In As Much As It Depends On Us

WEBVTT100:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.720So as much as it depends onyou. As I was thinking about that200:00:03.799 --> 00:00:07.759great verse that you brought up,I know that I need to behave the300:00:07.799 --> 00:00:15.199way that Scripture tells me to behave. And I have to trust that God400:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.640is going to iron out whatever needsto be ironed out, and he knows500:00:20.719 --> 00:00:25.239that they're there. I have tokeep remembering that he knows that that other600:00:25.320 --> 00:00:32.000group is there. I am yours, I'm yours, I'm yours. And700:00:32.280 --> 00:00:38.719me Lord, I'm yours, I'myours, I'm Welcome to the Gospel Centered800:00:38.719 --> 00:00:44.039Pro Life Podcast, a podcast designedto equip, encourage, and challenge you900:00:44.119 --> 00:00:48.280in pro life ministry and always witha focus on the gospel. Stay tuned.1000:00:50.280 --> 00:01:00.759I felt your pashed, touch yourheart use welcome back to the Gospel1100:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.799Centered Pro Life Podcast. Appreciate youguys joining us, And just to give1200:01:04.799 --> 00:01:08.239you guys the heads up, weare recording remotely, so if the sound1300:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.280is a little different than it normallyis, that's the reason why. But1400:01:11.439 --> 00:01:15.560we are committed to bringing you theseepisodes every week. So when we're not1500:01:15.599 --> 00:01:22.480able to be together in person andrecord an episode, vikinna record remotely and1600:01:22.599 --> 00:01:26.280uh so, yeah, this thiswill go well and UM, I just1700:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.319wanted to mention too, as weoften do at the beginning of the podcast,1800:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.640we would love for you guys toleave us a review of this podcast1900:01:32.680 --> 00:01:36.680episode and a review of this podcastjust in general. We'd also love for2000:01:36.680 --> 00:01:38.480you to share this podcast with otherpeople that you think it would be a2100:01:38.519 --> 00:01:42.640blessing too. And then we wouldencourage you to reach out to us if2200:01:42.640 --> 00:01:48.079you have questions or suggestions for futureepisodes, maybe comments about this particular episode,2300:01:48.519 --> 00:01:51.359UM, and we'll give our emailaddresses at the end. Also,2400:01:51.519 --> 00:01:55.840I want to mention UM something thatwe've mentioned often but maybe haven't mentioned in2500:01:55.840 --> 00:01:59.239a while, which is two websitesthat we have that would be a blessing2600:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.000to you. We created those tobless those who want to get involved in2700:02:01.000 --> 00:02:07.040sidewalk ministry or who are doing sidewalkministry. The first website is the Gospel2800:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.479Centered pro life dot com websites.If you just go to Gospel Center pro2900:02:10.560 --> 00:02:15.639life dot com, that's our podcastwebsite. So all the information for these3000:02:15.639 --> 00:02:20.680podcasts, all the past episodes,all of that stuff is there, and3100:02:20.759 --> 00:02:23.479you can actually search for keywords ifyou're looking for a particular episode that might3200:02:23.520 --> 00:02:28.319have covered a particular subject. Soyeah, Gospel Centered Pro Life dot Com3300:02:28.360 --> 00:02:30.759is our podcast website, and thenwe have a website that's a training and3400:02:30.759 --> 00:02:36.319equipping website for people that want toget involved in sidewalk ministry and that sidewalks3500:02:36.400 --> 00:02:40.000the number four life dot com SoSidewalks for Life dot com. You can3600:02:40.000 --> 00:02:45.000go check that out. There's articlesthere, the articles that we post that3700:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.319have to do with this UM.The article that we're gonna post that has3800:02:47.360 --> 00:02:52.759to do with this particular episode isgonna be on um Sidewalks for Life dot3900:02:52.840 --> 00:02:54.719com. And there's a bunch ofother articles and a bunch of other stuff4000:02:54.759 --> 00:03:00.439there. So with that, Vicky, let's jump into our episode. What4100:03:00.680 --> 00:03:06.319is our subject for today? Well, this, as many of our podcast4200:03:06.800 --> 00:03:10.800developed, was developed from an actualsituation that happened on the sidewalk. It's4300:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.960very very common. We've actually discussedit before, but we felt it it4400:03:16.599 --> 00:03:22.479probably needed to be talked about again. And that is what to do when4500:03:22.520 --> 00:03:28.439there are other groups that are onour side, pro life groups, Christians4600:03:28.719 --> 00:03:37.159who come with a very different wayof approaching the women, and in this4700:03:37.199 --> 00:03:44.719particular situation away which we really werehesitant to be associated with UM, it4800:03:44.840 --> 00:03:51.199was it was much harsher, muchharsher than how we would train our love4900:03:51.280 --> 00:03:57.159life counselors in general to interact withwith the women. And it always creates5000:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.520a great deal of tension. Andhonestly, I will tell tell you that5100:04:00.599 --> 00:04:04.120when I come up against that,it is more difficult for me to deal5200:04:04.159 --> 00:04:11.120with than when the opposition is terrible. Yeah, yeah, which is it's5300:04:11.120 --> 00:04:14.039almost like you get you get hiton every side. And so just to5400:04:14.080 --> 00:04:16.480give you guys a picture of whatwe're talking about, there was a situation5500:04:16.560 --> 00:04:20.240just a few days ago where,uh, I don't know, three or5600:04:20.279 --> 00:04:24.800four people showed up on the sidewalkhere in Charlotte, and our team was5700:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.240already out there. Our team isout there typically from nine to twelve,5800:04:28.920 --> 00:04:31.480reaching out sometimes a little before andafter. But um, this group shows5900:04:31.560 --> 00:04:35.959up as our team is out theredoing their thing, and they start yelling6000:04:36.000 --> 00:04:40.439at the women, start yelling thingsthat are just you know, really over6100:04:40.480 --> 00:04:47.000the top, unnecessarily um confrontational,under unnecessarily offensive things. We're certainly not6200:04:47.079 --> 00:04:53.000against saying offensive things like saying abortionistmurder is pretty offensive to people. Were6300:04:53.040 --> 00:04:55.680certainly not against that, But thereare some things that are over the top.6400:04:56.279 --> 00:04:58.360And one of the things that happens, you know, we already have6500:04:58.439 --> 00:05:00.560opposition out there, many of theABO centers that you guys are ministering,6600:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.600Yet you have some kind of opposition, maybe people that drive by and curse6700:05:03.680 --> 00:05:08.600you, or maybe have pro abortionpeople out there with their rainbow umbrellas,6800:05:08.600 --> 00:05:12.319invests and all that stuff. Andyou know, we're already getting hit from6900:05:12.360 --> 00:05:16.759that angle right there, already hurlingfalse accusations against us and cursing us and7000:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.199all of that. To get hitfrom the other angle from the people that7100:05:20.240 --> 00:05:25.600you think should be on your side, um, can make things pretty difficult.7200:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.319And so we're gonna talk through thatand talk through kind of like how7300:05:29.519 --> 00:05:31.639you can navigate through that, howyou can deal with that, how to7400:05:31.720 --> 00:05:36.800process that, and uh and stillkeep keep doing what God has called you7500:05:36.839 --> 00:05:40.720to do. It's it's again,it's not easy. One of the first7600:05:40.800 --> 00:05:45.839things I'll say, as we talkedabout this before we started recording, is7700:05:46.279 --> 00:05:48.920in a lot of these situations,now, some of these situations, it7800:05:49.000 --> 00:05:53.240can be that they come out,these other pro life people or whatever they7900:05:53.240 --> 00:05:57.319call themselves, street preachers can comeout. And I'm not against street preachers,8000:05:57.319 --> 00:06:00.519like street preaching is awesome. Peopleget saved, it's amazing. But8100:06:00.560 --> 00:06:03.279there are some that maybe you wouldcall One guy said, they're not street8200:06:03.319 --> 00:06:06.519preachers, they're streets screechers, right, They're just out there just to make8300:06:06.560 --> 00:06:12.759a noise. And you know,there was a situation actually, um several8400:06:12.759 --> 00:06:15.560months ago where some of those folkscame out to one of our cities and8500:06:15.600 --> 00:06:19.759we're actually targeting the side of ballcounselors out there, like targeting targeting them,8600:06:19.800 --> 00:06:23.759calling them names and then calling thewomen that are going in names and8700:06:24.279 --> 00:06:30.040just dishonoring the Lord. But inmost of these situations, you gotta understand8800:06:30.079 --> 00:06:32.959these people are coming out and thoughthey may not be doing things like we8900:06:33.040 --> 00:06:36.240do them, and that they maybe doing things that are over the top,9000:06:36.759 --> 00:06:40.560they're not really coming out to opposeyou. Yes, it's throwing a9100:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.079monkey wrench in what you're doing,but they're not coming out necessarily in their9200:06:44.120 --> 00:06:47.199heart to cause you problems. They'recoming out to to do what they feel9300:06:47.240 --> 00:06:50.720like God has called them to.Now whether or not God has called them9400:06:50.720 --> 00:06:54.560to that can be up for debate, and I think the debates pretty much9500:06:54.600 --> 00:06:57.720settled. When they're doing unbiblical things, God has not called them to that,9600:06:58.600 --> 00:07:00.199but we do have to understand thatit's not. One of the things9700:07:00.240 --> 00:07:03.519I told you about is we can'ttake it personal. And I think that's9800:07:03.600 --> 00:07:08.680probably the main thing as we talkabout opposition from whatever side it comes,9900:07:09.120 --> 00:07:12.160is we can't take it personal.So I wanted to say that first and10000:07:12.199 --> 00:07:15.839foremost. Yeah, I really likethat, that we really have to not10100:07:15.959 --> 00:07:25.120take it personally. And another similarthought is we need to recognize that our10200:07:25.160 --> 00:07:30.439way is not always the only way. Now, I felt very clearly I10300:07:30.480 --> 00:07:35.079heard this group UM, and Idid feel it was over the top,10400:07:35.120 --> 00:07:39.959and I did feel it was notwhat God would have them do. But10500:07:40.040 --> 00:07:44.920I as I was thinking through thisissue and how the best deal with it,10600:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.160one of the things that that Iknow is true of me is I've10700:07:47.160 --> 00:07:53.519been out there for ten years andwhen I started on the sidewalk mine,10800:07:53.879 --> 00:07:58.040I think the way I spoke,the things that I said, I would10900:07:58.040 --> 00:08:03.680probably characterize as gentle learn than Iam now. I do try to speak11000:08:03.839 --> 00:08:13.600always UM with a gentle tone andcompassion and UM try to empathize with or11100:08:13.680 --> 00:08:18.240sympathize at best with UM, atleast with where these women are coming from11200:08:18.240 --> 00:08:22.759in the situations they face, ButI think I'm more readily go to harder11300:08:22.839 --> 00:08:28.240truths now than I did ten yearsago. And I know that there are11400:08:28.279 --> 00:08:37.159people that will tell me that Iam not gentle enough in in what I'm11500:08:37.200 --> 00:08:45.399saying. Certainly the opposition says thatfrequently so. Um So it is not11600:08:45.480 --> 00:08:52.240necessarily true that because someone is iscoming with a message that is a little11700:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.919more hard hitting, that that isnot going to be used by God.11800:08:58.279 --> 00:09:05.759But I do you think that thereis a line that we can draw between11900:09:05.879 --> 00:09:13.879uh convicting message, maybe what someonemight call a prophetic message, as opposed12000:09:13.919 --> 00:09:22.799to self righteous anger, and whenand when we cross that line, I12100:09:22.840 --> 00:09:30.320think then we can begin to discusswhether what is happening is still biblical.12200:09:30.840 --> 00:09:35.720Yeah. Yeah, I mean,I think obviously as we teach in our12300:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.080trainings, and we actually actually touchon this subject in our trainings. I12400:09:39.080 --> 00:09:43.480think we touch on it in theone oh one training how to deal with12500:09:43.519 --> 00:09:46.159other pro life groups. Maybe it'ssome one O two at this point,12600:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.840but I don't exactly recall, butwe do touch on it, and of12700:09:48.879 --> 00:09:52.720course we did. We did apodcast about this not terribly long ago.12800:09:54.360 --> 00:10:03.519Um Our our angle always has tobe what does the Bible say all right,12900:10:03.759 --> 00:10:05.720at the end of the day,that's got to be our foundation.13000:10:05.399 --> 00:10:09.480And I say that because if youhave people that come out they're doing things13100:10:09.519 --> 00:10:13.480different than what you were trained underlove life or what you feel like is13200:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.080effective, that's not necessarily the measureof what is what is right and what13300:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.960is good right just because we teachit we i'm, I'm. The Lord13400:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.000has taught me enough to know thatI don't know everything right, and that13500:10:26.120 --> 00:10:28.679just because I have a particular bendtowards a particular way of doing things doesn't13600:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.360necessarily mean that's the only thing thatGod will use. So the standard of13700:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.879what is right and what is goodand what's acceptable as far as outreach at13800:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.080an abortion center is not love life, and it's not our feelings, and13900:10:41.080 --> 00:10:45.879it's not even what's pragmatic what worksright. We certainly want to do things14000:10:45.879 --> 00:10:48.799that work, there's no doubt aboutthat. But it really, first and14100:10:48.799 --> 00:10:54.320foremost has to be the scriptures right. And you can certainly look at scriptures14200:10:54.360 --> 00:10:58.480and see where people were pretty harshJohn the Baptist, it was a pretty14300:10:58.480 --> 00:11:03.679harsh guy, um to people torepent and calling them a brood of snakes14400:11:03.720 --> 00:11:07.879and Jesus the same way many ofthe prophets in the Old Testament and uh14500:11:09.000 --> 00:11:13.080folks in the New Paul was apretty pretty brash guy, and some people's14600:11:13.159 --> 00:11:20.360estimation confronted evil. So there's nothingnecessarily wrong with being confrontational. But when14700:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.080you get into the realm of it'slike some of the things that were observed,14800:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.720like name calling and stuff like that, that's when you step outside of14900:11:26.759 --> 00:11:33.080what's biblically allowed and you just getin the flesh. And I think that's15000:11:33.120 --> 00:11:35.679at least for this situation that we'rekind of referencing that happened a couple of15100:11:35.720 --> 00:11:39.039days ago, I think these peoplewere in the flesh. They're operating out15200:11:39.039 --> 00:11:41.879of the flesh. They're operating,like you said, out of self righteousness.15300:11:43.320 --> 00:11:46.639And you can see that self righteousnessmanifest itself when people are just calling15400:11:46.799 --> 00:11:50.840names. You know, you're youknow, a horror or a murderer,15500:11:52.000 --> 00:11:56.639just flinging that word around like it'syou know, the whatever, the word15600:11:56.639 --> 00:12:01.240that you need to use all thetime, and it's it flows out of15700:12:01.240 --> 00:12:05.039self righteous as you can tell bythe way that people carry themselves. Really15800:12:05.240 --> 00:12:11.679humility in this particular scenario, umwould look like talking to the people who15900:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.159are already out there. Right,If I showed up and then I've done16000:12:15.159 --> 00:12:18.440this, show up to an abortioncenter that I've never been to before because16100:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.320I feel like God has called methere. I visited cities all over the16200:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.360nation that have abortion centers, andI show up out there and there are16300:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.039people out there already doing the ministry. I'm not gonna just show up and16400:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.440do my thing. Just start doingwhat I do. Even as as much16500:12:31.440 --> 00:12:35.200as I know the Lord has taughtme and as effective as I know what16600:12:35.240 --> 00:12:37.440we do, and a biblical asbiblical as I know what we do,16700:12:37.600 --> 00:12:41.840is if there are people out theredoing the stuff, I'm not gonna come16800:12:41.879 --> 00:12:45.600in and start doing ministry over topof them. I'm gonna go and talk16900:12:45.639 --> 00:12:48.639to them. I'm gonna first thankthem for being out there. That shows17000:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.559humility, Right. And so ifsomebody just shows up out of the abortion17100:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.919center you've been ministering to for acouple of years and just you know,17200:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.559starts throwing around the biblical wrecking allwith no regard for what you're doing,17300:13:01.799 --> 00:13:05.159you can you can pretty much deducethat these people are in the flesh,17400:13:05.440 --> 00:13:11.080because that doesn't honor God. Humilityhonors Lord, that's pride, it's arrogant.17500:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.120It'd be like showing up. Imean, imagine you're a missionary.17600:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.759This is kind of the picture thatI actually helped our team with a little17700:13:16.799 --> 00:13:20.240bit and just help them to understandthe dynamic here. But also we need17800:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.879to come with humility ourselves. Butthe picture is you're you're a missionary.17900:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.279And I've talked to let me justbacktrack just a bit. I've talked to18000:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.759people that do exactly what we're talkingabout. They show up to the abortion18100:13:30.759 --> 00:13:33.080center. They just do their thing, disregarding the people that have been serving18200:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.360out there for years because they feellike they need to do this or do18300:13:37.399 --> 00:13:39.240that. I've talked to these people, and this is the analogy that I've18400:13:39.279 --> 00:13:43.399given. Imagine that you're a missionaryin a foreign country and you've been plowing18500:13:43.399 --> 00:13:48.399the ground there for five years.You've been reaching the people, you've been18600:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.279building relationships with the people, andyou've seen some fruit. All of a18700:13:52.320 --> 00:13:58.000sudden, this short term mission tripgroup comes out to where you're at doing18800:13:58.039 --> 00:14:00.720mission, where you've been doing itfor five years. They show up right18900:14:00.759 --> 00:14:03.600in the middle of the town andthey just put a wrecking ball in all19000:14:03.639 --> 00:14:05.240the all the things that you've built, all the things that you've worked for19100:14:05.240 --> 00:14:09.720in the relationships that you've worked tobuild, they just come up and they19200:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.600start just street preaching all over theplace, just really disregarding the work that19300:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.159you've done, start doing what theyfeel like God has called them to.19400:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.000Like, how would that make youfeel? This is the analogy I'm trying19500:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.759to give to the to the peoplethat show up like that. I do19600:14:22.840 --> 00:14:28.200think helping people to understand that dynamicwith analogies it's helpful. But sometimes with19700:14:28.279 --> 00:14:33.919these people it's not easy to uhhave a conversation with them. And I'm19800:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.960talking about some of the screet thestreet screecher type of people, people who19900:14:37.440 --> 00:14:41.519really an arrogance and pride, feellike their way or the highway, you20000:14:41.559 --> 00:14:43.440know, like there's no other wayto preach, there's no other way to20100:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.639engage people at an abortion center buttheir own way. So we don't want20200:14:46.639 --> 00:14:50.519to take that attitude for sure,and we want to combat that attitude,20300:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.080but it's hard to get through topeople that have have pride and hardness of20400:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.960heart like that. Yeah, andso it's kind of some practical suggestion.20500:15:00.080 --> 00:15:05.519Gens, are you don't want tocreate division on the sidewalk in front of20600:15:05.559 --> 00:15:11.440the opposition. So it's very difficultto have this discussion right as it's happening.20700:15:11.480 --> 00:15:13.240And sometimes the best you can do. We're going to go into some20800:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.120ideas for what are the best thingsyou can do when you're in the midst20900:15:16.120 --> 00:15:24.559of that situation. But following thatUM situation, taking the group the person21000:15:24.600 --> 00:15:31.240whoever the leader is, aside goingfor coffee whatever, having a private phone21100:15:31.240 --> 00:15:35.039call. It needs to be aprivate discussion. And I actually did do21200:15:35.120 --> 00:15:39.720this early on. This is notthe first time the group has been there,21300:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.960and the some of the principles Iused are things that we train our21400:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.279people to do, and I thinkthat they're valuable. First of all,21500:15:48.679 --> 00:15:50.840find out where they thank them,like you said, Daniel, thank them21600:15:50.840 --> 00:15:54.120for showing up and for their zealand fighting for the life of the preborn.21700:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.679Secondly, find out where they're comingfrom. And I did find out21800:15:58.759 --> 00:16:03.279they they are street churs. Theysaid that, and and I did talk21900:16:03.360 --> 00:16:10.879with them about in my experience whereI see the street preaching approach UM being22000:16:10.919 --> 00:16:14.159in general less likely to get peopleto come and talk with us, and22100:16:14.200 --> 00:16:18.480that our our goal was that peoplewould come and talk with us because then22200:16:18.519 --> 00:16:22.759we could um share the gospel,we could offer resources and take them on22300:16:22.759 --> 00:16:27.559on our mobile ultrasound unit have themmore likely to choose life. And their22400:16:27.639 --> 00:16:34.679goal was not necessarily that the babywould be saved. Their life was really22500:16:34.720 --> 00:16:40.639to expose the wickedness. Their goalwas to expose the wickedness and sin of22600:16:40.639 --> 00:16:45.759of what was happening there. SoUM, it helps to kind of understand22700:16:45.879 --> 00:16:48.639what the goals are, and whenthe goals are different, there's probably gonna22800:16:48.679 --> 00:16:53.559be a little bit of clashing.We tried to work out a compromise,22900:16:53.960 --> 00:17:00.440and in fact I would have preferredI suggested they go elsewhere, like to23000:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.799a college campus or somewhere where youcan reach women before they are in this23100:17:03.880 --> 00:17:07.759life or death situation, because nowthere is the added element. Yes,23200:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.119their souls are in danger, butthere's a baby's life on the line,23300:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.920and we know that if those momswill come and talk with us, that23400:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.960baby might be saved. So um, but they weren't going to go for23500:17:19.039 --> 00:17:22.039that, but they did compromise theymight they would come later in the day23600:17:22.039 --> 00:17:26.759when we were not there, andthat didn't happen in this case. They23700:17:26.799 --> 00:17:32.200came while we were there. Butum, but I think so. The23800:17:32.240 --> 00:17:38.799immediate first practical suggestion is have aprivate discussion afterwards, not there in front23900:17:38.799 --> 00:17:42.319of the opposition, and try tounderstand where they're coming from, and if24000:17:42.359 --> 00:17:48.440you can compromise, do so.But I would say, first and foremost,24100:17:48.519 --> 00:17:52.160just to have our minds and ourhearts, right. Yeah. The24200:17:52.200 --> 00:17:55.599first thing is, like we talkedabout in our training, don't take it24300:17:55.640 --> 00:17:57.319personal, right, yeah, yeah, we talked about that, and when24400:17:57.359 --> 00:18:02.759dealing with angry people and dealing withaboarts, um, don't take it personal.24500:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.079Don't internalize like they're not there becauseof you. They're there because they24600:18:07.079 --> 00:18:08.759feel like God has called them tobe there. They're there because babies are24700:18:08.759 --> 00:18:14.200being murdered in there. Um.And then you know, the second thing24800:18:14.319 --> 00:18:17.920is just because they're not doing itlike we do, and just because they24900:18:17.960 --> 00:18:22.880may be doing it unbiblically does notnecessarily mean they aren't believers in Jesus.25000:18:22.079 --> 00:18:27.759They could just be and probably arejust carnal, probably against self righteous,25100:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.839and whether their believers or not,we have to believe the best. And25200:18:30.880 --> 00:18:34.559if they say that their believers inJesus, um, we have to approach25300:18:34.599 --> 00:18:38.240them like that right, whether theyare or not. And so I think25400:18:38.279 --> 00:18:41.880the Matthew eighteen model that we alwaystalk about, which is what you're saying,25500:18:42.160 --> 00:18:45.279is to take them, to takethem aside and talk with them rather25600:18:45.319 --> 00:18:49.000than One of the worst things thatcould happen is they're out there, they25700:18:49.039 --> 00:18:52.720come show up with their signs andtheir bullhorns and all that, and they25800:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.960start yelling at the women over topof you. That's a terrible thing.25900:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.559But what could be even worse thanthat is that you go back and forth26000:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.359with them, yelling at them,and you start arguing with them about methodology26100:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.880and all that other stuff, andit's just not helpful. Right, You're26200:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.839you're adding more fuel to the fire. Essentially, you're trying to diffuse the26300:19:12.880 --> 00:19:18.000thing. But in reality, somesome of these folks just you can't reason26400:19:18.039 --> 00:19:21.359with them, not in that context. And so it's good if you can26500:19:21.359 --> 00:19:23.920find out who the leader is,talk with them across the street or like26600:19:23.960 --> 00:19:26.799you said, over coffee or overthe phone, like can we can we26700:19:26.839 --> 00:19:30.319talk about this? But immediately andI think you're gonna go into this,26800:19:30.400 --> 00:19:36.319but I'm not sure immediately, thebest thing to do is kind of make26900:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.880some distance between you and them.If you're able to do that. Now,27000:19:38.920 --> 00:19:42.400I'm not saying you yield ground.We certainly know that babies are dying27100:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.119in there. We want to offerliterature, we want to be effective.27200:19:45.640 --> 00:19:48.839But if we can get away fromwhere these folks are so that we're not27300:19:48.880 --> 00:19:53.559associated with them, because we don'twant people as much as we can to27400:19:53.599 --> 00:19:59.720associate us with that craziness, youknow, you know, um, then27500:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.799that could be helpful as well.Maybe position your team a little further up27600:20:02.839 --> 00:20:07.000the street, or your whatever ata different driveway or something. And at27700:20:07.000 --> 00:20:11.039the end of the day, um, you know, you can't control what27800:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.440happens on the sidewalk, so youhave to leave it in the Lord's hands,27900:20:14.559 --> 00:20:15.359right, you have to try toreason with them. If you can't28000:20:15.359 --> 00:20:19.119reason with them, I would say, reposition your team and then maybe at28100:20:19.119 --> 00:20:22.920another point there's an opportunity to reasonwith them, maybe on the phone or28200:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.119meet with them. I mean,I've even gone as far is reaching out28300:20:26.119 --> 00:20:30.839and find out who their churches andreaching out to their pastors. I've done28400:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.160that before as well, and gettingtheir pastors input on it, in their28500:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.079pastor to speak into it. AndI've actually seen some good fruit from that.28600:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.920Yeah, um, so I would. I would echo that point because28700:20:40.960 --> 00:20:45.880I think it's very important if ifthey are behaving in a way that you28800:20:45.960 --> 00:20:51.559truly cannot be in good conscience beforethe lord associated with that message. Because28900:20:51.599 --> 00:20:56.519the women only see one group.They don't see two different groups with two29000:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.640different methods. They see a prolife group that is opposing them, and29100:21:00.680 --> 00:21:06.359they lump us all together. SoI I absolutely agree, and that's what29200:21:06.480 --> 00:21:10.640we told our team to do.Move away. Move away so that you29300:21:10.680 --> 00:21:14.279are clearly a distinct different group,and the women will hear the difference in29400:21:14.319 --> 00:21:18.720your tone, and that physical separationwill help them to know that you're the29500:21:18.720 --> 00:21:23.440ones offering UM, hope and helpand UM and this other group seems to29600:21:23.480 --> 00:21:30.240be very concerned about UM. Therewe could behavior UM and calling that out29700:21:32.160 --> 00:21:34.160so the women maybe, well,we still have a chance they might approach29800:21:34.240 --> 00:21:38.839us. But I want to makethe point also with Love Life in our29900:21:38.880 --> 00:21:44.279ministry, we we have team shirts. That's part of the reason for the30000:21:44.319 --> 00:21:48.640team shirts, and it's why itis so critical because this is going to30100:21:48.720 --> 00:21:53.599happen. It's going to happen onevery sidewalk if you all are identifiable as30200:21:53.640 --> 00:21:59.720a group and another group comes inthat isn't wearing the shirts. It just30300:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.359may makes it easier for the womenyou're trying to reach, to make the30400:22:03.480 --> 00:22:10.359distinction between the two groups that youreally are separate, separate, you have30500:22:10.480 --> 00:22:15.759UM at least a different way ofreaching the women to say, real quick30600:22:15.799 --> 00:22:21.960to talk about kind of the thedivision dynamic. When someone comes out there30700:22:21.960 --> 00:22:25.319on the sidewalk and you've been doingministry out there for a long time and30800:22:25.440 --> 00:22:30.079they're being divisive, that's on them, right, UM, But we want30900:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.200to be careful not to ourselves bedivisive, right even though we don't agree31000:22:33.240 --> 00:22:36.880with their methodology, even though it'sway over the top. We want to31100:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.240try not to be divisive as muchas it depends on us. And that's31200:22:40.279 --> 00:22:45.240what we've titled this UM this actualepisode Romans chapter twelve, verse eighteen.31300:22:45.960 --> 00:22:51.200Yeah, if it is possible,Romans twelve eighteen says, if it is31400:22:51.240 --> 00:22:55.359possible, as much as it dependson you, live peaceably with all men.31500:22:55.960 --> 00:22:57.799And so that's what we're encouraging youguys to do. And so one31600:22:57.799 --> 00:23:03.279of the ways that you can actuallybe divisive not knowing and not realizing it31700:23:03.400 --> 00:23:07.480just because you know it's it's apractical way to deal with it is,31800:23:07.920 --> 00:23:11.559as the women are walking in,you can call out and say, we're31900:23:11.559 --> 00:23:15.559not with them, We're not withthe people out here yelling not knowing that32000:23:15.640 --> 00:23:19.519actually that that's divisive actually, andso instead of doing that, you could32100:23:19.559 --> 00:23:22.559say something. And this is wherethe shirts come in. Hey, come32200:23:22.559 --> 00:23:26.759out and talk with someone in thecoral shirt. You know that's not as32300:23:26.759 --> 00:23:29.480divisive as Hey, we're not withthem. Don't talk to them, talk32400:23:29.519 --> 00:23:33.359to us. And so you know, it's it's kind of a practical.32500:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.480People wonder why why don't y'all havethe same shirts. What's so important about32600:23:37.519 --> 00:23:38.720wearing the shirts? We even talkedabout it in the training, wearing the32700:23:38.759 --> 00:23:44.839coral Hope is Here shirts. It'sit's to distinguish ourselves from other groups.32800:23:44.839 --> 00:23:47.480So we don't have to say whowe're not with. We can have we32900:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.240can very easily say who we arewith the people in the coral shirts.33000:23:49.240 --> 00:23:52.440Peace, come over and talk tothe folks in the coral shirts. So33100:23:52.599 --> 00:23:56.720I wanted to mention that, Yeah, um, and so as much as33200:23:56.759 --> 00:24:00.119it depends on you, as Iwas thinking about that great verse that you33300:24:00.200 --> 00:24:04.920brought up, but um, Iknow that I need to behave the way33400:24:04.960 --> 00:24:12.200that Scripture tells me to behave,And I have to trust that God is33500:24:12.240 --> 00:24:18.599going to iron out whatever needs tobe ironed out, and he knows that33600:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.440they're there. I have to keepremembering that He knows that that other group33700:24:22.559 --> 00:24:29.000is there. He could have hadthem have a um, a major detour,33800:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.079or a flat tire or whatever wherethey would not show up. And33900:24:33.119 --> 00:24:41.640I think sometimes we can learn anddevelop in ourselves, uh through some of34000:24:41.640 --> 00:24:48.440these sorts of obstacles that we face. Are we going to respond in the34100:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.680flesh? Are we going to respondwith anger? Are we going to respond34200:24:52.799 --> 00:24:57.319by creating division? Or are wegoing to do the best that we can34300:24:57.400 --> 00:25:03.720before God to spond in the waythat God would have us respond? And34400:25:03.720 --> 00:25:08.079and of course that that's what wedesire to do. Some of some of34500:25:08.119 --> 00:25:12.559the teams, when they face this, will have as our team did,34600:25:12.839 --> 00:25:18.400the use of amplified sound. Wedo have a microphone, and because of34700:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.480the way that the laws are setup, we had the use of that34800:25:22.559 --> 00:25:26.839microphone in this other group did not. And one of the questions that my34900:25:26.960 --> 00:25:32.680counselor asked me was is it okayfor me to go ahead and speak over35000:25:32.799 --> 00:25:37.160them? They were not stopping,they were not ceasing for a second from35100:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.279speaking with all this anger. Butwe knew we could be heard over them35200:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.960with the microphone, and she said, can I should I, and I35300:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.640I recommended that she should, andthat may or may not have been correct.35400:25:51.039 --> 00:25:55.559I don't know. There was asaved baby that day who came after35500:25:55.640 --> 00:25:59.400the other group left. Yeah,praise God for that. But I I35600:25:59.440 --> 00:26:03.960think if you are able not ina shouting match, if they if it35700:26:03.039 --> 00:26:07.400had just been the voices and ustrying to scream louder than them, no,35800:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.400I probably would have said, no, just move up the street,35900:26:10.440 --> 00:26:14.079try to stop cars before they evenget there. But since we did have36000:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.920that tool and we didn't have toyell, we could speak in a quiet36100:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.839voice but over the microphone, andwe could still be heard over the angry36200:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.839other group. I did recommend thatthat she do that. Yeah. Yeah,36300:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.400it's kind of strange. And Idon't know if you have this in36400:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.319the article, but one of theone of the fallouts, one of the36500:26:33.359 --> 00:26:40.799positive effects of this is that ourpro abortion opposition and seeing the differences,36600:26:40.839 --> 00:26:44.160and I've actually told them this allalong, I've said, you might not36700:26:44.240 --> 00:26:47.160like us being out here. ButI can promise you someone's going to be36800:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.279out here as long as there's killingbabies, you should be glad that it's36900:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.559us and not some other group.Yeah, And I think they got a37000:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.599little taste of that the other theydid. And I think they even saw37100:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.480that and communicated that to our teamthat was out there. It's like,37200:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.759you guys are a lot different thanthem, right. They were even making37300:27:03.799 --> 00:27:07.519they were even setting themselves up andeverything so that our team could call out37400:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.880more effectively, and they would theywould tell her, you go ahead,37500:27:11.880 --> 00:27:18.200you talk now, and so uhso it it did work in a funny37600:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.920way. In these pro abortion oppositionare people that we pray for and we37700:27:23.079 --> 00:27:27.400desire them to come to the Lord. And what they did see that day,37800:27:27.440 --> 00:27:33.200I think was the difference between thewrath maybe not of God, but37900:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.079but they saw wrath and anger.It was the indignation of man. It38000:27:37.119 --> 00:27:41.960was the Bible says the anger ofman does not produce the righteousness of God.38100:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.400And what they saw was the angerof man out there on display from38200:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.640those street screechers. And then theysaw the actual I mean, we should38300:27:48.640 --> 00:27:53.079be angry at the sin of abortion, and uh but it's an anger.38400:27:53.599 --> 00:27:57.319If it isn't anger at all,that's baptized in the love of God,38500:27:57.480 --> 00:28:00.480right, Yeah, And I thinkthat that what they saw. I think38600:28:00.480 --> 00:28:04.839that that's what they saw, isthey saw the love of Christ in action,38700:28:06.079 --> 00:28:10.759in the tone, in the offers, in the language in Um,38800:28:11.079 --> 00:28:15.720not the name calling. Nothing wedid. Nothing, our team did changed38900:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.160like they did what they always They'retrained to do what the Bible says we39000:28:19.160 --> 00:28:23.000should be doing. UM. Iwant to mention a scripture. And I39100:28:23.079 --> 00:28:27.119don't know how many times I've mentionedthis scripture in this podcast. UM,39200:28:27.160 --> 00:28:30.359but you can never mention the scripturetoo much. But I think it's an39300:28:30.359 --> 00:28:36.400applicable scripture. And again, Ihave had this this experience before. I've39400:28:36.400 --> 00:28:41.079had plenty of times where people showup and they just do things way over39500:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.839the top. It's in the flesh. It doesn't produce the righteousness of God.39600:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.319And when I've been able to talkwith them, I think this scripture39700:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.319has really helped because with these folks, these are the folks that you know,39800:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.839a lot of times carry around thebiggest King James Bible you can get39900:28:56.880 --> 00:28:59.279on the face of the planet,right, and they waved the thing around40000:28:59.319 --> 00:29:03.880like it's you know, it's it'stheir salvation whenever. Really, Jesus is40100:29:03.920 --> 00:29:07.319our salvation, right, And thatthe bigger the Bible you have doesn't doesn't40200:29:07.400 --> 00:29:11.680mean the more righteous you are.But some of these folks think that that's40300:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.680the case. And so I've reasonedwith them from the scriptures, because to40400:29:15.759 --> 00:29:18.720me, again, that's the foundationof what we do. It's the Bible.40500:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.839It's not my feelings. It's notwhat's effective, it's not what society40600:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.240says or anything. It's what doesthe scripture say. And so when I've40700:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.279been able to have a conversation withfolks like this, I opened up this40800:29:29.319 --> 00:29:34.319scripture and Second Timothy chapter two.This is Paul speaking with his understudy Timothy40900:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.240and Second Timothy chapter two, versetwo, and it says, and the41000:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.400servant of the Lord must not quarrel, but be gentle to all able to41100:29:41.519 --> 00:29:47.079teach, patient in humility, correctingthose who are in opposition. If perhaps41200:29:47.079 --> 00:29:49.599God will grant them repentance so thatthey may know the truth, and that41300:29:49.680 --> 00:29:53.920they may come to their senses andescape the snare of the devil, having41400:29:55.119 --> 00:29:59.400been taken captive by him to dohis will. And so I'm talking to41500:29:59.440 --> 00:30:02.039these people that are again are doingthings over the top there, you know,41600:30:02.359 --> 00:30:06.039screeching rather than preaching and just outthere in the flesh and helping them41700:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.200to understand the Bible says what you'redoing is actually not the way the servant41800:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.000the Lord conducts himself. All you'redoing is arguing. All you're out here41900:30:12.000 --> 00:30:18.079doing is gelling, hurling insults.You're doing exactly what this scripture says a42000:30:18.119 --> 00:30:22.440servant the Lord should not be doing. And so you need to correct that.42100:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.720And this is why we don't likeyou being out here is because you're42200:30:25.720 --> 00:30:30.440not you're not honoring Jesus in theway that you're conducting yourself. Now I42300:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.240might come a little harsher than that, or I might come a little softer42400:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.839than that, based on how therelationship is and based on if they're willing42500:30:36.839 --> 00:30:40.000to hear me or not. ButI have seen that be effective. And42600:30:40.039 --> 00:30:44.880actually the Lord helped me with thatscripture because it's pretty much a direct like42700:30:45.559 --> 00:30:48.319correlation with what we're doing. Thisis how the servant the Lord should conduct42800:30:48.319 --> 00:30:52.880themselves. And um so I thinkagain, looking at the scriptures and letting42900:30:52.880 --> 00:30:57.079the scripture be the standard is probablythe mode, well not probably definitely the43000:30:57.119 --> 00:31:02.839most important thing for us and hopefullyto influence people that are out there,43100:31:02.920 --> 00:31:07.079pro life people out there causing problems. Yeah. So, I don't know43200:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.839if there are any other things thatyou wanted to cover, but I think43300:31:10.880 --> 00:31:14.799we're pretty much at the end ofthis episode and ready to wrap it up.43400:31:14.799 --> 00:31:18.440Anything you want to say in closing, Um, the the only scripture43500:31:18.519 --> 00:31:22.039that that I wanted to pull outis from Second Chronicles, which I closed43600:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.799the article with because it's always sucha helpful scripture for me. Um.43700:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.680Nor do we know what to do, but our eyes are on you as43800:31:30.960 --> 00:31:36.279as the writer is speaking to God. When when the horde comes upon us,43900:31:36.599 --> 00:31:40.519when when there's opposition, we oftendon't know what to do, but44000:31:40.640 --> 00:31:44.440just keep your eyes on Jesus andbe sure that that He is your focus44100:31:44.559 --> 00:31:48.559and and not your flesh. Yeah, yeah, definitely in those times,44200:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.880those are times to be lifting upyour prayer to the Lord God. I'm44300:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.079surrounded. It seems like the prolife people are against me. It seems44400:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.400like the pro abortion people against me. The women going into the abortion clinic44500:31:59.400 --> 00:32:01.400are yelling at me. It's like, but the Bible says, if God44600:32:01.480 --> 00:32:04.960is for us, who can beagainst us and listen. If you guys,44700:32:05.039 --> 00:32:08.319heart is to obey God and todo things according to His word.44800:32:09.200 --> 00:32:13.000God is for you, so whocan be against you? Right, even44900:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.599if the world is against you,God is for you. So I just45000:32:15.640 --> 00:32:17.599want you guys to know, inthe midst of opposition, in the midst45100:32:17.640 --> 00:32:21.279of issues that come up out thereat the abortion center, this is a45200:32:21.319 --> 00:32:23.880battle. But God's fighting this battlewith you, and we appreciate what you45300:32:23.880 --> 00:32:27.720guys are doing. We would lovefor you to reach out to us if45400:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.920we can offer any encouragement. Youcan reach out to meet Daniel at love45500:32:30.960 --> 00:32:35.319life dot org and reach her Vickywith a y at love life dot org.45600:32:35.400 --> 00:32:37.160We'd love to hear from you,and also we'd love for you guys45700:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.319to leave us a review, sharethis podcast, and until next time.45800:32:40.559 --> 00:32:52.319God bless God, bless you.Give me out love for love, give45900:32:52.440 --> 00:33:06.519me our love for gratitude. I'mit will cost me my life. Nothing's46000:33:06.599 --> 00:33:17.200too precious. Since I met you, M