Reaching Younger Generations With a Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Message

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.799I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, and me,200:00:06.160 --> 00:00:11.029Lord, I am yours. Welcometo the Gospel Center pro life podcast and300:00:11.109 --> 00:00:14.789this episode we're going to talk withJason Heimnez, with stand strong ministries,400:00:15.109 --> 00:00:19.230about how to reach youth and evenmillennials with the pro life message. Stay500:00:19.309 --> 00:00:35.500tuned. I felt show passis touchyour welcome to the Gospel Center pro life600:00:35.539 --> 00:00:39.969podcast. We have with us todayJason Himenez. Jason Amnez, is the700:00:40.170 --> 00:00:43.770president or founder of stand strong ministries. You can say both. Yes,800:00:43.929 --> 00:00:46.890president and found. All right.So so, Jason, just share real900:00:46.929 --> 00:00:51.280quick what your role is, whatyou do in stand strong and kind of1000:00:51.320 --> 00:00:54.479what you guys focus is. Well, first day, I appreciate having on1100:00:54.560 --> 00:00:58.439the podcast and just the work thatyou guys are doing and the need for1200:00:58.679 --> 00:01:02.840something like this, not just outthere on the sidewalks but also hitting people1300:01:02.840 --> 00:01:06.349on the podcast world. Yeah,on the message of pro life. But1400:01:06.510 --> 00:01:10.590for me is my background is apastor. God called me the ministry I1500:01:10.670 --> 00:01:12.629was eighteen, and so fast forwardall these years later, being forty now,1600:01:14.390 --> 00:01:18.030just loving people through God's word,spreading the Gospel, doing that in1700:01:18.109 --> 00:01:22.739written form, your writing books andspeaking at audiences from young people to older1800:01:22.819 --> 00:01:26.980people, to engaging the next generationof pastors and leaders around the country.1900:01:26.659 --> 00:01:30.260So I've been blessed to be ableto do that and also contributing in areas2000:01:30.299 --> 00:01:34.769like this, doing a lot ofinterviews and trying to train up the Christian2100:01:34.969 --> 00:01:38.930to stand strong in their faith accordingto first creating, sixteen thirteen. Yeah,2200:01:38.010 --> 00:01:42.969so as a pastor apologist, that'smy college to help equip people the2300:01:42.010 --> 00:01:46.129Biblical worldview. Yeah, okay,yeah, and so we're going to talk2400:01:46.129 --> 00:01:47.879about it. You know, Idon't want to limit it. I mentioned2500:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.239before we started the podcast I wantedto talk about sort of the youth and2600:01:51.359 --> 00:01:56.719how how to get youth to embracea prolife framework, really a biblical framework,2700:01:56.840 --> 00:01:57.920but I don't want to limit itto that. So don't don't stay2800:01:59.000 --> 00:02:01.310limited if it goes far and abovethat. We certainly talked about that.2900:02:02.109 --> 00:02:07.310But you're involved in some conferences.You say, you teach that summit some3000:02:07.510 --> 00:02:10.830which is focuses on youth or peopletwenty five and Yees sixteen twenty five.3100:02:10.830 --> 00:02:15.939Yeah, and you're there and you'redoing apologetics and you're talking about sort of3200:02:15.979 --> 00:02:19.340arguments for the existence of God andthat sort of thing. But also there's3300:02:19.340 --> 00:02:24.259some necessarily some prolife apologetics that comeup in that particular scenario and other scenarios3400:02:24.300 --> 00:02:30.449that you do. What do youfind that youth within the Church or overwhelmingly3500:02:30.530 --> 00:02:34.409prolife, or is it sort ofa mixed bag? You know what they3600:02:34.449 --> 00:02:37.610say when you ask them that theirpro life, they might all say yes,3700:02:37.729 --> 00:02:40.210but when you ask the deeper questions, you really got a got a3800:02:40.250 --> 00:02:44.169read for the fact that they areactually life. Well, it's a good3900:02:44.169 --> 00:02:47.120question and you're right. I thinkit's one of those generational gaps, if4000:02:47.159 --> 00:02:50.719you will, when it comes toan issue, particularly if you're an older4100:02:50.840 --> 00:02:53.639person, you know, probably beingsomebody in their s up and you're asking4200:02:53.680 --> 00:02:59.189a younger person in the church worldif their pro life. The older generation4300:02:59.509 --> 00:03:01.469has a particular take on what itmeans to be pro life, right,4400:03:01.509 --> 00:03:05.750and the younger people have a particulartake on what it means to be pro4500:03:05.909 --> 00:03:08.509life. And one of the thingsthat we found even in we even church4600:03:08.629 --> 00:03:12.509going young people. You know,we're talking millennials born after you know,4700:03:12.669 --> 00:03:15.699one thousand nine hundred and eighty four, and then the Jins Z generation starting4800:03:15.740 --> 00:03:21.219after you know and eleven, youknow, September one you ask them what4900:03:21.340 --> 00:03:23.460it means to be pro life,and there have in the scientific world today,5000:03:23.500 --> 00:03:25.620they'll think, well, it dependson what you mean by the life.5100:03:25.699 --> 00:03:29.930At well stage are you referring to? And so, of course,5200:03:30.090 --> 00:03:32.689as a prolifer, we believe alllife is precious because we're all made in5300:03:32.729 --> 00:03:36.330the image of God, according toGenesis One hundred and twenty seven and other5400:03:36.370 --> 00:03:39.090passages. So in one sense,when you do ask the question, we5500:03:39.169 --> 00:03:43.039have to make sure that we clarifywhat we mean by being pro life.5600:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.719Will specifically saying what do you belove? Where do you stand when it comes5700:03:46.759 --> 00:03:51.520to the to the unborn or todefeatus right in the womb? Yeah,5800:03:51.800 --> 00:03:55.110and seeing what a lot of youngpeople say now in the church world's predominantly5900:03:55.150 --> 00:04:01.310yes, they will say, Ibelieve that the the unborn is human from6000:04:01.349 --> 00:04:05.669the moment of conception. Yeah,now, can they argue that scientifically and6100:04:05.750 --> 00:04:12.259philosophically and Biblically? That is nowanother area that you enter into to to6200:04:12.620 --> 00:04:15.939not only define those terms but alsoto defend what it means to be pro6300:04:16.139 --> 00:04:19.620life. Yeah, so it's almostlike with some of the from what I6400:04:19.779 --> 00:04:24.329gather, what I hear you saying, it's almost like they've sort of just6500:04:24.490 --> 00:04:29.050by default embrace the convictions of theirparents or people that are older than them6600:04:29.089 --> 00:04:32.170and haven't really really thought it throughvery much right. And so if they6700:04:32.170 --> 00:04:36.050were to give an apologetic for whilethey believe that life begins a conception,6800:04:36.089 --> 00:04:39.959unborn lives are precious and that sortof thing you're saying, they would sort6900:04:39.959 --> 00:04:42.240of miss the mark. They missthe mark. And so the great thing7000:04:42.319 --> 00:04:46.360is at like summit ministries and peoplecan go to summon dot org to check7100:04:46.360 --> 00:04:49.079out the ministry there. This hasbeen going on since the S and it's7200:04:49.120 --> 00:04:54.750a Christian organization where we train peoplefrom all over the country, even people7300:04:54.790 --> 00:04:58.389from all parts of the world comeand they come to one of our twelve7400:04:58.430 --> 00:05:03.389day sessions and in one of thosesessions they're going to get a full day7500:05:03.829 --> 00:05:08.459on pro life apologetics. Okay.And what we found, and this is7600:05:08.579 --> 00:05:13.620this actually good data, Daniel,because you have different denominations. Sixteen to7700:05:13.740 --> 00:05:16.100twenty five year old's right. Soyou got the college and the high schoolers7800:05:16.139 --> 00:05:19.500coming together. Yeah, predominately fromjunior, you know, in high school,7900:05:19.779 --> 00:05:25.209to a senior in college. Someof them come they've already graduated college,8000:05:26.050 --> 00:05:29.850some of them go to summit.They come to learn from different instructors8100:05:29.889 --> 00:05:32.810like myself, so they could bebetter equipped to go wherever it is,8200:05:33.050 --> 00:05:36.279and primarily in the university. Yeah, setting because they're getting the secularism,8300:05:36.279 --> 00:05:41.439they're getting attacked by evolution cuss up. But what you finding, the why8400:05:41.519 --> 00:05:43.879this is so good, Dad,is because a lot of our church goers,8500:05:44.000 --> 00:05:47.399they're representing different denominations, but theywill tell you more often than not,8600:05:47.439 --> 00:05:51.189yes, I came in being prolife, but now I know why.8700:05:51.829 --> 00:05:57.269You're right. I'm pro life scientifically, philosophically, biblically, theologically and8800:05:57.389 --> 00:06:00.230in the culture. And that's andthat's what we love to do and that's8900:06:00.310 --> 00:06:03.819what is important here. So,because what happens is if you say,9000:06:03.899 --> 00:06:06.899well, yes on pro life,which many young people in the church world9100:06:06.899 --> 00:06:11.259that are claimed to be Christian are, but then you have somebody like a9200:06:11.339 --> 00:06:13.579friend says, well, why that? Why is that? Or they put9300:06:13.620 --> 00:06:15.660up a scenario or they put amoral dilemma out there. Yeah, and9400:06:15.779 --> 00:06:20.009you find that they crack. Yeah, they'll give in because of the feelings.9500:06:20.129 --> 00:06:24.490Well, you're right, I'm nota man, she's a woman.9600:06:24.769 --> 00:06:27.730Right, it's her body, it'snot my body. Yeah, but I9700:06:28.050 --> 00:06:30.089wouldn't personally do it, but ifshe does that, I guess that's okay9800:06:30.170 --> 00:06:32.519for her and those kind of things. So we put them in those kind9900:06:32.519 --> 00:06:36.160of situations and we want to showthem the ultimate standard is God. We10000:06:36.279 --> 00:06:41.160look at the life that is preciousand valuable because as dignity, because they're10100:06:41.160 --> 00:06:45.160made an image of the Lord,and we know scientifically that life does begin10200:06:45.199 --> 00:06:47.750at conception. That is I goat, which is a cell. They have10300:06:48.110 --> 00:06:53.110all of the genetic composition right thatis needed right at that moment, yours,10400:06:53.110 --> 00:06:55.149I got, I was as Igot, all of us, every10500:06:55.189 --> 00:06:59.790human being was. And if that'sthe case, it has that intrinsic value10600:06:59.829 --> 00:07:02.860that is attached to it. Therefore, at any given time in abortion would10700:07:02.860 --> 00:07:06.980be morally wrong because it's a humanlife that has value. And so when10800:07:06.980 --> 00:07:11.980they when they start defending that andstart understanding in a deeper way, and10900:07:12.019 --> 00:07:15.649then you start teaching, teaching themthrough scripture where we see the significance of11000:07:15.730 --> 00:07:20.050this, and then you apply itto the familial status between a man and11100:07:20.170 --> 00:07:26.329a woman and what a family isand how husbands and wives and fathers and11200:07:26.410 --> 00:07:30.759mothers provide care for these kids.It just now they have a more,11300:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.439a greater appreciation, and then youput them in context their family. You11400:07:34.519 --> 00:07:38.480and I are talking earlier, andI think it's also important, is how11500:07:38.519 --> 00:07:42.560do we not just take them ona philosophical, you know, track or11600:07:42.639 --> 00:07:46.310argument, but also now playing itexperientially, personally, to say what happened11700:07:47.069 --> 00:07:51.269if your mother and your father decidedto abort you? Yeah, and you11800:07:51.350 --> 00:07:55.589know, and sort of making aperson yeah, to personalize and you and11900:07:55.629 --> 00:08:00.379you see overwhelmingly that what we're seeingamong millennials and Genz's, even outside the12000:08:00.459 --> 00:08:05.339church, is that they are creditingthis growth of prolifers among the young generation12100:08:05.740 --> 00:08:09.899to the science discoveries that we have. Yeah, and the philosophical arguments.12200:08:11.180 --> 00:08:15.170And I want to say one thingto your viewers and listeners that we cannot12300:08:15.170 --> 00:08:22.410underestimate the value of scientific arguments andrational philosophical arguments to this young generation.12400:08:22.610 --> 00:08:24.970We think that they don't care,that they're just a bunch of Gamers,12500:08:24.410 --> 00:08:28.680they're lazy, that, you know, they're just subjective in their viewpoints.12600:08:28.800 --> 00:08:31.360Know, they want truth claims.Yeah, they want evidence. They want12700:08:31.440 --> 00:08:35.320to have this type of discussion.That's why, in the podcast world,12800:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.470the the the leading audience that downloadsand listens and streams podcasts are millennials.12900:08:43.029 --> 00:08:46.110They like this type of interaction,they like to hear arguments, they like13000:08:46.309 --> 00:08:50.669to have debates. Now, Ithink some of that to learn respectfully how13100:08:50.789 --> 00:08:56.419to have in through the art ofpersuasion, to have good dialog and how13200:08:56.500 --> 00:09:00.580do you respectfully respond to someone whomaybe opposes your position. Yeah, but13300:09:00.700 --> 00:09:03.179needless to say, because you know, we live in a world of tolerance.13400:09:03.460 --> 00:09:07.820But needless to say, a lotof them want to have a deeper13500:09:07.860 --> 00:09:11.409conversation. So they may come offand say their pro choice and then when13600:09:11.409 --> 00:09:13.809you simply ask what what you needby pro choice, like when do you13700:09:13.889 --> 00:09:16.090think it's right for a woman havean abortion? You think in every case13800:09:16.169 --> 00:09:20.769and every circumstance, and just askthem questions. And when you find that13900:09:20.129 --> 00:09:24.320people even outside the church and you'rehaving these kind of conversations, we are.14000:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.799We are seeing a massive change ofmind and heart that is looking at14100:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.159now the unborn as precious in thesight of God and saying man, if14200:09:33.279 --> 00:09:37.000that is truly human being, whichbased on the science and these philosophical arguments14300:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.750and the ration now that comes withit. I need to be speaking up14400:09:41.830 --> 00:09:43.750now for the useless. Yeah,and they want that. That's one of14500:09:43.789 --> 00:09:48.830the things that at least you know, could be from my dislimited experience,14600:09:48.029 --> 00:09:52.549but it's one of the things thatI hear from even Christian you young people,14700:09:52.139 --> 00:09:54.659you know, and thankfully man,it's sort of a rabbit trail a14800:09:54.659 --> 00:09:58.820little bit, but within cities forlife, you know, we've got just14900:09:58.980 --> 00:10:01.419an influx of young people that arestanding on the sidewalks. I mean before15000:10:01.460 --> 00:10:05.340it was mostly like homeschool moms andretired foods, and we still have homeschool15100:10:05.379 --> 00:10:09.090moms and retired folks. We appreciateall the volunteers that we have. We15200:10:09.289 --> 00:10:11.649have a lot of younger people whoare who are involved. But when I15300:10:11.809 --> 00:10:16.049talk about, you know, thevalue of unborn life, I talked to15400:10:16.090 --> 00:10:20.610abortion minded women or just people ingeneral, one of the the main,15500:10:20.730 --> 00:10:24.080I guess, arguments are ways tokind of shield themselves from from action.15600:10:24.799 --> 00:10:26.679Is the kind of judgment thing.Like, I don't want to be perceived15700:10:26.720 --> 00:10:31.080as being judgmental. I don't wantto be judging. Yes, I believe15800:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.919that abortion is wrong, and thisis for mostly Christian youth, you know,15900:10:35.279 --> 00:10:39.110are Christian millennials. What I believeabortion is wrong but in my case,16000:10:39.509 --> 00:10:41.950you know I wouldn't have an abortion, but you know, I wouldn't16100:10:41.950 --> 00:10:45.429want to judge someone else for havingan abortion. So how do you?16200:10:45.590 --> 00:10:48.470How do you deal with that?Because it's it's it's easy to take de16300:10:48.509 --> 00:10:52.019Bait on that right. Yeah,it is easy. And when it and16400:10:52.100 --> 00:10:54.700then it depends on certain situations.I mean, first off, in that16500:10:54.779 --> 00:10:58.779situation, where we remind a lotof students is that truth is, yes,16600:10:58.820 --> 00:11:03.419subjective, but also it's objective.Subjective in the sense that you know,16700:11:03.539 --> 00:11:05.610I like coffee, you don't.Okay that. The truth claim there16800:11:05.690 --> 00:11:09.850is that I do like it.That's true, and you don't. That's16900:11:09.929 --> 00:11:13.690true. Now subjective and how youview coffee, and it's subjective how I17000:11:13.769 --> 00:11:16.649view coffee, just like ice cream, vanilla, chocolate. So we had17100:11:16.809 --> 00:11:20.519understand that truth is subjected, toagree, but it's not just solely subjective,17200:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.080you know, in your interpretation ofit. So people make a sort17300:11:26.120 --> 00:11:30.240of claims all the time. Sowhen it comes to young people, you17400:11:30.440 --> 00:11:35.350cannot say, well, I wouldn'tdo it because I think it's wrong,17500:11:35.990 --> 00:11:39.509but it's okay for them to doit because it's their right to do it17600:11:39.750 --> 00:11:43.509because they're their own person. Soit's a personal preference to them. Now,17700:11:43.830 --> 00:11:48.659when we deals with life issues here, that is no longer subjective.17800:11:48.659 --> 00:11:52.500Yeah, that is getting about icecommunity exactly. This is not personal preference,17900:11:52.779 --> 00:11:56.460right, because if I, becauseI mean, think about what you18000:11:56.539 --> 00:11:58.259and I can do with that.That's the case of truth. In the18100:11:58.299 --> 00:12:03.210end, is subjective. And somorals and values are judgment calls by the18200:12:03.330 --> 00:12:07.409person. Right, I'm the arbiterof how I live my life by my18300:12:07.529 --> 00:12:11.570own standards, right, and soit's relative to me. So these relativistic18400:12:11.769 --> 00:12:16.600norms, in societal norms, aregoing to be dictated by whoever has the18500:12:16.639 --> 00:12:20.039most power, whoever is the mostpersuasive or the most most charismatic or who18600:12:20.159 --> 00:12:24.759can persuade more people to do certainthings. So murder and rape and human18700:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.120trafficking, if I believe that thatthose are good things for us, right,18800:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.470that's our standard, imagine the chaosthat can result, you know,18900:12:31.669 --> 00:12:37.950in our society. So we know, as human beings who are morally free19000:12:37.029 --> 00:12:43.269agents to act upon good things orbad things, we know those things to19100:12:43.389 --> 00:12:46.860be wrong. Yeah, so inthe realm then, for young people in19200:12:46.899 --> 00:12:50.220these discussions are Sam Kay, look, that's not just a personal preference.19300:12:50.899 --> 00:12:54.340If in fact this is a humanlife and has value and dignity, it's19400:12:54.340 --> 00:12:58.210not associated based on what we think, because we don't judge personhood on certain19500:12:58.210 --> 00:13:03.289properties that they either have or theylack, meaning if there's certain properties they19600:13:03.289 --> 00:13:05.889lack, that means are less human, or there's certain properties they finally gain19700:13:07.090 --> 00:13:09.850or attributed to them, then they'rethen they're more of a human right like.19800:13:11.009 --> 00:13:13.840Those are not judgment calls that wemake. So, in that sense,19900:13:13.879 --> 00:13:16.360when we lay out the claim thatthese things are now in the realms20000:13:16.399 --> 00:13:20.120of of objectivity, you can't justmake assertive claims about it. These have20100:13:20.240 --> 00:13:26.320to be now truth claims, meaningit's either morally permissible for a woman have20200:13:26.399 --> 00:13:28.590an abortion because it doesn't matter,because it's not a human being, or20300:13:28.950 --> 00:13:33.070she doesn't have, you know,the moral permissibility to have an abortion because20400:13:33.070 --> 00:13:37.110this human being has more value thanthe value of choice. Right. So,20500:13:37.230 --> 00:13:41.309as you start explaining these kind ofthings to a generation that has not20600:13:41.460 --> 00:13:48.659had a lot of rhetoric, they'venot been taught how logically and rationally to20700:13:48.899 --> 00:13:54.809lay out an argument and to testand to evaluate it and to counter those20800:13:54.850 --> 00:13:58.929type of arguments, then yes,then they just make these assertive claims.20900:14:00.049 --> 00:14:01.970So when now, when you think, well, okay, it is a21000:14:03.009 --> 00:14:05.769human life, what says when,now we're out of the realm of personal21100:14:05.809 --> 00:14:09.809preference, we're now entering into objectivity, to where there is a standard that21200:14:09.000 --> 00:14:13.600transcends us. Yeah, and ourresponsibility then, as human beings, is21300:14:13.840 --> 00:14:18.480to protect life. If someone's beingabused that we see publicly, or someone's21400:14:18.679 --> 00:14:24.950and harms way, what is ourintuitiveness? What is our reactor, reaction21500:14:24.029 --> 00:14:26.669or response to these things? isto help someone who is in need.21600:14:28.029 --> 00:14:31.590We know that that's a God giventhe ability that we have as as,21700:14:31.669 --> 00:14:35.149again, morally free agents, torespond, to care, to protect,21800:14:35.190 --> 00:14:39.019to provide. And so if thisunborn as a human being, then we21900:14:39.139 --> 00:14:41.299are to respond to protect such ahuman being. Now, in the realm22000:14:41.340 --> 00:14:43.179of people, says yeah, butI don't want to interfere that kind of22100:14:43.179 --> 00:14:48.100stuff, because who am I tojudge all John Twenty four Jesus that we22200:14:48.179 --> 00:14:52.740are to judge righteously. Yeah,not hypocritically. So the hippocrite, the22300:14:52.929 --> 00:14:56.490hypocrisy actually in all this is toknow that it's a life and to know22400:14:56.610 --> 00:15:00.889that that life has value and dignnity. That is that is attached to it22500:15:01.809 --> 00:15:03.970because they're made in the image ofGod and we know that scientifically and philosophically22600:15:05.250 --> 00:15:09.519and morally speaking. So the hypocrisythere is to say that I love life22700:15:09.840 --> 00:15:16.960but I don't support prolifers who arethere to stand in the gap for those22800:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.159people who are choosing to have anabortion in in that life. That's hypocrisy.22900:15:20.509 --> 00:15:24.909So that's actually judging someone and anunjust fashion. Yeah, that's an23000:15:24.990 --> 00:15:31.669injustice. Judging rightly and righteously,is understanding that that value of that human23100:15:31.789 --> 00:15:35.860life is greater than the value tohave an abortion. Yeah, and so23200:15:37.019 --> 00:15:41.539you're stepping in there now and you'relaying claim to these things, not because23300:15:41.539 --> 00:15:48.779you're trying to interfere and someone's rightto do something. You're intervening because that23400:15:48.980 --> 00:15:54.370human right does not trump that humanlife. Yeah, and when you start23500:15:54.450 --> 00:16:00.090putting sometimes these young people in thesesituations, they these moral dilemmas that we23600:16:00.169 --> 00:16:03.519oftentimes refer to, you start seeingthe wheels turning where they're like man,23700:16:03.559 --> 00:16:07.000I never thought of it that way. Right. Yeah, so we say23800:16:07.080 --> 00:16:11.840like, are you for or againstslavery? What? What is every young23900:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.200person, every human being our rightmind, obviously, will say is of24000:16:15.279 --> 00:16:19.909course slavery is wrong. Yeah,well, if you think slavery's wrong and24100:16:21.110 --> 00:16:25.549you support the right of people likethe abolitionists who stood against we think of24200:16:25.669 --> 00:16:30.070one of the most famous, WilliamWilberforce, who was a Christian right and24300:16:30.190 --> 00:16:34.820the legislator in the parliament. Ifyou stand for these type of movements in24400:16:34.940 --> 00:16:38.179the civil rights movements of people likeMartin Luther King Jr, then why aren't24500:16:38.179 --> 00:16:42.019you standing for the rights of theunborn, if they're human just like any24600:16:42.259 --> 00:16:47.210black, Hispanic or Chinese person?Yeah, and when you start talking to24700:16:47.289 --> 00:16:49.169them at this point you start seeingthat it's not a matter of why.24800:16:49.169 --> 00:16:52.730I don't have a right to judgethem. We shouldn't judge them. We24900:16:52.809 --> 00:16:55.690all got to be tallerant just letthem do the kind of thing if we25000:16:55.809 --> 00:16:59.730took that type of approach, Daniel, to other aspects of our life.25100:17:00.210 --> 00:17:03.279If you see someone's house being invaded, in someone's they're robbing the is and25200:17:03.359 --> 00:17:07.160what's not my house not my property. I don't want to try moves on25300:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.279my problem. You know that personthinks what they're doing is right. Whom25400:17:11.279 --> 00:17:12.519I to say that's wrong? Right? Of course it isn't work. That25500:17:12.599 --> 00:17:18.789way. We don't believe in moralrelativism, we believe in moral objectivity,25600:17:18.230 --> 00:17:22.069and so when it comes to thelife of the unborn, that as a25700:17:22.150 --> 00:17:26.069moral objective claim that we are making, and we had, as humans have25800:17:26.390 --> 00:17:30.660had, are are called by Godto stand in the gap. And it's25900:17:30.740 --> 00:17:33.539not a matter of taller prints.Matter of fact, it's a matter of26000:17:33.740 --> 00:17:38.619love. Yeah, and true lovelays down its life for others. Yeah,26100:17:38.660 --> 00:17:41.460and that's where we're hoping that young, more young people are seeing and26200:17:41.700 --> 00:17:47.289and actually I'm seeing in the churchworld, we're seeing a huge shift as26300:17:47.329 --> 00:17:49.410we're talking about all these kind ofthings in a way that they've never heard26400:17:49.450 --> 00:17:55.329before. They overwhelmingly respond and say, you're right, it's no longer about26500:17:55.529 --> 00:17:59.720tolerance, it's about truth and love. Yeah, yeah, I knew three26600:17:59.720 --> 00:18:03.480kind of the we talked earlier aboutsort of, you know, I don't26700:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.200know if we were talking about brandingor like arguments and things that we use26800:18:07.240 --> 00:18:10.599as ministries that are sort of ourown sort of thing, and within the26900:18:10.640 --> 00:18:14.549sidewall councling realm we sort of havesomething like that that we use in our27000:18:14.670 --> 00:18:18.670trainings. Cheer with you my failproofpro life argument, but that's not what27100:18:18.829 --> 00:18:22.150this is. This is sort ofour three points. Yeah, and we27200:18:22.269 --> 00:18:26.309call this our three key points forsidewall counseling. And we start with God.27300:18:26.630 --> 00:18:29.579What does God say about this?So what does God say about abortion?27400:18:29.619 --> 00:18:30.660This is how we train our sidewalkcounselors. If you want to know27500:18:30.740 --> 00:18:34.500what to say, say things withinthis framework and you'll be just fine.27600:18:34.539 --> 00:18:37.220We don't need to get into politicsall this other stuff. Stay in this27700:18:37.299 --> 00:18:41.299framework. So it's what God saysabout this. So what God says about27800:18:41.299 --> 00:18:44.569abortion? What God says about themother? He loves her, he has27900:18:44.650 --> 00:18:45.970plans for her. What God saysabout the baby? He loves that baby28000:18:47.009 --> 00:18:48.210and has plans for it. Sowhat God says about it. So we28100:18:48.250 --> 00:18:52.930start with the premise that there's agod. The humanity of the baby is28200:18:52.970 --> 00:18:55.529our second point. So we mightsay, Mama, God loves you and28300:18:55.609 --> 00:18:57.440loves your baby. Your baby's heartis already beating. And there we're talking28400:18:57.440 --> 00:19:02.279about the humanity of the baby.And then the third point that we hit28500:19:02.359 --> 00:19:04.880on his resources that are available toher. So, Mama, God loves28600:19:04.920 --> 00:19:07.440you and loves your baby. Yourbaby's heart is already beating. We have28700:19:07.559 --> 00:19:10.869help available, we have a doctorsthat would see you free of charge.28800:19:10.869 --> 00:19:12.109That's sort of what we would sayand that fits within that. So sort28900:19:12.150 --> 00:19:17.309of three points. Do you findthat that those three points, we call29000:19:17.390 --> 00:19:22.349it our three talking points, helpout, or at least or what's involved29100:19:22.589 --> 00:19:26.779in these conversations when you're talking toyoung people, are talking to anybody about29200:19:26.299 --> 00:19:30.619the issue of abortion? Absolutely,yeah. Because, again, going back29300:19:30.619 --> 00:19:34.420to the whole thing, is ifthey're self imposing their views or their opinions29400:19:34.539 --> 00:19:37.539and not looking to God, well, that's a train wreck, yeah,29500:19:37.609 --> 00:19:41.730waiting to happen. So it's nota matter of how I interpret or what29600:19:41.849 --> 00:19:45.130my personal preference is, it's what, again, the ultimate standard, ie.29700:19:45.289 --> 00:19:48.890God, is. Yeah, ifthis is what God says, that29800:19:48.970 --> 00:19:52.730were made in his image, maleand female, he made them. That's29900:19:52.769 --> 00:19:55.960either true or that's false. Yeah. Now, most people, you,30000:19:56.279 --> 00:19:59.519and I know I speaking in termsin America. Yeah, they won't,30100:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.319will not argue necessarily against their beinga God. Now, obviously have a30200:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.799lot of atheist friends and as anapologist I spend a lot of time dealing30300:20:06.839 --> 00:20:10.869with secularists and agnostics and atheists,you know, in skeptics, and I30400:20:10.990 --> 00:20:12.869love them dearly and, in matterof fact, a lot of them are30500:20:12.910 --> 00:20:18.069very respectful and very cordial and we'reseeing a whole new generation of young atheist30600:20:18.150 --> 00:20:22.779people who are throwing out questions andtheir intrigue and inquiring upon this and looking30700:20:22.819 --> 00:20:27.740at that, and so there's there'sa great housing of debate that is taking30800:20:27.779 --> 00:20:32.940place there. But bringing the issueof God, like I've talked a lot30900:20:32.980 --> 00:20:36.049of atheists who, again, theydon't have an ultimate standard. They're the31000:20:36.130 --> 00:20:38.849arbiter, right, yeah, youwere society other self and there using yea.31100:20:38.930 --> 00:20:42.609So their societal norms, where it'sthe culture that determines, and so31200:20:42.769 --> 00:20:47.170they'll make the claims. And sothey're still trying to hold, you know,31300:20:47.369 --> 00:20:51.200to an objective truth. Obviously,like guys like Sam Harris, the31400:20:51.680 --> 00:20:55.359you know, the the well knownfamed atheist, he believes that there's,31500:20:55.759 --> 00:20:59.279you know, objective truth that exists, but it's not because there's a God31600:20:59.400 --> 00:21:03.160that exists. Yeah, but fromthe most part, most people who believe31700:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.150that there's a god now what kindof God that is. That that's for31800:21:07.230 --> 00:21:11.309a later discussion. But believe there'ssomething that transcends us. That's a very31900:21:11.349 --> 00:21:14.670effective thing. And yes, toyour second point, when you're dealing with32000:21:14.710 --> 00:21:21.220the humanity of that unborn child inthe mother's womb. You're looking at an32100:21:21.339 --> 00:21:27.619individual with its own unique composition,its own DNA, it's unique fingerprints,32200:21:29.019 --> 00:21:34.890right, and the uniqueness of eachperson really brings the argument from a philosophical32300:21:36.049 --> 00:21:42.490one that oftentimes could be out therein the realm of distance to now personalizing32400:21:44.289 --> 00:21:47.319someone that you and I once werein our mother's well, yeah, so.32500:21:47.599 --> 00:21:52.160And then, yes, three,the resources effective because, as you32600:21:52.319 --> 00:21:56.240know, Daniel, a lot ofpeople are there because they believe that's the32700:21:56.519 --> 00:22:03.950only results or resort to abortion becausethey're they don't have the money or they're32800:22:03.990 --> 00:22:07.069in a bad situation. So itcould be for social reasons, it could32900:22:07.069 --> 00:22:11.430be for economical reasons, could befor relational reasons, it could be for33000:22:11.509 --> 00:22:15.140spiritual reasons, and they find themselvesat an abortion clinic and if we share33100:22:15.180 --> 00:22:18.619with the that there are, thereare resources maybe that they haven't considered.33200:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.140Yeah, where they've been doubting intheir mind or out of fear, they33300:22:22.380 --> 00:22:26.619resort to go to an abortion clinic, maybe not to have the abortion but33400:22:26.740 --> 00:22:30.369to maybe figure out, okay,is this the next steps? When you33500:22:30.450 --> 00:22:33.490provide them saying no, there areresources or things that we can do through33600:22:33.529 --> 00:22:37.410cities for life and through other agencies. It does help, because you and33700:22:37.450 --> 00:22:40.930I both have seen it, youknow, our wives have seen that,33800:22:41.089 --> 00:22:42.690and that would be very effective.So, yeah, that's those three talking33900:22:42.769 --> 00:22:48.599points are very effective, specially whenyou're in the thick of it. Yeah,34000:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.599now, do you think, though, those three talking points a sort34100:22:51.640 --> 00:22:55.279of fit into a framework when you'retalking with someone, you know, away34200:22:55.359 --> 00:22:57.079from the you know, the battlezone, so to speak, away from34300:22:57.119 --> 00:23:00.990the abortion clinic, but even likean in a university scenario, you find34400:23:02.509 --> 00:23:06.190even bringing because I know there's somearguments out there that, you know,34500:23:06.269 --> 00:23:10.630we shouldn't even bring God into theconversation, and of course we're leading with34600:23:10.869 --> 00:23:12.940with God. Right. What's inthose three points? Do you find that34700:23:14.019 --> 00:23:17.900those three points would be good inthat scenario, in the university scenario,34800:23:17.980 --> 00:23:21.940when you're talking to, you know, college students and they're being brainwashed by34900:23:21.980 --> 00:23:25.500their by the professors and and thatkind of thing? Well, yeah,35000:23:25.500 --> 00:23:27.690I see so. Again, likelike anything, it's the setting rights,35100:23:27.769 --> 00:23:30.730like you're saying, if you know, we're training people who want to be35200:23:30.769 --> 00:23:33.490on the sidewalk, you know,and it's a ministry saying this is our35300:23:33.529 --> 00:23:38.089approach and a lot of people thatare pulling in, specially at that time,35400:23:38.490 --> 00:23:41.319going into an abortion clinic. It'semotional. Yeah, we don't know35500:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.400their background, but we know anybodywho resorts to going to an abortion clinic,35600:23:45.839 --> 00:23:49.000we know there's a lot of emotionaltrauma there. There's a lot,35700:23:49.279 --> 00:23:52.960in some cases a lot of depressiongoing on there. And so you want35800:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.269to be the hands, a feedof Jesus, and so immediately recognizing God35900:23:56.430 --> 00:24:00.430in this situation is always important.Now, when you take it to an36000:24:00.470 --> 00:24:03.390academic setting, when people are outand about going to different classrooms, right,36100:24:03.470 --> 00:24:08.190and we know predominantly the view onour on the university campus is a36200:24:08.309 --> 00:24:15.180godless one. Yeah, and naturalismis the philosophical assumption here that bleeds in36300:24:15.299 --> 00:24:18.460every subject matter. So that's goingto be a little bit different. So36400:24:18.660 --> 00:24:22.779my take, oftentimes, my approach, especially, and having been on the36500:24:22.819 --> 00:24:26.809university camp as many times, dealingwith people who are secularists who do not36600:24:26.890 --> 00:24:30.089believe that there's a God. Now, obviously, if they do, then36700:24:30.089 --> 00:24:33.730the argument will still be the same, sure, but what we want to36800:24:33.730 --> 00:24:37.089do is we want to approach themfirst and forms on a philosophical one.36900:24:37.210 --> 00:24:41.319was just will lead me to therealms of ethical issues and moral issues down37000:24:41.359 --> 00:24:44.759the road as I have this discussion. But first and foremost, I apply37100:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.079the claim to them. Say humanshave value simply because they're human. Now37200:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.039I want to know whether or notthey agree with that or not. So,37300:24:51.119 --> 00:24:52.589yes, I'm not starting with theDeity first. We're dealing with the37400:24:52.630 --> 00:24:57.390humanity issue, okay, and we'redealing with value, the value of something,37500:24:57.950 --> 00:25:00.549and I want to understand where theystand with that. And the other37600:25:00.670 --> 00:25:03.150thing too, as I'm asking thequestion is, is whether or not they37700:25:03.190 --> 00:25:07.059believe truth is relative or it's absolute, if there's a standard. Now I37800:25:07.099 --> 00:25:10.380know the course there's a standard,because the moment which they're talking, they37900:25:10.380 --> 00:25:12.779believe that their standard truth, becausethey're making truth claims or sort of claims.38000:25:12.819 --> 00:25:15.180Yeah, it's either right or it'seither wrong. It's either true or38100:25:15.180 --> 00:25:19.299it's either false. So I wantto establish some common ground with them in38200:25:19.420 --> 00:25:22.329the academic world. Yeah, andif I have, let's say, less38300:25:22.329 --> 00:25:26.490than five minutes with them, sayhey, do you believe that humans have38400:25:26.529 --> 00:25:30.490value simply because your human meaning arehumans, you are unique creation other than38500:25:30.529 --> 00:25:34.609anything else, and someone says humanshave no greater value than animals, well38600:25:34.609 --> 00:25:37.480then I have to take a differentapproach with them to understand what an unpack38700:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.640that for me and see what theymean by that. Second now is a38800:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.839scientific one, and of course welive in the scientific and inquiry that of38900:25:45.960 --> 00:25:51.509our society in the twenty one century, and that is science proves, based39000:25:51.549 --> 00:25:56.309on the the the Science of embryology, that that life begins at the moment39100:25:56.390 --> 00:25:59.750of conception, that when you haveagain that fertilizes over them, that Zygoat39200:26:00.150 --> 00:26:03.460that you went it's and fuse withtwenty three chromosomes from a female over them39300:26:03.539 --> 00:26:08.099and twenty three chromosomes from the malesperm in a unite together you have a39400:26:08.180 --> 00:26:12.180forty six chromosome human life and asa scientific fact, that is not Jason's39500:26:12.180 --> 00:26:17.299opinion or Daniel's opinion or anyone's opinionbased on the pro life perspective. We're39600:26:17.299 --> 00:26:21.569not dealing with politics that I'm alibertarian, a conservative, Republican or whatever,39700:26:21.609 --> 00:26:25.730or Democrat. I'm making a scientificclaim and in the scientific world,39800:26:25.809 --> 00:26:30.329specially in a realm of academia,right where most of them predominantly believe that39900:26:30.490 --> 00:26:34.519evolution is a scientific fact, I'musing that as an argument to see where40000:26:34.519 --> 00:26:37.960they stand with that. Because,remember, if they don't believe there's a40100:26:37.000 --> 00:26:41.559god, therefore they don't believe there'san being that has exhaustive knowledge. Therefore,40200:26:41.759 --> 00:26:45.519we're only limited in our space andtime, this continuum, meaning we're40300:26:45.559 --> 00:26:51.150close isolated system. We're just gainingground, as science proves other things.40400:26:51.230 --> 00:26:55.230And so, based on the scientificmethod, our censor experiences, is what40500:26:55.349 --> 00:26:57.150we do, how we determine whatis true and what is false. I'm40600:26:57.230 --> 00:27:00.349using that to my advantage because,yes, I do believe, as even40700:27:00.390 --> 00:27:03.740my atheist friends believe, that wererational human beings. Yeah, now,40800:27:03.819 --> 00:27:07.859why do we attain rationality? That'syour approach, if you're an atheist,40900:27:07.900 --> 00:27:11.180is going to be different than mineas a theist. But the point is41000:27:11.339 --> 00:27:15.970is that we're finding common ground onphilosophical value, dignity and also the scientific41100:27:15.210 --> 00:27:18.809evidence that we now have, overwhelming, based on the Science of embryology,41200:27:19.289 --> 00:27:22.490that the unborn is indeed a humanlife. Now I want to throw that41300:27:22.609 --> 00:27:27.809out there with at the to theuniversity student to see how they respond,41400:27:27.970 --> 00:27:33.000because also my conclusion is, if, if, if we all know that41500:27:33.279 --> 00:27:36.960that we are more valuable than anyother created being, like animal in the41600:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.519Animal Kingdom. As human beings,we have diggingty, dignity and worth,41700:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.670that we are a we're genetically composedhuman beings with a body, soul.41800:27:47.150 --> 00:27:51.150Okay, and science proves that evenfrom the moment of conception, that we41900:27:51.230 --> 00:27:55.670are a whole human being developing inthe womb, obviously, of not developing42000:27:55.710 --> 00:27:59.579into a person. We're not apotential human, but we're human with great42100:27:59.579 --> 00:28:03.339potential, made in the image ofGod. Therefore, my conclusion would be42200:28:03.420 --> 00:28:07.779to them, if that's the case, if humans have value because we're human42300:28:07.859 --> 00:28:11.019beings and science proves at the momentof conception that you're a human, your42400:28:11.019 --> 00:28:15.529a whole human being, right,your distinct whole human being, all the42500:28:15.690 --> 00:28:19.809genetic genetic compositions right there, fromthe start. Right. That means abortion42600:28:21.009 --> 00:28:23.690is morally wrong then, yeah,and if something, if there are moral42700:28:23.730 --> 00:28:30.200goods and moral evils and so manyat the time, is saying that abortion42800:28:30.279 --> 00:28:37.119is a moral good, they haveto defend that argument and, based on42900:28:37.240 --> 00:28:40.240what I just share with you,Daniel, it's a very effective one.43000:28:41.319 --> 00:28:45.670We found common ground that that valueis with among humans greater than any other43100:28:45.789 --> 00:28:51.190created source. Yeah, right,or species and science. Again, they43200:28:51.269 --> 00:28:53.390believe in science. We believe inscience. That could be proven right,43300:28:53.990 --> 00:28:59.500because we believe there's self evident truths. That's a strong army and outside what43400:28:59.579 --> 00:29:02.660you believe personally. Right. Well, okay, I guess that I can43500:29:02.700 --> 00:29:04.539see that point. But then nowyou have to wrestle with the conclusion.43600:29:04.619 --> 00:29:10.529Then then you're okay. If it'smorally wrong to take an innocent life,43700:29:10.529 --> 00:29:11.930you're okay with that. Well,of course not. I wouldn't do that.43800:29:12.329 --> 00:29:15.650But who am I say they cando that? Well, no,43900:29:15.849 --> 00:29:18.009see, now you're in a trapbecause, just like we're saying earlier,44000:29:18.329 --> 00:29:22.410if you put anybody in that situation, you see so many being harmed or44100:29:22.450 --> 00:29:27.640being violated. We have an obligationas good citizens, as yea morally free44200:29:27.720 --> 00:29:33.960agents, to protect people, especiallypeople who can't protect themselves. Yeah,44300:29:33.960 --> 00:29:38.230that's why we believe in military webelieve in law enforcement that doesn't force people44400:29:38.710 --> 00:29:45.589to be good, but protect thegood people from violent people. And that's44500:29:45.630 --> 00:29:49.269exactly what we're setting the course oncampus in this pro life discussion to have44600:29:49.630 --> 00:29:55.019so people can see not an alternativebut what is really true, and that44700:29:55.259 --> 00:30:00.220is the unborn human. We makethose claims philosophically and scientifically. So that44800:30:00.380 --> 00:30:03.900is a compelling argument based on makingthe case or laying out the case for44900:30:04.019 --> 00:30:08.089life on the university campus. Yeah, I know, I find you know,45000:30:08.170 --> 00:30:14.289I have the wonderful opportunity to talkthe pro choice atheist on a regular45100:30:14.329 --> 00:30:17.529basis to the folks who in frontof the abortion cliniccker out there to oppose45200:30:17.609 --> 00:30:19.410our effort. Yeah, and alot of these these folks are in the45300:30:19.450 --> 00:30:25.119universities or just graduated from the universityor whatever. And one of the things45400:30:25.160 --> 00:30:30.400that I find is they don't reallymake the argument that it's not a life.45500:30:30.680 --> 00:30:33.079Some do, some will say it'snot a life and you have to45600:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.630define will define life for me,because a sperm, which is life,45700:30:36.950 --> 00:30:40.069and egg, which is life,don't come together make nonlife. And so45800:30:40.190 --> 00:30:42.230that's I made it. What theyreally mean and I think really what pro45900:30:42.349 --> 00:30:45.710life is mean. When we saylife begins at conception, we could actually46000:30:45.710 --> 00:30:52.099say life is there before conception andreality is what we're saying is a unique46100:30:52.460 --> 00:30:56.579life is formed at conception. Butwhat I hear from our lot our pro46200:30:56.660 --> 00:31:00.740choice and lot atheist people is,yes, it's life, but it's not46300:31:00.859 --> 00:31:03.259a person. And so they're arguingsort of against personhood. Of course,46400:31:03.329 --> 00:31:07.970the logical con question, the logicalquestion with that is, okay, when46500:31:07.049 --> 00:31:11.329does it become a person? AndI've even had some say, you know46600:31:11.690 --> 00:31:15.410science, science says that it's nota person. Well, science can't really46700:31:15.450 --> 00:31:19.200due person. Who Do anyone likescience? That's sort of a philosophical thing.46800:31:19.279 --> 00:31:22.279You agree with that as a yeah, there's that. It's in the46900:31:22.319 --> 00:31:25.039side. It's not only that,but it's a metaphysical and that's the problem.47000:31:25.160 --> 00:31:29.079Is What happens often times. IsGood Point, Daniel, is they47100:31:29.119 --> 00:31:33.750have a bad philosophy that is inducedinto science, which makes now bad science.47200:31:33.789 --> 00:31:37.630Yeah, and so those are philosophicalclaims that science and in of itself47300:31:38.309 --> 00:31:44.190cannot test. Okay, for example, you can't test what actually is esthetic,47400:31:44.230 --> 00:31:48.900yeah, or value or the moralduty that we have. You can't47500:31:48.900 --> 00:31:51.579test that in a tube. Scientificallybased, I was a saying earlier,47600:31:51.619 --> 00:31:53.619based on the scientific method. Sowhen they're in laying claim to that,47700:31:53.740 --> 00:31:57.539they're trying to make a scientific argument, but what they're doing is are inserting47800:31:57.579 --> 00:32:01.569a metaphysical claim in that about personand personhood. Yeah, that's not a47900:32:01.650 --> 00:32:07.849scientific argument. And so now whatactually is? They're digging themselves deeper because48000:32:07.849 --> 00:32:13.049they're trying to be very explicit andwhat they mean to defend why they are48100:32:13.490 --> 00:32:15.480for abortion. Yeah, because theydo identify, like you said, based48200:32:15.559 --> 00:32:21.039on science, the moment of conceptionyou have all the genetic composition that is48300:32:21.160 --> 00:32:24.920needed for that human being to beyou know, and nine months, you48400:32:25.000 --> 00:32:30.309know, whatever it takes. Youknow some we know premature labors that are48500:32:30.430 --> 00:32:35.589now in this world outside of thewomb. And so what I oftentimes do48600:32:35.670 --> 00:32:39.230in these situations to help the personwho's trapped in this kind of thing saying48700:32:39.230 --> 00:32:43.190well, okay, it is,it is a life, but as it's48800:32:43.269 --> 00:32:47.339developing certain abilities and properties, it'sbecoming more of a person. Well,48900:32:47.420 --> 00:32:51.140now they have to define what youmean by a person, right. Are49000:32:51.180 --> 00:32:53.940Those two separate things? You canhave a you can. Can you have49100:32:54.539 --> 00:32:58.890life without being a person? Andcan you hit be a person without what49200:32:59.049 --> 00:33:00.450type of life? Right, sonow you have to define both. Now49300:33:00.529 --> 00:33:04.049it's not just that what do youmean by person? It's like, okay,49400:33:04.369 --> 00:33:07.369what is your definition of life then, and what is your definition a49500:33:07.569 --> 00:33:10.130person? The thing scientifically, wecan tell as again, as we just49600:33:10.289 --> 00:33:14.640mentioned, the twenty three, youknow, cells from the o them,49700:33:14.680 --> 00:33:15.960from the female of them, andtwenty three from the sperm of a male.49800:33:16.759 --> 00:33:22.839Those ignited together, it literally islike a bang. Yeah, okay,49900:33:22.000 --> 00:33:27.549in the womb that is creating life. Now we as Christians, now50000:33:28.950 --> 00:33:34.269believe that the composites of a humanbeing our body soul. So to have50100:33:34.509 --> 00:33:37.789life there's a soul. You can'thave one without the others who are so50200:33:37.990 --> 00:33:42.740connected within the body. Soul isa human being who is a person.50300:33:43.660 --> 00:33:47.259Yeah, okay. Now a lotof people try to lay claim now psychologically50400:33:47.299 --> 00:33:53.140or brain activity. Yeah, it'sgoing. I think that's to Synthia's didn't50500:33:53.140 --> 00:33:55.970have sentience, the Synthi, andthat's an argument they try to make.50600:33:57.089 --> 00:34:00.089Now, see, now, whatthey're doing is they're dumping the scientific evidence50700:34:00.450 --> 00:34:04.529and they're trying to get in therealm of the philosophical yeah, and so50800:34:05.210 --> 00:34:08.250the act to again stay consistent withlife and personhood. So what I oftentimes50900:34:08.329 --> 00:34:10.719like to do is say, let'spause for a moment and let's introduce a51000:34:10.800 --> 00:34:16.719baby in the situation. At whatpoint would you say abortion is a viable51100:34:16.800 --> 00:34:22.880option, even after birth, becausewe even have a newborn to even a51200:34:22.920 --> 00:34:27.230toddler who's not able to walk yet. Yeah, right, is limited in51300:34:27.269 --> 00:34:30.110their functionality. So the size,so I use shape. Yeah, as51400:34:30.150 --> 00:34:34.030a way to walk them through this, and they don't know this. I'm51500:34:34.110 --> 00:34:37.869just having this kind of conversation,trying to stay considered, helping them.51600:34:37.909 --> 00:34:40.900If you will be consistent with lifeand personhood. The size. Does the51700:34:40.980 --> 00:34:45.380size of the baby determine if it'smore valuable than the size of the unborn51800:34:45.420 --> 00:34:50.699baby in the womb? Right whenyou look at the habitation, does the51900:34:50.820 --> 00:34:54.210birth canal now determine what becomes moreof a personhood or less of a personhood?52000:34:54.530 --> 00:34:57.809You know, that's still in thewomber, outside though the womb.52100:34:58.130 --> 00:35:00.409When you look at abilities and properties, as we were talking earlier, them52200:35:00.489 --> 00:35:07.400developing certain abilities and capacity to movetheir hands or more brain activity of the52300:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.880or the heartbeat. You know,we see a lot of legislators or trying52400:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.079to banning abortion after there as thereis brain activity or there's a heartbeat kind52500:35:15.079 --> 00:35:19.079of thing, after fourteen weeks orwhatever, eight weeks, fourteen weeks,52600:35:19.079 --> 00:35:22.510depends on what state you're in.But but just because they have they lack52700:35:22.670 --> 00:35:27.949certain abilities and properties. Member thegenetic composition is there, the code is52800:35:28.070 --> 00:35:31.510there that's developing these type of abilitiesand properties, but that does not mean52900:35:31.590 --> 00:35:36.260because they're limited in their abilities andproperties that they're less human. Yeah,53000:35:36.260 --> 00:35:38.380because the value has been there fromthe moment of conception, as you and53100:35:38.420 --> 00:35:42.860I've been arguing as a prolifer.We happen to be Christian, right,53200:35:44.139 --> 00:35:49.179but we can, we can defendlife right outside of scripture, because it53300:35:49.260 --> 00:35:52.570points back to the truth of whatscripture is. And then the final thing53400:35:52.690 --> 00:35:57.170is, and all these things,we look at the essentials. And then53500:35:57.409 --> 00:36:04.559you just because a baby is atthe time dependent on the mother for nutrients,53600:36:05.039 --> 00:36:08.360oxygen and different things that are beingsupplied, does not mean it's less53700:36:08.400 --> 00:36:12.480of a human because as dependent onthe mother to live. Yeah, even53800:36:12.559 --> 00:36:15.239outside of the womb, you andI are limited and what we can and53900:36:15.360 --> 00:36:21.349cannot do their times, where ifyou get injured and you can't walk and54000:36:21.510 --> 00:36:23.710your your wife and kids have tosupport you and get you to the car54100:36:23.829 --> 00:36:28.070and outside the car, does notmean that at that current state that you're54200:36:28.070 --> 00:36:30.670not able to walk, your lessof a human being. Right, we54300:36:30.750 --> 00:36:34.260are depending and on certain essentials evenas we live. Food, still,54400:36:34.659 --> 00:36:38.780water, nutrients and oxygen, justlike that, that fetus, that unborn54500:36:38.860 --> 00:36:44.059baby in the and his or hermother's womb. So when you walk through54600:36:44.099 --> 00:36:47.849the course of shape to look atthe difference between an unborn baby and then,54700:36:47.889 --> 00:36:52.530this case, a newborn baby ora toddler. You see that there54800:36:52.650 --> 00:36:55.889is no difference between either one ofthem. That says that one is a54900:36:55.929 --> 00:36:59.690human, one is not a human. They are both human. One is55000:36:59.769 --> 00:37:04.239just developing memory. told you it'snot a potential human. It's a human55100:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.760with great potential. Right. Andso now you're saying is you're now trying55200:37:07.800 --> 00:37:14.039to have the personhood have more ofthese properties and these abilities to now make55300:37:14.119 --> 00:37:17.869it a official human being. Right, here's a problem. They're making the55400:37:17.989 --> 00:37:22.190case that they made inn one thousandeight hundred and fifty seven with Scott Versus55500:37:22.269 --> 00:37:27.750Sanford, when our own Supreme Courtmember. This is from the Declaration of55600:37:27.829 --> 00:37:30.340Independence, yeah, that there isa god, that there are self evident55700:37:30.420 --> 00:37:35.260truths of these unailable rights that theking or anyone does not have a right55800:37:35.380 --> 00:37:39.500to assurp or infringe upon because ourGod given yeah, this is the same55900:37:40.099 --> 00:37:45.250country with the constitution that has lastedlonger than any other constitution in the history56000:37:45.289 --> 00:37:47.650of the world. The average isseventeen years. We're going on almost two56100:37:47.650 --> 00:37:52.090hundred fifty years with our Constitution.That says that we have these bill of56200:37:52.130 --> 00:37:55.650rights. We have these God givenrights of reflecting the declaration of the pentage56300:37:55.690 --> 00:38:00.679and explain and expounded upon as sself governance. Yeah, under the guise56400:38:00.880 --> 00:38:06.559of federalism. And in yet,in one thousand eight hundred and fifty seven,56500:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.199when we believe that all men arecreated equal, every human being,56600:38:10.119 --> 00:38:16.190and yet the Supreme Court says blackpeople are less human than white people.56700:38:16.190 --> 00:38:22.750Yeah, and they pass legislation tocontinue to allow slavery to be legalized in56800:38:22.869 --> 00:38:25.949our nation. That is that wasmorally wrong. Yeah. Right. So56900:38:27.300 --> 00:38:30.659they're making the claim of making thisdistinction. And the same thing happen,57000:38:31.059 --> 00:38:34.619as you and I know, innineteen seventy three when it came to Rovy57100:38:34.659 --> 00:38:37.739Wade. And the thing that wehave to understand that most people do understand57200:38:37.739 --> 00:38:44.289the backdrop behind prior to nineteen seventythree is, and using this doctor,57300:38:44.409 --> 00:38:47.969Heckel, who came and he wasdoing antagony, Recapitlis philoginy is, he57400:38:49.130 --> 00:38:51.929was saying that when you look atthe in this is where the trimester started,57500:38:52.010 --> 00:38:58.159come out to try to specify when, in fact that fetus becomes a57600:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.039human being. Yeah, to allow, because it was about abortion on demand,57700:39:01.519 --> 00:39:05.760the rights of women based on thefourteen of minute. That's what they57800:39:05.840 --> 00:39:09.269wanted to get past. So whenyou look back in Insan eighteen fifty seven,57900:39:09.269 --> 00:39:12.949and you look in nineteen seventy threeand you had a doctor, Heykol,58000:39:12.989 --> 00:39:19.190who actually forged what he was tellingour own Supreme Court what it actually58100:39:19.269 --> 00:39:21.590is, that you're a boarding moreor less as an animal. Yes,58200:39:21.670 --> 00:39:23.980some sort that's evolving in the womb, in the was a form of evolution58300:39:24.099 --> 00:39:29.019that's kind of place in the womb. Whom you saying you really want to58400:39:29.059 --> 00:39:30.980go and and to make those samekind of similar argument that they made in58500:39:30.980 --> 00:39:34.900one thousand eight hundred and fifty seventhat said that blacks were less human than58600:39:34.980 --> 00:39:39.329whites, and then and document andforging this documentation of saying what in actually58700:39:39.369 --> 00:39:43.010is in the womb, because that'sexactly what they're saying, is that you're58800:39:43.090 --> 00:39:45.010looking at the mother's womb, you'relooking at this life in the woman.58900:39:45.090 --> 00:39:47.530You're saying, no, it's lessof a human therefore, as a right59000:39:47.570 --> 00:39:51.849to abort it because it's not whatyou think it is. When you say59100:39:52.210 --> 00:39:55.480it's a human life, right,you're making those arguments that they made sense59200:39:55.599 --> 00:39:59.280then and I don't think a lotof people and they really understand what they're59300:39:59.280 --> 00:40:00.440argument. They want to go downthere, they want to get them that59400:40:00.559 --> 00:40:05.519through. Oh yeah, it's goodto depend folks down and saying, Hey,59500:40:05.519 --> 00:40:07.670you're making the same arguments that theNazis made. Actual you making the59600:40:07.710 --> 00:40:12.590same arguments that racist made, yeah, back in the eighteen fif not to59700:40:12.630 --> 00:40:15.590say we're saying they're racist, sure, but so it's just like the bringers59800:40:15.590 --> 00:40:16.989of the arm. Yeah, andthat's what I think, Dan, is59900:40:16.989 --> 00:40:20.630very important. I Know I lovehow you do this too, is we're60000:40:20.670 --> 00:40:23.059not looking to prove people wrong.Okay, yeah, we want them to60100:40:23.099 --> 00:40:25.860say, well, let me letme get this clear, and that's always60200:40:25.900 --> 00:40:29.539a great way of it. Alwaystell people there's two ways, specially in60300:40:29.539 --> 00:40:34.659the abortion realm clarity and charity.Be Clear and what you're saying and make60400:40:34.659 --> 00:40:37.409sure you're being charitable and saying itlike if he'Sians and fifteen says, speak60500:40:37.409 --> 00:40:40.130the truth and love. Yeah,we can't do one without the other.60600:40:40.570 --> 00:40:44.090So I'm not. You know,we don't jump to conclusions for them.60700:40:44.210 --> 00:40:45.690So let me just be clear,or let me get this straight. What60800:40:45.809 --> 00:40:50.199you're saying is and repeat it backto them. Yeah, you see,60900:40:50.320 --> 00:40:52.199you know, it's interesting. Ifyou're making this claim, we're making the61000:40:52.199 --> 00:40:57.480distincts between life and personhood. Doyou realize that they did that in one61100:40:57.480 --> 00:41:00.039thousand eight hundred and fifty seven,when they're still legalizing slavery or why they're61200:41:00.079 --> 00:41:04.869defending their rights to have slaves?And then when the woman had a right61300:41:05.030 --> 00:41:08.989abortion on demand, to board theirbaby any stage in the trimesters, and61400:41:09.070 --> 00:41:15.150yet that we fent now know thatthat was not scientifically grounded on facts.61500:41:15.269 --> 00:41:17.150Yeah, nor was it in eighthundred and fifty seven. You wouldn't support61600:41:17.150 --> 00:41:21.099that. And if you know theevidence that we have now scientifically and how61700:41:21.179 --> 00:41:25.179things were doctored and Hakel was notbeing he was not a legitimized doctor,61800:41:25.260 --> 00:41:30.219but yeah, it was. Theseare things were presented falsely. What happens61900:41:30.260 --> 00:41:34.449in any case if evidence was presentedfalsely or been tampered with, we throw62000:41:34.489 --> 00:41:37.329it out. Yeah, so whywould you then be taking those same type62100:41:37.369 --> 00:41:43.010of approaches into this argument, claimingwhat you're saying is right? So those62200:41:43.050 --> 00:41:45.889are as helpful ways to clarify themess and sizes, because we know it's62300:41:45.929 --> 00:41:49.639charged up. Yeah, sure,people are defense. I mean one of62400:41:49.679 --> 00:41:52.280the things I think to me oneof the barriers is, and I think62500:41:52.320 --> 00:41:57.320the barrier with with young people,with millennials is in Church folks to you62600:41:57.440 --> 00:42:00.510know, is this politicized nature ofthe issue of abortion. I believe the62700:42:00.590 --> 00:42:06.429enemy has successfully politicize an issue,that it's a life and death it's a62800:42:06.510 --> 00:42:10.150human being made in the image ofGod issue. It's not a Republican Democrat62900:42:10.349 --> 00:42:15.179issue. And yet people want tostay away from it because they don't want63000:42:15.179 --> 00:42:20.860to be perceived as, you know, a Republican or a conservative or,63100:42:20.980 --> 00:42:23.940you know, don't trump support orwhatever. So they just don't mess with63200:42:23.940 --> 00:42:29.340the issue of abortion. And Ithink when we yield that ground, we63300:42:29.420 --> 00:42:31.690yield ground that we ought not right. This is we have this conviction up63400:42:31.690 --> 00:42:37.650based on our political persuasion. Idon't have any any illusion that the Republican63500:42:37.769 --> 00:42:40.289Party is going to end abortion inour nation. You know, I don't63600:42:40.289 --> 00:42:45.119think there's a lot of pro prochoice Republicans if you really ask them the63700:42:45.280 --> 00:42:47.800questions. But what do you mean? You find that there's a lot of63800:42:47.880 --> 00:42:52.239political like hands off, don't wantto touch that issue. We need to63900:42:52.320 --> 00:42:55.840move on to more like feeding thehungry and that sort of stuff. I64000:42:55.880 --> 00:43:00.190want to touch this abortion issue becauseit's politicized. You Fund that. But64100:43:00.309 --> 00:43:01.989yeah, and I think it's agood distinction to and I have a lot64200:43:02.070 --> 00:43:06.190of conversations with a lot of pastorsaround the country on this very topic,64300:43:06.230 --> 00:43:09.510Daniel. And the thing is isyou have to distinguish between legal and moral.64400:43:09.989 --> 00:43:14.099So, for example, first andforemost this is about legislating morality.64500:43:14.340 --> 00:43:16.019That's what politics, at the heartof it, is all about. That's64600:43:16.059 --> 00:43:20.380a good thing. So, ifyou care about your taxes, if you64700:43:20.420 --> 00:43:22.739care about the school system that yourkids are in, if you care about64800:43:22.900 --> 00:43:30.250having elected officials who are acting inaccordance to laws above them, not that64900:43:30.329 --> 00:43:35.050their lawmakers therefore there like gods andin themselves right, they can rule and65000:43:35.090 --> 00:43:38.250rain, and that's that's eliteism,this dictatorship. If you care about what65100:43:38.449 --> 00:43:42.760gambling does in our lives, ifyou care about cleaning up our streets,65200:43:42.800 --> 00:43:46.159if you care about poverty, now, the government sold job is not to65300:43:46.280 --> 00:43:51.880be the method in which we solveall of our problems. But if you65400:43:51.920 --> 00:43:53.960care about education, if you careabout taxes, if you care about business,65500:43:54.039 --> 00:43:57.429if you care about economy, ifyou care about, you know,65600:43:57.469 --> 00:44:00.949lighting up our streets, in theroadsides that we have both on a state65700:44:00.030 --> 00:44:05.230and federal level. Then you docare about politics. Yeah, that politicizing65800:44:05.630 --> 00:44:09.380as certain ideology, but you careabout legislating what type of morality that we65900:44:09.579 --> 00:44:15.980know is good and that and anddistinguishing that which is evil, then it66000:44:15.059 --> 00:44:21.340does matter. But first and foremost, I'm not pro life because I happen66100:44:21.380 --> 00:44:24.130to vote Republican or or whatever thecase may be. There's a lot of66200:44:24.210 --> 00:44:29.130my friends who are Democrat who arepro life. So yes, it's not66300:44:29.210 --> 00:44:31.329a bluer red issue, it's amoral issue. Yeah, and as a66400:44:31.449 --> 00:44:37.130result of that, morally speaking,that is above any party line. We're66500:44:37.170 --> 00:44:42.079not politicizing the baby, the unbornbaby and any which way, just like66600:44:42.119 --> 00:44:45.159we don't want to be politicizing humantrafficking, yeah, or we don't be66700:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.760politicizing poverty. We believe that,as we keep saying over and over and66800:44:49.880 --> 00:44:52.559why? Because we're made in theimage of God. Yeah, humans have66900:44:52.639 --> 00:44:54.469value simply because they're human. They'remade in the image of God, and67000:44:54.989 --> 00:44:59.269it starts in the womb. Yes, supposed to be the safest place.67100:44:59.309 --> 00:45:04.030I want you to wrap up herein just a second. This will sort67200:45:04.070 --> 00:45:07.110of be the maybe the last,the last point that we touch on because67300:45:07.179 --> 00:45:09.019you brought it up and I wantedto bring it up. Is this this67400:45:09.500 --> 00:45:15.460idea that we are made in theimage of God. To me that's like67500:45:16.059 --> 00:45:22.690BIB weekly. That's the most importantpoint. We're dealing with PROBABLIFE, we're67600:45:22.730 --> 00:45:27.090dealing with and we're dealing with thevalue of unborn life. What does it67700:45:27.250 --> 00:45:30.969mean on an apologetics level, someyoung person was to come to you and67800:45:30.050 --> 00:45:32.889say, you know, I believethat abortion is wrong because we're made in67900:45:32.889 --> 00:45:35.719the image of God, but Idon't know how to define. One of68000:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.280my friends at high schools asking me, what does it mean to be made68100:45:38.320 --> 00:45:40.400in the image of God? Whatdo you mean by that? And I68200:45:40.519 --> 00:45:45.079really can't define. How would youhelp that young person to define what it68300:45:45.360 --> 00:45:46.519would it means to be made inthe Umage of God? Another that can68400:45:46.559 --> 00:45:51.389be a sort of a big,big subject, but just in a few68500:45:51.429 --> 00:45:53.710minutes. Well, first I wantto just put a little cheap plug though,68600:45:53.829 --> 00:45:58.710but the Benham's and I we dida thirty day devotion on you version.68700:45:58.949 --> 00:46:00.510Okay, it's an I will standstrong and thirty day devotion. YEA,68800:46:00.630 --> 00:46:05.619all that. Yeah, and thefirst ten days is loving God in68900:46:05.699 --> 00:46:07.579his word and one of the firstthings we do in the first few days69000:46:07.699 --> 00:46:10.460is what does it mean to bemade in the image of God? It's69100:46:10.460 --> 00:46:15.500about identity. Okay, our identityis found in a creator. We didn't69200:46:15.500 --> 00:46:19.250just come here by accident. Sothe great thing is when people, and69300:46:19.489 --> 00:46:22.849we love these conversations. You know, obviously, as you and I as69400:46:22.929 --> 00:46:25.650father's, you know we look atour kids and you see similarity. Yeah,69500:46:25.769 --> 00:46:30.449right, they they they act acertain way. You know my oldest69600:46:30.449 --> 00:46:31.730son, we were just talking theother day. He's got the himen his69700:46:31.849 --> 00:46:36.320nose right, and so he's cursedwith a him in his days. And69800:46:36.719 --> 00:46:38.960you know, it's so you seea lot of the similarities. You see69900:46:39.880 --> 00:46:45.159my influence on my kids, hopefullyfor good, right, bad, but70000:46:45.199 --> 00:46:49.510it's a beautiful thing. But thethe but even more amazingly, is to70100:46:49.630 --> 00:46:52.510know that you and I have beenplaced here on earth, that we have70200:46:52.670 --> 00:46:57.630a creator, an uncaused first causeand eternal being, a supreme being that's70300:46:57.670 --> 00:47:04.019not contingent on anything that transcends spacetime in the continuum. That is imminent,70400:47:04.099 --> 00:47:08.219though, in creation. And sohere the Godhead and perfect unity,70500:47:08.380 --> 00:47:15.340father son, Holy Spirit, creates. Yeah, and he designs it's not.70600:47:15.579 --> 00:47:19.889And when people say God put effortin making us know, God doesn't70700:47:19.889 --> 00:47:22.969make effort in anything. God speaksand it's done. Yeah, and he70800:47:22.010 --> 00:47:28.489does it perfectly without mistakes. Soin his exhaustive knowledge he creates us and70900:47:28.570 --> 00:47:31.679his image, meaning God is spirit, were told in scripture. Okay,71000:47:32.480 --> 00:47:37.880so he is eternal in his beingand he is infinite, boundless. There's71100:47:37.880 --> 00:47:40.639nothing that he lacks. He doesn'timprove in his quality. But in making71200:47:40.880 --> 00:47:45.150man, he made us with emotion, as God has emotion. Okay,71300:47:45.190 --> 00:47:47.989being made in the image of Godis saying that we have intelligence, as71400:47:49.030 --> 00:47:52.869he's intelligent, that we have love, as he is love. Right,71500:47:52.550 --> 00:47:55.550that's being made an image of God. He gives us a soul, because71600:47:55.550 --> 00:48:00.539we both have a material aspect andan immaterial aspect. God does not have71700:48:00.659 --> 00:48:05.739any materialistic aspect to him. He'sa simple being, meaning he's not compartmentalized.71800:48:05.940 --> 00:48:09.739Right, he doesn't add and subtract, right from his being. We're71900:48:09.820 --> 00:48:14.289told that he's draped in a garmentof light. In First John Five were72000:48:14.329 --> 00:48:19.570told that that God cannot lie ormake mistakes. According to Hebrews, six72100:48:19.610 --> 00:48:22.329hundred and eighteen were told in James, Chapter One, or twenty seven,72200:48:22.369 --> 00:48:25.289that there's no sadd or variation oftourney, meaning you can't angle God.72300:48:25.489 --> 00:48:31.239Yeah, it dimensionally, Okay's boundless. He's eternal in his existence, but72400:48:31.400 --> 00:48:37.719he creates us in his image,meaning we reflect who he is in our72500:48:37.800 --> 00:48:43.030being. As we live and aswe breathe, we're reflecting who God is,72600:48:43.150 --> 00:48:45.670as we love, as we forgive, or reflecting who God is.72700:48:45.869 --> 00:48:52.190Yeah, and hopefully on this sideof heaven, as we live faithfully for72800:48:52.269 --> 00:48:54.070him. We know Christ as ourLord and Savior. I mean the Romans72900:48:54.150 --> 00:48:57.900ten nine. In ten says ifyou confess with your mouth that Jesus Lord,73000:48:57.940 --> 00:48:59.699you believe in your heart that Godraised him from the dead, you73100:48:59.739 --> 00:49:01.340shall be saved, and all whocall upon him have the right to become73200:49:01.340 --> 00:49:06.179a child of God. According toJohn One hundred twelve, we recognize now73300:49:06.380 --> 00:49:08.139in a fallen state, because Adamand Eve sinned and they fell short of73400:49:08.179 --> 00:49:13.929God and they were they experience threedeaths, spiritual, eternal and physical death.73500:49:14.369 --> 00:49:16.010And based on what we see increation, according to Romans Eight,73600:49:16.210 --> 00:49:21.409we're crumbling, things are decaying andthey're crying out to be renewed and restored.73700:49:22.130 --> 00:49:27.440So even though the image of Godhas been effaced in us because of73800:49:27.480 --> 00:49:31.920the fall of Adam. It's notcompletely erase because the still the goodness of73900:49:32.000 --> 00:49:37.519God, love, right, hope, forgiveness is still in us and to74000:49:37.750 --> 00:49:42.670love others as God has loved usis still reflected in us. So on74100:49:42.829 --> 00:49:45.349this side of Heaven, if weaccept Christ, we have eternal life with74200:49:45.469 --> 00:49:49.429him, and that's the fulfillment ofthe purpose that God has given us,74300:49:49.630 --> 00:49:52.940to make his name known and toglorify him, and all things according in74400:49:52.980 --> 00:49:55.179for screens thirty one. So sayingthat we're made an image of God is74500:49:55.179 --> 00:50:00.460saying we have a creator who lovesus and we reflect that love to him74600:50:00.460 --> 00:50:04.900and through his ability to love othersaround us. So it's not just a74700:50:05.739 --> 00:50:08.570mechanistic thing to say he's our creator, like we're a robot. Right,74800:50:08.849 --> 00:50:13.730he created us in his image freely. Therefore we have free will, which74900:50:13.769 --> 00:50:16.730is a perfect gift we you know, force love is a contradiction, right,75000:50:16.889 --> 00:50:21.250right. So when we say thatwe can freely choose right or wrong,75100:50:22.400 --> 00:50:24.840God gave us that ability, justlike in marriage, that you freely75200:50:24.920 --> 00:50:29.119love each other, you freely submitone to another. That is true love,75300:50:29.199 --> 00:50:30.760and where there's true love is truefreedom and there's true feeding, there's75400:50:30.760 --> 00:50:35.079true love. So being made animage of God, we are expressing that75500:50:35.280 --> 00:50:39.150freely when we make choices. Sothat's bearing witness that there is a deity75600:50:39.710 --> 00:50:45.949that transcends us, rather than justsaying the alternative would either be we've always75700:50:45.949 --> 00:50:50.539existed, which we know as false, or we came about randomly through revolutionary75800:50:50.579 --> 00:50:53.539means. Yeah, therefore, webear no image of anything outside the realm75900:50:53.579 --> 00:50:58.780of the natural causes. Therefore,there is true really then, no purpose76000:50:58.780 --> 00:51:01.139or no meaning. But me madean image of God. There is purpose76100:51:01.300 --> 00:51:06.489and there is meaning, because agod who has purpose, who has meaning,76200:51:06.570 --> 00:51:09.969meaning the fulfillment of it perfectly hasput that in each one of us.76300:51:10.010 --> 00:51:14.489Yeah, and that's why, whenwe say we're unique, that's that's76400:51:14.489 --> 00:51:16.570what that needs. We're all uniquelike everyone else. You're very unique day.76500:51:17.090 --> 00:51:21.599Thank you, but we appreciate allthose who joined us for this podcast.76600:51:21.639 --> 00:51:23.840If you want to connect with Jason, is that stand strong DOT ors.76700:51:23.920 --> 00:51:28.440Don't stand strong ministries dot ORG,stand strong miniature ministries dot Org.76800:51:28.559 --> 00:51:30.880You can contact him through there.Your email address is there, at least76900:51:30.880 --> 00:51:35.030a contact form is there. Andthen you had a you have you in77000:51:35.030 --> 00:51:37.630the Badams to put together. TheA thirty day devotional. Yeah, and77100:51:37.710 --> 00:51:39.389you version. Okay, everybody hasyou version. So if you have you77200:51:39.550 --> 00:51:44.030version and encourage people to check outthat plan. It's a thirty day.77300:51:44.150 --> 00:51:46.739First ten days love God, lovehis words. Second ten days is live77400:51:46.820 --> 00:51:50.980in community, okay. In thefinal ten days is lead as a voice77500:51:50.980 --> 00:51:53.139of truth. So it's a wayto help Christian stand strong wherever they're at.77600:51:53.179 --> 00:51:55.940Yeah, and you've got some stuffyou mentioned. Maybe I shouldn't mention77700:51:57.059 --> 00:51:59.780this, but I will. Comingout with love life is a partner ministry77800:52:00.380 --> 00:52:02.530with pro life apologetics and stuff likethat. That's coming out in the yeah,77900:52:02.530 --> 00:52:06.130that's gonna be coming to actually thisfall, two thousand and nineteen.78000:52:06.210 --> 00:52:09.849So if people want to have apro life course that they can go in78100:52:10.210 --> 00:52:14.849within like a less than an hour, we have a downloadable, steady guide.78200:52:14.849 --> 00:52:17.320I lay out the case for lifeand I give tactics and ways that78300:52:17.440 --> 00:52:22.039you can interact with an abortion advocate. One strengthen your particular beliefs as a78400:52:22.079 --> 00:52:28.559prolifer, but also engage in theand these conversations with other, you know,78500:52:28.679 --> 00:52:31.550people that, in this case,are supportive of abortion, but how78600:52:31.630 --> 00:52:37.309you can tackle and respectfully respond totheir arguments in a way that quiosity,78700:52:37.309 --> 00:52:40.590Daniel, is very effective and you'reseeing that the more people that eat get78800:52:40.670 --> 00:52:45.139equipped in our pro life apologetics andthey go out there and they use it,78900:52:45.659 --> 00:52:47.900they're winning people over. Yeah,that's good because in the end we're79000:52:47.940 --> 00:52:52.179saving lives in the process, right, and we're sharing the Gospel for all79100:52:52.219 --> 00:52:54.900eternity. Yeah, yeah, soconnect with him. Stand strong ministries dot79200:52:54.980 --> 00:52:59.250Org. You can connect with me, CHARLOTTE DOT cities for Life Dot Org.79300:53:00.050 --> 00:53:04.650Email addresses there in the contact form. And also we have a website79400:53:04.690 --> 00:53:07.849that I mentioned very often, whichis sidewalks for lifecom. Sidewalks, the79500:53:07.889 --> 00:53:13.159number four and lifecom, which reallyspeaks to the sidewalk counseling. It's the79600:53:13.280 --> 00:53:16.559train and quip and encourage. Weput articles out almost a weekly basis.79700:53:16.679 --> 00:53:21.239Me Or Vicky, he's normally hereon the podcast, writes an article about79800:53:21.239 --> 00:53:23.920pro life outreach at a local abortionclinic, and so connect with us.79900:53:24.000 --> 00:53:28.829They're at least check out resources thatare there. We appreciate all those who80000:53:29.110 --> 00:53:37.949who came and joined us for thispodcast. Use Milan, use give me.80100:53:52.820 --> 00:54:00.010It will cost me my life,but nothing's too precious. Inside