Showering Moms Who Choose Life - Interview with Sheryl Chandler from Truth and Mercy Ministry

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.799I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Send Me,200:00:06.160 --> 00:00:10.630Lord. I welcome to the GospelCenter pro life podcast. In this episode300:00:10.669 --> 00:00:14.710we do an interview with Sheryl Chandlerfrom Truth and mercy ministries about how to400:00:14.789 --> 00:00:19.469Minister to a mom's practical needs aswell as Minister The Gospel. Stay tuned,500:00:20.550 --> 00:00:35.850Lord. I felt show passis touchyour heart. Welcome to the Gospel600:00:35.890 --> 00:00:40.369Center pro life podcast. Appreciate youguys listening to this podcast. Appreciate if700:00:40.369 --> 00:00:44.570you guys would share this podcast withyour friends and let folks know that we're800:00:44.609 --> 00:00:48.649doing these episodes and we're doing theseepisodes. We're gearing these episodes toward people900:00:48.649 --> 00:00:51.719who are really on the front lines, people who are, like us,1000:00:51.719 --> 00:00:55.479at the abortion center's reaching out,but also to pregnancy centers and others in1100:00:55.759 --> 00:00:59.799other types of ministry that touch theissue of life and the reach out to1200:00:59.920 --> 00:01:03.310women that are considering abortions. Sojust share these podcasts. Let folks know1300:01:04.629 --> 00:01:07.750just some of the things that you'vebeen blessed by. Let us know.1400:01:07.069 --> 00:01:10.950Reach out to me, D parksat cities for Lifecom you can let me1500:01:11.030 --> 00:01:15.030know what you think of the podcast. Some episode ideas that you have so1600:01:15.150 --> 00:01:19.459you can reach out to Vicky atVicossi Oorg at cities for lifecom. Let's1700:01:19.459 --> 00:01:23.900jump into this episode. We havea special guest with us, Ms Caryl1800:01:23.939 --> 00:01:26.219Chandler, who's with truth and mercyministries. We've worked alongside with them.1900:01:26.379 --> 00:01:30.140They've worked alongside with us since citiesfor life got started. Cheryl has been2000:01:30.180 --> 00:01:34.849in ministry. She just told methirty two years truth and mercy ministries,2100:01:34.890 --> 00:01:37.650but she's been in prolife work fora long time. I think we can2200:01:37.689 --> 00:01:41.609really glean a lot of wisdom fromher and she's just got a unique perspective2300:01:41.650 --> 00:01:46.450as it comes to the Ministry ofreaching out of these MOMS after they've chosen2400:01:46.530 --> 00:01:49.319life and doing baby showers. Andshe's done many baby showers for moms that2500:01:49.400 --> 00:01:53.760have chosen life here in Charlotte andbeyond. And so, Ryl, just2600:01:53.840 --> 00:01:57.560introduce yourself real quick. I've alreadykind of introduced you, but your Ryl2700:01:57.599 --> 00:02:00.040Chandler, truth and mercy ministries.What else you want to add to that?2800:02:00.239 --> 00:02:04.349Your mom, you're yes, hi, Daniel and Vickie. I'm so2900:02:04.469 --> 00:02:07.390happy to be here. Thank youfor inviting me. It's really an honor3000:02:07.549 --> 00:02:12.030to be with you today. Yeah, I live here in Charlotte, okay,3100:02:12.030 --> 00:02:14.590and have since one thousand nine hundredand eighty three. Long Time.3200:02:15.310 --> 00:02:17.860I have two kids and they're bothgrown now. One got married this past3300:02:17.900 --> 00:02:23.819summer, Bethany. She's twenty twoand she's now a nurse at Du Hospital.3400:02:23.979 --> 00:02:28.419Graduated College last May. And myson, Nathan is nineteen. He's3500:02:28.460 --> 00:02:31.650a business major at you and seeCharlotte. Wow, great, and my3600:02:31.770 --> 00:02:36.289husband is Doug. We've been married, Oh gosh, thirty four years.3700:02:36.330 --> 00:02:39.129I think I can't do that math. Thirty four years, thirty four and3800:02:39.129 --> 00:02:42.889a half, I think. Yes, yeah, cool. And so you've3900:02:42.930 --> 00:02:46.280been truth and mercy ministries. hasbeen going on for how long? Well,4000:02:46.520 --> 00:02:50.360truth and mercy will get into thatin the story a little bit.4100:02:50.439 --> 00:02:54.080I officially named the Ministry Truth andmercy just back in I think, two4200:02:54.159 --> 00:02:59.189thousand six, okay, so notthat long. But I started in pro4300:02:59.310 --> 00:03:01.629life ministry back in one thousand ninehundred and eighty eight, okay, October4400:03:01.710 --> 00:03:05.590of eighty eight. So it'll bethirty two years in just a couple of4500:03:05.669 --> 00:03:07.830weeks. Yeah. Well, withoutbeating around the Bush, let's get right4600:03:07.870 --> 00:03:10.870into that because I want to hearsome of your history in the pro life4700:03:10.949 --> 00:03:15.939movement and just how you got involvedwith what you're doing now. Okay.4800:03:16.259 --> 00:03:22.060Well, everyone's got a backstory,including the women who come to the clinic4900:03:22.139 --> 00:03:28.009for abortion services, and they,like I, are typically dragging a trail5000:03:28.129 --> 00:03:32.009of brokenness behind them. My familylife as a young child, in a5100:03:32.129 --> 00:03:37.169teen really involved a whole lot ofbrokenness in my family. We were a5200:03:37.250 --> 00:03:40.599church going family my whole life andI knew a lot about God, but5300:03:40.759 --> 00:03:46.039I did not know God and andall the brokenness and trauma of my family5400:03:46.800 --> 00:03:53.120caused me personally, as a girl, to never want marriage or family of5500:03:53.280 --> 00:03:55.909my own. I was miserable asa kid and I did not want to5600:03:55.990 --> 00:04:01.509continue that family misery into my adultlife. And so I really embrace the5700:04:01.590 --> 00:04:06.469sexual revolution that I grew up inin the S and I was raised on5800:04:06.750 --> 00:04:12.340the feminist wave of the S andI got most of my moral instruction,5900:04:12.539 --> 00:04:18.139unfortunately, from magazines like glammor magazine, Mademoiselle Vogue, and these are really6000:04:18.300 --> 00:04:24.970godless rags that I caution anyone andeveryone within the sound of my voice from6100:04:25.009 --> 00:04:29.490consuming. Yeah, they led meto very dark and very, very damaging6200:04:29.649 --> 00:04:32.769places. So you can just sufficeit to say that back in the S6300:04:33.250 --> 00:04:38.129and S I was very pro choice. It's just all I knew. And6400:04:38.720 --> 00:04:43.279just to put a little, Iguess, timeline where your listeners can know,6500:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.319I just turned fifty nine last week, so this was back in the6600:04:46.480 --> 00:04:51.839s and you let me tag atimeline again. Rov Wade was decided in6700:04:51.990 --> 00:04:56.750one thousand nine hundred and seventy threeright. So I had a lot of6800:04:56.870 --> 00:05:00.870godless views and a lot of godlessideas and I remembered defending them in freshman6900:05:00.949 --> 00:05:08.579composition papers in college, and Godhelp my professor who had to read through7000:05:08.579 --> 00:05:13.060all of them. But thankfully theLord pursued me and saved me when I7100:05:13.100 --> 00:05:15.220was twenty years old. I wasa junior in college, and he used7200:05:15.259 --> 00:05:23.250a wonderful campus ministry and some wonderfulbelievers to draw me to himself and he7300:05:23.329 --> 00:05:27.009radically saved me, he really did. And the pro choice stance though it7400:05:27.170 --> 00:05:30.250was, was it took a littlewhile for that to fall it took a7500:05:30.370 --> 00:05:33.649couple of years, I would say, for that to fall away. But7600:05:33.889 --> 00:05:39.399fast forward. I graduated in onenineteen eighty three and I moved here to7700:05:39.480 --> 00:05:43.959Charlotte for a job in my fieldof graphic design and I was growing in7800:05:44.120 --> 00:05:47.800the Lord, I was active inchurch, I was making a lot of7900:05:47.920 --> 00:05:53.629strides with with God and Um Imet my husband, Doug. He was8000:05:53.670 --> 00:05:58.910a native Carolinian and we married ineighty six. And in the summer of8100:05:59.029 --> 00:06:03.189one thousand nine hundred and eighty eightI started hearing the national news about Operation8200:06:03.379 --> 00:06:11.180Rescue and this was a pro lifemovement where Christians peacefully put their physical bodies8300:06:11.420 --> 00:06:16.300between the killers inside the clinic andthe victims outside the clinic, and this8400:06:16.620 --> 00:06:24.170made sense to me. This wasthe first pro life ministry action activity that8500:06:24.490 --> 00:06:30.689made so much sense to me.And they blocked the doors. They risk8600:06:30.810 --> 00:06:35.240or rest for second degree trespass andthe whole movement was based on proverbs eleven,8700:06:35.360 --> 00:06:41.959which says rescue those unjustly sentenced todeath, don't stand back and let8800:06:42.040 --> 00:06:47.430them die. And blocking the doorsbought time for sidewalk counselors to reach the8900:06:47.470 --> 00:06:51.870women and talk to the women andoffer help and hope. So this made9000:06:51.910 --> 00:06:57.790a lot of sense to me.As Charlotte Group organized and I was on9100:06:58.029 --> 00:07:00.389fire and that was October eighty eight. That was my start and I've been9200:07:00.430 --> 00:07:05.379involved ever since. I have personallyblocked the doors and I've been arrested thirteen9300:07:05.420 --> 00:07:12.060times. I've served jail time foreach of those arrests. I I always9400:07:12.100 --> 00:07:14.819refused to pay the fines. Thatwas always an option. You could pay9500:07:14.819 --> 00:07:16.370a fine and not go to jail, but I refused to pay a fine9600:07:16.449 --> 00:07:19.649because I thought the whole system iscorrect up. I'm not paying into it.9700:07:19.889 --> 00:07:26.529Yeah, but mostly during that timeI was sidebot counseling and I side9800:07:26.610 --> 00:07:30.160got counseled from one thousand nine hundredand eighty eight to even now, although9900:07:30.199 --> 00:07:32.879now I do very little of it, and we'll get to the reason for10000:07:33.000 --> 00:07:40.560that, but I trained a lotof early sidelock counselors. For several years10100:07:40.720 --> 00:07:45.629our group would hold rescues, wewould block doors about four times a year.10200:07:45.829 --> 00:07:48.910Those were kind of big rescue events. But every other week, every10300:07:48.990 --> 00:07:54.470other weekend, we were sidebok counselingand what we call piccoting at that time,10400:07:54.709 --> 00:07:57.470and I'll get to the reason whywe call it picketing. Our did.10500:07:58.350 --> 00:08:01.579So that's a little background. Yeah. So, yeah, just for10600:08:01.699 --> 00:08:05.980you guys who are listening, wedid it. We did it episode sometime10700:08:05.459 --> 00:08:11.660ago about civil disobedience and how someof that fits into our Christian worldview and10800:08:11.939 --> 00:08:13.970biblically. So we won't Labor thatpoint. One of the things I will10900:08:15.009 --> 00:08:18.410say is that folks like you andflip, which we did an interview with,11000:08:20.089 --> 00:08:22.970and others, even folks that thevolunteer with us now, who were11100:08:22.009 --> 00:08:26.600involved in the rescue movement, reallyplowed the ground, really made the way11200:08:26.759 --> 00:08:31.000for what we're doing here in Charlotte. We're not doing, obviously, the11300:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.360rescues anymore, but it really didplow the ground it it really didn't make11400:08:35.399 --> 00:08:39.000the way and stirred up the churchand got people's attention toward the issue of11500:08:39.039 --> 00:08:43.669abortion and really, I think,made a shift because for a long time11600:08:45.629 --> 00:08:48.990it seems like the the issue ofabortion and being at an abortion clink intervening11700:08:50.110 --> 00:08:52.230like that was just sort of it. It was a Catholic thing. Yeah,11800:08:52.870 --> 00:08:56.019but really the rescues brought the EvangelicalChurch and so I mean, you11900:08:56.019 --> 00:08:58.779can tell me if I'm wrong,but it seems like just in me reading12000:08:58.860 --> 00:09:03.379some of the history with that broughtthe Evangelical Church to the forefront of this12100:09:03.500 --> 00:09:07.620battle and really, Hey, thisis our battle because this is this is12200:09:07.820 --> 00:09:11.370on the Lord's heart. These babiesmatter to him. Minister in the Gospel12300:09:11.370 --> 00:09:16.970there in that context is important tothe heart of God. So am I12400:09:16.090 --> 00:09:18.850correct and all of that, andjust really in the rescue movement bringing the12500:09:18.889 --> 00:09:22.289Evangelical Church along from your view,I think so. That would be my12600:09:22.409 --> 00:09:26.600assessment as well, although rescue didinvolve many Catholics. Yeah, they were12700:09:26.679 --> 00:09:30.960part of it too, but itdid, I think, wake up the12800:09:31.039 --> 00:09:35.919Protestant Church. Yeah, so wecould go on for hours for like king12900:09:35.960 --> 00:09:39.870should do a whole other podcast onall that. I didn't even know all13000:09:39.909 --> 00:09:43.269of that about you, but butwe're at what point did you start what13100:09:43.389 --> 00:09:48.509I do know of you, whichis truth and mercy and and becoming involved13200:09:48.549 --> 00:09:52.350in baby showers? How did thatevolve, and I would love to hear13300:09:52.470 --> 00:09:56.539about how your unique perspective of babyshowers, because yours is not at all13400:09:58.139 --> 00:10:03.019the typical baby shower. I loveyour approach and I love your philosophy behind13500:10:03.059 --> 00:10:05.899why you approach baby showers the waythat you do. So how did that13600:10:05.940 --> 00:10:09.570all about? Well, as youknow, I began it's just a typical13700:10:09.610 --> 00:10:15.649sidewalk counselor. We were kind ofweak in warriors. For Two decks I13800:10:15.809 --> 00:10:18.850showered many of the moms who Imet and kept up with, but each13900:10:18.929 --> 00:10:24.120time I showered a mom I hadto start from scratch to collect baby items14000:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.120for each mom because I didn't haveany supply stored. I didn't have a14100:10:28.200 --> 00:10:31.360storage unit, I didn't have anythinglike that, so I just kind of14200:10:31.440 --> 00:10:35.470started from the beginning. Facebook wasn'taround back then. That means so bad.14300:10:35.549 --> 00:10:41.990That's my next day that I thiswas way before social media. This14400:10:41.309 --> 00:10:46.470was we didn't use chisels and stones, but we did. I didn't even14500:10:46.509 --> 00:10:52.860have voicemail and answering machine on mypersonal phone at home at this time.14600:10:52.899 --> 00:10:56.340I didn't even have email. SoI mean it was literally making call after14700:10:56.419 --> 00:11:00.899call after call after call to peopleI thought might have a crib they were14800:11:00.899 --> 00:11:03.889finished with or a car seat orsomething like that, and those people made14900:11:03.970 --> 00:11:07.409calls to so it did spread out. It wasn't just me making them,15000:11:07.490 --> 00:11:11.450but but the responsibility felt to meto make sure each thing, you know,15100:11:11.850 --> 00:11:16.129was was met, each need wasmet. So it was way before15200:11:16.289 --> 00:11:20.200any of the conveniences of communication thatwe have now. And can I just15300:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.320ask so would there's so many needsof the moms that we meet who are15400:11:24.559 --> 00:11:30.639coming to kill their baby. Thebaby shower was that. How did that15500:11:30.960 --> 00:11:35.029become such a an important need ordid you see that as that was critical15600:11:35.230 --> 00:11:39.629and a turning point for some ofthese moms that you met it? It15700:11:39.950 --> 00:11:43.950was a turning point for some and, like I said, I didn't shower15800:11:43.990 --> 00:11:48.059very many, maybe three or fouryear at this early stage, like back15900:11:48.059 --> 00:11:50.580in Eighty Eight, eight ninety,just maybe three or four because each time16000:11:50.740 --> 00:11:56.620it was he was a huge endeavoreach time to get and they weren't as16100:11:56.620 --> 00:11:58.460lavish as they are now by anystretch. They were just kind of what16200:11:58.539 --> 00:12:05.889I could collect and patch together.But I just over the years of sidewalk16300:12:05.970 --> 00:12:09.129counseling, keeping up with MOMS,you know, that maybe had their baby16400:12:09.169 --> 00:12:11.289a couple of years ago, justkeeping up with them, I just saw16500:12:11.370 --> 00:12:16.279the need more and more and moreand more clearly that the Gospel was what16600:12:16.399 --> 00:12:20.639they really needed. Yeah, right, you know, because because sin patterns16700:12:20.639 --> 00:12:26.360are not broken easily. I'm they'renot broken in my life easily and they're16800:12:26.399 --> 00:12:28.360certainly not broken in their life.So it was just became more and more16900:12:28.399 --> 00:12:35.789and more apparent how critical the Gospelwas and I saw the baby shower is17000:12:35.830 --> 00:12:39.669another opportunity to get in front ofthese women and share the Gospel. It17100:12:39.830 --> 00:12:43.429was just it was kind of anulterior motive, to be honest. It17200:12:43.590 --> 00:12:48.580was like, if I can lurethem with gifts and and it's what they17300:12:48.659 --> 00:12:52.179needed, they were happy to come. Nobody was ever forced to come,17400:12:52.659 --> 00:12:58.500but it was just a way tomeet the need and and their true spiritual17500:12:58.610 --> 00:13:01.330need, which is their greatest need, far more than you know. They17600:13:01.409 --> 00:13:03.090need the gospel far more than theyneed a crib, and they need a17700:13:03.210 --> 00:13:07.250crib pretty bad. They got tohave a car seat to have a you17800:13:07.330 --> 00:13:09.049know, to have the baby.And so is it. Basically, it17900:13:09.169 --> 00:13:11.610works this way. Unless they exceptJesus, you don't give them a crib.18000:13:11.730 --> 00:13:16.120Is that? We're told that.So, yeah, I told that.18100:13:16.480 --> 00:13:20.240Absolutely absolutely. What you do arejump through our religious who's you get18200:13:20.360 --> 00:13:24.360nothing. Of course, not right, but it is the means to to18300:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.750show them the tangible love of Godand an opportunity to share the gospel.18400:13:28.789 --> 00:13:31.190I mean we're doing that on thesidewalk and we talk to them, we're18500:13:31.269 --> 00:13:35.870even the Gospel and everything we're doing, but there's another opportunity to present the18600:13:35.950 --> 00:13:39.669Gospel and give them the ability torespond to the Gospel. And you're going18700:13:39.669 --> 00:13:45.179to share some stories I'm sure.But Do Women Respond to the Gospel in18800:13:45.259 --> 00:13:48.659that way? Have you had ladiesrespond to the Gospel? Yes, I18900:13:48.779 --> 00:13:52.019know because we've. We've heard plentyof testimonies. Were moms and been involved.19000:13:52.059 --> 00:13:56.009Vicki, you've been to some ofthose baby showers yourself where MOMS surrender19100:13:56.049 --> 00:13:58.929their lives to the Lord. Andwe know the Gospel is what changes hearts,19200:13:58.970 --> 00:14:03.090not not cribs and right those thingsare practical means to show the love19300:14:03.169 --> 00:14:07.250of God, but it's ultimately thepower of the Gospel that changes those hearts.19400:14:07.289 --> 00:14:09.600And that's why I appreciate what youdo so much, because in some19500:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.080of these not I'm not trying topoint out any ministry in particular, I19600:14:13.240 --> 00:14:16.519don't have one in mind, butI do know just in general, a19700:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.879lot of these kind of helps andmercy ministries are viewed almost is just humanitarian19800:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.110efforts and the Gospel is not reallypresented. People say, well, you19900:14:24.190 --> 00:14:28.509know, they know that, youknow I love them and that's the best20000:14:28.509 --> 00:14:31.710thing. What yeah, they shouldknow that you love them and baking somebody20100:14:31.710 --> 00:14:33.629K yeah, that should show thelove. But if you're not going to20200:14:33.669 --> 00:14:37.389share the Gospel with them and you'renot going to meet their most pressing need.20300:14:37.669 --> 00:14:41.259Your kind of your kind. Ijust given them a baby shower and,20400:14:41.980 --> 00:14:43.700you know, kind of putting springson the wagon on their way to20500:14:43.779 --> 00:14:48.580hell if you're not sharing the gospel. Yeah, and so my experience as20600:14:48.620 --> 00:14:52.100I first met you, is,okay, I've been to many baby showers20700:14:52.220 --> 00:14:54.210and here I'm invited to go becausewas a mom that I had worked with20800:14:54.370 --> 00:14:58.929and I was invited to go toyour baby shower and I'm expecting you a20900:14:58.049 --> 00:15:05.370party, I'm expecting balloons and cakeand decorations and oodles of people. Well,21000:15:05.490 --> 00:15:11.039your shower was not that at all. There were let a whole lavish21100:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.120room filled with gifts. I meannot lavish room, lavish gifts. The21200:15:15.200 --> 00:15:22.389room was filled with gifts. Butyou were very clear to me privately,21300:15:22.789 --> 00:15:28.110and I think and how you developedyour showers, that this was not necessarily21400:15:28.190 --> 00:15:31.429a celebration. It was a celebrationof that new life. I remember you21500:15:31.549 --> 00:15:37.100telling me this and being so impressed. It was a celebration of the new21600:15:37.220 --> 00:15:41.059life and the choice for life,but you were very careful not to be21700:15:41.419 --> 00:15:50.730celebrating the lifestyle, life choices andimmorality and rebellion from God that led them21800:15:50.850 --> 00:15:54.850to this place where they were intheir life, and so I'd love to21900:15:54.889 --> 00:16:00.129hear how that came about. Didwas that immediately what you were thinking?22000:16:00.970 --> 00:16:06.559I have to be careful about howthis is presented. I did. I22100:16:06.879 --> 00:16:15.759I didn't want to celebrate Sind Right. I wanted to honor the woman for22200:16:15.960 --> 00:16:18.750making the right choice and doing thevery hard thing. I wanted to honor22300:16:18.789 --> 00:16:25.950her, I wanted to encourage her, I wanted to meet her need,22400:16:26.309 --> 00:16:30.909but I didn't want to celebrate hersituation. So it's a fine line,22500:16:30.870 --> 00:16:33.700you know, to draw. Itreally is, and it's a very delicate22600:16:33.740 --> 00:16:37.820tension and my whole minute, thewhole ministry, name which I'll get to22700:16:37.899 --> 00:16:42.019in a minute, is is atension. Yeah, Biblical tension that we22800:16:42.139 --> 00:16:45.980all experience. You guys experience itevery day on the sidewalks. But I22900:16:47.690 --> 00:16:52.370do want to honor and encourage herand meet her needs and, you know,23000:16:52.610 --> 00:16:56.769show her the love of God,the mercy of God, but I23100:16:56.889 --> 00:17:00.889also want to bring truth right tothe table as well, and that's the23200:17:00.049 --> 00:17:06.160tension between truth and mercy. Yeah, since expand on that a little bit,23300:17:06.279 --> 00:17:11.119though, because truth and mercy,that that's the the real theme of23400:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.400the Gospel, of course, butit's the theme of Your Ministry. So23500:17:14.519 --> 00:17:17.470expand on that and how that namecame about. was there a point in23600:17:17.509 --> 00:17:19.109which she said Hey, this,this should be called Truth and mercy?23700:17:19.630 --> 00:17:23.349There was. I was vacuuming oneday. Really, honestly, I've been23800:17:23.430 --> 00:17:27.390praying about a name for a longtime because for years, for probably two23900:17:27.509 --> 00:17:32.900decades, I didn't have a ministryname. I operated under action Lee for24000:17:33.059 --> 00:17:37.900life. I operated under UM operations, save America. I was doing showers24100:17:37.940 --> 00:17:41.099kind of under their banner. Yeah, a little bit, but when it24200:17:41.259 --> 00:17:45.170became very apparent I needed my ownstorage units, I was going to have24300:17:45.250 --> 00:17:48.849to raise my own money for thatand I had to have my own name.24400:17:48.210 --> 00:17:52.690And this was a huge step forme, a big step because all24500:17:52.849 --> 00:17:56.849those years I started, you know, like I said, I had to24600:17:56.930 --> 00:18:00.039start from scratch for every shower Idid with baby items, and then I24700:18:00.200 --> 00:18:06.440started kind of storing stuff in mygarage, I started storing stuff in friends24800:18:06.519 --> 00:18:11.240basements, I started storing stuff infriends addicts and every shower I did I24900:18:11.359 --> 00:18:17.190had to go collect everything all aroundthe city, drive all around the city,25000:18:17.349 --> 00:18:19.150picking through and I had to keeplike an inventory of what was where25100:18:19.509 --> 00:18:23.190and it was very, very,very time consuming and I remember crying out25200:18:23.230 --> 00:18:26.619to the Lord I could do somany more showers God if I could just25300:18:26.740 --> 00:18:32.339be more efficient with this time.And he just really led me delicately,25400:18:32.380 --> 00:18:33.980because it was I was fighting.I was like, I do not want25500:18:33.980 --> 00:18:38.339to have to raise money. Iam a terrible salesperson, if you will.25600:18:38.380 --> 00:18:41.809I could not sell a heat orto an ESKIMO. I would say25700:18:41.849 --> 00:18:45.650you don't really need this, you'reokay. I really it would be very25800:18:45.730 --> 00:18:48.890hard for me. So I toldGod, I said Okay, God,25900:18:48.970 --> 00:18:53.849I'll do it, but you've gotto make the fundraising part really easy and26000:18:55.329 --> 00:18:59.519really quick, because I am afraidof it. I'm scared of it.26100:18:59.839 --> 00:19:04.839And and so now I did namethe ministry truth and mercy based on one26200:19:04.880 --> 00:19:11.589of my favorite scriptures from Psalm ten, and it was just coincidentally, I'll26300:19:11.630 --> 00:19:14.309say, it was in my scripturereading this morning. So I was really26400:19:14.430 --> 00:19:21.589encouraged by that. Psalm five tensays love, loving, kindness and truth26500:19:21.829 --> 00:19:26.619have met together, righteousness and peacehave kissed each other. This is a26600:19:26.740 --> 00:19:34.180prophetic verse about Jesus and his Ministryto to reconcile God's truth, his Justice,26700:19:34.299 --> 00:19:38.450his law, his wrath against sinand his mercy. And on the26800:19:38.609 --> 00:19:45.930cross these two things came together inperfect reconciliation and they kissed on the Cross.26900:19:47.329 --> 00:19:51.569So this is the tension of theministry and you too know it well.27000:19:52.170 --> 00:19:55.960When you're sharing the gospel with someone, when you're pleading with them not27100:19:56.160 --> 00:20:00.880to, you know, destroy theirchild, you've got to walk this tension27200:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.680between how hard do I hit truthand how, you know, how much27300:20:06.559 --> 00:20:11.750mercy do I express? It's verymuch attention. And they're very opposing things.27400:20:11.789 --> 00:20:15.390Yeah, they're very opposing things.Only Jesus can bring them together perfectly.27500:20:15.630 --> 00:20:21.819And I named the Ministry Truth andmercy because it reflects my dependence on27600:20:21.980 --> 00:20:26.380God. Yes, I cannot doneed the Holy Spirit to walk that tight27700:20:26.420 --> 00:20:30.180rope of truth and mercy. I'llread it from the new King James Version,27800:20:30.180 --> 00:20:32.980which is probably the initial version.Probably got it from the King James,27900:20:33.019 --> 00:20:37.369which is mercy and truth have mettogether, righteousness and peace have kissed28000:20:37.410 --> 00:20:41.769M and that's really from what I'veseen from the ministry, that God is28100:20:41.890 --> 00:20:44.569using you to do that. That'swhat happens and from what I've seen,28200:20:44.650 --> 00:20:48.450by God's grace on the sidewalk we'reseeing mercy and truth come together. We're28300:20:48.450 --> 00:20:53.119seeing these two really, like yousaid, opposing ideas come together. And28400:20:53.200 --> 00:20:56.759of course it's a natural fit withthe Lord that truth and mercy come together.28500:20:59.240 --> 00:21:03.000But in the minds of human beings, just in our human frailties,28600:21:03.400 --> 00:21:06.789we can't reconcile. How can Godbe a god of Wrath and justice and28700:21:06.829 --> 00:21:11.349judgment but also be merciful and patientand kind? Well, it's who he28800:21:11.549 --> 00:21:15.509is and you do do well asyou explain this to these mothers. I28900:21:15.589 --> 00:21:18.470know my wife has been in someof those, those times where you've done29000:21:18.470 --> 00:21:22.619the baby showers and Vicki's as asto I have haven't had I've come and29100:21:22.700 --> 00:21:26.180brought some items before to a babyshower, but I haven't had the pleasure29200:21:26.180 --> 00:21:29.099of sitting in account. Might bekind of Awkur. Came to one that29300:21:29.220 --> 00:21:33.089Vicky was at and you prayed withthem. They had specifically asked for a29400:21:33.170 --> 00:21:34.450pastor. Yeah, you're right,I did. Right, yeah, I29500:21:34.529 --> 00:21:37.890remember that that one. I thinkthe gifts were already opened by then.29600:21:38.049 --> 00:21:41.970Yeah, but you came and youcounseled and you encouraged and prayed with them29700:21:42.009 --> 00:21:44.930all. Yeah, I remember that. Now it's you bring that up.29800:21:44.970 --> 00:21:47.279Yes, blessed, that one wasat my house. I remember that.29900:21:47.400 --> 00:21:49.559Yeah, yeah, that's right.That's right, because it's so easy to30000:21:49.680 --> 00:21:53.720be too much of one and notenough of the other, and I think30100:21:53.799 --> 00:22:00.799that's where so many Christian endeavors fail. Too much truth, too much hard30200:22:00.839 --> 00:22:04.150hitting on the justice and not enoughof that love and mercy, and then30300:22:04.230 --> 00:22:11.109Budd to loving and merciful without sharingthe hard truth, they'll just end right30400:22:11.269 --> 00:22:15.900back up where they started. That'sright. So I consider the truth part30500:22:15.980 --> 00:22:21.059of the ministry to be what youguys are doing on the sidewalk, your30600:22:21.259 --> 00:22:26.059you're saying you know that abortion iswrong. Yeah, it hates this.30700:22:26.579 --> 00:22:30.809Yeah, you cannot destroy your child, this is against God's holy law.30800:22:30.890 --> 00:22:34.569Yeah, this is truth. Andyou know their response would be my body,30900:22:34.650 --> 00:22:38.769my choice. But we would sayfrom scripture, you know you,31000:22:38.849 --> 00:22:42.849you're not your own. You werebought with a price. Glorify God in31100:22:42.930 --> 00:22:48.160your body. That's what scripture says. So we counter that with truth.31200:22:48.480 --> 00:22:52.440And then the mercy side, onceyou know by the holy spirits power they31300:22:52.480 --> 00:22:56.240have softened their heart and turn theirheart to their child and let their child31400:22:56.359 --> 00:23:00.710live. The mercy side is thenshown at the shower where God's provision and31500:23:00.869 --> 00:23:06.589his love and his care is justlavishly displayed with all these gifts. And31600:23:06.750 --> 00:23:11.430I have to tell your listeners thatthese gifts I are really quite lavish.31700:23:11.589 --> 00:23:15.299They're beautiful. Now, most ofmost of the things I give ar gently31800:23:15.420 --> 00:23:22.339used, but I am very,very careful to make sure everything is clean,31900:23:22.420 --> 00:23:26.740everything is in working order, everythingis well taking care of, just32000:23:26.980 --> 00:23:30.490gently used, in great condition.They're in beautiful bags. You put their32100:23:30.609 --> 00:23:36.970names on on the beautiful tags,so that every single gift is presented to32200:23:37.089 --> 00:23:41.720them by name, in a similarway as God presents the the gift of32300:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.319his free gift to us with OurName. Our Name is on it.32400:23:45.440 --> 00:23:49.519I am a little OCD yes aboutthe gift tax. I spend a lot32500:23:49.559 --> 00:23:55.240of time just making sure that eachgift bag and each free standing item like32600:23:55.319 --> 00:23:59.029a swing or a CARCI right hasa gift tag on it. There their32700:23:59.069 --> 00:24:02.910custom they have the mom's name onthem and they have the ministry name.32800:24:03.029 --> 00:24:07.309They have a scripture, a blessing, and I just want them to make32900:24:07.390 --> 00:24:11.539sure that they know the gifts arefor them. Personally. Yeah, from33000:24:11.700 --> 00:24:14.579the Lord and I am always youknow this, Vitie, I'm always quick33100:24:14.619 --> 00:24:18.259to say really at the very beginning, right, really, almost verbatim,33200:24:18.299 --> 00:24:22.019I say these gifts reflect God's loveand mercy and care and provision for you.33300:24:23.180 --> 00:24:27.089I want the woman is lavish love, right. I remember you saying33400:24:27.170 --> 00:24:30.089that, always so impressed by it. Yeah, I want, when I33500:24:30.250 --> 00:24:34.690tell her, when you see thislavish displaying, I want you to see33600:24:36.650 --> 00:24:41.160a very small expression of God's lavishlove for you, his care for you.33700:24:41.200 --> 00:24:45.440Yeah, that's what I want thegifts to reflect and represent. So33800:24:45.640 --> 00:24:49.240I take it very seriously that thesegifts represent the love and mercy of God.33900:24:49.359 --> 00:24:55.470So I want him to be representedwell with quality items and and really34000:24:55.549 --> 00:24:59.710nice things. And they do.They get two years worth of clothes,34100:25:00.349 --> 00:25:03.150two years worth of toys, youknow, from all stages up from zero34200:25:03.230 --> 00:25:10.700to two books, bibs, carseat, strollers, swings, everything you34300:25:10.779 --> 00:25:12.579can imagine. I mean it's,I call it, from bibs to cribs.34400:25:12.619 --> 00:25:17.660It's the whole thing. Yeah,the whole kitten Kaboodle. So sometimes34500:25:17.700 --> 00:25:19.740for their siblings as well. Iknow I've seen you always ask about the34600:25:19.859 --> 00:25:23.849siblings and you try to provide,if possible, some things for the siblings.34700:25:25.410 --> 00:25:27.210I do, I have. Ikeep some toys on hand that are34800:25:27.369 --> 00:25:30.009probably, you know, a littleolder, and even the few older clothes34900:25:30.490 --> 00:25:34.369so I can I can give giftsto siblings to because I don't want them35000:25:34.410 --> 00:25:38.160to feel left out. How domoms respond when you say those words?35100:25:38.279 --> 00:25:42.720This represents the lavish love of God, and I want you, as you35200:25:42.880 --> 00:25:45.920look around this room, I stillyou say it, like you said verbatim35300:25:45.960 --> 00:25:48.480every time I've been to the shower. I won't as you look around this35400:25:48.720 --> 00:25:53.029room and you see this, Iwant you to see the love of God.35500:25:55.190 --> 00:25:56.910Well, many are moved to tears. Yes, they really are.35600:25:57.069 --> 00:26:00.869They many are. And then somewords, but but many are. I35700:26:02.029 --> 00:26:04.019think it's a I think it's abeautiful thing. I think it's one of35800:26:04.059 --> 00:26:07.660the most poignant parts. Yeah,shower is really the surprise. When they35900:26:07.740 --> 00:26:11.900walk in, right, they gaspand say they can't believe it. Yes,36000:26:11.059 --> 00:26:15.140yeah, they really do. It'sreally beautiful. The gifts are all36100:26:15.259 --> 00:26:18.009in you know, colorful gift bagsthat match. Most of them are either36200:26:18.049 --> 00:26:22.970blue or pink or and the tissueshoe and the tags and all. It's36300:26:23.049 --> 00:26:27.650really quite a nice display, Ithink. Yeah, I've actually delivered a36400:26:27.730 --> 00:26:33.200few of those baby showers and hada I'm like, man, I don't36500:26:33.200 --> 00:26:34.720know if I can fit all thison my vehicle. That's all. That's36600:26:34.759 --> 00:26:37.640a lot of stuff. It isa lot, but it's not like it's36700:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.000not needed. I mean these MOMSare very thankful. Can I ask you36800:26:41.119 --> 00:26:45.680a question that occurs to me becausewe have so many new missionaries coming on36900:26:45.880 --> 00:26:52.069sidebock missionaries. What would you cautionedthem as they're starting a baby shower ministry?37000:26:52.190 --> 00:26:56.109Just in terms of what you do, and I don't mean to stump37100:26:56.150 --> 00:27:00.470you with this question, but youdo something that is different in from a37200:27:00.630 --> 00:27:08.220typical baby shower. I would cautionkind of you were alluding to it earlier37300:27:08.500 --> 00:27:14.980about not thinking your job is tobe a friend. I mean we do37400:27:15.170 --> 00:27:18.089need to be a friend, butwhat we've said, we've already said it37500:27:18.210 --> 00:27:22.009here, that the job is toshare the gospel and to disciple. Yeah,37600:27:22.250 --> 00:27:26.089and to call out sin if needbe. Now there's kind ways to37700:27:26.130 --> 00:27:30.079do that and there's some kind ways. Obviously I'm I'm encouraging the kind ways,37800:27:30.559 --> 00:27:34.160you know, and that's that tension. We are always walking that tension,37900:27:36.039 --> 00:27:41.000working with that tension. But II don't have showers with cake and38000:27:41.279 --> 00:27:45.269Punch and parties and party games andall of that. If I can help38100:27:45.269 --> 00:27:48.150it. Now I have. Ihave if I've been discipling a woman all38200:27:48.190 --> 00:27:52.190along or I know her mentor has, I'm a little more relaxed to do38300:27:52.309 --> 00:27:56.470a party. But I don't typicallywant to have a party because for several38400:27:56.549 --> 00:28:00.539reasons. One, the woman invitesall her family and friends and then I38500:28:00.779 --> 00:28:04.700come in and I've got literally thousandsof dollars worth of gifts, right,38600:28:04.779 --> 00:28:08.339and they're like who is she?And Yeah, why is she giving you38700:28:08.380 --> 00:28:11.619all this stuff? Yeah, thenthe woman is going to have to revisit38800:28:11.700 --> 00:28:17.250her near abortion, how I cameinto her life, what the connection is,38900:28:17.490 --> 00:28:18.569and I don't think she's going towant to do that. So I'm39000:28:18.569 --> 00:28:21.970trying to help her see that.No, you really don't want to party39100:28:22.009 --> 00:28:26.650because of this reason. Yeah,and then a second reason is I want39200:28:26.650 --> 00:28:30.160to share the gospel and that's reallyhard to do in a big group setting.39300:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.440Now, I have done it ina group setting, but it's really39400:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.559much better one on one in amore personal, private setting. And so39500:28:37.720 --> 00:28:44.109what I typically do, I don'tdo decorations usually, and I don't do39600:28:44.549 --> 00:28:48.190cake and punch. What I dobecause I'm bringing all these gifts and trust39700:28:48.230 --> 00:28:52.549me, that is a lot ofwork and if I have to add decorations39800:28:52.710 --> 00:28:56.140and food to that, it's kindof puts me over the edge sometimes.39900:28:56.460 --> 00:29:00.339So what I like to do ishave a shower. It takes about an40000:29:00.380 --> 00:29:03.019hour and a half, two hoursto open all the gifts and then I40100:29:03.180 --> 00:29:06.539like to take them out to lunch, yeah, or dinner, whatever meal40200:29:06.740 --> 00:29:11.250is appropriate at the time, andthen I like to share the gospel over40300:29:11.650 --> 00:29:15.289the meal. And I'm very intentionalabout it and it's tempting to just not40400:29:15.490 --> 00:29:22.369do it because it it's awkward.Making that transition from Baby Chit Chat,40500:29:22.609 --> 00:29:27.480names and all that kind of stuffto Gospel is sometimes challenge most times challenging,40600:29:27.799 --> 00:29:30.400but I'm very after all the workI did for the shower, I'm40700:29:30.519 --> 00:29:36.480pretty committed to making sure that thishappens. So we shared over the over40800:29:36.640 --> 00:29:40.750the meal. But what it's notto say she's got to come alone.40900:29:40.789 --> 00:29:44.670I always encourage her to invite aclose friend or a sister, mom,41000:29:45.390 --> 00:29:48.750the boyfriend or husband or whatever.I mean. I'm happy to have a41100:29:48.190 --> 00:29:52.789couple of others come as well,and then a sidewalk counselor like you,41200:29:52.829 --> 00:29:56.180Vicky, have been to many ofthem. Whoever initially met her or if41300:29:56.259 --> 00:30:00.099she has a love life, mentorthe mint is welcome to come. So41400:30:00.619 --> 00:30:03.339it's typically, you know, six, seven people at the most. Right.41500:30:03.819 --> 00:30:08.369Yeah, they're pretty awesome. Iremember one where a woman came to41600:30:08.410 --> 00:30:14.930the Lord in Denny's. Was it? She is. Yeah, she would41700:30:15.049 --> 00:30:18.650had been a former drug addict.It was in something like that we have.41800:30:18.769 --> 00:30:23.839Yeah, yeah, I think itwas denny's, I remember. Yeah,41900:30:23.920 --> 00:30:27.039I know which one you're talking yeah, she's still following God and she's42000:30:27.119 --> 00:30:32.240doing a she's doing well. Yeah, well, let's get into to some42100:30:32.400 --> 00:30:34.910of those stories. Yeah, becauseyou've got a lot of experience you.42200:30:36.269 --> 00:30:37.549I mean, how many baby showersif we done over the years, like42300:30:37.990 --> 00:30:42.710Kajillian's? I don't know, maybeenough time that math. I A lot,42400:30:44.109 --> 00:30:47.269a real lie. mean the firstmany years, you know, I42500:30:47.430 --> 00:30:52.140was probably first, maybe eighteen years, I was probably only doing three,42600:30:52.299 --> 00:30:56.299four, five six a year,so not that many. But the last42700:30:56.500 --> 00:31:00.500twelve since official, since getting storageunits and getting a name, I've I42800:31:00.700 --> 00:31:03.769do about twenty five to thirty ayear, which is a lot. So42900:31:04.009 --> 00:31:07.730we're talking every other weekend almost.Yeah, so it's a lot. And43000:31:08.009 --> 00:31:11.569and so I do have three storageunits now. I started out which is43100:31:11.650 --> 00:31:15.809one little one and it grew andgrew and grew and I have three quite43200:31:15.849 --> 00:31:21.599large ones now that are pretty wellorganized. Not as well as I would43300:31:21.599 --> 00:31:25.960like, but but that's when peoplesay you have three units, that's it43400:31:26.160 --> 00:31:30.279is expensive and that's my major ministryexpense. But when you think about it,43500:31:30.400 --> 00:31:34.309I mean think about thirty cribs ayear. Think about thirty car seats,43600:31:34.430 --> 00:31:40.950thirty swings, thirty bathtubs, thirtymattresses. Yeah, all of that.43700:31:41.109 --> 00:31:45.230I mean thirty betting sets and allthe clothes. I mean every woman43800:31:45.309 --> 00:31:48.700gets about, I don't know,about three hundred outfits of clothes, at43900:31:48.740 --> 00:31:52.980least I don't know. Do SixTimes twelve? What's that? Knows?44000:31:52.140 --> 00:31:56.059Oh, come on, don't atDaniel and for sure don't answer me.44100:31:56.460 --> 00:32:00.740Six comes twelve, seventy two.Okay, good. Yeah, they're getting44200:32:00.819 --> 00:32:05.690probably about a hundred and thirty outfitsa year. It really is thousands of44300:32:05.769 --> 00:32:08.450dollars with it really is. It'sa life stuff. Yeah, so it44400:32:08.849 --> 00:32:14.170just it takes a lot of roomand it's It's a Pretty Well oiled machine.44500:32:14.289 --> 00:32:16.000The ministry is, but most ofit is is a lot of grunt44600:32:16.039 --> 00:32:20.480work. I'm doing a lot ofcleaning, I'm doing a lot of driving,44700:32:20.640 --> 00:32:24.359picking up donations, organizing. Ispent like four hours in storage yesterday44800:32:24.519 --> 00:32:30.150just, you know, yeah,putting stuff in and out and organizing and44900:32:30.430 --> 00:32:34.710that kind of thing. So it'sa lot of worm. He's hot in45000:32:34.869 --> 00:32:37.630the summer, is hot in mylittle tin storaging. It's in the winner45100:32:38.029 --> 00:32:42.309it's cold, just like you guyson the streets. Maybe it's hot and45200:32:42.390 --> 00:32:45.420it's cold. Yeah, so tellus some of those stories, which maybe45300:32:45.660 --> 00:32:50.700maybe let's start with the we knowthere's highs and lows in any ministry.45400:32:50.740 --> 00:32:53.299Maybe will end on a good noteand maybe you could tell us about some45500:32:53.500 --> 00:32:59.369of the sad or hard things thatyou've been countered. Yeah, because the45600:32:59.450 --> 00:33:01.809case, there's this kind of notionbecause we share stories, we share them45700:33:01.849 --> 00:33:06.170on social media. Yeah, there'sthis sort of notion that you know,45800:33:06.289 --> 00:33:08.410all the stories are great, thatthey all go fantastic, and you know,45900:33:08.490 --> 00:33:10.849in the light of who God isand the fact that the Gospel is46000:33:10.930 --> 00:33:15.920being presented in all of these stories, it's always a good it's always God46100:33:16.160 --> 00:33:19.839is winning. God wins. Aslong as we're on his side, we46200:33:20.039 --> 00:33:25.039win. Right. But the realityof ministry is sometimes more difficult than people46300:33:25.079 --> 00:33:30.829would really believe. And for someonelike yourself that have been in ministry for46400:33:31.069 --> 00:33:35.910thirty two years and really done somehard stuff, people need to come to46500:33:35.990 --> 00:33:38.349terms with the reality. The ministriestough and if nothing else to know,46600:33:38.549 --> 00:33:42.859hey, pray for Cheryl, prayfor pray for Vicky on the sidewalk,46700:33:42.900 --> 00:33:45.180pray for me is we're minister onthe sidewalk, because these these stories are46800:33:45.259 --> 00:33:49.460difficult and they are waity, butGod's graces sufficient. So yeah, I'd46900:33:49.460 --> 00:33:53.259share a share a story struggle andwe get some prayer warriors from the podcast47000:33:53.339 --> 00:33:58.690where you well, I'll just touchon this. One of the most ongoing47100:33:59.089 --> 00:34:04.970difficult struggles is just the brokenness ofAmerica's families. Yeah, and just when47200:34:05.009 --> 00:34:07.809you when you get to know thesewomen, and I know you too know47300:34:07.970 --> 00:34:09.639it well, when you get toknow them and you meet him and you47400:34:09.679 --> 00:34:15.880meet their family members and you findout how disconnected the relationships are. I47500:34:15.000 --> 00:34:20.760mean a lot of the women weserve have had multiple children with multiple men47600:34:20.760 --> 00:34:24.750and their siblings have done the sameand and I used to try to meet47700:34:24.789 --> 00:34:30.550them and try to mentally put togethera family tree to find out how everyone's47800:34:30.590 --> 00:34:35.789related and connected and it's really virtuallyimpossible. So that's been very discouraging.47900:34:36.110 --> 00:34:40.179And I'm always delighted that the babyis alive. The baby is loved at48000:34:40.260 --> 00:34:46.420this point and welcomed and they're allexcited about this baby coming. But but48100:34:46.659 --> 00:34:53.489just knowing that the the baby isborn into quite a fractured family and and48200:34:53.889 --> 00:35:00.929the generational problem that ensues. WhenI mean it doesn't take long to to48300:35:02.329 --> 00:35:07.679break up the family when a womanhas never seen a functional nuclear family and48400:35:07.800 --> 00:35:14.360her life and then her children repeatedand their children repeated. They don't they've48500:35:14.400 --> 00:35:19.639never seen it work and and that'sreally a big problem in America, not48600:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.469just with what we're doing here butall across them. Yeah, absolutely.48700:35:22.710 --> 00:35:27.349So that's been discouraging. I've comehome from showers and cried all the way48800:35:27.349 --> 00:35:31.070home many times in my car.Yeah, many times. So just struggling48900:35:31.190 --> 00:35:37.420with that. And but other low'shave mostly involved the death of babies.49000:35:37.460 --> 00:35:42.659Yeah, that's very hard. Afterall the work of saving, you know,49100:35:43.380 --> 00:35:46.940of saving babies on the sidewalk andproviding for them, meeting all their49200:35:47.059 --> 00:35:52.369needs all down the list of youknow, your lengthy resource needs, and49300:35:52.489 --> 00:35:57.969baby showers and all that and havebaby stye. Is Tragic and I've seen49400:35:58.010 --> 00:36:05.960it many times actually over thirty twoyears. Baby that was saved from abortion,49500:36:06.159 --> 00:36:09.599showered, died of a brain tumorright at her second birthday. She49600:36:09.800 --> 00:36:15.760was diagnosed at our first birthday andtreated, you know, Chemo, radiation,49700:36:15.800 --> 00:36:20.110surgery, all of that, andand still passed away. And and49800:36:20.230 --> 00:36:24.429I'm still in contact with that mother. We actually reconnected on facebook round about49900:36:24.590 --> 00:36:29.909six months ago. So we're stillin contact. We this was this was50000:36:29.989 --> 00:36:35.460probably twenty years ago, and sowe've reconnected recently. So I'm glad about50100:36:35.500 --> 00:36:37.340that. And she has, youknow, know, she's moved on,50200:36:37.619 --> 00:36:42.900she's done great. Her other childrenare all grown by now and she's doing50300:36:42.940 --> 00:36:46.889well. Let me ask you,was it? Was it at least somewhat50400:36:47.130 --> 00:36:52.969glimmer of hope in that very tragicsituation that it was not she who had50500:36:53.050 --> 00:37:00.690taken the babies life, but itwas whatever cancer wouldever? You know,50600:37:00.849 --> 00:37:05.840that's what I try to communicate.Yeah, weak and frail skills of verying.50700:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.960So, but they still always askright, why, you know,50800:37:09.119 --> 00:37:14.480why? What? I should havejust aborted this baby? The same result.50900:37:15.039 --> 00:37:16.550Yeah, and I say no,it's not the same reas all.51000:37:16.989 --> 00:37:23.110Yeah, your baby new love.Your baby knew your warm embrace, your51100:37:23.150 --> 00:37:29.550kiss, your hug, your tendervoice speaking to your child, holding your51200:37:29.590 --> 00:37:34.500child. Your child knew that,knew that Mommy loved her. Yeah,51300:37:35.300 --> 00:37:37.579an abortion, she never would haveknown that. She would have known as51400:37:37.699 --> 00:37:44.369terror, right terror. Yeah,and your conscience is clear. You've done51500:37:44.409 --> 00:37:46.809the right thing. So these arethe things I try to communicate. But51600:37:46.929 --> 00:37:50.449there have been others. I mean, she's not the only one. That51700:37:50.570 --> 00:37:55.050was a baby who died from asphyxiationin his crib. Oh, he had51800:37:55.250 --> 00:37:59.960the flu and she had taken himto the emergency room that the night before51900:38:00.679 --> 00:38:04.559and he was treated, given medicine. She brought him home and put him52000:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.519in his crib and woke up thenext day and he was yeah, that's52100:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.679awful, he had passed. So, you know, she's the one that52200:38:10.800 --> 00:38:15.829got saved. She's the one whocalled me with all those questions that day,52300:38:15.070 --> 00:38:20.150and she was a believer by thispoint. So she had tough questions.52400:38:20.389 --> 00:38:23.110And Yeah, and these are questionsnone of us have the answers to.52500:38:23.429 --> 00:38:27.260But God is the one whose sovereignover life. We are not.52600:38:27.539 --> 00:38:32.820We cannot take life, only Godcan do his will and he has reasons52700:38:32.860 --> 00:38:38.139and purposes and scripture shows all thatand we are just to trust. Yeah,52800:38:38.300 --> 00:38:43.530but very recently a mom who youtwo met right here on the sidewalks52900:38:44.809 --> 00:38:50.409here just months ago, she deliveredtwins, boy, girl, twins about53000:38:50.409 --> 00:38:53.050a month early. She had beenon bed rest but she got to the53100:38:53.170 --> 00:38:59.039eighth month and delivered a month earlyand it was all expected. Nobody was53200:38:59.119 --> 00:39:05.440surprised by premature birth of twins.But the twins never thrived. They struggled53300:39:05.480 --> 00:39:10.429for twelve days and fourteen days andthey both passed just a couple of weeks53400:39:10.429 --> 00:39:15.670ago. Right. So this isall very fresh and so I've been trying53500:39:15.710 --> 00:39:19.630to minister to her and encourage herand pray with her and just be with53600:39:19.750 --> 00:39:23.940her and there are no words.I mean there are no words and she53700:39:24.139 --> 00:39:28.940is really quite numb right now.But she did have those same questions like53800:39:29.139 --> 00:39:30.739why, what would have been wrongwith me aboarding? You know, that53900:39:30.860 --> 00:39:35.380kind of thing. So I wentthrough the same type things with her.54000:39:35.460 --> 00:39:38.090So these are lows. These arelows and these are questions I can't answer.54100:39:38.289 --> 00:39:42.570None of us really can. ButI do know that we have no54200:39:42.650 --> 00:39:47.489right to take life right. Yeah, absolutely, and in all of that,54300:39:49.449 --> 00:39:52.840by God's grace and by His mercy, you were there and able to54400:39:52.920 --> 00:39:58.360speak truth to these MOMS, tolisten. The hope ultimately that is,54500:39:58.519 --> 00:40:01.199that is sure and that is steadfast, is the hope that's found in Jesus54600:40:01.239 --> 00:40:07.039Christ, and you're able to offerthat and that's a tremendous blessing. People54700:40:07.119 --> 00:40:09.389have, you know, all acrossthe world, across the country, their54800:40:09.469 --> 00:40:14.190children die young ages and they strugglewith this and they have the why and54900:40:14.510 --> 00:40:17.150many don't have a person like youwho's going to be there and bring the55000:40:17.269 --> 00:40:21.460mercy of God and the truth ofGod into the equation. So I appreciate55100:40:21.500 --> 00:40:22.900you doing that and I know it'snot easy. I man, I've had55200:40:22.980 --> 00:40:28.739situations, stories that I could tellof these MOMS and these these dad's that55300:40:28.780 --> 00:40:31.739I've ministered to, and you justcome away from those situations thinking wow,55400:40:32.099 --> 00:40:36.369that I really do any good.And you know, and you started doubt,55500:40:36.369 --> 00:40:38.969but when you put things in perspective, like you said, that baby55600:40:39.489 --> 00:40:44.289got to know love, whereas justin the womb and being torn apart by55700:40:44.289 --> 00:40:47.369abortion, would not even be ableto feel the touch of his mother.55800:40:47.449 --> 00:40:52.039And so that's just an amazing wayto put it. Appreciate you sharing that.55900:40:52.239 --> 00:40:55.840Yeah, so going from the fromthe lows. Yeah, share a56000:40:55.920 --> 00:41:01.119story that's just been a tremendous blessing, something that stuck out in three years.56100:41:01.280 --> 00:41:05.590And there's so many of them.I've I've I've been so privileged to56200:41:05.670 --> 00:41:07.989be a part of so many ofthose with you and there are just really56300:41:08.030 --> 00:41:13.710amazing stories from your ministry. Thereare, and it was really hard to56400:41:13.789 --> 00:41:16.030narrow it down to one right,but you can be too if you want.56500:41:17.190 --> 00:41:21.219Well, I have one that's areally very sweet and it's about a56600:41:21.780 --> 00:41:25.699sixteen year old story. Now,I met a very young, sweet couple,56700:41:27.179 --> 00:41:31.820Hispanic couple, at the Hebron roadabortion clinic about sixteen years ago and56800:41:32.250 --> 00:41:37.489I really don't even remember reading meetingthem at this point, but they spoke56900:41:37.610 --> 00:41:42.489only Spanish. So My, youknow, interaction with them was very brief57000:41:42.570 --> 00:41:45.090because I don't know Spanish more thanjust a couple of words anyway, and57100:41:45.130 --> 00:41:47.440I know, like you, you'veprobably said, in my spare time I'm57200:41:47.440 --> 00:41:52.679going to learn Spanish. Never have. If you're bilingual, we need to.57300:41:52.960 --> 00:41:55.760That's really that's one gift us.If the Lord can just give that57400:41:55.880 --> 00:41:59.440to me without me trying that thatwould be the thing I would ask for.57500:42:00.039 --> 00:42:01.989Yeah, so all I could doreally at the time I met him57600:42:02.150 --> 00:42:09.190was to give them Spanish literature andthen a resource list written in Spanish and57700:42:09.550 --> 00:42:13.829say the little I could and pointto the pictures, you know, of57800:42:13.949 --> 00:42:16.940the babies in the literature and thatkind of I showed them fetal models and57900:42:17.059 --> 00:42:21.980they did they turned away and theyleft that day. But I, you58000:42:22.059 --> 00:42:23.739know, I they had my number, but it's not like if they called58100:42:23.820 --> 00:42:29.340I could understand them. The manspoke a little more English because he worked58200:42:29.380 --> 00:42:34.690in construction and he had more exposurethan she did. But anyway, several58300:42:34.809 --> 00:42:39.329months later they came back to theclinic all smiles and she had a big58400:42:39.449 --> 00:42:44.960pregnant belly and so that broke allthe language barriers right there, her pregnant58500:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.719belly and saw her at the clinicwhen she came back. Yeah, you58600:42:47.840 --> 00:42:52.400just happen to be there that thatday then? Yes, well, I58700:42:52.559 --> 00:42:55.679was there every Saturday. I thinkthey probably knew maybe I don't know,58800:42:55.760 --> 00:42:59.510maybe they tried other times, Idon't know, to find me, but58900:42:59.869 --> 00:43:01.869if they came on a Saturday,I was most likely going to be there.59000:43:01.909 --> 00:43:08.349Okay. So, so they showedup and we rejoiced and and I59100:43:08.469 --> 00:43:13.099got their number once again, andthen I had a bilingual friend of mine59200:43:13.219 --> 00:43:16.659call and offer the shower and makethe arrangements of the time and day I59300:43:16.739 --> 00:43:20.659could come and bring gifts and thatkind of thing. Well, I came59400:43:20.780 --> 00:43:22.900and they went through the gifts andI had, you know, Spanish Gospel59500:43:22.940 --> 00:43:27.369material that I can't really share,the Gospel and Spona. So anyway,59600:43:27.489 --> 00:43:30.730that was kind of feeble, butit's the best I could do. And59700:43:30.849 --> 00:43:36.010then after the gifts were open,they started calling their family and friends and59800:43:36.570 --> 00:43:40.289they all started pouring into this tytiny apartment with all the gifts already in59900:43:40.369 --> 00:43:45.320the room too. So and theystart singing, they pull out instruments,60000:43:45.559 --> 00:43:50.559the women go in the kitchen andstart cooking, and I am not a60100:43:50.639 --> 00:43:54.239good cook, and they made therewere from Honduras and they made a delicious60200:43:54.400 --> 00:43:59.150Hondur and meal and there may makingTortillia's by hand, and I want you60300:43:59.190 --> 00:44:04.710to imagine all these little feminine handspatting out these Tortillia's in rhythm. I60400:44:04.750 --> 00:44:07.030mean it was almost it was mesmerizingto me. And they're putting them in60500:44:07.110 --> 00:44:12.780hot oil without burning their fingers.They're doing with their bare hands and I'm60600:44:12.860 --> 00:44:15.420like, why are you using atool? It was it was amazing to60700:44:15.460 --> 00:44:19.340me. It was a breathtaking sothey're synchronized and doing all that and they,60800:44:19.820 --> 00:44:22.340you know, they start singing theirsongs and they start singing Christian songs60900:44:22.980 --> 00:44:28.050and it was really beautiful. Andtheir baby was born, baby girl.61000:44:29.090 --> 00:44:31.170Her name is Cynthia and she wasborn in two thousand and five. She61100:44:31.369 --> 00:44:36.489just turned fifteen a few well,last month, August, two thousand and61200:44:36.530 --> 00:44:39.320five, and she's in high schoolnow. But the sweet part of this61300:44:39.480 --> 00:44:46.639story is that this family calls tome every Christmas. Oh, every Christmas61400:44:46.800 --> 00:44:52.000they call me and thank me,and I mean if it's not well,61500:44:52.039 --> 00:44:54.389it might be Christmas, our NewYear's. It's in that week of holiday.61600:44:54.670 --> 00:44:59.150Yeah, and and the daughter alwaysspeaks to me the longest. She61700:44:59.349 --> 00:45:02.630knows the story, she knows whatalmost happened to her. The fifteen year61800:45:02.630 --> 00:45:06.710old knows. She knows she wasalmost aborted. Wow, she does.61900:45:06.829 --> 00:45:08.500In her English is the best.So she talks to me the longest.62000:45:08.539 --> 00:45:14.139Yeah, and they had another theymarried and they had another daughter about four62100:45:14.139 --> 00:45:16.099years ago. So they have twogirls right now and they work very hard.62200:45:16.139 --> 00:45:22.530They're very responsible family pursuing the Americandream and their gratitude has lifted me62300:45:22.809 --> 00:45:27.610on many, many discouraging days.That's a really it is a blessing,62400:45:27.769 --> 00:45:31.530an awesome story. We have aVietnamese lady who sends both me and Cheryl62500:45:31.730 --> 00:45:39.280and the interpreter notes every every fewweeks with pictures and thanking in in her62600:45:39.440 --> 00:45:45.559broken English, thanking you for forall that you did and for us being62700:45:45.639 --> 00:45:49.480there. It is she's sweet,that's she is jerious. Kind of thanks,62800:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.829because there are many that don't thinkright, as you know. There62900:45:52.869 --> 00:45:54.909are many, but I the Lordhas reminded me many times that. You63000:45:55.030 --> 00:46:00.389know, Jesus at one point healedten leppers. It's only one came back63100:46:00.469 --> 00:46:07.780to exactly, I mean disease thatis incurable, and only one came back63200:46:07.940 --> 00:46:10.539to the right. So we don'toperate for thanks, we operate for God's63300:46:10.579 --> 00:46:15.019glory. Yeah, but it isgood to have things. It can be63400:46:15.099 --> 00:46:19.409discouraging in a lot of times tobe out there, to be doing what63500:46:19.530 --> 00:46:22.289you're doing day in and day outand not have any anythinks. The Lord63600:46:22.369 --> 00:46:27.250Is Very Merciful, yeah, tolet us sometimes hear those, those thank63700:46:27.329 --> 00:46:30.809you's. Yeah, well, yourmodel, your model of ministry, became63800:46:30.889 --> 00:46:37.440the model that I think love lifestrives to follow with their the mentors when63900:46:37.480 --> 00:46:42.639they give a baby shower, providingtwo years of the baby's clothes and equipment.64000:46:42.679 --> 00:46:47.190And that's something that we call outevery day and that alone has changed64100:46:47.269 --> 00:46:52.190people's minds, sometimes just hearing Oh, I don't have to do all that64200:46:52.510 --> 00:46:57.230and they'll come and talk to us. So when you said you kind of64300:46:57.349 --> 00:47:00.869grease the wheels, it's it's nota bribe at all. It truly is64400:47:00.230 --> 00:47:07.659just just showing I'm offering, throughGod's people, this this law, this64500:47:07.860 --> 00:47:12.820demonstration of love, and they're willingthen to trust and to come talk with64600:47:12.980 --> 00:47:15.489you. It does. It SoftensHard It's softens hearts ex and now that64700:47:15.690 --> 00:47:20.929lays the groundwork for the gospel.Except one's hearts are soft, then they64800:47:21.010 --> 00:47:24.489can hear truth. Yeah, yeah, Amen. Well, I mean I64900:47:24.610 --> 00:47:28.050think with that we're going to wrapthis thing up. Yeah, we could65000:47:28.090 --> 00:47:31.880talk to the food end on apositive note. Yeah, and just thank65100:47:32.000 --> 00:47:35.559God for all that he's done.I appreciate you, shy ill. Appreciate65200:47:35.639 --> 00:47:39.440Your faithfulness to the Lord and theencouragement that really you've given to so many,65300:47:40.400 --> 00:47:45.389certainly to me, certainly to Vicky, into others. And if you65400:47:45.429 --> 00:47:46.989guys want to reach out to share, where can they? They can reach65500:47:47.030 --> 00:47:52.030you. Is it truth and mercyPro Life Ministries Dot Org? That is65600:47:52.070 --> 00:47:57.269okay. Spell out and truth andmercy pro life dot Org. Okay,65700:47:57.469 --> 00:48:00.659cool, and they can get youremail address there and reach out to you65800:48:00.699 --> 00:48:02.380that way. And if you guyswant to support Cheryl, like she said,65900:48:02.420 --> 00:48:06.980a big ministry expense is the storageunits that she has and there's other66000:48:07.099 --> 00:48:09.940ministry expenses to come on gas andhallow these gifts and all of that stuff.66100:48:09.940 --> 00:48:13.050So you guys want to help outwith that, you certainly could reach66200:48:13.050 --> 00:48:15.130out to her and I'm sure shewould receive your donation. And if you66300:48:15.210 --> 00:48:17.889have baby items you want to give, yes, you can certainly give some66400:48:19.010 --> 00:48:22.050baby items to her, but sheyear. We appreciate you coming and sharing66500:48:22.570 --> 00:48:24.690and we appreciate you guys that listen. Please again, like I started out,66600:48:24.730 --> 00:48:28.880share this podcast. I'm sure it'llbe a blessing to somebody and reach66700:48:28.920 --> 00:48:31.960out to us if you have ideasfor future podcast. We're gonna be touching66800:48:32.000 --> 00:48:36.840off on all kinds of subjects inthe coming weeks. We just have a66900:48:36.880 --> 00:48:39.000lot that the Lord is doing herein our ministry and we want to share67000:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.070some of the things that God isdoing and also share just some of the67100:48:44.150 --> 00:48:46.110issues that we're struggling with and helpingyou guys. This is for people who67200:48:46.150 --> 00:48:51.590are in ministry and you guys arejust got some questions and things you're struggling67300:48:51.590 --> 00:48:53.590with. When to help you aswe talk, there are struggles in the67400:48:53.670 --> 00:48:58.900things that we're dealing with on adaily basis and help encourage you guys.67500:48:58.980 --> 00:49:05.980So we appreciate you guys listening anduntil next time, God bless give me67600:49:06.780 --> 00:49:19.130our love for love, give meour love for gratitude. I know it67700:49:19.289 --> 00:49:28.119will cost me my life. Nothing'stoo precious and some that you