Ministering to Women With Postpartum Depression

WEBVTT100:00:00.280 --> 00:00:05.919So here we are. The MOM'scome in, she's ready to abort and200:00:06.639 --> 00:00:10.669you know that actually, if she'shad it in her past, she's likely300:00:10.710 --> 00:00:15.589to have it again. And sowhat do you what do you say to400:00:15.789 --> 00:00:23.420her as she's as she's contemplating abortion? I Am Yours, I am yours,500:00:23.780 --> 00:00:28.620I am yours. And Me,Lord, I am yours, I600:00:28.899 --> 00:00:34.060am yours. I'm welcome to theGospel centered pro life podcast, a podcast700:00:34.179 --> 00:00:39.729designed to equip, encourage and challengeyou in pro life ministry, and always800:00:39.770 --> 00:00:47.770with a focus on the Gospel.Stay tuned. I felt show passish touch900:00:48.210 --> 00:00:58.359your use me, Lord. Welcomeback to the Gospel Center pro life podcast.1000:00:58.439 --> 00:01:02.799Appreciate you, guys, joining usand we hope these podcast episodes are1100:01:02.799 --> 00:01:04.670a blessing to you. 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Appreciate the feedback that2100:01:40.569 --> 00:01:44.329we get from you guys. Weget emails from time to time, messages2200:01:44.409 --> 00:01:48.519from time to time about some ofour episodes and how they're blessing, and2300:01:48.719 --> 00:01:52.239so we'd love to hear your feedback, positive or negative feedback. We're not2400:01:52.439 --> 00:02:00.120above correction. We'd certainly if we'veif we've said anything that's that's off key2500:02:00.159 --> 00:02:04.230or whatever. We want to becorrected. We want to say and do2600:02:04.469 --> 00:02:09.189that which honors the Lord Jesus,and we don't we don't consider ourselves experts2700:02:09.229 --> 00:02:15.270all those some people may consider usto be experts, and STHARY is we're2800:02:15.469 --> 00:02:19.900we're sort of expert. Yeah,I guess so, but more than anything2900:02:19.979 --> 00:02:23.860we just want to encourage you guysand bring subjects that come across our radar3000:02:23.900 --> 00:02:30.689across your radar, and that's howmost of these podcast episodes come we have3100:02:30.930 --> 00:02:35.770some kind of situation that we dealwith with a mom or something, somebody3200:02:36.009 --> 00:02:38.729and we hey, maybe we shoulddo a podcast about that, and that's3300:02:38.770 --> 00:02:43.330where this podcast episode is coming from. kind of a weird subject, yeah,3400:02:43.409 --> 00:02:47.439for some people, but it's somethinglikely if you are ministering on the3500:02:47.479 --> 00:02:53.280sidewalk, ministering to mom's that goto these abortion centers, you're going to3600:02:53.560 --> 00:02:55.400likely place it. So what's ourwhat's our subject? Yeah, well,3700:02:55.479 --> 00:03:01.310this was actually a topic that oneof our sidewalk missionaries contacted me and said3800:03:01.310 --> 00:03:07.629that this mom had had gone intothe abortion center was planning to abort and3900:03:07.669 --> 00:03:10.030it was based on the fact thatshe had a history of postpartum depression,4000:03:10.270 --> 00:03:16.379okay, and she was very concernedabout going through that again. It had4100:03:16.419 --> 00:03:23.939been pretty rough, pretty devastating,and the sidewalk missionary that contacted me really4200:03:23.979 --> 00:03:30.009knew very little about postpartum depression didn'treally know how to address it. So4300:03:30.930 --> 00:03:35.650I thought that would be a goodthing for us to talk about. I4400:03:35.849 --> 00:03:39.889have had women with what I wouldconsider baby blues. There is a difference4500:03:40.129 --> 00:03:46.560between the less serious baby blues andexhaustion that probably every new mom feels and4600:03:46.680 --> 00:03:53.240postpartiment depression. But so I didsome research, contacted our high risk doctor4700:03:53.560 --> 00:04:00.389and she sent me a couple ofarticles, contacted our wonderful doctor Matt Harrison,4800:04:00.430 --> 00:04:03.990yeah, who is the pioneer ofthe abortion po reversal and and he4900:04:04.150 --> 00:04:09.870works with many moms, and askedhim for some inputs. So that's how5000:04:10.259 --> 00:04:16.579this particular article and podcasts developed.Okay. So, so the first thing5100:04:17.779 --> 00:04:24.730you know is is the woman wasthreatening abortion and I believe the counselor had5200:04:25.050 --> 00:04:29.930kind of talked her at least momentarilyout of that. Okay, but then5300:04:30.129 --> 00:04:34.250didn't quite know what now. Yes, what's next? Yeah, so what5400:04:34.449 --> 00:04:41.879the things that that I counseled immediatelywere that we had a high risk doctor5500:04:41.959 --> 00:04:45.959who she could contact, and Ithink that's number one thing, yeah,5600:04:46.040 --> 00:04:48.439for for people to have in theirrup. Yeah, absolutely, having some5700:04:48.519 --> 00:04:55.110kind of medical professional that could speakto this stuff. And of course the5800:04:55.230 --> 00:04:59.230best is that that medical professional isa believer in Jesus. Yeah, we're5900:04:59.269 --> 00:05:02.069dealing with things like postpartum depression.I mean having an MD, certainly an6000:05:02.149 --> 00:05:08.300Obgyn because she's dealt with that stuffbefore, for sure, yeah, but6100:05:08.420 --> 00:05:12.620maybe having someone that deals in themental health realm. Yeah, someone the6200:05:12.740 --> 00:05:16.579deals in the counseling realm that's dealtwith postpartum depression and maybe because it's not6300:05:16.620 --> 00:05:21.370always easy to find an md orsomeone who's, like you, certified or6400:05:21.449 --> 00:05:26.170whatever in this area. Yeah,maybe you can't find that, but having6500:05:26.410 --> 00:05:29.850maybe a connection with a church thathas a counseling center or something like that,6600:05:30.089 --> 00:05:32.810but connecting them to someone that canget more in depth and that has6700:05:32.850 --> 00:05:38.480dealt with these situations is probably oneof the most important things you can do,6800:05:38.519 --> 00:05:41.720beyond praying. The share word movesin that sharation. Yeah, so6900:05:41.839 --> 00:05:44.600in in this article, the firstthing that I thought we should do is7000:05:45.439 --> 00:05:49.509define what it is so that ourkind slurs and anyone listening to this podcast7100:05:49.670 --> 00:05:53.829really knows what it is. Youmay have a general sense, but the7200:05:53.990 --> 00:06:03.269Mayo clinics definition of postpartum depression isfirst of all differentiates it from baby blues,7300:06:03.500 --> 00:06:08.220which I have mentioned. Is thatlike a technical thing? Baby Blues,7400:06:08.300 --> 00:06:11.139Baby Blues. That's what if theywas in the article, they they7500:06:11.420 --> 00:06:15.699and that's it's very common. Youknow, MOMS are new baby, new7600:06:15.860 --> 00:06:21.089schedule, exhausted, all these hormonesearging through you. So it is very7700:06:21.170 --> 00:06:28.649common to have mood swings, cryingspells, anxiety, difficulty sleeping and the7800:06:28.810 --> 00:06:33.600difference between Postpartum Depression and baby bluesis that the baby blues usually begin within7900:06:33.720 --> 00:06:39.199the first two to three days afterdelivery and can last up to like two8000:06:39.279 --> 00:06:46.800weeks. But postpartum depression is longlasting. It can it can even in8100:06:46.920 --> 00:06:51.069extreme cases, turn into an extrememood disorder which is called postpartum psychosis,8200:06:51.629 --> 00:06:57.389and it usually occurs after childbirth.It can begin before the baby's born,8300:06:57.430 --> 00:07:03.860but usually it occurs following childbirth.So one of the things that it really8400:07:03.899 --> 00:07:09.420made clear in the articles that Iread and that the doctors I spoke with8500:07:09.819 --> 00:07:14.500it's treatable, okay, and itis serious. Take it seriously. I8600:07:14.579 --> 00:07:18.529think that's import Horton, okay,that anyone who interacts with the mom who8700:07:18.610 --> 00:07:24.970says she has a history of itor she's currently going through it, take8800:07:25.009 --> 00:07:30.879it seriously but reassure her that they'rethere are effective treatments and the sooner it's8900:07:30.920 --> 00:07:39.439identified, the better the treatments areand the more effective that the treatments are.9000:07:40.360 --> 00:07:44.310So I let's say, one ofthe things just to chime in a9100:07:44.350 --> 00:07:48.029quick as a man from the maleperspective. Yeah, when you encounter these9200:07:48.069 --> 00:07:53.110women, I think we've said thisreiterated this point several times that when you9300:07:53.230 --> 00:07:57.589encounter a mom and she gives somereason why she's coming to the abortion center,9400:07:58.939 --> 00:08:01.699sometimes those reason can they can beridiculous to us and we don't understand.9500:08:01.819 --> 00:08:05.019We don't we don't connect with itright, especially as a man and9600:08:05.220 --> 00:08:09.939dealing with postpartum depression like no man'sever dealt with postpartum depression. So we9700:08:09.980 --> 00:08:13.850could be tempted to kind of justshrug it off. It's like, well,9800:08:13.850 --> 00:08:16.089that's no reason to kill your baby, right. But I want to9900:08:16.290 --> 00:08:20.370reinforce what you said, that weneed to take it seriously. We need10000:08:20.449 --> 00:08:22.209to, like we've always said,identify with their pain, even though it10100:08:22.290 --> 00:08:26.160does not justify them killing their child. To them it's real. To them10200:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.320it's at least it's some sense ajustification to be at the abortion center and10300:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.399we need to take it seriously.We need to address it now. Probably,10400:08:35.440 --> 00:08:39.000as a man, I'm not evenget as in depth as you would10500:08:39.039 --> 00:08:45.830with the situation right right, butcertainly if I've got people that I can10600:08:45.870 --> 00:08:48.789get on the phone, if I'vegot a I'm out there on the sidewalk10700:08:48.830 --> 00:08:50.029and I'm talking to a mom that'sgoing in. She said, well,10800:08:50.149 --> 00:08:52.750that with postpartum depression in the pastand I don't want to deal with that10900:08:52.909 --> 00:08:56.620this time. Still dealing with thator whatever. I'm probably going to call11000:08:56.659 --> 00:09:01.940a female counselor over. Yeah,I'm probably going to not, probably definitely11100:09:01.980 --> 00:09:03.259going to point her to the pregnancycenter. Hey, don't go in there.11200:09:03.299 --> 00:09:07.100There's people in the pregnancy center.They can talk with that. I'll11300:09:07.139 --> 00:09:09.779talk with you about that. Andthen again, if I have a medical11400:09:09.820 --> 00:09:11.409professional so I can get on thephone, accounsel or something like that.11500:09:11.970 --> 00:09:16.409Definitely want a connector with that,that person to yeah, yeah, and11600:09:16.610 --> 00:09:18.730it is very important. We mentionedthis in the article. I would recommend11700:09:18.730 --> 00:09:22.649everyone read the artum article because we'renot going to be able to get into11800:09:22.690 --> 00:09:26.120the depth and the time we have. But one of the things the the11900:09:26.360 --> 00:09:31.679experts say is if there is ahistory of postpartum depression, there is a12000:09:31.879 --> 00:09:37.639greater likelihood and subsequent pregnancies that therewill be postpartum depression. So this woman's12100:09:37.639 --> 00:09:41.190sphere was real. Yeah, Ithink it might have even been her doctor12200:09:41.830 --> 00:09:45.269that had sent her to the abortioncenter, which is so sad and so12300:09:45.389 --> 00:09:48.429terrible because you you may or maynot have postpartum depression, but it is12400:09:48.629 --> 00:09:54.019serious as is debilitating, and itcan truly it can be so severe that12500:09:54.139 --> 00:09:58.980it can affect the mother's ability tobond to the child and the child could12600:09:58.980 --> 00:10:03.700literally be in danger. It isvery important that a professional be involved if12700:10:03.820 --> 00:10:07.450that is in the in the woman'spast. But so some of the symptoms,12800:10:09.169 --> 00:10:13.289so so that that you know thatthis is different, more severe than12900:10:13.409 --> 00:10:18.610just the crying, the tiredness,the sadness or irritability that often accompanies an13000:10:18.610 --> 00:10:24.200exhausted woman following the birth of ababy. But with postpartum depression it's usually13100:10:24.240 --> 00:10:31.279developing within the first few weeks aftergiving birth, may begin earlier during pregnancy.13200:10:31.960 --> 00:10:37.470There's depressed mood and severe mood swings, excessive crying, this is an13300:10:37.509 --> 00:10:41.909important one. Difficulty bonding with thebaby. Yeah, that's different from the13400:10:43.029 --> 00:10:46.509baby blues. Baby Blues. Thereis sadness, there is irritability, but13500:10:46.669 --> 00:10:52.820you love your baby. Yeah,and and the postpartum depressed woman may not13600:10:52.980 --> 00:10:56.940feel that. She may just detach, be detached, yeah, from that13700:10:58.059 --> 00:11:05.649baby. She may withdraw from familyand friends, losing appetite, having insomnia13800:11:05.690 --> 00:11:11.250or sleeping too much, overwhelming fatigue. All of those a company new childbirth.13900:11:11.330 --> 00:11:13.529So you can see why. Sometimesit's hard to differentiate the two,14000:11:13.570 --> 00:11:20.080which is why you got to geta professional in to diagnose hope. Hopelessness14100:11:20.120 --> 00:11:28.279is another sign. Feelings of worthlessness, shame, panic attacks. This is14200:11:28.360 --> 00:11:33.470another really important one. Thoughts ofharming yourself or the baby. Yeah,14300:11:33.509 --> 00:11:39.230again, that's not a normal babybe blue right response. Recurrent thoughts of14400:11:39.350 --> 00:11:43.429death or suicide is a really seriousthing that you should always pay attention to.14500:11:43.629 --> 00:11:48.779Yeah, and if it's left untreated, it can last for many months14600:11:48.820 --> 00:11:54.259or longer, which would, ofcourse, severely affect that the outcome for14700:11:54.379 --> 00:11:56.779that child, because that's such animportant time, yeah, of bonding,14800:11:58.419 --> 00:12:01.090you know, early on. Yeah, absolutely so. So some of the14900:12:01.129 --> 00:12:09.049risk factors. We wrote those downand what I noticed was that a lot15000:12:09.169 --> 00:12:15.250of them are similar risk factors towhat we see in the women we encounter15100:12:15.370 --> 00:12:20.600at the abortion center. Yeah,just in general, financial problems, week15200:12:20.679 --> 00:12:28.759support system, problems with relationships,all those things we see probably in every15300:12:28.840 --> 00:12:33.429woman we meet. Yeah, addedthe abortion center some measure, for sure,15400:12:33.149 --> 00:12:39.110a big one. Pregnancy was unplannedor unwanted. So you know that15500:12:39.470 --> 00:12:46.419you're probably going to run into womenwith postpartum depression. Given these risk factors,15600:12:46.460 --> 00:12:52.460which are so so prevalent in thewomen that come for an abortion.15700:12:52.500 --> 00:13:01.610Yeah, history of depression is particularlyindicative of the chance of postpartum depression.15800:13:03.169 --> 00:13:09.409Come enough. So here we are. The MOM's come in, she's ready15900:13:09.490 --> 00:13:13.519to abort and you know that actually, if she's had it in her past,16000:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.960she's likely to have it again.And so what he's what do you16100:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.799say to her as she's as she'scontemplating abortion? And I think one of16200:13:24.840 --> 00:13:31.590the things that we often say towomen whenever there's a possibility but not a16300:13:31.950 --> 00:13:41.139certainty, that we can use thatsame discussion with a woman with postpartum depression.16400:13:41.179 --> 00:13:46.340Yeah, you may or may nothave postpartum depression, but yeah,16500:13:46.379 --> 00:13:50.899I mean it's similar to those situationswhere you encounter a woman at the abortion16600:13:50.980 --> 00:13:54.700center that says, you know,I had whatever, whatever the disorder was.16700:13:56.049 --> 00:14:00.450High blood pressure, so a commonone during the last pregnancy. Clamps16800:14:00.490 --> 00:14:05.570here exactly problem will have during pregnancy. So they might say they had complications16900:14:05.649 --> 00:14:09.289with their last pregnancy and they don'twant to take a risk this time.17000:14:09.159 --> 00:14:13.399Like you mentioned earlier, their doctorsometimes has counseled them to come to the17100:14:13.440 --> 00:14:18.960abortion center because they had passed issues. And so, yeah, it's important17200:14:18.960 --> 00:14:24.669to remind them that not just becauseyou have a certain thing in your past17300:14:24.789 --> 00:14:28.870does not necessarily mean that thing isgoing to manifest currently. And then I17400:14:28.990 --> 00:14:33.470think you have to either way,we have to confront with the real issue,17500:14:33.710 --> 00:14:37.230is in the real issue is lackof a connection with the Lord,17600:14:37.350 --> 00:14:41.700and you can do that very graciously. You want to bring Jesus into the17700:14:41.779 --> 00:14:45.340equation, right, and the wayI would do that if I was having17800:14:45.379 --> 00:14:48.740this conversation. Well, you needto bring Jesus into the conversation, for17900:14:48.860 --> 00:14:50.340sure, but you also need totalk about the humanity of the baby.18000:14:50.940 --> 00:14:54.490You need to dispel the myth,the lie that that baby is just a18100:14:54.570 --> 00:14:58.409pregnancy, just a process that they'rein. The baby's actually a human being.18200:14:58.490 --> 00:15:01.970So, but bringing Jesus into theequation. If I was to encounter18300:15:01.970 --> 00:15:05.570a woman in this particular scenario,I would first identify with her pain,18400:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.480because I'll ask the question often timesin the course of the conversation, which18500:15:09.600 --> 00:15:11.919so, what makes you feel likethis is something you have to do,18600:15:13.039 --> 00:15:15.759and I can imagine it playing itselfout. I have not yet, just18700:15:16.120 --> 00:15:18.919so you know, I have notyet encountered this. Yeah, I've talked18800:15:18.919 --> 00:15:24.669to women that have had postpartum depression, but not coming to the abortion center18900:15:24.710 --> 00:15:28.590in that particular scenario. Right.Yeah, but so I asked them what19000:15:28.909 --> 00:15:31.830would you what makes you feel likeabortion is an option for you and if19100:15:31.870 --> 00:15:37.379they're sure to come out? Well, I deal strongly with postpartum depression.19200:15:37.700 --> 00:15:43.779My last two children I had aheavy postpartum depression and I just don't want19300:15:43.820 --> 00:15:48.779to deal with that again. Andso my first responsib be man that that's19400:15:48.860 --> 00:15:50.529terrible. I hate that you dealwith that. Yeah, and then I19500:15:50.570 --> 00:15:54.289wur bring Jesus into the equation.Like, you know, God would say19600:15:54.370 --> 00:15:58.809something like do you believe in God? Nine Times out of ten, yeah,19700:15:58.809 --> 00:16:02.009I believe in God. Yeah,so you know God. God sees19800:16:02.090 --> 00:16:06.120that pain, God knows the depression, the struggle, God knows all of19900:16:06.279 --> 00:16:10.120that stuff and he cares about it. And so I bring Jesus into the20000:16:10.159 --> 00:16:12.639equation. I maybe would bring somescripture. The Bible says cast your cares20100:16:12.679 --> 00:16:17.600on the Lord, for he caresfor you. Jesus cares about the stuff20200:16:17.600 --> 00:16:18.950that you're going through. He wantsyou to cast those cares on him.20300:16:18.950 --> 00:16:22.830Yeah, and then I'm going tobe talking about the humanity of the baby.20400:16:22.990 --> 00:16:26.590Hmmm. Do you know that thatthat baby that you carry inside of20500:16:26.629 --> 00:16:30.190your womb is precious to the Lordand even though you might be struggling even20600:16:30.230 --> 00:16:34.419now mentally or had struggled in thepast mentally, your children are a blessing.20700:16:34.460 --> 00:16:37.700Yeah, maybe you carry right now, though she or she's very small,20800:16:37.820 --> 00:16:41.299that baby is alive. Yeah,and then, of course I'll start20900:16:41.340 --> 00:16:44.460talking about, you know, yourbaby's hearts already beating. Yeah, and21000:16:44.580 --> 00:16:48.129then after that, I mean we'retalking probably this is a five minute conversation21100:16:48.169 --> 00:16:52.850or less. I'm pointing them rightto the mobile ultrasound unit or right to21200:16:52.289 --> 00:16:56.889a pregnancy center down the road,right to somewhere other than that place.21300:16:56.929 --> 00:16:59.730They would you be willing just togo down the road to the pregnancy center?21400:16:59.769 --> 00:17:02.879It's fifteen minutes away. Here's theaddress, and they will have a21500:17:02.960 --> 00:17:06.480nurse that will give you a freepregnancy test for ultrasound and they can talk21600:17:06.559 --> 00:17:08.839with you about all this stuff.Yeah, and I like what you're doing21700:17:08.960 --> 00:17:14.720is you're taking her focus off ofher own fears and pain and putting it21800:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.190on another human being, yeah,which is which is that baby, and21900:17:18.430 --> 00:17:21.430also, of course, on thehelp that God. And I liked what22000:17:21.549 --> 00:17:25.470you said that, when you saidthat God knows about out your pain and22100:17:25.589 --> 00:17:30.539your struggle, because so many ofthem describe themselves as feeling like they're all22200:17:30.579 --> 00:17:33.019alone in this and then no oneunderstands. And bring it in the fact22300:17:33.059 --> 00:17:37.900that will God does. God understands. Yeah, and and he's there.22400:17:38.700 --> 00:17:45.329So so those are all good andand and talking about again, of course,22500:17:45.490 --> 00:17:48.690that there's a certainty if you takethe child's life, the baby's dead22600:17:48.849 --> 00:17:52.970and the baby may may or maynot have yeah, well, are you22700:17:52.089 --> 00:17:56.170named? Yeah, would that.Would certainly mention that. Yeah, you22800:17:56.250 --> 00:17:59.640may have had this in the past, but that's no promise that you're going22900:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.960to have this right issue in thefuture. Right, but what is certain?23000:18:03.960 --> 00:18:06.079That's an uncertainty. You're not surethat you're going to have that.23100:18:06.319 --> 00:18:08.599Yeah, but this is certain thatif you go inside of that place,23200:18:08.640 --> 00:18:15.349your baby's right right. Yeah,and then, if possible, if it23300:18:15.470 --> 00:18:19.750was a doctor that sent her there, her doctor, you need to help23400:18:19.789 --> 00:18:23.710find her another doctor. Yeah,it's kind of there are pro life doctors,23500:18:23.789 --> 00:18:29.220in fact, and I spoke withDr Matt because I am hardly an23600:18:29.259 --> 00:18:33.579expert on this. I actually neverexperience postpartum depression myself with any of my23700:18:33.660 --> 00:18:38.980pregnancies. But it is it isserious. Dr Matt said. It can23800:18:40.099 --> 00:18:45.049be very serious and it can leadto severe depressive disorder. So we you.23900:18:45.369 --> 00:18:48.410You do need to take it seriouslyand it does need to be treated24000:18:48.490 --> 00:18:56.000and addressed. But he said theanswer is never killing the baby. Yeah,24100:18:56.119 --> 00:19:00.079there is treatment and so reminding thewoman also and knowing that yourself.24200:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.319I didn't know that. I didn'tknow what they could do for postpartum depression.24300:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.680I thought the woman just had togut through it. But apparently there24400:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.670are drugs that you can even takeduring pregnancy that are safe during pregnancy,24500:19:12.470 --> 00:19:18.710so he said. When I didtalk with Dr Matt he he said that24600:19:19.230 --> 00:19:25.660there are really some important things thatsidewalk volunteer should know. First, that24700:19:25.779 --> 00:19:29.900it can be treated safely and effectively. It is effective. There is good24800:19:30.019 --> 00:19:33.779medication available. Yeah, but healso said, and I thought this was24900:19:33.859 --> 00:19:38.130so important for us as sidewalk counselorsin especially Love Life Ministry, who appoints25000:19:38.210 --> 00:19:44.289mentors to these women. He saidthe woman will require a lot of support25100:19:45.410 --> 00:19:51.450if she's struggling with postpartum depression.So he also made another point. I25200:19:51.650 --> 00:19:55.240do want. I do want maybeyou to to talk a little bit about.25300:19:55.240 --> 00:19:56.839Okay, the woman needs a lotof support. So what are we25400:19:57.039 --> 00:20:02.559then to think and to provide andto think about, you know, as25500:20:02.599 --> 00:20:07.750are follow up with this woman?Yeah, but he also said Post postport25600:20:08.029 --> 00:20:15.710post partum depression, is a realissue. May Or may not occur with25700:20:15.950 --> 00:20:23.180the with that pregnancy, but postabortion traumatic syndrome is also a real issue25800:20:23.700 --> 00:20:29.660and can be devastating. And hesaid if they abhort, they they're adding25900:20:29.700 --> 00:20:33.859a new level of another trauma thatthey are going to have to deal with.26000:20:33.220 --> 00:20:36.809Yeah, which, of course,is is even worse because it's not26100:20:36.930 --> 00:20:40.970only them, but now it's alsoas child. Yeah, so in terms26200:20:41.009 --> 00:20:44.130of the extra support, yeah,well, in terms of the extra support,26300:20:44.170 --> 00:20:48.089I mean I think with if weencounter a woman in this situation,26400:20:48.170 --> 00:20:51.720assuring her that we have churches thatwill walk with their, stand with their26500:20:51.720 --> 00:20:56.680I mean one of the things withany kind of depression is loneliness and people26600:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.119feeling alone, people feeling isolated,people feeling like there's no one that cares,26700:21:00.799 --> 00:21:04.910and letting them know, reassuring themthey're there are people that care.26800:21:04.910 --> 00:21:08.029Yeah, in this city, thisis often times my statement. In this26900:21:08.150 --> 00:21:12.509city they're literally hundreds of churches,with people in those churches that want to27000:21:12.589 --> 00:21:15.789walk with you through this pregnancy?Yeah, can we connect you with one27100:21:15.829 --> 00:21:22.220of them and just letting them know? And I think in these situations not.27200:21:22.259 --> 00:21:25.900I think. I know in thesesituations we need to be very intentional27300:21:25.980 --> 00:21:30.900about how the words that we use. We need to be very intentional about27400:21:30.900 --> 00:21:34.450the tone of our voice, weneed to be very intentional about really understanding27500:21:34.529 --> 00:21:41.250this person's in mental anguish. Thisperson is struggling mentally and though we mightn't27600:21:41.329 --> 00:21:45.809connect with that, like, certainlyagain, I can't. Next with postpartum27700:21:45.849 --> 00:21:51.000depression. And really, you know, I've been bummed before, but I've27800:21:51.039 --> 00:21:55.640never been like clinically depressed. Idon't know what all of that entails,27900:21:55.759 --> 00:21:57.440you know, when you start talkingabout medications and all that stuff, like,28000:21:59.079 --> 00:22:00.710I don't know about all that stuff. I don't know that world of28100:22:02.589 --> 00:22:07.269medicine and I have some skepticism aboutthat right, about psychiatric drugs and how28200:22:07.309 --> 00:22:10.309good they are and all that stuff. But just because I have some skepticism28300:22:10.349 --> 00:22:12.910about it doesn't mean I write itoff completely. And again I try to28400:22:12.950 --> 00:22:15.339stay in my lane. Right now. I don't know about all that stuff.28500:22:15.339 --> 00:22:18.259So I'm one of the things I'mnot going to do is I'm not28600:22:18.259 --> 00:22:21.259going to Poopoo that stuff. Hey, I'm going to ride away if I28700:22:21.420 --> 00:22:25.859can get her away from that abortioncenter. And then with some follow up,28800:22:25.900 --> 00:22:29.259let's say I've sent her to thepregnancy center down the road, I've28900:22:29.299 --> 00:22:32.890gotten her contact info, I'll probablywould hand it off to you or one29000:22:32.890 --> 00:22:34.930of the female counselors at that point. Yeah, the follow up from that29100:22:36.049 --> 00:22:40.569would be connecting her with a medicalprofessional, or at least following up and29200:22:40.609 --> 00:22:42.970saying, Hey, did the pregnancycenter that they help get you connected with29300:22:44.009 --> 00:22:47.400a medical professional, because quite likelythat that could happen if she shared with29400:22:47.559 --> 00:22:49.039them, and she may not haveshared with them. So it might be29500:22:49.200 --> 00:22:53.200on you to connect her with themedical professional. Yeah, and then again29600:22:53.640 --> 00:22:57.480following up with can we connect youwith a mentor, because to me that29700:22:57.710 --> 00:23:03.910may even go further than connecting herwith a doctor or some kind of counselor29800:23:03.029 --> 00:23:07.470something like that. The fact thatthere are people in this thing with her29900:23:07.470 --> 00:23:11.390who could be then invite her tochurch. I mean, listen, God30000:23:11.470 --> 00:23:15.980can break through in those situation andalleviate any kind of depression, fear of30100:23:15.059 --> 00:23:18.460depression, and I think that's whatwe're talking about really. We're not talking30200:23:18.500 --> 00:23:23.900about maybe dealing with the actual depressionor encounter woman at the abortion center.30300:23:25.019 --> 00:23:27.690We're talking about dealing with the fearthat that could happen exactly. Although you30400:23:27.769 --> 00:23:32.529know, down the road, weI. If Mentor or a counselor is30500:23:32.569 --> 00:23:34.769following a woman through the birth oftheir child, you may encounter someone who's30600:23:34.769 --> 00:23:38.849actually then in depression. But rightnow this situation that arose was just the30700:23:40.009 --> 00:23:42.519fear. Yeah, of what Ithink for me, like just going through30800:23:42.640 --> 00:23:47.720this. I breezed through this articlewhen you sent it over, but I'm30900:23:47.720 --> 00:23:52.240learning something like to me this prettyprofound, which is that not? I31000:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.470mean a new postpartum depression was areal thing. Yeah, but didn't really31100:23:56.549 --> 00:24:00.230understand, like, gosh, it'smore than just their bum because they don't31200:24:00.230 --> 00:24:03.269have a baby anymore. Else kindof what my thinking was, like they're31300:24:03.269 --> 00:24:07.990missing the fact that they're pregnant orwhatever. Yeah, this is more than31400:24:08.109 --> 00:24:11.980what you, I guess, whatthey call the baby blues. And so31500:24:11.259 --> 00:24:15.460to me this is enlightening at leastknowing that this is a this is a31600:24:15.539 --> 00:24:19.180reality for yeah, and it andwhat what went through my mind with I31700:24:19.299 --> 00:24:25.210think like you said, I thinkthe mentorship is critical, very critical for31800:24:25.329 --> 00:24:27.690this woman. She's going to needa lot of support. Is What Dr31900:24:27.769 --> 00:24:32.890Matt said and what the art ofwhat the articles I read said. There32000:24:33.089 --> 00:24:37.450for the Church or whoever is apointing a mentor, if your city does32100:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.960that, and I hope that moreand more cities will be doing that,32200:24:41.000 --> 00:24:45.680a mentor from a with the backingof a church to follow this woman.32300:24:45.400 --> 00:24:49.480That mentor needs to know this isgoing to be intense, because there are32400:24:49.559 --> 00:24:53.470some people who are willing to takethat on as a mentor. Yeah,32500:24:53.829 --> 00:24:57.990there are different levels of what peopleare willing to give as a mentor and32600:24:59.109 --> 00:25:02.190in in this case this is goingto be someone that is it's going to32700:25:02.269 --> 00:25:04.589be intense, and so it needsto be a mentor who is willing to32800:25:06.230 --> 00:25:08.700be involved in the ideal one wouldprobably be someone who has been through it32900:25:08.940 --> 00:25:15.339herself. But we wrote out alist of things that we should do as33000:25:15.460 --> 00:25:21.059as sidewalk counselors, and I thinkthose are important. They're kind of the33100:25:21.099 --> 00:25:27.769the take home list. All right, but don't minimize the issue is is33200:25:29.569 --> 00:25:34.650the first thing, which we've said, a doctor needs to know she's pregnant33300:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.880and worried about postpartum depression? Ifso, you need to find that out.33400:25:40.279 --> 00:25:44.759Yeah, recommend a second opinion.If a doctor has referred her to33500:25:44.839 --> 00:25:48.240the abortion center. Yeah, thenfor sure she definitely doesn't need to go33600:25:48.319 --> 00:25:49.950back to that. You need togo find not only a second opinion,33700:25:49.990 --> 00:25:55.630you need a new doctor. Yeah, talking about that treatment is available.33800:25:55.670 --> 00:25:59.150Oftentimes just knowing that will help them. Yeah, they may not. They33900:25:59.190 --> 00:26:03.750may not have known that speaking witha high risk doctor, having that available,34000:26:03.740 --> 00:26:07.619reminding her it's temporary. I don'tknow if we mentioned that so far,34100:26:07.779 --> 00:26:14.259but that's really important and this isa good counseling technique for anyone we34200:26:14.339 --> 00:26:18.049encounter at the abortion center. They'reusually in a situation that's temporary. Yeah,34300:26:18.130 --> 00:26:22.569yeah, a good statement is don'temploy a permanent solution for a temporary34400:26:22.650 --> 00:26:26.849theiry issue. Yeah, exact portionis a permanent yeah. Yeah, it's34500:26:26.930 --> 00:26:30.450permanent in the sense that it permanentlyends the life of a baby. Yeah,34600:26:32.009 --> 00:26:33.880and I didn't write this one downin the article, but it occurred34700:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.839to me to be on the lookoutof women who have an unusual level of34800:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.480detachment from the baby growing in them, and I have seen that. I've34900:26:44.559 --> 00:26:48.750never heard it labeled as postpartum depressionbefore. Yeah, but I had one35000:26:48.789 --> 00:26:52.349woman, I think we spoke abouther in the past some other podcast,35100:26:52.710 --> 00:26:56.910that kept saying she agreed with everythingI said but kept saying, I just35200:26:56.029 --> 00:26:59.589don't want this baby. Yeah,I don't love this baby, I don't35300:26:59.630 --> 00:27:06.220want this baby. Had I knownmore about postpartum depression, that statement might35400:27:06.259 --> 00:27:10.500have been a tipoff to me.Is there something more than just sin?35500:27:10.859 --> 00:27:15.700Yeah, is there something going onthat is chemic cold, which I assume35600:27:15.049 --> 00:27:18.690that it has to do the wholeamount of moments right, issues and things35700:27:18.730 --> 00:27:22.089like that. One of the thingsthat comes to mind for me is that35800:27:22.210 --> 00:27:26.130we do often times see, andso I said, I don't know that35900:27:26.170 --> 00:27:32.039I've ever encountered that situation, butI quite possibly didn't just didn't know about36000:27:32.079 --> 00:27:34.920it, because oftentimes, but wedo see is somebody come to the abortion36100:27:36.000 --> 00:27:40.000center who just had a baby,right they when we see a lot women36200:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.440come in with a baby carrier,not just a car seat but a baby36300:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.589carrier in the backs, that theythey have a newborn in the car and36400:27:45.670 --> 00:27:49.750just got pregnant again. Yeah,and it could be. I mean I36500:27:51.069 --> 00:27:55.029think more than anything else, it'slike, well, we don't want to36600:27:55.029 --> 00:27:59.420have another baby right now because financially, your relation or whatever, we don't36700:27:59.420 --> 00:28:02.259want to do this. But itcould be that postpartum depression thing. Yep,36800:28:02.420 --> 00:28:04.299there's dealing with that from that lastpregnancy. Yeah, being able to36900:28:04.339 --> 00:28:07.660speak to that acknowledge that, Ithink, could be helpful. or a37000:28:07.779 --> 00:28:11.500flat affect. I've seen that thereally flat affect as the women are looking37100:28:11.500 --> 00:28:15.609at their baby on the ultrasound.That's not normal. That is not normal37200:28:15.809 --> 00:28:21.410and it didn't occur to me thatthat could be another tipoff of is there37300:28:21.609 --> 00:28:26.130some sort of a depression, apostpartum depression, going on? The last37400:28:26.289 --> 00:28:30.759point is just keep pointing her tofocus on God, and we added it37500:28:30.920 --> 00:28:34.000some verses at the end of thisarticle to help. But never neglect that37600:28:34.160 --> 00:28:38.119just because it's serious, just becauseit's real. This is a real medical37700:28:38.160 --> 00:28:44.390condition that does need to be addressed, but that doesn't mean you neglect.37800:28:44.430 --> 00:28:49.230Yeah, helping them to put theirfocus on God and right minding them to37900:28:49.589 --> 00:28:55.390really trust him and turn their livesover to him. So I think that's38000:28:55.859 --> 00:29:00.380that's basically what what what we discovered. I you know, we re these38100:29:00.539 --> 00:29:06.220through this, but if anyone hasfurther questions. Of course feel free to38200:29:07.099 --> 00:29:11.930contact us and and do some researchon your own. It's I think it's38300:29:11.009 --> 00:29:15.490more important than I had realized themore that I researched it. Yeah,38400:29:15.569 --> 00:29:19.009and I would say it's good tohave in your phone. This is what38500:29:19.089 --> 00:29:22.410I do a lot of times withdifferent topics and things like that. I'll38600:29:22.450 --> 00:29:26.200look for articles and then on myphone I'll save in the notes section a38700:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.720link to that article, and that'ssomething you could actually you could text it38800:29:30.839 --> 00:29:33.680over to somebody if you're I meanto me. I can think in my38900:29:33.759 --> 00:29:36.119scenario, if I'm dealing with adad on the sidewalk, he says,39000:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.349well, she's in there because he'sdealing with this was part of them depression39100:29:38.470 --> 00:29:41.950and just really doesn't want to haveanother baby and deal with this again.39200:29:42.509 --> 00:29:45.029A man, can I shoot youof an article just for years to check39300:29:45.069 --> 00:29:48.950out? I'm going to encourage himalong those lines. Yeah, I do39400:29:48.109 --> 00:29:51.069think, though, of course.You know I've said we need to be39500:29:51.230 --> 00:29:53.539careful with our tone and we needto be careful with our language. You39600:29:53.539 --> 00:29:59.619don't want to come across as likejudge or condemning, but we do need39700:29:59.619 --> 00:30:03.819to be forthright, we do needto set out the reality like you understand39800:30:03.859 --> 00:30:06.220it. You're going to kill yourbaby if you get through with an abortion.39900:30:06.339 --> 00:30:07.970I don't think we dance around that. I think we tell the truth.40000:30:07.970 --> 00:30:12.809Yeah, we do it graciously,as graciously as possible, but yeah,40100:30:12.890 --> 00:30:15.329for me to take away is justacknowledging that this is a thing,40200:30:15.410 --> 00:30:18.130that this is an issue. Soand encourage you guys just to look for40300:30:18.250 --> 00:30:22.240articles that you can have maybe,like I do, save it in your40400:30:22.279 --> 00:30:26.079phone. Yeah, check out thisarticle. Sidewalks for lifecom is where we40500:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.480put these articles out. Maybe atsome point the future will mesh the two40600:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.359websites, the website for the podcastspecifically in the website that we have the40700:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.990articles on together, but for nowyou can go find the article sidewalks for40800:30:37.109 --> 00:30:41.589lifecom. That's our training and equippingwebsite as well. So just some sidewalk40900:30:41.630 --> 00:30:45.589training and stuff that are there.Beyond the articles, we have other things,41000:30:45.630 --> 00:30:48.470videos and stuff, and then,of course, the podcast website,41100:30:48.950 --> 00:30:53.539Gospel centered prolifecom to check out ourpodcasts and be able to search for keywords41200:30:53.579 --> 00:30:56.539and things like that for subjects thatwe've covered in the past. We do41300:30:56.619 --> 00:31:00.940appreciate you guys listening and if youneed to reach out to me, you41400:31:00.980 --> 00:31:03.690can reach me Daniel at Love LifeDot Org. You reach her Vicky at41500:31:03.769 --> 00:31:07.329Love Life Dot Org. We'd loveto hear from you, but until next41600:31:07.329 --> 00:31:18.680time, God bless God, blessY'all our love for love. Give me41700:31:19.480 --> 00:31:32.720our love for gratitude. I knowit will cost me my life. Nothing's41800:31:32.839 --> 00:31:34.470too precious in some you