Nov. 26, 2020

Is Ectopic Pregnancy A Death Sentence?

Is Ectopic Pregnancy A Death Sentence?

Ectopic pregnancy situations are some of the most challenging cases we face at the abortion centers.  In this episode, we have a conversation with a veteran sidewalk counselor and survivor of an ectopic pregnancy, Lisa Metzger. She shares her...


Ectopic pregnancy situations are some of the most challenging cases we face at the abortion centers.  In this episode, we have a conversation with a veteran sidewalk counselor and survivor of an ectopic pregnancy, Lisa Metzger. She shares her experience as well as some helpful things that will equip us as pro-lifers to communicate to those who are facing an ectopic pregnancy.

http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/ectopic-personhood.html

https://ectopic.org.uk/about/publications/leaflet-expectant-management-of-ectopic-pregnancy/ 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:07.950 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord, 2 00:00:08.429 --> 00:00:12.550 I am yours. I welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. 3 00:00:12.789 --> 00:00:16.469 This episode we're going to talk about a pretty difficult subject, a topic pregnancy. 4 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.109 We think it's going to be an informative and helpful episode, so stay 5 00:00:20.190 --> 00:00:30.579 tuned. Send Me, Lord. I felt show passish, touch your heart. 6 00:00:33.020 --> 00:00:40.250 Use Me. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. Appreciate you 7 00:00:40.329 --> 00:00:43.570 guys listening and, as always, we appreciate if you guys would leave us 8 00:00:43.570 --> 00:00:46.850 a review on itunes. I know some folks have asked how to leave a 9 00:00:46.890 --> 00:00:51.119 review on itunes and you know, look it up, because it's actually not 10 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:54.280 easy, to be honest with you. If you go on Itunes, are 11 00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:58.079 you go on the apple PODCAST APP? It's not easy to find how to 12 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:00.479 leave a review. But actually, if you just scrow down to the very 13 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.479 bottom, as you're in our podcast, you can scroll down and you can 14 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:06.750 see how to leave a review. Five stars are great. We like five 15 00:01:06.790 --> 00:01:10.230 star reviews. They're fun and they might help counteract some of the one star 16 00:01:10.590 --> 00:01:15.670 reviews or some of the negative thousand star reviews that we've gotten over the past 17 00:01:15.670 --> 00:01:19.379 couple of months. Not from our normal get were not from our normal viewership 18 00:01:19.620 --> 00:01:23.900 but from some pretty nasty pro abortion people, which I hopefully in the next 19 00:01:23.939 --> 00:01:26.819 podcast will read some more of those reviews. I think it blessed people to 20 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:30.859 listen. They're in your fund reviews. They heart preying. But today we're 21 00:01:30.859 --> 00:01:34.170 going to cover a subject that I hope will be a blessing to you guys, 22 00:01:34.250 --> 00:01:37.209 and it's a question that a lot of pro life people have, a 23 00:01:37.290 --> 00:01:38.409 lot of people on the sidewalk. It's something you're going to run into, 24 00:01:38.409 --> 00:01:42.930 if you haven't in your ministry, on the sidewalk, you're going to run 25 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:47.400 into this. You probably already have, but it's the subject of ectopic pregnancy. 26 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:51.200 Now, right off bat we're going to make sure and let everybody know 27 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:55.959 we're not medical professionals. I'm not, Vicky is not and our guest, 28 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:59.879 Lisa is not a medical professional. So we're not giving medical advice. What 29 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:05.549 we're giving is just our experience. Lisa has experience in dealing with MOMS that 30 00:02:05.629 --> 00:02:09.629 have had ectopic pregnancies, but also experience in ectopic pregnancy herself. So she 31 00:02:09.830 --> 00:02:15.669 doing a speak from a unique perspective and we're also going to be referencing an 32 00:02:15.710 --> 00:02:20.580 article that I guess we'll put out in the show notes of the podcast, 33 00:02:20.780 --> 00:02:27.099 right, ectopic personhood from the personhood initiative, the personhood initiative. And yes, 34 00:02:27.219 --> 00:02:30.770 the name of the article is sectopic personhood. Yeah, and it's a 35 00:02:30.889 --> 00:02:34.889 real healthful article. So we're going to be referencing that article sum but we're 36 00:02:34.930 --> 00:02:39.409 going to talk really again around sidewalk counseling and dealing with the subject of ectopic 37 00:02:39.449 --> 00:02:44.090 pregnancy when you're talking to a mom who's going into an abortion center. And 38 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:47.479 we've had volunteers, Vicky, you mentioned before we started this podcast that one 39 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:52.159 of our newer volunteers. One of our questions on our volunteer application is you 40 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:57.120 think that there's any exceptions that make it okay for a mother to have an 41 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.990 abortion, and for the most part people say no, there's no exceptions. 42 00:03:00.030 --> 00:03:02.590 But this young lady, xte said Yeah, but only in the case of 43 00:03:02.669 --> 00:03:07.870 ectopic pregnancy, and the reality is that she didn't really understand all of the 44 00:03:07.990 --> 00:03:10.430 INS and out so this you were able to call and talk to her about 45 00:03:10.509 --> 00:03:14.060 this and so we're going to talk about some of that. But we also 46 00:03:14.180 --> 00:03:21.139 understand that even in within pro life ministries and with individuals. There's differing opinions 47 00:03:21.300 --> 00:03:25.219 and views on ectopic pregnancy and we're not going to pretend to solve all of 48 00:03:25.419 --> 00:03:31.930 that because it is a pretty actually difficult question to really try to just answer 49 00:03:32.050 --> 00:03:36.370 and here's, here's the exact answer to it. But I think we're going 50 00:03:36.370 --> 00:03:38.050 to give you, guys, at least some information that you can process, 51 00:03:38.129 --> 00:03:44.879 you can pray about and that will help you in dealing with moms who are 52 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:49.800 considering abortions because they've been told that they have an ectopic pregnancy. So that's 53 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:57.789 a long beginning to hopefully a good discussion about ectopic pregnancy. But, Lisa, 54 00:03:58.550 --> 00:04:01.949 real quick just introduce yourself and just so you folks know, Lisa has 55 00:04:01.990 --> 00:04:04.550 been involved on the sidewalk for a long time. She's going to share a 56 00:04:04.550 --> 00:04:09.229 little bit about that and she and her family were instrumental in starting cities for 57 00:04:09.349 --> 00:04:13.500 life back in two thousand and ten or before that. So but introduce yourself 58 00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:15.459 on your with your with your own terms. They're sure. My name is 59 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:26.129 Lisa metscer and I am a second generation sidewalk counselor. My parents brought me 60 00:04:26.170 --> 00:04:30.850 out at a very young age to the sidewalk to offer hope and help to 61 00:04:31.170 --> 00:04:34.529 a woman that was going into a board. So I've been at this a 62 00:04:34.970 --> 00:04:40.720 really long time and, as Daniel said, I helped mark and I helped 63 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.079 my husband mark and I helped with setting up cities for life and getting that 64 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:46.720 ball rolling there. So that was quite a privilege and then just to see 65 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:53.110 where it has gone. What is amazing we have fourteen children. Three of 66 00:04:53.149 --> 00:04:57.670 those children are adopted and we have a whole bunch of children in heaven because 67 00:04:57.709 --> 00:05:02.269 of miscarriage and one of those babies that we lost was an ectopic pregnancies. 68 00:05:02.430 --> 00:05:09.100 So yeahs can speak from experience coming from this. So yeah, and it 69 00:05:09.259 --> 00:05:14.620 was Lisa that got me involved and cities and cities for life and ultimately and 70 00:05:14.699 --> 00:05:19.220 sidewalk consulated and where where we are today. So I really appreciate Lisa. 71 00:05:19.819 --> 00:05:25.329 So she especially appreciate you coming on a you get get fourteen kids. Yeah, 72 00:05:25.569 --> 00:05:29.089 it's not easy to get away, yeah, from the House, I'm 73 00:05:29.089 --> 00:05:31.329 sure. I'm sure the opportunity to come and do a podcast here in the 74 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:36.920 office was maybe just opportunity that you seized and you get little skate time. 75 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:42.680 Yeah, we do appreciate you come and so I do want to so that 76 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:46.120 we don't go right into the issue of ectopic practice. We'll talk a little 77 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:48.560 bit about your experience because I think we'll just capitalize on this moment. I 78 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:54.910 said your second generation sidewalk counselors. So your parents were involved. WAS IT 79 00:05:54.990 --> 00:05:59.069 operation rest? And that's right. They started when operation rescue began and kind 80 00:05:59.069 --> 00:06:02.069 of went from there into different opportunities. Yeah, Rally for life, yeah, 81 00:06:02.149 --> 00:06:04.060 like that. So, yeah, yeah, and that was back in 82 00:06:04.100 --> 00:06:09.019 the s late S. I think we got involved, s early S. 83 00:06:09.259 --> 00:06:13.819 wow. Yeah, and then you got involved and then ultimately instrumental in starting 84 00:06:13.899 --> 00:06:16.139 cities for life. And now your kids, your daughter kids, are out 85 00:06:16.139 --> 00:06:19.769 there. Yeah, your daughter Caitlyn, who's what, she's twenty one and 86 00:06:19.769 --> 00:06:26.689 twenty one, is out there almost every Saturday minister and on our Saturday team, 87 00:06:26.730 --> 00:06:30.370 and she's just a tremendous blessing. So there's like three generations and we 88 00:06:30.410 --> 00:06:32.879 should do a podcast about that. Yeah, it the generation of yeah, 89 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:35.519 actually, I do want to do a podcast. Maybe you guys watch out 90 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:40.079 for that one about being raised in the pro life movement. Maybe I'll get 91 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.160 Kaitlyn. What do you think? Yes, my well, yeah, because 92 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:45.759 I think that is a unique perspective. But yeah, I wanted to touch 93 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:49.589 on that and just again give you guys your family props for for what you 94 00:06:49.750 --> 00:06:55.189 did in starting cities for life and ultimately is led to love life. Love 95 00:06:55.269 --> 00:06:58.829 life sort of sprung out of cities for life in one sense, and then 96 00:06:59.029 --> 00:07:02.180 now love life is just going nationwide and we're seeing God. Yeah, we're 97 00:07:02.180 --> 00:07:06.779 seeing God raise up people all over the the United States, all over the 98 00:07:06.860 --> 00:07:11.660 world, and I find myself, actually, and I know you do too, 99 00:07:11.740 --> 00:07:17.089 Vicki referencing things back to to the og crowd, dude, to Liza 100 00:07:17.529 --> 00:07:21.129 and to Janette, the Wilson family, to the Bendoms and just those who 101 00:07:21.170 --> 00:07:26.449 originally started some of the things that you guys put together. And I think 102 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:29.769 maybe even this person, person, I think it is article right, it 103 00:07:29.850 --> 00:07:32.639 was from them. Yeah, it's guy found and put it out. Yeah, 104 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:35.600 so that all of our sidewalk counselors can be informed about this. So 105 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:42.519 we do appreciate you. So let's let's talk about the issue of ectopic pregnancy. 106 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:46.110 Yeah, first and foremost, what are we even talking about? What 107 00:07:46.149 --> 00:07:47.709 does this mean? Some people may not even know what this term means. 108 00:07:47.709 --> 00:07:51.949 Right. So let's let lea say yeah, define define what what that is. 109 00:07:53.149 --> 00:07:57.949 extopic pregnancy is a child that has been conceived, is already growing, 110 00:07:58.069 --> 00:08:01.740 but has implanted in somewhere other than the uterus. So that can be the 111 00:08:01.860 --> 00:08:05.540 Philippian Tube, that can be the abdominal cavity, that can be in the 112 00:08:07.180 --> 00:08:11.420 in the ovary itself. So it's anything outside the uterus. Yeah, okay, 113 00:08:11.860 --> 00:08:16.209 and often times, more often than anywhere else, it's actually the in 114 00:08:16.290 --> 00:08:20.449 Filopian Tobe. Correct, although I've encountered situations. I had one, this 115 00:08:20.569 --> 00:08:24.050 is probably you and a half or so ago, where a young man came 116 00:08:24.089 --> 00:08:26.279 over and told me his wife had an ectopic pregnancy. It was a cervical 117 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:33.200 pregnancy. Yeah, which is pretty, pretty dangerous. So there are other 118 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:37.279 ectopic pregnancies, but if you encounter any of is a small portion of pregnancies 119 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:43.070 that are ectopic, but the larger portion of that small portion are in the 120 00:08:43.149 --> 00:08:46.029 Pelopian tube. So that's mainly we're going to be talking about, although there 121 00:08:46.070 --> 00:08:50.350 are other places where a baby could be placed. So and of course the 122 00:08:50.429 --> 00:08:56.100 danger is that the Floppian tube and all those other places except the if they 123 00:08:56.340 --> 00:09:01.019 somehow get into the abdomen, they there isn't room to expand with that without 124 00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:05.940 that part of your body bursting, right, and then the resultant hemorrhaching. 125 00:09:07.100 --> 00:09:11.769 Is is the issue, right. So I don't know about what you knew 126 00:09:11.009 --> 00:09:16.809 prior to you becoming a mother, but my understanding of ectopic pregnancy before reading 127 00:09:16.889 --> 00:09:22.450 this article was that this was not only a death sentence for the mother, 128 00:09:22.889 --> 00:09:28.000 but a death sentence for the baby. So of course the abortion almost sounds 129 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:31.639 reasonable, right, or does sound reasonable, if that's what you truly believe? 130 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:37.240 They're both going to die, so at least save one, which would 131 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:43.070 which would be the mother. So tell us about maybe just to kind of 132 00:09:43.149 --> 00:09:50.710 help us to understand what it is from a very personal experience to face an 133 00:09:50.750 --> 00:09:54.139 ectopic pregnancy, what you went through, what you did, and and then 134 00:09:54.179 --> 00:09:58.259 we'll go from there maybe to talk about some of the research that in this 135 00:09:58.500 --> 00:10:05.820 personhood initiative article. That is really very eye opening, right. Yeah, 136 00:10:05.899 --> 00:10:09.610 well, this was back in two thousand and six when I found out I 137 00:10:09.690 --> 00:10:16.250 was pregnant. I was kind of surprised by it actually, because I had 138 00:10:16.289 --> 00:10:22.360 had two cycles before where I was pregnant but didn't know it until after that 139 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:24.639 at that second cycle. So it took me by surprised. I was shocked 140 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:28.799 at the location of the baby. I'd actually had some pain. So I 141 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:31.679 went into my obe. They did an ultrasound and they told me that the 142 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.990 baby was growing in still had a heartbeat in the tube, in my Philippian 143 00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:39.870 Tube. So how far along were you at that point? That was about 144 00:10:39.870 --> 00:10:45.230 eight weeks. Wow. Yeah, so that was a little bit scary. 145 00:10:45.309 --> 00:10:48.710 They were going to go in and they offered me two different options. They 146 00:10:48.750 --> 00:10:52.659 said surgery, which would probably be the better of the two options, given 147 00:10:52.659 --> 00:10:54.700 the size of the baby. So they said surgery where they could either try 148 00:10:54.700 --> 00:10:58.620 to remove the baby from the tube or remove the tube completely, or to 149 00:10:58.820 --> 00:11:03.700 give me a drug called at the truck sate. So I know immediately I 150 00:11:03.820 --> 00:11:07.049 didn't, you know, coming from that pro life background, that did not 151 00:11:07.169 --> 00:11:11.889 sit well, did did they? Did they think that there was any way 152 00:11:11.049 --> 00:11:16.570 like, did they ever mention anything, transplant, you know, anything to 153 00:11:16.690 --> 00:11:20.559 give you any hope? Or was it just the baby must be killed in 154 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:22.240 order to stay here? Yes, yes, the baby, you know, 155 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:26.600 needed was going to die. Is What they told me. Yeah, or 156 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:28.720 I could die from, you know, my tube rupturing right, which they 157 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:33.029 said could be any moment, and it's a scary place to be but I 158 00:11:33.070 --> 00:11:35.029 knew, because of my background, I knew, because of what I knew 159 00:11:35.029 --> 00:11:39.629 about the Lord and what he said about giving and taking life, that that 160 00:11:39.830 --> 00:11:45.429 wasn't in my my control. I didn't want to take control over ending someone 161 00:11:45.429 --> 00:11:50.299 else's life, and so I told the doctor that, and I don't think 162 00:11:50.299 --> 00:11:54.659 it came to a surprise to my doctor. They kind of knew exactly where 163 00:11:54.659 --> 00:11:58.379 I stood. They said, well, there is this other method of dealing 164 00:11:58.460 --> 00:12:03.850 with a Tu bullock topic pregnancy, and that is called expectant management. I 165 00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:07.769 had never heard of this. Right, I didn't know a whole lot about 166 00:12:07.769 --> 00:12:11.970 a topic pregnancy, but I knew enough to know that those were probably going 167 00:12:13.009 --> 00:12:15.370 to be the only two option. I was given the surgery in the method, 168 00:12:15.409 --> 00:12:18.519 truck say, and I said No. So they gave me this other 169 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:20.440 option. They said, listen, we'll take your HCG levels, the baby 170 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:26.240 probably won't survive, will do repeat ultrasound. You go home, beyond Bedrest, 171 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.470 lie down, see what happens, and I obviously opted for that, 172 00:12:31.429 --> 00:12:37.070 knowing what I knew and having the convictions I had, and I went home 173 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:41.110 and waited it out. I went for repeat testing and by that point the 174 00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:48.259 baby had passed so I rested fully and knowing that I had done everything I 175 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:54.779 could do for that baby and that I had chosen something that I could live 176 00:12:54.820 --> 00:13:00.649 with, where I could not have lived with choosing to have my baby forcibly 177 00:13:00.809 --> 00:13:05.809 removed or its life supply ended. Yeah, you know, at my choice. 178 00:13:05.129 --> 00:13:09.809 How long was it from the point that you were told that you had 179 00:13:09.850 --> 00:13:13.679 an eck topic pregnancy to the point at which the baby had died? It 180 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.799 was actually only a couple days. After only a couple of days. Do 181 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:18.120 you know, and I don't know off hand, I don't mean to put 182 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.240 you on the spot, but do you know how often that happens, that 183 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:28.190 the baby does indeed die? It's it's pretty often because the baby's constricted, 184 00:13:28.909 --> 00:13:31.990 and I think it actually says in that personhood article right there about that. 185 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:35.629 Yeah, the statistics. Okay, so maybe we'll find that later. Is 186 00:13:35.789 --> 00:13:41.820 this we go through that? So did you have to have then surgery to 187 00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:45.220 have the baby removed? Is that a point to which can the baby passed? 188 00:13:45.259 --> 00:13:48.980 Naturally, they told me that it would probably be reabsorbed, and so, 189 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:52.460 as far as I know, that's what happened. Okay, okay, 190 00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:58.169 so your tubes never ruptured, never had to rupture. Okay, all right, 191 00:13:58.490 --> 00:14:00.490 and I was told what to do when they sent me home. You 192 00:14:00.529 --> 00:14:03.889 know if I showed signs of rupture, what I should do. Okay, 193 00:14:03.090 --> 00:14:09.929 and that's the important kind of point to this whole method is they're watching over, 194 00:14:09.970 --> 00:14:13.240 they're keeping a close eye. So it's called expectant management management, so 195 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:20.240 they're making sure that you're okay. They're kind of a wait and see option 196 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:26.389 here and again. The point is that you don't want to intentionally take the 197 00:14:26.470 --> 00:14:28.110 life of your child, knowing what you know now, I do want to 198 00:14:28.110 --> 00:14:31.950 say this for people who have dealt with this. Maybe there's people that are 199 00:14:31.990 --> 00:14:35.149 listening that have dealt with this, that have had a topic pregnancy, went 200 00:14:35.230 --> 00:14:39.860 to the doctor, the doctor recommended this and that you could be in a 201 00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:45.019 position sometimes, especially when you're already kind of scared and shaken, to make 202 00:14:45.299 --> 00:14:50.340 a really rash decision. And doctors a lot of times are risk adverse and 203 00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:54.049 so they're going to take the path of least resistance and, especially if they're 204 00:14:54.049 --> 00:14:58.090 not pro life doctors, they're gonna just okay, well, when in doubt, 205 00:14:58.409 --> 00:15:01.570 they get out. And so maybe there's people that are listening that you 206 00:15:01.649 --> 00:15:03.850 kind of took that option. We don't, we want, don't want to 207 00:15:03.850 --> 00:15:07.240 bring any condemnation, any guilt and say that you, Lisa is better than 208 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.600 you or or anything like that. No, thank God she dug a little 209 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.960 deeper and they talked about this expected management and you know, it didn't work 210 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.950 out good for the child, but it did work out good for you and 211 00:15:22.350 --> 00:15:26.309 you don't have the guilt of of knowing that you intentionally did that. Those 212 00:15:26.309 --> 00:15:30.710 again, who are listening who maybe you don't know what you don't know, 213 00:15:31.269 --> 00:15:33.269 as if you didn't know this was an option, then how are you going 214 00:15:33.309 --> 00:15:37.620 to be able to access that option? However, now you know, and 215 00:15:37.779 --> 00:15:41.299 even talking to a mom to kind of bring it around to really what we 216 00:15:41.419 --> 00:15:45.220 want is to help, encourage side well counselors, to help a mom who's 217 00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:50.370 telling you she has ecked topic pregnancy to know that there's another option available to 218 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:52.690 her, that she don't have to intentionally take the life for a child. 219 00:15:52.850 --> 00:15:56.570 She can kind of let, for lack of a bitter term, nature take 220 00:15:56.610 --> 00:16:00.330 its course or whatever. Is a way that you can talk to a mom 221 00:16:00.730 --> 00:16:04.120 in front of an abortion center about the issue of eck topic pregnancy and at 222 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:07.759 least to get a second opinion, I mean because the I don't think women 223 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.840 understand. You know that there is this and this is why I speak about 224 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.679 it, because I know people that have personally gone through a topic. Pregnancy 225 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.840 is chose one of the options given to them and they deal with that guilt. 226 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:19.230 Well, I would just want people to know that there is another option 227 00:16:19.389 --> 00:16:22.789 that's not talked about a whole lot. Right, right. So talk a 228 00:16:22.830 --> 00:16:26.909 little bit about that, because I'm sure you you have thought about this, 229 00:16:26.149 --> 00:16:32.350 that if there is an exception for abortion for the if the life of the 230 00:16:32.509 --> 00:16:38.379 mother is in danger, what is that the really saying about the value of 231 00:16:38.539 --> 00:16:41.460 that child? So exactly? Well, I look at any of my other 232 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:45.179 children and which is more important? My life or my child's life? You 233 00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:48.370 know, my two year old. You know which life is more important either. 234 00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:52.450 There of equal value and I think God's eyes, and that's how we 235 00:16:52.529 --> 00:16:55.409 have to look at anything. No matter where that child is located, that 236 00:16:55.570 --> 00:17:00.720 doesn't determine value. That child is still valuable no matter where it is growing 237 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:07.480 currently. Yeah, so, any of these exceptions, then it's important, 238 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.279 I think, for us a side walk counselors, to speak about that. 239 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:17.349 That there is the tacit admission than that that unborn baby is somehow of less 240 00:17:17.430 --> 00:17:22.349 value and that's not biblical. Yes, so and it and it fuels. 241 00:17:22.630 --> 00:17:26.589 I think what happened in the issue of how to manage a topic pregnancy. 242 00:17:27.230 --> 00:17:33.380 So one of the things that this article brought out is, first of all, 243 00:17:34.339 --> 00:17:38.019 is it a death sentence? Because I think we all thought it. 244 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:41.339 I did. We thought it was. It was a death sentence for the 245 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:45.650 MOM. No, it was not a death sentence for you. Correct it. 246 00:17:45.049 --> 00:17:48.490 The MOM can die. I don't want to say she can't, but 247 00:17:48.890 --> 00:17:56.569 there is certainly research in in this article that demonstrates that that is not necessarily 248 00:17:56.609 --> 00:18:00.799 the case. That they they and the the research is a little bit like 249 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:10.480 convoluted and and hard for me to summarize easily, but kind of in in 250 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:15.430 summary, one of the studies showed that in at least ninety nine point six 251 00:18:15.710 --> 00:18:22.230 of all the ruptured ectopic pregnancies in a study in southern Israel, they did 252 00:18:22.430 --> 00:18:29.380 not result in the death of the mom. That's that's a pretty high success 253 00:18:29.539 --> 00:18:36.019 rate. And and they I think in a lot of these cases successes more 254 00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:41.849 pronounced and likely in the case of expectant management. What you did, and 255 00:18:42.130 --> 00:18:47.490 now auto transfusion, and I thought you had gone through that, but I 256 00:18:47.569 --> 00:18:49.890 guess I was. You know, I did not. Okay, that is 257 00:18:51.049 --> 00:18:52.569 and for auto transfusion. For this, why don't understand what it is? 258 00:18:52.730 --> 00:18:56.680 Is when the tube has ruptured and blood has flowed into the abdominal cavity, 259 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:02.200 there are actually methods where they can take that blood out and re an inserted 260 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.759 into the mother so that she's not bleeding to death. She's having her same 261 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:11.190 blood put back through. Right system. Right. So, so the the 262 00:19:11.349 --> 00:19:15.869 idea that it is a death sentence for the mother is is not. scessarely 263 00:19:17.029 --> 00:19:18.789 true. It's not true. The researchs and there is and you can go 264 00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:22.950 through this all all of you people listening later, later on, because we 265 00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:27.539 will post this article. But then the second point that is often made is, 266 00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:33.380 okay, it's not necessarily that the mom will die, but what about 267 00:19:33.380 --> 00:19:38.130 the baby? Babies don't survive egg topic pregnancy. So why put the mother 268 00:19:38.329 --> 00:19:44.650 through risk for the death sentence of the baby? Exactly? How do you 269 00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:45.970 read? Can you talk a little bit of I can speak to that. 270 00:19:47.009 --> 00:19:49.849 Actually, I have a good friend, her name is recy and she was 271 00:19:49.890 --> 00:19:56.440 an ectopic pregnancy. Oh, and she was actually she implanted in her mother's 272 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.160 Tube and right at the end, right before you know, the tube leads 273 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.920 to the to the uterus, and her mother wasn't clear, encourage to Aboord 274 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.710 and heavily pressured and she said no, I cannot do it, it is 275 00:20:07.710 --> 00:20:11.029 against my conscience, I cannot take the drugs, I cannot do the surgery. 276 00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:17.549 Wow, she waited and that baby migrated, which does happen. The 277 00:20:17.589 --> 00:20:21.430 placent of migrates during pregnancy. That baby migrated to the uterus and that is 278 00:20:21.500 --> 00:20:25.460 now my friend who's, you know, forty something years old and alive and 279 00:20:25.539 --> 00:20:29.099 well and has children and, you know, amazing things. God is done 280 00:20:29.140 --> 00:20:32.980 because her mom plays her trust in Jesus instead of the medical doctors. That 281 00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:37.329 such an awesome story and that and and that's what the research chose, is 282 00:20:37.410 --> 00:20:44.289 that the baby has an amazing ability to transplant itself somewhere else. And there 283 00:20:44.410 --> 00:20:48.970 there was one case described in this article of a baby that the tube actually 284 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:56.759 rup shirt. The MOM survived, I assume, through transfusion. The baby 285 00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:03.750 migrated into the abdomen and grew for nine months and was delivered healthy by Cesarean 286 00:21:03.829 --> 00:21:10.230 section, healthy full term child that grew in the abdomen. Yeah, there's 287 00:21:10.269 --> 00:21:12.190 been. There is one, at least one recorded case of a baby that 288 00:21:12.269 --> 00:21:15.269 grew the full nine months. Well, no, I'm not sure was the 289 00:21:15.309 --> 00:21:18.539 full nine months, but to the point of where they could take the baby 290 00:21:18.619 --> 00:21:22.259 out safely in the tube, right in the tube, and the tube did 291 00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:30.539 not rupture. So it kind of begs the question then of if, if 292 00:21:30.619 --> 00:21:37.609 the baby can transplant itself, why aren't Doctors Tread? We could make it 293 00:21:37.730 --> 00:21:45.730 to the moon. Why aren't we transplanting babies from the tube into the uter 294 00:21:45.930 --> 00:21:48.559 and you have to realize it's a culture of death and that life, that 295 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.960 little life, is not important, that life is expendable and that's not God's 296 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.440 way. Yeah, absolutely, it's one of the reasons why we're having this 297 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:02.950 conversation is because we want this, we want to season this culture with the 298 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:07.190 value of human life, because the more and more we are quote progress as 299 00:22:07.230 --> 00:22:11.630 a culture, it seems, the more and more we devalue human lives. 300 00:22:11.190 --> 00:22:17.059 So we've really not progressed, we've regressed. We've not gone the way that 301 00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:19.180 the Lord had wanted us to go in and medical community, as that's the 302 00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:22.900 same way I mean in this article, which you're probably going to touch on. 303 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:27.700 There have been cases where doctors successfully, in what nineteen twenty something? 304 00:22:27.779 --> 00:22:33.970 Yeah, in nineteen seventeen, a doctor success. Nineteen seventeen, I mean 305 00:22:33.009 --> 00:22:40.769 that's a hundred years ago. A doctor successfully transplanted a baby from the Philippian 306 00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:45.440 tube to the uterus and that baby was born healthy and fine, I believe, 307 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:51.200 by c section nine months later. And that a hundred years ago. 308 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:56.279 Why has and he thought this is the start of the whole new wave of 309 00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.750 how to deal with what was once a death sentence, they thought was a 310 00:23:00.910 --> 00:23:04.509 death sentence. So why didn't that happen? So what is what else is 311 00:23:04.589 --> 00:23:08.069 happening in like the nineteen twenties? WHO's coming on the scene, having right 312 00:23:08.150 --> 00:23:11.789 and then there's a guy by the name of Adolf Hitler Film, but also 313 00:23:11.829 --> 00:23:15.099 you have Margaret Singer exactly on the scene, and you really have this this 314 00:23:15.259 --> 00:23:18.940 chipping away of the value of human life. And that's why we, as 315 00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:22.539 those who are believers in Jesus, and because we're believers in Jesus, we 316 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:26.099 believe in the value of human life, that we have to uphold this standard, 317 00:23:26.170 --> 00:23:30.450 that we can't just be Willy Nilly and understand again that there's differing opinions, 318 00:23:30.890 --> 00:23:34.730 and even within the pro life medical community, about a topic pregnancy and 319 00:23:34.849 --> 00:23:37.690 how you deal with that. Understand that, but it can't just be a 320 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:41.359 light and kind of glib thing. Oh yeah, actopic pregnancy, then we've 321 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.759 got to do to these other methods where we know the baby ultimately has to 322 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:51.119 be intentionally killed. Though, if we're going to hang on to this value 323 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.920 of human life and uphold the standard of God, we need to be very 324 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:59.230 careful in the way that we approach any subject that has to do with human 325 00:23:59.269 --> 00:24:02.589 life, even getting into the realm of like you know, and not the 326 00:24:02.630 --> 00:24:06.589 rabbit trail, but assisted suicide and stuff like that. There's even Christians that 327 00:24:06.670 --> 00:24:10.180 are toying with the idea that this might be a moral thing to allow people 328 00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:14.779 to be assisted in suicides. Again, it's a chipping away of the value 329 00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:17.740 of human life. And whereas you had a doctor one thousand nine hundred and 330 00:24:17.740 --> 00:24:22.740 seventeen that was willing to take the risk and to do this procedure and ultimately 331 00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:26.049 with good results, now you've got doctors now that are not even willing to 332 00:24:26.089 --> 00:24:30.529 consider what you're even talking about, which is expectant management, and so really 333 00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:33.410 is again, if we're going to uphold this standard, we need to stand 334 00:24:33.529 --> 00:24:37.849 firm, and that's why it's helpful to have articles like this and to have 335 00:24:37.009 --> 00:24:40.640 podcasts like this. They're encouraging you to do that and so that you can 336 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:42.759 be well informed, because a lot of Christians have no clue about some of 337 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.440 the stuff that we're talking about. Right. What did you face when, 338 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.559 when you're talking to your doctor's, your family, your friends, your husband 339 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:55.630 and you're saying this is my decision, was there in overwhelming support for a 340 00:24:56.309 --> 00:25:00.589 decision to follow that approach, or was there still pressure? You're going to 341 00:25:00.710 --> 00:25:03.910 die, Les, we don't want you to die, we'd love you. 342 00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:08.940 I have such a supportive family and they're all followers of Jesus. So because 343 00:25:10.019 --> 00:25:14.339 of that, they supported me and affirming life and not killing my baby. 344 00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:17.779 Yeah, so thankfully I had that support, but had I not had that 345 00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:21.380 support, I still would have stood my ground and one what I knew I 346 00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:23.170 needed to do in God's eyes. So can you imagine? What do you 347 00:25:23.210 --> 00:25:27.769 think is happening to the MOM's in feeling out a present a very strong abortion 348 00:25:27.890 --> 00:25:32.450 minded culture? Yes, they're feeling a lot of pressure. So, yeah, 349 00:25:32.490 --> 00:25:34.170 we need to be there to support them and to educate them and things 350 00:25:34.210 --> 00:25:37.279 like this. Does that? Yeah, do we do? We know of 351 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:42.759 pro life doctors who are aware of expectant management and our supportive and we have 352 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.839 some locally that are aware of that. And, yeah, who would institute 353 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.400 that? Are they hard to find? They are hard to find. Yeah, 354 00:25:49.109 --> 00:25:52.789 and you might like, like I said, they never gave me that 355 00:25:52.869 --> 00:25:55.750 option. I had to push back on the other two options that I was 356 00:25:55.829 --> 00:26:00.869 given in order to learn about expectant management. So if you're ever faced with 357 00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:03.500 this, guys, you need to to know that it is an option and 358 00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:08.220 you need to press your doctor for that, you know, for that option 359 00:26:08.299 --> 00:26:11.500 to be given to you. So at least information, yes, and then, 360 00:26:11.539 --> 00:26:14.980 if they don't give it, go to another doctor. Yeah, until 361 00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:18.769 you find someone that's one to support you and your conduction's right. I think 362 00:26:18.849 --> 00:26:22.170 one of the points here in any especially this, but any of the kind 363 00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:27.809 of high risk, difficult situations, and we train our sidewalk counselors in the 364 00:26:27.849 --> 00:26:32.920 subwalk missionaries that were bringing into Charlotte to deal with the hard cases, in 365 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:37.640 any of these hard cases, especially again the medical ones or, you know, 366 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.599 fetal diagnosis, like you know of Down Syndrome, or whatever. We're 367 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.880 always encouraging a second opinion. Yes, and with this especially, it's like 368 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.869 will get a second opinion because we've had situations where we've had moms that were 369 00:26:49.950 --> 00:26:55.390 sent by their ob doctor to the abortion clinic, and that happens a lot, 370 00:26:55.670 --> 00:26:59.750 guys. It happens a lot where doctors will send them mom to an 371 00:26:59.750 --> 00:27:02.460 abortion clinic because it's a lot cheaper, I mean, let's face it, 372 00:27:03.339 --> 00:27:04.940 to go to the hospital and have all that. You know, if even 373 00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:10.420 if they're having we've had doctor send a woman who they said was miscarrying to 374 00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:12.539 the abortion center rather than they're going to the hospital and have a DNC. 375 00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:17.849 She could have a DNC at the abortion clinic here for like four hundred dollars. 376 00:27:18.569 --> 00:27:21.369 And I remember one young lady she drove all the way from Virginia to 377 00:27:21.450 --> 00:27:25.170 come here was told by her doctor that she was miscarrying, her babies already 378 00:27:25.170 --> 00:27:27.250 dead. Thank God we got her on the mobile unit and she ended up 379 00:27:27.529 --> 00:27:32.599 seeing that her baby was actually alive and she left not having killed her child. 380 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.000 Doctors are wrong sometimes, doctors sometimes, I'm not saying all doctors or 381 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.119 even most doctors, some, some doctors have a genda's too, and we 382 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.950 need to be careful for that. And, you know, opening up the 383 00:27:45.990 --> 00:27:48.509 door to a second opinion it like it can't hurt right to be able to 384 00:27:48.549 --> 00:27:55.750 at least have a second opinion, because there is guilt associated with having abortions, 385 00:27:55.789 --> 00:27:57.980 whether or not our culture says that's true or not, it's a reality. 386 00:27:59.019 --> 00:28:03.740 Yeah, was your doctor concerned it all about a lawsuit? I think 387 00:28:03.819 --> 00:28:07.940 so. I think most doctors are right, because that's immediately why they're going 388 00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:10.259 to go for the quick facts. Let's get it done, that we're not 389 00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:12.690 facing the risks. I've expectant management, because there are risks involved. If 390 00:28:12.730 --> 00:28:17.130 something were to happen right, husband could turn around and see them right. 391 00:28:17.289 --> 00:28:21.450 So I always encourage people, if you're serious about this, and your doctors 392 00:28:21.490 --> 00:28:23.650 at all hesitant, assure them a lawsuit's not going to happen. Is something 393 00:28:23.690 --> 00:28:27.039 where to happen to me right, right, and in this article it talks 394 00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:34.680 about that. It is part of the medical I don't know if insurance policy 395 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:41.119 whatever that a doctor, if he has two patients, he is not expected 396 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:45.549 to give equal time and treatment to both patients. He's he's expected to do 397 00:28:45.750 --> 00:28:49.470 whatever he needs to do to prioritize to save the patient he's most likely to 398 00:28:49.549 --> 00:28:55.430 save if he's going to lose one tree and he is not suit. He 399 00:28:55.589 --> 00:29:00.099 is not suitabowl. I don't know what you know liable for maybe the the 400 00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:03.859 fact that one patient died because he had to attend to the needs of the 401 00:29:03.940 --> 00:29:08.460 other. So doctors are really looking at two patients when they're looking at a 402 00:29:08.900 --> 00:29:15.569 a mom with a PC topic pregnancy. But they're not really. Most doctors 403 00:29:15.609 --> 00:29:19.490 are not viewing it that way. They're looking at the MOM. is their 404 00:29:19.529 --> 00:29:26.119 patient. So what does that say about what they're viewing exactly? The the 405 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:32.480 baby as right and obviously not a person, not a person, which is 406 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:37.200 why this is the personhood initiative, because this really does change the kind of 407 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:44.990 the whole scope of of the discussion exactly. So can you talk about some 408 00:29:45.190 --> 00:29:52.339 of the strengthening biblical you know, support that that you found during that time? 409 00:29:52.339 --> 00:29:56.700 I'm sure it was still a hard it was it was scary days or 410 00:29:56.740 --> 00:29:59.460 whatever, and frightening. Yes, it was scary, but I mean you 411 00:29:59.539 --> 00:30:02.339 just got to go back to scripture and ask yourself, what would God have 412 00:30:02.500 --> 00:30:04.460 me to do? Well, he's very clear. Thou shalt not kill there's 413 00:30:04.500 --> 00:30:08.890 no IFANS or butts. So that was the primary foundation for making the decision. 414 00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:12.130 IDEA. But some comforting things, you know that I found particularly. 415 00:30:12.329 --> 00:30:15.410 Psalm thousand, one hundred and fifteen says my time is in your hands. 416 00:30:17.049 --> 00:30:19.730 So the Lord has our days numbered and we have to trust in him that, 417 00:30:19.890 --> 00:30:25.000 because we are his child and because he aren't, days are already numbered. 418 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:27.680 We're exactly where God would have is to be. Yeah, now, 419 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:30.920 if we step outside of that and we commit murder, we allow someone to 420 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:37.589 take that baby too early, then those days might be numbered less than they 421 00:30:37.630 --> 00:30:41.910 should have been. Right. So, why put yourself at risk? The 422 00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:44.430 safest place to be is in the middle of God's will. Yeah, so, 423 00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:49.579 and you weren't making a thoughtless or foolish decision either. You had scriptural 424 00:30:49.619 --> 00:30:56.259 support, but you also had researched. You knew some of what you could 425 00:30:56.299 --> 00:31:00.500 suggest to the doctor. Right, you are armed with knowledge, right arm, 426 00:31:00.579 --> 00:31:03.490 and that's so key to know, and that's why I like to speak 427 00:31:03.490 --> 00:31:07.450 about it. You know to others that they are armed at there ever, 428 00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:11.650 based with with something like this. Yeah, and you've had other high risk 429 00:31:11.730 --> 00:31:15.650 pregnancies having right right. Yeah, I do have. You've dealt with a 430 00:31:15.089 --> 00:31:19.680 lot. So you could speak knowledgeably about this whole exception of the life of 431 00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:23.680 a mother. Right, my life is of equal worth in God's eyes as 432 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:27.559 my baby's. So, yeah, I'mborn or born. So yeah, always 433 00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:32.319 let the Lord have control of that and he'll guide you. He'll you know, 434 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:33.630 you're safest in the palm of his hand, right there in the middle 435 00:31:33.630 --> 00:31:40.630 of his well. So right, Amen. Yeah, we certainly practice what 436 00:31:40.710 --> 00:31:47.859 you preach and we should, and I think this conversation will help others to 437 00:31:48.140 --> 00:31:52.180 continue to just uphold the value of human life, because it can create some 438 00:31:52.420 --> 00:31:57.819 some dilemmas in our minds when we start to kind of chip away that value 439 00:31:57.859 --> 00:32:00.730 of human life and we start to leave exceptions. I mean, the reality 440 00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:05.609 is that Rovy Wade back in one thousand nine hundred and seventy three was based 441 00:32:05.690 --> 00:32:08.809 solely on the exceptions, the things that a lot of people that would say 442 00:32:08.809 --> 00:32:15.170 even that their pro life would leave his exceptions for abortions. But if it 443 00:32:15.210 --> 00:32:20.400 less than one percent, yeah, I'm all the reason for abortion, these 444 00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:22.799 these exceptions. Yeah, yeah, so, rape in sastright health of the 445 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:30.029 mother. Right, those are the things that open the floodgates of ultimately nationwide 446 00:32:30.029 --> 00:32:36.150 child sacrifice at these abortion centers. And so, as pro lifers, as 447 00:32:36.230 --> 00:32:39.470 people that believe, as Christians that believe that human life has value, those 448 00:32:39.509 --> 00:32:44.460 exceptions can't be can't be something that we stand on, something that we allow. 449 00:32:44.500 --> 00:32:47.859 We have to uphold the standard of truth that God is in charge, 450 00:32:47.859 --> 00:32:52.259 he is the one that holds life and death in his hands and we as 451 00:32:52.259 --> 00:32:55.299 a society don't have a right to take the innocent lives of children, even 452 00:32:55.339 --> 00:33:01.490 if there's some extenuating circumstances. Just dealing quickly with the issue of rape, 453 00:33:02.009 --> 00:33:07.089 because that is probably the BIS biggest exception that we hear. You know, 454 00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:09.849 I was raped, so therefore it's okay. But a child who's WHO's the 455 00:33:09.930 --> 00:33:14.880 result of rape is no different than a child who's not. If I were 456 00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:16.559 to show you a baby in the womb that was the result of wet rape 457 00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:20.640 and a baby in the womb that was not, you would see no difference. 458 00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.480 And in the same way, a baby that's conceived and ends up and 459 00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.710 actopic pregnancy situation is no less valuable than a baby that's in the uterus. 460 00:33:28.750 --> 00:33:31.910 Your location does not determine your value. Yes, again, it's a difficult 461 00:33:31.950 --> 00:33:37.390 situation, but we need to approach that situation from a Biblical and God honoring 462 00:33:37.430 --> 00:33:43.339 perspective and I believe what you've shared is has been just that. Yeah, 463 00:33:43.660 --> 00:33:45.980 can I ask you, just because as he was talking, I was thinking 464 00:33:46.059 --> 00:33:52.420 back to your experience and you had just a couple of days and that before 465 00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:55.970 you knew that your child had died. But in in the case of a 466 00:33:57.089 --> 00:34:02.170 mom whose child is still growing in the tube, what do they tell you, 467 00:34:02.410 --> 00:34:05.250 because I'm sure they did tell you, what do you look for? 468 00:34:05.609 --> 00:34:10.079 What do you in your expectant management? What sorts of things are you to 469 00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:15.119 be aware of to protect yourself and to know when to call the doctor, 470 00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:19.440 when it rout, to go to the Yar whatever? Well, you're being 471 00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:22.599 pretty closely monitored. So they're taking your HCG levels every other day. If 472 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:28.510 they're dropping, obviously the baby is in the process of dying, if or 473 00:34:28.670 --> 00:34:31.630 is already gone. If but if they're climbing, of course the baby's growing. 474 00:34:31.750 --> 00:34:35.070 That determines a lot of things right there as to what they'll tell you 475 00:34:35.110 --> 00:34:38.500 to look for. But bleeding would be a major thing. increase pain and 476 00:34:38.699 --> 00:34:43.940 cramping would be something to look forward to. Our look for and then they 477 00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:45.900 would instruct you to go to the emergency room at that point. So how 478 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:50.619 much time do you have, say when these symptoms says they're accelerate? It 479 00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:53.610 depends at what, you know, how badly the tube has ruptured, because 480 00:34:53.610 --> 00:34:58.610 sometimes I can just be a little nick you know in the in the tube, 481 00:34:58.690 --> 00:35:00.530 or it can really, you know, be much more serious. Get, 482 00:35:00.650 --> 00:35:04.090 you know, some kind of a blood vessel or whatever, and that 483 00:35:04.130 --> 00:35:07.880 can be much more serious. So it kind of it's it really depends. 484 00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:10.800 Some ruptures are worse than others. Yeah, yeah, do they hospitalized mom? 485 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:14.679 Sometimes they do keep them in the hospital for that expected. Yes, 486 00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:17.400 spent time? Yes, yes, especially if the baby's bigger. So yeah, 487 00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.070 before we wrap this up, and you may may or may not be 488 00:35:22.230 --> 00:35:28.429 able to share, but if you can, please share, maybe without giving 489 00:35:28.510 --> 00:35:35.309 specifics, a situation you've encountered with the mom that has head a nick topic 490 00:35:35.349 --> 00:35:40.539 pregnancy at the abortion center or somehow you were connected with that person and how 491 00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:45.699 you kind of talk them through and walk them through that that situation. Well, 492 00:35:45.739 --> 00:35:47.539 I'm always quick to point out, you know, if your doctor is 493 00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:52.329 told you you have a Tu bulleck topic pregnancy and you're coming to an ambulatory 494 00:35:52.369 --> 00:35:55.610 surgical center for an abortion. What are they going what procedure are they going 495 00:35:55.610 --> 00:36:00.010 to do on you and there? Normally they're telling me that they're coming for 496 00:36:00.449 --> 00:36:05.840 a surgical abortion. Well, that just sends up a bunch of red flags 497 00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:08.280 because of the babies outside of the uterus. You can't do a surgical abortion. 498 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:12.639 Now if they're telling them to go there for a medical abortion, even 499 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.239 that has some really iffy things because you're going home to labor and deliver that 500 00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:22.110 baby on your own. And so I'm pointing out these these cracks in their 501 00:36:22.510 --> 00:36:27.789 treatment plan to where that mom could end up harmed anyway. Yeah, doing 502 00:36:27.869 --> 00:36:30.550 the medical abortion or going through with a surgical abortion where that baby still growing 503 00:36:30.590 --> 00:36:34.219 in that tube and didn't you didn't solve anything they thought they were going to 504 00:36:34.260 --> 00:36:37.300 solve. So you really got to dig deep and see what they've been told 505 00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:40.340 where the location of the baby is, which is why it's always good to 506 00:36:40.340 --> 00:36:44.179 get a second opinion. Yeah, to make sure that baby is where they 507 00:36:44.179 --> 00:36:49.449 said it was. And then I just remind them that it's not within our 508 00:36:50.289 --> 00:36:52.369 control, or it's not been given to us by God to call whether or 509 00:36:52.409 --> 00:36:58.369 not this baby should be executed, and we are only supposed to support life 510 00:36:58.570 --> 00:37:00.920 and we need to find someone who's going to back us up, you know, 511 00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:06.199 and and and a line who has the treatment plan that aligns with God's. 512 00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:10.079 So I'm always just quick to get them into a second opinion to a 513 00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:14.960 good doctor who's going to determine what's best for them and what's best for that 514 00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:19.469 baby. Yeah, I mean it's certainly a situation where. I mean again, 515 00:37:19.510 --> 00:37:25.190 I've encountered these situations and it's never if it's a real situation, because 516 00:37:25.190 --> 00:37:28.550 sometimes I've been lied to. You. You know, you have to Vicky, 517 00:37:28.590 --> 00:37:30.099 I'm sure you have to. or now it's thinking old she was talking 518 00:37:30.179 --> 00:37:34.420 with her questions to them. I'm sure you've uncovered people that right. He 519 00:37:34.539 --> 00:37:38.019 thought this is just another excuse. Yeah, really, trying to make you 520 00:37:38.059 --> 00:37:42.059 feel bad for talking to them about going into the abortion center. But in 521 00:37:42.139 --> 00:37:45.010 the situations where I've encountered, and they've been very few and far between, 522 00:37:45.329 --> 00:37:49.570 where it's been legit and it's been a genuine situation, it's never that they're 523 00:37:49.570 --> 00:37:52.210 coming to me and talking to me and some proud and arrogant way they're already 524 00:37:52.289 --> 00:37:57.050 broken. Yeah, right, there's already a heaviness about them and I make 525 00:37:57.130 --> 00:38:00.719 sure just be very intentional with my language. I'm not coming across as condemning 526 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:06.800 or as judge or whatever we want to identify. And again, we train 527 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:12.320 folks in all of these hard cases to have compassion, to identify with their 528 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:15.150 struggle and all of that. But it really gets to the point where, 529 00:38:15.190 --> 00:38:17.909 when I'm talking to a mom going into an abortion center, a dad whose 530 00:38:17.949 --> 00:38:22.190 girlfriend or wife's going into the abortion center, is that you're going to a 531 00:38:22.230 --> 00:38:24.230 place of darkness, you're going into a place of death. Yeah, I 532 00:38:24.349 --> 00:38:28.900 know you probably wanted to keep this baby. That's often time the case and 533 00:38:29.019 --> 00:38:32.820 these situations I've encountered. And so you want to keep this child and you're 534 00:38:32.860 --> 00:38:36.500 broken hearted because you're not going to be able to. You don't think that 535 00:38:36.579 --> 00:38:37.980 you're going to be able to. You're going into a place full of people 536 00:38:38.260 --> 00:38:43.489 that don't want to keep their children. You're subjecting yourself to doctors. I 537 00:38:43.610 --> 00:38:45.730 mean, wow, if you go through the track record or some of these 538 00:38:45.769 --> 00:38:49.769 doctors. A matter of fact, one of the doctors here at the latrobe 539 00:38:49.769 --> 00:38:53.570 abortion center is actually responsible for the death of a woman. I don't know 540 00:38:53.570 --> 00:38:59.199 if you knew this, but he actually a woman came to his clinic and 541 00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:02.599 had a necktopic pregnancy. This is like two thousand and six and he gave 542 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:07.679 her the abortion pill and then she came back because she was still pregnant. 543 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:10.789 The abortion pill apparently didn't work and so he gave a surgical abortion to an 544 00:39:10.789 --> 00:39:14.909 empty uterus. He didn't do his due diligence to find out that she had 545 00:39:14.909 --> 00:39:17.469 a necktopic pregnancy. Well, because the abortion peop will never work on on 546 00:39:17.909 --> 00:39:22.230 an neck topic pregnancy. It's a different pill, correct somewhat. Yeah, 547 00:39:22.510 --> 00:39:25.420 so she ultimately, as far as the little bit of Digg in that we've 548 00:39:25.460 --> 00:39:29.699 done, her flipping to ruptured and she died. She bled to death. 549 00:39:30.699 --> 00:39:35.780 So you don't want abortionists, people, they get paid to kill people's children, 550 00:39:36.699 --> 00:39:40.010 to oversee your ectopic pregnancy. And if that's a genuine thing that you're 551 00:39:40.010 --> 00:39:45.570 dealing with or that a mom that as a sidewalk counselor that you're ministering to, 552 00:39:45.329 --> 00:39:49.050 then she needs to go to a real doctor, she needs to be 553 00:39:49.130 --> 00:39:52.559 overseen by a hospital or by a real doctor, not an abortion clinic, 554 00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:57.719 not an abortionist. And I will say if you've been referred to an abortion 555 00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:01.519 clinic by your doctor, because they tell you that that pregnancy is out of 556 00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:05.599 the uterus. Isn't a topic pregnancy. That should send up some warning flags 557 00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.510 to you will because, yes, no good doctor is going to do that 558 00:40:07.670 --> 00:40:12.110 in the case, I'm an ectopic pregnancy. Yes, yeah, exactly, 559 00:40:12.190 --> 00:40:15.909 sadly, I mean, the abortion center is probably the cheapest place for them 560 00:40:15.989 --> 00:40:22.179 to go and have that baby removed, right, as opposed to the hide 561 00:40:22.219 --> 00:40:25.099 it can't even be done in a topic circumstances. Right, right, kind 562 00:40:25.139 --> 00:40:28.900 of right. You gotta think. Why do they want me? Yeah, 563 00:40:28.940 --> 00:40:32.380 yeah, only if I guess, they they would refer. Only if I'm 564 00:40:32.380 --> 00:40:37.489 assuming on as a really terrible doctor. They are. Are they are referring? 565 00:40:37.849 --> 00:40:39.090 Correct me if I'm wrong. If the baby is so small, so 566 00:40:39.289 --> 00:40:45.849 young, that the medication can still, mean safely taken, is that might 567 00:40:45.889 --> 00:40:49.570 be yes, okay, yes, although you should still be under the care 568 00:40:49.610 --> 00:40:52.840 of a Doctor Shul later the method tracks say is given, and I don't 569 00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:55.159 even think they think that's the drug they use there anyway. So, yeah, 570 00:40:55.159 --> 00:41:00.559 yeah, all right. Well, we hope we gave you guys some 571 00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:04.670 information to chew want to think about, to pray about, and we hope 572 00:41:04.710 --> 00:41:07.750 you guys will dig into this article that we're going to post. It's called 573 00:41:07.869 --> 00:41:13.269 Ectopic personhood and it's from the personhood initiative. So if for some reason you 574 00:41:13.590 --> 00:41:16.429 guys don't see it in the show notes of this podcast, maybe your access 575 00:41:16.469 --> 00:41:22.340 in this podcast on some other platform than apple podcasts. Certainly you can just 576 00:41:22.579 --> 00:41:27.900 google search it and you'll find it. Share this podcast with folks that you 577 00:41:27.980 --> 00:41:30.659 know. Maybe it'll be a blessing to someone and reach out to us. 578 00:41:31.179 --> 00:41:35.250 You can reach out to me d parks at cities for lifecom. You reach 579 00:41:35.329 --> 00:41:37.929 out to her VCASI ORG at cities for lifecom. We'd love to hear from 580 00:41:37.929 --> 00:41:42.849 you guys. We'd love to hear some suggestions of topics that we can cover 581 00:41:43.610 --> 00:41:45.730 and we'd love to hear what you guys think about the podcast. Maybe some 582 00:41:45.849 --> 00:41:50.199 things we can improve. And just before wrap it up, I want to 583 00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:52.559 thank you again, Lisa, for coming. Can I appreciate you taking time 584 00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:57.760 away from your family to come and share and again, just ended off, 585 00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:00.670 we're not medical professionals, so we're not pretending to be. We don't play 586 00:42:01.030 --> 00:42:07.670 medical professionals on TV. This is not a medical professional podcast, but it 587 00:42:07.750 --> 00:42:09.590 is a gospel center pro life podcast and so we hope it was a blessing, 588 00:42:09.630 --> 00:42:17.179 you guess, and so until next time, God bless give me our 589 00:42:17.500 --> 00:42:30.690 love for love, give me our love for gratitude. I know it will 590 00:42:30.849 --> 00:42:38.329 cost me my life. Nothing's too precious in some you