die. That's a possibility in an abortion, at least from our standpoint, it definitely will affected of the person that that other person definitely will die if a woman exercises her bodily autonomy to to have an abortion. Yeah, yeah, so you would.

29:37 It's a there's a should be a greater punishment. Yeah, whide. There is a definite death versus a P sibbule. Yeah, yeah, in the other yeah, no doubt about it. And so it just seems to me a little hypocritical, yeah, for people who would claim to be pro choice and all, for like bodily autonomy is the end all of everything, to be okay with this. Yeah, a minute. I mean, yeah, he's his decision is going to affect other people, right, some my body, not my choice in him, not in this situation. But I think most people will agree that this is an appropriate restriction, and this is kind of the point. This is an appropriate restriction imposed by the government on a person who doesn't want to do the right thing. People talk about in the abortion conversations that you and I've had is a government forcing the morality of some people on other people. Right, the can't have an abortion. And you know there's restrictions and stuff that people have imposed and they're saying that's religious legislators imposing their morality on women. This is legislators, this is government officials imposing their morality on this man. Exactly. They're saying his quality of life is not as important as all the people that he might ultimately harm. Yeah, yeah, and it seems again, it seems to be a contradiction. If you're okay with this, then if there's restrictions of the government places on abortion, why wouldn't you be okay with that? And it's because, you know

31:08 pro choice person is going to say right away, it's because the unborn child is not a person, people that might be infected by this gay our people. Yeah, yeah, you know, think is which we have demolished that argument and other think we can think we have and I'll look at that. Yeah, so here's another point about one of the commonalities, okay, between abortion and coronavirus. Does the Bible say anything about protecting the vulnerable, because, for example, the elderly, yeah, or those with the underlying issues are very vulnerable right now, apparently, absolutely, during this coronavirus. Does the Bible say anything about how we are to treat those who are elderly?

31:52 And, of course we know it does. Yeah, talk about that. In the elderly are are very effective, very effected, a very effected sorry, correct. So let's talk about like one of those verses that tells us how we are to treat the vulnerable. Yeah, and well, and others. Let's talk about the dynamic of which is why we do what we do, exactly, speaking for these unborn children, and it's the dynamic of taking up your cross, laying down your life for the sake of other people. Right, I don't go out to the sidewalk in front of an abortion clinic, regardless of what pro choice people might say, to stroke my ego. Ego, if I want to stroke my ego and feel better about myself, there's a lot of other places I could go, my fun places. Yes, exactly. I go out there because I see that there's a group of people are dying and I am, by God's grace, willing to lay my life down for them. That's why I go out. I'm willing to lay my life down. And you know, you people who are on social media and you're complaining about having to be quarantine, you're complaining about whatever you're complaining about. You know, we're called to lay our lives down for other people and it is a suffering to have to stay home. Maybe you're in the category of people who won't really be affected. If you did get this thing, it would just be like a bad cold, or not even that.

33:10 Some people are saying it's like totally just a mild old people have it, don't even know it right. Maybe you're one of those people. Yeah, but understand it's not about you. Yeah, one of the the major concerns here, which kind of shifted my thinking about this thing, is that you could pass along to somebody who can easily be affected by this saying and it'll put them out, possibly kill them. Yeah, who made that may be hidden that, whatever their disability or whatever that they're facing could be completely hidden from you, and you'll make pass them in the grocery store and think, no big deal, but you're very passing touching things that they're going to touch could put their lives in jeopardy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And again, they're not those you might just get a cold. They're not just going to get a cold. It's going to affect them to the point where some people have died. I mean that is the major concern, is the the weak and the vulnerable, the elderly mainly, who's with underlying conditions, what they said. So we've got to be considerate of that, that sort of thing. We are called to lay our lives down. I lay my life down by going out to the portion clinic that sometimes maybe I need to lay my life down by, you know, not having a church service on Sunday, right, and setting that aside for season. And I know someone's thinking, because I thought it. Well, but you're out on the sidewalk, yeah, and you're you're not socially isolating yourself. Yeah, but I did, and I think that is a valid thing to mention. But but we are being careful. We are, we are, we we are not hugging each other, we are not shaking hands and we are trying to shakes.

34:43 Now it's been the hand. Oh, yeah, right, has nasty. Anyway, you know, we're trying to spread out. We do that anyway because it's more effective and we're trying to abide by the SOCIALIA. I mean, we very rarely, on a weekday especially, have more than, you know what, five or six people on the sidewalk anyway, right, so the over ten people rule is something we just not hard for us to abide by. As far as that goes exactly, we're being very careful to have the RV cleaned with the antibacterial whist all sprays and things like that. We're moms are going to be coming on and the protocol is now going to be between MOMS on that RV that everything is scraped down. Yeah, with the anti well, you know, you know today we gave out I think it was maybe six pieces of literature to those going into the abortion that you handed it out. We weren't using gloves, we were using our hands, right.

35:37 So that can introduce the factor of risk. Yeah, and so there is a risk, by the way, thyough, because I did read that on on cardboard and paper items, there is the potential that the virus could be passed, but it's a very small right. Yeah, but there's there's a realtors, of introducing risk factor there, and we understand that. Now we're being intentional in about cleaning our hands and not sexing you wiping my nose with my hand and put in all these literature that's grousing anyway. Yeah, but one of the dynamics, as you're thinking about that, is what I said earlier. Yeah, people could potentially be effect I means that potential there for one of US cities for life counselor to pass this thing along. It's a potential for anybody that's that's a potential for anybody in, you know, in society. But we know so that could happen, certainly. But one of the things that we do know that is happening is that abortion clinic is open, babies are dying and if we're not there, those children are not going to have a voice. That's right. No one is going to be there to speak on their behalf. And we do know that our presence out there on that sidewalk is effective at saving lies. So we know two things.

36:50 We know that babies are dying and our presence out there makes a difference. So we have to you know again, we're not trying to put other people at risk, but we're taking a risk to be out there on the sidewalk because those babies deserve our voice. Yeah, and we know that more babies are going to die, probably did die today in our city of shires and our city, just in our city alone. Then all of the deaths in the United States. That's yeah, I'm not sure that with the with the tally, I don't know what already was. A hundred right, and you know, we see, we can say surely in a week's time we see a hundred and fifty. The two hundred babies die, everything Le Rope in our city, trout. Yes, so mainly at latrobe. Yeah, and so, you know, not making light at all of those people that have been affected and who've died from the coronavirus. Not Making light at all.

37:39 But we definitely know the their babies dying and that we should intervene. And these babies are in God's view and thereby an our view. Just as valuable is people who were potentially affected by about rights. They're human beings made in his M yeah, now we're not ignoring the fact that there is an authority of government and we as as Christians, need to obey yeah, a government, and we did talk about this in another podcast, the Rom we did thirteen. Yeah, we talked to authority of God, about of government, civil disobedience, right, and where. That what our mentality is on that what it should be, right, right, but this does tie into that. You know, somebody asked me today whatever volunteers said. Okay, so I'm hearing about and please don't go with this as a conspiracy theory.

38:27 Guess. Okay, but this volunteer has heard through the grape vine, and whether it's true or not, heremates are flying, they're flying all around, that the government is going to place the entire United States on lockdown. So it'll be just mandatory stay in your home. Yeah, what do they call a shelter at? Shelter in place. Yeah, so they're going to put that. So what's what's our position going to be? Are we going to be willing to come out even if the abortion clinic is opening? In my mind, if they're going to do that shelter in place thing and they allow these abortion clinics to stay open? Right, that's ridiculous. Right. I mean, they're already talking about doctor's office. Should limit limit these elected procedures which abortion is elected in elected procedure. Certainly, not just because you know it's dangerous and spread the virus, but also to keep the medical supplies and stuff from being used in ways, yeah, that you know they could be used to help these coronavirus passions. Right. So, but you know, and so he asked me that question, if they're still open and there's a shelter in place order, yeah, and you can only come out for essential things. What is your view of this going to be? And immediately I'm like, well, what we're doing is essential. It's essential to these babies, and that's going to be my argument. I am going to come out and I'm going to stand on that sidewalk now, if I have to be, you know, I'm not going to. If they come and threatened to put me in jail if I leave, I'm not going to go to jail.

39:50 Well, hopefully Gott'll give me wisdom. It will cross that bridge, across that bridge and we get there. But you know, that is a question that we need to ask ourselves. And what is wisdom in that situation? And how do we apply the principle of laying our lives down for our neighbors, because it's sort of a there's a tension there, yeah, right, that we need to you know, sort of a bit of biblical tension that we need to consider, we need to pray through and we need to and you apply wisdom. Yeah, and it does. It is directly. Okay, are we obeying God? Or if if the government comes and tells us to do something that goes against what we know in our heart God is telling us clearly, yeah, and his word and in our spirit to do, then we need to hopeake on. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So that's not to me. That's not a cut and dry thing try to figure out, but I think in those situations you have to do the best that we can. Yeah, you know, the government has has said as a recommendation, not as a mandate. They have mandated in the state North Carolina that no gatherings of a hundred people are more. That's not a problem for us, but they have from the CDC and from, you know, the federal government, recommended that no more than ten people should be together in the same place. But we know in the abortion center there's more than ten people.

41:08 Oh Yeah, today they were just the workers. Yeah, I mean just the workers. Yeah, probably Sol is is close to ten? If not? Yeah, yeah, certainly. But you know, I have a family of ten, as I mentioned earlier. Yeah, I can't even have a guess they but you can have another baby. Blue Families have twelve kids, you know, and it's like well, I gotta send some outside. Of course not, right. Right. So there's something you can't abide by and it's not a law, it's just a recommendation, right, but if it becomes a law, that's just something that you can abide by in some way. If, especially for those big families, I can't obey this. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's a it's a it's a little bit over the top, I think so. In a lot of this over the top is is a result of fear. There's so much over the top that's a result of fear, and I thought it was a very interesting comparison, excuse me, between coronavirus and abortion, in that I would say a huge driver of abortion is fear. Oh Yeah, yes, we were an article about that. In the sidewalks of life, you know, the spirit of fear, a spear understanding that women come to an abortion clinic under a spirit of fear life, right, they fastically they face overwhelming obstacles. In their mind they're terrified, they don't feel like they can face the future with this baby, and so they do this unthinkable act. A mother killing her own child and coronavirus. The panic is clearly fueled by fear. Yeah, there is. I I would give them that. There are some facts that certainly, I think, justify what they're trying to do and some, yeah,

42:39 maybe, maybe not at all, but but in most areas. But but so fear. So how do we combat? I think that's an important thing to maybe, as we're getting close to the end of this, talk about how do we combat as believers, how do we combat fear? Yeah, because fears the driver. Yeah, for many people not say that, you know. That's why people. My wife was in the grocery store on Monday getting groceries and graciously the Lord provided yeah, the grocers. That were a paper. We already had something, so we were good on that. But there was a lady walking down the aisles and I'm like that lady. They she all locked her up because he's walking down the aisles and saying everybody get everything unique because the government's about to shut everything down, and she's just she's fear mongering right. She she's spreading that, and then I can that's prettier panic and she's obviously under her fear. And you know, I can get it. You know there's some unknowns. Every time there's unknowns in our lives, there's a potential for fear. Yeah, right, I mean we can get overwhelmed by fear. Yeah, the Scripture tells us that God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind. So that spirit of fear, it doesn't come from the Lord.

43:49 There's so many. One preacher said, several preachers were said it, that the command given more time than any other command in the Bible is fear not. It's not a suggestion, it's fear not. It's an encouragement from the Lord to not be afraid. And they're one of the things that I've scripture. I've been meditating them even before this thing, but just based on some of the things we've been dealing with as a family, some of the battles we've been in, and I know a lot of people in a bunch of different battles. Is Psalm Ninety one those who abide. He abides in the secret place of the most high. Will will he who dwells already in the secret path of the most high well abide into the shadow of the Almighty? And so God has just been comforting me with Psalm Ninety one. And if you guys hadn't read that Salm in a while, get into that, meditate on that Psalm. It even talks about pestlings. You'll not be overtaken by pestlings, and it just can help us get in a place of off faith rather than fear, because that is the opposite, I think. Well, maybe not exact opposite, but walking in fear and walking in faith are too very opposite things, very different things. Yeah, walking in faith, you know, you've got the overthetop you know, if you truly believe in God, if you truly believe God's sovereign, then you you'll go to church and you'll whatever. You know, you'll you'll wipe your nose on, touch those people that are on the respirator and yeah, yeah, exactly know. Yet that over the top kind of mentality and that's not really faith. Faith is first faith is looking at God's word. That's what we're hopefully helping you guys to do. Look in God's words, see the principles of God's word.

45:17 So faith it's first and foremost doing what God's word says. Stepping out in faith is stepping out in the troops of God's word. But faith also doesn't look stupid, right. Just don't be stupid. How about that? Maybe that's the word of wisdom from you guys. Listen, don't be stupid. It's not faith to just do whatever you want, whenever you want. We have to consider other people. But also we can't be under fear, you know, staying behind closed doors just because you're afraid of going out that you might get some virus. That's that might affect you. You can't live in the world of might, might, this, might this. You know, are that we should have this level of trust in the Lord his goodness, in his provision and apply wisdom. Yeah, I'm I'm working my way through numbers and I just loved this from numbers thirteen. Okay, we're Caleb and the others have spied out the promised land, and remember the most of the spies come back quivering. Oh yeah, there is no way we can fear there. And then they are under spirit of fear. Those are giants.

46:19 Yeah, and all they could see where those giants and that they could never defeat the giants. But Caleb, this is the verse in numbers thirteen, starting in verse thirty. But Caleb quieted the people before Moses and said, let us go up at once and occupy it, for we are well able to overcome it. And then the verse goes on and just talks about the fear of the spies and they ultimately defy caleb and defy God and and are punished. Yeah, but but later on were told that Caleb was a man who followed God. Yeah, and and trusted in God and didn't let that fear overwhelm following what God would have him do. Yeah, yeah, and you know, Caleb had to look crazy to the people around him, and the majority of the people were actually against what Caleb was was telling them.

47:14 So what made Caleb different than the rest of the people? What what did his confidence in, his lack of fear? He wasn't you. He doesn't point out, Hey, we're well able to overcome this thing, because look at all the armies we got and look at all the other people we've defeated based on our own our own strength. Well, listen to this. I can answer from scripture, which is the best because I write. Okay, this is it's perfect. Okay, numbers fourteen, twenty four. Answers your question. All right, all right. What was different about Caleb? Yeah, would did he understand? where? What was his perspective here? It wasn't the others perspective, but my servant Caleb, this is God's. Yeah, but my servant Caleb, because he has a different spirit and has followed me fully. I will bring into the land in which he went and his descendants shall possess it. So here's the key, a different spirit that fully follows God. Yeah, that is not saying, in terms of coronavirus, that we're supposed to just run out there and say I'm going to go touch everyone. Yeah, I have covered with God's grace and mercy and he will protect me, but it is to say, be very aware of what God is saying and follow him fully. Yeah, yeah, you. Caleb knew God. Yeah, Caleb Knew God was on his side. So Caleb didn't walk in fear, he walked in faith. He knew God and he knew what God was able to do as far as conquering the land here and these

48:46 other people who were not like Cable Caleb, who had a different spirit right, had a spirit of fear. They were afraid of the future. And I get it, guys and and no one's saying, please, don't take you to this way that if you're if you're applying wisdom and you're staying at home and you've got sick or maybe sick loved ones, or you've got people well that if they can get sick from this thing, that they would get staying at home, that's that's while stem. Yeah, absolutely so, no one saying you're faithless, but we can't be coward down in a spirit of fear and just be under this thing thinking that, you know, if it flows out of selfishness. Yeah, and only you can tell that. If it flows out of selfishness, you're operating under a spirit of fear. If it flows out of selflessness, then you're operating in faith. I would say that would be that would be a good principle to go by. Think he's crazy, just self preservation, or are you considered of other people? Yeah, and and that'll help. I think people gage, Hey, am understring fear, and if you are, you know what shirk that thing off.

49:46 Yeah, get in the word of God. See what God's Word said, follow him wholeheartedly. Like him, lordly. Yeah, and again, we're not saying you're faithless if you're staying at home. That's not the point of this podcast. We're talked not to tempt the Lord, and I think that is tempting the Lord when you're walking into a danger that is is clearly going to harm other put putting yourself an unnecessary danger right, and putting others in a necessary danger right, is you know, it's that's not faith right, that's you know, that's the devil telling Jesus, Hey, if you're the son of God, throw yourself off exactly, because God will sect you exactly. And he's actually, I believe, the devil is quote in Psalm Ninety one. Yeah, and that passes. Matter of fact, I'm fairly confident. Yeah, is. And this is the this is a psalm of protection, in God's right, protecting those who stay in abide in him right.

50:32 And so the devil will prefer scripture and UN knowing human beings will pervert scripture to and make it apply in a way that it shouldn't. So you don't tempt God all right, but walk in faith. Yeah, so, I mean I think that's is that is that? Yeah, wrapping US o? Yeah, yeah, so I hope you guys are blessed by this. I hope that you know we've given you some solid stuff. As I started, you know, I said we're going to have a conversation, probably not going to give you a whole lot more than you already have. I think that we have that. You think we've touched on some stuff. I've been encouraged to this and just thought through some things a little more than that I had before. We Are we want to encourage you guys. You be willing to reach out, be willing to reach out to neighbors. If there are people in our church is doing a thing where if you're able bodied and you can deliver meals to people, or if you can do things like go get groceries for people, obviously using proper sanitary methods and all of that, then are you willing to do that, as our church is doing that, orchestrateing some people to go out and help others, you know, in a wise way?

51:37 If you can do that, if you can help your neighbors, if maybe if you got eighty seven rolls or eighty seven packs of tilet aaports them out and come to my house, because we don't have that money. Maybe you can step out in that way and right and certainly you can be a witness wherever you are for the Lord. Yeah, be praying. Also, be praying for our nation, like I said, and we as a family we're praying every night. We're praying for this country, praying for the leaders. The Bible tells us. Pray for our leaders, who guess. Pray for your leaders. Pray for repentance. Pray whether that this is a judgment from God. If it is, then be praying that the nation will turn back to the Lord. If it ain't, be praying that the nation will turn back to the Lord. It's at least an opportunity for that. So reach out to us if there's things that we touched on in this podcast that you like for us to expound all. Maybe we can take some opportunity to that. Maybe we messed up and we said something that that offended you.

52:25 Wouldn't be the first time. Reach out. Let us know. We'd like to talk with you and verse with you about it. You can reach out to me, D parks, at cities for lifecom, Vicky is Vikasse orget cities for lifecom. We'd love to hear from you, guys. Share this podcast if you think it'll be a blessing to other people. Lead a leave us a review in apple podcast or the other podcast platforms that you use. And until next time, God bless me for love. Give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious.

53:13 And some you