Ministering to Families With a Negative Fetal Diagnosis

0:00 Human beings have an intrinsic value, not because of traits that they have or don't have, but because of the fact that they're human beings. I Am Yours, I'm yours, I'm yours, and me, Lord, I'm yours, I'm yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel centered pro life podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge you in pro life ministry, and always with a focus on the Gospel. Stay tuned. I felt your past touch your heart. Use either. Everyone. Welcome to the Gospel centered pro life podcast. I'm welcome. I'm welcome, welcome, and this is Daniel Parks. Listen to me. And so today's topic again is from one of our listeners who contacted us and said she had not heard us discuss the issue of fetal disability or special needs children and the rise in abortion of that population.

1:11 And also how do you address a mom at an abortion center who says that is the reason for her abortion? Now we've sort of touched what we have definitely touched on that in many podcasts, but we haven't dedicated a whole podcast to that subject and we felt that was an important Um, yeah, absolutely important topic. Yeah, so she had sent an article that I read and I posted the link to that article in the article that I wrote on this topic. But one of the disturbing trends following Roe v Wade being overturned is that even some of the states that had nearly full protection laws prior to Roe v Wade are now adding an exception for fetal abnormality. And so when I liked what they said, the way that they stated the issue, so I'm just gonna read this is straight out of that article. You can find that article again, go to the article I wrote. It's it's an online publication, I think Washington stand dot Com, I think, is the name of it. But so the quote is State legislator leaders have caved to the emotional pull of these stories, and that's the stories of of fetal abnormality, particularly that the child, the condition of the child, is truly incompatible with life. So they're going to be either born dead or they're going to be

2:44 born and have minutes. Is that to live? Changing total protections for the unborn to protections for the unborn, accept Um and then accept dot, dot dot. So, in fact, when Indiana passed their nearly nearly full protection law for the unborn earlier this month, they did so specifically excluding people prenatally diagnosed with a lethal fetal anomaly, anomaly up to twenty weeks just station. This is especially notable as, prior to the overturn of row, Indiana was one of just six states that protected unborn children with any chromosomal um abnormality from eugenic abortions. So they're back stepping, their backpedaling on full protection to now they're adding this and and I'm not sure why that's happening, but the author said that this is Um a disturbing trend and we need to counter that.

3:45 We need to talk about it and we need to know how to counter it. Um Not not for you and I on the sidewalk, maybe not necessarily politically or with laws, but certainly how do we counter that when we encounter mobs who say my baby is gonna die, maybe before being born, but certainly after birth, that the condition is so severe? Or what we face more commonly is there is some sort of abnormality, down syndrome being probably the most common um and so they they feel that they need to kill the baby as opposed to face that. Yeah, I think for our purposes. It's it's kind of a twofold issue because there is there is a higher kind of higher level way to view this as a nation Um. And then as far as like the overturning of Roe v way, we understand and we believe that Roe v way should be overturned. And ultimately, I believe, and hopefully everyone that listens to this podcast believes, that there should be some kind of constitutional protection for every human being, born or unborn. You're a human being, you deserve to be protected under the law of these United States of America.

4:59 And again, if you're a human being, doesn't matter what abnormalities you have, if you're a human being, you should be protected under the law. So that's the higher level thing that we really need to understand it we really need to push for. As believers in Jesus, human beings are precious. Human beings have an intrinsic value, not because of traits that they have or don't have, but because of the fact that they're human beings. Human beings are made in the image of God. Human beings with down syndrome are made in the image of God, human beings with trusting on me Um eighteen, one of those or thirteen, these different fetal abnormalities that are chromosotal issues, are human beings made in the image of God, right. Um, whatever the other dwarf is, M is another issue. There are severe forms of dwarfism that can cause, you know, all kinds of issues to a baby that is uh, that's born with those issues. They're still human beings made in the image of God, and so we have to have it fixed in our hearts in our minds that that is the right stance to take right it, regardless of what Indiana does or any other state does. The right stands to take is that human beings have an intrinsic value and deserve to be protected under the law and we can't kill them just because, um, just because of issues that they have. We can't kill them just because issues that they might call use for their family or whatever, because it really what we're doing is we're, like you said, their Indiana is backpedaling here. You're

6:30 essentially saying that human beings are precious deserve to be protected under the law unless they have this issue or that issue. Right now, I know it can get more granular and can get more difficult. No one's pretending that these situations are easy to deal with. Their heartbreaking. Now I mean knowing to carry a baby for nine months only to know with, I guess, a lot of certainty, that Um that that baby will only live very briefly. So it is heartbreaking, there's no doubt about it. But there are things we can say or appoint those parents too, that can help them to deal with this in a God honoring way. Yeah, yeah, and that's ultimately the point is. We want to honor Jesus, we want to honor God.

7:15 And when you know you get a bad diagnosis, whatever that diagnosis might be, whether it's for the baby or for the mother, we understand there's fear, there's concerns, there's things that we ought to be concerned about, but when we go to well, the doctor has said this and so it's absolutely here's going to be the result that we don't leave any space for the Lord to do his thing right, we don't leave any space for doctors to be wrong, we don't leave any space for God to intervene miraculously. I'm thinking of a story, Um, just off the top of my head, and I don't know all the details because it happened several years ago, but it was a couple that actually me and my wife went to school with, and their child was diagnosed, and this was actually in the local newspaper from the city that we're from. Um, this I was diagnosed with Um, some kind of rare brain disorder, and they were told that they should abort because this child is going to be born basically brain dead, not going to be a functioning individual. They're gonna have to care for this child, even if, you know, if the child even lives beyond birth, they're gonna have to care for this child for the rest of this child's life. Um, Lo and behold, the doctors were wrong. This child did have some issues, but they were not issues that merited, I mean no issue merits killing that child, but they are not issues that merited the level of fear that the doctors. Um, we're really instilling in these people. Now, I don't mean to say that when doctors do this every time are they trying to convince people to abort their child, but doctors do a lot of times operate in a spirit of fear. And let's remember, even though some doctors think

8:48 they are, no one is God except for God himself. Right, and so we have to leave space for God to be God. As a society and individually, we have to least leave space for God to be God and for him to work miraculously. And you know kind of where I was going with this is this is twofold. We need to understand that on a national leveling to understand that and kind of, Um, a philosophical level. Right, we've got to understand every human being is precious and deserves to be protected under the law period. Second, though, we're gonna deal with women at the abortion centers. You maybe already have those who are listening a certainly know we already have dealt with women and uh, families that say that their child has this fetal abnormality and therefore they feel like they need to abort, and so we're gonna really dig into that in this article. Um, how do you answer that? How do you give them some assurance that God's with them?

9:46 How you give them assurance that they're doing the right thing if they turn away from abortion? How do you give them kind of the reality check that if they do have an abortion, it's not okay just because their their baby has issues? Right? So how do yeah, and the first way or the first method that I always point out, you already mentioned, when always remember the doctors can be wrong. They can be wrong. We have so many stories of that. We have stories personally, just in in our time out on the sidewalk, and the Internet is filled with them. There was one that I remember. I do look for these stories on on Facebook, on the Internet, because I remember them and I can use those stories to reassure the women that they should at the very least get a second opinion.

10:37 But Um, but this story was of a baby similar to the story you told that and they showed pictures this. These parents showed pictures of the baby's brain and there was the baby had like a third, if that, of the brain. The rest of the brain just wasn't there. And there was a condition, whatever. It is very rare, whatever it was called, and the Um, the baby was Um, was born and they did a living which was a shock to them because they said the condition was absolutely incompatible with life. The baby was born and the doctors were just absolutely dumbfounded when they did whatever scan of the baby's head because they don't know why this baby is living and the brain was like it grown back. They said there was.

11:30 There was zero chance of that happen medically. Zero Um and they said it was just that it was nothing short of an a miracle. A miracle, and the baby's fine. I mean there are issues, like you said with your friend, there are issues, but the baby is alive. That I think the baby is expected to live and the brain apparently is still developing in ways that the doctors just absolutely never believed possible. The one caution I would say is that while doctors can and be wrong, they can also be correct and we don't want to give a false hope that is going to put this woman on an emotional roller coaster. Um, but we, I do think we are always called to say, have you gotten a second opinion, because so often they have not. Yeah, oftentimes too. You have to understand that the doctors, because they're in a position of authority, and steal a lot of fear and hopelessness. And again, I don't know that they're trying to do that. I think some are. Some think that their God and they think that their word is holds more weight than God's word, but most are just trying to be you know, they're trying to be honest, they're trying to be accurate. They're trying not to give false hope and so they tend to lean more towards the negative rather than hey, maybe they're maybe I could you're wrong. You know, doctors don't oftentimes like to admit that

13:03 they could be wrong and the medical tests can be wrong and Um, so I think always mentioning that is important and not doing it in such a way where you're trying to get them to mistrust their doctor. Right, if they're well, I'd say this, if their doctor has told them to come to the abortion clinic to kill their child, then yes, I definitely want to pit them against their doctor. I do because that doctor has basically affirmed the idea that it's okay to murder a child because they have a disability. Right, and that doctor, to me, is he's went against his oath, right his his oath is to do no harm and he's decided that he's he's gonna encourage a woman to do harm to her child. He's not doing his job as a doctor. So I will say you shouldn't trust that doctor.

13:46 Help, let us help you get a second opinion. But the fear that these doctors and still, because they're in this position of authority in the sense is like understandable. They're the guys that are supposed to know. They're the folks that are supposed to get the stuff right, and they could get suit if, if this baby is born with this condition and they haven't fully warned, woman, they do need to be. Yeah, Um, but again, we're still we're dealing with human life, and so we want to to me, that's constantly what you're touching on. This is a human being, whatever their issues might be, just because they may have disabilities or may not. Um, there's still a human being. But also, I want to address that this one statement that you'll hear in these um scenarios. oftentimes it's incompatible with life. This baby is incompatible with life, this feat is, whatever terms they want to use, is incompatible with life. Um, okay.

14:45 If that's the case, though, they're going to be born and their condition is incompatible with life, so they're gonna die shortly after they're born. That's really a self conflicting statement. If the baby, though it might have, he or she might have complications, if they're alive in the womb, they're not incompatible with life. They're already alive. So to say that a baby in the womb because it has this fetal abnormality is incompatible with life. When it's born, it's gonna die immediately. You're conflicting what you're saying. It can't die if it's not alive. Right, that baby is already alive and I think I always touch on that. You don't remedy someone's suffering by causing more suffering. Think about what an abortion does. An abortion kills a human being. It causes suffering. Right, it's gonna stop a heart that's already beating, and so this idea that it's incompatible with life, this baby is incompatible with life is absurd. If the baby is already alive, it's very much compatible with life. Now we know that it's the mother's body that's sustaining that child's life. That's the way God designed it to be. Again, we've got to leave space for God to do what only he can do, just like in Sich wations where a child has cancer or something like that.

16:03 Those are terrible situations, but we don't give the child a lethal injection because they're going to suffer with cancer. Right. We we do everything we can to intervene until we can't intervene anymore. And what do we do? We leave it in God's hands. Right. Yeah, and you've touched onto two of the next main points that were brought out, Um, in the article that we're going to be putting out with this podcast. Uh. The second thing is reaffirmed the sanctity of human life. Always go back to that. Like you said, that should probably be the number one thing really on on this article. Is the sanctity of human life supersede to everything, everything else. And then what you said. The potential for suffering does not justify murder. I mean, honestly, the potential for suffering is true in every single human being on earth. On Earth we will all suffer and when some of us will suffer terribly, but that doesn't mean that murder should be the answer to suffering. Um. One of the verses that came to me was some thirty four eighteen. The Lord is near to the broken hearted and saves the Christian Spirit. We will suffer, all of us will suffer on earth, but remember that God is near to us through through suffering, and Um and glorifying God is certainly the antidote. Not Um, not just define God and and killing that innocent life. One of the things, of course, related to that is is the fourth point in this article that you can use

17:33 to speak to the MOM. So I want to kind of give those main points to make sure no one misses them. Second opinion, remember the doctors can be wrong. Reaffirm the sanctity of human life. Potential for suffering does not justify murder. And the next one is that really none of us know how long we will live. None of us so. And there are again countless personal testimonies of baby is born with very serious complications, where the doctor said this baby will not live seconds beyond birth, where the baby does live. and Um. So I get the argument. I understand the argument. I don't want to carry a baby for nine months to then undergo the incredible pain of watching that child die before my eyes minutes after I've delivered. I think you cannot gloss over the suffering that will cause the mother. It will, it would be. I cannot imagine the pain of that. So I totally get that. But I think what what is absent in just focusing on that is but look what the blessing is. The blessing is a little human being got to know the those few precious moments of being loved and seen.

18:59 Usually, in most cases, the MOM is able to hold that child, the family can hold that child. And again, I have seen so many personal testimonies of Moms who have faced that, have had their their baby die within minutes and said, while it was incredibly painful, there was so much joy and blessing and having been able to hold that child for those brief moments. Yeah, I think one of the most important things, as it pertains to us, minister, on the sidewalk, will we encounter these situations, is to answer it with compassion, yes, right, to identify with their pain. You guys have heard me talk about compassion calm, which means with breaking down that word calm, the prefix with, and then passion actually means suffering. So to have compassion means to suffer with them, to enter into their suffering. The Bible says we weep with those that weep, we mourn with those who mourn. If you encounter a mom family on the sidewalk that comes to the abortion center and they say our baby has this issue, doctor says this baby is incompatible with life, we feel like we have to do this. We don't go through all the pain. We want to identify with that suffering, we want to identify with that struggle, right enter into their suffering with them. But I do think again, these personal testimonies, whether personal testimonies like we talked about, of times where doctors have been wrong, but also personal testimonies of you know, even if you go through this and

20:29 that baby does die after he or she is born, is at least you love that child as much as you could, either than coming to a place like this and subjecting that baby and yourself to a place that kills children from money. Yeah, that was you. You exactly touched on where I was. What I was going to add is, is you save yourself from the remorse and sorrow of having taken that child's life yourself, your that baby dying at your hand, or at your permission at best, as opposed to the baby dying once it was born and having experienced at least a few moments of joy, of being held and known by his parents? Yeah, and then there can be on our part, though, just so we understand, no pretense that these are easy situations and no kind of flippant response, but it still doesn't justify killing your baby. That's the reality. But, like I've said before, you can be you can be technically right, but but relationally wrong, and we always want to answer it with compassion and also understand two and this is because people will lie to you, all right, we we've talked about that, what to do when we think that they're lying. People can lie to you and I've heard people make up scenarios like my baby has down syndrome or my baby has trusting on me eighteen or whatever. My baby is gonna be dead when my baby doesn't have a brain or whatever. You can almost always tell that they're lying when they come over to you and kind

22:00 of this arrogant demeanor. Most of the time people in this scenario, if they do talk to you, they're gonna be super humbled, right, they're gonna be broken hearted, and you can read that situation. Um. But even if you do have someone that comes over and they're arrogant and they're prideful and they tell you their baby has this whatever issue, you don't want to push back with saying well, that doesn't matter. You still want to answer with compassion, you still want to give them the benefit of the doubt. But oftentimes when you do encounter these situations, they're gonna be humbled already, they're gonna be broken already. And for you guys, you love Jesus, it's not gonna be hard for you to enter into their suffering with them. Prayer is very important. Can I just pray with you? Sometimes, we always we want to put words in where actually we need to put prayer in.

22:48 We wanna, we want to add in opinions and our opinions, and really we need to bring God into the situation, and so I would always just say, can I pray with you and invite God into the situation. Help this couple and, like we talked about, you're praying for them, but you're also praying at them. Helped this couple to see that their baby has value, is loved and known by you, and that this place is actually a place of darkness, because to me, if they're going through a struggle like this, the last place they need to be is inside of planned parenthood or one of the latrobe abortion center, where it's full of darkness, it's full of death. There are women in there just flippantly killing their children when they're going through one of the worst situations that anyone could be in right.

23:30 It's the worst place that they could be in my opinion, on so many levels. But Um, uh, sharing personal testimonies are are we've already touched on that and that was kind of the last major point of something that you can offer to them. But there is also help available, and this was new to me. Actually, I'm really grateful to this reader or this listener who sent me that article article, because in the article there was a resource I was unfamiliar you're with, and I think everybody needs to have this on their resource list. I did explore this, this Um resource. I went to the website, I I read all the dropdown menus and it's fantastic.

24:12 It's called be not afraid and the website is on our article, be not afraid dot net. So it's a national organization. It's centered here in, I believe, concord, North Carolina, so it's out of North Carolina, but it is national and it actually its purpose is to help parents who have been given a diagnosis of fetal abnormalities. So it is first and foremost, the first thing I look for is okay, is it pro life or is there a chance they would say well, with certain abnormalities, they would recommend abortion. That is not the case. They would never recommend abortion. It's it's based on the truth that all human life is valuable and that, basically, abortion should never be considered to deal with the very real issues of fetal abnormalities. So some of the stuff it helps with mentors resources and strategies so that parents feel better equipped to welcome their child to the world. And so there's a case management team that will be appointed Um to to that those parents and they some of the help that they provided that was listed on the website Um include a birth plan, depending on what the diagnosis is, the local resources that they can connect the parents with, education about the disability and what the parents need to know to be able to parent this child or even just deal with the birth of the child. BERIEVE mint how to deal with

25:45 the grief following if the child does die. They even help with funeral cost if that is necessary, and guidance if if the child dies, and then they do ongoing support and contact for a full year following the child's firths. So they could be following these moms for, you know, potentially a year and nine months, and it just it sounds incredible, like a great resources resource. So everybody should look that up and get them on their um on their resource list in your area. And then the final area is not to forget, and Daniel, I know you'll love dealing with this one, the role of the Church and in walking alongside these these MOMS, these families.

26:32 Yeah, and, as often as said, the church is called to be the hands and feet of Jesus. We are called to walk alongside these families again, to to grieve with those that grieve, to mourn with those that weren't, to weep with those that weep, but also practically to help these families. We have mentors all across the nation and, Um, I know God is raising up people that have been in situations similar into this of seeing God miraculously make connections with families that are struggling with some of the same things. God, God, already has a mentor in a church in that city that can come alongside that mom who has gone through a similar situation. Um, and so just, you know, leveraging the church, the connections with the churches. Um, I know that this ministry it's in Mooresville. I've just looked it up, moville. So it's not not far from where we are right now, and I've actually heard about them in the past. Now that I'm thinking about this, Um is connected to a local church right this is the hands and feed of Jesus, is the body of Christ working together, coming alongside these families. So there's various ways that the church can do that, and I think one of the main things, though, is the mentor program walking alongside these families if they decided to not not to go through with the abortion, but also if they decided to go through with the abortion, we still want to be there with them, speaking the truth, coming alongside them, Um, speaking what God's words say us and turning them to Jesus. Ultimately, the job of the church is to point people to Jesus

28:06 Christ, and that's what we always want to be doing for these families and what other families are are struggling with various situations, as your scripture says here at the end of your article, bear one one of those burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ. The Law of Christ is summed up in one word love. And as much as we would want someone to come alongside us in a difficult situation like that, we need to come alongside them. Amen, Amen, and and just. Um. I hope this article will encourage every sidewalk counselor to not be afraid to deal biblically with this situation. The death of the baby is not the answer. Um, the an abortion is not the answer. To trust that, that God. Maybe this is a good article to help you know, empower you to feel you you can approach these families with love and Biblical Truth and hopefully still save a life. Yeah, yeah, Amen. Well, guys, we hope that this was in Ancouragement to you. Guys. Hope that this equipped you, guess, to be more effective on the sidewalk. If, like this article started from an email from someone who listens, we appreciate you send it in this question and Um, if you guys have something similar topic, something you've not seen us cover thus far in an episode, we'd love to hear from you. You can reach out to meet Daniel at Love Life Dot Org. You reach her Vicky with a hy at Love Life Dot Org. We'd love to hear from you. Please also leave us a review on whatever podcast service that you use.

29:27 Share this podcast with others and until next time, God bless God. Bless you all. Give me our love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious, and some you, M M M