Ministering to An Agnostic - Mock Session

WEBVTT100:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me,200:00:06.160 --> 00:00:11.349Lord, I am yours, Iam yours. I'm welcome to the300:00:11.429 --> 00:00:17.309Gospel Center pre life podcast, apodcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge400:00:17.350 --> 00:00:21.350you in pro life ministry and alwayswere the focus on the Gospel. Stay500:00:21.429 --> 00:00:36.969tuned. I felt show passish touchyour welcome to the Gospel Center pro life600:00:37.009 --> 00:00:41.210podcast. We appreciate you guys tuningin and listening and, as always,700:00:41.210 --> 00:00:46.369we'd appreciate if you guys would sharethis podcast. We are in this episode,800:00:46.929 --> 00:00:50.240going to do something we've done ina couple of episodes previously and something900:00:50.280 --> 00:00:54.560that we've actually had quite a fewfolks request of us, and that's to1000:00:54.679 --> 00:00:58.159do a mock session. So again, as we've done in the past,1100:00:58.200 --> 00:01:03.799Vicky recorded her counseling Maddie, who'sone of our local vaunteers who should be1200:01:03.239 --> 00:01:07.349a paid act actress. She Shits, she is so good. Yeah,1300:01:07.510 --> 00:01:11.510she's Great. So and then Ithink we have a few coming up in1400:01:11.590 --> 00:01:15.430the next couple of weeks that wererecorded from some of our other counselors right1500:01:15.469 --> 00:01:17.870now. That will be good.Yeah, but we wanted to do this1600:01:18.109 --> 00:01:22.180one just to do what we've donein the past again play that. So1700:01:22.260 --> 00:01:23.980we're going to play the audio foryou guys, and then we're going to1800:01:25.019 --> 00:01:27.340come back and kind of critique ita little bit say some of the things,1900:01:27.379 --> 00:01:30.900things that actually the points that weretouched one that you need to be2000:01:30.980 --> 00:01:34.049touched on maybe some of the thingsthat were not touched one. Do want2100:01:34.090 --> 00:01:38.969to say that in all of thesewe're just kind of laying out as far2200:01:38.969 --> 00:01:42.250as for Maddie and Vicky, you'rejust kind of laying out what the scenario2300:01:42.409 --> 00:01:45.129is, but there's not like it'snot like a scripted or anything. Rights2400:01:45.329 --> 00:01:48.280and going off as well. We'redoing that so that it will, as2500:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.760closely as possible, mimic a realsituation, because you don't know what you're2600:01:51.760 --> 00:01:53.680going to face when when you starttalking to a woman, a woman.2700:01:55.239 --> 00:01:57.200So I purposely didn't want to knowwhat Maddie was going to say. She2800:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.599had no idea what I was goingto say. We just laid out the2900:02:00.840 --> 00:02:06.989general concept and scenario. Yeah,which is good. It is real to3000:02:07.510 --> 00:02:09.789life as possible, right, Iguess. And, like I said,3100:02:09.830 --> 00:02:14.870Maddie's really good. It's she's obviouslytalked to many women at abortion centers and3200:02:15.270 --> 00:02:19.020riot conversations. Yeah, because sheknows what to say in these situations.3300:02:19.219 --> 00:02:23.139This is very realistic, by theway. This is Maddie being an agnostic3400:02:23.219 --> 00:02:30.810at best, maybe atheist, motherwith a child who she's concerned is going3500:02:30.849 --> 00:02:34.370to die or be disabled because someof the choices she has made, and3600:02:35.050 --> 00:02:39.810we do face that often. Yeah, and she really nailed a lot of3700:02:40.289 --> 00:02:46.039the discussion that we would get aspushback from those moms when we interact with3800:02:46.199 --> 00:02:49.400them. Yeah, yeah, soyou guys, we're going to go ahead3900:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.000and play this for you again.Lay out the scenario real quick before we4000:02:53.080 --> 00:02:58.669play it. Okay, so sheshe's approached me, so she's walking towards4100:02:58.789 --> 00:03:04.270the counselor. She is a youngwoman who this is her first pregnancy her,4200:03:04.789 --> 00:03:09.069she has not engaged in healthy lifestyleand knows it and is concerned that4300:03:09.150 --> 00:03:15.900the child might be born with adisability or or could even die, and4400:03:16.979 --> 00:03:23.300she doesn't believe in God. Soshe doesn't have that restraint on her at4500:03:23.340 --> 00:03:28.530all. Yeah, and that's basicallyall that we gave her. Okay,4600:03:28.650 --> 00:03:32.169I said you go from there andI will do my best to counsel you.4700:03:32.530 --> 00:03:37.250Okay, cool. Well, that'sthe scenario, guess. So listen4800:03:37.289 --> 00:03:40.169up and then stay with us andwe'll come back at the end and talk4900:03:40.210 --> 00:03:46.280a little bit about this there.Okay, oh, young lady, I5000:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.800know you may not want to talkwith me, but I'm just offering you5100:03:50.000 --> 00:03:54.360some help. This is information andhope and help, and on the back5200:03:54.599 --> 00:04:00.710is is my name and my numberand we would we would love to talk5300:04:00.789 --> 00:04:04.389with you about what brings you tothis place. And I know you know5400:04:04.469 --> 00:04:09.789obviously there's something going on. Iknow that all they do here is abortions.5500:04:09.949 --> 00:04:15.099So I know women don't come here, you know, just for normal5600:04:15.580 --> 00:04:20.699health care. So what's going on? Do you mind telling me? I5700:04:20.860 --> 00:04:25.009don't know. I've heard a lotabout you guys. I don't know.5800:04:25.209 --> 00:04:28.850Are you yeah, they do.When you called, like they they told5900:04:28.850 --> 00:04:30.689you. Yeah, they they don'tlike us offering the choice for life.6000:04:30.689 --> 00:04:35.290I'll be very honest. We arehere because we know that that baby is6100:04:35.329 --> 00:04:41.519a little human being, precious toGod, created by God. And if6200:04:41.600 --> 00:04:44.720you've missed your period, which youwouldn't be here probably, unless she had6300:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.040right then that baby already has abeating heart. That baby is a person,6400:04:48.240 --> 00:04:53.949a little person, but a vulnerablehuman being. Loved and created by6500:04:54.029 --> 00:04:57.949God. So we come offering help. We have so many resources really,6600:04:58.069 --> 00:05:00.790no matter what you face. Sowe just want to hear your story and6700:05:01.310 --> 00:05:05.509offer help. And I know they'veprobably told you that we lie and that6800:05:06.110 --> 00:05:09.779you know, but information never hurts. I'm telling you, you don't lie.6900:05:09.779 --> 00:05:15.019Everything that we offer we follow throughon, but just the information has7000:05:15.139 --> 00:05:20.970just so much, you know,knowledge and information that can help you and7100:05:21.769 --> 00:05:26.810there's never reason not to know allthe facts before you do something, as7200:05:27.370 --> 00:05:31.170you know, Vinal, as astaking your child's life. Right. Yeah,7300:05:31.250 --> 00:05:36.360so basically I guess what's going on, I drink and smoke and I7400:05:36.959 --> 00:05:42.240I kind of felt like I mightbe pregnant, but I didn't really think7500:05:42.279 --> 00:05:45.639I was. Okay, and thenwhen I found out I was like ten7600:05:45.720 --> 00:05:47.879weeks along. So wow, thisbaby's going to be so messed up and7700:05:47.959 --> 00:05:53.350I don't want to bring a disabledbaby into the world. All I've done.7800:05:53.870 --> 00:05:57.589Have you? Have you been toa doctor? Yeah, at this7900:05:57.709 --> 00:06:00.629point, okay, have and youknow you're pregnant. Did you? Did8000:06:00.750 --> 00:06:02.589you do an ultrasound? He orshe do an ultra sound or anything like8100:06:02.670 --> 00:06:06.339that? So you saw the baby? Well, I didn't want to.8200:06:06.740 --> 00:06:11.339I just did that dodger look atthe baby where they able? They said8300:06:11.459 --> 00:06:14.500the babies alive, has a beatingheart. Did they tell you any of8400:06:14.579 --> 00:06:18.810that? Yeah, okay. So, so you saw the baby. Your8500:06:18.889 --> 00:06:26.610big concern is that you've been smokingand drinking. I are you still or8600:06:26.730 --> 00:06:30.129did you stop when you found outyou were pregnant? I mean, yeah,8700:06:30.209 --> 00:06:32.759I did stop, okay, butwhy? What made you stop?8800:06:34.680 --> 00:06:38.279I just didn't know what would happen, I guess. And okay, so8900:06:38.399 --> 00:06:40.879there was, at least for amoment, in your heart, was this9000:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.160concern you knew you were carrying achild, another human being, and did9100:06:46.199 --> 00:06:50.029you feel some sort of responsibility towardsthat person? Yeah, I guess I've9200:06:50.389 --> 00:06:56.790heard that in in your concern thatthis is a your baby. It is9300:06:56.870 --> 00:07:00.740your baby, I mean it's inyour womb right and and the doctors at9400:07:00.740 --> 00:07:03.980least saw it and I assume theyhave told you that the baby is alive.9500:07:05.459 --> 00:07:12.259But there's this concern that maybe you'veharmed that person and you know what9600:07:12.540 --> 00:07:16.610that's like. That's how we shouldfeel, I mean that is the normal9700:07:16.730 --> 00:07:24.810maternal instinct, that we should careabout that child and desire to nurture and9800:07:24.850 --> 00:07:27.930protect it. I mean that that'swhat the womb is designed for. Do9900:07:28.009 --> 00:07:30.199you believe in God? No,no, okay, not at all.10000:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.600Do you believe in a higher power? Yeah, there's I believe there's like10100:07:34.680 --> 00:07:39.800a higher power somewhere, but Idon't know about okay, called this.10200:07:40.040 --> 00:07:43.800Okay. So there is a creator, then that maybe said all this in10300:07:43.959 --> 00:07:49.990motion, something creator. So youwere created, right. Do you believe10400:07:50.069 --> 00:07:53.589that that you were created, thatthere was a God that created you?10500:07:53.709 --> 00:07:58.230May Be Right. There may bean and and that baby maybe was created10600:07:58.350 --> 00:08:05.060by by that same higher power.And the womb is the one organ in10700:08:07.699 --> 00:08:11.970the human body, male or female, that was not designed for us.10800:08:13.689 --> 00:08:16.490Not at all. There's no nopurpose in the womb for you, for10900:08:16.610 --> 00:08:24.370your survival. The womb is specificallydesigned for one purpose, for another human11000:08:24.449 --> 00:08:28.879being. Another human being should doyou agree that that is another human being11100:08:28.399 --> 00:08:33.799that's in your womb? I Iyeah, I think I do. Okay,11200:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.399or maybe you have some doubts,for let me tell you that every11300:08:37.480 --> 00:08:43.269medical textbook says that human development beginsat the moment of conception. Here's a11400:08:43.509 --> 00:08:48.990really cool little fact. Did youknow when the sperm meets the egg in11500:08:48.110 --> 00:08:54.870the darkness of the womb there isa flash of light. Wow, isn't11600:08:54.870 --> 00:08:58.100that a sen and and a youknow, if you know your Bible at11700:08:58.139 --> 00:09:03.220all, God creates, you know, the heavens and the earth and and11800:09:03.379 --> 00:09:07.259then he says let there be light, light. Yet another much if we11900:09:07.340 --> 00:09:13.690ever mentioned do you know? Doyou know? Jesus is called what you12000:09:13.809 --> 00:09:16.809probably don't know, if you don'tknow God, he's called the light of12100:09:16.929 --> 00:09:22.450the world, the light of theworld. And isn't it fascinating that at12200:09:22.490 --> 00:09:26.440that moment of conception there is aspark of light? They've seen it.12300:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.720There's photographs of that. You canlook this up for yourself. And it's12400:09:30.840 --> 00:09:37.639dark in the world. There's soit's to me this speaks so clearly of12500:09:37.799 --> 00:09:43.269the truth of who God is.God is a God of light and he12600:09:43.549 --> 00:09:50.509dispels the darkness and when he enters, which is at the moment of conception,12700:09:50.789 --> 00:09:54.700he knows us, He created us, he loves us, he is12800:09:54.940 --> 00:09:58.620light. He is light in thedarkness. Now this place here, I12900:10:00.179 --> 00:10:03.460saw you kind of walking a littlebit slowly, little bit of hesitancy.13000:10:05.019 --> 00:10:09.330You feel this desire as a motherto protect that child and that's part of13100:10:09.409 --> 00:10:13.529your reason why you want to takethat child's life. So, as you're13200:10:13.570 --> 00:10:20.289walking here, would you say that'sa place of goodness and light and hope?13300:10:22.200 --> 00:10:28.279Would you characterize it as a placeof darkness and loss of hope and13400:10:28.759 --> 00:10:37.470fear and despair? Maybe it feelsto me like darkness or despair because of13500:10:37.549 --> 00:10:41.029my situation, but I feel likethey're really just trying to help people and13600:10:41.110 --> 00:10:43.789I feel like they're trying to providea way out. Yeah, well,13700:10:43.990 --> 00:10:50.220they're trying to help people who areintent on taking their child's life. Now,13800:10:50.259 --> 00:10:56.179I understand that your issue is thatyou're afraid that your child might be13900:10:56.379 --> 00:11:01.860born with a disability. If,first of all, if God is true,14000:11:03.580 --> 00:11:07.370if Jesus is real, and Iknow you're not quite sure about that,14100:11:07.289 --> 00:11:13.450then and he's the Creator and thechild is created already with the plan14200:11:13.570 --> 00:11:18.639and a purpose, just as asas you were. But even if God14300:11:18.320 --> 00:11:24.679were not the one who created thatlittle baby, that little baby has all14400:11:24.720 --> 00:11:30.960the human DNA she will ever havefrom the moment of conception. And if14500:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.629you're ten to twelve weeks, alittle baby already has developed ovaries. And14600:11:33.750 --> 00:11:41.110do you know that already within thoseovaries are your future grandchildren? The eggs14700:11:41.190 --> 00:11:46.509in fact that the baby before they'reborn has more eggs than they lose eggs14800:11:46.549 --> 00:11:52.659as as they progressed through life afterbirth. So so is that kind of14900:11:52.740 --> 00:12:01.169a miraculous design, that that you, your baby, your grandchildren, all15000:12:01.289 --> 00:12:07.330of you really are facing a decisionright now. The decision you make today15100:12:07.409 --> 00:12:11.809on whether that baby might be bornwith the disability is going to affect you,15200:12:13.850 --> 00:12:16.720and I can tell you that,as opposed to bortive woman, I15300:12:16.919 --> 00:12:20.240know I didn't know the Lord whenI had the abortions. I was like15400:12:20.360 --> 00:12:22.440you. I didn't know God.I thought maybe there was a creator.15500:12:22.559 --> 00:12:28.080Wasn't even sure about that, andI didn't think twice about that abortion.15600:12:28.679 --> 00:12:31.590But I will tell you, whenI had the first child that I wanted,15700:12:33.870 --> 00:12:37.990my life changed and the first thingI thought about said baby that I15800:12:39.029 --> 00:12:43.669killed, and that's when I fellon my knees before God. and honestly,15900:12:43.830 --> 00:12:48.500not a day goes by that Idon't remember that decision with despair and16000:12:48.700 --> 00:12:52.620wish that I could take it back, but of course I can't. But16100:12:52.740 --> 00:12:56.340that's why I'm here, because there'sno certainty at all that your baby's been16200:12:56.419 --> 00:12:58.649harmed. Non Now, can youharm your baby by what you do,16300:12:58.809 --> 00:13:03.450yes, but amazingly and beautifully andagain another proof, in my opinion,16400:13:03.490 --> 00:13:09.809of God's perfect design is that inthat first trimester that baby is so protected16500:13:09.169 --> 00:13:13.600and before the Placenta and the thewell not sent up at the Umbilical Court.16600:13:13.720 --> 00:13:20.200Is passing in blood between you andand the and the baby. Your16700:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.360things inside of your system are notbeing passed on to that child. So16800:13:24.440 --> 00:13:28.230your baby could be fine. Inthe really the best majority of cases,16900:13:28.350 --> 00:13:33.350the baby is. I would recommendeyou continue not to drink and not to17000:13:35.110 --> 00:13:39.070to smoke, and we have allkinds of programs that we can connect to17100:13:39.230 --> 00:13:43.100it. But we also have resourcesthat connect that can that we can connect17200:13:43.100 --> 00:13:46.700to with that will help you nomatter what you pays, including a mentor17300:13:46.820 --> 00:13:52.059that will walk alongside you and encourageyou through this process. But I think17400:13:52.100 --> 00:13:56.009the very first step right now isjust would you be willing to sit down17500:13:56.049 --> 00:14:00.409and let me share, from kindof beginning to end, the truth of17600:14:00.490 --> 00:14:05.049who God is and why he lovesyou and why he loves that trial.17700:14:05.529 --> 00:14:09.769I'm willing to listen. Okay,okay, come on, maybe, come17800:14:09.809 --> 00:14:15.559on over here. That's going theshade and we can't. Okay, well,17900:14:15.600 --> 00:14:16.879we hope that was a blessing toyou, guess, and that you18000:14:16.960 --> 00:14:22.279learned something. If nothing else,you learned what not to say from our18100:14:22.279 --> 00:14:26.190friend Vickie. I'm just kidding.It's kidding, Wickis for fun, but18200:14:26.230 --> 00:14:30.629let's give into it. There wereparts of it that were very inspired.18300:14:30.990 --> 00:14:35.789Okay, cool, inspired, Ihope, by the Holy Spirit. Okay,18400:14:35.870 --> 00:14:41.340we'll find out as we as wecritique this thing. Yeah, one18500:14:41.379 --> 00:14:43.220of the first things I want tomention, of course, she's walking up18600:14:43.539 --> 00:14:48.620and you greet her and right awayyou get the litteratuender their hands. So18700:14:48.860 --> 00:14:50.539that's important, although she did brushme off. I didn't know if you18800:14:50.620 --> 00:14:54.649saw that. Initially she was tryingto just get away. She really didn't18900:14:54.649 --> 00:14:58.409want me to approach. That isobviously a very common sure occurrence. So19000:15:00.250 --> 00:15:05.850we do our best to persist gentlyand kindly. Right, yeah, gentle19100:15:05.049 --> 00:15:13.600persistence, maybe holy ghost inspired annoyance. I don't know. We'd had.19200:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.440We've had one young lady in particular, I think has happened before, to19300:15:18.519 --> 00:15:22.590where they've gone in and out ofthe abortion center several times and we keep19400:15:22.629 --> 00:15:24.990on calling out to them and theysaid it's because of our persistence that they19500:15:24.990 --> 00:15:28.629finally came over and talk to us. So, yeah, that's a little19600:15:28.629 --> 00:15:31.750encouragement for you guys. Be Persistentand don't forget this is a life and19700:15:31.870 --> 00:15:35.299death situation, right, so ifwe bother them a little bit, if19800:15:35.340 --> 00:15:39.299we get on their nerves a littlebit, we're not harassing them, but19900:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.820we're dealing with the murder of achild. You trying to save them from20000:15:43.820 --> 00:15:48.299the horror that comes to them becauseof abortion, but also save their baby.20100:15:48.419 --> 00:15:50.370So right, that's a sad note. Yeah, one of the things20200:15:50.450 --> 00:15:54.210it really stuck out to me inthis, which is true, it does20300:15:54.330 --> 00:15:58.970happen from time to time, actuallykind of often, is maddie mentioned.20400:15:58.409 --> 00:16:02.529I've heard a lot about you guys. Oh yes, yeah, and I20500:16:02.690 --> 00:16:07.519really, I really wanted tonight again. I guess I could use feedback on20600:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.600whether what I did say and dowas appropriate, but I wanted to hit20700:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.480that head on and just say,yes, they say we lie, they20800:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.509say that we're not nice, whatever, and to counter that and say that20900:16:19.710 --> 00:16:22.909it's not true. What they sayabout is is not true. Right,21000:16:22.950 --> 00:16:29.509yeah, I think just drilling intothat is important. Acknowledging it. Oh,21100:16:29.549 --> 00:16:32.190yes, they told you that we're, you know, crazy, angry21200:16:32.230 --> 00:16:36.299protesters, right, the question thatI'll ask often times when I hear that.21300:16:36.340 --> 00:16:37.659Also, they told you when youwere coming, to watch out for21400:16:37.659 --> 00:16:41.539us because we're angry protesters. DoI look like an angry protester? Yeah,21500:16:41.620 --> 00:16:45.659yeah, and that kind of givesme the ability to springboard off of21600:16:45.740 --> 00:16:48.690that to because what I want todo is I want to transfer the trust21700:16:48.970 --> 00:16:52.769that they have in the abortion centerto me and ultimately to the Lord.21800:16:52.769 --> 00:16:56.250And so I contrast. They toldyou this, but here's what you're seeing.21900:16:56.289 --> 00:17:00.529Right. Can you really believe everythingelse they told you? Right,22000:17:00.009 --> 00:17:03.400don't get doubt. Good. Theyalso told you that they're here to help22100:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.480women. They also told you thatyour baby's a blob of tissue or product22200:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.839of conception or whatever. Right,and so maybe that's stuff. Yes,22300:17:10.880 --> 00:17:15.950up for question to write. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so22400:17:15.069 --> 00:17:18.950that was an important thing, Ithink, to dispel the lies that they've22500:17:18.950 --> 00:17:22.109been told, to not shy awayfrom that or just ignore that, but22600:17:22.190 --> 00:17:26.190to acknowledge, and I think youdid acknowledge that there was a little bit22700:17:26.269 --> 00:17:32.460of of well, I think towardthe end a little bit of hesitency as22800:17:32.539 --> 00:17:33.900she was walking to the clinic,and sometimes you can pick up on that.22900:17:33.980 --> 00:17:37.059So maybe we'll talk about that towardthe end, because that's when you23000:17:37.180 --> 00:17:41.059takes us a little bit later,later on there. But but yeah,23100:17:41.059 --> 00:17:45.650but one of the immediate things thatI did and that I think we all23200:17:45.730 --> 00:17:51.250should do, we should all rememberthat. However long that session last,23300:17:51.970 --> 00:17:55.529we don't know. Yeah, wedon't know. And so it's important to23400:17:55.650 --> 00:18:00.359get important facts out there fast,the important things that you want to say23500:18:00.519 --> 00:18:03.839out there fast. Sure. Soright away what I tried to do is23600:18:03.920 --> 00:18:08.160introduce the idea of the value ofthat child right to God, yeah,23700:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.559the development of the baby. Yeah, and that's something that us all throughout23800:18:11.599 --> 00:18:17.109this entire counseling session is you weavingin the humanity of the baby, really23900:18:17.190 --> 00:18:21.750talking about that, really making thatbaby a person. That baby is a24000:18:21.829 --> 00:18:25.990person, but helping to make thatbaby a person to that mother. Yeah,24100:18:25.990 --> 00:18:27.500I think you do that really well. Yeah. Well, thank you,24200:18:27.940 --> 00:18:36.900especially, I think, because shegave really good openings, and they24300:18:36.940 --> 00:18:40.779always do. There will always beopenings if you pray for the Holy Spirit24400:18:41.099 --> 00:18:44.210that you can like stick your footin that door that they have just opened.24500:18:44.569 --> 00:18:48.650When she talked about that, shewas drinking and smoking and she was24600:18:48.809 --> 00:18:55.049concerned about the that the child wouldbe disabled. Yeah, and then I24700:18:55.210 --> 00:19:00.519asked, are you still and shesaid no, and using that to springboard24800:19:00.680 --> 00:19:06.200into the idea of well, thatshows a level of care and concern for24900:19:06.559 --> 00:19:10.750for that baby, and so shegave me that. That was a gift25000:19:10.910 --> 00:19:14.150that she probably wasn't really thinking aboutus as she offered that, but that25100:19:14.309 --> 00:19:18.190was a gift to then really talkabout. That's what is a normal maternal25200:19:18.269 --> 00:19:22.670response and that's what what you shouldfeel. Yeah, absolutely, the desire25300:19:22.750 --> 00:19:29.259to protect that child. So so, yeah, that another thing, another25400:19:29.380 --> 00:19:36.740counseling, I guess concept to rememberis you're going to hear terrible things.25500:19:36.940 --> 00:19:41.730You're going to hear things from themom's what they have done in in knowing25600:19:41.809 --> 00:19:45.529that they're pregnant. That will curlyour toes. Oh yeah, I mean25700:19:45.849 --> 00:19:49.609a mom saying this, this womansaying that I've been drinking and smoking and25800:19:51.009 --> 00:19:55.880you have to be so careful notto express horror. Oh Yeah, because25900:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.960that will shut that conversation down ifshe feels condemned. I was in a26000:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.759real situation, I would be horrified. I would know, especially alcohol,26100:20:04.200 --> 00:20:10.950that actually can be very devastating forall. Alcohol Syndrome can be very devastating26200:20:11.470 --> 00:20:17.109and I think that that damage fromthat can occur even in the first towards26300:20:17.150 --> 00:20:22.660the end of the first trimester.So that is a dangerous thing, yeah,26400:20:22.700 --> 00:20:25.180for a mom to still be doing. Yeah, and it is a26500:20:25.180 --> 00:20:27.180terrible thing for mom to do toher baby. Right. Yeah, but26600:20:27.420 --> 00:20:32.819in that that scenario, just youdrinking and smoking. What's what's wrong with26700:20:32.980 --> 00:20:36.569you? Yeah, exactly. That'swhat you should say. Is that a26800:20:36.609 --> 00:20:40.970horrible thing to do? Yes,it is. Yeah, but abortions even26900:20:41.250 --> 00:20:44.089more of a horrible thing because inthat situation, could it affect the baby?27000:20:44.289 --> 00:20:47.569It certainly could. Yeah, butin an abortion, could it affect27100:20:47.609 --> 00:20:49.400the baby? Well, it's certainlygoing to. That's right now, no27200:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.559doubt about it. So you wantto make sure that the way you come27300:20:52.599 --> 00:20:59.440across is one of not accepting ofher behavior, but also you don't want27400:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.759to shut the conversation down right away, and I do think it's appropriate to27500:21:02.880 --> 00:21:06.630mention in the course of the conversation. I don't think it's appropriate to mention27600:21:06.710 --> 00:21:08.269like right away. Don't you knowthat can hurt your baby? Right.27700:21:08.390 --> 00:21:11.509I think it is important as you'rebuilding a relationship with her, because that's27800:21:11.509 --> 00:21:15.789what you're doing in any conversation likethis that you're having a one on one27900:21:15.829 --> 00:21:19.619conversation, your relationship building, you'retrying to build a relationship, you're trying28000:21:19.700 --> 00:21:23.299to build trust. Once you,in the course of the conversation, got28100:21:23.380 --> 00:21:27.059her trust, that's when you canmention those sort of things. Like when28200:21:27.099 --> 00:21:30.819I'm talking to men, I willtalk about fornication, I will talk about28300:21:30.819 --> 00:21:34.450sex outside of marriage. Probably nottalking about it on the front end,28400:21:34.529 --> 00:21:37.049though, so much, yeah,as when I build a little bit of28500:21:37.130 --> 00:21:41.970relationship with them, I mentioned tothem about sex outside of merit, because28600:21:41.970 --> 00:21:45.170I don't want to shut the conversationdown immediately, and so I think you28700:21:45.289 --> 00:21:48.839did an excellent job in that.One of the things Maddie said basically was28800:21:49.359 --> 00:21:52.680what she said, I think,word for word. This baby is going28900:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.519to be so messed up. Sometimesthe yeah, and you have to ask29000:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.039yourself, okay, where did sheget that idea? Right, yeah,29100:22:00.200 --> 00:22:04.269because if I'm hearing that, I'mthinking, well, of course we know29200:22:04.430 --> 00:22:08.549that a right. Yeah, butmy guess is going to be that she's29300:22:08.589 --> 00:22:15.630got some friends that have been speakinginto her situation and being giving her reasons29400:22:15.259 --> 00:22:18.339that it's okay to have an abortion. Yeah, do you know what I'm29500:22:18.339 --> 00:22:22.180saying that's what we do when weknow something is wrong. And Listen,29600:22:22.460 --> 00:22:25.859people know, women know that abortionis wrong. We look for, we29700:22:26.339 --> 00:22:30.890grasp for reasons to make it justifiable. And that's her reason. And so29800:22:30.970 --> 00:22:33.250when you're talking to these MOMS,you talking to these DADS, look for29900:22:33.369 --> 00:22:37.490that, because that's that's the thingthat basically I go for when I ask30000:22:37.569 --> 00:22:40.650the question if we could take careof one thing going on in your life,30100:22:40.690 --> 00:22:41.569with that one thing, be yeah, or's. You know, I30200:22:41.569 --> 00:22:45.519might frame it a little differently.Yeah, but really what you're looking for30300:22:45.720 --> 00:22:51.279is that thing that gives them thejustification that they need to kill their child30400:22:51.880 --> 00:22:55.519and to make it a good decision. Yeah, and the way you're going30500:22:55.640 --> 00:23:00.829to hear that, it is notalways immediately offered, but the way you're30600:23:00.829 --> 00:23:04.630going to finally truly get at theroot of a matter is ask questions.30700:23:04.750 --> 00:23:10.869Keep asking questions. I learned thaton a counseling session I had just this30800:23:11.069 --> 00:23:14.900weekend where it was a long,long session and it was until a half30900:23:14.940 --> 00:23:21.099an hour into talking to this momthat I truly understood why she really was31000:23:21.299 --> 00:23:26.180there, what the issue was,and I didn't know. So I just31100:23:26.380 --> 00:23:30.250asked the Holy Spirit to guide me. I didn't know what to say,31200:23:30.369 --> 00:23:33.890I didn't know how to enter intolike a gospel discussion, or even really31300:23:33.049 --> 00:23:37.849but to offer her. So Ijust kept asking questions. And if you31400:23:38.009 --> 00:23:44.640keep asking questions, eventually they're goingto say something that is going to help31500:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.160you, yeah, to to SpringBoard into whatever it is that you should31600:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.000be talking to them about now.Now, I did notice something that I31700:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.589would critique you on, okay,and it's something that I think happens in31800:23:56.670 --> 00:23:59.549every conversation. Yes, so it'snot so much a critique for you,31900:23:59.710 --> 00:24:02.470it's a critique, critique for allof us, Uh Huh. But when32000:24:02.470 --> 00:24:04.910you're having these conversations, you're passionate, you're trying to get information there.32100:24:06.150 --> 00:24:10.259You you don't want to lose themand you don't want to leave so much32200:24:10.299 --> 00:24:12.460space for them just to babble.Sometimes you can interrupt them, and I32300:24:12.579 --> 00:24:15.220know this. At one point rightshe was going to finish a statement but32400:24:15.339 --> 00:24:19.619you interrupted and came on in there. And again, that's not just a32500:24:19.700 --> 00:24:22.940critique for you as a critique forall of us, just something we do32600:24:22.019 --> 00:24:26.569because we're trying to continue in atrain of thought. But I do think32700:24:26.730 --> 00:24:33.730to me a a gallon of listeningis worth a pint of talking, and32800:24:33.890 --> 00:24:37.690so if we can listen, aslong as we're not losing them, if32900:24:37.769 --> 00:24:41.240we can listen, it gives usa lot more fuel to continue the conversation33000:24:41.799 --> 00:24:45.920and also it lets them know thatwe're they're not just to deliver information,33100:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.599but to build a relationship with them. Yeah, yeah, that's a really33200:24:49.759 --> 00:24:56.349good point and that's actually something thatI struggle with period. I want to33300:24:56.430 --> 00:25:00.069get my thoughts out. Yeah,and so I interrupt a lot. I33400:25:00.309 --> 00:25:02.309know I do that. I probablydo it to you all the time.33500:25:02.430 --> 00:25:04.589Yeah, you do. Yeah,sorry about that, but let me give33600:25:04.589 --> 00:25:07.700you a counterpoint. I agree withyou. By the way, in this33700:25:07.819 --> 00:25:11.460counseling session, you're absolutely correct.And and this was a mom that was33800:25:11.740 --> 00:25:15.180hearing me, she wasn't trying toshut me up or anything. If you33900:25:15.460 --> 00:25:22.089have a mom like one I hadtoday that was talking about this just kind34000:25:22.130 --> 00:25:30.049of really off the wall spiritual beliefs, yeah, and getting into reasons why34100:25:30.970 --> 00:25:36.440she should be able to abort becauseof these really off the wall spiritual beliefs,34200:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.400and I am we're walking back towardsthe abortion center, and I know34300:25:40.519 --> 00:25:44.440how I have limited time. Thatwas a purposeful interruption. I made a34400:25:44.640 --> 00:25:49.000purposeful interruption because I thought I'm runningout of time. She's just feeding further34500:25:49.269 --> 00:25:53.470into the rationalizations for why to abhortand I've got maybe three more minutes till34600:25:53.470 --> 00:25:59.950we get there. And I didpurposely stop her talking. Yeah, by34700:26:00.269 --> 00:26:06.539introducing what I thought were more truthful, realistic discussions about the value of that34800:26:06.619 --> 00:26:11.220child and value of God. Andin those situations when you interrupt, because34900:26:11.220 --> 00:26:15.220I know exactly what you're talking about. I mean I've had so many conversations35000:26:15.339 --> 00:26:18.380where I've had to just say hey, I get what you're saying, and35100:26:18.420 --> 00:26:19.730that's what I do when I interrupt. I don't just come in with my35200:26:19.849 --> 00:26:25.529statement, but I'm like this,I understand that and I'm hear what you're35300:26:25.529 --> 00:26:29.849saying. What can I just say? Yeah, and then I say what?35400:26:30.009 --> 00:26:33.400Yea What? And it's good inthe relation away building the relation,35500:26:33.519 --> 00:26:36.079because what you don't want to dois you don't want to shut shut the35600:26:36.119 --> 00:26:40.720conversation down, pretty surely, butyou also have to realize that the conversation35700:26:41.079 --> 00:26:44.839typically when you're standing in front ofthe abortion center or they're you know,35800:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.390they're walking into the abortion center,it's going to end at some point.35900:26:48.710 --> 00:26:51.750Right, it's now, once youget them away, kind of like you36000:26:51.869 --> 00:26:53.190did toward the end of this youlet's go sit down over here in the36100:26:53.230 --> 00:26:56.630shade, let's go in the Mobultrasound unit, let's get down the road36200:26:56.670 --> 00:27:00.109to a pregnancy center. Then you'vegot more time, right. But right36300:27:00.150 --> 00:27:03.500there in front of the abortion center, right there, is they're walking into36400:27:03.500 --> 00:27:07.220their appointment. You got to beas concise as possible. We got to36500:27:07.220 --> 00:27:11.859get to the point as much aspossible and then balance being relational as well.36600:27:11.980 --> 00:27:15.500It's not an easy balance, right, and so sometimes we'll get off36700:27:15.619 --> 00:27:19.009balance and it's sometimes of necessity wedo that. Yeah, and it is36800:27:19.130 --> 00:27:25.769definitely harder when you know, okay, there's a baby's life really is hanging36900:27:25.809 --> 00:27:29.009in the balance. That wasn't thecase. I knew in the mock session.37000:27:29.049 --> 00:27:32.680Right, she's a pregnant exactly.No, baby's going to die.37100:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.039So it is a little bit artificial. Yeah, artificial there. But but37200:27:37.160 --> 00:27:45.829yeah, I thought also in termsof critiquing, that I also really never37300:27:45.869 --> 00:27:52.109acknowledged her concerns about the dangerous activityand that it could indeed be harmful,37400:27:52.190 --> 00:27:56.309in that the fears were rational.I really think, yes, I think37500:27:56.430 --> 00:28:00.740that you did. Oh, youdo well in the sense this. This37600:28:00.859 --> 00:28:04.339is what I really liked, becauseyou took that whole concern for her baby,37700:28:04.380 --> 00:28:08.299because you did. You Did articulateunderstand your concern for your baby and37800:28:08.460 --> 00:28:14.009you kind of turned it around andused it as fuel to help her to37900:28:14.089 --> 00:28:18.250see that this is a natural soyou said something like that maternal instinct that38000:28:18.329 --> 00:28:21.089you feel that you want to protectyour baby, right, and that you38100:28:21.369 --> 00:28:25.329you don't want any harm to hadcome to your child. Yeah, is38200:28:25.450 --> 00:28:27.759actually a God given thing, becauseyou know that you want to protect your38300:28:27.759 --> 00:28:32.160child. Okay. Now, obviouslythat's been perverted because you're going to kill38400:28:32.160 --> 00:28:36.160your child because you don't want yourchild to suffer. That doesn't make sense,38500:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.279right, but you're bringing that totheir knowledge, like, and using38600:28:38.359 --> 00:28:41.829it as a springboard, yeah,to really show them there's something in you38700:28:42.509 --> 00:28:45.589that wants to do the right thingtoward your child. Yeah, and that's38800:28:45.670 --> 00:28:51.069something. Let's go in a positivedirection with that, rather than taking it38900:28:51.150 --> 00:28:53.309into a direction where you're going tokill that child. Yeah, okay,39000:28:53.390 --> 00:28:56.900well, good, so I cancross that off of something I need to39100:28:56.980 --> 00:28:59.740improve and maybe you could have improvedon it a little more. I'm not39200:28:59.859 --> 00:29:04.099sure. I think possibly one ofthe ways I might have improved on that39300:29:06.059 --> 00:29:08.859is what we always talk about sufferingwith them right, with compassion, and39400:29:10.009 --> 00:29:11.970just kind of taking that in.Oh yeah, I understand. I don't39500:29:12.009 --> 00:29:15.529know that you so much did that, but it's not like she came up39600:29:15.529 --> 00:29:18.970to you weeping her eyes out.You know I'm saying, it's like she39700:29:18.049 --> 00:29:22.609puts this in. It's obvious thatshe puts this out there as just a39800:29:22.769 --> 00:29:26.440justification, not that she to menow again, this is just a moccess,39900:29:26.599 --> 00:29:30.759since it was. It wasn't forreal, but there wasn't a whole40000:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.880lot of pain in that statement.Deeply concerned. It was more like,40100:29:33.960 --> 00:29:36.440yeah, I'm just concerned this baby'sgonna be all messed up. Right.40200:29:36.599 --> 00:29:38.950So what a whole lot, youknow, to suffer with our end.40300:29:40.029 --> 00:29:44.150But maybe you could have put moreemotion into that and more like connecting with40400:29:44.269 --> 00:29:45.109that, because, I mean,at the end of the day, that40500:29:45.269 --> 00:29:48.789is a valid concern and if that'struly a concern for her, we need40600:29:48.869 --> 00:29:52.299to identify with that as much aswe can. Write that it's a justification40700:29:52.420 --> 00:29:56.740for abortion, but in her mindit is. And then, of course,40800:29:56.859 --> 00:29:59.420like you did, kind of turnit on its head bring around to40900:29:59.460 --> 00:30:00.740it. Well, this is noreason to kill your child. Yeah,41000:30:00.779 --> 00:30:04.700well, as I was thinking through, you can't say everything that you wish41100:30:04.779 --> 00:30:07.369that you could say. Ever,if there's always going to be things you41200:30:07.410 --> 00:30:12.809couldn't say. But I never mentionedRehab program or anything like that, and41300:30:12.970 --> 00:30:18.690I wondered if I should have.Well, I mean actually you did.41400:30:18.009 --> 00:30:22.880You did. You didn't mention,don't remember particularly a Rehab Program, but41500:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.880toward the end you talked about theresources and I think you even said that41600:30:27.000 --> 00:30:32.960we have places, I think specificallyfor you. Didn't say Rehab, but41700:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.549to me I got from it andI think the person that you were counseling.41800:30:37.109 --> 00:30:40.990What did we call Maddie in thissad again, I guess she's always41900:30:41.029 --> 00:30:42.470there. I don't remember what wecook at. I don't think you got42000:30:42.509 --> 00:30:45.829her name and that maybe, whichactually would be a problem, wouldn't it?42100:30:45.950 --> 00:30:48.349Yeah, yeah, that was oneof the things that you do.42200:30:48.710 --> 00:30:51.779You did not get her name andI don't think I ever you know why42300:30:51.779 --> 00:30:53.940you didn't get her name, becauseyou met her several times before her and42400:30:55.099 --> 00:31:00.740Sarah obviously sleep right. Anyway,I think you did. You didn't mention42500:31:00.819 --> 00:31:06.730resources. You didn't mention places.Gosh, you didn't use the word Rehab,42600:31:07.049 --> 00:31:08.930but that's what I got from it. Maybe I'll just read into maybe42700:31:08.970 --> 00:31:14.450I did that, but I'm I'mactually agreen with your earlier statement because I42800:31:14.529 --> 00:31:19.000know this is one of my weaknessesas as a human being, that as42900:31:19.039 --> 00:31:26.440a counselor, is listening more carefullyand really making other people feel they're heard.43000:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.000Yeah, I don't think I dothat super well. It I do43100:31:29.160 --> 00:31:32.519it, I have to do itconsciously. It doesn't come supernaturally to me.43200:31:32.759 --> 00:31:34.789I think it does come naturally toyou. Okay, so it's something43300:31:34.869 --> 00:31:37.950that I really have to say,contient, it doesn't come supernaturally to you.43400:31:38.230 --> 00:31:41.309Know it doesn't. You mean itdoesn't come naturally, but the Lord43500:31:41.430 --> 00:31:45.910helps you to get it supernaturally.Actually, sometimes I get okay, that's43600:31:45.910 --> 00:31:48.420good, but but, for example, another thing that I felt I could43700:31:48.420 --> 00:31:52.819have improved upon when she talked aboutthe ultrasound, I asked if this was43800:31:52.819 --> 00:31:56.380pretty early on. I said,did you have an ultra sound of the43900:31:56.420 --> 00:32:00.579baby, and she said yes,and then I said so you saw the44000:32:00.660 --> 00:32:04.769baby, and she said no,yeah, I never. That was again44100:32:04.769 --> 00:32:09.849a golden opportunity to say why not. Yeah, what? She even specifically44200:32:09.890 --> 00:32:14.730said something to the effect of Ididn't really want to see it, right,44300:32:14.970 --> 00:32:16.480which is kind of weird. Yeah, I mean, because you're thinking,44400:32:16.680 --> 00:32:21.039in real life, would you goto nobi doctor and not want to44500:32:21.079 --> 00:32:22.200see it? Not Want to seethe ultra sound, because that was what44600:32:22.400 --> 00:32:27.720was implied there, right, Um, so you didn't run with that.44700:32:28.119 --> 00:32:30.589I didn't run with that and I, you know, in retrospect, I44800:32:30.670 --> 00:32:34.509thought that, were this a reallife situation, counselors, we need to44900:32:34.549 --> 00:32:37.150jump on that. Yeah, whynot? Because again she's giving us a45000:32:37.269 --> 00:32:43.109golden opportunity to say, there issomething in your heart that recognizes if you45100:32:43.349 --> 00:32:46.819look at that ultrasound, abortion willbe unthinkable. Yeah, well, you45200:32:46.859 --> 00:32:50.259would have looked at the altar,yea. Yeah, it certainly would have45300:32:50.299 --> 00:32:53.460been a statement in a moment thatwould have been helpful to capitalize home,45400:32:53.579 --> 00:32:58.970for sure. Right now, Ido want to say because one of my45500:32:59.089 --> 00:33:05.490lessons again from something that happened thisweekending counseling. I came away thinking all45600:33:05.569 --> 00:33:07.089the millions of things you, Icould have said, could have done.45700:33:07.289 --> 00:33:13.519We all do that, right,but then I thought of afterwards, I45800:33:14.279 --> 00:33:16.640found out things that I hadn't knownwhile I was doing the counseling session and45900:33:16.759 --> 00:33:22.079realized wow, when I was counseling, the things that I did focus on46000:33:22.440 --> 00:33:27.750were exactly not only what that womanneeded to hear, but what some other46100:33:27.829 --> 00:33:32.470people needed to hear. And soit occurred to me to really make this46200:33:32.710 --> 00:33:38.390point for everyone in a counseling situation. If the Holy Spirit dwells you,46300:33:38.950 --> 00:33:44.380the Holy Spirit knows the situation,he knows the person you're counseling and he46400:33:44.700 --> 00:33:49.299knows what is necessary. Right,and to trust that, yeah, so46500:33:49.539 --> 00:33:52.940that the things that you've left outwe can all learn learn from from,46600:33:53.059 --> 00:33:55.450like what we're doing right now,and maybe do better next time. But46700:33:55.769 --> 00:34:00.529sometimes the things that you have leftout there was a reason and the things46800:34:00.609 --> 00:34:05.730that you focused on there was adivine, yeah, reason, and to46900:34:05.809 --> 00:34:07.329trust that. Yeah, and that'swhy I would say, if I could47000:34:07.329 --> 00:34:14.480give you guys that are listening,one single key to being an effective sidewalk47100:34:14.559 --> 00:34:17.360counselor, it would be walk withGod. Yes, walk with the Lord.47200:34:17.599 --> 00:34:21.559I mean listen these mock sessions,listen these podcasts, get training,47300:34:21.880 --> 00:34:23.989all that stuff. That stuff's great, yeah, but if you're not walking47400:34:24.030 --> 00:34:28.710with the Lord, it's all justa bunch of information. That's you got47500:34:28.789 --> 00:34:31.150to be walking with Jesus. Heknows what's going on far more than we47600:34:31.269 --> 00:34:36.829ever will. Yeah, and hecan. He can guide the conversation if47700:34:36.829 --> 00:34:39.260you're in tune with him, andit is important to be prepared. I47800:34:39.380 --> 00:34:45.500totally again again, I agree witheverything you've said, but you should also47900:34:45.980 --> 00:34:52.929be prepared. And one of thethings that I think I knew and did48000:34:52.409 --> 00:34:58.730did okay in this session, wasI knew about that spark of light at48100:34:58.769 --> 00:35:05.809the moment of conception because I readabout development of babies and what happens in48200:35:05.889 --> 00:35:08.239you drown all because I know theremight be something that's going to be said48300:35:08.639 --> 00:35:13.360in whatever article I'm reading that I'mgoing to be able to use, and48400:35:13.480 --> 00:35:19.119then, if it's something really goodlike that, I remember that and was48500:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.909able to use that. She didn'tknow that fact. Most people don't know48600:35:22.030 --> 00:35:27.269that fact right, but was thenable to use that to get into a48700:35:27.349 --> 00:35:31.510discussion about God and the miracle ofGod, even in just that simple fact48800:35:31.670 --> 00:35:36.420of what happened in the darkness ofthe womb, and use that to paint48900:35:36.460 --> 00:35:42.260a picture for her of like versusdarkness and the choice choices that that she49000:35:42.380 --> 00:35:47.659faced yeah, so be prepared andand be able to use some of that49100:35:47.900 --> 00:35:53.849preparation to guide and develop a conversation. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and49200:35:54.010 --> 00:35:58.650you kind of you went right intodo you believe in God? That was49300:35:58.690 --> 00:36:01.570pretty early in the conversation. Right. I think it's important to go ahead49400:36:01.570 --> 00:36:04.760and ask that question. Do youbelieve in God? It gives you an49500:36:04.800 --> 00:36:06.960ability. It doesn't mean you don'tmention the Lord. When they say no,49600:36:07.639 --> 00:36:09.159like she did. Right, stillgoing to talk about God, but49700:36:09.239 --> 00:36:12.840it gives you at least where you'recoming from. You know, if they49800:36:12.880 --> 00:36:14.960say, Oh, yeah, believein God, I believe the bibles that49900:36:15.000 --> 00:36:16.320were to God. I believe Jesusis the son of God. I believe.50000:36:16.519 --> 00:36:21.190You know all those like you canbring all that stuff up right,50100:36:21.349 --> 00:36:23.150you can help. Will you believethe bibles were to God? Do you50200:36:23.230 --> 00:36:25.869know what the Bible says? Andsome one hundred and thirty nine versus thirteen50300:36:25.949 --> 00:36:30.710and fourteen. Yeah, for youform my inward parts. Is God talking50400:36:30.750 --> 00:36:34.820about just one person, as youtalked about everybody, right. So it's50500:36:34.860 --> 00:36:37.820helpful. Yeah, when they saythey don't believe in God, like she50600:36:37.940 --> 00:36:39.340did, and you, you didn'tjust leave it there. I think that's50700:36:39.340 --> 00:36:43.739really important. You ask, doyou believe in God? She said not50800:36:44.099 --> 00:36:46.889really, but then she got into, and I think you got into what50900:36:47.130 --> 00:36:50.449you believe in a higher powers?From like that, I think that was51000:36:50.489 --> 00:36:52.650your follow up question. She's likeKinda, yeah, yes, so,51100:36:52.889 --> 00:36:58.010yeah, and that is I thinkfor all of you who are in a51200:36:58.170 --> 00:37:00.289city or a place where you're notin the Bible belt, to maybe you're51300:37:00.329 --> 00:37:05.800going to have people more likely tosay I'm spiritual but I don't believe in51400:37:05.960 --> 00:37:08.719God. I do consider myself spiritual. To ask that question. Will so51500:37:09.039 --> 00:37:13.400explain that you believe in a higherpower. That happened just today. Yeah,51600:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.599it was. It was a womanwho said no, I don't believe51700:37:15.639 --> 00:37:19.230in God and I asked that followup question. Will you do you believe51800:37:19.269 --> 00:37:22.909in a higher power? And shedid, and from there your you are51900:37:22.949 --> 00:37:28.829able to enter bring God into theequation, using from there whatever their perspective52000:37:28.869 --> 00:37:32.019is and bring it to a moretruthful perspective of God. But also this52100:37:32.260 --> 00:37:36.619is if I have someone that saysright out I don't believe in God,52200:37:36.780 --> 00:37:40.780I am probably I'm not, nevergonna not mention God, but I am52300:37:40.940 --> 00:37:45.889going to go into more of thescientific facts and some of the things of52400:37:45.969 --> 00:37:51.010human development to help them to perceivethe humanity of that baby. Yeah,52500:37:51.170 --> 00:37:55.809not solely from God's viewpoint, butfrom, I honestly, a secular viewpoint,52600:37:55.849 --> 00:38:00.760a scientific viewpoint, just to dispelthe thought that this is just a52700:38:00.800 --> 00:38:05.679blob of inhibit tissue exactly. Yeah, yeah, I think you did that.52800:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.000Like I mentioned anything earlier, youdid a very good job of weaving52900:38:08.079 --> 00:38:12.760in the humanity the baby, constantlytalking about that baby, so a human53000:38:12.800 --> 00:38:15.710being, a child. Using thosewords is important. Yeah, springboard and53100:38:15.750 --> 00:38:20.070off of that scientific fact, youknow about light, that spark of light.53200:38:20.110 --> 00:38:25.190Yeah, and what I think,though, was possibly for me well,53300:38:25.349 --> 00:38:30.380to the most impactful things. Thefirst thing was contrasting light with darkness.53400:38:30.420 --> 00:38:32.940Yeah, as you talk about Godand you talk about how Jesus is53500:38:34.420 --> 00:38:37.300the light of the world. Sheeven finished a statement that you started.53600:38:37.380 --> 00:38:40.219You know, God said let therebe light, which is actually a very53700:38:40.300 --> 00:38:45.050common thing, even for people whosay that they're atheist. Right. As53800:38:45.250 --> 00:38:49.130you know, a society, somuch of the word of God has been53900:38:49.170 --> 00:38:52.210woven into our vernacular, into ourlanguage and things like that, like the54000:38:52.289 --> 00:38:54.050phrase apple of my eye. That'sa biblical phrase. You know, there's54100:38:54.050 --> 00:38:57.800other phrases that we use, andso we know these things. You know,54200:38:57.880 --> 00:39:00.039God said let there be light andshe knew it. She finished it,54300:39:00.440 --> 00:39:02.159Sprung Board off of that, talkedabout how Jesus is the light of54400:39:02.199 --> 00:39:06.960the world, which I think waswas really good. And then, as54500:39:07.039 --> 00:39:09.989she had talked about in the verybeginning how they told her how bad we54600:39:10.070 --> 00:39:15.829were, you started talking about well, walking into that place, how do54700:39:15.869 --> 00:39:17.510you feel? Do you feel likethat's a place where there's light, you54800:39:17.590 --> 00:39:21.110know, God us, the Godof light, or is that a place54900:39:21.230 --> 00:39:24.900of darkness? And you really contrastthat, and I think making that contrast55000:39:25.380 --> 00:39:31.340not a US against them contrast really, but it's really a contrast of who55100:39:32.340 --> 00:39:37.340who in this scenario that's coming toyou with a proposition. They're coming to55200:39:37.420 --> 00:39:39.889you with the proposition of will killyour baby for money. Yeah, you're55300:39:40.010 --> 00:39:43.730we're coming to you with a propositionof will help you for free. Who55400:39:43.730 --> 00:39:46.449Do you think has your best interestin my really, and that's the question55500:39:46.530 --> 00:39:51.489that you're asking. We we representthe Lord, and so it's not us,55600:39:51.809 --> 00:39:53.000but it's the Lord. But whodo you think has your best interests55700:39:53.039 --> 00:39:58.039in mind? Yeah, and Ieven will sometimes talk about the money aspect.55800:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.239They're going to charge you whatever itis, pend on how far along55900:40:01.320 --> 00:40:05.760she is. In that scenario,probably seven or eight hundred dollars for an56000:40:05.760 --> 00:40:07.590abortion. Right. She was tenweeks along, so maybe lesson that.56100:40:09.349 --> 00:40:14.789And we're offering you things for free. Who you think, in this situation56200:40:14.989 --> 00:40:17.469has your best interests in mine?We don't want anything from you. They56300:40:17.750 --> 00:40:21.269they're going to take your money.They told you that. We're just a56400:40:21.309 --> 00:40:24.500much angry protesters here. We aretalking to you very, very, very56500:40:24.539 --> 00:40:30.179kindly and offering you things. Thereisn't us of the against them kind of56600:40:30.179 --> 00:40:32.820dynamic going on there. And whoshakes out better? Who can you trust56700:40:32.940 --> 00:40:37.449more? And it really is thatissue of trust. You can also even56800:40:37.530 --> 00:40:42.090use that if you have a bigpro abortion presence. YEA, that is56900:40:42.210 --> 00:40:46.170trying to drown you out and thewomen are really struggling to hear the choice57000:40:46.250 --> 00:40:52.199for life. I will bring upthat contrast that who is really offering you57100:40:52.320 --> 00:40:54.840a choice? Do you hear UStrying to drown out the choice for death?57200:40:55.199 --> 00:40:59.000No, we can't. We can'teven come up on to the property.57300:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.079Yeah, but who? Why doyou think they are trying to drown57400:41:01.079 --> 00:41:07.590out the choice is of help andand life. If, if it's,57500:41:07.829 --> 00:41:10.949if they're truly people of choice,wouldn't they want you to hear right that57600:41:12.070 --> 00:41:15.070you really do have another choice?So I think it is it is good57700:41:15.190 --> 00:41:20.579to bring the contrast, yeah,of truly what what they're facing out there.57800:41:20.579 --> 00:41:22.900Yeah, so that was the firstthing I thought was like really,57900:41:22.940 --> 00:41:29.059really good, that contrast. Andthen the second your testimony. You shared58000:41:29.099 --> 00:41:31.619your testimony, which really was similarto hers. Right, you were pregnant,58100:41:34.289 --> 00:41:37.210not a believer in Jesus, right, right, you're an atheist and58200:41:37.369 --> 00:41:42.449had an abortion. HMM, didn'tregret it immediately, but did in the58300:41:42.530 --> 00:41:45.050course of things. You did,and that's what brought you to the Lord,58400:41:45.289 --> 00:41:47.920is having a child and realizing that. So you brought that dynamic in58500:41:49.239 --> 00:41:52.960really your testimony to try to saveher from that being her testimony, yeah,58600:41:52.119 --> 00:41:55.039which I think was really good.Yeah, listen, guys, you58700:41:55.159 --> 00:41:59.119have a testimony right some way,shape or form, whether it has to58800:41:59.199 --> 00:42:02.710do with being pregnant outside of marriageor having had an abortion or not,58900:42:04.269 --> 00:42:06.670none of that at all. Youstill have a testimony you can share.59000:42:06.670 --> 00:42:10.150Yeah, and you can also bringother people's testimonies into equation as well.59100:42:10.389 --> 00:42:14.710Sure, I have a friend thatwas pregnant in high school and here was59200:42:14.750 --> 00:42:17.219her story and you can just talkabout how God is good or you can59300:42:17.260 --> 00:42:22.340talk about how things didn't go sogood because you didn't trust the Lord's right.59400:42:22.420 --> 00:42:23.820Shared a testimony. I think isimportant. Yeah, I want to59500:42:23.980 --> 00:42:29.460mention something about that testimony too,because, remember, this is mock this59600:42:29.579 --> 00:42:35.289is pretend I'm talking to someone who'smy buddy. He's probably heard my testimony59700:42:35.409 --> 00:42:40.969many, many times, and atthat part of this mock session I almost59800:42:40.969 --> 00:42:45.599started crying as I was sharing mytestimony because the power of that testimony,59900:42:45.679 --> 00:42:50.440in the sorrow of it, itwas just it's fresh every time I say60000:42:50.480 --> 00:42:54.360it, honestly. But maddie alsolook stricken if you look at her face60100:42:54.440 --> 00:42:58.079at that moment. Yeah, andshe said all she wanted to do was60200:42:58.159 --> 00:43:02.070hug me. So the reason Imentioned that is the power of your personal60300:43:02.230 --> 00:43:08.070testimony. It should never be underestimated. If you have a storytell it.60400:43:08.230 --> 00:43:13.860Maybe you it you walked a friendinto an abortion. Maybe it's up some60500:43:14.260 --> 00:43:17.500someone else you know, maybe yourown parents something, but we all do60600:43:17.780 --> 00:43:22.860probably have a story and we shouldwe should share it. Yeah, absolutely.60700:43:22.780 --> 00:43:25.860Well, kind of wrapping this thingup, the last thing I wanted60800:43:25.860 --> 00:43:29.690to mention that I think was agood thing that you mentioned, that you60900:43:30.130 --> 00:43:36.650said in this in this mock session, was just the reality that you're concerned61000:43:36.690 --> 00:43:39.809that your baby might be affected bydrug use or alcohol use, for smoking61100:43:39.849 --> 00:43:45.519and all that stuff, and there'snot a hundred percent certainty that that's that's61200:43:45.599 --> 00:43:47.639the case. Right. There's nothere's no guarantee. Now, could it61300:43:47.719 --> 00:43:51.360affect your baby? I think yousaid this. It certainly could. Those61400:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.360things are not good. And soyou did, after you had built a61500:43:53.440 --> 00:43:58.110relationship with her, right, kindof drop that. told her you shouldn't61600:43:58.150 --> 00:44:00.590continue in those they can harm yourbaby. Yeah, but there's not a61700:44:00.630 --> 00:44:05.030hundred percent certainty. Right. Idon't know that you said this, but61800:44:05.110 --> 00:44:07.630it is obviously implied. It's nota hundred percent certainty that that's going to61900:44:07.710 --> 00:44:12.539harm your baby, but it isa hundred percent certainty that abortion is right.62000:44:12.940 --> 00:44:15.420So let's just do the right thing. And then you led her.62100:44:16.260 --> 00:44:20.300I mean the scenario here's you're infront of the the abortion center, right,62200:44:20.460 --> 00:44:23.059she's headed right into the abortion center, and then to kind of really,62300:44:23.099 --> 00:44:27.250I think, give a transition tothis is just what did you come62400:44:27.289 --> 00:44:29.929over here and talk with me.Let's just sit in the shade. So62500:44:30.409 --> 00:44:35.449that could be doing that, sittingin the shade, getting in your vehicle,62600:44:35.570 --> 00:44:37.599maybe. I don't know, dependingon the scenario and our folks in62700:44:37.960 --> 00:44:40.800New York, that might be thescenario. Spatial it was really cold.62800:44:40.920 --> 00:44:44.559Hey, let's just sit and sitin my vehicle. Let's talk a little62900:44:44.559 --> 00:44:47.000first, get them away from theside. will get them away from really63000:44:47.039 --> 00:44:52.869the battle zone. Maybe taking themon board the MOBILETRA sound unit, if63100:44:52.869 --> 00:44:55.469you have that, taking them toa pregnancy center, if you have that,63200:44:55.710 --> 00:44:58.750you know whatever, but just gettingthem away from there, which I63300:44:58.789 --> 00:45:02.269think was really good. And andso yeah, let's it. I think63400:45:02.309 --> 00:45:05.630you did a great job. Well, thank you. But I did want63500:45:05.630 --> 00:45:09.179to make a point about when,when I took her away, I didn't63600:45:09.260 --> 00:45:15.940offer an ultrasound right, and insteadI offered to share the Gospel. Okay,63700:45:15.539 --> 00:45:21.019and again that was a conscious decisionbased on how the conversation had gone.63800:45:21.059 --> 00:45:24.530I thought there had been so muchtalk about God that I just didn't63900:45:24.530 --> 00:45:29.690want to wait on the sharing ofthe Gospel. But also in this scenario64000:45:29.690 --> 00:45:32.610I was thinking, well, sherefused to see the ultrasound before. Yeah,64100:45:32.929 --> 00:45:39.519and so maybe what she needs nowis a proper understanding of God and64200:45:39.719 --> 00:45:44.440then offer an ultrasound. That wasmy thinking. That may or may not64300:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.679have been the best decision. MayIt. Most of the time we say64400:45:49.079 --> 00:45:52.789get them on an ultrasround if youcan get them to. So that that64500:45:52.949 --> 00:45:57.909may have been a not such agood decision. And I also want to64600:45:57.949 --> 00:46:02.269say that we have a follow uppodcast in video that we're planning to do64700:46:02.710 --> 00:46:07.900of really part two, okay,of this. Yeah, where she I64800:46:07.059 --> 00:46:10.619do talk show how I shared theGospel. But I wanted to mention that64900:46:10.780 --> 00:46:15.460now because really, throughout this discussionwith her, because I knew she didn't65000:46:15.460 --> 00:46:22.250know the Lord, I was purposefullytrying to share God, yeah, and65100:46:22.809 --> 00:46:25.849prepare the way for May being ableto share the Gospel later on. Yeah,65200:46:27.010 --> 00:46:30.289yeah, that's good. We'll guessstay tuned for the follow up on65300:46:30.409 --> 00:46:36.920that and you'll be blessed by Hopefuy. Hopefully you were blessed by this and65400:46:37.079 --> 00:46:40.320learned something, and so we wouldlove for you to reach out maybe give65500:46:40.360 --> 00:46:45.920us some suggestions on I mean,how are we doing on these mock sessions?65600:46:46.119 --> 00:46:49.949We talked about whether or not wejust play it, let you listen65700:46:49.989 --> 00:46:52.550to it, or we play it. It will let you listen to it65800:46:52.670 --> 00:46:57.429then critique it afterwards, like wehave been doing, or maybe we critique65900:46:57.429 --> 00:47:00.269it as we go along. I'mnot sure. Maybe we just play it66000:47:00.349 --> 00:47:01.820and keep our mouth shut and don'teven critique it at all. I don't66100:47:01.820 --> 00:47:05.659know, but we'd certainly love tohear from you. Want to equip you.66200:47:06.139 --> 00:47:07.420Want to equip you in the mosteffective way, Paul, possible.66300:47:07.460 --> 00:47:09.860So let us know. Let usknow if we can improve on this any.66400:47:10.260 --> 00:47:14.219Let us know if there's some thingsthat we can do, episodes on66500:47:14.420 --> 00:47:17.730some as subjects or maybe even mocksessions that we can do about particular scenarios.66600:47:17.769 --> 00:47:22.849Are Certainly all kinds of scenarios youencounter an abortion center. But the66700:47:22.929 --> 00:47:25.170hope is that you guys will beencouraged and equipped, and we hope that66800:47:25.250 --> 00:47:29.969you were. Please again, sharethis podcast episode, share the podcast in66900:47:30.039 --> 00:47:32.559general with other people. Let himknow what we're doing and how they can67000:47:32.599 --> 00:47:37.119get on board and they can gettrained and all that stuff. We certainly67100:47:37.159 --> 00:47:38.440love for you guys to reach out. You can go and love life dot67200:47:38.440 --> 00:47:42.719org find out more in information aboutlove life. You can reach out to67300:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.829me, Daniel Love Life Dot Org. You reach out to her Vicky at67400:47:45.909 --> 00:47:49.949Love Life Dot Org, and untilnext time, God, bless God,67500:47:49.989 --> 00:48:07.260bless o love for love. Giveme our love for gratitude. I know67600:48:07.619 --> 00:48:15.610it will cost me my life.Nothing's too precious, and some that you