Victim of Rape - Mock Session

WEBVTT100:00:02.799 --> 00:00:09.070I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me. Welcome200:00:09.109 --> 00:00:12.550to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. This episode we're going to play for300:00:12.630 --> 00:00:17.070you and then critique a video thatwe recorded of a mock session between Vicky400:00:17.149 --> 00:00:19.989and one of our counselors. Theypretended to be a victim of rape.500:00:20.269 --> 00:00:23.059We believe this will be helpful andequipping to you, so stay tuned.600:00:25.899 --> 00:00:38.530I felt show passish touch your welcometo the Gospel centered pro life podcast.700:00:38.649 --> 00:00:43.890Appreciate you guys joining us and,as always, appreciate you guys sharing this800:00:44.009 --> 00:00:50.000podcast on social media or whatever outletsthat you have. Email, maybe even900:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.200snail mail. Write someone to lether and tell them. Does anyone do1000:00:53.280 --> 00:00:56.840that anymore? They don't come.I'm just wasting my breath on that one,1100:00:57.320 --> 00:01:00.880but let people know as best youcan that they can listen to the1200:01:00.920 --> 00:01:03.909Gospel centered pro life podcast. Leaveus a review. We would love to1300:01:03.989 --> 00:01:08.870hear what you think about this podcast. We'd also love to hear some suggestions1400:01:08.909 --> 00:01:12.829that you have of things that wecan cover. We why we do a1500:01:12.870 --> 00:01:15.549lot of the episodes that we do. We have people send us an email,1600:01:17.030 --> 00:01:19.859say something on social media or justin a conversation. Hey, have1700:01:19.939 --> 00:01:23.659you guys covered this? And ifwe haven't, we do. Yep,1800:01:23.939 --> 00:01:27.260and sometimes we cover subjects a coupleof times from different angles. Right,1900:01:27.340 --> 00:01:32.540I'm before this podcast we're going tocover a subject that we hear a lot,2000:01:32.579 --> 00:01:37.049at least get a lot of peoplesuggesting that we do podcast episodes about2100:01:37.049 --> 00:01:38.730this, and it's something that youdeal with, or could deal with,2200:01:38.930 --> 00:01:42.329on a regular basis if you're ministerin front of an abortion center. Yeah,2300:01:42.769 --> 00:01:46.450so we cover subjects from different anglesand this subject is going to be2400:01:46.489 --> 00:01:51.159dealing with women who are victims ofrape. We covered, I guess,2500:01:51.319 --> 00:01:55.599in some months ago and one ofour hard cases, because we went through2600:01:55.680 --> 00:01:57.680how to deal with these different hardcases that you face, and rape is2700:01:57.840 --> 00:02:01.349probably the most common hardcase that you'llface at the abortion center. As far2800:02:01.390 --> 00:02:06.230as an objection to or an excuse. I don't want to I don't like2900:02:06.269 --> 00:02:07.509to use the word excuse, butthat's the best where I can think of3000:02:07.629 --> 00:02:14.189right now for women going into theabortion center. That's like the hard cases3100:02:14.270 --> 00:02:15.580that kind of stifle us and makeus like, Oh, what do I3200:02:15.659 --> 00:02:21.180say in this? That's the mostcommon problem. So we did a case3300:02:21.259 --> 00:02:24.300study of a young lady that weencountered actually at little tribe abortion center and3400:02:24.300 --> 00:02:28.740we kind of talk through she wasa victim of rape. It didn't really3500:02:28.819 --> 00:02:31.610come out until later on, aswe built a relationship with her, that3600:02:31.810 --> 00:02:36.210she was a victim of rape.So it's a different dynamic there. In3700:02:36.449 --> 00:02:39.370this episode we're actually going to likelike we did a couple of weeks ago3800:02:39.409 --> 00:02:45.120we played for you a mock sessionof Vicky and Maddie pretending maddie was the3900:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.039abortion mind of Mom Vicky was thecounselor and, if you guys remember,4000:02:49.039 --> 00:02:52.360we just kind of played that,we critiqued it, we said what were4100:02:52.400 --> 00:02:53.400some of the good things? Weresome of the things that could have been4200:02:53.400 --> 00:02:58.000done better? So we're going todo that in this episode. We're going4300:02:58.039 --> 00:03:01.469to play for you, it's abouteight minutes or so of a mock session.4400:03:01.990 --> 00:03:06.669So I think just that in itselfwould be really equipping for you guys.4500:03:07.469 --> 00:03:09.030But then afterwards we're going to say, Hey, what are some of4600:03:09.069 --> 00:03:14.180the things that we're done right?What are some of the things that Vicky4700:03:14.539 --> 00:03:17.219royally screwed up on? And let'smake fun of her for those things,4800:03:17.419 --> 00:03:21.580of course. Yeah, and we'regoing to have fun now we're going to4900:03:21.659 --> 00:03:23.460train you. Guess that's the wholepoint of all of this stuff. Yeah,5000:03:23.699 --> 00:03:28.810and also want to note that,just like the other mock session that5100:03:28.930 --> 00:03:32.050we did, this one was kindof done off the cuff, on the5200:03:32.129 --> 00:03:37.090fly and sort of on purpose.Right. We could not practice, we5300:03:37.210 --> 00:03:40.090did not have a script. Onpurpose. Yeah, and so the dynamic5400:03:40.409 --> 00:03:45.520is likely going to be a littledifferent because it's not a real mock session,5500:03:45.560 --> 00:03:46.960or it's not a real it's areal mock session, it's not a5600:03:47.080 --> 00:03:51.840real recorded session. So the flowwould likely go a little different, the5700:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.550interaction would likely be a little different, the objections could be a little different.5800:03:55.590 --> 00:03:59.270But this is just kind of ageneral framework or some of the things5900:03:59.349 --> 00:04:04.629you might say, some of theways that you might react or shouldn't react6000:04:06.270 --> 00:04:10.219to a woman. And so we'llplay this for you, guys. We'll6100:04:10.300 --> 00:04:14.740talk about it, it'll be equipping, it'll be encouraging and hopefully you'll be6200:04:14.819 --> 00:04:18.259blessed and Jesus will be glorified.Oh, hey, there, hey there,6300:04:18.500 --> 00:04:21.579my name is Vickie. Can CanI talk with you just just for6400:04:21.699 --> 00:04:26.769a moment? Its in, Iknow. Are you on the way into6500:04:26.810 --> 00:04:30.370the women's center? Yeah, well, let me give you this. My6600:04:30.449 --> 00:04:34.930Name and my number is on theback here and and we're here offering hope6700:04:34.970 --> 00:04:40.040and help. I just want toknow what what's like, the big thing6800:04:40.160 --> 00:04:45.399that's sending you into this place.Well, I was raped. So I6900:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.040oh, I am so sorry.Is the the man who did this?7000:04:50.399 --> 00:04:55.310Is He behind bars? No,no, he's not. So they haven't7100:04:55.310 --> 00:04:59.310caught him yet. Or what?It's a family member. It's a family7200:04:59.389 --> 00:05:01.949member. Good grief. So Iwant you to know right off hand if7300:05:01.990 --> 00:05:09.420if your family is hesitant to pursueprosecution, and that is not unusual,7400:05:09.459 --> 00:05:13.060if that families feel that way.But remember you might not be the last7500:05:13.100 --> 00:05:16.420one that he does that too,and it is an act of kindness to7600:05:16.620 --> 00:05:21.730others to to bring that man tojustice. God is a god of Justice7700:05:21.850 --> 00:05:26.610and he would not have any ofUS turn the other cheek to that kind7800:05:26.649 --> 00:05:30.129of a violation. But there aregroups here in Charlotte that could help you.7900:05:30.329 --> 00:05:36.160Like have you contacted any of thedomestic violent organizations? No, I8000:05:36.279 --> 00:05:40.759haven't. Kind of scared to dothat. I'm sure you are, but8100:05:41.040 --> 00:05:43.839but let me just let you knowthat on the back here. I think8200:05:43.879 --> 00:05:47.120we have that resource and if wedon't, well, they're sex trafficking.8300:05:47.240 --> 00:05:50.790If we don't, I can getyou the resource for domestic violence and there's8400:05:50.829 --> 00:05:57.430there's in the Charlotte area there's alsoa group that helps, helps to find8500:05:57.470 --> 00:06:01.389a safe place for you and evencan help you to provide to provide legal8600:06:01.470 --> 00:06:04.459counsel to help you. So Iwant to just start with that. Do8700:06:04.579 --> 00:06:08.939you know how far along you are? No, I don't. You don't8800:06:08.980 --> 00:06:12.459know. Well, do you knowthat if you've missed your period? I8900:06:12.500 --> 00:06:15.660assume you have. Right, you'vemissed your period. You know that your9000:06:15.019 --> 00:06:21.730baby's heart is already beating, alreadyas really as seventeen days and as early9100:06:21.769 --> 00:06:28.290as six weeks, your little babyalready has detectable brain waves. So I9200:06:28.490 --> 00:06:31.089just want you to know it.Do you believe in God? Yeah,9300:06:31.089 --> 00:06:36.120yeah, and so has that causedany conflict thinking about I know this is9400:06:36.319 --> 00:06:42.680terrible, terrible situation, but whatis your heart tell you? God would9500:06:42.680 --> 00:06:46.199have you do? Well, Ijust every day I'm pregnant I'm going to9600:06:46.240 --> 00:06:48.470be thinking about this trauma and Ithink God understands that and he has to9700:06:48.550 --> 00:06:53.670understand the like. That's incredibly hardon me and yeah, I just I9800:06:53.790 --> 00:06:56.470just want to be done with it. Yeah, you know, I hear9900:06:56.550 --> 00:07:00.790you, I get it. Iunderstand that you don't want to remember that10000:07:00.029 --> 00:07:05.019trauma at all and every day ofyour pregnancy. You're telling me that's what10100:07:05.220 --> 00:07:09.620your focus will be. But youknow what, let me let me read10200:07:09.620 --> 00:07:13.259you a verse before we go anyfurther on. You said you believe in10300:07:13.339 --> 00:07:15.209God. I just want to readyou this first. It's from from Second10400:07:15.209 --> 00:07:19.370Timothy Six. For this reason Iremind you to fan into flame the gift10500:07:19.410 --> 00:07:23.129of God, which is you,through the lane on of my hands,10600:07:23.529 --> 00:07:28.649for the spirit of God does notmake us timid, but gives us power,10700:07:29.449 --> 00:07:31.959love and selfdiscipline. In other words, we don't have a spirit of10800:07:32.160 --> 00:07:35.959fear before God. And I knowthat there's this fear that this is what's10900:07:35.959 --> 00:07:42.639going to be in your heart.But I've studied research that looks at rape,11000:07:43.399 --> 00:07:48.670and do you know that most ofthe women who keep their baby,11100:07:49.189 --> 00:07:53.149which is most victims of rape?I don't know if you know that,11200:07:53.310 --> 00:08:00.019but seventy percent of rape victims keeptheir child, and of the thirty percent11300:08:00.540 --> 00:08:05.220who go and have an abortion,seventy eight percent of them regret it.11400:08:05.699 --> 00:08:11.420But of the seventy percent that keeptheir baby, how many do you think11500:08:11.019 --> 00:08:18.490regret keeping that child? I couldn'timagine. I mean maybe once they had11600:08:18.529 --> 00:08:22.449it. I just feel like everyday that I looked at my child that11700:08:22.569 --> 00:08:24.970it would be just like remembering thetrauma that everything that happened as you're as11800:08:26.009 --> 00:08:31.879you're looking at that baby. Asa matter of fact, what overwhelmingly the11900:08:31.039 --> 00:08:37.320videos on Youtube, of which thereare many, of rape victims, the12000:08:37.559 --> 00:08:46.190only positive experience or memory that comesout of that rape, horrific act is12100:08:46.309 --> 00:08:52.389the birth and the beauty of thatprecious life. So, even though I12200:08:52.710 --> 00:08:56.779understand totally where you're coming from,it it yeah, I know that it's12300:08:56.899 --> 00:09:03.139horrible, but think about this,the act of rape, that was a12400:09:03.779 --> 00:09:09.940violent act against an innocent human being, right, you, right, right.12500:09:11.210 --> 00:09:16.529What do you think abortion is?It's a violent act against an innocent12600:09:16.570 --> 00:09:22.730victim, that that child didn't causethe rape or any of your situation.12700:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.840The child is innocent and the child, by all human beings, is made12800:09:30.279 --> 00:09:33.879in the image of God. Thechild is not the rapist. The child12900:09:35.000 --> 00:09:41.950shares your DNA and and God hascreated that life. God is the one13000:09:41.990 --> 00:09:46.789that creates all life. So I'mnot saying God wanted the rate. That13100:09:46.070 --> 00:09:50.549is clear. That that is sin, but in any other area of your13200:09:50.710 --> 00:09:56.139life, would you deal with sin? And I know it's not your own13300:09:56.259 --> 00:10:03.980sin, but would you deal withsin by doing something that grieves and is13400:10:03.659 --> 00:10:09.250rebelling against God and really a greatersin the murder of an innocent child?13500:10:09.769 --> 00:10:16.409I don't know, I just Isee what you're saying and it's it is13600:10:16.529 --> 00:10:20.049convicting, but it's just like Ijust wanted all to be over, like13700:10:20.169 --> 00:10:24.879it's right. It's so much tothink about, so much hurt and scary.13800:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.679Yeah, yeah, and I understandone in it all over, but13900:10:26.960 --> 00:10:33.080I just would urge you to lookat some of those testimonies of rape victims14000:10:33.799 --> 00:10:37.190that you can find on the Internet, and I can send you even the14100:10:37.269 --> 00:10:41.110link to the study I'm talking about, because it's not all over. When14200:10:41.149 --> 00:10:48.269the baby is killed, then there'sthis new trauma their face. Can I14300:10:48.350 --> 00:10:50.980encourage you to come and look atyour baby on a mobile ultrasound unit,14400:10:52.019 --> 00:10:54.620or even I there's a pregnancy resourcecenter right near here. I would love14500:10:54.700 --> 00:10:58.779to just bring you over there andlet you look at your baby before you14600:10:58.940 --> 00:11:03.370make this decision. I think,I think I just need to think about14700:11:03.370 --> 00:11:07.649it for a while. Andy Smertime. Okay, but I'll keep this,14800:11:07.970 --> 00:11:11.009can you? I would like youto keep that in. My Name14900:11:11.049 --> 00:11:13.090and number is on the back hereand you can call me at any time.15000:11:13.570 --> 00:11:18.129But would it be okay if Ipray give you before before you go15100:11:18.330 --> 00:11:20.960in there? For sure. Dearfather, Lord, I'm sorry, what15200:11:22.120 --> 00:11:26.360was your name again? Sarah,Sarah. Dear father, Lord, I15300:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.279pray for Sarah. I know thatthis is horrific what she's going through,15400:11:30.360 --> 00:11:35.509and I see the sorrow and thedespair and what happened to her was terrible,15500:11:35.549 --> 00:11:39.389a violent act against an innocent humanbeing. But, Lord, I15600:11:39.750 --> 00:11:45.590pray convict Sarah, that the lastthing she wants to do is to go15700:11:45.870 --> 00:11:48.820on and do a violent act againsther baby. So I pray, like15800:11:48.980 --> 00:11:52.539in that verse I read, GiveHer a spirit of strength, not of15900:11:52.779 --> 00:11:58.100fear. Give her not a spiritof timidity, but of trust and face16000:11:58.379 --> 00:12:03.090than you and we will help her, father, help convict her heart that16100:12:03.330 --> 00:12:05.970she is not alone, we willwalk alongside her through this, we will16200:12:05.970 --> 00:12:09.889help link her with the resources thatcan help her and we will be there16300:12:09.970 --> 00:12:15.720for her. But, most importantly, father, you are always there and16400:12:15.960 --> 00:12:20.559you promise you are a refuge anda strength and I pray that Sarah puts16500:12:20.639 --> 00:12:26.720her trust and her faith in that, not in the evil act of abortion,16600:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.870which I know she doesn't really wantto do. We are praying in16700:12:30.950 --> 00:12:35.950the name of Jesus Christ. Arefor Amen. Sarah. I'm praying for16800:12:37.110 --> 00:12:46.940you. I appreciate thank you.By okay, so we hoop. That16900:12:46.059 --> 00:12:50.419was a blessing. And is therelike, do you have the video,17000:12:50.460 --> 00:12:54.899because that was that was originally avideo, right the gout. You have17100:12:54.019 --> 00:12:58.850that posted somewhere now? Okay,not yet. All right, so we17200:13:00.009 --> 00:13:03.649won't have that available for you guysfor video, but you can go back17300:13:03.690 --> 00:13:07.889and listen to that audio is muchas you want to. Yeah, but17400:13:07.970 --> 00:13:11.129let's talk about some of the thingsthat were that were done in that video.17500:13:11.210 --> 00:13:15.279As you're right, a. Didyou critique yourself? Okay, well,17600:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.639I have two lists. I havewhat were the good things that the17700:13:18.720 --> 00:13:24.200counselor me did and what were thebad things? And well, there are17800:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.990double good things, good things,double the good things and then the battery17900:13:28.309 --> 00:13:31.230bad thing might be the opposite onyour list. Okay, I don't know.18000:13:31.389 --> 00:13:35.629But so so maybe let's start justback and forth with with kind of18100:13:35.669 --> 00:13:39.629what we're some of the good things. So the first thing that and and18200:13:39.710 --> 00:13:43.299I kind of just went in orderof how the video preceded, which I18300:13:43.379 --> 00:13:48.100think is what you did too.So the I gave the information to her18400:13:48.139 --> 00:13:52.179right away. I got the literaturein her hand right away. Was the18500:13:52.259 --> 00:13:54.460first thing I did. Hey,my name is Vicky, you're heading to18600:13:54.500 --> 00:13:58.649the abortion center, asked the questionand then got the information in her hand.18700:13:58.769 --> 00:14:03.490Yeah, so that's that's key.That's in and all of our cases.18800:14:03.450 --> 00:14:07.850That's really what we would advise youmake sure you do immediately get the18900:14:07.929 --> 00:14:13.600information in their hands right absolutely.Yeah. Yeah, because you might lose19000:14:13.639 --> 00:14:18.559them in any point in any ofthese conversations that we have. For whatever19100:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.679reason, you might lose her attentioncompletely. A pro abortion person might come19200:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.789along and butt into the situation.At least you get something into her hand19300:14:28.110 --> 00:14:31.470right whatever reason, she might getjust kind of lured into the abortion sent19400:14:31.590 --> 00:14:35.669yeah, so you want to getthat information on their hand right away.19500:14:35.909 --> 00:14:39.779And that made me think of somethingelse when you said that you kind of19600:14:39.980 --> 00:14:43.820want to let your conversation proceed inorder of priority because of that very dynamic,19700:14:45.059 --> 00:14:48.299you could lose her at any minute. So get the important things out19800:14:48.460 --> 00:14:52.370pretty much as soon as you can, if possible. So the second thing19900:14:52.610 --> 00:14:58.769that happened was I asked her themajor obstacles. Yeah, which is actually20000:15:00.169 --> 00:15:03.370something that you do, and whenyou told me that you did that,20100:15:03.490 --> 00:15:05.289I thought you know that. However, you phrased it that you know,20200:15:05.409 --> 00:15:07.759what's the one thing? I thinkyou say, what's the one thing that20300:15:07.879 --> 00:15:13.480if I could remove that you wouldyou would not be considering an abortion.20400:15:13.480 --> 00:15:18.120I think that's a really, reallygood thing to start with. Yeah,20500:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.269so, in other words, askthe major obstacle that that's really important.20600:15:22.590 --> 00:15:26.909You piggyback off of that, Right. Yeah, so, I mean one20700:15:26.950 --> 00:15:30.669of the things I'll say is I'llword it differently every time. I'll say,20800:15:30.710 --> 00:15:33.309if there's one thing, because there'slikely a bunch of stuff going on20900:15:33.389 --> 00:15:37.940in your life, but there's onething that I could promise you we could21000:15:37.940 --> 00:15:39.539take care of right now, right. What would be that one thing?21100:15:39.620 --> 00:15:43.740Because I really do want to getto what's that thing on the forefront of21200:15:43.820 --> 00:15:48.460her mind that makes her feel likeabortion is an option for her right and21300:15:48.620 --> 00:15:52.610so it could be a lot oftimes it's financial stuff, it's relational stuff21400:15:52.129 --> 00:15:56.210and from time to time it mightbe like in this situation right, right,21500:15:56.370 --> 00:16:00.250and that now that's not something thatobviously, we can provide a resource21600:16:00.330 --> 00:16:04.320in the same way that we provideresources that will make something go away.21700:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.879Problem that nothing's going to make thatrape go away. Yeah, exactly.21800:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.080It is a little bit different.But as soon as as soon as she21900:16:11.320 --> 00:16:18.710said that, what I hoped thatI conveyed, I think I did immediately,22000:16:18.950 --> 00:16:23.110was to express compassion, sorrow.Yeah, show interest, ask about22100:16:23.269 --> 00:16:27.350is is their justice? Yeah,is this guy behind bar orse? Yeah,22200:16:27.990 --> 00:16:32.669I mean, I would say,the most important thing in this situation,22300:16:32.750 --> 00:16:36.340in any other of the hard cases, any of the situations just in22400:16:36.500 --> 00:16:40.740general, right, but especially inthese hard cases, identifying with their pain.22500:16:41.100 --> 00:16:45.220Yes, not marginalizing their pain.Like I break down that word compassion.22600:16:45.220 --> 00:16:48.730Yeah, what it means is itmeans with calm, is with and22700:16:48.809 --> 00:16:52.450passion, is actually suffering. Right. So you want to suffer with them,22800:16:52.850 --> 00:16:56.049in their pain, feel their pain. It's real to them, especially22900:16:56.049 --> 00:17:00.610in this situation where she's been violated. Yeah, we want identify with that.23000:17:00.970 --> 00:17:04.599Now, I do say this,and and how do I say this23100:17:04.759 --> 00:17:08.839without so we don't want to marginalizepeople's pain and we don't want to accuse23200:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.880them of lying. Okay, soright, off the bad. We don't23300:17:11.880 --> 00:17:17.269want to say all you're lying.Only one percent of all abortions are result23400:17:17.349 --> 00:17:21.029of rape or whatever. Yeah,but do keep in the back of your23500:17:21.069 --> 00:17:23.950mind. This is why I'll askcertain questions typically in those situations to really23600:17:23.990 --> 00:17:26.950get to is that the case?Is She really a victim of rape,23700:17:26.950 --> 00:17:32.019or is she just putting this outthere to make me feel bad for talking23800:17:32.099 --> 00:17:33.619to her? Because sometimes people willdo that. Yeah, yeah, make23900:17:33.660 --> 00:17:37.140you. They want to take someof the guilt that they're feeling and put24000:17:37.140 --> 00:17:38.980it back on you, and sothey think if, well, I'm a24100:17:38.980 --> 00:17:42.019victim of rape, he'll feel badfor telling me not to have the abortion.24200:17:42.059 --> 00:17:45.089Yeah, so you can keep thatin the back of your mind,24300:17:45.089 --> 00:17:48.970that sometimes they could be lying toyou. But even if that's the case,24400:17:48.170 --> 00:17:51.809you don't want to say, HAH, you're lying, there's no way,24500:17:52.089 --> 00:17:55.529and then give them statistics to provethat they're lying. You do want24600:17:55.569 --> 00:17:59.880identify with their pain, but youdo also want to ask questions. It24700:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.400provoke as much as you can.You're not going to rip open a wound,24800:18:03.799 --> 00:18:06.720you don't want to try to dothat, but as much as you24900:18:06.799 --> 00:18:11.480can to get them they get themtalking and to discern and and you know,25000:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.269I think actually, and this waskind of by accident, but but25100:18:15.589 --> 00:18:21.029the questions I did ask about thethe rape best, yeah, and whether25200:18:21.069 --> 00:18:23.789he was behind bars and everything.Ultimately she says it was a family member.25300:18:25.509 --> 00:18:29.259Obviously I knew she wasn't really rape. She's she's acting this out,25400:18:29.339 --> 00:18:33.819but had that been an actual momthose responsive would have tipped me off.25500:18:33.900 --> 00:18:37.220I think that this was honestly arape, that that this was sincerely a25600:18:37.299 --> 00:18:41.930rape. And and you're right thatoften by asking questions it will reveal whether25700:18:42.490 --> 00:18:48.210it is honestly an actual rape.Yeah, yeah, now I do want25800:18:48.210 --> 00:18:52.970to say that you can come acrossin asking that question, because the way25900:18:53.049 --> 00:18:56.440that you ask it, and Iget it's not a real life scenario,26000:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.000so it probably wouldn't have been askedlike that, but the way you ask26100:18:59.119 --> 00:19:02.079it was almost like immediate right.It's like Oh, really, well,26200:19:02.279 --> 00:19:03.880is he in Bard? He's hebehind bars? Yeah, yeah, I26300:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.559would probably wield that back a littlebit and I would identify with her pain26400:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.869a little more and I would tryto understand what she's feeling a little more,26500:19:11.990 --> 00:19:15.750yeah, than just to kind ofgo right after the justice thing.26600:19:15.789 --> 00:19:18.269Yeah, not that we shouldn't goafter that, not that we shouldn't be26700:19:18.390 --> 00:19:23.109a I mean ultimately, that that'san honest and obvious question. If you26800:19:23.269 --> 00:19:26.859were a victim of rape, right, that dude out to be behind bars.26900:19:26.980 --> 00:19:30.900Yeah, and I might actually wordit like that rather than rather than27000:19:30.940 --> 00:19:33.579trying to throw it back on her, like did you do what you need27100:19:33.619 --> 00:19:37.259to do to get that guy lockedup? Yeah, not that it's like27200:19:37.500 --> 00:19:42.690was justice served? Right, becauseif she's genuinely here's my thinking as a27300:19:42.809 --> 00:19:48.650man that believes that men are supposedto be protectors and guardians, my thinking27400:19:48.849 --> 00:19:52.039is she's a victim of rape,that dirt bag needs to be behind bars,27500:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.000right, and like, what canI do to make sure justices s27600:19:56.599 --> 00:19:59.440yeah, so I'm going to identifywith her pain, I'm going to help.27700:19:59.480 --> 00:20:02.680I'm going to help, I guessin that question. Is He behind27800:20:02.720 --> 00:20:07.190bars? What I want to provokeis in her that sense of justice exactly.27900:20:07.390 --> 00:20:10.630That's a really good point and thatwas where God was brought into the28000:20:10.750 --> 00:20:14.990discussion. God is a god ofjustice, and that's a double question for28100:20:15.109 --> 00:20:19.710her. It's pointing to her circumstances, but it's also hoping that a part28200:20:19.710 --> 00:20:23.460of her is recognizing what she's aboutto do that that baby, to that28300:20:23.579 --> 00:20:29.019baby is not justice. Yeah,to your point, also, I didn't28400:20:29.059 --> 00:20:32.420have at my fingertip. This wason my bad list. I didn't have28500:20:32.539 --> 00:20:36.890at my fingertip the name or itjust eluded me. I couldn't remember the28600:20:36.930 --> 00:20:40.329name of Safe Alliance, which,which would have been the they have a28700:20:40.450 --> 00:20:45.289safe house, they have lawyers thatwill that will help women who are victims28800:20:45.329 --> 00:20:49.000of sexual crimes for free. Ididn't have that at my fingertips. It28900:20:49.359 --> 00:20:55.160would really be a good idea if, in any wherever you are counseling,29000:20:55.400 --> 00:21:00.000if there is some sort of agroup that will help victims of rape,29100:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.079it's good to have that information.Yeah, and be able to give her29200:21:03.119 --> 00:21:06.630that phone number and everything. Itold her I would look it up,29300:21:06.710 --> 00:21:10.269but and I actually thought that itmight have been on our literature and it29400:21:10.470 --> 00:21:12.230wasn't, which surprised me. So, you know, rookie mistake. I29500:21:12.309 --> 00:21:15.230should have known that. I shouldhave known what what our literature had.29600:21:15.430 --> 00:21:19.619Yeah, but but in retrospect Iwish I had had that that I that29700:21:19.700 --> 00:21:23.140I could have told her, hey, here's an organization that will help you.29800:21:23.339 --> 00:21:26.500Yeah, and that's also being compassionate. You know, saying Hey,29900:21:26.579 --> 00:21:32.819we've got this group that could helpyou through through your struggles. So so30000:21:33.009 --> 00:21:37.930the next thing I wrote down wasthat I did offer tangible help. I30100:21:37.009 --> 00:21:41.930talked about domestic violence. But onthe bad side, I didn't really have30200:21:41.170 --> 00:21:45.970that resource right at my fingertip.Yeah, yeah, one of the things30300:21:45.009 --> 00:21:48.720you can do for those things thesedays, of course, is Google it.30400:21:49.039 --> 00:21:52.599Right, not bad. It'd bebetter if you had some kind of30500:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.480piece of literature, if you hadsome kind of number handily available, readily30600:21:56.519 --> 00:22:00.519available, right, but if youhave to google it, then Google it.30700:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.829Yeah, yeah, and help pointthem to resources. I think that30800:22:03.990 --> 00:22:07.869is an important thing that you didin that back and forth. Yes,30900:22:08.190 --> 00:22:12.150point her to resource to end,but the resources I had. That as31000:22:12.150 --> 00:22:15.460a good and a bad also,because the the resources that I pointed her31100:22:15.539 --> 00:22:22.859to were all about the rape andand helping to get just as protection,31200:22:22.259 --> 00:22:26.700legal help if necessary. For therape experts, that would counsel what to31300:22:26.700 --> 00:22:30.730do with a family member, whichis difficult for us. We're not trained31400:22:30.890 --> 00:22:36.690counselors in in you know, trainedto deal with rape victims necessarily. Yeah,31500:22:36.809 --> 00:22:40.609but but what I didn't mention,if you think back to the entire31600:22:41.250 --> 00:22:45.920interaction, were other resources. Ididn't talk about baby showers, I didn't31700:22:45.920 --> 00:22:49.720talk about a mentor, I didn'ttalk about she did not need to feel31800:22:49.720 --> 00:22:55.119alone in all of this. Yeah, normally I do. I was really31900:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.710focusing on what are the things specificto a rape victim, but I think32000:22:57.789 --> 00:23:02.630had it been a real life situation, those are things I hope I would32100:23:02.670 --> 00:23:06.630have done, and I normally do. Yeah, didn't in this case,32200:23:07.390 --> 00:23:10.309but I do want to make surepeople listening. No, I think that32300:23:10.589 --> 00:23:15.180was a shortcoming in this interaction.I would that's something that should have been32400:23:15.220 --> 00:23:18.779mentioned, that there were other sourcesof help. Yeah, because she's in32500:23:18.940 --> 00:23:23.180and unplanned pregnancy. Yeah, soall those other resources that we have really32600:23:23.299 --> 00:23:26.849could become very important. Yeah,absolutely. Well, one of the things32700:23:26.970 --> 00:23:30.529is to that I think we haveto be careful not to do, is32800:23:30.609 --> 00:23:36.289just flood their minds with so manythings. Yeah, and I would see32900:23:36.529 --> 00:23:41.170those resources, I would be talkingabout those resources, but I would try33000:23:41.210 --> 00:23:42.880to keep it around. That's whyI ask, when I'm talking to an33100:23:42.880 --> 00:23:47.160abortion minded mom or dad at theabortions interness, why I ask what is33200:23:47.200 --> 00:23:51.400that? One thing right, it'sthe reason why you came here and I33300:23:51.519 --> 00:23:55.039want to focus on that. Thingand talk around that thing as a subject33400:23:55.480 --> 00:23:57.750and not talk about everything else underthe sun, because I can flood their33500:23:57.789 --> 00:24:00.670minds. Again, we're talking aboutwomen that are full of fear, and33600:24:00.789 --> 00:24:06.029especially a woman who's a victim ofrape. Right she's got a lot of33700:24:06.109 --> 00:24:08.349stuff going on her mind. She'sgot a lot of things that she's struggling33800:24:08.390 --> 00:24:11.700with, a lot of emotions,a lot of just yeah, all kinds33900:24:11.700 --> 00:24:15.819of stuff going on. So wecan't float her with too much, since34000:24:15.900 --> 00:24:18.180we're talking about baby showers and we'retalking about mentoring and we're talking about this34100:24:18.380 --> 00:24:22.500and that. So maybe it wasreal it was good that I did that.34200:24:22.579 --> 00:24:23.849Well, the other thing, Ididn't do much of that. I34300:24:25.130 --> 00:24:30.130also do a lot of when ina normal interaction. As I didn't talk34400:24:30.170 --> 00:24:37.250much about baby development because exactly thepoint you're making. That's not probably what's34500:24:37.529 --> 00:24:41.880going to be what sways her heartright now. It I mentioned it.34600:24:42.079 --> 00:24:45.400I did mention it. I thinkI mentioned the heartbeat and brain waves and34700:24:45.440 --> 00:24:51.359I think that's all I mentioned becauseI wanted to humanize the child. That34800:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.509is very important, you know,rape victim, that that child be humanized.34900:24:56.230 --> 00:25:00.950But but again, I I didn'twant that to be the main focus,35000:25:02.390 --> 00:25:07.380because she's struggling with a devastating violentact against her and I wanted to35100:25:07.500 --> 00:25:12.019use that to bring her to theidea of the violent act against her child35200:25:12.299 --> 00:25:15.779and the parallel. Yeah, andhope that that might make an impact on35300:25:15.900 --> 00:25:21.730her. Yeah, another thing thathelp me, help me talk through this,35400:25:22.009 --> 00:25:25.490okay, because I think this isgood, but also think it can35500:25:25.529 --> 00:25:30.329be just a lot of information,and that's pointing to the stats, right,35600:25:30.410 --> 00:25:33.849the statistics. So you pointed tothat statistic, which we've talked about35700:25:33.849 --> 00:25:40.480before, that seventy percent of thewomen that are victims of rape, they35800:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.920get pregnant, choose to keep theirchild. Right, seventy eight percent of35900:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.279those who do that don't regret it. No, no, none of them36000:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.430are. Okay, not, noneregret. When you're thirty percent, who36100:25:52.670 --> 00:25:56.309I'm getting lost in the and thethirty percent who choose abortion, most of36200:25:56.349 --> 00:26:00.190them regret. At the overwhelming majorityregret it. Okay, and it and36300:26:00.430 --> 00:26:04.859I totally get your point and Ithink it's a very valid thing to consider.36400:26:04.900 --> 00:26:11.259Yeah, being careful about too manystatistics. I do often quote that36500:26:11.420 --> 00:26:15.099one because it's so counterintuitive. Yeah, it's not what they're thinking. And36600:26:15.420 --> 00:26:22.009she she actually was genuinely surprised whenshe heard that when. So she was36700:26:22.089 --> 00:26:25.410play acting, but I don't thinkshe'd ever heard that statistic before and she36800:26:25.450 --> 00:26:29.650said, Oh wow, and thatwas my response when I read that.36900:26:29.970 --> 00:26:34.240That research. So, but Ido think, yeah, you start quoting37000:26:34.359 --> 00:26:40.200statistics, you start to sound likea professor instead of a counselor who is37100:26:40.319 --> 00:26:44.359yeah, you know, identifying withwith them. Is that? That's kind37200:26:44.359 --> 00:26:45.559of your that's kind of what I'mthinking. But, like I said,37300:26:45.640 --> 00:26:48.150I said help me with this,because I'm not exactly sure, because I37400:26:48.150 --> 00:26:52.710think statistics do help. I thinkyou can. You can, I guess,37500:26:52.829 --> 00:26:56.589generalize. You can say most womenwho get pregnant as a result of37600:26:56.630 --> 00:27:00.109rape don't have an abortion. Didyou know that? Yeah, you don't37700:27:00.150 --> 00:27:03.900have to put the numbers out there, I guess. Yeah, but that's37800:27:03.940 --> 00:27:07.700it. That's that's true. Mostwomen, and of the women that do37900:27:07.700 --> 00:27:12.259get pregnant as a result of rapethat keep their baby. None of them38000:27:12.940 --> 00:27:17.650that we've seen in statistics have regretted. That desit right. So, even38100:27:17.690 --> 00:27:19.609though you've got some stuff going onin your heart, in your mind right38200:27:19.650 --> 00:27:23.650now and you're thinking I might regretkeeping this child, I can just tell38300:27:23.690 --> 00:27:29.170you statistically you won't write. Yourbaby is going to be a blessing to38400:27:29.210 --> 00:27:32.039you. Your baby, I'm goingto use terms that are going to kind38500:27:32.039 --> 00:27:33.680of pull on the heartstrings. Yourbaby is going to be the lighted into38600:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.920this tunnel that you right now.Yeah, exactly. That's a great way38700:27:37.960 --> 00:27:42.759of saying that. She mentioning God. Bringing God into the equation as soon38800:27:42.839 --> 00:27:48.309as as possible is always, Ibelieve, critical, where a Gospel centered,38900:27:48.309 --> 00:27:56.390Yep Ministry and the any true heartchange is never going to happen without39000:27:56.430 --> 00:28:00.059the Gospel. Additionally, she hasbeen through a horrific trauma, yeah,39100:28:00.180 --> 00:28:07.099to her soul, her spirit,and you know, I imagine many rape39200:28:07.099 --> 00:28:10.940victims do ask themselves, where wasGod? Yeah, I'm I'm innocent in39300:28:11.059 --> 00:28:15.130this. Where was God while thiswas happening? So bringing God quickly into39400:28:15.210 --> 00:28:22.009the discussion is really important. Yeah, and and asking if there is any39500:28:22.369 --> 00:28:26.130first, does she believe, andif there's any conflict in our heart.39600:28:26.170 --> 00:28:30.039And I think both of those questionsare very good counseling techniques and both should39700:28:30.039 --> 00:28:34.599be asked any, any, anyoneyou counsel. Yeah, but but especially39800:28:34.640 --> 00:28:40.039in a rape victim, because Ihave encountered women who are angry at God.39900:28:40.200 --> 00:28:41.789Yeah, absolutely, and it wouldbe good to address that. Yeah,40000:28:42.349 --> 00:28:45.109you know God, God, didn'twant that rape to happen. This40100:28:45.150 --> 00:28:48.990is the result of sin. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And course you40200:28:49.069 --> 00:28:55.190did that very well in this conversation. Bringing got into the equation by asking40300:28:55.269 --> 00:28:57.500the question do you believe in God? Thinks a good way to do it40400:28:57.740 --> 00:29:00.619right, and then asking can Ishare a scripture with you? And there40500:29:00.660 --> 00:29:03.579you yeah, jumped right into thescripture. That you should and I don't40600:29:03.579 --> 00:29:06.819know if that was the ideal scripture. That was one of my bad things.40700:29:06.819 --> 00:29:07.940I don't know if it was theideal scripture. I had just read40800:29:07.980 --> 00:29:11.890it that day. It that morningon the side. Look, I happen40900:29:11.930 --> 00:29:15.009to have it, my Bible opened. That, by the way, something41000:29:15.210 --> 00:29:18.450I want you to know, Daniel, because directly from you. Yeah,41100:29:18.569 --> 00:29:21.970did you notice I had my Bible? Didn't notice? I no longer look41200:29:21.970 --> 00:29:25.119it up on the phone. Actually, it was because a pro abortion person41300:29:25.279 --> 00:29:27.039shamed me. She asked me forthe reference for one of the things I41400:29:27.119 --> 00:29:32.920quoted and I couldn't. I couldn'tremember it, and I said, well,41500:29:32.920 --> 00:29:33.559let me look it up for you, and I grabbed my phone and41600:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.039said, well, where's Your Bible? And I was so convicted by that41700:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.910the opposition coming. So I wrotethat as one of the things that are41800:29:41.950 --> 00:29:45.509a good thing. Have Your Biblewith you, yeah, and have have41900:29:45.710 --> 00:29:48.390something underlined, have something marked inYour Bible, have a tab, yeah,42000:29:48.549 --> 00:29:53.460something where you can get immediately toan appropriate verse and read it to42100:29:53.579 --> 00:29:56.980her. Yeah, yeah, thereis powers going to I mean you spoke42200:29:57.019 --> 00:30:02.700about fear, right, he's afraid. Yeah, and you God has not42300:30:02.740 --> 00:30:04.339given us a spirit of fear,but of power, love and a sound42400:30:04.460 --> 00:30:08.930mind. Right, I think it'scertainly inappropriate scripture. Yeah, there can42500:30:08.970 --> 00:30:12.970be some others that you could bringup. Yeah, but God's word doesn't42600:30:12.970 --> 00:30:17.009return void. So using the wordof God is, in any of these42700:30:17.049 --> 00:30:21.009situations, very powerful and important todo. Yeah, one of the things42800:30:21.049 --> 00:30:23.519that I wrote as a bad though, was while in that is, somewhere42900:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.599in that discussion of God, shesaid, yeah, but God will understand.43000:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.839Yeah, I did not jump onthat. I normally do. Again,43100:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.789there's so many things that you wishyou could say and sometimes you just43200:30:34.950 --> 00:30:40.589plainly can't. You'd rust enough time, but Um, but we do usually43300:30:40.589 --> 00:30:47.470want to kind of dispel that ideathat because you're struggling and now you're considering43400:30:47.549 --> 00:30:55.539killing your child. Claiming God's forgivenessor understanding is not what, where God43500:30:55.579 --> 00:30:57.539would have you go. Yeah,absolutely, and and so. But I43600:30:57.700 --> 00:31:07.049didn't, and maybe I should have, but Um, but I did restate43700:31:07.650 --> 00:31:12.609what what she was saying then andand I thought that's another counseling technique that,43800:31:12.650 --> 00:31:17.930I think, show someone that they'rebeing heard. So I repeated what43900:31:18.130 --> 00:31:23.119she was saying about her concerns aboutbeing pregnant every day thinking about the rape,44000:31:23.400 --> 00:31:27.160and then restated what she said aboutseeing the baby. And basically she44100:31:27.200 --> 00:31:30.079would be looking in her mind,she's thinking she's going to be looking at44200:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.670the rapist and thinking of the rapistevery day. And that's where I bring44300:31:33.789 --> 00:31:37.190in, and this is I think, of the all the things I've done44400:31:37.589 --> 00:31:45.109with rape victims, this, Ithink, is the single most powerful is44500:31:45.269 --> 00:31:52.619when ask them was rape a violentaction against innocent victim, and of course44600:31:52.660 --> 00:31:56.420they always say as and then askingthem the question, what do you think44700:31:56.700 --> 00:32:00.900an abortion is? Yeah, andthat I guess in some ways maybe that44800:32:00.059 --> 00:32:07.529could be considered too harsh. Rightand maybe, but a child's life is44900:32:07.730 --> 00:32:12.970on the line and it's true,and I think if you ask I always45000:32:13.009 --> 00:32:19.240ask it carefully. My tone isI'm very conscious of am I saying this45100:32:20.119 --> 00:32:23.960gently? Yeah, and with empathy, not only towards what happened to her45200:32:24.720 --> 00:32:30.470but what she is considering to doingto her own baby. Yeah. Yeah,45300:32:30.470 --> 00:32:35.230I think is best we can inthese situations when we get into those45400:32:35.309 --> 00:32:39.430hard trees, because the reality iswhat would be happening if she was going45500:32:39.549 --> 00:32:45.019through with an abortion would be herchild suffering for the sins of his father.45600:32:45.059 --> 00:32:50.619Yes, and that's unjust. Yeah, and that is abortion is act45700:32:50.660 --> 00:32:53.259of violence committed against an innocent person, just like rape is. Yeah,45800:32:54.140 --> 00:32:58.460bringing that truth to bear, Ithink is important. But to me,45900:32:58.569 --> 00:33:02.130at that point of the conversation weneed to do the best we can to46000:33:02.329 --> 00:33:06.410help her to understand and basically,in her mind, for there to be46100:33:06.569 --> 00:33:10.849no doubt that we care about her. There has to be no doubt that46200:33:12.009 --> 00:33:15.400we're concerned about her, that we'renot just after her keeping her baby right,46300:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.359and I think you know, youuse some of these things that we46400:33:20.440 --> 00:33:24.799talked about. Listening to her,yeah, asking questions, asking questions,46500:33:25.079 --> 00:33:30.950sharing resources. Yeah, the concernfor her well being and all that stuff46600:33:30.990 --> 00:33:32.430can be evident in the way thatwe talked to her and the things that46700:33:32.509 --> 00:33:37.150we offer to her. Yeah,then we can introduce, yeah, kind46800:33:37.190 --> 00:33:40.269of the the hard truths that needto be introduced, right, because those46900:33:40.349 --> 00:33:45.140truths do need to be introduced.Yeah, this notion, and I think47000:33:45.180 --> 00:33:47.779you went after this pretty good.Then she's, you know, kind of47100:33:47.819 --> 00:33:51.940had this mentality that I just wantthis to be all over with. Right,47200:33:52.619 --> 00:33:54.460I don't really think that was agood point when you responded at some47300:33:54.700 --> 00:33:59.329point, because she said that actuallya couple times. She did. I47400:33:59.450 --> 00:34:00.930just want this to be all overwith, and that is the mentality of47500:34:01.450 --> 00:34:04.690victim of rap yeah, for sure, and I can understand that. I47600:34:04.809 --> 00:34:07.690just want this to be all overwith. Yep. But you countered with47700:34:07.890 --> 00:34:10.639well, abortion is not necessarily goingto mean that this is all over with.47800:34:10.800 --> 00:34:15.440Hey, it might just be thebeginning up the nightmares, because you'll47900:34:15.119 --> 00:34:20.559you will relive trauma, but ina different way. It's a new trauma.48000:34:20.599 --> 00:34:24.949You have just perpetrated trauma on anotherinnocent human being. Yeah. So,48100:34:25.230 --> 00:34:30.269and I do think that your toneand the look on your face and48200:34:30.389 --> 00:34:36.349all of that stuff can convey toher a genuine compassion. Yeah, even48300:34:36.349 --> 00:34:40.059when you're giving these hard trees andwe need to be intentional about that.48400:34:40.260 --> 00:34:44.260Right, we do. Your tonesets the tone, as you always say,48500:34:44.340 --> 00:34:50.699and that is that is so true. Then I think it at that48600:34:50.980 --> 00:34:55.329point I felt that she was withme enough to offer the ultrasound. Up48700:34:55.369 --> 00:34:59.769to that point I wouldn't have offeredthe ultrasound that I don't think it would48800:34:59.769 --> 00:35:04.650have been appropriate even maybe maybe youdisagree, but I really felt like just48900:35:05.809 --> 00:35:10.360showing her I cared, giving someof our three talk talking points, especially49000:35:10.400 --> 00:35:15.159God. Then the little story thatI gave at the end, and at49100:35:15.239 --> 00:35:19.920that point offered the ultrasound and sheturned it down. Yeah, which happens,49200:35:20.199 --> 00:35:22.389you know. Well, yeah,we wanted to be realistic this.49300:35:22.510 --> 00:35:31.150Actually, this scenario was one Iactually encountered with our last batch of sidewalk49400:35:31.190 --> 00:35:36.619missionaries to two times ago, whenwe had sidewalk missionaries training with us,49500:35:36.659 --> 00:35:40.420the national missionaries, and a womanwho had been raped along with her five49600:35:40.460 --> 00:35:47.780year old daughter stopped and this washonestly, very similar to the conversation that49700:35:47.900 --> 00:35:52.369I had. That was truly tragic. Yeah, I mean it's all tragic,49800:35:52.449 --> 00:35:57.250it's all tragic. Rape is alwaysa tragedy and a horror. But49900:35:58.969 --> 00:36:04.719but I knew that that woman,it ended. I did everything a pretty50000:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.599much like I did this, wherethere are things I could have improved on,50100:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.679I'm sure, but she still wentin right, and I think don't50200:36:10.679 --> 00:36:15.480don't be surprised by that. Andso Maddie and I discussed it and said,50300:36:15.480 --> 00:36:17.119hey, we wanted to be real, as realistic women are going to50400:36:17.159 --> 00:36:22.030go in. Yeah, they theyare. Still some will change their minds,50500:36:22.829 --> 00:36:27.670but when they don't, don't thinkit's all over. Right. And50600:36:27.829 --> 00:36:32.260that final piece was praying her.Yeah, yeah, and that's an important50700:36:32.260 --> 00:36:37.860piece. There comes a point whenyou've said everything that can be said and50800:36:37.019 --> 00:36:42.340you can feel their beginning, becauseonce they start to pull away from you50900:36:42.780 --> 00:36:45.380and pull away from the conversation,yeah, you continueing to talk, you're51000:36:45.420 --> 00:36:49.809only going to make them angry,right, and you don't want to get51100:36:49.809 --> 00:36:52.489to that point where the just angryand then they've gotten that moment of anger,51200:36:52.809 --> 00:36:57.250their justification to have an abortion rightand just to walk in there.51300:36:57.409 --> 00:37:00.769You've become the problem instead of theact probable problem. Yeah, right.51400:37:00.519 --> 00:37:05.639One thing I did want to mentionbefore you prayed, and I think you51500:37:05.760 --> 00:37:09.000did this actually a couple times throughthis conversation. You talked about testimonies and51600:37:09.119 --> 00:37:12.960you talk about how you can goon Youtube and you can see these testimonies.51700:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.869There's testimonies, they are out there. Testimonies are a powerful way to51800:37:15.989 --> 00:37:21.869help people understand Bible says. Weovercome him, Satan, by the blood51900:37:21.869 --> 00:37:23.710of the lamb, in the wordof our testimony, testimony. These are52000:37:23.750 --> 00:37:29.510powerful. Yeah, testimonies. Imean, maybe you have a personal testimony52100:37:29.590 --> 00:37:31.179in this area. I'm not verymany people do. As far as being52200:37:31.219 --> 00:37:34.980a victim of rape and having achild in the blessing of that child is52300:37:35.219 --> 00:37:38.739you. Maybe those who are listeninghave that in your past. Quite likely52400:37:38.780 --> 00:37:43.179you don't. Maybe you know someonethat does. But even if you don't52500:37:43.179 --> 00:37:45.849know someone that does, you cango on Youtube and you can watch these52600:37:45.929 --> 00:37:50.250testimonies and sharing these testimonies or pointingpeople, like you did, Vicki,52700:37:50.329 --> 00:37:54.650in this in this scenario, tothose testimonies to show that, yes,52800:37:54.730 --> 00:37:59.760you're in a difficult situation, butlisten, God has been faithful to other52900:37:59.840 --> 00:38:01.679people and he'll be faithful to you. So I didn't want to miss that53000:38:01.920 --> 00:38:07.199in any of these hard cases weshould share testimonies of God's faithfulness. We53100:38:07.320 --> 00:38:10.440what shot has done, yes,and other people's lives. Yeah, and53200:38:10.639 --> 00:38:15.750I actually wrote it down as oneof the negatives is I wish I had53300:38:15.829 --> 00:38:21.469had a rape victims testimony on myphone ready to go, yeah, in53400:38:21.670 --> 00:38:23.789my reminders or notes or something,so that I could just click on that53500:38:23.909 --> 00:38:28.179and show her, because she's goingto go in at this point. You53600:38:28.260 --> 00:38:30.460know, often at this point ofyour discussion, you kind of have a53700:38:30.579 --> 00:38:34.539sense. is she going to goin or she going to let me take53800:38:34.619 --> 00:38:39.219her over to the ultrasound right,and so you do want to present everything53900:38:39.420 --> 00:38:45.730you think you can that might encouragethat choice for life. And since testimonies54000:38:45.769 --> 00:38:50.449are so powerful, I really didwish I had one of those. I54100:38:50.610 --> 00:38:53.369don't. I should get one onmy phone. Yeah, because this I54200:38:53.570 --> 00:38:57.880counter this often enough that it wouldbe a valuable thing to have right at54300:38:57.920 --> 00:39:00.559my fingertip. Yeah, you know, I would say be great to have54400:39:00.639 --> 00:39:05.360it your fingertips. My guess wouldbe she's probably not going to stand there54500:39:05.400 --> 00:39:07.719and watch. She might not,unless it is short line. Something would54600:39:07.719 --> 00:39:10.429have to be pretty short, right. If you can just have it on54700:39:10.469 --> 00:39:14.989the top of your mind, tipof your tongue to share that testimony,54800:39:15.070 --> 00:39:19.389that could be helpful. Yeah,but again, like you mentioned, kind54900:39:19.429 --> 00:39:22.150of circle back around with the wholeprey thing. You prayed with her and55000:39:22.630 --> 00:39:24.380really, what we we do often, as you pray at her, got55100:39:24.539 --> 00:39:30.659to help pray, that you helpher to see right that this is not55200:39:30.780 --> 00:39:32.340the right thing to do, thatwe can help her, and that sort55300:39:32.380 --> 00:39:35.579of thing. So you're praying ather, you're obviously you're praying, you're55400:39:35.579 --> 00:39:37.340appealing to God, right, becausehe's the one that has to open her55500:39:37.380 --> 00:39:40.489heart and convince her to do theright thing. Yeah, but you are55600:39:42.809 --> 00:39:47.289supporting everything that you just said previouslyin prayer, right, you're petitioning the55700:39:47.409 --> 00:39:52.369Lord. Yeah, and I definitelywas thinking of that, kind of restating55800:39:52.409 --> 00:39:57.119all the main points I had madewhen I was speaking to her, restate55900:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.880them in the prayer. So thatthat's that's as she's entering that abortion center,56000:40:00.960 --> 00:40:04.480those are the last things on ourmind. Yeah. So, all56100:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.829in all, went pretty well.Yeah, Jee's life, at least not.56200:40:07.989 --> 00:40:10.230We don't know. Maybe she did. Yeah. Well, in all56300:40:10.309 --> 00:40:15.070of these things, we are plantingseats and we are watering seats. I56400:40:15.110 --> 00:40:19.829would encourage you guys with that.These situations are very difficult and when you've56500:40:19.829 --> 00:40:22.260got a woman who's a victim ofrape or you've got a woman who's dealing56600:40:22.300 --> 00:40:28.500with what ever many of these hardcases might be. It is tough and56700:40:28.579 --> 00:40:31.179we can really beat ourselves up,yes, about what we didn't say.56800:40:31.500 --> 00:40:35.380Well, we did say what.We could have said better. And listen,56900:40:35.420 --> 00:40:37.530you can always say things better,you can always say more, you57000:40:37.570 --> 00:40:44.409can always cover different subjects. Youcan. There's always these questions of what57100:40:44.530 --> 00:40:46.050if I would have said this,what if I'd have said that? You57200:40:46.329 --> 00:40:51.199just got to trust God. Youjust gotta think. I've said before,57300:40:51.719 --> 00:40:53.679if I could give you one principleof dealing with hard cases, in one57400:40:53.760 --> 00:40:58.440principle alone, dealing with any ofthese cases, hard cases, easy cases,57500:40:58.519 --> 00:41:01.480whatever, that single principle would be, walk with God. Yeah,57600:41:01.880 --> 00:41:05.710walk with God. We can giveyou general principles. We try to do57700:41:05.869 --> 00:41:08.429that. We try to make ourselveslike the example of what not to do57800:41:08.590 --> 00:41:12.750and what to do in some sense, but at the end of the day57900:41:13.230 --> 00:41:15.550you've got to be walking with theLord. But it's the Holy Spirit knows58000:41:15.590 --> 00:41:17.619a whole lot more than we everwill. Yeah, even though we've been58100:41:17.659 --> 00:41:22.460doing this for a while, theHoly Spirit e's eternal. He knows the58200:41:22.500 --> 00:41:25.380hearts of men and women. Heknows what needs to be said in the58300:41:25.420 --> 00:41:30.179moment. So walk with him.Be I mean that scripture you shared.58400:41:30.219 --> 00:41:32.369Maybe that was exactly what she neededto hear. Of that was a real58500:41:32.449 --> 00:41:37.849situation in that moment. Maybe shewas just reading that scripture this morning herself.58600:41:37.170 --> 00:41:40.409You never know. So would encourageyou guys. Yeah, listen to58700:41:40.449 --> 00:41:44.730these podcasts and take all the informationin, but, most importantly, walk58800:41:44.849 --> 00:41:49.679with the Lord in those moments whenyou're encountering these hard situations. Be Praying58900:41:49.719 --> 00:41:52.199under your breath to the Lord,like Lord honey, wisdom in this situation.59000:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.599He can of it. Yeah,so with that, I think we59100:41:55.880 --> 00:42:00.400are done with this episode. Yeah, feel good about that. Yeah,59200:42:00.400 --> 00:42:04.150I feel pretty good about it.I get an a, I think right.59300:42:04.670 --> 00:42:07.269A for this would be be plose. Okay, yeah, and now59400:42:07.590 --> 00:42:12.630you deep great. So, guys, we do appreciate you guys listening and,59500:42:13.590 --> 00:42:15.739as we started out, as wealways say, we appreciate you guys59600:42:15.860 --> 00:42:19.980sharing this podcast, reaching out tous. You can reach me, Daniel59700:42:20.059 --> 00:42:22.860at Love Life Dot Org. Youcan reach her, Vicky at Love Life59800:42:22.900 --> 00:42:25.500Dot Org. If you have questions, comments, things like that. We'd59900:42:25.500 --> 00:42:30.449certainly love to answer those if we'reable. And again, please share this60000:42:30.530 --> 00:42:35.050podcast with people don't neglect us inthe reviews. Give us some good reviews.60100:42:35.090 --> 00:42:37.409We appreciate that. And until nexttime, God, bless God,60200:42:37.449 --> 00:42:50.920bless y'all. Our love for love. Give me our love for gratitude.60300:42:53.000 --> 00:43:02.710I know it will cost me mylife. Nothing's too precious in some you