Reaching Out At Late Term Abortion Facilities

WEBVTT100:00:00.160 --> 00:00:08.000This was a very sympathetic piece ona man who dismembers living twenty week and,200:00:08.119 --> 00:00:15.000above babies. Yeah, and forthat to have been a sympathetic portrayal300:00:15.240 --> 00:00:21.920shows the power of good writing andgood storytelling right, and I think we400:00:21.960 --> 00:00:26.480all need to keep that in mindbecause we need to change the narrative.500:00:26.760 --> 00:00:32.039I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, and me,600:00:32.280 --> 00:00:38.039Lord, I am yours, Iam yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel700:00:38.039 --> 00:00:43.719Center pre life podcast, a podcastdesigned to equip, encourage and challenge you800:00:43.719 --> 00:00:47.560in pro life ministry, and alwayswith a focus on the Gospel. Stay900:00:47.600 --> 00:01:00.079tuned. I felt show Passih touchsyour home. Use Me. Welcome back1000:01:00.119 --> 00:01:04.079to the Gospel centered pro life podcast. We appreciate you guys joining us and,1100:01:04.200 --> 00:01:08.439as always, we'd appreciate if youguys would share this podcast with others.1200:01:08.519 --> 00:01:11.799We're going to share our email addressesat the end of this episode so1300:01:11.840 --> 00:01:15.519you can reach out to us because, as always, we'd like for you1400:01:15.560 --> 00:01:18.959to reach out if you have anyquestions, if you have any other topics1500:01:18.959 --> 00:01:22.760that you'd like for us to cover, suggestions for future podcast, we'd love1600:01:22.840 --> 00:01:26.079to do those and the podcast episodethat we're going to do today is going1700:01:26.079 --> 00:01:30.239to be based on someone reaching outwith some questions about sidewalk out reaching their1800:01:30.319 --> 00:01:34.879area. Just real quick, I'llintroduce myself. We've tried to do that1900:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.799in the most recent episodes just becausethere's some new people that are coming on2000:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.200and listening. So my name isDaniel Parks. I'm the director or the2100:01:42.200 --> 00:01:47.319West Coast Regional Shepherd for love life, so oversee our efforts on the west2200:01:47.319 --> 00:01:49.200coast. Even though I'm on theEast Coast, I'm actually out on the2300:01:49.200 --> 00:01:55.760west coast. A lot travel backand forth and I'm joined by Vicki Kessi2400:01:55.879 --> 00:02:00.079Org. Hey, there everyone,and I am a sidewalk missionary here in2500:02:00.200 --> 00:02:05.200Charlotte. have been doing this almosta decade, yeah, and these podcasts2600:02:05.239 --> 00:02:07.000for about two years. Yeah,and so, you know, to toot2700:02:07.080 --> 00:02:13.000our own horns and to let youguys know that we're like super official and2800:02:13.159 --> 00:02:17.360we know everything about sidewalk ministry.Absolutely. We've been doing this for twenty2900:02:17.360 --> 00:02:21.759five combined years. Yeah, right, one time, and we're super humble3000:02:22.039 --> 00:02:24.800about that. Right now, weare super humble, like even though we've3100:02:24.840 --> 00:02:30.080been doing this for a while combined, twenty five years experience we're still learning3200:02:30.080 --> 00:02:35.400stuff, like every every day andtime we're out there, something new.3300:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.080We get to interact with you guysthat are listening and you throw out suggestions3400:02:38.159 --> 00:02:43.840to us and questions to us andwe learned stuff from you guys. So,3500:02:44.120 --> 00:02:46.439to be honest, like we arehumble to be able to serve you3600:02:46.439 --> 00:02:50.919guys in this way and to speakinto your situation, speak into your city3700:02:50.960 --> 00:02:57.639and the sidewalk out reach ministry there. But we're also we realize that maybe3800:02:57.680 --> 00:03:02.400if you view us as experts,you've been duped because we pretend to be3900:03:02.439 --> 00:03:07.039experts. We play experts on apodcast, in a ministry like this,4000:03:07.080 --> 00:03:10.639they're just there. No real experts. There is always something that is going4100:03:10.680 --> 00:03:14.039to throw you for a loop prettymuch every day. Yeah, we day,4200:03:14.039 --> 00:03:16.680you work, and that's why Ialways say yeah, in the trainings4300:03:16.680 --> 00:03:19.759that we do and stuff, it'slike, if you want to know,4400:03:20.280 --> 00:03:25.080I caught the super duper top secrettrick, uhh, to being effective on4500:03:25.120 --> 00:03:28.960the sidewalk right, you know whatit is? Wiki beyond the sidewalk?4600:03:29.000 --> 00:03:31.120I don't know. No, that'snot it. Nice tribe, but that4700:03:31.159 --> 00:03:38.879was wrong. The super duper topsecret, secret, secret tip to be4800:03:38.919 --> 00:03:40.879effective on the sidewalk. Oh,be in the Lord, be in the4900:03:40.879 --> 00:03:46.840word. How about walk with Jesus? Men, walk with Jesus. That5000:03:46.919 --> 00:03:49.719includes being a prayer, being inthe word. Yeah, but we do5100:03:49.800 --> 00:03:52.360think that we have some value toadd you guys. We do think we5200:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.879can take some of our experiences andjust share him, share them on this5300:03:55.919 --> 00:04:00.280podcast. That's what we intend todo. So in this episode I'll let5400:04:00.319 --> 00:04:05.520you introduce the topic, Vicki.Okay, well, this did come from5500:04:05.520 --> 00:04:13.560a counselor who is working or surfingat a facility where they only do late5600:04:13.719 --> 00:04:16.800term abortion. Yeah, and Ididn't know there was such a facility.5700:04:16.800 --> 00:04:25.360It's in Boulder, Colorado, andI relatively famous abortionist. Warn her famous,5800:04:25.360 --> 00:04:28.839infamous, that's a better word.Warren Warren hern is his name,5900:04:29.079 --> 00:04:33.759and I guess us, the LaTimes wrote recently wrote an article on him6000:04:33.800 --> 00:04:38.600and then, I believe, themissionary saw that article and found out,6100:04:38.639 --> 00:04:42.560wow, this is this is thefacility where I'm going to be serving as6200:04:42.560 --> 00:04:49.959a sidewalk missionary or counselor, andso she sent us the article that the6300:04:50.040 --> 00:04:55.800La Times wrote and asked if wewere familiar with this. Sent us a6400:04:55.879 --> 00:05:02.560rebuttal from a pro life thinks liveaction. It was like action. And6500:05:02.560 --> 00:05:08.720and then said, given that thisis only late term abortions, would this6600:05:08.959 --> 00:05:15.279altar how you would speak to thewomen and your strategy? And we answered6700:05:15.399 --> 00:05:19.720separately, Daniel and I, inin letters. I've written an article that6800:05:19.839 --> 00:05:25.600includes roughly both of our our answers, little bit different. In many ways6900:05:25.639 --> 00:05:29.319we agreed, but we had someslight differences. But also I did a7000:05:29.360 --> 00:05:32.399little bit further research. I didread both of these articles. I recommend7100:05:32.399 --> 00:05:38.160everybody read them. And and thenI did a little bit further research on7200:05:38.800 --> 00:05:44.319why people come for a later termabortion, because that's important to know.7300:05:44.920 --> 00:05:48.839Yeah, and that's what how thisarticle developed in then this podcast developed.7400:05:49.000 --> 00:05:54.399was trying to add it not onlyadequately answered that missionaries question, but then7500:05:54.439 --> 00:06:00.199someone else wrote us in a verysimilar situation and said what would you say?7600:06:00.240 --> 00:06:04.759That maybe as unique from what youwould say to someone in a early7700:06:05.079 --> 00:06:10.079term. Yeah, abortion. Sothat's how it Develta. Yeah, and7800:06:10.079 --> 00:06:15.680we had talked about this a coupleof episodes ago when we talked about getting7900:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.120in the mindset. The encouragement inthat podcast was we need to we need8000:06:19.199 --> 00:06:21.800to try the best we can toenter into the mindset of the women that8100:06:21.800 --> 00:06:27.800were ministering to so that we canunderstand their perspective and accurately speak into their8200:06:27.839 --> 00:06:31.519situation. Right, I mentioned thislittle bit kind of the interaction that we8300:06:31.560 --> 00:06:38.279had yes the lady there in Coloradoand that the mindset could be different.8400:06:39.000 --> 00:06:42.680So this is a more in depthlook at that. Like what is that?8500:06:42.759 --> 00:06:46.279What is the mindset of a womanthat's coming for late term abortion?8600:06:46.360 --> 00:06:50.120Yeah, how would we tweak ourlanguage or what would we focus on?8700:06:50.199 --> 00:06:55.079Because you depending on the situation,again, whether it's a late term abortion8800:06:55.199 --> 00:06:58.079or whatever the situation might be.I mean, I'm even looking at the8900:06:58.079 --> 00:07:01.399situation where if you're talking to someonewho's taking the abortion pill versus someone who9000:07:01.399 --> 00:07:04.759has a surgical abortion, is goingin for a surgical abortion, there's a9100:07:04.759 --> 00:07:09.759cut general framework is the three talkingpoints, but there's a couple of things9200:07:09.800 --> 00:07:13.800that I'm going to say to theabortion pill person that I wouldn't say to9300:07:13.879 --> 00:07:16.600the surgical abortion person and vice versa. Right, correct. And so just9400:07:16.639 --> 00:07:20.399there's a couple things to consider andas we're talking about late term abortions,9500:07:20.399 --> 00:07:24.319there's a couple things to consider.Yeah, in the series. Yes,9600:07:24.399 --> 00:07:29.439so in that article, one ofthe things that right off the bat they9700:07:29.480 --> 00:07:31.639met. I well, the articlewhere I tried to find out the mindset9800:07:31.680 --> 00:07:36.839of the woman. So try tofind out facts about late term abortions in9900:07:36.879 --> 00:07:42.000the mindset of the women, theyterm abortion is a is kind of a10000:07:42.120 --> 00:07:45.399term that they don't recommend you evenuse, right, because he doesn't really10100:07:45.399 --> 00:07:48.160have a lot of meaning. Whatis a late term abortion? So in10200:07:48.199 --> 00:07:54.399this article it it talked about abortionsafter twenty weeks, right. Yeah,10300:07:54.399 --> 00:07:58.839so, and it's essentially third trumMster abortion is socially essentially this a little10400:07:58.879 --> 00:08:03.519bit before the third term. Butbut most abortion centers, I don't know10500:08:03.560 --> 00:08:09.199even know if it's most. Iknow the abortion centers here in Charlotte are10600:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.680up to about twenty weeks. Yeah, and and that's what a lot of10700:08:11.720 --> 00:08:16.839people are going to be coming in, you know, serving at. Although10800:08:16.879 --> 00:08:20.160most abortions occur in the first trimester. Yeah, but there are women that10900:08:20.199 --> 00:08:26.680come in that third trimester and Ithink that most people believe, and I11000:08:26.680 --> 00:08:30.879think you mentioned, that it's usuallydue to feed, a l abnormality of11100:08:31.000 --> 00:08:35.960some sort. But I wanted tofind out specifically why people come for late11200:08:35.039 --> 00:08:41.519term abortion in this article. Ithink it was really interesting. Why,11300:08:41.559 --> 00:08:46.320the main reasons, and it wasa study, and of the main reasons11400:08:46.320 --> 00:08:52.120why women over forty, over twentyweeks, come for an abortion? Yeah,11500:08:52.159 --> 00:08:54.960and they may have faced more thanone of the following issues, which11600:08:54.039 --> 00:09:01.279I'm going to go over, butthey they reported facing these issues and this11700:09:01.360 --> 00:09:05.519is why they were coming for anabortion. Yeah, so they delayed the11800:09:05.519 --> 00:09:13.600decision to abort because of these particularcorrect. Okay, correct. So first11900:09:13.639 --> 00:09:18.679of all, the the first Idon't know item, was any barrier,12000:09:18.720 --> 00:09:24.240if there was any barrier present,thirty one percent of the women said that12100:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.679there was some sort of a barrier, okay, and a barrier between them12200:09:28.720 --> 00:09:33.440and having the abortion. Correct,okay, correct. So now that they12300:09:33.639 --> 00:09:43.240don't specifically in this article ever listfetal abnormality, okay, or health risk12400:09:43.440 --> 00:09:48.399with the mom okay, but thearticle did point out that that is those12500:09:48.399 --> 00:09:52.639are both main issues for people inlate term abortions. Not not necessarily the12600:09:52.679 --> 00:09:56.120only issue, maybe not an issueat all. Yeah, but those do12700:09:56.240 --> 00:10:03.320occur and and a question that cameto my mind right away was why wait12800:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.799if there's a maternal risk? Whydid they wait? Yeah, and one12900:10:05.799 --> 00:10:11.919of the things the article pointed outis some maternal risk don't show up till13000:10:11.960 --> 00:10:16.240the third term right, which Ihadn't really thought about. High Blood Pressure,13100:10:16.240 --> 00:10:20.519pretty clamsy CLAMPSIA, all those sortsof things. So it's good to13200:10:20.600 --> 00:10:22.799know that. But any barrier?Thirty one percent of them said that there13300:10:22.879 --> 00:10:28.399was some sort of a barrier preventingthem from getting an earlier abortion. Forty13400:10:28.480 --> 00:10:35.279percent of them said raising money forthe procedure and related costs. Now that's13500:10:35.399 --> 00:10:41.919interesting because a third term abortion isthousands of dollars right, very expensive.13600:10:41.519 --> 00:10:48.240So that means they couldn't even affordless expensive abortion. Yeah, and had13700:10:48.279 --> 00:10:54.600to go about somehow raising the money. Yeah, forty percent not knowing about13800:10:54.639 --> 00:10:56.639the pregnancy. Twenty percent. Again, a lot of us will look at13900:10:56.639 --> 00:11:01.159that and say what, they don'tknow? They're twenty weeks pregnant. They14000:11:01.159 --> 00:11:03.360don't know it. I'll tell youthere was one time I went on the14100:11:03.440 --> 00:11:07.480RV there was a woman didn't evenknow she was pregnant on our mobile ultra14200:11:07.519 --> 00:11:11.159sound rvy. She didn't even knowshe was pregnant. She was thirty two14300:11:11.399 --> 00:11:15.399weeks. Yeah, so it happens, but it does happen. Twenty percent14400:11:15.440 --> 00:11:18.279of them didn't know about the pregnancy. Yeah, by the way, I14500:11:18.360 --> 00:11:22.080want y'all to keep in mind asI'm listing all these things, these are14600:11:22.159 --> 00:11:28.120not fetal abnormality or maternal risk.These are the same things that we sometimes14700:11:28.120 --> 00:11:33.200hear from the first term. Yeah, abortion, their doubt, difficulties securing14800:11:33.320 --> 00:11:39.799insurance coverage. Forty one percent.Now, that one made me gag,14900:11:39.840 --> 00:11:43.720because that means that some people doget insurance coverage for an abortion. Yeah,15000:11:43.759 --> 00:11:46.960and if you don't know that,you need to know that. That's15100:11:46.039 --> 00:11:52.960kind of sad as yeah, thatinsurance pays for abortions. Forty percent.15200:11:52.039 --> 00:11:56.480This is key. I think thismight be the most important one. Trouble15300:11:56.639 --> 00:12:01.559deciding about the abortion. Forty percentend. That means forty percent of the15400:12:01.559 --> 00:12:07.279women coming for a late term abortionstill have conflict in their heart. We15500:12:07.519 --> 00:12:13.480know we can speak to that.Yeah, thirty eight percent did not know15600:12:13.519 --> 00:12:16.960where to go for an abortion.That floors me. Yeah, that's a15700:12:16.960 --> 00:12:22.399big percentage. There's some abortion centers. I advertise they're all over the place,15800:12:22.559 --> 00:12:26.679but thirty eight percent don't know whereto go. Yeah, difficult difficulty15900:12:26.759 --> 00:12:33.200getting to an abortion se facility.Twenty seven percent disagreeing about the abortion with16000:12:33.240 --> 00:12:39.639the man involved. Twenty percent.Yeah, so, while fetal abnormality maternal16100:12:39.720 --> 00:12:45.799risk are big reasons for a lateterm abortion, they are hardly the only16200:12:45.840 --> 00:12:52.720reason, sometimes not even the mostimportant reason, and that's very important for16300:12:52.320 --> 00:12:58.679people who are serving at those facilitiesto know you can speak to all these16400:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.399other issues, not just to thefetal abnormality and internal risk. Yeah.16500:13:03.840 --> 00:13:11.600So, so this this this abortionistWarren Hearne, something that I really spoke16600:13:11.639 --> 00:13:13.759to me as I read that article, and I would recommend that everybody read16700:13:13.799 --> 00:13:22.799that article. They present him sosympathetically that he comes across as a victim16800:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.879and a hero. Yeah, ofcourse he's. He's a victim, not16900:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.559the baby, cit he kills theirabord exactly. He's a hero because he17000:13:30.639 --> 00:13:35.000gives a woman her life back orwhatever. Yeah, ever, yeah,17100:13:35.080 --> 00:13:41.399they deem that he's fighting for thesepoor woman. Right, and never the17200:13:41.480 --> 00:13:48.399article never once mentions the murdered babies. Of course, course. But but17300:13:48.440 --> 00:13:52.080what struck me as a writer,and I think it will strike you,17400:13:52.200 --> 00:13:58.240Daniel, because you were always talkingabout the value of stories, this was17500:13:58.639 --> 00:14:05.519a a very sympathetic piece on aman who dismembers living twenty week and above17600:14:05.639 --> 00:14:13.279babies. Yeah, and for thatto have been a sympathetic portrayal shows the17700:14:13.279 --> 00:14:18.679power of good riding and good storytelling, right, and I think we all17800:14:18.720 --> 00:14:24.799need to keep that in mind becausewe need to change the narrative in our17900:14:24.840 --> 00:14:31.799stories. Stories are powerful. Yeah, our stories can equally paint the truth18000:14:31.879 --> 00:14:35.720of what happens to that baby,yeah, and the devastation to the mother,18100:14:35.919 --> 00:14:39.759and all of us need to beaware of aware of that and how18200:14:39.799 --> 00:14:43.799to do that. Well. Yeah. Yeah, so the other article live18300:14:43.840 --> 00:14:48.039action to bunks the time's peace,and I think it's important for us to18400:14:48.039 --> 00:14:52.639read that so that we have thebalance of the truth bumped up against this18500:14:52.799 --> 00:14:56.559very well written la La Times story. Yeah, but anyway, you gave18600:14:56.600 --> 00:15:05.360the your feedback to the missionary inOregon, in bolder, who wrote tested18700:15:05.639 --> 00:15:09.200US Colorado. I'm sorry that thatasked us what do we do and I18800:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.440thought your feedback was really good.So maybe you could talk about the things18900:15:13.440 --> 00:15:20.240that you mentioned. Yeah. Somy point was that the women that we're19000:15:20.240 --> 00:15:28.639seeing that come in for an earlyfirst trimester even second trimester abortion are typically19100:15:28.720 --> 00:15:35.039like and you know, we've seenwomen who come in who are amazed.19200:15:35.039 --> 00:15:37.120When we we do, by God'sgrace, get to show them an ultrasound19300:15:37.120 --> 00:15:41.279and they see their baby at nineeight, nine weeks, got a heartbeat.19400:15:41.720 --> 00:15:45.600They're amazing. They'll say it's ababy right. So there's this ability,19500:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.519in a sense, even though there'sreally no excuse for it because the19600:15:48.519 --> 00:15:52.240technology we have, but there's thisability to kind of disconnect themselves from the19700:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.440reality that they're carrying a baby becauseI don't yet feel that baby. It's19800:15:56.480 --> 00:16:02.519not a clear maybe in their bodiesthere some changes, but they're not a19900:16:02.559 --> 00:16:04.759clear change in our don't have ababy bump and that sort of thing.20000:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.320When you get into, of course, the third trimester, but even like20100:16:08.320 --> 00:16:11.919twenty weeks. We all know andhave seen people who are pregnant at twenty20200:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.080weeks. You can see their baby. Yeah, you can see that baby20300:16:15.200 --> 00:16:19.879kick. They can feel the babykick right. So there's no denying that20400:16:19.919 --> 00:16:25.759it's a baby at that point.So my response was one like we certainly20500:16:25.799 --> 00:16:30.600can appeal to that mother and talkto her about the fact that her baby20600:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.480is a human being, that it'sa human life, but she already knows20700:16:33.559 --> 00:16:38.519that likely and especially if she's alreadyhad because when a woman does find out20800:16:38.559 --> 00:16:41.120she's pregnant, I'll say she wantedto get pregnant, but then she finds20900:16:41.120 --> 00:16:45.559out she's pregnant with a baby thathas some feet or outdoor abnormality or some21000:16:45.679 --> 00:16:49.240issue, she's going to go formultiple ultrasounds. Like the doctor. We21100:16:49.279 --> 00:16:53.120went through this with our twins.So we have twin twin girls, and21200:16:53.159 --> 00:16:59.159they're precious. But at like twelveweeks my wife was twelve weeks pregnans.21300:16:59.200 --> 00:17:03.200We found out, I think maybeit was nine weeks, that she was21400:17:03.240 --> 00:17:07.680having twins. About twelve weeks mywife woke up in a pool of blood21500:17:07.720 --> 00:17:10.519and we thought we were losing thebabies. Thought she's miscaring. By God's21600:17:10.519 --> 00:17:15.759grace she did not and they livedand continued. And about twenty weeks she21700:17:15.759 --> 00:17:18.599had an ultra sound because we havetwins. They do regular ultrasound. So21800:17:18.759 --> 00:17:22.759twins is sort of an abnormality right. It's sort of a rare they considered21900:17:22.799 --> 00:17:27.160a high risk any any situation wherea woman has twins, it's a high22000:17:27.240 --> 00:17:33.920risk situation for her in for thebabies, and so she had multiple ultra22100:17:33.960 --> 00:17:36.839sounds and then it like nineteen ortwenty weeks. There were some issues.22200:17:36.920 --> 00:17:40.319One of the babies was smaller thanthe other and so they did an ultrasound,22300:17:40.400 --> 00:17:44.319they ended up, we end upget an MRI, all these things.22400:17:44.359 --> 00:17:47.759Now I'm saying that from our experiences. Like you've seen multiple ultrasounds,22500:17:48.039 --> 00:17:51.279right, if there's some some issueswith that baby, they're not just going22600:17:51.359 --> 00:17:55.880to hopefully at least they're not justgoing to do one ultrasound and say you22700:17:55.880 --> 00:17:57.559got problems with this child, youneed to have an abortion. Now,22800:17:57.599 --> 00:18:02.799some doctors probably would would do that, but for the most part doctors even22900:18:02.839 --> 00:18:04.440that are pro abortion or probably notgoing to do that, especially if it's23000:18:04.480 --> 00:18:07.599with a woman who wanted the child. Does that Make Sen exactly? Yes.23100:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.200Yeah, so they're going to domultiple ultrasound. So there's not like23200:18:11.279 --> 00:18:15.279if I'm standing in front of aplace where, you know, they're killing23300:18:15.279 --> 00:18:21.000babies twenty weeks and above, Iwould mention the ultrasound, but they've probably23400:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.799already had an ultrasound, right,and so probably what I will mention is23500:18:25.119 --> 00:18:29.200you probably saw the ultrasound of yourbaby. Didn't you see that? Your23600:18:29.279 --> 00:18:30.880child is alive. You know,I want to remind them what they've already23700:18:30.880 --> 00:18:33.759seen rather than hey, come overhere, we have a free ultrasound for23800:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.279you now. If I had thatavailable. I would certainly offer that.23900:18:37.559 --> 00:18:42.440I would always talk about a secondopinion. I would always say did you24000:18:42.440 --> 00:18:45.640get a second opinion to me,and I think I'm pretty sure I responded24100:18:45.720 --> 00:18:49.359to the responded to that email inthis way. Yeah, that having a24200:18:49.400 --> 00:18:55.079high risk doctor and a doctor thatis willing to give a second opinion to24300:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.359be that would be on the topof my list to find. I would24400:18:57.400 --> 00:19:02.799be finding that high risk doctor.It would. And let me just interjecting24500:19:02.960 --> 00:19:07.559in there, make sure it's apro life high risk because we know that24600:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.319there are high risk doctors who willthen just say go ahead and kill the24700:19:11.319 --> 00:19:17.640baby because that is the least likelyto be sued over response and there their24800:19:17.720 --> 00:19:19.599risk converse. So be sure it'sa pro life high risk doctor. Yeah,24900:19:19.680 --> 00:19:23.680yeah, no doubt. Yeah,and so some of the things that25000:19:23.720 --> 00:19:26.559I encourage her to do is,yes, I would use the three talking25100:19:26.640 --> 00:19:32.599points and I would talk about outresources and things like that. I would25200:19:32.640 --> 00:19:37.319talk certainly about the humanity of thebaby. That's that's where I would probably25300:19:37.319 --> 00:19:41.480rest most of my words and thehumanity the baby. Yeah, and and25400:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.640their accountability to accountability to God.I would be reminding them of what they've25500:19:45.680 --> 00:19:49.720already seen, because again, they'velikely already seen an ultra sound. I25600:19:49.759 --> 00:19:53.680would be reminding them of what they'realready feeling. You feel your baby kick?25700:19:53.759 --> 00:20:02.079Yeah, now I haven't dug intothe numbers that that you shared earlier25800:20:02.079 --> 00:20:07.279about these percentages of why people comefor late term abortions. Obviously, if25900:20:07.319 --> 00:20:10.039you do the math, the percentagesdon't come out to be a hundred percent26000:20:10.119 --> 00:20:12.279because because they could have more thanone of those factors. They music a26100:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.960point, right, exactly. Mypoint is that there's probably a compounded,26200:20:17.319 --> 00:20:21.079right, yes, of each ofthese things or some level of each of26300:20:21.079 --> 00:20:25.559these things. So kind of whatI'm getting at is, do people have26400:20:25.640 --> 00:20:29.440late term abortions because their baby hasdown syndrome? Yes, they do,26500:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.200but probably not just because of that, right. There's probably these other things26600:20:33.400 --> 00:20:38.359and so trouble deciding about the abortion. So maybe they've found out at twelve26700:20:38.400 --> 00:20:41.720weeks. I mean they can doblood tests now, yeah, to find26800:20:41.759 --> 00:20:45.759out whether you're not your baby hasdown syndrome or the percentage that your baby26900:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.759is likely to have down syndrome orsomething, which I think is absurd,27000:20:48.759 --> 00:20:49.960but they you can do that,right, so you can find out a27100:20:51.079 --> 00:20:53.440like you know, teve fourteen weeks. Yeah, if your baby has down27200:20:53.480 --> 00:20:56.680syndrome, and some of these womencould have been going back and forth in27300:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.519their mind of whether or not theyshould do the abortion, get and advice27400:21:00.599 --> 00:21:04.599from people, and then, ofcourse it pushes the the baby on end27500:21:04.640 --> 00:21:08.240to twenty weeks. So they rightbecomes a yeah, it's a third trimester27600:21:08.319 --> 00:21:12.640abortion and I agree with where you'regoing. But I have met women who27700:21:12.640 --> 00:21:18.880are twenty weeks pregnant who have nothad any fetal or maternal abnormality or risk27800:21:19.200 --> 00:21:25.559mentioned, but just cannot decide.They know it's wrong, they just are27900:21:25.680 --> 00:21:30.039filled with conflict. Yeah, andthat's why they're now entering into, you28000:21:30.079 --> 00:21:33.359know, the second and third trimesterand still haven't done it. Yeah,28100:21:33.359 --> 00:21:40.599so there can be conflict without afactor of some sort of risk grabumality.28200:21:40.759 --> 00:21:45.799Yeah, absolutely, speaking about thekind of the health risk of the woman.28300:21:45.920 --> 00:21:52.960Yeah, especially when they're in youknow, the twenty four to twenty28400:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.720eight week really up into twenty eight, when you get closer to thirty weeks,28500:21:56.839 --> 00:22:00.440babies like babies have been born attwenty four weeks, twenty six weeks28600:22:00.599 --> 00:22:04.279that have survived. Yeah, nowit it's not, of course, the28700:22:04.319 --> 00:22:08.839best scenario. But you would haveto ask yourself, okay, if the28800:22:08.839 --> 00:22:14.880woman has pre ECLAMPSIA and she's twentyfive weeks, twenty four weeks along,28900:22:15.960 --> 00:22:19.119why would they abhort the Child?Why would they kill the child and then29000:22:19.200 --> 00:22:25.039have the child delivered? Because isit would in the process generally be the29100:22:25.039 --> 00:22:27.799same. You can leave the childalive and deliver the child. Do you29200:22:27.839 --> 00:22:32.359have to kill the child in thedeliver the child to stop the symptoms of29300:22:32.400 --> 00:22:37.039preclamsy? And you don't, right. And so to me it's like it's29400:22:37.319 --> 00:22:40.759it doesn't make sense. Why notjust deliver the Child? Is it that29500:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.359this person's looking for a justification tokill the child? Yeah, so that29600:22:45.359 --> 00:22:49.160that to me doesn't make sense.And again, I know that that's I29700:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.160want to say this and be kindof careful what I'm saying, but no29800:22:52.279 --> 00:23:00.319one goes about to have a lateterm abortion or, you know, later29900:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.720in the second trimester, in thirdtrimester abortions, and does it kind of30000:23:03.759 --> 00:23:07.480on a whim. Right, it'spretty well thought out for the most part,30100:23:07.680 --> 00:23:11.000right. Yeah, and it's notjust money, it is a big30200:23:11.039 --> 00:23:15.000expense. Yeah, when you're gettinginto the third trimester, you're talking like30300:23:15.039 --> 00:23:21.359Tenzero for the abortion proceed right,and so there's there's got to be a30400:23:21.359 --> 00:23:26.279compounded amount of things going on rightand things that are, you know,30500:23:26.519 --> 00:23:34.400similar but maybe even more traumatic,more stressful than people that have an early30600:23:34.559 --> 00:23:41.359term abortion. Yeah, and sounderstanding that, understanding that these we see30700:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.359it all the time. We seewomen walking into the latrobe abortion center,30800:23:45.400 --> 00:23:49.720other abortion centers, the most mostof the abortion centers we minister at are30900:23:49.759 --> 00:23:53.319going to be twenty weeks in before, like you said, right, and31000:23:53.359 --> 00:23:56.279we see people going in flipping usoff. It's not a baby. You31100:23:56.319 --> 00:24:00.759know, I don't imagine you seea lot of that at these late term31200:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.920abortion facilities. I don't imagine yousee a lot of people coming out getting31300:24:03.960 --> 00:24:08.240in your face. I don't imagineyou do. Now I will say,31400:24:08.240 --> 00:24:12.559I'll put it on you guys whoreach out at those abortion facilities. Maybe31500:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.680you do see that a lot.Maybe the attitude is different, but I'm31600:24:15.720 --> 00:24:22.480imagining in attitude that's more somber,that's more broken, and so there's a31700:24:22.519 --> 00:24:26.240way to reach out to those people. HMM. Yeah, I think that31800:24:26.240 --> 00:24:33.279that is a very important point thatyou just raised, because I think there31900:24:33.319 --> 00:24:37.319may be doctors who just think thesimpler thing to do than delivering an early32000:24:37.400 --> 00:24:44.440baby is to just tell them toabort the baby. But they could in32100:24:44.519 --> 00:24:48.160most cases, maybe in all cases, in a late term abortion, they32200:24:48.279 --> 00:24:52.400do not need to kill the baby. They could deliver the baby and the32300:24:52.400 --> 00:25:00.160baby may or may not make it, but there is a choice to kill32400:25:00.160 --> 00:25:03.359one human being. Yeah, toreduce whatever the risk to the to the32500:25:03.359 --> 00:25:07.480MOM. Late term abortions are risky. Yeah, the MOM. There is32600:25:07.519 --> 00:25:12.519a lot that can go wrong inin a late term abortion. That is32700:25:14.240 --> 00:25:18.519it is not a small risk factor. Yeah, so I think that it's32800:25:18.559 --> 00:25:22.839important to point that out. Yeah, but undoubtedly there it might be the32900:25:22.880 --> 00:25:29.000doctor that she is seen who isgoing with what he sees as the least33000:25:29.160 --> 00:25:33.400risky right option, but it couldbe well be her having more than just33100:25:33.480 --> 00:25:38.880the concern about whatever abnormality. Yeah, being concerned about those other issues.33200:25:40.519 --> 00:25:45.160So I liked what you said alsowhen when you wrote that letter, that33300:25:45.640 --> 00:25:49.279of the convenience factor. Right.I'm not sure that you mentioned that.33400:25:49.599 --> 00:25:53.319And Yeah, talking about the mindset, right. Yeah. So, yeah,33500:25:55.000 --> 00:26:00.519it's a very inconvenient thing to goin for a late term abortion.33600:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.480Yeah, sure, I mean,especially when you've got people that are flying33700:26:03.559 --> 00:26:07.920to Colorado there. I mean I'msure there are local people, but people33800:26:08.000 --> 00:26:14.799do fly to Colorado. Colorado's adestination for late term abortions. I believe.33900:26:15.920 --> 00:26:18.720Massachusetts or Maryland, either one ofthose, maybe both of those,34000:26:19.400 --> 00:26:23.119are places where people go for lateterm abortions. And then New Mexico's another34100:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.559place, yeah, where people gofor late term abortions. There's like these34200:26:26.640 --> 00:26:30.839kind of late term abortion destinations.There's a documentary, it came out a34300:26:30.839 --> 00:26:36.720couple of years ago about late termabortion facilities. I forget the name of34400:26:36.720 --> 00:26:38.640the documentary. Maybe if I findit I can put a link in the34500:26:38.640 --> 00:26:44.400show notes, but it was reallyis really informative and as a matter of34600:26:44.440 --> 00:26:48.880fact, I kind of rewinded thatvideos. kind of went back a little34700:26:48.880 --> 00:26:52.920bit on it because as they wereshowing the office, I noticed on the34800:26:52.960 --> 00:26:56.400wall there was like a payment schedulefor there was like prices. So I34900:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.319went back and kind of like zoomedinto it because I wanted to see what35000:27:00.480 --> 00:27:03.599is is, and that's where Isaw the tenzero dollars for I think it35100:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.240was like twenty eight weeks or thirtyweeks or something like that. I can't35200:27:07.279 --> 00:27:12.000remember, but they kind of havehow much it cost to do abortions at35300:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.200those stages. Yeah, and so, yeah, that's that's very telling.35400:27:15.240 --> 00:27:22.359But you do have the convenience factorwith early term abortions, where it's just35500:27:22.480 --> 00:27:26.400more convenient to go have an abortionthan to let a baby take over your35600:27:26.440 --> 00:27:30.160body, to have your work schedulethrown off for or whatever. And I35700:27:30.200 --> 00:27:36.319don't mean to say that every womanthat has an abortion is doing it for35800:27:36.359 --> 00:27:40.519the sake of convenience, because it'snot convenient to go to the abortion clinic35900:27:40.559 --> 00:27:44.240and wait for three hours and dodo all that stuff and then they're subjecting36000:27:44.279 --> 00:27:48.759their bodies to, you know,some pretty pretty harsh stuff. So I36100:27:48.759 --> 00:27:52.359don't mean to say that it's justconvenient in the senses easy, but it36200:27:52.440 --> 00:27:56.440is more convenient just to have yourabortion one day then to raise a child36300:27:56.440 --> 00:27:59.799for eighteen years. We hear thata lot. Right, you're going to36400:27:59.880 --> 00:28:02.279raise this baby. I don't wantto raise this baby for eighteen years.36500:28:02.359 --> 00:28:06.160Right. What are you saying?You don't want to be inconvenienced. Right.36600:28:06.200 --> 00:28:08.119And so my point is with thelate term abortion thing is that people36700:28:08.160 --> 00:28:12.200are not coming there for the sakeof convenience. They've already went through several36800:28:12.240 --> 00:28:17.359months of the pregnancy already. Theirbody is already been subjected to what a36900:28:17.400 --> 00:28:22.799one's body goes through when she's pregnant, and so that factors is likely not37000:28:22.880 --> 00:28:29.559they're are not as prominent in thesesituations. And again I'm imagining the just37100:28:29.599 --> 00:28:33.480the faces of the women are moresomber, more like. You know,37200:28:33.640 --> 00:28:37.640this is not something that they're doingglibly. Right, will say right,37300:28:37.640 --> 00:28:41.920and so I wonder if you dohave a harder time convincing them. I37400:28:41.920 --> 00:28:47.880think that is possible. Yeah,in in I imagine there's more fear.37500:28:48.319 --> 00:28:52.440Talking about their mindset. They're probablyright fearful, because they really are afraid37600:28:52.480 --> 00:28:56.079for their life or for for whatis going to be the baby's life.37700:28:56.160 --> 00:29:00.440Yeah, and and so again,going back to that, one of the37800:29:00.440 --> 00:29:04.680original points I'm made, testimony,telling stories. There are women who have37900:29:04.759 --> 00:29:10.799made it through high risk pregnancies,many there are many women who have had38000:29:10.839 --> 00:29:15.279a special needs child and could testifyto the joy of that child. There's38100:29:15.359 --> 00:29:19.440many women who have delivered a babywho is only going to live for a38200:29:19.480 --> 00:29:25.359few minutes, yeah, or maybehours after birth, who say that that38300:29:25.440 --> 00:29:30.839time was so precious and it wasworth going through the pregnancy in the sorrow38400:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.680to have that baby for those fewhours or whatever time that they had.38500:29:34.720 --> 00:29:40.640And so those testimonies, I thinkwe should all know about them and especially38600:29:40.720 --> 00:29:44.920if this is a the type offacility you're serving at, being able to38700:29:44.920 --> 00:29:49.759tell those stories and give those womenhelp and hope, hope that, even38800:29:49.759 --> 00:29:55.960though this is a terrible situation,that there is even there is even joy38900:29:56.039 --> 00:30:02.599possible in bringing that baby you know, I'll testimonies are a powerful way for39000:30:02.720 --> 00:30:06.720any situation that you're dealing with.If you have a corresponding testimony of your39100:30:06.759 --> 00:30:10.160story, if you have a personaltestimony, yeah, or testimony that you39200:30:10.160 --> 00:30:15.519can share somebody you know or somethingyou've read or video. It's just powerful39300:30:15.519 --> 00:30:19.559because it really overcomes the you know, all of the lies that there can't39400:30:19.559 --> 00:30:23.519be any good that comes out ofthis bad situation. Testimonies show that,39500:30:23.880 --> 00:30:27.599well, God's not a respective personsand is if he was there with this39600:30:27.599 --> 00:30:33.440woman in her story. Yeah,and there's a positive outcome here. It39700:30:33.480 --> 00:30:37.960brings hope. Right, there canthere can be a similar testimony in your39800:30:37.039 --> 00:30:45.119situation, right, right. Whatreading that one article helped me to know39900:30:45.359 --> 00:30:49.240and understand was like you. Idon't think I would focus on the resources40000:30:49.319 --> 00:30:55.400so much with a later term abortion, but I might not ignore it because40100:30:55.519 --> 00:30:59.720if, if all of those reasonsthat I listed at the beginning of this40200:30:59.799 --> 00:31:04.119podcast are true, then you've stillgot women who are conflicted, women who40300:31:04.200 --> 00:31:08.160are being pressured by a boyfriend,women who are still in shock because they40400:31:08.200 --> 00:31:14.519just found out that they were pregnantnot long ago. And and so I40500:31:14.519 --> 00:31:19.839think using our three talking points arestill important. Yeah, especially focusing on40600:31:19.880 --> 00:31:26.039the to humanity of the baby andand what God has has to say.40700:31:26.200 --> 00:31:29.200Yeah, and the value of thatchild, yea for God. Yeah,40800:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.960absolutely. So, yeah, yeah, well, I think that we'll wrap40900:31:33.079 --> 00:31:36.920this episode up. If you're ifyou're good to go on that. Yeah,41000:31:37.119 --> 00:31:38.680yeah, I mean most people,I just want to say most of41100:31:38.720 --> 00:31:44.039you will not face this. Therewere very few that are solely late term41200:31:44.200 --> 00:31:48.440abortion centers, but you will.If you're in one of those destination states,41300:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.279you may come and meet up withwomen who are in a later term41400:31:52.319 --> 00:31:56.160abortion, and I think it isimportant to to read these articles in and41500:31:56.240 --> 00:32:00.359to think about what we've yeah,suggest absolutely, and we love to hear41600:32:00.400 --> 00:32:05.279you guys feedback. Maybe you're listeningto this podcast and you've ministered at one41700:32:05.279 --> 00:32:07.799of these late term abortion facilities fora long time. If you've learned some41800:32:07.839 --> 00:32:12.160things that you can teach us,we would love to hear from you,41900:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.680maybe even interview you and get somewisdom from you, because we've not been42000:32:15.720 --> 00:32:19.640in that scenario. I'm have debtwith women that are further along in pregnancy,42100:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.799twenty weeks plus, right, but, and I know you have to,42200:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.400but it's not a regular occurrence andwe're certainly not ministering out an abortion42300:32:25.440 --> 00:32:29.680clinic that that's all they do,right. So we're speaking from you know,42400:32:29.759 --> 00:32:31.319some knowledge, but not full knowledgeof what that might look like.42500:32:31.359 --> 00:32:35.039So if you have a unique perspectiveon that, we'd love to hear from42600:32:35.079 --> 00:32:38.200you. And if you have anyfeedback on this episode or other episodes,42700:32:38.279 --> 00:32:42.359please reach out to us. Youcan reach me Daniel at Love Life Dot42800:32:42.480 --> 00:32:45.599Org. You reach her Vicky atLove Life Dot Org. Also want to42900:32:45.599 --> 00:32:49.960say if you guys could leave usreview and whatever service you use for podcasts,43000:32:50.599 --> 00:32:54.759we would really like to get ourone point two stars up to four43100:32:54.759 --> 00:33:00.559stars, maybe maybe three stars,because our pro abortion friends have trodde our43200:33:00.640 --> 00:33:02.720reviews. They're still putting reviews outevery once in a while. We have43300:33:02.799 --> 00:33:07.400more reviews than any other pro lifepodcast. Yeah, they just happen to43400:33:07.400 --> 00:33:14.640all be one starry using pro abortionto our pro abortion friends have have really43500:33:14.640 --> 00:33:16.519given us a lot of reviews andif you want to have some fun,43600:33:16.799 --> 00:33:22.359read the reviews. Well, maybenot, they're pretty pretty nasty, but43700:33:22.480 --> 00:33:25.480anyway, leaves a review if youhave an opportunity to do that if you43800:33:25.480 --> 00:33:30.559like these podcasts. But until nexttime, God bless God, bless you43900:33:30.599 --> 00:33:43.839all. Give me our love forlove, give me our love for gratitude.44000:33:45.880 --> 00:33:54.279I know it will cost me mylife. Nothing's too precious, and44100:33:54.599 --> 00:34:05.799some that you