May 26, 2022

Should We Use The Word Murder To Describe Abortion?

Should We Use The Word Murder To Describe Abortion?

We should all agree that abortion is murder. However, how we convey this truth to those we minister to at the abortion centers is important. In this episode, we talk about the importance of shining the light of truth and some Biblical principles on how to do that graciously. 

https://sidewalks4life.com/equipping-articles/

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.040 You can yell all you want, you can use all the words you want, 2 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:06.240 if the holy, Holy Spirit doesn't convict that woman and she doesn't respond 3 00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:09.720 to the conviction, she's going to walk in there and kill her child. 4 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:16.160 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, and me Lord, 5 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:21.519 I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel Center 6 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:27.000 Pro Life Podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge you in 7 00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:31.079 pro life ministry, and always with a focus on the Gospel. Stay tuned. 8 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:44.280 I felt show passish, touch your heart. Use Me. Welcome back 9 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:48.479 to the Gospel Centered Prolife podcast. Appreciate you guys joining us. My name 10 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:53.000 is Daniel Parks. I serve as the West Coast Regional Shepherd for love life. 11 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:57.600 Actually am located here in Charlotte, though, and I'm joined as always, 12 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:02.079 about Vicki Cassi Org. Hey everyone, and Vicky Cassi Org is our 13 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:07.040 director of sidewalk training now, so she does a lot of training people, 14 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:12.879 actually nationally. She's taking several trips around the country and probably will take quite 15 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:18.640 a few more and helping the sidewalk teams get more healthy and just given some 16 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:23.120 tips and encouragement to those who are serving on the sidewalks in our various cities 17 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.760 under love life. We produce this podcast for you guys, our love life 18 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:30.439 teams, but also for others who are maybe not a part of of life 19 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:33.959 but are involved in sidewalk out reach ministry. We do this to encourage you 20 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:40.079 guys, to give you some principles, some tips, some scripture. We 21 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:42.400 want to be based in the Gospel. We are based in the Gospel and 22 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:48.519 the word of God and just take some of what we have learned and so 23 00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:51.480 it into you, guess. We hope that this podcast does that for you, 24 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:55.200 guess. So introduce our topic real quick, Viki. Well, in 25 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:57.920 in short, it's whether we should use the word murder or not, okay, 26 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:00.799 and how to use the word murder if we decide we should, while 27 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:05.280 we're on the sidewalk of a of an abortion center. There are so many 28 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:10.719 differing opinions on this and people often feel very strongly about this sure whether they 29 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:15.159 should use that word or not. So I really thought we should address it 30 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:22.120 head on. Yeah, because I think our heart as a ministry is to 31 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:28.639 encourage women to engage with us, to talk with us, and so what 32 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:32.919 we do there, the words we use the the things we say, our 33 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:42.479 demeanor, our tone are really all directed towards bringing the woman to come and 34 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:46.479 talk with us. Yeah, and there are definitely things that we have observed 35 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:53.319 over the many years we've done this that decrease the likelihood that the woman is 36 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:57.080 going to come talk with us. We want to share the Gospel, we 37 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:02.439 want to ultimately hopefully be used to save that child's life, the unborn baby's 38 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:07.560 life, and if the woman isn't willing to engage with us, we think 39 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:14.120 it's less likely they're going to make a choice for life and make a choice 40 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:19.439 that will allow them to continue talking with us where we can really express the 41 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:22.840 truth of the Gospel in its fullness. Yeah, and this kind of speaks 42 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:25.639 to this dynamic that I spoke about some time ago, I've probably touched right 43 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:30.280 a couple of times, and that we're not just out there to deliver information, 44 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:34.680 but we're out there to start a conversation. We're not out there appealing 45 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:38.439 to the powers that be. That's why we often say that sidewalk out reaches 46 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:43.240 not protesting. We're not picketing abortion centers. We're not protesting at abortion centers. 47 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:46.159 Protesting and picketing are not wrong, they're not bad, but protesting and 48 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:50.639 picketing is appealing to the powers that be, kind of the larger public. 49 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.800 This is wrong. We should do something about it. I can see that 50 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:57.560 happening, you know, in front of a front of the Supreme Court or 51 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:00.599 whatever. Right, right, and it certainly could happen in front of an 52 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.879 abortion center. But it's just to me not the best mode of operation there, 53 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.719 because we're not just there to appeal to the powers that be. Were 54 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:12.199 there to appeal to those individual mothers. We do want to deliver information, 55 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:15.439 right, but it's not just delivering information, not just putting out kind of 56 00:04:15.480 --> 00:04:19.240 oneliner phrases, even though oneliner phrases are good. We train people to do 57 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:24.240 that, right, but those oneliner phrases should be to the end. The 58 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:28.639 end result would be to have a conversation with that mom not just deliver information 59 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:32.040 to her. Right now, I think we have to start, because we 60 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:38.560 are biblically based. Like we don't I'm not just looking to please the women 61 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:42.680 going into the abortion center. I'm not just looking to please people that are 62 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:45.879 looking in our ministry to thank you guys, say mean things or whatever. 63 00:04:45.879 --> 00:04:47.839 I want to please the Lord. I want to honored, Yesus and everything 64 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:54.319 that I do. And so, you know, looking at the idea of 65 00:04:54.360 --> 00:05:01.439 abortion being murder, is his abortion murder biblically speaking, and I think we'll 66 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:05.319 get two more in depth of should we use the word murder in this context? 67 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:12.399 I'll just say right right away. Murder is what it's taking an innocent 68 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:19.360 human life, the intentional taking, with premeditation of an innocent human life with 69 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:24.959 knowledge. Okay, so we first have to establish, hopefully won't have to 70 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:29.279 labor long on this, right. Is that child inside the women innocent human 71 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:31.279 life? Yeah, of course, as far as you know, the most 72 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:34.560 innocent of human life that there is. They have not had a chance to 73 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:40.000 yet send. Yeah, yeah, so these are human beings. The Bible 74 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:44.199 tells us God formed us in our mother's wombs one hundred thirty nine. Bible 75 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:46.399 tells us in Jeremiah, chapter one, Verse Five, before I formed you, 76 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:50.519 a new you. So God knows us even before he formed us. 77 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:58.399 God formed us. He acknowledges the humanity of the preborn. Right in the 78 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:04.240 word of God there's an acknowledgement very consistently of the humanity of the preborn. 79 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:09.879 This idea is and I've heard it, maybe a little bit more recently than 80 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:15.920 in the past, but this idea that the Bible doesn't say anything about children 81 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.000 in the womb, that the Bible doesn't give any value. The Bible actually 82 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:23.240 teaches that we aren't human beings until we breathe our first breath. That's such 83 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:27.199 a bunk idea. We did a podcast about that. Right for every quickly 84 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:30.199 and easily disputed by the Bible of yours. So I don't think we have 85 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:33.079 to rehash that, but we do have to establish the fact that, yes, 86 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:39.000 abortion is is murder, right. Yeah, it's taking the inscent life 87 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:42.800 of a human being and maybe, more specifically, like I think the Webster 88 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:46.800 Dictionary, is taking an innocent life by malice of four thoughts. So you 89 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:51.800 have malice. It's not an accidental thing. Yeah, and it was premeditated, 90 00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:56.240 was thought out. That's right. And is that what abortion is? 91 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.240 Yeah, yeah, and you know, I would absolutely agree. And yes, 92 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:02.360 it is there. There's no doubt in my mind that abortion is murder 93 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:06.879 of an innocent human being. Yeah. Now, let me say this too, 94 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:10.759 and this could I'm not going to rabbit trail on this, but this 95 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:15.800 is something to think about, because murder, according to the word of God, 96 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:20.079 like God's Word is the standard. Right, the laws of man should 97 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:24.160 not seek to take the word of God and bring them on their level. 98 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:28.720 Right. The Laws of Man, which were originally the way this this country 99 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:31.279 was kind of framed, is to be based on the laws of God. 100 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:34.079 Right. Unfortunately, we've taken the law of God and try to bring it 101 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:38.120 down to our level and we've taken the laws of man and try to bring 102 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.839 them above God's God's Word and God's truth. Yeah, currently, in these 103 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:46.839 United States of America, and I know we're looking at on the verge of 104 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:48.920 maybe rovy Wade being overturned or whatever. I'm not going to get into all 105 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:55.519 of that, but currently we don't view as a nation abortion as murder. 106 00:07:55.639 --> 00:08:00.800 MMM, we think that it's we have said it's in essence as a nation 107 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:05.319 that these human beings inside the womb with they're not actually human beings, they're 108 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:09.319 just, you know, blobs of tissue, clumps, the cells there beholding 109 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:11.920 to their mother whatever she decides as well. They have no rights and and 110 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:18.360 other themselves. Yeah, so is abortion murder? Well, in a sense 111 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:22.399 no in these United States, but it should be. Yeah, in God's 112 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:26.360 word it clearly is murder. Yeah, God's word, we're going to stand 113 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:31.639 before him and give an account for what he says, for his standard and 114 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:35.039 US violating his standard, not a standard that we set for ourselves. Right, 115 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:37.720 yeah, so I just want to make that clear. Yeah. Now, 116 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.080 of course, this conversation that we're having in this podcast is not really 117 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.840 that of it. Just want to set that stage. We're more talking about 118 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.679 and from in front of the abortion centers. Should we say, don't murder 119 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:54.519 your baby, right, right, yea kind of sad. That's basically it. 120 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:58.039 Or were even a bit stronger. Well, look good. Bit Stronger 121 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:03.919 would be to say you murderer. Yeah, or to wear this happened recently 122 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:07.879 where there were a couple of groups out there that we're not with us, 123 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:13.480 but and they were definitely prolife, but they were wearing shirts that said murder 124 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:20.279 with bloody babies on them, and they were and they were calling out about 125 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:24.279 these people would burn in hell and that they would because they were murdering their 126 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:30.159 child. And the the anger and the noise and the shouting match that went 127 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:33.799 on became so aggressive and loud that we were unable to call out to the 128 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:37.720 women about hope or help that might help them to choose their mind. So 129 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:43.759 that was a lot of what sparked this this podcast. But just what you 130 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:48.639 said, we know God's Word is is pretty clear about the unborn. It 131 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:54.759 is a human being with rights and value before God, biblically, because God 132 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.120 created that child in his image. So we know that. And and the 133 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:01.159 it he hates, the hands that shed in a SIM blood. We know 134 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:07.720 that God would not have a mother do this. Right. But going to 135 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:15.480 the Bible also then, for how you deal with someone in sin, I 136 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:22.639 think is very valuable and I was I was thinking about how does Jesus approach 137 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.840 sin? Yeah, and he approaches it in different ways with different people. 138 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:33.480 But I in my reading of the Bible, the times when he is harshest 139 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:39.440 and must angry is when there's a heart that basically he knows it's so hard 140 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:43.240 it's not going to change. Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, but 141 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:48.000 you know the Pharisees or the people that he calls names are, and Paul 142 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:54.279 as well, that when there's name calling, it's too such a hard heart 143 00:10:54.320 --> 00:11:00.320 that they they know, God knows, Jesus knows at least that person is 144 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.919 steeped in their sense to a degree. Thinking about name calling. We're talking 145 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:07.440 about you brute of vipers. Right makes dry. Yeah, sons of your 146 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:11.279 father the devil. Yeah, I mean pretty pretty harsh language. He reserves 147 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:16.440 that, though, for those that he knows are an it. Correct me 148 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:18.720 if I'm wrong on this, but do any of those people that he addresses 149 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:24.200 in that way ever change their heart? I mean, we don't know. 150 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:28.639 We don't know you direct like the Pharisees repented because I called them right route 151 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:31.960 of vipers. I do believe that they're likely some of the Pharisees that were 152 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.759 involved in rejecting and ultimately crucifying Jesus. That maybe the book of acts came 153 00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:41.519 to know the Lord because Jesus, or Peter Says at one point this Christ 154 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:46.200 him. You crucified. God has made both Lord and Christ, and you 155 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:48.879 know they Bible says they were cut to the heart and said what must we 156 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:50.879 do to be saved? Yeah, so, without being into a big kind 157 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:56.200 of priscussion about that, likely, but the point is those who are in 158 00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:01.000 pride, arrogance and obstinates against God. He has no problem with Jesus. 159 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:05.159 Had No problem with you brutal vipers, you murders, you snake's children. 160 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:09.240 Are He that? Yeah, that was his right kind of mode of operation, 161 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:11.840 right, concerning them, but it was only, it was usually, 162 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:16.600 or maybe only in the response of that kind of an attitude. Yeah, 163 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:24.399 but in the generally when he confronted sin, it was very direct. Yeah, 164 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:33.759 but it was not what I would call confrontational. And the the example 165 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.000 that I saw was in John for I happen to be doing a Bible study 166 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:43.720 that that was talking about the woman at the well, and I read that 167 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:52.879 story many times and and I'm reading looking for how does Jesus respond to what 168 00:12:52.919 --> 00:13:01.279 looks like a clear sin? Yeah, he never really responds directly confronting that 169 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:03.799 sin. Yeah. So this is the story of the woman at the whale. 170 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:07.440 Rightly know? Yeah, and we know from that story, in that 171 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:15.000 interaction that she had with Jesus, that she said good, call your husband 172 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:18.279 and she said, I don't have a husband. I'm paraphrasing, and of 173 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.159 course he calls her out. Hey, yeah, we know that the or 174 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:24.000 I know that the guy that you're with is not your husband, right, 175 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:28.559 that so that's adultery or fornication, and you've had five husbands, which again 176 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:35.639 is if elation of God's law. He doesn't call her an adulter, right, 177 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:39.480 he doesn't call her a fornicator, he doesn't call her anything. He 178 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:45.919 doesn't even he just makes that statement and then moves on. Yeah, and 179 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:52.919 and I was thinking why, why doesn't he blast her with convicting versus? 180 00:13:52.960 --> 00:14:00.000 And instead he in essence applauds or honesty in saying, you know that she 181 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:05.840 currently doesn't have a husband. And the all he he doesn't even say sin. 182 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:11.240 No more like he does in other passages. He did. He doesn't. 183 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:15.879 And and I'm thinking, well, why? I read a few commentaries 184 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:20.200 on why. I'm not going to go into those, but but I started 185 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:26.039 looking at the result. What was the result? She is still questioning, 186 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:30.600 she says, could this be the Messiah? So it's not like she's totally 187 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:33.320 convinced. I don't think not with that kind of language. Could this be 188 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:37.000 the Messiah? He knew everything about me. But she goes and she tells 189 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:45.399 others the Tash. Her testimony is so convicting that the townspeople go find him 190 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.919 and it says many are saved. Yeah, as a result of what sounds 191 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:52.559 like kind of a questioning faith, but at least a beginning sense that he 192 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.799 might be who he says he is. Yeah, and and she's in in 193 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:01.799 essence, becomes one of the first Advan less, right. Yeah. So 194 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:05.159 kind of springboard off of this story and maybe get a little more in depth 195 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.639 and kind of glean some principles for our context. Yeah, let's remember that 196 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:15.440 this story is one of Jesus having a one on one conversation. Paid. 197 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.200 He's not calling out across a parking lot, right, yeah, he's not. 198 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.840 He's not kind of street preaching to a whole village, yeah, of 199 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.919 people. He's having a oneonone conversation. Yeah, and and certainly could. 200 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:31.240 He could in this situation, say you're an adulter. His perception, though, 201 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:35.720 was that her heart was soft. That's at least the way I'm reading 202 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:37.840 it. He was very relational with her. Yep, again, he could 203 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.679 have called on her an adulter, because she was, but he didn't. 204 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:48.159 And but notice what he does do. He perceives her humility and her reception 205 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:54.519 of his of what he was saying, and kind of look at it. 206 00:15:54.720 --> 00:16:00.519 So he does spell out her sin and her need very clearly here. As 207 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.720 he talks about water. You know, yes, says, you come seeking 208 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:07.799 this water, but I have water that he who drinks of it will never 209 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:14.080 thirst again. So he's comparing really himself to what she's so she has had 210 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:18.200 five husbands and now she's with a guy she's not married to. He's seeking 211 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.159 something. Yeah, she's seeking water. Air Quotes Right. Yeah, Jesus 212 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:26.200 is saying, in a sense, you're seeking water, you're seeking fulfillment with 213 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:30.120 men, but understand that the water that I have the fulfillment, because that's 214 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.360 the symbol, the symbolism. We need water, we need this fulfillment of 215 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:37.080 water in our lives. The water you've been seeking after with these men is 216 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.720 never going to feel you, but the water that I give, that water 217 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.360 will you, will quench your thirsty and you'll never be thirsty again. So, 218 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.080 yeah, he is confronting her sin, he is confronting her pursuit of 219 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:56.240 Sin, but he's also showing her actually, there there's another option. You 220 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:59.799 don't have to continue to pursue sin, and I think we can do that 221 00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:03.759 too. Now we do have to be careful because you can say, well, 222 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:06.839 you know, there are women coming to the abortion center who are prideful 223 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.039 and arrogant, and certainly there are, and so our response could be, 224 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:11.559 as they're walking in I don't want your eff and help. You know, 225 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:17.039 we've heard it right. I don't want you guys are out here judging people. 226 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:18.759 You get, you know, you got the hard hearts that come across. 227 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:22.680 It's very phariseeical M and so we could say, well, since Jesus 228 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:26.640 called the Pharisees a Brood of Vipers, then now I can call out back 229 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:30.160 across the parking lot to a young lady who's hardhearted and say, well, 230 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:34.079 you're a filthy murderer, right, and you could be perfectly justified. Well, 231 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:37.839 can and maybe you're going to make this point, but can I just 232 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:42.839 entercede that that there is a difference between Jesus and his knowledge of the human 233 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:49.240 heart and us and our ability to truly see, because in those situations, 234 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:56.160 invariably those really angry people, if you can get into a conversation with them 235 00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:03.400 and break through their defensive is, they oftentimes are the ones that are most 236 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.720 hurting and you're able to really change. Not Not you, the Holy Spirit 237 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:14.039 is able to change and and and bring that conversation to a much better place. 238 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:17.680 Yeah, yeah, the reality is, of course we don't know human 239 00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:19.920 hearts. That's right. Jesus does, right, yeah, but even if 240 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:23.880 we were to know their kind of full scope of their hearts, and there 241 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:29.440 I'm sure there are people that come in that are just as obstinate and just 242 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.480 as wicked as the Pharisees going into the boys, I'm sure. Yeah. 243 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:36.720 The reality is, though, we have to contend with the fact that there 244 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:41.839 are others who are humbled, who, in their same state that that, 245 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:45.279 are listening to what we're saying. And so if we call it out across 246 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:51.640 the parking lot, maybe very justifiably, you're a murderer. Maybe we could 247 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:56.519 do that justifiably because they're in a pharisee of kind of mindset. We're kind 248 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:03.319 of putting the Kabbash, if I could use a technical term, on the 249 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:06.519 other conversations that we might otherwise have of those who were sitting in their cars, 250 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:08.799 those you are watching the situation. So we do want to make sure 251 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:12.240 that what we come across as with our words, with our body language, 252 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:15.839 we talk about this a lot, with our facial expressions, as inviting. 253 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:22.039 We don't want to shut down conversations that are happening or that would happen, 254 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.279 and so I do think we need to be careful not to come across. 255 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:29.200 Certainly listen. What we're doing is confrontational enough. Standing in front of a 256 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.640 place where children are dying, pleading with people not to kill their children, 257 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:36.160 shutting the light of WHO Jesus is at the darkest place in our city. 258 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:42.160 It's confrontational. The Christians life is a confrontational life. It's a confrontation with 259 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:45.960 darkness. Right, when you live your life for Jesus, shining the light 260 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:52.079 of who he is, you're in confrontation constantly. But we don't need to 261 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.400 be unnecessarily confrontational. We don't need to be over the top. If we 262 00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:00.200 examine our hearts, a lot of times when we respond in anger or we 263 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:06.960 respond to what we think is maybe this righteous indignation, the reality is we're 264 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:11.559 responding out of angst. Will responding out of anger and we're responding out of 265 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:17.119 almost kind of like defending ourselves right. We just can't do that. MMMM. 266 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:21.200 We have to respond out of love, out of kindness, out of 267 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:25.039 truth. Right, the standard of truth is God's word. We got US 268 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:29.720 respond out of that. But we're not out there to let everybody know how 269 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:33.799 right we are. Right, out there to let them know that there's one 270 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.680 like in this story, who can give them a drink of water. Yeah, 271 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:40.920 that if they'll take of that water, they'll never thirst again. Yeah, 272 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:42.880 and we want to draw them to us so that that that we can 273 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:47.480 have that conversation. But as I was thinking about it further, because there 274 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:53.359 are Zillions of examples where I've seen someone on the sidewalk very confrontational with the 275 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:59.920 women and it just turns into a shouting match and and nothing happens, nothing 276 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:04.880 good happens, as opposed to a counselor who is trying to relate and trying 277 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:11.480 and showing compassion to the women and hearing her that it can d escalate and 278 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.119 and then more is than there is a true conversation that's going to happen. 279 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:21.480 And I was thinking it is not unlike crisis intervention, what we do out 280 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:26.359 on the sidewalk. We are the women are in crisis and we are there 281 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.480 to try and help them out of that crisis. The crisis is there about 282 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:34.400 to kill her baby and that is a something we don't want to to happen. 283 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:41.000 And so I started looking up and studying. What do people who study 284 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:47.200 and do crisis intervention? What do they do? And I came across a 285 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:52.640 really great article, which we do link that article in the article that I 286 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:57.799 wrote about this podcast. But it says the goal of crisis intervention is to 287 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:03.000 d escalate and in a sense that is our goal right one of our goals 288 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:07.599 out there. We don't want tensions to rise. These women are in crisis, 289 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.960 the tensions are high and as soon as that that, if the tensions 290 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:18.559 are, you know, by our actions or words, are risen, are 291 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:22.680 raised to an even greater level, we're going to lose the opportunity to intervene 292 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.799 because they're going to rush in that we have just increased the crisis in their 293 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:33.200 heart. So the goal is of a crisis intercessor is to descalate and they 294 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:38.680 gave some tips in this article that we're so I thought helpful as a sidewalk 295 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:45.279 counselor. The first one was foster support. Let these women feel that they 296 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:51.960 are supported, not in their decision to kill, but in just in the 297 00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:56.480 fact there is someone who is here that cares about you and is willing to 298 00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:03.680 to be there for you to help you work through this crisis. And if 299 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:07.839 they feel that support, like someone that's about to jump off a bridge, 300 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.519 if there's someone that is fostering the idea that there is someone here for them, 301 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.039 someone to support them. It leads to a better outcome. Okay, 302 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:22.680 focus on resolution, of solving the problem underlying the crisis, and that's something 303 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:30.440 that if you're just shouting you're about to murder your baby, that's actually the 304 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:37.640 result of the crisis, but it is not looking at what caused the crisis 305 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:41.480 and your focus is not on that. Did does that make sense? Yeah, 306 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:47.680 so, so one of the things they said that helps to focus on 307 00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:53.799 resolution building that person self image and self confidence, their image. That woman 308 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:59.839 right now has lost the image of herself as a God. Bear it bearing 309 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:04.960 the image of God and given the beautiful role as a mother and protector of 310 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:10.799 her child. Yeah, that's her real self. That should be herself image. 311 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:17.240 So fostering confidence in that image somehow is would be the role in crisis 312 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:22.319 intervention. One of the things that really spoke to me for a Christ someone 313 00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:29.759 trained in crisis intervention should take a less authoritative, less controlling, less confrontational 314 00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:33.519 approach, and you actually will have more control over the situation. Okay, 315 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:37.519 so you're not shutting it down before it even starts, right, you're able 316 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:41.640 to keep the conversation going in, the interaction going, because you're not coming 317 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.480 across as being overbearing and an and a jerk. That's right. One of 318 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:49.640 the worst things in any relation is if you turn into a shouting match. 319 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:53.960 Yeah, and then what becomes the issue is not the issue anymore, it's 320 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.160 your anger, and that can happen in front of an abortion center. Yes, 321 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:04.000 well, so. So you're trying to give the person a sense of 322 00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:07.960 that he or she is in control, because right now she feels out of 323 00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:11.960 control and she's doing what to her feels like the easiest solution in someone jumping 324 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.200 off the bridge. It's jumping off the bridge. Yeah, and so you 325 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.240 want to give them a sense of control. You don't have to jump off 326 00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:23.119 the bridge. There are other options available, which I think feeds right into 327 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:30.400 what we do out on the sidewalk. The model of intervention they in this 328 00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:34.839 article was called the calf model. Calm, assess and facilitate. Again, 329 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:41.279 I thought that was great. Calm to decrease the emotional level, because it's 330 00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:45.960 at a heightened level in front of an abortion center. So calm, assess, 331 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.880 determine what would be the most appropriate response when you know the facts. 332 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:53.559 Well, you're not going to know the facts unless you've been able to get 333 00:25:53.599 --> 00:26:00.200 them to come and talk with you and then facilitate promote the most appropriate resolution 334 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:06.480 based on those facts. We of course, know the most appropriate resolution is 335 00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:11.680 saving that child's life, right, but also providing the help right to save 336 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:17.440 that child's life that woman needs. That's right. Yeah. So, I 337 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:22.240 mean I think that these principles, I think they're all they're all great and 338 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.200 they all are applicable to what we're dealing with when we're dealing with women going 339 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:30.119 into the abortion center. Yeah, kind of to sum this up, we 340 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:34.799 need to just let the Lord do his thing. US be vessels of the 341 00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:40.480 Lord to speak to their hearts. Yeah, and kind of just slow down. 342 00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:44.119 We don't need to just speak out of our own anger or own angster, 343 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:48.000 own like kind of disapproval of what that woman is doing. We need 344 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:51.960 to like, you can yell all you want, you can use all the 345 00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:55.480 words you want, if the Holy Holy Spirit doesn't convict that woman and she 346 00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:57.799 doesn't respond to the conviction, she's going to walk in there and kill her 347 00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:04.319 child. Yeah. Um, and so there's a scripture here that I thought 348 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.640 that I would share that I think has to do with this speaks directly to 349 00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:12.680 this and potentially to any not just using the word murder. I think we're 350 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:18.440 using. Should we use the word murder as a springboard for just how we 351 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:22.599 should operate right, how we should come across? Yes, and so here 352 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.799 in Second Timothy Chapter Two, I've read the scripture before, but I think 353 00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:30.519 it's a good one to fresh, to ponder, think, to meditate on 354 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.519 in light of the ministry that we do, since it is a pretty confrontational 355 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:40.160 and intense ministry. And it says here in Verse Twenty Four of Second Timothy 356 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:44.440 Chapter Two, and a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle 357 00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:48.720 to all, able to teach, patient in humility, correck correcting those who 358 00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:52.160 are in opposition, if God, perhaps, will grant them repentance so that 359 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:56.680 they may know the truth and then they may come to their senses and escape 360 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:00.000 the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his 361 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:07.119 will. So this speaks of being gentle yeah able to teach these sometimes, 362 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:11.799 these moments, even when we're dealing with angry women walking into the abortion center, 363 00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:15.160 angry men walking their girlfriend into the abortion center, sitting in the bargain 364 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:19.839 lot. We're that's a teaching moment actually for them. We can teach them 365 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:25.559 what God's word says. We can teach them the value of their little baby. 366 00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:29.160 We can teach them that God should be their refuge and strength, not 367 00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:30.960 abortion. There's a lot of things that we can teach them. Yeah, 368 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:34.319 and it says in humility, correcting those who are in opposition. We have 369 00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:38.960 to take a posture of humility. The Bible says God resists the proud, 370 00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:42.160 but he gives grace to the humble, and so if we would humble ourselves, 371 00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:45.440 he would give us grace to be able to answer these folks. And 372 00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:49.119 it says that we want to be able to answer them and we want to 373 00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:53.279 be able to correct them. We should be correcting false understandings, which should 374 00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:56.640 be correcting the idea that it's not a baby, it's just a blob of 375 00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.359 tissue or a clump of cells. We should be correcting the idea that abortion 376 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:04.680 is is a moral good rather than a moral evil right. We should be 377 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:10.480 correcting that. Yeah, but ultimately it says if God perhaps will grant them 378 00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:14.599 repentance. So God's going to be the one that grants repentance. Not Us 379 00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:18.359 again, not US using the word murder to help them understand they're murdering their 380 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:22.559 child. Not Us. You not using the word murder? I'm not. 381 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:26.319 You know, I'm kind of like we got to rely on the Lord, 382 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:29.519 right, we got to rely on him to do the work in their hearts. 383 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:36.759 But we do have within this scripture a framework to just stay calm speak 384 00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:40.920 the truth. Can you say abortion is murder to a woman to walk it 385 00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:44.599 into the abortion centre? Yeah, you can. I do, but it's 386 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:45.440 not going to be the first thing that I say. It's not going to 387 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.160 be the first thing that comes out of my mouth and I'm probably not going 388 00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:52.039 to say it across the parking lot. Yeah, I'm probably in more of 389 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.559 a one on one context. I will say your child is an innocent human 390 00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:02.359 being. Taking an instant him in life is murder. You know that abortion 391 00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:06.000 is murder. You're going to be murdering your innocent baby. So I don't 392 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.799 think it's wrong to say that. I don't think it's incorrect to say that, 393 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:11.960 but I do think that we need to be careful in the way that 394 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:15.720 we come across so that we're not shutting the conversations down immediately. Before they 395 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.480 even start, and the words that we say don't come out of just I 396 00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:22.240 want to say this because I'm correct or whatever like. We have to come 397 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:26.240 from a posture of humility and again allow the Lord to do his work in 398 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:30.519 their hearts. Yeah, I think that's really well set and I think that 399 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:36.640 is the main point. And and I will usually tone down those confrontational words, 400 00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:40.440 especially as I'm trying to draw them out to talk with me. So 401 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:45.160 it's something for everyone to consider, because I know, I I do recognize 402 00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:48.200 what you said. It's absolutely true and I recognize there are people that really, 403 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:52.759 really feel strongly they must use that word. But I hope that this 404 00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:57.160 will help you to consider in one context and when to be seeing those, 405 00:30:57.200 --> 00:31:03.960 those more anger producing kinds of words. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 406 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:07.200 I'll just end with this. When you yell across the Parking Lot, 407 00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:12.039 don't go in there and murder your child, you can be you can be 408 00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:18.200 technically correct, but relationally wrong. Yeah, they're there are correct words that 409 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:22.720 you can use, but relationally wrong. And in that context you're not just 410 00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:30.319 delivering information, but you're giving an accusation. Yeah, you're basically the point 411 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:33.640 in the finger and saying you're a murder, you're involved in murder. Yeah, 412 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:37.359 we've got to give again the Holy Spirit space to bring that conviction to 413 00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:40.960 them, to convince them, and that normally happens in a one on one 414 00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.559 conversation with them. So, yeah, I want to have those conversations. 415 00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:47.839 We don't want to shut them down. So we hope that this was an 416 00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:49.400 encouragement to you, guys. We hope that you will consider what we have 417 00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:53.039 to say here. We'd love to hear your feedback on this. Maybe have 418 00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:56.400 something, maybe have some pushback on this. And you think maybe we should 419 00:31:56.440 --> 00:32:00.759 say murder every time? We're probably going to get pushback on this. Just 420 00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:04.200 learning. Yeah, I would love to hear some pushback on this. I 421 00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:06.960 don't claim to have it all figured out right. Vicky doesn't claim I have 422 00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.480 now figured out doing the best we can with what we see in God's word 423 00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:13.240 and what we've experienced out there on the sidewalk. So yeah, we'd love 424 00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:15.759 to hear from you, guys. You can reach me, Daniel at Love 425 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:19.559 Life Dot Org. You reach her, Vicki, with a why at Love 426 00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.559 Life Dot Org. We'd love to hear from you. We'd love to hear 427 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:27.279 just ideas for future podcast episodes and we'd love for you guys to leave us 428 00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:30.400 a review. If you could leave us a review on either apple podcasts or 429 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:36.000 any other podcast service that you use, sure it would be helpful for us 430 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:38.920 to get up in the ratings and get this podcast shared with other people. 431 00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:49.400 But until next time, God bless God, bless y'all. Love for love, 432 00:32:52.519 --> 00:33:00.279 give me our love for gratitude. I know well will cost me my 433 00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:08.200 life. Nothing's too precious since I met you,