Text Conversation With An Abortion-minded Woman

0:00 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Send Me, Lord, I am you. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. This episode, me and Vicky are going to talk through a text conversation that she had with an abortion minded mom. We thought this conversation would be a blessing for you guys to listen in on. So stay tuned. I felt show Passi touch your use. All right. Well, welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. Guys, appreciate you joining us and today's podcast we're actually going to go through a conversation that Vicki had with a mom that had chosen life, or at least you've been ministering to, because we thought it would be helpful for you guys to kind of hear the flow of the conversation, at least some of the turning points in the conversation. Help you guys to maybe not know exactly what to say. Maybe you can learn from our mistakes. Right. Yeah, and and talk through that and just maybe talk through well, if I had it all to do over again, I would say something different. Maybe not. You do pretty good, Vicki. So we'll critique some of what you said here. Yeah, and so it was interesting because it was a taxt it was the she wanted to do it only by text. In fact, I offered to all and she didn't want me to call. She wanted to text s shit several young kids at home,

1:33 and so it was all recorded on the text. So I removed any identifying information and I thought it really it was an interesting discussion. And Yeah, and pretty typical honestly. Yeah, yeah, and just to set the stage for you guys, this was a mom who had come to the abortion center and she was there until the afternoon. You and I had left because we were there that morning and had no interaction whither. As far as I understand, she heard us. She definitely heard US talking and calling out, and in the afternoon she came out of the abortion center ended up talking to one of our afternoon team right and telling them that she chose life. Yeah, at least for today, for that day. Shaky. They when they talked to me, they said it was a shaky save, a shaky choice for life. Yeah, so choice for life nonetheless for that day. I got the contact information from her and fought. You were following up with her and talking through the situation because we want to make sure really that she doesn't come back back to the abortion center, as much as we're able to know.

2:37 You said it's a shaky decision for life. I want to solidify that decision for life and talk through the struggles and things that brought her there and let her know that she doesn't have to get back to that abortion right, right. And so well, kind of just share with us how this conversation started off and the flow of things and again, as you as are listening through, we're going to talk through some of the highlights of this conversation, some of the turning points and share with you just some inside they help encourage you guys in your conversations with abortion minded women. Well, it starts off honestly, she's mad at me because through honestly no fault of my own, her family had found out that she had been at the abortion center. She had been hiding it, which was important for me to know. Yeah, I'm glad I found that out. So because I knew there was then shame over over that choice. So the conversation started with her saying I'm embarrassed because now I'm going to be judged by all these people. And so the the first thing I did was say, Hey, I'm not here to judge you, I'm here to offer resources and on it. And that was also why she was referred to me, because our counselors who saw her in the afternoon fairly new counselors and they just didn't know all of our resources, and I do.

3:54 Yeah, so they had said give give it, you call, she'll tell you about the resources. Right. Yeah, so I texted her and she's said, you know, she's embarrassed and and so the initial part of that of the conversation, and we're not going to read through all the text because it would just be too long, but was me offering help and and working through, first of all, her concerns that she was going to be judged. Yeah, and that she was being judged, or condemned would probably be a better word, that she thought that we were condemning her. So work through that and she was willing then to to talk with me a little and and she said thank you when I said listen, I'm here always.

4:42 I if you want to talk, I will try my best to help. Yeah, and I will try my best to show you I'm not here to judge you. And so she said, well, thank you. Just whisper a prayer for me please. So that was kind of, for me, the first turning point, right. Yeah, whisper up. So, just without getting into a lot of the details of why she felt judge while she felt, you know, and how even that came into play, because there's a lot going on behind the scenes there, how she even was to think that her family found out and because of our connection there that her family found out. We will get into all of that. But understand, guys, and if you've been out to an abortion center, if you've ministered to abortion mounted women, you probably already understand that there's a lot of guilt associated with it. Even again, with a woman who left the abortion clinic who at least was a choice for life, so much so that she stopped and talk with our counselors on the way out and didn't get the abortion and didn't have the abortion right, she still yeah, there was some guilt associated with even being at the abortion clinic. So we have to understand that to that when we're when we're talking about because we can get into all the the biblical because we did a podcast about judgment, all the biblical justification for us to judge.

5:57 Yes, we are to make judgments, but in this situation what she's really saying is, I feel guilty and I'm concerned. You're going to make me feel more guilty and you're going to heap condemnation on me and all of that. So just to meet her where she's at. You're saying. I'm not connecting with you to judge you, I just want to help you. Right, and you're dealing with that guilt that she feels and rather than trying to magnify that, obviously the Holy Spirit needs to minister to that. The Holy Spirit is not against guilt. As a matter of fact, the Holy Spirit uses guilt to bring people to a place of ultimately to salvation. Right. You exactly don't come to the Lord for Salvation until you understand that you're guilty before God for sin. Right. But you're not going to say all that stuff just initially. Right, you work through this, and that's basically what you're doing here. You're working through that guilt and trying to show her why that guilt is even there. Right, and and told her don't beat yourself up. You overcame that temptation. You were tempted to Sind we all are tempted to sin, but you overcame at don't beat yourself up. Satan is the one that does that. Yeah, not, not God. So just trying to first of all comfort her. Yeah, it was the first part of the the session. Yeah, with with her. And then when I said that, it kind of opened trust, maybe, yeah, in her towards me and she shared the problem, really the crux of the problem.

7:26 She said, I know, but I'm already having a hard time with the many children that I have. And just to preserve privacy, I won't name the number, but it was a lot. Just she has a lot of children. So here's the problem identified now and which is really the first step towards any ability to help someone. You understand what the problem was. So the problems. She's overwhelmed, she's got a lot of kids. She already was struggling to provide for the children that she had. So so the first thing in the discussion. Then it went into something I don't often do, but knowing the number of children, knowing that she was ready to kill that child and knowing that she's feeling totally overwhelmed, I did say they're there are resources, but if you choose to parent this child, we will help you. Yeah, and we have so many resources that can help you.

8:18 But if you choose that parenting is not possible for you, we will walk you through adoption. Yeah, placing your child for adoption. And she didn't reject that idea. So I knew that that was kind of in the back of in the back of her mind. Yeah, at least a consideration for her. Right, right, and I reminded her that she had time. Yeah, you have you have time. She was not. She was early on in the pregnancy. You have time before you have to make this decision. So the the next step for me. I know she's shaky. I know I was probably not going to go for adoption, and most women don't. Yeah, that we interact with, which we've talked about before on past podcast. So I knew that really for her, abortion is still on the table. And as soon as possible, try to introduce the idea of God.

9:11 Yeah, I've mentioned resources. She didn't start jumping up and down with joy. Say No, then my mind is made up. Right. So then you segue into the discussion of God and one of the we knew, by the way, just as to shed some light on what I was working with. I knew from the afternoon team that she claimed to be a Christian. Yeah, that's important. Yeah, she claimed to believe in God. She even claimed that Jesus was her Lord. I knew that. So I knew that that was where I needed to speak with her. Yeah, and in that whole idea of Lordship. So one of the I right away.

9:54 Then this gives me the ability to start sharing scripture. She's the one that first brought up prayer and and so I said, well, if, if you know God and if you claim Jesus is Lord, you know Jesus himself says, if you love me, you will do what I say. I think you love him, and his word is clear. He says the shedding of innocent blood is one of the seven greatest abominations before God. And that scripture. Well, that's that was that's a description of a person, proverbs. But that's bringing her to the truth of your claiming Jesus is Lord, and yet you're here to shed this innocent child's blood and and we're told that that is not okay. Yeah, if yes is your Lord. And so some folks that that might be listening. I think, wow, you just went straightforward. You didn't. You didn't dance around the issue. You went straight for yeah, if you're claiming to be a Christian, right, you can't kill your innocent child, and I guess every time you do that you do risk them hanging up on you. Absolutely do you risk you know, I no response there on that text thread. Yeah, that's rights, them hanging up on you if you're on the phone. You risk them driving off if they in their vehicle. Right, and you know, with any of these situations you have to be led by the Holy Spirit. Probably wouldn't go right there if I was talking to a woman car side in front of the abortion center, but if I'm talking to them on the phone they've left the abortion center, at least have some information there that they claim to be a

11:26 Christian, also that they felt the conviction enough to leave the abortion said I have the abortion that they so I know what I'm dealing with here. I'm dealing with someone who's pretty inclined to listen, at least to hear me out. And so why beat around the Bush? Why not down straight for the exactly? We don't know how much time we have. I knew that already. She's she's with a lot of kids, that it's not naptime, the kids are awake and I knew I had limited time and, as we always do really when we're dealing with an abortion minded woman. So and if she's claimed the Lord, then and and she told our counselor she claimed Jesus as Lord and they believed her. They said they felt that she had an understanding, a true understanding, of Jesus as Lord. Yeah, so, yeah, I was probably more straightforward than I would have been with someone who had not claimed that they had a faith. Yes, saving faith. But I went back to where she said she's already having a hard time and what that tells me is not only is she struggling with the very real struggle of handling a lot of children, but it's not what she wanted in life. Yes, I would maybe what she expected, yeah, of someone who's following God and now he's given her another child which she sees is just hea being struggle upon struggle. And I wanted to address that and said that the Bible says nothing is impossible with God, but that doesn't mean we won't have troubles.

12:56 Jesus himself says, in this world you will have troubles, but take heart, I have overcome the world and as and I'm talking about that verse and what it means to have struggles and troubles and that that doesn't mean that you're not walking with God at all. God himself tells us that we will have yeah, absolutely. And so what you're bringing into the equation, which is often times where we want to get to in the conversation, again, whether we're talking to a woman car side at the abortion center or on the sidewalk in front of the abortion center or on the phone or through text or whatever means, yeah, is we want to bring God into the equation. Yes, that's right. I mean he's already in the equation. Of course, he's the Lord of Heaven and earth, but they're in their mind and there.

13:43 Yeah, they're not acknowledging that and because of the fear, because of the selfishness and because of whatever else is going on, they've sort of made God a side issue. Yeah, and so we need to bring him to the forefront of their minds and remind them that, yes, they're accountable to him, but also he's faithful. Yeah, he's faithful in these situations, and you know this. Goes right along the lines of helping them trust in the Lord, to bring God into the equation and his character, that he's faithful. Yeah, that he though you'll have tribulation, he's with you in the midst of that tribulation's right, and and to correct misperceptions, because it is some as perception that if you trust God, your life is going to be easy. He never promises right, God never says that, and I do think that that is one of the dangers of modern Christianity. Absolutely, that that is promised and if there's struggles or troubles we try to get rid of them, as though that's not normal. But that's just so. Yeah, counter to what the Bible tells. Absolutely, you know, you've got, you know, the modern like Prosperity Gospel. Right, that has to do with only, you know, health and wealth and has very little to do with laying down your life, taking up your cross and following Jesus right the whole. You know, God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. Gospel. Yeah, and man, tell tell Stephen that who was stoned in the first century for his is faith in Jesus. It's not that God doesn't have wonderful plan for your life. He certainly does his plans just as not always necessarily your plan, and sometimes I think that you would

15:16 think that maybe that's a terrible message. I've had many people tell me what that's depressing. Well, maybe, except no one who has lived any length of time has not experienced struggle and trouble. They we all do, and I think it's freeing for us to know. Wait, this doesn't mean necessarily that it's because I'm walking away from God or disobedient to God. It's just what life is. There will be struggle and trouble, but there is an accompanying promise, yeah, by God, which you touched on when you said Jesus is with us. He is it. We're not alone through those struggles and ultimately, and I'm I talked with her about this, ultimately Jesus words are I have overcome the world. Take Heart, I have overcome the world.

16:07 In other words, he wins. Yeah, he has the victory. And so who do we want to hitch our wagon to? Yeah, he who has overcome the world and has the victory, or the author of death, the enemy of our soul who is whispering her in her ear all this shame and condemnation and just go do it and get rid of your troubles and kill your baby. And so I was trying to paint the picture of that. She needs to turn to God, who has overcome the world, and and talked with her about the promises that God does make. Abundant joy, abundant life, peace, eternal life. Yeah, so those are those are worth pursuing. And at that point there was an interesting again, I thought it was a turning point. She made a very insightful comment about herself and I thought it should great self perception and self awareness, and also she's opening up to me, which is always a good sign. Anybody who will listen to that. When you just kind of lay it out real playing and say this is an abomination before God, right, and will continue on in the conversation, least you know you've got their attention and you hadn't lost them there, right, you know, right and that. Of course, that doesn't work with everyone and you do rely on the Holy Spirit, but I had a counseling session right after this, just the next day, where the woman

17:40 said that the reason that she wanted to listen to me was because you don't sugarcoat it. That's what she said. You don't sugarcoat it. So I think sometimes we are mistaken that. Well, people want to hear is everything phrased in gentle you know. I mean we want to be gentle, but we don't want to make it sound better than it really is, because they know it's not better than it really is, of course. So, anyway, she said, I've realized I don't really love myself. I don't respect myself either, so it is hard to trust God when I don't know if I can trust myself. Yeah, she can't trust God because she can't trust herself, whereas I flip that around right away, right, of course, you know, and told her you're right, you can't trust yourself. None of us really can trust ourselves, but we can trust God. He is trustworthy. Yeah, we're not. Yeah, you know a lot of that.

18:41 was talking someone about this the other day, actually, one of our new volunteers, and about one of the issues that many of the not just the women that we encounter and men that we encounter the abortion center, but just in general in society, is that society has an identity crisis. You've got an identity crisis. Yeah, and that identity crisis is rooted in we don't know who god is. We don't know who we are because we don't know who god is, and a world that's rejected God is in a isis of crisis right there's no solid foundation. To the point, you know, even the fabric that God has established in society of the family, has fallen apart. A lot of people have an identity crisis. They don't know they're worth and their value because their father wasn't in the picture. And a lot of children, the way God has designed it, find, I want to say, their value, but at least they're worth in their purpose from their fathers. And their father's not there, then they don't know they're they're worth in their value and in the same token, if they rejected God, as of course the heavenly father, have a hard time seeing their worth and their value there. So it's just this whole big picture of things fallen apart and the way they got is on it. That is exactly what I found as as the discussion went on. But asking questions, we've said that many times, is really a good counseling technique and I did ask a lot of questions and one of them was why do you not love yourself? And she said she would not allow the things she allowed, she wouldn't allow people to hurt

20:14 her and she wouldn't beat herself up over things that she could not change. But she was not really recognizing that maybe she didn't love herself because she was doing things that she didn't want to be doing. Yeah, that I mean, she wanted to be doing them, but they were in rebellion. Right. Yeah, that's that. That fight in the heart, right, the battle between the flesh and the in the spirit. Right, and she's dealing with and given, more over, into the flesh. It Causes Destruction, it calls US depression, it causes all these things that come in the hearts, in the minds of people that give themselves to sin. Right. And when I asked her, that's that. When when she least loved herself, it was in the times when she disobeyed God. Yes, she walked away from God. She you know, it's interesting that here we are having a discussion where she's still abortion mind it. There's no doubt she's just still thinking about abortion, and she's saying, I don't love myself. Well, no, kidding, you're about to go do one of the worst things you could do before God, and as a woman, and certainly to that that innocent baby. It's hard to love yourself when you're engaged in just such direct rebellion against right from wrong. Yeah, violating your conscience exactly. So I said that. I said when when you obey God, how do you feel?

21:42 And she felt better about herself. Yeah, and and I asked her those times when you have obeyed God are The Times? It was that when your faith was strong or weak, and they were times when her faith was stronger. Yeah, and and then I said I believe that we love ourselves most when we are in the will of God. Odd and again. I felt that that was a turning point. Yeah, because she, I don't think, had considered that at all. I think she was saying she was kind of blaming the world around her. Think she had no control over how people treat her, how she responds to how they treat her and how angry she is about things. She can't change. None of those things she could really have any effect on, but she could affect whether she obeyed God or not.

22:37 Yeah, are either. Scripture here that came to mine, John, Chapter Four. This is Jesus, he just got done minister into the woman at the will and powerful. You know, you guys know this story. I'm sure she goes off to her village to testify about who Jesus was. Well, Jesus Disciples show up and and it says they urged him to eat. This is in chapter four, verse thirty. One. His disciples urged him to eat, saying REBBA, eat, and he said to them, I have food to eat, of which you do not know. And then one of it's a I give him food, and he goes on to say my food is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. So his nutrients came from obeying God. Right, and maybe it's maybe it's not the greatest comparison here, but I think it is if you think about it in your human relationships. As a child, did you not feel like really good when you when you cleaned your room without asking?

23:37 Yeah, without your parents asking. You know what I'm saying. You felt good about yourself, like I did the right thing finally, and I feel good about myself. That loves you exactly, and you show your love by your obedience to them, and it does feel good feels good. Yeah, in the same way. You know, as a Christian, I'm sure some of you guys you know brand new as Christians. You haven't shared your faith a lot, and then you finally step out and you give a track to somebody at the grocery store or you share the Gospel with somebody you've been praying for a long time and you know, it's like in your mind before you did it's like, I can't do that, it would feel terrible if I did it. I just feel I feel, I don't know, embarrassed or whatever these bad feelings come but when you actually do it, then you start to feel huh, you almost feel like the satisfaction of your heavenly father.

24:23 That's kind of what Jesus is talking about. That's kind of what this young lady's dealing with. She's doing things that disobey God right, but she feels good when she finally does obey the Lord. It's like that satisfaction that you've done what is right in the side of your head, my father, and I'm glad you said that because actually I think that was an important part of the conversation that I did skip over about where I was talking about you did obey God today. You obeyed God when you walked out of that abortion center. You'd nothing was solved. Yet. Yeah, nothing had changed in your situation. Nothing. It still hasn't changed. We're telling you it will, but it still ha has not. And yet you chose to obey God when you walked out. How did that make you feel? And she exactly what you said, Daniel. It made her feel good. Yeah, and so that's our love, I think, for ourself comes when we most mirror God.

25:14 Yeah, when we most reflect our heavenly father, because that's what we're made for. Yeah, our purpose is to glorify God. So when we are glorifying God in our actions is when we most love ourselves, because we know we are doing what we were made to do. And every act of disobedience, I think, is an act that takes us further from true and and what is honest and healthy self love. Yeah, absolutely. So she said that she's struggling, she's trying, she's trying, and and then I address that, because we hear that all the time too. I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying so hard, but I keep failing, and I think sometimes we do try too hard on our own power. Yeah, and not submitting enough to the power and the strength of God. And when do we feel that? When we obey him. Yeah, when we follow him, when we pray and ask him to help us. He does. He always answers that prayer. Yeah, he gives us just enough strength, yes, absolutely, to make make it through whatever we need to do. And, and I guess I actually said that, if the purpose in your life is to glorify God, it takes the focus off of your failures and yourself and puts the focus on God, which is where it needs to be.

26:41 Yeah, and at that point she said I agree. Yeah, and again a validation and I think, a turning point for her that Oh, maybe my focus has been too much on my struggle, too much on me, too much on what I can control, and really it needs to be on God. Yeah. So from from that point I went into the Gospel, because I think now she's been engaging with me for quite some time at this point about God, but there hasn't been a real sharing of the Gospel. I knew that our afternoon team had to some degree shared the Gospel, so I didn't feel the pressure. You know fully it's a pressure I put on myself, but that I feel God calls us to share the full Gospel.

27:29 I knew that she at least heard some of it. She claimed to know it, but I did ask her at that point are you going to heaven or hell? What you think? And she she answered that she was going to heaven and I asked why, and she said because because she had faith. Yeah, and and she was basically good. Yeah, which we hear a lot. Right, I'm a good person. Yeah. So I said, well, if would there be enough bad things you could do to send you to hell? And she said no, I could do a million times too, I think she said, bad things, as long as I repent, yeah, he will hear me, and so that's always a red flag to me. That's red flag. And why is that a big concern in this conversation? It's because there's that in the back of the mind. Justification for an abortion. Absolutely, and it's well, I can do a million times two things and God will forgive me as long as I repent first.

28:27 Almost there's a misunderstanding what repent even means exact almost like repent just means saying you're sorry, and that's not at all what repentance, to do whatever you want to do, as long as you're sure to say I'm sorry when you're done. Yeah, exactly. And Yeah, of course that's a dressed in the scripture several times. Many shall we sin? That grace might have bound, may it never be right. So using the grace of God as a license for sin, right is, is not okay in the sight of God. It's a trap, right, the trap of the enemy. And that's what she was tempted to do. And in one sense, in conversations like this, and this is where you guys need to be cued in, is that sometimes, and you're when you're in a conversation like this with an abortion minded mom, whether it again, it be by text or over the phone or right there at the abortion clinic, they're trying to grab all into justifications for abortion. You got to be so careful. Yeah, you got it.

29:22 Is One of those big, big areas. Yeah, area of forgiveness. You have to be so careful that. That's saying, which we did do a podcast about, for damps of it as well, how to introduce forgiveness right, because it's a big thing. If you're if you're one of those people that will just say yeah, God will forgive you. You need to be careful for that, because that's not actually true. God, here's the thing. God is not beholden to anyone. God does not have to forgive anyone for anything, and just to broadcast this idea that God will forgive you is incorrect. It's not biblical and it gives a justification for a sin and especially when we're dealing with the murder of a child, we need to be careful. So just here hear what I'm saying and not what I'm not saying. I am saying God is not required to forgive that person, but God can and God will if they truly repent. So that needs to be that's the caveat here. So just to broadcast this idea that, yes, you have this abortion, yes, God will forgive you, because you will have those conversations a lot of times. We have one not too long ago with a young lady yelling back at this won't God forgive me, and it's like well, you want to respond with yes, he will, but I sometimes will respond with no, he won't forgive you unless you get yeah, not with that attitude, unless you repent, and you're not in a position to repent, you're hardening your heart, you're about to go walk in and

30:52 do that. And that was exactly what was going on. I feel very confident that that's much she is US fishing for a way out. And so I said, I agree with you. With a CAFFIAT. I think I use that word with with with with a caveat. I said, what do you think of Hebrews ten twenty six? And I said, let me find it and paste it here for you, for if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, they're no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. So that's Romans ten, twenty six and twenty seven.

31:37 And and then I I kept talking. She was was not texting during that point. I'm assuming she's letting that verse sink in and I often will pause after reading that verse. I use this verse a lot. Yeah, and and I the other verse I use a lot is, if you love me, you will obey me. And why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say? Yeah, they all are kind of saying the same thing. But so let that sink in. And then I said if we know what is right and still continue to do wrong, this versus a dire warnt warning. True repentance means we turn from wrong. For example, I think I may have given this example before on our podcast, but it's such a good example, honestly because I've had so many turning points, I think, in conversations when I share this. Right, yeah, if you were married and your husband and said, I think our new neighbor is hot, I'm going to go have sex with her, but I will be right back because I know you will forgive me. Would that be all right with you? And she said of course not, of course not. Yeah, and I said, I know right, but that's what we do to God.

32:45 We say I know it is wrong, but I know you will forgive me, so I will do it anyway. Yeah, and she sent back a frownie face. Yeah, so you've taken a biblical truth and you've made it personal for her. That's just like what Nathan the Prophet did with David and his sin with best she but he gives this example of this man taking this this other man's lamb for himself the only lamb this poor man, and David's, of course, outrage, like this guy needs to be brought to justice. Well, you're that man that came so bringing. Basically, you're putting God in the position of he just is going to forgive you. What if you're in that position when your husband does this, you're just going to forgive him? Right, just, okay, he tells you ahead of time, I'm going to go ahead of this abortion and know her time. Yeah, because I know you are forgiving God and and of course, that that doesn't fly right. And and then I then I said that this verse, if you can be a great encouragement, though, if you couple it with the truth of Romans ten nine, I think it's Romans ten. Yeah, Romans ten nine to ten, which one of my favorite verses, and that's the the crux of my my gospel, sharing his Romans ten nine. If we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in our heart that God raised him from the dead, then we will be saved. So I recited that. I texted that to her and and she said, I'm familiar with that verse, which makes it even better. Great, yeah, and

34:15 and I said so the in my estimation, the most important phrase in that verse is Jesus is Lord. And what does that mean? And if if he is Lord, then whatever is Lord of your life is what controls you. That's what you'll do, that's what you'll obey, you'll follow whoever is lord of your life. And she said yes, and then I said so a lot of people claim Jesus is Lord, but then they disobey him. They live lives of sexual sin, which I know she's been in. I'd said that purposefully because I wanted to point that out, lying, cussing, taking his name in vain, etc. And they say they love him.

34:58 Do they really love him if he's Lord and they're not living like he is Lord? Is He? And she agreed. Now, yeah, and then after that discussion I said, let me go all the way back to the beginning. At the very beginning I had asked her which she accept a mentor which would help her through our organization of Sister Organization and Sister Ministry Love Life Charlotte, and which she agree to have an ultrasound to see her baby, because I knew she didn't want to see her baby right yeah, because she's still not doesn't know what she's going to do with this baby. So, after this whole discussion, and and and also the reminder our faith is not tested by when times are good or choices are easy. Our faith, our proof that Jesus is Lord of our lives, is really in the hard times.

35:52 Yeah, the the hard choices, the choices that seem impossible. When we follow him, then that's how we grow in spiritual strength, and when we lose ourself in him, that's when we truly find ourself and ultimately find true self love. Yeah, and so and self worth. Then I said, so, will you go for an ultrasound to see your baby Friday? And she said yes, yeah, so there was this this whole evolution from, you know, being a very shaky saved saying yes, and she did. She did sign up for the mentor so she was brought ultimately to the only really hope that there was, no matter what situation she faces, which is God. Yeah, yeah, and trusting and obeying, if she's claiming him as Lord. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and again, bringing the Lord into the equation, bringing his truth to bear in her heart and her mind. Don't, don't, ever, let guys who are listening anyone fool you into believing that God needs to be a side issue in these conversations with women who are abortion minded. That's garbage. It's got to be centric.

37:09 He's got to be central to the conversation. I'm telling you, he's central to the conversation these women are having in their mind and in their hearts. I can tell you that even women who might even claim to be atheists, they are thinking because God has put his word or his law in their hearts. They are thinking about the Lord. Yeah, maybe, maybe, not in the same terms that you and I are, of course, but God is in the equation. So bringing him to the forefront of their minds, bringing his word. And again, the Holy Spirit has to lead you. And there can be sometimes where you deal with these situations with kitty gloves because again, you're dealing with life and death, but there are situations which you just need to be forthright and just lay it out. Let the Lord do his work. Bring his word. His word doesn't return void. His word is what the Holy Spirit uses primarily to change that heart. Yeah, and just in this flow of conversation that we get shared with you, this mom's heart was solidified for life and she's getting connected with Bible Preaching, Church and a mentor that's going to walk alongside her and all that. So we did want to share this with you, guys, to encourage you, to just kind of give you an idea of the flow of one of the conversations, and this, again, is one of among many of conversations. Had the situation been different, the conversation may have went different in some aspects. Were for those part bringing God's truth to bear. is going to be in those conversations, talking about Jesus being Lord, going right for the issues that are

38:45 going on in their lives and then their hearts, which is ultimately this connection from the Lord. Yeah, is is a key and they know they know it. That's the thing is they know it. And when we try to walk to gingerly around the topics of sin, repentance and what it truly means to to follow God and if Jesus is Lord, when we tiptoe around that, sometimes they I think they that's what they really want. Yeah, because they know truth. We all know truth deep down inside because, like you said, God writes it on our hearts. We know it and we know when we've transgressed his laws. Yeah, and we want to find our way back and they, most of the women we interact with, have plenty of people that are helping them justify, oh, yeah, wrong, that they're about to do and that's not what they need and it's really not even what they really want to hear, right. I think what they really want to hear is God's voice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, guys, we appreciate you guys joining in on this podcast and we would appreciate if you guys would share this podcast and the other podcast that we put out and also go to our sidewalks for life website, sidewalks the number four lifecom. We've gotten some good feedback from folks that are accessing that website and just blessed by the training stuff that's there and the articles that are written there. We just hope that you guys will share that reach out with us. Let us know maybe there's some subjects that we haven't covered in this podcast that you'd be interested

40:15 in US covering, and we'd love to pursue those subjects and maybe dig into the word of God and see what it says about those particular subjects that reach out to me. Deep Parks, at cities for lifecom, Her v CASSI, Oregan cities for lifecom. We'd love to hear from you, guys. Until next time, God bless give me our love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious. And some met you