Oct. 20, 2022

In As Much As It Depends On Us

In As Much As It Depends On Us

We pray for God to send more laborers in the harvest at the abortion centers but sometimes the folks that come along to “help” aren’t so helpful. At times, other groups come along to stand for life that may have different tactics and even cause problems. In this episode, we talk about a recent situation our sidewalk teams had and give some biblical insights on how to navigate these challenges.

https://sidewalks4life.com/equipping-articles/

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.720 So as much as it depends on you. As I was thinking about that 2 00:00:03.799 --> 00:00:07.759 great verse that you brought up, I know that I need to behave the 3 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:15.199 way that Scripture tells me to behave. And I have to trust that God 4 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.640 is going to iron out whatever needs to be ironed out, and he knows 5 00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:25.239 that they're there. I have to keep remembering that he knows that that other 6 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:32.000 group is there. I am yours, I'm yours, I'm yours. And 7 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:38.719 me Lord, I'm yours, I'm yours, I'm Welcome to the Gospel Centered 8 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:44.039 Pro Life Podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage, and challenge you 9 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:48.280 in pro life ministry and always with a focus on the gospel. Stay tuned. 10 00:00:50.280 --> 00:01:00.759 I felt your pashed, touch your heart use welcome back to the Gospel 11 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.799 Centered Pro Life Podcast. Appreciate you guys joining us, And just to give 12 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:08.239 you guys the heads up, we are recording remotely, so if the sound 13 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.280 is a little different than it normally is, that's the reason why. But 14 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:15.560 we are committed to bringing you these episodes every week. So when we're not 15 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:22.480 able to be together in person and record an episode, vikinna record remotely and 16 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:26.280 uh so, yeah, this this will go well and UM, I just 17 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.319 wanted to mention too, as we often do at the beginning of the podcast, 18 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.640 we would love for you guys to leave us a review of this podcast 19 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:36.680 episode and a review of this podcast just in general. We'd also love for 20 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:38.480 you to share this podcast with other people that you think it would be a 21 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:42.640 blessing too. And then we would encourage you to reach out to us if 22 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:48.079 you have questions or suggestions for future episodes, maybe comments about this particular episode, 23 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:51.359 UM, and we'll give our email addresses at the end. Also, 24 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:55.840 I want to mention UM something that we've mentioned often but maybe haven't mentioned in 25 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:59.239 a while, which is two websites that we have that would be a blessing 26 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.000 to you. We created those to bless those who want to get involved in 27 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:07.040 sidewalk ministry or who are doing sidewalk ministry. The first website is the Gospel 28 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.479 Centered pro life dot com websites. If you just go to Gospel Center pro 29 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:15.639 life dot com, that's our podcast website. So all the information for these 30 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:20.680 podcasts, all the past episodes, all of that stuff is there, and 31 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:23.479 you can actually search for keywords if you're looking for a particular episode that might 32 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:28.319 have covered a particular subject. So yeah, Gospel Centered Pro Life dot Com 33 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:30.759 is our podcast website, and then we have a website that's a training and 34 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:36.319 equipping website for people that want to get involved in sidewalk ministry and that sidewalks 35 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:40.000 the number four life dot com So Sidewalks for Life dot com. You can 36 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:45.000 go check that out. There's articles there, the articles that we post that 37 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.319 have to do with this UM. The article that we're gonna post that has 38 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:52.759 to do with this particular episode is gonna be on um Sidewalks for Life dot 39 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:54.719 com. And there's a bunch of other articles and a bunch of other stuff 40 00:02:54.759 --> 00:03:00.439 there. So with that, Vicky, let's jump into our episode. What 41 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:06.319 is our subject for today? Well, this, as many of our podcast 42 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:10.800 developed, was developed from an actual situation that happened on the sidewalk. It's 43 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.960 very very common. We've actually discussed it before, but we felt it it 44 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:22.479 probably needed to be talked about again. And that is what to do when 45 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:28.439 there are other groups that are on our side, pro life groups, Christians 46 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:37.159 who come with a very different way of approaching the women, and in this 47 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:44.719 particular situation away which we really were hesitant to be associated with UM, it 48 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:51.199 was it was much harsher, much harsher than how we would train our love 49 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:57.159 life counselors in general to interact with with the women. And it always creates 50 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.520 a great deal of tension. And honestly, I will tell tell you that 51 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:04.120 when I come up against that, it is more difficult for me to deal 52 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:11.120 with than when the opposition is terrible. Yeah, yeah, which is it's 53 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:14.039 almost like you get you get hit on every side. And so just to 54 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:16.480 give you guys a picture of what we're talking about, there was a situation 55 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:20.240 just a few days ago where, uh, I don't know, three or 56 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:24.800 four people showed up on the sidewalk here in Charlotte, and our team was 57 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.240 already out there. Our team is out there typically from nine to twelve, 58 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:31.480 reaching out sometimes a little before and after. But um, this group shows 59 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:35.959 up as our team is out there doing their thing, and they start yelling 60 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:40.439 at the women, start yelling things that are just you know, really over 61 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:47.000 the top, unnecessarily um confrontational, under unnecessarily offensive things. We're certainly not 62 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:53.000 against saying offensive things like saying abortionist murder is pretty offensive to people. Were 63 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:55.680 certainly not against that, But there are some things that are over the top. 64 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:58.360 And one of the things that happens, you know, we already have 65 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:00.560 opposition out there, many of the ABO centers that you guys are ministering, 66 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.600 Yet you have some kind of opposition, maybe people that drive by and curse 67 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:08.600 you, or maybe have pro abortion people out there with their rainbow umbrellas, 68 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:12.319 invests and all that stuff. And you know, we're already getting hit from 69 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:16.759 that angle right there, already hurling false accusations against us and cursing us and 70 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.199 all of that. To get hit from the other angle from the people that 71 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:25.600 you think should be on your side, um, can make things pretty difficult. 72 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.319 And so we're gonna talk through that and talk through kind of like how 73 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:31.639 you can navigate through that, how you can deal with that, how to 74 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:36.800 process that, and uh and still keep keep doing what God has called you 75 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:40.720 to do. It's it's again, it's not easy. One of the first 76 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:45.839 things I'll say, as we talked about this before we started recording, is 77 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:48.920 in a lot of these situations, now, some of these situations, it 78 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:53.240 can be that they come out, these other pro life people or whatever they 79 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:57.319 call themselves, street preachers can come out. And I'm not against street preachers, 80 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:00.519 like street preaching is awesome. People get saved, it's amazing. But 81 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:03.279 there are some that maybe you would call One guy said, they're not street 82 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:06.519 preachers, they're streets screechers, right, They're just out there just to make 83 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:12.759 a noise. And you know, there was a situation actually, um several 84 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:15.560 months ago where some of those folks came out to one of our cities and 85 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:19.759 we're actually targeting the side of ball counselors out there, like targeting targeting them, 86 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:23.759 calling them names and then calling the women that are going in names and 87 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:30.040 just dishonoring the Lord. But in most of these situations, you gotta understand 88 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:32.959 these people are coming out and though they may not be doing things like we 89 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:36.240 do them, and that they may be doing things that are over the top, 90 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:40.560 they're not really coming out to oppose you. Yes, it's throwing a 91 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.079 monkey wrench in what you're doing, but they're not coming out necessarily in their 92 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:47.199 heart to cause you problems. They're coming out to to do what they feel 93 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:50.720 like God has called them to. Now whether or not God has called them 94 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:54.560 to that can be up for debate, and I think the debates pretty much 95 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:57.720 settled. When they're doing unbiblical things, God has not called them to that, 96 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:00.199 but we do have to understand that it's not. One of the things 97 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:03.519 I told you about is we can't take it personal. And I think that's 98 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:08.680 probably the main thing as we talk about opposition from whatever side it comes, 99 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:12.160 is we can't take it personal. So I wanted to say that first and 100 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:15.839 foremost. Yeah, I really like that, that we really have to not 101 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:25.120 take it personally. And another similar thought is we need to recognize that our 102 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:30.439 way is not always the only way. Now, I felt very clearly I 103 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:35.079 heard this group UM, and I did feel it was over the top, 104 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:39.959 and I did feel it was not what God would have them do. But 105 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:44.920 I as I was thinking through this issue and how the best deal with it, 106 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.160 one of the things that that I know is true of me is I've 107 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:53.519 been out there for ten years and when I started on the sidewalk mine, 108 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:58.040 I think the way I spoke, the things that I said, I would 109 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:03.680 probably characterize as gentle learn than I am now. I do try to speak 110 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:13.600 always UM with a gentle tone and compassion and UM try to empathize with or 111 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:18.240 sympathize at best with UM, at least with where these women are coming from 112 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:22.759 in the situations they face, But I think I'm more readily go to harder 113 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:28.240 truths now than I did ten years ago. And I know that there are 114 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:37.159 people that will tell me that I am not gentle enough in in what I'm 115 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:45.399 saying. Certainly the opposition says that frequently so. Um So it is not 116 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:52.240 necessarily true that because someone is is coming with a message that is a little 117 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.919 more hard hitting, that that is not going to be used by God. 118 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:05.759 But I do you think that there is a line that we can draw between 119 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:13.879 uh convicting message, maybe what someone might call a prophetic message, as opposed 120 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:22.799 to self righteous anger, and when and when we cross that line, I 121 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:30.320 think then we can begin to discuss whether what is happening is still biblical. 122 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:35.720 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think obviously as we teach in our 123 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.080 trainings, and we actually actually touch on this subject in our trainings. I 124 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:43.480 think we touch on it in the one oh one training how to deal with 125 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:46.159 other pro life groups. Maybe it's some one O two at this point, 126 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.840 but I don't exactly recall, but we do touch on it, and of 127 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:52.720 course we did. We did a podcast about this not terribly long ago. 128 00:09:54.360 --> 00:10:03.519 Um Our our angle always has to be what does the Bible say all right, 129 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:05.720 at the end of the day, that's got to be our foundation. 130 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:09.480 And I say that because if you have people that come out they're doing things 131 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:13.480 different than what you were trained under love life or what you feel like is 132 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.080 effective, that's not necessarily the measure of what is what is right and what 133 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.960 is good right just because we teach it we i'm, I'm. The Lord 134 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.000 has taught me enough to know that I don't know everything right, and that 135 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:28.679 just because I have a particular bend towards a particular way of doing things doesn't 136 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.360 necessarily mean that's the only thing that God will use. So the standard of 137 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.879 what is right and what is good and what's acceptable as far as outreach at 138 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.080 an abortion center is not love life, and it's not our feelings, and 139 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:45.879 it's not even what's pragmatic what works right. We certainly want to do things 140 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:48.799 that work, there's no doubt about that. But it really, first and 141 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:54.320 foremost has to be the scriptures right. And you can certainly look at scriptures 142 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:58.480 and see where people were pretty harsh John the Baptist, it was a pretty 143 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:03.679 harsh guy, um to people to repent and calling them a brood of snakes 144 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:07.879 and Jesus the same way many of the prophets in the Old Testament and uh 145 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:13.080 folks in the New Paul was a pretty pretty brash guy, and some people's 146 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:20.360 estimation confronted evil. So there's nothing necessarily wrong with being confrontational. But when 147 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.080 you get into the realm of it's like some of the things that were observed, 148 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.720 like name calling and stuff like that, that's when you step outside of 149 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:33.080 what's biblically allowed and you just get in the flesh. And I think that's 150 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:35.679 at least for this situation that we're kind of referencing that happened a couple of 151 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:39.039 days ago, I think these people were in the flesh. They're operating out 152 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:41.879 of the flesh. They're operating, like you said, out of self righteousness. 153 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:46.639 And you can see that self righteousness manifest itself when people are just calling 154 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:50.840 names. You know, you're you know, a horror or a murderer, 155 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:56.639 just flinging that word around like it's you know, the whatever, the word 156 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:01.240 that you need to use all the time, and it's it flows out of 157 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:05.039 self righteous as you can tell by the way that people carry themselves. Really 158 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:11.679 humility in this particular scenario, um would look like talking to the people who 159 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.159 are already out there. Right, If I showed up and then I've done 160 00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:18.440 this, show up to an abortion center that I've never been to before because 161 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.320 I feel like God has called me there. I visited cities all over the 162 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.360 nation that have abortion centers, and I show up out there and there are 163 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.039 people out there already doing the ministry. I'm not gonna just show up and 164 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.440 do my thing. Just start doing what I do. Even as as much 165 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:35.200 as I know the Lord has taught me and as effective as I know what 166 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:37.440 we do, and a biblical as biblical as I know what we do, 167 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:41.840 is if there are people out there doing the stuff, I'm not gonna come 168 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:45.600 in and start doing ministry over top of them. I'm gonna go and talk 169 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:48.639 to them. I'm gonna first thank them for being out there. That shows 170 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.559 humility, Right. And so if somebody just shows up out of the abortion 171 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.919 center you've been ministering to for a couple of years and just you know, 172 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.559 starts throwing around the biblical wrecking all with no regard for what you're doing, 173 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:05.159 you can you can pretty much deduce that these people are in the flesh, 174 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:11.080 because that doesn't honor God. Humility honors Lord, that's pride, it's arrogant. 175 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.120 It'd be like showing up. I mean, imagine you're a missionary. 176 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.759 This is kind of the picture that I actually helped our team with a little 177 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:20.240 bit and just help them to understand the dynamic here. But also we need 178 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.879 to come with humility ourselves. But the picture is you're you're a missionary. 179 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.279 And I've talked to let me just backtrack just a bit. I've talked to 180 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.759 people that do exactly what we're talking about. They show up to the abortion 181 00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:33.080 center. They just do their thing, disregarding the people that have been serving 182 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.360 out there for years because they feel like they need to do this or do 183 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:39.240 that. I've talked to these people, and this is the analogy that I've 184 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:43.399 given. Imagine that you're a missionary in a foreign country and you've been plowing 185 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:48.399 the ground there for five years. You've been reaching the people, you've been 186 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.279 building relationships with the people, and you've seen some fruit. All of a 187 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:58.000 sudden, this short term mission trip group comes out to where you're at doing 188 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:00.720 mission, where you've been doing it for five years. They show up right 189 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:03.600 in the middle of the town and they just put a wrecking ball in all 190 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:05.240 the all the things that you've built, all the things that you've worked for 191 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:09.720 in the relationships that you've worked to build, they just come up and they 192 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.600 start just street preaching all over the place, just really disregarding the work that 193 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.159 you've done, start doing what they feel like God has called them to. 194 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.000 Like, how would that make you feel? This is the analogy I'm trying 195 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.759 to give to the to the people that show up like that. I do 196 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:28.200 think helping people to understand that dynamic with analogies it's helpful. But sometimes with 197 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:33.919 these people it's not easy to uh have a conversation with them. And I'm 198 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.960 talking about some of the screet the street screecher type of people, people who 199 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:41.519 really an arrogance and pride, feel like their way or the highway, you 200 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:43.440 know, like there's no other way to preach, there's no other way to 201 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.639 engage people at an abortion center but their own way. So we don't want 202 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:50.519 to take that attitude for sure, and we want to combat that attitude, 203 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.080 but it's hard to get through to people that have have pride and hardness of 204 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.960 heart like that. Yeah, and so it's kind of some practical suggestion. 205 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:05.519 Gens, are you don't want to create division on the sidewalk in front of 206 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:11.440 the opposition. So it's very difficult to have this discussion right as it's happening. 207 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:13.240 And sometimes the best you can do. We're going to go into some 208 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.120 ideas for what are the best things you can do when you're in the midst 209 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:24.559 of that situation. But following that UM situation, taking the group the person 210 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:31.240 whoever the leader is, aside going for coffee whatever, having a private phone 211 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:35.039 call. It needs to be a private discussion. And I actually did do 212 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:39.720 this early on. This is not the first time the group has been there, 213 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.960 and the some of the principles I used are things that we train our 214 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.279 people to do, and I think that they're valuable. First of all, 215 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:50.840 find out where they thank them, like you said, Daniel, thank them 216 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:54.120 for showing up and for their zeal and fighting for the life of the preborn. 217 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.679 Secondly, find out where they're coming from. And I did find out 218 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:03.279 they they are street churs. They said that, and and I did talk 219 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:10.879 with them about in my experience where I see the street preaching approach UM being 220 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:14.159 in general less likely to get people to come and talk with us, and 221 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:18.480 that our our goal was that people would come and talk with us because then 222 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:22.759 we could um share the gospel, we could offer resources and take them on 223 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:27.559 on our mobile ultrasound unit have them more likely to choose life. And their 224 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:34.679 goal was not necessarily that the baby would be saved. Their life was really 225 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:40.639 to expose the wickedness. Their goal was to expose the wickedness and sin of 226 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:45.759 of what was happening there. So UM, it helps to kind of understand 227 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:48.639 what the goals are, and when the goals are different, there's probably gonna 228 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:53.559 be a little bit of clashing. We tried to work out a compromise, 229 00:16:53.960 --> 00:17:00.440 and in fact I would have preferred I suggested they go elsewhere, like to 230 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.799 a college campus or somewhere where you can reach women before they are in this 231 00:17:03.880 --> 00:17:07.759 life or death situation, because now there is the added element. Yes, 232 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.119 their souls are in danger, but there's a baby's life on the line, 233 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.920 and we know that if those moms will come and talk with us, that 234 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.960 baby might be saved. So um, but they weren't going to go for 235 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:22.039 that, but they did compromise they might they would come later in the day 236 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:26.759 when we were not there, and that didn't happen in this case. They 237 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:32.200 came while we were there. But um, but I think so. The 238 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:38.799 immediate first practical suggestion is have a private discussion afterwards, not there in front 239 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:42.319 of the opposition, and try to understand where they're coming from, and if 240 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:48.440 you can compromise, do so. But I would say, first and foremost, 241 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:52.160 just to have our minds and our hearts, right. Yeah. The 242 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:55.599 first thing is, like we talked about in our training, don't take it 243 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:57.319 personal, right, yeah, yeah, we talked about that, and when 244 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:02.759 dealing with angry people and dealing with aboarts, um, don't take it personal. 245 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.079 Don't internalize like they're not there because of you. They're there because they 246 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:08.759 feel like God has called them to be there. They're there because babies are 247 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:14.200 being murdered in there. Um. And then you know, the second thing 248 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:17.920 is just because they're not doing it like we do, and just because they 249 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:22.880 may be doing it unbiblically does not necessarily mean they aren't believers in Jesus. 250 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:27.759 They could just be and probably are just carnal, probably against self righteous, 251 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.839 and whether their believers or not, we have to believe the best. And 252 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:34.559 if they say that their believers in Jesus, um, we have to approach 253 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:38.240 them like that right, whether they are or not. And so I think 254 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:41.880 the Matthew eighteen model that we always talk about, which is what you're saying, 255 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:45.279 is to take them, to take them aside and talk with them rather 256 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:49.000 than One of the worst things that could happen is they're out there, they 257 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:52.720 come show up with their signs and their bullhorns and all that, and they 258 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.960 start yelling at the women over top of you. That's a terrible thing. 259 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.559 But what could be even worse than that is that you go back and forth 260 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.359 with them, yelling at them, and you start arguing with them about methodology 261 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.880 and all that other stuff, and it's just not helpful. Right, You're 262 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.839 you're adding more fuel to the fire. Essentially, you're trying to diffuse the 263 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:18.000 thing. But in reality, some some of these folks just you can't reason 264 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:21.359 with them, not in that context. And so it's good if you can 265 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:23.920 find out who the leader is, talk with them across the street or like 266 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:26.799 you said, over coffee or over the phone, like can we can we 267 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:30.319 talk about this? But immediately and I think you're gonna go into this, 268 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:36.319 but I'm not sure immediately, the best thing to do is kind of make 269 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.880 some distance between you and them. If you're able to do that. Now, 270 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:42.400 I'm not saying you yield ground. We certainly know that babies are dying 271 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.119 in there. We want to offer literature, we want to be effective. 272 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:48.839 But if we can get away from where these folks are so that we're not 273 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:53.559 associated with them, because we don't want people as much as we can to 274 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:59.720 associate us with that craziness, you know, you know, um, then 275 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.799 that could be helpful as well. Maybe position your team a little further up 276 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:07.000 the street, or your whatever at a different driveway or something. And at 277 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:11.039 the end of the day, um, you know, you can't control what 278 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.440 happens on the sidewalk, so you have to leave it in the Lord's hands, 279 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:15.359 right, you have to try to reason with them. If you can't 280 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:19.119 reason with them, I would say, reposition your team and then maybe at 281 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:22.920 another point there's an opportunity to reason with them, maybe on the phone or 282 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.119 meet with them. I mean, I've even gone as far is reaching out 283 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:30.839 and find out who their churches and reaching out to their pastors. I've done 284 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.160 that before as well, and getting their pastors input on it, in their 285 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.079 pastor to speak into it. And I've actually seen some good fruit from that. 286 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.920 Yeah, um, so I would. I would echo that point because 287 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:45.880 I think it's very important if if they are behaving in a way that you 288 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:51.559 truly cannot be in good conscience before the lord associated with that message. Because 289 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:56.519 the women only see one group. They don't see two different groups with two 290 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.640 different methods. They see a pro life group that is opposing them, and 291 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:06.359 they lump us all together. So I I absolutely agree, and that's what 292 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:10.640 we told our team to do. Move away. Move away so that you 293 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:14.279 are clearly a distinct different group, and the women will hear the difference in 294 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:18.720 your tone, and that physical separation will help them to know that you're the 295 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:23.440 ones offering UM, hope and help and UM and this other group seems to 296 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:30.240 be very concerned about UM. There we could behavior UM and calling that out 297 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:34.160 so the women maybe, well, we still have a chance they might approach 298 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:38.839 us. But I want to make the point also with Love Life in our 299 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:44.279 ministry, we we have team shirts. That's part of the reason for the 300 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:48.640 team shirts, and it's why it is so critical because this is going to 301 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:53.599 happen. It's going to happen on every sidewalk if you all are identifiable as 302 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:59.720 a group and another group comes in that isn't wearing the shirts. It just 303 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.359 may makes it easier for the women you're trying to reach, to make the 304 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:10.359 distinction between the two groups that you really are separate, separate, you have 305 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:15.759 UM at least a different way of reaching the women to say, real quick 306 00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:21.960 to talk about kind of the the division dynamic. When someone comes out there 307 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:25.319 on the sidewalk and you've been doing ministry out there for a long time and 308 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:30.079 they're being divisive, that's on them, right, UM, But we want 309 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.200 to be careful not to ourselves be divisive, right even though we don't agree 310 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:36.880 with their methodology, even though it's way over the top. We want to 311 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.240 try not to be divisive as much as it depends on us. And that's 312 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:45.240 what we've titled this UM this actual episode Romans chapter twelve, verse eighteen. 313 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:51.200 Yeah, if it is possible, Romans twelve eighteen says, if it is 314 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:55.359 possible, as much as it depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 315 00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:57.799 And so that's what we're encouraging you guys to do. And so one 316 00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:03.279 of the ways that you can actually be divisive not knowing and not realizing it 317 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:07.480 just because you know it's it's a practical way to deal with it is, 318 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:11.559 as the women are walking in, you can call out and say, we're 319 00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:15.559 not with them, We're not with the people out here yelling not knowing that 320 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:19.519 actually that that's divisive actually, and so instead of doing that, you could 321 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:22.559 say something. And this is where the shirts come in. Hey, come 322 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:26.759 out and talk with someone in the coral shirt. You know that's not as 323 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:29.480 divisive as Hey, we're not with them. Don't talk to them, talk 324 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:33.359 to us. And so you know, it's it's kind of a practical. 325 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.480 People wonder why why don't y'all have the same shirts. What's so important about 326 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:38.720 wearing the shirts? We even talked about it in the training, wearing the 327 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:44.839 coral Hope is Here shirts. It's it's to distinguish ourselves from other groups. 328 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:47.480 So we don't have to say who we're not with. We can have we 329 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.240 can very easily say who we are with the people in the coral shirts. 330 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:52.440 Peace, come over and talk to the folks in the coral shirts. So 331 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:56.720 I wanted to mention that, Yeah, um, and so as much as 332 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:00.119 it depends on you, as I was thinking about that great verse that you 333 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:04.920 brought up, but um, I know that I need to behave the way 334 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:12.200 that Scripture tells me to behave, And I have to trust that God is 335 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:18.599 going to iron out whatever needs to be ironed out, and he knows that 336 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.440 they're there. I have to keep remembering that He knows that that other group 337 00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:29.000 is there. He could have had them have a um, a major detour, 338 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.079 or a flat tire or whatever where they would not show up. And 339 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:41.640 I think sometimes we can learn and develop in ourselves, uh through some of 340 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:48.440 these sorts of obstacles that we face. Are we going to respond in the 341 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.680 flesh? Are we going to respond with anger? Are we going to respond 342 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:57.319 by creating division? Or are we going to do the best that we can 343 00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:03.720 before God to spond in the way that God would have us respond? And 344 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:08.079 and of course that that's what we desire to do. Some of some of 345 00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:12.559 the teams, when they face this, will have as our team did, 346 00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:18.400 the use of amplified sound. We do have a microphone, and because of 347 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.480 the way that the laws are set up, we had the use of that 348 00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:26.839 microphone in this other group did not. And one of the questions that my 349 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:32.680 counselor asked me was is it okay for me to go ahead and speak over 350 00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:37.160 them? They were not stopping, they were not ceasing for a second from 351 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.279 speaking with all this anger. But we knew we could be heard over them 352 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.960 with the microphone, and she said, can I should I, and I 353 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.640 I recommended that she should, and that may or may not have been correct. 354 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:55.559 I don't know. There was a saved baby that day who came after 355 00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:59.400 the other group left. Yeah, praise God for that. But I I 356 00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:03.960 think if you are able not in a shouting match, if they if it 357 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:07.400 had just been the voices and us trying to scream louder than them, no, 358 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.400 I probably would have said, no, just move up the street, 359 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:14.079 try to stop cars before they even get there. But since we did have 360 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.920 that tool and we didn't have to yell, we could speak in a quiet 361 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.839 voice but over the microphone, and we could still be heard over the angry 362 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.839 other group. I did recommend that that she do that. Yeah. Yeah, 363 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.400 it's kind of strange. And I don't know if you have this in 364 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.319 the article, but one of the one of the fallouts, one of the 365 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:40.799 positive effects of this is that our pro abortion opposition and seeing the differences, 366 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:44.160 and I've actually told them this all along, I've said, you might not 367 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:47.160 like us being out here. But I can promise you someone's going to be 368 00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.279 out here as long as there's killing babies, you should be glad that it's 369 00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.559 us and not some other group. Yeah, And I think they got a 370 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.599 little taste of that the other they did. And I think they even saw 371 00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.480 that and communicated that to our team that was out there. It's like, 372 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.759 you guys are a lot different than them, right. They were even making 373 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:07.519 they were even setting themselves up and everything so that our team could call out 374 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.880 more effectively, and they would they would tell her, you go ahead, 375 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:18.200 you talk now, and so uh so it it did work in a funny 376 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.920 way. In these pro abortion opposition are people that we pray for and we 377 00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:27.400 desire them to come to the Lord. And what they did see that day, 378 00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:33.200 I think was the difference between the wrath maybe not of God, but 379 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.079 but they saw wrath and anger. It was the indignation of man. It 380 00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:41.960 was the Bible says the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. 381 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.400 And what they saw was the anger of man out there on display from 382 00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.640 those street screechers. And then they saw the actual I mean, we should 383 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:53.079 be angry at the sin of abortion, and uh but it's an anger. 384 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:57.319 If it isn't anger at all, that's baptized in the love of God, 385 00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:00.480 right, Yeah, And I think that that what they saw. I think 386 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:04.839 that that's what they saw, is they saw the love of Christ in action, 387 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:10.759 in the tone, in the offers, in the language in Um, 388 00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:15.720 not the name calling. Nothing we did. Nothing, our team did changed 389 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.160 like they did what they always They're trained to do what the Bible says we 390 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:23.000 should be doing. UM. I want to mention a scripture. And I 391 00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:27.119 don't know how many times I've mentioned this scripture in this podcast. UM, 392 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:30.359 but you can never mention the scripture too much. But I think it's an 393 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:36.400 applicable scripture. And again, I have had this this experience before. I've 394 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:41.079 had plenty of times where people show up and they just do things way over 395 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.839 the top. It's in the flesh. It doesn't produce the righteousness of God. 396 00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.319 And when I've been able to talk with them, I think this scripture 397 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.319 has really helped because with these folks, these are the folks that you know, 398 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.839 a lot of times carry around the biggest King James Bible you can get 399 00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:59.279 on the face of the planet, right, and they waved the thing around 400 00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:03.880 like it's you know, it's it's their salvation whenever. Really, Jesus is 401 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:07.319 our salvation, right, And that the bigger the Bible you have doesn't doesn't 402 00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:11.680 mean the more righteous you are. But some of these folks think that that's 403 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.680 the case. And so I've reasoned with them from the scriptures, because to 404 00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:18.720 me, again, that's the foundation of what we do. It's the Bible. 405 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.839 It's not my feelings. It's not what's effective, it's not what society 406 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.240 says or anything. It's what does the scripture say. And so when I've 407 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.279 been able to have a conversation with folks like this, I opened up this 408 00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:34.319 scripture and Second Timothy chapter two. This is Paul speaking with his understudy Timothy 409 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.240 and Second Timothy chapter two, verse two, and it says, and the 410 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.400 servant of the Lord must not quarrel, but be gentle to all able to 411 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:47.079 teach, patient in humility, correcting those who are in opposition. If perhaps 412 00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:49.599 God will grant them repentance so that they may know the truth, and that 413 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:53.920 they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having 414 00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:59.400 been taken captive by him to do his will. And so I'm talking to 415 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:02.039 these people that are again are doing things over the top there, you know, 416 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:06.039 screeching rather than preaching and just out there in the flesh and helping them 417 00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.200 to understand the Bible says what you're doing is actually not the way the servant 418 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.000 the Lord conducts himself. All you're doing is arguing. All you're out here 419 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:18.079 doing is gelling, hurling insults. You're doing exactly what this scripture says a 420 00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:22.440 servant the Lord should not be doing. And so you need to correct that. 421 00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.720 And this is why we don't like you being out here is because you're 422 00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:30.440 not you're not honoring Jesus in the way that you're conducting yourself. Now I 423 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.240 might come a little harsher than that, or I might come a little softer 424 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.839 than that, based on how the relationship is and based on if they're willing 425 00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:40.000 to hear me or not. But I have seen that be effective. And 426 00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:44.880 actually the Lord helped me with that scripture because it's pretty much a direct like 427 00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:48.319 correlation with what we're doing. This is how the servant the Lord should conduct 428 00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:52.880 themselves. And um so I think again, looking at the scriptures and letting 429 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:57.079 the scripture be the standard is probably the mode, well not probably definitely the 430 00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:02.839 most important thing for us and hopefully to influence people that are out there, 431 00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:07.079 pro life people out there causing problems. Yeah. So, I don't know 432 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.839 if there are any other things that you wanted to cover, but I think 433 00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:14.799 we're pretty much at the end of this episode and ready to wrap it up. 434 00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:18.440 Anything you want to say in closing, Um, the the only scripture 435 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:22.039 that that I wanted to pull out is from Second Chronicles, which I closed 436 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.799 the article with because it's always such a helpful scripture for me. Um. 437 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.680 Nor do we know what to do, but our eyes are on you as 438 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:36.279 as the writer is speaking to God. When when the horde comes upon us, 439 00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:40.519 when when there's opposition, we often don't know what to do, but 440 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:44.440 just keep your eyes on Jesus and be sure that that He is your focus 441 00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:48.559 and and not your flesh. Yeah, yeah, definitely in those times, 442 00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.880 those are times to be lifting up your prayer to the Lord God. I'm 443 00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.079 surrounded. It seems like the pro life people are against me. It seems 444 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.400 like the pro abortion people against me. The women going into the abortion clinic 445 00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:01.400 are yelling at me. It's like, but the Bible says, if God 446 00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:04.960 is for us, who can be against us and listen. If you guys, 447 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:08.319 heart is to obey God and to do things according to His word. 448 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:13.000 God is for you, so who can be against you? Right, even 449 00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.599 if the world is against you, God is for you. So I just 450 00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:17.599 want you guys to know, in the midst of opposition, in the midst 451 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:21.279 of issues that come up out there at the abortion center, this is a 452 00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:23.880 battle. But God's fighting this battle with you, and we appreciate what you 453 00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:27.720 guys are doing. We would love for you to reach out to us if 454 00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.920 we can offer any encouragement. You can reach out to meet Daniel at love 455 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:35.319 life dot org and reach her Vicky with a y at love life dot org. 456 00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:37.160 We'd love to hear from you, and also we'd love for you guys 457 00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.319 to leave us a review, share this podcast, and until next time. 458 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:52.319 God bless God, bless you. Give me out love for love, give 459 00:32:52.440 --> 00:33:06.519 me our love for gratitude. I'm it will cost me my life. Nothing's 460 00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:17.200 too precious. Since I met you, M