Ministering to Families With a Negative Fetal Diagnosis

WEBVTT100:00:00.120 --> 00:00:04.240Human beings have an intrinsic value,not because of traits that they have or200:00:04.280 --> 00:00:09.240don't have, but because of thefact that they're human beings. I Am300:00:09.320 --> 00:00:16.239Yours, I'm yours, I'm yours, and me, Lord, I'm yours,400:00:16.600 --> 00:00:21.359I'm yours. I'm welcome to theGospel centered pro life podcast, a500:00:21.440 --> 00:00:27.120podcast designed to equip, encourage andchallenge you in pro life ministry, and600:00:27.239 --> 00:00:34.079always with a focus on the Gospel. Stay tuned. I felt your past700:00:35.280 --> 00:00:47.159touch your heart. Use either.Everyone. Welcome to the Gospel centered pro800:00:47.280 --> 00:00:52.240life podcast. I'm welcome. I'mwelcome, welcome, and this is Daniel900:00:52.280 --> 00:00:57.640Parks. Listen to me. Andso today's topic again is from one of1000:00:57.679 --> 00:01:03.320our listeners who contacted us and saidshe had not heard us discuss the issue1100:01:03.359 --> 00:01:11.840of fetal disability or special needs childrenand the rise in abortion of that population.1200:01:11.959 --> 00:01:17.000And also how do you address amom at an abortion center who says1300:01:17.040 --> 00:01:21.760that is the reason for her abortion? Now we've sort of touched what we1400:01:21.799 --> 00:01:26.599have definitely touched on that in manypodcasts, but we haven't dedicated a whole1500:01:26.640 --> 00:01:30.120podcast to that subject and we feltthat was an important Um, yeah,1600:01:30.120 --> 00:01:36.560absolutely important topic. Yeah, soshe had sent an article that I read1700:01:36.680 --> 00:01:42.519and I posted the link to thatarticle in the article that I wrote on1800:01:42.680 --> 00:01:52.120this topic. But one of thedisturbing trends following Roe v Wade being overturned1900:01:52.799 --> 00:01:59.519is that even some of the statesthat had nearly full protection laws prior to2000:01:59.640 --> 00:02:08.800Roe v Wade are now adding anexception for fetal abnormality. And so when2100:02:08.840 --> 00:02:14.680I liked what they said, theway that they stated the issue, so2200:02:14.719 --> 00:02:16.680I'm just gonna read this is straightout of that article. You can find2300:02:16.719 --> 00:02:21.719that article again, go to thearticle I wrote. It's it's an online2400:02:22.080 --> 00:02:25.479publication, I think Washington stand dotCom, I think, is the name2500:02:25.520 --> 00:02:30.479of it. But so the quoteis State legislator leaders have caved to the2600:02:30.479 --> 00:02:36.199emotional pull of these stories, andthat's the stories of of fetal abnormality,2700:02:36.199 --> 00:02:40.240particularly that the child, the conditionof the child, is truly incompatible with2800:02:40.319 --> 00:02:44.360life. So they're going to beeither born dead or they're going to be2900:02:44.439 --> 00:02:50.800born and have minutes. Is thatto live? Changing total protections for the3000:02:50.960 --> 00:02:57.039unborn to protections for the unborn,accept Um and then accept dot, dot3100:02:57.080 --> 00:03:00.560dot. So, in fact,when Indiana passed their nearly nearly full protection3200:03:00.639 --> 00:03:07.039law for the unborn earlier this month, they did so specifically excluding people prenatally3300:03:07.159 --> 00:03:13.000diagnosed with a lethal fetal anomaly,anomaly up to twenty weeks just station.3400:03:13.879 --> 00:03:17.319This is especially notable as, priorto the overturn of row, Indiana was3500:03:17.360 --> 00:03:25.840one of just six states that protectedunborn children with any chromosomal um abnormality from3600:03:25.879 --> 00:03:32.639eugenic abortions. So they're back stepping, their backpedaling on full protection to now3700:03:32.680 --> 00:03:38.319they're adding this and and I'm notsure why that's happening, but the author3800:03:38.400 --> 00:03:45.240said that this is Um a disturbingtrend and we need to counter that.3900:03:45.360 --> 00:03:47.639We need to talk about it andwe need to know how to counter it.4000:03:49.439 --> 00:03:53.560Um Not not for you and Ion the sidewalk, maybe not necessarily4100:03:53.719 --> 00:03:59.319politically or with laws, but certainlyhow do we counter that when we encounter4200:03:59.400 --> 00:04:04.000mobs who say my baby is gonnadie, maybe before being born, but4300:04:04.080 --> 00:04:10.039certainly after birth, that the conditionis so severe? Or what we face4400:04:10.120 --> 00:04:15.000more commonly is there is some sortof abnormality, down syndrome being probably the4500:04:15.039 --> 00:04:21.240most common um and so they theyfeel that they need to kill the baby4600:04:21.480 --> 00:04:25.879as opposed to face that. Yeah, I think for our purposes. It's4700:04:26.000 --> 00:04:30.600it's kind of a twofold issue becausethere is there is a higher kind of4800:04:30.839 --> 00:04:36.600higher level way to view this asa nation Um. And then as far4900:04:36.639 --> 00:04:41.240as like the overturning of Roe vway, we understand and we believe that5000:04:41.839 --> 00:04:45.079Roe v way should be overturned.And ultimately, I believe, and hopefully5100:04:45.079 --> 00:04:47.439everyone that listens to this podcast believes, that there should be some kind of5200:04:47.519 --> 00:04:54.319constitutional protection for every human being,born or unborn. You're a human being,5300:04:54.439 --> 00:04:58.680you deserve to be protected under thelaw of these United States of America.5400:04:59.560 --> 00:05:03.519And again, if you're a humanbeing, doesn't matter what abnormalities you5500:05:03.600 --> 00:05:08.160have, if you're a human being, you should be protected under the law.5600:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.199So that's the higher level thing thatwe really need to understand it we5700:05:11.240 --> 00:05:15.399really need to push for. Asbelievers in Jesus, human beings are precious.5800:05:15.600 --> 00:05:19.560Human beings have an intrinsic value,not because of traits that they have5900:05:19.720 --> 00:05:25.199or don't have, but because ofthe fact that they're human beings. Human6000:05:25.240 --> 00:05:29.319beings are made in the image ofGod. Human beings with down syndrome are6100:05:29.360 --> 00:05:32.319made in the image of God,human beings with trusting on me Um eighteen,6200:05:33.319 --> 00:05:39.839one of those or thirteen, thesedifferent fetal abnormalities that are chromosotal issues,6300:05:40.079 --> 00:05:44.160are human beings made in the imageof God, right. Um,6400:05:44.240 --> 00:05:48.439whatever the other dwarf is, Mis another issue. There are severe forms6500:05:48.480 --> 00:05:51.680of dwarfism that can cause, youknow, all kinds of issues to a6600:05:51.680 --> 00:05:57.360baby that is uh, that's bornwith those issues. They're still human beings6700:05:57.360 --> 00:05:59.759made in the image of God,and so we have to have it fixed6800:05:59.759 --> 00:06:03.040in our hearts in our minds thatthat is the right stance to take right6900:06:03.120 --> 00:06:06.480it, regardless of what Indiana doesor any other state does. The right7000:06:06.600 --> 00:06:11.600stands to take is that human beingshave an intrinsic value and deserve to be7100:06:11.680 --> 00:06:16.279protected under the law and we can'tkill them just because, um, just7200:06:16.360 --> 00:06:20.680because of issues that they have.We can't kill them just because issues that7300:06:20.720 --> 00:06:25.879they might call use for their familyor whatever, because it really what we're7400:06:25.879 --> 00:06:30.560doing is we're, like you said, their Indiana is backpedaling here. You're7500:06:30.639 --> 00:06:35.279essentially saying that human beings are preciousdeserve to be protected under the law unless7600:06:35.519 --> 00:06:40.000they have this issue or that issue. Right now, I know it can7700:06:40.040 --> 00:06:44.639get more granular and can get moredifficult. No one's pretending that these situations7800:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.240are easy to deal with. Theirheartbreaking. Now I mean knowing to carry7900:06:47.240 --> 00:06:53.199a baby for nine months only toknow with, I guess, a lot8000:06:53.240 --> 00:07:00.279of certainty, that Um that thatbaby will only live very briefly. So8100:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.240it is heartbreaking, there's no doubtabout it. But there are things we8200:07:03.319 --> 00:07:09.040can say or appoint those parents too, that can help them to deal with8300:07:09.079 --> 00:07:12.439this in a God honoring way.Yeah, yeah, and that's ultimately the8400:07:12.519 --> 00:07:15.839point is. We want to honorJesus, we want to honor God.8500:07:15.279 --> 00:07:21.040And when you know you get abad diagnosis, whatever that diagnosis might be,8600:07:21.040 --> 00:07:25.959whether it's for the baby or forthe mother, we understand there's fear,8700:07:26.279 --> 00:07:30.079there's concerns, there's things that weought to be concerned about, but8800:07:30.160 --> 00:07:33.199when we go to well, thedoctor has said this and so it's absolutely8900:07:33.240 --> 00:07:36.839here's going to be the result thatwe don't leave any space for the Lord9000:07:36.920 --> 00:07:41.000to do his thing right, wedon't leave any space for doctors to be9100:07:41.079 --> 00:07:45.839wrong, we don't leave any spacefor God to intervene miraculously. I'm thinking9200:07:45.839 --> 00:07:46.959of a story, Um, justoff the top of my head, and9300:07:46.959 --> 00:07:50.360I don't know all the details becauseit happened several years ago, but it9400:07:50.399 --> 00:07:55.160was a couple that actually me andmy wife went to school with, and9500:07:55.199 --> 00:07:58.160their child was diagnosed, and thiswas actually in the local newspaper from the9600:07:58.199 --> 00:08:01.720city that we're from. Um,this I was diagnosed with Um, some9700:08:01.800 --> 00:08:07.040kind of rare brain disorder, andthey were told that they should abort because9800:08:07.040 --> 00:08:09.079this child is going to be bornbasically brain dead, not going to be9900:08:09.120 --> 00:08:13.360a functioning individual. They're gonna haveto care for this child, even if,10000:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.199you know, if the child evenlives beyond birth, they're gonna have10100:08:16.199 --> 00:08:20.639to care for this child for therest of this child's life. Um,10200:08:20.800 --> 00:08:24.759Lo and behold, the doctors werewrong. This child did have some issues,10300:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.920but they were not issues that merited, I mean no issue merits killing10400:08:28.959 --> 00:08:31.559that child, but they are notissues that merited the level of fear that10500:08:31.679 --> 00:08:35.639the doctors. Um, we're reallyinstilling in these people. Now, I10600:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.759don't mean to say that when doctorsdo this every time are they trying to10700:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.159convince people to abort their child,but doctors do a lot of times operate10800:08:43.240 --> 00:08:48.720in a spirit of fear. Andlet's remember, even though some doctors think10900:08:48.799 --> 00:08:54.039they are, no one is Godexcept for God himself. Right, and11000:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.200so we have to leave space forGod to be God. As a society11100:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.039and individually, we have to leastleave space for God to be God and11200:09:01.080 --> 00:09:05.759for him to work miraculously. Andyou know kind of where I was going11300:09:05.799 --> 00:09:07.840with this is this is twofold.We need to understand that on a national11400:09:07.919 --> 00:09:13.559leveling to understand that and kind of, Um, a philosophical level. Right,11500:09:13.600 --> 00:09:18.519we've got to understand every human beingis precious and deserves to be protected11600:09:18.600 --> 00:09:24.000under the law period. Second,though, we're gonna deal with women at11700:09:24.039 --> 00:09:26.840the abortion centers. You maybe alreadyhave those who are listening a certainly know11800:09:26.919 --> 00:09:31.919we already have dealt with women anduh, families that say that their child11900:09:31.960 --> 00:09:37.559has this fetal abnormality and therefore theyfeel like they need to abort, and12000:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.679so we're gonna really dig into thatin this article. Um, how do12100:09:41.759 --> 00:09:46.720you answer that? How do yougive them some assurance that God's with them?12200:09:46.720 --> 00:09:48.639How you give them assurance that they'redoing the right thing if they turn12300:09:48.679 --> 00:09:54.559away from abortion? How do yougive them kind of the reality check that12400:09:54.559 --> 00:09:58.159if they do have an abortion,it's not okay just because their their baby12500:09:58.200 --> 00:10:03.519has issues? Right? So howdo yeah, and the first way or12600:10:03.559 --> 00:10:09.799the first method that I always pointout, you already mentioned, when always12700:10:09.840 --> 00:10:13.320remember the doctors can be wrong.They can be wrong. We have so12800:10:13.399 --> 00:10:16.240many stories of that. We havestories personally, just in in our time12900:10:16.279 --> 00:10:20.600out on the sidewalk, and theInternet is filled with them. There was13000:10:20.759 --> 00:10:26.960one that I remember. I dolook for these stories on on Facebook,13100:10:26.000 --> 00:10:31.159on the Internet, because I rememberthem and I can use those stories to13200:10:33.600 --> 00:10:37.360reassure the women that they should atthe very least get a second opinion.13300:10:37.960 --> 00:10:41.600But Um, but this story wasof a baby similar to the story you13400:10:41.720 --> 00:10:46.840told that and they showed pictures this. These parents showed pictures of the baby's13500:10:46.879 --> 00:10:52.120brain and there was the baby hadlike a third, if that, of13600:10:52.240 --> 00:10:54.240the brain. The rest of thebrain just wasn't there. And there was13700:10:54.240 --> 00:10:58.720a condition, whatever. It isvery rare, whatever it was called,13800:10:58.360 --> 00:11:05.279and the Um, the baby wasUm, was born and they did a13900:11:05.480 --> 00:11:11.120living which was a shock to thembecause they said the condition was absolutely incompatible14000:11:11.159 --> 00:11:16.080with life. The baby was bornand the doctors were just absolutely dumbfounded when14100:11:16.120 --> 00:11:22.840they did whatever scan of the baby'shead because they don't know why this baby14200:11:22.960 --> 00:11:28.720is living and the brain was likeit grown back. They said there was.14300:11:30.200 --> 00:11:35.360There was zero chance of that happenmedically. Zero Um and they said14400:11:35.399 --> 00:11:37.679it was just that it was nothingshort of an a miracle. A miracle,14500:11:37.720 --> 00:11:41.759and the baby's fine. I meanthere are issues, like you said14600:11:41.759 --> 00:11:45.039with your friend, there are issues, but the baby is alive. That14700:11:45.159 --> 00:11:48.759I think the baby is expected tolive and the brain apparently is still developing14800:11:48.799 --> 00:11:56.480in ways that the doctors just absolutelynever believed possible. The one caution I14900:11:56.480 --> 00:12:01.440would say is that while doctors canand be wrong, they can also be15000:12:01.600 --> 00:12:09.799correct and we don't want to givea false hope that is going to put15100:12:09.840 --> 00:12:16.440this woman on an emotional roller coaster. Um, but we, I do15200:12:16.600 --> 00:12:22.320think we are always called to say, have you gotten a second opinion,15300:12:22.679 --> 00:12:28.200because so often they have not.Yeah, oftentimes too. You have to15400:12:28.279 --> 00:12:33.120understand that the doctors, because they'rein a position of authority, and steal15500:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.200a lot of fear and hopelessness.And again, I don't know that they're15600:12:37.200 --> 00:12:41.360trying to do that. I thinksome are. Some think that their God15700:12:41.919 --> 00:12:46.600and they think that their word isholds more weight than God's word, but15800:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.039most are just trying to be youknow, they're trying to be honest,15900:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.679they're trying to be accurate. They'retrying not to give false hope and so16000:12:52.720 --> 00:12:58.639they tend to lean more towards thenegative rather than hey, maybe they're maybe16100:12:58.639 --> 00:13:03.159I could you're wrong. You know, doctors don't oftentimes like to admit that16200:13:03.159 --> 00:13:07.279they could be wrong and the medicaltests can be wrong and Um, so16300:13:07.320 --> 00:13:13.159I think always mentioning that is importantand not doing it in such a way16400:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.279where you're trying to get them tomistrust their doctor. Right, if they're16500:13:16.399 --> 00:13:18.840well, I'd say this, iftheir doctor has told them to come to16600:13:18.879 --> 00:13:22.519the abortion clinic to kill their child, then yes, I definitely want to16700:13:22.519 --> 00:13:28.440pit them against their doctor. Ido because that doctor has basically affirmed the16800:13:28.480 --> 00:13:33.000idea that it's okay to murder achild because they have a disability. Right,16900:13:33.159 --> 00:13:35.440and that doctor, to me,is he's went against his oath,17000:13:35.559 --> 00:13:41.279right his his oath is to dono harm and he's decided that he's he's17100:13:41.320 --> 00:13:43.159gonna encourage a woman to do harmto her child. He's not doing his17200:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.320job as a doctor. So Iwill say you shouldn't trust that doctor.17300:13:46.759 --> 00:13:52.759Help, let us help you geta second opinion. But the fear that17400:13:52.840 --> 00:13:58.279these doctors and still, because they'rein this position of authority in the sense17500:13:58.399 --> 00:14:01.320is like understandable. They're the guysthat are supposed to know. They're the17600:14:01.320 --> 00:14:05.679folks that are supposed to get thestuff right, and they could get suit17700:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.799if, if this baby is bornwith this condition and they haven't fully warned,17800:14:11.240 --> 00:14:13.840woman, they do need to be. Yeah, Um, but again,17900:14:13.879 --> 00:14:16.960we're still we're dealing with human life, and so we want to to18000:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.519me, that's constantly what you're touchingon. This is a human being,18100:14:20.600 --> 00:14:26.360whatever their issues might be, justbecause they may have disabilities or may not.18200:14:26.279 --> 00:14:30.039Um, there's still a human being. But also, I want to18300:14:30.039 --> 00:14:35.440address that this one statement that you'llhear in these um scenarios. oftentimes it's18400:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.440incompatible with life. This baby isincompatible with life, this feat is,18500:14:39.639 --> 00:14:45.639whatever terms they want to use,is incompatible with life. Um, okay.18600:14:45.679 --> 00:14:48.799If that's the case, though,they're going to be born and their18700:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.799condition is incompatible with life, sothey're gonna die shortly after they're born.18800:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.080That's really a self conflicting statement.If the baby, though it might have,18900:14:58.399 --> 00:15:03.080he or she might have complications,if they're alive in the womb,19000:15:03.120 --> 00:15:07.799they're not incompatible with life. They'realready alive. So to say that a19100:15:07.840 --> 00:15:13.480baby in the womb because it hasthis fetal abnormality is incompatible with life.19200:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.159When it's born, it's gonna dieimmediately. You're conflicting what you're saying.19300:15:16.559 --> 00:15:20.879It can't die if it's not alive. Right, that baby is already alive19400:15:20.919 --> 00:15:26.559and I think I always touch onthat. You don't remedy someone's suffering by19500:15:26.600 --> 00:15:31.840causing more suffering. Think about whatan abortion does. An abortion kills a19600:15:31.919 --> 00:15:35.960human being. It causes suffering.Right, it's gonna stop a heart that's19700:15:35.960 --> 00:15:41.559already beating, and so this ideathat it's incompatible with life, this baby19800:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.919is incompatible with life is absurd.If the baby is already alive, it's19900:15:46.080 --> 00:15:48.480very much compatible with life. Nowwe know that it's the mother's body that's20000:15:48.480 --> 00:15:52.840sustaining that child's life. That's theway God designed it to be. Again,20100:15:52.879 --> 00:15:58.720we've got to leave space for Godto do what only he can do,20200:15:58.240 --> 00:16:03.240just like in Sich wations where achild has cancer or something like that.20300:16:03.240 --> 00:16:07.799Those are terrible situations, but wedon't give the child a lethal injection20400:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.519because they're going to suffer with cancer. Right. We we do everything we20500:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.960can to intervene until we can't interveneanymore. And what do we do?20600:16:17.039 --> 00:16:19.399We leave it in God's hands.Right. Yeah, and you've touched onto20700:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.799two of the next main points thatwere brought out, Um, in the20800:16:22.879 --> 00:16:26.399article that we're going to be puttingout with this podcast. Uh. The20900:16:26.480 --> 00:16:30.720second thing is reaffirmed the sanctity ofhuman life. Always go back to that.21000:16:30.799 --> 00:16:34.080Like you said, that should probablybe the number one thing really on21100:16:34.080 --> 00:16:41.320on this article. Is the sanctityof human life supersede to everything, everything21200:16:41.360 --> 00:16:45.480else. And then what you said. The potential for suffering does not justify21300:16:45.559 --> 00:16:49.159murder. I mean, honestly,the potential for suffering is true in every21400:16:49.159 --> 00:16:53.120single human being on earth. OnEarth we will all suffer and when some21500:16:53.240 --> 00:16:59.360of us will suffer terribly, butthat doesn't mean that murder should be the21600:16:59.440 --> 00:17:04.000answer to suffering. Um. Oneof the verses that came to me was21700:17:04.039 --> 00:17:08.480some thirty four eighteen. The Lordis near to the broken hearted and saves21800:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.440the Christian Spirit. We will suffer, all of us will suffer on earth,21900:17:12.759 --> 00:17:18.480but remember that God is near tous through through suffering, and Um22000:17:18.680 --> 00:17:26.759and glorifying God is certainly the antidote. Not Um, not just define God22100:17:26.039 --> 00:17:30.599and and killing that innocent life.One of the things, of course,22200:17:30.640 --> 00:17:33.400related to that is is the fourthpoint in this article that you can use22300:17:33.839 --> 00:17:37.799to speak to the MOM. SoI want to kind of give those main22400:17:37.839 --> 00:17:41.599points to make sure no one missesthem. Second opinion, remember the doctors22500:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.640can be wrong. Reaffirm the sanctityof human life. Potential for suffering does22600:17:45.640 --> 00:17:49.440not justify murder. And the nextone is that really none of us know22700:17:49.519 --> 00:17:53.759how long we will live. Noneof us so. And there are again22800:17:53.920 --> 00:18:00.240countless personal testimonies of baby is bornwith very serious complications, where the doctor22900:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.960said this baby will not live secondsbeyond birth, where the baby does live.23000:18:04.680 --> 00:18:11.000and Um. So I get theargument. I understand the argument.23100:18:11.200 --> 00:18:18.039I don't want to carry a babyfor nine months to then undergo the incredible23200:18:18.160 --> 00:18:23.680pain of watching that child die beforemy eyes minutes after I've delivered. I23300:18:23.720 --> 00:18:29.880think you cannot gloss over the sufferingthat will cause the mother. It will,23400:18:30.319 --> 00:18:34.680it would be. I cannot imaginethe pain of that. So I23500:18:34.960 --> 00:18:42.720totally get that. But I thinkwhat what is absent in just focusing on23600:18:44.160 --> 00:18:51.200that is but look what the blessingis. The blessing is a little human23700:18:51.279 --> 00:18:57.759being got to know the those fewprecious moments of being loved and seen.23800:18:59.559 --> 00:19:02.720Usually, in most cases, theMOM is able to hold that child,23900:19:03.160 --> 00:19:07.000the family can hold that child.And again, I have seen so many24000:19:07.119 --> 00:19:11.880personal testimonies of Moms who have facedthat, have had their their baby die24100:19:12.000 --> 00:19:18.759within minutes and said, while itwas incredibly painful, there was so much24200:19:18.920 --> 00:19:25.200joy and blessing and having been ableto hold that child for those brief moments.24300:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.000Yeah, I think one of themost important things, as it pertains24400:19:29.039 --> 00:19:32.519to us, minister, on thesidewalk, will we encounter these situations,24500:19:33.519 --> 00:19:36.880is to answer it with compassion,yes, right, to identify with their24600:19:36.920 --> 00:19:40.799pain. You guys have heard metalk about compassion calm, which means with24700:19:41.079 --> 00:19:45.119breaking down that word calm, theprefix with, and then passion actually means24800:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.519suffering. So to have compassion meansto suffer with them, to enter into24900:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.960their suffering. The Bible says weweep with those that weep, we mourn25000:19:53.079 --> 00:19:57.640with those who mourn. If youencounter a mom family on the sidewalk that25100:19:57.680 --> 00:20:03.720comes to the abortion center and theysay our baby has this issue, doctor25200:20:03.799 --> 00:20:07.680says this baby is incompatible with life, we feel like we have to do25300:20:07.720 --> 00:20:10.920this. We don't go through allthe pain. We want to identify with25400:20:10.960 --> 00:20:15.519that suffering, we want to identifywith that struggle, right enter into their25500:20:15.559 --> 00:20:19.240suffering with them. But I dothink again, these personal testimonies, whether25600:20:19.519 --> 00:20:23.400personal testimonies like we talked about,of times where doctors have been wrong,25700:20:25.160 --> 00:20:29.720but also personal testimonies of you know, even if you go through this and25800:20:29.799 --> 00:20:33.079that baby does die after he orshe is born, is at least you25900:20:33.119 --> 00:20:38.519love that child as much as youcould, either than coming to a place26000:20:38.599 --> 00:20:45.839like this and subjecting that baby andyourself to a place that kills children from26100:20:45.880 --> 00:20:48.279money. Yeah, that was you. You exactly touched on where I was.26200:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.640What I was going to add is, is you save yourself from the26300:20:52.680 --> 00:20:57.920remorse and sorrow of having taken thatchild's life yourself, your that baby dying26400:20:59.079 --> 00:21:03.519at your hand, or at yourpermission at best, as opposed to the26500:21:03.599 --> 00:21:10.279baby dying once it was born andhaving experienced at least a few moments of26600:21:10.720 --> 00:21:14.359joy, of being held and knownby his parents? Yeah, and then26700:21:14.400 --> 00:21:15.720there can be on our part,though, just so we understand, no26800:21:15.880 --> 00:21:21.599pretense that these are easy situations andno kind of flippant response, but it26900:21:21.599 --> 00:21:25.680still doesn't justify killing your baby.That's the reality. But, like I've27000:21:25.720 --> 00:21:29.960said before, you can be youcan be technically right, but but relationally27100:21:30.039 --> 00:21:33.680wrong, and we always want toanswer it with compassion and also understand two27200:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.599and this is because people will lieto you, all right, we we've27300:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.200talked about that, what to dowhen we think that they're lying. People27400:21:41.200 --> 00:21:45.160can lie to you and I've heardpeople make up scenarios like my baby has27500:21:45.200 --> 00:21:49.359down syndrome or my baby has trustingon me eighteen or whatever. My baby27600:21:49.440 --> 00:21:55.079is gonna be dead when my babydoesn't have a brain or whatever. You27700:21:55.160 --> 00:22:00.240can almost always tell that they're lyingwhen they come over to you and kind27800:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.880of this arrogant demeanor. Most ofthe time people in this scenario, if27900:22:04.920 --> 00:22:08.799they do talk to you, they'regonna be super humbled, right, they're28000:22:08.799 --> 00:22:12.680gonna be broken hearted, and youcan read that situation. Um. But28100:22:12.799 --> 00:22:17.480even if you do have someone thatcomes over and they're arrogant and they're prideful28200:22:17.480 --> 00:22:21.680and they tell you their baby hasthis whatever issue, you don't want to28300:22:21.680 --> 00:22:23.480push back with saying well, thatdoesn't matter. You still want to answer28400:22:23.519 --> 00:22:26.359with compassion, you still want togive them the benefit of the doubt.28500:22:27.119 --> 00:22:32.039But oftentimes when you do encounter thesesituations, they're gonna be humbled already,28600:22:32.079 --> 00:22:36.160they're gonna be broken already. Andfor you guys, you love Jesus,28700:22:36.200 --> 00:22:38.039it's not gonna be hard for youto enter into their suffering with them.28800:22:38.799 --> 00:22:44.400Prayer is very important. Can Ijust pray with you? Sometimes, we28900:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.160always we want to put words inwhere actually we need to put prayer in.29000:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.319We wanna, we want to addin opinions and our opinions, and29100:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.079really we need to bring God intothe situation, and so I would always29200:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.880just say, can I pray withyou and invite God into the situation.29300:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.839Help this couple and, like wetalked about, you're praying for them,29400:23:02.839 --> 00:23:04.839but you're also praying at them.Helped this couple to see that their baby29500:23:04.880 --> 00:23:10.039has value, is loved and knownby you, and that this place is29600:23:10.039 --> 00:23:11.880actually a place of darkness, becauseto me, if they're going through a29700:23:11.920 --> 00:23:17.359struggle like this, the last placethey need to be is inside of planned29800:23:17.359 --> 00:23:22.799parenthood or one of the latrobe abortioncenter, where it's full of darkness,29900:23:22.839 --> 00:23:26.400it's full of death. There arewomen in there just flippantly killing their children30000:23:26.599 --> 00:23:30.200when they're going through one of theworst situations that anyone could be in right.30100:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.880It's the worst place that they couldbe in my opinion, on so30200:23:33.920 --> 00:23:40.200many levels. But Um, uh, sharing personal testimonies are are we've already30300:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.720touched on that and that was kindof the last major point of something that30400:23:42.880 --> 00:23:48.559you can offer to them. Butthere is also help available, and this30500:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.799was new to me. Actually,I'm really grateful to this reader or this30600:23:52.880 --> 00:23:57.640listener who sent me that article article, because in the article there was a30700:23:57.680 --> 00:24:02.799resource I was unfamiliar you're with,and I think everybody needs to have this30800:24:02.920 --> 00:24:07.279on their resource list. I didexplore this, this Um resource. I30900:24:07.559 --> 00:24:12.240went to the website, I Iread all the dropdown menus and it's fantastic.31000:24:12.759 --> 00:24:18.799It's called be not afraid and thewebsite is on our article, be31100:24:18.880 --> 00:24:23.200not afraid dot net. So it'sa national organization. It's centered here in,31200:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.720I believe, concord, North Carolina, so it's out of North Carolina,31300:24:26.759 --> 00:24:32.640but it is national and it actuallyits purpose is to help parents who31400:24:32.640 --> 00:24:37.440have been given a diagnosis of fetalabnormalities. So it is first and foremost,31500:24:37.480 --> 00:24:41.880the first thing I look for isokay, is it pro life or31600:24:41.960 --> 00:24:45.559is there a chance they would saywell, with certain abnormalities, they would31700:24:45.599 --> 00:24:48.920recommend abortion. That is not thecase. They would never recommend abortion.31800:24:49.359 --> 00:24:53.119It's it's based on the truth thatall human life is valuable and that,31900:24:53.200 --> 00:24:57.920basically, abortion should never be consideredto deal with the very real issues of32000:24:59.519 --> 00:25:06.839fetal abnormalities. So some of thestuff it helps with mentors resources and strategies32100:25:07.160 --> 00:25:11.839so that parents feel better equipped towelcome their child to the world. And32200:25:11.920 --> 00:25:17.559so there's a case management team thatwill be appointed Um to to that those32300:25:17.559 --> 00:25:22.920parents and they some of the helpthat they provided that was listed on the32400:25:22.920 --> 00:25:30.000website Um include a birth plan,depending on what the diagnosis is, the32500:25:30.119 --> 00:25:37.720local resources that they can connect theparents with, education about the disability and32600:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.720what the parents need to know tobe able to parent this child or even32700:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.839just deal with the birth of thechild. BERIEVE mint how to deal with32800:25:45.880 --> 00:25:51.720the grief following if the child doesdie. They even help with funeral cost32900:25:51.839 --> 00:25:56.640if that is necessary, and guidanceif if the child dies, and then33000:25:56.880 --> 00:26:02.359they do ongoing support and contact fora full year following the child's firths.33100:26:02.400 --> 00:26:04.319So they could be following these momsfor, you know, potentially a year33200:26:04.359 --> 00:26:11.480and nine months, and it justit sounds incredible, like a great resources33300:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.599resource. So everybody should look thatup and get them on their um on33400:26:15.680 --> 00:26:22.599their resource list in your area.And then the final area is not to33500:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.359forget, and Daniel, I knowyou'll love dealing with this one, the33600:26:26.480 --> 00:26:32.319role of the Church and in walkingalongside these these MOMS, these families.33700:26:32.480 --> 00:26:36.000Yeah, and, as often assaid, the church is called to be33800:26:36.079 --> 00:26:40.400the hands and feet of Jesus.We are called to walk alongside these families33900:26:40.759 --> 00:26:44.200again, to to grieve with thosethat grieve, to mourn with those that34000:26:44.279 --> 00:26:49.319weren't, to weep with those thatweep, but also practically to help these34100:26:49.359 --> 00:26:56.480families. We have mentors all acrossthe nation and, Um, I know34200:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.920God is raising up people that havebeen in situations similar into this of seeing34300:27:00.960 --> 00:27:04.799God miraculously make connections with families thatare struggling with some of the same things.34400:27:04.920 --> 00:27:08.079God, God, already has amentor in a church in that city34500:27:08.359 --> 00:27:14.559that can come alongside that mom whohas gone through a similar situation. Um,34600:27:14.599 --> 00:27:18.079and so just, you know,leveraging the church, the connections with34700:27:18.119 --> 00:27:22.480the churches. Um, I knowthat this ministry it's in Mooresville. I've34800:27:22.480 --> 00:27:26.079just looked it up, moville.So it's not not far from where we34900:27:26.119 --> 00:27:27.799are right now, and I've actuallyheard about them in the past. Now35000:27:27.839 --> 00:27:33.000that I'm thinking about this, Umis connected to a local church right this35100:27:33.079 --> 00:27:37.279is the hands and feed of Jesus, is the body of Christ working together,35200:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.680coming alongside these families. So there'svarious ways that the church can do35300:27:41.799 --> 00:27:44.799that, and I think one ofthe main things, though, is the35400:27:44.839 --> 00:27:48.839mentor program walking alongside these families ifthey decided to not not to go through35500:27:48.880 --> 00:27:52.079with the abortion, but also ifthey decided to go through with the abortion,35600:27:52.119 --> 00:27:55.960we still want to be there withthem, speaking the truth, coming35700:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.359alongside them, Um, speaking whatGod's words say us and turning them to35800:28:00.480 --> 00:28:06.160Jesus. Ultimately, the job ofthe church is to point people to Jesus35900:28:06.200 --> 00:28:08.359Christ, and that's what we alwayswant to be doing for these families and36000:28:08.400 --> 00:28:15.000what other families are are struggling withvarious situations, as your scripture says here36100:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.680at the end of your article,bear one one of those burdens and so36200:28:17.839 --> 00:28:19.680fulfill the law of Christ. TheLaw of Christ is summed up in one36300:28:19.720 --> 00:28:25.240word love. And as much aswe would want someone to come alongside us36400:28:25.240 --> 00:28:29.640in a difficult situation like that,we need to come alongside them. Amen,36500:28:29.839 --> 00:28:33.359Amen, and and just. Um. I hope this article will encourage36600:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.960every sidewalk counselor to not be afraidto deal biblically with this situation. The36700:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.640death of the baby is not theanswer. Um, the an abortion is36800:28:41.720 --> 00:28:45.240not the answer. To trust that, that God. Maybe this is a36900:28:45.240 --> 00:28:49.400good article to help you know,empower you to feel you you can approach37000:28:49.480 --> 00:28:56.200these families with love and Biblical Truthand hopefully still save a life. Yeah,37100:28:56.519 --> 00:28:59.799yeah, Amen. Well, guys, we hope that this was in37200:28:59.799 --> 00:29:02.480Ancouragement to you. Guys. Hopethat this equipped you, guess, to37300:29:02.559 --> 00:29:06.799be more effective on the sidewalk.If, like this article started from an37400:29:06.799 --> 00:29:10.640email from someone who listens, weappreciate you send it in this question and37500:29:10.880 --> 00:29:14.440Um, if you guys have somethingsimilar topic, something you've not seen us37600:29:14.480 --> 00:29:17.920cover thus far in an episode,we'd love to hear from you. You37700:29:17.920 --> 00:29:19.920can reach out to meet Daniel atLove Life Dot Org. You reach her37800:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.279Vicky with a hy at Love LifeDot Org. We'd love to hear from37900:29:23.319 --> 00:29:27.000you. Please also leave us areview on whatever podcast service that you use.38000:29:27.319 --> 00:29:32.599Share this podcast with others and untilnext time, God bless God.38100:29:32.599 --> 00:29:45.559Bless you all. Give me ourlove for love. Give me our love38200:29:45.759 --> 00:29:57.240for gratitude. I know it willcost me my life. Nothing's too precious,38300:29:57.480 --> 00:30:08.079and some you, M M M