Sept. 10, 2020

Helping Pregnant Women Who Are Victims of Domestic Abuse

Helping Pregnant Women Who Are Victims of Domestic Abuse

When reaching abortion-minded women we often encounter women with very difficult circumstances. Domestic violence is one of the situations that many of these women are dealing with. In this episode, Vicky and Daniel talk about how to effectively reach...


When reaching abortion-minded women we often encounter women with very difficult circumstances. Domestic violence is one of the situations that many of these women are dealing with. In this episode, Vicky and Daniel talk about how to effectively reach these women and some of the things to watch out of when ministering to abortion-minded women.

www.sidewalks4life.com

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:06.440 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord, 2 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:10.910 I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. This 3 00:00:11.070 --> 00:00:14.630 episode we talk about how to help a mother who's in a domestic abuse situation 4 00:00:15.070 --> 00:00:18.469 get out of that circumstance. Join us as we look at this biblically and 5 00:00:18.589 --> 00:00:37.369 practically. Lord, I felt show passish touch your welcome to the Gospel Center 6 00:00:37.450 --> 00:00:41.210 pro life podcast. Appreciate you, guys, joining us and we're going to 7 00:00:41.289 --> 00:00:45.770 jump right into our subject today and it's a subject that we've just recently. 8 00:00:45.890 --> 00:00:49.130 It's not that we've recently faced it, but it's just we've recently honed in 9 00:00:49.250 --> 00:00:51.560 on this subject right, and it has to do, of course, with 10 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:55.759 sidewalk counseling. It has to do with what we call hard cases. So 11 00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:59.600 it's beyond dealing with a mom in you know, all of them. To 12 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:02.520 these mothers, of course our hard cases, but to us there's some like 13 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:06.269 next level situations that we deal with right, like the health of the mother 14 00:01:06.430 --> 00:01:10.909 is at risk, the baby has some kind of fetal abnormality, and then 15 00:01:11.030 --> 00:01:15.230 this situation, which is domestic abuse and domestic violence. It's another one of 16 00:01:15.269 --> 00:01:19.299 those hard cases. We do trainings here in Charlotte we train our sidewalk counselors 17 00:01:19.739 --> 00:01:23.340 and we sort of start with service level stuff, foundational stuff, and then 18 00:01:23.379 --> 00:01:26.299 we do a second training and that's what we're really focus on the hard cases 19 00:01:26.540 --> 00:01:30.340 and we really haven't focused on this particular hard case. But I think with 20 00:01:30.459 --> 00:01:34.569 some of the information that we've gotten now in some of the interactions that we 21 00:01:34.689 --> 00:01:38.689 had recently with MOMS coming to the abortion center, we understand we need to 22 00:01:38.810 --> 00:01:41.250 focus in on this. This is a this is a big issue. Some 23 00:01:41.370 --> 00:01:46.250 of the statistics you've dug up really do help us understand how big of an 24 00:01:46.290 --> 00:01:49.519 issue this really is right and so I want you to go ahead and jump 25 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.840 in with some of the statistics, some of the situations. Okay, but 26 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:57.000 first why are we covering this? You've dealt recently with some women that have 27 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.359 had this. Yeah, I've had three cases in the past few days of 28 00:02:00.469 --> 00:02:05.310 domestic violence where I knew it was domestic violence. They told me. I've 29 00:02:05.349 --> 00:02:07.750 probably had many, many cases in the past and never knew. It's a 30 00:02:07.870 --> 00:02:12.830 deep, dark secret, very difficult for the women to leave the situation. 31 00:02:13.189 --> 00:02:19.060 Fear is overwhelming and it the woman I talked to today said that the guy 32 00:02:19.379 --> 00:02:23.620 tried to shoot her. Well, so, I mean it's it's a very 33 00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:29.500 serious issue and we need to know how to deal with it because, I 34 00:02:29.620 --> 00:02:34.129 will be very honest, some of the strategies I've used in the past actually 35 00:02:34.210 --> 00:02:38.650 probably put those women in increased danger and I had no idea. And I'm 36 00:02:38.689 --> 00:02:42.530 sure I'm not alone. I'm sure that there are other people who have not 37 00:02:42.729 --> 00:02:47.520 really studied domestic violence, but they're, like me, trained in dealing with 38 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:55.199 abortion, determined women, but not with a really great understanding of the mindset 39 00:02:55.240 --> 00:03:00.229 and what's involved in an in domestic violence and in how to best up those 40 00:03:00.270 --> 00:03:06.830 women out of a domestic violent situation. Sure. So this was really valuable, 41 00:03:06.909 --> 00:03:12.110 I think, for me in learning, looking over the research and finding 42 00:03:12.150 --> 00:03:16.780 out some facts about domestic violence and then working through some strategies and that we 43 00:03:16.860 --> 00:03:22.020 could impart to other sidewalk cancers. Yeah, so we've done in the past. 44 00:03:23.099 --> 00:03:24.099 I believe we did a podcast about it, but I know we have 45 00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:30.289 an article out on the sidewalks for life website dealing with hardcases in the situation 46 00:03:30.490 --> 00:03:32.490 of rape, and you actually did a training video about that. That's on 47 00:03:32.530 --> 00:03:36.490 the sidewalks for life. So yes, we're also going to put an article 48 00:03:36.490 --> 00:03:39.370 about this out on the sidewalk for life website to help equip you who are 49 00:03:39.370 --> 00:03:43.319 out there on the sidewalk to deal with these hard cases. So hopefully, 50 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.479 as we dive into this podcast, you'll be able to get this information, 51 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:50.199 you'll be able to apply it out there on the sidewalk or maybe if you're 52 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:53.800 working in a pregnancy center. I'm sure in pregnancy centers I know they're encountering 53 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:55.990 these sort of situations. So how do we deal with these situations? What 54 00:03:57.069 --> 00:04:00.069 are some of the statistics that helps us to know the numbers in order to 55 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:01.789 know the magnitude of the problem so that we can understand this is a problem 56 00:04:01.830 --> 00:04:04.629 we need to address right. So you've written an article. We're going to 57 00:04:04.710 --> 00:04:08.550 throw it out on the sidewalks for life websites. You guys can access that. 58 00:04:08.629 --> 00:04:11.060 But stick with us in this podcast because there's going to be some important 59 00:04:11.099 --> 00:04:14.180 principles, some stuff that I've learned, some stuff that you've learned, thanky, 60 00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:15.860 yeah, and some stuff that hopefully we can teach you guys. Yeah, 61 00:04:16.139 --> 00:04:19.740 to show you the enormity of the problem. Some of the studies indicate 62 00:04:19.819 --> 00:04:25.730 that more than a third of women who aboard or in a domestic abuse situation. 63 00:04:26.089 --> 00:04:28.569 That's a pretty stackering number. It is. When you told me that 64 00:04:28.730 --> 00:04:34.209 statistic I was pretty amazed that this is a massive problem. Yeah, and 65 00:04:35.009 --> 00:04:39.879 I know that, even though it's not a situation that I've been cued in 66 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:43.120 on, like, probably more and more, as I'm paying attention to some 67 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.759 of the things that you're sharing, I'm going to recognize some of these markers 68 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.759 more and more right and I'm going to see it's like this problem going on 69 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:54.269 under the surface and when you scratch that surface you begin to see, Oh 70 00:04:54.430 --> 00:04:58.709 wow, that's right, and it's not just an academic understanding that Oh good, 71 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:01.230 now we know how many people, like the nineteen are here are domestic 72 00:05:01.269 --> 00:05:05.509 abuse, but it's it will change how we interact. It should based on, 73 00:05:05.670 --> 00:05:09.779 I think, based Apace time. Well, I discovered anyway, and 74 00:05:10.100 --> 00:05:14.500 what the research shows, that they're some things that that we can do that 75 00:05:14.579 --> 00:05:19.540 are very counterproductive to that woman's safety and to trying to help that relationship to 76 00:05:19.579 --> 00:05:26.569 become a healthy relationship. Yeah, and I think also these situations where we're 77 00:05:26.569 --> 00:05:31.649 talking about. You know, we did a podcast months and months and months 78 00:05:31.649 --> 00:05:36.120 ago about women that come to abortion clinics are not victims, right, and 79 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:41.240 that's true. They're not victims. That baby is the victim. But there 80 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:46.040 are situations in which women are victims of other circumstances. It's right. We 81 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:48.120 need to understand that. We need to meet them where they're at. Never 82 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:54.470 justifying abortion. Abortion is never the solution to domestic abuse, domestic violence, 83 00:05:55.069 --> 00:05:59.110 to sex trafficking. Yes, we'll do a podcast, hopefully not too long, 84 00:05:59.790 --> 00:06:03.110 a podcast about that because those situations, just like domestic abuse domestic violence 85 00:06:03.149 --> 00:06:06.540 situations, a lot of times the abuse are us as abortion as a coverup. 86 00:06:08.019 --> 00:06:12.339 Same thing with sex trafficking, right, the trafficker uses abortion as a 87 00:06:12.420 --> 00:06:15.899 cover up and that's been well documented. Ye, so we'll touch on that 88 00:06:15.060 --> 00:06:18.449 here. But the point of this is that if we are cued into these 89 00:06:18.490 --> 00:06:21.730 situations, their realities, there are women that are going into that abortion center 90 00:06:21.810 --> 00:06:27.970 that may not outwardly appear to be victims of domestic abuse and domestic violence. 91 00:06:28.569 --> 00:06:30.930 There are many that are. In the statistic that you're going to share kind 92 00:06:30.970 --> 00:06:34.680 of helps that or some of these statistics, and that one third statistic, 93 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:41.199 one third of women that are having abortions, yeah, are in these situations. 94 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:45.800 Is a staggering statistic. Yes, you from what the statistics tell us, 95 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:48.790 it's one third of every of all women will have an abortion right. 96 00:06:48.910 --> 00:06:51.910 So if you think about that, one third of one third. So I 97 00:06:51.990 --> 00:06:58.389 mean staggering number of people that are affected by domestic violence and domestic abuse and 98 00:06:58.550 --> 00:07:01.019 we need to understand that. These are some of these women were encountering out 99 00:07:01.019 --> 00:07:04.699 the abortion center are in these situations and we need to understand that. So 100 00:07:05.019 --> 00:07:11.540 hop into some more of what you get there. So okay, what we'll 101 00:07:11.579 --> 00:07:14.779 go right into some of these statistics. And all right, there's no doubt 102 00:07:14.779 --> 00:07:17.730 that the issue of abortion and domestic violence are linked. Yeah, you know, 103 00:07:17.850 --> 00:07:23.170 a third of the women are involved in domestic violence. So approximately five 104 00:07:23.410 --> 00:07:28.769 percent of US women have had an intimate partner who tried to force sexual activity 105 00:07:28.810 --> 00:07:34.079 that would result in an unwanted pregnancy on them in their lifetime. Estimates of 106 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:40.519 domestic violence and abortion patients range from twelve to thirty five percent, and that 107 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:48.110 includes sexual, psych psychological and physical abuse. The results that indicate a positive 108 00:07:48.149 --> 00:07:54.589 relationship between physical violence and the number of abortions that a woman has had. 109 00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:59.379 In other words, the the more abortions a single woman has had, the 110 00:07:59.579 --> 00:08:05.339 more likely and the increased incidence there is of domestic abuse, and we see 111 00:08:05.459 --> 00:08:09.740 that all the time out of the abortion center, that women have had multiple 112 00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:13.689 abortions. So it's actually rare to come across someone who's only had one. 113 00:08:13.689 --> 00:08:18.529 Yeah, honestly, so that, given what this research is saying, there's 114 00:08:18.569 --> 00:08:24.209 a pretty good likelihood you see a woman who's had eight abortions, she could 115 00:08:24.250 --> 00:08:26.959 be that's that's something to keep your eye open. This could be someone who 116 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:35.399 is a victim of domestic abuse. Women seeking an abortion are more likely, 117 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:39.720 up to three times more likely, to have experienced domestic abuse than women who 118 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.590 continue with their pregnancies. Okay, so just by the very fact that they're 119 00:08:43.629 --> 00:08:50.909 they're having an abortion, that tells you right away the likelihood of abuse is 120 00:08:50.149 --> 00:08:58.419 pretty high in in these women. Let's see here. This is interesting. 121 00:08:58.059 --> 00:09:01.419 Unlike pregnant women, who are going to be receiving Prenato Care, you know, 122 00:09:01.940 --> 00:09:07.179 twice a month, sometimes even more, with with a doctor, so 123 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:11.289 they're seeing a medical professional on a regular basis and so there's accountability. They 124 00:09:11.370 --> 00:09:16.769 have that opportunity to talk to the doctor and say hey, the doctor will 125 00:09:16.769 --> 00:09:20.690 pick up on clues. Yeah, and can maybe exposed sexual abuse, but 126 00:09:20.809 --> 00:09:24.679 in a woman who has an abortion, that's not true. Yeah, she 127 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:30.639 is not having that regular medical visit by someone who might recognize the signs, 128 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.039 and so the sexual abuse goes on and on and on. Yeah, and 129 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:37.799 that goes back to that. You know, these two things tied together, 130 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:43.389 just like sex trafficking and abortion. Domestic of abuse and domestic violence tied together 131 00:09:43.429 --> 00:09:48.669 with abortion in that the abusers are using abortion as a cover up. Is 132 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:54.500 that same dynamic? Abortions not a solution to a problem? Yeah, it's 133 00:09:54.019 --> 00:09:58.299 in addition to the current problem that's going on. What I found in the 134 00:09:58.460 --> 00:10:01.539 lady that I spoke with a couple of days ago, and this is true 135 00:10:01.580 --> 00:10:05.940 of many, many victims of domestic abuse, they are offering mirroring what they 136 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:11.610 saw growing up. Yeah, they're not only the men are becoming abusers because 137 00:10:11.649 --> 00:10:20.090 they saw their father abuse, but the women are seeking on some crazy psychological, 138 00:10:20.289 --> 00:10:26.600 I don't quite understand it, level, they're seeking people who are abusers. 139 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.240 That's one of those dynamics we're you're you're comforted almost by I don't even 140 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:35.080 know how else to say it, but it's what you're used to, it's 141 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:39.029 what you know and it's a sad reality. Now, in all of what 142 00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:43.029 we're talking about, we never leave God out of the equation. God can 143 00:10:43.110 --> 00:10:48.909 intervene and God will intervene if, if people surrender to him, even these 144 00:10:48.950 --> 00:10:52.059 abusers can ultimately get saved and come to the Lord and confess their sin and 145 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:58.740 all up to their to their crimes. So God is in these equations and 146 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.379 God, of course, in all of our conversations with a woman at an 147 00:11:01.419 --> 00:11:07.169 abortion center who's in a domestic abuse situation, we're bringing God into the equation. 148 00:11:07.529 --> 00:11:13.210 God is good. Your abuser is not a representative of the Lord. 149 00:11:13.289 --> 00:11:16.409 Your father, maybe her father, was abuse of also, because that can 150 00:11:16.450 --> 00:11:18.000 be it's like this, this crazy cycle. So kind. He's not a 151 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.159 representation of the Lord. The Lord is not like that, right. The 152 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:24.960 Lord Is Merciful and Gracious, and so we're always bringing the gracious truths of 153 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:28.639 God's Word to bear in these situations. And I will tell you, sometimes 154 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:35.269 that is difficult because they have known nothing else. They have only known abuse 155 00:11:35.350 --> 00:11:39.509 at the hands of those who were supposed to protect them. Yeah, and 156 00:11:39.990 --> 00:11:46.230 for that they're probably the hardest ones in my experience to counsel, because when 157 00:11:46.269 --> 00:11:48.980 you talk about the goodness of God, they will flat out say not in 158 00:11:50.059 --> 00:11:54.139 my life, I haven't seen it. Yeah, and so I don't say 159 00:11:54.179 --> 00:11:58.820 that to discourage us, but to say dig deep and and and figure out 160 00:11:58.139 --> 00:12:01.730 how you can respond in a biblical way to a statement like that, because 161 00:12:01.730 --> 00:12:07.610 it is not uncommon. Yeah, I hear it a lot. So this 162 00:12:07.769 --> 00:12:15.330 is a really important one. Elective pregnancy termination, abortion among women with sexual 163 00:12:15.330 --> 00:12:22.960 abuse was associated with sexual assault, lack of control over contraceptive choices and coercive 164 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:28.480 decision making. And that coercive decision making is really, really an important thing 165 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:35.230 to think about and dwell upon, because these women are being coerced not only 166 00:12:35.350 --> 00:12:39.669 in whether to a board or not, but in every choice in life. 167 00:12:39.830 --> 00:12:43.230 Yeah, to the point where they no longer are making choices, they are 168 00:12:43.230 --> 00:12:48.700 letting someone else make the choice for them. And I say that and and 169 00:12:50.019 --> 00:12:54.500 emphasize it because the last thing we want to do is to play into that. 170 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:58.500 We don't want to be seen as a coercive force. Yeah, and 171 00:12:58.570 --> 00:13:01.450 so I'm going to talk later on when we get into strategies, about how 172 00:13:01.570 --> 00:13:05.289 we can ensure that that we are not. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, 173 00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:09.649 we don't want to step into the role of the abuser ourselves. And be 174 00:13:09.929 --> 00:13:15.879 coercive and manipulative, because a lot of these abuse situations are, you know, 175 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.440 these these men are manipulators right, and they're doing as you mentioned before, 176 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.080 it's not just physical abuse. Some of these situations is not physical abuse 177 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:28.950 at all, but it's emotional right abuse, mental abuse, which can be 178 00:13:30.110 --> 00:13:33.149 sometimes even worse. Yeah, some that situte. Definitely so. And the 179 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:41.620 women who had not informed their partner about the abortion were three times more likely 180 00:13:41.659 --> 00:13:45.940 to be victims of abuse then women who did inform their partner. And again, 181 00:13:45.980 --> 00:13:50.179 that's a really important thing to know, because often times a woman will 182 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:52.299 drive into the abortion center and the man will come over and talk to us 183 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:56.450 and say, I had no idea this was an abortion center. Yeah, 184 00:13:56.610 --> 00:14:01.169 and we have always, at least I have usually felt like, oh, 185 00:14:01.250 --> 00:14:03.129 the poor guy, and well, you know I mean, I don't, 186 00:14:03.129 --> 00:14:07.649 yeah, I don't say what a creep that woman is, but I feel 187 00:14:07.889 --> 00:14:11.240 bad for the guy and I feel I feel harsher towards the woman, when 188 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.720 in fact that could be a tip off that that woman is in an emotionally 189 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:24.590 or physically abusive relationship. She sees the abortion as the only way to escape 190 00:14:24.110 --> 00:14:30.389 this, this terrible life, that that she doesn't know how to escape and 191 00:14:30.590 --> 00:14:33.509 she knows that if she has this child, not only is she now further 192 00:14:33.710 --> 00:14:41.179 tied to this man, but the statistics also show that abusers use the children 193 00:14:43.059 --> 00:14:46.899 to further control the woman, threatening the woman with, you know, the 194 00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:50.659 safety of the children or whatever, but they also abused the children right often. 195 00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:54.370 Yeah, I know when I encounter these situations as a man, maybe 196 00:14:54.450 --> 00:14:58.690 it's a little different. Definitely is a little different from me when I'm talking 197 00:14:58.730 --> 00:15:01.009 to another man and who comes over to me and tells me, you know, 198 00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:05.129 I don't want her to have the abortion. If it was up to 199 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:07.320 me, she wouldn't have the abortion. I like to actually dig a little 200 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:11.440 deeper in that. Yeah, because what I've discovered is a lot of times 201 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.600 those words are only really a fig leaf, a covering that he uses to 202 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.990 actually take the guilt of the abortion and what he's feeling, because he's feeling 203 00:15:22.029 --> 00:15:26.549 guilt, even though he might be a total dirt bag right, he's feeling 204 00:15:26.590 --> 00:15:28.990 guilty. He's taking that guilt and put an all off on her when in 205 00:15:30.110 --> 00:15:31.990 reality, if I dig a little deeper, I find it. Well, 206 00:15:33.070 --> 00:15:35.899 he drove her to the abortion clinic, right, he paid for the abortion. 207 00:15:35.419 --> 00:15:39.059 So He's trying to tell me and trying to make me believe that he 208 00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:43.179 doesn't want her to have the abortion, and yet he's the one who drove 209 00:15:43.220 --> 00:15:46.259 her here and paid for it. Okay, yeah, you're communicating something. 210 00:15:46.659 --> 00:15:50.570 These are mixed messages, buddy. Right, you need to own up to 211 00:15:50.649 --> 00:15:54.769 your part in this thing, and I think it is sort of that dynamic 212 00:15:54.889 --> 00:15:58.730 going on. There's just manipulation in this control so that now he's absolved of 213 00:15:58.809 --> 00:16:03.809 the guilt of the whole thing and then later on he can use his his 214 00:16:03.250 --> 00:16:07.639 manipulative, abusive power over her and Lord the abortion over her and use it 215 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.879 as more ammunition to be more abusive toward her. Right. So it's a 216 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.679 really vicious cycle and it's a really deceptive way and it's a horrible thing to 217 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:19.909 do to another human being. It is, and it's from what my research 218 00:16:21.350 --> 00:16:26.909 and then my subsequent conversation with a domestic violence program told me, was most 219 00:16:27.029 --> 00:16:37.139 women don't escape a domestic violence situation until really they have hit rock bottom, 220 00:16:37.179 --> 00:16:41.580 either their life is in danger they've been almost killed. That she said. 221 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:47.450 They will leave six or seven times before they will finally leave for good. 222 00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:53.009 From so it's a very very hard issue to to deal with. And when 223 00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:57.009 you say she said that, you're referring to a lady that reached out here 224 00:16:57.090 --> 00:17:02.440 locally because coming looking for resources and dealing with the three MOMS that you're dealing 225 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.000 with now right that have come to the abortion clinic and they're in involved in 226 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:08.480 a domestic abuse situation. Yeah, your and this is what we do. 227 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:12.039 We encounter a situation, we try to dig for resources, we try to 228 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:18.109 find anything that we can, resources organizations to plug these women into, because 229 00:17:18.109 --> 00:17:22.069 we're not the experts on these subjects. Were not the experts on domestic abuse 230 00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:25.789 and stuff like that. So you've dug for some local resources. So talk 231 00:17:25.829 --> 00:17:29.430 a little bit about what you found out and some of the principles that the 232 00:17:29.470 --> 00:17:32.539 lady you talked to shared. That can help us. They can help you 233 00:17:32.619 --> 00:17:36.460 guys who are listening, to be more effective and more careful and dealing with 234 00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:38.500 these domestic abuse situations. Right. Well, I'll give you a little bit 235 00:17:38.539 --> 00:17:41.660 of a case study because it will help the women that I encountered a couple 236 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:47.369 days ago, because it will help in understanding, as I was talking with 237 00:17:47.529 --> 00:17:52.930 the person from the our local press domestic violence resource. So the woman a 238 00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.809 couple of days now. Just do want to make make sure folks understand this 239 00:17:56.970 --> 00:18:00.400 is not an organization that's like part of our life network. This is a 240 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.759 secular organization anyway. So some of the principles you know. I don't say 241 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.119 take them with a grain of salt, but we need to process them through 242 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:11.039 the word of God. But these people have been involved in these situations more 243 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.910 often than we have and they've learned and there are some principles that I think 244 00:18:15.950 --> 00:18:18.750 we can glean from that. So that's just a little cave yet as we're 245 00:18:18.789 --> 00:18:21.789 talking about this guess, and that was the tension. As I was talking 246 00:18:21.910 --> 00:18:26.579 with her, she was very open that the woman has been remo she has 247 00:18:26.660 --> 00:18:30.660 felt a loss of control to such a degree in every area of her life 248 00:18:30.700 --> 00:18:36.740 that she no longer has taken control of anything. She is completely controlled by 249 00:18:36.859 --> 00:18:42.809 this abusive man, and the domestic violence person told me that one of the 250 00:18:42.930 --> 00:18:48.730 most important goals for them is to return control to the woman and she flat 251 00:18:48.849 --> 00:18:52.730 out told me we're not trained to deal with abortion. That's not what we're 252 00:18:52.769 --> 00:18:56.119 dealing with. We are trying. Our major focus is the safety of that 253 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:02.160 woman and restoring to her what she has lost. That sense of control, 254 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:06.519 and she was very honest. She said if that means that that woman is 255 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:12.509 going to take control and have an abortion, we are there to help her 256 00:19:14.230 --> 00:19:18.029 to regain control of her life. The safety of the baby is not our 257 00:19:18.150 --> 00:19:22.190 focus right. So, of course, to me that tells me all right, 258 00:19:22.309 --> 00:19:26.740 then there are, I don't know if I want to say dangers in 259 00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:32.339 referring them, sure, to a domestic finance program but there are things I'm 260 00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:37.539 going to want to be sure to impart to that woman right before I refer 261 00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:41.569 her, yeah, to that program and maybe we can talk about that a 262 00:19:41.650 --> 00:19:44.130 little bit later as we go into the stretch. Yeah, and maybe this 263 00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:47.250 is a point where I can just mentioned you guys who are listening. Maybe 264 00:19:47.289 --> 00:19:48.890 there is. We did a little bit of googling. Yeah, and we've 265 00:19:49.009 --> 00:19:53.599 looked for nationally some Christian organizations, because what we don't want to do is 266 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:59.480 we don't want to refer a woman to a domestic abuse organization that's going to 267 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.440 maybe try to convince her to have an abortion. I mean, I certainly 268 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.559 don't want to do that when they don't want to be careful to in saying 269 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:08.509 that, because the the woman I spoke with was very careful to say. 270 00:20:08.789 --> 00:20:12.630 It's not that we would convince them. Sure that's not their goal, but 271 00:20:12.789 --> 00:20:17.910 they do want to restore that loss of control and do in so doing, 272 00:20:18.349 --> 00:20:22.019 they may yet make a choice for abortion and they're not going to. It's 273 00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:26.980 not that they're supporting the choice for abortion, they're supporting the ability to take 274 00:20:27.140 --> 00:20:33.380 control of their choices and not have someone else controlling their choice right, and 275 00:20:33.500 --> 00:20:37.970 so they're taking, I guess, a neutral approach to abortion, which to 276 00:20:38.089 --> 00:20:42.369 me it's neutrality on the issue of abortion can be. Abortion is going to 277 00:20:42.369 --> 00:20:45.650 be destructive of that woman. It's not going to be helpful. So anyway, 278 00:20:45.650 --> 00:20:48.490 I mentioned that to say you guys who are listening, if you know 279 00:20:48.730 --> 00:20:55.240 of some national organizations that are solid Christian organizations that can deal with domestic abuse 280 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:59.640 and domestic violent situations, please shoot me over an email. D Parks, 281 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.240 that cities for lifecom, Vicky V cussy organ cities for Lifecom, and just 282 00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:07.509 let us know. We'd like to connect with those organizations. Really we like 283 00:21:07.670 --> 00:21:10.910 to have that because we like to make a list of resources to meet these 284 00:21:10.950 --> 00:21:15.990 needs and if I can put a mom on the phone with the organization that 285 00:21:15.109 --> 00:21:19.140 can help talk her through and walk her through the situation. That's a Christian 286 00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:22.220 organization. I'm going to feel a lot better than just kind of throwing her 287 00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:26.619 over to some secular organization. Absolutely, we are a Gospel Centered Ministry and 288 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:32.700 we absolutely would always prefer if we could connect the women with a Christian resource 289 00:21:32.859 --> 00:21:34.730 and when we can't and they need help, we do connect with seler. 290 00:21:34.769 --> 00:21:41.529 Yeah, absolutely, but this organization specifically provides emergency shelter at an undisclosed location. 291 00:21:41.970 --> 00:21:48.799 Okay, at but they're she said that they're they're housing requirements are they're 292 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.640 very stringent for the women who will meet the the requirements to go into that 293 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:57.519 program and it basically means that that woman is under imminent threat of thread of 294 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:03.390 death right or or severe physical violence, which actually the women I spoke with 295 00:22:03.509 --> 00:22:07.109 today was. Yeah, she had been shot at by her boyfriend. Well, 296 00:22:07.470 --> 00:22:15.190 so they also provide seven hotline counseling and then resources that are specifically tailored 297 00:22:15.269 --> 00:22:19.539 to help the woman. They give strategies so that if the woman will not 298 00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:25.059 leave the situation, which, as she's said and statistics show, is rare, 299 00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:27.660 the for the women to finally leave takes a long time. It's rare, 300 00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:33.369 but they know the strategies that help the woman to diffuse an explosive situation 301 00:22:33.809 --> 00:22:37.210 and to stay safe. Yeah, and I can. I'm not sure I 302 00:22:37.410 --> 00:22:41.569 know those strategies. I'm sure I don't. So I even asked her, 303 00:22:41.569 --> 00:22:44.130 well, what could we tell the women? And she said, to tell 304 00:22:44.170 --> 00:22:47.720 you the truth, the absolute first, most important thing you need to do 305 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:52.160 is get them the domestic violence twenty four hour hot line. She said the 306 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.119 people on that hot line are trained to deal with it. It is very 307 00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:03.150 complex, it's multilayered and you're not going to know in a ten minute or 308 00:23:03.190 --> 00:23:07.750 even an hour. Talk with me, what is what is the best thing 309 00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:11.230 to suggest to these women, other than connect with the hot line? Yeah, 310 00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:15.700 okay, so that was the first and most important thing, she said. 311 00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:19.980 Connect them with with the hotline. She said. A second thing that 312 00:23:21.220 --> 00:23:26.779 was really important was that the abuser has complete control over the woman's life. 313 00:23:26.410 --> 00:23:32.849 And if the abuser has control and is is still living with her or still 314 00:23:32.930 --> 00:23:37.049 in her life, which in many cases is the case, he will have 315 00:23:37.289 --> 00:23:41.400 access to her phone, he will read her text he will read her emails 316 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:49.319 and and he will monitor where she's going, who she seen, who she's 317 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:55.440 talking with. She said that is a given in a in the controlling atmosphere 318 00:23:55.599 --> 00:24:02.309 of a domestic violence situation, therefore, or giving your texting that woman after 319 00:24:02.390 --> 00:24:07.869 you've spoken with her could put her in more danger because if he perceives very 320 00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:15.980 important point, if the man perceives, the Abuser perceives any loss or lessening 321 00:24:15.500 --> 00:24:23.099 of his influence and control, he is more apt to become increasingly violent. 322 00:24:23.140 --> 00:24:29.410 Yeah, so what have I done? Every time I've sent a woman off 323 00:24:29.769 --> 00:24:32.930 with our list of resources and I'm going to sign her up for a mentorship 324 00:24:32.970 --> 00:24:36.529 program, I text her. I text you almost immediately, say how you 325 00:24:36.650 --> 00:24:40.599 do in and and then I'll text you off in that same night the next 326 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:45.119 morning. And when I spoke with the the expert, she said don't do 327 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:49.519 that. You, you are putting that woman in increased danger because he will 328 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:55.829 find those text and he will take it out on her. Yeah, so 329 00:24:56.750 --> 00:25:00.269 one of the things she said that they do is they have the woman, 330 00:25:02.109 --> 00:25:06.750 give the woman the phone numbers that she needs to contact, write them down, 331 00:25:07.579 --> 00:25:11.740 make sure she has them and tell her when you were in a safe 332 00:25:11.819 --> 00:25:17.140 place with a secure phone, you call me. Okay, and that's really 333 00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:21.180 hard for me. Yeah, because I know that if a woman has chosen 334 00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:26.529 life. Those first forty eight hours are critical in sticking with that choice for 335 00:25:26.690 --> 00:25:33.170 life. But this woman, the expert said, the woman's safety is really 336 00:25:33.250 --> 00:25:37.079 in jeopardy if you're texting and calling her. Yeah, so that was a 337 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:45.559 really important tip, that that she said returning control as much as possible to 338 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.240 the victim of domestic violence. So as you're talking with them, think about 339 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:53.109 that. How do I give back control to this woman? We don't want 340 00:25:53.109 --> 00:25:59.349 to give back control in terms of saying it's okay to go have an abortion, 341 00:25:59.990 --> 00:26:02.950 but I as I was thinking through strategies which I think will deal with 342 00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:08.539 later, there are some things we can do that still allow us to do 343 00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:14.380 what we do and give our message, God's message, but have the woman 344 00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:19.849 still feel that it is in her control, not ours. Yeah, safe 345 00:26:19.930 --> 00:26:25.289 and secure housing is very difficult and very limited. We know that already, 346 00:26:25.329 --> 00:26:30.849 right, just in just a typical situation, not a domestic abuse situation. 347 00:26:30.450 --> 00:26:37.200 But if the abuser, if the abused woman, tries to leave the abuser, 348 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:42.119 he will find her. Is basically the sad bottom line. Yeah, 349 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:48.549 and so the organization that I spoke with does not disclose their housing. It 350 00:26:48.789 --> 00:26:56.670 is it is undisclosed, secret housing that only the woman and her counselor through 351 00:26:56.710 --> 00:27:00.980 this organization, know about, so that the abuser is not tipped off where 352 00:27:02.059 --> 00:27:08.539 to find her. In most cases, it is very unwise to offer to 353 00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:15.579 drive the woman home or even to a safe place. If the abuser sees 354 00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:19.450 it, you have just increased her danger. Yeah, and I know we've 355 00:27:19.450 --> 00:27:27.049 driven women home many times because we know the man is really angry and we 356 00:27:27.250 --> 00:27:33.279 know the woman is afraid and we offer a ride home. And that is 357 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:38.319 not according to the expert. That is really foolish and dn't and even dangerous, 358 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:41.319 not only to the woman, probably does. This is a violent human 359 00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:48.950 being. Yeah, who sees now this woman is exposing him and he's losing 360 00:27:48.069 --> 00:27:55.950 his control over her. So again, something I had never known or thought 361 00:27:55.990 --> 00:28:02.460 about, but I will now. And also, I think throughout the nation, 362 00:28:02.619 --> 00:28:04.900 I know the sidewark counselors that I interact with. There's some of the 363 00:28:06.099 --> 00:28:10.339 finest people on Earth, the most giving, the most generous people. I 364 00:28:10.539 --> 00:28:15.329 know and I hear over and over and over again stories of driving women to 365 00:28:15.490 --> 00:28:21.769 save places, to even the counselor's home, or driving them home. And 366 00:28:22.089 --> 00:28:26.769 now knowing, okay, a third of the women you interact with at least 367 00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:33.640 probably are victims of domestic abuse. That is probably not a wise thing for 368 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:37.799 us to do. Yeah, not just for our safety but for the woman's 369 00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:45.589 safety. So thinking about how we interact with the man is very important to 370 00:28:47.990 --> 00:28:52.910 I. I've heard countless times and I've agreed with it. Step up, 371 00:28:52.150 --> 00:28:56.019 be a man. Yeah, you're a coward. I mean, I don't 372 00:28:56.019 --> 00:28:59.619 know if I we call them a coward, but kind of suggest that, 373 00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:03.980 you know, if not directly. So, think about it. You're facing 374 00:29:03.099 --> 00:29:10.730 a man who, being in control of that woman, is his. That's 375 00:29:11.009 --> 00:29:17.049 what he is feeding off of. And if, if there is an attack 376 00:29:17.490 --> 00:29:22.210 on him, imagine what that's doing to that mindset. Well, yeah, 377 00:29:22.009 --> 00:29:29.599 so we still have to do what we know God has called us to do 378 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.799 right, and that's, beyond a shadow of a doubt, bring God into 379 00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:41.390 the equation, share the Gospel. But now how do we do it with 380 00:29:41.750 --> 00:29:48.670 all this information? And at first I just sat home and thought, I 381 00:29:48.829 --> 00:29:52.380 have no idea. I felt I honestly the the my first response with this 382 00:29:52.539 --> 00:29:57.019 information was kind of to feel paralyzed. Yeah, that's somewhere I ended up, 383 00:29:59.019 --> 00:30:03.500 because God always got, always gives us great wisdom. Yeah, and 384 00:30:06.220 --> 00:30:11.410 you had started, or told me when we had started discussing this, about 385 00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:15.369 a biblical passage and I you know, honestly, I don't remember what it 386 00:30:15.609 --> 00:30:19.250 was. But if you come up with it, I remember thinking when you 387 00:30:19.329 --> 00:30:23.519 were talking about it it had to do with control and I remember thinking that's 388 00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:30.559 really a good passage to share with people in this situation. So if it 389 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:34.160 comes to you, okay, if it comes back to you mentioned because it 390 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:37.710 comes back to my mind, I will share it. It was good. 391 00:30:37.789 --> 00:30:41.549 But there are something about yeah, there are. You do think you remember? 392 00:30:41.630 --> 00:30:44.029 I'm trying to think of the passes that you're talking about in particular. 393 00:30:44.269 --> 00:30:48.630 Well, so, so here's where we are. then. What do you 394 00:30:48.670 --> 00:30:53.380 do with all this? What are some key strategies or ideas in how we 395 00:30:53.500 --> 00:31:03.859 deal with the women and the men now that we suspect a domestic abuse situation? 396 00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:06.250 So you want to hear what I came up with and I'm sure you'll 397 00:31:06.289 --> 00:31:08.849 have you'll have some other one. So may you probably have got them all 398 00:31:08.930 --> 00:31:11.690 cover. They but listen. Well, we'll see. Okay. First of 399 00:31:11.769 --> 00:31:18.440 all, just think about it. If you're an abuser, are you content, 400 00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:25.720 joyful, your heart filled with peace? No, you probably pretty pretty 401 00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:30.480 miserable, pretty miserable human being, and remember that. Remember that this man, 402 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:36.470 an abuser and the abused are people that are not healthy, right. 403 00:31:36.750 --> 00:31:42.910 They are not spiritually healthy, they're not emotionally healthy, and so know that, 404 00:31:44.710 --> 00:31:48.779 while it may be buried very deep in their psyche, they want out. 405 00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:55.700 No one wants to be an abuser. Many of them have lived abuse 406 00:31:56.140 --> 00:32:00.140 their whole life. This is all they know, an or I. I'm 407 00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:05.529 not going to discount that. There isn't evil, outright evil and demonic possession, 408 00:32:06.289 --> 00:32:09.650 but I think it helps to remember neither these people are in a place 409 00:32:09.650 --> 00:32:14.529 where they really want to be. Yeah, and what's The answer to that? 410 00:32:15.529 --> 00:32:19.279 That's bringing the Lord in his truth and to the equation, bringing a 411 00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:23.240 fact that God rescues and saves all who come to him. Yeah, yeah, 412 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:29.839 so I thought the first thing would be to state facts. Yeah, 413 00:32:30.190 --> 00:32:37.750 be very careful about name calling, especially well into both both to the abuser 414 00:32:37.950 --> 00:32:40.509 and to the abuse. The the abused has had enough name calling to last 415 00:32:40.630 --> 00:32:45.700 for a lifetime. And the abuser is, we already know, of violent, 416 00:32:45.819 --> 00:32:52.180 controlling man, very immature, very unhealthy, dealing with loss of control 417 00:32:52.420 --> 00:32:58.890 and if he's hearing what he feels is challenges to who he is, in 418 00:32:58.970 --> 00:33:01.970 his control, you're probably going to make the situation worse. So if I 419 00:33:02.009 --> 00:33:06.369 call him a scumbag or her bag, I think I did that earlier, 420 00:33:06.609 --> 00:33:09.250 okay, but I still believe that men that abuse women are scumbag. Yeah, 421 00:33:09.410 --> 00:33:13.440 but I probably wouldn't call him that to his face, certainly in that 422 00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:16.240 scenario. Right. So what's your motivation, though? Is Your desire that 423 00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:20.839 that he goes home and beat her up? Obviously now we're not. Yeah. 424 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:25.680 So what can we do that will be less likely to result in her 425 00:33:27.549 --> 00:33:30.630 being attacked? And sometimes I think that is going to mean that we're going 426 00:33:30.670 --> 00:33:34.990 to need to hold back on some of the stuff that we really feel, 427 00:33:35.029 --> 00:33:39.190 yeah, and believe in in how we deal with him. Yeah, because 428 00:33:39.190 --> 00:33:44.420 we want to make sure that, of course, we want to protect that 429 00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:47.900 baby, right, you know, because the scenario is at the abortion center, 430 00:33:49.539 --> 00:33:52.420 here's a man, here's a woman, it seems that maybe there's an 431 00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:55.210 abuse situation going on. We want to save that baby, we want to 432 00:33:55.250 --> 00:34:00.089 reach that woman and we care regardss of what other people say. We care 433 00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:04.170 about both that woman and that baby and we care about that man too. 434 00:34:04.329 --> 00:34:07.849 But as far as our primary objective. We want to want to say that 435 00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:10.639 baby, want to reach that mom and so I think, and you tell 436 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:15.559 me if I'm wrong, I'm going to focus my conversation and my speech toward 437 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.519 her. I'm going to be as gracious as possible, of course, if 438 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:22.039 I perceive that could be the situation, and I'm probably not going to say 439 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:25.510 which I might be inclined to say, but as in the conversation that we're 440 00:34:25.510 --> 00:34:30.230 having, I'm thinking I'm probably not going to say a if he's abusive, 441 00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:31.789 come over here, we can help you. I'm probably not going to call 442 00:34:31.829 --> 00:34:37.269 it out like that because it's probably not going to be helpful at all and 443 00:34:37.309 --> 00:34:40.820 it's probably going to make things worse. And I know I have caught that 444 00:34:40.940 --> 00:34:45.420 out before, or something similar to that. Maybe not that directly but similar, 445 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:50.500 and now I I agree with you. I would not call that out. 446 00:34:50.539 --> 00:34:54.730 So state facts, facts about the humanity of the baby, facts about 447 00:34:55.090 --> 00:35:01.090 useful resources, facts about Biblical truth of the sanctity of human life. And 448 00:35:01.250 --> 00:35:06.849 the goal is, if you state the facts and the truth of the Gospel, 449 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:08.920 but in a factual manner, this is what the Bible says, this 450 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:13.239 is what's true about the baby, this is what's true about the resources we 451 00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:17.159 can offer. You are giving the woman the ability, in the tools to 452 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:22.590 come to a conclusion on her own. First of all, you're not coercing 453 00:35:22.670 --> 00:35:23.989 her, you're just saying these are the facts. Yeah, and and, 454 00:35:24.269 --> 00:35:32.829 and you're giving the abuser and opportunity to hear some truth that he might not 455 00:35:32.989 --> 00:35:39.059 otherwise take in, such as the truth of God and God's clear desire for 456 00:35:39.219 --> 00:35:43.219 what a family is supposed to be. And I think that was the story 457 00:35:43.340 --> 00:35:45.260 that you told me that I can't remember. But about what a man is 458 00:35:45.420 --> 00:35:52.449 supposed to be and his yeah, well, that's efficians chapter five and it 459 00:35:52.730 --> 00:35:58.329 speaks of husband's love your wives, as Christ loves the church, and rather 460 00:35:58.610 --> 00:36:04.639 than Lording your power over her and abusing and manipulating her, you're supposed to 461 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:07.639 lay your life down for her. That's what we're called to do. We're 462 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:13.599 called rather than take advantage of women and children, were supposed to protect them. 463 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:17.239 And the example here in if Hesians chapter five is of Christ. What 464 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.710 did he do? He didn't abuse his church. He actually lays his life 465 00:36:21.789 --> 00:36:24.349 down for his church. That's the example. Love your wife is. Christ 466 00:36:24.510 --> 00:36:28.869 loves the church. This is, by the way, exactly this is what 467 00:36:29.110 --> 00:36:31.630 what you were saying earlier on that I thought this is perfect. Did the 468 00:36:31.829 --> 00:36:37.260 I think this chapter, these verses, they're not specifically targeting. Hey, 469 00:36:37.340 --> 00:36:42.340 you abuse her, control freak, you, you violent man. You're giving, 470 00:36:42.500 --> 00:36:46.059 right out of scripture, the truth of who Jesus was and what he 471 00:36:46.250 --> 00:36:50.650 commanded all men to be. Ye, right, yeah, absolutely, and 472 00:36:50.730 --> 00:36:53.449 that is the biblical truth. Right, and that is how, even though 473 00:36:53.650 --> 00:36:58.250 maybe society at large and other cultures and things like that, even people who 474 00:36:58.289 --> 00:37:04.079 claim to be Christian, have, over the years, made manhood and the 475 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:08.079 authority that God gives us as men a license to abuse and take advantage of 476 00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:13.960 and manipulate and Lord their power over their their wives or the women that you 477 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.150 know are supposedly under them. That's not the way the Bible views it. 478 00:37:17.670 --> 00:37:24.389 Leadership in a Biblical context is servant leadership, serving your wife, loving her, 479 00:37:24.469 --> 00:37:28.269 laying your life down for her. Now, I'm not going to go 480 00:37:28.550 --> 00:37:32.059 into a whole thing about leadership in the structure of family, but as far 481 00:37:32.139 --> 00:37:37.500 as God's words is God's Word is concerned, men are supposed to be leaders, 482 00:37:37.260 --> 00:37:42.579 but not tyrants and certainly not abusers, right, but those who lay 483 00:37:42.619 --> 00:37:45.210 their lives down for those who they're called to lead. Yeah, and I 484 00:37:45.409 --> 00:37:51.449 think that this would be a whole other podcast and not one necessarily that is 485 00:37:51.690 --> 00:37:59.719 our subject. Yeah, but the submission issue I can see being used easily, 486 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:07.119 twisted, yeah, in a twisted and corrupted manner to support almost not 487 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:12.440 a direct abuse, but some but feed into that abuse of mentality. Oh, 488 00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:16.590 absolutely. I mean abusers, people will use whatever means they can to 489 00:38:16.630 --> 00:38:21.670 manipulate people who use the word of God. They'll use whatever they know they 490 00:38:21.710 --> 00:38:24.269 can come up with to use. But God's word certainly is not in support 491 00:38:24.309 --> 00:38:28.820 of that sort of behavior. God's words against it. Again, husband's Love 492 00:38:28.940 --> 00:38:31.099 Your wives as Christ loves the church. Yeah, gave himself for her, 493 00:38:31.179 --> 00:38:35.699 so that that's a biblical reality. Yeah, and and the truth of scripture 494 00:38:35.860 --> 00:38:40.650 is that even to a man who is as despicable in many ways as as 495 00:38:40.809 --> 00:38:46.130 one who would abuse a woman or a child, even he can be reached 496 00:38:46.170 --> 00:38:50.130 by the power of scripture. Yeah, we and we can't forget that holy 497 00:38:50.210 --> 00:38:55.119 spirits work. That's right hearts and that's what's not in the secular domestic abuse 498 00:38:55.400 --> 00:39:00.559 programs. And so I'm not saying just hand these women over to these programs 499 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:05.400 and pray that all will be well. I think we have a at absolutely 500 00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:09.949 God ordained critical role to introduce the Gospel and I'm just suggesting maybe there's ways 501 00:39:09.989 --> 00:39:13.750 we could do it that might be a little bit different than we are right 502 00:39:13.869 --> 00:39:19.190 now in light of this information. solutely okay. The the second one we 503 00:39:19.269 --> 00:39:23.860 kind of touched on. Avoid accusatory or condemning language or named calling the counterproductive. 504 00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:29.659 Number three, if the woman has lied to the man about the facility 505 00:39:29.699 --> 00:39:34.820 being an abortion center, consider the possibility that she fears his anger and control 506 00:39:35.219 --> 00:39:38.530 and it's an abusive relationship, because it's going to alter how you speak to 507 00:39:38.650 --> 00:39:43.170 the two of them. Yeah, by the way, things may be different 508 00:39:43.449 --> 00:39:45.849 if the woman comes without the man or if the woman comes with the man. 509 00:39:45.929 --> 00:39:49.329 If she comes without the man, you're going to be able to really 510 00:39:49.409 --> 00:39:54.199 talk with her very specifically and and give her the important numbers and have her 511 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:55.960 call you. If the man is there, you're going to have to be 512 00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.440 a whole lot more careful. Sure, given the link between abortion and domestic 513 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:06.360 violence, I think it would be a great idea to add a direct question 514 00:40:06.679 --> 00:40:10.869 on any medical intake form. Are you the victim of physical abuse? Okay, 515 00:40:10.869 --> 00:40:15.670 so in particular you're talking about, you know if we're talking about mobile 516 00:40:15.710 --> 00:40:20.349 argnancy centers or like what we have here, the MOBILTERRA sound unit. Having 517 00:40:20.429 --> 00:40:23.619 that as a question. Yeah, it would be important and I think if 518 00:40:23.699 --> 00:40:28.980 we counsel women car side or on the sidewalk, it's to just be part 519 00:40:28.980 --> 00:40:32.539 of our regular questioning. Knowing a third of the women statistically or in domestic 520 00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:36.369 abuse, I think it should be one of the first things we ask if 521 00:40:36.409 --> 00:40:38.090 the man's not there, if the man is there, if you can get 522 00:40:38.130 --> 00:40:42.889 her alone and ask her privately. But are you in any danger? Does 523 00:40:43.010 --> 00:40:45.889 he hurt you? Yeah, is I think just be direct, be blunt 524 00:40:46.449 --> 00:40:52.320 and give them that opportunity to answer if they're ready at all to leave the 525 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:57.360 relationship. Hopefully they will answer that. Look for opportunities to provide her with 526 00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:00.559 the domestic abuse hotline, but you've you got to try and do without the 527 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:04.429 abuse are knowing. If we don't have it on our literature, it should 528 00:41:04.429 --> 00:41:08.550 be because if it's nestled in with a whole bunch of other resources, it's 529 00:41:08.550 --> 00:41:13.829 not going to red flag the abuser who might be looking at the resources. 530 00:41:13.989 --> 00:41:15.789 He might just be looking at, Oh look, there's all these resources, 531 00:41:16.309 --> 00:41:22.619 but if you include the domestic abuse hotline, she has hopefully access that an 532 00:41:22.659 --> 00:41:29.380 opportunity to call that okay. Empower both the man and the woman with a 533 00:41:29.500 --> 00:41:31.969 Godly vision of what a family can be. We talked about that a little 534 00:41:31.969 --> 00:41:37.369 bit from a biblical perspective, paying to positive picture of mutual submission, which 535 00:41:37.369 --> 00:41:39.969 is exactly what you talked about there, and I think that's one of the 536 00:41:40.289 --> 00:41:45.889 most important messages we can give them, because my heart hopes, my spirit 537 00:41:45.050 --> 00:41:49.519 hopes, that both of them are yearning, even though they don't know it, 538 00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:54.320 for a better, healthy relationship. Share the Gospel if they're showing any 539 00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:59.039 interest in listening to it, and share it to both of them if they're 540 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:02.110 willing to listen to it. We know it's the only hope for true transformation. 541 00:42:04.190 --> 00:42:07.750 Be sure the woman has your first name and number so she can contact 542 00:42:07.789 --> 00:42:13.349 you if you're the counselor would not share any private information like a last name 543 00:42:13.349 --> 00:42:16.940 or an address, especially when there's a violent person in the equation. And 544 00:42:17.179 --> 00:42:22.059 that's just something to mentioned real quick. It's something we're very intentional about here 545 00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:27.940 in Charlotte is when we give out literature, we always have a personal contact 546 00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:31.210 number there and we have, you know, list, as you mentioned earlier, 547 00:42:31.449 --> 00:42:37.130 of resources, local pregnancy centers, things like that. But a personal 548 00:42:37.210 --> 00:42:40.369 contact number is important because of situations like this. When they can text us, 549 00:42:40.369 --> 00:42:43.889 they can reach back out to us. Now we do, in most 550 00:42:43.889 --> 00:42:46.119 situations try to get their number as well so that we can have a way 551 00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:50.239 to follow up with them, especially if they've chosen life. Right, we're 552 00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:52.880 going to try to get their phone number. Yeah, and these situations, 553 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:54.840 though, you're kind of leaving that ball in their court. Yeah, I 554 00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:59.269 mean you can try to get their number, but make it clear as it's 555 00:42:59.269 --> 00:43:01.829 safe to call, you run and according to the domestic violence hotline, it 556 00:43:01.989 --> 00:43:06.230 is not. They may think it is, but she said it's not. 557 00:43:06.550 --> 00:43:09.110 So be careful with that. Okay, if the woman has expressed fear for 558 00:43:09.190 --> 00:43:13.539 her life, for her safety, there is a time to call the police. 559 00:43:13.539 --> 00:43:15.900 Yeah, if the man is there. I did have to do that 560 00:43:16.019 --> 00:43:21.340 once. The man was was forcing her, pulling her, as she screaming 561 00:43:21.380 --> 00:43:24.179 and crying, into the abortion center. I did call the police and she 562 00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:29.730 actually told the police everything was okay, and that's what sometimes happened. Right. 563 00:43:29.769 --> 00:43:32.889 Yeah, do not drive the woman home, do not take her to 564 00:43:34.090 --> 00:43:37.369 your home. That's downright dangerous, dangerous for you, dangerous for her. 565 00:43:37.730 --> 00:43:45.079 Don't give her your your address or your last name. Pray, if prayer 566 00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:49.719 and the need for God to intervene is so important it all. It's, 567 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:54.320 of course, always important, but it is really important in in this situation 568 00:43:54.559 --> 00:44:00.590 because there's so much that we can't do. Seek to diffuse anger, which 569 00:44:00.630 --> 00:44:02.750 is really important. It's easy to get in the flesh and get angry, 570 00:44:02.869 --> 00:44:07.590 especially when you see this kind of off right stuff going on, but it 571 00:44:07.789 --> 00:44:10.619 is not a good not health, not a good thing to be doing in 572 00:44:10.780 --> 00:44:16.099 this situations like gas on the fire. Exactly. If the woman is alone, 573 00:44:16.099 --> 00:44:20.139 be sure she has all the resources. If you're connecting her with a 574 00:44:20.219 --> 00:44:23.289 mentorship program whatever you're connecting with her with, make sure she has all of 575 00:44:23.409 --> 00:44:27.610 that before she leaves you, because you're not going to be calling her. 576 00:44:27.650 --> 00:44:30.130 You're going to count on her calling you. If you're connecting her with a 577 00:44:30.250 --> 00:44:36.570 mentor or there's people that are going to be helping her with any resource, 578 00:44:37.010 --> 00:44:42.639 be sure that she has their phone number and notify who all those resources. 579 00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:46.880 Don't call her. Don't call her until she has called you and given given 580 00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:52.869 you permission or times when it's safe. And finally, our model is Jesus. 581 00:44:52.909 --> 00:45:00.989 Jesus was calm, confident, prayerful, truthful, tactful, kind and 582 00:45:00.750 --> 00:45:05.429 direct, and so we are to mirror him and I think that is true 583 00:45:05.469 --> 00:45:09.219 and no matter what situation. Absolutely, but maybe more so in this than 584 00:45:09.780 --> 00:45:15.340 some of the others. Yeah, absolutely. So it's probably been pretty heavy. 585 00:45:15.380 --> 00:45:19.699 Yeah, heavy subject. It's a subject that we deal with a lot. 586 00:45:19.739 --> 00:45:22.929 Of these hard case subjects are difficult to deal with, and so we 587 00:45:23.130 --> 00:45:27.809 certainly don't want to have you guys left with like, Oh man, I 588 00:45:27.969 --> 00:45:30.730 hope I don't encounter this or if I do, I hope I can know 589 00:45:30.889 --> 00:45:37.880 what to do. God is our direction, right, he gives us direction. 590 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:42.880 Yeah, his Holy Spirit is in us, and so when you encounter 591 00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:47.320 situations like this, whatever the hard case situation might be, it's always important 592 00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:51.510 to lift it up to the Lord in prayer. God has far more wisdom 593 00:45:51.989 --> 00:45:55.429 than I do, and Vicki does. Then the domestic abuse hotline lady does. 594 00:45:57.469 --> 00:46:01.230 God knows. Yeah, and God can intervene and certainly God can save 595 00:46:01.349 --> 00:46:07.019 dirt bags. It'scumbags. He saved me. I was not an abusive man, 596 00:46:07.219 --> 00:46:10.059 but I'll had other sin issues that were going on and you know, 597 00:46:10.179 --> 00:46:15.460 God can save these women out of these situations. So we have to always 598 00:46:15.460 --> 00:46:17.260 bring God into the equation, bring the hope of the Gospel and the in 599 00:46:17.300 --> 00:46:22.769 the equation. So hope this is equiped some of you guys that are listening 600 00:46:22.050 --> 00:46:27.170 if you have suggestions for us. Maybe you've dealt with a situation like this. 601 00:46:27.329 --> 00:46:29.969 You've been involved of them, maybe sidewalk canceling for a long time or 602 00:46:30.050 --> 00:46:32.400 a pregnancy center for a long time, and you've dealt with situations like this 603 00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:37.000 and you can offer us some wisdom. We certainly don't feel like we have 604 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:40.599 it all together and we probably only really scratch the surface here in this podcast 605 00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:44.159 some of the things that can be touched on. So reach out to us. 606 00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:47.230 I shared my email earlier d parks at cities for lifecom. She is 607 00:46:47.309 --> 00:46:52.789 a vcs Oregat cities for lifecom. Reach out to us if you have subjects 608 00:46:52.829 --> 00:46:57.269 you'd like for us to cover on this podcast and maybe guests that you want 609 00:46:57.309 --> 00:46:59.949 us to interview. Bring on, we've done that in the past. We'd 610 00:46:59.989 --> 00:47:05.420 certainly be willing to do that. So reach out to us and we'll put 611 00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:09.179 this article out on sidewalks for lifecom. Sidewalks the number four lifecom. But 612 00:47:09.260 --> 00:47:22.409 until next time, God bless, give me out for love, give me 613 00:47:22.170 --> 00:47:30.039 our love, for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. 614 00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:37.159 Nothing's too precious. And some met you