July 22, 2021

Victim of Rape - Mock Session

Victim of Rape - Mock Session

We had a lot of positive feedback on the mock session we did a few months ago so we decided to do another one. in this episode, we listen to and critique a mock session Vicky and a local volunteer recorded with the volunteer pretending to be a victim...


We had a lot of positive feedback on the mock session we did a few months ago so we decided to do another one. in this episode, we listen to and critique a mock session Vicky and a local volunteer recorded with the volunteer pretending to be a victim of rape going into the abortion center. 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:09.070 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me. Welcome 2 00:00:09.109 --> 00:00:12.550 to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. This episode we're going to play for 3 00:00:12.630 --> 00:00:17.070 you and then critique a video that we recorded of a mock session between Vicky 4 00:00:17.149 --> 00:00:19.989 and one of our counselors. They pretended to be a victim of rape. 5 00:00:20.269 --> 00:00:23.059 We believe this will be helpful and equipping to you, so stay tuned. 6 00:00:25.899 --> 00:00:38.530 I felt show passish touch your welcome to the Gospel centered pro life podcast. 7 00:00:38.649 --> 00:00:43.890 Appreciate you guys joining us and, as always, appreciate you guys sharing this 8 00:00:44.009 --> 00:00:50.000 podcast on social media or whatever outlets that you have. Email, maybe even 9 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.200 snail mail. Write someone to let her and tell them. Does anyone do 10 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:56.840 that anymore? They don't come. I'm just wasting my breath on that one, 11 00:00:57.320 --> 00:01:00.880 but let people know as best you can that they can listen to the 12 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:03.909 Gospel centered pro life podcast. Leave us a review. We would love to 13 00:01:03.989 --> 00:01:08.870 hear what you think about this podcast. We'd also love to hear some suggestions 14 00:01:08.909 --> 00:01:12.829 that you have of things that we can cover. We why we do a 15 00:01:12.870 --> 00:01:15.549 lot of the episodes that we do. We have people send us an email, 16 00:01:17.030 --> 00:01:19.859 say something on social media or just in a conversation. Hey, have 17 00:01:19.939 --> 00:01:23.659 you guys covered this? And if we haven't, we do. Yep, 18 00:01:23.939 --> 00:01:27.260 and sometimes we cover subjects a couple of times from different angles. Right, 19 00:01:27.340 --> 00:01:32.540 I'm before this podcast we're going to cover a subject that we hear a lot, 20 00:01:32.579 --> 00:01:37.049 at least get a lot of people suggesting that we do podcast episodes about 21 00:01:37.049 --> 00:01:38.730 this, and it's something that you deal with, or could deal with, 22 00:01:38.930 --> 00:01:42.329 on a regular basis if you're minister in front of an abortion center. Yeah, 23 00:01:42.769 --> 00:01:46.450 so we cover subjects from different angles and this subject is going to be 24 00:01:46.489 --> 00:01:51.159 dealing with women who are victims of rape. We covered, I guess, 25 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:55.599 in some months ago and one of our hard cases, because we went through 26 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:57.680 how to deal with these different hard cases that you face, and rape is 27 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:01.349 probably the most common hardcase that you'll face at the abortion center. As far 28 00:02:01.390 --> 00:02:06.230 as an objection to or an excuse. I don't want to I don't like 29 00:02:06.269 --> 00:02:07.509 to use the word excuse, but that's the best where I can think of 30 00:02:07.629 --> 00:02:14.189 right now for women going into the abortion center. That's like the hard cases 31 00:02:14.270 --> 00:02:15.580 that kind of stifle us and make us like, Oh, what do I 32 00:02:15.659 --> 00:02:21.180 say in this? That's the most common problem. So we did a case 33 00:02:21.259 --> 00:02:24.300 study of a young lady that we encountered actually at little tribe abortion center and 34 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:28.740 we kind of talk through she was a victim of rape. It didn't really 35 00:02:28.819 --> 00:02:31.610 come out until later on, as we built a relationship with her, that 36 00:02:31.810 --> 00:02:36.210 she was a victim of rape. So it's a different dynamic there. In 37 00:02:36.449 --> 00:02:39.370 this episode we're actually going to like like we did a couple of weeks ago 38 00:02:39.409 --> 00:02:45.120 we played for you a mock session of Vicky and Maddie pretending maddie was the 39 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.039 abortion mind of Mom Vicky was the counselor and, if you guys remember, 40 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:52.360 we just kind of played that, we critiqued it, we said what were 41 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:53.400 some of the good things? Were some of the things that could have been 42 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:58.000 done better? So we're going to do that in this episode. We're going 43 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:01.469 to play for you, it's about eight minutes or so of a mock session. 44 00:03:01.990 --> 00:03:06.669 So I think just that in itself would be really equipping for you guys. 45 00:03:07.469 --> 00:03:09.030 But then afterwards we're going to say, Hey, what are some of 46 00:03:09.069 --> 00:03:14.180 the things that we're done right? What are some of the things that Vicky 47 00:03:14.539 --> 00:03:17.219 royally screwed up on? And let's make fun of her for those things, 48 00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:21.580 of course. Yeah, and we're going to have fun now we're going to 49 00:03:21.659 --> 00:03:23.460 train you. Guess that's the whole point of all of this stuff. Yeah, 50 00:03:23.699 --> 00:03:28.810 and also want to note that, just like the other mock session that 51 00:03:28.930 --> 00:03:32.050 we did, this one was kind of done off the cuff, on the 52 00:03:32.129 --> 00:03:37.090 fly and sort of on purpose. Right. We could not practice, we 53 00:03:37.210 --> 00:03:40.090 did not have a script. On purpose. Yeah, and so the dynamic 54 00:03:40.409 --> 00:03:45.520 is likely going to be a little different because it's not a real mock session, 55 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:46.960 or it's not a real it's a real mock session, it's not a 56 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:51.840 real recorded session. So the flow would likely go a little different, the 57 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.550 interaction would likely be a little different, the objections could be a little different. 58 00:03:55.590 --> 00:03:59.270 But this is just kind of a general framework or some of the things 59 00:03:59.349 --> 00:04:04.629 you might say, some of the ways that you might react or shouldn't react 60 00:04:06.270 --> 00:04:10.219 to a woman. And so we'll play this for you, guys. We'll 61 00:04:10.300 --> 00:04:14.740 talk about it, it'll be equipping, it'll be encouraging and hopefully you'll be 62 00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:18.259 blessed and Jesus will be glorified. Oh, hey, there, hey there, 63 00:04:18.500 --> 00:04:21.579 my name is Vickie. Can Can I talk with you just just for 64 00:04:21.699 --> 00:04:26.769 a moment? Its in, I know. Are you on the way into 65 00:04:26.810 --> 00:04:30.370 the women's center? Yeah, well, let me give you this. My 66 00:04:30.449 --> 00:04:34.930 Name and my number is on the back here and and we're here offering hope 67 00:04:34.970 --> 00:04:40.040 and help. I just want to know what what's like, the big thing 68 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:45.399 that's sending you into this place. Well, I was raped. So I 69 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.040 oh, I am so sorry. Is the the man who did this? 70 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:55.310 Is He behind bars? No, no, he's not. So they haven't 71 00:04:55.310 --> 00:04:59.310 caught him yet. Or what? It's a family member. It's a family 72 00:04:59.389 --> 00:05:01.949 member. Good grief. So I want you to know right off hand if 73 00:05:01.990 --> 00:05:09.420 if your family is hesitant to pursue prosecution, and that is not unusual, 74 00:05:09.459 --> 00:05:13.060 if that families feel that way. But remember you might not be the last 75 00:05:13.100 --> 00:05:16.420 one that he does that too, and it is an act of kindness to 76 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:21.730 others to to bring that man to justice. God is a god of Justice 77 00:05:21.850 --> 00:05:26.610 and he would not have any of US turn the other cheek to that kind 78 00:05:26.649 --> 00:05:30.129 of a violation. But there are groups here in Charlotte that could help you. 79 00:05:30.329 --> 00:05:36.160 Like have you contacted any of the domestic violent organizations? No, I 80 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:40.759 haven't. Kind of scared to do that. I'm sure you are, but 81 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:43.839 but let me just let you know that on the back here. I think 82 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:47.120 we have that resource and if we don't, well, they're sex trafficking. 83 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:50.790 If we don't, I can get you the resource for domestic violence and there's 84 00:05:50.829 --> 00:05:57.430 there's in the Charlotte area there's also a group that helps, helps to find 85 00:05:57.470 --> 00:06:01.389 a safe place for you and even can help you to provide to provide legal 86 00:06:01.470 --> 00:06:04.459 counsel to help you. So I want to just start with that. Do 87 00:06:04.579 --> 00:06:08.939 you know how far along you are? No, I don't. You don't 88 00:06:08.980 --> 00:06:12.459 know. Well, do you know that if you've missed your period? I 89 00:06:12.500 --> 00:06:15.660 assume you have. Right, you've missed your period. You know that your 90 00:06:15.019 --> 00:06:21.730 baby's heart is already beating, already as really as seventeen days and as early 91 00:06:21.769 --> 00:06:28.290 as six weeks, your little baby already has detectable brain waves. So I 92 00:06:28.490 --> 00:06:31.089 just want you to know it. Do you believe in God? Yeah, 93 00:06:31.089 --> 00:06:36.120 yeah, and so has that caused any conflict thinking about I know this is 94 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:42.680 terrible, terrible situation, but what is your heart tell you? God would 95 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:46.199 have you do? Well, I just every day I'm pregnant I'm going to 96 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:48.470 be thinking about this trauma and I think God understands that and he has to 97 00:06:48.550 --> 00:06:53.670 understand the like. That's incredibly hard on me and yeah, I just I 98 00:06:53.790 --> 00:06:56.470 just want to be done with it. Yeah, you know, I hear 99 00:06:56.550 --> 00:07:00.790 you, I get it. I understand that you don't want to remember that 100 00:07:00.029 --> 00:07:05.019 trauma at all and every day of your pregnancy. You're telling me that's what 101 00:07:05.220 --> 00:07:09.620 your focus will be. But you know what, let me let me read 102 00:07:09.620 --> 00:07:13.259 you a verse before we go any further on. You said you believe in 103 00:07:13.339 --> 00:07:15.209 God. I just want to read you this first. It's from from Second 104 00:07:15.209 --> 00:07:19.370 Timothy Six. For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift 105 00:07:19.410 --> 00:07:23.129 of God, which is you, through the lane on of my hands, 106 00:07:23.529 --> 00:07:28.649 for the spirit of God does not make us timid, but gives us power, 107 00:07:29.449 --> 00:07:31.959 love and selfdiscipline. In other words, we don't have a spirit of 108 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:35.959 fear before God. And I know that there's this fear that this is what's 109 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:42.639 going to be in your heart. But I've studied research that looks at rape, 110 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:48.670 and do you know that most of the women who keep their baby, 111 00:07:49.189 --> 00:07:53.149 which is most victims of rape? I don't know if you know that, 112 00:07:53.310 --> 00:08:00.019 but seventy percent of rape victims keep their child, and of the thirty percent 113 00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:05.220 who go and have an abortion, seventy eight percent of them regret it. 114 00:08:05.699 --> 00:08:11.420 But of the seventy percent that keep their baby, how many do you think 115 00:08:11.019 --> 00:08:18.490 regret keeping that child? I couldn't imagine. I mean maybe once they had 116 00:08:18.529 --> 00:08:22.449 it. I just feel like every day that I looked at my child that 117 00:08:22.569 --> 00:08:24.970 it would be just like remembering the trauma that everything that happened as you're as 118 00:08:26.009 --> 00:08:31.879 you're looking at that baby. As a matter of fact, what overwhelmingly the 119 00:08:31.039 --> 00:08:37.320 videos on Youtube, of which there are many, of rape victims, the 120 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:46.190 only positive experience or memory that comes out of that rape, horrific act is 121 00:08:46.309 --> 00:08:52.389 the birth and the beauty of that precious life. So, even though I 122 00:08:52.710 --> 00:08:56.779 understand totally where you're coming from, it it yeah, I know that it's 123 00:08:56.899 --> 00:09:03.139 horrible, but think about this, the act of rape, that was a 124 00:09:03.779 --> 00:09:09.940 violent act against an innocent human being, right, you, right, right. 125 00:09:11.210 --> 00:09:16.529 What do you think abortion is? It's a violent act against an innocent 126 00:09:16.570 --> 00:09:22.730 victim, that that child didn't cause the rape or any of your situation. 127 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.840 The child is innocent and the child, by all human beings, is made 128 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:33.879 in the image of God. The child is not the rapist. The child 129 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:41.950 shares your DNA and and God has created that life. God is the one 130 00:09:41.990 --> 00:09:46.789 that creates all life. So I'm not saying God wanted the rate. That 131 00:09:46.070 --> 00:09:50.549 is clear. That that is sin, but in any other area of your 132 00:09:50.710 --> 00:09:56.139 life, would you deal with sin? And I know it's not your own 133 00:09:56.259 --> 00:10:03.980 sin, but would you deal with sin by doing something that grieves and is 134 00:10:03.659 --> 00:10:09.250 rebelling against God and really a greater sin the murder of an innocent child? 135 00:10:09.769 --> 00:10:16.409 I don't know, I just I see what you're saying and it's it is 136 00:10:16.529 --> 00:10:20.049 convicting, but it's just like I just wanted all to be over, like 137 00:10:20.169 --> 00:10:24.879 it's right. It's so much to think about, so much hurt and scary. 138 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.679 Yeah, yeah, and I understand one in it all over, but 139 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:33.080 I just would urge you to look at some of those testimonies of rape victims 140 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:37.190 that you can find on the Internet, and I can send you even the 141 00:10:37.269 --> 00:10:41.110 link to the study I'm talking about, because it's not all over. When 142 00:10:41.149 --> 00:10:48.269 the baby is killed, then there's this new trauma their face. Can I 143 00:10:48.350 --> 00:10:50.980 encourage you to come and look at your baby on a mobile ultrasound unit, 144 00:10:52.019 --> 00:10:54.620 or even I there's a pregnancy resource center right near here. I would love 145 00:10:54.700 --> 00:10:58.779 to just bring you over there and let you look at your baby before you 146 00:10:58.940 --> 00:11:03.370 make this decision. I think, I think I just need to think about 147 00:11:03.370 --> 00:11:07.649 it for a while. Andy Smer time. Okay, but I'll keep this, 148 00:11:07.970 --> 00:11:11.009 can you? I would like you to keep that in. My Name 149 00:11:11.049 --> 00:11:13.090 and number is on the back here and you can call me at any time. 150 00:11:13.570 --> 00:11:18.129 But would it be okay if I pray give you before before you go 151 00:11:18.330 --> 00:11:20.960 in there? For sure. Dear father, Lord, I'm sorry, what 152 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:26.360 was your name again? Sarah, Sarah. Dear father, Lord, I 153 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.279 pray for Sarah. I know that this is horrific what she's going through, 154 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:35.509 and I see the sorrow and the despair and what happened to her was terrible, 155 00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:39.389 a violent act against an innocent human being. But, Lord, I 156 00:11:39.750 --> 00:11:45.590 pray convict Sarah, that the last thing she wants to do is to go 157 00:11:45.870 --> 00:11:48.820 on and do a violent act against her baby. So I pray, like 158 00:11:48.980 --> 00:11:52.539 in that verse I read, Give Her a spirit of strength, not of 159 00:11:52.779 --> 00:11:58.100 fear. Give her not a spirit of timidity, but of trust and face 160 00:11:58.379 --> 00:12:03.090 than you and we will help her, father, help convict her heart that 161 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:05.970 she is not alone, we will walk alongside her through this, we will 162 00:12:05.970 --> 00:12:09.889 help link her with the resources that can help her and we will be there 163 00:12:09.970 --> 00:12:15.720 for her. But, most importantly, father, you are always there and 164 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:20.559 you promise you are a refuge and a strength and I pray that Sarah puts 165 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:26.720 her trust and her faith in that, not in the evil act of abortion, 166 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.870 which I know she doesn't really want to do. We are praying in 167 00:12:30.950 --> 00:12:35.950 the name of Jesus Christ. Are for Amen. Sarah. I'm praying for 168 00:12:37.110 --> 00:12:46.940 you. I appreciate thank you. By okay, so we hoop. That 169 00:12:46.059 --> 00:12:50.419 was a blessing. And is there like, do you have the video, 170 00:12:50.460 --> 00:12:54.899 because that was that was originally a video, right the gout. You have 171 00:12:54.019 --> 00:12:58.850 that posted somewhere now? Okay, not yet. All right, so we 172 00:13:00.009 --> 00:13:03.649 won't have that available for you guys for video, but you can go back 173 00:13:03.690 --> 00:13:07.889 and listen to that audio is much as you want to. Yeah, but 174 00:13:07.970 --> 00:13:11.129 let's talk about some of the things that were that were done in that video. 175 00:13:11.210 --> 00:13:15.279 As you're right, a. Did you critique yourself? Okay, well, 176 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.639 I have two lists. I have what were the good things that the 177 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:24.200 counselor me did and what were the bad things? And well, there are 178 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.990 double good things, good things, double the good things and then the battery 179 00:13:28.309 --> 00:13:31.230 bad thing might be the opposite on your list. Okay, I don't know. 180 00:13:31.389 --> 00:13:35.629 But so so maybe let's start just back and forth with with kind of 181 00:13:35.669 --> 00:13:39.629 what we're some of the good things. So the first thing that and and 182 00:13:39.710 --> 00:13:43.299 I kind of just went in order of how the video preceded, which I 183 00:13:43.379 --> 00:13:48.100 think is what you did too. So the I gave the information to her 184 00:13:48.139 --> 00:13:52.179 right away. I got the literature in her hand right away. Was the 185 00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:54.460 first thing I did. Hey, my name is Vicky, you're heading to 186 00:13:54.500 --> 00:13:58.649 the abortion center, asked the question and then got the information in her hand. 187 00:13:58.769 --> 00:14:03.490 Yeah, so that's that's key. That's in and all of our cases. 188 00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:07.850 That's really what we would advise you make sure you do immediately get the 189 00:14:07.929 --> 00:14:13.600 information in their hands right absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, because you might lose 190 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:18.559 them in any point in any of these conversations that we have. For whatever 191 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.679 reason, you might lose her attention completely. A pro abortion person might come 192 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.789 along and butt into the situation. At least you get something into her hand 193 00:14:28.110 --> 00:14:31.470 right whatever reason, she might get just kind of lured into the abortion sent 194 00:14:31.590 --> 00:14:35.669 yeah, so you want to get that information on their hand right away. 195 00:14:35.909 --> 00:14:39.779 And that made me think of something else when you said that you kind of 196 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:43.820 want to let your conversation proceed in order of priority because of that very dynamic, 197 00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:48.299 you could lose her at any minute. So get the important things out 198 00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:52.370 pretty much as soon as you can, if possible. So the second thing 199 00:14:52.610 --> 00:14:58.769 that happened was I asked her the major obstacles. Yeah, which is actually 200 00:15:00.169 --> 00:15:03.370 something that you do, and when you told me that you did that, 201 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:05.289 I thought you know that. However, you phrased it that you know, 202 00:15:05.409 --> 00:15:07.759 what's the one thing? I think you say, what's the one thing that 203 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:13.480 if I could remove that you would you would not be considering an abortion. 204 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:18.120 I think that's a really, really good thing to start with. Yeah, 205 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.269 so, in other words, ask the major obstacle that that's really important. 206 00:15:22.590 --> 00:15:26.909 You piggyback off of that, Right. Yeah, so, I mean one 207 00:15:26.950 --> 00:15:30.669 of the things I'll say is I'll word it differently every time. I'll say, 208 00:15:30.710 --> 00:15:33.309 if there's one thing, because there's likely a bunch of stuff going on 209 00:15:33.389 --> 00:15:37.940 in your life, but there's one thing that I could promise you we could 210 00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:39.539 take care of right now, right. What would be that one thing? 211 00:15:39.620 --> 00:15:43.740 Because I really do want to get to what's that thing on the forefront of 212 00:15:43.820 --> 00:15:48.460 her mind that makes her feel like abortion is an option for her right and 213 00:15:48.620 --> 00:15:52.610 so it could be a lot of times it's financial stuff, it's relational stuff 214 00:15:52.129 --> 00:15:56.210 and from time to time it might be like in this situation right, right, 215 00:15:56.370 --> 00:16:00.250 and that now that's not something that obviously, we can provide a resource 216 00:16:00.330 --> 00:16:04.320 in the same way that we provide resources that will make something go away. 217 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.879 Problem that nothing's going to make that rape go away. Yeah, exactly. 218 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.080 It is a little bit different. But as soon as as soon as she 219 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:18.710 said that, what I hoped that I conveyed, I think I did immediately, 220 00:16:18.950 --> 00:16:23.110 was to express compassion, sorrow. Yeah, show interest, ask about 221 00:16:23.269 --> 00:16:27.350 is is their justice? Yeah, is this guy behind bar orse? Yeah, 222 00:16:27.990 --> 00:16:32.669 I mean, I would say, the most important thing in this situation, 223 00:16:32.750 --> 00:16:36.340 in any other of the hard cases, any of the situations just in 224 00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:40.740 general, right, but especially in these hard cases, identifying with their pain. 225 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:45.220 Yes, not marginalizing their pain. Like I break down that word compassion. 226 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:48.730 Yeah, what it means is it means with calm, is with and 227 00:16:48.809 --> 00:16:52.450 passion, is actually suffering. Right. So you want to suffer with them, 228 00:16:52.850 --> 00:16:56.049 in their pain, feel their pain. It's real to them, especially 229 00:16:56.049 --> 00:17:00.610 in this situation where she's been violated. Yeah, we want identify with that. 230 00:17:00.970 --> 00:17:04.599 Now, I do say this, and and how do I say this 231 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:08.839 without so we don't want to marginalize people's pain and we don't want to accuse 232 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.880 them of lying. Okay, so right, off the bad. We don't 233 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:17.269 want to say all you're lying. Only one percent of all abortions are result 234 00:17:17.349 --> 00:17:21.029 of rape or whatever. Yeah, but do keep in the back of your 235 00:17:21.069 --> 00:17:23.950 mind. This is why I'll ask certain questions typically in those situations to really 236 00:17:23.990 --> 00:17:26.950 get to is that the case? Is She really a victim of rape, 237 00:17:26.950 --> 00:17:32.019 or is she just putting this out there to make me feel bad for talking 238 00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:33.619 to her? Because sometimes people will do that. Yeah, yeah, make 239 00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:37.140 you. They want to take some of the guilt that they're feeling and put 240 00:17:37.140 --> 00:17:38.980 it back on you, and so they think if, well, I'm a 241 00:17:38.980 --> 00:17:42.019 victim of rape, he'll feel bad for telling me not to have the abortion. 242 00:17:42.059 --> 00:17:45.089 Yeah, so you can keep that in the back of your mind, 243 00:17:45.089 --> 00:17:48.970 that sometimes they could be lying to you. But even if that's the case, 244 00:17:48.170 --> 00:17:51.809 you don't want to say, HAH, you're lying, there's no way, 245 00:17:52.089 --> 00:17:55.529 and then give them statistics to prove that they're lying. You do want 246 00:17:55.569 --> 00:17:59.880 identify with their pain, but you do also want to ask questions. It 247 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.400 provoke as much as you can. You're not going to rip open a wound, 248 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:06.720 you don't want to try to do that, but as much as you 249 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:11.480 can to get them they get them talking and to discern and and you know, 250 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.269 I think actually, and this was kind of by accident, but but 251 00:18:15.589 --> 00:18:21.029 the questions I did ask about the the rape best, yeah, and whether 252 00:18:21.069 --> 00:18:23.789 he was behind bars and everything. Ultimately she says it was a family member. 253 00:18:25.509 --> 00:18:29.259 Obviously I knew she wasn't really rape. She's she's acting this out, 254 00:18:29.339 --> 00:18:33.819 but had that been an actual mom those responsive would have tipped me off. 255 00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:37.220 I think that this was honestly a rape, that that this was sincerely a 256 00:18:37.299 --> 00:18:41.930 rape. And and you're right that often by asking questions it will reveal whether 257 00:18:42.490 --> 00:18:48.210 it is honestly an actual rape. Yeah, yeah, now I do want 258 00:18:48.210 --> 00:18:52.970 to say that you can come across in asking that question, because the way 259 00:18:53.049 --> 00:18:56.440 that you ask it, and I get it's not a real life scenario, 260 00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.000 so it probably wouldn't have been asked like that, but the way you ask 261 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:02.079 it was almost like immediate right. It's like Oh, really, well, 262 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:03.880 is he in Bard? He's he behind bars? Yeah, yeah, I 263 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.559 would probably wield that back a little bit and I would identify with her pain 264 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.869 a little more and I would try to understand what she's feeling a little more, 265 00:19:11.990 --> 00:19:15.750 yeah, than just to kind of go right after the justice thing. 266 00:19:15.789 --> 00:19:18.269 Yeah, not that we shouldn't go after that, not that we shouldn't be 267 00:19:18.390 --> 00:19:23.109 a I mean ultimately, that that's an honest and obvious question. If you 268 00:19:23.269 --> 00:19:26.859 were a victim of rape, right, that dude out to be behind bars. 269 00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:30.900 Yeah, and I might actually word it like that rather than rather than 270 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:33.579 trying to throw it back on her, like did you do what you need 271 00:19:33.619 --> 00:19:37.259 to do to get that guy locked up? Yeah, not that it's like 272 00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:42.690 was justice served? Right, because if she's genuinely here's my thinking as a 273 00:19:42.809 --> 00:19:48.650 man that believes that men are supposed to be protectors and guardians, my thinking 274 00:19:48.849 --> 00:19:52.039 is she's a victim of rape, that dirt bag needs to be behind bars, 275 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.000 right, and like, what can I do to make sure justices s 276 00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:59.440 yeah, so I'm going to identify with her pain, I'm going to help. 277 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:02.680 I'm going to help, I guess in that question. Is He behind 278 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:07.190 bars? What I want to provoke is in her that sense of justice exactly. 279 00:20:07.390 --> 00:20:10.630 That's a really good point and that was where God was brought into the 280 00:20:10.750 --> 00:20:14.990 discussion. God is a god of justice, and that's a double question for 281 00:20:15.109 --> 00:20:19.710 her. It's pointing to her circumstances, but it's also hoping that a part 282 00:20:19.710 --> 00:20:23.460 of her is recognizing what she's about to do that that baby, to that 283 00:20:23.579 --> 00:20:29.019 baby is not justice. Yeah, to your point, also, I didn't 284 00:20:29.059 --> 00:20:32.420 have at my fingertip. This was on my bad list. I didn't have 285 00:20:32.539 --> 00:20:36.890 at my fingertip the name or it just eluded me. I couldn't remember the 286 00:20:36.930 --> 00:20:40.329 name of Safe Alliance, which, which would have been the they have a 287 00:20:40.450 --> 00:20:45.289 safe house, they have lawyers that will that will help women who are victims 288 00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:49.000 of sexual crimes for free. I didn't have that at my fingertips. It 289 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:55.160 would really be a good idea if, in any wherever you are counseling, 290 00:20:55.400 --> 00:21:00.000 if there is some sort of a group that will help victims of rape, 291 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.079 it's good to have that information. Yeah, and be able to give her 292 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:06.630 that phone number and everything. I told her I would look it up, 293 00:21:06.710 --> 00:21:10.269 but and I actually thought that it might have been on our literature and it 294 00:21:10.470 --> 00:21:12.230 wasn't, which surprised me. So, you know, rookie mistake. I 295 00:21:12.309 --> 00:21:15.230 should have known that. I should have known what what our literature had. 296 00:21:15.430 --> 00:21:19.619 Yeah, but but in retrospect I wish I had had that that I that 297 00:21:19.700 --> 00:21:23.140 I could have told her, hey, here's an organization that will help you. 298 00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:26.500 Yeah, and that's also being compassionate. You know, saying Hey, 299 00:21:26.579 --> 00:21:32.819 we've got this group that could help you through through your struggles. So so 300 00:21:33.009 --> 00:21:37.930 the next thing I wrote down was that I did offer tangible help. I 301 00:21:37.009 --> 00:21:41.930 talked about domestic violence. But on the bad side, I didn't really have 302 00:21:41.170 --> 00:21:45.970 that resource right at my fingertip. Yeah, yeah, one of the things 303 00:21:45.009 --> 00:21:48.720 you can do for those things these days, of course, is Google it. 304 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:52.599 Right, not bad. It'd be better if you had some kind of 305 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.480 piece of literature, if you had some kind of number handily available, readily 306 00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:00.519 available, right, but if you have to google it, then Google it. 307 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.829 Yeah, yeah, and help point them to resources. I think that 308 00:22:03.990 --> 00:22:07.869 is an important thing that you did in that back and forth. Yes, 309 00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:12.150 point her to resource to end, but the resources I had. That as 310 00:22:12.150 --> 00:22:15.460 a good and a bad also, because the the resources that I pointed her 311 00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:22.859 to were all about the rape and and helping to get just as protection, 312 00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:26.700 legal help if necessary. For the rape experts, that would counsel what to 313 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:30.730 do with a family member, which is difficult for us. We're not trained 314 00:22:30.890 --> 00:22:36.690 counselors in in you know, trained to deal with rape victims necessarily. Yeah, 315 00:22:36.809 --> 00:22:40.609 but but what I didn't mention, if you think back to the entire 316 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:45.920 interaction, were other resources. I didn't talk about baby showers, I didn't 317 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:49.720 talk about a mentor, I didn't talk about she did not need to feel 318 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:55.119 alone in all of this. Yeah, normally I do. I was really 319 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.710 focusing on what are the things specific to a rape victim, but I think 320 00:22:57.789 --> 00:23:02.630 had it been a real life situation, those are things I hope I would 321 00:23:02.670 --> 00:23:06.630 have done, and I normally do. Yeah, didn't in this case, 322 00:23:07.390 --> 00:23:10.309 but I do want to make sure people listening. No, I think that 323 00:23:10.589 --> 00:23:15.180 was a shortcoming in this interaction. I would that's something that should have been 324 00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:18.779 mentioned, that there were other sources of help. Yeah, because she's in 325 00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:23.180 and unplanned pregnancy. Yeah, so all those other resources that we have really 326 00:23:23.299 --> 00:23:26.849 could become very important. Yeah, absolutely. Well, one of the things 327 00:23:26.970 --> 00:23:30.529 is to that I think we have to be careful not to do, is 328 00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:36.289 just flood their minds with so many things. Yeah, and I would see 329 00:23:36.529 --> 00:23:41.170 those resources, I would be talking about those resources, but I would try 330 00:23:41.210 --> 00:23:42.880 to keep it around. That's why I ask, when I'm talking to an 331 00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:47.160 abortion minded mom or dad at the abortions interness, why I ask what is 332 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:51.400 that? One thing right, it's the reason why you came here and I 333 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:55.039 want to focus on that. Thing and talk around that thing as a subject 334 00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:57.750 and not talk about everything else under the sun, because I can flood their 335 00:23:57.789 --> 00:24:00.670 minds. Again, we're talking about women that are full of fear, and 336 00:24:00.789 --> 00:24:06.029 especially a woman who's a victim of rape. Right she's got a lot of 337 00:24:06.109 --> 00:24:08.349 stuff going on her mind. She's got a lot of things that she's struggling 338 00:24:08.390 --> 00:24:11.700 with, a lot of emotions, a lot of just yeah, all kinds 339 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:15.819 of stuff going on. So we can't float her with too much, since 340 00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:18.180 we're talking about baby showers and we're talking about mentoring and we're talking about this 341 00:24:18.380 --> 00:24:22.500 and that. So maybe it was real it was good that I did that. 342 00:24:22.579 --> 00:24:23.849 Well, the other thing, I didn't do much of that. I 343 00:24:25.130 --> 00:24:30.130 also do a lot of when in a normal interaction. As I didn't talk 344 00:24:30.170 --> 00:24:37.250 much about baby development because exactly the point you're making. That's not probably what's 345 00:24:37.529 --> 00:24:41.880 going to be what sways her heart right now. It I mentioned it. 346 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:45.400 I did mention it. I think I mentioned the heartbeat and brain waves and 347 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:51.359 I think that's all I mentioned because I wanted to humanize the child. That 348 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.509 is very important, you know, rape victim, that that child be humanized. 349 00:24:56.230 --> 00:25:00.950 But but again, I I didn't want that to be the main focus, 350 00:25:02.390 --> 00:25:07.380 because she's struggling with a devastating violent act against her and I wanted to 351 00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:12.019 use that to bring her to the idea of the violent act against her child 352 00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:15.779 and the parallel. Yeah, and hope that that might make an impact on 353 00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:21.730 her. Yeah, another thing that help me, help me talk through this, 354 00:25:22.009 --> 00:25:25.490 okay, because I think this is good, but also think it can 355 00:25:25.529 --> 00:25:30.329 be just a lot of information, and that's pointing to the stats, right, 356 00:25:30.410 --> 00:25:33.849 the statistics. So you pointed to that statistic, which we've talked about 357 00:25:33.849 --> 00:25:40.480 before, that seventy percent of the women that are victims of rape, they 358 00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.920 get pregnant, choose to keep their child. Right, seventy eight percent of 359 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.279 those who do that don't regret it. No, no, none of them 360 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.430 are. Okay, not, none regret. When you're thirty percent, who 361 00:25:52.670 --> 00:25:56.309 I'm getting lost in the and the thirty percent who choose abortion, most of 362 00:25:56.349 --> 00:26:00.190 them regret. At the overwhelming majority regret it. Okay, and it and 363 00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:04.859 I totally get your point and I think it's a very valid thing to consider. 364 00:26:04.900 --> 00:26:11.259 Yeah, being careful about too many statistics. I do often quote that 365 00:26:11.420 --> 00:26:15.099 one because it's so counterintuitive. Yeah, it's not what they're thinking. And 366 00:26:15.420 --> 00:26:22.009 she she actually was genuinely surprised when she heard that when. So she was 367 00:26:22.089 --> 00:26:25.410 play acting, but I don't think she'd ever heard that statistic before and she 368 00:26:25.450 --> 00:26:29.650 said, Oh wow, and that was my response when I read that. 369 00:26:29.970 --> 00:26:34.240 That research. So, but I do think, yeah, you start quoting 370 00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:40.200 statistics, you start to sound like a professor instead of a counselor who is 371 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:44.359 yeah, you know, identifying with with them. Is that? That's kind 372 00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:45.559 of your that's kind of what I'm thinking. But, like I said, 373 00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:48.150 I said help me with this, because I'm not exactly sure, because I 374 00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:52.710 think statistics do help. I think you can. You can, I guess, 375 00:26:52.829 --> 00:26:56.589 generalize. You can say most women who get pregnant as a result of 376 00:26:56.630 --> 00:27:00.109 rape don't have an abortion. Did you know that? Yeah, you don't 377 00:27:00.150 --> 00:27:03.900 have to put the numbers out there, I guess. Yeah, but that's 378 00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:07.700 it. That's that's true. Most women, and of the women that do 379 00:27:07.700 --> 00:27:12.259 get pregnant as a result of rape that keep their baby. None of them 380 00:27:12.940 --> 00:27:17.650 that we've seen in statistics have regretted. That desit right. So, even 381 00:27:17.690 --> 00:27:19.609 though you've got some stuff going on in your heart, in your mind right 382 00:27:19.650 --> 00:27:23.650 now and you're thinking I might regret keeping this child, I can just tell 383 00:27:23.690 --> 00:27:29.170 you statistically you won't write. Your baby is going to be a blessing to 384 00:27:29.210 --> 00:27:32.039 you. Your baby, I'm going to use terms that are going to kind 385 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:33.680 of pull on the heartstrings. Your baby is going to be the lighted into 386 00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.920 this tunnel that you right now. Yeah, exactly. That's a great way 387 00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:42.759 of saying that. She mentioning God. Bringing God into the equation as soon 388 00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:48.309 as as possible is always, I believe, critical, where a Gospel centered, 389 00:27:48.309 --> 00:27:56.390 Yep Ministry and the any true heart change is never going to happen without 390 00:27:56.430 --> 00:28:00.059 the Gospel. Additionally, she has been through a horrific trauma, yeah, 391 00:28:00.180 --> 00:28:07.099 to her soul, her spirit, and you know, I imagine many rape 392 00:28:07.099 --> 00:28:10.940 victims do ask themselves, where was God? Yeah, I'm I'm innocent in 393 00:28:11.059 --> 00:28:15.130 this. Where was God while this was happening? So bringing God quickly into 394 00:28:15.210 --> 00:28:22.009 the discussion is really important. Yeah, and and asking if there is any 395 00:28:22.369 --> 00:28:26.130 first, does she believe, and if there's any conflict in our heart. 396 00:28:26.170 --> 00:28:30.039 And I think both of those questions are very good counseling techniques and both should 397 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:34.599 be asked any, any, anyone you counsel. Yeah, but but especially 398 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:40.039 in a rape victim, because I have encountered women who are angry at God. 399 00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:41.789 Yeah, absolutely, and it would be good to address that. Yeah, 400 00:28:42.349 --> 00:28:45.109 you know God, God, didn't want that rape to happen. This 401 00:28:45.150 --> 00:28:48.990 is the result of sin. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And course you 402 00:28:49.069 --> 00:28:55.190 did that very well in this conversation. Bringing got into the equation by asking 403 00:28:55.269 --> 00:28:57.500 the question do you believe in God? Thinks a good way to do it 404 00:28:57.740 --> 00:29:00.619 right, and then asking can I share a scripture with you? And there 405 00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:03.579 you yeah, jumped right into the scripture. That you should and I don't 406 00:29:03.579 --> 00:29:06.819 know if that was the ideal scripture. That was one of my bad things. 407 00:29:06.819 --> 00:29:07.940 I don't know if it was the ideal scripture. I had just read 408 00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:11.890 it that day. It that morning on the side. Look, I happen 409 00:29:11.930 --> 00:29:15.009 to have it, my Bible opened. That, by the way, something 410 00:29:15.210 --> 00:29:18.450 I want you to know, Daniel, because directly from you. Yeah, 411 00:29:18.569 --> 00:29:21.970 did you notice I had my Bible? Didn't notice? I no longer look 412 00:29:21.970 --> 00:29:25.119 it up on the phone. Actually, it was because a pro abortion person 413 00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:27.039 shamed me. She asked me for the reference for one of the things I 414 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:32.920 quoted and I couldn't. I couldn't remember it, and I said, well, 415 00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:33.559 let me look it up for you, and I grabbed my phone and 416 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.039 said, well, where's Your Bible? And I was so convicted by that 417 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.910 the opposition coming. So I wrote that as one of the things that are 418 00:29:41.950 --> 00:29:45.509 a good thing. Have Your Bible with you, yeah, and have have 419 00:29:45.710 --> 00:29:48.390 something underlined, have something marked in Your Bible, have a tab, yeah, 420 00:29:48.549 --> 00:29:53.460 something where you can get immediately to an appropriate verse and read it to 421 00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:56.980 her. Yeah, yeah, there is powers going to I mean you spoke 422 00:29:57.019 --> 00:30:02.700 about fear, right, he's afraid. Yeah, and you God has not 423 00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:04.339 given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound 424 00:30:04.460 --> 00:30:08.930 mind. Right, I think it's certainly inappropriate scripture. Yeah, there can 425 00:30:08.970 --> 00:30:12.970 be some others that you could bring up. Yeah, but God's word doesn't 426 00:30:12.970 --> 00:30:17.009 return void. So using the word of God is, in any of these 427 00:30:17.049 --> 00:30:21.009 situations, very powerful and important to do. Yeah, one of the things 428 00:30:21.049 --> 00:30:23.519 that I wrote as a bad though, was while in that is, somewhere 429 00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.599 in that discussion of God, she said, yeah, but God will understand. 430 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.839 Yeah, I did not jump on that. I normally do. Again, 431 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.789 there's so many things that you wish you could say and sometimes you just 432 00:30:34.950 --> 00:30:40.589 plainly can't. You'd rust enough time, but Um, but we do usually 433 00:30:40.589 --> 00:30:47.470 want to kind of dispel that idea that because you're struggling and now you're considering 434 00:30:47.549 --> 00:30:55.539 killing your child. Claiming God's forgiveness or understanding is not what, where God 435 00:30:55.579 --> 00:30:57.539 would have you go. Yeah, absolutely, and and so. But I 436 00:30:57.700 --> 00:31:07.049 didn't, and maybe I should have, but Um, but I did restate 437 00:31:07.650 --> 00:31:12.609 what what she was saying then and and I thought that's another counseling technique that, 438 00:31:12.650 --> 00:31:17.930 I think, show someone that they're being heard. So I repeated what 439 00:31:18.130 --> 00:31:23.119 she was saying about her concerns about being pregnant every day thinking about the rape, 440 00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:27.160 and then restated what she said about seeing the baby. And basically she 441 00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:30.079 would be looking in her mind, she's thinking she's going to be looking at 442 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.670 the rapist and thinking of the rapist every day. And that's where I bring 443 00:31:33.789 --> 00:31:37.190 in, and this is I think, of the all the things I've done 444 00:31:37.589 --> 00:31:45.109 with rape victims, this, I think, is the single most powerful is 445 00:31:45.269 --> 00:31:52.619 when ask them was rape a violent action against innocent victim, and of course 446 00:31:52.660 --> 00:31:56.420 they always say as and then asking them the question, what do you think 447 00:31:56.700 --> 00:32:00.900 an abortion is? Yeah, and that I guess in some ways maybe that 448 00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:07.529 could be considered too harsh. Right and maybe, but a child's life is 449 00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:12.970 on the line and it's true, and I think if you ask I always 450 00:32:13.009 --> 00:32:19.240 ask it carefully. My tone is I'm very conscious of am I saying this 451 00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:23.960 gently? Yeah, and with empathy, not only towards what happened to her 452 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:30.470 but what she is considering to doing to her own baby. Yeah. Yeah, 453 00:32:30.470 --> 00:32:35.230 I think is best we can in these situations when we get into those 454 00:32:35.309 --> 00:32:39.430 hard trees, because the reality is what would be happening if she was going 455 00:32:39.549 --> 00:32:45.019 through with an abortion would be her child suffering for the sins of his father. 456 00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:50.619 Yes, and that's unjust. Yeah, and that is abortion is act 457 00:32:50.660 --> 00:32:53.259 of violence committed against an innocent person, just like rape is. Yeah, 458 00:32:54.140 --> 00:32:58.460 bringing that truth to bear, I think is important. But to me, 459 00:32:58.569 --> 00:33:02.130 at that point of the conversation we need to do the best we can to 460 00:33:02.329 --> 00:33:06.410 help her to understand and basically, in her mind, for there to be 461 00:33:06.569 --> 00:33:10.849 no doubt that we care about her. There has to be no doubt that 462 00:33:12.009 --> 00:33:15.400 we're concerned about her, that we're not just after her keeping her baby right, 463 00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.359 and I think you know, you use some of these things that we 464 00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:24.799 talked about. Listening to her, yeah, asking questions, asking questions, 465 00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:30.950 sharing resources. Yeah, the concern for her well being and all that stuff 466 00:33:30.990 --> 00:33:32.430 can be evident in the way that we talked to her and the things that 467 00:33:32.509 --> 00:33:37.150 we offer to her. Yeah, then we can introduce, yeah, kind 468 00:33:37.190 --> 00:33:40.269 of the the hard truths that need to be introduced, right, because those 469 00:33:40.349 --> 00:33:45.140 truths do need to be introduced. Yeah, this notion, and I think 470 00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:47.779 you went after this pretty good. Then she's, you know, kind of 471 00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:51.940 had this mentality that I just want this to be all over with. Right, 472 00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:54.460 I don't really think that was a good point when you responded at some 473 00:33:54.700 --> 00:33:59.329 point, because she said that actually a couple times. She did. I 474 00:33:59.450 --> 00:34:00.930 just want this to be all over with, and that is the mentality of 475 00:34:01.450 --> 00:34:04.690 victim of rap yeah, for sure, and I can understand that. I 476 00:34:04.809 --> 00:34:07.690 just want this to be all over with. Yep. But you countered with 477 00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:10.639 well, abortion is not necessarily going to mean that this is all over with. 478 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:15.440 Hey, it might just be the beginning up the nightmares, because you'll 479 00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:20.559 you will relive trauma, but in a different way. It's a new trauma. 480 00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:24.949 You have just perpetrated trauma on another innocent human being. Yeah. So, 481 00:34:25.230 --> 00:34:30.269 and I do think that your tone and the look on your face and 482 00:34:30.389 --> 00:34:36.349 all of that stuff can convey to her a genuine compassion. Yeah, even 483 00:34:36.349 --> 00:34:40.059 when you're giving these hard trees and we need to be intentional about that. 484 00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:44.260 Right, we do. Your tone sets the tone, as you always say, 485 00:34:44.340 --> 00:34:50.699 and that is that is so true. Then I think it at that 486 00:34:50.980 --> 00:34:55.329 point I felt that she was with me enough to offer the ultrasound. Up 487 00:34:55.369 --> 00:34:59.769 to that point I wouldn't have offered the ultrasound that I don't think it would 488 00:34:59.769 --> 00:35:04.650 have been appropriate even maybe maybe you disagree, but I really felt like just 489 00:35:05.809 --> 00:35:10.360 showing her I cared, giving some of our three talk talking points, especially 490 00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:15.159 God. Then the little story that I gave at the end, and at 491 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:19.920 that point offered the ultrasound and she turned it down. Yeah, which happens, 492 00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:22.389 you know. Well, yeah, we wanted to be realistic this. 493 00:35:22.510 --> 00:35:31.150 Actually, this scenario was one I actually encountered with our last batch of sidewalk 494 00:35:31.190 --> 00:35:36.619 missionaries to two times ago, when we had sidewalk missionaries training with us, 495 00:35:36.659 --> 00:35:40.420 the national missionaries, and a woman who had been raped along with her five 496 00:35:40.460 --> 00:35:47.780 year old daughter stopped and this was honestly, very similar to the conversation that 497 00:35:47.900 --> 00:35:52.369 I had. That was truly tragic. Yeah, I mean it's all tragic, 498 00:35:52.449 --> 00:35:57.250 it's all tragic. Rape is always a tragedy and a horror. But 499 00:35:58.969 --> 00:36:04.719 but I knew that that woman, it ended. I did everything a pretty 500 00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.599 much like I did this, where there are things I could have improved on, 501 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.679 I'm sure, but she still went in right, and I think don't 502 00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:15.480 don't be surprised by that. And so Maddie and I discussed it and said, 503 00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:17.119 hey, we wanted to be real, as realistic women are going to 504 00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:22.030 go in. Yeah, they they are. Still some will change their minds, 505 00:36:22.829 --> 00:36:27.670 but when they don't, don't think it's all over. Right. And 506 00:36:27.829 --> 00:36:32.260 that final piece was praying her. Yeah, yeah, and that's an important 507 00:36:32.260 --> 00:36:37.860 piece. There comes a point when you've said everything that can be said and 508 00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:42.340 you can feel their beginning, because once they start to pull away from you 509 00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:45.380 and pull away from the conversation, yeah, you continueing to talk, you're 510 00:36:45.420 --> 00:36:49.809 only going to make them angry, right, and you don't want to get 511 00:36:49.809 --> 00:36:52.489 to that point where the just angry and then they've gotten that moment of anger, 512 00:36:52.809 --> 00:36:57.250 their justification to have an abortion right and just to walk in there. 513 00:36:57.409 --> 00:37:00.769 You've become the problem instead of the act probable problem. Yeah, right. 514 00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:05.639 One thing I did want to mention before you prayed, and I think you 515 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:09.000 did this actually a couple times through this conversation. You talked about testimonies and 516 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:12.960 you talk about how you can go on Youtube and you can see these testimonies. 517 00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.869 There's testimonies, they are out there. Testimonies are a powerful way to 518 00:37:15.989 --> 00:37:21.869 help people understand Bible says. We overcome him, Satan, by the blood 519 00:37:21.869 --> 00:37:23.710 of the lamb, in the word of our testimony, testimony. These are 520 00:37:23.750 --> 00:37:29.510 powerful. Yeah, testimonies. I mean, maybe you have a personal testimony 521 00:37:29.590 --> 00:37:31.179 in this area. I'm not very many people do. As far as being 522 00:37:31.219 --> 00:37:34.980 a victim of rape and having a child in the blessing of that child is 523 00:37:35.219 --> 00:37:38.739 you. Maybe those who are listening have that in your past. Quite likely 524 00:37:38.780 --> 00:37:43.179 you don't. Maybe you know someone that does. But even if you don't 525 00:37:43.179 --> 00:37:45.849 know someone that does, you can go on Youtube and you can watch these 526 00:37:45.929 --> 00:37:50.250 testimonies and sharing these testimonies or pointing people, like you did, Vicki, 527 00:37:50.329 --> 00:37:54.650 in this in this scenario, to those testimonies to show that, yes, 528 00:37:54.730 --> 00:37:59.760 you're in a difficult situation, but listen, God has been faithful to other 529 00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:01.679 people and he'll be faithful to you. So I didn't want to miss that 530 00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:07.199 in any of these hard cases we should share testimonies of God's faithfulness. We 531 00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:10.440 what shot has done, yes, and other people's lives. Yeah, and 532 00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:15.750 I actually wrote it down as one of the negatives is I wish I had 533 00:38:15.829 --> 00:38:21.469 had a rape victims testimony on my phone ready to go, yeah, in 534 00:38:21.670 --> 00:38:23.789 my reminders or notes or something, so that I could just click on that 535 00:38:23.909 --> 00:38:28.179 and show her, because she's going to go in at this point. You 536 00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:30.460 know, often at this point of your discussion, you kind of have a 537 00:38:30.579 --> 00:38:34.539 sense. is she going to go in or she going to let me take 538 00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:39.219 her over to the ultrasound right, and so you do want to present everything 539 00:38:39.420 --> 00:38:45.730 you think you can that might encourage that choice for life. And since testimonies 540 00:38:45.769 --> 00:38:50.449 are so powerful, I really did wish I had one of those. I 541 00:38:50.610 --> 00:38:53.369 don't. I should get one on my phone. Yeah, because this I 542 00:38:53.570 --> 00:38:57.880 counter this often enough that it would be a valuable thing to have right at 543 00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:00.559 my fingertip. Yeah, you know, I would say be great to have 544 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:05.360 it your fingertips. My guess would be she's probably not going to stand there 545 00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:07.719 and watch. She might not, unless it is short line. Something would 546 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:10.429 have to be pretty short, right. If you can just have it on 547 00:39:10.469 --> 00:39:14.989 the top of your mind, tip of your tongue to share that testimony, 548 00:39:15.070 --> 00:39:19.389 that could be helpful. Yeah, but again, like you mentioned, kind 549 00:39:19.429 --> 00:39:22.150 of circle back around with the whole prey thing. You prayed with her and 550 00:39:22.630 --> 00:39:24.380 really, what we we do often, as you pray at her, got 551 00:39:24.539 --> 00:39:30.659 to help pray, that you help her to see right that this is not 552 00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:32.340 the right thing to do, that we can help her, and that sort 553 00:39:32.380 --> 00:39:35.579 of thing. So you're praying at her, you're obviously you're praying, you're 554 00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:37.340 appealing to God, right, because he's the one that has to open her 555 00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:40.489 heart and convince her to do the right thing. Yeah, but you are 556 00:39:42.809 --> 00:39:47.289 supporting everything that you just said previously in prayer, right, you're petitioning the 557 00:39:47.409 --> 00:39:52.369 Lord. Yeah, and I definitely was thinking of that, kind of restating 558 00:39:52.409 --> 00:39:57.119 all the main points I had made when I was speaking to her, restate 559 00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.880 them in the prayer. So that that's that's as she's entering that abortion center, 560 00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:04.480 those are the last things on our mind. Yeah. So, all 561 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.829 in all, went pretty well. Yeah, Jee's life, at least not. 562 00:40:07.989 --> 00:40:10.230 We don't know. Maybe she did. Yeah. Well, in all 563 00:40:10.309 --> 00:40:15.070 of these things, we are planting seats and we are watering seats. I 564 00:40:15.110 --> 00:40:19.829 would encourage you guys with that. These situations are very difficult and when you've 565 00:40:19.829 --> 00:40:22.260 got a woman who's a victim of rape or you've got a woman who's dealing 566 00:40:22.300 --> 00:40:28.500 with what ever many of these hard cases might be. It is tough and 567 00:40:28.579 --> 00:40:31.179 we can really beat ourselves up, yes, about what we didn't say. 568 00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:35.380 Well, we did say what. We could have said better. And listen, 569 00:40:35.420 --> 00:40:37.530 you can always say things better, you can always say more, you 570 00:40:37.570 --> 00:40:44.409 can always cover different subjects. You can. There's always these questions of what 571 00:40:44.530 --> 00:40:46.050 if I would have said this, what if I'd have said that? You 572 00:40:46.329 --> 00:40:51.199 just got to trust God. You just gotta think. I've said before, 573 00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:53.679 if I could give you one principle of dealing with hard cases, in one 574 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:58.440 principle alone, dealing with any of these cases, hard cases, easy cases, 575 00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:01.480 whatever, that single principle would be, walk with God. Yeah, 576 00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:05.710 walk with God. We can give you general principles. We try to do 577 00:41:05.869 --> 00:41:08.429 that. We try to make ourselves like the example of what not to do 578 00:41:08.590 --> 00:41:12.750 and what to do in some sense, but at the end of the day 579 00:41:13.230 --> 00:41:15.550 you've got to be walking with the Lord. But it's the Holy Spirit knows 580 00:41:15.590 --> 00:41:17.619 a whole lot more than we ever will. Yeah, even though we've been 581 00:41:17.659 --> 00:41:22.460 doing this for a while, the Holy Spirit e's eternal. He knows the 582 00:41:22.500 --> 00:41:25.380 hearts of men and women. He knows what needs to be said in the 583 00:41:25.420 --> 00:41:30.179 moment. So walk with him. Be I mean that scripture you shared. 584 00:41:30.219 --> 00:41:32.369 Maybe that was exactly what she needed to hear. Of that was a real 585 00:41:32.449 --> 00:41:37.849 situation in that moment. Maybe she was just reading that scripture this morning herself. 586 00:41:37.170 --> 00:41:40.409 You never know. So would encourage you guys. Yeah, listen to 587 00:41:40.449 --> 00:41:44.730 these podcasts and take all the information in, but, most importantly, walk 588 00:41:44.849 --> 00:41:49.679 with the Lord in those moments when you're encountering these hard situations. Be Praying 589 00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:52.199 under your breath to the Lord, like Lord honey, wisdom in this situation. 590 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.599 He can of it. Yeah, so with that, I think we 591 00:41:55.880 --> 00:42:00.400 are done with this episode. Yeah, feel good about that. Yeah, 592 00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:04.150 I feel pretty good about it. I get an a, I think right. 593 00:42:04.670 --> 00:42:07.269 A for this would be be plose. Okay, yeah, and now 594 00:42:07.590 --> 00:42:12.630 you deep great. So, guys, we do appreciate you guys listening and, 595 00:42:13.590 --> 00:42:15.739 as we started out, as we always say, we appreciate you guys 596 00:42:15.860 --> 00:42:19.980 sharing this podcast, reaching out to us. You can reach me, Daniel 597 00:42:20.059 --> 00:42:22.860 at Love Life Dot Org. You can reach her, Vicky at Love Life 598 00:42:22.900 --> 00:42:25.500 Dot Org. If you have questions, comments, things like that. We'd 599 00:42:25.500 --> 00:42:30.449 certainly love to answer those if we're able. And again, please share this 600 00:42:30.530 --> 00:42:35.050 podcast with people don't neglect us in the reviews. Give us some good reviews. 601 00:42:35.090 --> 00:42:37.409 We appreciate that. And until next time, God, bless God, 602 00:42:37.449 --> 00:42:50.920 bless y'all. Our love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. 603 00:42:53.000 --> 00:43:02.710 I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious in some you