The Danger of Incrementalism in the Battle to End Abortion

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:06.440I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Send Me Lord.200:00:06.919 --> 00:00:10.910I am welcome to the Gospel Centerpro life podcast and this episode we're300:00:10.910 --> 00:00:13.789going to talk with the pioneer fromthe pro life movement, Flip Benham,400:00:14.109 --> 00:00:18.429about the problem of incrementalism and tryingto end abortion. This is an important500:00:18.429 --> 00:00:29.059topic, so please stick with us. I felt show passis touch your heart.600:00:35.969 --> 00:00:38.609All right. Well, welcome tothe Gospel Center pro life podcast.700:00:38.810 --> 00:00:43.490Have with me today Flip Benham,who is a pioneer in Pro Life Ministry800:00:43.609 --> 00:00:48.770and just Gospel Preaching, and Iwanted him to come and talk about sort900:00:48.810 --> 00:00:51.640of the controversy, I guess,has been in the pro life movement,1000:00:51.759 --> 00:00:58.079even modern abolitionist movement, thing aboutincrementalism and immediatism, these sort of terms1100:00:58.119 --> 00:01:02.000that maybe some people that are listeningor watching have no clue what these even1200:01:02.039 --> 00:01:06.189mean. So let's first define thoseterms. What is immediatism and what is1300:01:06.230 --> 00:01:10.430incrementalism? Maybe start with income incrementalismfirst, if you if you will.1400:01:10.469 --> 00:01:14.670INCREMENTALISM is simply you'll find it ingenesis chapter one and chat, and I1500:01:14.750 --> 00:01:17.750excuse me, a genesis chapter threeis where you really see it, where1600:01:17.750 --> 00:01:22.739the serpent comes up in to temptAdam, but he's going to get to1700:01:23.340 --> 00:01:26.060Adam through eve, okay, andso Adams sits back. That's what men1800:01:26.140 --> 00:01:33.810do. And let's Eve. Godhad given specific instructions to to Adam not1900:01:34.129 --> 00:01:37.769to eat of the tree of theknowledge of good and evil. Yeah,2000:01:38.170 --> 00:01:42.609and Adam understood it and it wasAdam's duty to tell that to eve.2100:01:42.969 --> 00:01:48.079But as eve gets close to thistree of the knowledge of good and evil,2200:01:49.239 --> 00:01:53.840there is a serpent and that serpentbegins right off the bat. And2300:01:55.040 --> 00:01:59.920Genesis chapter three, verse one.Did God really say? Yeah, incrementally2400:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.549begins to break down. Dick out. Really say that? Does he really2500:02:04.629 --> 00:02:08.909mean that? And he and that'show he breaks into a city, that's2600:02:08.990 --> 00:02:14.710how he breaks into a person,that's how he breaks into a nation.2700:02:14.990 --> 00:02:21.460Incremental steps, he slithers and hedislike a python. He can almost hit2800:02:21.620 --> 00:02:27.340that python almost hypnotizes if you've everseen that a national geographic movie where you've2900:02:27.340 --> 00:02:31.090got a python on a tree anda monkey sitting there going when pointing in,3000:02:31.610 --> 00:02:36.409and yet the monkey doesn't move andthe python out. This is over3100:02:36.449 --> 00:02:39.770a period of time and and andthe python just slowly but surely, and3200:02:39.849 --> 00:02:45.120then he gets around the monkey andhe kills the Monkey East. The monkey3300:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.919had could have gotten away a bazilliontimes, but didn't because this python got3400:02:50.120 --> 00:02:53.000and just and just slowly took himout. No, if you get a3500:02:53.120 --> 00:02:57.000man goose and you put him witha python, there's a whole different story.3600:02:57.080 --> 00:02:59.629That Mon Goose is going out tokill that snake. That's it.3700:02:59.830 --> 00:03:01.949That's just the way it is.That's the battle. Adam should have been3800:03:01.990 --> 00:03:06.990there. He knew, he knewthat she was not to eat. So3900:03:07.629 --> 00:03:12.069show he incrementally takes things away fromus. So that's how do we go4000:03:12.189 --> 00:03:17.379when we're talking about the issue ofabortion and we're talking about incrementalism, sort4100:03:17.419 --> 00:03:20.740of what you're saying is, andI think this is what people need to4200:03:20.819 --> 00:03:27.210get, is that an incremental approachto ending abortion as almost using the devil's4300:03:27.250 --> 00:03:30.849tactics, like it's devil coasically.Okay, that using the tactics of the4400:03:30.969 --> 00:03:37.090devil rather than God's word. Okay, and so that's, of course,4500:03:37.210 --> 00:03:39.210you know, Gospel Center pro life, that the focus of this podcast is,4600:03:39.689 --> 00:03:43.400you know, talking about pro lifestuff, talking about abortion and light4700:03:43.479 --> 00:03:46.439of the Gospel, the truth ofGod's word, the impact that God's word4800:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.400has on a human heart rather thanour you know, even medical facts,4900:03:50.479 --> 00:03:53.080all this stuff, that stuff thatcan be good. It's ultimate. It's5000:03:53.120 --> 00:03:55.949God's word that changes the heart.And and what you're saying is it's God's5100:03:55.990 --> 00:04:00.430word that wins this battle. It'sGod's it's obedience to what God is saying5200:04:00.629 --> 00:04:05.310is word. So walk through kindof how that works and how Christians can5300:04:05.430 --> 00:04:09.110sort of fall for that trap.As far as incrementalism, mean, you5400:04:09.270 --> 00:04:12.580just practically speaking, had a conversationwith the Christian this morning about, you5500:04:12.659 --> 00:04:17.019know, is it a bad thingthat legislation is passed that will limit abortions5600:04:17.019 --> 00:04:20.300at a certain you know, ata certain stage? And in my mind5700:04:20.339 --> 00:04:24.259I'm thinking it's not a bad Imean, if a baby saved because they5800:04:24.290 --> 00:04:27.490pass some incremental thing, I don'tput it a whole lot of thought of5900:04:27.529 --> 00:04:30.769this. This of a evn't anytoo and in anyway. So it's so6000:04:30.889 --> 00:04:33.930sort of correct and understanding. Andwell, let me just go back now.6100:04:34.050 --> 00:04:40.879So I we're talking about to peopleand to and two nations. This6200:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.399is how the devil works. Hedoesn't change. Ever, this is what6300:04:44.519 --> 00:04:46.920he does. Slowly but surely,he begins to suck you and he begins6400:04:46.959 --> 00:04:51.160to break down and he starts alwayswith did God really say? He tells6500:04:51.279 --> 00:04:57.310this book into question. So andone, nineteen sixty two we had a6600:04:57.310 --> 00:05:00.750supreme court decision. I'll just giveyou some Supreme Court decission. Nineteen Sixty6700:05:00.750 --> 00:05:05.149two supreme court decision called angle versusfatal and angle versus fatalel it removed prayer6800:05:05.310 --> 00:05:12.459from school, slowly but surely.In nineteen sixty three there was another supreme6900:05:12.500 --> 00:05:18.500court case called Abington versus Shimp andin that one they removed Bible reading from7000:05:18.540 --> 00:05:25.129school. Well, so you removeGod from school, you see, slowly7100:05:25.250 --> 00:05:27.490but sure. Yeah, we don'tdo it right away. Yeah, that7200:05:27.610 --> 00:05:30.610devil doesn't show up with horns anda pitchfork and a red you know.7300:05:30.970 --> 00:05:33.649Yeah, he's just incrementally saying,though, these things are right, because7400:05:33.769 --> 00:05:38.720isn't there a separation between Church andstate? And and uses that argument.7500:05:39.199 --> 00:05:42.240Did God really say? So,let's just keep that out of the public7600:05:42.279 --> 00:05:46.199school. Well, when you removeGod from the Public School, when he's7700:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.069expelled from school, banished from theschoolyard, he's replaced with all sorts of7800:05:50.189 --> 00:05:55.470other things, and so we getthis whole breakdown of morals and then we7900:05:55.750 --> 00:05:59.470now we're into the S and we'reinto free sex, were into everything else8000:05:59.509 --> 00:06:03.379that you could possibly imagine. AndI'm Januaries twenty two, one thousand nine8100:06:03.379 --> 00:06:08.019hundred and seventy three. The SupremeCourt comes up with another decision called roll8200:06:08.060 --> 00:06:10.980versus Wade. Roll versus Wade says, well, look, if you're having8300:06:11.019 --> 00:06:13.620sex like this and you, ifyou're having sex like animals, are going8400:06:13.620 --> 00:06:16.740to have sex with anything that's warm, then what's going to happen? Well,8500:06:16.779 --> 00:06:19.050you're probably going to get some babies. I don't care what kind of8600:06:19.089 --> 00:06:23.769contraceptive you use, they're probably goingto be babies produced, and indeed there8700:06:23.850 --> 00:06:27.649were. So how do we solvethis problem? Well, it tells us8800:06:27.769 --> 00:06:30.050in the Bible that all who hateme love death. Yeah, that's what8900:06:30.170 --> 00:06:33.040it says in proverbs, Chapter Eight, verse Thirty Six. But all who9000:06:33.120 --> 00:06:38.000hate me love death. Death becomesthe answer to everything. So, if9100:06:38.160 --> 00:06:42.439you're pregnant, what we what wedid? The Supreme Court just opened up9200:06:42.439 --> 00:06:45.319the door to know. Now abortion. You see how the devil came in9300:06:45.519 --> 00:06:48.029six thousand one hundred and sixty two, and we see and we see all9400:06:48.110 --> 00:06:50.790of this stuff going on. Daniel, I'm going to have to shut this9500:06:50.949 --> 00:06:58.709thing off. All Right, man, Devil's like incrementally and our podcast,9600:06:58.829 --> 00:07:00.579well, I should you know better, I should know how to operate these9700:07:00.660 --> 00:07:06.220things, but as so, sowe see how the devil is incrementally moving9800:07:06.300 --> 00:07:10.060in. Yeah, and and sonow, when people get pregnant, what9900:07:10.139 --> 00:07:12.740you do, as you kill kids, and spreme court said that it was10000:07:12.779 --> 00:07:16.649legal and it's okay. And sonow we see God's Word is completely broken.10100:07:16.889 --> 00:07:20.050And now a little baby boys andgirls in their mother's wombs are no10200:07:20.209 --> 00:07:24.930longer safe from anyone that wants tokill him. It's open season. And10300:07:25.209 --> 00:07:30.399in and that companion case was doversus Bolton, which said now and opened10400:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.040it up to all nine months,so you could kill a child in all10500:07:33.240 --> 00:07:39.800nine months, and and and andso what we have is this awful,10600:07:40.000 --> 00:07:44.990horrible thing that now over sixty millionlittle baby boys and girls are dead.10700:07:45.110 --> 00:07:48.269Today. One third of the generationforty seven years old and younger isn't here10800:07:48.310 --> 00:07:51.750today. They've already been killed byabortion. And what does the devil do?10900:07:53.110 --> 00:07:57.230He comes to rob to kill him, to destroy abortion before it's anything11000:07:57.269 --> 00:08:00.980else. Is Pre eminently a gospelissue now, it were. It has11100:08:01.060 --> 00:08:07.060ramifications in politics, but politics alwaysfollows what's going on spiritually. Well,11200:08:07.100 --> 00:08:11.740our spiritual battle is this that thisenemy is come to drop, to kill11300:08:11.740 --> 00:08:13.730him, to destroy but Jesus hascome that we might have life and have11400:08:13.810 --> 00:08:18.610it more abundantly. And so whatwe're called to do is not to be11500:08:18.769 --> 00:08:24.250the master of the state nor itsslave. We are to be the conscience11600:08:24.329 --> 00:08:26.399of the STIKA. And that's wherewe lose our way. Because, you11700:08:26.480 --> 00:08:31.000see, if you're going to getinvolved in the political argument of this and11800:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.559try to do and solve this,this horrible thing that is devastating and savaging11900:08:35.639 --> 00:08:39.919our land, the murder of thesechildren, if you're going to try to12000:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.909do that politically, then politics isthe art of compromise. Now, how12100:08:43.950 --> 00:08:46.389do you think God feels about compromisinghis word? Yeah, well, of12200:08:46.470 --> 00:08:50.230course we have in the word stickcommands against compromising the truth of God.12300:08:50.389 --> 00:08:58.620And when you love suffering under thesubtle compromises of a liar Satan. Yeah,12400:08:58.620 --> 00:09:03.299and so we've got ourselves convinced thatif we will incrementally, another word,12500:09:03.539 --> 00:09:11.129use Satan's method and will incrementally getin so and begin to work politically12600:09:11.450 --> 00:09:16.690to solve this problem, what happensis we're going to have to compromise God's12700:09:16.690 --> 00:09:20.090word. So we come up withpieces of legislation which are well intentioned and12800:09:20.529 --> 00:09:26.200with really true motives to save babies. So we come up with things like,12900:09:26.440 --> 00:09:33.240all right, let's let's add theexceptions clause and yes to everything.13000:09:33.360 --> 00:09:39.429So, so, rape, incest, life of the mother. Yeah,13100:09:39.549 --> 00:09:43.590that was the first pro life compromise. That was way back in the beginning13200:09:43.629 --> 00:09:46.350and we were the ones that initiatedit. So we so we basically saying,13300:09:46.389 --> 00:09:50.389you know, so our goal.We when an abortion was unleashed by13400:09:50.429 --> 00:09:54.779the Supreme Court on our nation,as as believers, believers rose up and13500:09:54.820 --> 00:09:58.019say this is not right. Butin rising up, instead of saying this13600:09:58.100 --> 00:10:01.779is not right because God's word saysit's not right, and it's not right13700:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.580at all. No exceptions, wedecided we'd go ahead and throw some exceptions13800:10:05.620 --> 00:10:07.809in there for you so there wouldbe more acceptable to the world. Is13900:10:07.809 --> 00:10:11.169that sort of the so that wecould yes, so that we could protect14000:10:11.289 --> 00:10:15.970life? Yeah, we so weput these exceptions on here. So,14100:10:16.210 --> 00:10:18.649and the devil is willing to signoff on that. You'll sign any piece14200:10:18.769 --> 00:10:22.720of pro life legislation that we've comeup with. Yet every single one including14300:10:22.759 --> 00:10:26.120the hurt pop bill. Okay,he'll sign it. Yeah, this talk14400:10:26.120 --> 00:10:33.039a little bit about because you knowwhen we're coming in earlier and coming down14500:10:33.039 --> 00:10:37.070here to start record, and wetalked about the the Faustian wager and that14600:10:37.149 --> 00:10:41.830sort of ties into that, thatwhole sort of compromise and almost like making14700:10:41.830 --> 00:10:43.470a deal with the devil. Soexplain that a little bit, as it14800:10:43.549 --> 00:10:48.029has to do with incrementalism and whythat's a trap. And you know,14900:10:48.149 --> 00:10:52.419some folks that are that are listeninghave no clue what we're even talking about.15000:10:52.419 --> 00:10:56.100Maybe even don't even know about incrementalismor mediatism or any of that.15100:10:56.779 --> 00:11:00.820But so the Faustian wager is mayeven more of a complex thing that it's15200:11:00.860 --> 00:11:03.059pretty simple to understand. It isit's an old story about the devil,15300:11:03.139 --> 00:11:09.889as sometimes named Mephistophilis or what.But it's the same argument. This incremental15400:11:09.929 --> 00:11:16.370approach. This is mephistophilis WHO's comingto to deal with Dr Faust, and15500:11:16.409 --> 00:11:18.360Dr Faust is going to sell hissoul to the devil so that he can15600:11:18.440 --> 00:11:24.559have power and enlightenment. Okay,and and so mephistoft least really tries to15700:11:24.600 --> 00:11:28.799talk foulest out of it, butfils ultimately gives in to the devil's emissary.15800:11:28.919 --> 00:11:31.679Now, mephistoph least it's not thedevil, just one of his little15900:11:31.720 --> 00:11:37.190minions, okay, that he's gotoperating. And so they make this wager.16000:11:37.629 --> 00:11:39.909Well, I know. So here'smy question. This is what I16100:11:39.950 --> 00:11:43.509asked churches. I say, well, if Donald Trump, who's now president,16200:11:43.549 --> 00:11:46.700would would say to you, listen, I will, as far as16300:11:46.740 --> 00:11:52.379it's up to me, in theUnited States of America, make abortion illegal.16400:11:54.500 --> 00:11:58.940Now, in Brownsville, Texas,there there were several little babies that16500:11:58.139 --> 00:12:01.330died because they were born without brainstems or something like that. They were16600:12:01.409 --> 00:12:05.330going to die there. We're goingto live for only a couple of hours,16700:12:05.129 --> 00:12:09.169you know, after the babies wereborn. And and that was going16800:12:09.210 --> 00:12:11.929on down in Brownsville Texas, andthis was back in one thousand nine hundred16900:12:11.929 --> 00:12:16.480and ninety two and and he saidthis to you. He said this if,17000:12:16.720 --> 00:12:20.919if you will give me those twolittle babies or three little babies holiver,17100:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.120many were born then that were bornwithout friends brain stems, are only17200:12:24.159 --> 00:12:26.399going to be here for a shortperiod of time. If you'll give me17300:12:26.519 --> 00:12:28.360those, I will, to thebest of my ability. I am going17400:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.990to stop abortion in this country.I'll make law, I'll do everything,17500:12:33.149 --> 00:12:37.710I can, sign executive orders,whatever's necessary. The question then becomes,17600:12:37.950 --> 00:12:41.509would you, Daniel Parks, makethat deal? Yeah, so we're talking17700:12:43.110 --> 00:12:46.500three babies that I would just say, okay, they're valuable, but I'm17800:12:46.500 --> 00:12:50.500willing to compromise and say Yay,they can, they'll just unfortunately have to17900:12:50.620 --> 00:12:56.139die and then potentially we can saveso many thousands, hundreds of thousands of18000:12:56.179 --> 00:12:58.210millions more. That's a yeah.But what you think of then that?18100:12:58.409 --> 00:13:01.210What does your own flesh tell you? Yeah, I mean my flesh says,18200:13:01.289 --> 00:13:05.889okay, it's maybe a good maybea good trade. Say You did.18300:13:07.649 --> 00:13:09.730I mean I would like to thankthat my church because again, I'm18400:13:09.730 --> 00:13:13.600going to look at this. Myflesh certainly wants to rise up and take18500:13:13.720 --> 00:13:16.000over and make this decision, butI know what God's Word says and I18600:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.639know ultimately that me making a wagerwith this, with the with the president18700:13:20.679 --> 00:13:24.200era, with the Supreme Court,is not what's going to end abortion.18800:13:24.360 --> 00:13:26.230It's going to be God. SoI'm going to I'm going to appeal to18900:13:26.269 --> 00:13:30.429the Lord and say it's not mychoice to make. So you mean to19000:13:30.549 --> 00:13:33.070tell me, and you would tellall those are the girls that are down19100:13:33.190 --> 00:13:37.350to abortion mill right today. Youwould tell them all that I, Daniel19200:13:37.389 --> 00:13:41.070Parks, and not going to makethat deal and all the babies that are19300:13:41.149 --> 00:13:43.659coming in here today could be saved. Yeah, yeah, I mean because,19400:13:43.659 --> 00:13:48.059ultimately, again, I'm not leaning. You know, the Bible speaks19500:13:48.100 --> 00:13:50.299against leaning on the arm of deflation. Well, I think you put it19600:13:50.340 --> 00:13:54.139in the hands of the Lord.Ultimately, right. Well, and you19700:13:54.620 --> 00:13:58.570and you stand strong on God's word. I mean, it's not an easy19800:13:58.009 --> 00:14:01.330it's not an easy question to answer. The answer. Would your wife,19900:14:01.409 --> 00:14:05.529Courtney say? Yeah, I meanwhen she's I think. I would like20000:14:05.610 --> 00:14:07.850to think she would let me leadin that area, as you would let20100:14:07.850 --> 00:14:11.919me contain where the pants she might, but she say, Daniel, you're20200:14:11.919 --> 00:14:13.960a real idiot. That's yeah,no, I'm sure you. You can't20300:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.480really do this. I meant tosave millions. I mean, doesn't it20400:14:18.600 --> 00:14:22.440makes sense? It makes absolute perfectwell, sir, I mean I guess20500:14:22.960 --> 00:14:26.269so. In my mind, I'mthinking number one, I don't trust the20600:14:26.350 --> 00:14:28.029thing that Donald Trump says that he'sgoing to be. Yeah, right,20700:14:28.070 --> 00:14:31.789I mean, I don't trust politicians, I don't trust you know, make20800:14:31.789 --> 00:14:33.710it. You could, let's say, let's say I could. Yeah,20900:14:33.710 --> 00:14:37.580I think. I mean it bowlsdown to it's not my it's not my21000:14:37.700 --> 00:14:43.620choice to determine whether or not someoneleaves choishes. I mean to the mothers21100:14:43.899 --> 00:14:46.740that are making the decision to havean abortion, it's their choice to kill21200:14:46.740 --> 00:14:50.899their child's but whose choice is thisdecision? Did? Yeah, I'm I21300:14:50.980 --> 00:14:52.210guess it. It's laid at mydoorstep. Yeah, it's mine. And21400:14:52.330 --> 00:14:56.769you would say no to that,right? I would say absolutely no.21500:14:56.009 --> 00:15:01.970Just add it on us word andso every single person that you know,21600:15:01.330 --> 00:15:05.570your friends, your mom and dad, probably, unless people really have thought21700:15:05.610 --> 00:15:11.480this thing through theologically, would sayyou are an idiot. I mean even21800:15:11.519 --> 00:15:15.120think I'm anything. You can't.I mean ask Jason Janez. You had21900:15:15.159 --> 00:15:16.919him here. I'll tell you.I know what he's going to say.22000:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.590Yeah, and it would probably surpriseyou. Maybe not, but but the22100:15:22.669 --> 00:15:26.190fact of the matter is that askedDavid and Jason Donham. That okay,22200:15:26.429 --> 00:15:31.549that's a good boy. They're hey, they should answer right there because because,22300:15:31.750 --> 00:15:37.220I believe me this, when weunderstand the ramifications of this battle and22400:15:37.340 --> 00:15:39.580how it will be fought and howit must be one. We cannot.22500:15:39.620 --> 00:15:43.580We have got to trust in theLord with all of our heart, not22600:15:43.740 --> 00:15:46.899trust our heart. Yeah, we'reand we're not to follow our heart.22700:15:46.980 --> 00:15:48.700Our hearts are going to lie toUS, just like they're going to lie22800:15:48.779 --> 00:15:54.409to probably everybody that's out there rightnow listening to you and me. They're22900:15:54.450 --> 00:15:58.490saying, you take the deal.Yeah, the problem is, God never23000:15:58.889 --> 00:16:03.360gave you the moral authority to makethat deal. Yeah, that's his deal.23100:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.559He is the one that determines.God never gave you that chip.23200:16:08.080 --> 00:16:12.360The chips all belong to him.We can't get in the place of God23300:16:12.480 --> 00:16:15.759to make that deal. The onlything that we can do is stand for23400:16:17.039 --> 00:16:22.870every single little baby, boy orgirl, and those two little babies born23500:16:22.950 --> 00:16:26.990without the brain stems in the Brownsville, Texas Irish passis and God site as23600:16:27.070 --> 00:16:30.710a seven and a half billion peopleon this planet. Yeah, and we've23700:16:30.710 --> 00:16:34.259got to begin to see things fromhis perspective. So then what do we23800:16:34.379 --> 00:16:37.539do, God? Yeah, Imean, how how are you going to23900:16:37.659 --> 00:16:41.340want us? You want us tohow are we going to overcome this if24000:16:41.419 --> 00:16:45.620we don't have that bargaining chip andwe don't God? Just wondering. Trust24100:16:45.779 --> 00:16:49.289into the Lord with all your heart, not trust your heart, not trust24200:16:49.330 --> 00:16:53.889your got. Now the Hollywood mantrasis follow your heart and not that.24300:16:55.450 --> 00:17:00.690She said. It says trust inthe Lord with all your heart and lean24400:17:00.929 --> 00:17:06.400not on your own understanding. Yeah, our own understanding and reason is going24500:17:06.440 --> 00:17:08.880to take us right down there ifwe are not governed and run. There's24600:17:10.039 --> 00:17:11.920there is a way, scrub verbs, I think says two or three times.24700:17:11.960 --> 00:17:15.160There is a way that seems rightto a man, but the end24800:17:15.200 --> 00:17:17.910of that way is death leads tothat. So I mean one of the24900:17:17.990 --> 00:17:21.109things that we're looking at is,you know, as I look at the25000:17:21.190 --> 00:17:25.269issue of abortion, I look atit from from merely almost like a gospel25100:17:25.390 --> 00:17:30.980preacher standpoint and not really the legislativeor the whatever that's like. Man,25200:17:32.140 --> 00:17:36.460what's the the end goal is theproclamation of the Gospel and that the Gospel25300:17:36.539 --> 00:17:40.619takes root in a human heart,and that's ultimately abortion ends sort of de25400:17:40.779 --> 00:17:44.650facto when the Gospel takes root ina society. That's sort of where I25500:17:44.730 --> 00:17:48.890come from. But when I hearyou know people and they make good arguments25600:17:48.930 --> 00:17:52.329and I hear you know about wellthis this legislation, heartbeat bills, or25700:17:53.009 --> 00:17:56.170you know twenty week bands or whatever. It's like these are going to say25800:17:56.210 --> 00:18:00.799babies. I don't really push againstthat because I'm like, well, if25900:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.279it does, and praise God.I just don't I don't know from a26000:18:04.519 --> 00:18:10.079from a biblical standpoint. How dowe, and how should we take a26100:18:10.200 --> 00:18:17.430stance against that sort of incrementalist mindset? What's the dangers of allowing that incrementalist26200:18:17.430 --> 00:18:22.390mindset to continue without addressing it?And and what are sort of what's the26300:18:22.430 --> 00:18:26.660alternative then? Well, we havean alternative. When Jesus was tempted,26400:18:27.819 --> 00:18:32.500what did he use? The devildid all sorts of reasoning with him.26500:18:32.579 --> 00:18:36.859You're hungry, turn these stones intobread. Yeah, and need and forty26600:18:36.859 --> 00:18:38.140days. Sure, it makes sense. I mean, you know, and26700:18:38.380 --> 00:18:42.049it's not going to these subtle compromisesof a liar. You know, just26800:18:42.450 --> 00:18:45.250if you really want to, youknow, people to worship you, just26900:18:45.329 --> 00:18:48.289show how strong you are, jumpoff the pinnacle of the temple. And27000:18:48.369 --> 00:18:53.130yet and and you know what,they'll all worship you if you are the27100:18:53.210 --> 00:18:56.319son of God. You you see, you hear the compromises. What was27200:18:56.440 --> 00:19:00.720the one weapon that Jesus used?The word of gutsump him exactly. It27300:19:02.079 --> 00:19:07.480is written, remember, back inGenesis, chapter three versus one, and27400:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.190to you see, did God reallysay yeah? And so what you're saying27500:19:11.269 --> 00:19:17.509then, is that when we're doing, you know, our legislative kind of27600:19:17.630 --> 00:19:19.589hurt, you know, making thesedifferent I don't say hurdles, but we're27700:19:19.630 --> 00:19:26.259making these legislative moves and all ofthis stuff, is it ultimately we're compromising27800:19:26.420 --> 00:19:29.500by saying, I'm I've heard yousay it before, when we make bills27900:19:29.539 --> 00:19:33.019and we leave exceptions in those bills, we're basically saying this, this and28000:19:33.099 --> 00:19:36.420this and then you can kill thebaby. And so you're saying that doing28100:19:36.500 --> 00:19:41.089that is not standing on the wordof God, that it's compromising God's word28200:19:41.089 --> 00:19:45.650and it's making a deal ultimately withwith truth. That because every single one28300:19:45.690 --> 00:19:52.210of those pieces of legislation, aswell intentioned as they are, with Dynamic28400:19:52.250 --> 00:19:56.119Christians that are saying, yes,they just haven't thought this out, okay,28500:19:56.319 --> 00:20:02.000but but it's that caveat seven wordsand then you can kill the baby.28600:20:02.079 --> 00:20:07.069So parental consent. Well, wouldyou sign this piece of legislation as28700:20:07.069 --> 00:20:12.109a Christian, would God, haveyou signed this piece of legislation that when28800:20:12.150 --> 00:20:18.470a parent consents to the murder oftheir grandchild or you know, yeah,28900:20:18.509 --> 00:20:26.940if they consent to that or whenor their child, then you can kill29000:20:26.980 --> 00:20:30.500the baby if they have a consent. Is that true? I mean that29100:20:30.980 --> 00:20:33.859if they get the parents consent?Yeah, is it true that they can29200:20:33.900 --> 00:20:37.730kill the baby? So that's okaythen, well, it's it's not okay29300:20:37.769 --> 00:20:41.609in God's life and in government.So white all right, so signing that29400:20:41.690 --> 00:20:44.769pet even with that, I meanthere's like, you know, you can29500:20:44.809 --> 00:20:47.849get a young lady can get awaiver where she didn't have to have him.29600:20:48.049 --> 00:20:51.440I absolutely she can do things.But but the fact of the matter29700:20:51.599 --> 00:20:56.160is that we spend a lot oftime working to get parental consent and a29800:20:56.200 --> 00:21:00.240lot of money in the pro lifeindustry begins to get involved. The pro29900:21:00.400 --> 00:21:04.549life industry is God to show thatit is accomplishing something so that we continue30000:21:04.589 --> 00:21:07.390to get the funds coming in.Now, unfortunately, for a lot of30100:21:07.509 --> 00:21:14.349pro life ministries, what happens isthe modality that was birthed in sacrifice and30200:21:15.430 --> 00:21:19.700filled with vision and mission to savebabies becomes after a while, just like30300:21:19.900 --> 00:21:23.700churches, just like us as wewalk and Christian like, we become so30400:21:23.900 --> 00:21:29.819daladies. You lose vision and missionand you get involved and I got to30500:21:29.819 --> 00:21:32.339support this beast. Yeah, Igot it, and so I build like30600:21:32.420 --> 00:21:36.009a frank and church or Frankin Ministry, where I got to do this and30700:21:36.130 --> 00:21:38.730we got to do that, becausestrategy has replaced truth. Yeah, and30800:21:38.930 --> 00:21:42.450this is the devastating thing. Weare moving God out of the equation and30900:21:42.569 --> 00:21:45.690we're trying on our own. Trustingin the Lord with all your heart and31000:21:45.930 --> 00:21:51.799lean not on your own understanding.Yeah, in all your ways, acknowledge31100:21:52.119 --> 00:21:56.880me and I will make your pathsstraight. God is made a promise.31200:21:56.279 --> 00:22:02.670I will do it. Trust mein this. Our duty is not to31300:22:03.069 --> 00:22:07.190compromise and strategize how to do this. Our duty is to love God first31400:22:07.509 --> 00:22:12.990and love our neighbor as ourself.And our duty is to live out his31500:22:14.190 --> 00:22:18.500word and allow the Theology of Heavento become biography right in the streets another.31600:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.660So let the word of God becomeflesh. Because how did Jesus save31700:22:22.059 --> 00:22:26.339a wretch like me? He hadto calm down into this pit to rescue31800:22:26.420 --> 00:22:30.930me. Yeah, there was nothingthat I could do. Are No strategy31900:22:30.009 --> 00:22:34.809that I could develop to make myselfto cover one of my sins. Only32000:22:36.089 --> 00:22:38.210he could have done it, andhe did it, and he's saying now,32100:22:38.930 --> 00:22:41.890as I have loved you, Iwant you to go out and love.32200:22:42.049 --> 00:22:45.279I want you to love others.I want you to love the world.32300:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.599Is I have loved you so thatthey will see what love does.32400:22:48.119 --> 00:22:56.440Love never sits idly buy what littlechildren are being killed? In six months,32500:22:56.160 --> 00:23:00.269right here in the city of Charlotte, we got three abortion mills and32600:23:00.470 --> 00:23:03.390planned parenthood. It's waiting to dothem, but can't thank God for the32700:23:03.470 --> 00:23:07.950prayers of the saints that are stoppingthem from doing that. But in six32800:23:08.029 --> 00:23:12.539months this whole abortion Holocaust in inthe city of Charlotte. Now are we32900:23:12.539 --> 00:23:15.980can stop all abortions? Of coursenot. You don't stop all sin either.33000:23:17.099 --> 00:23:19.420What we are what we are lookingto do, is to tell the33100:23:19.539 --> 00:23:23.380truth so that the nation knows thetruth about God, the truth about abortion,33200:23:23.420 --> 00:23:29.529and that's our duty. We arethe compass. We point true north.33300:23:30.170 --> 00:23:33.130We don't ever compromise God's word.We stand on God's word. So33400:23:33.289 --> 00:23:37.809is we allow that to become lifeevery single day. Like those folks out33500:23:37.849 --> 00:23:41.400there right now that are there pleadingfor the MOMS, they are living out33600:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.680the truth. They are doing it. They're compromising nothing. Yeah, nothing.33700:23:45.759 --> 00:23:48.640And they're laying their lives down.That's what they're doing out there.33800:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.799Yeah, if the church were toshow go up in mass, if we33900:23:53.200 --> 00:23:59.430if we saw three rolds being takeninto an abortion mill right thousand hundred and34000:23:59.430 --> 00:24:02.509twenty Latrobe Avenue, right down thestreet, if we saw three year olds34100:24:02.549 --> 00:24:06.150taken in, their Mama was takena man they and Mama said, look34200:24:06.150 --> 00:24:08.349at I can't raise the child.I'm I'm got college, I've got so34300:24:08.509 --> 00:24:11.700many things that I'm not a goodmom and so I'm going to take him34400:24:11.700 --> 00:24:14.460in. They're going to give hima little shop, put him to sleep,34500:24:14.500 --> 00:24:18.180nobody won't even know, and thenanother shot that will take him out,34600:24:18.259 --> 00:24:21.500because I'm a bad mother and Iknow it and I admit it.34700:24:22.140 --> 00:24:26.009What will we do if we sawthat happening down there as a church?34800:24:26.049 --> 00:24:29.930Yeah, we were, I meanyou amountaintly different. We would be down34900:24:29.970 --> 00:24:33.450there. Well, we've got threemonth old in the womb that are just35000:24:33.650 --> 00:24:37.089as precious and fully human as thatthree year old child outside of the womb35100:24:37.529 --> 00:24:42.039being taken in there. When youhave eyes to see this, God says35200:24:42.119 --> 00:24:47.480love your neighbor as yourself. Yeah, what they've done to me, what35300:24:47.640 --> 00:24:49.279you've done to the least of these, my brother, and you have done35400:24:49.319 --> 00:24:52.910it unto me. Yeah, anotherwe're Jordan nailing Jesus to the cross again35500:24:52.990 --> 00:24:56.950in if we in the church aregoing to sit back and say, well,35600:24:56.950 --> 00:25:00.309I'm not called to that ministry.We got other ministries. We take35700:25:00.349 --> 00:25:03.789care of the homeless. They're allwonderful. We've got cristis pregnancy centers over35800:25:03.829 --> 00:25:07.859here and over there to help mom. It's like building a hospital next to35900:25:07.900 --> 00:25:11.380a concentration camp. Yeah, comeon that. They're people in the concentration36000:25:11.460 --> 00:25:15.539camp and what they need is thatsomeone to bring them healing right now.36100:25:15.619 --> 00:25:19.220What they need is somebody to rescuethem out of the concentration camp. Yeah,36200:25:19.460 --> 00:25:25.329that's so so understand. The crisispregnancy centers are wonderful, but you've36300:25:25.329 --> 00:25:29.009got to have that. You can'thave your front lines up crisis pregnancy center.36400:25:29.049 --> 00:25:32.730Yeah, I mean any more thanthe marines will send Triaj in first.36500:25:33.009 --> 00:25:36.240Yeah, the Marines have got togo in first and Triaj is back36600:25:36.319 --> 00:25:40.000there to take care of the guyswho get wounded, going, going,36700:25:40.079 --> 00:25:44.119and so understand that when the churchrises up and says see, because how36800:25:44.200 --> 00:25:48.440we fight the battle is determined bywhat we perceive the battle to be.36900:25:48.880 --> 00:25:53.029Yeah, and if they really arekilling children there, and we really believe37000:25:53.150 --> 00:25:56.589that, then what are we calledto do? We are called to empty37100:25:56.710 --> 00:26:02.309ourselves and lay our life down thatthat child might live, precisely what they're37200:26:02.349 --> 00:26:06.099doing out at the abortion m yeah, but there are others that have said,37300:26:06.140 --> 00:26:08.099well, what I'm going to dois, and this is how I37400:26:08.259 --> 00:26:11.700started, you know, we're goingto write letters to our congressman. Yes,37500:26:11.059 --> 00:26:14.259what good is that going to dofor the little baby boy or girl37600:26:14.339 --> 00:26:17.539that's going in today if the latterdoesn't get there for three days? And37700:26:17.660 --> 00:26:22.450DC, plus the fact we're lookingnow to Washington DC to take care of37800:26:22.609 --> 00:26:29.289this problem? Washington DC cannot.The gates of how will always prevailed against37900:26:29.410 --> 00:26:32.920sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue and lot oftwenty. The Gates of mail are at38000:26:32.920 --> 00:26:37.759one thousand six hundred, is evennewer. The Congress there there, they38100:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.880can't fight. The only institution weredamed by God to come against this enemy38200:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.519is the Church of the Living God. And the problem is we don't know38300:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.750that. We are not cleansed sortof one, since we sort of relegated38400:26:48.789 --> 00:26:56.390our responsibility to the legislature into theone hundred Pennsylvania Avenue, and that's sort38500:26:56.390 --> 00:27:02.539of want when I look at incrementalsteps to ending abortion. And and again38600:27:02.579 --> 00:27:06.500I'm not always like stnicely opposed ofthose things, probably to a fault myself.38700:27:06.700 --> 00:27:08.180It's just not my I don't know, just hadn't put a lot of38800:27:08.259 --> 00:27:12.579thought to it, although I amrecently doing so. But the biggest danger38900:27:12.700 --> 00:27:15.970I see for the church is thatwhen we pass, you know, a39000:27:17.049 --> 00:27:21.849twenty week ban or, you know, the parental consent or even a heartbeat39100:27:21.890 --> 00:27:25.089bill, that we think somehow thatokay, we've won the battle, or39200:27:25.089 --> 00:27:29.170if we won a battle. andto me that's the biggest dangers, that39300:27:29.250 --> 00:27:30.440we can sit back and say,okay, we did our part, we39400:27:30.519 --> 00:27:33.720voted, we had our people inplace, you know, our politicians whatnot,39500:27:33.920 --> 00:27:36.839and we want to a battle.And you know, there's a lot39600:27:36.880 --> 00:27:42.680of celebration when these certain legislation ispassed and the prolife organizations and even Christians39700:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.789are rejoicing and and all of that. and to me that's that's the danger.39800:27:45.869 --> 00:27:48.390You know who we sit man?Who is won the battle? When39900:27:48.470 --> 00:27:53.069we sit back? The devil exactly. He's one. Yeah, he and40000:27:53.549 --> 00:27:57.470he wins every day that we don'tdeal with this. When I said that40100:27:57.579 --> 00:28:03.819the church could end this in Charlottein six months, I need to I40200:28:03.940 --> 00:28:07.539need to just put put a statementin front of that, a statement that40300:28:07.819 --> 00:28:12.369carries us through, that abortion willcome to an end in America, in40400:28:12.529 --> 00:28:18.089the city of Charlotte, when theChurch of Jesus Christ makes up her mind,40500:28:18.329 --> 00:28:19.930it will come to an end.And Yeah, one che and sooner.40600:28:21.650 --> 00:28:25.009You see, we have a Godand when we perceive this battle and40700:28:25.170 --> 00:28:29.440see what it really is, whenwe see that they're actually living human beings40800:28:29.480 --> 00:28:32.960that are going to be ripped apart. So don't tell me about your ministries40900:28:33.000 --> 00:28:37.680all over here. There isn't anotherplace that I know of or that you41000:28:37.839 --> 00:28:40.960know of in the city of Charlottewhere people are actually being killed and you41100:28:41.079 --> 00:28:44.549know they're going to be killed,then right here, that there's an immediacy41200:28:44.710 --> 00:28:48.150here, that these these children needa voice. Yeah, if the Church41300:28:48.269 --> 00:28:52.470would come out in mass, it'sover. We just come out into what41400:28:52.670 --> 00:28:55.069all? What are you supposed todo when you come out yet to have41500:28:55.349 --> 00:28:57.740church in the street? Yeah.So, so we're going to have what41600:28:57.859 --> 00:29:02.660in November sixteen? We're going tohave four five thousand people out here,41700:29:02.700 --> 00:29:06.380maybe more. Yeah, Melton thestreet. How long do you think abortions41800:29:06.420 --> 00:29:10.410go to last? If, ifeverything did that day, if we got41900:29:10.490 --> 00:29:14.130every single day, we got thepraying, singing Church of Jesus Christ out42000:29:14.170 --> 00:29:18.890here, all of a sudden everythingchanges. The police can't arrest enough people,42100:29:18.170 --> 00:29:22.250you know, they can't terrify them, or they're going to have people42200:29:22.329 --> 00:29:25.400in and then other Christians are goingto come in, they're going to catch42300:29:25.599 --> 00:29:29.640and see what happens. Is Ifwill unloose that on Earth, God promises42400:29:29.680 --> 00:29:32.640that I will loose it from heaven. Yeah, you know, I'm you,42500:29:32.839 --> 00:29:36.279and so let's do it. Let'sallow the theology of having let God42600:29:36.359 --> 00:29:41.509win this victory. We are God'sanswer to this. The same thing happened42700:29:41.589 --> 00:29:45.430with the issue of slavery. Itwas just a different colored glove. It42800:29:45.630 --> 00:29:48.750was our black brothers and sisters,and the Supreme Court in one thousand eight42900:29:48.789 --> 00:29:52.299hundred and fifty seven declared our blackbrothers and sisters not fully human. What43000:29:52.500 --> 00:29:56.299we try to come up with allsorts of compromises, the three fifths law.43100:29:56.420 --> 00:30:00.140What will make him three fists ofa person? That was to appease43200:30:00.180 --> 00:30:03.380the south, to keep them stilla part of the union. So you43300:30:03.460 --> 00:30:07.019could count the slaves as three fistsof a vote, right, and so43400:30:07.410 --> 00:30:11.049you all of these political compromises.Henry Clay, the great compromiser, couldn't43500:30:11.049 --> 00:30:18.009fix this because the issue was neverpolitical. It had its manifestation there,43600:30:18.089 --> 00:30:22.759but at the very heart of itit was a battle over who is Lord43700:30:22.799 --> 00:30:27.079and whose law's reign. If Godis Lord, our black brothers and sisters43800:30:27.160 --> 00:30:32.640are fully human, not three fists. So stop doing that, stop compromising43900:30:32.720 --> 00:30:37.230God's worth their five fists of aperson. Yeah, one hundred percent.44000:30:37.509 --> 00:30:41.309And and you know, Lincoln,when he became president, had no intention44100:30:41.950 --> 00:30:47.029of ending slavery at all when hebecame president. Now, after two years44200:30:47.509 --> 00:30:52.819of the presidency in the south seceding. Then it became apparent there was going44300:30:52.819 --> 00:30:55.859to be a war. Yeah,and there was a war and six hundred44400:30:56.019 --> 00:31:00.619thousand, six hundred thousand plus mendied in the civil war. Six hundred44500:31:00.660 --> 00:31:03.769thousand. That's more than I havedied in all the wars since then.44600:31:04.170 --> 00:31:11.970And Abraham Lincoln finally realized that Godwas dealing with the sin of slavery.44700:31:11.009 --> 00:31:15.210Yeah, and and how did hecome to that realization? Well, we44800:31:15.369 --> 00:31:18.319had abolitionists. That's where you firstget abolitionists. But some of the abolition44900:31:18.440 --> 00:31:22.960just we're absolutely insane, John Brownbeing one. Yeah, I want you45000:31:22.960 --> 00:31:25.920to talk about that because you saidsomething. We were talking about this yesterday45100:31:26.519 --> 00:31:29.279and it was like, you know, it was profound to me, or45200:31:29.279 --> 00:31:30.039at least I don't know. Itwas like, man, people need to45300:31:30.119 --> 00:31:33.509hear this when we talked about becausewe talked about abolitionists, you know,45400:31:33.670 --> 00:31:40.869the modern abortion abolitionist movement and theprolife movement in these different terms that we45500:31:40.950 --> 00:31:47.180use, immediatist, incrementalist, abolitionistand prolife and whatever, which terms should45600:31:47.180 --> 00:31:48.259we had plotter ourself, and yousaid something. I like, man,45700:31:48.339 --> 00:31:52.900people need to hear this, thatwe don't come out here and do what45800:31:53.019 --> 00:31:56.579we do is abolitionists. We don'tdo what we do in speaking up for45900:31:56.619 --> 00:32:01.410these babies as prolifers. We dowhat we do. Ask Christians we are46000:32:01.450 --> 00:32:06.089here, because not, we're,you know, part of some group or46100:32:06.130 --> 00:32:08.289this or that, and you knowGod uses groups and all of that,46200:32:08.490 --> 00:32:14.210but I'm saying primarily we come outhere because we are Christians, because we46300:32:14.289 --> 00:32:20.759are called to love our neighbor asourselves. We don't compromise because we're Christians.46400:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.119We stand on God's truth, becausewe're Christians. And as to that46500:32:23.279 --> 00:32:30.309same point of the gates of helldo not prevail against the Church of Jesus46600:32:30.390 --> 00:32:32.470Christ, Jesus didn't come and say, you know, on this rock I46700:32:32.509 --> 00:32:37.869will build my prolife movement or I'llbuild my abolitionist, you know movement,46800:32:37.910 --> 00:32:43.069or I'll build my you know,I meti immediateist movement or incrementalist movement.46900:32:43.150 --> 00:32:46.140Note I will build my church.And that that point there. And if47000:32:46.180 --> 00:32:49.779you can just kind of expound onthat point a little bit, as far47100:32:49.819 --> 00:32:52.299as the Church of Jesus Christ,you already have being the entity that God47200:32:52.420 --> 00:32:58.809has called in us, operating withthat as our modest operendom right our mode47300:32:58.849 --> 00:33:01.450of operation is we are the church. Talk a little bit about that and47400:33:01.529 --> 00:33:06.289kind of share with folks your hearton that. Well, I think you47500:33:06.410 --> 00:33:08.250just said that perfect. Okay,I love to hear you how to write47600:33:08.250 --> 00:33:10.609a book about I should write abook, I know, I mean,47700:33:10.730 --> 00:33:16.759it's an except I am not anabolitionist and it wasn't abolitionism that overcame this47800:33:16.920 --> 00:33:22.000whole issue of slavery. See ifwe could just remember history, which,47900:33:22.039 --> 00:33:27.789unfortunately we're in a spiritual Alzheimer's here. and point when you start forgetting your48000:33:27.829 --> 00:33:31.230history? Well, Alzheimer's. Haveyou ever dealt with people those of him?48100:33:31.269 --> 00:33:35.230I grand maybe's not from Alzheimer's.Yeahka, what? They lose who48200:33:35.309 --> 00:33:38.349they are? Yeah, they loseall point and purpose. That's where America48300:33:38.430 --> 00:33:44.099is where to spiritual Alzheimer's. We'veforgotten who we are, why we're here,48400:33:44.420 --> 00:33:47.259where we're going and who we represent. We forgotten all about what made48500:33:47.460 --> 00:33:51.539America great in the first place.Yeah, you know, we want to48600:33:51.579 --> 00:33:53.180make a great again, but howR? Yeah, what you can.48700:33:53.500 --> 00:33:58.730You can't abandon God and leave himback there and expect him to bless America.48800:33:59.130 --> 00:34:01.609You can't be killing over sixty millionof his children and say God,48900:34:01.690 --> 00:34:07.250bless America. Yeah, what he'ssaying. Repent America. If my people,49000:34:07.250 --> 00:34:09.840who were called by my name,shall humble themselves in pray and seek49100:34:09.920 --> 00:34:15.000my face and turn from their wickedways, then I will hear from heaven49200:34:15.119 --> 00:34:21.719and I will forgive their sin andI will heal their land. I believe49300:34:21.880 --> 00:34:24.269that all the way through the Bible. I see it, Old Testament,49400:34:24.429 --> 00:34:30.949New Testament. When do we win? Everywhere in the Bible at all times.49500:34:30.989 --> 00:34:34.269It's not the beginning of the bookand the end of the book.49600:34:34.349 --> 00:34:37.550We win. We went all theway through and you see the victories all49700:34:37.590 --> 00:34:40.579the way through. Their small victories, but their victories nevertheless are small victories49800:34:40.619 --> 00:34:45.340in my life, but their victories, nevertheless, they're small victories out there49900:34:45.460 --> 00:34:49.260in the streets, when people showup in the name of Jesus to bring50000:34:49.300 --> 00:34:52.809that what that does? We havethe keys all authority and having another earth50100:34:52.929 --> 00:34:57.610has been given me. Jesus saidto his disciples, go there for me,50200:34:58.329 --> 00:35:01.849disciples of all nations, potataw fNay, all nations. You make50300:35:01.929 --> 00:35:06.929disciples of all nation, teaching themto obey all that I've commanded you,50400:35:07.119 --> 00:35:09.320and Lo, I will be withyou to the end of the age.50500:35:09.639 --> 00:35:14.599That's who we need. This iswho's going to win the victory and it's50600:35:14.599 --> 00:35:17.559going to happen every single day,in small victories every single day. But50700:35:17.719 --> 00:35:22.789when you just look up in thepolitical realm, that's the where the clean50800:35:22.349 --> 00:35:28.909pro lifers are. They're clean.I mean it's a clean business and any50900:35:29.030 --> 00:35:30.949and you do well and you getinto green rooms and you get invited to51000:35:30.989 --> 00:35:35.190speak, if you're up in WashingtonDC. You'll get him invited to speak51100:35:35.190 --> 00:35:38.460to an all those talk shows.But the dirty pro lifers, you see,51200:35:38.500 --> 00:35:43.980we serve a dirty savior. Hecame down here, he came down51300:35:44.019 --> 00:35:46.739to the Cesspool, the mud,the blood, the beer, the grit,51400:35:47.019 --> 00:35:51.690the filth, the bilge of mylife. He did. He had51500:35:51.690 --> 00:35:54.489to get into this cess pool topull me out because there was no way51600:35:54.489 --> 00:35:57.849out for me. You could toput a ladder down there and said climb51700:35:57.849 --> 00:36:00.250out, but there was no ladderthat there was going to get me out51800:36:00.250 --> 00:36:06.400of there. I was I hehad to come and he sinks into that51900:36:06.719 --> 00:36:08.360to get me up. That's thesavior that I serve. If he was52000:36:08.639 --> 00:36:15.079wounded for my transgressions, bruise formy iniquities, the chastisement of my pieces52100:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.829upon him and with his stripes,I am healed. Yeah, that's him.52200:36:19.150 --> 00:36:22.269He's so this savior is that?When we go out to the streets,52300:36:22.989 --> 00:36:27.269do you think? Do you hearpeople vilifying the people up in Washington52400:36:27.309 --> 00:36:32.659DC coming up with all of thesewonderful prolife bills and things like that?52500:36:32.820 --> 00:36:37.460No, it's all clean. Yeah, well, premise, they're not.52600:36:37.059 --> 00:36:43.179They come from along because the devilthe same devil that's coming after us right52700:36:43.179 --> 00:36:45.059now, you know, that putsus in jail, to gives us citations52800:36:45.099 --> 00:36:49.969all the time, that files lawsuitsagainst us, that builds walls, as52900:36:50.329 --> 00:36:52.849if they can, to keep usfrom giving mom's a real choice. That,53000:36:53.050 --> 00:36:57.010see, that's the dirty stuff.And we get pushed into a corner.53100:36:57.090 --> 00:36:59.929We who are living out the gospelof Christ, get pushed into this53200:37:00.050 --> 00:37:05.320corner of wild eyed fanatics when theydon't understand that this is what our Lord53300:37:05.400 --> 00:37:07.559did for us, and he wascalled every name that you could possibly imagine.53400:37:07.679 --> 00:37:10.480As a matter of fact, eventhe Religious Pharisees, who knew the53500:37:10.559 --> 00:37:16.110Bible inside out, they hated him, even the Herodians, and that as53600:37:16.110 --> 00:37:21.630a Sadducees, the Pharisees, theyall came together. Yeah, and they53700:37:21.750 --> 00:37:24.150hated each other, but they cametogether. I know you preach the message53800:37:24.150 --> 00:37:28.750ones. I'm Jesus Unites His enemiesand divides his friends. That's right,53900:37:28.829 --> 00:37:31.179he's friends every single time and hewill separate his friends. And, by54000:37:31.179 --> 00:37:34.260the way, a lot of thepeople that were walking with you at one54100:37:34.300 --> 00:37:37.139time saying love, and Daniel said, yeah, I think you. I54200:37:37.260 --> 00:37:39.579think the cheese has done slid offthe crack. Yeah, if you bring54300:37:39.619 --> 00:37:44.329it out there screaming at all thosepeople out there, you're not doing any54400:37:44.369 --> 00:37:46.170goodest. Matter of fact, you'reharm in the pro life movement. And54500:37:46.369 --> 00:37:50.090and and, let me tell you, you're not harm in the pro life54600:37:50.130 --> 00:37:52.769movement, in the folks that areout here. These are small victories.54700:37:52.809 --> 00:37:57.690It's a thankless job the church.This doesn't benefit the church in any way.54800:37:57.730 --> 00:37:59.960It doesn't get you members. Asa matter of fact, they'll get54900:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.000people to not want to come toyour church if that's the way you're going55000:38:04.039 --> 00:38:07.599to act out there in the streets. It's just the way it is.55100:38:07.360 --> 00:38:13.110So we have to despise the shame, like our Savior Jesus did, and55200:38:13.269 --> 00:38:15.190endure the cross. Yeah, hedid, and our cross today. We55300:38:15.269 --> 00:38:20.349got to deny ourselves. My fleshdoesn't want to be out here all the55400:38:20.429 --> 00:38:23.829time listening to this stuff and thengetting chastised by the church. Yeah,55500:38:23.829 --> 00:38:27.340and I when I come back,you know, I come back to church55600:38:27.420 --> 00:38:30.980and it's like I got my tailbetween my legs. You know, the55700:38:30.019 --> 00:38:34.139other day I was right down theroad, as actually right into the abortion55800:38:34.219 --> 00:38:36.820mail here on the tribe, andI was at a stopped light and I55900:38:36.940 --> 00:38:39.699was just thinking about, you know, some false accusations the police have brought56000:38:39.699 --> 00:38:44.289against us, a city council.They paint us as these radical, you56100:38:44.369 --> 00:38:49.010know, right wing whatever, andeven some well meaning Christians that have some56200:38:49.130 --> 00:38:51.889criticisms what we do, which youI don't. I don't share criticism,56300:38:51.969 --> 00:38:52.929but if it's not found in theword, I don't want to hear it,56400:38:53.050 --> 00:38:55.079you know. And I was like, I was just praying. I56500:38:55.159 --> 00:38:58.440was like, Lord, you knowwhat, I'm tired of getting falsely accused.56600:38:59.000 --> 00:39:00.960And this is like almost as clearas I've heard the Lord speak to56700:39:01.039 --> 00:39:04.440my heart. It's like the HolySpirit spoken. Said, yeah, I56800:39:04.519 --> 00:39:07.320know what you mean. I waslike, you know what, Lord,56900:39:07.519 --> 00:39:10.150you're worse. You're right, you'reright. You kind of did get falsely57000:39:10.190 --> 00:39:14.349accused, didn't you? Sound likesorry, Lord, Give Me Grace and57100:39:14.429 --> 00:39:15.869I'll bear under this. But yes, that's the way he did it.57200:39:16.030 --> 00:39:20.349Yeah, and he died and itappeared to the world that he was losing57300:39:20.389 --> 00:39:22.230it. It probably appeared, yeah, devil to the devil, that he57400:39:22.269 --> 00:39:24.820would I finally I've got him,I've shot him up. But what he57500:39:24.940 --> 00:39:30.260didn't understand what the angels and heavendidn't even know how God was going to57600:39:30.380 --> 00:39:35.820operate that now, as soon ashe died and he ascended into heaven and57700:39:35.940 --> 00:39:39.090that Holy Spirit came down, nowhe had Jesus everywhere ever, the fly57800:39:39.369 --> 00:39:44.889right inside of their hearts, justand that's where revival comes from. So57900:39:45.329 --> 00:39:47.929what what do we need to do? Where are we at right now?58000:39:49.090 --> 00:39:52.809And the fact of the matter iswe're at at point where we've got to58100:39:52.849 --> 00:39:57.639say, well, let's just rememberhistory and go back. Do you know58200:39:58.280 --> 00:40:01.239when Dread Scott Decision, one thousandeight hundred and fifty seven that we just58300:40:01.280 --> 00:40:07.150talked about, that that called ourblack brothers and sisters property in the slave58400:40:07.190 --> 00:40:10.269owners? Do you know when thatwas overturned? I do not know.58500:40:10.869 --> 00:40:15.150It never was okay by the SupremeCourt. Now we have the thirteen,58600:40:15.190 --> 00:40:19.269four, fourteen to fifteen amendments.Yeah, the took care of that,58700:40:19.389 --> 00:40:22.860but there had to be a bloodycivil war that was fought and it was58800:40:22.980 --> 00:40:27.780the church rising up. It wasthe church that came without almost a hundred58900:40:28.860 --> 00:40:36.730yard long scroll, a pastor saying, Mr President, you must sign this59000:40:36.929 --> 00:40:44.250emancipation proclamation declaring our black brothers andsisters fully human. Yeah, that this59100:40:44.449 --> 00:40:49.369nation has to take that stand assoon as that thing was signed. Now,59200:40:49.409 --> 00:40:54.199it was initially signed but not ratified. It was initially signed in September59300:40:54.400 --> 00:40:59.000of one thousand eighteen and sixty three, one thousand and eighteen and sixty two,59400:40:59.599 --> 00:41:05.230but it was officially signed on Januaryfee one eighteen sixty three. It59500:41:05.469 --> 00:41:12.590was at that point that the wholethe whole battle turned and and the Union59600:41:12.710 --> 00:41:16.190forces, because God had given thesouth all the best generals. Okay,59700:41:16.230 --> 00:41:21.500they could out general any of thegenerals in the north, but the north59800:41:21.699 --> 00:41:25.820had all of the resources and supplieswhen that thing was signed. That's a59900:41:25.940 --> 00:41:31.059national repentance of the killer of thebondage, that we were dealing with,60000:41:31.139 --> 00:41:36.690a sin of slavery. Yeah,after that was signed, we began to60100:41:36.769 --> 00:41:39.050win. The North Begin to winthe battles and the and the fought the60200:41:39.170 --> 00:41:45.809fight. The battle was one.Yeah, what? But Abraham Lincoln in60300:41:45.010 --> 00:41:50.480his second inaugural address, which iswritten in the halls of the Lincoln Memorial,60400:41:51.039 --> 00:41:54.960that second he said that it isand Lincoln finally came to this realization60500:41:55.239 --> 00:42:01.710that it was the sin of slavery, that that every drop of blood that60600:42:01.909 --> 00:42:07.349was shed by the Slat, bythe whip of the master, would be60700:42:07.510 --> 00:42:14.110required of us on the battle fieldsbecause of the sin of slavery. And60800:42:14.269 --> 00:42:19.059now God began to bring healing tothis nation. Yeah, he forgave our60900:42:19.059 --> 00:42:21.739sin, but we had to confessthat that was a sin. Yeah,61000:42:21.780 --> 00:42:24.219we had a confessor when it andit happened not in the halls of Congress61100:42:24.380 --> 00:42:30.369or in the Senate or in theSupreme Court or in one thousand six hundreds61200:42:30.409 --> 00:42:34.369of Pennsylvania Avenue. It happened inthe Church of Jesus Christ. It did.61300:42:35.010 --> 00:42:38.170And is is it like? Youknow, the Scripture says judgment begins61400:42:38.210 --> 00:42:42.530at the House of the Lord andthen you sort of contide it together.61500:42:42.610 --> 00:42:46.639Paul says in the Police Search Scrinthians, chapter ten or eleven, where he61600:42:46.760 --> 00:42:50.840says unless you judge yourself, you'llbe judged of God. So it's like61700:42:50.960 --> 00:42:57.519the church judged itself, repented secondchronicles fourteen, and then the healing came61800:42:57.599 --> 00:43:00.789and led the nation in repentance.Yeah, the words. It's got to61900:43:00.869 --> 00:43:02.949begin in the House of God.So where's the House of God right now?62000:43:02.989 --> 00:43:07.949Well, we got lights, wegot smoke and fall and are that.62100:43:08.190 --> 00:43:12.940We got it all. We gotit all and still there are three62200:43:14.059 --> 00:43:19.139freestanding abortion mill in the city killingchildren. Yeah, we're growing our churches,62300:43:19.739 --> 00:43:22.820but we know that this is happeningin God us saying, where are62400:43:23.019 --> 00:43:30.570you? You see, tolerance sitsback and does nothing. Love gets involved62500:43:30.690 --> 00:43:36.409and does something. Love can't singcity back. You don't tolerate something that's62600:43:36.449 --> 00:43:40.250wrong, that's going on. SoBiblical love maybe looks a lot different than62700:43:40.329 --> 00:43:44.760this world. The stuff that wetalked about in this world is to L62800:43:44.880 --> 00:43:49.960U V yeah, the real stuff. It's just the sugar where the salt62900:43:50.119 --> 00:43:53.119of the earth and we have beenstuck in this salt Shaker and we're enjoying63000:43:53.239 --> 00:43:57.750the fellowship in there, the holyhotels that we have, but we're not63100:43:58.030 --> 00:44:02.909out here in the streets. Andthat's because we're comfortable. Yeah, we63200:44:02.989 --> 00:44:07.349are, and we're comfortable and we'rereally comfortable with blaming the Republicans for doing63300:44:07.429 --> 00:44:12.980something. We're really comfortable with blamingtrump or blaming anybody else in the world.63400:44:13.059 --> 00:44:15.659End Damns, you're good. Yeah, I mean we're doing what we63500:44:15.699 --> 00:44:22.179can't. So what you see isyou see the single entity most responsible for63600:44:22.219 --> 00:44:28.369the abortion Holocaust in this land isnot planned parenthood or Margaret Singer. It's63700:44:28.489 --> 00:44:32.570not the ACLU, it's not anafter National Abortion Federation. It isn't any63800:44:32.690 --> 00:44:37.130of those things. It's not oursorry public education, it isn't any of63900:44:37.210 --> 00:44:42.079those things. The one most responsiblefor what is happening in America today,64000:44:42.239 --> 00:44:46.280in the city of Charlotte today,is is the one who really thinks it's64100:44:46.360 --> 00:44:51.039doing the most to solve the problem. Yeah, which is the Church of64200:44:51.079 --> 00:44:55.150Jesus Christ. Well, we arepathotic in God's side. We aren't out64300:44:55.269 --> 00:45:00.710there. If the church had acall and said, look, if you64400:45:00.989 --> 00:45:06.949don't come out to these abortion mills, I'm going to take every public error,64500:45:06.989 --> 00:45:10.420every private education stuff, I'm goingto take all of your goodies away64600:45:10.420 --> 00:45:15.699from you, all your buildings,everything, your smoke machines, your everything64700:45:15.780 --> 00:45:20.260is going. Your your book deals, everything is out. Do you think64800:45:20.300 --> 00:45:22.329the church might show up at theseplaces? I say now, either take64900:45:22.409 --> 00:45:25.489care of this or it's all gone. Yeah, well, let me just65000:45:25.650 --> 00:45:29.849tell you. That's it. Welove our stuff and we don't know it.65100:45:30.289 --> 00:45:34.250We can see everybody else that's atfault except ourselves. So we are65200:45:34.329 --> 00:45:37.159not on the verge of repentance.And if there's not going to be repentance,65300:45:38.559 --> 00:45:44.119then there is I don't care whatkind of strategy you have. God65400:45:44.199 --> 00:45:47.000has one strategy. It's repentance.Stand on my word. Well, how65500:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.309am I going to do this?Don't worry about your strategy, I'll take65600:45:50.309 --> 00:45:52.590care of that. Don't lean onyour own understanding. I'll take care of65700:45:52.670 --> 00:45:55.349everything. You just trust me.you go out and live and you love65800:45:55.429 --> 00:46:00.269your neighbors, yourself, trying toimagine your own son or daughter there and65900:46:00.389 --> 00:46:04.500it was going to be taken awayto death. Begin to live like that66000:46:05.139 --> 00:46:08.460and what that will do is itwill when repentance begins in the church,66100:46:08.699 --> 00:46:14.099it begins to move all over everythingand then ultimately you will see laws change,66200:46:14.500 --> 00:46:17.539but it's from the inside out.It's from the bottom up and not66300:46:17.769 --> 00:46:21.010from the top down. We're upat the top. You know, we66400:46:21.130 --> 00:46:23.250got the president, so I'll fixit. Yeah, it couldn't work.66500:46:23.449 --> 00:46:28.489You can't do it. Yeah,that's a good word. Well, and66600:46:28.570 --> 00:46:31.449just in wrapping this thing up,because we've gone almost forty five minutes,66700:46:31.610 --> 00:46:35.159I think, you know, we'vetouched on a lot. You know,66800:46:35.199 --> 00:46:37.800I want to encourage folks to youknow, you can come, certainly come66900:46:37.880 --> 00:46:42.440in volunteer with US cities for lifeif you're in Charlotte, but if you're67000:46:42.800 --> 00:46:45.400you know around the country and you'restirred to action because, listen, they're67100:46:45.519 --> 00:46:50.510like what seven hundred abortion meals acrossthis country. Thankfully the number has as67200:46:51.030 --> 00:46:54.670decline for various reasons, but inthe main reason is that people are showing67300:46:54.670 --> 00:46:58.550up to those abortions and seeing babysaved. If your burden to do that.67400:46:59.070 --> 00:47:04.179We have a website, sidewalks forlifecom sidewalks on number four, where67500:47:04.179 --> 00:47:07.380we're focusing on how to bring theGospel to the abortion clinic, because one67600:47:07.380 --> 00:47:09.380of the traps is is one ofthe reasons why we started this podcast,67700:47:10.099 --> 00:47:14.340and this is, you know,as Christians, it love Jesus, one67800:47:14.380 --> 00:47:16.969of the chaps will fall into.It's compromising the word of God to be67900:47:17.130 --> 00:47:23.050more effective, letting strategy overtake truth, and and so one of our heart68000:47:23.530 --> 00:47:28.289kind of our focus with this podcastis to infiltrate the pro life movement with68100:47:28.530 --> 00:47:31.800the necessity of the Gospel. Andthat's what that website, sidewalks for life,68200:47:31.800 --> 00:47:34.880talks about, how to bring theGospel. Yeah, I mean we68300:47:35.079 --> 00:47:37.360we medical facts. Medical facts areon our side, science is on our68400:47:37.400 --> 00:47:40.360side. You know, it resourcesand stuff. We bring that kind of68500:47:40.440 --> 00:47:44.309thing. You know, the ultrasound. The power of ultrasound is is,68600:47:44.829 --> 00:47:46.710is great, but it does notmatch the power of the Gospel. We68700:47:46.869 --> 00:47:51.150have to bring the Gospel to theabortion clinics, we have to bring the68800:47:51.190 --> 00:47:54.110Gospel to the to the legislators,to and and hold these legislators accountable.68900:47:54.110 --> 00:47:58.389That the reason why we're opposed toabortion. It's not just because it's bad69000:47:58.469 --> 00:48:01.579for women or it's bad for society, it's because God's words says that it's69100:48:01.579 --> 00:48:06.579murder and that we as a peoplecannot stand by while murder takes place and69200:48:06.739 --> 00:48:09.380do nothing, and it legislators can'tstand by and do nothing. So I69300:48:09.420 --> 00:48:13.769want to encourage you guys with thatand encourage you guys to share this podcast69400:48:14.210 --> 00:48:16.489and just give us some feedback ifyou have ideas for future podcast. And69500:48:16.650 --> 00:48:20.730I'd like to have flip back onand talk a little bit about sort of69600:48:20.769 --> 00:48:22.409the history of the pro life movingat some point, because he's been involved69700:48:22.449 --> 00:48:27.440for thirty plus years, longer thansome of you been alive. I must69800:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.199learner that, but it's got he'sgot some wisdom that I think he can69900:48:30.519 --> 00:48:32.960he can really share any has sharedtoday. So I appreciate you coming and70000:48:34.079 --> 00:48:38.360sharing appreciate all those who listen andhope that you're blessed by this podcast.70100:48:38.599 --> 00:49:02.699God bless use, mel use,give me, give me. Will cost70200:49:02.860 --> 00:49:10.010me my life, but not things. TWO PRECIOUS INSIDE