The Ugly Face of Coercion

WEBVTT100:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.639I am yours, I'm yours,I'm yours. And me, Lord,200:00:06.960 --> 00:00:13.320I'm yours, I'm yours. I'mwelcome to the Gospel Centered Pro Life Podcast,300:00:13.359 --> 00:00:18.160a podcast designed to equip, encourage, and challenge you in pro life400:00:18.199 --> 00:00:24.519ministry and always with a focus onthe Gospel. Stay tuned. I felt500:00:24.800 --> 00:00:32.600your pasih touch your heart? Yes, Lord, use me. Lord.600:00:34.320 --> 00:00:40.399Hey there everyone, Welcome to theGospel Centered Pro Life Podcast. I'm Vicky700:00:40.520 --> 00:00:45.719Kasieric and I'm here with Daniel Parks. So say hi, Daniel, Hi800:00:45.840 --> 00:00:54.280Daniel. So uh, we havea difficult topic today and actually it just900:00:54.399 --> 00:01:00.159happened again today. So this isa common common issue as side about counselors.1000:01:00.200 --> 00:01:06.879And the title of of this podcastin the accompanying article is the ugly1100:01:07.040 --> 00:01:14.400face of coercion to abort I rememberreading somewhere um and don't quote me on1200:01:14.480 --> 00:01:15.760this, you'd have to check itout for yourself, but it was a1300:01:15.840 --> 00:01:23.640staggeringly high number. I think itwas sixty eight percent of abortions have some1400:01:23.680 --> 00:01:29.920form of coercion. So it's aserious issue. I would say that's about1500:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.680right, whether it's coercion from thefather of the baby or a little woman's1600:01:34.719 --> 00:01:41.280parents, or grandparents or friends orwhatever it might be. Coercions definitely a1700:01:41.319 --> 00:01:45.799big factor in the choice to havean abortion. Yeah, and so the1800:01:46.200 --> 00:01:52.359this podcast, this article evolved outof an actual case that happened. I1900:01:52.400 --> 00:01:55.359think this was a couple of weeksago when I wrote this, and again2000:01:55.400 --> 00:02:01.519it happened again today, very similar. But um it it often ends as2100:02:01.560 --> 00:02:07.239it did in this case, theway co coercient often does end. Where2200:02:07.040 --> 00:02:12.360the woman goes through with the abortionbecause there's either threats there are she's going2300:02:12.400 --> 00:02:15.800to lose her home, there's somethingthat is of deep enough concern that that2400:02:15.960 --> 00:02:23.360vulnerable person um chooses to go aheadwith what she oftentimes doesn't want to do.2500:02:23.599 --> 00:02:29.080She she knows it's wrong. SoI I will preface this by saying2600:02:29.439 --> 00:02:34.599it it leaves you feeling pretty helplessthere. There is oftentimes very little that2700:02:34.800 --> 00:02:39.599that you can do unless the womanis willing to say I need help,2800:02:40.120 --> 00:02:46.800I'm being coerced um, because thepolice certainly won't act on it if the2900:02:46.840 --> 00:02:52.639woman doesn't admit that it's a coercion, and the woman is often frightened into3000:02:52.759 --> 00:03:00.520silence. So a similar theme aswith um sexual trafficking, sex trafficking victims,3100:03:00.599 --> 00:03:07.960they will not usually tell anyone thatthey're that they're being forced into the3200:03:08.000 --> 00:03:14.919abortion or sex or whatever because theyfear they fear for the repercussions. So3300:03:14.960 --> 00:03:19.039anyway, so so what happened inthis case, um And I think the3400:03:19.159 --> 00:03:25.120first thing to to try and understandis how to detect coercion. In this3500:03:25.159 --> 00:03:30.560case, it was really obvious.The woman was screaming at the man.3600:03:31.039 --> 00:03:37.159She came running out of the abortioncenter. I tried actually to hand her3700:03:37.199 --> 00:03:40.319literature and say we could help her, but she brushed me off, ran3800:03:40.520 --> 00:03:46.960up the street with the man followingher, and um and he actually I3900:03:47.000 --> 00:03:52.439was already calling out, if you'rebeing coerced, that's against the law.4000:03:52.599 --> 00:03:57.360We can help you. And thepro abortion crowd was all saying, she's4100:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.840not being coerced, you're just makingus asumptions. Meanwhile, the up the4200:04:00.879 --> 00:04:04.439street, I saw the guy grabher arm and try to pull her back4300:04:05.039 --> 00:04:10.840into the abortion center. So itlooks like a pretty clear case of coercion.4400:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.680But they said he he actually wantsthe baby. He's trying to just4500:04:15.879 --> 00:04:17.839get her to go home. Youknow, you don't know anything, Vicky.4600:04:17.879 --> 00:04:23.639Anyway, he actually came back downthe street on the other side of4700:04:23.639 --> 00:04:27.240the street. The woman remained upthe street. I went immediately to the4800:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.040man and I said, is ittrue that that you want to save this4900:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.199baby? And he said, heckno, I want to I want an5000:04:33.199 --> 00:04:38.240abortion, and that's why we cameall the way from Georgia. So at5100:04:38.279 --> 00:04:43.839that point, um I returned backup the street to the woman, who5200:04:43.879 --> 00:04:48.319at that she softened immediately. Theguy is now staying down the street,5300:04:48.360 --> 00:04:53.040and she told me that she actuallywanted the baby, and she told me5400:04:53.120 --> 00:05:00.800four times, I want to keepmy baby. So it was ob absolutely5500:05:00.839 --> 00:05:06.199no question that this was a caseof coercion. Um At the boyfriend came5600:05:06.240 --> 00:05:10.720back up the street. I hadshared our resources. She was ready to5700:05:10.800 --> 00:05:15.519walk with me down the street togo on our mobile ultrasound unit. Uh.5800:05:15.560 --> 00:05:17.720She she knew my name. Wewe've been talking a while, and5900:05:18.439 --> 00:05:23.800I I felt, this is awoman who has saved her baby. The6000:05:23.839 --> 00:05:28.120baby's gonna be fine, and we'llfind help to deal with the coercion from6100:05:28.120 --> 00:05:30.560the guy. And um he cameback up the street and said, can6200:05:30.600 --> 00:05:34.160I talk to you in a gentlevoice with the woman, and she nodded6300:05:34.199 --> 00:05:38.399to me and I said, doyou want me just to walk a little6400:05:38.399 --> 00:05:41.800bit away, So I did.I stayed close enough that I don't know6500:05:41.839 --> 00:05:44.600what I was gonna do. Hewas a big guy, but so that6600:05:44.759 --> 00:05:48.319I was a present still there,but I couldn't hear them, and UM6700:05:48.360 --> 00:05:54.319and whatever he said pretty much immediatelyconvinced her to go in and have the6800:05:54.319 --> 00:05:58.560abortion, and she started. Hewalked away again, and she said to6900:05:58.720 --> 00:06:02.000me, I'm I'm so right,but I'm going to go in. And7000:06:02.000 --> 00:06:06.399and I asked if I talked tothe three talking points. I went over7100:06:06.480 --> 00:06:10.839what we had said I and thenfinally asked her if I could pray with7200:06:10.879 --> 00:06:14.240her, and she held my hand. She was crying, but she ended7300:06:14.279 --> 00:06:18.120up going in my presumption as hethreatened her and threatened with something that was7400:06:18.759 --> 00:06:24.680scary enough for her that she wouldchange her mind that immediately. So I7500:06:24.680 --> 00:06:28.160don't know that part for effect.But so that was the story that prompted7600:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.759this sad story. I was veryupset by it. Um it really was7700:06:32.000 --> 00:06:36.439very deflating and thinking there was nothingwe could do. She was not calling7800:06:36.439 --> 00:06:41.120and asking for help. There wasreally nothing that we could do. So7900:06:41.240 --> 00:06:44.720one of the things I did whenI was writing and thinking about This was8000:06:45.279 --> 00:06:47.879just trying to figure out, well, what can we do there are some8100:06:48.040 --> 00:06:54.680principles that that we can follow inUM and trying to deal with when we8200:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.160know that there is a coercion.Yeah, well we know according to that8300:06:58.279 --> 00:07:01.240statistic that you shared, was thatseeks it's pretty high. I know it's8400:07:01.319 --> 00:07:05.079it's more than um, it's almostthree quarters. I remember being shocked by8500:07:05.079 --> 00:07:10.079that. Yeah, so in manyof the situations that we're encountering, almost8600:07:10.120 --> 00:07:15.079three quarters of the situations that we'reencountering there's coercion. Coercion involved in there.8700:07:15.160 --> 00:07:18.839So it's not like there's some kindof silver bullet that's gonna take care8800:07:18.839 --> 00:07:25.319of a coercion and remove it completely. UM. But I think above and8900:07:25.360 --> 00:07:30.639beyond all of the things that youcan do is helping remind that mother of9000:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.240why there's conflict. Right, shehad to be coerced into it. She9100:07:33.399 --> 00:07:39.480wasn't your wholesale I'm ready to havean abortion, So obviously there's conflict there,9200:07:40.199 --> 00:07:43.480and I think playing on that whyis there conflict? There's conflict because9300:07:43.480 --> 00:07:46.800she recognizes that there's something wrong withabortion, and what's wrong with it is9400:07:46.879 --> 00:07:50.079that it kills a baby. Andso what you have in here is the9500:07:50.120 --> 00:07:55.680first point kind of major principle isappealed to them to the positive reasons why9600:07:55.759 --> 00:07:59.600the baby should be saved. He'sin the three talking points and calling out9700:07:59.680 --> 00:08:01.879to both the man and the woman. I think really focusing on that woman9800:08:01.879 --> 00:08:07.360though, and helping her to rememberwhy she doesn't want to have the abortion9900:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.639because she carries a baby. Right. One of the three main talking points10000:08:09.639 --> 00:08:15.399there is humanity through the baby andreally focusing on that, helping her to10100:08:15.560 --> 00:08:20.519remember that it's a baby, andeven the coercion, the pressure that she10200:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.839feels from the coercion. Actually,um, that's that stuff. And I'm10300:08:24.839 --> 00:08:30.360not gonna say it doesn't matter,but it pales in comparison to the value10400:08:30.399 --> 00:08:33.559of that baby she carries inside ofher womb. That makes sense, Yeah,10500:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.639it does, And I think Ithink that is the first thing is10600:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.799you're assuming you have not yet separatedthem. You weren't able to get them10700:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.600apart, because our second point isyou should try to get the man alone10800:08:43.799 --> 00:08:48.039or the woman alone to speak speakwith them alone, get get that coercive10900:08:48.159 --> 00:08:52.919influence kind of off to the side, if at all possible. And honestly,11000:08:54.000 --> 00:08:58.600these two first points did happen todayand we're effective. They were effective11100:09:00.279 --> 00:09:03.919the first one. UM I wascalling regarding the first point. I was11200:09:03.960 --> 00:09:07.159on the microphone, and there wasclear conflict because the woman was crying.11300:09:07.639 --> 00:09:13.840She's getting on and off her phone. UM she at at various points.11400:09:13.840 --> 00:09:18.519They're yet clearly yelling at each other. And they were in and out of11500:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.679the abortion center log and she keptlooking at me. They both kept looking11600:09:22.679 --> 00:09:24.559at me and occasionally pointing at mewhen I was speaking on the mic,11700:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.879and I was speaking for probably afull half hour, talking about the three11800:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.399talking points in case you all don'tknow those God, Humanity, the baby,11900:09:31.399 --> 00:09:37.360and resources, and I talked aboutour free ultrasound. The woman separated12000:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.559herself from the man at that pointand walked straight to me and said,12100:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.240can I get that free ultrasound?So we were able to get her alone12200:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.919on the mobile ultrasound unit and speakwith her alone, and she definitely wanted12300:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.720the baby. Was kind of afallen Christian. She had walked away from12400:09:54.759 --> 00:09:58.399the Lord but did believe, andso all the all the words about God12500:09:58.440 --> 00:10:05.279had had an impact on her.So I'm sorry, I'm losing my voice,12600:10:05.519 --> 00:10:09.960so talking about the UM trying toget that man away and then appealing12700:10:11.000 --> 00:10:15.440to him as a man, notjust to that woman, separate from the12800:10:15.559 --> 00:10:18.919coercion of the man. Yeah,yeah, encouraging him with the fact that12900:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.679he's the father of that baby andhe has a responsibility. Um, I13000:10:22.720 --> 00:10:28.519think pushing back against the coercion thathe's kind of pushing on her, and13100:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.120basically, you have no right tocourse or into killing your own child.13200:10:31.399 --> 00:10:35.639I think have you had that happen? I would assume you have. Where13300:10:35.679 --> 00:10:37.840do you remember a conversation with aman and the sort of things maybe that13400:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.720I mean, honestly, most ofmy conversations with men have been along the13500:10:43.759 --> 00:10:48.000lines of they don't want her tohave the abortion. They would they would13600:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.879prefer that she didn't, and I'mencouraging him to like be a man and13700:10:50.919 --> 00:10:56.039tell her that. Um not.I don't have an immediate story that comes13800:10:56.080 --> 00:10:58.799to mind. I'm I'm sure overthe years I've talked to me in along13900:10:58.840 --> 00:11:01.399these lines that are trying to worseher, But typically, honestly, like14000:11:01.799 --> 00:11:07.039from man to man, those conversationsare more, um, it's more of14100:11:07.039 --> 00:11:11.320a slight against him. If I'mtrying to you tell him you need to14200:11:11.320 --> 00:11:18.279stop coercing her. It creates apretty hostile situation. So in those situations,14300:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.840I'm going to be very tactful inthe way that I'm presenting, in14400:11:20.879 --> 00:11:26.000the way that I'm like encouraging himto stop pressing her to have an abortion.14500:11:26.440 --> 00:11:31.720You have to be very strategic withthose conversations do and they're really hard.14600:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.960And I will tell you in thecase that that happened that I wrote14700:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.039this about, the man was wearinga big cross around his neck, and14800:11:39.120 --> 00:11:43.320that made it even harder. II did actually confront that, and I14900:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.919actually think it is important to confrontif someone is claiming Christ by their jewelry,15000:11:48.919 --> 00:11:54.080at tattoo, whatever. I thinkyou need to say if if you15100:11:54.279 --> 00:11:58.559are claiming Jesus as your lord,you can't defend this. You can't defend15200:11:58.559 --> 00:12:05.360this behavior. So, um,uh you went to call the police.15300:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.840Really Uh? Someone did ask me, why didn't you call the police.15400:12:09.080 --> 00:12:13.399Well, she never admitted that itwas coercion. She said she wanted the15500:12:13.399 --> 00:12:18.200baby and that he did not.But she never said he's forcing me,15600:12:18.279 --> 00:12:22.039he's coercing me. She never didanything like that. She never called her15700:12:22.039 --> 00:12:24.879help, and she walked without himanywhere. He was still across the street.15800:12:24.919 --> 00:12:30.000She walked into the abortion center onher own. And so the coercion,15900:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.720and this is often the case,the coercion is not normally like physically16000:12:33.799 --> 00:12:37.759dragging them. Now we've seen that, we have seen that before, Um,16100:12:37.799 --> 00:12:43.720But normally it's that relational coercion.It's that emotional manipulation, that kind16200:12:43.720 --> 00:12:48.039of coercion that goes on, andthat's really hard, like even if you16300:12:48.039 --> 00:12:50.960were to call the police, there'snothing they can do about that. The16400:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.600only coercion And listen, this isthis is even a challenge to get at16500:12:54.639 --> 00:12:58.799least our local police to do anythingabout. But the only coercion the police16600:12:58.799 --> 00:13:03.240are they gonna do anything about iswhen they're physically dragging them into the abortion16700:13:03.279 --> 00:13:07.200center, you know. And andreally, if they're doing that, she16800:13:07.279 --> 00:13:11.919would have to be Um, shewould have to be willing to be the16900:13:11.919 --> 00:13:13.679one that presses charges. And nowI'm not saying in that situation we shouldn't17000:13:13.679 --> 00:13:18.480call the police, because I thinkwe should. But still yet the police,17100:13:18.159 --> 00:13:22.320they're going to be limited in whatthey can do and really limited for17200:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.320many of them, and what theywhat they actually will do. Now,17300:13:24.360 --> 00:13:28.399we have had police officers go intothe abortion center and literally talk to the17400:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.759woman, bring her out. Ishe coercing you? Is he forcing you17500:13:31.799 --> 00:13:35.759to have the abortion? And I'venever seen it where they're like, yes,17600:13:35.919 --> 00:13:39.200he is right. Most of thetime they're like no, even though17700:13:39.240 --> 00:13:43.759it's obvious. And so what youhave is this whole emotional mental game that's17800:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.799going on. And so how doyou combat that. You can bring the17900:13:46.799 --> 00:13:52.080police into the equation, but reallyyou've got to combat that with truth and18000:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.879again going back to those three talkingpoints over and over again, talking about18100:13:54.919 --> 00:14:00.080talking about God, um resources,and the humanity the baby, and that18200:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.399that's in both the cases that happenedrecently, that that is what I did.18300:14:03.080 --> 00:14:09.039Um. Offering to pray with themis or with not with them necessarily18400:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.320at the point that I prayed,I had her alone. But if you18500:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.240can pray with them, hopefully aman with a man, woman with a18600:14:16.279 --> 00:14:22.399woman, restating those arguments where whereyou can hopefully get there, um,18700:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.080get them to come alongside to youknow, to recognizing the sanctity of that18800:14:26.200 --> 00:14:31.840child's life. But what, um, what is really sad? And it's18900:14:31.840 --> 00:14:35.919actually not unusual. In this particularcase, there was someone calling herself a19000:14:35.039 --> 00:14:41.120pastor who was right on the sidewalkand um, and this coersion was happening19100:14:41.600 --> 00:14:46.559under her eye, and she wasfully supportive of the woman going into a19200:14:46.600 --> 00:14:52.320board. She saw the whole thingplay out and even had the audacity to19300:14:52.440 --> 00:14:56.480say, you can talk with me, I'm a pastor while she's walking the19400:14:56.480 --> 00:15:01.799woman in this in this situation ismaybe a little uniqu This is a pro19500:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.039board. This is one of thepro board volunteers or the people that support19600:15:05.039 --> 00:15:09.919abortion volunteers, who is a pastorAnd you guys can't see me, but19700:15:09.960 --> 00:15:15.440I'm doing air quotes pastor um.But you know, I'll say that beyond19800:15:15.480 --> 00:15:20.519that would being a pro aboord.I've seen situations where it's not coercion from19900:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.799the pastor but support of the pastorhaving an abortion. Like we've talked to20000:15:24.799 --> 00:15:30.440women I know you have that talkedto their pastor and their pastor encouraged them20100:15:30.440 --> 00:15:35.080to have an abortion. And that'snot necessarily like a direct coercion, but20200:15:35.240 --> 00:15:41.159it's not unlike the coercion or Imean, I don't know what you would20300:15:41.200 --> 00:15:46.000call it, maybe just plane outjust negligence of either doctors, because again,20400:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.080doctors, pastors, people that arein positions of authority and power who20500:15:50.200 --> 00:15:56.039um should do the right thing andshould speak the truth. Not speaking the20600:15:56.039 --> 00:16:00.279truth, and that itself is aform of coercion. It's it's like having20700:16:00.320 --> 00:16:03.240that rug of support pulled out fromunder these women, when again, the20800:16:03.279 --> 00:16:07.600pastor should be the one speaking thetruth, encouraging her to do what is20900:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.960right and what honors God. Inthe same way the doctor should be encouraging21000:16:10.960 --> 00:16:15.240her to do what's right right,what's morally right, what's medically right.21100:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.840Like a doctor denying and many do, but denying that there's a baby there,21200:16:18.879 --> 00:16:22.039that there's a human being, isyou know, scientifically incorrect? Right,21300:16:22.080 --> 00:16:26.759They know it's alive, and sothere's I don't know if that's coercion21400:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.159or which you would call that.I think it's negligent. Nelligence is a21500:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.519great word. And where I waswhere my mind was going as you were21600:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.600speaking. I don't know if Ibrought this out in the article, was21700:16:37.039 --> 00:16:42.480that many women will when I'll saydoes your pastor no, have you spoken21800:16:42.480 --> 00:16:48.159to your pastor? And they willsay, yeah, he approves. And21900:16:48.360 --> 00:16:51.720I don't know if that's always actuallythe actual case. I think in most22000:16:51.759 --> 00:16:55.840cases it's probably that the pastor hasbeen negligent on this issue. Has not22100:16:55.960 --> 00:17:00.200spoken from the pulpit. This iswrong. We will help you. If22200:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.680you're in any any situation where youwould ever consider abortion instead, come to22300:17:03.799 --> 00:17:07.119us, and that that is youknow, the mission of love life,22400:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.559that we do want to energize andmobilize the church, That that pastors are22500:17:11.599 --> 00:17:18.880making those statements regularly so that thereis no question in a congregation's mind where22600:17:18.480 --> 00:17:26.880um, Christ followers stand on thisissue. So in the end, you22700:17:26.920 --> 00:17:30.640know, it didn't end well.She she as far as I know,22800:17:30.799 --> 00:17:36.960she did go in. She didhave our information and um and she never22900:17:37.000 --> 00:17:41.680did call uh. Sadly, Butif you can get a number and your23000:17:41.720 --> 00:17:47.039information into the hand of any womanthat's being coerced, you know, hopefully23100:17:47.079 --> 00:17:51.640down the road they will they willcall you. UM. But I really23200:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.960did. From from that experience,there were two huge takeaways. One is,23300:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.519you do the best you can andyou leave the rest up to the23400:17:57.519 --> 00:18:03.279Lord, because this is a reallyhard situation. But secondly, a call23500:18:03.359 --> 00:18:11.279to the church. We need thechurch to be very vocal and very involved23600:18:11.799 --> 00:18:17.279in the whole issue of abortion,or or these sorts of scenarios are are23700:18:17.759 --> 00:18:19.359just going to keep being playing.Yeah, yeah, I mean at the23800:18:19.400 --> 00:18:25.200end of the day, as thechurch and as pastors and leaders, we23900:18:25.240 --> 00:18:29.480need to call men to be men, not to coerce women to have abortions,24000:18:29.920 --> 00:18:32.559but to support them, you know, to take responsibility. This is24100:18:32.559 --> 00:18:36.759one of the issues with abortion.This is why we say as an organization,24200:18:36.799 --> 00:18:40.039often times an abortion is more ofa man's issue than it is a24300:18:40.039 --> 00:18:42.359woman's issue, because if that manwould stand up, first of all,24400:18:42.720 --> 00:18:47.599not take advantage of women, nothave sex outside of marriage, but even24500:18:47.640 --> 00:18:52.000if they do sin and you know, obviously do what's against the will of24600:18:52.079 --> 00:18:56.839God, to take responsibility for theiractions. Of course, abortion is exactly24700:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.920the opposite of that. It's nottaking responsibility, it's being in response,24800:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.039sable and basically paying someone to takecare of you quote the problem. And24900:19:04.079 --> 00:19:08.319so I think as a church wedefinitely need to call men to be men.25000:19:10.279 --> 00:19:14.359A man that coerces his girlfriend intohaving an abortion is is not a25100:19:14.400 --> 00:19:19.359man. Actually, he's he's aboy chapped in a man's body. And25200:19:19.519 --> 00:19:22.960not that I would say that,not that I wouldn't say that. It25300:19:22.039 --> 00:19:26.920depends on the scenario, but eitherway, the principle stands these men that25400:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.599he'd be called to be men inthe same way, friends, family members.25500:19:30.160 --> 00:19:34.880This this coercing women to have abortions. This is like, you know,25600:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.039this is God has called us toso much more. God had called25700:19:38.119 --> 00:19:42.240us to support these women rather thanto encourage them to have abortions or to25800:19:42.640 --> 00:19:47.200threaten them if they don't have abortions. Like you know, we've got to25900:19:47.759 --> 00:19:52.319as a society do better. We'vegot to call people to to higher standards.26000:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.759Right, Yeah, I would tellyou there there were some good things26100:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.960that came out of it. Oneof it, UM was that the entire26200:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.079well not the entire There were fouror five of the opposition that surrounded me26300:20:04.119 --> 00:20:08.000when I went up to talk tothe woman and UM and they said,26400:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.319you don't have to talk with her, she's a protester. And the woman26500:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.920said, I want to talk withher. I want to talk with Vicky.26600:20:15.039 --> 00:20:21.759I know that she cares. Andwhen the UH pastor in air quotes26700:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.319said you can talk to me,I'm a pastor, she said, no,26800:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.640I want my baby. I wantto talk to Vicky. So she26900:20:29.759 --> 00:20:33.359recognized and it was in front ofthat group, and I think for a27000:20:33.480 --> 00:20:38.480group that claims to want to helpwomen, that was a wake up call27100:20:38.839 --> 00:20:45.440you're not helping women when seventy orsome percentage that that's quite high of them27200:20:45.480 --> 00:20:49.279are being coerced and you're setting upa climate where they cannot come to the27300:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.799people who are offering help and thechoice for life. You're not helping them.27400:20:53.839 --> 00:20:59.440They're being coerced. In most cases, they're being coerced by someone.27500:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.799And it dispels that whole lie thatwomen that come to an abortion center already27600:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.720have their mind made up. Sosuch a lie. And so yeah,27700:21:07.799 --> 00:21:12.279we hope this podcast episode was ablessing to you guys, and uh can27800:21:12.319 --> 00:21:17.160we hope that you would share thispodcast with other folks. We also I27900:21:17.240 --> 00:21:19.319encourage you guys to reach out tous if you have any questions or comments28000:21:19.359 --> 00:21:23.640encouragements that had to do with thisepisode or others. My email addresses daniel28100:21:23.640 --> 00:21:27.559a love life dot org and reachout to Vicky Vicky with hy at love28200:21:27.599 --> 00:21:30.359life dot org. We'd love tohear from you. But until next time,28300:21:30.480 --> 00:21:37.759God bless God, bless you all. Give me our love for love,28400:21:41.480 --> 00:21:51.160give me our love for gratitude.I know it will cost me my28500:21:51.279 --> 00:22:11.359life. Nothing's too precious. Andsome that you and