Pastors Arrested At An Abortion Center Under A Stay-at-Home Order

0:00 Our calling is not to fight the powers would be our calling is to submit to the power. That is, we submit to the Lord Jesus and to his rule and his reign, because he's the Lord. I Am Yours, I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. Some local pastures were arrested for praying outside an abortion clinic and violation of a stayathome order. Join Vicky and as we talked through this biblically and the impact that stay at home orders and other laws have had on pro life ministry and me, Lord, I felt show Passish, touch your h use me love. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. We're here in an undisclosed location somewhere inside the city of Charlotte, hunkered down in the midst of a pandemic.

0:58 Right. Not Trying to make light of it. It's a it's a big issue, this coronavirus thing that we're all dealing with it. We're all dealing with various aspects of it, various aspects of way, the way that this thing has affected our lives and how, you know, I guess, the the repercussions of it and some of the decisions that local governments and the national the federal government and state governments have made in order to tamp down on this, or, let's say tamped down, but in order to, I guess it else, the spread of this this virus. How you listen, we have to acknowledge, you know, there's conspiracy, theorists out there that think that this has is really not true, that the hospitals are actually empty and there's not people suffering from this. But we know that there are people suffering from from this virus and we don't want to make light of it, right, but we do need to put it in perspective, and I'm not just talking about economic perspective, but one of the things that we're going to talk about today, the main focus what we're going to talk about today, is the fact that abortion clinics remain open right, even though not essential medical services.

2:12 The federal government has said these things should stop, right and you know, local governments it said that. You know, they said that, I think, here in Mecklenburg County, and the state has said that. All right. Well, they've said that all medical operations that are not necessary should be postponed. Yeah, absolutely. I just talked to gather the other day. He said his his mother's mother in law supposed to have brain cancer surgery. Oh My, and that's been postponed for two months. Wow, now, I mean, I'm not a doctor, right, don't even play one on TV. Yeah, but I'm thinking brain canswer surgery probably essential. You with think, you know, yeah, and so you know. But we just we just came from the abortion clinic here in Charlotte. How many abortion patients were there? Mobbed? At least forty. Wow, probably amazing.

2:58 Say, yeah, it's it's hard to wrap your mind around how folks can talk about you, non essential services being put off until you know, some undefined time, and yet here the abortion clinic is full forty abortion patients. And then we talk about social distancing. There's no way. And I don't know. I know the other day they were bringing them in and they were making some of them sit out in their cars and so so they didn't, you know, have the building full of people. Yeah, there are a couple of days though, they had at least thirty people there and they were all inside of the buildings. I don't know how it was to day. Yeah, I think it was a mix of both of those same but I'm sure they there was no way that they were keeping the social distance. Yeah, I mean we saw even as they lined up. There was like ten and ten lined up as they open the doors and they were all past.

3:44 I mean they were right on each other's backs. Yes, well, yeah, it's crazy. So that's what we're going to be talking about gas and if you're, you know, stirred up over just what little bit we've mentioned thus far, you should be. Yeah, we you know, there's there's a phony outrage that goes around in society and people get out raised over things they're not really outraged over. You know, I'm I don't even like the word outrage, but I'm outraged with abortion in general. So, I mean, obviously, full disclosure, I think abortion clinics should be shut down because they killed children. Right, had really nothing to do with the coronavirus. Yeah, it should be shut down because they're killing children. Yeah, my my opinion, and I believe in the scriptures opinion, God's opinion. Yeah, but they're people who, you know, think that abortion is a good thing and, you know, abortion clinic should remain open, and yet they're talking about this social distancing. We talked about this in our coronavirus podcast where we talked about the hypocrisy about bodily autonomy, and yet now the government is able to take away your bodily autonomy as long as it affects another person.

4:48 So you have people who are pro choice or complaining about, you know, people spreading this virus. They should be complaining about the fact that there's a building with forty people that have come to that place that are having a non essential elective surgical procedure or medical procedure right being potentially exposed and exposing others to this virus. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's a they should be outraged, but of course they're not, because they think abortion is is an essential thing and it's their precious little jewel that they want to protect at all costs and even expand. I mean it's becoming an excuse like that. I have heard that there is talk of trying to get rid of the height amendment and have public funding of abortion, because the coronavirus has made it so difficult for these women who have now lost their job, yes, to be able to get their abortion right. So so there should be taxpayer funding, yeah, of abortion. It's crazy it because we've seen over the past couple of weeks, since this coronavirus scare and all this, we've seen an increase in people coming for aboords. All My yess, yeah, yeah, and it's like, okay, so this, this is ramped up, have an abortions and all that. And course you have to ask yourself why, and I think we know it because fear. We've encountered people now, a couple of different people, who've told US specifically they're there for an abortion right because of the coronavirus. They lost their job and then this that. So of course we

6:20 get that and that's why it's even more essential that we are there. Exactly because in all the the cases over the past few days, since the stay at home order, especially when people have come over and talked with us, and it's very evident that their decision to abort is being fueled by fear that has been brought on by the coronavirus. And in the three cases that come immediately to my mind, all three of them really did not want an abortion, really did not. And as soon as we were able to take away that element of fear and talk about the hope and help that was available and talk with them about the truth of God that all three of them chose life.

7:01 Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. The story from today that you share with me. A couple from a country, I guess we write and another country, from another country and good ways away, had some issues that they're dealing with. She didn't want to have an abortion at all, but felt like there's just no way in the midst of all this. And, of course, you know, you were able to offer them resources that they helped them. Yeah, and they had no idea and if we hadn't been there again at just zeroed out, they there. She was already in there, the abortionist had arrived, she was in there for the abortion and the husband came over to talk to me and I told him what we could offer, all legitimate things, by the way, that they already have availed themselves of. Yeah, as soon as we offered them, we made good. We got the people necessary to follow through on those resources. Yes, you say they already have availed themselves of like they've already been plugged into the researchers.

7:51 They're absolutely. Yeah, absolutely, and they immediately went from the abortion clinic, chose life, went from the abortion clinic to the other resources and things that connect. That's right. And in fact the the husband, said would you be able to do? I told him what we could do. Said can you do this now? Yeah, and I said yes, yeah, and we did, and that's God. God, God a shared and and provides. But but the the overarching point is that this was a woman who actually wanted the baby, but she was absolutely adamantly set on abortion because she did not see her own way out of this mess. But we did.

8:31 And Yeah, I did, and if we hadn't been there, that baby would be dead. Yeah, yeah, and that's you know, I guess spring boards right into what we're talking about in this podcast, which is something we're dealing with locally. You know, I've I've had a few people reach out to me in light of the state at home order that's been issued by Mecklenburg County. And you guys, you know, across the nation you probably dealing with this their states that have enacted stay at home or orders or shelter in place orders, and there's different levels of that, and I won't get into all of that because I don't know all the INS and outs of that, but there are people who are dealing with this in their city and their people are dealing with is this and their state, and so you know I'm talking about when talking about stay at home order, and in ours here in Mecklenburg County was basically stay at home unless you're part of an essential service or you are a support company or whatever for an essential service, or you need to walk your dog or you need to walk your dog or go kayaking or bicycling to there are certain exceptions here, but you know, we're dealing with that here in Mecklemburg County. It's in place for thirty days, yeah, if I'm not mistaken, and then today actually at five o'clock and we're recording this on a Monday. This is the thirty of March that we recording this.

9:46 They're supposed to be a statewide thank that's have some of the same language as the Mecklenburg County one. Anyway, I've gotten people that have asked me and, you know, even well, meeting people, some believers, they're like, why you guys? Didn't you know? Why you guys not abiding by this stay at home order? Yeah, you guys are breaking the law, you guys are violating this thing and you guys are potentially exposing yourself and exposing to other others to this virus and you're potentially part of the problem. Yeah, and I think it's a legitimate concern for people. Listen, there's there's a lot of concern. There's a lot of people that are afraid they're going to, you know, not just that they're going to get this thing, but we should be concerned as Christians that we're not a part of the problem, that we're not spreading this this virus us around. I don't want someone that I'm in contact with, you know, I have you know, if I had this this virus, had it in my body, which, by God's grace, I don't, but if I did and I expose an older person to it, I would feel horrible. If I was just being haphazard. I mean some things you can't help, but if I'm just going out and being recklessly, you know, exposed to this thing and exposing myself to the situations that that I don't need to, then that would be an issue. Yeah, but here's the thing. We're not doing that right.

10:52 You know, we have friends also, you know, I'm told you I wanted to mention our friends with love life, Charlotte, our love life. Now they're, you know, all over the country, there here in Charlotte, Greensboro, Raleigh and then now in New York City, and they're doing prayer walks and that's there. One of their primary focus is bringing the church out to the abortion clinics to do prayer walks. And they were out there this past Saturday and there their ministry was in Greensboro, North Carolina, and they're doing a prayer walk and the police came out because Greensboro does have a stay at home order and under the you know, authority, I guess, of the stay at home order, they told him they had to leave, so they did. The prayer walkers and the people who were there that morning left, but justin a good friend of mine who we had on the podcast some months ago went as the founder that ministry to see what was up and, you know, we believe, and they believe, that they had good standing to be out there. There are certain provisions, and we'll talk about those in a little bit, where we stand on these things exactly and in certain you know, we're not just kind of pulling the stuff out of the dark, out of the air. We have lawyers that we've talked to we've read through the orders. We all sixteen pages exactly, and we want to be in you know, we want to be in compliance. We're not just reckless. They you know, our friends would love life. They're not just reckless just to go out there and do what we want. We understand these are difficult times, these are extenuating circumstances and there's things that we maybe could have done a two months ago that we can't do now, you know.

12:20 But anyway, so our friends, they went out there. That Justin and a couple of the other guys went out there and ultimately they were arrested. They were they were arrested and and they were booked and and then, you know, let go and the police. Some of you guys, if you want to check, probably Google search it pretty easily, but you can see the facebook live that they were recording at the time. The police did not want to have a conversation with them about the what they were even out there for. They didn't want to have a conversation about, you know, their legal ground that they were standing on to be out there, and they just sits there. Yeah, there wasn't. They had the order, they had the orders and the paperwork in hand everything to show them, and the the police officers did not want to see it at not these that we're past that point. Yeah, as either leaver you're going to jail. So anyway.

13:05 And then Monday today actually, when recording this podcast, a group of pastors, along with some of the folks from love life, went back out there again to pray. They were just five of them and and actually the order says you can't have a group of more than ten, so they were, you know, half of that, and again they took them to jail. Yeah, they also another thing that really just was like wow, how can they even justify this at all? And you know, we listen, we honor the police, we appreciate all that they do. It's you know, there are police officers to make decisions that are that are very difficult, and we get that. But also police officers make decisions that like come on, man, you can rethink that thing. So this, but really this comes from the higher ups. But the mobile unit, you know, there was a mobile unit, mobile ultrasound unit, like what we have here in Charlotte Park there and near the abortion center in a parking lot where they have permission from the business to be there illegal medical yeah, yeah, absolutely legal within the the boundaries of the stayathome order. You know, if the abortion clinic is a medical facility, and you know it's a medical facility because it has medical staff and medical equipment. The mobile ultrasound units are as well. there.

14:15 There's medical staff, there's an urn or scenographer that's been trained, that has a medical license under the state of North Carolina. There's medical equipment. You know, all they had and confidential always supply. They followed all the Seenis Se resommendations to keep it nice and clean and yeah, but they were told that they had to leave, and so they had to. They had to pack up and leave where they would have gone to jail and maybe they would have towed away their mobile unit, I don't know. You know, so one one medical facility is told to leave, the other medical facility is deemed essential. And what was the difference between the two? The message? Yeah, I mean that's exactly what it was. And you know, I'm again, I'm not a lawyer. We do have lawyers that were that we're dealing with from our end, and they love life does as well. But just on its face there's an obvious bias there. It seems to me that with this, you know, public emergency, this, you know, emergency designation. Right there were state of emergency. That's the terrible American for earlier.

15:18 The state of emergency designation has given people who, you know, who are limited by the constitution, limited by other laws, to it's just given them free reign to just run all over people's rights, and that's that is not the way that it ought to be. Yet, based on fear and safety, which is don't fear and safe, and capitalizing on people's fears right and people's desire for safety, they're just pushing the constitution to the side and that's a grievous thing. Now, one of the things I do want to say, and this is this is something I said to you earlier, that I want folks that are listening to understand we as a ministry, our job and are calling from the Lord, is not to fight the powers that be.

15:58 It's not to, you know, put a stake in the ground and fight constitutional battles, even though we were in our mission statement. Does it's anything about exactly exactly, although we do have a federal lawsuit against the city of Charlotte because of them infringing on our First Amendment Rights. It's not our primary calling and we don't want to get wrapped up in it in anything else. We don't want to. We don't want to be in the lawsuit that we're in right now. But there comes a point where your pressured by, you know, we're pressured by the city or by other government entities where you can't just abide. Yeah, and another for folks that are asking, you know, aren't we supposed to obey the law of the land? We talked about this some months ago in another podcast about civil disobedience and Romans chapter thirteen and all that stuff. And aren't we supposed to obey the law of the land? Yes, we are supposed to obey the law of the land, but when the law of the land is in contradiction to the law of God, clearly lay down in scripture, we have to respectfully decline to obey when it yeah, yeah, yeah, when it's an obvious contradiction to God's word, which is true, but in this case we don't even need to worry about that. Honestly, within the Statute itself, for the ordinance itself, we are justified in being there. Yeah, and so, you know, maybe can you just give us kind of a review or an overview of what the content of that stay at home order states that we see as being justification?

17:30 Yeah, yeah, for us to be there, and then maybe, lady, we could even talk about how the lawyer also went over that with us and justify. Yes, those are so we have attorneys with the Thomas Moore Society that are helping us out with our federal case against the city for infringing upon our rights to use signage and given out literature and all that other stuff, and get into those details. But Anyway, they they've written for us a letter as they've gone through this stayathome order and they've given us a letter that basically says, you know, you're in compliance because of this, this and this and this. Right now, I don't know if I've already said this, but I do want to make this clear that we are taking the CDC recommendations very serious seriously. You know, we even have marks on the pavement. It might see good six feet almost expen the sidewalk. We're not high five and we're not hugging, we're not handshaken. We're being very intentional about being spread out Yep, we're sanitizing our hands after every interaction we have someone. If they stop and take our literature, you might say, well, you're passing out literature. That's that's not in accordance with the CDC recommendation. As well, if you're going to a place to get drive through food and you're you're doing more than what we're doing and passing out of piece of information. Their handing you a bag of food exactly exactly. So, I mean there's listen, we understand there are certain risk just being out in public. There's a certain risk that's involved and being exposed to this virus.

18:52 We get it. But is the risk worth it? Like when you go to the grocery store, you are, you are risking getting exposed or, if you carry this thing and don't know what, exposing other people. But is the reward, for lack of a better term, worth the risk? Of course, you need groceries, right, you've got to do that. Certain things you have to do. They are certain essential things. And so are we risking being on the sidewalk, even though we're spread out, even though we're sanitizing in your hands, even though we're doing all the things that we ought to be doing social distance, no more than ten people to all of that. Is there risk? Yes, but is the reward, I guess, for lack of a better term, again, worth the risk? Yes, because what is the reward? Well, it's just what you shared earlier. Yeah, it's those babies get a voice and women who who would be back and forth in their mind and their heart about the abortion are getting a choice. Yeah, we're offering them a choice, we're offering them hope, we're offering them alternatives. Yeah, and the word of God. So, anyway, to jump into what the stayathome order says a little bit.

19:52 I think I've already mentioned it, and the where we kind of fit in with this thing. You know that. It's yeah, you you not supposed to be outlass is an essential thing. There's certain essential things that have been laid out, but one of the things I did want to mention just right away in this stay at home order it says prohibited activities. This is all public and private gatherings of more than ten people are prohibited. Right. So what does that tell me? Well, that tells me that want that public and private gatherings that are under ten ten people are under are not prohibited, they're actually allowed. Yea. So we fit under that criteria and right, no problem, because we have been intentional. Any there have been times where, you know, we've had more than ten people out on the side in our history, and you know in our history, yeah, yeah, but now, since this thing, since the CDC recommendations, we've been intentional about not having more than ten people. We have we tried to be very intentional about us and we were limited our teams to four or five people, and that until people out there and if we've been sent some home or we've sent them elsewhere, so that we are definitely appliance there. Absolutely, so that you know right away that's that's one of the things that I see. Another thing, and this is I'm not going to name out the sections and all this because I'm sure people aren't going to be looking through this, but another thing that talks about here it says that you can leave your home for essential activities, and these are these permitted activities. I'll just read the titles for health and safety. So if you need to go to a doctor's appointment or emergency situation, even for pets, by the way, if you need take

21:26 your pet to the veterinarian. Right, you can do that under this order. Yeah, for necessary supplies and services. So basically you can go to the store, you can go get food and get other things that are necessary for outdoor activity. That's one I think you mentioned earlier. Yeah, so you can engage in outdoor activities long as you social distance. So you can go and says out here, by way of example, and without limitation, walking, hiking, golfing, running, cycling, are using the green ways, and so you can. You can go and says they can go into parks, but just can't play on the park, the playground, on the press playground. Yeah, because slid surfaces, apparently, can carry the virus longer. Yeah, that's the next part is for certain types of work.

22:11 And here's where it talks about healthcare and public health operations, Human Services and all these other things. And and listen, we know if, let's if they're gonna DEEM THE ABORTION CLINICS TO FIT in this criteria, this is a public health organization or whatever, then the mobile unit, who serves the same clientele, yeah, fits in that category as well. And you know, whether we buy extension or applied to that or not. In some people's minds. We believe that we are because we, you know, we're are teams, are operating alongside that mobile unit. And you you on, you go on. Want to counseling board where required to be there as as the witness yeah, I'm there needs to do to medical care. People on board there and that are counselors are the ones that are witnessing and and counseling with the resources. Yeah, yeah, and continueing on, you know what talks about, and this is in section three on if you have it on the air.

23:06 But again, people aren't probably following along, and that's fine, you should. Probably shouldn't, because it's a bunch of some of it's a bunch of legally's stuff anyway. But it talks about repredictive reproductive health providers and of course we know that's probably exempt. They are, example, from the state of exempt from the state productive healthcare providers. Yeah, okay, yeah, and you know that's stuck in there to let abortion clinic stay open, exactly. But but what's reproductive health? Of course, yeah, pregnancy is reproductive health. Yeah, pregnancy is normal, it's not a disease. And so that those who are helping to sustain that pregnancy and give the mom's resources and and medical assistance so that they can and continue on with a healthy pregnancy.

23:52 Certainly fall under this category. Yeah, absolutely, and that's exactly but the RV, oh, yes, and that we so doubt about it. Yeah, again, they serve the same clientele as the abortion clinic does, except for the goals are different. For the abortion clinic, obviously it's to make money off of killing the child. For the mobile unit, it's not make any money because they don't write. But all for free help to the woman so she doesn't feel like she has to go through with the abortion killed child, right, and also talks about human service operations. And this where it talks not just about medical stuff, but it talks about social services and offering certain resources and things to meet their needs. And you know, we certainly fit right in that category. In this it talks about social services, it talks about shelters, homeless shelters and things like that. Talks about helping those who are at disadvantage, otherwise needy, is what it's economically disadvantaged individuals, and those are the bulk of the people who really they're there for an abortion and they are there and often choose life when they meet with us, because the services, the human services that we are offering are helping these economically disadvantaged individuals. Yeah, so you know kind of what we're doing, guys, is you just going through this, this order, and we're saying that we're in compliance with this thing. This thing is laid out with some pretty clear exceptions, some pretty clear definitions of what's essential, and the mobile unit certainly

25:22 does. And then we as a ministry fit into this criteria. I mean we believe if the abortion clinic is open and it's considered an essential service, then for us to be there and offer those women a choice is also essential. Yeah, and you know, of course, that's from our perspective, but from the perspective of this stayathome order as it's laid out here, we were essential. Exactly. Here's what goes on to say. It says, and this is talking about essential businesses and operations, so it's naming out some essential businesses and operations and, and this is one of the categories. Of course, it talks about groceries and medicine and food and beverage and agriculture. When it says organizations that provide charitable and social services. M So it says, businesses and religious and secular nonprofit organizations, including food banks, when providing food, shelter and social services and other necessities of life for economically disadvantage or otherwise needy individuals. I mean, that's exactly what do, what we do, because, you know, we plug these listen, we have a list of these services, we have a list of these food panchers. Yeah, but we also have our own ministry that we provide baby clothes and baby items, diapers and all those things. So any when people need those things in the midst of a pandemic like this, right, and they very much doubt, very much so. And and you know, we fit where charitable, we're nonprofit. We provide the social necessity of life for needy individuals. Yeah, yeah, no doubt about it. And of course, again, we provide those babies of voice. So we're essential so that those babies that are

26:59 in the womb, but also those women would would have a choice. Yeah, because otherwise the abortion clinic does not offer a choice. They're not going to help them, they're not going to help meet the needs that they have, they're not going to plug them into you know, organizations and ministries that can help meet their needs. You know, what is there for profit? There their business. Yeah, and, and I think a couple that came on on Saturday illustrates this point so well. There was one of them had had for abortion, yeah, and and what she talked about was that she kept having abortion after abortion after abortion, because she would get the abortion, but the abortion center didn't provide the the services that she needed or the recommendations or the resources or the anything that counseling, anything that might lead to her not ever returning for another abortion, for another abortion. But that's what we do, right, that's what we do so that they don't have to keep coming back or feel that they have to keep coming back for abortion after abortion and abortion. But she specifically said, from the little ride up that you showed me, that, yeah, you know, if someone would have been here, yeah, saying what you guys were saying, an oftrom and what you guys were offering, that I likely wouldn't have gonement. You would have made another choice, she thought. And and that's why we're there. Yeah, again. What does that say? That that speaks to the essential nature of what we're doing. That's right, essential, if your mindset isn't that killing the baby is the way to deal with the struggles, yeah, that

28:30 an unexpected pregnancy brings. Yeah, and and that mindset we categorically reject. We believe that that there is never a valid reason for taking an innocent human life and therefore that's why we're there, speaking from that perspective of and providing the resources that that is not deemed necessary. Yeah, absolutely, and, you know, speaking to you, you mentioned and I mentioned, that we had attorneys that were that we're dealing with with our federal lawsuit, but also they've drafted up a letter for us. Yeah, as it pertains to this order. And you know, what we want to do is we want to, as best we can, abide by any law, any order. We're not. Listen, as Christians, we shouldn't just be lawless individuals thinking the government can't tell me what to do. I know I shared with you, guess you know, on the on the coronavirus podcast, and I'm that kind of guy where I don't like the government telling me what to do. Stay out of my business, I'll do what I want. But I'm also a guy that submitted to the word of God and another word of God tells me that I should submit to the government. But, as I mentioned earlier, if the government tells me to disobey God, then at that point I can't obey that and you know, I can respectfully decline to obey that order.

29:42 But the Bible tells us very clearly. Proverbs thirty one versus eight nine probably quoted. It most quoted scripture that we quote as a ministry. Open your mouth for the speeches, for think in the case of all who are appointed to die, open your mouth, judge righteously, plead the cause of the pegnity. That is not a suggestion from God, that is a command from the Lord Right that we've taken very seriously as a ministry, which is why we do what we do. That's a command from God. And just like the Apostles John and and Peter when they were told by the Pharisees and the religious leaders of that day to stop speaking about the name of Jesus, they didn't just throw off and disregard the the leaders. They said we must have been I mean, you can just to me when I read that scripts.

30:26 I can just hear the humility and Peter's Voice. We must obey God rather than man, it's like we don't have a choice and when the government tells us we can't be out there. Yeah, and you know, thankfully they've not told us that. Thankfully here in Charlotte, they've not said you can't be out here right they've just said and here's certain criteria and we meet those criteria and two. So we're out there. In Greensboro. It's not not like that, though. They've been told expressly you can't be out here right now. I'll watch one of the videos. Is got a funny I watch one of the videos of love life and in the midst of them being arrested and you can see a bicycler walking his bike right by there and the police aren't saying anything to yeah, they're they're not doing anything more than he's doing.

31:08 You know, they're at the same location. But it's basically they're targeted because they are known to be opposed to abortion. That's like, that's that's scary. Yeah, scary stuff. Yeah, yeah, and so, you know, as a as those who want to honor God and those who want to do what's right, what's it? You know, you know, I want to ask you this question and I've asked myself this question. How's it going to be if they start to do that here in Charlotte, they start to say, Hey, R I guess can't be out here, even though we know we're in we're in accordance with this thing. We have lawyers that have looked at this thing. How's IT GOING TO BE? What do we how we're going to handle this thing and we still honor God and remain out there? And I've honestly had quite a few sleepless nights wrestling with that and thinking about that, because my strong conviction, based on careful study of scripture, is that we are commanded to be there and I know I specifically have been called to be out on that sidewalk and I also know that I am abiding to the letter and even the spirit of of what is written in these stayathome ordinances. So I must obey God. Yeah, and how will that play out? Will See, I guess you never know to you're in that situation. Yeah, I know. You know one of the concerns that I have. You know the past. So this thing for us and Mecklenburg County

32:40 came into effect Thursday of last week. Yeah, we have a state or order that I mentioned earlier, this is going to come into effect today at five, actually here in just a little bit, but get out of her quick yeah, but you know, with what happened in Greensborough, I'm hoping this is not going to embolden our local authorities. But also, you know, we have a city council that is not favorable to us. They've tried to attack, you know, every area of speech that we employ, right and there's been one of the city council leaders, Julie Eisolt here in Charlotte, that has been very vocal and said, you know, the police need to shut this thing down. She was doing that last Saturday. She's, you know, apparently good friends with some of the pro abortion people that stand out there and oppose us and and probably good friends with the abortion clinic owners and stuff too. And you know, I'm just I'm concerned that the pressure that she's going to put is going to almost force the hand of cmpd to do something similar to what Greensboro did. Right, and you know, I have to ask myself. Listen, I'm a man with eight kids, a wife and kids, and yeah, I certainly don't want to be locked up, I don't want to be. You know, I don't have the money just to throw away on lawyers and and legal fees and and pay in citations or whatever. So how am I going to handle this thing? What, before God, how can i? How can I honor him and and do what I'm called to do and not get to jail? So we're doing our best. We have carefully read the entire both of us have read the entire ordinance. We have spoken with their lawyers and our lawyers have drafted this letter

34:13 and we are abiding by what we believe is our civic duty, yeah, as well as our moral and God given duty. Yeah, yeah. So, so what did the lawyers say? Basically, what's what's the bottom line of their justification life? I mean, so the bottom line is some of the things that we've already gone through. Yeah, you know the reproductive health thing. You know the fact that if these reproductive health care, these abortion clinics can remain open, and what we're doing as a charitable you know, because there's a name about the organizations are provide charitable and social services. What we're doing is we'll reach in the people that are going in there with these charitable and social services. They also mentioned which I'm very thankful for about how we were there proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ and advocating for life. And so they talk about the outdoor provision. You can be outdoors and you can do outdoor activities, outdoor activities like walking and running. That's what we're doing on the sidewalk. We're walking. Yeah, not running, we're walking.

35:14 Would just used to do that in front of the abortion Clin, that strip a sidewalk there in front of the abortion Clin. In fact, I have a HEALTHAPP on my phone. Yeah, and Saturday while I was ministering to the women who stopped to talk with me, I put in five miles on my wow, I know, amazing. So you're you're getting your outdoor activity. It's getting my outdoor activity while sharing the Gospel and, yeah, and the hope and help of many resources. Yeah, so, I mean that's what they're their siding. Course, they talk about the mobile unit and they talk about it offering rep productive healthcare. Then they talk about which I told them, you know, hey, listen, guys, we're checking all the boxes, we're doing all the CDC stuff, and they talked about that. How these these folks are abiding by these social distancing requirements. And so, you know, reason why I wanted to do this podcast really is to let folks know who might be concerned, and rightly so. You know, you guys just being reckless? Are you just out there because you feel like you got a bone to pick with the city of Charlotte? You feel like you know you're some social justice warrior that you know got to fight the powers that be? No, in no way. We're out there because those babies don't have a voice. We're out there because God calls us to be out there and we're doing everything that we can, shy of not being on the sidewalk, doing everything that we can, yeah, to not be a part of the problem of spreading this virus. We get it, it's a problem.

36:32 We're not making light of it at all, but we also have a mandate from the Lord that we are committed to yeah, and before God, I can't good conscience, stay home right. I don't know if I don't believe we have talked about this on any of other other podcasts and I really think it. It's actually pretty funny, but I think it's important to talk about when we arrived at the sidewalk yeah, on Thursday morning's a wonderful site matter. Right. So we're coming, Daniel and I thinking, well, I told my husband, you may have to bail me out to this is when they say at home, orderhead. That's correct. There's them. That's correct. So I said, I don't know what I'm going to do. I won't know till I'm in this situation. Pretty sure Daniel's going to be in jail and I know going and I m I. So, you know, be prepared. You know you might be eating dinner alone. But so we come to the sidewalk and and what do we see? Yeah, so, as I told you, and I put it on Facebook, this is one of the most encouraging things I say in a long time. The pro abortion people had taken the liberty to ride on the sidewalk and name us in particular.

37:37 See, for Al they named John Fifty three, which is the the woman called an adultery, and it says, you know, Jesus said he's without seeing cast the first stone. And then it says they all went home, the exact first that they put said. Then they all went home and we kind of laughed with that's a pretty good bad and they all went home. Well, of course, if you read on in the context, it tells us Jesus didn't go home. He actually stayed in tall in the temple. But another piece of their sidewalk art said Jesus would have stayed home. Right, Jesus would have stayed home. And and of course, you know that brings to mind. The scripture tells us that he left his glorious abode to come to this place and he took on the form of a man. Yeah, so that he could save US wretches. You know, Jesus didn't stay home, he left. That plays even three verses later. So John Eight versus one to two. It's right that the next verse, Uh Huh, but Jesus, but Jesus, but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

38:35 Uh Huh. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him and he sat down to teach them to yeah, Jesus didn't even go home. And what they say? Yeah, that's and, which is really funny. But I said that's encouraging because they knew that, in spite of that order, that we would be out there. They were not there, by the way. They were not. They were not not a thankfully they've not been. And actually, you know, I don't know if I shared this with you, I'll share it now. Okay, they put out on their social media that they plan on shutting down their operations completely until this thing passed. So you know what it's got. Yeah, praise the Lord. I'm glad not to have him out there, but I'm glad for the encouragement that they gave that we have established, you know, by God's grace, we've established our character in such a way that there was no doubt in their mind right that we would be out there last sidewalk.

39:22 They knew that as long as that abortion clinic was open, that cities for life, that our folks were going to be out there on that sidewalk. And you know about God's grace. That's what we intend to do again, not just to be lawless, not because we feel like we have this bone to pick with the city or we going to fight the powers that be. Our calling is not to fight the powers that be. Our calling is to submit to the power. That is how you like that? That's good. Yeah, and we submit to the Lord Jesus and to his rule and his reign because he's the Lord, because he is God, and we're not just going to say Lord, Lord, we're going to really do what he says. And what does he say? Take up our cross, follow him. What does he say? Love your neighbor as yourself. Whatever you've done the least of these, you've done it. Unto me. Yeah, proverbs thirty one, eight nine, open your mouth for the speechless. That's what we intend to do, by God's great so I want to encourage you guys who are listening, please pray for us as a ministry. You know, listen, this is the difficult time for everybody. I do not envy the stuff that pastors have to deal with and making decisions about their congreg congregations not meeting. I don't envy what government officials the decisions they have to make.

40:32 I don't envy the police department, some of those police officers that made the rest of our friends love life. I'm sure some of them were believers and probably didn't want to do that but felt like they had to. I don't envy their position at all. But we're all in a difficult position. We're all in a circumstance where we have to make difficult decisions, and so just pray for us as a ministry, if you think about it, because, listen, babies are thought still dying. We're still called to be out there and listen, we're seeing. We saw four baby saved on Saturday, Saturday. Yeah, God is doing amazing things in spite of this, and the and Daddy. Evening after those four babies were saved, one of them I had the privilege of counseling on on the RV. Yeah, and that evening I got a text from her. This was a woman who is strongly abortion minded and and I got a text from her that evening that said, thank you for saving my child. Yeah, and I loved that she used the word child, because that humanized instantly. No longer was it just this clump.

41:31 Yeah, this was her child and she was going to do anything from that point forward to protect that baby. And if we hadn't been there, that would be a very different to you. I'm story so amazing what the Lord will do if we just show her, show up and make ourselves available to be used by him so he man be. Can pray for us as a ministry, as we always do. We want to refer you to our sidewalks for life website sidewalks the number four and lifecom. Maybe we should do an article about serving God in the midst of a pandemic or some don't know, maybe we will. We put articles out on regular basis. Mostly Vicki writes those because she's a rider and it takes me like four months to write one sentence. But anyway. So when I refer you that website, certainly reach out to me. D Parks at cities for lifecom. Reach out to Vicki, v COSSI OREGET CITIES FOR LIFECOM. We'd love to hear from some of your feedback. Please share this podcast with your friends and family. But until next time, God bless give me our love for love, give me our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious, and some that you