Is Ectopic Pregnancy A Death Sentence?

WEBVTT100:00:02.080 --> 00:00:07.950I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord,200:00:08.429 --> 00:00:12.550I am yours. I welcome tothe Gospel Center pro life podcast.300:00:12.789 --> 00:00:16.469This episode we're going to talk abouta pretty difficult subject, a topic pregnancy.400:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.109We think it's going to be aninformative and helpful episode, so stay500:00:20.190 --> 00:00:30.579tuned. Send Me, Lord.I felt show passish, touch your heart.600:00:33.020 --> 00:00:40.250Use Me. Welcome to the GospelCenter pro life podcast. Appreciate you700:00:40.329 --> 00:00:43.570guys listening and, as always,we appreciate if you guys would leave us800:00:43.570 --> 00:00:46.850a review on itunes. I knowsome folks have asked how to leave a900:00:46.890 --> 00:00:51.119review on itunes and you know,look it up, because it's actually not1000:00:51.280 --> 00:00:54.280easy, to be honest with you. If you go on Itunes, are1100:00:54.280 --> 00:00:58.079you go on the apple PODCAST APP? It's not easy to find how to1200:00:58.119 --> 00:01:00.479leave a review. But actually,if you just scrow down to the very1300:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.479bottom, as you're in our podcast, you can scroll down and you can1400:01:03.479 --> 00:01:06.750see how to leave a review.Five stars are great. We like five1500:01:06.790 --> 00:01:10.230star reviews. They're fun and theymight help counteract some of the one star1600:01:10.590 --> 00:01:15.670reviews or some of the negative thousandstar reviews that we've gotten over the past1700:01:15.670 --> 00:01:19.379couple of months. Not from ournormal get were not from our normal viewership1800:01:19.620 --> 00:01:23.900but from some pretty nasty pro abortionpeople, which I hopefully in the next1900:01:23.939 --> 00:01:26.819podcast will read some more of thosereviews. I think it blessed people to2000:01:26.939 --> 00:01:30.859listen. They're in your fund reviews. They heart preying. But today we're2100:01:30.859 --> 00:01:34.170going to cover a subject that Ihope will be a blessing to you guys,2200:01:34.250 --> 00:01:37.209and it's a question that a lotof pro life people have, a2300:01:37.290 --> 00:01:38.409lot of people on the sidewalk.It's something you're going to run into,2400:01:38.409 --> 00:01:42.930if you haven't in your ministry,on the sidewalk, you're going to run2500:01:42.930 --> 00:01:47.400into this. You probably already have, but it's the subject of ectopic pregnancy.2600:01:47.480 --> 00:01:51.200Now, right off bat we're goingto make sure and let everybody know2700:01:51.599 --> 00:01:55.959we're not medical professionals. I'm not, Vicky is not and our guest,2800:01:56.079 --> 00:01:59.879Lisa is not a medical professional.So we're not giving medical advice. What2900:02:00.040 --> 00:02:05.549we're giving is just our experience.Lisa has experience in dealing with MOMS that3000:02:05.629 --> 00:02:09.629have had ectopic pregnancies, but alsoexperience in ectopic pregnancy herself. So she3100:02:09.830 --> 00:02:15.669doing a speak from a unique perspectiveand we're also going to be referencing an3200:02:15.710 --> 00:02:20.580article that I guess we'll put outin the show notes of the podcast,3300:02:20.780 --> 00:02:27.099right, ectopic personhood from the personhoodinitiative, the personhood initiative. And yes,3400:02:27.219 --> 00:02:30.770the name of the article is sectopicpersonhood. Yeah, and it's a3500:02:30.889 --> 00:02:34.889real healthful article. So we're goingto be referencing that article sum but we're3600:02:34.930 --> 00:02:39.409going to talk really again around sidewalkcounseling and dealing with the subject of ectopic3700:02:39.449 --> 00:02:44.090pregnancy when you're talking to a momwho's going into an abortion center. And3800:02:44.520 --> 00:02:47.479we've had volunteers, Vicky, youmentioned before we started this podcast that one3900:02:47.479 --> 00:02:52.159of our newer volunteers. One ofour questions on our volunteer application is you4000:02:52.280 --> 00:02:57.120think that there's any exceptions that makeit okay for a mother to have an4100:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.990abortion, and for the most partpeople say no, there's no exceptions.4200:03:00.030 --> 00:03:02.590But this young lady, xte saidYeah, but only in the case of4300:03:02.669 --> 00:03:07.870ectopic pregnancy, and the reality isthat she didn't really understand all of the4400:03:07.990 --> 00:03:10.430INS and out so this you wereable to call and talk to her about4500:03:10.509 --> 00:03:14.060this and so we're going to talkabout some of that. But we also4600:03:14.180 --> 00:03:21.139understand that even in within pro lifeministries and with individuals. There's differing opinions4700:03:21.300 --> 00:03:25.219and views on ectopic pregnancy and we'renot going to pretend to solve all of4800:03:25.419 --> 00:03:31.930that because it is a pretty actuallydifficult question to really try to just answer4900:03:32.050 --> 00:03:36.370and here's, here's the exact answerto it. But I think we're going5000:03:36.370 --> 00:03:38.050to give you, guys, atleast some information that you can process,5100:03:38.129 --> 00:03:44.879you can pray about and that willhelp you in dealing with moms who are5200:03:44.960 --> 00:03:49.800considering abortions because they've been told thatthey have an ectopic pregnancy. So that's5300:03:49.800 --> 00:03:57.789a long beginning to hopefully a gooddiscussion about ectopic pregnancy. But, Lisa,5400:03:58.550 --> 00:04:01.949real quick just introduce yourself and justso you folks know, Lisa has5500:04:01.990 --> 00:04:04.550been involved on the sidewalk for along time. She's going to share a5600:04:04.550 --> 00:04:09.229little bit about that and she andher family were instrumental in starting cities for5700:04:09.349 --> 00:04:13.500life back in two thousand and tenor before that. So but introduce yourself5800:04:13.580 --> 00:04:15.459on your with your with your ownterms. They're sure. My name is5900:04:15.620 --> 00:04:26.129Lisa metscer and I am a secondgeneration sidewalk counselor. My parents brought me6000:04:26.170 --> 00:04:30.850out at a very young age tothe sidewalk to offer hope and help to6100:04:31.170 --> 00:04:34.529a woman that was going into aboard. So I've been at this a6200:04:34.970 --> 00:04:40.720really long time and, as Danielsaid, I helped mark and I helped6300:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.079my husband mark and I helped withsetting up cities for life and getting that6400:04:44.199 --> 00:04:46.720ball rolling there. So that wasquite a privilege and then just to see6500:04:46.720 --> 00:04:53.110where it has gone. What isamazing we have fourteen children. Three of6600:04:53.149 --> 00:04:57.670those children are adopted and we havea whole bunch of children in heaven because6700:04:57.709 --> 00:05:02.269of miscarriage and one of those babiesthat we lost was an ectopic pregnancies.6800:05:02.430 --> 00:05:09.100So yeahs can speak from experience comingfrom this. So yeah, and it6900:05:09.259 --> 00:05:14.620was Lisa that got me involved andcities and cities for life and ultimately and7000:05:14.699 --> 00:05:19.220sidewalk consulated and where where we aretoday. So I really appreciate Lisa.7100:05:19.819 --> 00:05:25.329So she especially appreciate you coming ona you get get fourteen kids. Yeah,7200:05:25.569 --> 00:05:29.089it's not easy to get away,yeah, from the House, I'm7300:05:29.089 --> 00:05:31.329sure. I'm sure the opportunity tocome and do a podcast here in the7400:05:31.410 --> 00:05:36.920office was maybe just opportunity that youseized and you get little skate time.7500:05:38.079 --> 00:05:42.680Yeah, we do appreciate you comeand so I do want to so that7600:05:42.800 --> 00:05:46.120we don't go right into the issueof ectopic practice. We'll talk a little7700:05:46.120 --> 00:05:48.560bit about your experience because I thinkwe'll just capitalize on this moment. I7800:05:48.759 --> 00:05:54.910said your second generation sidewalk counselors.So your parents were involved. WAS IT7900:05:54.990 --> 00:05:59.069operation rest? And that's right.They started when operation rescue began and kind8000:05:59.069 --> 00:06:02.069of went from there into different opportunities. Yeah, Rally for life, yeah,8100:06:02.149 --> 00:06:04.060like that. So, yeah,yeah, and that was back in8200:06:04.100 --> 00:06:09.019the s late S. I thinkwe got involved, s early S.8300:06:09.259 --> 00:06:13.819wow. Yeah, and then yougot involved and then ultimately instrumental in starting8400:06:13.899 --> 00:06:16.139cities for life. And now yourkids, your daughter kids, are out8500:06:16.139 --> 00:06:19.769there. Yeah, your daughter Caitlyn, who's what, she's twenty one and8600:06:19.769 --> 00:06:26.689twenty one, is out there almostevery Saturday minister and on our Saturday team,8700:06:26.730 --> 00:06:30.370and she's just a tremendous blessing.So there's like three generations and we8800:06:30.410 --> 00:06:32.879should do a podcast about that.Yeah, it the generation of yeah,8900:06:32.879 --> 00:06:35.519actually, I do want to doa podcast. Maybe you guys watch out9000:06:35.519 --> 00:06:40.079for that one about being raised inthe pro life movement. Maybe I'll get9100:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.160Kaitlyn. What do you think?Yes, my well, yeah, because9200:06:43.199 --> 00:06:45.759I think that is a unique perspective. But yeah, I wanted to touch9300:06:45.800 --> 00:06:49.589on that and just again give youguys your family props for for what you9400:06:49.750 --> 00:06:55.189did in starting cities for life andultimately is led to love life. Love9500:06:55.269 --> 00:06:58.829life sort of sprung out of citiesfor life in one sense, and then9600:06:59.029 --> 00:07:02.180now love life is just going nationwideand we're seeing God. Yeah, we're9700:07:02.180 --> 00:07:06.779seeing God raise up people all overthe the United States, all over the9800:07:06.860 --> 00:07:11.660world, and I find myself,actually, and I know you do too,9900:07:11.740 --> 00:07:17.089Vicki referencing things back to to theog crowd, dude, to Liza10000:07:17.529 --> 00:07:21.129and to Janette, the Wilson family, to the Bendoms and just those who10100:07:21.170 --> 00:07:26.449originally started some of the things thatyou guys put together. And I think10200:07:26.490 --> 00:07:29.769maybe even this person, person,I think it is article right, it10300:07:29.850 --> 00:07:32.639was from them. Yeah, it'sguy found and put it out. Yeah,10400:07:32.959 --> 00:07:35.600so that all of our sidewalk counselorscan be informed about this. So10500:07:35.959 --> 00:07:42.519we do appreciate you. So let'slet's talk about the issue of ectopic pregnancy.10600:07:42.800 --> 00:07:46.110Yeah, first and foremost, whatare we even talking about? What10700:07:46.149 --> 00:07:47.709does this mean? Some people maynot even know what this term means.10800:07:47.709 --> 00:07:51.949Right. So let's let lea sayyeah, define define what what that is.10900:07:53.149 --> 00:07:57.949extopic pregnancy is a child that hasbeen conceived, is already growing,11000:07:58.069 --> 00:08:01.740but has implanted in somewhere other thanthe uterus. So that can be the11100:08:01.860 --> 00:08:05.540Philippian Tube, that can be theabdominal cavity, that can be in the11200:08:07.180 --> 00:08:11.420in the ovary itself. So it'sanything outside the uterus. Yeah, okay,11300:08:11.860 --> 00:08:16.209and often times, more often thananywhere else, it's actually the in11400:08:16.290 --> 00:08:20.449Filopian Tobe. Correct, although I'veencountered situations. I had one, this11500:08:20.569 --> 00:08:24.050is probably you and a half orso ago, where a young man came11600:08:24.089 --> 00:08:26.279over and told me his wife hadan ectopic pregnancy. It was a cervical11700:08:26.959 --> 00:08:33.200pregnancy. Yeah, which is pretty, pretty dangerous. So there are other11800:08:33.320 --> 00:08:37.279ectopic pregnancies, but if you encounterany of is a small portion of pregnancies11900:08:37.320 --> 00:08:43.070that are ectopic, but the largerportion of that small portion are in the12000:08:43.149 --> 00:08:46.029Pelopian tube. So that's mainly we'regoing to be talking about, although there12100:08:46.070 --> 00:08:50.350are other places where a baby couldbe placed. So and of course the12200:08:50.429 --> 00:08:56.100danger is that the Floppian tube andall those other places except the if they12300:08:56.340 --> 00:09:01.019somehow get into the abdomen, theythere isn't room to expand with that without12400:09:01.500 --> 00:09:05.940that part of your body bursting,right, and then the resultant hemorrhaching.12500:09:07.100 --> 00:09:11.769Is is the issue, right.So I don't know about what you knew12600:09:11.009 --> 00:09:16.809prior to you becoming a mother,but my understanding of ectopic pregnancy before reading12700:09:16.889 --> 00:09:22.450this article was that this was notonly a death sentence for the mother,12800:09:22.889 --> 00:09:28.000but a death sentence for the baby. So of course the abortion almost sounds12900:09:28.080 --> 00:09:31.639reasonable, right, or does soundreasonable, if that's what you truly believe?13000:09:31.799 --> 00:09:37.240They're both going to die, soat least save one, which would13100:09:37.399 --> 00:09:43.070which would be the mother. Sotell us about maybe just to kind of13200:09:43.149 --> 00:09:50.710help us to understand what it isfrom a very personal experience to face an13300:09:50.750 --> 00:09:54.139ectopic pregnancy, what you went through, what you did, and and then13400:09:54.179 --> 00:09:58.259we'll go from there maybe to talkabout some of the research that in this13500:09:58.500 --> 00:10:05.820personhood initiative article. That is reallyvery eye opening, right. Yeah,13600:10:05.899 --> 00:10:09.610well, this was back in twothousand and six when I found out I13700:10:09.690 --> 00:10:16.250was pregnant. I was kind ofsurprised by it actually, because I had13800:10:16.289 --> 00:10:22.360had two cycles before where I waspregnant but didn't know it until after that13900:10:22.559 --> 00:10:24.639at that second cycle. So ittook me by surprised. I was shocked14000:10:24.679 --> 00:10:28.799at the location of the baby.I'd actually had some pain. So I14100:10:28.879 --> 00:10:31.679went into my obe. They didan ultrasound and they told me that the14200:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.990baby was growing in still had aheartbeat in the tube, in my Philippian14300:10:37.070 --> 00:10:39.870Tube. So how far along wereyou at that point? That was about14400:10:39.870 --> 00:10:45.230eight weeks. Wow. Yeah,so that was a little bit scary.14500:10:45.309 --> 00:10:48.710They were going to go in andthey offered me two different options. They14600:10:48.750 --> 00:10:52.659said surgery, which would probably bethe better of the two options, given14700:10:52.659 --> 00:10:54.700the size of the baby. Sothey said surgery where they could either try14800:10:54.700 --> 00:10:58.620to remove the baby from the tubeor remove the tube completely, or to14900:10:58.820 --> 00:11:03.700give me a drug called at thetruck sate. So I know immediately I15000:11:03.820 --> 00:11:07.049didn't, you know, coming fromthat pro life background, that did not15100:11:07.169 --> 00:11:11.889sit well, did did they?Did they think that there was any way15200:11:11.049 --> 00:11:16.570like, did they ever mention anything, transplant, you know, anything to15300:11:16.690 --> 00:11:20.559give you any hope? Or wasit just the baby must be killed in15400:11:20.679 --> 00:11:22.240order to stay here? Yes,yes, the baby, you know,15500:11:22.440 --> 00:11:26.600needed was going to die. IsWhat they told me. Yeah, or15600:11:26.759 --> 00:11:28.720I could die from, you know, my tube rupturing right, which they15700:11:28.759 --> 00:11:33.029said could be any moment, andit's a scary place to be but I15800:11:33.070 --> 00:11:35.029knew, because of my background,I knew, because of what I knew15900:11:35.029 --> 00:11:39.629about the Lord and what he saidabout giving and taking life, that that16000:11:39.830 --> 00:11:45.429wasn't in my my control. Ididn't want to take control over ending someone16100:11:45.429 --> 00:11:50.299else's life, and so I toldthe doctor that, and I don't think16200:11:50.299 --> 00:11:54.659it came to a surprise to mydoctor. They kind of knew exactly where16300:11:54.659 --> 00:11:58.379I stood. They said, well, there is this other method of dealing16400:11:58.460 --> 00:12:03.850with a Tu bullock topic pregnancy,and that is called expectant management. I16500:12:03.970 --> 00:12:07.769had never heard of this. Right, I didn't know a whole lot about16600:12:07.769 --> 00:12:11.970a topic pregnancy, but I knewenough to know that those were probably going16700:12:13.009 --> 00:12:15.370to be the only two option.I was given the surgery in the method,16800:12:15.409 --> 00:12:18.519truck say, and I said No. So they gave me this other16900:12:18.600 --> 00:12:20.440option. They said, listen,we'll take your HCG levels, the baby17000:12:20.480 --> 00:12:26.240probably won't survive, will do repeatultrasound. You go home, beyond Bedrest,17100:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.470lie down, see what happens,and I obviously opted for that,17200:12:31.429 --> 00:12:37.070knowing what I knew and having theconvictions I had, and I went home17300:12:37.149 --> 00:12:41.110and waited it out. I wentfor repeat testing and by that point the17400:12:41.190 --> 00:12:48.259baby had passed so I rested fullyand knowing that I had done everything I17500:12:48.500 --> 00:12:54.779could do for that baby and thatI had chosen something that I could live17600:12:54.820 --> 00:13:00.649with, where I could not havelived with choosing to have my baby forcibly17700:13:00.809 --> 00:13:05.809removed or its life supply ended.Yeah, you know, at my choice.17800:13:05.129 --> 00:13:09.809How long was it from the pointthat you were told that you had17900:13:09.850 --> 00:13:13.679an eck topic pregnancy to the pointat which the baby had died? It18000:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.799was actually only a couple days.After only a couple of days. Do18100:13:16.879 --> 00:13:18.120you know, and I don't knowoff hand, I don't mean to put18200:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.240you on the spot, but doyou know how often that happens, that18300:13:22.360 --> 00:13:28.190the baby does indeed die? It'sit's pretty often because the baby's constricted,18400:13:28.909 --> 00:13:31.990and I think it actually says inthat personhood article right there about that.18500:13:33.269 --> 00:13:35.629Yeah, the statistics. Okay,so maybe we'll find that later. Is18600:13:35.789 --> 00:13:41.820this we go through that? Sodid you have to have then surgery to18700:13:41.899 --> 00:13:45.220have the baby removed? Is thata point to which can the baby passed?18800:13:45.259 --> 00:13:48.980Naturally, they told me that itwould probably be reabsorbed, and so,18900:13:50.299 --> 00:13:52.460as far as I know, that'swhat happened. Okay, okay,19000:13:52.980 --> 00:13:58.169so your tubes never ruptured, neverhad to rupture. Okay, all right,19100:13:58.490 --> 00:14:00.490and I was told what to dowhen they sent me home. You19200:14:00.529 --> 00:14:03.889know if I showed signs of rupture, what I should do. Okay,19300:14:03.090 --> 00:14:09.929and that's the important kind of pointto this whole method is they're watching over,19400:14:09.970 --> 00:14:13.240they're keeping a close eye. Soit's called expectant management management, so19500:14:13.320 --> 00:14:20.240they're making sure that you're okay.They're kind of a wait and see option19600:14:20.480 --> 00:14:26.389here and again. The point isthat you don't want to intentionally take the19700:14:26.470 --> 00:14:28.110life of your child, knowing whatyou know now, I do want to19800:14:28.110 --> 00:14:31.950say this for people who have dealtwith this. Maybe there's people that are19900:14:31.990 --> 00:14:35.149listening that have dealt with this,that have had a topic pregnancy, went20000:14:35.230 --> 00:14:39.860to the doctor, the doctor recommendedthis and that you could be in a20100:14:39.899 --> 00:14:45.019position sometimes, especially when you're alreadykind of scared and shaken, to make20200:14:45.299 --> 00:14:50.340a really rash decision. And doctorsa lot of times are risk adverse and20300:14:50.419 --> 00:14:54.049so they're going to take the pathof least resistance and, especially if they're20400:14:54.049 --> 00:14:58.090not pro life doctors, they're gonnajust okay, well, when in doubt,20500:14:58.409 --> 00:15:01.570they get out. And so maybethere's people that are listening that you20600:15:01.649 --> 00:15:03.850kind of took that option. Wedon't, we want, don't want to20700:15:03.850 --> 00:15:07.240bring any condemnation, any guilt andsay that you, Lisa is better than20800:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.600you or or anything like that.No, thank God she dug a little20900:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.960deeper and they talked about this expectedmanagement and you know, it didn't work21000:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.950out good for the child, butit did work out good for you and21100:15:22.350 --> 00:15:26.309you don't have the guilt of ofknowing that you intentionally did that. Those21200:15:26.309 --> 00:15:30.710again, who are listening who maybeyou don't know what you don't know,21300:15:31.269 --> 00:15:33.269as if you didn't know this wasan option, then how are you going21400:15:33.309 --> 00:15:37.620to be able to access that option? However, now you know, and21500:15:37.779 --> 00:15:41.299even talking to a mom to kindof bring it around to really what we21600:15:41.419 --> 00:15:45.220want is to help, encourage sidewell counselors, to help a mom who's21700:15:45.220 --> 00:15:50.370telling you she has ecked topic pregnancyto know that there's another option available to21800:15:50.490 --> 00:15:52.690her, that she don't have tointentionally take the life for a child.21900:15:52.850 --> 00:15:56.570She can kind of let, forlack of a bitter term, nature take22000:15:56.610 --> 00:16:00.330its course or whatever. Is away that you can talk to a mom22100:16:00.730 --> 00:16:04.120in front of an abortion center aboutthe issue of eck topic pregnancy and at22200:16:04.159 --> 00:16:07.759least to get a second opinion,I mean because the I don't think women22300:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.840understand. You know that there isthis and this is why I speak about22400:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.679it, because I know people thathave personally gone through a topic. Pregnancy22500:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.840is chose one of the options givento them and they deal with that guilt.22600:16:17.840 --> 00:16:19.230Well, I would just want peopleto know that there is another option22700:16:19.389 --> 00:16:22.789that's not talked about a whole lot. Right, right. So talk a22800:16:22.830 --> 00:16:26.909little bit about that, because I'msure you you have thought about this,22900:16:26.149 --> 00:16:32.350that if there is an exception forabortion for the if the life of the23000:16:32.509 --> 00:16:38.379mother is in danger, what isthat the really saying about the value of23100:16:38.539 --> 00:16:41.460that child? So exactly? Well, I look at any of my other23200:16:41.580 --> 00:16:45.179children and which is more important?My life or my child's life? You23300:16:45.299 --> 00:16:48.370know, my two year old.You know which life is more important either.23400:16:48.409 --> 00:16:52.450There of equal value and I thinkGod's eyes, and that's how we23500:16:52.529 --> 00:16:55.409have to look at anything. Nomatter where that child is located, that23600:16:55.570 --> 00:17:00.720doesn't determine value. That child isstill valuable no matter where it is growing23700:17:02.519 --> 00:17:07.480currently. Yeah, so, anyof these exceptions, then it's important,23800:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.279I think, for us a sidewalk counselors, to speak about that.23900:17:11.160 --> 00:17:17.349That there is the tacit admission thanthat that unborn baby is somehow of less24000:17:17.430 --> 00:17:22.349value and that's not biblical. Yes, so and it and it fuels.24100:17:22.630 --> 00:17:26.589I think what happened in the issueof how to manage a topic pregnancy.24200:17:27.230 --> 00:17:33.380So one of the things that thisarticle brought out is, first of all,24300:17:34.339 --> 00:17:38.019is it a death sentence? BecauseI think we all thought it.24400:17:38.220 --> 00:17:41.339I did. We thought it was. It was a death sentence for the24500:17:41.420 --> 00:17:45.650MOM. No, it was nota death sentence for you. Correct it.24600:17:45.049 --> 00:17:48.490The MOM can die. I don'twant to say she can't, but24700:17:48.890 --> 00:17:56.569there is certainly research in in thisarticle that demonstrates that that is not necessarily24800:17:56.609 --> 00:18:00.799the case. That they they andthe the research is a little bit like24900:18:02.160 --> 00:18:10.480convoluted and and hard for me tosummarize easily, but kind of in in25000:18:10.759 --> 00:18:15.430summary, one of the studies showedthat in at least ninety nine point six25100:18:15.710 --> 00:18:22.230of all the ruptured ectopic pregnancies ina study in southern Israel, they did25200:18:22.430 --> 00:18:29.380not result in the death of themom. That's that's a pretty high success25300:18:29.539 --> 00:18:36.019rate. And and they I thinkin a lot of these cases successes more25400:18:36.900 --> 00:18:41.849pronounced and likely in the case ofexpectant management. What you did, and25500:18:42.130 --> 00:18:47.490now auto transfusion, and I thoughtyou had gone through that, but I25600:18:47.569 --> 00:18:49.890guess I was. You know,I did not. Okay, that is25700:18:51.049 --> 00:18:52.569and for auto transfusion. For this, why don't understand what it is?25800:18:52.730 --> 00:18:56.680Is when the tube has ruptured andblood has flowed into the abdominal cavity,25900:18:57.160 --> 00:19:02.200there are actually methods where they cantake that blood out and re an inserted26000:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.759into the mother so that she's notbleeding to death. She's having her same26100:19:04.880 --> 00:19:11.190blood put back through. Right system. Right. So, so the the26200:19:11.349 --> 00:19:15.869idea that it is a death sentencefor the mother is is not. scessarely26300:19:17.029 --> 00:19:18.789true. It's not true. Theresearchs and there is and you can go26400:19:18.910 --> 00:19:22.950through this all all of you peoplelistening later, later on, because we26500:19:22.990 --> 00:19:27.539will post this article. But thenthe second point that is often made is,26600:19:29.099 --> 00:19:33.380okay, it's not necessarily that themom will die, but what about26700:19:33.380 --> 00:19:38.130the baby? Babies don't survive eggtopic pregnancy. So why put the mother26800:19:38.329 --> 00:19:44.650through risk for the death sentence ofthe baby? Exactly? How do you26900:19:44.730 --> 00:19:45.970read? Can you talk a littlebit of I can speak to that.27000:19:47.009 --> 00:19:49.849Actually, I have a good friend, her name is recy and she was27100:19:49.890 --> 00:19:56.440an ectopic pregnancy. Oh, andshe was actually she implanted in her mother's27200:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.160Tube and right at the end,right before you know, the tube leads27300:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.920to the to the uterus, andher mother wasn't clear, encourage to Aboord27400:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.710and heavily pressured and she said no, I cannot do it, it is27500:20:07.710 --> 00:20:11.029against my conscience, I cannot takethe drugs, I cannot do the surgery.27600:20:11.269 --> 00:20:17.549Wow, she waited and that babymigrated, which does happen. The27700:20:17.589 --> 00:20:21.430placent of migrates during pregnancy. Thatbaby migrated to the uterus and that is27800:20:21.500 --> 00:20:25.460now my friend who's, you know, forty something years old and alive and27900:20:25.539 --> 00:20:29.099well and has children and, youknow, amazing things. God is done28000:20:29.140 --> 00:20:32.980because her mom plays her trust inJesus instead of the medical doctors. That28100:20:33.539 --> 00:20:37.329such an awesome story and that andand that's what the research chose, is28200:20:37.410 --> 00:20:44.289that the baby has an amazing abilityto transplant itself somewhere else. And there28300:20:44.410 --> 00:20:48.970there was one case described in thisarticle of a baby that the tube actually28400:20:49.039 --> 00:20:56.759rup shirt. The MOM survived,I assume, through transfusion. The baby28500:20:56.039 --> 00:21:03.750migrated into the abdomen and grew fornine months and was delivered healthy by Cesarean28600:21:03.829 --> 00:21:10.230section, healthy full term child thatgrew in the abdomen. Yeah, there's28700:21:10.269 --> 00:21:12.190been. There is one, atleast one recorded case of a baby that28800:21:12.269 --> 00:21:15.269grew the full nine months. Well, no, I'm not sure was the28900:21:15.309 --> 00:21:18.539full nine months, but to thepoint of where they could take the baby29000:21:18.619 --> 00:21:22.259out safely in the tube, rightin the tube, and the tube did29100:21:22.339 --> 00:21:30.539not rupture. So it kind ofbegs the question then of if, if29200:21:30.619 --> 00:21:37.609the baby can transplant itself, whyaren't Doctors Tread? We could make it29300:21:37.730 --> 00:21:45.730to the moon. Why aren't wetransplanting babies from the tube into the uter29400:21:45.930 --> 00:21:48.559and you have to realize it's aculture of death and that life, that29500:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.960little life, is not important,that life is expendable and that's not God's29600:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.440way. Yeah, absolutely, it'sone of the reasons why we're having this29700:21:56.559 --> 00:22:02.950conversation is because we want this,we want to season this culture with the29800:22:03.069 --> 00:22:07.190value of human life, because themore and more we are quote progress as29900:22:07.230 --> 00:22:11.630a culture, it seems, themore and more we devalue human lives.30000:22:11.190 --> 00:22:17.059So we've really not progressed, we'veregressed. We've not gone the way that30100:22:17.140 --> 00:22:19.180the Lord had wanted us to goin and medical community, as that's the30200:22:19.259 --> 00:22:22.900same way I mean in this article, which you're probably going to touch on.30300:22:22.980 --> 00:22:27.700There have been cases where doctors successfully, in what nineteen twenty something?30400:22:27.779 --> 00:22:33.970Yeah, in nineteen seventeen, adoctor success. Nineteen seventeen, I mean30500:22:33.009 --> 00:22:40.769that's a hundred years ago. Adoctor successfully transplanted a baby from the Philippian30600:22:40.890 --> 00:22:45.440tube to the uterus and that babywas born healthy and fine, I believe,30700:22:45.519 --> 00:22:51.200by c section nine months later.And that a hundred years ago.30800:22:51.880 --> 00:22:56.279Why has and he thought this isthe start of the whole new wave of30900:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.750how to deal with what was oncea death sentence, they thought was a31000:23:00.910 --> 00:23:04.509death sentence. So why didn't thathappen? So what is what else is31100:23:04.589 --> 00:23:08.069happening in like the nineteen twenties?WHO's coming on the scene, having right31200:23:08.150 --> 00:23:11.789and then there's a guy by thename of Adolf Hitler Film, but also31300:23:11.829 --> 00:23:15.099you have Margaret Singer exactly on thescene, and you really have this this31400:23:15.259 --> 00:23:18.940chipping away of the value of humanlife. And that's why we, as31500:23:19.019 --> 00:23:22.539those who are believers in Jesus,and because we're believers in Jesus, we31600:23:22.619 --> 00:23:26.099believe in the value of human life, that we have to uphold this standard,31700:23:26.170 --> 00:23:30.450that we can't just be Willy Nillyand understand again that there's differing opinions,31800:23:30.890 --> 00:23:34.730and even within the pro life medicalcommunity, about a topic pregnancy and31900:23:34.849 --> 00:23:37.690how you deal with that. Understandthat, but it can't just be a32000:23:37.730 --> 00:23:41.359light and kind of glib thing.Oh yeah, actopic pregnancy, then we've32100:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.759got to do to these other methodswhere we know the baby ultimately has to32200:23:47.160 --> 00:23:51.119be intentionally killed. Though, ifwe're going to hang on to this value32300:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.920of human life and uphold the standardof God, we need to be very32400:23:55.039 --> 00:23:59.230careful in the way that we approachany subject that has to do with human32500:23:59.269 --> 00:24:02.589life, even getting into the realmof like you know, and not the32600:24:02.630 --> 00:24:06.589rabbit trail, but assisted suicide andstuff like that. There's even Christians that32700:24:06.670 --> 00:24:10.180are toying with the idea that thismight be a moral thing to allow people32800:24:10.619 --> 00:24:14.779to be assisted in suicides. Again, it's a chipping away of the value32900:24:14.819 --> 00:24:17.740of human life. And whereas youhad a doctor one thousand nine hundred and33000:24:17.740 --> 00:24:22.740seventeen that was willing to take therisk and to do this procedure and ultimately33100:24:22.859 --> 00:24:26.049with good results, now you've gotdoctors now that are not even willing to33200:24:26.089 --> 00:24:30.529consider what you're even talking about,which is expectant management, and so really33300:24:30.730 --> 00:24:33.410is again, if we're going touphold this standard, we need to stand33400:24:33.529 --> 00:24:37.849firm, and that's why it's helpfulto have articles like this and to have33500:24:37.009 --> 00:24:40.640podcasts like this. They're encouraging youto do that and so that you can33600:24:40.680 --> 00:24:42.759be well informed, because a lotof Christians have no clue about some of33700:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.440the stuff that we're talking about.Right. What did you face when,33800:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.559when you're talking to your doctor's,your family, your friends, your husband33900:24:49.559 --> 00:24:55.630and you're saying this is my decision, was there in overwhelming support for a34000:24:56.309 --> 00:25:00.589decision to follow that approach, orwas there still pressure? You're going to34100:25:00.710 --> 00:25:03.910die, Les, we don't wantyou to die, we'd love you.34200:25:03.470 --> 00:25:08.940I have such a supportive family andthey're all followers of Jesus. So because34300:25:10.019 --> 00:25:14.339of that, they supported me andaffirming life and not killing my baby.34400:25:14.420 --> 00:25:17.779Yeah, so thankfully I had thatsupport, but had I not had that34500:25:17.819 --> 00:25:21.380support, I still would have stoodmy ground and one what I knew I34600:25:21.450 --> 00:25:23.170needed to do in God's eyes.So can you imagine? What do you34700:25:23.210 --> 00:25:27.769think is happening to the MOM's infeeling out a present a very strong abortion34800:25:27.890 --> 00:25:32.450minded culture? Yes, they're feelinga lot of pressure. So, yeah,34900:25:32.490 --> 00:25:34.170we need to be there to supportthem and to educate them and things35000:25:34.210 --> 00:25:37.279like this. Does that? Yeah, do we do? We know of35100:25:37.440 --> 00:25:42.759pro life doctors who are aware ofexpectant management and our supportive and we have35200:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.839some locally that are aware of that. And, yeah, who would institute35300:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.400that? Are they hard to find? They are hard to find. Yeah,35400:25:49.109 --> 00:25:52.789and you might like, like Isaid, they never gave me that35500:25:52.869 --> 00:25:55.750option. I had to push backon the other two options that I was35600:25:55.829 --> 00:26:00.869given in order to learn about expectantmanagement. So if you're ever faced with35700:26:00.990 --> 00:26:03.500this, guys, you need toto know that it is an option and35800:26:03.539 --> 00:26:08.220you need to press your doctor forthat, you know, for that option35900:26:08.299 --> 00:26:11.500to be given to you. Soat least information, yes, and then,36000:26:11.539 --> 00:26:14.980if they don't give it, goto another doctor. Yeah, until36100:26:14.980 --> 00:26:18.769you find someone that's one to supportyou and your conduction's right. I think36200:26:18.849 --> 00:26:22.170one of the points here in anyespecially this, but any of the kind36300:26:22.210 --> 00:26:27.809of high risk, difficult situations,and we train our sidewalk counselors in the36400:26:27.849 --> 00:26:32.920subwalk missionaries that were bringing into Charlotteto deal with the hard cases, in36500:26:33.000 --> 00:26:37.640any of these hard cases, especiallyagain the medical ones or, you know,36600:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.599fetal diagnosis, like you know ofDown Syndrome, or whatever. We're36700:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.880always encouraging a second opinion. Yes, and with this especially, it's like36800:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.869will get a second opinion because we'vehad situations where we've had moms that were36900:26:49.950 --> 00:26:55.390sent by their ob doctor to theabortion clinic, and that happens a lot,37000:26:55.670 --> 00:26:59.750guys. It happens a lot wheredoctors will send them mom to an37100:26:59.750 --> 00:27:02.460abortion clinic because it's a lot cheaper, I mean, let's face it,37200:27:03.339 --> 00:27:04.940to go to the hospital and haveall that. You know, if even37300:27:04.940 --> 00:27:10.420if they're having we've had doctor senda woman who they said was miscarrying to37400:27:10.500 --> 00:27:12.539the abortion center rather than they're goingto the hospital and have a DNC.37500:27:12.900 --> 00:27:17.849She could have a DNC at theabortion clinic here for like four hundred dollars.37600:27:18.569 --> 00:27:21.369And I remember one young lady shedrove all the way from Virginia to37700:27:21.450 --> 00:27:25.170come here was told by her doctorthat she was miscarrying, her babies already37800:27:25.170 --> 00:27:27.250dead. Thank God we got heron the mobile unit and she ended up37900:27:27.529 --> 00:27:32.599seeing that her baby was actually aliveand she left not having killed her child.38000:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.000Doctors are wrong sometimes, doctors sometimes, I'm not saying all doctors or38100:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.119even most doctors, some, somedoctors have a genda's too, and we38200:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.950need to be careful for that.And, you know, opening up the38300:27:45.990 --> 00:27:48.509door to a second opinion it likeit can't hurt right to be able to38400:27:48.549 --> 00:27:55.750at least have a second opinion,because there is guilt associated with having abortions,38500:27:55.789 --> 00:27:57.980whether or not our culture says that'strue or not, it's a reality.38600:27:59.019 --> 00:28:03.740Yeah, was your doctor concerned itall about a lawsuit? I think38700:28:03.819 --> 00:28:07.940so. I think most doctors areright, because that's immediately why they're going38800:28:07.940 --> 00:28:10.259to go for the quick facts.Let's get it done, that we're not38900:28:10.380 --> 00:28:12.690facing the risks. I've expectant management, because there are risks involved. If39000:28:12.730 --> 00:28:17.130something were to happen right, husbandcould turn around and see them right.39100:28:17.289 --> 00:28:21.450So I always encourage people, ifyou're serious about this, and your doctors39200:28:21.490 --> 00:28:23.650at all hesitant, assure them alawsuit's not going to happen. Is something39300:28:23.690 --> 00:28:27.039where to happen to me right,right, and in this article it talks39400:28:27.079 --> 00:28:34.680about that. It is part ofthe medical I don't know if insurance policy39500:28:34.799 --> 00:28:41.119whatever that a doctor, if hehas two patients, he is not expected39600:28:41.200 --> 00:28:45.549to give equal time and treatment toboth patients. He's he's expected to do39700:28:45.750 --> 00:28:49.470whatever he needs to do to prioritizeto save the patient he's most likely to39800:28:49.549 --> 00:28:55.430save if he's going to lose onetree and he is not suit. He39900:28:55.589 --> 00:29:00.099is not suitabowl. I don't knowwhat you know liable for maybe the the40000:29:00.180 --> 00:29:03.859fact that one patient died because hehad to attend to the needs of the40100:29:03.940 --> 00:29:08.460other. So doctors are really lookingat two patients when they're looking at a40200:29:08.900 --> 00:29:15.569a mom with a PC topic pregnancy. But they're not really. Most doctors40300:29:15.609 --> 00:29:19.490are not viewing it that way.They're looking at the MOM. is their40400:29:19.529 --> 00:29:26.119patient. So what does that sayabout what they're viewing exactly? The the40500:29:26.480 --> 00:29:32.480baby as right and obviously not aperson, not a person, which is40600:29:32.599 --> 00:29:37.200why this is the personhood initiative,because this really does change the kind of40700:29:37.240 --> 00:29:44.990the whole scope of of the discussionexactly. So can you talk about some40800:29:45.190 --> 00:29:52.339of the strengthening biblical you know,support that that you found during that time?40900:29:52.339 --> 00:29:56.700I'm sure it was still a hardit was it was scary days or41000:29:56.740 --> 00:29:59.460whatever, and frightening. Yes,it was scary, but I mean you41100:29:59.539 --> 00:30:02.339just got to go back to scriptureand ask yourself, what would God have41200:30:02.500 --> 00:30:04.460me to do? Well, he'svery clear. Thou shalt not kill there's41300:30:04.500 --> 00:30:08.890no IFANS or butts. So thatwas the primary foundation for making the decision.41400:30:08.890 --> 00:30:12.130IDEA. But some comforting things,you know that I found particularly.41500:30:12.329 --> 00:30:15.410Psalm thousand, one hundred and fifteensays my time is in your hands.41600:30:17.049 --> 00:30:19.730So the Lord has our days numberedand we have to trust in him that,41700:30:19.890 --> 00:30:25.000because we are his child and becausehe aren't, days are already numbered.41800:30:26.200 --> 00:30:27.680We're exactly where God would have isto be. Yeah, now,41900:30:27.720 --> 00:30:30.920if we step outside of that andwe commit murder, we allow someone to42000:30:32.000 --> 00:30:37.589take that baby too early, thenthose days might be numbered less than they42100:30:37.630 --> 00:30:41.910should have been. Right. So, why put yourself at risk? The42200:30:41.990 --> 00:30:44.430safest place to be is in themiddle of God's will. Yeah, so,42300:30:45.430 --> 00:30:49.579and you weren't making a thoughtless orfoolish decision either. You had scriptural42400:30:49.619 --> 00:30:56.259support, but you also had researched. You knew some of what you could42500:30:56.299 --> 00:31:00.500suggest to the doctor. Right,you are armed with knowledge, right arm,42600:31:00.579 --> 00:31:03.490and that's so key to know,and that's why I like to speak42700:31:03.490 --> 00:31:07.450about it. You know to othersthat they are armed at there ever,42800:31:07.690 --> 00:31:11.650based with with something like this.Yeah, and you've had other high risk42900:31:11.730 --> 00:31:15.650pregnancies having right right. Yeah,I do have. You've dealt with a43000:31:15.089 --> 00:31:19.680lot. So you could speak knowledgeablyabout this whole exception of the life of43100:31:19.799 --> 00:31:23.680a mother. Right, my lifeis of equal worth in God's eyes as43200:31:23.759 --> 00:31:27.559my baby's. So, yeah,I'mborn or born. So yeah, always43300:31:27.759 --> 00:31:32.319let the Lord have control of thatand he'll guide you. He'll you know,43400:31:32.440 --> 00:31:33.630you're safest in the palm of hishand, right there in the middle43500:31:33.630 --> 00:31:40.630of his well. So right,Amen. Yeah, we certainly practice what43600:31:40.710 --> 00:31:47.859you preach and we should, andI think this conversation will help others to43700:31:48.140 --> 00:31:52.180continue to just uphold the value ofhuman life, because it can create some43800:31:52.420 --> 00:31:57.819some dilemmas in our minds when westart to kind of chip away that value43900:31:57.859 --> 00:32:00.730of human life and we start toleave exceptions. I mean, the reality44000:32:00.890 --> 00:32:05.609is that Rovy Wade back in onethousand nine hundred and seventy three was based44100:32:05.690 --> 00:32:08.809solely on the exceptions, the thingsthat a lot of people that would say44200:32:08.809 --> 00:32:15.170even that their pro life would leavehis exceptions for abortions. But if it44300:32:15.210 --> 00:32:20.400less than one percent, yeah,I'm all the reason for abortion, these44400:32:20.519 --> 00:32:22.799these exceptions. Yeah, yeah,so, rape in sastright health of the44500:32:22.880 --> 00:32:30.029mother. Right, those are thethings that open the floodgates of ultimately nationwide44600:32:30.029 --> 00:32:36.150child sacrifice at these abortion centers.And so, as pro lifers, as44700:32:36.230 --> 00:32:39.470people that believe, as Christians thatbelieve that human life has value, those44800:32:39.509 --> 00:32:44.460exceptions can't be can't be something thatwe stand on, something that we allow.44900:32:44.500 --> 00:32:47.859We have to uphold the standard oftruth that God is in charge,45000:32:47.859 --> 00:32:52.259he is the one that holds lifeand death in his hands and we as45100:32:52.259 --> 00:32:55.299a society don't have a right totake the innocent lives of children, even45200:32:55.339 --> 00:33:01.490if there's some extenuating circumstances. Justdealing quickly with the issue of rape,45300:33:02.009 --> 00:33:07.089because that is probably the BIS biggestexception that we hear. You know,45400:33:07.490 --> 00:33:09.849I was raped, so therefore it'sokay. But a child who's WHO's the45500:33:09.930 --> 00:33:14.880result of rape is no different thana child who's not. If I were45600:33:14.920 --> 00:33:16.559to show you a baby in thewomb that was the result of wet rape45700:33:16.599 --> 00:33:20.640and a baby in the womb thatwas not, you would see no difference.45800:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.480And in the same way, ababy that's conceived and ends up and45900:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.710actopic pregnancy situation is no less valuablethan a baby that's in the uterus.46000:33:28.750 --> 00:33:31.910Your location does not determine your value. Yes, again, it's a difficult46100:33:31.950 --> 00:33:37.390situation, but we need to approachthat situation from a Biblical and God honoring46200:33:37.430 --> 00:33:43.339perspective and I believe what you've sharedis has been just that. Yeah,46300:33:43.660 --> 00:33:45.980can I ask you, just becauseas he was talking, I was thinking46400:33:46.059 --> 00:33:52.420back to your experience and you hadjust a couple of days and that before46500:33:52.460 --> 00:33:55.970you knew that your child had died. But in in the case of a46600:33:57.089 --> 00:34:02.170mom whose child is still growing inthe tube, what do they tell you,46700:34:02.410 --> 00:34:05.250because I'm sure they did tell you, what do you look for?46800:34:05.609 --> 00:34:10.079What do you in your expectant management? What sorts of things are you to46900:34:10.199 --> 00:34:15.119be aware of to protect yourself andto know when to call the doctor,47000:34:15.239 --> 00:34:19.440when it rout, to go tothe Yar whatever? Well, you're being47100:34:19.480 --> 00:34:22.599pretty closely monitored. So they're takingyour HCG levels every other day. If47200:34:22.679 --> 00:34:28.510they're dropping, obviously the baby isin the process of dying, if or47300:34:28.670 --> 00:34:31.630is already gone. If but ifthey're climbing, of course the baby's growing.47400:34:31.750 --> 00:34:35.070That determines a lot of things rightthere as to what they'll tell you47500:34:35.110 --> 00:34:38.500to look for. But bleeding wouldbe a major thing. increase pain and47600:34:38.699 --> 00:34:43.940cramping would be something to look forwardto. Our look for and then they47700:34:43.980 --> 00:34:45.900would instruct you to go to theemergency room at that point. So how47800:34:45.940 --> 00:34:50.619much time do you have, saywhen these symptoms says they're accelerate? It47900:34:50.699 --> 00:34:53.610depends at what, you know,how badly the tube has ruptured, because48000:34:53.610 --> 00:34:58.610sometimes I can just be a littlenick you know in the in the tube,48100:34:58.690 --> 00:35:00.530or it can really, you know, be much more serious. Get,48200:35:00.650 --> 00:35:04.090you know, some kind of ablood vessel or whatever, and that48300:35:04.130 --> 00:35:07.880can be much more serious. Soit kind of it's it really depends.48400:35:07.159 --> 00:35:10.800Some ruptures are worse than others.Yeah, yeah, do they hospitalized mom?48500:35:10.960 --> 00:35:14.679Sometimes they do keep them in thehospital for that expected. Yes,48600:35:14.840 --> 00:35:17.400spent time? Yes, yes,especially if the baby's bigger. So yeah,48700:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.070before we wrap this up, andyou may may or may not be48800:35:22.230 --> 00:35:28.429able to share, but if youcan, please share, maybe without giving48900:35:28.510 --> 00:35:35.309specifics, a situation you've encountered withthe mom that has head a nick topic49000:35:35.349 --> 00:35:40.539pregnancy at the abortion center or somehowyou were connected with that person and how49100:35:40.619 --> 00:35:45.699you kind of talk them through andwalk them through that that situation. Well,49200:35:45.739 --> 00:35:47.539I'm always quick to point out,you know, if your doctor is49300:35:47.579 --> 00:35:52.329told you you have a Tu bullecktopic pregnancy and you're coming to an ambulatory49400:35:52.369 --> 00:35:55.610surgical center for an abortion. Whatare they going what procedure are they going49500:35:55.610 --> 00:36:00.010to do on you and there?Normally they're telling me that they're coming for49600:36:00.449 --> 00:36:05.840a surgical abortion. Well, thatjust sends up a bunch of red flags49700:36:05.880 --> 00:36:08.280because of the babies outside of theuterus. You can't do a surgical abortion.49800:36:08.760 --> 00:36:12.639Now if they're telling them to gothere for a medical abortion, even49900:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.239that has some really iffy things becauseyou're going home to labor and deliver that50000:36:16.360 --> 00:36:22.110baby on your own. And soI'm pointing out these these cracks in their50100:36:22.510 --> 00:36:27.789treatment plan to where that mom couldend up harmed anyway. Yeah, doing50200:36:27.869 --> 00:36:30.550the medical abortion or going through witha surgical abortion where that baby still growing50300:36:30.590 --> 00:36:34.219in that tube and didn't you didn'tsolve anything they thought they were going to50400:36:34.260 --> 00:36:37.300solve. So you really got todig deep and see what they've been told50500:36:37.739 --> 00:36:40.340where the location of the baby is, which is why it's always good to50600:36:40.340 --> 00:36:44.179get a second opinion. Yeah,to make sure that baby is where they50700:36:44.179 --> 00:36:49.449said it was. And then Ijust remind them that it's not within our50800:36:50.289 --> 00:36:52.369control, or it's not been givento us by God to call whether or50900:36:52.409 --> 00:36:58.369not this baby should be executed,and we are only supposed to support life51000:36:58.570 --> 00:37:00.920and we need to find someone who'sgoing to back us up, you know,51100:37:01.119 --> 00:37:06.199and and and a line who hasthe treatment plan that aligns with God's.51200:37:06.760 --> 00:37:10.079So I'm always just quick to getthem into a second opinion to a51300:37:10.159 --> 00:37:14.960good doctor who's going to determine what'sbest for them and what's best for that51400:37:15.079 --> 00:37:19.469baby. Yeah, I mean it'scertainly a situation where. I mean again,51500:37:19.510 --> 00:37:25.190I've encountered these situations and it's neverif it's a real situation, because51600:37:25.190 --> 00:37:28.550sometimes I've been lied to. You. You know, you have to Vicky,51700:37:28.590 --> 00:37:30.099I'm sure you have to. ornow it's thinking old she was talking51800:37:30.179 --> 00:37:34.420with her questions to them. I'msure you've uncovered people that right. He51900:37:34.539 --> 00:37:38.019thought this is just another excuse.Yeah, really, trying to make you52000:37:38.059 --> 00:37:42.059feel bad for talking to them aboutgoing into the abortion center. But in52100:37:42.139 --> 00:37:45.010the situations where I've encountered, andthey've been very few and far between,52200:37:45.329 --> 00:37:49.570where it's been legit and it's beena genuine situation, it's never that they're52300:37:49.570 --> 00:37:52.210coming to me and talking to meand some proud and arrogant way they're already52400:37:52.289 --> 00:37:57.050broken. Yeah, right, there'salready a heaviness about them and I make52500:37:57.130 --> 00:38:00.719sure just be very intentional with mylanguage. I'm not coming across as condemning52600:38:00.000 --> 00:38:06.800or as judge or whatever we wantto identify. And again, we train52700:38:06.960 --> 00:38:12.320folks in all of these hard casesto have compassion, to identify with their52800:38:12.320 --> 00:38:15.150struggle and all of that. Butit really gets to the point where,52900:38:15.190 --> 00:38:17.909when I'm talking to a mom goinginto an abortion center, a dad whose53000:38:17.949 --> 00:38:22.190girlfriend or wife's going into the abortioncenter, is that you're going to a53100:38:22.230 --> 00:38:24.230place of darkness, you're going intoa place of death. Yeah, I53200:38:24.349 --> 00:38:28.900know you probably wanted to keep thisbaby. That's often time the case and53300:38:29.019 --> 00:38:32.820these situations I've encountered. And soyou want to keep this child and you're53400:38:32.860 --> 00:38:36.500broken hearted because you're not going tobe able to. You don't think that53500:38:36.579 --> 00:38:37.980you're going to be able to.You're going into a place full of people53600:38:38.260 --> 00:38:43.489that don't want to keep their children. You're subjecting yourself to doctors. I53700:38:43.610 --> 00:38:45.730mean, wow, if you gothrough the track record or some of these53800:38:45.769 --> 00:38:49.769doctors. A matter of fact,one of the doctors here at the latrobe53900:38:49.769 --> 00:38:53.570abortion center is actually responsible for thedeath of a woman. I don't know54000:38:53.570 --> 00:38:59.199if you knew this, but heactually a woman came to his clinic and54100:38:59.719 --> 00:39:02.599had a necktopic pregnancy. This islike two thousand and six and he gave54200:39:02.639 --> 00:39:07.679her the abortion pill and then shecame back because she was still pregnant.54300:39:07.679 --> 00:39:10.789The abortion pill apparently didn't work andso he gave a surgical abortion to an54400:39:10.789 --> 00:39:14.909empty uterus. He didn't do hisdue diligence to find out that she had54500:39:14.909 --> 00:39:17.469a necktopic pregnancy. Well, becausethe abortion peop will never work on on54600:39:17.909 --> 00:39:22.230an neck topic pregnancy. It's adifferent pill, correct somewhat. Yeah,54700:39:22.510 --> 00:39:25.420so she ultimately, as far asthe little bit of Digg in that we've54800:39:25.460 --> 00:39:29.699done, her flipping to ruptured andshe died. She bled to death.54900:39:30.699 --> 00:39:35.780So you don't want abortionists, people, they get paid to kill people's children,55000:39:36.699 --> 00:39:40.010to oversee your ectopic pregnancy. Andif that's a genuine thing that you're55100:39:40.010 --> 00:39:45.570dealing with or that a mom thatas a sidewalk counselor that you're ministering to,55200:39:45.329 --> 00:39:49.050then she needs to go to areal doctor, she needs to be55300:39:49.130 --> 00:39:52.559overseen by a hospital or by areal doctor, not an abortion clinic,55400:39:53.239 --> 00:39:57.719not an abortionist. And I willsay if you've been referred to an abortion55500:39:57.800 --> 00:40:01.519clinic by your doctor, because theytell you that that pregnancy is out of55600:40:01.559 --> 00:40:05.599the uterus. Isn't a topic pregnancy. That should send up some warning flags55700:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.510to you will because, yes,no good doctor is going to do that55800:40:07.670 --> 00:40:12.110in the case, I'm an ectopicpregnancy. Yes, yeah, exactly,55900:40:12.190 --> 00:40:15.909sadly, I mean, the abortioncenter is probably the cheapest place for them56000:40:15.989 --> 00:40:22.179to go and have that baby removed, right, as opposed to the hide56100:40:22.219 --> 00:40:25.099it can't even be done in atopic circumstances. Right, right, kind56200:40:25.139 --> 00:40:28.900of right. You gotta think.Why do they want me? Yeah,56300:40:28.940 --> 00:40:32.380yeah, only if I guess,they they would refer. Only if I'm56400:40:32.380 --> 00:40:37.489assuming on as a really terrible doctor. They are. Are they are referring?56500:40:37.849 --> 00:40:39.090Correct me if I'm wrong. Ifthe baby is so small, so56600:40:39.289 --> 00:40:45.849young, that the medication can still, mean safely taken, is that might56700:40:45.889 --> 00:40:49.570be yes, okay, yes,although you should still be under the care56800:40:49.610 --> 00:40:52.840of a Doctor Shul later the methodtracks say is given, and I don't56900:40:52.840 --> 00:40:55.159even think they think that's the drugthey use there anyway. So, yeah,57000:40:55.159 --> 00:41:00.559yeah, all right. Well,we hope we gave you guys some57100:41:00.679 --> 00:41:04.670information to chew want to think about, to pray about, and we hope57200:41:04.710 --> 00:41:07.750you guys will dig into this articlethat we're going to post. It's called57300:41:07.869 --> 00:41:13.269Ectopic personhood and it's from the personhoodinitiative. So if for some reason you57400:41:13.590 --> 00:41:16.429guys don't see it in the shownotes of this podcast, maybe your access57500:41:16.469 --> 00:41:22.340in this podcast on some other platformthan apple podcasts. Certainly you can just57600:41:22.579 --> 00:41:27.900google search it and you'll find it. Share this podcast with folks that you57700:41:27.980 --> 00:41:30.659know. Maybe it'll be a blessingto someone and reach out to us.57800:41:31.179 --> 00:41:35.250You can reach out to me dparks at cities for lifecom. You reach57900:41:35.329 --> 00:41:37.929out to her VCASI ORG at citiesfor lifecom. We'd love to hear from58000:41:37.929 --> 00:41:42.849you guys. We'd love to hearsome suggestions of topics that we can cover58100:41:43.610 --> 00:41:45.730and we'd love to hear what youguys think about the podcast. Maybe some58200:41:45.849 --> 00:41:50.199things we can improve. And justbefore wrap it up, I want to58300:41:50.199 --> 00:41:52.559thank you again, Lisa, forcoming. Can I appreciate you taking time58400:41:52.599 --> 00:41:57.760away from your family to come andshare and again, just ended off,58500:41:57.920 --> 00:42:00.670we're not medical professionals, so we'renot pretending to be. We don't play58600:42:01.030 --> 00:42:07.670medical professionals on TV. This isnot a medical professional podcast, but it58700:42:07.750 --> 00:42:09.590is a gospel center pro life podcastand so we hope it was a blessing,58800:42:09.630 --> 00:42:17.179you guess, and so until nexttime, God bless give me our58900:42:17.500 --> 00:42:30.690love for love, give me ourlove for gratitude. I know it will59000:42:30.849 --> 00:42:38.329cost me my life. Nothing's tooprecious in some you