Sidewalk Outreach Role-Play

0:01 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, and me, Lord, I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. As we've done some training, we thought it would be a good idea to give you guys an idea of what we say to an Abortion Min did mom and dad. We're going to do a little role playing in this episode, so stay with us. I felt show passish, touch your heart. Use Me. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. Appreciate you guys listening and we hope the past couple of episodes that we've done with some training has been a blessing to you. Hope it's equipped you guys to be effective out there on the sidewalk. Maybe some of you that are not going out to the sidewalk, maybe it's encourage you to be involved. times we don't get involved because we're intimidated, and the way to get unintimidated a lot of times just training right if you're going to go into battle. I can understand being intimidated going into battle, and especially if you don't have the proper training and all of that right. The more training you get, the more confident you become, and so we hope that this training has been a blessing. I think we're gonna we're going to do something, maybe a little, a little out of the norm. Actually not, maybe definitely a little out of the noise. Haven't done this shot. We have not. Yeah, we've been encouraged to do it. We've, I think, maybe once or twice in our inperson trainings. We've done some role playing stuff and I think it isn't

1:34 quipping equipping, though. We've had people asked, could you please record a conversation as you're counseling a mom car side? Could you please record that conversation so we can just kind of listen in on what do you see? What you say? Well, I can't do that. It's don't feel like. I don't feel like it would be the right thing to do to secretly record a conversation between a woman and then if I were to record it secretly, I'd still want her permission to use it and if I did that it would kind of be like a breach of trust. I just I just don't feel good about doing that. I don't know how you feel about that, but yeah, not with the conversation. I have shared bits and pieces of text right conversations that I've had and I purposely remove all of the identifying yes, it's of information. Yeah, because it is. Well, what we're saying is it's valuable. We get that that would be very valuable, but we don't quite know how to do it ethically. Yeah, right, yeah, and I think maybe this is probably the best we can do. Yeah, just do a little bit of role playing. Yeah, so that's what we're going to do. Vicki is going to be the abortion minded woman. She's talked to maybe thousands of abortion minded women over the years, so she's got a lot of basis for the conversation, some of the things that they might say. Yeah, and I've got a little bit of experience in talking to abortion mounded women. So I'm going to do the best I can to navigate through the conversation, try, try to really center the conversation around the three talking points. I am not great at acting and pretending the scenario was something

3:07 that's not so please bear with me if I sound a little weird, a little like, I don't know, probably just weird. I'm sorry about that, but I'm doing the best I can and role playing scenario. It kind of I don't know, maybe I'm more selfconscious than I need to be about it, but just do the best we can. Just close your eyes and pretend you're out there. Just picture those people screaming at you, taunting you, yeah, giving you the finger and yeah, sure. Well, I do want to set the scenario for you guys, and it's it's the scenario that we have here in Charlotte where we've got our team on the public sidewalk at the abortion center. Some of you guys who are listening, you've been to the abortion center home with trobe drive and so you've seen the scenario.

3:50 Some of you guys who in other parts of the country, are the parts of the world, haven't, so you don't know what I'm talking about. But if you can kind of imagine, there's an abortion center, it's a freestanding building, there's a parking lot out in front of the abortion center, there's a public sidewalks, which is where we stand, and then there's a road that people drive down to get into the abortion center. Most of the people that stop in a one conversation are in the vehicle, in a vehicle, so they're not there's not foot traffic, but I think a lot of the same conversational stuff will apply to those situations as well. But so that's kind of the stage. So we have our our team on the public sidewalk there, we'll have somebody positioned at the driveway, somebody positioned in front of the abortion center calling out, somebody position of the other driveway and then, if we have enough people, people positioned around the corner up the road.

4:40 It's where a lot of people actually stop and engaged there. And then we'll have the mobile ultrasound unit, like we've mentioned before, we have a mobile ultrasound units, an RV. It's like a mobile pregnancy center with a nurse on board, fore ultrasound, free pregnancy test available. So that's kind of the the scenario there and it's normally within the line of sight. So if you if you hear me suggesting, Hey, once you go over there, that's where over there will be being the in the RV. You could apply that same thing to a pregnancy center that's down the road. Hey, won't you go ten minutes down the road to the pregnancy center? And so so that's kind of set in the stage for what we're going to do in this role play. We might do a couple role playing scenarios. Definitely want to do one with me as the counselor you as the abortion minded mom, and then one it with me as the abortion minded dad and then you as a counselor so. So we'll do the one first that you're the abortion aount of mom and I'm the counselor and kind of the the weird thing about this it's actually this is not necessarily terribly typical. You do counsel some women, but oftentimes we have the men counsel the man and the women counsel the women.

5:48 Yeah, so it's a little bit out of there are normal comfort zone. But no, it's well, you've done more with I have currently man to engage with the women's like if you've got the word of God in you and you've got a relationship with Jesus. Yeah, you can. You can counsel with them, although I agree in some sense, but I don't want people to be discouraged at all. You can reach women going into the abortion center as a man and vice versa. But there may be definitely not maybe definitely are things that you will and you won't say, given the kind of the the gender differences. There exactly. So all right. So we're best. Here we are, which the heads like some music in the background, you know, like the kind of that merry melodies music background, coming to the scen area. So here we are at the latrobe abortion center. Vicky, should that be your name? Nokie, I have a special name. Okay, what is it? Faith? Faith, okay, so I know that.

6:46 Yet that should be a part of our roleplane it will be, don't worry. So there I am on the sidewalk, I have a piece of literature in my hand and I'm waving it in the air and moving around frantically. No, I'm not. Actually, I'm in a very calm demeanor, have a smile on my face, have a literature in my hand and I have my hand up kind of in a waving stop motion. I hate stop. And then faith, who I don't know her name yet, comes to a complete stop. Yeah, first thing I'm going to say is here has some information to give to you. Would you please take this information? Well, what is this? So this is information about your baby. It's information about the help that we have available for you. Do you know your baby is alive? I don't eat this, I don't need this. site.

7:30 I have to do this. I have to do this so real quick, before you go, would you at least just take the information? That way you'll have it just in case you need it. Okay, and then I do want to ask you, like what's brought you here? What makes you feel like abortion is something that you have to do? Where do I begin? Well, for one thing, my boyfriend has said if, if I don't have an abortion, that he is kicking me out and I can't afford, yes, live in my own place. So that's you know. Yeah, I mean right away. That's it. That that's the main it's the main deal. And and how can I have a baby when you know he doesn't? He didn't want the base? That's not fair. Yeah, right, it's I'm fair to the baby at all. Yeah. Yeah, do you have family in the area? You from this area? No, I mean I live, I live with my boyfriend and I don't have anyone.

8:26 I'm I'm all alone. Yeah, except for him, and he kicks me out. I'm really all alive. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I just want you to know that we have all kinds of hell. We have resources available. Let's want to first introduce myself at really gotten to that yet. But my name is Daniel and I work with the ministry called Love Life. What's your name? My Name's faith. Faith. Wow, that's that's an amazing name. Yeah, do you faith? Do you believe in God? You think there's a God, that that made you? Oh, well, you yeah, yeah, I think, I think there's probably a God. Yeah, I'm not really religious though. Okay, so you don't get a church anywhere in the area? No, no, no, I did when I was a little girl. Okay, a little kid, but no, not, not now. Yeah, okay. Well, you know, faith, Bible calls us to put our faith in the Lord, and I know you mentioned that you believe in God, and I believe most people do believe in God. And the basis of your name, faith implies trust.

9:30 I want you to know there is a God that you can trust. I understand your situation is difficult. Your boyfriend is going to kick you out, at least threatening to kick you out. Yeah, where's God in that? I mean, if if you said I can trust God, well, you know, why do you make me pregnant? Then? Yeah, well, that's the decision that you made. God, in the midst of that, can bring good out of that bad situation. You've got to be willing to put your trust in him. Like I mentioned, I work with a ministry called Love Life and we have resources, we have connections. So if that is the case, that your boyfriend does kick you out and it could just be a threat, understand he could just be threatened to do that. You don't know him. Yeah, in fact, I'm a little worried about what he would do. Yeah, if, sure, if I, if I don't go in there and have that abortion. I mean he gave me the money for it. Sure. Yeah, he's teeth thinks that's what I'm doing right now. Yeah, yeah, probably be. He'd probably be really mad at you if he saw you talking to me. Yeah, he may be, and certainly don't want to put you in dangers. Want to, want to. I wanted to get the literature in your hands. Friend of mine, Vicki, her numbers on the back of there. You can certainly call her talk with her, text her. She loved to talk with you and might be the best scenario as far as that's concerned. But as long as we're talking, when I ask you, obviously the boyfriend he wants you to have the abortion. But how do you feel I mean, you stopped for me. We've been talking for a little bit. Is that something you really want to do? Have you? Have you kind of come to grips with the fact that what you're going to be doing is taking the life of your baby and you're comfortable with that? Well, no, it's not like what I want to do. Yeah, it's that, you know, this

11:03 is just there's no other choice. Okay, so you feel like this is just the only choice for you? Yeah, I mean, you know, you got to have a place to live. Sure, and I haven't been feeling so good since I got pregnant. I'm really worried about how I'm going to continue my job. Yeah, absolutely, mean, I'm puking day and night right right now to yeah, situation, for sure. Well, you just said that you really don't feel like abortion is something that you want to do, but you feel like it's something that yeah, you know, if if I, if I had a you know, it wasn't married in a stable relationship, or even if I just thought that he was going to you know, I can't bring this, this baby into a world where with no home and no father and that that's what's going to happen you know, home, no father and probably no job for me, because I feel I feel like crap right now. Yeah, and certainly can understand that. Never been in your situation exactly, but I've certainly debt with situations like yours, and I'm not pretending they're easy solutions to it. But I am saying is that once you take the life of your baby, that's something you cannot undo.

12:11 And with all these unknowns in your situation, the unknowns about where you're going to stay and your relationship with your boyfriend, unknown's about your job, there's one thing that that is known, that if you go through with an abortion, that baby is going to going to be killed. What's not a baby? I'm only I'm only like, I don't know, maybe for maybe five weeks. Yeah. Well, I mean, you just did say earlier that you didn't want to bring this baby into the world. Well, that's that was just so you would know what I was talking about. It's just a compass house, okay. Yeah, well, I want to show you in the brochure right here actually, it talks a little bit about how your baby's formed in the womb and your baby right here, as it says in the brochure at just eighteen to twenty one days after conception, actually as early as sixteen seventeen days after conception. Scientifically they've proven your baby's heart begins to beat that early. You believe that me now? Now, yeah, try.

13:09 Even if you're four weeks, five weeks long, your baby's hearts already been beaten for a couple weeks now. This is the Bible certainly speaks of the humanity to your child, that God loves your child, but scientifically, the science has proven your baby's alive, like that child is a living human being, your honor, your daughter. Well, well, yeah, but, but, well, okay, so maybe that's true, but that still doesn't change the fact that I'm gonna lose, you know, my home, yeah, and maybe my job. Yeah, if what I'm saying is true, though, I think about it, if your baby is really a living human being, that's really your son or your daughter, and I get your struggles are difficult, and I'm not saying that they're not, and I'm certainly not pretending it's going to be easy. But if what I'm saying is true, isn't that baby worth being protected? Well, yeah, and a perfect world, but you know, this isn't perfect. This is yeah, and I don't. I don't imagine when you were born, that you were born in a perfect scenario, right. I don't imagine that your mom had it all together and I never knew, I never knew my dad. Yes, there's there's no dad and I and you know, life was hard. Yeah, Hasolutely Dad. I don't want to. What about my baby? I don't.

14:28 I don't want my baby to have to suffer and struggle like that. Sure, yeah, I get it, but the truth is, if you have an abortion, your baby is going to suffer in struggle by the instruments of of death at that abortionist is going to use. So you have to think about that. I understand you want to save your baby, you want to save yourself from from struggle, but believing that somehow abortion is going to going to make that not happen, there's not going to be struggle. Listen, your circumstance, the you're in right now. Think about it. You've got a boyfriend that's pressuring you to have an abortion. Yeah, you think that after you have the abortion, somehow that the relationship is going to be magically made better. And he's already using manipulation. He's already using pressure, I would guess. I'm not going to imply anything, but I would guess that he's used these tactics in the past for other things. Yeah, he's an exactually kind of a jerk. Yeah, he is kind of a jerk, but on that point I would probably agree. Well, I mean, I don't yeah, yeah, I mean, if, but but I'm trapped, right, he's. Yes, he's paining them. That's really what I'm saying is you're not trapped. That the people that are standing right here on this sidewalk, folks that are standing right here, that woman over there, the guy over there. Yeah, these people are here to help. You can see that. Can they get me a place to stay? Absolutely, yeah, really, yeah. As a matter of fact, listen, before we you've got an appointment. I understand that you want to go into the abortion center and keep your appointment. Yeah, pressure and things going on in your life, I get it. Yeah, but why not, just just for a moment? It was just take a breather, okay, and just

16:00 pull right over there at that ultra sound you see that bright colored RV there? Just pull right over there. There's a nurse on board I'll have one of our female counselors come over. She'll talk with you and they'll just get some basic information from you. They'll let you take a pregnancy test. You can have an ultrasound for free. No, the stuff that we have is going to cost you anything, and and you can go on from there. No one's going to stop you from going into the abortion center. And then, if you choose to keep your baby, you already have the Medicaid confirmation of pregnancy if you need Medicaid. I don't know that you do, but if you need that, that'll be I sure would. But that you know, those people, they're on the other side of the window, are telling me just that you lie and that I need to just ignore you and pull in. Well, of course they're the people. They get paid to do the abortions. They're gonna they're going to want you to go and have the abortion because they make money off of the guests. We're of their going to be after you've had the abortion and where to be found? I'm not going to be offering you help. If you've got regrets. There are you like?

17:00 Are you that? Why do you do this? Where are you? Why are you here? Trying to. I mean it, this baby, you don't know this baby. Why do you care? That's true. I care because the Lord cares about you. He cares about your baby. He saved me. He rescued me. I was a dad at seventeen years old in high school. Wow, the Lord has really turned my life right side up by what he's done in my life. And what happened? Did you did you keep the baby? Yeah, yeah, our daughters twenty three years old now and she's a blessing from the Lord. Wow. I remember thinking those thoughts that abortion might be the best option. But thank God my girlfriend, who's now my wife, Oh, wow, she's life. She was fifteen, I was seventeen. That was a difficult situation. Wow. But the Lord redeemed it. And in that situation, not not exactly like yours, but much like your situation, where there was this pressure and there was this this temptation to trust abortion and to go that way, God graciously use that terrible situation, which we couldn't see any into any light of the end of the tunnel. God Use that situation to turn our lives right side up, and so he can do that to you. What you've got to do is you've got to put your trust in him, and this is really, really a trust issue. Will you trust him? Are you going to trust those people that are getting paid to take the life of your baby? I, like I said, I don't know. I don't know how much I believe in in God right now or to trust him. But but you say it's free. Yeah, no, and no one know. I mean I I got to get an ultrasound. I guess in there is it, isn't

18:30 it make can I just go in there and well, they're going to charge you money and there to get the ultrasound and then often times they're not going to show you the ultrasound. WHO wonder why they wouldn't show you the ultrasound? Mean, think about it. Why? Why are they afraid if it's just a blob of tissue, a clump of cells? We've talked to many women that have gone in there. They've paid a hundred eighty five dollars for the ultrasound and they won't even show it to him. And that kind of scanal with HMM, yeah, there's would I saw on the ultrasound? You you think I would actually see a heart? Couldn't? Can I see you hard. Well, I think, depending on how far along you are. If you're correct and thinking that you're four weeks along, probably too early to really see anything, but I would guess that you're maybe a little further along than that and I think the nurse on board would certainly be able to pin that down for you and and get you the get you in the right direction.

19:18 So you just so, you said you would. I wouldn't be homeless. You you'd be able to find me a place. Absolutely. Yeah, we have all kinds of ministries in the Charlotte area. You from the Charlotte area? Oh, yeah, okay, yeah, we have ministries. You know, even if you're not from the Charlotte area, we have connections with ministries all over the southeast here. Yeah, but I don't I don't know. I mean I'm like, what about all the things I would need? I I I'm just barely making it. That's why my boyfriend kicks me out, and not only do I have no place to live, but I can barely afford even food for us. Yeah, that alone. I mean a baby. Yeah, I can't. I don't have anyone that's going to be giving me things. And so what what would I do? Yeah. Well, again, I'm not pretending the situation is going to be going to be perfect, that everything's going to be provided or anything like that, but we do have resources to meet your needs. We've got got churches from all over the Charlotte area that will walk alongside you, that will help you with some of those financial struggles, will throw you a baby shower, given many of the things that you need for your baby. Will will help you out with diapers and formula. Will help you again to find a place to stay.

20:29 We've helped women get plugged into a maternity home or apartment. We can help you with all kinds of stuff. It's really just kind of a one step at a time, like, take the first good step, do the do the first right thing and then the other things will come along as you put your trust in the Lord. You're saying I could go see my baby right now. Yeah, absolutely, okay, and no strings attached. Every strings attached, I mean. Mean I certainly don't want you to go in there and take the life of your baby. I don't want that to happen, but I can't stop you. So if you go on that mobiltra sound unit, you see your baby, you decide. You know, I still got to do this. I still got to have the abortion. There's nothing we can do to stop you. We're going to not going to lock you in the in the in the RV. You can step right out and go and keep your appointment at the abortion center. But I do think they would be good for you this. Do at least give your baby a chance. Just give your child a chance. You, obviously, you've been talking to me for fifteen, twenty minutes now. Obviously, to me, you don't want to do this. Well, to tell you the truth, I didn't sleep at all last night. Yeah, and I was I don't pray. I haven't prayed in a long time, right, but I mean I was just thinking, God, if, if you're there, just give me a sign.

21:51 Yeah, he's maybe, I don't know, maybe this is I don't know, maybe this has got sign. Yeah, I mean, think about it. You just showed up to an abortion clinic. Yeah, you probably thought if you did see people out here, they're just going to be yelling at you. Yeah, that's what they told me. Yeah, I, and I and yet you stopped and talk to me. We've been having a conversation for quite a while. Yeah, I look like some mean, angry person to you, not like what they described. Yeah, then you've got a whole sidewalk full of people out here. Yeah, they're offering help. You got a free ultrasound, free pregnancy test right there. I think this might be an answer to the prayer that you pray and got to give me a sign. This is your sign. I mean I think if you prayed that, the Lord answered it. He did his part. Want you do yours. Just go see your baby on the ultrasound. HMM, well, maybe I'll just go in and, you know, and let them know.

22:41 Yeah, well, listen, I get it. You got an appointment. Yeah, feel like you got to keep that appointment. Yeah, I certainly understand that. But, as I mentioned, these people are the ones zip make money. They are the ones that get paid and once you get inside of that place, they're going to have a hook in you and they're going to try to everything they can to make you go through with this abortion again. They're they're a business. That said happen. If you heard that, that absolutely, absolutely it happens. Wow, because, again, you think about it, they're they're a business that makes money off of abortions. They don't want use, while they told you that we're a bunch of angry, mean protesters out here, because they don't want you to stop and talk with us. They don't want you to go on that RV because they know that you'll see there your baby, quite possibly, and you'll realize that that baby has value and you need to protect it and not go through with the abortion.

23:33 What do I do about my boyfriend? Yeah, I mean, he's going to be mad, sure, but I think about it, this is a guy who's pressuring you to do something that you said earlier you don't really want to do. Is that really a guy that you need to be concerned about his opinion? Think about it, he's trying to pressure you to take the life of his own child. Yeah, I mean mean, you know, like I said, sometimes he's a real jerk. But is there someone that would talk to him? Yeah, absolutely love to have lunch with him, sit down with him if he's willing to. I'll call him on the phone, I'll text him whatever, I'll try to reach out to him and maybe I've seen situations, actually quite a few situations, where the guy is pressuring the woman to have an abortion. Yeah, and yet after she chooses life and she decides she's not going to have the abortion. He backs off and then ends up embracing fatherhood and is like actually a pretty good guy, like God can use this situation to turn his life around. To it is that what happened to you in some measure, that's what happened to me.

24:40 Yeah, and I know from from talking to many men. Sometimes, maybe I don't know the whole situation. He could just be a complete jerk or he could maybe he's never had a father in his life. Maybe he's never seen it it is to be a dacent. He doesn't and honestly he just I mean, this happened so fast. I haven't really known him all that long, but we moved in together and, yeah, I got pregnant and he doesn't have kids and he just got a new job. So, yeah, he was kind of freaking out. Yeah, and he's speaking from a place of fear. Yeah, and probably is scared of even the prospect of being a dad. But here's the reality, here's what I want you to understand. Right before you on that mobile units probably says as much as I can say. I think it would be important for you just to go over there talk to the nurse there, get a pregnancy test. ULDER sound.

25:33 Think that'd be good. But I will say this, whatever the situation is, your baby is precious. You're a mother already. Your boyfriend, he's a father already. That's not something that's going to happen in the undefined future. He's going to be a dad. You're going to be a mom. You're already a mom. There's a baby inside of your womb right now that's alive right now. That child is your son or your daughter, and to go inside of that place and to pay them your money to take the life of your baby, ultimately that's going to lead to the destruction of your child. Your son or daughter will die, and that's the truth of what abortion does, and I know they didn't want you to understand that truth. Inside of their they want you to believe it's just a Blob of tissue. Yeah, that's what they said. Of course, a product of conception and yeah, it would be okay and it wasn't a really big deal. Does it hurt to abortions her? Wow, I've never had one myself, but I have talked to many women that have. Yeah, and even with the abortion pill, sometimes people imagine like that's that's a little less. Yeah, that's what I would ever, because, yeah, I don't. I wouldn't do the surgery because, yeah, that rips. I heard that rips the you know, product of conception apart. But I don't know. That was gross.

26:48 But but a pill, I mean you just take a pill and right. Yeah, yeah, even that is a pretty violent procedure. You read the paperwork they give you. Inside of there, it'll tell you that went out of five hundred women that take the abortion pill to go through the abortion peel procedure will require a blood transfusion. Oh Wow, so they probably told you they don't just be like a minstrel. Yeah, Cole, yeah, that's what they said. Yeah, that's not true. So, matter of fact, there are many people that have had a gone through the abortion peel procedure and have put their testimonies online of how pretty, pretty gruesome it was. You're going to be bleeding again. If you read the paperwork that they give you, not just what they told you, but read the fine print in the paperwork, they say that you'll be passing golf ball size blood clots.

27:36 Yeah, yeah, that's awful. Is this picture here of does that really happen? That's what in a abortion looks like. Yet that, yeah, that's an aboarded baby. That's a baby at about eleven weeks. That has been aboarded. Now you're earlier than that from what you told me. Yeah, but still, your baby has a head, arms, legs, fingers and toes. He or she they're they're very small. Yeah, but yet they're still going to be brutally killed a byut what goes on inside of that place. So, yeah, this is a graphic truth right here. You see it in our brochure. Yeah, of what abortion does. That's not in there just to GROC you out. That's in there to share with you the truth. Hey, the fact of the matter is you can believe the lie that it's a Blob of tissue or clump of cells and it's not a baby, but you're going to understand the truth about abortion. The stuff that I'm telling you, I'm not telling you out of just like my opinion.

28:27 I'm speaking from medical fact. I'm I'm speaking from a perspective of knowledge, not just I'm not trying to sell you anything. I don't have anything that I want you to buy from me. I'm not asking for you to give me donations or anything like that. We have things we want to give you. So I have no reason to lie to you. And even if I was, you got a smartphone. There the stuff that I'm telling you. Check it out. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't dare to look at sure what what happened or what that baby looks at like. You know at the stage that I am. But yeah, maybe I should. Yeah, definitely. I mean you're going to understand the truth about abortion, right. They want you to believe this blabla tissue, a clump of sales, but you're not going to be able to help but to satisfy your curiosity, oftentimes only after you've had the abortion. Of really was what that guy saying true? Was My baby's heart really beating? My baby really have little arms and legs, fingers and toes with really a baby? And you're going to find out that truth. So tell you what I think. There's been a great conversation. I appreciate you stop it and talking, but why not just pull over there? It's going board that mobiltrus on unit again. You can step right off and go in the abortion of Gif you want to, but why not just go over there and just take advantage of that for free and and just see see what happens. All right, all right, I'll try, I'll give it a shot. I'll go on over, all right, cool, thank you. Yeah, thank you, faith. All right.

29:56 Well, so that was our role playing scenarios. That was actually very realistic. Honestly, that is a very little the things that I said are, honestly, things that I've heard probably thousands of times. Yeah, yeah, you did it. You did a good job. Okay, did a good job. So so I will critique you now. Okay, said that so that our audience will know, because I've been again, I've been on both sides of this and both hearing the mom and and being the counselor, and y asked a lot of questions. You were very empathetic. I got this sense that you were hearing me, and that's really important. I've had many moms tell me that it's very important that you reflect upon what they have said and make sure they feel that they have been hurt. So you didn't minimize right the situation that I was in, but you introduced gently the reality.

30:49 Yeah, you know, you reframed and rephrased what I was saying. From a completely different perspective than what I was seeing it from, and I was seeing it from a position of fear, which you said, yeah, and you were seeing it from God's eyes. And what? What? What was really happening? So that was that was really good. It kind of helped to just bring that. You were calm, yeah, and while I was terrified and frantic. And so they bringing that calm. We've heard that over and over again, that it that they feel calm and peace, and especially once they get on. Yeah, v Absolutely. But so it's really important when you're talking with the mom to be that way. And so so you were taking the name. That's one of those strategies that we do a lot.

31:37 I purposely gave myself the name faith to see you would run with that one. But it's always good, I think. Oftentimes there's clues. Yeah, and so using those clues to to help. And then what when faith began to waiver, that you didn't you. You took your time before kind of making the closing point. Look, just why don't you go on the RV? You you helped her to come through the questions she asked in the concern she had, and you talking to through those who helped her to be at a point where she was ready to say, all right, I'm willing to go on there. Yeah, yeah, that's kind of what I'm always going for, is if I can get them to go on that mobile unit, if I can get them just away from that scenario, I know that the conversation can get more in depth. I know almost always that just that initial because I do try to ask that initial question. What makes you feel like abortion is an option for you? And the boyfriend thing was was the main thing there? Yeah, but quite possibly there are other issues. There's maybe even fear of pregnancy and faith mentioned that she had morning sickness and that was a situation. I didn't really get into too much depth with that.

32:55 Yeah, but the nurse would right, they would get into all of that, and the fact that that wasn't mentioned right away as an indication to me that it probably is not the main issue. It's probably more of a like grasping at straws thing, like Oh, here's another thing, Oh and here's another thing, and so all these things are used as a justification. Right, right, but the fact that that faith and these MOMS that we engage with are continuing in the conversation. That's as a good sign, that is a good sound. That's an indication. Yeah, and that there's still some response going on. Yeah, that's an indication conflict, that there is conflict, or she wouldn't have bothered. It's usually the mom's where they just their mind really or they think their mind is made up. In my opinion, no one's mind effor really is right made up, and you truly can make headway with everyone if just the right either questions or demean or whatever. But but yeah, when someone will engage that long, it's almost always there's a significant amount of yeah, yeah, absolutely. Something also that we divulged in in this little play acting was she faith. said she didn't really believe in God and she had been a you know, gone to church as a little girl, Akay, but then she was talking about that she had prayed for a sign. And while it sounds like maybe I was just being easy on you and giving you some ammunition so that you know you didn't like make fool of yourself in our podcast, honestly that happens all the time in the discussions

34:27 with the women. They will they will say they don't bring God into the equation, but then when you do, they do, they actually give an indication that, yeah, they're feeling bad before God over what they are thinking about doing. Yeah, so that's another, I think, keep point to keep in mind. Don't, don't give up on God. Yeah, if keep seeing if you can reintroduce, which you did over and over again, of course, reintroducing God into the discussion. And at finally, and this is the way it often evolves, and in my experience counseling, finally she gave in and said, you know what, as a matter of fact, I was concerned and praying for a sign. Yeah, yeah, and that is a common comedy sing. Yep, absolutely. Yeah. So let's give the folks a little bit of the perspective of an abortion minded dad. Okay, so in this scenario, you're the counselor. Okay, I'm the abortion minded dad. Is the MOM in. She's she's in the in there, or she in the car. So she's she's in the abortion clinic. Okay, she's already gone in and checked in for her appointment. I'm pulling out and I'm I'm kind of okay with her having the abortion, but if it were me, I wouldn't have the abortion. Like it was my body, then I wouldn't do it. Since it's her body, it's not really my thing. Yeah, so that's kind of the scenario. In by the way, that's a very common scenario. Yeah, sort like this apathetic, really, really complacent kind of attitude that many of these men have. So that's

35:58 the scenario. I'm pulling out of the abortion center and I've stopped in the driveway to take your information, and that's the scenario. Okay, ready for so, Hey, hey, there, do you mind stopping just for a second, just let me give you some information. The chaking up. Yeah, well, yeah, so did you information? Well, it's it's our list of resources help that we have it. It talks about what actually happens in an abortion. It talks about the development of the baby. Let me just show you see right here. Do you know how far you drop? Someone? I show you dropped Ya that you're your girlfriend. Okay, and how far long is she do you know? I mean, I think probably, like I think maybe she said seven eight weeks, seven or eight weeks.

36:40 Okay. Is it your baby? Yeah, okay, it is your baby. So how do you feel about your your baby's going to die today in Um. Well, I'm first of all, I don't think it's a baby. Okay, but I mean I'm a guy, yeah, he's a girl. Yeah, I can't have kids, okay, I can. Yeah, and I can't get pregnant. She can. Okay, so I mean maybe, I think maybe. If it was my decision, I'd say probably not. I mean, yeah, could be a kid, could not be. I don't know. Okay, but I'm kind of leaving it on her. I'm just here to support her. Okay. Well, yeah, you know, I I get you want to respect her as a woman. But okay, first of all, you said it it's not baby. Well, so you said seven or eight weeks. Yeah, along. Okay. So do you know that by as early as seventeen to eighteen days following conception, that little baby in her womb already has a beating heart? YEA, that, yeah, yeah, then did you know that it's six weeks that child in the womb has detectable brain waves? Okay, okay, well, so tell me. Does a beating heart brain waves? What do you think is in there then? If it's not a baby, what is it? Well, I mean, I hadn't I'm but a whole lot of thought to it.

38:07 Yeah, but I mean, okay, it's a baby. Okay, yeah, and how about let me ask you if when do you think it became human it is she carrying like a lion in there? Japan's year, no, now, think. Okay, okay, so when do you think it became a little human being? Wow, I'd say when she got pregnant. Right, yeah, right away. And and you know science backs becks me up on that, that from the moment of conception, all the human DNA that that little person will ever have is already there. Yeah, so, so let me ask you. So your you said that it's not really of your concern. It's it's I mean really, so again, like I'm a dude. Yeah, girl, yeah, I can get pregnant, she can. Right. Well, am I going to be telling her what to do with her body? Like right, but yeah, didn't seem like what I should be doing. Yeah, yeah, okay. So, do you believe in God? Yeah, I believe God. And God, what what do you think God would have you do? As the do you you're the father of the baby. We've agreed. Now it is a baby, a little human being, a little person, and you are this little person's father.

39:19 Right, so what do you think? Do you know what the Bible says, or what God says about about your role as as a father of a baby? Wow, man, I haven't really thought about it in those terms. I guess I just kind of figured it was a medical thing that she needed to do and she wouldn't want to be pregnant anymore. So, yeah, I just would support her and what she wanted to do, right, I mean, after all, she does have a right to do this. Well, she she has the ability to go in there and and take the life of that child. But if if you say you, you claim you love, you love God. Yeah, well, God says that that baby is knitted together by him in the womb, wonderfully and fearfully made.

40:09 That God uses the same word for an unborn baby as a born baby. Did you know that in the same word in the New Testament the word is brefos. So the God says in the sixth commandment. You know what that is? The sixth commandment? Um, you shall not judge. No, actually, it's that you shall not murder. And and can when the word murders used, what do you think that's applying to? Like, can you murder a cat? Wow, you can kill a cat, right. Murder is applied to human beings, though, and you said that's a human being. And if that was a two year old, that was your two year old. You two hit had a two year old together, right, yeah, and she said, listen, that that two year old is causing a lot of struggle and problems for me and I have the right to take care of my mental health and emotional health. And so I'm and they're suffering.

41:08 Yeah, and and so I'm going to go kill our two year old. which do you think? You would drive away and say with it? Okay. So, well, what do you think is the difference then? And and you said again you love, you love God, and I pointed out what God uses the same word for a baby that's born or a baby that's unborn. So what do you think? Will God look at this situation? Because one day the Bible says you will stand before God and give an accounting. Yeah, right, right, and you've probably heard, if you know God, you know your body, you know talks about that. You would give an accounting of what you have done here on earth. What do you think God, or what will you say to God when, if you were to allow to go kill that two year old. You know that's wrong.

41:52 Well, what will you say to God if you allow her to go or do nothing to stop, till the moment that it's too late, the killing of that child? That little human understands like the stuff that we go through, like he understands we make bad choices and bad decisions, and so I think, even though it might not be the best thing, he understands. Well, thank God, is God understands everything. God understands everything. He's God. He knows everything. But he is very clear that we are not to sin. that he doesn't want. What God desires of us is that we will follow and obey him. He didn't make the ten commandments so that we would disregard them. In fact, he says follow these. He says I set before you life or death, blessing or curse. Therefore, choose life. He wants us to do what's right and to choose to follow him, and too literally in that case, choose life. So, just because God gives us the ability to wander from him, that isn't his desire, and in fact there is. There's consequences, and oftentimes severe consequences, when we wander from God. And when we don't obey him. Yeah, so maybe you know. I mean you. You're here. You said this is your girlfriend. And what do you think the Bible says about sex outside of

43:23 marriage? Obviously conceived a baby. So I mean you, we all sin, okay, right, but specifically you're kind of hedging the question here. So maybe you know the answer. God's pretty clear about sex out side of marriage. It's we're not to do it, right. Did it lead you to a place you want to be? Do you want to be here watching your baby getting okay, so we when you wandered from God's Commandment Command Men's about sexual purity, it didn't lead to a place where you want to be. In in fact, it's led to a place where you are now in a position where you are going to allow, or at least not stop, or do everything in your power to stop, the killing of an innocent human being, that is your son or daughter. Yeah, and so God's Commandments.

44:21 Do you think he gives that those commandments to Spoil Your Fun? No, but I mean if I agreed with you and if I was like thinking that we shouldn't do this, she's already in there. Yeah, she is. She is what am I going to do? Yeah, well, dragger out or me? Yeah, no, you, you know you like. Like you said, you can't force, you can't force and none of us can force. I can't force you to go in there and and much as I'd like to, I can't to push you to go in there and and speak for your baby. But I will tell you I've been out here a long time and I have seen men that have gone in at this last ditch moment and asked to speak to the woman, and sometimes they won't let them because they know what's going to happen. They know that someone might talk that woman out of an abortion and they want their money for the abortion. Yeah, but you can go in there. We've had men go in there and say, Hey, it's a family emergency, I need to talk to my girlfriend, and that's not a lie, by the way. This is a family emergency. That is your family, that is your son or daughter that is about to die. That's as big an emergency as you will ever face.

45:37 And so we have had men go in say that the woman come and talk with them and the man stand up not only for the child but to say I will be there for you, I will commit to doing for you whatever is necessary so that you feel that we can do this, that we can take care of this baby and allow this child, our child, to live. And I've had I've seen women leave. So let me ask you. Have you? Have you ever told her, no matter what, I will, I will take care of you, I will take care of that baby, I will do everything I can in my power our to be the father I'm supposed to be before God, to to that baby and to to make sure that you feel supported and not alone in this. Have you ever said something like that to her? I mean, not really, just kind of told her maybe o fills up to me. I wouldn't want her to do it, but I'll support her in whatever. Yeah, yeah, well, you know how sometimes a woman perceives that, and I get I understand what you think you're doing is being respectful. But what as a woman, I will tell you that sometimes, what that feels like, what I hear is you know, it's your problem. Yeah, you, you, you deal with it and you know I'm cool. Yeah, but but what I want to hear is that's my baby. I love that baby and I love

47:09 you, and if you don't love her, obviously you can't say that, but I I know that that together we can do what is necessary to support and take care of this child and I'm sorry that I have put you in this position, but I'm going to step up to the responsibility as a man and as a father of that child and I'm going to do what is necessary so that you know that I am there to help you in this pregnancy and birth of this child and raising this child. Yeah, you think you could do that? Go back and I mean, I'll tell you, it may feel like like it's too late, but, like I said, I've been out here many years and it is not too late to that baby's dead.

48:00 If you drive away now, then before God you're going to have to say, yeah, the baby was still alive, but I went to McDonald's to get launch, or before God you could say I went back in there and I did my very best for as long as I could to fight for that life of that child. and which do you think would please God more? And the last thing, yeah, going in there and, yeah, trying to talk with her. Yeah, and you can tell her when you go in there and talk with her, you can talk about there's this lady that I just spoke without here and here's the information she gave me, and she told me that we have all kinds of resources that can help. I mean some of the things you could go tell her. We have a baby shower that provides two years of what that baby will need. We have free pregnancy test, free ultrasound, we help with pregnancy medicate verification. We appoint a mentor who is someone that will walk alongside her, along with you, sir, for the entire pregnancy and beyond, and we'll address every single obstacle she faces and will be there, with the backing of a church to help her.

49:08 If you go in and offer all those things, you might change her mind. We've seen it so many times. Would so you know if would you be willing to give that a shot? Yeah, I'll try. I see what I can do. Is Okay if I pray with you before you go in there? So, your heavenly father, I think that that this young man knows what is the right thing to do before you and that he wants to do the right thing and he's been afraid, but he knows now that he can. He has the right. That's his child. He has the right and he even has the responsibility to go in there and fight for that baby as hard as he can, and I pray Lord, enable and empower him to do what is necessary, and may your Holy Spirit move in both of their hearts and turn their hearts not only to the precious life of that child but to you as well. In Jesus name, I pray right.

50:02 So that's a little bit of a scenario between a counselor and an abortion minded dad. Hope it was informative equipping. There's all kinds of variables, all kinds of ways. Sometimes they're more passive, like I was being, and agreeable, sometimes they're not so agreeable. Will likely do some more role playing of this is a blessing you guys. Let us know, because we'll likely do some more of this and just bring up some of these different scenarios again. We've encountered hundreds, thousands of conversations over the years and so we could probably have all kinds of different angles to come from. Yet maybe in their comments they could, they could offer a situation they faced that has really difficult and we could maybe talk about role playing that. Yeah, yeah, so you could certainly reach out to us and let us know what some of those scenarios might be. You reach me at Daniel Love Life Dot Org.

50:54 You reach her, Vicki, at Love Life Dot Org. I'm not going to critique you because that you might hurt me or something, but but I thought it was good. I think it's always listening in on people. It's always kind of a learning experience. So we hope it was a blessing you guys. We hope that you guys will share this podcast. Let it be a blessing to others. Let us know if you have suggestions for future podcast for us. If you like this kind of thing, the role playing thing, we would certainly be more than willing to do more of this. So let us know. But until next time, God bless give me love for love, give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious, and some that you