Was Pastor Matt Chandler Right?

0:00 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me. Lord, some folks have implied that if we tell a woman not to have an abortion, then we need to be willing and able to meet the needs that brought her to the abortion clinic in the first place. But as that concept Biblical and how should we view that subject? Join us as we talked this through. I felt show passish touch your welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. We appreciate you guys listening and we're going to talk today about Matt Chandler, but not really. So we're not. This podcast is not throwing him under the bus. It's just a particular mean that's been out there in the social media around and that some folks have been talking about, and so we wanted to talk about it, not just about him, and I'm sure you know he's a great guy. I don't listen to Matt Chandler A lot. I've missed listen to him some. He has some good messages about abortion in particular, and and I believe their church is really involved in trying to rescue the unborn and doing things for the Lord in that realm.

1:11 But this is really just I think a misconception that a lot of people have. Right and I don't know it's sometimes it looks to me, when people say things like this, that their concern is less with what the Bible says and more with what culture might say or might think. MM and so, if you don't mind, you've written an article here. Right, he, like you do often times. Yeah, and I appreciate would you read that quote? That? Yeah, yeah, so he there was this meme on facebook. It said, as the church, we must not say of abortion, this is murder without saying to pregnant women we will serve you. If we're doing the former without the ladder, we don't truly understand the Gospel.

2:00 Okay. So if we're doing the the former, we're saying abortion is murder without doing the ladder, which is basically saying hey, will serve you, pregnant mom, then we don't understand the Gospel. Right. Right. And you know, it ties into I didn't know I was going to mention this this early, but it just flows into it. It ties into this idea that and this has been attributed to probably everyone's favorite theologian over the years or favorite preacher over the years. I don't know actually who said it. But Preach the Gospel at all times. It when necessary, use words. Right, I heard that one. Oh yeah, yeah, one of my least favorite. Yeah, well, you know, it's cute, you know, and it makes the world think. Oh, these people are not just about shoving the Gospel Down People's throats. There about helping others, right, which we should help mothers. I mean we're not. This podcast is not saying we shouldn't help others, but that idea preach the Gospel and, when necessary, use words is like, yes, stupid. Yeah, they're say, you know, they're saying it's get you should demonstrate it with your life, but not speak with your words, which, it is true, you should demonstrate with you likely, but that's not what the Bible says about how we are to share the Gospel. Yeah, I mean that would say preach the Gospel and it's necessary to use words like in order to preach the Gospel.

3:13 And you have the gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Those gospels were written down their words. They are written right to be broadcast about this Jesus, and right, you know, Paul and First Corinthians, Chapter Fifteen, the first couple of verses there in First Corinthians, Chapter Fifteen, he says it's The Gospel that I delivered to you, which I received. And Yeah, and he lays out that Jesus Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, that he was buried on the third day he rose again, according to the scripture. So the Gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Correct. And sometimes we fall into the trap, and I think it's possible that's what Matt Chandler's here doing in this quote, if fall into the trap of, you know, trying to guess, trying to look good to the world and try not to look like just preachy people.

3:54 What we should be doing good things, and you know those two things. It's not like it's mutually exclusive, like you can preach the Gospel, use words and you can do good for others. We're commanded to do good for others. Were commanded to, you know, in these situations, to as best we can to help these women. But the question is, and it's in it's a misconception that I like to tear down with folks, with our new volunteers and with other folks that I talked to about pro life issues is that, you know, we can't go out there to an abortion clinic, or we can't be in a pregnancy center in ministry, or we can't stand, you know, in a protest situation with a sign saying abortion is murder, unless we're willing to help all of the women that would come to an abortion to have an abortion right it. Is that really true and as that mentality really biblical? Yeah, and and we can't speak against abortion without having the resources to help women who would consider abortion right right and to meet the needs that they are using to justifyables. Yeah, you know, one of the things that I like to do whenever these sorts of statements are made is kind of show the ludicrousness of those statements by giving other examples, not of an unborn child, so sort of like a fault experiments, kind of kind of just substituting a different, different words, but that give the basic same idea. So so what if the memes said, as a church, we must not say that's sexual abuse of two year olds is wicked, without saying

5:24 to all fathers we will serve you. Yeah, okay, that's not all that different from except now we're talking about instead of an unborn and an abortion, which is a legal and increasingly socially acceptable form of murder. We're talking about something that most people agree with, that that two year old should not be sexually is. If you don't agree with that, then turn this podcast off and right, right and go get demons cast out. Okay, so here's anotherhood. How about this? As a church, we must not say of drunk drivers who kill innocent children, murderers, unless we provide programs to every alcoholic. All right, yeah, and you know, these thought experiments and you kind of analogies help us to see the absurdity, right, of what's being said. Right. So you know what Matt Chandler says again, going back to that you we must not say of abortion. Then it's murder without saying to the mother. will serve you right. Well, let's ask ourselves the question then and again. I'm not picking on Matt Chandler, is you know, it's a situation where we could ben I can't see how, but maybe he was taken out of context. It's just a little quote.

6:33 I think the human coalition or somebody put it out in a meme, right, and and it's some other folks grab don't do it. Say this is what. What is it? What is he even talking about? So we're not picking on him, but we have to ask yourself, though, is abortion really murder? And, you know, I would say take even a step further than that. Is it mass genocide? Is it like unto the Holocaust, because I think most prolife folks would agree that it is. I mean, we're looking at sixty five million plus, right, so that's almost, you know, ten times as many people that were killed in the Holocaust and I think we all would look back at the Holocaust and say that was a terrible, massive loss of innocent life and it was something that we as a society, we, you know, human being, should look back and say that should never have happened. Right, is abortion? Is the abortion Holocaust like unto that? And it would always be, you know, Tan amount to saying to you know, these Nazis who many felt like they were doing their country and economic good by getting rid of these people that they perceive to be the problem that, you know, we can't say to these Nazis, Hey, don't, don't pack these Jews away and in cattle cars and send him off to concentration camps and ultimately kill them, like we're not able to say that unless we offer them some kind of rehabilitation, profect or in the economic conditions that they needed. That they were saying, if we get rid of the Jews, it will increase whatever prosperity. Yeah, and so

8:03 what do we need to be sure we're? Should we have been sure Germany was economically prosperous and then say, Oh and by the way, don't right. Yes, three million Jews are however many million Jews they can yeah, and really the question is this. Do we have any right to go and tell moms going into an abortion clinic or MOMS who are struggling in their hearts and minds of whether or not to have an abortion, that we have any right to tell them not to kill their children if we don't have the resources available to meet their needs or if we're not willing to make the sacrifices that we would have to make as a church, as a ministry, as an individual, like if we're not willing to take a mother in our house who's getting who's going to be kicked out of her house unless she has an abortion, right, do we have any right to tell her not to have that abouttion, right, and some folks will say no, yeah, we need to be be willing to open our house. And I'm not saying because you know, some of our volunteers have literally done that. Some volunteers have literally, literally taken MOMS who were going to be homeless into their homes from the abortion clining. Yep, you serve all some testimony. So, yeah, that's that's something that, you know, some of our folks have been willing to do. But, as everyone, should everyone be willing to do that?

9:16 Yeah, and and of course not, of course not. So, as in all things, it's it's really valuable. Says, what does the Bible say? Yeah, does does the Bible the exactly does the Bible Guide us in this? And so, when I was working on this article, does the Bible talk about proclamations by the Church regarding we could behavior? Okay, and how are we to talk about or are we to talk about we could behavior? Do we need to just the Bible talk about providing social programs first or whatever? So some of the some of the verses that I found, these are verses for all from proverbs twenty eight. Okay, I just looked at the one proverb the wicked flee when no one is pursuing, but the righteous are bold as a lion. All right, those who forsake the law praise the wicked, but those who keep the law strive with them.

10:20 He who leads the upright astray in an evil way will himself fall into his own pit. But the blame was blameless will inherit good. He who confesses and forsakes transgressions will find compassion. A man who is laden with the guilt of human blood will be a fugitive until death. Let no one support him. He who rebukes a man will afterward find more favor, favor than he who flatters with the tongue. In other words, in all of these verses, the righteous are bold. Who are the righteous? The Bible tells us, right, who are the righteous? Well, I mean, of course we all know there's none righteous. So we're not. We're not righteous in and of ourselves, right, but when we become Christians, we take on the righteousness of Christ and you and the Bible's pretty clear that you are.

11:13 You are righteous in Christ and so yeah, I mean we could, as Christians, say we're the righteous by the grace of God, and we're told we who are righteous are to be bold as lions. Yeah, in exposing evil. So yess club. Sure, proverbs twenty eight is a good one. The what there were many. That was throughout proverbs twenty eight, where I didn't give the specific verses, but you can, you can look them up. But so, what does boldness entail? And you touched on this right at the beginning. Is Boldness just demonstrating by our lives that we are reflecting God and and showing God's atoning sacrifice for us, the Gospel, through our behavior? It should. But is that boldness? Right? And there were a lot of scriptures about boldness. And listen to the active verb.

12:15 Okay, in all of these scripture into some grammar, grammar, and there, yeah, this is a grammar. Let's I was an English major in a little bit worried. Yeah, okay, okay, in axe twenty eight, thirty one, proclaiming the Kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus with all boldness. Yeah, proclaiming, right, that's the active verb. We are proclaiming with all boldness. Okay, how about this one? If Heesian six nineteen, but also for me that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly right, to proclaim the mystery of the Gospel effician, six nineteenth people. So all again. Right. And what does he do? He opens his mouth boldly, not catch flies, right, right, probably to speak, probably say okay, Second Timothy, three hundred and sixteen, all scriptures breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness. Now, the word boldly wasn't in there, but it does tell us, tell us that we are to correct others. Now I want to ask how can we correct others if we're you're not speaking. Yeah, how are we going to correct well, you know, someone might well say, you know, if someone's living a lifestyle that's destructive, if you live a lifestyle that honors God and it's not destructive in front of them, MMM, then that's a way that you can correct them. Your life can be a rebuke, right, and and that correction,

13:46 presumably, would take some time. So what if? What if the need for correction is when there's a life or death on the line in front of me? Yeah, because I mean to that situation. And you would say, if somebody's, you know, it's let's say you have next door neighbors that are living, you know, sexually and moral. Maybe they're shacked up and they're cohabitating. They're not married in right, you know, I mean my wife were going to live an awesome married life in front of these people. Be a display. Yes, and Amen, you should right. But those it's not like an either or situation. M You need to be speaking the Gospel. That I mean you're shoving it down their throat. It doesn't mean you in the situation of abortion that we need the we're not saying you need to stand in front of abortion clinic and yell you murderer. You feel the murder or your abortion is murder, anything like that. But you do need to use words right in order to proclaim the Gospel and you do need to use words in order to proclaim, two women going into an abortion clinic and men at the abortion clinic that abortion is wrong. Right. We've talked about it a bunch and so I don't think that we need to backtrack and qualify what we're saying, but I'LL DIS mantine it. We're not, as a ministry, standing in front of the abortion clinic just yelling at people.

15:00 We want to be gracious in our words, but we also do want to speak what we speak with boldness, with truth and with clarity. And you know, the Bible does tell us that there are actions that people should see, but they're not just the actions of living a righteous life. They are that, but listen to these actions. Okay, and in proverbs eleven, one of kind of a key verse for our ministry. Rescue those who are being taken away to death, hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter. Our actions are to prevent in a physical way. What is someone in a dire situation being led away to death, stumbling to the slaughter?

15:50 Where to hold them back? Where to rescue them? So we're to broke up, boldly, proclaim the Gospel, boldly, stand and act to deter the wicked. Yeah, I think the Bible's pretty clear about that and I just gave a very few verses that that talk about that. We are to confront evil boldly. Yeah, yeah, and the confrontation that were supposed to have with evil is often times a verbal confrontation, like you just mentioned. You know, the the Timothy Passage about reb rebuke and reproof. Those are those are verbal words. Yes, are they imply that you're using your mouth or using your words right, to bring a reproof, to bring a rebuke, to bring a correction. Yeah, and in none of these verses, by the way, and you can look through proverbs twenty eight, there is in the last verse in Proverb Twenty Eight, one call in a sense to social justice. That that verse. I'll just read it. He who gives to the poor will never want, but he who shuts his eyes will have many curses. But all of the other verses and in in proverbs twenty eight, we're talking about how to how to deal with the wicked. Yeah, but he gives to the poor. He doesn't say gives to the poor who have done some wickedness. It's just give to someone who's an unfortunate circumstances.

17:10 Right. That's a very different situation than what's happening at an abortion center. Yes or not? Just poor women? These are often poor women who are there murdering their baby. Yeah, well, you know, also there's this misconception that folks have about women going into abortion clinics, women that are having abortions. Now, I am not saying that there aren't difficult situations. There are. We encounter them on a regular basis. Just a few days ago we were talking about this. We had a situation where a young lady's boyfriend was in essence, trying to force her to have an abortion. There was a such a scuffle he busted the window over car out with the Rock and and you thankfully she didn't have the abortion, praise God, but she was under a lot of pressure right and she was, you know, still is under a lot of pressure. That situation hasn't just disappeared because she left the abortion clinic. Yeah, and we encounter, I mean, any situation you can think of that might could potentially just find abortion, we encountered. But the fact is the vast, vast, vast majority of the women that we encountered at an abortion clinic are in no way victims, in no way, you know, being pressure to have an abortion. I mean we see him go in and and they almost like they kill their baby just for spite.

18:26 Yeah, of us. Now again, I'm not tagging everyone that has an abortion with that kind of mentality or whatever, but I'm just saying our experience has been and if and if you have this mentality, I guess what I'm getting at is, if you have the mentality that women that have abortions to just pure, poor innocent victims. Then come out with us for a couple of days, come out and join us on the sidewalk and you'll see that they're not just victims. We did a podcast about this. Are Women that have abortions victims? And and we talked about biblically and and from a biblical perspective. You know, in a sense we're all victims of the lies of the enemy. Doesn't give us justification for doing the sins and things that we do. Do we do a podcast, but did? Yeah, we did.

19:07 Okay, yeah, so you remember. It's awesome to I remember it so so vividly right now. Not Really, but listen to it. It's awesome. So the idea that women are poored, just poor innocent victims of their circumstances and that's why they have an abortion, it's just a misconception, right. It is. It is and that you know. We see women go in and we see women come out and we see many come out with tears in their eyes and their hearts are broken and it's grievous for us to see them come out and it's basically okay, you've been duped by the devil. He told you go in and have the abortion and it's going to be all right. And you're saying the comforter going in is your accuser. Come Out, look what you've done, and so hard to see. But the vast majority are not like that. The vast majority to come out and they got their middle finger up and they, you know, speed out just despite you. Right, there's something on facebook right now, I believe they're quotes and testimonies. I think it's called not a victim. Yeah, and and it's quotes and testimonies from women who are post abortive and who talked about they admit, look, I am not a victim and they'll describe their wickedness and you can going into that abortion. So, yeah, I haven't looked much into that, but yeah, yeah, you know, and are not that many of them are not. They're not and they admit they're not. And I think another another way that we can approach whether this meme is true or not is to think about are there any biblical examples of Prophets, messengers of God, anyone who God has sent to confront evil, to confront wicked?

20:44 Yeah, who are also told by God but first make sure all those social programs that are necessary to take care of all those wicked people's needs are in place. Yeah, yeah, well, you know, you think about the children of Israel and and their rebellion against God, and I know you're going to talk a little bit about Moses. To be going on, even pass Moses, H Huh, if you're looking at Jeremiah, the prophet is they write these men were called to a difficult task, right, they were called to expose the sin of the nation of Israel, their rebellion and their idolatry. And again, it was not an easy task. And it's not like these people were involved in, you know, just you know, bad gambling deals or they are, you know, you know, doing just underhanded things.

21:36 They were involved literally in sacrificing their children to demons, to Pagan Gods, right, little g and so they were dealing with in a lot of ways, what we're talking very similar. So it's the absolutely murderabness the innocent babies. So hop into what you've got. They well, so some of the I was just thinking of some of the people who were commanded by God to confront wickedness, because that's what basically chandler is talking about. Pastor chandlers is saying, okay, you're confronting the wickedness of abortion. Well, you can't call it murder until you've set up all of these programs that are going to help those this women. That's what he means by we will serve you, whatever your needs are. We will, we will serve you. So let's think about Moses. Okay, he comes off the mountain with the Ten Commandments and he sees his people of Sir biling down to a false god that they had made right, the golden calf that they had made, and so Moses right away breaks the ten commandments and then offers them an idolatry, idolatry recovery program right. Yeah, I mean of course. I mean while Whitney, you knows. How could he tell them, you idolatrous, idolatrous people, you have defied a holy God, unless he first makes sure that there is a recovery program in place? Of course they need an idolatry cover every program and he would have that in place before he even right got angry through down the tablets. Of course, that's an absurdity that that's not what happened.

23:07 Action are in this article and I saw the idolatry recovery program I had to laugh. That's that's really funny. That's really classic. But again it shows the absurdity of what we're talking about. And right just probably keep saying this because I feel I don't just throw this brother under the bus. I'm sure he meant well and what he's saying, but this is a learning and teachable moment. I think that we can just tear down some really barriers now and I think an important point to this and why we felt like we needed to tackle this, is that it is a barrier for people coming out to the sidewalk because they don't feel like, number one, that they're equipped to come out to the sidewalk and be a voice for the voices. Number two, you listen, you're flesh and the devil will give you all kinds of reasons not to obey God and be a voice to the voiceless. And you know, I don't have the financial resources to help a mom. I mean, what if? What if a mom needs a place to stay and and I can't bring her into my house. I have so many kids already and and I have so much to take care of already. I can't do that.

24:07 And so people it'll be a barrier for some people to think I can't say abortion is murdering go out there and stay until him not to murder their children, if I can't help them in this this and this way and again, it'll be a barrier. And you know, Moses certainly didn't have that as a barry as he dealt with the children of Israel and and you ultimately was he do? He takes the Golden Calf and grinds it into powder and makes them drink it. I mean that this is so shure, because that was he is social repecovery program this this brother was series about this, this thing. You know, another danger, as long as we're talking about the dangerous because, like you said, no, we don't mean to pile on Matt Chandler. Right, yeah, he seems like a great guy from the little I know about him. But but this, I think, is a very real, impresent danger of a meme like that and the message of that meme. The moms themselves who are go going into abort their children use this excuse for why to abort their children. Just this morning I was there early.

25:10 There was a mom who had been dropped off by a cab driver. So I had fifteen minutes to talk with her before they open the door and we had a long exchange. Most of hers were four let a word and telling me to shut up and that I didn't have any right to say what I was saying. Just what what this meme says. Because was I going to take care of her baby? Yeah, and I said yes. I said yes, not me specifically, but I have a list of names of mother's who want a child. Have said any mother at the abortion center who says I need someone to take care of my baby and then I won't aboard?

25:56 So I am happy to provide that list with you, ma'am. And then she she went on to the next level. If I keep this baby, if I don't kill this baby. I don't think she said either kill or or baby, by the way, but she said, will you provide his college education? Again, it's the same philosophy. Unless we provide needs, and in fact all their needs, then they are justified in killing their baby, they think, and I don't think that's what probably Matt Chandler was saying, but they do not need to be forcibly confronted as I was, because her heart was clearly very hard. Right and and he I think that me it would tell me I had no right to confront her. Yeah, yes, and one, since it could discourage someone like you, who were going out there to be a voice for the voiceless, and it would encourage an abortive mother to say, well, if these people can't provide for all my needs, then then I'm just fine, justified. I absolutely aboard.

27:07 And if head, I've had women and men say to me, if you give me five thou dollars right now, won't have this abortion right. And it's like, okay, there's this selfishness there that we don't need to play into now. We don't, because we're never going to. Everybody has needs. We're never going to be AB Solucentis finding. So you know, I'll say this, and I've said this the volunteers, I've said this to myself, I've said this to you. If we had nothing, not a single resource. Thank God, maybe we'll get into some of that yet some point. Thank God. We have all kinds of resources here in Charlotte. You've got ministries, I mean we've got financial counselors that will sit down. We've got relationship counselors, we've got housing, ministry, clothing, food, I mean anything you can think of. It's amazing what God has done. Yeah, and they may not be like that in every city. Thankfully it's like that here. We thank God for that right. But if we had none of that, if the only thing that we had was our measily little voices and the only words we could eke out was don't murder your child, yeah, we would be still perfectly justified in standing in front of that abortion clinic.

28:15 Why? Because abortion is murder, because it's sin, because it's wrong, and we're commanded to speak out against that which is sin, that which is wrong. Right, tell they agree. Let me go on to another problem. Let's go in too an okay. Let's think about Jonah okay, going to Innova and he tells them to repent eventually. I mean at first he said in a way, was it. Yeah, you know, we went definitely ran from the Lord. He did, he did. But then he does go and and he tells them to repent. But before he tells them to repent, he sets up a crisis intervention center for bloodthirsty liars because he has to because because in in Jonah, one, one, two, two, the word of the Lord came to Jonah, the son of Amatos, saying arise, go to an inn of other great city and cry against it, for their wickedness has come up before me. And later we find out what that wickedness is. In Nahem, Uh Huh, chapter three, verse one, woe to the bloody city. He's talking about Nineveh completely full of lies and pillage. Her prey never depart. So their bloodthirsty, lying pillagers. Well, before we can call them those things, are confront them in their sin accord that see lying pillager crisis, ventiman center. And yeah, maybe they're blood maybe they're lying in bloodthirsty and pillagers because, you know, they don't have much. They were raising bad homes, right, maybe

29:48 they that was their example. Yeah, they're that's that's what their father did right for them, my father's father. And they just don't have it. They just need counseling. They just need counseling. Yeah, and and maybe that's the case, but still, yet we know the private Jonah was to go and to proclaim God's truth and give a warning of the consequences if they are to continue in sin. Now, of course, we know them into the story. Jonah was not so happy, no, about this, but I think God was very happy that this, that Nineveh, repented before God. Yeah, and that, you know, God was glorified in that city. For there is contants, a quick out intervention center there, Turk, without all of their needs being met and all the resources that they need.

30:33 It exactly just by speaking truth, by obeying God, speaking truth, exposed using the wickedness and urging them to turn repent and turn to God. And there was repentance. Yeah, so amazing what God's word will do. Even apart from resources and stuff, God's word changes heart. Yeah, now I would say I will say, and we've said this before, certainly are resources. Resources do soften these women so to a point where some of them will then say, okay, they're worth hearing. Yeah, and that's how the resources are valuable. I think it's one of our it's one of our three points we're dealing with when we're training. Sidewalk counts right. You'll see it on the sidewalks for life those who are listening and and maybe you'll go on the sidewalks for life site. It's one of our first couple of articles about the three talking points for sidewalk counselors. Right. First one is what does God say about this? So bringing God's truth, God's word, to bear in the situation. We believe that's first and most important. Secondly, the humanity of the baby, talking about this is a human being, describing fetal development and all of that. And third is the resources that are available.

31:41 So we talked about the resources. It's important for us to do that, for sure, right. Yeah. So, so our point, I think is, is is pretty clear that biblically, we don't see that God ever says don't confront evil or wickedness, don't confrol, front it boldly and don't confront it by speaking about it unless you have provided for the needs of those whom you are rebuking. He never says that. Never that I can see. And really our goal, and I think in likely Matt Chandler's goal, is to stop abortion, to to hopefully hold people back from the destructive act of abortion. Yeah, but meeting people's needs is never going to do that.

32:37 The only thing that is ultimately going to end abortion, individually and as a nation, is the Gospel. Right. And so then getting to the end of that mean? It says unless we provide for needs, we don't fully understand the Gospel, and I would disagree with that statement. Yeah, absolutely, because it does the Gospel talk about. Like what is the Gospel, Daniel, right? I mean I mentioned it earlier about the apostle. Paul tells us with the Gospel that he preached is, and he says it's the Gospel in which we stand. Yeah, so the it's the Death Bury Own resurrection of Jesus Preaching The Gospel. Now, just hear what I'm saying.

33:22 Don't hear what I'm not saying. Those you're listening preaching the Gospel does not include meeting People's physical needs. Right now, meeting people's physical needs can be a means to bring the Gospel to people, and meeting people's physical needs is a necessary component of those who have themselves receive the Gospel, like it's going to be a natural outflow of our hearts if we have something. You know, John says it in First John. He says if you see your brother in need and you don't meet his needs and you say well, go and be warm and filled, then the love of God doesn't abide in you. So obviously if you have something and your brother needs it bread. If you have bread, to loads of bread, and somebody needs it and you don't give it to him, then that's just evidence that you've not really understood the Gospel, your Heart's not been changed, because the Gospel has to do with us be rather than being a selfish person, becoming a selfless person, because we see the selfless act that the son of God did about giving his life on the cross for us. Yeah, but meeting people's physical needs is a means to bring the Gospel to people and to show them that we're genuine.

34:36 Right. It kind of I don't say it validates the Gospel. It just validates those who are bringing the Gospel. But the Gospel itself is very simple. We make it so complex, to make it so hard. You got to do this and you got to do that, and you got to say this and you got to say that and you've got to have this program in place and you've got to have this other program in place, to the point where, you know, our churches are full of social programs, children's programs, youth programs, all these programs and we think, well, these are what make up a church, and so a church has to have a kids program youth program of Elderly People Program and all this in order to be a church. No, to be a church you've got to be people who are bought by the blood of Jesus, who've come into a relationship with Jesus by the Gospel that's proclaiming God's word and it has, you, Biblical leadership and that sort of thing. It's the Gospel that's at the center of the Church. It's not this, I hate it. This, this this concept of the Social Gospel. Yeah, it's it's so foreign to what the apostles were preaching right in the New Testament, so foreign from what Jesus preached.

35:45 Now again, please don't hear what I'm not what I'm not saying. I'm not saying we shouldn't meet People's physical needs. I'm just saying that that's not part of the Gospels. Never, let's the outflow correct. It is is never, at least seem to God, with the Gospel. Now, yeah, it is never linked and and that's what I think the meme does. That's damaging. It links the ability to confront evil and the in fact the command to confront evil with a Social Justice Program Yeah, and and the Gospel just doesn't say that, right. We are to confront evil word, to convict people of sin, where to once they're convicted of sin, to talk about the just penalty for sin, once they understand that, to talk about how repentant and submission of a life to Jesus Christ, who died to pay the penalty for their sin, and that when he rose again, he conquered death and showed that he was God. Yeah, and the Holy Spirit enters and dwells us. And we are to go and make disciples of the world, not through social programs, right, but through continuing to preach that really pretty simple message. Yeah, that is it's very simple message. And you know, we believe that's why we say that's why this is the Gospel Center pro life podcast. This is why we say as a ministry, Cities for Life is a Gospel Centered Ministry. Is because we believe it's the Gospel that

37:16 changes a mother's heart. Right, it's not just, you know, the idea of social programs that's going to change your heart. It's going to show her that abortion isn't is an option in the sight of God, but it's God, by his spirit, coming into her heart, change in her heart and showing her her need for him. She surrenders to him. Now it never is that. You know, we goose. We've been accused of this. You ask, you tell people. Unless you ask Jesus into your life, right, unless you get saved, lets you become a Christian, we won't help you. That's not true, right, because we do have help. We do have, as I talked about earlier, all kinds of resources and stuff. So I mean it would make no sense for us not to help an atheist, someone who remained an atheist, with the practical resources, because that's another opportunity for us to share the Gospel. Right, and as we're giving out if we're doing a baby shower, we have a baby shower ministry. We do a baby shower, we're proclaiming the Gospel right now.

38:14 Doesn't mean the whole time. We're talking about sin and we're talking about Jesus, Death Bearing resurrection, but we are clearly presenting the Gospel, not just in given her baby stuff and saying Jesus loves you. We are laying out the Gospel that the Bible tells us is the Gospel. Yep, we're talking about sin, we're talking about the need for righteousness. We're talking about the need to turn to the Lord Jesus and put your faith in him. That's right, that's right. And and if they don't, we take back off a gift. Yeah, that's what you're going to give them. Give us that stuff back. I'm going to give it to somebody who will said Jesus, that's that's ridiculous, that's absurd. Right, but everything we do needs to be seasoned with the Gospel and our motivation is, you know, one preacher said, you know, if you bake someone a cake and you give them a cake and you do it out of the love of your heart and loving your heart and your love for Jesus, and you just leaving with a cake and you're not sharing the Gospel with them, you've sent them to hell with a cake. And Yeah, good is that? Yeah, a lot of our Social Gospel sort of preaching and this motivation. And again, I'm not saying we shouldn't have social programs. I mean if you look at the you know all the things over the years in Christian history, the things that have been birthed out of Christianity, you almost can't name. You know, I've in challenge. Atheist named for me five organizations that help poor people, and I would bet you at least three of those five are Christian or rooted in Christianity. So almost all humanitarian day is it's a Christian so that's float

39:45 out of an innocence, a natural outflow. But this idea that you know, this Social Gospel, is the Gospel is, is again completely foreign to the biblical concept of proclaiming the Gospel Right, right, and so you know, we are called to bring to bear the truth of who Jesus is and to give people an opportunity, by appealing to to them by the Holy Spirit, to turn to the Lord Jesus. And don't shrink back from the fact that if you're a believer, the Holy Spirit and dwells you and, like we said earlier, guide you in all righteousness. And you do know wickedness, you do know right, you do know right from wrong, you do know evil and you are called by God to rescue those that are on a path of destruction. And how can you do it if you don't name evil, call it what it is? Yeah, and then rescue those on that terrible path. Yeah, absolutely, it's what we're called to do. It's what the church is called to do. We're called to proclaim the Gospel, to make disciples of all nations, as the Scripture says, right. And you know, if we have the means to meet practical needs, we don't do because it's the Gospel, we do it because it's a natural outflow of who we are, what God has done in us. Yeah, and you know, and I want to encourage all you guys who are listening who maybe this is a barrier to you, maybe thinking, you know, I can't meet this need, I can't do that, I can't do this that.

41:10 You know what, through that aside, abortion is murder. Yeah, you have a voice. Those babies that are murdered. Don't Goole in your voice right now. I get it, because some folks a barrier to them as they see some of the some of the other folks who are involved at abortion clinics or abortion ministry that are just pretty pretty nasty about it. You know, we've got a guy locally we may have mentioned, who, you know, stands in front of the abortion clinic and just yells about murder and it's just it's over the top. It's not helpful. So I get it. Maybe that's a barrier to some of you people. You don't want to be associated with that. I get it. Understand that. And that's a question of tone. Yeah, I think more than anything, more than the message, even more than the words, is the tone and and the and the motivation behind it. If if your motivation and your tone is angry and condemning, that that's not what we're talking about. But Ye, say confront sin.

42:01 Yeah, yeah, can confront sin, as Jesus did just matter of factly, this is right, this is wrong. Turn from it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, I get that. They're all kinds of barriers and when the future will talk about some more of those barriers. We talk about, and we have before, about the what we believe biblically's the proper tone, and think things that say that you can say that are really helpful. But this idea that, you know, you have to meet everybody's needs, or you have to have social programs, you have to be willing to you know, whatever you know, people think they need to be willing to do in order to speak out against murder of children. It's just it's just a misconception. That's wrong and you know, I think in this sense. You know, if I could have a conversation with Matt Chandler, I would let him know I hate hey man, will this back a little bit because because it can be a barrier for people right and because he's got some good messages about abortion, powerful messages. He's got a big church there that you know he's not holding back the truth. It is not justifying a portion, which is awesome. Yeah, I'm encouraged by some of the stuff I hear from him and appreciate the brother what I know of him.

43:07 And and so we're not saying don't listen to him anymore. We're just springboard and off of that to help you guys. Hopefully this was a blessing to you guys. You got anything else you want to touch on? Pretty much, though. Okay, pretty much everything. I yeah. Well, great. Well, we hope you guys were blessed by this podcast. Hope you're blessed by our other podcast. We hope that you guys will share these podcasts. We're trying to put out content. We put out a podcast every week Thursday morning. We were doing Wednesday morning. It's just a lot easier for me to put them out on Thursday mornings. So I do that and hope you guys are blessed and hope you're blessed enough to share it. Leave us a review in apple podcasts APP or in the Google podcast APP or wherever you listen to podcasts, and let us know what you think. You reach out to me, reach out to Vicki. Let us know if there's some subjects you want us to cover, if there's something we may be just kind of went over real quickly and you want to get in more in depth.

43:58 We'd love to hear those suggestions from you. I'M D parks at cities for lifecom. She's V Cosi Org. That's her email address. We cost you work at cities for lifecom. As always, you can visit our wwe bea dot sidewalks, the number four lifecom website, where we post a lot of articles and things about what we talked about on the podcast and sidewalk counseling and so anyway, we hope you guys were blessed. I hope you have a good week and, God bless give me our love for love, give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious and some met you