Nov. 10, 2022

The Ugly Face of Coercion

The Ugly Face of Coercion

A large percentage of women considering abortion do so because they are being coerced into it. We can use some principles to help empower these women to push back against coercion. In this episode, we share some of those principles to help equip you to fight coercion at the abortion centers.

https://sidewalks4life.com/equipping-articles/

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.639 I am yours, I'm yours, I'm yours. And me, Lord, 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:13.320 I'm yours, I'm yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel Centered Pro Life Podcast, 3 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:18.160 a podcast designed to equip, encourage, and challenge you in pro life 4 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:24.519 ministry and always with a focus on the Gospel. Stay tuned. I felt 5 00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:32.600 your pasih touch your heart? Yes, Lord, use me. Lord. 6 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:40.399 Hey there everyone, Welcome to the Gospel Centered Pro Life Podcast. I'm Vicky 7 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:45.719 Kasieric and I'm here with Daniel Parks. So say hi, Daniel, Hi 8 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:54.280 Daniel. So uh, we have a difficult topic today and actually it just 9 00:00:54.399 --> 00:01:00.159 happened again today. So this is a common common issue as side about counselors. 10 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:06.879 And the title of of this podcast in the accompanying article is the ugly 11 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:14.400 face of coercion to abort I remember reading somewhere um and don't quote me on 12 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:15.760 this, you'd have to check it out for yourself, but it was a 13 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:23.640 staggeringly high number. I think it was sixty eight percent of abortions have some 14 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:29.920 form of coercion. So it's a serious issue. I would say that's about 15 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.680 right, whether it's coercion from the father of the baby or a little woman's 16 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:41.280 parents, or grandparents or friends or whatever it might be. Coercions definitely a 17 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:45.799 big factor in the choice to have an abortion. Yeah, and so the 18 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:52.359 this podcast, this article evolved out of an actual case that happened. I 19 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:55.359 think this was a couple of weeks ago when I wrote this, and again 20 00:01:55.400 --> 00:02:01.519 it happened again today, very similar. But um it it often ends as 21 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:07.239 it did in this case, the way co coercient often does end. Where 22 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:12.360 the woman goes through with the abortion because there's either threats there are she's going 23 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:15.800 to lose her home, there's something that is of deep enough concern that that 24 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:23.360 vulnerable person um chooses to go ahead with what she oftentimes doesn't want to do. 25 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:29.080 She she knows it's wrong. So I I will preface this by saying 26 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:34.599 it it leaves you feeling pretty helpless there. There is oftentimes very little that 27 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:39.599 that you can do unless the woman is willing to say I need help, 28 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:46.800 I'm being coerced um, because the police certainly won't act on it if the 29 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:52.639 woman doesn't admit that it's a coercion, and the woman is often frightened into 30 00:02:52.759 --> 00:03:00.520 silence. So a similar theme as with um sexual trafficking, sex trafficking victims, 31 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:07.960 they will not usually tell anyone that they're that they're being forced into the 32 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:14.919 abortion or sex or whatever because they fear they fear for the repercussions. So 33 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:19.039 anyway, so so what happened in this case, um And I think the 34 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:25.120 first thing to to try and understand is how to detect coercion. In this 35 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:30.560 case, it was really obvious. The woman was screaming at the man. 36 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:37.159 She came running out of the abortion center. I tried actually to hand her 37 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:40.319 literature and say we could help her, but she brushed me off, ran 38 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:46.960 up the street with the man following her, and um and he actually I 39 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:52.439 was already calling out, if you're being coerced, that's against the law. 40 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:57.360 We can help you. And the pro abortion crowd was all saying, she's 41 00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.840 not being coerced, you're just making us asumptions. Meanwhile, the up the 42 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:04.439 street, I saw the guy grab her arm and try to pull her back 43 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:10.840 into the abortion center. So it looks like a pretty clear case of coercion. 44 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.680 But they said he he actually wants the baby. He's trying to just 45 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:17.839 get her to go home. You know, you don't know anything, Vicky. 46 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:23.639 Anyway, he actually came back down the street on the other side of 47 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:27.240 the street. The woman remained up the street. I went immediately to the 48 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.040 man and I said, is it true that that you want to save this 49 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.199 baby? And he said, heck no, I want to I want an 50 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:38.240 abortion, and that's why we came all the way from Georgia. So at 51 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:43.839 that point, um I returned back up the street to the woman, who 52 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:48.319 at that she softened immediately. The guy is now staying down the street, 53 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:53.040 and she told me that she actually wanted the baby, and she told me 54 00:04:53.120 --> 00:05:00.800 four times, I want to keep my baby. So it was ob absolutely 55 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:06.199 no question that this was a case of coercion. Um At the boyfriend came 56 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:10.720 back up the street. I had shared our resources. She was ready to 57 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:15.519 walk with me down the street to go on our mobile ultrasound unit. Uh. 58 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:17.720 She she knew my name. We we've been talking a while, and 59 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:23.800 I I felt, this is a woman who has saved her baby. The 60 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:28.120 baby's gonna be fine, and we'll find help to deal with the coercion from 61 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:30.560 the guy. And um he came back up the street and said, can 62 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:34.160 I talk to you in a gentle voice with the woman, and she nodded 63 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:38.399 to me and I said, do you want me just to walk a little 64 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:41.800 bit away, So I did. I stayed close enough that I don't know 65 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:44.600 what I was gonna do. He was a big guy, but so that 66 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:48.319 I was a present still there, but I couldn't hear them, and UM 67 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:54.319 and whatever he said pretty much immediately convinced her to go in and have the 68 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:58.560 abortion, and she started. He walked away again, and she said to 69 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:02.000 me, I'm I'm so right, but I'm going to go in. And 70 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:06.399 and I asked if I talked to the three talking points. I went over 71 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:10.839 what we had said I and then finally asked her if I could pray with 72 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:14.240 her, and she held my hand. She was crying, but she ended 73 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:18.120 up going in my presumption as he threatened her and threatened with something that was 74 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:24.680 scary enough for her that she would change her mind that immediately. So I 75 00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:28.160 don't know that part for effect. But so that was the story that prompted 76 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.759 this sad story. I was very upset by it. Um it really was 77 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:36.439 very deflating and thinking there was nothing we could do. She was not calling 78 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:41.120 and asking for help. There was really nothing that we could do. So 79 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:44.720 one of the things I did when I was writing and thinking about This was 80 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:47.879 just trying to figure out, well, what can we do there are some 81 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:54.680 principles that that we can follow in UM and trying to deal with when we 82 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.160 know that there is a coercion. Yeah, well we know according to that 83 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:01.240 statistic that you shared, was that seeks it's pretty high. I know it's 84 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:05.079 it's more than um, it's almost three quarters. I remember being shocked by 85 00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:10.079 that. Yeah, so in many of the situations that we're encountering, almost 86 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:15.079 three quarters of the situations that we're encountering there's coercion. Coercion involved in there. 87 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:18.839 So it's not like there's some kind of silver bullet that's gonna take care 88 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:25.319 of a coercion and remove it completely. UM. But I think above and 89 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:30.639 beyond all of the things that you can do is helping remind that mother of 90 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.240 why there's conflict. Right, she had to be coerced into it. She 91 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:39.480 wasn't your wholesale I'm ready to have an abortion, So obviously there's conflict there, 92 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:43.480 and I think playing on that why is there conflict? There's conflict because 93 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:46.800 she recognizes that there's something wrong with abortion, and what's wrong with it is 94 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:50.079 that it kills a baby. And so what you have in here is the 95 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:55.680 first point kind of major principle is appealed to them to the positive reasons why 96 00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:59.600 the baby should be saved. He's in the three talking points and calling out 97 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:01.879 to both the man and the woman. I think really focusing on that woman 98 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:07.360 though, and helping her to remember why she doesn't want to have the abortion 99 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.639 because she carries a baby. Right. One of the three main talking points 100 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:15.399 there is humanity through the baby and really focusing on that, helping her to 101 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:20.519 remember that it's a baby, and even the coercion, the pressure that she 102 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.839 feels from the coercion. Actually, um, that's that stuff. And I'm 103 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:30.360 not gonna say it doesn't matter, but it pales in comparison to the value 104 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:33.559 of that baby she carries inside of her womb. That makes sense, Yeah, 105 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.639 it does, And I think I think that is the first thing is 106 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.799 you're assuming you have not yet separated them. You weren't able to get them 107 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.600 apart, because our second point is you should try to get the man alone 108 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:48.039 or the woman alone to speak speak with them alone, get get that coercive 109 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:52.919 influence kind of off to the side, if at all possible. And honestly, 110 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:58.600 these two first points did happen today and we're effective. They were effective 111 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:03.919 the first one. UM I was calling regarding the first point. I was 112 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:07.159 on the microphone, and there was clear conflict because the woman was crying. 113 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:13.840 She's getting on and off her phone. UM she at at various points. 114 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:18.519 They're yet clearly yelling at each other. And they were in and out of 115 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.679 the abortion center log and she kept looking at me. They both kept looking 116 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:24.559 at me and occasionally pointing at me when I was speaking on the mic, 117 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.879 and I was speaking for probably a full half hour, talking about the three 118 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.399 talking points in case you all don't know those God, Humanity, the baby, 119 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:37.360 and resources, and I talked about our free ultrasound. The woman separated 120 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.559 herself from the man at that point and walked straight to me and said, 121 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.240 can I get that free ultrasound? So we were able to get her alone 122 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.919 on the mobile ultrasound unit and speak with her alone, and she definitely wanted 123 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.720 the baby. Was kind of a fallen Christian. She had walked away from 124 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:58.399 the Lord but did believe, and so all the all the words about God 125 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:05.279 had had an impact on her. So I'm sorry, I'm losing my voice, 126 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:09.960 so talking about the UM trying to get that man away and then appealing 127 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:15.440 to him as a man, not just to that woman, separate from the 128 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:18.919 coercion of the man. Yeah, yeah, encouraging him with the fact that 129 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.679 he's the father of that baby and he has a responsibility. Um, I 130 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:28.519 think pushing back against the coercion that he's kind of pushing on her, and 131 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.120 basically, you have no right to course or into killing your own child. 132 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:35.639 I think have you had that happen? I would assume you have. Where 133 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:37.840 do you remember a conversation with a man and the sort of things maybe that 134 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.720 I mean, honestly, most of my conversations with men have been along the 135 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:48.000 lines of they don't want her to have the abortion. They would they would 136 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.879 prefer that she didn't, and I'm encouraging him to like be a man and 137 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:56.039 tell her that. Um not. I don't have an immediate story that comes 138 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:58.799 to mind. I'm I'm sure over the years I've talked to me in along 139 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:01.399 these lines that are trying to worse her, But typically, honestly, like 140 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:07.039 from man to man, those conversations are more, um, it's more of 141 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:11.320 a slight against him. If I'm trying to you tell him you need to 142 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:18.279 stop coercing her. It creates a pretty hostile situation. So in those situations, 143 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.840 I'm going to be very tactful in the way that I'm presenting, in 144 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:26.000 the way that I'm like encouraging him to stop pressing her to have an abortion. 145 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:31.720 You have to be very strategic with those conversations do and they're really hard. 146 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.960 And I will tell you in the case that that happened that I wrote 147 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.039 this about, the man was wearing a big cross around his neck, and 148 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:43.320 that made it even harder. I I did actually confront that, and I 149 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.919 actually think it is important to confront if someone is claiming Christ by their jewelry, 150 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:54.080 at tattoo, whatever. I think you need to say if if you 151 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:58.559 are claiming Jesus as your lord, you can't defend this. You can't defend 152 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:05.360 this behavior. So, um, uh you went to call the police. 153 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.840 Really Uh? Someone did ask me, why didn't you call the police. 154 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:13.399 Well, she never admitted that it was coercion. She said she wanted the 155 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:18.200 baby and that he did not. But she never said he's forcing me, 156 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:22.039 he's coercing me. She never did anything like that. She never called her 157 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:24.879 help, and she walked without him anywhere. He was still across the street. 158 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:30.000 She walked into the abortion center on her own. And so the coercion, 159 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.720 and this is often the case, the coercion is not normally like physically 160 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:37.759 dragging them. Now we've seen that, we have seen that before, Um, 161 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:43.720 But normally it's that relational coercion. It's that emotional manipulation, that kind 162 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:48.039 of coercion that goes on, and that's really hard, like even if you 163 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:50.960 were to call the police, there's nothing they can do about that. The 164 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.600 only coercion And listen, this is this is even a challenge to get at 165 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:58.799 least our local police to do anything about. But the only coercion the police 166 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:03.240 are they gonna do anything about is when they're physically dragging them into the abortion 167 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:07.200 center, you know. And and really, if they're doing that, she 168 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:11.919 would have to be Um, she would have to be willing to be the 169 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:13.679 one that presses charges. And now I'm not saying in that situation we shouldn't 170 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:18.480 call the police, because I think we should. But still yet the police, 171 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:22.320 they're going to be limited in what they can do and really limited for 172 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.320 many of them, and what they what they actually will do. Now, 173 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:28.399 we have had police officers go into the abortion center and literally talk to the 174 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.759 woman, bring her out. Is he coercing you? Is he forcing you 175 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:35.759 to have the abortion? And I've never seen it where they're like, yes, 176 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:39.200 he is right. Most of the time they're like no, even though 177 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:43.759 it's obvious. And so what you have is this whole emotional mental game that's 178 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.799 going on. And so how do you combat that. You can bring the 179 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:52.080 police into the equation, but really you've got to combat that with truth and 180 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.879 again going back to those three talking points over and over again, talking about 181 00:13:54.919 --> 00:14:00.080 talking about God, um resources, and the humanity the baby, and that 182 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.399 that's in both the cases that happened recently, that that is what I did. 183 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:09.039 Um. Offering to pray with them is or with not with them necessarily 184 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.320 at the point that I prayed, I had her alone. But if you 185 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.240 can pray with them, hopefully a man with a man, woman with a 186 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:22.399 woman, restating those arguments where where you can hopefully get there, um, 187 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.080 get them to come alongside to you know, to recognizing the sanctity of that 188 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:31.840 child's life. But what, um, what is really sad? And it's 189 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:35.919 actually not unusual. In this particular case, there was someone calling herself a 190 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:41.120 pastor who was right on the sidewalk and um, and this coersion was happening 191 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:46.559 under her eye, and she was fully supportive of the woman going into a 192 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:52.320 board. She saw the whole thing play out and even had the audacity to 193 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:56.480 say, you can talk with me, I'm a pastor while she's walking the 194 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:01.799 woman in this in this situation is maybe a little uniqu This is a pro 195 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.039 board. This is one of the pro board volunteers or the people that support 196 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:09.919 abortion volunteers, who is a pastor And you guys can't see me, but 197 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:15.440 I'm doing air quotes pastor um. But you know, I'll say that beyond 198 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:20.519 that would being a pro aboord. I've seen situations where it's not coercion from 199 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.799 the pastor but support of the pastor having an abortion. Like we've talked to 200 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:30.440 women I know you have that talked to their pastor and their pastor encouraged them 201 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:35.080 to have an abortion. And that's not necessarily like a direct coercion, but 202 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:41.159 it's not unlike the coercion or I mean, I don't know what you would 203 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:46.000 call it, maybe just plane out just negligence of either doctors, because again, 204 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.080 doctors, pastors, people that are in positions of authority and power who 205 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:56.039 um should do the right thing and should speak the truth. Not speaking the 206 00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:00.279 truth, and that itself is a form of coercion. It's it's like having 207 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:03.240 that rug of support pulled out from under these women, when again, the 208 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:07.600 pastor should be the one speaking the truth, encouraging her to do what is 209 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.960 right and what honors God. In the same way the doctor should be encouraging 210 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:15.240 her to do what's right right, what's morally right, what's medically right. 211 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.840 Like a doctor denying and many do, but denying that there's a baby there, 212 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:22.039 that there's a human being, is you know, scientifically incorrect? Right, 213 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:26.759 They know it's alive, and so there's I don't know if that's coercion 214 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.159 or which you would call that. I think it's negligent. Nelligence is a 215 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.519 great word. And where I was where my mind was going as you were 216 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.600 speaking. I don't know if I brought this out in the article, was 217 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:42.480 that many women will when I'll say does your pastor no, have you spoken 218 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:48.159 to your pastor? And they will say, yeah, he approves. And 219 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:51.720 I don't know if that's always actually the actual case. I think in most 220 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:55.840 cases it's probably that the pastor has been negligent on this issue. Has not 221 00:16:55.960 --> 00:17:00.200 spoken from the pulpit. This is wrong. We will help you. If 222 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.680 you're in any any situation where you would ever consider abortion instead, come to 223 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:07.119 us, and that that is you know, the mission of love life, 224 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.559 that we do want to energize and mobilize the church, That that pastors are 225 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:18.880 making those statements regularly so that there is no question in a congregation's mind where 226 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:26.880 um, Christ followers stand on this issue. So in the end, you 227 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:30.640 know, it didn't end well. She she as far as I know, 228 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:36.960 she did go in. She did have our information and um and she never 229 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:41.680 did call uh. Sadly, But if you can get a number and your 230 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:47.039 information into the hand of any woman that's being coerced, you know, hopefully 231 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:51.640 down the road they will they will call you. UM. But I really 232 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.960 did. From from that experience, there were two huge takeaways. One is, 233 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.519 you do the best you can and you leave the rest up to the 234 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:03.279 Lord, because this is a really hard situation. But secondly, a call 235 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:11.279 to the church. We need the church to be very vocal and very involved 236 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:17.279 in the whole issue of abortion, or or these sorts of scenarios are are 237 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:19.359 just going to keep being playing. Yeah, yeah, I mean at the 238 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:25.200 end of the day, as the church and as pastors and leaders, we 239 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:29.480 need to call men to be men, not to coerce women to have abortions, 240 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:32.559 but to support them, you know, to take responsibility. This is 241 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:36.759 one of the issues with abortion. This is why we say as an organization, 242 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:40.039 often times an abortion is more of a man's issue than it is a 243 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:42.359 woman's issue, because if that man would stand up, first of all, 244 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:47.599 not take advantage of women, not have sex outside of marriage, but even 245 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:52.000 if they do sin and you know, obviously do what's against the will of 246 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:56.839 God, to take responsibility for their actions. Of course, abortion is exactly 247 00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.920 the opposite of that. It's not taking responsibility, it's being in response, 248 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.039 sable and basically paying someone to take care of you quote the problem. And 249 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:08.319 so I think as a church we definitely need to call men to be men. 250 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:14.359 A man that coerces his girlfriend into having an abortion is is not a 251 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:19.359 man. Actually, he's he's a boy chapped in a man's body. And 252 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:22.960 not that I would say that, not that I wouldn't say that. It 253 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:26.920 depends on the scenario, but either way, the principle stands these men that 254 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.599 he'd be called to be men in the same way, friends, family members. 255 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:34.880 This this coercing women to have abortions. This is like, you know, 256 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.039 this is God has called us to so much more. God had called 257 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:42.240 us to support these women rather than to encourage them to have abortions or to 258 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:47.200 threaten them if they don't have abortions. Like you know, we've got to 259 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:52.319 as a society do better. We've got to call people to to higher standards. 260 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.759 Right, Yeah, I would tell you there there were some good things 261 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.960 that came out of it. One of it, UM was that the entire 262 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.079 well not the entire There were four or five of the opposition that surrounded me 263 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:08.000 when I went up to talk to the woman and UM and they said, 264 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.319 you don't have to talk with her, she's a protester. And the woman 265 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.920 said, I want to talk with her. I want to talk with Vicky. 266 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:21.759 I know that she cares. And when the UH pastor in air quotes 267 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.319 said you can talk to me, I'm a pastor, she said, no, 268 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.640 I want my baby. I want to talk to Vicky. So she 269 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:33.359 recognized and it was in front of that group, and I think for a 270 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:38.480 group that claims to want to help women, that was a wake up call 271 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:45.440 you're not helping women when seventy or some percentage that that's quite high of them 272 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:49.279 are being coerced and you're setting up a climate where they cannot come to the 273 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.799 people who are offering help and the choice for life. You're not helping them. 274 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:59.440 They're being coerced. In most cases, they're being coerced by someone. 275 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.799 And it dispels that whole lie that women that come to an abortion center already 276 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.720 have their mind made up. So such a lie. And so yeah, 277 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:12.279 we hope this podcast episode was a blessing to you guys, and uh can 278 00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:17.160 we hope that you would share this podcast with other folks. We also I 279 00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:19.319 encourage you guys to reach out to us if you have any questions or comments 280 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:23.640 encouragements that had to do with this episode or others. My email addresses daniel 281 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:27.559 a love life dot org and reach out to Vicky Vicky with hy at love 282 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:30.359 life dot org. We'd love to hear from you. But until next time, 283 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:37.759 God bless God, bless you all. Give me our love for love, 284 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:51.160 give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my 285 00:21:51.279 --> 00:22:11.359 life. Nothing's too precious. And some that you and