Aug. 12, 2021

Ministering to An Agnostic - Mock Session

Ministering to An Agnostic - Mock Session

We encounter all types of people at the abortion centers so it’s helpful to be prepared to minister to people of different persuasions. In this episode, we do another mock session this time of Vicky ministering to a young lady who claims to be an...


We encounter all types of people at the abortion centers so it’s helpful to be prepared to minister to people of different persuasions. In this episode, we do another mock session this time of Vicky ministering to a young lady who claims to be an agnostic and is concerned that her baby may be disabled. There are some unique challenges presented in this conversation and we think it will help equip you as you minister at your local abortion center. 

https://sidewalks4life.com/the-baby-might-die-be-disabled/

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me, 2 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:11.349 Lord, I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the 3 00:00:11.429 --> 00:00:17.309 Gospel Center pre life podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge 4 00:00:17.350 --> 00:00:21.350 you in pro life ministry and always were the focus on the Gospel. Stay 5 00:00:21.429 --> 00:00:36.969 tuned. I felt show passish touch your welcome to the Gospel Center pro life 6 00:00:37.009 --> 00:00:41.210 podcast. We appreciate you guys tuning in and listening and, as always, 7 00:00:41.210 --> 00:00:46.369 we'd appreciate if you guys would share this podcast. We are in this episode, 8 00:00:46.929 --> 00:00:50.240 going to do something we've done in a couple of episodes previously and something 9 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:54.560 that we've actually had quite a few folks request of us, and that's to 10 00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:58.159 do a mock session. So again, as we've done in the past, 11 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:03.799 Vicky recorded her counseling Maddie, who's one of our local vaunteers who should be 12 00:01:03.239 --> 00:01:07.349 a paid act actress. She Shits, she is so good. Yeah, 13 00:01:07.510 --> 00:01:11.510 she's Great. So and then I think we have a few coming up in 14 00:01:11.590 --> 00:01:15.430 the next couple of weeks that were recorded from some of our other counselors right 15 00:01:15.469 --> 00:01:17.870 now. That will be good. Yeah, but we wanted to do this 16 00:01:18.109 --> 00:01:22.180 one just to do what we've done in the past again play that. So 17 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:23.980 we're going to play the audio for you guys, and then we're going to 18 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:27.340 come back and kind of critique it a little bit say some of the things, 19 00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:30.900 things that actually the points that were touched one that you need to be 20 00:01:30.980 --> 00:01:34.049 touched on maybe some of the things that were not touched one. Do want 21 00:01:34.090 --> 00:01:38.969 to say that in all of these we're just kind of laying out as far 22 00:01:38.969 --> 00:01:42.250 as for Maddie and Vicky, you're just kind of laying out what the scenario 23 00:01:42.409 --> 00:01:45.129 is, but there's not like it's not like a scripted or anything. Rights 24 00:01:45.329 --> 00:01:48.280 and going off as well. We're doing that so that it will, as 25 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.760 closely as possible, mimic a real situation, because you don't know what you're 26 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:53.680 going to face when when you start talking to a woman, a woman. 27 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:57.200 So I purposely didn't want to know what Maddie was going to say. She 28 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.599 had no idea what I was going to say. We just laid out the 29 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:06.989 general concept and scenario. Yeah, which is good. It is real to 30 00:02:07.510 --> 00:02:09.789 life as possible, right, I guess. And, like I said, 31 00:02:09.830 --> 00:02:14.870 Maddie's really good. It's she's obviously talked to many women at abortion centers and 32 00:02:15.270 --> 00:02:19.020 riot conversations. Yeah, because she knows what to say in these situations. 33 00:02:19.219 --> 00:02:23.139 This is very realistic, by the way. This is Maddie being an agnostic 34 00:02:23.219 --> 00:02:30.810 at best, maybe atheist, mother with a child who she's concerned is going 35 00:02:30.849 --> 00:02:34.370 to die or be disabled because some of the choices she has made, and 36 00:02:35.050 --> 00:02:39.810 we do face that often. Yeah, and she really nailed a lot of 37 00:02:40.289 --> 00:02:46.039 the discussion that we would get as pushback from those moms when we interact with 38 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:49.400 them. Yeah, yeah, so you guys, we're going to go ahead 39 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.000 and play this for you again. Lay out the scenario real quick before we 40 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:58.669 play it. Okay, so she she's approached me, so she's walking towards 41 00:02:58.789 --> 00:03:04.270 the counselor. She is a young woman who this is her first pregnancy her, 42 00:03:04.789 --> 00:03:09.069 she has not engaged in healthy lifestyle and knows it and is concerned that 43 00:03:09.150 --> 00:03:15.900 the child might be born with a disability or or could even die, and 44 00:03:16.979 --> 00:03:23.300 she doesn't believe in God. So she doesn't have that restraint on her at 45 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:28.530 all. Yeah, and that's basically all that we gave her. Okay, 46 00:03:28.650 --> 00:03:32.169 I said you go from there and I will do my best to counsel you. 47 00:03:32.530 --> 00:03:37.250 Okay, cool. Well, that's the scenario, guess. So listen 48 00:03:37.289 --> 00:03:40.169 up and then stay with us and we'll come back at the end and talk 49 00:03:40.210 --> 00:03:46.280 a little bit about this there. Okay, oh, young lady, I 50 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.800 know you may not want to talk with me, but I'm just offering you 51 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:54.360 some help. This is information and hope and help, and on the back 52 00:03:54.599 --> 00:04:00.710 is is my name and my number and we would we would love to talk 53 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:04.389 with you about what brings you to this place. And I know you know 54 00:04:04.469 --> 00:04:09.789 obviously there's something going on. I know that all they do here is abortions. 55 00:04:09.949 --> 00:04:15.099 So I know women don't come here, you know, just for normal 56 00:04:15.580 --> 00:04:20.699 health care. So what's going on? Do you mind telling me? I 57 00:04:20.860 --> 00:04:25.009 don't know. I've heard a lot about you guys. I don't know. 58 00:04:25.209 --> 00:04:28.850 Are you yeah, they do. When you called, like they they told 59 00:04:28.850 --> 00:04:30.689 you. Yeah, they they don't like us offering the choice for life. 60 00:04:30.689 --> 00:04:35.290 I'll be very honest. We are here because we know that that baby is 61 00:04:35.329 --> 00:04:41.519 a little human being, precious to God, created by God. And if 62 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:44.720 you've missed your period, which you wouldn't be here probably, unless she had 63 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.040 right then that baby already has a beating heart. That baby is a person, 64 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:53.949 a little person, but a vulnerable human being. Loved and created by 65 00:04:54.029 --> 00:04:57.949 God. So we come offering help. We have so many resources really, 66 00:04:58.069 --> 00:05:00.790 no matter what you face. So we just want to hear your story and 67 00:05:01.310 --> 00:05:05.509 offer help. And I know they've probably told you that we lie and that 68 00:05:06.110 --> 00:05:09.779 you know, but information never hurts. I'm telling you, you don't lie. 69 00:05:09.779 --> 00:05:15.019 Everything that we offer we follow through on, but just the information has 70 00:05:15.139 --> 00:05:20.970 just so much, you know, knowledge and information that can help you and 71 00:05:21.769 --> 00:05:26.810 there's never reason not to know all the facts before you do something, as 72 00:05:27.370 --> 00:05:31.170 you know, Vinal, as as taking your child's life. Right. Yeah, 73 00:05:31.250 --> 00:05:36.360 so basically I guess what's going on, I drink and smoke and I 74 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:42.240 I kind of felt like I might be pregnant, but I didn't really think 75 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:45.639 I was. Okay, and then when I found out I was like ten 76 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:47.879 weeks along. So wow, this baby's going to be so messed up and 77 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:53.350 I don't want to bring a disabled baby into the world. All I've done. 78 00:05:53.870 --> 00:05:57.589 Have you? Have you been to a doctor? Yeah, at this 79 00:05:57.709 --> 00:06:00.629 point, okay, have and you know you're pregnant. Did you? Did 80 00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:02.589 you do an ultrasound? He or she do an ultra sound or anything like 81 00:06:02.670 --> 00:06:06.339 that? So you saw the baby? Well, I didn't want to. 82 00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:11.339 I just did that dodger look at the baby where they able? They said 83 00:06:11.459 --> 00:06:14.500 the babies alive, has a beating heart. Did they tell you any of 84 00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:18.810 that? Yeah, okay. So, so you saw the baby. Your 85 00:06:18.889 --> 00:06:26.610 big concern is that you've been smoking and drinking. I are you still or 86 00:06:26.730 --> 00:06:30.129 did you stop when you found out you were pregnant? I mean, yeah, 87 00:06:30.209 --> 00:06:32.759 I did stop, okay, but why? What made you stop? 88 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:38.279 I just didn't know what would happen, I guess. And okay, so 89 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:40.879 there was, at least for a moment, in your heart, was this 90 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.160 concern you knew you were carrying a child, another human being, and did 91 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:50.029 you feel some sort of responsibility towards that person? Yeah, I guess I've 92 00:06:50.389 --> 00:06:56.790 heard that in in your concern that this is a your baby. It is 93 00:06:56.870 --> 00:07:00.740 your baby, I mean it's in your womb right and and the doctors at 94 00:07:00.740 --> 00:07:03.980 least saw it and I assume they have told you that the baby is alive. 95 00:07:05.459 --> 00:07:12.259 But there's this concern that maybe you've harmed that person and you know what 96 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:16.610 that's like. That's how we should feel, I mean that is the normal 97 00:07:16.730 --> 00:07:24.810 maternal instinct, that we should care about that child and desire to nurture and 98 00:07:24.850 --> 00:07:27.930 protect it. I mean that that's what the womb is designed for. Do 99 00:07:28.009 --> 00:07:30.199 you believe in God? No, no, okay, not at all. 100 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.600 Do you believe in a higher power? Yeah, there's I believe there's like 101 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:39.800 a higher power somewhere, but I don't know about okay, called this. 102 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:43.800 Okay. So there is a creator, then that maybe said all this in 103 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:49.990 motion, something creator. So you were created, right. Do you believe 104 00:07:50.069 --> 00:07:53.589 that that you were created, that there was a God that created you? 105 00:07:53.709 --> 00:07:58.230 May Be Right. There may be an and and that baby maybe was created 106 00:07:58.350 --> 00:08:05.060 by by that same higher power. And the womb is the one organ in 107 00:08:07.699 --> 00:08:11.970 the human body, male or female, that was not designed for us. 108 00:08:13.689 --> 00:08:16.490 Not at all. There's no no purpose in the womb for you, for 109 00:08:16.610 --> 00:08:24.370 your survival. The womb is specifically designed for one purpose, for another human 110 00:08:24.449 --> 00:08:28.879 being. Another human being should do you agree that that is another human being 111 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:33.799 that's in your womb? I I yeah, I think I do. Okay, 112 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.399 or maybe you have some doubts, for let me tell you that every 113 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:43.269 medical textbook says that human development begins at the moment of conception. Here's a 114 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:48.990 really cool little fact. Did you know when the sperm meets the egg in 115 00:08:48.110 --> 00:08:54.870 the darkness of the womb there is a flash of light. Wow, isn't 116 00:08:54.870 --> 00:08:58.100 that a sen and and a you know, if you know your Bible at 117 00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:03.220 all, God creates, you know, the heavens and the earth and and 118 00:09:03.379 --> 00:09:07.259 then he says let there be light, light. Yet another much if we 119 00:09:07.340 --> 00:09:13.690 ever mentioned do you know? Do you know? Jesus is called what you 120 00:09:13.809 --> 00:09:16.809 probably don't know, if you don't know God, he's called the light of 121 00:09:16.929 --> 00:09:22.450 the world, the light of the world. And isn't it fascinating that at 122 00:09:22.490 --> 00:09:26.440 that moment of conception there is a spark of light? They've seen it. 123 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.720 There's photographs of that. You can look this up for yourself. And it's 124 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:37.639 dark in the world. There's so it's to me this speaks so clearly of 125 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:43.269 the truth of who God is. God is a God of light and he 126 00:09:43.549 --> 00:09:50.509 dispels the darkness and when he enters, which is at the moment of conception, 127 00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:54.700 he knows us, He created us, he loves us, he is 128 00:09:54.940 --> 00:09:58.620 light. He is light in the darkness. Now this place here, I 129 00:10:00.179 --> 00:10:03.460 saw you kind of walking a little bit slowly, little bit of hesitancy. 130 00:10:05.019 --> 00:10:09.330 You feel this desire as a mother to protect that child and that's part of 131 00:10:09.409 --> 00:10:13.529 your reason why you want to take that child's life. So, as you're 132 00:10:13.570 --> 00:10:20.289 walking here, would you say that's a place of goodness and light and hope? 133 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:28.279 Would you characterize it as a place of darkness and loss of hope and 134 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:37.470 fear and despair? Maybe it feels to me like darkness or despair because of 135 00:10:37.549 --> 00:10:41.029 my situation, but I feel like they're really just trying to help people and 136 00:10:41.110 --> 00:10:43.789 I feel like they're trying to provide a way out. Yeah, well, 137 00:10:43.990 --> 00:10:50.220 they're trying to help people who are intent on taking their child's life. Now, 138 00:10:50.259 --> 00:10:56.179 I understand that your issue is that you're afraid that your child might be 139 00:10:56.379 --> 00:11:01.860 born with a disability. If, first of all, if God is true, 140 00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:07.370 if Jesus is real, and I know you're not quite sure about that, 141 00:11:07.289 --> 00:11:13.450 then and he's the Creator and the child is created already with the plan 142 00:11:13.570 --> 00:11:18.639 and a purpose, just as as as you were. But even if God 143 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:24.679 were not the one who created that little baby, that little baby has all 144 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:30.960 the human DNA she will ever have from the moment of conception. And if 145 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.629 you're ten to twelve weeks, a little baby already has developed ovaries. And 146 00:11:33.750 --> 00:11:41.110 do you know that already within those ovaries are your future grandchildren? The eggs 147 00:11:41.190 --> 00:11:46.509 in fact that the baby before they're born has more eggs than they lose eggs 148 00:11:46.549 --> 00:11:52.659 as as they progressed through life after birth. So so is that kind of 149 00:11:52.740 --> 00:12:01.169 a miraculous design, that that you, your baby, your grandchildren, all 150 00:12:01.289 --> 00:12:07.330 of you really are facing a decision right now. The decision you make today 151 00:12:07.409 --> 00:12:11.809 on whether that baby might be born with the disability is going to affect you, 152 00:12:13.850 --> 00:12:16.720 and I can tell you that, as opposed to bortive woman, I 153 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:20.240 know I didn't know the Lord when I had the abortions. I was like 154 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:22.440 you. I didn't know God. I thought maybe there was a creator. 155 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:28.080 Wasn't even sure about that, and I didn't think twice about that abortion. 156 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:31.590 But I will tell you, when I had the first child that I wanted, 157 00:12:33.870 --> 00:12:37.990 my life changed and the first thing I thought about said baby that I 158 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:43.669 killed, and that's when I fell on my knees before God. and honestly, 159 00:12:43.830 --> 00:12:48.500 not a day goes by that I don't remember that decision with despair and 160 00:12:48.700 --> 00:12:52.620 wish that I could take it back, but of course I can't. But 161 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:56.340 that's why I'm here, because there's no certainty at all that your baby's been 162 00:12:56.419 --> 00:12:58.649 harmed. Non Now, can you harm your baby by what you do, 163 00:12:58.809 --> 00:13:03.450 yes, but amazingly and beautifully and again another proof, in my opinion, 164 00:13:03.490 --> 00:13:09.809 of God's perfect design is that in that first trimester that baby is so protected 165 00:13:09.169 --> 00:13:13.600 and before the Placenta and the the well not sent up at the Umbilical Court. 166 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:20.200 Is passing in blood between you and and the and the baby. Your 167 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.360 things inside of your system are not being passed on to that child. So 168 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:28.230 your baby could be fine. In the really the best majority of cases, 169 00:13:28.350 --> 00:13:33.350 the baby is. I would recommende you continue not to drink and not to 170 00:13:35.110 --> 00:13:39.070 to smoke, and we have all kinds of programs that we can connect to 171 00:13:39.230 --> 00:13:43.100 it. But we also have resources that connect that can that we can connect 172 00:13:43.100 --> 00:13:46.700 to with that will help you no matter what you pays, including a mentor 173 00:13:46.820 --> 00:13:52.059 that will walk alongside you and encourage you through this process. But I think 174 00:13:52.100 --> 00:13:56.009 the very first step right now is just would you be willing to sit down 175 00:13:56.049 --> 00:14:00.409 and let me share, from kind of beginning to end, the truth of 176 00:14:00.490 --> 00:14:05.049 who God is and why he loves you and why he loves that trial. 177 00:14:05.529 --> 00:14:09.769 I'm willing to listen. Okay, okay, come on, maybe, come 178 00:14:09.809 --> 00:14:15.559 on over here. That's going the shade and we can't. Okay, well, 179 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:16.879 we hope that was a blessing to you, guess, and that you 180 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:22.279 learned something. If nothing else, you learned what not to say from our 181 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:26.190 friend Vickie. I'm just kidding. It's kidding, Wickis for fun, but 182 00:14:26.230 --> 00:14:30.629 let's give into it. There were parts of it that were very inspired. 183 00:14:30.990 --> 00:14:35.789 Okay, cool, inspired, I hope, by the Holy Spirit. Okay, 184 00:14:35.870 --> 00:14:41.340 we'll find out as we as we critique this thing. Yeah, one 185 00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:43.220 of the first things I want to mention, of course, she's walking up 186 00:14:43.539 --> 00:14:48.620 and you greet her and right away you get the litteratuender their hands. So 187 00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:50.539 that's important, although she did brush me off. I didn't know if you 188 00:14:50.620 --> 00:14:54.649 saw that. Initially she was trying to just get away. She really didn't 189 00:14:54.649 --> 00:14:58.409 want me to approach. That is obviously a very common sure occurrence. So 190 00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:05.850 we do our best to persist gently and kindly. Right, yeah, gentle 191 00:15:05.049 --> 00:15:13.600 persistence, maybe holy ghost inspired annoyance. I don't know. We'd had. 192 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.440 We've had one young lady in particular, I think has happened before, to 193 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:22.590 where they've gone in and out of the abortion center several times and we keep 194 00:15:22.629 --> 00:15:24.990 on calling out to them and they said it's because of our persistence that they 195 00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:28.629 finally came over and talk to us. So, yeah, that's a little 196 00:15:28.629 --> 00:15:31.750 encouragement for you guys. Be Persistent and don't forget this is a life and 197 00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:35.299 death situation, right, so if we bother them a little bit, if 198 00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:39.299 we get on their nerves a little bit, we're not harassing them, but 199 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.820 we're dealing with the murder of a child. You trying to save them from 200 00:15:43.820 --> 00:15:48.299 the horror that comes to them because of abortion, but also save their baby. 201 00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:50.370 So right, that's a sad note. Yeah, one of the things 202 00:15:50.450 --> 00:15:54.210 it really stuck out to me in this, which is true, it does 203 00:15:54.330 --> 00:15:58.970 happen from time to time, actually kind of often, is maddie mentioned. 204 00:15:58.409 --> 00:16:02.529 I've heard a lot about you guys. Oh yes, yeah, and I 205 00:16:02.690 --> 00:16:07.519 really, I really wanted tonight again. I guess I could use feedback on 206 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.600 whether what I did say and do was appropriate, but I wanted to hit 207 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.480 that head on and just say, yes, they say we lie, they 208 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.509 say that we're not nice, whatever, and to counter that and say that 209 00:16:19.710 --> 00:16:22.909 it's not true. What they say about is is not true. Right, 210 00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:29.509 yeah, I think just drilling into that is important. Acknowledging it. Oh, 211 00:16:29.549 --> 00:16:32.190 yes, they told you that we're, you know, crazy, angry 212 00:16:32.230 --> 00:16:36.299 protesters, right, the question that I'll ask often times when I hear that. 213 00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:37.659 Also, they told you when you were coming, to watch out for 214 00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:41.539 us because we're angry protesters. Do I look like an angry protester? Yeah, 215 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:45.659 yeah, and that kind of gives me the ability to springboard off of 216 00:16:45.740 --> 00:16:48.690 that to because what I want to do is I want to transfer the trust 217 00:16:48.970 --> 00:16:52.769 that they have in the abortion center to me and ultimately to the Lord. 218 00:16:52.769 --> 00:16:56.250 And so I contrast. They told you this, but here's what you're seeing. 219 00:16:56.289 --> 00:17:00.529 Right. Can you really believe everything else they told you? Right, 220 00:17:00.009 --> 00:17:03.400 don't get doubt. Good. They also told you that they're here to help 221 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.480 women. They also told you that your baby's a blob of tissue or product 222 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.839 of conception or whatever. Right, and so maybe that's stuff. Yes, 223 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:15.950 up for question to write. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so 224 00:17:15.069 --> 00:17:18.950 that was an important thing, I think, to dispel the lies that they've 225 00:17:18.950 --> 00:17:22.109 been told, to not shy away from that or just ignore that, but 226 00:17:22.190 --> 00:17:26.190 to acknowledge, and I think you did acknowledge that there was a little bit 227 00:17:26.269 --> 00:17:32.460 of of well, I think toward the end a little bit of hesitency as 228 00:17:32.539 --> 00:17:33.900 she was walking to the clinic, and sometimes you can pick up on that. 229 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:37.059 So maybe we'll talk about that toward the end, because that's when you 230 00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:41.059 takes us a little bit later, later on there. But but yeah, 231 00:17:41.059 --> 00:17:45.650 but one of the immediate things that I did and that I think we all 232 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:51.250 should do, we should all remember that. However long that session last, 233 00:17:51.970 --> 00:17:55.529 we don't know. Yeah, we don't know. And so it's important to 234 00:17:55.650 --> 00:18:00.359 get important facts out there fast, the important things that you want to say 235 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:03.839 out there fast. Sure. So right away what I tried to do is 236 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:08.160 introduce the idea of the value of that child right to God, yeah, 237 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.559 the development of the baby. Yeah, and that's something that us all throughout 238 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:17.109 this entire counseling session is you weaving in the humanity of the baby, really 239 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:21.750 talking about that, really making that baby a person. That baby is a 240 00:18:21.829 --> 00:18:25.990 person, but helping to make that baby a person to that mother. Yeah, 241 00:18:25.990 --> 00:18:27.500 I think you do that really well. Yeah. Well, thank you, 242 00:18:27.940 --> 00:18:36.900 especially, I think, because she gave really good openings, and they 243 00:18:36.940 --> 00:18:40.779 always do. There will always be openings if you pray for the Holy Spirit 244 00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:44.210 that you can like stick your foot in that door that they have just opened. 245 00:18:44.569 --> 00:18:48.650 When she talked about that, she was drinking and smoking and she was 246 00:18:48.809 --> 00:18:55.049 concerned about the that the child would be disabled. Yeah, and then I 247 00:18:55.210 --> 00:19:00.519 asked, are you still and she said no, and using that to springboard 248 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:06.200 into the idea of well, that shows a level of care and concern for 249 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:10.750 for that baby, and so she gave me that. That was a gift 250 00:19:10.910 --> 00:19:14.150 that she probably wasn't really thinking about us as she offered that, but that 251 00:19:14.309 --> 00:19:18.190 was a gift to then really talk about. That's what is a normal maternal 252 00:19:18.269 --> 00:19:22.670 response and that's what what you should feel. Yeah, absolutely, the desire 253 00:19:22.750 --> 00:19:29.259 to protect that child. So so, yeah, that another thing, another 254 00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:36.740 counseling, I guess concept to remember is you're going to hear terrible things. 255 00:19:36.940 --> 00:19:41.730 You're going to hear things from the mom's what they have done in in knowing 256 00:19:41.809 --> 00:19:45.529 that they're pregnant. That will curl your toes. Oh yeah, I mean 257 00:19:45.849 --> 00:19:49.609 a mom saying this, this woman saying that I've been drinking and smoking and 258 00:19:51.009 --> 00:19:55.880 you have to be so careful not to express horror. Oh Yeah, because 259 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.960 that will shut that conversation down if she feels condemned. I was in a 260 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.759 real situation, I would be horrified. I would know, especially alcohol, 261 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:10.950 that actually can be very devastating for all. Alcohol Syndrome can be very devastating 262 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:17.109 and I think that that damage from that can occur even in the first towards 263 00:20:17.150 --> 00:20:22.660 the end of the first trimester. So that is a dangerous thing, yeah, 264 00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:25.180 for a mom to still be doing. Yeah, and it is a 265 00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:27.180 terrible thing for mom to do to her baby. Right. Yeah, but 266 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:32.819 in that that scenario, just you drinking and smoking. What's what's wrong with 267 00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:36.569 you? Yeah, exactly. That's what you should say. Is that a 268 00:20:36.609 --> 00:20:40.970 horrible thing to do? Yes, it is. Yeah, but abortions even 269 00:20:41.250 --> 00:20:44.089 more of a horrible thing because in that situation, could it affect the baby? 270 00:20:44.289 --> 00:20:47.569 It certainly could. Yeah, but in an abortion, could it affect 271 00:20:47.609 --> 00:20:49.400 the baby? Well, it's certainly going to. That's right now, no 272 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.559 doubt about it. So you want to make sure that the way you come 273 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:59.440 across is one of not accepting of her behavior, but also you don't want 274 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.759 to shut the conversation down right away, and I do think it's appropriate to 275 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:06.630 mention in the course of the conversation. I don't think it's appropriate to mention 276 00:21:06.710 --> 00:21:08.269 like right away. Don't you know that can hurt your baby? Right. 277 00:21:08.390 --> 00:21:11.509 I think it is important as you're building a relationship with her, because that's 278 00:21:11.509 --> 00:21:15.789 what you're doing in any conversation like this that you're having a one on one 279 00:21:15.829 --> 00:21:19.619 conversation, your relationship building, you're trying to build a relationship, you're trying 280 00:21:19.700 --> 00:21:23.299 to build trust. Once you, in the course of the conversation, got 281 00:21:23.380 --> 00:21:27.059 her trust, that's when you can mention those sort of things. Like when 282 00:21:27.099 --> 00:21:30.819 I'm talking to men, I will talk about fornication, I will talk about 283 00:21:30.819 --> 00:21:34.450 sex outside of marriage. Probably not talking about it on the front end, 284 00:21:34.529 --> 00:21:37.049 though, so much, yeah, as when I build a little bit of 285 00:21:37.130 --> 00:21:41.970 relationship with them, I mentioned to them about sex outside of merit, because 286 00:21:41.970 --> 00:21:45.170 I don't want to shut the conversation down immediately, and so I think you 287 00:21:45.289 --> 00:21:48.839 did an excellent job in that. One of the things Maddie said basically was 288 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:52.680 what she said, I think, word for word. This baby is going 289 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.519 to be so messed up. Sometimes the yeah, and you have to ask 290 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.039 yourself, okay, where did she get that idea? Right, yeah, 291 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:04.269 because if I'm hearing that, I'm thinking, well, of course we know 292 00:22:04.430 --> 00:22:08.549 that a right. Yeah, but my guess is going to be that she's 293 00:22:08.589 --> 00:22:15.630 got some friends that have been speaking into her situation and being giving her reasons 294 00:22:15.259 --> 00:22:18.339 that it's okay to have an abortion. Yeah, do you know what I'm 295 00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:22.180 saying that's what we do when we know something is wrong. And Listen, 296 00:22:22.460 --> 00:22:25.859 people know, women know that abortion is wrong. We look for, we 297 00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:30.890 grasp for reasons to make it justifiable. And that's her reason. And so 298 00:22:30.970 --> 00:22:33.250 when you're talking to these MOMS, you talking to these DADS, look for 299 00:22:33.369 --> 00:22:37.490 that, because that's that's the thing that basically I go for when I ask 300 00:22:37.569 --> 00:22:40.650 the question if we could take care of one thing going on in your life, 301 00:22:40.690 --> 00:22:41.569 with that one thing, be yeah, or's. You know, I 302 00:22:41.569 --> 00:22:45.519 might frame it a little differently. Yeah, but really what you're looking for 303 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:51.279 is that thing that gives them the justification that they need to kill their child 304 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:55.519 and to make it a good decision. Yeah, and the way you're going 305 00:22:55.640 --> 00:23:00.829 to hear that, it is not always immediately offered, but the way you're 306 00:23:00.829 --> 00:23:04.630 going to finally truly get at the root of a matter is ask questions. 307 00:23:04.750 --> 00:23:10.869 Keep asking questions. I learned that on a counseling session I had just this 308 00:23:11.069 --> 00:23:14.900 weekend where it was a long, long session and it was until a half 309 00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:21.099 an hour into talking to this mom that I truly understood why she really was 310 00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:26.180 there, what the issue was, and I didn't know. So I just 311 00:23:26.380 --> 00:23:30.250 asked the Holy Spirit to guide me. I didn't know what to say, 312 00:23:30.369 --> 00:23:33.890 I didn't know how to enter into like a gospel discussion, or even really 313 00:23:33.049 --> 00:23:37.849 but to offer her. So I just kept asking questions. And if you 314 00:23:38.009 --> 00:23:44.640 keep asking questions, eventually they're going to say something that is going to help 315 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.160 you, yeah, to to Spring Board into whatever it is that you should 316 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.000 be talking to them about now. Now, I did notice something that I 317 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.589 would critique you on, okay, and it's something that I think happens in 318 00:23:56.670 --> 00:23:59.549 every conversation. Yes, so it's not so much a critique for you, 319 00:23:59.710 --> 00:24:02.470 it's a critique, critique for all of us, Uh Huh. But when 320 00:24:02.470 --> 00:24:04.910 you're having these conversations, you're passionate, you're trying to get information there. 321 00:24:06.150 --> 00:24:10.259 You you don't want to lose them and you don't want to leave so much 322 00:24:10.299 --> 00:24:12.460 space for them just to babble. Sometimes you can interrupt them, and I 323 00:24:12.579 --> 00:24:15.220 know this. At one point right she was going to finish a statement but 324 00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:19.619 you interrupted and came on in there. And again, that's not just a 325 00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:22.940 critique for you as a critique for all of us, just something we do 326 00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:26.569 because we're trying to continue in a train of thought. But I do think 327 00:24:26.730 --> 00:24:33.730 to me a a gallon of listening is worth a pint of talking, and 328 00:24:33.890 --> 00:24:37.690 so if we can listen, as long as we're not losing them, if 329 00:24:37.769 --> 00:24:41.240 we can listen, it gives us a lot more fuel to continue the conversation 330 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:45.920 and also it lets them know that we're they're not just to deliver information, 331 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.599 but to build a relationship with them. Yeah, yeah, that's a really 332 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:56.349 good point and that's actually something that I struggle with period. I want to 333 00:24:56.430 --> 00:25:00.069 get my thoughts out. Yeah, and so I interrupt a lot. I 334 00:25:00.309 --> 00:25:02.309 know I do that. I probably do it to you all the time. 335 00:25:02.430 --> 00:25:04.589 Yeah, you do. Yeah, sorry about that, but let me give 336 00:25:04.589 --> 00:25:07.700 you a counterpoint. I agree with you. By the way, in this 337 00:25:07.819 --> 00:25:11.460 counseling session, you're absolutely correct. And and this was a mom that was 338 00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:15.180 hearing me, she wasn't trying to shut me up or anything. If you 339 00:25:15.460 --> 00:25:22.089 have a mom like one I had today that was talking about this just kind 340 00:25:22.130 --> 00:25:30.049 of really off the wall spiritual beliefs, yeah, and getting into reasons why 341 00:25:30.970 --> 00:25:36.440 she should be able to abort because of these really off the wall spiritual beliefs, 342 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.400 and I am we're walking back towards the abortion center, and I know 343 00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:44.440 how I have limited time. That was a purposeful interruption. I made a 344 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:49.000 purposeful interruption because I thought I'm running out of time. She's just feeding further 345 00:25:49.269 --> 00:25:53.470 into the rationalizations for why to abhort and I've got maybe three more minutes till 346 00:25:53.470 --> 00:25:59.950 we get there. And I did purposely stop her talking. Yeah, by 347 00:26:00.269 --> 00:26:06.539 introducing what I thought were more truthful, realistic discussions about the value of that 348 00:26:06.619 --> 00:26:11.220 child and value of God. And in those situations when you interrupt, because 349 00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:15.220 I know exactly what you're talking about. I mean I've had so many conversations 350 00:26:15.339 --> 00:26:18.380 where I've had to just say hey, I get what you're saying, and 351 00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:19.730 that's what I do when I interrupt. I don't just come in with my 352 00:26:19.849 --> 00:26:25.529 statement, but I'm like this, I understand that and I'm hear what you're 353 00:26:25.529 --> 00:26:29.849 saying. What can I just say? Yeah, and then I say what? 354 00:26:30.009 --> 00:26:33.400 Yea What? And it's good in the relation away building the relation, 355 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:36.079 because what you don't want to do is you don't want to shut shut the 356 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:40.720 conversation down, pretty surely, but you also have to realize that the conversation 357 00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:44.839 typically when you're standing in front of the abortion center or they're you know, 358 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.390 they're walking into the abortion center, it's going to end at some point. 359 00:26:48.710 --> 00:26:51.750 Right, it's now, once you get them away, kind of like you 360 00:26:51.869 --> 00:26:53.190 did toward the end of this you let's go sit down over here in the 361 00:26:53.230 --> 00:26:56.630 shade, let's go in the Mobultra sound unit, let's get down the road 362 00:26:56.670 --> 00:27:00.109 to a pregnancy center. Then you've got more time, right. But right 363 00:27:00.150 --> 00:27:03.500 there in front of the abortion center, right there, is they're walking into 364 00:27:03.500 --> 00:27:07.220 their appointment. You got to be as concise as possible. We got to 365 00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:11.859 get to the point as much as possible and then balance being relational as well. 366 00:27:11.980 --> 00:27:15.500 It's not an easy balance, right, and so sometimes we'll get off 367 00:27:15.619 --> 00:27:19.009 balance and it's sometimes of necessity we do that. Yeah, and it is 368 00:27:19.130 --> 00:27:25.769 definitely harder when you know, okay, there's a baby's life really is hanging 369 00:27:25.809 --> 00:27:29.009 in the balance. That wasn't the case. I knew in the mock session. 370 00:27:29.049 --> 00:27:32.680 Right, she's a pregnant exactly. No, baby's going to die. 371 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.039 So it is a little bit artificial. Yeah, artificial there. But but 372 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:45.829 yeah, I thought also in terms of critiquing, that I also really never 373 00:27:45.869 --> 00:27:52.109 acknowledged her concerns about the dangerous activity and that it could indeed be harmful, 374 00:27:52.190 --> 00:27:56.309 in that the fears were rational. I really think, yes, I think 375 00:27:56.430 --> 00:28:00.740 that you did. Oh, you do well in the sense this. This 376 00:28:00.859 --> 00:28:04.339 is what I really liked, because you took that whole concern for her baby, 377 00:28:04.380 --> 00:28:08.299 because you did. You Did articulate understand your concern for your baby and 378 00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:14.009 you kind of turned it around and used it as fuel to help her to 379 00:28:14.089 --> 00:28:18.250 see that this is a natural so you said something like that maternal instinct that 380 00:28:18.329 --> 00:28:21.089 you feel that you want to protect your baby, right, and that you 381 00:28:21.369 --> 00:28:25.329 you don't want any harm to had come to your child. Yeah, is 382 00:28:25.450 --> 00:28:27.759 actually a God given thing, because you know that you want to protect your 383 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:32.160 child. Okay. Now, obviously that's been perverted because you're going to kill 384 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:36.160 your child because you don't want your child to suffer. That doesn't make sense, 385 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.279 right, but you're bringing that to their knowledge, like, and using 386 00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:41.829 it as a springboard, yeah, to really show them there's something in you 387 00:28:42.509 --> 00:28:45.589 that wants to do the right thing toward your child. Yeah, and that's 388 00:28:45.670 --> 00:28:51.069 something. Let's go in a positive direction with that, rather than taking it 389 00:28:51.150 --> 00:28:53.309 into a direction where you're going to kill that child. Yeah, okay, 390 00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:56.900 well, good, so I can cross that off of something I need to 391 00:28:56.980 --> 00:28:59.740 improve and maybe you could have improved on it a little more. I'm not 392 00:28:59.859 --> 00:29:04.099 sure. I think possibly one of the ways I might have improved on that 393 00:29:06.059 --> 00:29:08.859 is what we always talk about suffering with them right, with compassion, and 394 00:29:10.009 --> 00:29:11.970 just kind of taking that in. Oh yeah, I understand. I don't 395 00:29:12.009 --> 00:29:15.529 know that you so much did that, but it's not like she came up 396 00:29:15.529 --> 00:29:18.970 to you weeping her eyes out. You know I'm saying, it's like she 397 00:29:18.049 --> 00:29:22.609 puts this in. It's obvious that she puts this out there as just a 398 00:29:22.769 --> 00:29:26.440 justification, not that she to me now again, this is just a moccess, 399 00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:30.759 since it was. It wasn't for real, but there wasn't a whole 400 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.880 lot of pain in that statement. Deeply concerned. It was more like, 401 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:36.440 yeah, I'm just concerned this baby's gonna be all messed up. Right. 402 00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:38.950 So what a whole lot, you know, to suffer with our end. 403 00:29:40.029 --> 00:29:44.150 But maybe you could have put more emotion into that and more like connecting with 404 00:29:44.269 --> 00:29:45.109 that, because, I mean, at the end of the day, that 405 00:29:45.269 --> 00:29:48.789 is a valid concern and if that's truly a concern for her, we need 406 00:29:48.869 --> 00:29:52.299 to identify with that as much as we can. Write that it's a justification 407 00:29:52.420 --> 00:29:56.740 for abortion, but in her mind it is. And then, of course, 408 00:29:56.859 --> 00:29:59.420 like you did, kind of turn it on its head bring around to 409 00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:00.740 it. Well, this is no reason to kill your child. Yeah, 410 00:30:00.779 --> 00:30:04.700 well, as I was thinking through, you can't say everything that you wish 411 00:30:04.779 --> 00:30:07.369 that you could say. Ever, if there's always going to be things you 412 00:30:07.410 --> 00:30:12.809 couldn't say. But I never mentioned Rehab program or anything like that, and 413 00:30:12.970 --> 00:30:18.690 I wondered if I should have. Well, I mean actually you did. 414 00:30:18.009 --> 00:30:22.880 You did. You didn't mention, don't remember particularly a Rehab Program, but 415 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.880 toward the end you talked about the resources and I think you even said that 416 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:32.960 we have places, I think specifically for you. Didn't say Rehab, but 417 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.549 to me I got from it and I think the person that you were counseling. 418 00:30:37.109 --> 00:30:40.990 What did we call Maddie in this sad again, I guess she's always 419 00:30:41.029 --> 00:30:42.470 there. I don't remember what we cook at. I don't think you got 420 00:30:42.509 --> 00:30:45.829 her name and that maybe, which actually would be a problem, wouldn't it? 421 00:30:45.950 --> 00:30:48.349 Yeah, yeah, that was one of the things that you do. 422 00:30:48.710 --> 00:30:51.779 You did not get her name and I don't think I ever you know why 423 00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:53.940 you didn't get her name, because you met her several times before her and 424 00:30:55.099 --> 00:31:00.740 Sarah obviously sleep right. Anyway, I think you did. You didn't mention 425 00:31:00.819 --> 00:31:06.730 resources. You didn't mention places. Gosh, you didn't use the word Rehab, 426 00:31:07.049 --> 00:31:08.930 but that's what I got from it. Maybe I'll just read into maybe 427 00:31:08.970 --> 00:31:14.450 I did that, but I'm I'm actually agreen with your earlier statement because I 428 00:31:14.529 --> 00:31:19.000 know this is one of my weaknesses as as a human being, that as 429 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:26.440 a counselor, is listening more carefully and really making other people feel they're heard. 430 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.000 Yeah, I don't think I do that super well. It I do 431 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:32.519 it, I have to do it consciously. It doesn't come supernaturally to me. 432 00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:34.789 I think it does come naturally to you. Okay, so it's something 433 00:31:34.869 --> 00:31:37.950 that I really have to say, contient, it doesn't come supernaturally to you. 434 00:31:38.230 --> 00:31:41.309 Know it doesn't. You mean it doesn't come naturally, but the Lord 435 00:31:41.430 --> 00:31:45.910 helps you to get it supernaturally. Actually, sometimes I get okay, that's 436 00:31:45.910 --> 00:31:48.420 good, but but, for example, another thing that I felt I could 437 00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:52.819 have improved upon when she talked about the ultrasound, I asked if this was 438 00:31:52.819 --> 00:31:56.380 pretty early on. I said, did you have an ultra sound of the 439 00:31:56.420 --> 00:32:00.579 baby, and she said yes, and then I said so you saw the 440 00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:04.769 baby, and she said no, yeah, I never. That was again 441 00:32:04.769 --> 00:32:09.849 a golden opportunity to say why not. Yeah, what? She even specifically 442 00:32:09.890 --> 00:32:14.730 said something to the effect of I didn't really want to see it, right, 443 00:32:14.970 --> 00:32:16.480 which is kind of weird. Yeah, I mean, because you're thinking, 444 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:21.039 in real life, would you go to nobi doctor and not want to 445 00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:22.200 see it? Not Want to see the ultra sound, because that was what 446 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:27.720 was implied there, right, Um, so you didn't run with that. 447 00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:30.589 I didn't run with that and I, you know, in retrospect, I 448 00:32:30.670 --> 00:32:34.509 thought that, were this a real life situation, counselors, we need to 449 00:32:34.549 --> 00:32:37.150 jump on that. Yeah, why not? Because again she's giving us a 450 00:32:37.269 --> 00:32:43.109 golden opportunity to say, there is something in your heart that recognizes if you 451 00:32:43.349 --> 00:32:46.819 look at that ultrasound, abortion will be unthinkable. Yeah, well, you 452 00:32:46.859 --> 00:32:50.259 would have looked at the altar, yea. Yeah, it certainly would have 453 00:32:50.299 --> 00:32:53.460 been a statement in a moment that would have been helpful to capitalize home, 454 00:32:53.579 --> 00:32:58.970 for sure. Right now, I do want to say because one of my 455 00:32:59.089 --> 00:33:05.490 lessons again from something that happened this weekending counseling. I came away thinking all 456 00:33:05.569 --> 00:33:07.089 the millions of things you, I could have said, could have done. 457 00:33:07.289 --> 00:33:13.519 We all do that, right, but then I thought of afterwards, I 458 00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:16.640 found out things that I hadn't known while I was doing the counseling session and 459 00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:22.079 realized wow, when I was counseling, the things that I did focus on 460 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:27.750 were exactly not only what that woman needed to hear, but what some other 461 00:33:27.829 --> 00:33:32.470 people needed to hear. And so it occurred to me to really make this 462 00:33:32.710 --> 00:33:38.390 point for everyone in a counseling situation. If the Holy Spirit dwells you, 463 00:33:38.950 --> 00:33:44.380 the Holy Spirit knows the situation, he knows the person you're counseling and he 464 00:33:44.700 --> 00:33:49.299 knows what is necessary. Right, and to trust that, yeah, so 465 00:33:49.539 --> 00:33:52.940 that the things that you've left out we can all learn learn from from, 466 00:33:53.059 --> 00:33:55.450 like what we're doing right now, and maybe do better next time. But 467 00:33:55.769 --> 00:34:00.529 sometimes the things that you have left out there was a reason and the things 468 00:34:00.609 --> 00:34:05.730 that you focused on there was a divine, yeah, reason, and to 469 00:34:05.809 --> 00:34:07.329 trust that. Yeah, and that's why I would say, if I could 470 00:34:07.329 --> 00:34:14.480 give you guys that are listening, one single key to being an effective sidewalk 471 00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:17.360 counselor, it would be walk with God. Yes, walk with the Lord. 472 00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:21.559 I mean listen these mock sessions, listen these podcasts, get training, 473 00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:23.989 all that stuff. That stuff's great, yeah, but if you're not walking 474 00:34:24.030 --> 00:34:28.710 with the Lord, it's all just a bunch of information. That's you got 475 00:34:28.789 --> 00:34:31.150 to be walking with Jesus. He knows what's going on far more than we 476 00:34:31.269 --> 00:34:36.829 ever will. Yeah, and he can. He can guide the conversation if 477 00:34:36.829 --> 00:34:39.260 you're in tune with him, and it is important to be prepared. I 478 00:34:39.380 --> 00:34:45.500 totally again again, I agree with everything you've said, but you should also 479 00:34:45.980 --> 00:34:52.929 be prepared. And one of the things that I think I knew and did 480 00:34:52.409 --> 00:34:58.730 did okay in this session, was I knew about that spark of light at 481 00:34:58.769 --> 00:35:05.809 the moment of conception because I read about development of babies and what happens in 482 00:35:05.889 --> 00:35:08.239 you drown all because I know there might be something that's going to be said 483 00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:13.360 in whatever article I'm reading that I'm going to be able to use, and 484 00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:19.119 then, if it's something really good like that, I remember that and was 485 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.909 able to use that. She didn't know that fact. Most people don't know 486 00:35:22.030 --> 00:35:27.269 that fact right, but was then able to use that to get into a 487 00:35:27.349 --> 00:35:31.510 discussion about God and the miracle of God, even in just that simple fact 488 00:35:31.670 --> 00:35:36.420 of what happened in the darkness of the womb, and use that to paint 489 00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:42.260 a picture for her of like versus darkness and the choice choices that that she 490 00:35:42.380 --> 00:35:47.659 faced yeah, so be prepared and and be able to use some of that 491 00:35:47.900 --> 00:35:53.849 preparation to guide and develop a conversation. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and 492 00:35:54.010 --> 00:35:58.650 you kind of you went right into do you believe in God? That was 493 00:35:58.690 --> 00:36:01.570 pretty early in the conversation. Right. I think it's important to go ahead 494 00:36:01.570 --> 00:36:04.760 and ask that question. Do you believe in God? It gives you an 495 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:06.960 ability. It doesn't mean you don't mention the Lord. When they say no, 496 00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:09.159 like she did. Right, still going to talk about God, but 497 00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:12.840 it gives you at least where you're coming from. You know, if they 498 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:14.960 say, Oh, yeah, believe in God, I believe the bibles that 499 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:16.320 were to God. I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe. 500 00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:21.190 You know all those like you can bring all that stuff up right, 501 00:36:21.349 --> 00:36:23.150 you can help. Will you believe the bibles were to God? Do you 502 00:36:23.230 --> 00:36:25.869 know what the Bible says? And some one hundred and thirty nine versus thirteen 503 00:36:25.949 --> 00:36:30.710 and fourteen. Yeah, for you form my inward parts. Is God talking 504 00:36:30.750 --> 00:36:34.820 about just one person, as you talked about everybody, right. So it's 505 00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:37.820 helpful. Yeah, when they say they don't believe in God, like she 506 00:36:37.940 --> 00:36:39.340 did, and you, you didn't just leave it there. I think that's 507 00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:43.739 really important. You ask, do you believe in God? She said not 508 00:36:44.099 --> 00:36:46.889 really, but then she got into, and I think you got into what 509 00:36:47.130 --> 00:36:50.449 you believe in a higher powers? From like that, I think that was 510 00:36:50.489 --> 00:36:52.650 your follow up question. She's like Kinda, yeah, yes, so, 511 00:36:52.889 --> 00:36:58.010 yeah, and that is I think for all of you who are in a 512 00:36:58.170 --> 00:37:00.289 city or a place where you're not in the Bible belt, to maybe you're 513 00:37:00.329 --> 00:37:05.800 going to have people more likely to say I'm spiritual but I don't believe in 514 00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:08.719 God. I do consider myself spiritual. To ask that question. Will so 515 00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:13.400 explain that you believe in a higher power. That happened just today. Yeah, 516 00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.599 it was. It was a woman who said no, I don't believe 517 00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:19.230 in God and I asked that follow up question. Will you do you believe 518 00:37:19.269 --> 00:37:22.909 in a higher power? And she did, and from there your you are 519 00:37:22.949 --> 00:37:28.829 able to enter bring God into the equation, using from there whatever their perspective 520 00:37:28.869 --> 00:37:32.019 is and bring it to a more truthful perspective of God. But also this 521 00:37:32.260 --> 00:37:36.619 is if I have someone that says right out I don't believe in God, 522 00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:40.780 I am probably I'm not, never gonna not mention God, but I am 523 00:37:40.940 --> 00:37:45.889 going to go into more of the scientific facts and some of the things of 524 00:37:45.969 --> 00:37:51.010 human development to help them to perceive the humanity of that baby. Yeah, 525 00:37:51.170 --> 00:37:55.809 not solely from God's viewpoint, but from, I honestly, a secular viewpoint, 526 00:37:55.849 --> 00:38:00.760 a scientific viewpoint, just to dispel the thought that this is just a 527 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:05.679 blob of inhibit tissue exactly. Yeah, yeah, I think you did that. 528 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.000 Like I mentioned anything earlier, you did a very good job of weaving 529 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:12.760 in the humanity the baby, constantly talking about that baby, so a human 530 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:15.710 being, a child. Using those words is important. Yeah, springboard and 531 00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:20.070 off of that scientific fact, you know about light, that spark of light. 532 00:38:20.110 --> 00:38:25.190 Yeah, and what I think, though, was possibly for me well, 533 00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:30.380 to the most impactful things. The first thing was contrasting light with darkness. 534 00:38:30.420 --> 00:38:32.940 Yeah, as you talk about God and you talk about how Jesus is 535 00:38:34.420 --> 00:38:37.300 the light of the world. She even finished a statement that you started. 536 00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:40.219 You know, God said let there be light, which is actually a very 537 00:38:40.300 --> 00:38:45.050 common thing, even for people who say that they're atheist. Right. As 538 00:38:45.250 --> 00:38:49.130 you know, a society, so much of the word of God has been 539 00:38:49.170 --> 00:38:52.210 woven into our vernacular, into our language and things like that, like the 540 00:38:52.289 --> 00:38:54.050 phrase apple of my eye. That's a biblical phrase. You know, there's 541 00:38:54.050 --> 00:38:57.800 other phrases that we use, and so we know these things. You know, 542 00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:00.039 God said let there be light and she knew it. She finished it, 543 00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:02.159 Sprung Board off of that, talked about how Jesus is the light of 544 00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:06.960 the world, which I think was was really good. And then, as 545 00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:09.989 she had talked about in the very beginning how they told her how bad we 546 00:39:10.070 --> 00:39:15.829 were, you started talking about well, walking into that place, how do 547 00:39:15.869 --> 00:39:17.510 you feel? Do you feel like that's a place where there's light, you 548 00:39:17.590 --> 00:39:21.110 know, God us, the God of light, or is that a place 549 00:39:21.230 --> 00:39:24.900 of darkness? And you really contrast that, and I think making that contrast 550 00:39:25.380 --> 00:39:31.340 not a US against them contrast really, but it's really a contrast of who 551 00:39:32.340 --> 00:39:37.340 who in this scenario that's coming to you with a proposition. They're coming to 552 00:39:37.420 --> 00:39:39.889 you with the proposition of will kill your baby for money. Yeah, you're 553 00:39:40.010 --> 00:39:43.730 we're coming to you with a proposition of will help you for free. Who 554 00:39:43.730 --> 00:39:46.449 Do you think has your best interest in my really, and that's the question 555 00:39:46.530 --> 00:39:51.489 that you're asking. We we represent the Lord, and so it's not us, 556 00:39:51.809 --> 00:39:53.000 but it's the Lord. But who do you think has your best interests 557 00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:58.039 in mind? Yeah, and I even will sometimes talk about the money aspect. 558 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.239 They're going to charge you whatever it is, pend on how far along 559 00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:05.760 she is. In that scenario, probably seven or eight hundred dollars for an 560 00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:07.590 abortion. Right. She was ten weeks along, so maybe lesson that. 561 00:40:09.349 --> 00:40:14.789 And we're offering you things for free. Who you think, in this situation 562 00:40:14.989 --> 00:40:17.469 has your best interests in mine? We don't want anything from you. They 563 00:40:17.750 --> 00:40:21.269 they're going to take your money. They told you that. We're just a 564 00:40:21.309 --> 00:40:24.500 much angry protesters here. We are talking to you very, very, very 565 00:40:24.539 --> 00:40:30.179 kindly and offering you things. There isn't us of the against them kind of 566 00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:32.820 dynamic going on there. And who shakes out better? Who can you trust 567 00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:37.449 more? And it really is that issue of trust. You can also even 568 00:40:37.530 --> 00:40:42.090 use that if you have a big pro abortion presence. YEA, that is 569 00:40:42.210 --> 00:40:46.170 trying to drown you out and the women are really struggling to hear the choice 570 00:40:46.250 --> 00:40:52.199 for life. I will bring up that contrast that who is really offering you 571 00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:54.840 a choice? Do you hear US trying to drown out the choice for death? 572 00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:59.000 No, we can't. We can't even come up on to the property. 573 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.079 Yeah, but who? Why do you think they are trying to drown 574 00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:07.590 out the choice is of help and and life. If, if it's, 575 00:41:07.829 --> 00:41:10.949 if they're truly people of choice, wouldn't they want you to hear right that 576 00:41:12.070 --> 00:41:15.070 you really do have another choice? So I think it is it is good 577 00:41:15.190 --> 00:41:20.579 to bring the contrast, yeah, of truly what what they're facing out there. 578 00:41:20.579 --> 00:41:22.900 Yeah, so that was the first thing I thought was like really, 579 00:41:22.940 --> 00:41:29.059 really good, that contrast. And then the second your testimony. You shared 580 00:41:29.099 --> 00:41:31.619 your testimony, which really was similar to hers. Right, you were pregnant, 581 00:41:34.289 --> 00:41:37.210 not a believer in Jesus, right, right, you're an atheist and 582 00:41:37.369 --> 00:41:42.449 had an abortion. HMM, didn't regret it immediately, but did in the 583 00:41:42.530 --> 00:41:45.050 course of things. You did, and that's what brought you to the Lord, 584 00:41:45.289 --> 00:41:47.920 is having a child and realizing that. So you brought that dynamic in 585 00:41:49.239 --> 00:41:52.960 really your testimony to try to save her from that being her testimony, yeah, 586 00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:55.039 which I think was really good. Yeah, listen, guys, you 587 00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:59.119 have a testimony right some way, shape or form, whether it has to 588 00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:02.710 do with being pregnant outside of marriage or having had an abortion or not, 589 00:42:04.269 --> 00:42:06.670 none of that at all. You still have a testimony you can share. 590 00:42:06.670 --> 00:42:10.150 Yeah, and you can also bring other people's testimonies into equation as well. 591 00:42:10.389 --> 00:42:14.710 Sure, I have a friend that was pregnant in high school and here was 592 00:42:14.750 --> 00:42:17.219 her story and you can just talk about how God is good or you can 593 00:42:17.260 --> 00:42:22.340 talk about how things didn't go so good because you didn't trust the Lord's right. 594 00:42:22.420 --> 00:42:23.820 Shared a testimony. I think is important. Yeah, I want to 595 00:42:23.980 --> 00:42:29.460 mention something about that testimony too, because, remember, this is mock this 596 00:42:29.579 --> 00:42:35.289 is pretend I'm talking to someone who's my buddy. He's probably heard my testimony 597 00:42:35.409 --> 00:42:40.969 many, many times, and at that part of this mock session I almost 598 00:42:40.969 --> 00:42:45.599 started crying as I was sharing my testimony because the power of that testimony, 599 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:50.440 in the sorrow of it, it was just it's fresh every time I say 600 00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:54.360 it, honestly. But maddie also look stricken if you look at her face 601 00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:58.079 at that moment. Yeah, and she said all she wanted to do was 602 00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:02.070 hug me. So the reason I mentioned that is the power of your personal 603 00:43:02.230 --> 00:43:08.070 testimony. It should never be underestimated. If you have a storytell it. 604 00:43:08.230 --> 00:43:13.860 Maybe you it you walked a friend into an abortion. Maybe it's up some 605 00:43:14.260 --> 00:43:17.500 someone else you know, maybe your own parents something, but we all do 606 00:43:17.780 --> 00:43:22.860 probably have a story and we should we should share it. Yeah, absolutely. 607 00:43:22.780 --> 00:43:25.860 Well, kind of wrapping this thing up, the last thing I wanted 608 00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:29.690 to mention that I think was a good thing that you mentioned, that you 609 00:43:30.130 --> 00:43:36.650 said in this in this mock session, was just the reality that you're concerned 610 00:43:36.690 --> 00:43:39.809 that your baby might be affected by drug use or alcohol use, for smoking 611 00:43:39.849 --> 00:43:45.519 and all that stuff, and there's not a hundred percent certainty that that's that's 612 00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:47.639 the case. Right. There's no there's no guarantee. Now, could it 613 00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:51.360 affect your baby? I think you said this. It certainly could. Those 614 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.360 things are not good. And so you did, after you had built a 615 00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:58.110 relationship with her, right, kind of drop that. told her you shouldn't 616 00:43:58.150 --> 00:44:00.590 continue in those they can harm your baby. Yeah, but there's not a 617 00:44:00.630 --> 00:44:05.030 hundred percent certainty. Right. I don't know that you said this, but 618 00:44:05.110 --> 00:44:07.630 it is obviously implied. It's not a hundred percent certainty that that's going to 619 00:44:07.710 --> 00:44:12.539 harm your baby, but it is a hundred percent certainty that abortion is right. 620 00:44:12.940 --> 00:44:15.420 So let's just do the right thing. And then you led her. 621 00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:20.300 I mean the scenario here's you're in front of the the abortion center, right, 622 00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:23.059 she's headed right into the abortion center, and then to kind of really, 623 00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:27.250 I think, give a transition to this is just what did you come 624 00:44:27.289 --> 00:44:29.929 over here and talk with me. Let's just sit in the shade. So 625 00:44:30.409 --> 00:44:35.449 that could be doing that, sitting in the shade, getting in your vehicle, 626 00:44:35.570 --> 00:44:37.599 maybe. I don't know, depending on the scenario and our folks in 627 00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:40.800 New York, that might be the scenario. Spatial it was really cold. 628 00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:44.559 Hey, let's just sit and sit in my vehicle. Let's talk a little 629 00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:47.000 first, get them away from the side. will get them away from really 630 00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:52.869 the battle zone. Maybe taking them on board the MOBILETRA sound unit, if 631 00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:55.469 you have that, taking them to a pregnancy center, if you have that, 632 00:44:55.710 --> 00:44:58.750 you know whatever, but just getting them away from there, which I 633 00:44:58.789 --> 00:45:02.269 think was really good. And and so yeah, let's it. I think 634 00:45:02.309 --> 00:45:05.630 you did a great job. Well, thank you. But I did want 635 00:45:05.630 --> 00:45:09.179 to make a point about when, when I took her away, I didn't 636 00:45:09.260 --> 00:45:15.940 offer an ultrasound right, and instead I offered to share the Gospel. Okay, 637 00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:21.019 and again that was a conscious decision based on how the conversation had gone. 638 00:45:21.059 --> 00:45:24.530 I thought there had been so much talk about God that I just didn't 639 00:45:24.530 --> 00:45:29.690 want to wait on the sharing of the Gospel. But also in this scenario 640 00:45:29.690 --> 00:45:32.610 I was thinking, well, she refused to see the ultrasound before. Yeah, 641 00:45:32.929 --> 00:45:39.519 and so maybe what she needs now is a proper understanding of God and 642 00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:44.440 then offer an ultrasound. That was my thinking. That may or may not 643 00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.679 have been the best decision. May It. Most of the time we say 644 00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:52.789 get them on an ultrasround if you can get them to. So that that 645 00:45:52.949 --> 00:45:57.909 may have been a not such a good decision. And I also want to 646 00:45:57.949 --> 00:46:02.269 say that we have a follow up podcast in video that we're planning to do 647 00:46:02.710 --> 00:46:07.900 of really part two, okay, of this. Yeah, where she I 648 00:46:07.059 --> 00:46:10.619 do talk show how I shared the Gospel. But I wanted to mention that 649 00:46:10.780 --> 00:46:15.460 now because really, throughout this discussion with her, because I knew she didn't 650 00:46:15.460 --> 00:46:22.250 know the Lord, I was purposefully trying to share God, yeah, and 651 00:46:22.809 --> 00:46:25.849 prepare the way for May being able to share the Gospel later on. Yeah, 652 00:46:27.010 --> 00:46:30.289 yeah, that's good. We'll guess stay tuned for the follow up on 653 00:46:30.409 --> 00:46:36.920 that and you'll be blessed by Hopefuy. Hopefully you were blessed by this and 654 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:40.320 learned something, and so we would love for you to reach out maybe give 655 00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:45.920 us some suggestions on I mean, how are we doing on these mock sessions? 656 00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:49.949 We talked about whether or not we just play it, let you listen 657 00:46:49.989 --> 00:46:52.550 to it, or we play it. It will let you listen to it 658 00:46:52.670 --> 00:46:57.429 then critique it afterwards, like we have been doing, or maybe we critique 659 00:46:57.429 --> 00:47:00.269 it as we go along. I'm not sure. Maybe we just play it 660 00:47:00.349 --> 00:47:01.820 and keep our mouth shut and don't even critique it at all. I don't 661 00:47:01.820 --> 00:47:05.659 know, but we'd certainly love to hear from you. Want to equip you. 662 00:47:06.139 --> 00:47:07.420 Want to equip you in the most effective way, Paul, possible. 663 00:47:07.460 --> 00:47:09.860 So let us know. Let us know if we can improve on this any. 664 00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:14.219 Let us know if there's some things that we can do, episodes on 665 00:47:14.420 --> 00:47:17.730 some as subjects or maybe even mock sessions that we can do about particular scenarios. 666 00:47:17.769 --> 00:47:22.849 Are Certainly all kinds of scenarios you encounter an abortion center. But the 667 00:47:22.929 --> 00:47:25.170 hope is that you guys will be encouraged and equipped, and we hope that 668 00:47:25.250 --> 00:47:29.969 you were. Please again, share this podcast episode, share the podcast in 669 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:32.559 general with other people. Let him know what we're doing and how they can 670 00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:37.119 get on board and they can get trained and all that stuff. We certainly 671 00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:38.440 love for you guys to reach out. You can go and love life dot 672 00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:42.719 org find out more in information about love life. You can reach out to 673 00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.829 me, Daniel Love Life Dot Org. You reach out to her Vicky at 674 00:47:45.909 --> 00:47:49.949 Love Life Dot Org, and until next time, God, bless God, 675 00:47:49.989 --> 00:48:07.260 bless o love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. I know 676 00:48:07.619 --> 00:48:15.610 it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious, and some that you