Interview with A Post-abortive Sidewalk Counselor

WEBVTT100:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.799I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. S and me,200:00:06.120 --> 00:00:11.349Lord, I am yours, Iam yours. I'm welcome to the300:00:11.429 --> 00:00:17.309Gospel Center Pray Life Podcast, apodcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge400:00:17.350 --> 00:00:20.910you in pray life ministry, andalways with a focus on the Gospel.500:00:21.109 --> 00:00:32.060Stay tuned. I felt show passish, touch your heart. Use Me.600:00:36.049 --> 00:00:39.649Welcome back to the Gospel Center praylife podcast. You appreciate you guys listening700:00:39.770 --> 00:00:43.609and tuning in to this podcast and, as always, would appreciate if you800:00:43.609 --> 00:00:47.369guys would share this episode of thispodcast. I'm not going to labor long900:00:47.490 --> 00:00:51.359with the introduction because we have aspecial guest that's going to be sharing her1000:00:51.439 --> 00:00:56.560story, sharing her testimony, andso we think that this will be a1100:00:56.640 --> 00:00:59.960blessing you guys, because we've gotten, you know, a lot of feedback1200:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.120from testimonies and folks that have sharedtheir testimonies on the podcast over the past1300:01:03.200 --> 00:01:08.790what two years, and it's beenbeen all positive and people's life experiences and1400:01:11.069 --> 00:01:14.510what the Lord has brought them throughis a great blessing and encouragement. We1500:01:14.510 --> 00:01:18.819see it throughout the whole scripture,right testimonies of how God uses people how1600:01:18.859 --> 00:01:23.060God uses past experiences even and howGod's a redeemer. So we're going to1700:01:23.099 --> 00:01:26.939jump into that and hopefully well knowso, knowing Jim just her heart to1800:01:26.019 --> 00:01:30.739serve the Lord, that you guysare going to be encouraged and even challenged1900:01:30.900 --> 00:01:34.890in your ministry, on the sidewalksor whatever capacity where you're operating and speaking2000:01:34.930 --> 00:01:40.010for those who can't speak for themselves. But, Vicky, why don't you2100:01:40.129 --> 00:01:44.049real quick? Just introduced Jin andthen we'll give give jen the the floor2200:01:44.090 --> 00:01:48.040and let her share her story andwill be asking some questions throughout and stuff2300:01:48.040 --> 00:01:51.400like that, and just do letyou guys know. Need to mention this.2400:01:51.560 --> 00:01:55.000We are recording remotely, doing thebest we can with sound qualities,2500:01:55.079 --> 00:01:57.640but if things are a little weirdor Wonky, we apologize. We're doing2600:01:57.680 --> 00:02:01.629the best we can, with mehere in Californi on the left coast and2700:02:01.790 --> 00:02:07.109these ladies in the promised land onit. We're hope the audio will be2800:02:07.189 --> 00:02:09.469great in the connections good, butif not, it's still going to be2900:02:09.509 --> 00:02:13.110a blessing. It's going to beworth listening to, even if you have3000:02:13.270 --> 00:02:17.300to listen past a little little weirdaudio glitches and whatnot. So, all3100:02:17.300 --> 00:02:21.099right, we gain it, surewill. So so, yeah, so.3200:02:21.580 --> 00:02:24.500So we are with Jen Erwin,and I've known you, what about3300:02:24.500 --> 00:02:29.539a year, Jen, you've beenyou've been cheering like this almost two years.3400:02:29.819 --> 00:02:34.689Almost two years. So void timeflies, doesn't yeah. So.3500:02:35.169 --> 00:02:39.050So Jen has been volunteering with usfor about two years off and on Saturdays,3600:02:39.129 --> 00:02:46.319since she is just a firebrand onfire for the Lord and you know,3700:02:46.520 --> 00:02:52.439the the councilors that work alongside herjust continually tell me that she is.3800:02:53.840 --> 00:02:59.189She is not afraid to boldly speakthe truth, but then is able3900:02:59.310 --> 00:03:02.750to be very soft and compassionate withthe women when they when they come over4000:03:02.909 --> 00:03:07.150and talk with her as well.And and I think you'll find out maybe4100:03:07.150 --> 00:03:12.349a little bit of why that isthe case as as Gen tells us her4200:03:12.430 --> 00:03:15.340story. But she has been areal blessing to us, not only as4300:03:15.340 --> 00:03:22.659a volunteer out on the sidewalk,but she volunteered to post and perfect the4400:03:23.020 --> 00:03:29.050articles that we write almost every week, and that means perfection comes when we're4500:03:29.050 --> 00:03:34.530in the heavenly kingdom. Right,maybe heard of perfect at a worldly level,4600:03:36.169 --> 00:03:43.840as best as they can be amen, but I am certainly technologically challenged4700:03:44.080 --> 00:03:47.840and what would take me hours toget those articles out. Jen does in4800:03:47.919 --> 00:03:52.800about five minutes, probably a littlebit longer. I don't want to sell4900:03:52.840 --> 00:03:54.949her short, but so so.She's been a total blessing to us on5000:03:55.069 --> 00:04:00.669so many levels. And she hadasked a I don't know, about a5100:04:00.789 --> 00:04:03.270month ago. She said, doyou ever have guessed on your podcast?5200:04:03.349 --> 00:04:09.349Which yes, indeed we do,and so that she had a story she5300:04:09.469 --> 00:04:13.939really wanted to tell and she toldus a little bit about that. She5400:04:14.060 --> 00:04:20.939is a post aboard of woman andand has really quite a pretty dramatic testimony5500:04:21.139 --> 00:04:26.129that I think will, like Danielsaid, true, the be a blessing5600:04:26.250 --> 00:04:30.970for us not to only hear theher background and and what happened in her5700:04:30.089 --> 00:04:36.889past, but then where she's gonefrom there and and how the Lord redeemed,5800:04:36.930 --> 00:04:43.680as he's so wonderfully Canon and willwhen we when we call upon him.5900:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.839So so, Jen, you know, maybe just start just if you6000:04:46.920 --> 00:04:51.040would mind just kind of giving usa summary of your story. Sure,6100:04:51.360 --> 00:04:55.230sure. Well, first I wantto say thank you so much for having6200:04:55.350 --> 00:05:00.069me. This has been a laborof love really meeting you all and being6300:05:00.110 --> 00:05:05.069out on sidewalk with so many wonderfulGod fearing men and women, but of6400:05:05.230 --> 00:05:11.860course it also is a little scaryputting yourself out there and but I really6500:05:11.899 --> 00:05:15.060had to just pray and be mindfulthat. You know, the word of6600:05:15.180 --> 00:05:19.379our testimony is Christ because Christ isthe word right. It's not anything to6700:05:19.459 --> 00:05:26.569do with us, no matter howdramatic or terrible our lives have been because6800:05:26.569 --> 00:05:29.730of the choices that we've made,but it's really it points right back to6900:05:29.769 --> 00:05:34.610him. Yes, so, yeah, so I think when I was fourteen7000:05:34.649 --> 00:05:40.399years old, my family and Imoved from the Midwest to North Carolina.7100:05:41.199 --> 00:05:46.399My mom was born and reared inthis area and you know, as a7200:05:46.480 --> 00:05:48.439child, I'll leave him. I'llkind of shortly summarize, I guess,7300:05:48.480 --> 00:05:54.589or summarize that the childhood my Igrew up as the oldest of three kids7400:05:55.230 --> 00:06:00.750and my father was an extremely rigidChristian. He was a second lieutenant in7500:06:00.829 --> 00:06:08.300the army and just approached the Gospel, or the Bible as it were,7600:06:09.339 --> 00:06:15.220from the perspective of the law.So it was, you know, kind7700:06:15.220 --> 00:06:18.529of like a you know, wesaluted our father from the time I can7800:06:18.610 --> 00:06:23.370remember, from you know, probablyI've worked camouflage diverse for for all anybody7900:06:23.449 --> 00:06:30.209to really know, but so itwas just a very rigid approach to Christ8000:06:30.329 --> 00:06:36.720and to God and more so,that God was someone to be feared and8100:06:38.480 --> 00:06:42.319you know, if we didn't getright with God, we were we were8200:06:42.360 --> 00:06:46.519going to be taken out like hewould not deal with sin and and and8300:06:46.680 --> 00:06:50.069our lives might very well be cutshort because of that. So not a8400:06:50.189 --> 00:06:55.230lot of Gospel love, not alot of compassion, not a lot of8500:06:55.550 --> 00:06:59.870cross. I mean I heard nothingof the Cross and the salvation of of8600:06:59.990 --> 00:07:02.699Christ ever in my whole childhood.It was just, you know, law,8700:07:02.699 --> 00:07:06.379La Lah. And I'm not sayingthat the laws not applicable, nor8800:07:06.500 --> 00:07:12.819am I saying does the law matter. It very much matters. But Christ8900:07:12.939 --> 00:07:15.250is the Bible from beginning to end, right, so all that points to9000:07:15.329 --> 00:07:18.930him. So when we were whenI was fourteen, we moved to this9100:07:19.009 --> 00:07:25.930area and then that was actually thefirst time that I tried drugs, fourteen9200:07:25.930 --> 00:07:28.769years old, coming out of ayouth group, believe it or not,9300:07:29.329 --> 00:07:33.639and tried marijuana with another friend onthe church property that we had. Happened9400:07:33.720 --> 00:07:39.680at that time? Yeah, andnothing really happened. And then I started9500:07:39.720 --> 00:07:46.389dating a guy and lost my virginityat sixteen. But we dated for about9600:07:46.389 --> 00:07:49.990a year. Of course, heprofessed his undying love for me and and9700:07:50.509 --> 00:07:56.829you know, the heart felt justthe relationship was so wonderful and that young9800:07:56.990 --> 00:07:59.779love, and then when we brokeup, he broke up with me,9900:08:00.500 --> 00:08:07.939I just kind of I just wentcompletely off the rails and so, you10000:08:09.019 --> 00:08:15.490know, it started little by littlewith drinking and marijuana and then progressed over10100:08:15.769 --> 00:08:20.170a three year period that I wasreally into some hard stuff, almost four10200:08:20.170 --> 00:08:24.689years, so the time I wasabout twenty, almost twenty one. Where10300:08:24.689 --> 00:08:28.319you killing your parents aware of allof this or any of this at the10400:08:28.360 --> 00:08:33.759time? Well, you know,I think kids, especially teenagers, think10500:08:33.799 --> 00:08:35.919that they have the world by thetail and they think they can lie.10600:08:37.039 --> 00:08:41.470Well, so I thought that Ihad the wool pulled over their eyes.10700:08:41.669 --> 00:08:45.870Yeah, but I don't think thatI did. There were weekends that I10800:08:45.909 --> 00:08:50.789would not come home and ironically,my mom actually drove up to this convenient10900:08:50.909 --> 00:08:56.220store right down the street from ourhouse and she saw a police officer sitting11000:08:56.220 --> 00:09:00.019there, and this was probably twoo'clock in the morning on one Saturday morning11100:09:00.019 --> 00:09:03.700after I didn't come home that Fridaynight and she begged him to find me11200:09:05.460 --> 00:09:09.659and she actually sat in the backof the police car begging this officer to11300:09:09.820 --> 00:09:13.330help, to help her, andhe said sorry, got to wait however11400:09:13.450 --> 00:09:18.090long before we follow missing person's report. But she has eighteen, she can11500:09:18.450 --> 00:09:24.639do what she wants. So thatpicture of my mother sitting in this police11600:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.200car just still horrifies me to thisday. But you know, the mom11700:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.840almost being like a prisoner herself,you know, trying to find her daughter.11800:09:33.039 --> 00:09:39.750So but I do think that theyfound out, and very quickly.11900:09:39.830 --> 00:09:43.509After all of that incident with thewith the cops, I got into another12000:09:43.669 --> 00:09:48.710relationship, through a friend of afriend, with a guy who was a12100:09:48.870 --> 00:09:56.539little younger than I was, whowas a self proclaimed Neo Nazi skinhead,12200:09:56.539 --> 00:10:05.779and he got extremely angry with meone night for speaking to a friend at12300:10:05.820 --> 00:10:11.490a party who was African American,and I suffered the consequences greatly. After12400:10:11.649 --> 00:10:16.450it was over and went back tohis house and he just beat me senselessly.12500:10:18.090 --> 00:10:22.120I had a dislocated shoulder, somebroken ribs and nice huge shiner and12600:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.360you know, but the whole timeI'm just thinking, you know, I12700:10:26.399 --> 00:10:33.080can save this guy, I cansave him and and drawing from my childhood12800:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.789experiences of Church and I was raisedin the Church and, you know,12900:10:37.029 --> 00:10:41.629just just wondering what I could door say to get him to love me,13000:10:41.710 --> 00:10:48.870to bring him out of this evil. And I remember sitting up in13100:10:48.269 --> 00:10:52.580bed one night and just thinking tomyself, is this is this? It13200:10:54.220 --> 00:11:01.500is this my life, not evenreally being aware of God or the spirit,13300:11:01.820 --> 00:11:07.850but but just trying to wrap mymind around why I was feeling differently13400:11:07.929 --> 00:11:11.529all of a sudden. So Ithink God, you know, God brings13500:11:11.570 --> 00:11:16.490you to certain places in your lifeand allows you literally to self destruct.13600:11:16.809 --> 00:11:20.519He will allow you to selfdestrug beforehe reaches in. But even at that13700:11:20.639 --> 00:11:26.559point I had not I had notreally grasped the concept of salvation or what13800:11:26.799 --> 00:11:31.559that even looked like for me.So you want me to continue? Well,13900:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.870so it's some point. Obviously we'reour focus is on, you know,14000:11:37.029 --> 00:11:41.429the post aboard of experience, butthis is a this is the backdrop14100:11:41.549 --> 00:11:43.950for for everything that really led tothat. So I assume at some point14200:11:45.149 --> 00:11:48.460that pregnant. Yes, I did. Yeah, I got I actually got14300:11:48.539 --> 00:11:52.580married and had a son who's nowtwenty. He'll be twenty eight next okay,14400:11:54.379 --> 00:11:58.700but my husband wanted a divorce soonafter and of course, as we14500:11:58.860 --> 00:12:03.570separated, I quickly got into anotherrelationship with a man and that is who14600:12:03.690 --> 00:12:09.129I got pregnant by, and soit was subsequently that relationship that led to14700:12:11.049 --> 00:12:16.879the decision to abort. He didn'twant to be a father and I didn't14800:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.879argue. I drove myself to theabortion clinic each and every time, three14900:12:20.960 --> 00:12:24.919times, and you know, Iremember, especially having the experience now,15000:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.149on the sidewalk. I remember therewere no Christians there on the sidewalks then,15100:12:31.909 --> 00:12:35.830you know, and Oh how Iwish there would have been, right,15200:12:35.870 --> 00:12:39.190yeah, but no one preaching theGospel, no one telling me what15300:12:39.309 --> 00:12:43.549I was doing was wrong. Itwas just sort of walk in, handle15400:12:43.590 --> 00:12:46.820it and take care of what youneeded to take care of se could get15500:12:46.899 --> 00:12:48.820on with your life. Yeah,we were there any toughs of God as15600:12:48.899 --> 00:12:52.779you're walking in, or any concernthat maybe this was not what he would15700:12:52.820 --> 00:12:56.500have you do? Did he enterthe thought process at all? You know,15800:12:56.659 --> 00:13:01.169Vicky, he really did not.I was a single mother at that15900:13:01.289 --> 00:13:03.090time. I was working at ajob that I wasn't making a lot of16000:13:03.169 --> 00:13:07.850money. I was living in anapartment just trying to make ends meet.16100:13:07.529 --> 00:13:11.730I didn't feel comfortable a hundred percentcomfortable that my boyfriend at that time was16200:13:11.769 --> 00:13:15.759committed that to me. So therewas the fear of, you know,16300:13:15.960 --> 00:13:18.159losing him, knowing that this iswhat he wanted me to do, and16400:13:18.279 --> 00:13:26.669then I again just that overwhelming anxietyof rearing all these children by myself right16500:13:26.789 --> 00:13:31.870and not knowing what to do withwith that. Yeah, yeah, I16600:13:31.950 --> 00:13:35.190want to pipe in real quick andjust mentioned for those who are listening,16700:13:37.590 --> 00:13:39.629to help you guys understand, likethere's a lot of value and what you're16800:13:39.710 --> 00:13:45.779hearing, because Jin is, youknow, in her past, just like16900:13:45.940 --> 00:13:50.220many of you, was of themindset of the women that we see at17000:13:50.259 --> 00:13:54.460the abortion centers, obviously walking inselfishness, but also we have to acknowledge17100:13:54.980 --> 00:14:00.009that there were some deep hurts,there were some difficult situations, there were17200:14:00.090 --> 00:14:03.690some stuff that, you know,the world would use to justify abortion.17300:14:03.730 --> 00:14:05.529Sure, and so we have to, in the sense, meet these women,17400:14:05.929 --> 00:14:09.240women like Jin in her past,like many of you, where they're17500:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.879at. And there is that importanceof the balance between grace and truth,17600:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.039like we've of course, want tosay abortion is murder, but we also17700:14:18.120 --> 00:14:24.629have to understand that there are somedifficult experiences that these women are coming from17800:14:24.830 --> 00:14:28.950and going back into and we gotto acknowledge that and I think you sharing17900:14:28.990 --> 00:14:33.710your story, Gin, can reallyhelp us just and to remind us that18000:14:33.830 --> 00:14:37.590these these situations are not as cutand dry as a woman got pregnant,18100:14:37.590 --> 00:14:39.899she wants to kill her baby.Right. Here's another nob just some stuff.18200:14:41.019 --> 00:14:43.620No one just automatically wakes up onemorning pregnant goes I'm going to have18300:14:43.659 --> 00:14:48.620an abortion just because. Right,exactly right. Well, and the irony18400:14:48.700 --> 00:14:54.809of part of this is my fathertaught genesis to seven. That was he18500:14:56.049 --> 00:14:58.570believed that the baby, and thisis the same argument that the that the18600:14:58.690 --> 00:15:03.450pro abortion crowd uses, he believedthat that baby was not a baby,18700:15:03.490 --> 00:15:07.559based on Genesis to seven, whichsays then the Lord God formed the man18800:15:07.679 --> 00:15:09.759of dust from the ground and breathedinto his nostrils the breath of life.18900:15:09.799 --> 00:15:18.679HMM. So there was absolutely noemotional connection to the Bible or any type19000:15:18.720 --> 00:15:24.070of that type of conviction, becauseI believed that a baby was not a19100:15:24.110 --> 00:15:28.350baby until he or she took itsfirst breath, based on the way.19200:15:28.509 --> 00:15:33.070Now, now I also want apreference or follow up by saying I don't19300:15:33.110 --> 00:15:37.100blame my father for the decisions thatI made. Yeah, right. So,19400:15:37.500 --> 00:15:39.940so let me just also say that, knowing that now, but but19500:15:39.419 --> 00:15:46.100that was what he put into myheart from very early on. Yeah,19600:15:46.139 --> 00:15:50.769yeah, so at the Times you'rewalking into that abortion center, if someone19700:15:50.889 --> 00:15:54.649had said do you know God,how would you have answered that? Sure,19800:15:56.450 --> 00:15:58.730yes, so you would have saidyes, and we hear that right19900:15:58.250 --> 00:16:02.169all the time, of the womenwalking in at least to hear in the20000:16:02.250 --> 00:16:06.840Bible about the yes, they theyconsider themselves Christians. And indeed that was20100:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.360what you would have said Jordan,as you're and you had three, three20200:16:11.399 --> 00:16:17.720abortions, and so there's obviously adisconnect between so what what happened that then?20300:16:18.909 --> 00:16:22.710Did you go merrily on your wayand meet a wonderful man, or20400:16:22.110 --> 00:16:26.950or did something start to change inyour heart, in your feelings about what20500:16:27.190 --> 00:16:33.259had transpired in that abortion center?Well, I did. After that relationship,20600:16:33.379 --> 00:16:37.779of course, broke up. Hecheated on me, you know,20700:16:38.059 --> 00:16:45.980not surprisingly right, and I reallykind of fell into just this deep sadness20800:16:45.139 --> 00:16:52.809because not even maybe partially because ofthe failed relationship, but you know,20900:16:52.970 --> 00:17:00.809the tide of abortions, guilt risesvery high, right and it and it21000:17:02.080 --> 00:17:08.079threatens to engulf a woman's entire life. Yeah, and with shame and regret,21100:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.920you know, and those feelings ofunworthy in this. So I just21200:17:11.079 --> 00:17:17.269got to a place where I wascarrying around so much shame and guilt and21300:17:17.470 --> 00:17:22.269I just cried out to God andcouldn't understand really why I was feeling all21400:17:22.349 --> 00:17:26.269these things. Things will come tofind out. It was just this culmination21500:17:26.869 --> 00:17:32.259of the sin. So it wasnot directly, in your mind, yet21600:17:32.539 --> 00:17:37.420related to the abortion. Yeah,and that was my experience as well.21700:17:37.500 --> 00:17:41.980So I imagine that that is notan uncommon experience, that there was that21800:17:41.140 --> 00:17:47.250same what you described, a risingtide of shame. Yeah, self,21900:17:47.410 --> 00:17:55.009revulsion, even suicidal desire. ButI never, I initially did not connect22000:17:55.009 --> 00:17:59.039it with the abortion. But whathappened to you? where, at some22100:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.200point, did you then connect thatwith with the abortions themselves? Yeah,22200:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.799I did. I think that becauseI had to write you. You really22300:18:07.880 --> 00:18:14.750have to. There is some selfreflection someone. But the Lord revealed my22400:18:15.430 --> 00:18:22.230wicked state to me and the thingsthat I had done, and he absolutely22500:18:22.390 --> 00:18:26.910brought it to the forefront. Iwas I was crushed. I was just22600:18:26.140 --> 00:18:32.299crushed under the, like I said, the unworthiness and that regret begging the22700:18:32.420 --> 00:18:36.299Lord, even at times just takeme out. There's nothing that I can22800:18:36.420 --> 00:18:41.529do for your kingdom. I amI am a piece of trash. Please22900:18:41.650 --> 00:18:44.609just take me out. You know, I would beg him to kill me.23000:18:45.250 --> 00:18:48.089Really. Yeah, that's where Iwas. But then he just opens23100:18:48.130 --> 00:18:53.690up that light and you know,we have to seek Jesus, we have23200:18:53.890 --> 00:18:57.599to we have to listen to hiscall. You know, Paul spoke about23300:18:57.640 --> 00:19:03.160that in Second Corinthians twelve, aboutthe thorn in the flesh. And why23400:19:03.240 --> 00:19:10.390does he give us that thorn?Spiritual burdens are often ordered by the Lord23500:19:10.630 --> 00:19:14.509to cure spiritual pride, and Ithink that I walked around with just this23600:19:14.710 --> 00:19:18.990pridefulness of God's going to forgive me. Right. We heard that also on23700:19:18.069 --> 00:19:21.309the on the sidewalk. You know, if I go in here and do23800:19:21.509 --> 00:19:23.740this, I know God and he'sgoing to forgive me. So it's this,23900:19:25.460 --> 00:19:30.099it's this boastfulness that we have withinus that just keeps US moving forward24000:19:30.859 --> 00:19:37.059more and more quickly towards destruction.Yeah, yeah, yeah, so,24100:19:37.779 --> 00:19:40.890but you said you sort of sawthe light, he began to pull you24200:19:40.930 --> 00:19:45.809out towards the light, and wasthere a specific event or was there a24300:19:45.890 --> 00:19:53.440specific moment that you recall where allthis crushes upon you and you you turn24400:19:53.640 --> 00:19:57.799to him, or was it moreof a process? I think there it24500:19:57.960 --> 00:20:04.200was both really so there wasn't thismagical you know, I like I can't24600:20:04.240 --> 00:20:10.150remember the exact day. I didmeet my husband, of course, and24700:20:10.509 --> 00:20:14.509working through that with a man thatI know loves me of course has and24800:20:14.750 --> 00:20:21.069really has shown Christ in our marriageand and what loving someone is supposed to24900:20:21.069 --> 00:20:25.500look like and the grace and themercy. So he really is the model25000:20:25.779 --> 00:20:29.900of Christ here on earth and I'mso blessed for that. But also being25100:20:29.940 --> 00:20:34.930a single mother and looking at myown child really kind of brought that into25200:20:34.970 --> 00:20:41.250the forefront of just the forgiveness and, like I said, the mercy that25300:20:41.690 --> 00:20:45.490Christ gives us and and how hedid give me the opportunity to be a25400:20:45.609 --> 00:20:52.559mother, and then researching and readingthe New Testament with all of the verses25500:20:52.440 --> 00:20:59.119that that speak to the value ofhuman life. Yeah, that I had25600:20:59.359 --> 00:21:03.599never heard, that I had neverread up until that point, and that25700:21:03.799 --> 00:21:08.509was in my late s. Soseveral years after actually, probably even into25800:21:08.549 --> 00:21:14.470my early s, the Lord justcontinually was revealed himself to me through his25900:21:14.589 --> 00:21:17.869word, and that's what he does. Yeah, you know, I read26000:21:17.950 --> 00:21:21.180something recently that if you want tohear what God has to tell you,26100:21:21.259 --> 00:21:23.059you read your Bible and if youwant to hear audibly what he has to26200:21:23.099 --> 00:21:33.609tell, you read Your Bible outloud. Yeah, yeah, when when26300:21:33.650 --> 00:21:41.009you were struggling and yours kind ofstarting to come back to God, to26400:21:41.210 --> 00:21:45.650claw your way back to God,I was you mentioned the thorn in your26500:21:45.690 --> 00:21:51.480side and and I'd kind of likeyou to to talk about that a little26600:21:51.480 --> 00:21:55.640bit more because if your experience isanything like mine, and I think it26700:21:56.119 --> 00:22:02.309probably is in some ways, they'rewe know we're forgiven and we can feel26800:22:02.589 --> 00:22:11.589the release and the joy of thatforgiveness, but there are consequences of especially26900:22:11.630 --> 00:22:18.819such deep sin. God does notalways, in fact, I think maybe27000:22:19.059 --> 00:22:26.259even often, remove the consequences,and that for me is that when you27100:22:26.460 --> 00:22:30.250spoke about the thorn, that's,for me, what what I thought about,27200:22:30.410 --> 00:22:33.970and it is something I do tryto convey to the women that I27300:22:33.089 --> 00:22:40.690work with on the sidewalk because yes, we can be forgiven if if we27400:22:41.210 --> 00:22:45.839have a heart that truly repents andturns back to God. But that doesn't27500:22:45.839 --> 00:22:51.160mean that this is not life changingand Infu with some very, very negative27600:22:51.720 --> 00:22:55.119consequences. So can you talk aboutthat a little bit? Sure? Sure.27700:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.109So first, you know, whenPaul spoke about that born in the27800:22:59.150 --> 00:23:03.470flesh, he doesn't give the fullmeaning about that thorn. We don't know27900:23:03.230 --> 00:23:08.109if it was some great trouble hewas referencing or a great temptation. Maybe28000:23:08.269 --> 00:23:12.420we don't we don't really know.But, like I said, those oftentimes28100:23:12.500 --> 00:23:18.339spiritual battles are burdens rather our orderto cure our spiritual pride. So you28200:23:18.420 --> 00:23:22.500know, when we're afflicted with thosethorns, we have to give ourselves to28300:23:22.660 --> 00:23:27.970prayer, continue praying, even ifanswers aren't given immediately or if ever.28400:23:30.609 --> 00:23:34.930And so when God doesn't take awaythat foreign I do think it's twofold.28500:23:36.009 --> 00:23:41.049We he leaves it there to remindus where we've been, where or what28600:23:41.289 --> 00:23:45.400we were before he got a holdof us, right before he brought us28700:23:45.440 --> 00:23:51.799to our knees and revealed that wickedness, wickedness to us. But if he28800:23:51.960 --> 00:23:57.269gives grace enough for us right wehave no reason to complain about what's left28900:23:57.309 --> 00:24:03.069over. We have no I mean, who are we to complain about God's29000:24:03.109 --> 00:24:07.269grace and mercy? And so Ithink some of that what's left over,29100:24:07.309 --> 00:24:15.619right has been, has manifested itselfin trust issues, marital trust issues.29200:24:15.220 --> 00:24:19.259Like I said, you, youyou're never allowed to forget. I think29300:24:19.299 --> 00:24:26.410in some circumstances where where you werein the manor, which is a blessing29400:24:26.490 --> 00:24:30.450and accurse, right, that theblessing is the I mean the blessing is29500:24:30.490 --> 00:24:34.289yeah, you, you are filledwith compassion and the ability to help others29600:24:34.410 --> 00:24:41.480because you know, but because youknow it's it's there is always that,29700:24:42.160 --> 00:24:48.160you know. I often say Iwish I had never done it. I29800:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.910wish I'd never done all all thethings that came as a result in my29900:24:52.069 --> 00:24:59.390life that right now, I seewhere sin can lead, even though I'm30000:24:59.390 --> 00:25:03.150forgiven. I love the Lord andhe's using for good, he's using are30100:25:03.190 --> 00:25:08.180paying for good, right, butbut I still wish it had never happened.30200:25:08.539 --> 00:25:12.900That is not it. What adifferent life I would have had in30300:25:14.099 --> 00:25:18.220some ways, and I still tothis day. A lot of times it30400:25:18.299 --> 00:25:21.220happens on the sidewalk, but ithappens other times. I still, to30500:25:21.339 --> 00:25:26.650this day, grieve openly for thosechildren. I do. I grieve,30600:25:26.730 --> 00:25:32.130I weep over what I've done,and so the Lord. But, like30700:25:32.250 --> 00:25:34.759I said, you know, continuingto seek him, to seek community,30800:25:34.880 --> 00:25:41.240to seek ministry opportunities. Excuse me, you know, we have to realize30900:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.480as Christians that there's freedom from thepenalty of passin. There's freedom in that31000:25:45.680 --> 00:25:49.430and the gracest sufficient for you.Yeah, I want you to talk a31100:25:49.470 --> 00:25:55.069little bit about just kind of movingforward and just encouraging those who are on31200:25:55.190 --> 00:26:00.910the sidewalk, about how those pastexperiences passed, abortions and even, you31300:26:00.990 --> 00:26:03.619know, the Lord using that,that pain and that regret and all of31400:26:03.700 --> 00:26:08.380that to bring you to himself,but then ultimately put your feet on the31500:26:08.420 --> 00:26:11.940sidewalks like, HMM, bit ofblessing out there on the sidewalk. You've,31600:26:12.299 --> 00:26:15.539of course, like all of usthat are out there, is encounter31700:26:15.660 --> 00:26:18.170some opposition and have experiences with peopleyelling at us and all that stuff.31800:26:18.210 --> 00:26:22.369So that all that aside in yourministry to the women, how has that,31900:26:22.730 --> 00:26:26.809how's your past, really helped tofuel that and then helped, I32000:26:26.849 --> 00:26:33.200guess, craft and and define theway that you minister out on the sidewalk,32100:26:33.240 --> 00:26:36.359if that makes sense. HMM.Yeah. Well, you know,32200:26:36.519 --> 00:26:40.599Paul wrote in Second Corinthians Seventeen,which I actually that is the verse that32300:26:40.599 --> 00:26:45.440I have tattooed on my arm.Therefore, if any was, anyone is32400:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.509in Christ, he's a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold,32500:26:48.509 --> 00:26:52.910the new has come, and Ithink that, again, Ben and32600:26:53.150 --> 00:26:56.509women on the sidewalk, we haveto realize no matter what we've been through,32700:26:56.670 --> 00:27:02.059in Christ we are not the sumof our past choice. Yes,32800:27:02.220 --> 00:27:07.099right, no matter what, weare made beautiful and new by the work32900:27:07.339 --> 00:27:11.740of the spirit within us, andthat's what we have to continue to portray33000:27:11.900 --> 00:27:19.490these women, and also realizing thatthese women that walk in there, accompanied33100:27:19.609 --> 00:27:25.769or not, are all image bearersof God. Yeah, so, even33200:27:25.809 --> 00:27:30.400if they claim atheism, they arestill image bearers of God, and I33300:27:30.599 --> 00:27:37.599believe that that is why there issuch a pushback, because the creation will33400:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.839magnify the creator or it will waragainst it, one or the other.33500:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.549There's IT'S A it's black and white. But but just as a building has33600:27:45.589 --> 00:27:48.109a builder, you know, youprobably heard. I know you're a fan33700:27:48.190 --> 00:27:52.829of right comfort, Vickie, butjust as the building has a builder,33800:27:52.069 --> 00:27:56.549creation has a creator. Yeah,and we just have to continue to remind33900:27:56.750 --> 00:28:00.339people that. They you know,they will give an account, but there34000:28:00.579 --> 00:28:07.940is someone magnificent that can be trustedand that person's name is Jesus. Yeah,34100:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.859yeah, what kind of things youknow, take yourself back to as34200:28:11.900 --> 00:28:15.049you're walking into the the abortion center, knowing what you know now, what34300:28:15.170 --> 00:28:19.490are some of the things that maybeyou would call out that you think might34400:28:19.529 --> 00:28:25.130have impacted you or that maybe youcall out now, based on your experience,34500:28:25.170 --> 00:28:29.559that you feel would will impact thewomen that are maybe in very similar34600:28:29.559 --> 00:28:33.680situation as you found yourself in.Well, that is one of the first34700:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.759things, going back to what Ijust said, that that baby inside of34800:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.160you as an image bearer of God. Yeah, you are an image bearer34900:28:41.240 --> 00:28:44.869of God. You know this iswrong because his law is written on your35000:28:45.029 --> 00:28:48.309heart. You know that murder iswrong. And then, of course,35100:28:48.549 --> 00:28:55.029the humanity of the baby, knowingthat that child's heart started beating before the35200:28:55.150 --> 00:28:59.180mother even knew she was pregnant,trying to get through to them that that35300:28:59.380 --> 00:29:04.420baby is a human being and isalive inside of their womb, and also35400:29:04.980 --> 00:29:10.250talking to them specifically about their role, trying to reach their heart so they35500:29:10.289 --> 00:29:15.569can make that emotional connection with thatchild. You are the mother of that35600:29:15.769 --> 00:29:19.890child and the fact is is thatif they follow through with that abortion,35700:29:21.130 --> 00:29:26.359they will be the mother of thedead child, and that's just, you35800:29:26.440 --> 00:29:30.160know, it's heartwrenching for me because, well, and Vicky you, we've35900:29:30.279 --> 00:29:36.240been in that situation. We knowthe repercussions of that. I have just36000:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.789as much want to get to thatbaby as I do to that Mama so36100:29:40.990 --> 00:29:45.069she won't have to face when youhave faced, you know, to bring36200:29:45.190 --> 00:29:49.349her wrap her up. Listen,I asked my partner on the sidewalk a36300:29:49.390 --> 00:29:52.059couple weeks ago, do you reallythink I would get in trouble if I36400:29:52.099 --> 00:29:55.859would just bust through the doors andjust say please, get out of those36500:29:56.460 --> 00:30:00.019you don't want to do that.Probably would, but yeah, it's not36600:30:00.180 --> 00:30:03.940what we usually recommend. No,but I know, I definitely know the36700:30:04.220 --> 00:30:10.049the desire to do that because theydon't know. They they have no idea.36800:30:10.089 --> 00:30:12.130That's something that goes through my head. As they're walking in, I'm36900:30:12.210 --> 00:30:18.890just thinking, you just have noclue, and all the the pro choice37000:30:18.970 --> 00:30:22.720Soco, pro choice people dancing andalmost like it's a big party. It's37100:30:22.799 --> 00:30:32.519like you all have no idea howincredibly tragic this is, the this that37200:30:32.720 --> 00:30:37.269is about to happen, not onlyto that port baby but to that woman.37300:30:37.829 --> 00:30:41.069Yeah, yeah, well, andwe often hear post a word of37400:30:41.150 --> 00:30:45.309women. I think often here.You know, those those fiery words from37500:30:45.470 --> 00:30:51.140the father and wise right the devil, those words condemnation, fear or in37600:30:51.460 --> 00:30:55.700doubt and everything that he's got todo whatever he can to assault or faith37700:30:56.019 --> 00:31:00.220and to make us feel like again. There's no way we could ever be37800:31:00.339 --> 00:31:06.049forgiven for something like that. Butat but the women just they really have37900:31:06.210 --> 00:31:08.289no idea. And it would bealso interesting to know how many of the38000:31:08.369 --> 00:31:11.849pro boards have actually had abortions.I would be interested to know that.38100:31:12.130 --> 00:31:15.690Yeah, I think a good number, especially of some of the older ones.38200:31:15.890 --> 00:31:19.119But but I do want to saysomething. We've talked about this a38300:31:19.400 --> 00:31:26.680lot on this podcast, Daniel,and I that the message of forgiveness is38400:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.720absolutely critical and I think I'm hearingyou saying how desperately you needed to hear38500:31:30.880 --> 00:31:41.309that. But I always caution counselorsabout having the message of forgiveness the spoken38600:31:41.430 --> 00:31:47.700as they're actively abortion minded, becausethey are using it. As I think38700:31:47.740 --> 00:31:51.980you mentioned, I didn't know God, so I wasn't really using it,38800:31:52.220 --> 00:31:55.859but so many of people, ofthe people who claim to know the Lord,38900:31:55.859 --> 00:32:01.569are using the message of forgiveness asas the rationalization to aboard. So39000:32:02.250 --> 00:32:07.569how do we strike that balance?Do you think about and where and when39100:32:07.250 --> 00:32:10.849do you think it is? isthey thinking again, back to your own39200:32:10.849 --> 00:32:16.920experience and when you were able totruly absorb God's message of forgiveness? You39300:32:17.000 --> 00:32:23.119know, I I always stood inopposition to the Lord because I never could39400:32:23.160 --> 00:32:29.839get it right, anything right,with my earthly father. So I immediately39500:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.630thought to myself, why even try? What? I'm going to worship this39600:32:32.789 --> 00:32:37.430invisible god? He's just going tostrike me down anyway. Who Cares?39700:32:37.589 --> 00:32:39.430You know, I'm going to dowhat I want to do. I agree39800:32:39.470 --> 00:32:45.980with that wholeheartedly. Not only doI not do that, I also don't39900:32:45.980 --> 00:32:52.420tell them that God loves them.MMMM because if you read the scriptures,40000:32:52.180 --> 00:32:57.460that's not true. God did notlove me when I was his enemy.40100:32:58.140 --> 00:33:00.930And God doesn't Send Sind Hell.He sends sinners to hell and he does40200:33:01.049 --> 00:33:04.769do that. He will do that. Now, I won't get into the40300:33:04.809 --> 00:33:08.450whole reformation on the sidewalk from callingout to the mother, but I think40400:33:08.529 --> 00:33:14.400that when they if they come toyou, which doesn't happen often, sadly,40500:33:14.880 --> 00:33:16.680if they come to you, Ithink there is an opportunity, a40600:33:16.880 --> 00:33:23.480real opportunity to speak with them aboutasking forgiveness and and what that looks like,40700:33:23.680 --> 00:33:28.829what that needs to look like,because repentance does not just mean forgiveness.40800:33:29.269 --> 00:33:34.990Repentance me means to turn away fromso the majority of abortions happened because40900:33:35.269 --> 00:33:37.869someone has slept with someone's husband andgotten pregnant and they're trying to hide it41000:33:38.269 --> 00:33:43.099or some other version of sexual immorality. They have to leave the life of41100:33:43.220 --> 00:33:47.539sexual immorality. They have to fleeand turn the other direction and run to41200:33:47.619 --> 00:33:52.180Christ. Yeah, but they butthey have to understand what they're running to.41300:33:53.980 --> 00:33:59.410Right here. They're running to thesavior. That and then you explain41400:33:59.490 --> 00:34:02.089the Gospel. You know, hedied for you, he died for the41500:34:02.250 --> 00:34:07.730sin of mankind, but he godso that we would not have to endure41600:34:07.849 --> 00:34:12.320the wrath of God. He tookthat on the cross, the father's wrath.41700:34:12.800 --> 00:34:16.719Otherwise, you know what's the blackand white? Otherwise we would endure41800:34:16.719 --> 00:34:24.349it and we would be eternally separatedfrom him. Yeah, yeah, well,41900:34:24.389 --> 00:34:30.510I I'm with you and in beingvery, very careful about the message42000:34:30.510 --> 00:34:34.110of forgiveness, in the message ofGod's Love, even as as women are42100:34:34.230 --> 00:34:40.500walking in because I think they needto understand the the humanity of the baby42200:34:40.739 --> 00:34:46.739and the severity of the sin ofthat they are about to commit and they42300:34:47.019 --> 00:34:52.369their heart certainly is not a repentantheart as as as they're walking in there.42400:34:53.369 --> 00:35:00.130But had pipe in just real quickbecause what you just said, I42500:35:00.250 --> 00:35:02.650think for a lot of people couldcould hit the ears pretty heavy and I42600:35:02.730 --> 00:35:09.400believe we did a podcast about this, because they are those who completely would42700:35:09.400 --> 00:35:14.079say you should not tell people thatGod loves them if they're not Christians and42800:35:14.400 --> 00:35:16.800all of that. And there's asense in which we kind of throw God42900:35:16.880 --> 00:35:20.639loves you around and you know,people say I preach the Gospel because it's43000:35:20.639 --> 00:35:23.670told to my Jesus love them andand all of this. And you know,43100:35:24.750 --> 00:35:29.150there is a sense now we look, of course, at the scriptures43200:35:29.190 --> 00:35:31.949as our standard and this idea thatwe just throw around God loves you and43300:35:32.030 --> 00:35:36.380has a wonderful plan for your lifeis somehow the message that people need to43400:35:36.460 --> 00:35:39.219hear. It's a false notion,UN biblical notion. Well, of course43500:35:39.300 --> 00:35:43.860there is a general sense in whichGod loves every human being. You know,43600:35:43.940 --> 00:35:46.539Jesus makes his blood available to thosewho would repent and put their trust43700:35:46.619 --> 00:35:52.329in Jesus out of a general lovefor humanity, of humanity, and so,43800:35:52.610 --> 00:35:54.489you know, I just want toacknowledge that, but also just drill43900:35:54.570 --> 00:35:59.210in particular to what you're talking about. Like we have to acknowledge this,44000:35:59.329 --> 00:36:05.400this fact that when we're in sin, when we were in sin, we44100:36:05.519 --> 00:36:09.719were enemies of God. The Biblesays that you are at this with God,44200:36:09.760 --> 00:36:14.719which means you are God enemies throughyour wicked works. That's sin.44300:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.670Sin Actually matters to God, eventhough in our modern society and even in44400:36:19.789 --> 00:36:24.349our modern Christianity, we like toshy away from talking about sin. Sin44500:36:24.550 --> 00:36:29.949Is the reason why Jesus Christ,the son of God who never sinned,44600:36:30.230 --> 00:36:35.699came to this earth and died abrutal death. That's that's the reason.44700:36:35.780 --> 00:36:37.139Not Not so you could have agood life. Not so you could feel44800:36:37.260 --> 00:36:42.500God's love for you. Not So. I mean those can be by products44900:36:42.579 --> 00:36:45.219in a sense. You know youcan feel God's love for you. Great45000:36:45.260 --> 00:36:47.690Praise God, but that's not thethat's not the end all to what Jesus45100:36:47.730 --> 00:36:52.250accomplished on the Cross and his resurrection. The end all is that God might45200:36:52.250 --> 00:36:58.050be glorified through your repentance and faith. In Jesus and you being unified with45300:36:58.170 --> 00:37:01.320him. You know, that communionwith God like that, that's that's the45400:37:01.400 --> 00:37:05.480end all. So, you know, we could get into, and maybe45500:37:05.519 --> 00:37:09.239you guys should refer back to ourpodcast, about God's love for people,45600:37:09.360 --> 00:37:13.239God's love for center. Should webe telling them that Jesus loves them?45700:37:13.480 --> 00:37:16.789I actually do tell the mom's,when I think it's appropriate, that God45800:37:16.909 --> 00:37:20.829loves you and God loves your baby. I'll use that as a statement right.45900:37:21.070 --> 00:37:23.989That linking, I think is critical, that God loves you, but46000:37:24.429 --> 00:37:29.590he also loves that baby, andthat's when I will use the message of46100:37:29.670 --> 00:37:34.579God's love. Is Making sure theyunderstand he loves that baby too. Yeah,46200:37:35.179 --> 00:37:38.099yeah, yeah, and I thinkit's important. Again, like we46300:37:38.179 --> 00:37:43.300do have our three talking points thatwe go through and we that's what we46400:37:43.380 --> 00:37:47.610train people to do, really focusingon how much God loves them, because46500:37:47.650 --> 00:37:52.449I actually do sort of shy awayfrom just God loves you, is just46600:37:52.570 --> 00:37:54.929a general statement, and try tomake them feel warm and fuzzy inside,46700:37:55.530 --> 00:37:59.159because what I don't want them todo, because what I have seen many46800:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.880women do is they latch on toGod loves me, and therefore love as46900:38:02.960 --> 00:38:07.559defined in our modern society is agreement. Right, that's right. That's right.47000:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.599You hate except sexuals. Yeah,acceptance. Right. You hate almost47100:38:10.639 --> 00:38:15.550sexuals because you don't accept them.No, actually, I love them and47200:38:15.670 --> 00:38:17.670I'm calling them to repentance. IfI hated them, I would accept their47300:38:17.750 --> 00:38:21.670sin and say that it's not abig deal, when actually they're headed for47400:38:21.789 --> 00:38:23.909help. According right, what theScripture says. Well, is that in47500:38:24.030 --> 00:38:28.659balance and that truth that we've gota base. What we say, what47600:38:28.780 --> 00:38:31.619we do, not on our feelings, are modern societies feelings, but the47700:38:31.780 --> 00:38:35.420word of God. That's right.And then, you know, in the47800:38:35.500 --> 00:38:39.699book of John and John Fifteen,when Jesus is talking about abide in me47900:38:39.860 --> 00:38:45.570and I in you. Right,he declared his disciples clean, but they48000:38:45.650 --> 00:38:51.809were not asked to abide in Jesusin order to get clean. They were48100:38:51.969 --> 00:38:58.079enabled to abide because they were alreadyclean. So the disciples once they were,48200:38:58.360 --> 00:39:01.480once they were followers of Christ.That's what that's what all that means.48300:39:01.639 --> 00:39:05.920And so, yeah, it's itcan be a slippery slope. I48400:39:06.320 --> 00:39:10.269don't the main point is to savethose babies and to, you know,48500:39:10.670 --> 00:39:14.710just to get through to the mother. The main point is actually that they48600:39:14.750 --> 00:39:20.869will hear the Gospel and there havebeen so much fervent prayer that the that48700:39:21.110 --> 00:39:25.619the Lord just tears the scales offthese women. Yes, yeah, yeah,48800:39:25.619 --> 00:39:30.019at the end of the day,with anything, the work is the48900:39:30.139 --> 00:39:34.260Lord's. Like we want to doagain according to what the Scripture says and49000:39:34.380 --> 00:39:37.929not what modern society says and feelsand all this. I'm going to do49100:39:38.050 --> 00:39:43.170what the by bill says, butat the end of the day we are49200:39:43.409 --> 00:39:47.769just those who plant seeds and water. We have feeds and we water seats.49300:39:47.809 --> 00:39:51.730That's what that's what Paul said.We plant, we water. It's49400:39:51.809 --> 00:39:53.760God that gives the increase. He'sthe one that pulls the scales off the49500:39:53.800 --> 00:39:58.800eyes, and that's why one ofour like main charges in this podcast for49600:39:58.920 --> 00:40:00.760those who are going to be onthe sidewalk. Yeah, we can give49700:40:00.760 --> 00:40:04.280you some general principles and some bestpractices and DOS and don'ts and all that49800:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.349stuff, and all that stuff canbe good, but at the end of49900:40:07.389 --> 00:40:09.590the day you need to be walkingwith God, need to be in the50000:40:09.630 --> 00:40:13.590scriptures, you need to be inprayer and you need to be walking with50100:40:13.630 --> 00:40:16.710the Lord, because he's the onethat tears the scales off the eyes.50200:40:16.789 --> 00:40:21.619He's the one that saves these babies. He's the one that brings these MOMS50300:40:21.699 --> 00:40:23.699to repentance, those that have hadabortions or those who, you know,50400:40:23.980 --> 00:40:29.380considering abortion. He's the he's theone that does all that heart change stuff.50500:40:29.739 --> 00:40:32.340You're right now. Within that,of course we want to honor him50600:40:32.460 --> 00:40:36.730the way that we present what wesay, and I do think there's this50700:40:36.969 --> 00:40:40.449balance because in this day and age, I think we know with modern Christianity50800:40:42.090 --> 00:40:45.289there's this gravitation into the world's mentalities, in the world's way of talking and50900:40:45.489 --> 00:40:50.679speaking, and this gravitation away fromthe Scripture and the way the scripture talks.51000:40:51.320 --> 00:40:55.320But the scripture is very forthright andplaying about sin and rebellion against God51100:40:55.719 --> 00:41:00.079and the need for the rebel torepent and put their trust in Jesus.51200:41:00.119 --> 00:41:04.199And we need to be truthful inthat. But you can do that in51300:41:04.349 --> 00:41:07.869a very gracious way, right.I mean, look at great comet,51400:41:07.989 --> 00:41:12.909like you mentioned Jin like I lovethat guy, to preach that God is51500:41:12.989 --> 00:41:17.150not shot away from talking about sowhat it sure doesn't right and God use51600:41:17.269 --> 00:41:22.139it to bring people to the Lordand to even equip people like me and51700:41:22.139 --> 00:41:27.579Vicky and yourself so, yeah,the Bible is the standard. That's right.51800:41:27.619 --> 00:41:31.219Yeah, that's right. God's workwill always be that standard. Yeah,51900:41:31.820 --> 00:41:37.409and I love everything that you said, Daniel, about reminding US whose52000:41:37.489 --> 00:41:42.849work it is and and that thatis ultimately it is to glorify God and52100:41:42.929 --> 00:41:52.239magnify his name. That that we'reout there and and JEN works volunteers in52200:41:52.360 --> 00:41:57.199the afternoon, which we do tendto see less, I guess, visible52300:41:57.360 --> 00:42:01.349fruit. It's usually much quieter,you don't usually have as many interactions,52400:42:01.949 --> 00:42:07.070interactions as in the morning, andwe have traditionally had a really hard time52500:42:07.989 --> 00:42:14.309finding and keeping afternoon volunteers. Ithink for exactly what you mentioned, Jen52600:42:14.550 --> 00:42:17.900and then what Dan Daniel spoke about, is what our focus should be,52700:42:19.019 --> 00:42:25.260because you your heart does break.If your focus is I really want to52800:42:25.300 --> 00:42:29.940see baby saved and if I don't, I'm not going to be able to52900:42:30.010 --> 00:42:34.369be out here, then you'll beyeah, you'll be quickly discouraged. But53000:42:34.409 --> 00:42:39.929if your focus is in anything thatDaniel described, then we can because we53100:42:40.050 --> 00:42:45.199can all stand an obedience to himand want to give a voice to those53200:42:45.280 --> 00:42:49.199children. Why should we glorify orwhy should we put a time of day?53300:42:50.280 --> 00:42:52.519I'm a Gore, glorification of theLord. Right. Yeah, well,53400:42:52.679 --> 00:42:55.800God's only going to be magnified ifI come out of nine to twelve,53500:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.989not from twelve to three, andonly if it, only if I53600:43:00.150 --> 00:43:05.510can, you know, tick offthree babies saved and and five pieces of53700:43:05.630 --> 00:43:09.030literature given out. All those thingsare wonderful. I'm not you know they53800:43:09.150 --> 00:43:15.900they are, of course, butbut it's just it's so important to remember53900:43:15.300 --> 00:43:20.019why, why were there and whowere serving? Right, exactly. Yeah,54000:43:20.179 --> 00:43:22.420a man. Yeah, I don'tknow, Jen, if you have54100:43:22.579 --> 00:43:27.530anything else you want to share,just from your story and just maybe experiences54200:43:27.570 --> 00:43:30.489on the sidewalk in the last coupleof minutes before we wrap this thing up.54300:43:30.530 --> 00:43:34.969So I'm going to give you thethe Florida share. Yeah, I54400:43:35.170 --> 00:43:42.199would just continue to encourage sidewalks,sidewalk counselors, rather to be encouraged,54500:43:42.320 --> 00:43:47.760to remain encouraged. The only wayto do that is to stay in prayer54600:43:49.199 --> 00:43:52.719and reading of the word of God. Yeah, prayer is the ultimate expression54700:43:52.760 --> 00:43:59.150of our faith and we have tohave faith in our mighty Lord that he's54800:43:59.230 --> 00:44:02.829going to turn these, you know, hearts of stone that we see day54900:44:02.829 --> 00:44:06.670after your day on the side walkinto hearts of flesh that beat for him,55000:44:07.469 --> 00:44:10.139because that's why all of us werecreated to glorify him. He doesn't55100:44:10.219 --> 00:44:16.460need us for anything. Yeah,but he has given us this wonderful gift55200:44:16.739 --> 00:44:22.500to go out to these abortion clinicsand prey on the sidewalk and call out55300:44:22.500 --> 00:44:27.650to these mothers and fathers, theones who show up to preach his word.55400:44:27.889 --> 00:44:30.570And you know, that's how itwas done for me way back.55500:44:30.650 --> 00:44:34.690Not on the not on the abortionclinics. Are Not from the abortion clinic55600:44:34.769 --> 00:44:37.960sidewalk, but just hearing God's word, even as a young child, even55700:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.239though all these horrible things happened inmy life, the things that I chose.55800:44:43.039 --> 00:44:45.800You know, he comes back around. He came back around for me55900:44:45.960 --> 00:44:47.920and lifted me out of the mireand gave me a heart disort it.56000:44:49.480 --> 00:44:52.760Yeah, and it's important to remindit. There may be listeners who are56100:44:52.869 --> 00:44:54.789post aboard, if I'm sure there'smany. Sure, and and just to56200:44:54.909 --> 00:45:00.789know that they're there is healing,not just by ministry in front of an56300:45:00.829 --> 00:45:05.630abortion center, which actually I wouldrecommend that you get healing prior to that,56400:45:06.389 --> 00:45:12.420but but restored life with Stephanie Reinhardthrough love, Life Dot Org.56500:45:12.619 --> 00:45:19.019You can all look look that upand there are many wonderful abortion recovery programs56600:45:19.099 --> 00:45:23.769through churches and I do recommend that. I think it is important and and56700:45:24.010 --> 00:45:28.889helpful. Yeah, sure, yeah, and I'll put that a link to56800:45:29.090 --> 00:45:31.769restored life in the show notes forthe podcast. For those who maybe have56900:45:31.809 --> 00:45:37.119abortion in their past or you knowor your minister into women on the sidewalk57000:45:37.159 --> 00:45:40.400who have had an abortion and youwant to point them obviously to the Lord.57100:45:40.840 --> 00:45:45.320Think restored life as a Gospel CenteredMinistry that helps talk really forth rightly57200:45:45.320 --> 00:45:50.469about the issue of abortion and leadpeople to Jesus, not just some kind57300:45:50.469 --> 00:45:54.429of psychobabble numb in their conscience,but like, ultimately Jesus is the one57400:45:54.469 --> 00:45:59.269who takes care of the sin ofabortion when we repent and put our trust57500:45:59.349 --> 00:46:02.750in him. So, just forthose who are listening, it's Love Life57600:46:02.789 --> 00:46:07.820Dot Org, restored life, andyou can go there and get information.57700:46:07.980 --> 00:46:10.900You can connect with Stephanie there.But with that, ladies I will I57800:46:12.460 --> 00:46:14.860wrap this thing up, unless,jen you got something else you want to57900:46:14.940 --> 00:46:16.659you want to I was just goingto say one thing just about the importance58000:46:16.699 --> 00:46:22.449of community. To seek the communityyou know in James that talks about confessing58100:46:22.489 --> 00:46:25.690your sins to one another and Ithink that women, post aboarded women can58200:46:25.849 --> 00:46:30.769share without judgment, yeah, someof the things that they've gone through and58300:46:31.010 --> 00:46:36.400just have a community of women topray with one another. Of course abortion58400:46:36.559 --> 00:46:38.960is a stigma, of course it'shorrible, of course it's a sin.58500:46:39.559 --> 00:46:43.960However, when the Lord, likeI said, changes your life, we58600:46:44.119 --> 00:46:47.389need to rally alongside each other andhold each other up. Yeah, Amen.58700:46:47.750 --> 00:46:52.949First John Chapter One. Sorry findmyself quote in this scripture so much.58800:46:52.949 --> 00:46:54.750First John Chapter one versus five,I think it's five through ten.58900:46:55.349 --> 00:46:59.070He says this is the message we'veheard from him, and declare to you59000:46:59.190 --> 00:47:01.739that God is light and m hein him is no darkness at all.59100:47:02.260 --> 00:47:05.739So we say that we have fellowshipwith him and walk in darkness, we59200:47:05.860 --> 00:47:07.500lie to not practice the truth.But if we walk in the light,59300:47:07.579 --> 00:47:09.579as he is in the light,we have fellowship with one another and the59400:47:09.619 --> 00:47:14.900blood of Jesus Christ, his son, cleanses us from all sin. He59500:47:14.940 --> 00:47:16.849gives on to say if we saywe have no sin, we make him59600:47:16.849 --> 00:47:22.489a liar, but if we canfast and forsake our sins, that God59700:47:22.530 --> 00:47:25.449will forgive our sins. So bringingour sin to the light, the sin59800:47:25.570 --> 00:47:30.440of abortion, like you're talking about, in that setting of other believers like59900:47:30.519 --> 00:47:32.679man or what I really share withother people that I've had an abortion or60000:47:32.719 --> 00:47:37.519had three abortions or FIB aboard andwhatever. Well, if you want that60100:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.239sin to like they say, sunlight'sthe best disinfect and if you want that60200:47:40.440 --> 00:47:44.199sin to be taken care of andif you want the guilt in the stuff60300:47:44.239 --> 00:47:46.269that you feel in your heart tobe taken care of, bring it to60400:47:46.309 --> 00:47:50.429the light, of course to thelight of who Jesus is, but also60500:47:50.590 --> 00:47:54.510to others, and just acknowledge itand let God use your past. And60600:47:54.750 --> 00:47:59.059like the Apostle Paul, he doesn'tshy away from you see him sharing his60700:47:59.179 --> 00:48:01.260testimony time after time in the bookof acts and even through some of the60800:48:01.300 --> 00:48:07.940epistles, about how he had evenpersecuted Christians. He wasn't chief, yeah,60900:48:07.099 --> 00:48:09.340and so it was the chief oftheirs. In a sense, he61000:48:09.500 --> 00:48:13.610was ashamed for his sin. Youshould be ashamed for your sin, right,61100:48:14.130 --> 00:48:16.489but not ashames in such a waywhere you're ashamed to share what God61200:48:16.530 --> 00:48:20.929has brought you from. Like ourour our hope is not in whether we61300:48:21.050 --> 00:48:23.809feel shame or not. Our Hopeis in Jesus Christ, the one who61400:48:23.889 --> 00:48:29.960removes shame. So bringing that stuffto the light can remove the shame and61500:48:30.079 --> 00:48:34.800can remove the stigma and remove evensome of the the pain, mental anguish61600:48:34.840 --> 00:48:38.679and things like that that folks thatare have abortions in their past. That's61700:48:38.880 --> 00:48:43.829that's women especially, but also men. That's right, and involved in abortion.61800:48:43.869 --> 00:48:46.190There's guilt. They're absolutely you know, I talk to a young lady,61900:48:46.190 --> 00:48:47.909and I will wrap up with this, not a young lady, and62000:48:47.989 --> 00:48:52.590older lady actually, just yesterday,and she was sharing with me the guilt62100:48:52.670 --> 00:48:58.619that she still carried. This ladywas probably seventy to seventy five years old62200:48:59.380 --> 00:49:04.340and she had a friend that cameto her thirty, gosh, maybe forty62300:49:04.420 --> 00:49:09.409years ago that was considering an abortionand she's she didn't encourage her friend to62400:49:09.449 --> 00:49:13.650have the abortion. She just didn'tspeak up and tell her friend not to62500:49:13.769 --> 00:49:17.650have the abortion and she said shestill feels guilty every day for the fact62600:49:17.650 --> 00:49:21.730that she didn't speak to her friendand tell her not to have the abortion.62700:49:21.769 --> 00:49:24.800Yeah, it's like this, thisthing called abortion. It has its62800:49:24.880 --> 00:49:30.119ugly tentacles in every area that itcan. The Devil wanting to bring this62900:49:30.639 --> 00:49:35.800condemnation and sense that you can neverbe forgiven on people and keep them in63000:49:36.000 --> 00:49:37.710bondage, and so we need tobring that stuff to the light. Jim,63100:49:38.070 --> 00:49:42.909I appreciate you doing this. It'snot easy to share this stuff.63200:49:42.989 --> 00:49:45.469It's not easy to just be openand open book like you have been,63300:49:45.949 --> 00:49:50.309but it is a blessing. It'sgoing to bless other people. It's going63400:49:50.349 --> 00:49:52.099to equip other people who have abortionin their past. Is going to quip63500:49:52.139 --> 00:49:55.460other people who don't but but wantto minister to people that do or people63600:49:55.460 --> 00:49:59.780that are going to have abortions.And you know people are going to be63700:50:00.380 --> 00:50:01.980who have abortion of their paths.I haven't shared it, set free they're63800:50:01.980 --> 00:50:05.860going to bring into the light,because then the example that you've set,63900:50:06.139 --> 00:50:09.250yees. So I appreciate you sharingand with that I'm going to wrap this64000:50:09.409 --> 00:50:13.809thing up. Guys, we appreciateall those who are listening and we'd appreciate64100:50:13.889 --> 00:50:15.650if you would share this podcast withothers. Let it be a blessing to64200:50:15.769 --> 00:50:19.730them also. We appreciate if youwould reach out to us if you have64300:50:19.849 --> 00:50:23.400a future episode, subjects, titles, things you'd like for us to cover,64400:50:23.800 --> 00:50:28.000if you've got questions about this podcastor other episodes, we love to64500:50:28.039 --> 00:50:30.599answer those questions as best we can. So you can reach out to me64600:50:30.199 --> 00:50:35.320at Danielt Love Life Dot Org.You reach Vicky Vicky at love life dot64700:50:35.360 --> 00:50:42.829work. And until next time,God bless God that show. Give me64800:50:43.670 --> 00:50:55.059our love for love. Give meour love for gratitude. I know it64900:50:55.179 --> 00:51:04.969will cost me my life. Nothing'stoo precious. And some you