Ministering to A Suicidal Mom

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.759I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. And Me,200:00:06.120 --> 00:00:11.830Lord, I am yours, Iam yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel300:00:11.830 --> 00:00:17.429Center Pro Life Podcast, a podcastdesigned to equip, encourage and challenge you400:00:17.550 --> 00:00:21.660in pro life ministry and always werethe focus on the Gospel. Stay tuned.500:00:23.660 --> 00:00:35.890I felt show passish touchs your home. Use Me. Look. Hey,600:00:35.929 --> 00:00:40.530there, everybody, welcome to theGospel centered pro life podcast. I'm700:00:40.570 --> 00:00:47.210here with Daniel Parks. What's up? And and today's topic is another cheery800:00:47.409 --> 00:00:53.960topic. We're going to talk aboutsuicide. So, like so many of900:00:54.119 --> 00:01:00.280our issues that we bring up,this one we thought about because of an1000:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.430actual situation that we faced, yeah, where there was a mom who contacted1100:01:04.549 --> 00:01:08.150me. Actually, she was themom of a baby that she had killed.1200:01:08.390 --> 00:01:12.909Yeah, so she hit aboarded andshe's she was suicidal, at least1300:01:12.950 --> 00:01:21.340I would describe passively suicidal. AndI realize, man, this is a1400:01:21.540 --> 00:01:25.859little bit out of my comfort zone, a lot out of my comfort zone.1500:01:26.019 --> 00:01:30.500We Are we're not trained suicide preventioncounselors. So I thought it would1600:01:30.500 --> 00:01:37.810be good for me personally, butfor anyone involved in sidewalk ministry to have1700:01:38.049 --> 00:01:44.329researched and know a little bit aboutwhat happens if you come in contact with1800:01:44.530 --> 00:01:49.120someone who is either passively or activelysuicidal. Yeah, they're out there.1900:01:49.200 --> 00:01:53.280I know. I have definitely interactedwith many women that I would I think,2000:01:53.519 --> 00:01:59.599our suicidal, which is, youknow, no big surprise, right.2100:01:59.879 --> 00:02:04.150Sure, they're in desperate circumstances,there to kill their child. Yeah.2200:02:04.189 --> 00:02:07.229Yeah, and of course the realityis that that lie that women don't2300:02:07.229 --> 00:02:13.909regret abortions is dispelled in the factthat we deal with women who are suicidal.2400:02:13.949 --> 00:02:17.219Yes, and are suicidal not becauseof what we told them, not2500:02:17.340 --> 00:02:22.419because we told them that abortion waswrong, but because they know it's wrong2600:02:22.740 --> 00:02:27.340and they're suicidal because, I mean, essentially, the devil is a destroyer.2700:02:27.379 --> 00:02:30.889He wants to destroy their baby anddestroy them. Yeah, and so2800:02:30.969 --> 00:02:35.449it speaks to the destruction that abortionbrings. Yeah, and the reason why2900:02:35.449 --> 00:02:38.409we're talking about this topic, inthe conversation that you have with this woman,3000:02:38.569 --> 00:02:40.889speaks to the fact that we're notjust for the baby, we're also3100:02:42.009 --> 00:02:45.599for the mother and even if shehad an abortion, were for her.3200:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.560Yeah, and really, more toyour point, because we hear it all3300:02:49.639 --> 00:02:57.560the time, the reason these womenare feeling shame or guilt or suicide is3400:02:57.719 --> 00:03:02.909because we've instilled it in them.This woman never met a sidewalk counselor yeah,3500:03:04.030 --> 00:03:07.349there were none on the Sidebok,and in fact she called me saying3600:03:07.669 --> 00:03:10.750where were you all? She sheheard about our organization, she found my3700:03:10.830 --> 00:03:19.620name through that and contacted me.So she had never heard a word of3800:03:20.099 --> 00:03:27.289someone other than her own guilt andsorrow speaking to her heart. That was3900:03:27.409 --> 00:03:35.210causing the shame and and the deepsorrow. So you're probably going to face4000:03:35.250 --> 00:03:37.930it, if you're on the sidebalk. You're going to you're going to face4100:03:38.050 --> 00:03:39.409this. Yeah, and so whatdo we do? Yeah, and you4200:03:39.490 --> 00:03:43.960may even face it. You mightencounter women at the abortion center coming out4300:03:44.000 --> 00:03:47.520after they had the abortion, maybedirectly after they had the abortion or they're4400:03:47.520 --> 00:03:52.680there for a follow up appointment,and they share with you the depression that's4500:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.189set in, suicidal thoughts and allthat stuff. Yeah, you may encounter4600:03:55.550 --> 00:04:00.349from women who are coming into theabortion center to have an abortion, who4700:04:00.349 --> 00:04:04.789had a previous abortion. And there'sthe suicidal tendencies, the self destructive tendencies,4800:04:04.830 --> 00:04:10.900which manifest themselves in suicidal faults andactions, but also manifest themselves in4900:04:11.500 --> 00:04:15.459there they're killing another child. Yeah, it's that cycle of sin and death5000:04:15.540 --> 00:04:19.819and destruction. It's that sense inwhich all hope is lost. There's no5100:04:20.019 --> 00:04:23.779hope for me, may as wellhave another abord prison, may as well5200:04:23.819 --> 00:04:28.009take my own life. And,spoiler alert, the only way to break5300:04:28.050 --> 00:04:31.610that cycle is not through some twelvestate program not some hotline or something like5400:04:31.769 --> 00:04:35.250that, but it's through the powerof the Gospel. Yeah, and you5500:04:35.370 --> 00:04:39.199know that. You raise a very, very important point and I will I5600:04:39.519 --> 00:04:43.839will tell you that when I firstencountered her, did go through my head.5700:04:44.959 --> 00:04:48.000This is not my training. Yeah, and I need to connect her5800:04:48.040 --> 00:04:53.709with a suicide prevention hotline. Sokeep that in your heart. So I'm5900:04:53.750 --> 00:04:58.509thinking that I had mentioned, Ithink, to my sister that I was6000:04:58.629 --> 00:05:02.149counseling this woman and that was thefirst thing she asked. This is not6100:05:02.389 --> 00:05:08.420something you should be dealing with.You should be contacting a suicide prevention hotline.6200:05:09.180 --> 00:05:14.540So I did connect her with asuicide prevention hotline, but I will6300:05:14.699 --> 00:05:18.660tell you for exactly what you justsaid, Daniel, I had reservations doing6400:05:18.740 --> 00:05:28.370so. A suicide prevention hotline isnot necessarily Gospel oriented. They're not Christians6500:05:28.569 --> 00:05:32.769necessarily it's not even necessarily in anyway God based, church based. It6600:05:32.930 --> 00:05:41.480is a secular hotline and that alwaysgives me concern because the counseling, I6700:05:41.800 --> 00:05:46.279know, you know everyone who isfollowing this podcast because they love and know6800:05:46.439 --> 00:05:50.509the truth, that only the GospelSaves, only the Gospel pull and that6900:05:50.670 --> 00:05:57.870cycle of sin and desperation. Whywould we be referring them then to a7000:05:58.110 --> 00:06:02.870secular world view? So I hadthat tension. Yeah, I know I'm7100:06:02.870 --> 00:06:08.899not really trained and but I alsoknow that I do know how to share7200:06:08.899 --> 00:06:11.860the Gospel. Yeah, so I'lltell you what I did and what I7300:06:11.980 --> 00:06:15.500found out and then we can kindof go from there. What I did7400:06:15.620 --> 00:06:20.649initially was I shared the Gospel.I asked a lot of questions so that7500:06:20.689 --> 00:06:28.290I could find out enough to knowwhere to go with the Gospel discussion.7600:06:28.329 --> 00:06:32.560I found out she was she hadhad the abortion several months ago and she7700:06:32.839 --> 00:06:39.920was suicidal, passively suicidal, justwanted to die. Okay, so let's7800:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.920let's define some things real quick.I started out using those terms passively and7900:06:44.079 --> 00:06:46.629actively. Yeah, we can allpretty much figure out what that means,8000:06:46.750 --> 00:06:50.430but let's define it just in casefolks are wondering. Okay, so passive8100:06:50.550 --> 00:06:57.750suicidal thoughts are suicidal ideation or voiceseeing a desire to die. Yeah,8200:06:57.829 --> 00:07:00.779but not a plan, an activeplan to bring it about. Yeah,8300:07:01.220 --> 00:07:05.740so, and that she was at. That's called passive. When they're when8400:07:05.740 --> 00:07:10.860they're not really they don't have aplan. They they maybe don't even really8500:07:10.980 --> 00:07:15.769want to take action. But thereis they still have a desire to die.8600:07:15.290 --> 00:07:18.050And really, the way she wasvoiceeing it, it did get a8700:07:18.089 --> 00:07:21.529little bit worse over the course ofme talking with her. It started with8800:07:23.370 --> 00:07:28.569there was no reason to live,to it evolved to I hope someone kills8900:07:28.649 --> 00:07:31.720me. Yeah, so she didwant to die, but she would was9000:07:31.839 --> 00:07:36.600not necessarily going to take her ownlife. Active would be they have devised9100:07:36.639 --> 00:07:41.279a plan. This by far themore dangerous, although the passive con turn9200:07:41.399 --> 00:07:46.069into active, but active, thesuicidal they have a plan, they maybe9300:07:46.189 --> 00:07:51.870even have the weapons and they aregoing to take action or they are threatening9400:07:51.990 --> 00:07:57.110to take action. That's an activelysuicidal person and that's a much more dangerous,9500:07:57.110 --> 00:08:05.620high risk scenario. Yeah, neithergood, but but so so.9600:08:05.899 --> 00:08:11.100With her, I did share theGospel, I did go I did directly9700:08:11.180 --> 00:08:16.930address sin and the consequence of sin. Hopefully in a loving, compassionate manner.9800:08:16.930 --> 00:08:20.850I'm sure I never did. Yeah, that's yeah, how you do9900:08:20.970 --> 00:08:26.529it? Yeah, and and sheit. There was a lot of discussion.10000:08:26.529 --> 00:08:30.199It was like three hours our firstdiscussion and then in many, many10100:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.639hours over the course of the nextfew days. She ultimately, I would10200:08:33.679 --> 00:08:39.399say, was still feeling desperation anddespair, but she knew there was no10300:08:39.600 --> 00:08:43.269way out of out of it outsideof coming to the Lord, and she10400:08:43.389 --> 00:08:50.309did submit her life to the Lord. Yeah, so, but I also10500:08:50.990 --> 00:08:58.259did recommend that she contacts suicide preventionhot line and I gave her the the10600:08:58.419 --> 00:09:05.539hot line number. Yeah, Ididn't know that they're even were Christian suicide10700:09:05.580 --> 00:09:11.690hot line numbers. There are,but they they don't have a national manned10800:09:11.049 --> 00:09:16.809hot line phone number. You cansometimes email it's it's just it's not it's10900:09:16.850 --> 00:09:20.889not nearly as easy and neat tofind as it is the suicide hotline.11000:09:20.409 --> 00:09:26.480I didn't think she even contacted them. It wasn't a later as she had11100:09:26.519 --> 00:09:30.120come to the Lord. She'd saidshe was sounding better, but then she11200:09:30.240 --> 00:09:35.559was cycling back and that was whenI started researching. What what are some11300:09:35.720 --> 00:09:43.350specific strategies to to deal with asuicidal person and I also found out that11400:09:43.470 --> 00:09:50.909she had actually contacted the suicide preventionhotline and she told me it didn't help.11500:09:52.149 --> 00:09:58.379Yeah, now I will say thisthat there's obviously some pretty good people.11600:09:58.419 --> 00:10:03.460Well, maybe not obviously, butI have some fair amount of confidence11700:10:03.539 --> 00:10:07.210that there are some good people thatoperate those lines and that I'm sure have11800:10:07.330 --> 00:10:11.250good intentions. There's probably some solidbelievers there, yeah, that love Jesus11900:10:11.250 --> 00:10:13.570and they want to help people.So I don't want to paint that whole12000:10:13.610 --> 00:10:18.490suicide prevention hotline thing in a badlight. I'm sure it's helped people and12100:10:18.529 --> 00:10:24.039all of that, definitely, butthe reality is that there's parameters that they12200:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.080have to stay in. They probably, I don't know, maybe you can,12300:10:26.279 --> 00:10:31.720maybe, you know, probably notare able to mention Jesus, probably12400:10:31.879 --> 00:10:35.830not really able to share the gospel. And you know, if we believe12500:10:35.950 --> 00:10:39.509what the word of God says,that the Gospel is the hope of God12600:10:41.750 --> 00:10:46.669to salvation, the power of Godto salvation, Yeah, then the Gospel12700:10:46.710 --> 00:10:50.620can't be neglected in these conversations.Just principles of this world, ideas from12800:10:50.659 --> 00:10:54.059this world, philosophies of man,are not going to set people free.12900:10:54.460 --> 00:10:58.059Right. I want to read ascripture here which I think probably can encourage13000:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.620all of you guys, and Iwill say too that, yes, there13100:11:01.620 --> 00:11:05.049are situations that we get into andconversations that we get into that we ourselves13200:11:05.090 --> 00:11:09.649cannot handle, that we're not equippedto handle, and that we need to13300:11:09.730 --> 00:11:13.610bring maybe other voices into the conversation, maybe pastors or counselors, Christian counselors.13400:11:13.850 --> 00:11:18.879They can speak more clearly into thesesituations. So there are times we13500:11:18.919 --> 00:11:22.240need to leverage our connections in thebody of Christ and get other people to13600:11:22.279 --> 00:11:24.919speak into these conversations. Yeah,obviously with the woman's permission, because we13700:11:26.000 --> 00:11:30.080only preach confidence, that sort ofthing, our confidentiality. But there's a13800:11:30.159 --> 00:11:33.669scripture that I think is really powerfulas it pertains to this and as it13900:11:33.750 --> 00:11:37.590pertains to our confidence and really aswe look at ourselves. Or I'm not14000:11:37.669 --> 00:11:41.110equipped to do that. I'm nota counselor I'm not trained counselor I'm not14100:11:41.149 --> 00:11:46.789a psychologist or psychiatrist, and sowe would think I can't speak to these14200:11:46.830 --> 00:11:50.340situations and so I need to handit off to the professionals at the prevention14300:11:50.820 --> 00:11:54.620hotline or whatever. Yeah, butin actuality the Bible says this. And14400:11:54.700 --> 00:12:00.340Second Timothy, chapter three, itsays all scripture is given by inspiration of14500:12:00.419 --> 00:12:03.610God and is profitable for doctrine,for reproof, for Correction, for Instruction14600:12:03.690 --> 00:12:11.129and righteousness, that the man ofGod may be complete, thoroughly equipped for14700:12:11.289 --> 00:12:18.399every good work. So the Biblesays that scripture of itself, that scripture,14800:12:18.639 --> 00:12:22.159is sufficient and that they that havethe word of God, that says14900:12:22.200 --> 00:12:26.080that the man of God. It'sbecause Timothy is being discipled by Paul and15000:12:26.159 --> 00:12:30.549he's speaking specifically to Timothy as aman, but I think you could also15100:12:30.549 --> 00:12:33.830apply to women who are ministering theGospel. I don't think it's just exclusive15200:12:33.909 --> 00:12:37.870to men. If you women,if you men, if you have the15300:12:37.950 --> 00:12:43.620word of God, the word ofGod can thoroughly equip you for every good15400:12:43.700 --> 00:12:50.220work and suicide and see a sidaltendencies and thoughts are included in every good15500:12:50.299 --> 00:12:54.059work. So what I'm saying isbe in the word of God and God15600:12:54.179 --> 00:13:00.250can equip you to answer these issues, to be a resource for these women,15700:13:00.370 --> 00:13:03.450to speak to these women. Thatdoes not mean that you have to15800:13:03.570 --> 00:13:07.490be the only one speaking into thesituation. Bring others into the conversation.15900:13:07.610 --> 00:13:11.970As a appropriate. Again, bringyour pastor in. Bring maybe there's a16000:13:11.970 --> 00:13:16.639Christian counseling center in your church,bring that into the conversation. Don't feel16100:13:16.639 --> 00:13:18.279like you have to take ownership ofthe whole situation. Bring others in.16200:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.840Yeah, but also know that,yes, you are and you can be.16300:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.799You are equipped, if you havethe word of God and you can16400:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.909be confident in the word of God, to do a work in that way.16500:13:28.909 --> 00:13:31.470Yeah. Amen, and there wereover the course of the discussion there16600:13:31.509 --> 00:13:35.269would be I I did some thingsright. I'm going to go over the16700:13:35.429 --> 00:13:39.669five key steps that I think arevaluable from what I learned to my research16800:13:39.750 --> 00:13:45.379of dealing with suicidal people. Butbut there were times in the discussion when16900:13:45.419 --> 00:13:50.779I would throughout these several days,I was sending her scripture or stories in17000:13:50.860 --> 00:13:54.179the Bible and there were many timeswhen she would write back. It was17100:13:54.340 --> 00:13:58.210most of it was by text andshe would say that really helped. So17200:13:58.330 --> 00:14:03.570it was it was oftentimes scripture.There was something that I said in scripture17300:14:03.769 --> 00:14:09.000that that would help her through thatnext turtle. Right, and it's an17400:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.039ongoing process. But I do wantto get into so I did a lot17500:14:13.120 --> 00:14:18.000of research into what kinds of thingscan, we should we do when we're17600:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.159interacting with them. Besides, Iagree and I feel one of the most17700:14:22.159 --> 00:14:26.789important things is share it is themost important thing is to share the gospel.17800:14:26.830 --> 00:14:31.309Yeah, but there are some keysteps that I guess the experts really17900:14:31.350 --> 00:14:35.110agree on, these key steps.Yeah, and so just and we won't18000:14:35.149 --> 00:14:39.500take too long, we wrote anarticle and there are a lot of websites18100:14:39.539 --> 00:14:43.899that are included on that article sothat people can look for themselves and research18200:14:43.980 --> 00:14:50.059for themselves some of the specifics.But some of them were very counterintuitive to18300:14:50.139 --> 00:14:54.450me. The first one, whichI never came right out and said,18400:14:54.929 --> 00:14:58.970are you thinking of killing yourself?Have you? Do you actually have a18500:14:58.129 --> 00:15:03.970plan? And apparently you're supposed todo that. Okay, it. The18600:15:03.169 --> 00:15:09.600research shows, according to the articlesI read, that if they start saying18700:15:09.720 --> 00:15:15.120it, stating it, with awitness to someone else, to eate,18800:15:15.279 --> 00:15:20.710someone who is invested in them andlistening, it actually reduces the suicidal tendency.18900:15:22.269 --> 00:15:24.149Now, I would not have knownthat. And you know what,19000:15:24.350 --> 00:15:28.029there's in line with that scripture Iread in Second Timothy, there's a scripture19100:15:28.070 --> 00:15:31.750that comes to mind. Okay,it speaks directly to that. Tell me19200:15:31.789 --> 00:15:35.710I think, okay, and it'sfirst John and chapter one. Okay,19300:15:35.779 --> 00:15:39.820we're John Talks about walking in thelight. If we walk in the light,19400:15:39.019 --> 00:15:41.059is he's in the light. Wehave fellowship with one another in the19500:15:41.059 --> 00:15:45.340blood of Jesus Christ, is Soun, cleansed us from all sin. Also19600:15:45.460 --> 00:15:50.049Efhesians, is I, fees andEffesians eleven have no fellowship within frouful works19700:15:50.049 --> 00:15:52.809of darkness, but rather expose them. And so it speaks of exposing.19800:15:52.850 --> 00:15:58.570It speaks of bringing things to thelight, not dancing around the issue,19900:15:58.610 --> 00:16:02.169be getting right to it. Andso I think if the experts say that,20000:16:02.809 --> 00:16:04.960well, they're just agree with withthe Bible. With okay. So20100:16:06.240 --> 00:16:10.440I had not thought of that scriptureat all. That is that's perfect.20200:16:11.879 --> 00:16:15.159That is what the experts say.Have have them to find out as directly.20300:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.669Do you have a plan? Yeah, it's is is this beyond just20400:16:19.950 --> 00:16:22.750thinking about it? Right? Idid. Later, after reading this,20500:16:22.990 --> 00:16:30.429I did ask her and she shesaid that she she believed that suicide would20600:16:30.429 --> 00:16:34.179put her soul in jeopardy and shedidn't want that to happen, but she20700:16:34.340 --> 00:16:42.460did not believe that that if someoneelse took her life, wishing for someone20800:16:42.500 --> 00:16:45.860else to take her life she didnot feel was putting her soul in jeopardy.20900:16:47.139 --> 00:16:51.330So at that point we were ableto have a discussion about that from21000:16:51.370 --> 00:16:55.250a biblical perspective. But so that'snumber one. Go ahead and talk about21100:16:55.250 --> 00:16:57.610it, bring it to light.I love that scripture. Secondly, is21200:16:57.809 --> 00:17:02.360just being there, and that wassomething that it's just a part of my21300:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.319nature when I know that someone isin pain. I think that's why I21400:17:06.480 --> 00:17:08.559do what I do out on thesidewalk. I want to be there.21500:17:08.799 --> 00:17:11.880That's when I'm the best friend,is actually when someone is in pain.21600:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.150I'm a bad weather friend. I'ma better bad weather friend than a good21700:17:15.150 --> 00:17:18.390weather friend, which is kind ofthe opposite of most people. So I21800:17:18.670 --> 00:17:22.470was there for her because I knewthis was a woman who was in pain21900:17:22.589 --> 00:17:26.430and I was staying in touch withher. And that's the second key step,22000:17:26.150 --> 00:17:30.980that you be present physically, byphones in some way be there for22100:17:32.099 --> 00:17:37.339that person. Being showing support isvery key. That suicidal people feel disconnected22200:17:37.859 --> 00:17:42.619from everyone. Yeah, and sothat connection point is is really important.22300:17:44.180 --> 00:17:45.849Yeah, I mean, I havea scripture for that. Oh, let's22400:17:45.849 --> 00:17:49.730hear it. Okay, I maynot quote it exactly. Okay, it's22500:17:49.769 --> 00:17:56.450a proverb eighteen one. Okay,man that isolates himself rages against sound judgment22600:17:56.490 --> 00:18:02.359and seeks his own so this,this kind of isolation dynamic you see with22700:18:02.440 --> 00:18:06.480a lot of people that are suicide, sidle or depressed. Yeah, isolate22800:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.160themselves, and so we kind ofwe don't force our way into the situation,22900:18:10.400 --> 00:18:12.910but we want to be present.Yeah, bear one another's burdens,23000:18:14.069 --> 00:18:17.230and so if you fulfill the lawof Christ as, another scripture that comes23100:18:17.269 --> 00:18:19.430to mind is that we're supposed tobe there, even if it seems like23200:18:19.509 --> 00:18:22.990they don't want us there, tobe as present as possible. Of course,23300:18:22.190 --> 00:18:26.069with you, you weren't physically presentin this situation, but you were23400:18:26.109 --> 00:18:29.700present. They're sending her text messagelet her know that you care. Yeah,23500:18:29.819 --> 00:18:33.299that's important that. That helps bearthe burden with someone right, know23600:18:33.460 --> 00:18:37.059that you're there, right, andyou know, it was relatively easy because23700:18:37.180 --> 00:18:38.900she actually lives very far away.There was no way I could be there23800:18:38.980 --> 00:18:45.049with her, so I would sendtax just continually sending scripture, quite frequently23900:18:45.089 --> 00:18:48.210at first, less so now.And I when I read this, I24000:18:48.289 --> 00:18:52.130thought about our mentorship program through lovelife, having someone who is literally walking24100:18:52.210 --> 00:18:57.400alongside that woman for a minimum ofa year so that she really knows she24200:18:59.160 --> 00:19:03.400is not alone in this. Thethird key point is to keep them safe,24300:19:03.039 --> 00:19:06.799and the only way you can dothat, first of all, you'd24400:19:06.839 --> 00:19:10.710have to be there or you wouldhave to have connections with someone who is24500:19:10.869 --> 00:19:15.069there. Yeah, with this woman, I didn't have that. But you24600:19:15.109 --> 00:19:18.029can't keep them safe if you don'tknow if they have a plan, do24700:19:18.150 --> 00:19:21.109they have weapons, and all thatkind of stuff. And so what this24800:19:21.230 --> 00:19:25.099article recommended is you find that out. If you're not physically there, ask24900:19:25.140 --> 00:19:27.819a lot of questions. Find outdo they have weapons, if they have25000:19:29.019 --> 00:19:33.220weapons in the home, that isactually correlates with a higher likelihood that they25100:19:33.259 --> 00:19:38.049will carry out the suicide. Yeah, so, so again, be direct,25200:19:38.369 --> 00:19:41.730don't bring it to light. Findout do they and if they do,25300:19:42.009 --> 00:19:47.329if they have a plan and ifthey have weapons, you are supposed25400:19:47.369 --> 00:19:51.930to contact the authorities. Yeah,and that would be a breach of trust25500:19:52.170 --> 00:19:55.920perhaps, but at that point,if that that this is serious, if25600:19:55.960 --> 00:20:00.799they have weapons a plan and youcan't be there to physically intervene, someone25700:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.559needs to be there to physically intervene. Yeah, I have a scripture for25800:20:04.680 --> 00:20:11.069that. Oh Gosh, you areright on it today. Let's going to25900:20:11.109 --> 00:20:14.190be one that really applause. Well, I think it can apply this situation.26000:20:14.309 --> 00:20:18.950But we apply to the unborn theproverbs twenty four, verse eleven.26100:20:18.990 --> 00:20:22.539Yeah, rescue those who are staggeringtoward the slaughter. Of course, this26200:20:22.579 --> 00:20:26.779is self slaughters, self murders.Yeah, what suicide is? Hold back26300:20:26.859 --> 00:20:30.940those who are stumbling toward death.Right, in a lot of ways,26400:20:30.980 --> 00:20:36.009a woman who's suicidal, a manwho suicidal, is staggering, stumbling toward26500:20:36.170 --> 00:20:40.130death. Yeah, and so we'resupposed to hold them back, keep them26600:20:40.170 --> 00:20:44.049safe. Yeah, if that meanscalling the police, if we know they,26700:20:44.250 --> 00:20:48.089like you said, got a planin plays and they've got the implements26800:20:48.170 --> 00:20:51.680of their death right, it's like, yeah, we gotta interview for their26900:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.119Sake, because we care about thesethat's right. We don't want them to27000:20:55.160 --> 00:20:57.640end up in Helle, we don'twant them to die, we don't want27100:20:57.799 --> 00:21:03.279the destruction that the devil wants,and so really what we're doing is counteracting27200:21:03.319 --> 00:21:07.430the works of the enemy. Yeah, they're like exactly. Number four is27300:21:07.589 --> 00:21:11.869to help them connect. That's verysimilar to being there, but in terms27400:21:11.910 --> 00:21:17.349of connecting with a safety net,not just you being there, but because27500:21:17.430 --> 00:21:22.660a suicidal person is, as Ican attest, is incredibly draining. There27600:21:22.700 --> 00:21:25.339were times when I would see atext from her where I just felt like27700:21:25.460 --> 00:21:27.619crawling in a hole. Yeah,because it was so ongoing and it's so27800:21:27.859 --> 00:21:33.970heavy. So having connection points forthem outside of just you. Yeah,27900:21:34.369 --> 00:21:37.089a safety net. It in inlove life. It might be a mentor,28000:21:38.089 --> 00:21:42.009it might be a counselor and acounseling or a counseling group, a28100:21:42.170 --> 00:21:48.440group of friends, whatever, connectthe suicide prevention group. So helping them28200:21:48.799 --> 00:21:52.720to connect church pastors, a church. Just think about what can be a28300:21:52.839 --> 00:21:56.920safety net. And asked questions tofigure out what might be the best safety28400:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.279net for the for that particular woman. Do you have a scripture for that?28500:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.910Well, not one. I meanthe ones that I shared earlier kind28600:22:03.950 --> 00:22:07.589of do speak to that, butyeah, not a one prescripture in one28700:22:07.230 --> 00:22:11.630particular scripture in mind. Okay,okay, but maybe I'll come up with28800:22:11.670 --> 00:22:14.029one. Oh, you probably will. Okay. So the last, the28900:22:14.109 --> 00:22:18.380last one of the five key pointsfollow up. Follow up. Don't just29000:22:19.299 --> 00:22:26.859be there for day one and thenforget about them. So follow up regularly29100:22:26.900 --> 00:22:30.569after you've connect to even if you'veconnected them, with trained emergency hot lines29200:22:30.569 --> 00:22:36.730are professionals, continue to stay intouch and studies actually show that there is29300:22:36.769 --> 00:22:41.529a death. I'm sorry, thereis a reduction in deaths by suicide when29400:22:41.690 --> 00:22:45.720follow up is involved. So besure to follow up. So another point29500:22:45.799 --> 00:22:51.319that I want to raise. Youraised earlier, but with with this woman29600:22:51.359 --> 00:22:56.000in particular, I was really feelingshe kept cycling back. She would be29700:22:56.200 --> 00:22:59.549good for a day or two andthen she'd psycle back and at that point29800:22:59.589 --> 00:23:04.470I felt like the I knew shehad contacted suicide hotline, I knew she29900:23:04.589 --> 00:23:08.430had supposedly come to the Lord,I knew I was sharing scripture and I30000:23:08.549 --> 00:23:12.059really was kind of at a deadend. Yeah, I had also shared30100:23:12.259 --> 00:23:18.660post aboard of groups with her andand an online post aboard of group,30200:23:19.500 --> 00:23:23.779and she was not taking advantage ofthose at all. So I ended up30300:23:23.819 --> 00:23:27.849calling Stephanie Ryanhardt, Stephanie Reinhardt,as a name everyone should know. She30400:23:29.089 --> 00:23:33.009is with Love Life Dot Org.She heads up the post aboard of program30500:23:33.170 --> 00:23:41.369with Love Life and so she isvery knowledgeable about the specifics of dealing with30600:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.319a healing program with a post aboardof woman. Yeah, I first of30700:23:45.359 --> 00:23:51.039all asked the woman I was counseling. Can I share the information with Stephanie30800:23:52.200 --> 00:23:53.440and would you be willing to talkwith her? She said yes, so30900:23:53.480 --> 00:24:00.269I called Stephanie. I gave herthe back background and Stephanie called her immediately31000:24:00.670 --> 00:24:07.910and the immediate aftermath of her talkwith Stephanie was that she felt better.31100:24:07.990 --> 00:24:12.579Okay, and I asked for becauseshe's she sent me a verse. The31200:24:12.740 --> 00:24:18.539next day this woman sent me averse saying this really resonates with me and31300:24:18.619 --> 00:24:22.900it was so perfect. It wassuch a great verse and I said this31400:24:22.099 --> 00:24:26.690is amazing, I love this verseyou. This is showing like a whole31500:24:26.769 --> 00:24:33.170different kind of outlook. Are youto have you reached a turning point?31600:24:33.329 --> 00:24:36.329Are you at a turning point,because this feels like and she said,31700:24:36.329 --> 00:24:40.440you know, I think I mightbe. And what she said after sharing31800:24:40.480 --> 00:24:45.440that verse was that Stephanie had sharedwhat she called, I forget what they31900:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.680were called, but it was,oh, declarations. She death. Stephanie32000:24:49.759 --> 00:24:55.230Calls Them Declarations and she shares thisas part of her healing Post Board of32100:24:55.269 --> 00:25:00.549program the declarations are all verses whoI am in Christ and what it's doing32200:25:00.710 --> 00:25:06.589is shifting that focus on the problems, on the struggles on the grief,32300:25:06.750 --> 00:25:11.220on the sadness, on the suicidalthoughts, shifting them back to Jesus.32400:25:11.740 --> 00:25:18.259But who we are in Jesus andand this woman found those very useful.32500:25:19.140 --> 00:25:22.890What some of them are like?How? Just say the first one,32600:25:22.930 --> 00:25:26.250because anyone can go to our article. They're very there's many of them.32700:25:26.769 --> 00:25:33.730But what what a suicidal woman issaying is I renounce the law. Wait,32800:25:33.809 --> 00:25:37.759wait, she's saying she's rejected,she's on love, she's dirty,32900:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.599she's shameful, that she can neverbe accepted. All of that I had33000:25:41.720 --> 00:25:48.200heard from this woman. Yeah,but what God says for is yet to33100:25:48.319 --> 00:25:51.869to all who did receive him,to those who believed in his name,33200:25:51.910 --> 00:25:56.630he gave the right to become childrenof God. So I am a child33300:25:56.789 --> 00:25:59.950of God, and repeating that declaration, I am a child of God,33400:26:00.349 --> 00:26:03.190and then the a verse that's linkedwith it, and there's many of them.33500:26:03.230 --> 00:26:07.099Yeah, those were very, veryhelpful. Yeah, for this woman,33600:26:07.099 --> 00:26:11.579of course, that really speaks tothe word of God being like let's33700:26:11.740 --> 00:26:15.740let's believe the report of the ofthe Lord, in contrast our feelings.33800:26:15.819 --> 00:26:18.650Right. Yeah, and if she'sa believer in Jesus, and you said33900:26:18.650 --> 00:26:22.970You share the Gospel where and shesurrender her life to Jesus, then she34000:26:23.089 --> 00:26:26.369has this declaration to make that she'sa child of God, that she belongs34100:26:26.490 --> 00:26:30.250to the king of kings and theLord of Lords and she's his child and34200:26:30.329 --> 00:26:34.000according to this scripture, in contrastto her feelings, right, I think34300:26:34.000 --> 00:26:41.400that's good. Yeah, now whathappened later, a day, I think34400:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.480it was a day or two later, was I could tell from the text34500:26:45.559 --> 00:26:49.230I was getting that she was cyclingback. Okay, so just remember not34600:26:49.430 --> 00:26:53.750to be discouraged by that. Butremember those five key points. One of34700:26:53.789 --> 00:27:00.269them was stay in touch, geta connection point and a safety net for34800:27:00.509 --> 00:27:04.259her. Yeah, so we're workingon that. Stephanie has connected her with34900:27:04.460 --> 00:27:10.900a post aboordive group and I amstaying in touch every single day. I35000:27:11.019 --> 00:27:15.259send her scripture first thing in themorning. She agreed to join my email35100:27:15.380 --> 00:27:18.890group. That is blind copied.So every single morning I know that she's35200:27:18.970 --> 00:27:22.529getting that. But then I alwayssend at least one or two other texts35300:27:22.569 --> 00:27:26.210throughout the day, just maybe ascripture that hips hits me or just saying35400:27:26.210 --> 00:27:33.799hey, how are you? Yeah, so that is really critical, I35500:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.000think, for us to remind everyonedon't give up, even though it seems35600:27:37.119 --> 00:27:42.720really depressing. Don't give up.Be there for any mom or woman,35700:27:42.759 --> 00:27:48.670or anyone really who is in thiskind of a desperate situation, because the35800:27:48.829 --> 00:27:56.029fact that you are fighting for themis is really important. Yeah, yeah,35900:27:56.029 --> 00:27:57.980absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, don'tshy away from the word of God,36000:27:59.140 --> 00:28:02.220don't shy word right away from thetruth of the Gospel, don't shy36100:28:02.220 --> 00:28:07.259away from the reality of sin.Yeah, and don't shy away from praying36200:28:07.980 --> 00:28:12.170to the Lord and put in thissituation in his hands, because ultimately he's36300:28:12.210 --> 00:28:15.250the one that's got to bring hiscomfort to them. Yeah, draw them36400:28:15.329 --> 00:28:18.089near to himself. Yeah, andagain, it's the power of the Gospel36500:28:18.210 --> 00:28:21.769is going to break that cycle ofsin that they're caught up in, that36600:28:21.849 --> 00:28:25.529cycle of depression that they're caught upin. But I think again, the36700:28:25.609 --> 00:28:30.400most powerful is the Gospel. Butthen beyond that is your presence, you36800:28:30.640 --> 00:28:34.079following up on a regular basis.I will say one thing to be super36900:28:34.240 --> 00:28:40.680aware of and to not do,because it can be a deal breaker,37000:28:41.589 --> 00:28:45.269is to breach trust. Yeah,and confidentiality. Yeah, like you did.37100:28:45.630 --> 00:28:49.710You asked first if you could sharewith Stephanie, right, and connector37200:28:49.750 --> 00:28:53.069with Stephanie, you got to askfirst, right, if you're going to37300:28:53.150 --> 00:28:56.779share, maybe you want people tobe praying for the situation. You certainly37400:28:56.819 --> 00:29:00.380would. Yeah, don't share anyspecifics, right, don't want to breach37500:29:00.460 --> 00:29:04.539confidential reality because that will break downthe conversation. I meily right find out,37600:29:06.299 --> 00:29:08.619and it can. It can actuallyadd to some of that depression.37700:29:08.700 --> 00:29:14.210It's suicidal thoughts. This idea thatthat buddies for me, the fact that37800:29:14.730 --> 00:29:18.009she knows that she's got you,Vicky, in her corner. Yeah,37900:29:18.170 --> 00:29:22.690and now, with your permission,you invited her to connect with Stephanie s38000:29:22.690 --> 00:29:25.200right, Stephanie in her corner.Right, the more people they get in38100:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.440their corner that they know are presentand that are for them, yeah,38200:29:29.640 --> 00:29:33.400the less likely are to go throughwith any suicidal right. And and I38300:29:33.519 --> 00:29:37.829do want to add one other thought, is you may not be successful in38400:29:37.950 --> 00:29:42.750terms of saving this life. Youmay not be, and you cannot take38500:29:42.869 --> 00:29:48.190that on yourself. That is notyour fault. Should this woman end up38600:29:48.230 --> 00:29:52.630committing suicide, I pray she doesand I don't think she will. But38700:29:52.380 --> 00:29:56.940in the same thing, we urgecounselors. You can't take the depth of38800:29:56.180 --> 00:30:00.460the aborted babies on your plate either. It's not your fault. We are38900:30:00.500 --> 00:30:04.700not responsible for the results, butwe are responsible for being faithful, in39000:30:04.819 --> 00:30:10.410obeying God and in doing what wecan and leave the results to God.39100:30:10.529 --> 00:30:14.569Yeah, yeah, Amen, yeah, that's good. Hopefully, guys,39200:30:14.650 --> 00:30:18.289this was a blessing. This wasencouraging to you. Guys. Some things39300:30:18.329 --> 00:30:21.559to dig into a little more.We have an article that you can check39400:30:21.599 --> 00:30:26.960out on the sidewalks for life websitein equipping articles. So this article will39500:30:26.960 --> 00:30:30.759be out around the same time thatthis podcast comes out. Also, when39600:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.079a key you guys into a resourcethat we created a couple of weeks ago.39700:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.990It's basically just a web page withall of our all of our gospel39800:30:38.029 --> 00:30:41.869center pro life epid episodes on itand a search feature where you can search39900:30:41.950 --> 00:30:48.430keywords, maybe like suicide, andit'll actually look at any of our episodes40000:30:48.509 --> 00:30:51.140that mention that word. It'll lookthrough the titles, but also through the40100:30:51.220 --> 00:30:56.819body of it, because it putsit out in a transcript. And so40200:30:56.180 --> 00:31:03.539use that feature, use that website, Gospel Centered prolifecom, and share this40300:31:03.660 --> 00:31:06.650episode with other people, share thepodcast if you think it will be a40400:31:06.690 --> 00:31:10.210blessing to others. Share it withthem shared on social media. Reach out40500:31:10.250 --> 00:31:11.609to us. You can reach me, Daniel at Love Life Dot Org.40600:31:11.690 --> 00:31:15.369You reach her, Vicky at LoveLife Dot Org. If you have questions40700:31:15.410 --> 00:31:18.759or comments subjects us like for usto cover. We'd love to hear from40800:31:18.799 --> 00:31:26.880you. And until next time,God bless capless Y'all our love for love.40900:31:30.599 --> 00:31:40.069Give me our love for gratitude.I know it will cost me my41000:31:40.390 --> 00:31:47.779life. Nothing's too precious, andsome that you