Reaching Younger Generations With a Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Message

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.799 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, and me, 2 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:11.029 Lord, I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast and 3 00:00:11.109 --> 00:00:14.789 this episode we're going to talk with Jason Heimnez, with stand strong ministries, 4 00:00:15.109 --> 00:00:19.230 about how to reach youth and even millennials with the pro life message. Stay 5 00:00:19.309 --> 00:00:35.500 tuned. I felt show passis touch your welcome to the Gospel Center pro life 6 00:00:35.539 --> 00:00:39.969 podcast. We have with us today Jason Himenez. Jason Amnez, is the 7 00:00:40.170 --> 00:00:43.770 president or founder of stand strong ministries. You can say both. Yes, 8 00:00:43.929 --> 00:00:46.890 president and found. All right. So so, Jason, just share real 9 00:00:46.929 --> 00:00:51.280 quick what your role is, what you do in stand strong and kind of 10 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:54.479 what you guys focus is. Well, first day, I appreciate having on 11 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:58.439 the podcast and just the work that you guys are doing and the need for 12 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:02.840 something like this, not just out there on the sidewalks but also hitting people 13 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:06.349 on the podcast world. Yeah, on the message of pro life. But 14 00:01:06.510 --> 00:01:10.590 for me is my background is a pastor. God called me the ministry I 15 00:01:10.670 --> 00:01:12.629 was eighteen, and so fast forward all these years later, being forty now, 16 00:01:14.390 --> 00:01:18.030 just loving people through God's word, spreading the Gospel, doing that in 17 00:01:18.109 --> 00:01:22.739 written form, your writing books and speaking at audiences from young people to older 18 00:01:22.819 --> 00:01:26.980 people, to engaging the next generation of pastors and leaders around the country. 19 00:01:26.659 --> 00:01:30.260 So I've been blessed to be able to do that and also contributing in areas 20 00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:34.769 like this, doing a lot of interviews and trying to train up the Christian 21 00:01:34.969 --> 00:01:38.930 to stand strong in their faith according to first creating, sixteen thirteen. Yeah, 22 00:01:38.010 --> 00:01:42.969 so as a pastor apologist, that's my college to help equip people the 23 00:01:42.010 --> 00:01:46.129 Biblical worldview. Yeah, okay, yeah, and so we're going to talk 24 00:01:46.129 --> 00:01:47.879 about it. You know, I don't want to limit it. I mentioned 25 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.239 before we started the podcast I wanted to talk about sort of the youth and 26 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:56.719 how how to get youth to embrace a prolife framework, really a biblical framework, 27 00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:57.920 but I don't want to limit it to that. So don't don't stay 28 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:01.310 limited if it goes far and above that. We certainly talked about that. 29 00:02:02.109 --> 00:02:07.310 But you're involved in some conferences. You say, you teach that summit some 30 00:02:07.510 --> 00:02:10.830 which is focuses on youth or people twenty five and Yees sixteen twenty five. 31 00:02:10.830 --> 00:02:15.939 Yeah, and you're there and you're doing apologetics and you're talking about sort of 32 00:02:15.979 --> 00:02:19.340 arguments for the existence of God and that sort of thing. But also there's 33 00:02:19.340 --> 00:02:24.259 some necessarily some prolife apologetics that come up in that particular scenario and other scenarios 34 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:30.449 that you do. What do you find that youth within the Church or overwhelmingly 35 00:02:30.530 --> 00:02:34.409 prolife, or is it sort of a mixed bag? You know what they 36 00:02:34.449 --> 00:02:37.610 say when you ask them that their pro life, they might all say yes, 37 00:02:37.729 --> 00:02:40.210 but when you ask the deeper questions, you really got a got a 38 00:02:40.250 --> 00:02:44.169 read for the fact that they are actually life. Well, it's a good 39 00:02:44.169 --> 00:02:47.120 question and you're right. I think it's one of those generational gaps, if 40 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:50.719 you will, when it comes to an issue, particularly if you're an older 41 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:53.639 person, you know, probably being somebody in their s up and you're asking 42 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:59.189 a younger person in the church world if their pro life. The older generation 43 00:02:59.509 --> 00:03:01.469 has a particular take on what it means to be pro life, right, 44 00:03:01.509 --> 00:03:05.750 and the younger people have a particular take on what it means to be pro 45 00:03:05.909 --> 00:03:08.509 life. And one of the things that we found even in we even church 46 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:12.509 going young people. You know, we're talking millennials born after you know, 47 00:03:12.669 --> 00:03:15.699 one thousand nine hundred and eighty four, and then the Jins Z generation starting 48 00:03:15.740 --> 00:03:21.219 after you know and eleven, you know, September one you ask them what 49 00:03:21.340 --> 00:03:23.460 it means to be pro life, and there have in the scientific world today, 50 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:25.620 they'll think, well, it depends on what you mean by the life. 51 00:03:25.699 --> 00:03:29.930 At well stage are you referring to? And so, of course, 52 00:03:30.090 --> 00:03:32.689 as a prolifer, we believe all life is precious because we're all made in 53 00:03:32.729 --> 00:03:36.330 the image of God, according to Genesis One hundred and twenty seven and other 54 00:03:36.370 --> 00:03:39.090 passages. So in one sense, when you do ask the question, we 55 00:03:39.169 --> 00:03:43.039 have to make sure that we clarify what we mean by being pro life. 56 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.719 Will specifically saying what do you belove? Where do you stand when it comes 57 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:51.520 to the to the unborn or to defeatus right in the womb? Yeah, 58 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:55.110 and seeing what a lot of young people say now in the church world's predominantly 59 00:03:55.150 --> 00:04:01.310 yes, they will say, I believe that the the unborn is human from 60 00:04:01.349 --> 00:04:05.669 the moment of conception. Yeah, now, can they argue that scientifically and 61 00:04:05.750 --> 00:04:12.259 philosophically and Biblically? That is now another area that you enter into to to 62 00:04:12.620 --> 00:04:15.939 not only define those terms but also to defend what it means to be pro 63 00:04:16.139 --> 00:04:19.620 life. Yeah, so it's almost like with some of the from what I 64 00:04:19.779 --> 00:04:24.329 gather, what I hear you saying, it's almost like they've sort of just 65 00:04:24.490 --> 00:04:29.050 by default embrace the convictions of their parents or people that are older than them 66 00:04:29.089 --> 00:04:32.170 and haven't really really thought it through very much right. And so if they 67 00:04:32.170 --> 00:04:36.050 were to give an apologetic for while they believe that life begins a conception, 68 00:04:36.089 --> 00:04:39.959 unborn lives are precious and that sort of thing you're saying, they would sort 69 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:42.240 of miss the mark. They miss the mark. And so the great thing 70 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:46.360 is at like summit ministries and people can go to summon dot org to check 71 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:49.079 out the ministry there. This has been going on since the S and it's 72 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:54.750 a Christian organization where we train people from all over the country, even people 73 00:04:54.790 --> 00:04:58.389 from all parts of the world come and they come to one of our twelve 74 00:04:58.430 --> 00:05:03.389 day sessions and in one of those sessions they're going to get a full day 75 00:05:03.829 --> 00:05:08.459 on pro life apologetics. Okay. And what we found, and this is 76 00:05:08.579 --> 00:05:13.620 this actually good data, Daniel, because you have different denominations. Sixteen to 77 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:16.100 twenty five year old's right. So you got the college and the high schoolers 78 00:05:16.139 --> 00:05:19.500 coming together. Yeah, predominately from junior, you know, in high school, 79 00:05:19.779 --> 00:05:25.209 to a senior in college. Some of them come they've already graduated college, 80 00:05:26.050 --> 00:05:29.850 some of them go to summit. They come to learn from different instructors 81 00:05:29.889 --> 00:05:32.810 like myself, so they could be better equipped to go wherever it is, 82 00:05:33.050 --> 00:05:36.279 and primarily in the university. Yeah, setting because they're getting the secularism, 83 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:41.439 they're getting attacked by evolution cuss up. But what you finding, the why 84 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:43.879 this is so good, Dad, is because a lot of our church goers, 85 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:47.399 they're representing different denominations, but they will tell you more often than not, 86 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:51.189 yes, I came in being pro life, but now I know why. 87 00:05:51.829 --> 00:05:57.269 You're right. I'm pro life scientifically, philosophically, biblically, theologically and 88 00:05:57.389 --> 00:06:00.230 in the culture. And that's and that's what we love to do and that's 89 00:06:00.310 --> 00:06:03.819 what is important here. So, because what happens is if you say, 90 00:06:03.899 --> 00:06:06.899 well, yes on pro life, which many young people in the church world 91 00:06:06.899 --> 00:06:11.259 that are claimed to be Christian are, but then you have somebody like a 92 00:06:11.339 --> 00:06:13.579 friend says, well, why that? Why is that? Or they put 93 00:06:13.620 --> 00:06:15.660 up a scenario or they put a moral dilemma out there. Yeah, and 94 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:20.009 you find that they crack. Yeah, they'll give in because of the feelings. 95 00:06:20.129 --> 00:06:24.490 Well, you're right, I'm not a man, she's a woman. 96 00:06:24.769 --> 00:06:27.730 Right, it's her body, it's not my body. Yeah, but I 97 00:06:28.050 --> 00:06:30.089 wouldn't personally do it, but if she does that, I guess that's okay 98 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:32.519 for her and those kind of things. So we put them in those kind 99 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:36.160 of situations and we want to show them the ultimate standard is God. We 100 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:41.160 look at the life that is precious and valuable because as dignity, because they're 101 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:45.160 made an image of the Lord, and we know scientifically that life does begin 102 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:47.750 at conception. That is I goat, which is a cell. They have 103 00:06:48.110 --> 00:06:53.110 all of the genetic composition right that is needed right at that moment, yours, 104 00:06:53.110 --> 00:06:55.149 I got, I was as I got, all of us, every 105 00:06:55.189 --> 00:06:59.790 human being was. And if that's the case, it has that intrinsic value 106 00:06:59.829 --> 00:07:02.860 that is attached to it. Therefore, at any given time in abortion would 107 00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:06.980 be morally wrong because it's a human life that has value. And so when 108 00:07:06.980 --> 00:07:11.980 they when they start defending that and start understanding in a deeper way, and 109 00:07:12.019 --> 00:07:15.649 then you start teaching, teaching them through scripture where we see the significance of 110 00:07:15.730 --> 00:07:20.050 this, and then you apply it to the familial status between a man and 111 00:07:20.170 --> 00:07:26.329 a woman and what a family is and how husbands and wives and fathers and 112 00:07:26.410 --> 00:07:30.759 mothers provide care for these kids. It just now they have a more, 113 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.439 a greater appreciation, and then you put them in context their family. You 114 00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:38.480 and I are talking earlier, and I think it's also important, is how 115 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:42.560 do we not just take them on a philosophical, you know, track or 116 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:46.310 argument, but also now playing it experientially, personally, to say what happened 117 00:07:47.069 --> 00:07:51.269 if your mother and your father decided to abort you? Yeah, and you 118 00:07:51.350 --> 00:07:55.589 know, and sort of making a person yeah, to personalize and you and 119 00:07:55.629 --> 00:08:00.379 you see overwhelmingly that what we're seeing among millennials and Genz's, even outside the 120 00:08:00.459 --> 00:08:05.339 church, is that they are crediting this growth of prolifers among the young generation 121 00:08:05.740 --> 00:08:09.899 to the science discoveries that we have. Yeah, and the philosophical arguments. 122 00:08:11.180 --> 00:08:15.170 And I want to say one thing to your viewers and listeners that we cannot 123 00:08:15.170 --> 00:08:22.410 underestimate the value of scientific arguments and rational philosophical arguments to this young generation. 124 00:08:22.610 --> 00:08:24.970 We think that they don't care, that they're just a bunch of Gamers, 125 00:08:24.410 --> 00:08:28.680 they're lazy, that, you know, they're just subjective in their viewpoints. 126 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:31.360 Know, they want truth claims. Yeah, they want evidence. They want 127 00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:35.320 to have this type of discussion. That's why, in the podcast world, 128 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.470 the the the leading audience that downloads and listens and streams podcasts are millennials. 129 00:08:43.029 --> 00:08:46.110 They like this type of interaction, they like to hear arguments, they like 130 00:08:46.309 --> 00:08:50.669 to have debates. Now, I think some of that to learn respectfully how 131 00:08:50.789 --> 00:08:56.419 to have in through the art of persuasion, to have good dialog and how 132 00:08:56.500 --> 00:09:00.580 do you respectfully respond to someone who maybe opposes your position. Yeah, but 133 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:03.179 needless to say, because you know, we live in a world of tolerance. 134 00:09:03.460 --> 00:09:07.820 But needless to say, a lot of them want to have a deeper 135 00:09:07.860 --> 00:09:11.409 conversation. So they may come off and say their pro choice and then when 136 00:09:11.409 --> 00:09:13.809 you simply ask what what you need by pro choice, like when do you 137 00:09:13.889 --> 00:09:16.090 think it's right for a woman have an abortion? You think in every case 138 00:09:16.169 --> 00:09:20.769 and every circumstance, and just ask them questions. And when you find that 139 00:09:20.129 --> 00:09:24.320 people even outside the church and you're having these kind of conversations, we are. 140 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.799 We are seeing a massive change of mind and heart that is looking at 141 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.159 now the unborn as precious in the sight of God and saying man, if 142 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:37.000 that is truly human being, which based on the science and these philosophical arguments 143 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.750 and the ration now that comes with it. I need to be speaking up 144 00:09:41.830 --> 00:09:43.750 now for the useless. Yeah, and they want that. That's one of 145 00:09:43.789 --> 00:09:48.830 the things that at least you know, could be from my dislimited experience, 146 00:09:48.029 --> 00:09:52.549 but it's one of the things that I hear from even Christian you young people, 147 00:09:52.139 --> 00:09:54.659 you know, and thankfully man, it's sort of a rabbit trail a 148 00:09:54.659 --> 00:09:58.820 little bit, but within cities for life, you know, we've got just 149 00:09:58.980 --> 00:10:01.419 an influx of young people that are standing on the sidewalks. I mean before 150 00:10:01.460 --> 00:10:05.340 it was mostly like homeschool moms and retired foods, and we still have homeschool 151 00:10:05.379 --> 00:10:09.090 moms and retired folks. We appreciate all the volunteers that we have. We 152 00:10:09.289 --> 00:10:11.649 have a lot of younger people who are who are involved. But when I 153 00:10:11.809 --> 00:10:16.049 talk about, you know, the value of unborn life, I talked to 154 00:10:16.090 --> 00:10:20.610 abortion minded women or just people in general, one of the the main, 155 00:10:20.730 --> 00:10:24.080 I guess, arguments are ways to kind of shield themselves from from action. 156 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:26.679 Is the kind of judgment thing. Like, I don't want to be perceived 157 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:31.080 as being judgmental. I don't want to be judging. Yes, I believe 158 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.919 that abortion is wrong, and this is for mostly Christian youth, you know, 159 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:39.110 are Christian millennials. What I believe abortion is wrong but in my case, 160 00:10:39.509 --> 00:10:41.950 you know I wouldn't have an abortion, but you know, I wouldn't 161 00:10:41.950 --> 00:10:45.429 want to judge someone else for having an abortion. So how do you? 162 00:10:45.590 --> 00:10:48.470 How do you deal with that? Because it's it's it's easy to take de 163 00:10:48.509 --> 00:10:52.019 Bait on that right. Yeah, it is easy. And when it and 164 00:10:52.100 --> 00:10:54.700 then it depends on certain situations. I mean, first off, in that 165 00:10:54.779 --> 00:10:58.779 situation, where we remind a lot of students is that truth is, yes, 166 00:10:58.820 --> 00:11:03.419 subjective, but also it's objective. Subjective in the sense that you know, 167 00:11:03.539 --> 00:11:05.610 I like coffee, you don't. Okay that. The truth claim there 168 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:09.850 is that I do like it. That's true, and you don't. That's 169 00:11:09.929 --> 00:11:13.690 true. Now subjective and how you view coffee, and it's subjective how I 170 00:11:13.769 --> 00:11:16.649 view coffee, just like ice cream, vanilla, chocolate. So we had 171 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:20.519 understand that truth is subjected, to agree, but it's not just solely subjective, 172 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.080 you know, in your interpretation of it. So people make a sort 173 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:30.240 of claims all the time. So when it comes to young people, you 174 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:35.350 cannot say, well, I wouldn't do it because I think it's wrong, 175 00:11:35.990 --> 00:11:39.509 but it's okay for them to do it because it's their right to do it 176 00:11:39.750 --> 00:11:43.509 because they're their own person. So it's a personal preference to them. Now, 177 00:11:43.830 --> 00:11:48.659 when we deals with life issues here, that is no longer subjective. 178 00:11:48.659 --> 00:11:52.500 Yeah, that is getting about ice community exactly. This is not personal preference, 179 00:11:52.779 --> 00:11:56.460 right, because if I, because I mean, think about what you 180 00:11:56.539 --> 00:11:58.259 and I can do with that. That's the case of truth. In the 181 00:11:58.299 --> 00:12:03.210 end, is subjective. And so morals and values are judgment calls by the 182 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:07.409 person. Right, I'm the arbiter of how I live my life by my 183 00:12:07.529 --> 00:12:11.570 own standards, right, and so it's relative to me. So these relativistic 184 00:12:11.769 --> 00:12:16.600 norms, in societal norms, are going to be dictated by whoever has the 185 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:20.039 most power, whoever is the most persuasive or the most most charismatic or who 186 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:24.759 can persuade more people to do certain things. So murder and rape and human 187 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.120 trafficking, if I believe that that those are good things for us, right, 188 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.470 that's our standard, imagine the chaos that can result, you know, 189 00:12:31.669 --> 00:12:37.950 in our society. So we know, as human beings who are morally free 190 00:12:37.029 --> 00:12:43.269 agents to act upon good things or bad things, we know those things to 191 00:12:43.389 --> 00:12:46.860 be wrong. Yeah, so in the realm then, for young people in 192 00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:50.220 these discussions are Sam Kay, look, that's not just a personal preference. 193 00:12:50.899 --> 00:12:54.340 If in fact this is a human life and has value and dignity, it's 194 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:58.210 not associated based on what we think, because we don't judge personhood on certain 195 00:12:58.210 --> 00:13:03.289 properties that they either have or they lack, meaning if there's certain properties they 196 00:13:03.289 --> 00:13:05.889 lack, that means are less human, or there's certain properties they finally gain 197 00:13:07.090 --> 00:13:09.850 or attributed to them, then they're then they're more of a human right like. 198 00:13:11.009 --> 00:13:13.840 Those are not judgment calls that we make. So, in that sense, 199 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:16.360 when we lay out the claim that these things are now in the realms 200 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:20.120 of of objectivity, you can't just make assertive claims about it. These have 201 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:26.320 to be now truth claims, meaning it's either morally permissible for a woman have 202 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:28.590 an abortion because it doesn't matter, because it's not a human being, or 203 00:13:28.950 --> 00:13:33.070 she doesn't have, you know, the moral permissibility to have an abortion because 204 00:13:33.070 --> 00:13:37.110 this human being has more value than the value of choice. Right. So, 205 00:13:37.230 --> 00:13:41.309 as you start explaining these kind of things to a generation that has not 206 00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:48.659 had a lot of rhetoric, they've not been taught how logically and rationally to 207 00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:54.809 lay out an argument and to test and to evaluate it and to counter those 208 00:13:54.850 --> 00:13:58.929 type of arguments, then yes, then they just make these assertive claims. 209 00:14:00.049 --> 00:14:01.970 So when now, when you think, well, okay, it is a 210 00:14:03.009 --> 00:14:05.769 human life, what says when, now we're out of the realm of personal 211 00:14:05.809 --> 00:14:09.809 preference, we're now entering into objectivity, to where there is a standard that 212 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:13.600 transcends us. Yeah, and our responsibility then, as human beings, is 213 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:18.480 to protect life. If someone's being abused that we see publicly, or someone's 214 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:24.950 and harms way, what is our intuitiveness? What is our reactor, reaction 215 00:14:24.029 --> 00:14:26.669 or response to these things? is to help someone who is in need. 216 00:14:28.029 --> 00:14:31.590 We know that that's a God given the ability that we have as as, 217 00:14:31.669 --> 00:14:35.149 again, morally free agents, to respond, to care, to protect, 218 00:14:35.190 --> 00:14:39.019 to provide. And so if this unborn as a human being, then we 219 00:14:39.139 --> 00:14:41.299 are to respond to protect such a human being. Now, in the realm 220 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:43.179 of people, says yeah, but I don't want to interfere that kind of 221 00:14:43.179 --> 00:14:48.100 stuff, because who am I to judge all John Twenty four Jesus that we 222 00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:52.740 are to judge righteously. Yeah, not hypocritically. So the hippocrite, the 223 00:14:52.929 --> 00:14:56.490 hypocrisy actually in all this is to know that it's a life and to know 224 00:14:56.610 --> 00:15:00.889 that that life has value and dignnity. That is that is attached to it 225 00:15:01.809 --> 00:15:03.970 because they're made in the image of God and we know that scientifically and philosophically 226 00:15:05.250 --> 00:15:09.519 and morally speaking. So the hypocrisy there is to say that I love life 227 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:16.960 but I don't support prolifers who are there to stand in the gap for those 228 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.159 people who are choosing to have an abortion in in that life. That's hypocrisy. 229 00:15:20.509 --> 00:15:24.909 So that's actually judging someone and an unjust fashion. Yeah, that's an 230 00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:31.669 injustice. Judging rightly and righteously, is understanding that that value of that human 231 00:15:31.789 --> 00:15:35.860 life is greater than the value to have an abortion. Yeah, and so 232 00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:41.539 you're stepping in there now and you're laying claim to these things, not because 233 00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:48.779 you're trying to interfere and someone's right to do something. You're intervening because that 234 00:15:48.980 --> 00:15:54.370 human right does not trump that human life. Yeah, and when you start 235 00:15:54.450 --> 00:16:00.090 putting sometimes these young people in these situations, they these moral dilemmas that we 236 00:16:00.169 --> 00:16:03.519 oftentimes refer to, you start seeing the wheels turning where they're like man, 237 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:07.000 I never thought of it that way. Right. Yeah, so we say 238 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:11.840 like, are you for or against slavery? What? What is every young 239 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.200 person, every human being our right mind, obviously, will say is of 240 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:19.909 course slavery is wrong. Yeah, well, if you think slavery's wrong and 241 00:16:21.110 --> 00:16:25.549 you support the right of people like the abolitionists who stood against we think of 242 00:16:25.669 --> 00:16:30.070 one of the most famous, William Wilberforce, who was a Christian right and 243 00:16:30.190 --> 00:16:34.820 the legislator in the parliament. If you stand for these type of movements in 244 00:16:34.940 --> 00:16:38.179 the civil rights movements of people like Martin Luther King Jr, then why aren't 245 00:16:38.179 --> 00:16:42.019 you standing for the rights of the unborn, if they're human just like any 246 00:16:42.259 --> 00:16:47.210 black, Hispanic or Chinese person? Yeah, and when you start talking to 247 00:16:47.289 --> 00:16:49.169 them at this point you start seeing that it's not a matter of why. 248 00:16:49.169 --> 00:16:52.730 I don't have a right to judge them. We shouldn't judge them. We 249 00:16:52.809 --> 00:16:55.690 all got to be tallerant just let them do the kind of thing if we 250 00:16:55.809 --> 00:16:59.730 took that type of approach, Daniel, to other aspects of our life. 251 00:17:00.210 --> 00:17:03.279 If you see someone's house being invaded, in someone's they're robbing the is and 252 00:17:03.359 --> 00:17:07.160 what's not my house not my property. I don't want to try moves on 253 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.279 my problem. You know that person thinks what they're doing is right. Whom 254 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:12.519 I to say that's wrong? Right? Of course it isn't work. That 255 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:18.789 way. We don't believe in moral relativism, we believe in moral objectivity, 256 00:17:18.230 --> 00:17:22.069 and so when it comes to the life of the unborn, that as a 257 00:17:22.150 --> 00:17:26.069 moral objective claim that we are making, and we had, as humans have 258 00:17:26.390 --> 00:17:30.660 had, are are called by God to stand in the gap. And it's 259 00:17:30.740 --> 00:17:33.539 not a matter of taller prints. Matter of fact, it's a matter of 260 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:38.619 love. Yeah, and true love lays down its life for others. Yeah, 261 00:17:38.660 --> 00:17:41.460 and that's where we're hoping that young, more young people are seeing and 262 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:47.289 and actually I'm seeing in the church world, we're seeing a huge shift as 263 00:17:47.329 --> 00:17:49.410 we're talking about all these kind of things in a way that they've never heard 264 00:17:49.450 --> 00:17:55.329 before. They overwhelmingly respond and say, you're right, it's no longer about 265 00:17:55.529 --> 00:17:59.720 tolerance, it's about truth and love. Yeah, yeah, I knew three 266 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:03.480 kind of the we talked earlier about sort of, you know, I don't 267 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.200 know if we were talking about branding or like arguments and things that we use 268 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:10.599 as ministries that are sort of our own sort of thing, and within the 269 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:14.549 sidewall councling realm we sort of have something like that that we use in our 270 00:18:14.670 --> 00:18:18.670 trainings. Cheer with you my failproof pro life argument, but that's not what 271 00:18:18.829 --> 00:18:22.150 this is. This is sort of our three points. Yeah, and we 272 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:26.309 call this our three key points for sidewall counseling. And we start with God. 273 00:18:26.630 --> 00:18:29.579 What does God say about this? So what does God say about abortion? 274 00:18:29.619 --> 00:18:30.660 This is how we train our sidewalk counselors. If you want to know 275 00:18:30.740 --> 00:18:34.500 what to say, say things within this framework and you'll be just fine. 276 00:18:34.539 --> 00:18:37.220 We don't need to get into politics all this other stuff. Stay in this 277 00:18:37.299 --> 00:18:41.299 framework. So it's what God says about this. So what God says about 278 00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:44.569 abortion? What God says about the mother? He loves her, he has 279 00:18:44.650 --> 00:18:45.970 plans for her. What God says about the baby? He loves that baby 280 00:18:47.009 --> 00:18:48.210 and has plans for it. So what God says about it. So we 281 00:18:48.250 --> 00:18:52.930 start with the premise that there's a god. The humanity of the baby is 282 00:18:52.970 --> 00:18:55.529 our second point. So we might say, Mama, God loves you and 283 00:18:55.609 --> 00:18:57.440 loves your baby. Your baby's heart is already beating. And there we're talking 284 00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:02.279 about the humanity of the baby. And then the third point that we hit 285 00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:04.880 on his resources that are available to her. So, Mama, God loves 286 00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:07.440 you and loves your baby. Your baby's heart is already beating. We have 287 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:10.869 help available, we have a doctors that would see you free of charge. 288 00:19:10.869 --> 00:19:12.109 That's sort of what we would say and that fits within that. So sort 289 00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:17.309 of three points. Do you find that that those three points, we call 290 00:19:17.390 --> 00:19:22.349 it our three talking points, help out, or at least or what's involved 291 00:19:22.589 --> 00:19:26.779 in these conversations when you're talking to young people, are talking to anybody about 292 00:19:26.299 --> 00:19:30.619 the issue of abortion? Absolutely, yeah. Because, again, going back 293 00:19:30.619 --> 00:19:34.420 to the whole thing, is if they're self imposing their views or their opinions 294 00:19:34.539 --> 00:19:37.539 and not looking to God, well, that's a train wreck, yeah, 295 00:19:37.609 --> 00:19:41.730 waiting to happen. So it's not a matter of how I interpret or what 296 00:19:41.849 --> 00:19:45.130 my personal preference is, it's what, again, the ultimate standard, ie. 297 00:19:45.289 --> 00:19:48.890 God, is. Yeah, if this is what God says, that 298 00:19:48.970 --> 00:19:52.730 were made in his image, male and female, he made them. That's 299 00:19:52.769 --> 00:19:55.960 either true or that's false. Yeah. Now, most people, you, 300 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:59.519 and I know I speaking in terms in America. Yeah, they won't, 301 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.319 will not argue necessarily against their being a God. Now, obviously have a 302 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.799 lot of atheist friends and as an apologist I spend a lot of time dealing 303 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:10.869 with secularists and agnostics and atheists, you know, in skeptics, and I 304 00:20:10.990 --> 00:20:12.869 love them dearly and, in matter of fact, a lot of them are 305 00:20:12.910 --> 00:20:18.069 very respectful and very cordial and we're seeing a whole new generation of young atheist 306 00:20:18.150 --> 00:20:22.779 people who are throwing out questions and their intrigue and inquiring upon this and looking 307 00:20:22.819 --> 00:20:27.740 at that, and so there's there's a great housing of debate that is taking 308 00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:32.940 place there. But bringing the issue of God, like I've talked a lot 309 00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:36.049 of atheists who, again, they don't have an ultimate standard. They're the 310 00:20:36.130 --> 00:20:38.849 arbiter, right, yeah, you were society other self and there using yea. 311 00:20:38.930 --> 00:20:42.609 So their societal norms, where it's the culture that determines, and so 312 00:20:42.769 --> 00:20:47.170 they'll make the claims. And so they're still trying to hold, you know, 313 00:20:47.369 --> 00:20:51.200 to an objective truth. Obviously, like guys like Sam Harris, the 314 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:55.359 you know, the the well known famed atheist, he believes that there's, 315 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:59.279 you know, objective truth that exists, but it's not because there's a God 316 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:03.160 that exists. Yeah, but from the most part, most people who believe 317 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.150 that there's a god now what kind of God that is. That that's for 318 00:21:07.230 --> 00:21:11.309 a later discussion. But believe there's something that transcends us. That's a very 319 00:21:11.349 --> 00:21:14.670 effective thing. And yes, to your second point, when you're dealing with 320 00:21:14.710 --> 00:21:21.220 the humanity of that unborn child in the mother's womb. You're looking at an 321 00:21:21.339 --> 00:21:27.619 individual with its own unique composition, its own DNA, it's unique fingerprints, 322 00:21:29.019 --> 00:21:34.890 right, and the uniqueness of each person really brings the argument from a philosophical 323 00:21:36.049 --> 00:21:42.490 one that oftentimes could be out there in the realm of distance to now personalizing 324 00:21:44.289 --> 00:21:47.319 someone that you and I once were in our mother's well, yeah, so. 325 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:52.160 And then, yes, three, the resources effective because, as you 326 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:56.240 know, Daniel, a lot of people are there because they believe that's the 327 00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:03.950 only results or resort to abortion because they're they don't have the money or they're 328 00:22:03.990 --> 00:22:07.069 in a bad situation. So it could be for social reasons, it could 329 00:22:07.069 --> 00:22:11.430 be for economical reasons, could be for relational reasons, it could be for 330 00:22:11.509 --> 00:22:15.140 spiritual reasons, and they find themselves at an abortion clinic and if we share 331 00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:18.619 with the that there are, there are resources maybe that they haven't considered. 332 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.140 Yeah, where they've been doubting in their mind or out of fear, they 333 00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:26.619 resort to go to an abortion clinic, maybe not to have the abortion but 334 00:22:26.740 --> 00:22:30.369 to maybe figure out, okay, is this the next steps? When you 335 00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:33.490 provide them saying no, there are resources or things that we can do through 336 00:22:33.529 --> 00:22:37.410 cities for life and through other agencies. It does help, because you and 337 00:22:37.450 --> 00:22:40.930 I both have seen it, you know, our wives have seen that, 338 00:22:41.089 --> 00:22:42.690 and that would be very effective. So, yeah, that's those three talking 339 00:22:42.769 --> 00:22:48.599 points are very effective, specially when you're in the thick of it. Yeah, 340 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.599 now, do you think, though, those three talking points a sort 341 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:55.279 of fit into a framework when you're talking with someone, you know, away 342 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:57.079 from the you know, the battle zone, so to speak, away from 343 00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:00.990 the abortion clinic, but even like an in a university scenario, you find 344 00:23:02.509 --> 00:23:06.190 even bringing because I know there's some arguments out there that, you know, 345 00:23:06.269 --> 00:23:10.630 we shouldn't even bring God into the conversation, and of course we're leading with 346 00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:12.940 with God. Right. What's in those three points? Do you find that 347 00:23:14.019 --> 00:23:17.900 those three points would be good in that scenario, in the university scenario, 348 00:23:17.980 --> 00:23:21.940 when you're talking to, you know, college students and they're being brainwashed by 349 00:23:21.980 --> 00:23:25.500 their by the professors and and that kind of thing? Well, yeah, 350 00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:27.690 I see so. Again, like like anything, it's the setting rights, 351 00:23:27.769 --> 00:23:30.730 like you're saying, if you know, we're training people who want to be 352 00:23:30.769 --> 00:23:33.490 on the sidewalk, you know, and it's a ministry saying this is our 353 00:23:33.529 --> 00:23:38.089 approach and a lot of people that are pulling in, specially at that time, 354 00:23:38.490 --> 00:23:41.319 going into an abortion clinic. It's emotional. Yeah, we don't know 355 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.400 their background, but we know anybody who resorts to going to an abortion clinic, 356 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:49.000 we know there's a lot of emotional trauma there. There's a lot, 357 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:52.960 in some cases a lot of depression going on there. And so you want 358 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.269 to be the hands, a feed of Jesus, and so immediately recognizing God 359 00:23:56.430 --> 00:24:00.430 in this situation is always important. Now, when you take it to an 360 00:24:00.470 --> 00:24:03.390 academic setting, when people are out and about going to different classrooms, right, 361 00:24:03.470 --> 00:24:08.190 and we know predominantly the view on our on the university campus is a 362 00:24:08.309 --> 00:24:15.180 godless one. Yeah, and naturalism is the philosophical assumption here that bleeds in 363 00:24:15.299 --> 00:24:18.460 every subject matter. So that's going to be a little bit different. So 364 00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:22.779 my take, oftentimes, my approach, especially, and having been on the 365 00:24:22.819 --> 00:24:26.809 university camp as many times, dealing with people who are secularists who do not 366 00:24:26.890 --> 00:24:30.089 believe that there's a God. Now, obviously, if they do, then 367 00:24:30.089 --> 00:24:33.730 the argument will still be the same, sure, but what we want to 368 00:24:33.730 --> 00:24:37.089 do is we want to approach them first and forms on a philosophical one. 369 00:24:37.210 --> 00:24:41.319 was just will lead me to the realms of ethical issues and moral issues down 370 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:44.759 the road as I have this discussion. But first and foremost, I apply 371 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.079 the claim to them. Say humans have value simply because they're human. Now 372 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.039 I want to know whether or not they agree with that or not. So, 373 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:52.589 yes, I'm not starting with the Deity first. We're dealing with the 374 00:24:52.630 --> 00:24:57.390 humanity issue, okay, and we're dealing with value, the value of something, 375 00:24:57.950 --> 00:25:00.549 and I want to understand where they stand with that. And the other 376 00:25:00.670 --> 00:25:03.150 thing too, as I'm asking the question is, is whether or not they 377 00:25:03.190 --> 00:25:07.059 believe truth is relative or it's absolute, if there's a standard. Now I 378 00:25:07.099 --> 00:25:10.380 know the course there's a standard, because the moment which they're talking, they 379 00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:12.779 believe that their standard truth, because they're making truth claims or sort of claims. 380 00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:15.180 Yeah, it's either right or it's either wrong. It's either true or 381 00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:19.299 it's either false. So I want to establish some common ground with them in 382 00:25:19.420 --> 00:25:22.329 the academic world. Yeah, and if I have, let's say, less 383 00:25:22.329 --> 00:25:26.490 than five minutes with them, say hey, do you believe that humans have 384 00:25:26.529 --> 00:25:30.490 value simply because your human meaning are humans, you are unique creation other than 385 00:25:30.529 --> 00:25:34.609 anything else, and someone says humans have no greater value than animals, well 386 00:25:34.609 --> 00:25:37.480 then I have to take a different approach with them to understand what an unpack 387 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.640 that for me and see what they mean by that. Second now is a 388 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.839 scientific one, and of course we live in the scientific and inquiry that of 389 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:51.509 our society in the twenty one century, and that is science proves, based 390 00:25:51.549 --> 00:25:56.309 on the the the Science of embryology, that that life begins at the moment 391 00:25:56.390 --> 00:25:59.750 of conception, that when you have again that fertilizes over them, that Zygoat 392 00:26:00.150 --> 00:26:03.460 that you went it's and fuse with twenty three chromosomes from a female over them 393 00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:08.099 and twenty three chromosomes from the male sperm in a unite together you have a 394 00:26:08.180 --> 00:26:12.180 forty six chromosome human life and as a scientific fact, that is not Jason's 395 00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:17.299 opinion or Daniel's opinion or anyone's opinion based on the pro life perspective. We're 396 00:26:17.299 --> 00:26:21.569 not dealing with politics that I'm a libertarian, a conservative, Republican or whatever, 397 00:26:21.609 --> 00:26:25.730 or Democrat. I'm making a scientific claim and in the scientific world, 398 00:26:25.809 --> 00:26:30.329 specially in a realm of academia, right where most of them predominantly believe that 399 00:26:30.490 --> 00:26:34.519 evolution is a scientific fact, I'm using that as an argument to see where 400 00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:37.960 they stand with that. Because, remember, if they don't believe there's a 401 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:41.559 god, therefore they don't believe there's an being that has exhaustive knowledge. Therefore, 402 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:45.519 we're only limited in our space and time, this continuum, meaning we're 403 00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:51.150 close isolated system. We're just gaining ground, as science proves other things. 404 00:26:51.230 --> 00:26:55.230 And so, based on the scientific method, our censor experiences, is what 405 00:26:55.349 --> 00:26:57.150 we do, how we determine what is true and what is false. I'm 406 00:26:57.230 --> 00:27:00.349 using that to my advantage because, yes, I do believe, as even 407 00:27:00.390 --> 00:27:03.740 my atheist friends believe, that were rational human beings. Yeah, now, 408 00:27:03.819 --> 00:27:07.859 why do we attain rationality? That's your approach, if you're an atheist, 409 00:27:07.900 --> 00:27:11.180 is going to be different than mine as a theist. But the point is 410 00:27:11.339 --> 00:27:15.970 is that we're finding common ground on philosophical value, dignity and also the scientific 411 00:27:15.210 --> 00:27:18.809 evidence that we now have, overwhelming, based on the Science of embryology, 412 00:27:19.289 --> 00:27:22.490 that the unborn is indeed a human life. Now I want to throw that 413 00:27:22.609 --> 00:27:27.809 out there with at the to the university student to see how they respond, 414 00:27:27.970 --> 00:27:33.000 because also my conclusion is, if, if, if we all know that 415 00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:36.960 that we are more valuable than any other created being, like animal in the 416 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.519 Animal Kingdom. As human beings, we have diggingty, dignity and worth, 417 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.670 that we are a we're genetically composed human beings with a body, soul. 418 00:27:47.150 --> 00:27:51.150 Okay, and science proves that even from the moment of conception, that we 419 00:27:51.230 --> 00:27:55.670 are a whole human being developing in the womb, obviously, of not developing 420 00:27:55.710 --> 00:27:59.579 into a person. We're not a potential human, but we're human with great 421 00:27:59.579 --> 00:28:03.339 potential, made in the image of God. Therefore, my conclusion would be 422 00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:07.779 to them, if that's the case, if humans have value because we're human 423 00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:11.019 beings and science proves at the moment of conception that you're a human, your 424 00:28:11.019 --> 00:28:15.529 a whole human being, right, your distinct whole human being, all the 425 00:28:15.690 --> 00:28:19.809 genetic genetic compositions right there, from the start. Right. That means abortion 426 00:28:21.009 --> 00:28:23.690 is morally wrong then, yeah, and if something, if there are moral 427 00:28:23.730 --> 00:28:30.200 goods and moral evils and so many at the time, is saying that abortion 428 00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:37.119 is a moral good, they have to defend that argument and, based on 429 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:40.240 what I just share with you, Daniel, it's a very effective one. 430 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:45.670 We found common ground that that value is with among humans greater than any other 431 00:28:45.789 --> 00:28:51.190 created source. Yeah, right, or species and science. Again, they 432 00:28:51.269 --> 00:28:53.390 believe in science. We believe in science. That could be proven right, 433 00:28:53.990 --> 00:28:59.500 because we believe there's self evident truths. That's a strong army and outside what 434 00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:02.660 you believe personally. Right. Well, okay, I guess that I can 435 00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:04.539 see that point. But then now you have to wrestle with the conclusion. 436 00:29:04.619 --> 00:29:10.529 Then then you're okay. If it's morally wrong to take an innocent life, 437 00:29:10.529 --> 00:29:11.930 you're okay with that. Well, of course not. I wouldn't do that. 438 00:29:12.329 --> 00:29:15.650 But who am I say they can do that? Well, no, 439 00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:18.009 see, now you're in a trap because, just like we're saying earlier, 440 00:29:18.329 --> 00:29:22.410 if you put anybody in that situation, you see so many being harmed or 441 00:29:22.450 --> 00:29:27.640 being violated. We have an obligation as good citizens, as yea morally free 442 00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:33.960 agents, to protect people, especially people who can't protect themselves. Yeah, 443 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:38.230 that's why we believe in military we believe in law enforcement that doesn't force people 444 00:29:38.710 --> 00:29:45.589 to be good, but protect the good people from violent people. And that's 445 00:29:45.630 --> 00:29:49.269 exactly what we're setting the course on campus in this pro life discussion to have 446 00:29:49.630 --> 00:29:55.019 so people can see not an alternative but what is really true, and that 447 00:29:55.259 --> 00:30:00.220 is the unborn human. We make those claims philosophically and scientifically. So that 448 00:30:00.380 --> 00:30:03.900 is a compelling argument based on making the case or laying out the case for 449 00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:08.089 life on the university campus. Yeah, I know, I find you know, 450 00:30:08.170 --> 00:30:14.289 I have the wonderful opportunity to talk the pro choice atheist on a regular 451 00:30:14.329 --> 00:30:17.529 basis to the folks who in front of the abortion cliniccker out there to oppose 452 00:30:17.609 --> 00:30:19.410 our effort. Yeah, and a lot of these these folks are in the 453 00:30:19.450 --> 00:30:25.119 universities or just graduated from the university or whatever. And one of the things 454 00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:30.400 that I find is they don't really make the argument that it's not a life. 455 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:33.079 Some do, some will say it's not a life and you have to 456 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.630 define will define life for me, because a sperm, which is life, 457 00:30:36.950 --> 00:30:40.069 and egg, which is life, don't come together make nonlife. And so 458 00:30:40.190 --> 00:30:42.230 that's I made it. What they really mean and I think really what pro 459 00:30:42.349 --> 00:30:45.710 life is mean. When we say life begins at conception, we could actually 460 00:30:45.710 --> 00:30:52.099 say life is there before conception and reality is what we're saying is a unique 461 00:30:52.460 --> 00:30:56.579 life is formed at conception. But what I hear from our lot our pro 462 00:30:56.660 --> 00:31:00.740 choice and lot atheist people is, yes, it's life, but it's not 463 00:31:00.859 --> 00:31:03.259 a person. And so they're arguing sort of against personhood. Of course, 464 00:31:03.329 --> 00:31:07.970 the logical con question, the logical question with that is, okay, when 465 00:31:07.049 --> 00:31:11.329 does it become a person? And I've even had some say, you know 466 00:31:11.690 --> 00:31:15.410 science, science says that it's not a person. Well, science can't really 467 00:31:15.450 --> 00:31:19.200 due person. Who Do anyone like science? That's sort of a philosophical thing. 468 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:22.279 You agree with that as a yeah, there's that. It's in the 469 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:25.039 side. It's not only that, but it's a metaphysical and that's the problem. 470 00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:29.079 Is What happens often times. Is Good Point, Daniel, is they 471 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:33.750 have a bad philosophy that is induced into science, which makes now bad science. 472 00:31:33.789 --> 00:31:37.630 Yeah, and so those are philosophical claims that science and in of itself 473 00:31:38.309 --> 00:31:44.190 cannot test. Okay, for example, you can't test what actually is esthetic, 474 00:31:44.230 --> 00:31:48.900 yeah, or value or the moral duty that we have. You can't 475 00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:51.579 test that in a tube. Scientifically based, I was a saying earlier, 476 00:31:51.619 --> 00:31:53.619 based on the scientific method. So when they're in laying claim to that, 477 00:31:53.740 --> 00:31:57.539 they're trying to make a scientific argument, but what they're doing is are inserting 478 00:31:57.579 --> 00:32:01.569 a metaphysical claim in that about person and personhood. Yeah, that's not a 479 00:32:01.650 --> 00:32:07.849 scientific argument. And so now what actually is? They're digging themselves deeper because 480 00:32:07.849 --> 00:32:13.049 they're trying to be very explicit and what they mean to defend why they are 481 00:32:13.490 --> 00:32:15.480 for abortion. Yeah, because they do identify, like you said, based 482 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:21.039 on science, the moment of conception you have all the genetic composition that is 483 00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:24.920 needed for that human being to be you know, and nine months, you 484 00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:30.309 know, whatever it takes. You know some we know premature labors that are 485 00:32:30.430 --> 00:32:35.589 now in this world outside of the womb. And so what I oftentimes do 486 00:32:35.670 --> 00:32:39.230 in these situations to help the person who's trapped in this kind of thing saying 487 00:32:39.230 --> 00:32:43.190 well, okay, it is, it is a life, but as it's 488 00:32:43.269 --> 00:32:47.339 developing certain abilities and properties, it's becoming more of a person. Well, 489 00:32:47.420 --> 00:32:51.140 now they have to define what you mean by a person, right. Are 490 00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:53.940 Those two separate things? You can have a you can. Can you have 491 00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:58.890 life without being a person? And can you hit be a person without what 492 00:32:59.049 --> 00:33:00.450 type of life? Right, so now you have to define both. Now 493 00:33:00.529 --> 00:33:04.049 it's not just that what do you mean by person? It's like, okay, 494 00:33:04.369 --> 00:33:07.369 what is your definition of life then, and what is your definition a 495 00:33:07.569 --> 00:33:10.130 person? The thing scientifically, we can tell as again, as we just 496 00:33:10.289 --> 00:33:14.640 mentioned, the twenty three, you know, cells from the o them, 497 00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:15.960 from the female of them, and twenty three from the sperm of a male. 498 00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:22.839 Those ignited together, it literally is like a bang. Yeah, okay, 499 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:27.549 in the womb that is creating life. Now we as Christians, now 500 00:33:28.950 --> 00:33:34.269 believe that the composites of a human being our body soul. So to have 501 00:33:34.509 --> 00:33:37.789 life there's a soul. You can't have one without the others who are so 502 00:33:37.990 --> 00:33:42.740 connected within the body. Soul is a human being who is a person. 503 00:33:43.660 --> 00:33:47.259 Yeah, okay. Now a lot of people try to lay claim now psychologically 504 00:33:47.299 --> 00:33:53.140 or brain activity. Yeah, it's going. I think that's to Synthia's didn't 505 00:33:53.140 --> 00:33:55.970 have sentience, the Synthi, and that's an argument they try to make. 506 00:33:57.089 --> 00:34:00.089 Now, see, now, what they're doing is they're dumping the scientific evidence 507 00:34:00.450 --> 00:34:04.529 and they're trying to get in the realm of the philosophical yeah, and so 508 00:34:05.210 --> 00:34:08.250 the act to again stay consistent with life and personhood. So what I oftentimes 509 00:34:08.329 --> 00:34:10.719 like to do is say, let's pause for a moment and let's introduce a 510 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:16.719 baby in the situation. At what point would you say abortion is a viable 511 00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:22.880 option, even after birth, because we even have a newborn to even a 512 00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:27.230 toddler who's not able to walk yet. Yeah, right, is limited in 513 00:34:27.269 --> 00:34:30.110 their functionality. So the size, so I use shape. Yeah, as 514 00:34:30.150 --> 00:34:34.030 a way to walk them through this, and they don't know this. I'm 515 00:34:34.110 --> 00:34:37.869 just having this kind of conversation, trying to stay considered, helping them. 516 00:34:37.909 --> 00:34:40.900 If you will be consistent with life and personhood. The size. Does the 517 00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:45.380 size of the baby determine if it's more valuable than the size of the unborn 518 00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:50.699 baby in the womb? Right when you look at the habitation, does the 519 00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:54.210 birth canal now determine what becomes more of a personhood or less of a personhood? 520 00:34:54.530 --> 00:34:57.809 You know, that's still in the womber, outside though the womb. 521 00:34:58.130 --> 00:35:00.409 When you look at abilities and properties, as we were talking earlier, them 522 00:35:00.489 --> 00:35:07.400 developing certain abilities and capacity to move their hands or more brain activity of the 523 00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.880 or the heartbeat. You know, we see a lot of legislators or trying 524 00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.079 to banning abortion after there as there is brain activity or there's a heartbeat kind 525 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:19.079 of thing, after fourteen weeks or whatever, eight weeks, fourteen weeks, 526 00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:22.510 depends on what state you're in. But but just because they have they lack 527 00:35:22.670 --> 00:35:27.949 certain abilities and properties. Member the genetic composition is there, the code is 528 00:35:28.070 --> 00:35:31.510 there that's developing these type of abilities and properties, but that does not mean 529 00:35:31.590 --> 00:35:36.260 because they're limited in their abilities and properties that they're less human. Yeah, 530 00:35:36.260 --> 00:35:38.380 because the value has been there from the moment of conception, as you and 531 00:35:38.420 --> 00:35:42.860 I've been arguing as a prolifer. We happen to be Christian, right, 532 00:35:44.139 --> 00:35:49.179 but we can, we can defend life right outside of scripture, because it 533 00:35:49.260 --> 00:35:52.570 points back to the truth of what scripture is. And then the final thing 534 00:35:52.690 --> 00:35:57.170 is, and all these things, we look at the essentials. And then 535 00:35:57.409 --> 00:36:04.559 you just because a baby is at the time dependent on the mother for nutrients, 536 00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:08.360 oxygen and different things that are being supplied, does not mean it's less 537 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:12.480 of a human because as dependent on the mother to live. Yeah, even 538 00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:15.239 outside of the womb, you and I are limited and what we can and 539 00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:21.349 cannot do their times, where if you get injured and you can't walk and 540 00:36:21.510 --> 00:36:23.710 your your wife and kids have to support you and get you to the car 541 00:36:23.829 --> 00:36:28.070 and outside the car, does not mean that at that current state that you're 542 00:36:28.070 --> 00:36:30.670 not able to walk, your less of a human being. Right, we 543 00:36:30.750 --> 00:36:34.260 are depending and on certain essentials even as we live. Food, still, 544 00:36:34.659 --> 00:36:38.780 water, nutrients and oxygen, just like that, that fetus, that unborn 545 00:36:38.860 --> 00:36:44.059 baby in the and his or her mother's womb. So when you walk through 546 00:36:44.099 --> 00:36:47.849 the course of shape to look at the difference between an unborn baby and then, 547 00:36:47.889 --> 00:36:52.530 this case, a newborn baby or a toddler. You see that there 548 00:36:52.650 --> 00:36:55.889 is no difference between either one of them. That says that one is a 549 00:36:55.929 --> 00:36:59.690 human, one is not a human. They are both human. One is 550 00:36:59.769 --> 00:37:04.239 just developing memory. told you it's not a potential human. It's a human 551 00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.760 with great potential. Right. And so now you're saying is you're now trying 552 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:14.039 to have the personhood have more of these properties and these abilities to now make 553 00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:17.869 it a official human being. Right, here's a problem. They're making the 554 00:37:17.989 --> 00:37:22.190 case that they made inn one thousand eight hundred and fifty seven with Scott Versus 555 00:37:22.269 --> 00:37:27.750 Sanford, when our own Supreme Court member. This is from the Declaration of 556 00:37:27.829 --> 00:37:30.340 Independence, yeah, that there is a god, that there are self evident 557 00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:35.260 truths of these unailable rights that the king or anyone does not have a right 558 00:37:35.380 --> 00:37:39.500 to assurp or infringe upon because our God given yeah, this is the same 559 00:37:40.099 --> 00:37:45.250 country with the constitution that has lasted longer than any other constitution in the history 560 00:37:45.289 --> 00:37:47.650 of the world. The average is seventeen years. We're going on almost two 561 00:37:47.650 --> 00:37:52.090 hundred fifty years with our Constitution. That says that we have these bill of 562 00:37:52.130 --> 00:37:55.650 rights. We have these God given rights of reflecting the declaration of the pentage 563 00:37:55.690 --> 00:38:00.679 and explain and expounded upon as s self governance. Yeah, under the guise 564 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:06.559 of federalism. And in yet, in one thousand eight hundred and fifty seven, 565 00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.199 when we believe that all men are created equal, every human being, 566 00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:16.190 and yet the Supreme Court says black people are less human than white people. 567 00:38:16.190 --> 00:38:22.750 Yeah, and they pass legislation to continue to allow slavery to be legalized in 568 00:38:22.869 --> 00:38:25.949 our nation. That is that was morally wrong. Yeah. Right. So 569 00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:30.659 they're making the claim of making this distinction. And the same thing happen, 570 00:38:31.059 --> 00:38:34.619 as you and I know, in nineteen seventy three when it came to Rovy 571 00:38:34.659 --> 00:38:37.739 Wade. And the thing that we have to understand that most people do understand 572 00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:44.289 the backdrop behind prior to nineteen seventy three is, and using this doctor, 573 00:38:44.409 --> 00:38:47.969 Heckel, who came and he was doing antagony, Recapitlis philoginy is, he 574 00:38:49.130 --> 00:38:51.929 was saying that when you look at the in this is where the trimester started, 575 00:38:52.010 --> 00:38:58.159 come out to try to specify when, in fact that fetus becomes a 576 00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.039 human being. Yeah, to allow, because it was about abortion on demand, 577 00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:05.760 the rights of women based on the fourteen of minute. That's what they 578 00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:09.269 wanted to get past. So when you look back in Insan eighteen fifty seven, 579 00:39:09.269 --> 00:39:12.949 and you look in nineteen seventy three and you had a doctor, Heykol, 580 00:39:12.989 --> 00:39:19.190 who actually forged what he was telling our own Supreme Court what it actually 581 00:39:19.269 --> 00:39:21.590 is, that you're a boarding more or less as an animal. Yes, 582 00:39:21.670 --> 00:39:23.980 some sort that's evolving in the womb, in the was a form of evolution 583 00:39:24.099 --> 00:39:29.019 that's kind of place in the womb. Whom you saying you really want to 584 00:39:29.059 --> 00:39:30.980 go and and to make those same kind of similar argument that they made in 585 00:39:30.980 --> 00:39:34.900 one thousand eight hundred and fifty seven that said that blacks were less human than 586 00:39:34.980 --> 00:39:39.329 whites, and then and document and forging this documentation of saying what in actually 587 00:39:39.369 --> 00:39:43.010 is in the womb, because that's exactly what they're saying, is that you're 588 00:39:43.090 --> 00:39:45.010 looking at the mother's womb, you're looking at this life in the woman. 589 00:39:45.090 --> 00:39:47.530 You're saying, no, it's less of a human therefore, as a right 590 00:39:47.570 --> 00:39:51.849 to abort it because it's not what you think it is. When you say 591 00:39:52.210 --> 00:39:55.480 it's a human life, right, you're making those arguments that they made sense 592 00:39:55.599 --> 00:39:59.280 then and I don't think a lot of people and they really understand what they're 593 00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:00.440 argument. They want to go down there, they want to get them that 594 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:05.519 through. Oh yeah, it's good to depend folks down and saying, Hey, 595 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:07.670 you're making the same arguments that the Nazis made. Actual you making the 596 00:40:07.710 --> 00:40:12.590 same arguments that racist made, yeah, back in the eighteen fif not to 597 00:40:12.630 --> 00:40:15.590 say we're saying they're racist, sure, but so it's just like the bringers 598 00:40:15.590 --> 00:40:16.989 of the arm. Yeah, and that's what I think, Dan, is 599 00:40:16.989 --> 00:40:20.630 very important. I Know I love how you do this too, is we're 600 00:40:20.670 --> 00:40:23.059 not looking to prove people wrong. Okay, yeah, we want them to 601 00:40:23.099 --> 00:40:25.860 say, well, let me let me get this clear, and that's always 602 00:40:25.900 --> 00:40:29.539 a great way of it. Always tell people there's two ways, specially in 603 00:40:29.539 --> 00:40:34.659 the abortion realm clarity and charity. Be Clear and what you're saying and make 604 00:40:34.659 --> 00:40:37.409 sure you're being charitable and saying it like if he'Sians and fifteen says, speak 605 00:40:37.409 --> 00:40:40.130 the truth and love. Yeah, we can't do one without the other. 606 00:40:40.570 --> 00:40:44.090 So I'm not. You know, we don't jump to conclusions for them. 607 00:40:44.210 --> 00:40:45.690 So let me just be clear, or let me get this straight. What 608 00:40:45.809 --> 00:40:50.199 you're saying is and repeat it back to them. Yeah, you see, 609 00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:52.199 you know, it's interesting. If you're making this claim, we're making the 610 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:57.480 distincts between life and personhood. Do you realize that they did that in one 611 00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:00.039 thousand eight hundred and fifty seven, when they're still legalizing slavery or why they're 612 00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:04.869 defending their rights to have slaves? And then when the woman had a right 613 00:41:05.030 --> 00:41:08.989 abortion on demand, to board their baby any stage in the trimesters, and 614 00:41:09.070 --> 00:41:15.150 yet that we fent now know that that was not scientifically grounded on facts. 615 00:41:15.269 --> 00:41:17.150 Yeah, nor was it in eight hundred and fifty seven. You wouldn't support 616 00:41:17.150 --> 00:41:21.099 that. And if you know the evidence that we have now scientifically and how 617 00:41:21.179 --> 00:41:25.179 things were doctored and Hakel was not being he was not a legitimized doctor, 618 00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:30.219 but yeah, it was. These are things were presented falsely. What happens 619 00:41:30.260 --> 00:41:34.449 in any case if evidence was presented falsely or been tampered with, we throw 620 00:41:34.489 --> 00:41:37.329 it out. Yeah, so why would you then be taking those same type 621 00:41:37.369 --> 00:41:43.010 of approaches into this argument, claiming what you're saying is right? So those 622 00:41:43.050 --> 00:41:45.889 are as helpful ways to clarify the mess and sizes, because we know it's 623 00:41:45.929 --> 00:41:49.639 charged up. Yeah, sure, people are defense. I mean one of 624 00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:52.280 the things I think to me one of the barriers is, and I think 625 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:57.320 the barrier with with young people, with millennials is in Church folks to you 626 00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:00.510 know, is this politicized nature of the issue of abortion. I believe the 627 00:42:00.590 --> 00:42:06.429 enemy has successfully politicize an issue, that it's a life and death it's a 628 00:42:06.510 --> 00:42:10.150 human being made in the image of God issue. It's not a Republican Democrat 629 00:42:10.349 --> 00:42:15.179 issue. And yet people want to stay away from it because they don't want 630 00:42:15.179 --> 00:42:20.860 to be perceived as, you know, a Republican or a conservative or, 631 00:42:20.980 --> 00:42:23.940 you know, don't trump support or whatever. So they just don't mess with 632 00:42:23.940 --> 00:42:29.340 the issue of abortion. And I think when we yield that ground, we 633 00:42:29.420 --> 00:42:31.690 yield ground that we ought not right. This is we have this conviction up 634 00:42:31.690 --> 00:42:37.650 based on our political persuasion. I don't have any any illusion that the Republican 635 00:42:37.769 --> 00:42:40.289 Party is going to end abortion in our nation. You know, I don't 636 00:42:40.289 --> 00:42:45.119 think there's a lot of pro pro choice Republicans if you really ask them the 637 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:47.800 questions. But what do you mean? You find that there's a lot of 638 00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:52.239 political like hands off, don't want to touch that issue. We need to 639 00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:55.840 move on to more like feeding the hungry and that sort of stuff. I 640 00:42:55.880 --> 00:43:00.190 want to touch this abortion issue because it's politicized. You Fund that. But 641 00:43:00.309 --> 00:43:01.989 yeah, and I think it's a good distinction to and I have a lot 642 00:43:02.070 --> 00:43:06.190 of conversations with a lot of pastors around the country on this very topic, 643 00:43:06.230 --> 00:43:09.510 Daniel. And the thing is is you have to distinguish between legal and moral. 644 00:43:09.989 --> 00:43:14.099 So, for example, first and foremost this is about legislating morality. 645 00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:16.019 That's what politics, at the heart of it, is all about. That's 646 00:43:16.059 --> 00:43:20.380 a good thing. So, if you care about your taxes, if you 647 00:43:20.420 --> 00:43:22.739 care about the school system that your kids are in, if you care about 648 00:43:22.900 --> 00:43:30.250 having elected officials who are acting in accordance to laws above them, not that 649 00:43:30.329 --> 00:43:35.050 their lawmakers therefore there like gods and in themselves right, they can rule and 650 00:43:35.090 --> 00:43:38.250 rain, and that's that's eliteism, this dictatorship. If you care about what 651 00:43:38.449 --> 00:43:42.760 gambling does in our lives, if you care about cleaning up our streets, 652 00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:46.159 if you care about poverty, now, the government sold job is not to 653 00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:51.880 be the method in which we solve all of our problems. But if you 654 00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:53.960 care about education, if you care about taxes, if you care about business, 655 00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:57.429 if you care about economy, if you care about, you know, 656 00:43:57.469 --> 00:44:00.949 lighting up our streets, in the roadsides that we have both on a state 657 00:44:00.030 --> 00:44:05.230 and federal level. Then you do care about politics. Yeah, that politicizing 658 00:44:05.630 --> 00:44:09.380 as certain ideology, but you care about legislating what type of morality that we 659 00:44:09.579 --> 00:44:15.980 know is good and that and and distinguishing that which is evil, then it 660 00:44:15.059 --> 00:44:21.340 does matter. But first and foremost, I'm not pro life because I happen 661 00:44:21.380 --> 00:44:24.130 to vote Republican or or whatever the case may be. There's a lot of 662 00:44:24.210 --> 00:44:29.130 my friends who are Democrat who are pro life. So yes, it's not 663 00:44:29.210 --> 00:44:31.329 a bluer red issue, it's a moral issue. Yeah, and as a 664 00:44:31.449 --> 00:44:37.130 result of that, morally speaking, that is above any party line. We're 665 00:44:37.170 --> 00:44:42.079 not politicizing the baby, the unborn baby and any which way, just like 666 00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:45.159 we don't want to be politicizing human trafficking, yeah, or we don't be 667 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.760 politicizing poverty. We believe that, as we keep saying over and over and 668 00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:52.559 why? Because we're made in the image of God. Yeah, humans have 669 00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:54.469 value simply because they're human. They're made in the image of God, and 670 00:44:54.989 --> 00:44:59.269 it starts in the womb. Yes, supposed to be the safest place. 671 00:44:59.309 --> 00:45:04.030 I want you to wrap up here in just a second. This will sort 672 00:45:04.070 --> 00:45:07.110 of be the maybe the last, the last point that we touch on because 673 00:45:07.179 --> 00:45:09.019 you brought it up and I wanted to bring it up. Is this this 674 00:45:09.500 --> 00:45:15.460 idea that we are made in the image of God. To me that's like 675 00:45:16.059 --> 00:45:22.690 BIB weekly. That's the most important point. We're dealing with PROBABLIFE, we're 676 00:45:22.730 --> 00:45:27.090 dealing with and we're dealing with the value of unborn life. What does it 677 00:45:27.250 --> 00:45:30.969 mean on an apologetics level, some young person was to come to you and 678 00:45:30.050 --> 00:45:32.889 say, you know, I believe that abortion is wrong because we're made in 679 00:45:32.889 --> 00:45:35.719 the image of God, but I don't know how to define. One of 680 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.280 my friends at high schools asking me, what does it mean to be made 681 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:40.400 in the image of God? What do you mean by that? And I 682 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:45.079 really can't define. How would you help that young person to define what it 683 00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:46.519 would it means to be made in the Umage of God? Another that can 684 00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:51.389 be a sort of a big, big subject, but just in a few 685 00:45:51.429 --> 00:45:53.710 minutes. Well, first I want to just put a little cheap plug though, 686 00:45:53.829 --> 00:45:58.710 but the Benham's and I we did a thirty day devotion on you version. 687 00:45:58.949 --> 00:46:00.510 Okay, it's an I will stand strong and thirty day devotion. YEA, 688 00:46:00.630 --> 00:46:05.619 all that. Yeah, and the first ten days is loving God in 689 00:46:05.699 --> 00:46:07.579 his word and one of the first things we do in the first few days 690 00:46:07.699 --> 00:46:10.460 is what does it mean to be made in the image of God? It's 691 00:46:10.460 --> 00:46:15.500 about identity. Okay, our identity is found in a creator. We didn't 692 00:46:15.500 --> 00:46:19.250 just come here by accident. So the great thing is when people, and 693 00:46:19.489 --> 00:46:22.849 we love these conversations. You know, obviously, as you and I as 694 00:46:22.929 --> 00:46:25.650 father's, you know we look at our kids and you see similarity. Yeah, 695 00:46:25.769 --> 00:46:30.449 right, they they they act a certain way. You know my oldest 696 00:46:30.449 --> 00:46:31.730 son, we were just talking the other day. He's got the himen his 697 00:46:31.849 --> 00:46:36.320 nose right, and so he's cursed with a him in his days. And 698 00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:38.960 you know, it's so you see a lot of the similarities. You see 699 00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:45.159 my influence on my kids, hopefully for good, right, bad, but 700 00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:49.510 it's a beautiful thing. But the the but even more amazingly, is to 701 00:46:49.630 --> 00:46:52.510 know that you and I have been placed here on earth, that we have 702 00:46:52.670 --> 00:46:57.630 a creator, an uncaused first cause and eternal being, a supreme being that's 703 00:46:57.670 --> 00:47:04.019 not contingent on anything that transcends space time in the continuum. That is imminent, 704 00:47:04.099 --> 00:47:08.219 though, in creation. And so here the Godhead and perfect unity, 705 00:47:08.380 --> 00:47:15.340 father son, Holy Spirit, creates. Yeah, and he designs it's not. 706 00:47:15.579 --> 00:47:19.889 And when people say God put effort in making us know, God doesn't 707 00:47:19.889 --> 00:47:22.969 make effort in anything. God speaks and it's done. Yeah, and he 708 00:47:22.010 --> 00:47:28.489 does it perfectly without mistakes. So in his exhaustive knowledge he creates us and 709 00:47:28.570 --> 00:47:31.679 his image, meaning God is spirit, were told in scripture. Okay, 710 00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:37.880 so he is eternal in his being and he is infinite, boundless. There's 711 00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:40.639 nothing that he lacks. He doesn't improve in his quality. But in making 712 00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:45.150 man, he made us with emotion, as God has emotion. Okay, 713 00:47:45.190 --> 00:47:47.989 being made in the image of God is saying that we have intelligence, as 714 00:47:49.030 --> 00:47:52.869 he's intelligent, that we have love, as he is love. Right, 715 00:47:52.550 --> 00:47:55.550 that's being made an image of God. He gives us a soul, because 716 00:47:55.550 --> 00:48:00.539 we both have a material aspect and an immaterial aspect. God does not have 717 00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:05.739 any materialistic aspect to him. He's a simple being, meaning he's not compartmentalized. 718 00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:09.739 Right, he doesn't add and subtract, right from his being. We're 719 00:48:09.820 --> 00:48:14.289 told that he's draped in a garment of light. In First John Five were 720 00:48:14.329 --> 00:48:19.570 told that that God cannot lie or make mistakes. According to Hebrews, six 721 00:48:19.610 --> 00:48:22.329 hundred and eighteen were told in James, Chapter One, or twenty seven, 722 00:48:22.369 --> 00:48:25.289 that there's no sadd or variation of tourney, meaning you can't angle God. 723 00:48:25.489 --> 00:48:31.239 Yeah, it dimensionally, Okay's boundless. He's eternal in his existence, but 724 00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:37.719 he creates us in his image, meaning we reflect who he is in our 725 00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:43.030 being. As we live and as we breathe, we're reflecting who God is, 726 00:48:43.150 --> 00:48:45.670 as we love, as we forgive, or reflecting who God is. 727 00:48:45.869 --> 00:48:52.190 Yeah, and hopefully on this side of heaven, as we live faithfully for 728 00:48:52.269 --> 00:48:54.070 him. We know Christ as our Lord and Savior. I mean the Romans 729 00:48:54.150 --> 00:48:57.900 ten nine. In ten says if you confess with your mouth that Jesus Lord, 730 00:48:57.940 --> 00:48:59.699 you believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you 731 00:48:59.739 --> 00:49:01.340 shall be saved, and all who call upon him have the right to become 732 00:49:01.340 --> 00:49:06.179 a child of God. According to John One hundred twelve, we recognize now 733 00:49:06.380 --> 00:49:08.139 in a fallen state, because Adam and Eve sinned and they fell short of 734 00:49:08.179 --> 00:49:13.929 God and they were they experience three deaths, spiritual, eternal and physical death. 735 00:49:14.369 --> 00:49:16.010 And based on what we see in creation, according to Romans Eight, 736 00:49:16.210 --> 00:49:21.409 we're crumbling, things are decaying and they're crying out to be renewed and restored. 737 00:49:22.130 --> 00:49:27.440 So even though the image of God has been effaced in us because of 738 00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:31.920 the fall of Adam. It's not completely erase because the still the goodness of 739 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:37.519 God, love, right, hope, forgiveness is still in us and to 740 00:49:37.750 --> 00:49:42.670 love others as God has loved us is still reflected in us. So on 741 00:49:42.829 --> 00:49:45.349 this side of Heaven, if we accept Christ, we have eternal life with 742 00:49:45.469 --> 00:49:49.429 him, and that's the fulfillment of the purpose that God has given us, 743 00:49:49.630 --> 00:49:52.940 to make his name known and to glorify him, and all things according in 744 00:49:52.980 --> 00:49:55.179 for screens thirty one. So saying that we're made an image of God is 745 00:49:55.179 --> 00:50:00.460 saying we have a creator who loves us and we reflect that love to him 746 00:50:00.460 --> 00:50:04.900 and through his ability to love others around us. So it's not just a 747 00:50:05.739 --> 00:50:08.570 mechanistic thing to say he's our creator, like we're a robot. Right, 748 00:50:08.849 --> 00:50:13.730 he created us in his image freely. Therefore we have free will, which 749 00:50:13.769 --> 00:50:16.730 is a perfect gift we you know, force love is a contradiction, right, 750 00:50:16.889 --> 00:50:21.250 right. So when we say that we can freely choose right or wrong, 751 00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:24.840 God gave us that ability, just like in marriage, that you freely 752 00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:29.119 love each other, you freely submit one to another. That is true love, 753 00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:30.760 and where there's true love is true freedom and there's true feeding, there's 754 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:35.079 true love. So being made an image of God, we are expressing that 755 00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:39.150 freely when we make choices. So that's bearing witness that there is a deity 756 00:50:39.710 --> 00:50:45.949 that transcends us, rather than just saying the alternative would either be we've always 757 00:50:45.949 --> 00:50:50.539 existed, which we know as false, or we came about randomly through revolutionary 758 00:50:50.579 --> 00:50:53.539 means. Yeah, therefore, we bear no image of anything outside the realm 759 00:50:53.579 --> 00:50:58.780 of the natural causes. Therefore, there is true really then, no purpose 760 00:50:58.780 --> 00:51:01.139 or no meaning. But me made an image of God. There is purpose 761 00:51:01.300 --> 00:51:06.489 and there is meaning, because a god who has purpose, who has meaning, 762 00:51:06.570 --> 00:51:09.969 meaning the fulfillment of it perfectly has put that in each one of us. 763 00:51:10.010 --> 00:51:14.489 Yeah, and that's why, when we say we're unique, that's that's 764 00:51:14.489 --> 00:51:16.570 what that needs. We're all unique like everyone else. You're very unique day. 765 00:51:17.090 --> 00:51:21.599 Thank you, but we appreciate all those who joined us for this podcast. 766 00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:23.840 If you want to connect with Jason, is that stand strong DOT ors. 767 00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:28.440 Don't stand strong ministries dot ORG, stand strong miniature ministries dot Org. 768 00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:30.880 You can contact him through there. Your email address is there, at least 769 00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:35.030 a contact form is there. And then you had a you have you in 770 00:51:35.030 --> 00:51:37.630 the Badams to put together. The A thirty day devotional. Yeah, and 771 00:51:37.710 --> 00:51:39.389 you version. Okay, everybody has you version. So if you have you 772 00:51:39.550 --> 00:51:44.030 version and encourage people to check out that plan. It's a thirty day. 773 00:51:44.150 --> 00:51:46.739 First ten days love God, love his words. Second ten days is live 774 00:51:46.820 --> 00:51:50.980 in community, okay. In the final ten days is lead as a voice 775 00:51:50.980 --> 00:51:53.139 of truth. So it's a way to help Christian stand strong wherever they're at. 776 00:51:53.179 --> 00:51:55.940 Yeah, and you've got some stuff you mentioned. Maybe I shouldn't mention 777 00:51:57.059 --> 00:51:59.780 this, but I will. Coming out with love life is a partner ministry 778 00:52:00.380 --> 00:52:02.530 with pro life apologetics and stuff like that. That's coming out in the yeah, 779 00:52:02.530 --> 00:52:06.130 that's gonna be coming to actually this fall, two thousand and nineteen. 780 00:52:06.210 --> 00:52:09.849 So if people want to have a pro life course that they can go in 781 00:52:10.210 --> 00:52:14.849 within like a less than an hour, we have a downloadable, steady guide. 782 00:52:14.849 --> 00:52:17.320 I lay out the case for life and I give tactics and ways that 783 00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:22.039 you can interact with an abortion advocate. One strengthen your particular beliefs as a 784 00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:28.559 prolifer, but also engage in the and these conversations with other, you know, 785 00:52:28.679 --> 00:52:31.550 people that, in this case, are supportive of abortion, but how 786 00:52:31.630 --> 00:52:37.309 you can tackle and respectfully respond to their arguments in a way that quiosity, 787 00:52:37.309 --> 00:52:40.590 Daniel, is very effective and you're seeing that the more people that eat get 788 00:52:40.670 --> 00:52:45.139 equipped in our pro life apologetics and they go out there and they use it, 789 00:52:45.659 --> 00:52:47.900 they're winning people over. Yeah, that's good because in the end we're 790 00:52:47.940 --> 00:52:52.179 saving lives in the process, right, and we're sharing the Gospel for all 791 00:52:52.219 --> 00:52:54.900 eternity. Yeah, yeah, so connect with him. Stand strong ministries dot 792 00:52:54.980 --> 00:52:59.250 Org. You can connect with me, CHARLOTTE DOT cities for Life Dot Org. 793 00:53:00.050 --> 00:53:04.650 Email addresses there in the contact form. And also we have a website 794 00:53:04.690 --> 00:53:07.849 that I mentioned very often, which is sidewalks for lifecom. Sidewalks, the 795 00:53:07.889 --> 00:53:13.159 number four and lifecom, which really speaks to the sidewalk counseling. It's the 796 00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:16.559 train and quip and encourage. We put articles out almost a weekly basis. 797 00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:21.239 Me Or Vicky, he's normally here on the podcast, writes an article about 798 00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:23.920 pro life outreach at a local abortion clinic, and so connect with us. 799 00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:28.829 They're at least check out resources that are there. We appreciate all those who 800 00:53:29.110 --> 00:53:37.949 who came and joined us for this podcast. Use Milan, use give me. 801 00:53:52.820 --> 00:54:00.010 It will cost me my life, but nothing's too precious. Inside