The Bible Doesn't Mention Abortion and 4 other Prochoice Arguments

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.799I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Send Me,200:00:06.160 --> 00:00:11.109Lord, I am your welcome tothe Gospel centered pro life podcast and this300:00:11.230 --> 00:00:15.550episode we're going to talk about fivepro choice arguments and how to counter those400:00:15.550 --> 00:00:19.510arguments. Please stay with us aswe talked through these important issues. We500:00:19.629 --> 00:00:29.100hope you're blessed as you this.I felt show passis touch your heart.600:00:31.460 --> 00:00:39.729Use Welcome to the Gospel Center prolife podcast. I have today, as700:00:39.929 --> 00:00:44.210often do, Vicki here, Vicky, cause you org, is the volunteer800:00:44.289 --> 00:00:48.369coordinator with cities for life, andmy name is Daniel Parks. If you900:00:48.450 --> 00:00:51.640don't already know, I'm the executivedirector of cities for life here in Charlotte,1000:00:51.640 --> 00:00:56.119where sidewalk counseling ministry. But westarted this podcast to encourage folks with,1100:00:56.759 --> 00:01:00.240you know, a Gospel centered approachto not decide, we all countling,1200:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.950but to prolife ministry, to prolife thought, to understand that are1300:01:06.390 --> 00:01:10.670thinking about abortion needs to really bethought through in the light of the Gospel.1400:01:10.709 --> 00:01:15.349Yes, and in this episode we'regoing to talk about five pro choice1500:01:15.349 --> 00:01:19.060arguments and how to counter those prochoice arguments. These are arguments that we1600:01:19.180 --> 00:01:23.060hear from pro choice activists, thearguments that you see on social media,1700:01:23.379 --> 00:01:26.980their arguments that we hear sometimes fromabortion mounded women at the abortion and center1800:01:27.459 --> 00:01:30.579and and just in interactions. Theseare some of the arguments of that come1900:01:30.620 --> 00:01:34.370out. This is not an exhaustivelist, this is just five of those2000:01:34.650 --> 00:01:38.370pro choice arguments, but these,you know, countering these arguments, I2100:01:38.409 --> 00:01:44.010think, is important and they're notreally too deep. They're not very deep2200:01:44.129 --> 00:01:48.159faults typically, but they do sometimescause us to Paul's and think, Oh2300:01:48.159 --> 00:01:49.680yeah, well, what about that? What about this? Especially when we2400:01:49.760 --> 00:01:55.120get into some of the the biblicalarguments. See what's funny that we hear2500:01:55.200 --> 00:01:57.239from from pro choice people that youneed to know the Bible really has no2600:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.549validity. And in that first pointwe're going to deal with tough a little2700:02:00.549 --> 00:02:04.829bit about that. But it's funnyhow the Bible, Bible really has no2800:02:04.870 --> 00:02:07.870validity to life according to some ofthese folks. But the Bible says this2900:02:07.990 --> 00:02:13.270or the Bible doesn't say that.So jump right into that that first objection3000:02:13.509 --> 00:02:15.819or first argument that share choice.Be Sure. Okay. So so I3100:02:15.900 --> 00:02:23.699want to preface all of this withwhenever I'm in countering these pro socalled pro3200:02:23.740 --> 00:02:30.090choice objections. Sometimes they have somesort of a faith, but most of3300:02:30.129 --> 00:02:32.289the time they do not. Oftentimesthey do not. And and so I3400:02:32.449 --> 00:02:36.930think it's always good to consider allof this in terms of not only biblical,3500:02:36.969 --> 00:02:40.210of course biblical is most important tous, Sus a Gospel centered pro3600:02:40.370 --> 00:02:47.439life ministry, but but also canyou are go argue for using science,3700:02:47.599 --> 00:02:52.520secular facts, and I think youcan. The Bible supports the Bible is3800:02:52.680 --> 00:02:55.680the author of science. Yeah,science just reflect except how the world works,3900:02:55.719 --> 00:03:00.150which God created this, this world. Yeah. So, so I4000:03:00.550 --> 00:03:04.629try to do that whenever I addressany of these any of these issues.4100:03:04.710 --> 00:03:09.229So our first question. Will hearthis all the time. The Bible doesn't4200:03:09.229 --> 00:03:15.180mention abortion even once. Yeah,and this again it's is from people who4300:03:15.219 --> 00:03:19.300don't believe the Bible right and don'tthink the Bible has any validity. Did4400:03:19.340 --> 00:03:23.259it to human existence, and yetthey say the Bible doesn't mention abortion even4500:03:23.300 --> 00:03:25.699once in the of course what they'retrying to do is they're trying to take4600:03:25.979 --> 00:03:29.409you know, the book that youbelieve in, that you try to use4700:03:29.569 --> 00:03:35.409to to fight against abortion, actuallydoesn't even mention abortion even once. And4800:03:35.530 --> 00:03:38.449you know that's sort of like oneof those questions where you're right. The4900:03:38.689 --> 00:03:46.879word abortion is not in the Bible, but the principle and God being against5000:03:46.879 --> 00:03:51.800abortion is in the Bible because,you know, from our perspective and from5100:03:51.879 --> 00:03:55.830the Biblical perspective, human beings havean intrinsic value. Human beings are made5200:03:55.870 --> 00:04:00.669in the image of God and it'swrong from old to New Testament, it's5300:04:00.789 --> 00:04:04.669wrong to destroy an innocent human life. Right, God is against it's this5400:04:04.949 --> 00:04:10.219the sixth command. So though theBible doesn't directly say thou shalt not have5500:04:10.300 --> 00:04:14.379an abortion, it does say theSixth Command and exit this chapter twenty,5600:04:14.620 --> 00:04:16.500thou shalt not kill or thou shaltnot murder. Right, right. So5700:04:16.660 --> 00:04:20.220it does mention abortion, right,and there's no exceptions on that. Shown5800:04:20.259 --> 00:04:25.769that murder. It doesn't say Thoushall not murder unless it's unborn human life,5900:04:25.810 --> 00:04:29.490or thou shall not murder unless you'rein really dire circumstances, or thou6000:04:29.569 --> 00:04:34.170shall not murder unless you're, youknow, wealthy and can drive a Mercedes.6100:04:34.649 --> 00:04:39.800So yeah, the unborn life isstill human life. Yeah, and6200:04:39.879 --> 00:04:43.639valuable before God. Right, right, solute, right. So how about6300:04:43.639 --> 00:04:48.800this one? Because because this one, this this part of abortion being mentioned.6400:04:49.959 --> 00:04:53.870Then they turn around, like yousaid, the the pro choice people,6500:04:53.910 --> 00:04:57.029and say, well, what aboutthis passage? Then that does mention6600:04:57.069 --> 00:05:02.149abortion, and they say and theysay it, it paints God as causing6700:05:02.189 --> 00:05:08.459an abortion. So so that's inexodus twenty one. Okay, versus twenty6800:05:08.540 --> 00:05:10.699two, hundred and twenty five.Are you? Are you turned there or6900:05:10.779 --> 00:05:13.819I can read it, but ifyou wanted, yeah, I'll turn there.7000:05:13.860 --> 00:05:16.939And this is actually, actually thispassage is not. You're maybe thinking7100:05:16.939 --> 00:05:19.899about the numbers passage. Okay,number, Chapter Five. Will get doing7200:05:19.980 --> 00:05:23.649just a minute. Okay, you'reright, but this passage is has to7300:05:23.730 --> 00:05:26.730do with you too. If twomen are fighting together, and you know,7400:05:26.730 --> 00:05:30.329there's sort of like we don't reallykind of grasp why this is mentioned7500:05:31.050 --> 00:05:35.000just like this. Obviously there wassomething going on where God, through Moses,7600:05:35.279 --> 00:05:39.360mentions this scenario, if two menare striving together, and I think7700:05:39.480 --> 00:05:43.160I know the point here, andsome pro abortion people will use it as7800:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.519a point to say abortions okay withGod, because you know, basically it7900:05:46.600 --> 00:05:48.959says if two men fight together,and this is in Verse Twenty Two of8000:05:49.670 --> 00:05:54.589Exodus Chapter Twenty one, if menfight together and hurt a woman, with8100:05:54.829 --> 00:05:59.589child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall8200:05:59.670 --> 00:06:03.149surely be punished according to the woman'shusband or what the woman's husband imposes on8300:06:03.230 --> 00:06:06.899him, and he shall pay asthe judge, as a judge's determined.8400:06:06.980 --> 00:06:11.540So if men fighting together like they'rebound, they're fighting each other, they're,8500:06:12.259 --> 00:06:14.579you know, angry with each otherfor whatever reason, and they hit8600:06:14.620 --> 00:06:17.569a pregnant woman and obviously if theyhit a pregnant woman there's harm to her.8700:06:17.889 --> 00:06:20.930So what a pro abortion person willsay? Well, it's talking about8800:06:20.930 --> 00:06:25.290if there's any harm to her.Well, it's implied that there's going to8900:06:25.370 --> 00:06:28.769be harm to her. The harmthat it's talking about later on, as9000:06:28.810 --> 00:06:30.649it goes on to say. Butif harm follows, then you shall give9100:06:30.970 --> 00:06:35.279life for life. The harm thatfollows is this. If she is if9200:06:35.360 --> 00:06:42.279she gives birth prematurely because of thisscuffle between these two men and they hit9300:06:42.319 --> 00:06:46.079her and the baby's okay, thenhe's just going to have to pay according9400:06:46.079 --> 00:06:49.269to what the husband but if thereis harm, which if the baby dies,9500:06:50.149 --> 00:06:55.149then he will give life for life. Right. So, rather than9600:06:55.189 --> 00:06:59.870it being that God's okay with apremature birth here and potentially you know,9700:07:00.029 --> 00:07:03.339and induced abortion from two men fightingtogether and hitting a pregnant woman. It's9800:07:03.339 --> 00:07:08.660actually establishing the value of that unbornlife, that that is a life for9900:07:08.779 --> 00:07:13.180life. That baby dies, thenthat guy who perpetrated that that crime is10000:07:13.259 --> 00:07:15.290going to lose his life as well. That's right. So that interpretation obviously10100:07:15.449 --> 00:07:19.529counters what the pro choice people aresaying, because in that they are saying10200:07:19.649 --> 00:07:26.009that if she gives birth prematurely butthere is no serious injury, that it10300:07:26.290 --> 00:07:30.600is talking about the woman, thatthere's no serious injury to the woman,10400:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.519but that the baby, they're assuminghas died. Yeah, doesn't say that.10500:07:33.720 --> 00:07:38.319Yeah, there are babies that areborn prematurely that live, but the10600:07:38.439 --> 00:07:41.600next verse, and so they're saying. And then in the next the next10700:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.709portion of the verse, when itsays that if there is serious injury,10800:07:46.310 --> 00:07:47.949you are to take life for life, and they're saying, but that applies10900:07:48.029 --> 00:07:53.670to the woman. Well know,to me that is in direct directly saying11000:07:53.750 --> 00:07:57.310there is serious injury to the baby. Not only is it born prematurely,11100:07:57.430 --> 00:08:00.939but it's they're serious injury. Yeah, and it sounds like death, because11200:08:00.980 --> 00:08:05.740then it says then you are totake life for life. So the the11300:08:07.139 --> 00:08:11.220what I've heard the pro choice peoplesay is in that that that this shows11400:08:11.420 --> 00:08:16.810that that the baby is just property. Yeah, and so there's can be11500:08:16.009 --> 00:08:22.009a fine paid if the baby dies. But I don't think that's what that's11600:08:22.050 --> 00:08:24.290what these verses are saying, andthat's what that's what you find. Yeah,11700:08:24.290 --> 00:08:28.000beatrue. Yeah, I think ratherthan saying that God is okay with11800:08:28.040 --> 00:08:33.120an abortion of the situation. Yeah, actually the opposite exactly is being conveyed11900:08:33.240 --> 00:08:37.279here, that if she gives birthprematurely, the baby's okay, then they're12000:08:37.279 --> 00:08:41.710going to pay a fine. Yeah, if she gives birth prematurely in the12100:08:41.750 --> 00:08:46.269baby dies, then it's going tobe the death penalty for the person who12200:08:46.830 --> 00:08:50.070effectively caused this. Correct this babycorrect. So here is something that that12300:08:50.269 --> 00:08:54.029when I first heard this, itkind of took me aback and I didn't12400:08:54.029 --> 00:08:56.419quite know how to deal with it. And and now I you know,12500:08:56.740 --> 00:09:01.059upon further study, will know ofthis is actually supports a pro life position.12600:09:01.059 --> 00:09:03.940Yeah, so, and it's notjust in you, my opinion,12700:09:05.019 --> 00:09:09.059your opinion, if many commentaries aboutthis passage of scripture, it's but you12800:09:09.139 --> 00:09:13.889know, if their commentaries that arethat are seasoned by you left this political12900:09:13.929 --> 00:09:16.889persuasions. They'll try to add anythingin there, but the vast majority of13000:09:18.730 --> 00:09:24.279commentaries about this particular passage are goingto say just what we're saying. And13100:09:24.519 --> 00:09:30.399even those who might have it anagenda to think abortion is okay would have13200:09:30.480 --> 00:09:35.159a hard time doing some sort ofHermoneutical backflips in order to make that imply13300:09:35.360 --> 00:09:39.549that God's okay with an abortion.The baby's just property right, exactly okay.13400:09:39.590 --> 00:09:41.590And so that the next one,which is the one I thought I13500:09:41.669 --> 00:09:45.669was giving you the first one.So that that's the the one from from13600:09:45.669 --> 00:09:48.429numbers right. Yep, number shipI five. Ever, this a lot13700:09:48.629 --> 00:09:52.220from from pro choice people again,people who are saying, you know,13800:09:52.379 --> 00:09:56.100the Bible really has no validity tolife. Why? You know, one13900:09:56.179 --> 00:09:58.820pro choice lady told me of theday the problem is with that book,14000:09:58.100 --> 00:10:01.980it's points that my Bible, thatbook. That's your problem because you cling14100:10:01.100 --> 00:10:05.059to that thing. And yet sheand some of the other pro abortion people14200:10:05.059 --> 00:10:09.129have brought the passage, this passagefrom that book, exactly about why.14300:10:09.289 --> 00:10:13.009You know, you shouldn't be incourage, you shouldn't be least against abortion.14400:10:13.129 --> 00:10:18.570Actually, God not only is okaywith it, he actually induces an abortion14500:10:18.649 --> 00:10:22.759right and numbers checks. That's whatthey claim. Right again, when I14600:10:22.919 --> 00:10:28.360first read it, I'm going totell you true confessions. I was I14700:10:28.519 --> 00:10:35.440was reading Niv translation and if youread the NIV translation, they they actually14800:10:35.559 --> 00:10:37.870have a point. But I knowyou have done some further research in that.14900:10:37.990 --> 00:10:41.389So what don't you maybe read usthis passage and tell us what?15000:10:41.669 --> 00:10:43.190Yeah, so I'll give you thescenario rather than the reading through the whole15100:10:43.269 --> 00:10:46.350thing. I give you sort ofthe the scenario. People can read this15200:10:46.470 --> 00:10:52.820themselves. Number, Chapter Five,verses eleven through thirty one, thirty one,15300:10:52.019 --> 00:10:56.340leventy thirty one. The basically thescenario is this. A man suspects15400:10:56.379 --> 00:11:01.220that his wife has committed adultery andso he's to bring his wife before the15500:11:01.259 --> 00:11:03.730priest. Right, all right.So he brings his wife before the priest15600:11:05.129 --> 00:11:09.210and it says the priest actually willtake in verse seventeen, the Preestshall Take15700:11:09.289 --> 00:11:13.409Holy Water in an earthen vessel andtake some dust from the floor of the15800:11:13.490 --> 00:11:16.850Tabernacle and put it into the water. So the picture here is, you15900:11:16.929 --> 00:11:20.600know, the Tabernacle is the holyplace. There's the holiest of holies,16000:11:20.679 --> 00:11:24.039which is where the where the Arkof the Covenant Duels and the priest can16100:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.600only enter in once a year,right, but this place still, the16200:11:26.639 --> 00:11:30.840Tabernacle, is a holy place.So you have this holy water that's there16300:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.669and you have this holy dust.You know, it's sort of looks back16400:11:33.710 --> 00:11:37.830to the picture of Moses. Takeyour sandals off, because the ground on16500:11:37.870 --> 00:11:39.990which you stand is holy grounds.It is holy ground that this priest is16600:11:41.029 --> 00:11:45.750putting in this chalice of water andto give this woman. And this from16700:11:45.789 --> 00:11:50.100some pro abortion people, they thinkthis is sort of like the abortion medication,16800:11:50.259 --> 00:11:54.100like the abortion pill of Moses Day, right, that God somehow,16900:11:54.500 --> 00:11:58.419through the dust and the water,induces an abortion. And here's what it17000:11:58.500 --> 00:12:03.610says, just kind of skimming ondown he's he says, and May this17100:12:03.850 --> 00:12:07.730water that causes the curse to goin this verse, twenty two, to17200:12:07.809 --> 00:12:11.610go in your stomach, make yourbelly swell and your thigh rot. Then17300:12:11.649 --> 00:12:13.970the woman shall say Amen, sobe it. And and so, basically,17400:12:15.759 --> 00:12:18.879if she drinks this water, thisthis water with the dust in it,17500:12:18.279 --> 00:12:22.240and she is guilty of adultery,like her husband suspects, then her17600:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.799belly will swell and her thigh willrot. Now determined by God. Right,17700:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.470this is how God said that thiswas to be determined. Yeah,17800:12:31.470 --> 00:12:33.990versus correct? Yeah, yeah,absolutely, and this is sort of this17900:12:35.110 --> 00:12:39.470is God's prescription. Right and andthis is an issue for the husband thinks18000:12:39.509 --> 00:12:43.629his wife has been in an adulter'sfair takes before the priest dust and water,18100:12:43.830 --> 00:12:46.820she drinks it and then if sheis guilty, then her her belly18200:12:46.860 --> 00:12:52.899will swell and her thigh will rot. I've read this passage in several different18300:12:52.940 --> 00:12:56.500translations because I never heard this argumentbefore until he will, you know,18400:12:56.620 --> 00:13:00.850probably for or five years ago.Heard this argument and you know, I18500:13:00.929 --> 00:13:03.570looked into it and I'm like,I just don't see what you're talking about,18600:13:03.570 --> 00:13:05.169and then, you know, youread it in the in IV translation.18700:13:05.289 --> 00:13:09.889The INNOVAT IN IV's, I'm awareof, is the only translation that18800:13:09.970 --> 00:13:13.440mentions anything about reproduction, miscarriage oranything like that, and it says that18900:13:13.840 --> 00:13:18.159she will have a miscarriage, ratherthan her bailly will swear her Thihi Rot,19000:13:18.519 --> 00:13:20.679she'll have a miscarriage. Correct.And you know, I talked to,19100:13:20.919 --> 00:13:26.000actually sent an email to Dr MichaelBrown, who does ask Dr Brown19200:13:26.080 --> 00:13:28.870Dot Org, who's Hebrew scholar,and I sent an email to their team19300:13:28.870 --> 00:13:31.309and just said Hey, listen,I know that this is not talking about19400:13:31.309 --> 00:13:35.230an abortion. I've studied this thingout, but I'm not a Hebrew scholar.19500:13:35.750 --> 00:13:39.950Is there any language in here thatsays anything, implies anything about a19600:13:39.350 --> 00:13:43.419God induced abortion? And the responsewas no, this it's not talking about19700:13:43.419 --> 00:13:48.379abortion at all. It's talking abouta judgment says her belly will swell and19800:13:48.419 --> 00:13:50.860her thigh. We're right, thisis a judgment that's going to come up19900:13:50.860 --> 00:13:54.620on or her right. But what'sinterested in? Kind of a another perspective20000:13:54.889 --> 00:14:00.210that they brought out from from DrMichael Brown was, and I think he20100:14:00.250 --> 00:14:03.250has an article on his website evenabout this, this passage, and there's20200:14:03.289 --> 00:14:07.929a lot of articles out there aboutthis passage from from Hebrew scholars and whatnot.20300:14:07.649 --> 00:14:13.360Is that, even if it isso a quote God induced abortion right,20400:14:13.399 --> 00:14:16.320it's not in the language is notthere. You have to make it20500:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.799say what you want it to sayif you're going to inject that into the20600:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.590passage. And why they NV translatorsdid that? have no idea, but20700:14:24.710 --> 00:14:30.070they did. Yeah, but basically, even if it did speak of abortion,20800:14:30.389 --> 00:14:33.350it's in the context of a curselike this would be a curse to20900:14:33.509 --> 00:14:37.149her right to used her child throughan abortion. It wasn't exert it's no,21000:14:37.309 --> 00:14:41.220wasn't then preserve her life the wayshe might be anything like that.21100:14:41.779 --> 00:14:46.740It's first it's a judgment right,because you know in this day, in21200:14:46.940 --> 00:14:50.740Moses Day, children, unlike today, for a lot of people, were21300:14:50.779 --> 00:14:54.730seen as a blessing. So tolose your child actually it would be a21400:14:54.889 --> 00:14:58.889curse, give Psalm on twenty seven. Children are a blessing from the Lord.21500:14:58.970 --> 00:15:01.210So, you know, I justsay that to say in our day21600:15:01.210 --> 00:15:03.850and age it might be seen asa blessing that she had some kind of21700:15:03.929 --> 00:15:07.159God induced abortion, because we havean upside down way of thinking. It21800:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.320would be one of the worst things. You know, you look at women21900:15:09.360 --> 00:15:13.080in the Old Testament would cry outto God, kill me if I can't22000:15:13.120 --> 00:15:16.879have any children. You know,that be so, so heavy on them22100:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.200to not be able to have children. But any you know, just just22200:15:20.480 --> 00:15:24.149in a brush through sort of readingof this, there's nothing about a god22300:15:24.350 --> 00:15:30.990induced abortion here. I think morethan anything, it can be to validate22400:15:31.029 --> 00:15:35.860a woman whose jealous husband thinks thatshe is commit an adults ee and and22500:15:37.220 --> 00:15:41.299you know, giving her sort oflike a covering from the Lord, like22600:15:41.460 --> 00:15:43.659she's not guilty of this thing becausethis is not what happened to her.22700:15:43.860 --> 00:15:48.379She shall be free. She's freefrom her husband's jealousy in that sense,22800:15:48.779 --> 00:15:56.490right. So you know bottom line. There are also so many verses that22900:15:56.649 --> 00:15:58.730talk about the value like, likeyou mentioned, Bait, children are a23000:15:58.809 --> 00:16:03.639blessing, and the value of theunborn baby, and and so, while23100:16:03.840 --> 00:16:08.840God may not specifically, the Bibledoesn't use the word abortion and as we've23200:16:08.840 --> 00:16:14.360shown in these two cases where peoplehave said pro choice, people will hear23300:16:14.639 --> 00:16:18.870descriptions of abortions when indeed they arenot. But you know, but the23400:16:18.950 --> 00:16:26.230Bible is filled with God's love ofthe unborn. Yeah, and and the23500:16:26.389 --> 00:16:30.389tender language he uses in like Psalmone hundred and thirty nine nine, verse23600:16:30.669 --> 00:16:34.419thirteen to sixteen. For you createdmy inmost being. You Knit me together23700:16:34.500 --> 00:16:38.899in my mother's womb. I praiseyou because I am fearfully and wonderfully made.23800:16:40.220 --> 00:16:42.899My frame was not hidden from youwhen I was made in that secret23900:16:42.940 --> 00:16:47.059place, when I was woven togetherin the depths of the earth, your24000:16:47.169 --> 00:16:49.730eyes saw my unformed body. Allthe days ordained for me were written in24100:16:49.809 --> 00:16:52.690your book before one of them cameto be. It's like poetry to the24200:16:52.730 --> 00:16:56.370unborn. Yeah, God has saidso, you know, gently and lovingly24300:16:56.529 --> 00:17:03.159knit it together, that that childso and certainly calls it a baby.24400:17:03.839 --> 00:17:11.039So so bottom line number one.The Bible doesn't mention abortion even once.24500:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.029Yeah, it tells us the concept. We have the Prince Sara, we24600:17:15.190 --> 00:17:19.230have the principle. So you knowjust the you before we move on to24700:17:19.309 --> 00:17:23.710that. Next the pro choice argument, you know that there's a lot of24800:17:23.829 --> 00:17:27.910things the Bible doesn't directly mention.Good Point. I mean the Bible doesn't24900:17:27.990 --> 00:17:33.740directly mention pit PHELIA. Correct.Yeah, would anybody argue that God's okay25000:17:33.779 --> 00:17:37.900with pedophilia because God never mentions it? I mean certainly the principles are there25100:17:38.460 --> 00:17:42.059that this is wrong and sinful inthe sight of God? Yes, the25200:17:42.299 --> 00:17:47.250the Bible doesn't mention smoke and crack. Right. I don't know. Think25300:17:47.289 --> 00:17:52.450anyone would argue, biblical or otherwise, that God's okay with people smoking crack.25400:17:52.529 --> 00:17:55.089Right, there's certain principles there inyour body is a temple of the25500:17:55.210 --> 00:17:59.119Lord, those sort of things.So there's a lot of stuff that the25600:17:59.200 --> 00:18:03.680Bible doesn't directly mention. That doesn'ttherefore give God's okay, and thumbs up25700:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.599to your behavior just because you knowthe Bible doesn't mention it. And again25800:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.720it. You know, it's justa it's a it's a tactic. It's25900:18:10.720 --> 00:18:14.950a maneuver for pro abortion people tosay, well, you're a book doesn't26000:18:14.950 --> 00:18:18.150mention the thing that you're so stronglyagainst and it you know, if you26100:18:18.230 --> 00:18:23.069read Church history, although church historyis not our standard. Our Standard is26200:18:23.150 --> 00:18:26.500the Bible, right, but yousee men and women throughout church history and26300:18:26.619 --> 00:18:32.660their riotings, certainly very early inchurch history. The dedcay is a writing26400:18:32.940 --> 00:18:37.019that's a compilation of some of theapostles teaching and it directly mentions abortion as26500:18:37.059 --> 00:18:41.609abhorrent to God. It's something thatshould be involved. If you reach your26600:18:41.609 --> 00:18:45.410early church history, you see abortionand infanticide, or two things that they26700:18:45.450 --> 00:18:48.609are tied together. Ye, thatare abhorn to the church. The church26800:18:48.769 --> 00:18:55.690has always opposed and those who belongto God should always oppose these things because26900:18:56.119 --> 00:19:03.319they're the devaluing of human life rightthere, the devaluing of this this creature27000:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.640that God has made in his ownimage. Human beings are the only creature27100:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.230that God made it his own image. So right, yeah, okay.27200:19:11.630 --> 00:19:17.430So number two. Here this againall the time. The baby is not27300:19:17.589 --> 00:19:23.069a baby till it takes its firstbreath. Yes, so, so,27400:19:23.150 --> 00:19:26.460okay, I'm going to I'm goingto let you talk from the Biblical perspective.27500:19:26.460 --> 00:19:30.579I'm going to give a secular perspectivethat I just read and I and27600:19:30.660 --> 00:19:34.700I found it just I had knownthis about the American College pediatrics, not27700:19:34.819 --> 00:19:41.009a religious group, their secular groupdoctors who who work with babies and children27800:19:41.690 --> 00:19:47.170and the the name of this articleis statement life issues. When human life27900:19:47.170 --> 00:19:51.410begins? Yeah, and it's publishedby the American College Pediatrics. And so28000:19:51.529 --> 00:19:52.799the abstract says, I'm going toread it to you because I think it28100:19:52.880 --> 00:19:57.119is really important. Okay, itsaid the abstract of this of this article.28200:19:57.240 --> 00:20:04.799The predominance of Human Biological Research Confirmsthat human life begins at conception fertilization.28300:20:04.880 --> 00:20:10.710At fertilization, the human being emergesas a whole, genetically distinct,28400:20:10.910 --> 00:20:17.990individuated, psygotic, living human organism, a member of the species homo sapiens,28500:20:18.549 --> 00:20:22.700needing only the proper environment in orderto grow and develop. The difference28600:20:22.779 --> 00:20:27.900between the Individual in it's a adultstage and in its psychotic stage is one28700:20:27.980 --> 00:20:34.339of form not. Nature never changes, never changes from nonhuman to human,28800:20:34.809 --> 00:20:41.009always human. This statement focus ison the scientific evidence of when an individual28900:20:41.170 --> 00:20:49.079life, human life, excuse me, begins, and then later on the29000:20:49.160 --> 00:20:57.200there their conclusion at the end ofthe abstract is that the college, the29100:20:57.319 --> 00:21:04.549American College of Pediatrics, therefore opposesactive measures that would prematurely end the life29200:21:04.589 --> 00:21:11.029of any child at any stage ofdevelopment, from conception to natural death.29300:21:11.349 --> 00:21:15.309And there was one other statement thatI thought was really another, really important29400:21:15.309 --> 00:21:22.019one. Nonetheless, one could sensiblymake the case that personhood can only exist29500:21:22.180 --> 00:21:27.259in a living human being and thatthe division of these two entities is arbitrary29600:21:27.299 --> 00:21:30.220at best, because we hear thisall the time. We can we can29700:21:30.460 --> 00:21:36.210bring logically, as American College ofPediatrics did. We can bring people logically29800:21:36.609 --> 00:21:41.410from the idea that, okay,even from the moment of conception, what29900:21:41.650 --> 00:21:45.930is growing in the womb? I'llgive you it's a human being, but30000:21:45.049 --> 00:21:48.599it's not a person. You've heardthat right, I've heard it all the30100:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.960time. It's personhood, is thebig deal. But the American loge pediatrics30200:21:53.319 --> 00:21:57.640scientist, who are not religious,so I mean they maybe, but they30300:21:57.680 --> 00:22:04.269are not a religious organization, andthey say that that distinction between admitting it's30400:22:04.269 --> 00:22:11.750a living human being and that it'sa person is an arbitrary distinction, yes,30500:22:11.910 --> 00:22:14.990not one drawn in fact or science. Yeah, so, yeah,30600:22:15.109 --> 00:22:18.220you know this, this person whooditself, is not a scientific statement.30700:22:18.259 --> 00:22:22.380It's a philosophical state. So tooto argue that, you know, personhood30800:22:22.460 --> 00:22:27.819happens at some point because science isso it is an absurdity. Like science30900:22:29.140 --> 00:22:33.130can't do certain things. It can'ttell us when a when a, when31000:22:33.170 --> 00:22:36.410a human being becomes a person,right, and if it tries to,31100:22:36.529 --> 00:22:38.490it steps outside of its boundary.Yeah, you know, in this this31200:22:38.809 --> 00:22:42.009sort of question, which I've heard, and it sort of takes different forms,31300:22:42.049 --> 00:22:45.480right, maybe it takes a formof, you know, it's not31400:22:45.559 --> 00:22:48.839a baby or it's not a humanbeing, it's not a life valuable enough31500:22:48.839 --> 00:22:51.720to protect until it takes its firstbreath. Or you know, there was31600:22:51.759 --> 00:22:56.440a video by a prolife lady inCanada, who forget her names, on31700:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.430facebook who had this video of themagic birth canal. Oh, yeah,31800:23:00.430 --> 00:23:03.390that was funny. Yeah, it'slike the birth canalk somehow has this magic31900:23:03.829 --> 00:23:10.309power to undue personhood to an individual, and it's some an absurdity, right.32000:23:10.509 --> 00:23:12.420It is because at what point,I mean you just logically say,32100:23:12.460 --> 00:23:18.220okay, at which point in thatprogression did it suddenly more from human to32200:23:18.339 --> 00:23:22.019non human person and nonperson? Yeah, or nine person to person? Yeah.32300:23:22.299 --> 00:23:25.220It's sort of ridiculous in this wholenotion that you when it takes its32400:23:25.259 --> 00:23:27.529first of breath, and when peopleuse that argument, especially, you know,32500:23:27.890 --> 00:23:33.450pro pro choice, people who havereally no faith in God use that,32600:23:33.609 --> 00:23:38.009it's sort of a mechanism to useyour book against you, to say32700:23:38.089 --> 00:23:41.960you're the Bible actually teaches that it'snot a person until it takes its first32800:23:41.000 --> 00:23:44.519breath. And sort of where theyget that, prince, when I actually32900:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.720heard Christians, at least people whoclaim to be Christians, use that as33000:23:48.720 --> 00:23:56.630almost a way to get out ofaddressing this issue, which is the moral33100:23:56.670 --> 00:23:59.230issue of our day, abortion.But they'll say, well, you know,33200:23:59.390 --> 00:24:03.470the Bible tells us that it actuallydoesn't become a person or a valuable33300:24:03.630 --> 00:24:07.150individual until it takes a first breath. And they get that maybe from some33400:24:07.309 --> 00:24:12.339other passages, but probably more thananything from this passage in genesis chapter two,33500:24:12.380 --> 00:24:15.099very early along in the Bible,okay, where it says in verse33600:24:15.180 --> 00:24:19.779seven of Genesis Chapter Two and theLord formed man of the dust of the33700:24:19.859 --> 00:24:25.450ground and breathed into his nostrils thebreath of life and man became a living33800:24:25.529 --> 00:24:29.410being. So the implication is hebreathed into his nostrils a breath of life.33900:24:29.690 --> 00:24:33.609Therefore the man became a living being. Right, and that's that's sort34000:24:33.609 --> 00:24:37.289of with it. So until itgets a breath of life, it's not34100:24:37.369 --> 00:24:41.680a living being, which is notwhat this passage just talking about. It's34200:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.359an absurdity to imagine that a babyin the womb is not a living being.34300:24:45.960 --> 00:24:48.960It is a living me. Ofcourse it is right. Even again,34400:24:49.079 --> 00:24:52.789pro choice people in this day andage would not argue. Is it34500:24:52.910 --> 00:24:56.789Alife? Yes, it's a life, it's just not a life that's valuable34600:24:56.829 --> 00:25:00.269enough to protect. Right have heardis this argument of insolment. It's not34700:25:00.309 --> 00:25:03.509a life until it gets a soul. When does it get a soul?34800:25:03.950 --> 00:25:07.539It gets a soul, some peoplesay, when it gets its first breath34900:25:07.579 --> 00:25:10.579of air. The Bible doesn't teachthat. The Bible doesn't say that.35000:25:10.740 --> 00:25:14.980What we see is this sort ofoverarching principle in the scripture that God loves35100:25:15.140 --> 00:25:18.140and knows us. Why we're stillin our mother's way. That's correct.35200:25:18.140 --> 00:25:22.170Yeah, so that's that's sort ofthe overarching principle. We see through the35300:25:22.250 --> 00:25:26.849whole Old Testament in the New Testament, that God knows us and loves us35400:25:26.049 --> 00:25:30.809even while we're in the womb andthat there's not some magical thing that takes35500:25:30.809 --> 00:25:33.130place when we enter out of thewomb, we breathe in some air that35600:25:33.250 --> 00:25:37.279gives us personhood. Right, right, so that you know that that argument35700:25:37.359 --> 00:25:41.920again, is is sort of bunkingit. But it does take different forms.35800:25:41.279 --> 00:25:47.440It does the breath thing, thebirth canal thing, the disconnection between35900:25:47.480 --> 00:25:48.720the mother and the child, youknow. So it's like, okay,36000:25:48.759 --> 00:25:53.589because that baby is attached to themother through you, through her uterine wall,36100:25:53.670 --> 00:25:57.869the Placenta is attached there and thenthrough the umbilical cord. That therefore36200:25:59.190 --> 00:26:02.390she can do what she wants to. So then a baby can be born.36300:26:02.430 --> 00:26:03.299I mean, is that what you'resaying? A baby can be born36400:26:03.460 --> 00:26:07.819still attached to the umbilical cord andthen we can kill it. Long as36500:26:07.859 --> 00:26:08.779we don't cut that cord, we'regood to go. And there are some36600:26:08.900 --> 00:26:12.460people that say yeah, that,which is another certain it's the slippery slope36700:26:12.539 --> 00:26:15.900that is that it goes down.Let's free slopes. No, they don't36800:26:15.940 --> 00:26:19.450exist. That's the mentality, rightyou. You always talk about these slippery36900:26:19.490 --> 00:26:22.250slopes and this could happen and thatcould happen. It's like, well,37000:26:22.529 --> 00:26:27.009we talked about that, because itactually does happen. Like the whole slippery37100:26:27.049 --> 00:26:33.480slope of you know, when wetalk about euthanasia and assisted suicide and people37200:26:33.480 --> 00:26:37.759say, yeah, people should bewilling or people should be able to choose37300:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.119to have a doctor put them todeath, to have them youth and eyes37400:26:41.200 --> 00:26:45.440if they have, you know,issues with dementia or if they have issues37500:26:45.519 --> 00:26:48.589with whatever. And then this storythat I had shared with you a couple37600:26:48.630 --> 00:26:52.150days ago, yesterday I believe,was about a young lady, I think37700:26:52.190 --> 00:26:56.990she's twenty one, twenty two yearsold, who had some trauma and something37800:26:56.109 --> 00:27:00.430was done to her in the pastand she carried that trauma with her and37900:27:00.549 --> 00:27:03.980she went to her psychiatrist and psychiatristhave tried to help or try to help38000:27:03.019 --> 00:27:06.259her, could not help her basicallytold her hate. Listen, there's no38100:27:06.339 --> 00:27:08.259hope for you. I think thestory played out in the Netherlands, which38200:27:08.299 --> 00:27:11.980is no surprise right. Right,there's really no hope for you, the38300:27:11.019 --> 00:27:15.970best thing you can do is justlet us euthanize you, and they did.38400:27:15.769 --> 00:27:18.650For you know this, this younglady who had, you know,38500:27:18.730 --> 00:27:22.329her whole life ahead of her.Yes, she had some issues going on,38600:27:22.609 --> 00:27:26.890she had some depression and all thatstuff, but the people who are38700:27:26.930 --> 00:27:30.480supposed to help her out of thatdepression basically tell her you're better off dead.38800:27:30.519 --> 00:27:36.200Right man, that's a slippery slippingslide right west, slide so far38900:27:36.359 --> 00:27:40.200down that human life doesn't have value. Exactly, exactly, in so many39000:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.640of the ills that we face nowtoday, it's a society or because of39100:27:42.720 --> 00:27:48.349that devaluation of human life that isso shootings, I think, are an39200:27:48.390 --> 00:27:51.150example. Yeah, absolutely. Howcan you two? How can we raise39300:27:51.190 --> 00:27:55.509our children to believe it's not okayto go off all of your classmates when39400:27:55.829 --> 00:27:59.380it's the law of the land thatwe can kill your siblings as long as39500:27:59.380 --> 00:28:03.099they're in the womb? Yeah,so, the the Bible does use the39600:28:03.140 --> 00:28:06.819same word for baby, whether inthe womb or outside of the woman.39700:28:06.900 --> 00:28:11.539I think that's another very compelling evidencethat chapter two, when it talks about39800:28:11.539 --> 00:28:15.329right John the Baptist in the womb. He lipt in his mother's womb when39900:28:15.369 --> 00:28:18.210Mary came in with Jesus in herwomb. Right, the word child,40000:28:18.369 --> 00:28:23.009the child left in the womb.Right, breathos, Brefoos is the same40100:28:23.089 --> 00:28:27.240word. Later on in Luke.Yeah, we're Jesus. The born Jesus40200:28:27.880 --> 00:28:33.359outside of the womb is called breathos, which is bababy. It means baby.40300:28:33.440 --> 00:28:34.960So baby in the womb is thesame to God as the baby.40400:28:36.200 --> 00:28:38.640So in the New Testament, Godis equating an unborn child with a born40500:28:38.680 --> 00:28:41.190child. Yes, wow, that'snot a surprise now, you know,40600:28:41.589 --> 00:28:47.230because we see through again that patternin the scripture absolutely values this in the40700:28:47.269 --> 00:28:49.750women outside the way. Yeah,yeah, I mean Jeremiah was supposed appointed40800:28:49.789 --> 00:28:53.390as a prophet while yet in thewomb. Yeah, appointed a prophet.40900:28:53.509 --> 00:28:57.779Well, is God appointing a nonhumanand not baby Blab of kiss you as41000:28:57.779 --> 00:29:02.619a prophet? Yeah, okay.So onto number three, and they all41100:29:02.740 --> 00:29:07.579kind of connect there. there.There's very similar arguments behind all these issues.41200:29:07.660 --> 00:29:11.970But this one, of course,is the rattling and cry here for41300:29:11.089 --> 00:29:15.970the Pro Choice Smith ment or mybody, body choice, my body,41400:29:17.089 --> 00:29:21.730my choice. Yeah, I meanthat one sort of you know it again41500:29:21.849 --> 00:29:26.480in the same line of this thissovereignty over your own body and which we41600:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.279agree with that right. I mean, if someone goes and has their appendix41700:29:30.359 --> 00:29:34.000removed, I'm not going to bestanding there telling them don't have your beach.41800:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.160Right, I don't want to havecontrol over their bodies. Right.41900:29:37.750 --> 00:29:42.829But where your bodily autonomy ends iswhere your bodily autonomy and decisions you make42000:29:42.910 --> 00:29:45.549with your body affect other people.Correct. You know the example. Of42100:29:45.630 --> 00:29:51.029course you have bodily autonomy over yourhand. Yes, you do. You42200:29:51.150 --> 00:29:52.779can, you know, do someof the things you want to with your42300:29:52.819 --> 00:29:56.500hand, but there are things youcannot do with your hand. It's because42400:29:56.500 --> 00:30:00.220they violate another person's right, whichis you can't ball your hand in a42500:30:00.380 --> 00:30:04.779fifth connect with somebody's face. Right, because your action and your bodily autonomy42600:30:04.819 --> 00:30:08.369has now affected another person. Right. In the same way, with abortion,42700:30:08.849 --> 00:30:12.490your bodily autonomy, when you gointo an abortion clinic and you decide42800:30:12.730 --> 00:30:17.049you're going to pay someone money tokill it, the child that's inside of42900:30:17.089 --> 00:30:22.039you, that sort of is thethreshold. Right, you've already went outside43000:30:22.039 --> 00:30:26.160of bodily autonomy to violate the bodilyautonomy of another person, that baby inside43100:30:26.160 --> 00:30:29.920the womb. Right, and ofcourse, this is built on the premise43200:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.880that the baby inside the womb isjust an ananimate object. So you see43300:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.470how it aboulates. All of thesearguments relate exactly because they would say,43400:30:37.509 --> 00:30:41.630well, this is not another body, right. But but then of course,43500:30:41.789 --> 00:30:45.710the logically. You know, well, if it's not another body,43600:30:45.869 --> 00:30:52.059than the mother has two heads andforearms and four legs. Know it is43700:30:52.099 --> 00:30:56.059another body. It is not yourbody. That child is a whole separate43800:30:56.180 --> 00:31:00.980body with distinct and separate human DNA, distinct and separate blood, distinct and43900:31:02.059 --> 00:31:04.730separate heartbeat and it at a differentrate. The heart is beating about three44000:31:04.730 --> 00:31:07.730times, two to three times fasterthan the MOM's heart. So so,44100:31:10.089 --> 00:31:12.009yeah, and and you know,Biblically, I love this, this verse44200:31:12.130 --> 00:31:15.170from First Corinthian six one thousand nine, Hun to and twenty. Do you44300:31:15.289 --> 00:31:18.440not know that your bodies are templesof the Holy Spirit who is in you,44400:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.960whom you have received from God?You are not your own, you44500:31:23.079 --> 00:31:26.680were brought bought at a price.Therefore, honor God with your body.44600:31:26.720 --> 00:31:33.470So we in a sense we evenbodily autonomy. Well, honestly, biblically,44700:31:33.509 --> 00:31:37.390we are not our own. Ifyou're in Christ he bought us.44800:31:37.430 --> 00:31:41.109Yeah, hate the penalty that weowed for our sin, and our bodies44900:31:41.190 --> 00:31:45.750are now a temple of the Lord, to be used by God for a45000:31:45.910 --> 00:31:52.900glorious purpose. Yeah, for hisglory. So okay, so, so,45100:31:53.940 --> 00:31:59.019and and one last point on onmy body, my choice. You45200:31:59.099 --> 00:32:04.210know it it in your example of, you know, bodily autonomy. In45300:32:04.250 --> 00:32:07.930there, in there, in theportion center in this this baby is is45400:32:08.490 --> 00:32:13.890being killed. Well, it's legal, and that's the other argument that I've45500:32:13.930 --> 00:32:17.880heard. Well, it's my body, this baby is in my body and45600:32:19.039 --> 00:32:25.200I'm being given legal rights by ourcountry to remove this portion of my body45700:32:25.680 --> 00:32:29.240that I don't want and I wantto be an incubator, I've heard.45800:32:29.279 --> 00:32:36.309Yeah, this baby. So isit because it's legal? Is Is that45900:32:36.630 --> 00:32:42.430then? Would God have us findthat to be morally fine, right,46000:32:42.670 --> 00:32:45.220which is, you know, kindof an absurdity, right. I mean,46100:32:45.619 --> 00:32:49.539just because stuff is legal doesn't meanGod is okay with it. Exactly.46200:32:49.700 --> 00:32:52.019Doesn't mean that. You know,even if we're thinking it from a46300:32:52.220 --> 00:32:54.859secular perspective, there's a bunch ofstuff that in our history. You know,46400:32:54.900 --> 00:32:59.569slavery is one of those things withlegal but I don't think we look46500:32:59.609 --> 00:33:00.769back that and say, you know, people should have had a right to46600:33:00.890 --> 00:33:05.930do that. Why? Why wouldwe say that? That's wrong? Because46700:33:05.930 --> 00:33:07.650it's sort of that bodily atommy thing, right, yeah, you're right to46800:33:07.809 --> 00:33:13.599own another person's property. Is Notactually a right that God gives or that46900:33:13.680 --> 00:33:19.160government's should give, because you're thenaffecting the bodily autonomy of another person,47000:33:19.599 --> 00:33:22.839you know. Yeah, and youknow the really that the the issue lies47100:33:23.119 --> 00:33:28.950in with pro choice people, theirunwillingness to view the baby in the womb47200:33:29.029 --> 00:33:35.549as a human being, as alife that's valuable enough to protect. They47300:33:35.750 --> 00:33:40.109can't, they can't and allow whatthey call the woman's right to choose,47400:33:40.150 --> 00:33:44.019because the women's right to choose,they're saying, is to choose abortion.47500:33:44.420 --> 00:33:47.099And the only way they can supportthat really, I think, for them47600:33:47.180 --> 00:33:51.420to feel like they are decent humanbeings, is to say it's not.47700:33:51.660 --> 00:33:55.250Yeah, it's not a person.Yeah. So, okay, anything else47800:33:55.369 --> 00:34:00.809on on that one? All right, let's go into number four. Abortion47900:34:00.130 --> 00:34:05.369is between a woman and her doctor. It is none of your business.48000:34:05.890 --> 00:34:07.650You ever hear that one before?I have heard that one. Yeah,48100:34:07.650 --> 00:34:12.280and you know that's not something thatwe hear commonly inside. While counseling.48200:34:12.320 --> 00:34:14.920Really it's not one of the objectionsthat we hear, even from pro choice48300:34:14.960 --> 00:34:17.800people. But as you're talking aboutthe issue of abortion on a national level48400:34:19.280 --> 00:34:22.320and a sort of a political level, yeah, that's what you hear a48500:34:22.400 --> 00:34:25.510lot. That's right. Politicians areterrible doctors, some of the signage that48600:34:25.590 --> 00:34:29.750you see, right, and andthat sort of thing. And and so48700:34:29.869 --> 00:34:32.949it's between a woman and her doctor. And now what's implied with that?48800:34:34.190 --> 00:34:37.989I mean, are we talking aboutbetween a woman and the OB doctor that48900:34:37.110 --> 00:34:39.780she sees on a regular basis?I mean even that, of course,49000:34:39.820 --> 00:34:44.059of be we're talking about another personthat will die if she has an abortion.49100:34:44.380 --> 00:34:45.500But really, when they say it'sbetween a woman and her doctor,49200:34:45.539 --> 00:34:50.219what they mean it's between the womanwho's paying for an abortion and the abortionist,49300:34:50.340 --> 00:34:52.449right, who she sees for likefive minutes, right, who she's49400:34:52.489 --> 00:34:55.650never met. Most of these womengoing into an abortion clinic, I mean49500:34:55.690 --> 00:35:00.650we I've had conversations with probably thousands, and I'm sure you've had conversations with49600:35:00.929 --> 00:35:02.849of thousands, or at least hundreds, of women going in. If you49700:35:02.889 --> 00:35:06.809ask him so, who is yourdoctor today? Who's going to be your49800:35:06.849 --> 00:35:08.760abortionist? They have no clue.That's right. So how can it be49900:35:08.880 --> 00:35:14.000between her and her doctor making thisdecision whenever? She's not even going to50000:35:14.039 --> 00:35:16.360even talk to the doctor, untilshe goes, until he walks in the50100:35:16.440 --> 00:35:21.000room, that do the five minuteabortion procedure or give her the Little Cup50200:35:21.119 --> 00:35:22.909with the pills in it? It'snot between her and her doctors. And50300:35:22.989 --> 00:35:27.869I've been told by many people leavingthat that have come and talk to us,50400:35:27.949 --> 00:35:30.070that that doctor, the abortionist,never said it word. Yeah,50500:35:30.110 --> 00:35:35.780that there was never any discussion.So this decision between the woman and her50600:35:35.980 --> 00:35:40.059doctor is non existence. Yeah,they're in there is a relationship. Oh50700:35:40.179 --> 00:35:45.780yeah, no, exactly. Howabout that? It's none of your business50800:35:45.219 --> 00:35:47.900that half of it. Is ita business to so it's none of your50900:35:49.059 --> 00:35:52.929business, which it's like, okay, it's none of my business, even51000:35:52.929 --> 00:35:55.809though innocent people are being killed,it's none of my business to intervene.51100:35:55.809 --> 00:36:00.449You know, somebody commented a coupledays ago on our social media page.51200:36:00.489 --> 00:36:04.090We shared a testimony of a momthat chose life, saw her baby on51300:36:04.130 --> 00:36:07.320the ultrasound, whose life for herbaby in this person, this pro abortion51400:36:07.360 --> 00:36:08.960person, commented and said, youknow, you should leave women alone.51500:36:09.280 --> 00:36:14.000It's none of your business what theydo with their bodies. And my response51600:36:14.159 --> 00:36:16.239wasn't a sort of snarky but itmade a point like, okay, if51700:36:16.280 --> 00:36:21.309Christians, if we see innocent peoplebeing killed, if we're going to be51800:36:21.429 --> 00:36:24.829good followers of Jesus, then we'regoing to actually go and do something about51900:36:24.989 --> 00:36:29.789that. If Christians in human historywere just to mind our own business,52000:36:30.110 --> 00:36:32.699then we wouldn't have the majority ofthe hospitals that exist, the majority of52100:36:32.739 --> 00:36:36.619the relief organizations that exist. Imean, you think about you know,52200:36:36.659 --> 00:36:38.820I asked pro abortion people when theywhen they bring that up. You guys52300:36:38.860 --> 00:36:43.980should mind your own business. YouChristians are Christianity has has done so much52400:36:43.980 --> 00:36:47.050damage in history. I'm like,well, named for me five hospitals in52500:36:47.130 --> 00:36:51.289the United States are in the immediatearea and if they were in the name52600:36:51.329 --> 00:36:55.010five hospitals, at least three,probably all five, but at least three52700:36:55.050 --> 00:36:59.610of those hospitals are going to beChristian hospitals, presenting hospital, Methodist Hospital,52800:36:59.650 --> 00:37:02.480Baptist Hospital, right, yeah,it's like Christians are not mining their52900:37:02.480 --> 00:37:07.239own business, they're actually building hospitalor they're actually you know, I'll ask53000:37:07.239 --> 00:37:09.840him. I said named for mefive relief organizations. You know ministries or53100:37:09.880 --> 00:37:14.760organizations that do things to help otherpeople. You know, Red Cross is53200:37:14.760 --> 00:37:17.789one that comes to mind right Samaritan'spurse or me comes to mind. SALVATION53300:37:17.829 --> 00:37:22.630ARMY COMES TO MIND, World Vision, World Vision comes to mind, compassion53400:37:22.710 --> 00:37:27.510international, all these these groups acrossthe the the world. Even if you're53500:37:27.590 --> 00:37:31.940the name five relief organizations, Ibet you the majority of those organizations were53600:37:31.980 --> 00:37:37.179started by Christians who didn't mind theirown business. Exactly right. And I53700:37:37.460 --> 00:37:39.780think it was hurricane katrine. Itwas one of the big hurricanes where the53800:37:39.820 --> 00:37:43.739government really blew it. They andI maybe it was Katrine night. Every53900:37:43.780 --> 00:37:46.289real it was. Which one?But but the the GOL blows it a54000:37:46.369 --> 00:37:49.849lot. Well, they did,but but in this one they really blew54100:37:49.889 --> 00:37:52.409it and they were just what's nothelp? MM? Except from the Christian54200:37:52.449 --> 00:37:58.130it was the Christian organizations that rushedin to help those victims from that hurricane54300:37:58.449 --> 00:38:01.800that saved the day. Yeah,minding, not minding, they're I mean,54400:38:01.840 --> 00:38:06.760basically, so when someone tells me, consider you talking about abortion and54500:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.440thinking about abortion and they see,mind your own business, what they're really54600:38:09.480 --> 00:38:13.829saying to me is turn a blindeye. You know, here's here's a54700:38:14.269 --> 00:38:19.150group of people whose lives are beingdestroyed by this thing called abortion. And54800:38:19.230 --> 00:38:22.030you don't mean just the babies,right, yeah, the women, women,54900:38:22.110 --> 00:38:24.070the woman parents, so the manwhose lives are affected by it.55000:38:24.150 --> 00:38:29.900I mean this thing is like alike a cancer in society. Destroys families,55100:38:29.900 --> 00:38:35.500that destroys marriages, it destroys relationships, it destroys young men and young55200:38:35.579 --> 00:38:38.260women, of course, and itdestroys the lives of babies. And it's55300:38:38.300 --> 00:38:40.449like, I can't turn a blindeye to that. Like, if I55400:38:40.570 --> 00:38:45.329truly believe that abortion is murder thatdestroys in innocent life, you're asking me,55500:38:46.170 --> 00:38:51.570pro abortion person, to deny myfaith, to deny what my Lord55600:38:51.650 --> 00:38:53.130said to do, which is tolove my neighbor as myself. Yeah,55700:38:53.530 --> 00:38:57.199and rescue those being out of way. Really, you know, people are55800:38:57.239 --> 00:39:00.079saying a lot of times, andI sort of rephrase this to pro abortion55900:39:00.119 --> 00:39:04.719people, sometimes I'd be like,so what you're saying is, rather than56000:39:04.760 --> 00:39:08.360carrying through the the convictions that Ihave myself, I should embrace your convictions.56100:39:08.840 --> 00:39:13.829My conviction is that the unborn childis out a life that deserves to56200:39:13.869 --> 00:39:16.429be protected. Your conviction is thatit's not. So what you're saying is56300:39:16.710 --> 00:39:21.630I should abandon my convictions and Ishould embrace yours. Are you trying to56400:39:21.670 --> 00:39:23.699force your morality on me? Youknow, you take away my choice.56500:39:23.739 --> 00:39:28.460Are just taking away my choice tobelieve how I see fit from this,56600:39:28.539 --> 00:39:31.820this book that you so vehemently opposed. Right, I I think it's God's56700:39:31.860 --> 00:39:35.699word. Am I okay to thinkthat? I'm okay to believe that that's56800:39:35.739 --> 00:39:38.849in less? So, yeah.Well, lastly, honestly, yes,56900:39:39.050 --> 00:39:43.690I mean that's the attack. Theattack is on the book, on the57000:39:43.769 --> 00:39:46.969Bible, right, on what God'sword says, and this unchangeable truth,57100:39:47.409 --> 00:39:52.730the foundation of everything that we areand believe, is, is is being57200:39:52.730 --> 00:39:55.840attacked in our society. Yeah,absolutely, and of course, along with57300:39:57.039 --> 00:40:00.800that comes this value of human life, this intrinsic value that human beings have57400:40:00.880 --> 00:40:06.400above and beyond other creatures. Yeah, it doesn't mean in the sense that,57500:40:06.679 --> 00:40:08.110you know, in our all,because we're so cute and precious whatever,57600:40:08.150 --> 00:40:13.070were somehow better than every other animal. It's not that at all.57700:40:13.349 --> 00:40:16.070It's just that human beings are theonly creature that is made in God's image.57800:40:16.110 --> 00:40:22.300That's right, that holds this imageof God. Yeah, and weird57900:40:22.380 --> 00:40:27.860like supposed to be those who hada conversation of the pro choice lady yesterday58000:40:28.260 --> 00:40:32.579and she talked about I'm not surethat human beings are more valued more than58100:40:32.739 --> 00:40:37.090other animals. So what other creatureon the face of the planet has been58200:40:37.130 --> 00:40:40.130given a charge to take care ofthe planet? Like you don't see whales58300:40:40.250 --> 00:40:45.130going and taking care of the planet, making sure we recycle, you know,58400:40:45.690 --> 00:40:47.570right, because they're the ones thatwe're taking care of. Like we're58500:40:47.570 --> 00:40:52.199sort of this this, this,as the Bible says, this rule or58600:40:52.280 --> 00:40:58.039under God over the creation. Right, befoot, fruitful, multiply, subdue58700:40:58.079 --> 00:41:00.079the earth and fill it. We'resupposed to subdue or have authority over the58800:41:00.119 --> 00:41:02.920earth. Yeah, and we're giventhe charge to take care of the planet,58900:41:02.960 --> 00:41:07.150all right, and we're given chargeto take care of it. We're59000:41:07.190 --> 00:41:10.110not there to trample it and destroyit. We Love we love the whales,59100:41:10.190 --> 00:41:15.869I love the way. Yes,but human beings are a special part59200:41:15.909 --> 00:41:20.340of God's creation. There's absolutely nodoubt about it. He tells us that59300:41:20.420 --> 00:41:22.619that we Lon are made in hisimage. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,59400:41:23.500 --> 00:41:27.019and in terms of that it's noneof your business. I think I may59500:41:27.059 --> 00:41:29.860have already said this first, butI'll say it again because it's such an59600:41:29.940 --> 00:41:35.210important one. Proverbs twelve, ifyou say, but we knew nothing about59700:41:35.329 --> 00:41:38.489this. Does not he who weighsthe heart perceive it? Does Not he59800:41:38.610 --> 00:41:44.170who guard your life know it?Will he not repay everyone according to what59900:41:44.329 --> 00:41:47.119they have done? We can't saywe don't know what abortion is. We60000:41:47.239 --> 00:41:52.920can't say anymore like they could.Actually, when abortion was legalized or made60100:41:52.960 --> 00:41:57.079the law of the land through theSupreme Court decision, they didn't have the60200:41:57.119 --> 00:42:01.070ultrasounds that we have now. Theyreally didn't have the depth of understanding,60300:42:01.110 --> 00:42:07.309yeah, of what that baby wasand how well developed that baby was at60400:42:07.469 --> 00:42:10.710such an early age. But wedo. We see it. Not only60500:42:10.789 --> 00:42:14.909do we have God's word that saysthat baby is valuable from the moment of60600:42:15.030 --> 00:42:19.739conception, but we have windows intothe womb and we see that child and60700:42:19.820 --> 00:42:24.900we know the devastation of abortion.And so much of the aftermath of abortion60800:42:25.099 --> 00:42:29.980is buried and covered up and we'retold that we're lying all the time when60900:42:30.010 --> 00:42:35.570we cite any of the research thattalks of any negative after effects abortion.61000:42:35.690 --> 00:42:38.170But we do know the truth.And for us to do nothing about it,61100:42:38.210 --> 00:42:44.050according to this person, many Godwill hold us to account yeah,61200:42:44.090 --> 00:42:45.960we are not. We can't turna blond, we cannot turn upon yeah,61300:42:46.039 --> 00:42:50.119exactly. Okay, let's do ourfifth one. All right, bringing61400:42:50.199 --> 00:42:53.920up the right. This is ourlast one. Why should more unwanted children61500:42:54.400 --> 00:43:00.429come into the world? It isirresponsible. Go help the babies who are61600:43:00.469 --> 00:43:02.989already born, and of course lately. And what about those babies on the61700:43:04.110 --> 00:43:06.670board? What about those children atthe border who are put in cages?61800:43:06.750 --> 00:43:09.989And that's any thing. And ofcourse that implies that Christians aren't doing something61900:43:10.110 --> 00:43:13.940out. That's a big priest suffer. So that's right. Yeah, and62000:43:14.019 --> 00:43:15.820the thing, you know, Ihear a lot of times wance, you62100:43:15.900 --> 00:43:17.460adopt some of these children out offalster care, and it's like, well,62200:43:17.500 --> 00:43:21.820if you look at the statistics ofpeople that are doing that, it's62300:43:21.860 --> 00:43:25.340Christians. It's overwhelming majority of peoplewho are in the Fauster caure system,62400:43:25.380 --> 00:43:30.570who are not in the fausecure system, like part of it, but getting62500:43:30.570 --> 00:43:35.090children out of the FAULTER cres cractare Christians who were making the sacrifices and62600:43:35.130 --> 00:43:37.530doing the things that are necessary tofalster these children, people who are going62700:43:37.610 --> 00:43:42.519down through the border and and meetingthe needs there with these people who are62800:43:42.519 --> 00:43:45.800come across the board, overwhelmingly Christians, right, going meeting the needs,62900:43:45.880 --> 00:43:52.079bringing practical AIDS, Americans, pursother ministries that are there are, you63000:43:52.159 --> 00:43:54.949know, or there because of theChristian values that we hold right. And63100:43:55.429 --> 00:43:58.469you know, this is this,is it, like all these things,63200:43:58.550 --> 00:44:01.389just a red herring? Right,if you if you really value, you63300:44:01.590 --> 00:44:04.630know, I say the probortion people. You know, they say, if63400:44:04.630 --> 00:44:07.670you really value to one of theladies the other day, she said,63500:44:07.070 --> 00:44:09.980if you really value lives of children, want you get down to the border.63600:44:10.219 --> 00:44:13.539I'm like, well, why aren'tyou there? Exactly said, you63700:44:13.579 --> 00:44:15.179know what, if you really thinkwomen get you by sticket, you should63800:44:15.340 --> 00:44:17.699you just give us the word.Well, I said, well, if63900:44:17.739 --> 00:44:22.139you think that the oppression of womenis what's going on here from us,64000:44:22.260 --> 00:44:24.849we're pressing these women, harassing them, and you think that the issue of64100:44:24.929 --> 00:44:29.489women's oppression is bad, and Ido too, but if you really feel64200:44:29.489 --> 00:44:31.690that strongly about it, then goto Saudi Arabia, where women can't even64300:44:31.730 --> 00:44:35.570travel a car. Right, I'mbeing silly about it, but yeah,64400:44:35.690 --> 00:44:37.449you know, seriously, it's like, yeah, if you, if you64500:44:37.530 --> 00:44:39.440really think this is a big thing, you'll put your money where your mouth64600:44:39.480 --> 00:44:43.159is. You're telling me to putmy money where my mouth is. And64700:44:43.400 --> 00:44:47.760actually there are churches all over Charlottewho are Bible preaching churches. Who are64800:44:47.800 --> 00:44:52.119the ones that are going out andreaching out and who we get volunteers from?64900:44:52.400 --> 00:44:55.150Who are the people that are sendingaid to these these people in the65000:44:55.230 --> 00:44:59.869border who are helping out families withfoster care? I think we have within65100:44:59.949 --> 00:45:04.710our ministry three families that come tomind immediately. Their foster care right now,65200:45:04.949 --> 00:45:07.820like they're fostering kids. Yeah,so it's like, you know,65300:45:07.340 --> 00:45:12.659it's so the presupposition is wrong andin the fad they're accusing something without even65400:45:12.699 --> 00:45:16.539knowing. Yeah, there are,there, anyone is, but, but,65500:45:16.860 --> 00:45:22.570but the the other part of thatis because we are concerned with the65600:45:22.929 --> 00:45:29.889unborn and we're speaking out against abortion. Somehow that's not valid unless we are65700:45:30.570 --> 00:45:36.119speaking out against all injustice, yes, and and every every terrible thing that65800:45:36.679 --> 00:45:43.000afflicts humanity. And you know,they wouldn't make that same argument if if65900:45:43.039 --> 00:45:45.800I was giving to the cancer society, they wouldn't say, well, you66000:45:45.800 --> 00:45:47.320can't give to the cancer society.Why you why aren't you giving to the66100:45:47.400 --> 00:45:53.190heart society or whatever? That one'scalled, or the diabetes society or fighting66200:45:53.230 --> 00:45:57.869kidney disease. Yeah, no,that's Ludacris. That's like his is this66300:45:58.030 --> 00:46:00.269idea of this, if you're notdoing everything, that you don't have a66400:46:00.309 --> 00:46:04.340right to do anything. That's right, which is just sir, all it66500:46:04.539 --> 00:46:08.260is again. It's like, ifyou don't embrace my convictions, then you're66600:46:08.300 --> 00:46:12.420not actually carrying through your convictions.Like, what are you saying? They're66700:46:12.460 --> 00:46:15.699like, what are your convictions?And reality is that if you look at,66800:46:15.780 --> 00:46:16.380you know, a lot of thepro choice people, at least that66900:46:16.420 --> 00:46:20.570I interact with, and they sayyou should be doing this, I'm like,67000:46:21.329 --> 00:46:23.769are you doing that? Like leadthe way, you know, start67100:46:23.809 --> 00:46:29.090an organization that helps kids at theborder. Lead the way, and you67200:46:29.210 --> 00:46:30.929know, but I'm telling you,who's leading the way is actually Christian,67300:46:31.010 --> 00:46:36.119Christians, exactly Christians who believe thatlife begins at conception. That's right.67400:46:36.559 --> 00:46:38.880They're everywhelming. A majority of peoplewho are at the border are people that67500:46:38.960 --> 00:46:44.920would would identify with us. Yeah, religiously. Yeah, that's true.67600:46:45.159 --> 00:46:47.349That's true. And and in thatquestion and number five, why should more67700:46:47.389 --> 00:46:54.150unwanted children, you know, unwantedchildren. Aren't there more people lining up67800:46:54.590 --> 00:47:00.389for adoption, desiring deeply to adopta child. Yeah, then there are67900:47:00.469 --> 00:47:02.659babies to adopt. Yeah, andit's out of there. You know,68000:47:02.739 --> 00:47:08.739it's so prohibitively expensive for them todo that. So they're someone wants these68100:47:08.860 --> 00:47:13.380children. Well, absolutely, therearen't. I don't think there is any68200:47:13.500 --> 00:47:16.769such thing as unwanted children, right, I mean according to what we see68300:47:16.809 --> 00:47:22.369in the word of God. Sure, it's like, okay, every child68400:47:22.449 --> 00:47:24.889is formed in the womb by thehand of God. God had a plan68500:47:25.050 --> 00:47:30.599for these children and they're not unwantedby him. Right, and just because68600:47:30.599 --> 00:47:34.280we have, US as a society, have rejected, yeah, the truth68700:47:34.320 --> 00:47:37.480of God's word, that God thechildren are blessing from the Lord, doesn't68800:47:37.480 --> 00:47:40.039mean that God somehow abandons that truth. Right, as a church, we're68900:47:40.039 --> 00:47:45.309supposed to uphold that truth. Childrenare a blessing from there and and of69000:47:45.389 --> 00:47:47.630value. And you know, Matthew, ten, twenty, nine, thirty69100:47:47.670 --> 00:47:52.190one, about two sparrows sold fora penny, yet not one of them69200:47:52.230 --> 00:47:57.269falls to the ground outside your father'scare. Even the very heads of your69300:47:57.349 --> 00:48:00.019head are all numbered. Well,that's true of you, me and and69400:48:00.179 --> 00:48:04.500every unborn baby that every one ofus, every human life is of sacred69500:48:04.539 --> 00:48:08.940value before God, and I thinkwhat we've we've kind of pointed out in69600:48:09.420 --> 00:48:15.929all of these issues is is thatis what is the the underlying theme in69700:48:16.090 --> 00:48:22.849our in our prolife, counter toevery argument presented to us. As bottom69800:48:22.929 --> 00:48:29.519line, are human beings of valueand are we called the pond to protect69900:48:29.599 --> 00:48:34.000in us into human life and toprotect all human life? Is All human70000:48:34.039 --> 00:48:37.679life sacred? Yeah, before God, and we would answer yes, yeah,70100:48:38.519 --> 00:48:43.309unborn in the born. Yeah,absolutely. Yeah. Well, you70200:48:43.389 --> 00:48:45.949know, to wrap that up,Hoope, this was a blessing to those70300:48:45.989 --> 00:48:52.150who joined in and will maybe doanother podcast similar to this where we talk70400:48:52.190 --> 00:48:54.389about other pro choice arguments and tryto talk through those. Hoope, this70500:48:54.550 --> 00:48:58.940is a blessing and helps you tohelps to provoke thought. You know,70600:48:58.940 --> 00:49:04.179I think we need to think certainlyrationally and because of that we think biblically,70700:49:04.380 --> 00:49:08.139biblically because God's work is very rationaland it gives us some rational progressions70800:49:08.179 --> 00:49:13.210of thought, that sort of thing. I do want to encourage you to70900:49:13.530 --> 00:49:15.690go. We have a website thatwe've established nationally for people who want to71000:49:15.690 --> 00:49:20.289get involved with sidewalk counseling and getequipped and get trained and that sidewalks for71100:49:20.489 --> 00:49:23.960lifecom, at sidewalks at number fourand Lifecom and that has some training and71200:49:24.000 --> 00:49:29.440equipping stuff on there to train andequip you to be an effective sidewalk counselor.71300:49:30.039 --> 00:49:32.119And there's some videos on there.There's some articles. Were putting content71400:49:32.159 --> 00:49:37.000out there on a regular basis toencourage people in sidewalk counseling locally. Our71500:49:37.039 --> 00:49:39.389ministry website is Charlotte dot cities forLife Dot Org. You can connect with71600:49:39.510 --> 00:49:45.989me. My email addresses d parksat cities for lifecom and Vicky is v71700:49:46.269 --> 00:49:50.710Costi Org at cities for Lifecom,so you can connect with her. We'd71800:49:50.750 --> 00:49:52.500like to hear some ideas that youhave, maybe some subjects you'd like for71900:49:52.539 --> 00:49:55.900us to cover, some pro lifesubjects and light of the Gospel. We72000:49:57.019 --> 00:50:00.579did continue to put podcasts out there. We encourage you to share this podcast72100:50:00.659 --> 00:50:05.300with other people, leave a review, shoot me an email and let me72200:50:05.380 --> 00:50:07.570know how we can improve this thing. We want to we want to be72300:50:07.650 --> 00:50:10.329a blessing. This is not justfor us to promote ourselves promote our ministry.72400:50:10.730 --> 00:50:15.849This is to encourage the body ofChrist to to approach the issue of72500:50:15.889 --> 00:50:21.010abortion in light of the Gospel,because the Gospel is the solution to the72600:50:21.130 --> 00:50:24.360problem of abortion. Just like everyother eel of society, the Gospel is72700:50:24.400 --> 00:50:30.159a solution. So be blessed andin share this, this podcast, with72800:50:30.239 --> 00:50:52.980your friends and family. Use,Milan, use give me. Will cost72900:50:53.179 --> 00:51:00.340me my life, but these twoprecious inside