Sept. 23, 2021

Interview with A Post-abortive Sidewalk Counselor

Interview with A Post-abortive Sidewalk Counselor

God has given us so many amazing people that serve on the sidewalks. These folks often come from very broken backgrounds but have been redeemed by the Lord and want to honor Him by serving in this ministry. Jen has been serving in Charlotte for about...


God has given us so many amazing people that serve on the sidewalks. These folks often come from very broken backgrounds but have been redeemed by the Lord and want to honor Him by serving in this ministry. Jen has been serving in Charlotte for about 2 years and has a powerful testimony of how God redeemed her from past abortions and now how He uses her to reach others at the abortion centers. Join us for this insightful interview. 

https://lovelife.org/restoredlife 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.799 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. S and me, 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:11.349 Lord, I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the 3 00:00:11.429 --> 00:00:17.309 Gospel Center Pray Life Podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge 4 00:00:17.350 --> 00:00:20.910 you in pray life ministry, and always with a focus on the Gospel. 5 00:00:21.109 --> 00:00:32.060 Stay tuned. I felt show passish, touch your heart. Use Me. 6 00:00:36.049 --> 00:00:39.649 Welcome back to the Gospel Center pray life podcast. You appreciate you guys listening 7 00:00:39.770 --> 00:00:43.609 and tuning in to this podcast and, as always, would appreciate if you 8 00:00:43.609 --> 00:00:47.369 guys would share this episode of this podcast. I'm not going to labor long 9 00:00:47.490 --> 00:00:51.359 with the introduction because we have a special guest that's going to be sharing her 10 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:56.560 story, sharing her testimony, and so we think that this will be a 11 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:59.960 blessing you guys, because we've gotten, you know, a lot of feedback 12 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.120 from testimonies and folks that have shared their testimonies on the podcast over the past 13 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:08.790 what two years, and it's been been all positive and people's life experiences and 14 00:01:11.069 --> 00:01:14.510 what the Lord has brought them through is a great blessing and encouragement. We 15 00:01:14.510 --> 00:01:18.819 see it throughout the whole scripture, right testimonies of how God uses people how 16 00:01:18.859 --> 00:01:23.060 God uses past experiences even and how God's a redeemer. So we're going to 17 00:01:23.099 --> 00:01:26.939 jump into that and hopefully well know so, knowing Jim just her heart to 18 00:01:26.019 --> 00:01:30.739 serve the Lord, that you guys are going to be encouraged and even challenged 19 00:01:30.900 --> 00:01:34.890 in your ministry, on the sidewalks or whatever capacity where you're operating and speaking 20 00:01:34.930 --> 00:01:40.010 for those who can't speak for themselves. But, Vicky, why don't you 21 00:01:40.129 --> 00:01:44.049 real quick? Just introduced Jin and then we'll give give jen the the floor 22 00:01:44.090 --> 00:01:48.040 and let her share her story and will be asking some questions throughout and stuff 23 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:51.400 like that, and just do let you guys know. Need to mention this. 24 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:55.000 We are recording remotely, doing the best we can with sound qualities, 25 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:57.640 but if things are a little weird or Wonky, we apologize. We're doing 26 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:01.629 the best we can, with me here in Californi on the left coast and 27 00:02:01.790 --> 00:02:07.109 these ladies in the promised land on it. We're hope the audio will be 28 00:02:07.189 --> 00:02:09.469 great in the connections good, but if not, it's still going to be 29 00:02:09.509 --> 00:02:13.110 a blessing. It's going to be worth listening to, even if you have 30 00:02:13.270 --> 00:02:17.300 to listen past a little little weird audio glitches and whatnot. So, all 31 00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:21.099 right, we gain it, sure will. So so, yeah, so. 32 00:02:21.580 --> 00:02:24.500 So we are with Jen Erwin, and I've known you, what about 33 00:02:24.500 --> 00:02:29.539 a year, Jen, you've been you've been cheering like this almost two years. 34 00:02:29.819 --> 00:02:34.689 Almost two years. So void time flies, doesn't yeah. So. 35 00:02:35.169 --> 00:02:39.050 So Jen has been volunteering with us for about two years off and on Saturdays, 36 00:02:39.129 --> 00:02:46.319 since she is just a firebrand on fire for the Lord and you know, 37 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:52.439 the the councilors that work alongside her just continually tell me that she is. 38 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:59.189 She is not afraid to boldly speak the truth, but then is able 39 00:02:59.310 --> 00:03:02.750 to be very soft and compassionate with the women when they when they come over 40 00:03:02.909 --> 00:03:07.150 and talk with her as well. And and I think you'll find out maybe 41 00:03:07.150 --> 00:03:12.349 a little bit of why that is the case as as Gen tells us her 42 00:03:12.430 --> 00:03:15.340 story. But she has been a real blessing to us, not only as 43 00:03:15.340 --> 00:03:22.659 a volunteer out on the sidewalk, but she volunteered to post and perfect the 44 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:29.050 articles that we write almost every week, and that means perfection comes when we're 45 00:03:29.050 --> 00:03:34.530 in the heavenly kingdom. Right, maybe heard of perfect at a worldly level, 46 00:03:36.169 --> 00:03:43.840 as best as they can be amen, but I am certainly technologically challenged 47 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:47.840 and what would take me hours to get those articles out. Jen does in 48 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:52.800 about five minutes, probably a little bit longer. I don't want to sell 49 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:54.949 her short, but so so. She's been a total blessing to us on 50 00:03:55.069 --> 00:04:00.669 so many levels. And she had asked a I don't know, about a 51 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:03.270 month ago. She said, do you ever have guessed on your podcast? 52 00:04:03.349 --> 00:04:09.349 Which yes, indeed we do, and so that she had a story she 53 00:04:09.469 --> 00:04:13.939 really wanted to tell and she told us a little bit about that. She 54 00:04:14.060 --> 00:04:20.939 is a post aboard of woman and and has really quite a pretty dramatic testimony 55 00:04:21.139 --> 00:04:26.129 that I think will, like Daniel said, true, the be a blessing 56 00:04:26.250 --> 00:04:30.970 for us not to only hear the her background and and what happened in her 57 00:04:30.089 --> 00:04:36.889 past, but then where she's gone from there and and how the Lord redeemed, 58 00:04:36.930 --> 00:04:43.680 as he's so wonderfully Canon and will when we when we call upon him. 59 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.839 So so, Jen, you know, maybe just start just if you 60 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:51.040 would mind just kind of giving us a summary of your story. Sure, 61 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:55.230 sure. Well, first I want to say thank you so much for having 62 00:04:55.350 --> 00:05:00.069 me. This has been a labor of love really meeting you all and being 63 00:05:00.110 --> 00:05:05.069 out on sidewalk with so many wonderful God fearing men and women, but of 64 00:05:05.230 --> 00:05:11.860 course it also is a little scary putting yourself out there and but I really 65 00:05:11.899 --> 00:05:15.060 had to just pray and be mindful that. You know, the word of 66 00:05:15.180 --> 00:05:19.379 our testimony is Christ because Christ is the word right. It's not anything to 67 00:05:19.459 --> 00:05:26.569 do with us, no matter how dramatic or terrible our lives have been because 68 00:05:26.569 --> 00:05:29.730 of the choices that we've made, but it's really it points right back to 69 00:05:29.769 --> 00:05:34.610 him. Yes, so, yeah, so I think when I was fourteen 70 00:05:34.649 --> 00:05:40.399 years old, my family and I moved from the Midwest to North Carolina. 71 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:46.399 My mom was born and reared in this area and you know, as a 72 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:48.439 child, I'll leave him. I'll kind of shortly summarize, I guess, 73 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:54.589 or summarize that the childhood my I grew up as the oldest of three kids 74 00:05:55.230 --> 00:06:00.750 and my father was an extremely rigid Christian. He was a second lieutenant in 75 00:06:00.829 --> 00:06:08.300 the army and just approached the Gospel, or the Bible as it were, 76 00:06:09.339 --> 00:06:15.220 from the perspective of the law. So it was, you know, kind 77 00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:18.529 of like a you know, we saluted our father from the time I can 78 00:06:18.610 --> 00:06:23.370 remember, from you know, probably I've worked camouflage diverse for for all anybody 79 00:06:23.449 --> 00:06:30.209 to really know, but so it was just a very rigid approach to Christ 80 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:36.720 and to God and more so, that God was someone to be feared and 81 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:42.319 you know, if we didn't get right with God, we were we were 82 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:46.519 going to be taken out like he would not deal with sin and and and 83 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:50.069 our lives might very well be cut short because of that. So not a 84 00:06:50.189 --> 00:06:55.230 lot of Gospel love, not a lot of compassion, not a lot of 85 00:06:55.550 --> 00:06:59.870 cross. I mean I heard nothing of the Cross and the salvation of of 86 00:06:59.990 --> 00:07:02.699 Christ ever in my whole childhood. It was just, you know, law, 87 00:07:02.699 --> 00:07:06.379 La Lah. And I'm not saying that the laws not applicable, nor 88 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:12.819 am I saying does the law matter. It very much matters. But Christ 89 00:07:12.939 --> 00:07:15.250 is the Bible from beginning to end, right, so all that points to 90 00:07:15.329 --> 00:07:18.930 him. So when we were when I was fourteen, we moved to this 91 00:07:19.009 --> 00:07:25.930 area and then that was actually the first time that I tried drugs, fourteen 92 00:07:25.930 --> 00:07:28.769 years old, coming out of a youth group, believe it or not, 93 00:07:29.329 --> 00:07:33.639 and tried marijuana with another friend on the church property that we had. Happened 94 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:39.680 at that time? Yeah, and nothing really happened. And then I started 95 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:46.389 dating a guy and lost my virginity at sixteen. But we dated for about 96 00:07:46.389 --> 00:07:49.990 a year. Of course, he professed his undying love for me and and 97 00:07:50.509 --> 00:07:56.829 you know, the heart felt just the relationship was so wonderful and that young 98 00:07:56.990 --> 00:07:59.779 love, and then when we broke up, he broke up with me, 99 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:07.939 I just kind of I just went completely off the rails and so, you 100 00:08:09.019 --> 00:08:15.490 know, it started little by little with drinking and marijuana and then progressed over 101 00:08:15.769 --> 00:08:20.170 a three year period that I was really into some hard stuff, almost four 102 00:08:20.170 --> 00:08:24.689 years, so the time I was about twenty, almost twenty one. Where 103 00:08:24.689 --> 00:08:28.319 you killing your parents aware of all of this or any of this at the 104 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:33.759 time? Well, you know, I think kids, especially teenagers, think 105 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:35.919 that they have the world by the tail and they think they can lie. 106 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:41.470 Well, so I thought that I had the wool pulled over their eyes. 107 00:08:41.669 --> 00:08:45.870 Yeah, but I don't think that I did. There were weekends that I 108 00:08:45.909 --> 00:08:50.789 would not come home and ironically, my mom actually drove up to this convenient 109 00:08:50.909 --> 00:08:56.220 store right down the street from our house and she saw a police officer sitting 110 00:08:56.220 --> 00:09:00.019 there, and this was probably two o'clock in the morning on one Saturday morning 111 00:09:00.019 --> 00:09:03.700 after I didn't come home that Friday night and she begged him to find me 112 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:09.659 and she actually sat in the back of the police car begging this officer to 113 00:09:09.820 --> 00:09:13.330 help, to help her, and he said sorry, got to wait however 114 00:09:13.450 --> 00:09:18.090 long before we follow missing person's report. But she has eighteen, she can 115 00:09:18.450 --> 00:09:24.639 do what she wants. So that picture of my mother sitting in this police 116 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.200 car just still horrifies me to this day. But you know, the mom 117 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.840 almost being like a prisoner herself, you know, trying to find her daughter. 118 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:39.750 So but I do think that they found out, and very quickly. 119 00:09:39.830 --> 00:09:43.509 After all of that incident with the with the cops, I got into another 120 00:09:43.669 --> 00:09:48.710 relationship, through a friend of a friend, with a guy who was a 121 00:09:48.870 --> 00:09:56.539 little younger than I was, who was a self proclaimed Neo Nazi skinhead, 122 00:09:56.539 --> 00:10:05.779 and he got extremely angry with me one night for speaking to a friend at 123 00:10:05.820 --> 00:10:11.490 a party who was African American, and I suffered the consequences greatly. After 124 00:10:11.649 --> 00:10:16.450 it was over and went back to his house and he just beat me senselessly. 125 00:10:18.090 --> 00:10:22.120 I had a dislocated shoulder, some broken ribs and nice huge shiner and 126 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.360 you know, but the whole time I'm just thinking, you know, I 127 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:33.080 can save this guy, I can save him and and drawing from my childhood 128 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.789 experiences of Church and I was raised in the Church and, you know, 129 00:10:37.029 --> 00:10:41.629 just just wondering what I could do or say to get him to love me, 130 00:10:41.710 --> 00:10:48.870 to bring him out of this evil. And I remember sitting up in 131 00:10:48.269 --> 00:10:52.580 bed one night and just thinking to myself, is this is this? It 132 00:10:54.220 --> 00:11:01.500 is this my life, not even really being aware of God or the spirit, 133 00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:07.850 but but just trying to wrap my mind around why I was feeling differently 134 00:11:07.929 --> 00:11:11.529 all of a sudden. So I think God, you know, God brings 135 00:11:11.570 --> 00:11:16.490 you to certain places in your life and allows you literally to self destruct. 136 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:20.519 He will allow you to selfdestrug before he reaches in. But even at that 137 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:26.559 point I had not I had not really grasped the concept of salvation or what 138 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:31.559 that even looked like for me. So you want me to continue? Well, 139 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.870 so it's some point. Obviously we're our focus is on, you know, 140 00:11:37.029 --> 00:11:41.429 the post aboard of experience, but this is a this is the backdrop 141 00:11:41.549 --> 00:11:43.950 for for everything that really led to that. So I assume at some point 142 00:11:45.149 --> 00:11:48.460 that pregnant. Yes, I did. Yeah, I got I actually got 143 00:11:48.539 --> 00:11:52.580 married and had a son who's now twenty. He'll be twenty eight next okay, 144 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:58.700 but my husband wanted a divorce soon after and of course, as we 145 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:03.570 separated, I quickly got into another relationship with a man and that is who 146 00:12:03.690 --> 00:12:09.129 I got pregnant by, and so it was subsequently that relationship that led to 147 00:12:11.049 --> 00:12:16.879 the decision to abort. He didn't want to be a father and I didn't 148 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.879 argue. I drove myself to the abortion clinic each and every time, three 149 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:24.919 times, and you know, I remember, especially having the experience now, 150 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.149 on the sidewalk. I remember there were no Christians there on the sidewalks then, 151 00:12:31.909 --> 00:12:35.830 you know, and Oh how I wish there would have been, right, 152 00:12:35.870 --> 00:12:39.190 yeah, but no one preaching the Gospel, no one telling me what 153 00:12:39.309 --> 00:12:43.549 I was doing was wrong. It was just sort of walk in, handle 154 00:12:43.590 --> 00:12:46.820 it and take care of what you needed to take care of se could get 155 00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:48.820 on with your life. Yeah, we were there any toughs of God as 156 00:12:48.899 --> 00:12:52.779 you're walking in, or any concern that maybe this was not what he would 157 00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:56.500 have you do? Did he enter the thought process at all? You know, 158 00:12:56.659 --> 00:13:01.169 Vicky, he really did not. I was a single mother at that 159 00:13:01.289 --> 00:13:03.090 time. I was working at a job that I wasn't making a lot of 160 00:13:03.169 --> 00:13:07.850 money. I was living in an apartment just trying to make ends meet. 161 00:13:07.529 --> 00:13:11.730 I didn't feel comfortable a hundred percent comfortable that my boyfriend at that time was 162 00:13:11.769 --> 00:13:15.759 committed that to me. So there was the fear of, you know, 163 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:18.159 losing him, knowing that this is what he wanted me to do, and 164 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:26.669 then I again just that overwhelming anxiety of rearing all these children by myself right 165 00:13:26.789 --> 00:13:31.870 and not knowing what to do with with that. Yeah, yeah, I 166 00:13:31.950 --> 00:13:35.190 want to pipe in real quick and just mentioned for those who are listening, 167 00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:39.629 to help you guys understand, like there's a lot of value and what you're 168 00:13:39.710 --> 00:13:45.779 hearing, because Jin is, you know, in her past, just like 169 00:13:45.940 --> 00:13:50.220 many of you, was of the mindset of the women that we see at 170 00:13:50.259 --> 00:13:54.460 the abortion centers, obviously walking in selfishness, but also we have to acknowledge 171 00:13:54.980 --> 00:14:00.009 that there were some deep hurts, there were some difficult situations, there were 172 00:14:00.090 --> 00:14:03.690 some stuff that, you know, the world would use to justify abortion. 173 00:14:03.730 --> 00:14:05.529 Sure, and so we have to, in the sense, meet these women, 174 00:14:05.929 --> 00:14:09.240 women like Jin in her past, like many of you, where they're 175 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.879 at. And there is that importance of the balance between grace and truth, 176 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.039 like we've of course, want to say abortion is murder, but we also 177 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:24.629 have to understand that there are some difficult experiences that these women are coming from 178 00:14:24.830 --> 00:14:28.950 and going back into and we got to acknowledge that and I think you sharing 179 00:14:28.990 --> 00:14:33.710 your story, Gin, can really help us just and to remind us that 180 00:14:33.830 --> 00:14:37.590 these these situations are not as cut and dry as a woman got pregnant, 181 00:14:37.590 --> 00:14:39.899 she wants to kill her baby. Right. Here's another nob just some stuff. 182 00:14:41.019 --> 00:14:43.620 No one just automatically wakes up one morning pregnant goes I'm going to have 183 00:14:43.659 --> 00:14:48.620 an abortion just because. Right, exactly right. Well, and the irony 184 00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:54.809 of part of this is my father taught genesis to seven. That was he 185 00:14:56.049 --> 00:14:58.570 believed that the baby, and this is the same argument that the that the 186 00:14:58.690 --> 00:15:03.450 pro abortion crowd uses, he believed that that baby was not a baby, 187 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:07.559 based on Genesis to seven, which says then the Lord God formed the man 188 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:09.759 of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. 189 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:18.679 HMM. So there was absolutely no emotional connection to the Bible or any type 190 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:24.070 of that type of conviction, because I believed that a baby was not a 191 00:15:24.110 --> 00:15:28.350 baby until he or she took its first breath, based on the way. 192 00:15:28.509 --> 00:15:33.070 Now, now I also want a preference or follow up by saying I don't 193 00:15:33.110 --> 00:15:37.100 blame my father for the decisions that I made. Yeah, right. So, 194 00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:39.940 so let me just also say that, knowing that now, but but 195 00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:46.100 that was what he put into my heart from very early on. Yeah, 196 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:50.769 yeah, so at the Times you're walking into that abortion center, if someone 197 00:15:50.889 --> 00:15:54.649 had said do you know God, how would you have answered that? Sure, 198 00:15:56.450 --> 00:15:58.730 yes, so you would have said yes, and we hear that right 199 00:15:58.250 --> 00:16:02.169 all the time, of the women walking in at least to hear in the 200 00:16:02.250 --> 00:16:06.840 Bible about the yes, they they consider themselves Christians. And indeed that was 201 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.360 what you would have said Jordan, as you're and you had three, three 202 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:17.720 abortions, and so there's obviously a disconnect between so what what happened that then? 203 00:16:18.909 --> 00:16:22.710 Did you go merrily on your way and meet a wonderful man, or 204 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:26.950 or did something start to change in your heart, in your feelings about what 205 00:16:27.190 --> 00:16:33.259 had transpired in that abortion center? Well, I did. After that relationship, 206 00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:37.779 of course, broke up. He cheated on me, you know, 207 00:16:38.059 --> 00:16:45.980 not surprisingly right, and I really kind of fell into just this deep sadness 208 00:16:45.139 --> 00:16:52.809 because not even maybe partially because of the failed relationship, but you know, 209 00:16:52.970 --> 00:17:00.809 the tide of abortions, guilt rises very high, right and it and it 210 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:08.079 threatens to engulf a woman's entire life. Yeah, and with shame and regret, 211 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.920 you know, and those feelings of unworthy in this. So I just 212 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:17.269 got to a place where I was carrying around so much shame and guilt and 213 00:17:17.470 --> 00:17:22.269 I just cried out to God and couldn't understand really why I was feeling all 214 00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:26.269 these things. Things will come to find out. It was just this culmination 215 00:17:26.869 --> 00:17:32.259 of the sin. So it was not directly, in your mind, yet 216 00:17:32.539 --> 00:17:37.420 related to the abortion. Yeah, and that was my experience as well. 217 00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:41.980 So I imagine that that is not an uncommon experience, that there was that 218 00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:47.250 same what you described, a rising tide of shame. Yeah, self, 219 00:17:47.410 --> 00:17:55.009 revulsion, even suicidal desire. But I never, I initially did not connect 220 00:17:55.009 --> 00:17:59.039 it with the abortion. But what happened to you? where, at some 221 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.200 point, did you then connect that with with the abortions themselves? Yeah, 222 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.799 I did. I think that because I had to write you. You really 223 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:14.750 have to. There is some self reflection someone. But the Lord revealed my 224 00:18:15.430 --> 00:18:22.230 wicked state to me and the things that I had done, and he absolutely 225 00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:26.910 brought it to the forefront. I was I was crushed. I was just 226 00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:32.299 crushed under the, like I said, the unworthiness and that regret begging the 227 00:18:32.420 --> 00:18:36.299 Lord, even at times just take me out. There's nothing that I can 228 00:18:36.420 --> 00:18:41.529 do for your kingdom. I am I am a piece of trash. Please 229 00:18:41.650 --> 00:18:44.609 just take me out. You know, I would beg him to kill me. 230 00:18:45.250 --> 00:18:48.089 Really. Yeah, that's where I was. But then he just opens 231 00:18:48.130 --> 00:18:53.690 up that light and you know, we have to seek Jesus, we have 232 00:18:53.890 --> 00:18:57.599 to we have to listen to his call. You know, Paul spoke about 233 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:03.160 that in Second Corinthians twelve, about the thorn in the flesh. And why 234 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:10.390 does he give us that thorn? Spiritual burdens are often ordered by the Lord 235 00:19:10.630 --> 00:19:14.509 to cure spiritual pride, and I think that I walked around with just this 236 00:19:14.710 --> 00:19:18.990 pridefulness of God's going to forgive me. Right. We heard that also on 237 00:19:18.069 --> 00:19:21.309 the on the sidewalk. You know, if I go in here and do 238 00:19:21.509 --> 00:19:23.740 this, I know God and he's going to forgive me. So it's this, 239 00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:30.099 it's this boastfulness that we have within us that just keeps US moving forward 240 00:19:30.859 --> 00:19:37.059 more and more quickly towards destruction. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, 241 00:19:37.779 --> 00:19:40.890 but you said you sort of saw the light, he began to pull you 242 00:19:40.930 --> 00:19:45.809 out towards the light, and was there a specific event or was there a 243 00:19:45.890 --> 00:19:53.440 specific moment that you recall where all this crushes upon you and you you turn 244 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:57.799 to him, or was it more of a process? I think there it 245 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:04.200 was both really so there wasn't this magical you know, I like I can't 246 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:10.150 remember the exact day. I did meet my husband, of course, and 247 00:20:10.509 --> 00:20:14.509 working through that with a man that I know loves me of course has and 248 00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:21.069 really has shown Christ in our marriage and and what loving someone is supposed to 249 00:20:21.069 --> 00:20:25.500 look like and the grace and the mercy. So he really is the model 250 00:20:25.779 --> 00:20:29.900 of Christ here on earth and I'm so blessed for that. But also being 251 00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:34.930 a single mother and looking at my own child really kind of brought that into 252 00:20:34.970 --> 00:20:41.250 the forefront of just the forgiveness and, like I said, the mercy that 253 00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:45.490 Christ gives us and and how he did give me the opportunity to be a 254 00:20:45.609 --> 00:20:52.559 mother, and then researching and reading the New Testament with all of the verses 255 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:59.119 that that speak to the value of human life. Yeah, that I had 256 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:03.599 never heard, that I had never read up until that point, and that 257 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:08.509 was in my late s. So several years after actually, probably even into 258 00:21:08.549 --> 00:21:14.470 my early s, the Lord just continually was revealed himself to me through his 259 00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:17.869 word, and that's what he does. Yeah, you know, I read 260 00:21:17.950 --> 00:21:21.180 something recently that if you want to hear what God has to tell you, 261 00:21:21.259 --> 00:21:23.059 you read your Bible and if you want to hear audibly what he has to 262 00:21:23.099 --> 00:21:33.609 tell, you read Your Bible out loud. Yeah, yeah, when when 263 00:21:33.650 --> 00:21:41.009 you were struggling and yours kind of starting to come back to God, to 264 00:21:41.210 --> 00:21:45.650 claw your way back to God, I was you mentioned the thorn in your 265 00:21:45.690 --> 00:21:51.480 side and and I'd kind of like you to to talk about that a little 266 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:55.640 bit more because if your experience is anything like mine, and I think it 267 00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:02.309 probably is in some ways, they're we know we're forgiven and we can feel 268 00:22:02.589 --> 00:22:11.589 the release and the joy of that forgiveness, but there are consequences of especially 269 00:22:11.630 --> 00:22:18.819 such deep sin. God does not always, in fact, I think maybe 270 00:22:19.059 --> 00:22:26.259 even often, remove the consequences, and that for me is that when you 271 00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:30.250 spoke about the thorn, that's, for me, what what I thought about, 272 00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:33.970 and it is something I do try to convey to the women that I 273 00:22:33.089 --> 00:22:40.690 work with on the sidewalk because yes, we can be forgiven if if we 274 00:22:41.210 --> 00:22:45.839 have a heart that truly repents and turns back to God. But that doesn't 275 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:51.160 mean that this is not life changing and Infu with some very, very negative 276 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:55.119 consequences. So can you talk about that a little bit? Sure? Sure. 277 00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.109 So first, you know, when Paul spoke about that born in the 278 00:22:59.150 --> 00:23:03.470 flesh, he doesn't give the full meaning about that thorn. We don't know 279 00:23:03.230 --> 00:23:08.109 if it was some great trouble he was referencing or a great temptation. Maybe 280 00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:12.420 we don't we don't really know. But, like I said, those oftentimes 281 00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:18.339 spiritual battles are burdens rather our order to cure our spiritual pride. So you 282 00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:22.500 know, when we're afflicted with those thorns, we have to give ourselves to 283 00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:27.970 prayer, continue praying, even if answers aren't given immediately or if ever. 284 00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:34.930 And so when God doesn't take away that foreign I do think it's twofold. 285 00:23:36.009 --> 00:23:41.049 We he leaves it there to remind us where we've been, where or what 286 00:23:41.289 --> 00:23:45.400 we were before he got a hold of us, right before he brought us 287 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:51.799 to our knees and revealed that wickedness, wickedness to us. But if he 288 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:57.269 gives grace enough for us right we have no reason to complain about what's left 289 00:23:57.309 --> 00:24:03.069 over. We have no I mean, who are we to complain about God's 290 00:24:03.109 --> 00:24:07.269 grace and mercy? And so I think some of that what's left over, 291 00:24:07.309 --> 00:24:15.619 right has been, has manifested itself in trust issues, marital trust issues. 292 00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:19.259 Like I said, you, you you're never allowed to forget. I think 293 00:24:19.299 --> 00:24:26.410 in some circumstances where where you were in the manor, which is a blessing 294 00:24:26.490 --> 00:24:30.450 and accurse, right, that the blessing is the I mean the blessing is 295 00:24:30.490 --> 00:24:34.289 yeah, you, you are filled with compassion and the ability to help others 296 00:24:34.410 --> 00:24:41.480 because you know, but because you know it's it's there is always that, 297 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:48.160 you know. I often say I wish I had never done it. I 298 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.910 wish I'd never done all all the things that came as a result in my 299 00:24:52.069 --> 00:24:59.390 life that right now, I see where sin can lead, even though I'm 300 00:24:59.390 --> 00:25:03.150 forgiven. I love the Lord and he's using for good, he's using are 301 00:25:03.190 --> 00:25:08.180 paying for good, right, but but I still wish it had never happened. 302 00:25:08.539 --> 00:25:12.900 That is not it. What a different life I would have had in 303 00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:18.220 some ways, and I still to this day. A lot of times it 304 00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:21.220 happens on the sidewalk, but it happens other times. I still, to 305 00:25:21.339 --> 00:25:26.650 this day, grieve openly for those children. I do. I grieve, 306 00:25:26.730 --> 00:25:32.130 I weep over what I've done, and so the Lord. But, like 307 00:25:32.250 --> 00:25:34.759 I said, you know, continuing to seek him, to seek community, 308 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:41.240 to seek ministry opportunities. Excuse me, you know, we have to realize 309 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.480 as Christians that there's freedom from the penalty of passin. There's freedom in that 310 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:49.430 and the gracest sufficient for you. Yeah, I want you to talk a 311 00:25:49.470 --> 00:25:55.069 little bit about just kind of moving forward and just encouraging those who are on 312 00:25:55.190 --> 00:26:00.910 the sidewalk, about how those past experiences passed, abortions and even, you 313 00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:03.619 know, the Lord using that, that pain and that regret and all of 314 00:26:03.700 --> 00:26:08.380 that to bring you to himself, but then ultimately put your feet on the 315 00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:11.940 sidewalks like, HMM, bit of blessing out there on the sidewalk. You've, 316 00:26:12.299 --> 00:26:15.539 of course, like all of us that are out there, is encounter 317 00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:18.170 some opposition and have experiences with people yelling at us and all that stuff. 318 00:26:18.210 --> 00:26:22.369 So that all that aside in your ministry to the women, how has that, 319 00:26:22.730 --> 00:26:26.809 how's your past, really helped to fuel that and then helped, I 320 00:26:26.849 --> 00:26:33.200 guess, craft and and define the way that you minister out on the sidewalk, 321 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:36.359 if that makes sense. HMM. Yeah. Well, you know, 322 00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:40.599 Paul wrote in Second Corinthians Seventeen, which I actually that is the verse that 323 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:45.440 I have tattooed on my arm. Therefore, if any was, anyone is 324 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.509 in Christ, he's a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, 325 00:26:48.509 --> 00:26:52.910 the new has come, and I think that, again, Ben and 326 00:26:53.150 --> 00:26:56.509 women on the sidewalk, we have to realize no matter what we've been through, 327 00:26:56.670 --> 00:27:02.059 in Christ we are not the sum of our past choice. Yes, 328 00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:07.099 right, no matter what, we are made beautiful and new by the work 329 00:27:07.339 --> 00:27:11.740 of the spirit within us, and that's what we have to continue to portray 330 00:27:11.900 --> 00:27:19.490 these women, and also realizing that these women that walk in there, accompanied 331 00:27:19.609 --> 00:27:25.769 or not, are all image bearers of God. Yeah, so, even 332 00:27:25.809 --> 00:27:30.400 if they claim atheism, they are still image bearers of God, and I 333 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:37.599 believe that that is why there is such a pushback, because the creation will 334 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.839 magnify the creator or it will war against it, one or the other. 335 00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.549 There's IT'S A it's black and white. But but just as a building has 336 00:27:45.589 --> 00:27:48.109 a builder, you know, you probably heard. I know you're a fan 337 00:27:48.190 --> 00:27:52.829 of right comfort, Vickie, but just as the building has a builder, 338 00:27:52.069 --> 00:27:56.549 creation has a creator. Yeah, and we just have to continue to remind 339 00:27:56.750 --> 00:28:00.339 people that. They you know, they will give an account, but there 340 00:28:00.579 --> 00:28:07.940 is someone magnificent that can be trusted and that person's name is Jesus. Yeah, 341 00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.859 yeah, what kind of things you know, take yourself back to as 342 00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:15.049 you're walking into the the abortion center, knowing what you know now, what 343 00:28:15.170 --> 00:28:19.490 are some of the things that maybe you would call out that you think might 344 00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:25.130 have impacted you or that maybe you call out now, based on your experience, 345 00:28:25.170 --> 00:28:29.559 that you feel would will impact the women that are maybe in very similar 346 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:33.680 situation as you found yourself in. Well, that is one of the first 347 00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.759 things, going back to what I just said, that that baby inside of 348 00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.160 you as an image bearer of God. Yeah, you are an image bearer 349 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:44.869 of God. You know this is wrong because his law is written on your 350 00:28:45.029 --> 00:28:48.309 heart. You know that murder is wrong. And then, of course, 351 00:28:48.549 --> 00:28:55.029 the humanity of the baby, knowing that that child's heart started beating before the 352 00:28:55.150 --> 00:28:59.180 mother even knew she was pregnant, trying to get through to them that that 353 00:28:59.380 --> 00:29:04.420 baby is a human being and is alive inside of their womb, and also 354 00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:10.250 talking to them specifically about their role, trying to reach their heart so they 355 00:29:10.289 --> 00:29:15.569 can make that emotional connection with that child. You are the mother of that 356 00:29:15.769 --> 00:29:19.890 child and the fact is is that if they follow through with that abortion, 357 00:29:21.130 --> 00:29:26.359 they will be the mother of the dead child, and that's just, you 358 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:30.160 know, it's heartwrenching for me because, well, and Vicky you, we've 359 00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:36.240 been in that situation. We know the repercussions of that. I have just 360 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.789 as much want to get to that baby as I do to that Mama so 361 00:29:40.990 --> 00:29:45.069 she won't have to face when you have faced, you know, to bring 362 00:29:45.190 --> 00:29:49.349 her wrap her up. Listen, I asked my partner on the sidewalk a 363 00:29:49.390 --> 00:29:52.059 couple weeks ago, do you really think I would get in trouble if I 364 00:29:52.099 --> 00:29:55.859 would just bust through the doors and just say please, get out of those 365 00:29:56.460 --> 00:30:00.019 you don't want to do that. Probably would, but yeah, it's not 366 00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:03.940 what we usually recommend. No, but I know, I definitely know the 367 00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:10.049 the desire to do that because they don't know. They they have no idea. 368 00:30:10.089 --> 00:30:12.130 That's something that goes through my head. As they're walking in, I'm 369 00:30:12.210 --> 00:30:18.890 just thinking, you just have no clue, and all the the pro choice 370 00:30:18.970 --> 00:30:22.720 Soco, pro choice people dancing and almost like it's a big party. It's 371 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:32.519 like you all have no idea how incredibly tragic this is, the this that 372 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:37.269 is about to happen, not only to that port baby but to that woman. 373 00:30:37.829 --> 00:30:41.069 Yeah, yeah, well, and we often hear post a word of 374 00:30:41.150 --> 00:30:45.309 women. I think often here. You know, those those fiery words from 375 00:30:45.470 --> 00:30:51.140 the father and wise right the devil, those words condemnation, fear or in 376 00:30:51.460 --> 00:30:55.700 doubt and everything that he's got to do whatever he can to assault or faith 377 00:30:56.019 --> 00:31:00.220 and to make us feel like again. There's no way we could ever be 378 00:31:00.339 --> 00:31:06.049 forgiven for something like that. But at but the women just they really have 379 00:31:06.210 --> 00:31:08.289 no idea. And it would be also interesting to know how many of the 380 00:31:08.369 --> 00:31:11.849 pro boards have actually had abortions. I would be interested to know that. 381 00:31:12.130 --> 00:31:15.690 Yeah, I think a good number, especially of some of the older ones. 382 00:31:15.890 --> 00:31:19.119 But but I do want to say something. We've talked about this a 383 00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:26.680 lot on this podcast, Daniel, and I that the message of forgiveness is 384 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.720 absolutely critical and I think I'm hearing you saying how desperately you needed to hear 385 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:41.309 that. But I always caution counselors about having the message of forgiveness the spoken 386 00:31:41.430 --> 00:31:47.700 as they're actively abortion minded, because they are using it. As I think 387 00:31:47.740 --> 00:31:51.980 you mentioned, I didn't know God, so I wasn't really using it, 388 00:31:52.220 --> 00:31:55.859 but so many of people, of the people who claim to know the Lord, 389 00:31:55.859 --> 00:32:01.569 are using the message of forgiveness as as the rationalization to aboard. So 390 00:32:02.250 --> 00:32:07.569 how do we strike that balance? Do you think about and where and when 391 00:32:07.250 --> 00:32:10.849 do you think it is? is they thinking again, back to your own 392 00:32:10.849 --> 00:32:16.920 experience and when you were able to truly absorb God's message of forgiveness? You 393 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:23.119 know, I I always stood in opposition to the Lord because I never could 394 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:29.839 get it right, anything right, with my earthly father. So I immediately 395 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.630 thought to myself, why even try? What? I'm going to worship this 396 00:32:32.789 --> 00:32:37.430 invisible god? He's just going to strike me down anyway. Who Cares? 397 00:32:37.589 --> 00:32:39.430 You know, I'm going to do what I want to do. I agree 398 00:32:39.470 --> 00:32:45.980 with that wholeheartedly. Not only do I not do that, I also don't 399 00:32:45.980 --> 00:32:52.420 tell them that God loves them. MMMM because if you read the scriptures, 400 00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:57.460 that's not true. God did not love me when I was his enemy. 401 00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:00.930 And God doesn't Send Sind Hell. He sends sinners to hell and he does 402 00:33:01.049 --> 00:33:04.769 do that. He will do that. Now, I won't get into the 403 00:33:04.809 --> 00:33:08.450 whole reformation on the sidewalk from calling out to the mother, but I think 404 00:33:08.529 --> 00:33:14.400 that when they if they come to you, which doesn't happen often, sadly, 405 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:16.680 if they come to you, I think there is an opportunity, a 406 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:23.480 real opportunity to speak with them about asking forgiveness and and what that looks like, 407 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:28.829 what that needs to look like, because repentance does not just mean forgiveness. 408 00:33:29.269 --> 00:33:34.990 Repentance me means to turn away from so the majority of abortions happened because 409 00:33:35.269 --> 00:33:37.869 someone has slept with someone's husband and gotten pregnant and they're trying to hide it 410 00:33:38.269 --> 00:33:43.099 or some other version of sexual immorality. They have to leave the life of 411 00:33:43.220 --> 00:33:47.539 sexual immorality. They have to flee and turn the other direction and run to 412 00:33:47.619 --> 00:33:52.180 Christ. Yeah, but they but they have to understand what they're running to. 413 00:33:53.980 --> 00:33:59.410 Right here. They're running to the savior. That and then you explain 414 00:33:59.490 --> 00:34:02.089 the Gospel. You know, he died for you, he died for the 415 00:34:02.250 --> 00:34:07.730 sin of mankind, but he god so that we would not have to endure 416 00:34:07.849 --> 00:34:12.320 the wrath of God. He took that on the cross, the father's wrath. 417 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:16.719 Otherwise, you know what's the black and white? Otherwise we would endure 418 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:24.349 it and we would be eternally separated from him. Yeah, yeah, well, 419 00:34:24.389 --> 00:34:30.510 I I'm with you and in being very, very careful about the message 420 00:34:30.510 --> 00:34:34.110 of forgiveness, in the message of God's Love, even as as women are 421 00:34:34.230 --> 00:34:40.500 walking in because I think they need to understand the the humanity of the baby 422 00:34:40.739 --> 00:34:46.739 and the severity of the sin of that they are about to commit and they 423 00:34:47.019 --> 00:34:52.369 their heart certainly is not a repentant heart as as as they're walking in there. 424 00:34:53.369 --> 00:35:00.130 But had pipe in just real quick because what you just said, I 425 00:35:00.250 --> 00:35:02.650 think for a lot of people could could hit the ears pretty heavy and I 426 00:35:02.730 --> 00:35:09.400 believe we did a podcast about this, because they are those who completely would 427 00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:14.079 say you should not tell people that God loves them if they're not Christians and 428 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:16.800 all of that. And there's a sense in which we kind of throw God 429 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:20.639 loves you around and you know, people say I preach the Gospel because it's 430 00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:23.670 told to my Jesus love them and and all of this. And you know, 431 00:35:24.750 --> 00:35:29.150 there is a sense now we look, of course, at the scriptures 432 00:35:29.190 --> 00:35:31.949 as our standard and this idea that we just throw around God loves you and 433 00:35:32.030 --> 00:35:36.380 has a wonderful plan for your life is somehow the message that people need to 434 00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:39.219 hear. It's a false notion, UN biblical notion. Well, of course 435 00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:43.860 there is a general sense in which God loves every human being. You know, 436 00:35:43.940 --> 00:35:46.539 Jesus makes his blood available to those who would repent and put their trust 437 00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:52.329 in Jesus out of a general love for humanity, of humanity, and so, 438 00:35:52.610 --> 00:35:54.489 you know, I just want to acknowledge that, but also just drill 439 00:35:54.570 --> 00:35:59.210 in particular to what you're talking about. Like we have to acknowledge this, 440 00:35:59.329 --> 00:36:05.400 this fact that when we're in sin, when we were in sin, we 441 00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:09.719 were enemies of God. The Bible says that you are at this with God, 442 00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:14.719 which means you are God enemies through your wicked works. That's sin. 443 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.670 Sin Actually matters to God, even though in our modern society and even in 444 00:36:19.789 --> 00:36:24.349 our modern Christianity, we like to shy away from talking about sin. Sin 445 00:36:24.550 --> 00:36:29.949 Is the reason why Jesus Christ, the son of God who never sinned, 446 00:36:30.230 --> 00:36:35.699 came to this earth and died a brutal death. That's that's the reason. 447 00:36:35.780 --> 00:36:37.139 Not Not so you could have a good life. Not so you could feel 448 00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:42.500 God's love for you. Not So. I mean those can be by products 449 00:36:42.579 --> 00:36:45.219 in a sense. You know you can feel God's love for you. Great 450 00:36:45.260 --> 00:36:47.690 Praise God, but that's not the that's not the end all to what Jesus 451 00:36:47.730 --> 00:36:52.250 accomplished on the Cross and his resurrection. The end all is that God might 452 00:36:52.250 --> 00:36:58.050 be glorified through your repentance and faith. In Jesus and you being unified with 453 00:36:58.170 --> 00:37:01.320 him. You know, that communion with God like that, that's that's the 454 00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:05.480 end all. So, you know, we could get into, and maybe 455 00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:09.239 you guys should refer back to our podcast, about God's love for people, 456 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:13.239 God's love for center. Should we be telling them that Jesus loves them? 457 00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:16.789 I actually do tell the mom's, when I think it's appropriate, that God 458 00:37:16.909 --> 00:37:20.829 loves you and God loves your baby. I'll use that as a statement right. 459 00:37:21.070 --> 00:37:23.989 That linking, I think is critical, that God loves you, but 460 00:37:24.429 --> 00:37:29.590 he also loves that baby, and that's when I will use the message of 461 00:37:29.670 --> 00:37:34.579 God's love. Is Making sure they understand he loves that baby too. Yeah, 462 00:37:35.179 --> 00:37:38.099 yeah, yeah, and I think it's important. Again, like we 463 00:37:38.179 --> 00:37:43.300 do have our three talking points that we go through and we that's what we 464 00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:47.610 train people to do, really focusing on how much God loves them, because 465 00:37:47.650 --> 00:37:52.449 I actually do sort of shy away from just God loves you, is just 466 00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:54.929 a general statement, and try to make them feel warm and fuzzy inside, 467 00:37:55.530 --> 00:37:59.159 because what I don't want them to do, because what I have seen many 468 00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.880 women do is they latch on to God loves me, and therefore love as 469 00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:07.559 defined in our modern society is agreement. Right, that's right. That's right. 470 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.599 You hate except sexuals. Yeah, acceptance. Right. You hate almost 471 00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:15.550 sexuals because you don't accept them. No, actually, I love them and 472 00:38:15.670 --> 00:38:17.670 I'm calling them to repentance. If I hated them, I would accept their 473 00:38:17.750 --> 00:38:21.670 sin and say that it's not a big deal, when actually they're headed for 474 00:38:21.789 --> 00:38:23.909 help. According right, what the Scripture says. Well, is that in 475 00:38:24.030 --> 00:38:28.659 balance and that truth that we've got a base. What we say, what 476 00:38:28.780 --> 00:38:31.619 we do, not on our feelings, are modern societies feelings, but the 477 00:38:31.780 --> 00:38:35.420 word of God. That's right. And then, you know, in the 478 00:38:35.500 --> 00:38:39.699 book of John and John Fifteen, when Jesus is talking about abide in me 479 00:38:39.860 --> 00:38:45.570 and I in you. Right, he declared his disciples clean, but they 480 00:38:45.650 --> 00:38:51.809 were not asked to abide in Jesus in order to get clean. They were 481 00:38:51.969 --> 00:38:58.079 enabled to abide because they were already clean. So the disciples once they were, 482 00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:01.480 once they were followers of Christ. That's what that's what all that means. 483 00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:05.920 And so, yeah, it's it can be a slippery slope. I 484 00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:10.269 don't the main point is to save those babies and to, you know, 485 00:39:10.670 --> 00:39:14.710 just to get through to the mother. The main point is actually that they 486 00:39:14.750 --> 00:39:20.869 will hear the Gospel and there have been so much fervent prayer that the that 487 00:39:21.110 --> 00:39:25.619 the Lord just tears the scales off these women. Yes, yeah, yeah, 488 00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:30.019 at the end of the day, with anything, the work is the 489 00:39:30.139 --> 00:39:34.260 Lord's. Like we want to do again according to what the Scripture says and 490 00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:37.929 not what modern society says and feels and all this. I'm going to do 491 00:39:38.050 --> 00:39:43.170 what the by bill says, but at the end of the day we are 492 00:39:43.409 --> 00:39:47.769 just those who plant seeds and water. We have feeds and we water seats. 493 00:39:47.809 --> 00:39:51.730 That's what that's what Paul said. We plant, we water. It's 494 00:39:51.809 --> 00:39:53.760 God that gives the increase. He's the one that pulls the scales off the 495 00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:58.800 eyes, and that's why one of our like main charges in this podcast for 496 00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:00.760 those who are going to be on the sidewalk. Yeah, we can give 497 00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:04.280 you some general principles and some best practices and DOS and don'ts and all that 498 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.349 stuff, and all that stuff can be good, but at the end of 499 00:40:07.389 --> 00:40:09.590 the day you need to be walking with God, need to be in the 500 00:40:09.630 --> 00:40:13.590 scriptures, you need to be in prayer and you need to be walking with 501 00:40:13.630 --> 00:40:16.710 the Lord, because he's the one that tears the scales off the eyes. 502 00:40:16.789 --> 00:40:21.619 He's the one that saves these babies. He's the one that brings these MOMS 503 00:40:21.699 --> 00:40:23.699 to repentance, those that have had abortions or those who, you know, 504 00:40:23.980 --> 00:40:29.380 considering abortion. He's the he's the one that does all that heart change stuff. 505 00:40:29.739 --> 00:40:32.340 You're right now. Within that, of course we want to honor him 506 00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:36.730 the way that we present what we say, and I do think there's this 507 00:40:36.969 --> 00:40:40.449 balance because in this day and age, I think we know with modern Christianity 508 00:40:42.090 --> 00:40:45.289 there's this gravitation into the world's mentalities, in the world's way of talking and 509 00:40:45.489 --> 00:40:50.679 speaking, and this gravitation away from the Scripture and the way the scripture talks. 510 00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:55.320 But the scripture is very forthright and playing about sin and rebellion against God 511 00:40:55.719 --> 00:41:00.079 and the need for the rebel to repent and put their trust in Jesus. 512 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:04.199 And we need to be truthful in that. But you can do that in 513 00:41:04.349 --> 00:41:07.869 a very gracious way, right. I mean, look at great comet, 514 00:41:07.989 --> 00:41:12.909 like you mentioned Jin like I love that guy, to preach that God is 515 00:41:12.989 --> 00:41:17.150 not shot away from talking about so what it sure doesn't right and God use 516 00:41:17.269 --> 00:41:22.139 it to bring people to the Lord and to even equip people like me and 517 00:41:22.139 --> 00:41:27.579 Vicky and yourself so, yeah, the Bible is the standard. That's right. 518 00:41:27.619 --> 00:41:31.219 Yeah, that's right. God's work will always be that standard. Yeah, 519 00:41:31.820 --> 00:41:37.409 and I love everything that you said, Daniel, about reminding US whose 520 00:41:37.489 --> 00:41:42.849 work it is and and that that is ultimately it is to glorify God and 521 00:41:42.929 --> 00:41:52.239 magnify his name. That that we're out there and and JEN works volunteers in 522 00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:57.199 the afternoon, which we do tend to see less, I guess, visible 523 00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:01.349 fruit. It's usually much quieter, you don't usually have as many interactions, 524 00:42:01.949 --> 00:42:07.070 interactions as in the morning, and we have traditionally had a really hard time 525 00:42:07.989 --> 00:42:14.309 finding and keeping afternoon volunteers. I think for exactly what you mentioned, Jen 526 00:42:14.550 --> 00:42:17.900 and then what Dan Daniel spoke about, is what our focus should be, 527 00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:25.260 because you your heart does break. If your focus is I really want to 528 00:42:25.300 --> 00:42:29.940 see baby saved and if I don't, I'm not going to be able to 529 00:42:30.010 --> 00:42:34.369 be out here, then you'll be yeah, you'll be quickly discouraged. But 530 00:42:34.409 --> 00:42:39.929 if your focus is in anything that Daniel described, then we can because we 531 00:42:40.050 --> 00:42:45.199 can all stand an obedience to him and want to give a voice to those 532 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:49.199 children. Why should we glorify or why should we put a time of day? 533 00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:52.519 I'm a Gore, glorification of the Lord. Right. Yeah, well, 534 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:55.800 God's only going to be magnified if I come out of nine to twelve, 535 00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.989 not from twelve to three, and only if it, only if I 536 00:43:00.150 --> 00:43:05.510 can, you know, tick off three babies saved and and five pieces of 537 00:43:05.630 --> 00:43:09.030 literature given out. All those things are wonderful. I'm not you know they 538 00:43:09.150 --> 00:43:15.900 they are, of course, but but it's just it's so important to remember 539 00:43:15.300 --> 00:43:20.019 why, why were there and who were serving? Right, exactly. Yeah, 540 00:43:20.179 --> 00:43:22.420 a man. Yeah, I don't know, Jen, if you have 541 00:43:22.579 --> 00:43:27.530 anything else you want to share, just from your story and just maybe experiences 542 00:43:27.570 --> 00:43:30.489 on the sidewalk in the last couple of minutes before we wrap this thing up. 543 00:43:30.530 --> 00:43:34.969 So I'm going to give you the the Florida share. Yeah, I 544 00:43:35.170 --> 00:43:42.199 would just continue to encourage sidewalks, sidewalk counselors, rather to be encouraged, 545 00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:47.760 to remain encouraged. The only way to do that is to stay in prayer 546 00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:52.719 and reading of the word of God. Yeah, prayer is the ultimate expression 547 00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:59.150 of our faith and we have to have faith in our mighty Lord that he's 548 00:43:59.230 --> 00:44:02.829 going to turn these, you know, hearts of stone that we see day 549 00:44:02.829 --> 00:44:06.670 after your day on the side walk into hearts of flesh that beat for him, 550 00:44:07.469 --> 00:44:10.139 because that's why all of us were created to glorify him. He doesn't 551 00:44:10.219 --> 00:44:16.460 need us for anything. Yeah, but he has given us this wonderful gift 552 00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:22.500 to go out to these abortion clinics and prey on the sidewalk and call out 553 00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:27.650 to these mothers and fathers, the ones who show up to preach his word. 554 00:44:27.889 --> 00:44:30.570 And you know, that's how it was done for me way back. 555 00:44:30.650 --> 00:44:34.690 Not on the not on the abortion clinics. Are Not from the abortion clinic 556 00:44:34.769 --> 00:44:37.960 sidewalk, but just hearing God's word, even as a young child, even 557 00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.239 though all these horrible things happened in my life, the things that I chose. 558 00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:45.800 You know, he comes back around. He came back around for me 559 00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:47.920 and lifted me out of the mire and gave me a heart disort it. 560 00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:52.760 Yeah, and it's important to remind it. There may be listeners who are 561 00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:54.789 post aboard, if I'm sure there's many. Sure, and and just to 562 00:44:54.909 --> 00:45:00.789 know that they're there is healing, not just by ministry in front of an 563 00:45:00.829 --> 00:45:05.630 abortion center, which actually I would recommend that you get healing prior to that, 564 00:45:06.389 --> 00:45:12.420 but but restored life with Stephanie Reinhard through love, Life Dot Org. 565 00:45:12.619 --> 00:45:19.019 You can all look look that up and there are many wonderful abortion recovery programs 566 00:45:19.099 --> 00:45:23.769 through churches and I do recommend that. I think it is important and and 567 00:45:24.010 --> 00:45:28.889 helpful. Yeah, sure, yeah, and I'll put that a link to 568 00:45:29.090 --> 00:45:31.769 restored life in the show notes for the podcast. For those who maybe have 569 00:45:31.809 --> 00:45:37.119 abortion in their past or you know or your minister into women on the sidewalk 570 00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:40.400 who have had an abortion and you want to point them obviously to the Lord. 571 00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:45.320 Think restored life as a Gospel Centered Ministry that helps talk really forth rightly 572 00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:50.469 about the issue of abortion and lead people to Jesus, not just some kind 573 00:45:50.469 --> 00:45:54.429 of psychobabble numb in their conscience, but like, ultimately Jesus is the one 574 00:45:54.469 --> 00:45:59.269 who takes care of the sin of abortion when we repent and put our trust 575 00:45:59.349 --> 00:46:02.750 in him. So, just for those who are listening, it's Love Life 576 00:46:02.789 --> 00:46:07.820 Dot Org, restored life, and you can go there and get information. 577 00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:10.900 You can connect with Stephanie there. But with that, ladies I will I 578 00:46:12.460 --> 00:46:14.860 wrap this thing up, unless, jen you got something else you want to 579 00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:16.659 you want to I was just going to say one thing just about the importance 580 00:46:16.699 --> 00:46:22.449 of community. To seek the community you know in James that talks about confessing 581 00:46:22.489 --> 00:46:25.690 your sins to one another and I think that women, post aboarded women can 582 00:46:25.849 --> 00:46:30.769 share without judgment, yeah, some of the things that they've gone through and 583 00:46:31.010 --> 00:46:36.400 just have a community of women to pray with one another. Of course abortion 584 00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:38.960 is a stigma, of course it's horrible, of course it's a sin. 585 00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:43.960 However, when the Lord, like I said, changes your life, we 586 00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:47.389 need to rally alongside each other and hold each other up. Yeah, Amen. 587 00:46:47.750 --> 00:46:52.949 First John Chapter One. Sorry find myself quote in this scripture so much. 588 00:46:52.949 --> 00:46:54.750 First John Chapter one versus five, I think it's five through ten. 589 00:46:55.349 --> 00:46:59.070 He says this is the message we've heard from him, and declare to you 590 00:46:59.190 --> 00:47:01.739 that God is light and m he in him is no darkness at all. 591 00:47:02.260 --> 00:47:05.739 So we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we 592 00:47:05.860 --> 00:47:07.500 lie to not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, 593 00:47:07.579 --> 00:47:09.579 as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the 594 00:47:09.619 --> 00:47:14.900 blood of Jesus Christ, his son, cleanses us from all sin. He 595 00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:16.849 gives on to say if we say we have no sin, we make him 596 00:47:16.849 --> 00:47:22.489 a liar, but if we can fast and forsake our sins, that God 597 00:47:22.530 --> 00:47:25.449 will forgive our sins. So bringing our sin to the light, the sin 598 00:47:25.570 --> 00:47:30.440 of abortion, like you're talking about, in that setting of other believers like 599 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:32.679 man or what I really share with other people that I've had an abortion or 600 00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:37.519 had three abortions or FIB aboard and whatever. Well, if you want that 601 00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.239 sin to like they say, sunlight's the best disinfect and if you want that 602 00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:44.199 sin to be taken care of and if you want the guilt in the stuff 603 00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:46.269 that you feel in your heart to be taken care of, bring it to 604 00:47:46.309 --> 00:47:50.429 the light, of course to the light of who Jesus is, but also 605 00:47:50.590 --> 00:47:54.510 to others, and just acknowledge it and let God use your past. And 606 00:47:54.750 --> 00:47:59.059 like the Apostle Paul, he doesn't shy away from you see him sharing his 607 00:47:59.179 --> 00:48:01.260 testimony time after time in the book of acts and even through some of the 608 00:48:01.300 --> 00:48:07.940 epistles, about how he had even persecuted Christians. He wasn't chief, yeah, 609 00:48:07.099 --> 00:48:09.340 and so it was the chief of theirs. In a sense, he 610 00:48:09.500 --> 00:48:13.610 was ashamed for his sin. You should be ashamed for your sin, right, 611 00:48:14.130 --> 00:48:16.489 but not ashames in such a way where you're ashamed to share what God 612 00:48:16.530 --> 00:48:20.929 has brought you from. Like our our our hope is not in whether we 613 00:48:21.050 --> 00:48:23.809 feel shame or not. Our Hope is in Jesus Christ, the one who 614 00:48:23.889 --> 00:48:29.960 removes shame. So bringing that stuff to the light can remove the shame and 615 00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:34.800 can remove the stigma and remove even some of the the pain, mental anguish 616 00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:38.679 and things like that that folks that are have abortions in their past. That's 617 00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:43.829 that's women especially, but also men. That's right, and involved in abortion. 618 00:48:43.869 --> 00:48:46.190 There's guilt. They're absolutely you know, I talk to a young lady, 619 00:48:46.190 --> 00:48:47.909 and I will wrap up with this, not a young lady, and 620 00:48:47.989 --> 00:48:52.590 older lady actually, just yesterday, and she was sharing with me the guilt 621 00:48:52.670 --> 00:48:58.619 that she still carried. This lady was probably seventy to seventy five years old 622 00:48:59.380 --> 00:49:04.340 and she had a friend that came to her thirty, gosh, maybe forty 623 00:49:04.420 --> 00:49:09.409 years ago that was considering an abortion and she's she didn't encourage her friend to 624 00:49:09.449 --> 00:49:13.650 have the abortion. She just didn't speak up and tell her friend not to 625 00:49:13.769 --> 00:49:17.650 have the abortion and she said she still feels guilty every day for the fact 626 00:49:17.650 --> 00:49:21.730 that she didn't speak to her friend and tell her not to have the abortion. 627 00:49:21.769 --> 00:49:24.800 Yeah, it's like this, this thing called abortion. It has its 628 00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:30.119 ugly tentacles in every area that it can. The Devil wanting to bring this 629 00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:35.800 condemnation and sense that you can never be forgiven on people and keep them in 630 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:37.710 bondage, and so we need to bring that stuff to the light. Jim, 631 00:49:38.070 --> 00:49:42.909 I appreciate you doing this. It's not easy to share this stuff. 632 00:49:42.989 --> 00:49:45.469 It's not easy to just be open and open book like you have been, 633 00:49:45.949 --> 00:49:50.309 but it is a blessing. It's going to bless other people. It's going 634 00:49:50.349 --> 00:49:52.099 to equip other people who have abortion in their past. Is going to quip 635 00:49:52.139 --> 00:49:55.460 other people who don't but but want to minister to people that do or people 636 00:49:55.460 --> 00:49:59.780 that are going to have abortions. And you know people are going to be 637 00:50:00.380 --> 00:50:01.980 who have abortion of their paths. I haven't shared it, set free they're 638 00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:05.860 going to bring into the light, because then the example that you've set, 639 00:50:06.139 --> 00:50:09.250 yees. So I appreciate you sharing and with that I'm going to wrap this 640 00:50:09.409 --> 00:50:13.809 thing up. Guys, we appreciate all those who are listening and we'd appreciate 641 00:50:13.889 --> 00:50:15.650 if you would share this podcast with others. Let it be a blessing to 642 00:50:15.769 --> 00:50:19.730 them also. We appreciate if you would reach out to us if you have 643 00:50:19.849 --> 00:50:23.400 a future episode, subjects, titles, things you'd like for us to cover, 644 00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:28.000 if you've got questions about this podcast or other episodes, we love to 645 00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:30.599 answer those questions as best we can. So you can reach out to me 646 00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:35.320 at Danielt Love Life Dot Org. You reach Vicky Vicky at love life dot 647 00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:42.829 work. And until next time, God bless God that show. Give me 648 00:50:43.670 --> 00:50:55.059 our love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. I know it 649 00:50:55.179 --> 00:51:04.969 will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious. And some you