Nov. 13, 2019

The Danger of Incrementalism in the Battle to End Abortion

The Danger of Incrementalism in the Battle to End Abortion

Interview with Flip Benham


In this episode Daniel interviews pro-life pioneer, Flip Benham, about the danger of an incremental approach to ending abortion in our nation. There are many opinions of how to bring the abortion holocaust to an end but what does the Bible say about this? Join us as we talk through this very important topic.

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:06.440 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Send Me Lord. 2 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:10.910 I am welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast and this episode we're 3 00:00:10.910 --> 00:00:13.789 going to talk with the pioneer from the pro life movement, Flip Benham, 4 00:00:14.109 --> 00:00:18.429 about the problem of incrementalism and trying to end abortion. This is an important 5 00:00:18.429 --> 00:00:29.059 topic, so please stick with us. I felt show passis touch your heart. 6 00:00:35.969 --> 00:00:38.609 All right. Well, welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. 7 00:00:38.810 --> 00:00:43.490 Have with me today Flip Benham, who is a pioneer in Pro Life Ministry 8 00:00:43.609 --> 00:00:48.770 and just Gospel Preaching, and I wanted him to come and talk about sort 9 00:00:48.810 --> 00:00:51.640 of the controversy, I guess, has been in the pro life movement, 10 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:58.079 even modern abolitionist movement, thing about incrementalism and immediatism, these sort of terms 11 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:02.000 that maybe some people that are listening or watching have no clue what these even 12 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:06.189 mean. So let's first define those terms. What is immediatism and what is 13 00:01:06.230 --> 00:01:10.430 incrementalism? Maybe start with income incrementalism first, if you if you will. 14 00:01:10.469 --> 00:01:14.670 INCREMENTALISM is simply you'll find it in genesis chapter one and chat, and I 15 00:01:14.750 --> 00:01:17.750 excuse me, a genesis chapter three is where you really see it, where 16 00:01:17.750 --> 00:01:22.739 the serpent comes up in to tempt Adam, but he's going to get to 17 00:01:23.340 --> 00:01:26.060 Adam through eve, okay, and so Adams sits back. That's what men 18 00:01:26.140 --> 00:01:33.810 do. And let's Eve. God had given specific instructions to to Adam not 19 00:01:34.129 --> 00:01:37.769 to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yeah, 20 00:01:38.170 --> 00:01:42.609 and Adam understood it and it was Adam's duty to tell that to eve. 21 00:01:42.969 --> 00:01:48.079 But as eve gets close to this tree of the knowledge of good and evil, 22 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:53.840 there is a serpent and that serpent begins right off the bat. And 23 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:59.920 Genesis chapter three, verse one. Did God really say? Yeah, incrementally 24 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.549 begins to break down. Dick out. Really say that? Does he really 25 00:02:04.629 --> 00:02:08.909 mean that? And he and that's how he breaks into a city, that's 26 00:02:08.990 --> 00:02:14.710 how he breaks into a person, that's how he breaks into a nation. 27 00:02:14.990 --> 00:02:21.460 Incremental steps, he slithers and he dislike a python. He can almost hit 28 00:02:21.620 --> 00:02:27.340 that python almost hypnotizes if you've ever seen that a national geographic movie where you've 29 00:02:27.340 --> 00:02:31.090 got a python on a tree and a monkey sitting there going when pointing in, 30 00:02:31.610 --> 00:02:36.409 and yet the monkey doesn't move and the python out. This is over 31 00:02:36.449 --> 00:02:39.770 a period of time and and and the python just slowly but surely, and 32 00:02:39.849 --> 00:02:45.120 then he gets around the monkey and he kills the Monkey East. The monkey 33 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.919 had could have gotten away a bazillion times, but didn't because this python got 34 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:53.000 and just and just slowly took him out. No, if you get a 35 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:57.000 man goose and you put him with a python, there's a whole different story. 36 00:02:57.080 --> 00:02:59.629 That Mon Goose is going out to kill that snake. That's it. 37 00:02:59.830 --> 00:03:01.949 That's just the way it is. That's the battle. Adam should have been 38 00:03:01.990 --> 00:03:06.990 there. He knew, he knew that she was not to eat. So 39 00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:12.069 show he incrementally takes things away from us. So that's how do we go 40 00:03:12.189 --> 00:03:17.379 when we're talking about the issue of abortion and we're talking about incrementalism, sort 41 00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:20.740 of what you're saying is, and I think this is what people need to 42 00:03:20.819 --> 00:03:27.210 get, is that an incremental approach to ending abortion as almost using the devil's 43 00:03:27.250 --> 00:03:30.849 tactics, like it's devil coasically. Okay, that using the tactics of the 44 00:03:30.969 --> 00:03:37.090 devil rather than God's word. Okay, and so that's, of course, 45 00:03:37.210 --> 00:03:39.210 you know, Gospel Center pro life, that the focus of this podcast is, 46 00:03:39.689 --> 00:03:43.400 you know, talking about pro life stuff, talking about abortion and light 47 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:46.439 of the Gospel, the truth of God's word, the impact that God's word 48 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.400 has on a human heart rather than our you know, even medical facts, 49 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:53.080 all this stuff, that stuff that can be good. It's ultimate. It's 50 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:55.949 God's word that changes the heart. And and what you're saying is it's God's 51 00:03:55.990 --> 00:04:00.430 word that wins this battle. It's God's it's obedience to what God is saying 52 00:04:00.629 --> 00:04:05.310 is word. So walk through kind of how that works and how Christians can 53 00:04:05.430 --> 00:04:09.110 sort of fall for that trap. As far as incrementalism, mean, you 54 00:04:09.270 --> 00:04:12.580 just practically speaking, had a conversation with the Christian this morning about, you 55 00:04:12.659 --> 00:04:17.019 know, is it a bad thing that legislation is passed that will limit abortions 56 00:04:17.019 --> 00:04:20.300 at a certain you know, at a certain stage? And in my mind 57 00:04:20.339 --> 00:04:24.259 I'm thinking it's not a bad I mean, if a baby saved because they 58 00:04:24.290 --> 00:04:27.490 pass some incremental thing, I don't put it a whole lot of thought of 59 00:04:27.529 --> 00:04:30.769 this. This of a evn't any too and in anyway. So it's so 60 00:04:30.889 --> 00:04:33.930 sort of correct and understanding. And well, let me just go back now. 61 00:04:34.050 --> 00:04:40.879 So I we're talking about to people and to and two nations. This 62 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.399 is how the devil works. He doesn't change. Ever, this is what 63 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:46.920 he does. Slowly but surely, he begins to suck you and he begins 64 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:51.160 to break down and he starts always with did God really say? He tells 65 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:57.310 this book into question. So and one, nineteen sixty two we had a 66 00:04:57.310 --> 00:05:00.750 supreme court decision. I'll just give you some Supreme Court decission. Nineteen Sixty 67 00:05:00.750 --> 00:05:05.149 two supreme court decision called angle versus fatal and angle versus fatalel it removed prayer 68 00:05:05.310 --> 00:05:12.459 from school, slowly but surely. In nineteen sixty three there was another supreme 69 00:05:12.500 --> 00:05:18.500 court case called Abington versus Shimp and in that one they removed Bible reading from 70 00:05:18.540 --> 00:05:25.129 school. Well, so you remove God from school, you see, slowly 71 00:05:25.250 --> 00:05:27.490 but sure. Yeah, we don't do it right away. Yeah, that 72 00:05:27.610 --> 00:05:30.610 devil doesn't show up with horns and a pitchfork and a red you know. 73 00:05:30.970 --> 00:05:33.649 Yeah, he's just incrementally saying, though, these things are right, because 74 00:05:33.769 --> 00:05:38.720 isn't there a separation between Church and state? And and uses that argument. 75 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:42.240 Did God really say? So, let's just keep that out of the public 76 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:46.199 school. Well, when you remove God from the Public School, when he's 77 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.069 expelled from school, banished from the schoolyard, he's replaced with all sorts of 78 00:05:50.189 --> 00:05:55.470 other things, and so we get this whole breakdown of morals and then we 79 00:05:55.750 --> 00:05:59.470 now we're into the S and we're into free sex, were into everything else 80 00:05:59.509 --> 00:06:03.379 that you could possibly imagine. And I'm Januaries twenty two, one thousand nine 81 00:06:03.379 --> 00:06:08.019 hundred and seventy three. The Supreme Court comes up with another decision called roll 82 00:06:08.060 --> 00:06:10.980 versus Wade. Roll versus Wade says, well, look, if you're having 83 00:06:11.019 --> 00:06:13.620 sex like this and you, if you're having sex like animals, are going 84 00:06:13.620 --> 00:06:16.740 to have sex with anything that's warm, then what's going to happen? Well, 85 00:06:16.779 --> 00:06:19.050 you're probably going to get some babies. I don't care what kind of 86 00:06:19.089 --> 00:06:23.769 contraceptive you use, they're probably going to be babies produced, and indeed there 87 00:06:23.850 --> 00:06:27.649 were. So how do we solve this problem? Well, it tells us 88 00:06:27.769 --> 00:06:30.050 in the Bible that all who hate me love death. Yeah, that's what 89 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:33.040 it says in proverbs, Chapter Eight, verse Thirty Six. But all who 90 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:38.000 hate me love death. Death becomes the answer to everything. So, if 91 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:42.439 you're pregnant, what we what we did? The Supreme Court just opened up 92 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:45.319 the door to know. Now abortion. You see how the devil came in 93 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:48.029 six thousand one hundred and sixty two, and we see and we see all 94 00:06:48.110 --> 00:06:50.790 of this stuff going on. Daniel, I'm going to have to shut this 95 00:06:50.949 --> 00:06:58.709 thing off. All Right, man, Devil's like incrementally and our podcast, 96 00:06:58.829 --> 00:07:00.579 well, I should you know better, I should know how to operate these 97 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:06.220 things, but as so, so we see how the devil is incrementally moving 98 00:07:06.300 --> 00:07:10.060 in. Yeah, and and so now, when people get pregnant, what 99 00:07:10.139 --> 00:07:12.740 you do, as you kill kids, and spreme court said that it was 100 00:07:12.779 --> 00:07:16.649 legal and it's okay. And so now we see God's Word is completely broken. 101 00:07:16.889 --> 00:07:20.050 And now a little baby boys and girls in their mother's wombs are no 102 00:07:20.209 --> 00:07:24.930 longer safe from anyone that wants to kill him. It's open season. And 103 00:07:25.209 --> 00:07:30.399 in and that companion case was do versus Bolton, which said now and opened 104 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.040 it up to all nine months, so you could kill a child in all 105 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:39.800 nine months, and and and and so what we have is this awful, 106 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:44.990 horrible thing that now over sixty million little baby boys and girls are dead. 107 00:07:45.110 --> 00:07:48.269 Today. One third of the generation forty seven years old and younger isn't here 108 00:07:48.310 --> 00:07:51.750 today. They've already been killed by abortion. And what does the devil do? 109 00:07:53.110 --> 00:07:57.230 He comes to rob to kill him, to destroy abortion before it's anything 110 00:07:57.269 --> 00:08:00.980 else. Is Pre eminently a gospel issue now, it were. It has 111 00:08:01.060 --> 00:08:07.060 ramifications in politics, but politics always follows what's going on spiritually. Well, 112 00:08:07.100 --> 00:08:11.740 our spiritual battle is this that this enemy is come to drop, to kill 113 00:08:11.740 --> 00:08:13.730 him, to destroy but Jesus has come that we might have life and have 114 00:08:13.810 --> 00:08:18.610 it more abundantly. And so what we're called to do is not to be 115 00:08:18.769 --> 00:08:24.250 the master of the state nor its slave. We are to be the conscience 116 00:08:24.329 --> 00:08:26.399 of the STIKA. And that's where we lose our way. Because, you 117 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:31.000 see, if you're going to get involved in the political argument of this and 118 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.559 try to do and solve this, this horrible thing that is devastating and savaging 119 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:39.919 our land, the murder of these children, if you're going to try to 120 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.909 do that politically, then politics is the art of compromise. Now, how 121 00:08:43.950 --> 00:08:46.389 do you think God feels about compromising his word? Yeah, well, of 122 00:08:46.470 --> 00:08:50.230 course we have in the word stick commands against compromising the truth of God. 123 00:08:50.389 --> 00:08:58.620 And when you love suffering under the subtle compromises of a liar Satan. Yeah, 124 00:08:58.620 --> 00:09:03.299 and so we've got ourselves convinced that if we will incrementally, another word, 125 00:09:03.539 --> 00:09:11.129 use Satan's method and will incrementally get in so and begin to work politically 126 00:09:11.450 --> 00:09:16.690 to solve this problem, what happens is we're going to have to compromise God's 127 00:09:16.690 --> 00:09:20.090 word. So we come up with pieces of legislation which are well intentioned and 128 00:09:20.529 --> 00:09:26.200 with really true motives to save babies. So we come up with things like, 129 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:33.240 all right, let's let's add the exceptions clause and yes to everything. 130 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:39.429 So, so, rape, incest, life of the mother. Yeah, 131 00:09:39.549 --> 00:09:43.590 that was the first pro life compromise. That was way back in the beginning 132 00:09:43.629 --> 00:09:46.350 and we were the ones that initiated it. So we so we basically saying, 133 00:09:46.389 --> 00:09:50.389 you know, so our goal. We when an abortion was unleashed by 134 00:09:50.429 --> 00:09:54.779 the Supreme Court on our nation, as as believers, believers rose up and 135 00:09:54.820 --> 00:09:58.019 say this is not right. But in rising up, instead of saying this 136 00:09:58.100 --> 00:10:01.779 is not right because God's word says it's not right, and it's not right 137 00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.580 at all. No exceptions, we decided we'd go ahead and throw some exceptions 138 00:10:05.620 --> 00:10:07.809 in there for you so there would be more acceptable to the world. Is 139 00:10:07.809 --> 00:10:11.169 that sort of the so that we could yes, so that we could protect 140 00:10:11.289 --> 00:10:15.970 life? Yeah, we so we put these exceptions on here. So, 141 00:10:16.210 --> 00:10:18.649 and the devil is willing to sign off on that. You'll sign any piece 142 00:10:18.769 --> 00:10:22.720 of pro life legislation that we've come up with. Yet every single one including 143 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:26.120 the hurt pop bill. Okay, he'll sign it. Yeah, this talk 144 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:33.039 a little bit about because you know when we're coming in earlier and coming down 145 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:37.070 here to start record, and we talked about the the Faustian wager and that 146 00:10:37.149 --> 00:10:41.830 sort of ties into that, that whole sort of compromise and almost like making 147 00:10:41.830 --> 00:10:43.470 a deal with the devil. So explain that a little bit, as it 148 00:10:43.549 --> 00:10:48.029 has to do with incrementalism and why that's a trap. And you know, 149 00:10:48.149 --> 00:10:52.419 some folks that are that are listening have no clue what we're even talking about. 150 00:10:52.419 --> 00:10:56.100 Maybe even don't even know about incrementalism or mediatism or any of that. 151 00:10:56.779 --> 00:11:00.820 But so the Faustian wager is may even more of a complex thing that it's 152 00:11:00.860 --> 00:11:03.059 pretty simple to understand. It is it's an old story about the devil, 153 00:11:03.139 --> 00:11:09.889 as sometimes named Mephistophilis or what. But it's the same argument. This incremental 154 00:11:09.929 --> 00:11:16.370 approach. This is mephistophilis WHO's coming to to deal with Dr Faust, and 155 00:11:16.409 --> 00:11:18.360 Dr Faust is going to sell his soul to the devil so that he can 156 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:24.559 have power and enlightenment. Okay, and and so mephistoft least really tries to 157 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:28.799 talk foulest out of it, but fils ultimately gives in to the devil's emissary. 158 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:31.679 Now, mephistoph least it's not the devil, just one of his little 159 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:37.190 minions, okay, that he's got operating. And so they make this wager. 160 00:11:37.629 --> 00:11:39.909 Well, I know. So here's my question. This is what I 161 00:11:39.950 --> 00:11:43.509 asked churches. I say, well, if Donald Trump, who's now president, 162 00:11:43.549 --> 00:11:46.700 would would say to you, listen, I will, as far as 163 00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:52.379 it's up to me, in the United States of America, make abortion illegal. 164 00:11:54.500 --> 00:11:58.940 Now, in Brownsville, Texas, there there were several little babies that 165 00:11:58.139 --> 00:12:01.330 died because they were born without brain stems or something like that. They were 166 00:12:01.409 --> 00:12:05.330 going to die there. We're going to live for only a couple of hours, 167 00:12:05.129 --> 00:12:09.169 you know, after the babies were born. And and that was going 168 00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:11.929 on down in Brownsville Texas, and this was back in one thousand nine hundred 169 00:12:11.929 --> 00:12:16.480 and ninety two and and he said this to you. He said this if, 170 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:20.919 if you will give me those two little babies or three little babies holiver, 171 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.120 many were born then that were born without friends brain stems, are only 172 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:26.399 going to be here for a short period of time. If you'll give me 173 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:28.360 those, I will, to the best of my ability. I am going 174 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.990 to stop abortion in this country. I'll make law, I'll do everything, 175 00:12:33.149 --> 00:12:37.710 I can, sign executive orders, whatever's necessary. The question then becomes, 176 00:12:37.950 --> 00:12:41.509 would you, Daniel Parks, make that deal? Yeah, so we're talking 177 00:12:43.110 --> 00:12:46.500 three babies that I would just say, okay, they're valuable, but I'm 178 00:12:46.500 --> 00:12:50.500 willing to compromise and say Yay, they can, they'll just unfortunately have to 179 00:12:50.620 --> 00:12:56.139 die and then potentially we can save so many thousands, hundreds of thousands of 180 00:12:56.179 --> 00:12:58.210 millions more. That's a yeah. But what you think of then that? 181 00:12:58.409 --> 00:13:01.210 What does your own flesh tell you? Yeah, I mean my flesh says, 182 00:13:01.289 --> 00:13:05.889 okay, it's maybe a good maybe a good trade. Say You did. 183 00:13:07.649 --> 00:13:09.730 I mean I would like to thank that my church because again, I'm 184 00:13:09.730 --> 00:13:13.600 going to look at this. My flesh certainly wants to rise up and take 185 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:16.000 over and make this decision, but I know what God's Word says and I 186 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.639 know ultimately that me making a wager with this, with the with the president 187 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:24.200 era, with the Supreme Court, is not what's going to end abortion. 188 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:26.230 It's going to be God. So I'm going to I'm going to appeal to 189 00:13:26.269 --> 00:13:30.429 the Lord and say it's not my choice to make. So you mean to 190 00:13:30.549 --> 00:13:33.070 tell me, and you would tell all those are the girls that are down 191 00:13:33.190 --> 00:13:37.350 to abortion mill right today. You would tell them all that I, Daniel 192 00:13:37.389 --> 00:13:41.070 Parks, and not going to make that deal and all the babies that are 193 00:13:41.149 --> 00:13:43.659 coming in here today could be saved. Yeah, yeah, I mean because, 194 00:13:43.659 --> 00:13:48.059 ultimately, again, I'm not leaning. You know, the Bible speaks 195 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:50.299 against leaning on the arm of deflation. Well, I think you put it 196 00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:54.139 in the hands of the Lord. Ultimately, right. Well, and you 197 00:13:54.620 --> 00:13:58.570 and you stand strong on God's word. I mean, it's not an easy 198 00:13:58.009 --> 00:14:01.330 it's not an easy question to answer. The answer. Would your wife, 199 00:14:01.409 --> 00:14:05.529 Courtney say? Yeah, I mean when she's I think. I would like 200 00:14:05.610 --> 00:14:07.850 to think she would let me lead in that area, as you would let 201 00:14:07.850 --> 00:14:11.919 me contain where the pants she might, but she say, Daniel, you're 202 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:13.960 a real idiot. That's yeah, no, I'm sure you. You can't 203 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.480 really do this. I meant to save millions. I mean, doesn't it 204 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:22.440 makes sense? It makes absolute perfect well, sir, I mean I guess 205 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:26.269 so. In my mind, I'm thinking number one, I don't trust the 206 00:14:26.350 --> 00:14:28.029 thing that Donald Trump says that he's going to be. Yeah, right, 207 00:14:28.070 --> 00:14:31.789 I mean, I don't trust politicians, I don't trust you know, make 208 00:14:31.789 --> 00:14:33.710 it. You could, let's say, let's say I could. Yeah, 209 00:14:33.710 --> 00:14:37.580 I think. I mean it bowls down to it's not my it's not my 210 00:14:37.700 --> 00:14:43.620 choice to determine whether or not someone leaves choishes. I mean to the mothers 211 00:14:43.899 --> 00:14:46.740 that are making the decision to have an abortion, it's their choice to kill 212 00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:50.899 their child's but whose choice is this decision? Did? Yeah, I'm I 213 00:14:50.980 --> 00:14:52.210 guess it. It's laid at my doorstep. Yeah, it's mine. And 214 00:14:52.330 --> 00:14:56.769 you would say no to that, right? I would say absolutely no. 215 00:14:56.009 --> 00:15:01.970 Just add it on us word and so every single person that you know, 216 00:15:01.330 --> 00:15:05.570 your friends, your mom and dad, probably, unless people really have thought 217 00:15:05.610 --> 00:15:11.480 this thing through theologically, would say you are an idiot. I mean even 218 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:15.120 think I'm anything. You can't. I mean ask Jason Janez. You had 219 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:16.919 him here. I'll tell you. I know what he's going to say. 220 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.590 Yeah, and it would probably surprise you. Maybe not, but but the 221 00:15:22.669 --> 00:15:26.190 fact of the matter is that asked David and Jason Donham. That okay, 222 00:15:26.429 --> 00:15:31.549 that's a good boy. They're hey, they should answer right there because because, 223 00:15:31.750 --> 00:15:37.220 I believe me this, when we understand the ramifications of this battle and 224 00:15:37.340 --> 00:15:39.580 how it will be fought and how it must be one. We cannot. 225 00:15:39.620 --> 00:15:43.580 We have got to trust in the Lord with all of our heart, not 226 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:46.899 trust our heart. Yeah, we're and we're not to follow our heart. 227 00:15:46.980 --> 00:15:48.700 Our hearts are going to lie to US, just like they're going to lie 228 00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:54.409 to probably everybody that's out there right now listening to you and me. They're 229 00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:58.490 saying, you take the deal. Yeah, the problem is, God never 230 00:15:58.889 --> 00:16:03.360 gave you the moral authority to make that deal. Yeah, that's his deal. 231 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.559 He is the one that determines. God never gave you that chip. 232 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:12.360 The chips all belong to him. We can't get in the place of God 233 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:15.759 to make that deal. The only thing that we can do is stand for 234 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:22.870 every single little baby, boy or girl, and those two little babies born 235 00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:26.990 without the brain stems in the Brownsville, Texas Irish passis and God site as 236 00:16:27.070 --> 00:16:30.710 a seven and a half billion people on this planet. Yeah, and we've 237 00:16:30.710 --> 00:16:34.259 got to begin to see things from his perspective. So then what do we 238 00:16:34.379 --> 00:16:37.539 do, God? Yeah, I mean, how how are you going to 239 00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:41.340 want us? You want us to how are we going to overcome this if 240 00:16:41.419 --> 00:16:45.620 we don't have that bargaining chip and we don't God? Just wondering. Trust 241 00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:49.289 into the Lord with all your heart, not trust your heart, not trust 242 00:16:49.330 --> 00:16:53.889 your got. Now the Hollywood mantras is follow your heart and not that. 243 00:16:55.450 --> 00:17:00.690 She said. It says trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean 244 00:17:00.929 --> 00:17:06.400 not on your own understanding. Yeah, our own understanding and reason is going 245 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:08.880 to take us right down there if we are not governed and run. There's 246 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:11.920 there is a way, scrub verbs, I think says two or three times. 247 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:15.160 There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end 248 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:17.910 of that way is death leads to that. So I mean one of the 249 00:17:17.990 --> 00:17:21.109 things that we're looking at is, you know, as I look at the 250 00:17:21.190 --> 00:17:25.269 issue of abortion, I look at it from from merely almost like a gospel 251 00:17:25.390 --> 00:17:30.980 preacher standpoint and not really the legislative or the whatever that's like. Man, 252 00:17:32.140 --> 00:17:36.460 what's the the end goal is the proclamation of the Gospel and that the Gospel 253 00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:40.619 takes root in a human heart, and that's ultimately abortion ends sort of de 254 00:17:40.779 --> 00:17:44.650 facto when the Gospel takes root in a society. That's sort of where I 255 00:17:44.730 --> 00:17:48.890 come from. But when I hear you know people and they make good arguments 256 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:52.329 and I hear you know about well this this legislation, heartbeat bills, or 257 00:17:53.009 --> 00:17:56.170 you know twenty week bands or whatever. It's like these are going to say 258 00:17:56.210 --> 00:18:00.799 babies. I don't really push against that because I'm like, well, if 259 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.279 it does, and praise God. I just don't I don't know from a 260 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:10.079 from a biblical standpoint. How do we, and how should we take a 261 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:17.430 stance against that sort of incrementalist mindset? What's the dangers of allowing that incrementalist 262 00:18:17.430 --> 00:18:22.390 mindset to continue without addressing it? And and what are sort of what's the 263 00:18:22.430 --> 00:18:26.660 alternative then? Well, we have an alternative. When Jesus was tempted, 264 00:18:27.819 --> 00:18:32.500 what did he use? The devil did all sorts of reasoning with him. 265 00:18:32.579 --> 00:18:36.859 You're hungry, turn these stones into bread. Yeah, and need and forty 266 00:18:36.859 --> 00:18:38.140 days. Sure, it makes sense. I mean, you know, and 267 00:18:38.380 --> 00:18:42.049 it's not going to these subtle compromises of a liar. You know, just 268 00:18:42.450 --> 00:18:45.250 if you really want to, you know, people to worship you, just 269 00:18:45.329 --> 00:18:48.289 show how strong you are, jump off the pinnacle of the temple. And 270 00:18:48.369 --> 00:18:53.130 yet and and you know what, they'll all worship you if you are the 271 00:18:53.210 --> 00:18:56.319 son of God. You you see, you hear the compromises. What was 272 00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:00.720 the one weapon that Jesus used? The word of gutsump him exactly. It 273 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:07.480 is written, remember, back in Genesis, chapter three versus one, and 274 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.190 to you see, did God really say yeah? And so what you're saying 275 00:19:11.269 --> 00:19:17.509 then, is that when we're doing, you know, our legislative kind of 276 00:19:17.630 --> 00:19:19.589 hurt, you know, making these different I don't say hurdles, but we're 277 00:19:19.630 --> 00:19:26.259 making these legislative moves and all of this stuff, is it ultimately we're compromising 278 00:19:26.420 --> 00:19:29.500 by saying, I'm I've heard you say it before, when we make bills 279 00:19:29.539 --> 00:19:33.019 and we leave exceptions in those bills, we're basically saying this, this and 280 00:19:33.099 --> 00:19:36.420 this and then you can kill the baby. And so you're saying that doing 281 00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:41.089 that is not standing on the word of God, that it's compromising God's word 282 00:19:41.089 --> 00:19:45.650 and it's making a deal ultimately with with truth. That because every single one 283 00:19:45.690 --> 00:19:52.210 of those pieces of legislation, as well intentioned as they are, with Dynamic 284 00:19:52.250 --> 00:19:56.119 Christians that are saying, yes, they just haven't thought this out, okay, 285 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:02.000 but but it's that caveat seven words and then you can kill the baby. 286 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:07.069 So parental consent. Well, would you sign this piece of legislation as 287 00:20:07.069 --> 00:20:12.109 a Christian, would God, have you signed this piece of legislation that when 288 00:20:12.150 --> 00:20:18.470 a parent consents to the murder of their grandchild or you know, yeah, 289 00:20:18.509 --> 00:20:26.940 if they consent to that or when or their child, then you can kill 290 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:30.500 the baby if they have a consent. Is that true? I mean that 291 00:20:30.980 --> 00:20:33.859 if they get the parents consent? Yeah, is it true that they can 292 00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:37.730 kill the baby? So that's okay then, well, it's it's not okay 293 00:20:37.769 --> 00:20:41.609 in God's life and in government. So white all right, so signing that 294 00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:44.769 pet even with that, I mean there's like, you know, you can 295 00:20:44.809 --> 00:20:47.849 get a young lady can get a waiver where she didn't have to have him. 296 00:20:48.049 --> 00:20:51.440 I absolutely she can do things. But but the fact of the matter 297 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:56.160 is that we spend a lot of time working to get parental consent and a 298 00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:00.240 lot of money in the pro life industry begins to get involved. The pro 299 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:04.549 life industry is God to show that it is accomplishing something so that we continue 300 00:21:04.589 --> 00:21:07.390 to get the funds coming in. Now, unfortunately, for a lot of 301 00:21:07.509 --> 00:21:14.349 pro life ministries, what happens is the modality that was birthed in sacrifice and 302 00:21:15.430 --> 00:21:19.700 filled with vision and mission to save babies becomes after a while, just like 303 00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:23.700 churches, just like us as we walk and Christian like, we become so 304 00:21:23.900 --> 00:21:29.819 daladies. You lose vision and mission and you get involved and I got to 305 00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:32.339 support this beast. Yeah, I got it, and so I build like 306 00:21:32.420 --> 00:21:36.009 a frank and church or Frankin Ministry, where I got to do this and 307 00:21:36.130 --> 00:21:38.730 we got to do that, because strategy has replaced truth. Yeah, and 308 00:21:38.930 --> 00:21:42.450 this is the devastating thing. We are moving God out of the equation and 309 00:21:42.569 --> 00:21:45.690 we're trying on our own. Trusting in the Lord with all your heart and 310 00:21:45.930 --> 00:21:51.799 lean not on your own understanding. Yeah, in all your ways, acknowledge 311 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:56.880 me and I will make your paths straight. God is made a promise. 312 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:02.670 I will do it. Trust me in this. Our duty is not to 313 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:07.190 compromise and strategize how to do this. Our duty is to love God first 314 00:22:07.509 --> 00:22:12.990 and love our neighbor as ourself. And our duty is to live out his 315 00:22:14.190 --> 00:22:18.500 word and allow the Theology of Heaven to become biography right in the streets another. 316 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.660 So let the word of God become flesh. Because how did Jesus save 317 00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:26.339 a wretch like me? He had to calm down into this pit to rescue 318 00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:30.930 me. Yeah, there was nothing that I could do. Are No strategy 319 00:22:30.009 --> 00:22:34.809 that I could develop to make myself to cover one of my sins. Only 320 00:22:36.089 --> 00:22:38.210 he could have done it, and he did it, and he's saying now, 321 00:22:38.930 --> 00:22:41.890 as I have loved you, I want you to go out and love. 322 00:22:42.049 --> 00:22:45.279 I want you to love others. I want you to love the world. 323 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.599 Is I have loved you so that they will see what love does. 324 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:56.440 Love never sits idly buy what little children are being killed? In six months, 325 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:00.269 right here in the city of Charlotte, we got three abortion mills and 326 00:23:00.470 --> 00:23:03.390 planned parenthood. It's waiting to do them, but can't thank God for the 327 00:23:03.470 --> 00:23:07.950 prayers of the saints that are stopping them from doing that. But in six 328 00:23:08.029 --> 00:23:12.539 months this whole abortion Holocaust in in the city of Charlotte. Now are we 329 00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:15.980 can stop all abortions? Of course not. You don't stop all sin either. 330 00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:19.420 What we are what we are looking to do, is to tell the 331 00:23:19.539 --> 00:23:23.380 truth so that the nation knows the truth about God, the truth about abortion, 332 00:23:23.420 --> 00:23:29.529 and that's our duty. We are the compass. We point true north. 333 00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:33.130 We don't ever compromise God's word. We stand on God's word. So 334 00:23:33.289 --> 00:23:37.809 is we allow that to become life every single day. Like those folks out 335 00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:41.400 there right now that are there pleading for the MOMS, they are living out 336 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.680 the truth. They are doing it. They're compromising nothing. Yeah, nothing. 337 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:48.640 And they're laying their lives down. That's what they're doing out there. 338 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.799 Yeah, if the church were to show go up in mass, if we 339 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:59.430 if we saw three rolds being taken into an abortion mill right thousand hundred and 340 00:23:59.430 --> 00:24:02.509 twenty Latrobe Avenue, right down the street, if we saw three year olds 341 00:24:02.549 --> 00:24:06.150 taken in, their Mama was taken a man they and Mama said, look 342 00:24:06.150 --> 00:24:08.349 at I can't raise the child. I'm I'm got college, I've got so 343 00:24:08.509 --> 00:24:11.700 many things that I'm not a good mom and so I'm going to take him 344 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:14.460 in. They're going to give him a little shop, put him to sleep, 345 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:18.180 nobody won't even know, and then another shot that will take him out, 346 00:24:18.259 --> 00:24:21.500 because I'm a bad mother and I know it and I admit it. 347 00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:26.009 What will we do if we saw that happening down there as a church? 348 00:24:26.049 --> 00:24:29.930 Yeah, we were, I mean you amountaintly different. We would be down 349 00:24:29.970 --> 00:24:33.450 there. Well, we've got three month old in the womb that are just 350 00:24:33.650 --> 00:24:37.089 as precious and fully human as that three year old child outside of the womb 351 00:24:37.529 --> 00:24:42.039 being taken in there. When you have eyes to see this, God says 352 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:47.480 love your neighbor as yourself. Yeah, what they've done to me, what 353 00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:49.279 you've done to the least of these, my brother, and you have done 354 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:52.910 it unto me. Yeah, another we're Jordan nailing Jesus to the cross again 355 00:24:52.990 --> 00:24:56.950 in if we in the church are going to sit back and say, well, 356 00:24:56.950 --> 00:25:00.309 I'm not called to that ministry. We got other ministries. We take 357 00:25:00.349 --> 00:25:03.789 care of the homeless. They're all wonderful. We've got cristis pregnancy centers over 358 00:25:03.829 --> 00:25:07.859 here and over there to help mom. It's like building a hospital next to 359 00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:11.380 a concentration camp. Yeah, come on that. They're people in the concentration 360 00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:15.539 camp and what they need is that someone to bring them healing right now. 361 00:25:15.619 --> 00:25:19.220 What they need is somebody to rescue them out of the concentration camp. Yeah, 362 00:25:19.460 --> 00:25:25.329 that's so so understand. The crisis pregnancy centers are wonderful, but you've 363 00:25:25.329 --> 00:25:29.009 got to have that. You can't have your front lines up crisis pregnancy center. 364 00:25:29.049 --> 00:25:32.730 Yeah, I mean any more than the marines will send Triaj in first. 365 00:25:33.009 --> 00:25:36.240 Yeah, the Marines have got to go in first and Triaj is back 366 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:40.000 there to take care of the guys who get wounded, going, going, 367 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:44.119 and so understand that when the church rises up and says see, because how 368 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:48.440 we fight the battle is determined by what we perceive the battle to be. 369 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:53.029 Yeah, and if they really are killing children there, and we really believe 370 00:25:53.150 --> 00:25:56.589 that, then what are we called to do? We are called to empty 371 00:25:56.710 --> 00:26:02.309 ourselves and lay our life down that that child might live, precisely what they're 372 00:26:02.349 --> 00:26:06.099 doing out at the abortion m yeah, but there are others that have said, 373 00:26:06.140 --> 00:26:08.099 well, what I'm going to do is, and this is how I 374 00:26:08.259 --> 00:26:11.700 started, you know, we're going to write letters to our congressman. Yes, 375 00:26:11.059 --> 00:26:14.259 what good is that going to do for the little baby boy or girl 376 00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:17.539 that's going in today if the latter doesn't get there for three days? And 377 00:26:17.660 --> 00:26:22.450 DC, plus the fact we're looking now to Washington DC to take care of 378 00:26:22.609 --> 00:26:29.289 this problem? Washington DC cannot. The gates of how will always prevailed against 379 00:26:29.410 --> 00:26:32.920 sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue and lot of twenty. The Gates of mail are at 380 00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:37.759 one thousand six hundred, is even newer. The Congress there there, they 381 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.880 can't fight. The only institution were damed by God to come against this enemy 382 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.519 is the Church of the Living God. And the problem is we don't know 383 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.750 that. We are not cleansed sort of one, since we sort of relegated 384 00:26:48.789 --> 00:26:56.390 our responsibility to the legislature into the one hundred Pennsylvania Avenue, and that's sort 385 00:26:56.390 --> 00:27:02.539 of want when I look at incremental steps to ending abortion. And and again 386 00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:06.500 I'm not always like stnicely opposed of those things, probably to a fault myself. 387 00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:08.180 It's just not my I don't know, just hadn't put a lot of 388 00:27:08.259 --> 00:27:12.579 thought to it, although I am recently doing so. But the biggest danger 389 00:27:12.700 --> 00:27:15.970 I see for the church is that when we pass, you know, a 390 00:27:17.049 --> 00:27:21.849 twenty week ban or, you know, the parental consent or even a heartbeat 391 00:27:21.890 --> 00:27:25.089 bill, that we think somehow that okay, we've won the battle, or 392 00:27:25.089 --> 00:27:29.170 if we won a battle. and to me that's the biggest dangers, that 393 00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:30.440 we can sit back and say, okay, we did our part, we 394 00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:33.720 voted, we had our people in place, you know, our politicians whatnot, 395 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:36.839 and we want to a battle. And you know, there's a lot 396 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:42.680 of celebration when these certain legislation is passed and the prolife organizations and even Christians 397 00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.789 are rejoicing and and all of that. and to me that's that's the danger. 398 00:27:45.869 --> 00:27:48.390 You know who we sit man? Who is won the battle? When 399 00:27:48.470 --> 00:27:53.069 we sit back? The devil exactly. He's one. Yeah, he and 400 00:27:53.549 --> 00:27:57.470 he wins every day that we don't deal with this. When I said that 401 00:27:57.579 --> 00:28:03.819 the church could end this in Charlotte in six months, I need to I 402 00:28:03.940 --> 00:28:07.539 need to just put put a statement in front of that, a statement that 403 00:28:07.819 --> 00:28:12.369 carries us through, that abortion will come to an end in America, in 404 00:28:12.529 --> 00:28:18.089 the city of Charlotte, when the Church of Jesus Christ makes up her mind, 405 00:28:18.329 --> 00:28:19.930 it will come to an end. And Yeah, one che and sooner. 406 00:28:21.650 --> 00:28:25.009 You see, we have a God and when we perceive this battle and 407 00:28:25.170 --> 00:28:29.440 see what it really is, when we see that they're actually living human beings 408 00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:32.960 that are going to be ripped apart. So don't tell me about your ministries 409 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:37.680 all over here. There isn't another place that I know of or that you 410 00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:40.960 know of in the city of Charlotte where people are actually being killed and you 411 00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:44.549 know they're going to be killed, then right here, that there's an immediacy 412 00:28:44.710 --> 00:28:48.150 here, that these these children need a voice. Yeah, if the Church 413 00:28:48.269 --> 00:28:52.470 would come out in mass, it's over. We just come out into what 414 00:28:52.670 --> 00:28:55.069 all? What are you supposed to do when you come out yet to have 415 00:28:55.349 --> 00:28:57.740 church in the street? Yeah. So, so we're going to have what 416 00:28:57.859 --> 00:29:02.660 in November sixteen? We're going to have four five thousand people out here, 417 00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:06.380 maybe more. Yeah, Melton the street. How long do you think abortions 418 00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:10.410 go to last? If, if everything did that day, if we got 419 00:29:10.490 --> 00:29:14.130 every single day, we got the praying, singing Church of Jesus Christ out 420 00:29:14.170 --> 00:29:18.890 here, all of a sudden everything changes. The police can't arrest enough people, 421 00:29:18.170 --> 00:29:22.250 you know, they can't terrify them, or they're going to have people 422 00:29:22.329 --> 00:29:25.400 in and then other Christians are going to come in, they're going to catch 423 00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:29.640 and see what happens. Is If will unloose that on Earth, God promises 424 00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:32.640 that I will loose it from heaven. Yeah, you know, I'm you, 425 00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:36.279 and so let's do it. Let's allow the theology of having let God 426 00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:41.509 win this victory. We are God's answer to this. The same thing happened 427 00:29:41.589 --> 00:29:45.430 with the issue of slavery. It was just a different colored glove. It 428 00:29:45.630 --> 00:29:48.750 was our black brothers and sisters, and the Supreme Court in one thousand eight 429 00:29:48.789 --> 00:29:52.299 hundred and fifty seven declared our black brothers and sisters not fully human. What 430 00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:56.299 we try to come up with all sorts of compromises, the three fifths law. 431 00:29:56.420 --> 00:30:00.140 What will make him three fists of a person? That was to appease 432 00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:03.380 the south, to keep them still a part of the union. So you 433 00:30:03.460 --> 00:30:07.019 could count the slaves as three fists of a vote, right, and so 434 00:30:07.410 --> 00:30:11.049 you all of these political compromises. Henry Clay, the great compromiser, couldn't 435 00:30:11.049 --> 00:30:18.009 fix this because the issue was never political. It had its manifestation there, 436 00:30:18.089 --> 00:30:22.759 but at the very heart of it it was a battle over who is Lord 437 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:27.079 and whose law's reign. If God is Lord, our black brothers and sisters 438 00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:32.640 are fully human, not three fists. So stop doing that, stop compromising 439 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:37.230 God's worth their five fists of a person. Yeah, one hundred percent. 440 00:30:37.509 --> 00:30:41.309 And and you know, Lincoln, when he became president, had no intention 441 00:30:41.950 --> 00:30:47.029 of ending slavery at all when he became president. Now, after two years 442 00:30:47.509 --> 00:30:52.819 of the presidency in the south seceding. Then it became apparent there was going 443 00:30:52.819 --> 00:30:55.859 to be a war. Yeah, and there was a war and six hundred 444 00:30:56.019 --> 00:31:00.619 thousand, six hundred thousand plus men died in the civil war. Six hundred 445 00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:03.769 thousand. That's more than I have died in all the wars since then. 446 00:31:04.170 --> 00:31:11.970 And Abraham Lincoln finally realized that God was dealing with the sin of slavery. 447 00:31:11.009 --> 00:31:15.210 Yeah, and and how did he come to that realization? Well, we 448 00:31:15.369 --> 00:31:18.319 had abolitionists. That's where you first get abolitionists. But some of the abolition 449 00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:22.960 just we're absolutely insane, John Brown being one. Yeah, I want you 450 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:25.920 to talk about that because you said something. We were talking about this yesterday 451 00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:29.279 and it was like, you know, it was profound to me, or 452 00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:30.039 at least I don't know. It was like, man, people need to 453 00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:33.509 hear this when we talked about because we talked about abolitionists, you know, 454 00:31:33.670 --> 00:31:40.869 the modern abortion abolitionist movement and the prolife movement in these different terms that we 455 00:31:40.950 --> 00:31:47.180 use, immediatist, incrementalist, abolitionist and prolife and whatever, which terms should 456 00:31:47.180 --> 00:31:48.259 we had plotter ourself, and you said something. I like, man, 457 00:31:48.339 --> 00:31:52.900 people need to hear this, that we don't come out here and do what 458 00:31:53.019 --> 00:31:56.579 we do is abolitionists. We don't do what we do in speaking up for 459 00:31:56.619 --> 00:32:01.410 these babies as prolifers. We do what we do. Ask Christians we are 460 00:32:01.450 --> 00:32:06.089 here, because not, we're, you know, part of some group or 461 00:32:06.130 --> 00:32:08.289 this or that, and you know God uses groups and all of that, 462 00:32:08.490 --> 00:32:14.210 but I'm saying primarily we come out here because we are Christians, because we 463 00:32:14.289 --> 00:32:20.759 are called to love our neighbor as ourselves. We don't compromise because we're Christians. 464 00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.119 We stand on God's truth, because we're Christians. And as to that 465 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:30.309 same point of the gates of hell do not prevail against the Church of Jesus 466 00:32:30.390 --> 00:32:32.470 Christ, Jesus didn't come and say, you know, on this rock I 467 00:32:32.509 --> 00:32:37.869 will build my prolife movement or I'll build my abolitionist, you know movement, 468 00:32:37.910 --> 00:32:43.069 or I'll build my you know, I meti immediateist movement or incrementalist movement. 469 00:32:43.150 --> 00:32:46.140 Note I will build my church. And that that point there. And if 470 00:32:46.180 --> 00:32:49.779 you can just kind of expound on that point a little bit, as far 471 00:32:49.819 --> 00:32:52.299 as the Church of Jesus Christ, you already have being the entity that God 472 00:32:52.420 --> 00:32:58.809 has called in us, operating with that as our modest operendom right our mode 473 00:32:58.849 --> 00:33:01.450 of operation is we are the church. Talk a little bit about that and 474 00:33:01.529 --> 00:33:06.289 kind of share with folks your heart on that. Well, I think you 475 00:33:06.410 --> 00:33:08.250 just said that perfect. Okay, I love to hear you how to write 476 00:33:08.250 --> 00:33:10.609 a book about I should write a book, I know, I mean, 477 00:33:10.730 --> 00:33:16.759 it's an except I am not an abolitionist and it wasn't abolitionism that overcame this 478 00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:22.000 whole issue of slavery. See if we could just remember history, which, 479 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:27.789 unfortunately we're in a spiritual Alzheimer's here. and point when you start forgetting your 480 00:33:27.829 --> 00:33:31.230 history? Well, Alzheimer's. Have you ever dealt with people those of him? 481 00:33:31.269 --> 00:33:35.230 I grand maybe's not from Alzheimer's. Yeahka, what? They lose who 482 00:33:35.309 --> 00:33:38.349 they are? Yeah, they lose all point and purpose. That's where America 483 00:33:38.430 --> 00:33:44.099 is where to spiritual Alzheimer's. We've forgotten who we are, why we're here, 484 00:33:44.420 --> 00:33:47.259 where we're going and who we represent. We forgotten all about what made 485 00:33:47.460 --> 00:33:51.539 America great in the first place. Yeah, you know, we want to 486 00:33:51.579 --> 00:33:53.180 make a great again, but how R? Yeah, what you can. 487 00:33:53.500 --> 00:33:58.730 You can't abandon God and leave him back there and expect him to bless America. 488 00:33:59.130 --> 00:34:01.609 You can't be killing over sixty million of his children and say God, 489 00:34:01.690 --> 00:34:07.250 bless America. Yeah, what he's saying. Repent America. If my people, 490 00:34:07.250 --> 00:34:09.840 who were called by my name, shall humble themselves in pray and seek 491 00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:15.000 my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven 492 00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:21.719 and I will forgive their sin and I will heal their land. I believe 493 00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:24.269 that all the way through the Bible. I see it, Old Testament, 494 00:34:24.429 --> 00:34:30.949 New Testament. When do we win? Everywhere in the Bible at all times. 495 00:34:30.989 --> 00:34:34.269 It's not the beginning of the book and the end of the book. 496 00:34:34.349 --> 00:34:37.550 We win. We went all the way through and you see the victories all 497 00:34:37.590 --> 00:34:40.579 the way through. Their small victories, but their victories nevertheless are small victories 498 00:34:40.619 --> 00:34:45.340 in my life, but their victories, nevertheless, they're small victories out there 499 00:34:45.460 --> 00:34:49.260 in the streets, when people show up in the name of Jesus to bring 500 00:34:49.300 --> 00:34:52.809 that what that does? We have the keys all authority and having another earth 501 00:34:52.929 --> 00:34:57.610 has been given me. Jesus said to his disciples, go there for me, 502 00:34:58.329 --> 00:35:01.849 disciples of all nations, potataw f Nay, all nations. You make 503 00:35:01.929 --> 00:35:06.929 disciples of all nation, teaching them to obey all that I've commanded you, 504 00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:09.320 and Lo, I will be with you to the end of the age. 505 00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:14.599 That's who we need. This is who's going to win the victory and it's 506 00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:17.559 going to happen every single day, in small victories every single day. But 507 00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:22.789 when you just look up in the political realm, that's the where the clean 508 00:35:22.349 --> 00:35:28.909 pro lifers are. They're clean. I mean it's a clean business and any 509 00:35:29.030 --> 00:35:30.949 and you do well and you get into green rooms and you get invited to 510 00:35:30.989 --> 00:35:35.190 speak, if you're up in Washington DC. You'll get him invited to speak 511 00:35:35.190 --> 00:35:38.460 to an all those talk shows. But the dirty pro lifers, you see, 512 00:35:38.500 --> 00:35:43.980 we serve a dirty savior. He came down here, he came down 513 00:35:44.019 --> 00:35:46.739 to the Cesspool, the mud, the blood, the beer, the grit, 514 00:35:47.019 --> 00:35:51.690 the filth, the bilge of my life. He did. He had 515 00:35:51.690 --> 00:35:54.489 to get into this cess pool to pull me out because there was no way 516 00:35:54.489 --> 00:35:57.849 out for me. You could to put a ladder down there and said climb 517 00:35:57.849 --> 00:36:00.250 out, but there was no ladder that there was going to get me out 518 00:36:00.250 --> 00:36:06.400 of there. I was I he had to come and he sinks into that 519 00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:08.360 to get me up. That's the savior that I serve. If he was 520 00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:15.079 wounded for my transgressions, bruise for my iniquities, the chastisement of my pieces 521 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.829 upon him and with his stripes, I am healed. Yeah, that's him. 522 00:36:19.150 --> 00:36:22.269 He's so this savior is that? When we go out to the streets, 523 00:36:22.989 --> 00:36:27.269 do you think? Do you hear people vilifying the people up in Washington 524 00:36:27.309 --> 00:36:32.659 DC coming up with all of these wonderful prolife bills and things like that? 525 00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:37.460 No, it's all clean. Yeah, well, premise, they're not. 526 00:36:37.059 --> 00:36:43.179 They come from along because the devil the same devil that's coming after us right 527 00:36:43.179 --> 00:36:45.059 now, you know, that puts us in jail, to gives us citations 528 00:36:45.099 --> 00:36:49.969 all the time, that files lawsuits against us, that builds walls, as 529 00:36:50.329 --> 00:36:52.849 if they can, to keep us from giving mom's a real choice. That, 530 00:36:53.050 --> 00:36:57.010 see, that's the dirty stuff. And we get pushed into a corner. 531 00:36:57.090 --> 00:36:59.929 We who are living out the gospel of Christ, get pushed into this 532 00:37:00.050 --> 00:37:05.320 corner of wild eyed fanatics when they don't understand that this is what our Lord 533 00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:07.559 did for us, and he was called every name that you could possibly imagine. 534 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:10.480 As a matter of fact, even the Religious Pharisees, who knew the 535 00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:16.110 Bible inside out, they hated him, even the Herodians, and that as 536 00:37:16.110 --> 00:37:21.630 a Sadducees, the Pharisees, they all came together. Yeah, and they 537 00:37:21.750 --> 00:37:24.150 hated each other, but they came together. I know you preach the message 538 00:37:24.150 --> 00:37:28.750 ones. I'm Jesus Unites His enemies and divides his friends. That's right, 539 00:37:28.829 --> 00:37:31.179 he's friends every single time and he will separate his friends. And, by 540 00:37:31.179 --> 00:37:34.260 the way, a lot of the people that were walking with you at one 541 00:37:34.300 --> 00:37:37.139 time saying love, and Daniel said, yeah, I think you. I 542 00:37:37.260 --> 00:37:39.579 think the cheese has done slid off the crack. Yeah, if you bring 543 00:37:39.619 --> 00:37:44.329 it out there screaming at all those people out there, you're not doing any 544 00:37:44.369 --> 00:37:46.170 goodest. Matter of fact, you're harm in the pro life movement. And 545 00:37:46.369 --> 00:37:50.090 and and, let me tell you, you're not harm in the pro life 546 00:37:50.130 --> 00:37:52.769 movement, in the folks that are out here. These are small victories. 547 00:37:52.809 --> 00:37:57.690 It's a thankless job the church. This doesn't benefit the church in any way. 548 00:37:57.730 --> 00:37:59.960 It doesn't get you members. As a matter of fact, they'll get 549 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.000 people to not want to come to your church if that's the way you're going 550 00:38:04.039 --> 00:38:07.599 to act out there in the streets. It's just the way it is. 551 00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:13.110 So we have to despise the shame, like our Savior Jesus did, and 552 00:38:13.269 --> 00:38:15.190 endure the cross. Yeah, he did, and our cross today. We 553 00:38:15.269 --> 00:38:20.349 got to deny ourselves. My flesh doesn't want to be out here all the 554 00:38:20.429 --> 00:38:23.829 time listening to this stuff and then getting chastised by the church. Yeah, 555 00:38:23.829 --> 00:38:27.340 and I when I come back, you know, I come back to church 556 00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:30.980 and it's like I got my tail between my legs. You know, the 557 00:38:30.019 --> 00:38:34.139 other day I was right down the road, as actually right into the abortion 558 00:38:34.219 --> 00:38:36.820 mail here on the tribe, and I was at a stopped light and I 559 00:38:36.940 --> 00:38:39.699 was just thinking about, you know, some false accusations the police have brought 560 00:38:39.699 --> 00:38:44.289 against us, a city council. They paint us as these radical, you 561 00:38:44.369 --> 00:38:49.010 know, right wing whatever, and even some well meaning Christians that have some 562 00:38:49.130 --> 00:38:51.889 criticisms what we do, which you I don't. I don't share criticism, 563 00:38:51.969 --> 00:38:52.929 but if it's not found in the word, I don't want to hear it, 564 00:38:53.050 --> 00:38:55.079 you know. And I was like, I was just praying. I 565 00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:58.440 was like, Lord, you know what, I'm tired of getting falsely accused. 566 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:00.960 And this is like almost as clear as I've heard the Lord speak to 567 00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:04.440 my heart. It's like the Holy Spirit spoken. Said, yeah, I 568 00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:07.320 know what you mean. I was like, you know what, Lord, 569 00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:10.150 you're worse. You're right, you're right. You kind of did get falsely 570 00:39:10.190 --> 00:39:14.349 accused, didn't you? Sound like sorry, Lord, Give Me Grace and 571 00:39:14.429 --> 00:39:15.869 I'll bear under this. But yes, that's the way he did it. 572 00:39:16.030 --> 00:39:20.349 Yeah, and he died and it appeared to the world that he was losing 573 00:39:20.389 --> 00:39:22.230 it. It probably appeared, yeah, devil to the devil, that he 574 00:39:22.269 --> 00:39:24.820 would I finally I've got him, I've shot him up. But what he 575 00:39:24.940 --> 00:39:30.260 didn't understand what the angels and heaven didn't even know how God was going to 576 00:39:30.380 --> 00:39:35.820 operate that now, as soon as he died and he ascended into heaven and 577 00:39:35.940 --> 00:39:39.090 that Holy Spirit came down, now he had Jesus everywhere ever, the fly 578 00:39:39.369 --> 00:39:44.889 right inside of their hearts, just and that's where revival comes from. So 579 00:39:45.329 --> 00:39:47.929 what what do we need to do? Where are we at right now? 580 00:39:49.090 --> 00:39:52.809 And the fact of the matter is we're at at point where we've got to 581 00:39:52.849 --> 00:39:57.639 say, well, let's just remember history and go back. Do you know 582 00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:01.239 when Dread Scott Decision, one thousand eight hundred and fifty seven that we just 583 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:07.150 talked about, that that called our black brothers and sisters property in the slave 584 00:40:07.190 --> 00:40:10.269 owners? Do you know when that was overturned? I do not know. 585 00:40:10.869 --> 00:40:15.150 It never was okay by the Supreme Court. Now we have the thirteen, 586 00:40:15.190 --> 00:40:19.269 four, fourteen to fifteen amendments. Yeah, the took care of that, 587 00:40:19.389 --> 00:40:22.860 but there had to be a bloody civil war that was fought and it was 588 00:40:22.980 --> 00:40:27.780 the church rising up. It was the church that came without almost a hundred 589 00:40:28.860 --> 00:40:36.730 yard long scroll, a pastor saying, Mr President, you must sign this 590 00:40:36.929 --> 00:40:44.250 emancipation proclamation declaring our black brothers and sisters fully human. Yeah, that this 591 00:40:44.449 --> 00:40:49.369 nation has to take that stand as soon as that thing was signed. Now, 592 00:40:49.409 --> 00:40:54.199 it was initially signed but not ratified. It was initially signed in September 593 00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:59.000 of one thousand eighteen and sixty three, one thousand and eighteen and sixty two, 594 00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:05.230 but it was officially signed on January fee one eighteen sixty three. It 595 00:41:05.469 --> 00:41:12.590 was at that point that the whole the whole battle turned and and the Union 596 00:41:12.710 --> 00:41:16.190 forces, because God had given the south all the best generals. Okay, 597 00:41:16.230 --> 00:41:21.500 they could out general any of the generals in the north, but the north 598 00:41:21.699 --> 00:41:25.820 had all of the resources and supplies when that thing was signed. That's a 599 00:41:25.940 --> 00:41:31.059 national repentance of the killer of the bondage, that we were dealing with, 600 00:41:31.139 --> 00:41:36.690 a sin of slavery. Yeah, after that was signed, we began to 601 00:41:36.769 --> 00:41:39.050 win. The North Begin to win the battles and the and the fought the 602 00:41:39.170 --> 00:41:45.809 fight. The battle was one. Yeah, what? But Abraham Lincoln in 603 00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:50.480 his second inaugural address, which is written in the halls of the Lincoln Memorial, 604 00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:54.960 that second he said that it is and Lincoln finally came to this realization 605 00:41:55.239 --> 00:42:01.710 that it was the sin of slavery, that that every drop of blood that 606 00:42:01.909 --> 00:42:07.349 was shed by the Slat, by the whip of the master, would be 607 00:42:07.510 --> 00:42:14.110 required of us on the battle fields because of the sin of slavery. And 608 00:42:14.269 --> 00:42:19.059 now God began to bring healing to this nation. Yeah, he forgave our 609 00:42:19.059 --> 00:42:21.739 sin, but we had to confess that that was a sin. Yeah, 610 00:42:21.780 --> 00:42:24.219 we had a confessor when it and it happened not in the halls of Congress 611 00:42:24.380 --> 00:42:30.369 or in the Senate or in the Supreme Court or in one thousand six hundreds 612 00:42:30.409 --> 00:42:34.369 of Pennsylvania Avenue. It happened in the Church of Jesus Christ. It did. 613 00:42:35.010 --> 00:42:38.170 And is is it like? You know, the Scripture says judgment begins 614 00:42:38.210 --> 00:42:42.530 at the House of the Lord and then you sort of contide it together. 615 00:42:42.610 --> 00:42:46.639 Paul says in the Police Search Scrinthians, chapter ten or eleven, where he 616 00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:50.840 says unless you judge yourself, you'll be judged of God. So it's like 617 00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:57.519 the church judged itself, repented second chronicles fourteen, and then the healing came 618 00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:00.789 and led the nation in repentance. Yeah, the words. It's got to 619 00:43:00.869 --> 00:43:02.949 begin in the House of God. So where's the House of God right now? 620 00:43:02.989 --> 00:43:07.949 Well, we got lights, we got smoke and fall and are that. 621 00:43:08.190 --> 00:43:12.940 We got it all. We got it all and still there are three 622 00:43:14.059 --> 00:43:19.139 freestanding abortion mill in the city killing children. Yeah, we're growing our churches, 623 00:43:19.739 --> 00:43:22.820 but we know that this is happening in God us saying, where are 624 00:43:23.019 --> 00:43:30.570 you? You see, tolerance sits back and does nothing. Love gets involved 625 00:43:30.690 --> 00:43:36.409 and does something. Love can't sing city back. You don't tolerate something that's 626 00:43:36.449 --> 00:43:40.250 wrong, that's going on. So Biblical love maybe looks a lot different than 627 00:43:40.329 --> 00:43:44.760 this world. The stuff that we talked about in this world is to L 628 00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:49.960 U V yeah, the real stuff. It's just the sugar where the salt 629 00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:53.119 of the earth and we have been stuck in this salt Shaker and we're enjoying 630 00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:57.750 the fellowship in there, the holy hotels that we have, but we're not 631 00:43:58.030 --> 00:44:02.909 out here in the streets. And that's because we're comfortable. Yeah, we 632 00:44:02.989 --> 00:44:07.349 are, and we're comfortable and we're really comfortable with blaming the Republicans for doing 633 00:44:07.429 --> 00:44:12.980 something. We're really comfortable with blaming trump or blaming anybody else in the world. 634 00:44:13.059 --> 00:44:15.659 End Damns, you're good. Yeah, I mean we're doing what we 635 00:44:15.699 --> 00:44:22.179 can't. So what you see is you see the single entity most responsible for 636 00:44:22.219 --> 00:44:28.369 the abortion Holocaust in this land is not planned parenthood or Margaret Singer. It's 637 00:44:28.489 --> 00:44:32.570 not the ACLU, it's not an after National Abortion Federation. It isn't any 638 00:44:32.690 --> 00:44:37.130 of those things. It's not our sorry public education, it isn't any of 639 00:44:37.210 --> 00:44:42.079 those things. The one most responsible for what is happening in America today, 640 00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:46.280 in the city of Charlotte today, is is the one who really thinks it's 641 00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:51.039 doing the most to solve the problem. Yeah, which is the Church of 642 00:44:51.079 --> 00:44:55.150 Jesus Christ. Well, we are pathotic in God's side. We aren't out 643 00:44:55.269 --> 00:45:00.710 there. If the church had a call and said, look, if you 644 00:45:00.989 --> 00:45:06.949 don't come out to these abortion mills, I'm going to take every public error, 645 00:45:06.989 --> 00:45:10.420 every private education stuff, I'm going to take all of your goodies away 646 00:45:10.420 --> 00:45:15.699 from you, all your buildings, everything, your smoke machines, your everything 647 00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:20.260 is going. Your your book deals, everything is out. Do you think 648 00:45:20.300 --> 00:45:22.329 the church might show up at these places? I say now, either take 649 00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:25.489 care of this or it's all gone. Yeah, well, let me just 650 00:45:25.650 --> 00:45:29.849 tell you. That's it. We love our stuff and we don't know it. 651 00:45:30.289 --> 00:45:34.250 We can see everybody else that's at fault except ourselves. So we are 652 00:45:34.329 --> 00:45:37.159 not on the verge of repentance. And if there's not going to be repentance, 653 00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:44.119 then there is I don't care what kind of strategy you have. God 654 00:45:44.199 --> 00:45:47.000 has one strategy. It's repentance. Stand on my word. Well, how 655 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.309 am I going to do this? Don't worry about your strategy, I'll take 656 00:45:50.309 --> 00:45:52.590 care of that. Don't lean on your own understanding. I'll take care of 657 00:45:52.670 --> 00:45:55.349 everything. You just trust me. you go out and live and you love 658 00:45:55.429 --> 00:46:00.269 your neighbors, yourself, trying to imagine your own son or daughter there and 659 00:46:00.389 --> 00:46:04.500 it was going to be taken away to death. Begin to live like that 660 00:46:05.139 --> 00:46:08.460 and what that will do is it will when repentance begins in the church, 661 00:46:08.699 --> 00:46:14.099 it begins to move all over everything and then ultimately you will see laws change, 662 00:46:14.500 --> 00:46:17.539 but it's from the inside out. It's from the bottom up and not 663 00:46:17.769 --> 00:46:21.010 from the top down. We're up at the top. You know, we 664 00:46:21.130 --> 00:46:23.250 got the president, so I'll fix it. Yeah, it couldn't work. 665 00:46:23.449 --> 00:46:28.489 You can't do it. Yeah, that's a good word. Well, and 666 00:46:28.570 --> 00:46:31.449 just in wrapping this thing up, because we've gone almost forty five minutes, 667 00:46:31.610 --> 00:46:35.159 I think, you know, we've touched on a lot. You know, 668 00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:37.800 I want to encourage folks to you know, you can come, certainly come 669 00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:42.440 in volunteer with US cities for life if you're in Charlotte, but if you're 670 00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:45.400 you know around the country and you're stirred to action because, listen, they're 671 00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:50.510 like what seven hundred abortion meals across this country. Thankfully the number has as 672 00:46:51.030 --> 00:46:54.670 decline for various reasons, but in the main reason is that people are showing 673 00:46:54.670 --> 00:46:58.550 up to those abortions and seeing baby saved. If your burden to do that. 674 00:46:59.070 --> 00:47:04.179 We have a website, sidewalks for lifecom sidewalks on number four, where 675 00:47:04.179 --> 00:47:07.380 we're focusing on how to bring the Gospel to the abortion clinic, because one 676 00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:09.380 of the traps is is one of the reasons why we started this podcast, 677 00:47:10.099 --> 00:47:14.340 and this is, you know, as Christians, it love Jesus, one 678 00:47:14.380 --> 00:47:16.969 of the chaps will fall into. It's compromising the word of God to be 679 00:47:17.130 --> 00:47:23.050 more effective, letting strategy overtake truth, and and so one of our heart 680 00:47:23.530 --> 00:47:28.289 kind of our focus with this podcast is to infiltrate the pro life movement with 681 00:47:28.530 --> 00:47:31.800 the necessity of the Gospel. And that's what that website, sidewalks for life, 682 00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:34.880 talks about, how to bring the Gospel. Yeah, I mean we 683 00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:37.360 we medical facts. Medical facts are on our side, science is on our 684 00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:40.360 side. You know, it resources and stuff. We bring that kind of 685 00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:44.309 thing. You know, the ultrasound. The power of ultrasound is is, 686 00:47:44.829 --> 00:47:46.710 is great, but it does not match the power of the Gospel. We 687 00:47:46.869 --> 00:47:51.150 have to bring the Gospel to the abortion clinics, we have to bring the 688 00:47:51.190 --> 00:47:54.110 Gospel to the to the legislators, to and and hold these legislators accountable. 689 00:47:54.110 --> 00:47:58.389 That the reason why we're opposed to abortion. It's not just because it's bad 690 00:47:58.469 --> 00:48:01.579 for women or it's bad for society, it's because God's words says that it's 691 00:48:01.579 --> 00:48:06.579 murder and that we as a people cannot stand by while murder takes place and 692 00:48:06.739 --> 00:48:09.380 do nothing, and it legislators can't stand by and do nothing. So I 693 00:48:09.420 --> 00:48:13.769 want to encourage you guys with that and encourage you guys to share this podcast 694 00:48:14.210 --> 00:48:16.489 and just give us some feedback if you have ideas for future podcast. And 695 00:48:16.650 --> 00:48:20.730 I'd like to have flip back on and talk a little bit about sort of 696 00:48:20.769 --> 00:48:22.409 the history of the pro life moving at some point, because he's been involved 697 00:48:22.449 --> 00:48:27.440 for thirty plus years, longer than some of you been alive. I must 698 00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.199 learner that, but it's got he's got some wisdom that I think he can 699 00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:32.960 he can really share any has shared today. So I appreciate you coming and 700 00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:38.360 sharing appreciate all those who listen and hope that you're blessed by this podcast. 701 00:48:38.599 --> 00:49:02.699 God bless use, mel use, give me, give me. Will cost 702 00:49:02.860 --> 00:49:10.010 me my life, but not things. TWO PRECIOUS INSIDE