Interview with a High Risk Doctor

WEBVTT100:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.400I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me. Lord,200:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.269Welcome to the Gospel Center pro lifepodcast. This episode we're going to300:00:10.310 --> 00:00:13.949talk with the retired Doctor Edith,who used to deal with high risk mothers400:00:14.029 --> 00:00:17.269in her practice. She's going togive us some tips and wisdom will how500:00:17.309 --> 00:00:23.699to speak with high risk mothers atthe abortion center. Stay tuned. I600:00:24.019 --> 00:00:37.170felt show Passish, touch your useme. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro700:00:37.289 --> 00:00:41.210life podcast. Appreciate you guys tuningin and we appreciate, as always,800:00:41.689 --> 00:00:46.049if you guys would share this podcastand even reach out to us. We'll900:00:46.090 --> 00:00:50.240share our contact info at the endof this podcast with ideas for other episodes.1000:00:50.880 --> 00:00:52.840We just want to be a blessingto you guys that are listening.1100:00:52.880 --> 00:00:56.439We want to encourage you to standfor life. Will encourage you to stand1200:00:56.479 --> 00:01:00.719for life at the abortion centers,especially in your city. It's a difficult1300:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.150ministry, but it's a necessary ministryand lives are saved. We just came1400:01:04.189 --> 00:01:07.950from the abortion center, yeah,with some pretty difficult opposition today. It1500:01:08.109 --> 00:01:12.230was a rough day, yeah,and we often encounter opposition for Poe and1600:01:12.269 --> 00:01:18.349pro abortion people and that's to beexpected. But five babies were safe.1700:01:18.390 --> 00:01:22.379Five babies to went went for anultrasound and five five babies. I again1800:01:22.420 --> 00:01:26.739when for an ultrasound on one onboard our help pregnancy center mobile ultra sound,1900:01:26.780 --> 00:01:29.140your net. Yeah, it wasawesome. Yeah, awesome, pretty2000:01:29.180 --> 00:01:32.260amazing what the Lord can do inspite of what the enemy tries to do.2100:01:32.459 --> 00:01:34.890That's right. So we would encourageyou guys that are listening to go2200:01:34.969 --> 00:01:38.129out to be a faithful witness outthere on the sidewalks. Would encourage you2300:01:38.129 --> 00:01:42.090guys to go to our sidewalks forlife website to get equipped and even reach2400:01:42.129 --> 00:01:46.810out and we can train you guysto become a sidewalk missionary, kind of2500:01:46.810 --> 00:01:49.959like what we talked about a coupleof months ago, becoming a sidewalk missionary,2600:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.879a regular presence and raising up anarmy of people in your city to2700:01:53.920 --> 00:01:56.640be out there at the abortion centers. So we encourage you guys with that.2800:01:56.680 --> 00:01:59.599Again, we'll share our contact infoat the end of this podcast to2900:02:00.359 --> 00:02:02.109give you guys an opportunity to reachout to us. But we want to3000:02:02.109 --> 00:02:07.629jump into our subject and we haveon zoom, so this is a zoom3100:02:07.870 --> 00:02:09.509call that we're doing. So ifyou hear any lag or any kind of3200:02:09.750 --> 00:02:14.990weird noises, it's either zoom oris the fact that we're recording on Vicki's3300:02:15.030 --> 00:02:17.900back porch. So if you heara gnawing sound, that's a that's probably3400:02:17.900 --> 00:02:21.659a squirrel chewing a nut not farfrom where we are. If you hear3500:02:21.740 --> 00:02:25.780sirens, we're in Charlotte and crimeis pretty pretty tough around these parts.3600:02:25.900 --> 00:02:30.409Now. Vicki lives in a prettygood neighborhood, but we're hearing some sirens3700:02:30.449 --> 00:02:32.770earlier. So if you hear somestuff you don't normally hear because we're recording3800:02:32.889 --> 00:02:38.530in a abnormal location because we're havingsome work done on our office to expand3900:02:38.650 --> 00:02:42.969things. Of God's doing a lot. But let's jump into our subject and4000:02:43.050 --> 00:02:46.800let's introduce our guest. Yeah,so she edith is is one of our4100:02:46.879 --> 00:02:54.240volunteers and she just has such awonderful background that is so useful in our4200:02:54.360 --> 00:02:59.830work on the sidewalk. So I'mgoing to introduce edith and and maybe edith,4300:02:59.909 --> 00:03:01.909you could just tell us about yourself, who you are, give us4400:03:01.949 --> 00:03:07.990a little of your background, yourtestimony and and just whatever you feel it4500:03:08.270 --> 00:03:12.629in Justin way of introduction. Peopleought to know about you. Okay.4600:03:12.830 --> 00:03:15.939Well, thank you so much forhaving me, Vicky and Daniel, and4700:03:16.139 --> 00:03:21.979it's just to be a such ablessing to be a part of this team.4800:03:22.020 --> 00:03:28.050I joined as a volunteer back inthe fall and it has been an4900:03:28.169 --> 00:03:34.889incredible blessing and Vicky and Daniel askedme to share with you some of my5000:03:35.050 --> 00:03:39.449background and interest in the ministry,and so I'll just jump in. I5100:03:39.770 --> 00:03:46.439grew up in a Christian home andas a teenager, went forward at a5200:03:46.479 --> 00:03:53.400billy Graham Crusade to express publicly myfaith in Jesus Christ. My faith was5300:03:53.560 --> 00:04:00.030solidisipied through Bible Study and in myyoung adult years I felt called as a5400:04:00.150 --> 00:04:05.789teenager to go into the practice ofmedicine and specifically to go on the foreign5500:04:05.830 --> 00:04:13.300mission field. Our Church had aa mission clinic in Mexico and I made5600:04:13.379 --> 00:04:16.660very specific plans to go that way. But God had other plans because as5700:04:16.779 --> 00:04:23.620I finished medical school that clinic closedand I did meet my husband and medical5800:04:23.660 --> 00:04:29.730school. He and I did ourmedical training in Ohio and then in Boston5900:04:29.930 --> 00:04:35.129and then we were called to Charlotteto work in in medicine here in Charlotte6000:04:35.329 --> 00:04:44.160in medical school because I was trainingduring a time in which there was not6100:04:44.560 --> 00:04:48.480abortion, was not legalized until towardthe end of my medical training. There6200:04:48.639 --> 00:04:56.870was not really an issue related tobeing pro life or pro choice, and6300:04:56.990 --> 00:05:00.189though I would consider myself pro life, I did not have an issue in6400:05:00.310 --> 00:05:04.069terms of getting a job or thatsort of thing. So there was really6500:05:04.110 --> 00:05:09.660no no issue there. Some ofthose things did come later in my career,6600:05:10.779 --> 00:05:15.420but in my training I began totake care of high risk pregnancies because6700:05:15.779 --> 00:05:23.250my specialty was in internal medicine andthen subspecializing in into chronology and diabetes,6800:05:23.769 --> 00:05:28.889and specifically my research and my fellowshipwas in diabetes. And when I came6900:05:28.970 --> 00:05:33.329to Charlotte I began to develop practicein the high risk pregnancy area and worked7000:05:33.490 --> 00:05:41.360in the academic area in Atrium healthwith caring for women with diabetes and pregnancy,7100:05:41.480 --> 00:05:45.319and we took care of over athousand women annually in that area,7200:05:45.839 --> 00:05:54.790and so I began to realize thatthat was going to be a field in7300:05:54.910 --> 00:05:59.949which God was going to use meto stand for life, because the majority7400:06:00.269 --> 00:06:04.459of people I was specialist, thatI was working with were much more liberal,7500:06:04.899 --> 00:06:09.540more pro choice. That's not tosay that there aren't specialists who are7600:06:09.579 --> 00:06:13.060very prolife, but most of thepeople I was working with were pro choice,7700:06:13.540 --> 00:06:17.220and so it was God put methere in to stand in the gap.7800:06:17.569 --> 00:06:24.089Okay, and just just to mentionthis. So you were a physician7900:06:24.209 --> 00:06:30.050that worked with high risk MOMS andcertainly we have encountered as one of the8000:06:30.649 --> 00:06:36.160frequently stated reasons why people are thereat the abortion center to a board is8100:06:36.360 --> 00:06:42.319because either the mother is high risk, sometimes a medical issue because of that8200:06:42.480 --> 00:06:47.910with the baby, but quite frequentlywe hear that the mother will die if8300:06:48.750 --> 00:06:54.230they don't kill the baby. Andso you, you ended up in a8400:06:54.350 --> 00:07:00.629position where you were actually than counselingwomen to whether that was true or not8500:07:00.910 --> 00:07:05.860right, whether they their high risksituation was one that was a death sentence8600:07:06.180 --> 00:07:11.740if they did not abort their childor not. Is that correct? Correct,8700:07:12.100 --> 00:07:15.730and I do want to reiterate thatin a high risk pregnancy you have8800:07:16.089 --> 00:07:21.129those two classifications. You have thehigh risk mother, you have the high8900:07:21.129 --> 00:07:28.009risk maternal condition and then you havea high risk condition for the baby,9000:07:28.290 --> 00:07:31.959right in which there are dangers there. And the truth of the matter is9100:07:32.199 --> 00:07:40.439that there are very, very rarecircumstances in which a pregnancy would present itself9200:07:40.480 --> 00:07:44.470as being, you know, arisk of death to the mother. So9300:07:44.829 --> 00:07:49.189I think that, in terms ofspeaking with women, I think that something9400:07:49.310 --> 00:07:55.629that could be very, very stronglystated, even by non medical person,9500:07:56.189 --> 00:08:00.819to that to to the abortion mindedwoman, that it is a very rare9600:08:00.939 --> 00:08:05.980circumstance in when which a woman's lifeis in danger to carry a pregnancy.9700:08:05.220 --> 00:08:09.620Now, did you find that otherdoctors, when they would have high risk9800:08:09.740 --> 00:08:18.129MOMS, would just kind of automaticallyrecommend abortion as the easier of the options9900:08:18.170 --> 00:08:20.970in front of them? I thinkthat's the case in my in my opinion,10000:08:22.209 --> 00:08:28.120that is generally the case. Theyusually rationalize that in those conditions in10100:08:28.279 --> 00:08:33.879which women had medical conditions that wouldmake for a very complicated pregnancy, right10200:08:35.440 --> 00:08:41.080other words, it would take morework, more resources, etc. To10300:08:41.789 --> 00:08:50.990to continue the pregnancy and complete thepregnancy. The option for abortion was pressed10400:08:50.230 --> 00:08:56.659upon, not only presented but pressed. Oh Really? Yes, so there10500:08:56.779 --> 00:09:01.059was some because they're the doctor.The woman doesn't know. So there was10600:09:01.139 --> 00:09:05.940almost, I don't want to usequite the word coercion, but something close10700:09:07.059 --> 00:09:11.730to that, that that was thesafest route. Because I'm yes, there10800:09:11.850 --> 00:09:16.889was a continuum of that, butI would say that in it. My10900:09:16.049 --> 00:09:22.289experience there was everything from the highrisk doctor presenting it as an option but11000:09:22.610 --> 00:09:28.080being a little more forceful to presentthat as an option because, whether you're11100:09:28.080 --> 00:09:33.559aware of it or not, anywoman who comes in pregnant is presented that11200:09:33.600 --> 00:09:39.750as an option these days unless theis prolife. So that that is the11300:09:39.029 --> 00:09:45.230that that's a sad statement. Doyou you think edith just as far as11400:09:45.429 --> 00:09:48.190as almost like a winend doubt,throw it out sort of mentality for doctors?11500:09:48.870 --> 00:09:54.059Do you think that is because ofthey're just afraid of be ensued,11600:09:54.539 --> 00:09:58.059or what do you think is theroot of that? I really do not11700:09:58.460 --> 00:10:03.980think that suit is at the bottomof it. I've never heard one of11800:10:03.059 --> 00:10:09.330the high rist doctors say they wereafraid of being sued. It generally just11900:10:09.210 --> 00:10:18.730in many cases where women are seeminglypressured by the HIGHRIST team to abort,12000:10:18.850 --> 00:10:22.559it's because they just feel like it'sgoing to be such a burden on the12100:10:22.759 --> 00:10:30.799woman, her family, resources,etc. And the the issue for the12200:10:30.879 --> 00:10:37.149poor woman is that this is justan ongoing pressure that she feels yeah to12300:10:37.269 --> 00:10:41.750an extreme sometimes, and so I'veeven had situations where I've had to say12400:10:41.830 --> 00:10:46.470to the team the patient has toldyou she wants to continue the pregnancy.12500:10:46.950 --> 00:10:52.740She really doesn't want to hear onemore offering for for termination of the pregnancy12600:10:52.820 --> 00:10:56.980killing of the baby. Wow,so in your work you're actually counseling the12700:10:58.059 --> 00:11:01.940women. You are a pro lifedoctor in a see of pro choice people,12800:11:03.059 --> 00:11:05.289or, if not pro choice,kind of wanting an abortion, at12900:11:05.330 --> 00:11:11.009least as what they see these hereroute. How would you counsel those women?13000:11:11.090 --> 00:11:16.370How would you help them in highristsituations, to choose life? So13100:11:16.769 --> 00:11:20.159what I usually do is, andwe have a set up, most of13200:11:20.200 --> 00:11:28.720these women are die have diabetes.So in my situation it's generally the woman13300:11:28.960 --> 00:11:33.669has gotten pregnant in her diabetes isunder poor control and she has a baby13400:11:33.710 --> 00:11:41.269with a birth defect or she herselfhas a serious complication of diabetes. And13500:11:41.870 --> 00:11:46.980interestingly enough there have been a coupleof occasions where in which the highers team13600:11:48.019 --> 00:11:52.220has gone in and not told methat the woman is abortion minded. She13700:11:52.259 --> 00:11:56.980might have mentioned this to the purseand so I have to keep my ear13800:11:56.059 --> 00:12:01.379to the ground. So I willgo in and speak to them about their13900:12:01.450 --> 00:12:05.009diabetes and then, if I knowthat there's some mention of abortion, that14000:12:05.129 --> 00:12:09.690there has been some talk with counseling, with the patient. You know,14100:12:09.809 --> 00:12:15.330I will try to ascertain where sheis spiritually, because if she's a believer,14200:12:15.649 --> 00:12:20.080we can go right to the thetruth of the matter. If she's14300:12:20.159 --> 00:12:26.759not a believer, then I meanit's the same, same story, except14400:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.549that, again, I guess,I have a more of an evangelistic conversation14500:12:31.870 --> 00:12:37.029with her and it's similar to whatwe have at the abortion facility. It's14600:12:37.149 --> 00:12:41.029that you know God loves her andhas a plan for her and her baby14700:12:41.230 --> 00:12:46.500and that this baby already has abeating heart and you know, ninety five14800:12:46.580 --> 00:12:48.860percent of the cases, by thetime she gets to me and that I14900:12:50.139 --> 00:12:52.860can help her get through this pregnancy, that it will be difficult, it15000:12:52.980 --> 00:12:58.299will be demanding, but that wewill get her through it. So do15100:12:58.009 --> 00:13:01.330you introduce the idea of God?Because my understanding, at least in some15200:13:01.529 --> 00:13:05.690settings, as you absolutely are notallowed to do that, but we're would15300:13:05.690 --> 00:13:09.129you do it anyway? Well,I would do it anyway. Okay,15400:13:09.649 --> 00:13:13.120good for you. I've never beenforbidden to talk about God to a patient.15500:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.639Now I've been retired for a year. I don't know whether that's change,15600:13:18.240 --> 00:13:22.360but I've always had free rain totalk about my faith that with a15700:13:22.440 --> 00:13:26.669patient. So you know, it'smaybe like I've never asked, I've just15800:13:28.070 --> 00:13:31.269I've just spoken my faith with patients. I mean that's why I went into15900:13:31.309 --> 00:13:35.110medicine. So you know, that'sthat's awesome. And have you have you16000:13:35.190 --> 00:13:39.629had a fairly good success with talkingto high risk MOMS who maybe we're thinking16100:13:39.629 --> 00:13:46.220abortion, changing their minds? Yes, yes, and I don't know that16200:13:46.419 --> 00:13:50.179they really change their minds because Ithink a lot of times the pain,16300:13:50.419 --> 00:13:56.809the the high rest team would goin and they were not necessarily abortion minded16400:13:56.970 --> 00:14:03.809coming in and so this would bepresented to them as an option. But16500:14:03.570 --> 00:14:07.690then when I would go in andsay look, we can, we can16600:14:07.809 --> 00:14:11.120get through this together. This isnot a life threatening situation. It's a16700:14:11.320 --> 00:14:16.840difficult situation, it's going to bea hard situation. And the other thing16800:14:16.039 --> 00:14:20.960with regard to the baby is thatin most cases, with the high risk16900:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.950situations that I was involved with,is in most of those cases the the17000:14:28.950 --> 00:14:37.149defects were fatal or fixable. Thatwas sort of mine mantra and therefore we17100:14:37.350 --> 00:14:46.059could let God take care of thatsituation for the baby as it was developing.17200:14:46.139 --> 00:14:48.419I see so. So, inother words, let nature take its17300:14:48.500 --> 00:14:52.860course. The baby may may die, the baby may not die, but17400:14:52.090 --> 00:14:56.409but let's leave that up to Godrather than being on your conscience and an17500:14:56.450 --> 00:15:01.649abortion exactly. But that was there. I will tell you that that meets17600:15:01.009 --> 00:15:09.279with opposition with some physicians. Andwhy is that? Because they don't they17700:15:09.399 --> 00:15:13.759think it's a poor use of resourcesthat to allow a woman who look an17800:15:13.879 --> 00:15:20.879example, if a baby is bornwithout kidneys, then it's unlikely that that17900:15:20.120 --> 00:15:26.070baby can survive. Fortunately, Ihave never had a situation which a physician18000:15:26.269 --> 00:15:31.149refused to take care of of ababy who didn't have the kidneys, and18100:15:31.309 --> 00:15:37.620those babies usually dine the third trimester. But I did have a woman,18200:15:37.779 --> 00:15:41.259let me give one other more commonexample, whose brain development was not good.18300:15:43.100 --> 00:15:48.139She wanted to give that baby theopportunity to live for as long as18400:15:48.340 --> 00:15:52.730the baby God chose to give thebaby life and her obstetrician refused to take18500:15:52.769 --> 00:15:58.409care of her. Oh my goodness, and she was a nurse, so18600:15:58.009 --> 00:16:02.970it was it was a very sadsituation. So just to say that,18700:16:03.409 --> 00:16:08.919unfortunately we have people in the medicalcommunity who are who are rationalizing that this18800:16:10.080 --> 00:16:12.559is not a good use of resources. And I must say that I can18900:16:12.759 --> 00:16:18.519help but think that that's going toramp up further. Shure and underline that19000:16:18.710 --> 00:16:22.509thought is that the baby is nota value or is of lesser value that,19100:16:22.669 --> 00:16:27.070or they wouldn't make that determination.Exactly right. Yeah, well,19200:16:27.190 --> 00:16:32.429as you know, edith, weencounter situations like this. Is while we're19300:16:32.429 --> 00:16:36.740doing this podcast, and you alreadymentioned earlier. At the abortion centers we19400:16:36.860 --> 00:16:41.220have conversations. Now the majority ofconversations that we have in the more majority,19500:16:41.299 --> 00:16:44.340vast majority, of women coming toan abortion center are not coming because19600:16:44.379 --> 00:16:48.450of complications like this, but wedo encounter it. So how would you,19700:16:48.970 --> 00:16:52.169how would you recommend, as sidewalkcounselors, your sidewall counsel yourself?19800:16:52.330 --> 00:16:56.370We appreciate you volunteering in the capacitythat you do, since been a blessing19900:16:56.450 --> 00:17:02.399to us. But how would yourecommend that we push back against some of20000:17:02.440 --> 00:17:07.440the pro abortion rhetoric from the doctors, knowing that these doctors are in a20100:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.359position of authority. These women seethem as an authority, and in rightly20200:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.640so. They've gone to medical schooland all of that. But how do20300:17:14.759 --> 00:17:18.950we how do we set things rightand say this doctor is not actually the20400:17:18.109 --> 00:17:23.750final say that God is the finalsay. How do you recommend we handle20500:17:23.789 --> 00:17:32.259those conversations? I think in thegeneral because, again what you've said is20600:17:32.299 --> 00:17:37.460exactly right. You've got a counseloron the sidewalk who, unless that counselor20700:17:37.980 --> 00:17:42.700would be a physician, does notcarry the authority that a woman's physician would20800:17:42.740 --> 00:17:48.849carry. But I think that person, a counselor on the sidewalk, can20900:17:48.130 --> 00:17:57.289say to the woman with great respectthat abortion for medical purposes because the life21000:17:57.369 --> 00:18:02.559of the mother is in danger,are the life of the baby is in21100:18:02.680 --> 00:18:07.519danger, is quite rare, particularlythe life of the mother. As I21200:18:07.599 --> 00:18:14.109as as I might say to you, my husband was as a cancer specialist.21300:18:14.309 --> 00:18:17.789I dealt in high risk go bein there probably been only two to21400:18:18.069 --> 00:18:22.549three cases in which continuing the pregnancy. So we're talking about eighty years of21500:18:22.670 --> 00:18:27.339practice between the two of us.Two are three, two or three situations21600:18:27.539 --> 00:18:33.619in which continuing the pregnancy there wasa high risk that the mother would die.21700:18:33.420 --> 00:18:41.059So I think the sidewalk counselor cansay number one, that situation is21800:18:41.299 --> 00:18:51.809very rare. Would you be willingto talk to another physician about what this21900:18:52.130 --> 00:18:59.359what your situation is, and geta second opinion? And, as I've22000:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.480said to to you two, Jimand I would like to serve as that22100:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.559second opinion and if we don't knowthe answer, we know who to go22200:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.950to to get the answer. Sothat's what I hope that we can develop,22300:19:12.349 --> 00:19:17.789because it's a difficult spot for thefor the sidewalk counselor to be in.22400:19:18.190 --> 00:19:19.750Yeah, it is. Let meask you, because I we often22500:19:19.950 --> 00:19:23.779do our for that, we trainour councilors to offer that and frequently the22600:19:23.859 --> 00:19:27.980response I will here is, well, it is my high risk doctor that22700:19:29.220 --> 00:19:33.380recommended I come here. How canwe counter that? Were from what you've22800:19:33.460 --> 00:19:37.980just said, it sounds like there'sa lot of high resk doctors out there22900:19:37.019 --> 00:19:42.170who might be counseling abortion. Sowhat would be a good way to respond23000:19:42.210 --> 00:19:49.250to that statement? Well, inCharlotte, in our local community, again,23100:19:49.930 --> 00:19:56.440my husband are I, with ourboth being physicians and in taking care23200:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.079of highers patients in the OB world, we could pick up the phone and23300:20:00.200 --> 00:20:04.359call the we know all the highrisk doctors in town, or we at23400:20:04.359 --> 00:20:08.269least have standing with them, sowe could call if that part, if23500:20:08.349 --> 00:20:11.430the woman were willing to give usthe name of the doctor, we could23600:20:11.430 --> 00:20:15.910call them you know, we couldn'tdo that in another city, but I'm23700:20:17.109 --> 00:20:22.619just not sure how else other thanto urge them to get a second opinion23800:20:22.940 --> 00:20:26.619from another high risk doctor. Right, okay, that's good. That's great.23900:20:27.500 --> 00:20:33.619So so you encounter probably, likeDaniel said, we really don't see24000:20:33.779 --> 00:20:40.170this is not a the bulk ofabortions that we see, but we do24100:20:40.450 --> 00:20:45.369hear it and I'll tell you someof the things that we have heard include24200:20:45.450 --> 00:20:49.240a topic pregnancy, hyper emesis,gravidium, I don't know if I'm saying24300:20:49.240 --> 00:20:53.319that correct where they just can't stopthrowing up, basically, or maybe the24400:20:53.400 --> 00:21:00.160baby already dead. Can can youaddress those issues, because they I think24500:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.710those are probably the most common Ithink I've seen. I sometimes the MOM24600:21:04.829 --> 00:21:10.470sill say they have high blood pressure. Now, is that ever a an24700:21:10.670 --> 00:21:15.349issue? That is killed the babyis the only solution? Well, let24800:21:15.430 --> 00:21:21.220me say that the one case inwhich I felt that the life of the24900:21:21.299 --> 00:21:26.059mother was in danger was a womanwho developed early high blood pressure of pregnancy25000:21:26.099 --> 00:21:34.450superimposed upon already underlying high blood pressurein in a week in which the baby25100:21:34.569 --> 00:21:41.490could not survive even in the highrisk unit outside the mother and the mother25200:21:41.009 --> 00:21:47.089was bleeding from the platelets. Becauseof that the treatment was delivery of the25300:21:47.200 --> 00:21:52.319baby. So the baby was delivered. Couldn't so that is such a rare25400:21:52.319 --> 00:22:00.000situation. Usually blood pressure can becontrolled at talkt a topic. Pregnancies are25500:22:00.400 --> 00:22:06.309usually emergency situations. So I findit very unusual that a woman would be25600:22:06.430 --> 00:22:11.910sent to an abortion clinic for anectopic pregnancy. Right, hyper EMMESSIS GRAVIDERREM25700:22:11.349 --> 00:22:18.299is no indication for abortion. That'san elective abortion. As far as for25800:22:18.500 --> 00:22:26.779my opinion, that's a woman whohas decided that she can't deal with this25900:22:26.140 --> 00:22:30.849and so, as a sidewalk counselor, I would urge her, if her26000:22:30.930 --> 00:22:38.369obstetrician has recommended this, that shefind another obstetrician and get help to get26100:22:38.529 --> 00:22:48.000her through the hyper emesis because again, I've taken women through very difficult hyporemesis26200:22:48.200 --> 00:22:56.119where there were underlying gastric issues withthis, with the pregnancy superimposing itself on26300:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.390that, and we got the womenthrough it. There's there's no indication in26400:23:00.549 --> 00:23:06.269that. So again it's hard ifthe if the if the obstetrician has referred26500:23:06.390 --> 00:23:11.670the patient for the sidewalk counselor tosay that. So again that idea of26600:23:11.869 --> 00:23:18.099delaying long enough, and usually hyperremesisoccurs in the first trimester up to about26700:23:18.220 --> 00:23:22.660fifteen weeks. Well, pregnancy abortion, as you all know, is legal26800:23:22.740 --> 00:23:27.529up to twenty weeks in North Carolina, and so she can, you know,26900:23:27.769 --> 00:23:32.609she can wait until we could tryto find help for her so that27000:23:32.730 --> 00:23:37.049she wouldn't have to abort the pregnancy. Right. And the other what was27100:23:37.130 --> 00:23:41.839the other condition? That you thebaby already dead is one that we do27200:23:41.079 --> 00:23:45.799here. A live which to meis is so tragic, because their doctors27300:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.279send them to the abortion center fora DNC because it's less expensive than the27400:23:52.880 --> 00:23:57.430hospital. And that is true,but I just can't imagine the pain,27500:23:57.589 --> 00:24:02.430the emotional pain, of wanting achild that has died and then sitting in27600:24:02.549 --> 00:24:07.150a room with women who are electingto to kill their child. So maybe27700:24:07.190 --> 00:24:11.740you could address that. What whatare some options we can recommend for those27800:24:11.140 --> 00:24:15.940MOMS, assuming they're not lying.Sometimes they are lying. Well, I27900:24:17.099 --> 00:24:22.220actually didn't realize that women were beingreferred to the abortion clinic with a dead28000:24:22.299 --> 00:24:29.130baby. That that's very unusual,because my practice was made up primarily of28100:24:29.250 --> 00:24:33.569of the low income women in Charlotte. I mean we took care of all28200:24:33.930 --> 00:24:38.400comers. We took care of everyone. But if a woman presented to the28300:24:38.480 --> 00:24:44.720emergency room or if we found inthe clinic, and these are women who28400:24:44.759 --> 00:24:48.480have no insurance, self pay,they aren't citizens of this country, we28500:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.430sent them to the emergency room andthey would not be sent to an abortion28600:24:52.509 --> 00:24:57.109clinic, they would be put inthe hospital in hat undergo a DNC.28700:24:57.509 --> 00:25:03.630So I I don't I'm I thinkthey're all lying to us. Then I28800:25:03.549 --> 00:25:07.339don't know, Vicky, I knowthat we've, I mean I've encountered a28900:25:07.500 --> 00:25:11.140few situations and I know you haveact, even with some follow up with29000:25:11.500 --> 00:25:15.819the dead in particular, where Iknew they were telling the tree they were.29100:25:15.059 --> 00:25:18.500Yeah, and I think it is. That is you of cost.29200:25:18.900 --> 00:25:23.369The abortion center will do a DNCfor less than four hundred dollars in early29300:25:23.490 --> 00:25:30.009pregnancy, and the hospital charges,I would say, four to FIVEZERO dollars.29400:25:30.529 --> 00:25:34.289So I think that's the difference.And still yet, though, at29500:25:34.329 --> 00:25:38.759least from my perspective, I wantto still encourage them. I mean no,29600:25:40.240 --> 00:25:45.200no doctor will, almost no doctoraspires to be an abortionist. That's29700:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.190and so going into an abortion clinicwith a doctor who's quite likely like the29800:25:49.309 --> 00:25:55.670local doctors here, Dr Ron Vermontiand Susan Alberta. They're not good doctors29900:25:55.710 --> 00:25:57.349and I wouldn't, I wouldn't,put my dog in their care. So30000:25:57.470 --> 00:26:00.150that's one of the things that Iuse as an encouragement to get them away30100:26:00.150 --> 00:26:03.420from the abortion center. Well,I think that's I think that's wise.30200:26:03.500 --> 00:26:08.460Counsel. Like I say, Idon't have any experience with it and the30300:26:08.539 --> 00:26:14.660women that that I have seen whohave had that horrible experience have been sent30400:26:14.740 --> 00:26:18.329to the emergency room. Now maybein you know, another healthcare setting,30500:26:18.890 --> 00:26:23.369maybe they do send them to theabortion clinic. But, as I said,30600:26:23.369 --> 00:26:27.369that's that's not something that I've hadan experience with. But we need30700:26:27.450 --> 00:26:33.880to seek an alternative to give thesewomen yes, ortible. I know locally,30800:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.799and Edith, maybe you can speakto this, since you have connections30900:26:36.839 --> 00:26:41.839here in Charlotte. We will referthem to the low cost MED clinic.31000:26:41.960 --> 00:26:45.559Is that what it is, Vicki, with the physician's Residence Clinic? Yeah,31100:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.710here in Charlotte and and and infact, that that leads to one31200:26:48.750 --> 00:26:52.589of our questions with edith, whichis just really beautiful at that she has31300:26:52.670 --> 00:26:57.670offered she has a vision for exactlythis issue. That I think is great31400:26:57.829 --> 00:27:03.740and that maybe would be possible inany city where you're seeking to promote life31500:27:03.740 --> 00:27:06.740as opposed to abortion for MOMS ofhigh res. So, but I don't31600:27:06.740 --> 00:27:08.819mean jump jump into that, edith. What is that vision of what you're31700:27:08.819 --> 00:27:15.769hoping to do, at least herein Charlotte, with regard to the other31800:27:15.009 --> 00:27:19.529clinics? That's right, that's right. So the reason this came to my31900:27:19.690 --> 00:27:25.009mind as we were, as weare, working in counseling with women at32000:27:25.049 --> 00:27:29.130the abortion facilities, particularly at planparent, who had here in Charlotte,32100:27:29.130 --> 00:27:33.079a number of women, as Danieland Vicky no, will say, well,32200:27:33.079 --> 00:27:37.799I'm not going here for an abortion, and so I when I've been32300:27:37.880 --> 00:27:40.319there, I've said, well,there are other places that you can go,32400:27:41.079 --> 00:27:45.190and I'll mention the mentions of theresidence clinic, which is where I32500:27:45.349 --> 00:27:51.309worked for years with with the pregnantdiabetics there, and they will say,32600:27:51.430 --> 00:27:53.990which is probably true, well,I can't get an appointment for three months.32700:27:55.710 --> 00:28:02.700So we we I am trying andhave we're working on a list of32800:28:03.099 --> 00:28:08.420other clinics where physicians work in thecommunity, that are low cost and that32900:28:08.619 --> 00:28:17.329do sliding scale. Self Pay Medicaid, those types of coverages that low income33000:28:17.450 --> 00:28:21.049home people have, as well asinsurance. They'll take general insurance. So33100:28:21.609 --> 00:28:26.170I think what we can do is, if we have a list available to33200:28:26.369 --> 00:28:30.319give these women, we can encouragethem not to go into the facility at33300:28:30.319 --> 00:28:37.319all and certainly if they say well, as they do say, well,33400:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.200it took me a month to getdisappointment and I really need to go in33500:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.349here, I'll I say to them, when I've written down the names of33600:28:45.390 --> 00:28:48.470these clinics, I've said, well, you know, really, the next33700:28:48.509 --> 00:28:52.150time you need to get this refilled, why don't you make an appointment at33800:28:52.230 --> 00:28:57.140this clinic and not go to aclinic where they do abortions? And because33900:28:57.299 --> 00:29:06.380obviously they're establishing care at planned parenthoodwith these non abortive care, with the34000:29:06.500 --> 00:29:10.329not abortive care, and then whenthey get pregnant, look where they're going34100:29:10.410 --> 00:29:14.049to go. Yeah, and Ijust think we need to steer the pat34200:29:14.170 --> 00:29:19.289the patients away from from planned parenthoodfor doing anything. Yeah, absolutely,34300:29:19.369 --> 00:29:22.970I agree with that. Yeah,you also talked about that. You are34400:29:23.049 --> 00:29:30.559hoping to find coalition of high riskdoctors that are pro life that would be34500:29:30.640 --> 00:29:33.319willing to consult with the women,as you have offered, for free,34600:29:33.559 --> 00:29:38.869Pro Bono at least just for initialconsultation to kind of steer them away from34700:29:40.109 --> 00:29:45.950that crisis moment at the abortion center. Correct what what I'm hope being,34800:29:47.190 --> 00:29:49.829and I have a I can't saythat it's going to happen, but I'm34900:29:49.910 --> 00:29:57.180praying and hoping that we can recruita group of high risk physicians and already35000:29:57.259 --> 00:30:03.299have to on board, and oneof those, who doesn't live here in35100:30:03.420 --> 00:30:07.690Charlotte, has a lot of connectionsactually across the country and he would know35200:30:07.890 --> 00:30:14.130who might be willing to be,you know, maybe on call or be35300:30:14.289 --> 00:30:18.170willing to, you know, takea you know a week or a month35400:30:18.369 --> 00:30:25.839to to to have that call into talk with either the counselor or talk35500:30:26.039 --> 00:30:30.400with directly with the patient and thenmaybe help them have hook up with someone35600:30:30.440 --> 00:30:37.269in their city. So that's inthe very, obviously very early stages of35700:30:37.430 --> 00:30:40.670development, but I'm excited to thinkthat we might be able to do that,35800:30:40.750 --> 00:30:45.190that that sounds great and that thatcan be something that our national missionaries35900:30:45.390 --> 00:30:48.430could start working on themselves as pullingtogether a list like that, because that36000:30:48.549 --> 00:30:53.099would be, I think, sohelpful since, as you indicated, we36100:30:53.579 --> 00:30:57.900as counselors are not going to havea whole lot of pull on the mom36200:30:59.180 --> 00:31:03.059from a medical standpoint, but adoctor might, I might be able to36300:31:03.099 --> 00:31:07.369convince them to make a choice forlife. Well, I think every barrier36400:31:07.809 --> 00:31:12.490we can remove from them is isjust moving them a step away from the36500:31:14.009 --> 00:31:18.369door of the abortion facility. Thatyeah, that's that one charge I would36600:31:18.410 --> 00:31:22.599give. Be as well informed asyou possibly can be. Be well,36700:31:22.680 --> 00:31:27.359as well informed as you possibly canbe about fetal development, about high risk36800:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.359pregnancies, so that you can havean answer. You know, the Bible36900:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.950tells us we should have an answerfor the hope that lies within us.37000:31:33.950 --> 00:31:36.990We should be ready to give ananswer and we should. We should be37100:31:37.029 --> 00:31:40.750ready to give a Biblical and aGospel Answer for questions about the Lord.37200:31:41.069 --> 00:31:42.630But I think also we should beready to give as best we can and37300:31:42.750 --> 00:31:48.220answer for some of these high risksituations or just even some of the lies37400:31:48.299 --> 00:31:52.460that are put out there that,like you know, such and such situation37500:31:52.660 --> 00:31:56.539merits and abortion. If we cananswer back and even answer back with some37600:31:56.660 --> 00:32:00.569resources, with some websites, withsome hey, you know statistically this.37700:32:00.769 --> 00:32:05.849You know. If you can answerback with some statistics. That's helpful because37800:32:05.890 --> 00:32:07.769what we're up against, especially whenwe're dealing with a high risk mom,37900:32:08.009 --> 00:32:12.690or at least a mom who's beentold that she's at high risk, is38000:32:12.809 --> 00:32:16.640we're up against speaking against an authoritylike her doctor, her obie doctor,38100:32:16.799 --> 00:32:21.279right, and of course I don'tthink it's very helpful to directly to say38200:32:21.279 --> 00:32:23.000your doctor is wrong, your doctorstupid. That's not going to be helpful38300:32:23.039 --> 00:32:27.200at all because she, whether wedo or not, she views that doctor38400:32:27.240 --> 00:32:31.069as an authority. But if wecan speak in an informed and authoritative way,38500:32:31.630 --> 00:32:36.309I think that will be helpful topush back some of that kind of38600:32:36.390 --> 00:32:40.029pro abortion mentality. Would you agreewith that? I agree completely, and38700:32:40.190 --> 00:32:46.980especially in this subset of of aof women, because a number of them38800:32:47.380 --> 00:32:53.460may not have been abortion minded,but they were, they were encouraged to38900:32:53.539 --> 00:33:00.450have the abortion because of these issues, maternal are baby related issues, and39000:33:00.730 --> 00:33:07.849so if we can, if wecan intervene and give them better information to39100:33:07.490 --> 00:33:14.200make their decision on, then thoseare women that that may be more inclined39200:33:14.240 --> 00:33:17.799to change their minds. Yeah,and so I agree completely and I agree39300:33:17.839 --> 00:33:23.359with and you know, again,I want to continually inform myself. I'm39400:33:23.440 --> 00:33:28.750not an obstetrician. I'm an Indochronologist, but I want to, you39500:33:28.829 --> 00:33:32.630know, continually research and I lookto the people who are the high risk39600:33:32.829 --> 00:33:38.710ob doctors to inform me. Ithink it's good for like, if I39700:33:38.950 --> 00:33:45.579can find articles that have good anduptodate statistics. Daniel, your your information39800:33:45.619 --> 00:33:51.859about, you know, development forthe orientation for the sidewalk counselors. That's39900:33:51.900 --> 00:33:57.730all very good. I would recommendthat sidewalk counselors have a little notebook that40000:33:57.930 --> 00:34:02.529they have those statistics written down sothat they can they'll have them at their40100:34:02.609 --> 00:34:08.969fingertips on the sidewalk because in theyou know, you can get anxious while40200:34:09.000 --> 00:34:13.719you're there and if you if youhave them at your fingertips, though,40300:34:13.920 --> 00:34:16.960you can you can quote them.So I think all those things are helpful.40400:34:17.000 --> 00:34:22.519Yeah, yeah, absolutely, fromwe have that we can give to40500:34:22.679 --> 00:34:29.469them with, you know, withauthority based on on the science of the40600:34:29.590 --> 00:34:32.670issues, the the better decision.You know, as I say, I40700:34:32.829 --> 00:34:37.820think the farther we can remove themfrom the door. Yeah, yeah,40800:34:37.860 --> 00:34:45.460absolutely so recently it's been in thepast maybe six months or so that you've40900:34:45.539 --> 00:34:47.019come out to the sidewalk. Isthat right? Maybe a little more than41000:34:47.059 --> 00:34:52.059that right now. It was in, I think September. Okay, yeah,41100:34:52.889 --> 00:34:54.010so just to kind of wrap thisthing up, I want people to41200:34:54.050 --> 00:35:00.170get an understanding from a physician's perspectivewhat brought you out on the sidewalk and41300:35:00.250 --> 00:35:04.210then just any other encouragement that youcan give to people who are thinking about41400:35:04.210 --> 00:35:08.159going to the sidewalk or who arealready out there. Well, I think41500:35:08.199 --> 00:35:19.679that abortion is the holocaust of thiscountry and it's the hidden Holocaust and it41600:35:20.159 --> 00:35:30.429has just been such it's the stainupon our country and upon our world and41700:35:32.429 --> 00:35:43.860God's maneuvered me into caring for highrisk pregnancies, in promoting life and allowing41800:35:44.139 --> 00:35:52.130me to do that in my careerand then part time working with what was41900:35:52.210 --> 00:35:59.650then pregnancy care center here, humancoalition, and then I always had the42000:35:59.809 --> 00:36:07.000desire to, once I retired,to continue that through working with a pro42100:36:07.159 --> 00:36:13.239life organization and I learned about citiesfor life and love life and I felt42200:36:13.280 --> 00:36:16.239like that was where God wanted meto be. I prayed about it and42300:36:17.159 --> 00:36:22.269he's allowed me to be there andI pray that our church will take a42400:36:22.389 --> 00:36:29.789more active role of it is theorganization and the involvement there has allowed me42500:36:30.150 --> 00:36:36.539a very evengel has allowed me tobe more evangelistic in my daytoday life,42600:36:37.059 --> 00:36:40.659because when people ask me what I'mdoing in retirement, it's so wonderful to42700:36:40.780 --> 00:36:45.619be able to say that I'd becomeinvolved in it. And I will say42800:36:45.780 --> 00:36:49.809sometimes I get pushed back and there'snot as much there's sometimes it's not so42900:36:50.010 --> 00:36:55.730positive. But that's fine because again, because love life is at its base,43000:36:57.050 --> 00:37:01.880a missionary organization who wants to bringmothers in their babies to a knowledge43100:37:02.320 --> 00:37:08.800of the Gospel. That's just inkeeping with my desire from the time I43200:37:09.159 --> 00:37:15.909came to faith to be a missionary. So I would just encourage all the43300:37:15.070 --> 00:37:20.590people on the sidewalk as missionaries,to be able to do that same thing.43400:37:20.869 --> 00:37:23.309It's not just the three hours orfour hours Dur on the sidewalk,43500:37:23.750 --> 00:37:29.030it's what you can do in yourtable conversation with friends, Co workers,43600:37:30.139 --> 00:37:36.340etc. That you can speak outand educate people about abortion and in the43700:37:36.420 --> 00:37:39.860evils of it. And what what'sgoing on on the sidewalk and what's what43800:37:40.139 --> 00:37:45.570this what what God is accomplishing throughlove life? Yeah, Amen, Hey,43900:37:45.610 --> 00:37:49.570man edith, you've been such ablast scene. We have so enjoyed44000:37:49.690 --> 00:37:52.610having you out there and I've I'veseen you be able to use your medical44100:37:52.730 --> 00:37:59.639knowledge to really turn people at leastto be thinking that maybe this is not44200:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.960what they should be considering. Sowe just want to thank you so much.44300:38:04.000 --> 00:38:07.480Yeah, yeah, well, thankyou. It's just been a huge44400:38:07.559 --> 00:38:13.190blessing for me and I can't thankyou enough and I thank God and I44500:38:13.349 --> 00:38:19.909look forward to to learning from fromboth of you and from colleagues as we44600:38:20.510 --> 00:38:23.269close these places down. Yeah,Amen. Well, again, we appreciate44700:38:23.510 --> 00:38:28.739edith, appreciate you coming on andwe appreciate those who are listening. Again,44800:38:28.780 --> 00:38:30.219as we started out, we wantyou to share this podcast. Maybe44900:38:30.260 --> 00:38:35.699it can be an encouragement to someoneelse. Maybe we'll get some some physicians45000:38:35.739 --> 00:38:38.659that listen to this podcast and geta burden to come in line with edith45100:38:38.699 --> 00:38:43.489and her husband's vision for getting somepro life doctors. Nash Le Rallied to45200:38:43.610 --> 00:38:45.530be a resource for MOMS that feellike abortion is an option for them,45300:38:46.250 --> 00:38:50.250and so share this podcast. Guys. The further it goes out, the45400:38:50.409 --> 00:38:53.409more of those resources can be.There's connections can be made, and also45500:38:53.489 --> 00:38:57.360reach out to me, Daniel atlove life dot org, or reach out45600:38:57.360 --> 00:39:00.280to Vicky, Vicky at Love LifeDot Org, and just give us some45700:39:00.400 --> 00:39:04.559suggestions of topics we can cover.Maybe you guys have a topic you'd like45800:39:04.679 --> 00:39:07.239for us to bring edith back onfor that she can speak from a physician's45900:39:07.280 --> 00:39:12.269perspective. I'm sure she'd be willingto come back on and share her perspective.46000:39:12.949 --> 00:39:15.110But we just again want to encourageyou guys to be out there on46100:39:15.150 --> 00:39:20.710the sidewalks, to be a gospelpresence, out there offering help and hope46200:39:20.710 --> 00:39:24.219in the name of Jesus and withthat will in this thing. So until46300:39:24.260 --> 00:39:37.260next time, God bless give forlove, give me our love, for46400:39:37.460 --> 00:39:50.969gratitude. I know it will costme my life. Nothing's too precious in46500:39:51.250 --> 00:39:52.250some you