Helping Pregnant Women Who Are Victims of Domestic Abuse

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:06.440I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord,200:00:06.919 --> 00:00:10.910I am yours. Welcome to theGospel Center pro life podcast. This300:00:11.070 --> 00:00:14.630episode we talk about how to helpa mother who's in a domestic abuse situation400:00:15.070 --> 00:00:18.469get out of that circumstance. Joinus as we look at this biblically and500:00:18.589 --> 00:00:37.369practically. Lord, I felt showpassish touch your welcome to the Gospel Center600:00:37.450 --> 00:00:41.210pro life podcast. Appreciate you,guys, joining us and we're going to700:00:41.289 --> 00:00:45.770jump right into our subject today andit's a subject that we've just recently.800:00:45.890 --> 00:00:49.130It's not that we've recently faced it, but it's just we've recently honed in900:00:49.250 --> 00:00:51.560on this subject right, and ithas to do, of course, with1000:00:51.719 --> 00:00:55.759sidewalk counseling. It has to dowith what we call hard cases. So1100:00:55.880 --> 00:00:59.600it's beyond dealing with a mom inyou know, all of them. To1200:00:59.679 --> 00:01:02.520these mothers, of course our hardcases, but to us there's some like1300:01:02.759 --> 00:01:06.269next level situations that we deal withright, like the health of the mother1400:01:06.430 --> 00:01:10.909is at risk, the baby hassome kind of fetal abnormality, and then1500:01:11.030 --> 00:01:15.230this situation, which is domestic abuseand domestic violence. It's another one of1600:01:15.269 --> 00:01:19.299those hard cases. We do trainingshere in Charlotte we train our sidewalk counselors1700:01:19.739 --> 00:01:23.340and we sort of start with servicelevel stuff, foundational stuff, and then1800:01:23.379 --> 00:01:26.299we do a second training and that'swhat we're really focus on the hard cases1900:01:26.540 --> 00:01:30.340and we really haven't focused on thisparticular hard case. But I think with2000:01:30.459 --> 00:01:34.569some of the information that we've gottennow in some of the interactions that we2100:01:34.689 --> 00:01:38.689had recently with MOMS coming to theabortion center, we understand we need to2200:01:38.810 --> 00:01:41.250focus in on this. This isa this is a big issue. Some2300:01:41.370 --> 00:01:46.250of the statistics you've dug up reallydo help us understand how big of an2400:01:46.290 --> 00:01:49.519issue this really is right and soI want you to go ahead and jump2500:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.840in with some of the statistics,some of the situations. Okay, but2600:01:53.000 --> 00:01:57.000first why are we covering this?You've dealt recently with some women that have2700:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.359had this. Yeah, I've hadthree cases in the past few days of2800:02:00.469 --> 00:02:05.310domestic violence where I knew it wasdomestic violence. They told me. I've2900:02:05.349 --> 00:02:07.750probably had many, many cases inthe past and never knew. It's a3000:02:07.870 --> 00:02:12.830deep, dark secret, very difficultfor the women to leave the situation.3100:02:13.189 --> 00:02:19.060Fear is overwhelming and it the womanI talked to today said that the guy3200:02:19.379 --> 00:02:23.620tried to shoot her. Well,so, I mean it's it's a very3300:02:23.659 --> 00:02:29.500serious issue and we need to knowhow to deal with it because, I3400:02:29.620 --> 00:02:34.129will be very honest, some ofthe strategies I've used in the past actually3500:02:34.210 --> 00:02:38.650probably put those women in increased dangerand I had no idea. And I'm3600:02:38.689 --> 00:02:42.530sure I'm not alone. I'm surethat there are other people who have not3700:02:42.729 --> 00:02:47.520really studied domestic violence, but they're, like me, trained in dealing with3800:02:47.840 --> 00:02:55.199abortion, determined women, but notwith a really great understanding of the mindset3900:02:55.240 --> 00:03:00.229and what's involved in an in domesticviolence and in how to best up those4000:03:00.270 --> 00:03:06.830women out of a domestic violent situation. Sure. So this was really valuable,4100:03:06.909 --> 00:03:12.110I think, for me in learning, looking over the research and finding4200:03:12.150 --> 00:03:16.780out some facts about domestic violence andthen working through some strategies and that we4300:03:16.860 --> 00:03:22.020could impart to other sidewalk cancers.Yeah, so we've done in the past.4400:03:23.099 --> 00:03:24.099I believe we did a podcast aboutit, but I know we have4500:03:24.180 --> 00:03:30.289an article out on the sidewalks forlife website dealing with hardcases in the situation4600:03:30.490 --> 00:03:32.490of rape, and you actually dida training video about that. That's on4700:03:32.530 --> 00:03:36.490the sidewalks for life. So yes, we're also going to put an article4800:03:36.490 --> 00:03:39.370about this out on the sidewalk forlife website to help equip you who are4900:03:39.370 --> 00:03:43.319out there on the sidewalk to dealwith these hard cases. So hopefully,5000:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.479as we dive into this podcast,you'll be able to get this information,5100:03:46.639 --> 00:03:50.199you'll be able to apply it outthere on the sidewalk or maybe if you're5200:03:50.199 --> 00:03:53.800working in a pregnancy center. I'msure in pregnancy centers I know they're encountering5300:03:53.919 --> 00:03:55.990these sort of situations. So howdo we deal with these situations? What5400:03:57.069 --> 00:04:00.069are some of the statistics that helpsus to know the numbers in order to5500:04:00.110 --> 00:04:01.789know the magnitude of the problem sothat we can understand this is a problem5600:04:01.830 --> 00:04:04.629we need to address right. Soyou've written an article. We're going to5700:04:04.710 --> 00:04:08.550throw it out on the sidewalks forlife websites. You guys can access that.5800:04:08.629 --> 00:04:11.060But stick with us in this podcastbecause there's going to be some important5900:04:11.099 --> 00:04:14.180principles, some stuff that I've learned, some stuff that you've learned, thanky,6000:04:14.300 --> 00:04:15.860yeah, and some stuff that hopefullywe can teach you guys. Yeah,6100:04:16.139 --> 00:04:19.740to show you the enormity of theproblem. Some of the studies indicate6200:04:19.819 --> 00:04:25.730that more than a third of womenwho aboard or in a domestic abuse situation.6300:04:26.089 --> 00:04:28.569That's a pretty stackering number. Itis. When you told me that6400:04:28.730 --> 00:04:34.209statistic I was pretty amazed that thisis a massive problem. Yeah, and6500:04:35.009 --> 00:04:39.879I know that, even though it'snot a situation that I've been cued in6600:04:40.079 --> 00:04:43.120on, like, probably more andmore, as I'm paying attention to some6700:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.759of the things that you're sharing,I'm going to recognize some of these markers6800:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.759more and more right and I'm goingto see it's like this problem going on6900:04:50.160 --> 00:04:54.269under the surface and when you scratchthat surface you begin to see, Oh7000:04:54.430 --> 00:04:58.709wow, that's right, and it'snot just an academic understanding that Oh good,7100:04:58.750 --> 00:05:01.230now we know how many people,like the nineteen are here are domestic7200:05:01.269 --> 00:05:05.509abuse, but it's it will changehow we interact. It should based on,7300:05:05.670 --> 00:05:09.779I think, based Apace time.Well, I discovered anyway, and7400:05:10.100 --> 00:05:14.500what the research shows, that they'resome things that that we can do that7500:05:14.579 --> 00:05:19.540are very counterproductive to that woman's safetyand to trying to help that relationship to7600:05:19.579 --> 00:05:26.569become a healthy relationship. Yeah,and I think also these situations where we're7700:05:26.569 --> 00:05:31.649talking about. You know, wedid a podcast months and months and months7800:05:31.649 --> 00:05:36.120ago about women that come to abortionclinics are not victims, right, and7900:05:36.399 --> 00:05:41.240that's true. They're not victims.That baby is the victim. But there8000:05:41.279 --> 00:05:46.040are situations in which women are victimsof other circumstances. It's right. We8100:05:46.199 --> 00:05:48.120need to understand that. We needto meet them where they're at. Never8200:05:48.319 --> 00:05:54.470justifying abortion. Abortion is never thesolution to domestic abuse, domestic violence,8300:05:55.069 --> 00:05:59.110to sex trafficking. Yes, we'lldo a podcast, hopefully not too long,8400:05:59.790 --> 00:06:03.110a podcast about that because those situations, just like domestic abuse domestic violence8500:06:03.149 --> 00:06:06.540situations, a lot of times theabuse are us as abortion as a coverup.8600:06:08.019 --> 00:06:12.339Same thing with sex trafficking, right, the trafficker uses abortion as a8700:06:12.420 --> 00:06:15.899cover up and that's been well documented. Ye, so we'll touch on that8800:06:15.060 --> 00:06:18.449here. But the point of thisis that if we are cued into these8900:06:18.490 --> 00:06:21.730situations, their realities, there arewomen that are going into that abortion center9000:06:21.810 --> 00:06:27.970that may not outwardly appear to bevictims of domestic abuse and domestic violence.9100:06:28.569 --> 00:06:30.930There are many that are. Inthe statistic that you're going to share kind9200:06:30.970 --> 00:06:34.680of helps that or some of thesestatistics, and that one third statistic,9300:06:34.839 --> 00:06:41.199one third of women that are havingabortions, yeah, are in these situations.9400:06:41.600 --> 00:06:45.800Is a staggering statistic. Yes,you from what the statistics tell us,9500:06:45.959 --> 00:06:48.790it's one third of every of allwomen will have an abortion right.9600:06:48.910 --> 00:06:51.910So if you think about that,one third of one third. So I9700:06:51.990 --> 00:06:58.389mean staggering number of people that areaffected by domestic violence and domestic abuse and9800:06:58.550 --> 00:07:01.019we need to understand that. Theseare some of these women were encountering out9900:07:01.019 --> 00:07:04.699the abortion center are in these situationsand we need to understand that. So10000:07:05.019 --> 00:07:11.540hop into some more of what youget there. So okay, what we'll10100:07:11.579 --> 00:07:14.779go right into some of these statistics. And all right, there's no doubt10200:07:14.779 --> 00:07:17.730that the issue of abortion and domesticviolence are linked. Yeah, you know,10300:07:17.850 --> 00:07:23.170a third of the women are involvedin domestic violence. So approximately five10400:07:23.410 --> 00:07:28.769percent of US women have had anintimate partner who tried to force sexual activity10500:07:28.810 --> 00:07:34.079that would result in an unwanted pregnancyon them in their lifetime. Estimates of10600:07:34.279 --> 00:07:40.519domestic violence and abortion patients range fromtwelve to thirty five percent, and that10700:07:40.639 --> 00:07:48.110includes sexual, psych psychological and physicalabuse. The results that indicate a positive10800:07:48.149 --> 00:07:54.589relationship between physical violence and the numberof abortions that a woman has had.10900:07:54.750 --> 00:07:59.379In other words, the the moreabortions a single woman has had, the11000:07:59.579 --> 00:08:05.339more likely and the increased incidence thereis of domestic abuse, and we see11100:08:05.459 --> 00:08:09.740that all the time out of theabortion center, that women have had multiple11200:08:09.779 --> 00:08:13.689abortions. So it's actually rare tocome across someone who's only had one.11300:08:13.689 --> 00:08:18.529Yeah, honestly, so that,given what this research is saying, there's11400:08:18.569 --> 00:08:24.209a pretty good likelihood you see awoman who's had eight abortions, she could11500:08:24.250 --> 00:08:26.959be that's that's something to keep youreye open. This could be someone who11600:08:28.040 --> 00:08:35.399is a victim of domestic abuse.Women seeking an abortion are more likely,11700:08:35.480 --> 00:08:39.720up to three times more likely,to have experienced domestic abuse than women who11800:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.590continue with their pregnancies. Okay,so just by the very fact that they're11900:08:43.629 --> 00:08:50.909they're having an abortion, that tellsyou right away the likelihood of abuse is12000:08:50.149 --> 00:08:58.419pretty high in in these women.Let's see here. This is interesting.12100:08:58.059 --> 00:09:01.419Unlike pregnant women, who are goingto be receiving Prenato Care, you know,12200:09:01.940 --> 00:09:07.179twice a month, sometimes even more, with with a doctor, so12300:09:07.259 --> 00:09:11.289they're seeing a medical professional on aregular basis and so there's accountability. They12400:09:11.370 --> 00:09:16.769have that opportunity to talk to thedoctor and say hey, the doctor will12500:09:16.769 --> 00:09:20.690pick up on clues. Yeah,and can maybe exposed sexual abuse, but12600:09:20.809 --> 00:09:24.679in a woman who has an abortion, that's not true. Yeah, she12700:09:24.840 --> 00:09:30.639is not having that regular medical visitby someone who might recognize the signs,12800:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.039and so the sexual abuse goes onand on and on. Yeah, and12900:09:35.080 --> 00:09:37.799that goes back to that. Youknow, these two things tied together,13000:09:37.000 --> 00:09:43.389just like sex trafficking and abortion.Domestic of abuse and domestic violence tied together13100:09:43.429 --> 00:09:48.669with abortion in that the abusers areusing abortion as a cover up. Is13200:09:48.750 --> 00:09:54.500that same dynamic? Abortions not asolution to a problem? Yeah, it's13300:09:54.019 --> 00:09:58.299in addition to the current problem that'sgoing on. What I found in the13400:09:58.460 --> 00:10:01.539lady that I spoke with a coupleof days ago, and this is true13500:10:01.580 --> 00:10:05.940of many, many victims of domesticabuse, they are offering mirroring what they13600:10:05.940 --> 00:10:11.610saw growing up. Yeah, they'renot only the men are becoming abusers because13700:10:11.649 --> 00:10:20.090they saw their father abuse, butthe women are seeking on some crazy psychological,13800:10:20.289 --> 00:10:26.600I don't quite understand it, level, they're seeking people who are abusers.13900:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.240That's one of those dynamics we're you'reyou're comforted almost by I don't even14000:10:31.240 --> 00:10:35.080know how else to say it,but it's what you're used to, it's14100:10:35.120 --> 00:10:39.029what you know and it's a sadreality. Now, in all of what14200:10:39.110 --> 00:10:43.029we're talking about, we never leaveGod out of the equation. God can14300:10:43.110 --> 00:10:48.909intervene and God will intervene if,if people surrender to him, even these14400:10:48.950 --> 00:10:52.059abusers can ultimately get saved and cometo the Lord and confess their sin and14500:10:52.220 --> 00:10:58.740all up to their to their crimes. So God is in these equations and14600:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.379God, of course, in allof our conversations with a woman at an14700:11:01.419 --> 00:11:07.169abortion center who's in a domestic abusesituation, we're bringing God into the equation.14800:11:07.529 --> 00:11:13.210God is good. Your abuser isnot a representative of the Lord.14900:11:13.289 --> 00:11:16.409Your father, maybe her father,was abuse of also, because that can15000:11:16.450 --> 00:11:18.000be it's like this, this crazycycle. So kind. He's not a15100:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.159representation of the Lord. The Lordis not like that, right. The15200:11:22.279 --> 00:11:24.960Lord Is Merciful and Gracious, andso we're always bringing the gracious truths of15300:11:26.039 --> 00:11:28.639God's Word to bear in these situations. And I will tell you, sometimes15400:11:28.720 --> 00:11:35.269that is difficult because they have knownnothing else. They have only known abuse15500:11:35.350 --> 00:11:39.509at the hands of those who weresupposed to protect them. Yeah, and15600:11:39.990 --> 00:11:46.230for that they're probably the hardest onesin my experience to counsel, because when15700:11:46.269 --> 00:11:48.980you talk about the goodness of God, they will flat out say not in15800:11:50.059 --> 00:11:54.139my life, I haven't seen it. Yeah, and so I don't say15900:11:54.179 --> 00:11:58.820that to discourage us, but tosay dig deep and and and figure out16000:11:58.139 --> 00:12:01.730how you can respond in a biblicalway to a statement like that, because16100:12:01.730 --> 00:12:07.610it is not uncommon. Yeah,I hear it a lot. So this16200:12:07.769 --> 00:12:15.330is a really important one. Electivepregnancy termination, abortion among women with sexual16300:12:15.330 --> 00:12:22.960abuse was associated with sexual assault,lack of control over contraceptive choices and coercive16400:12:22.080 --> 00:12:28.480decision making. And that coercive decisionmaking is really, really an important thing16500:12:28.679 --> 00:12:35.230to think about and dwell upon,because these women are being coerced not only16600:12:35.350 --> 00:12:39.669in whether to a board or not, but in every choice in life.16700:12:39.830 --> 00:12:43.230Yeah, to the point where theyno longer are making choices, they are16800:12:43.230 --> 00:12:48.700letting someone else make the choice forthem. And I say that and and16900:12:50.019 --> 00:12:54.500emphasize it because the last thing wewant to do is to play into that.17000:12:54.940 --> 00:12:58.500We don't want to be seen asa coercive force. Yeah, and17100:12:58.570 --> 00:13:01.450so I'm going to talk later onwhen we get into strategies, about how17200:13:01.570 --> 00:13:05.289we can ensure that that we arenot. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,17300:13:05.289 --> 00:13:09.649we don't want to step into therole of the abuser ourselves. And be17400:13:09.929 --> 00:13:15.879coercive and manipulative, because a lotof these abuse situations are, you know,17500:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.440these these men are manipulators right,and they're doing as you mentioned before,17600:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.080it's not just physical abuse. Someof these situations is not physical abuse17700:13:24.120 --> 00:13:28.950at all, but it's emotional rightabuse, mental abuse, which can be17800:13:30.110 --> 00:13:33.149sometimes even worse. Yeah, somethat situte. Definitely so. And the17900:13:33.269 --> 00:13:41.620women who had not informed their partnerabout the abortion were three times more likely18000:13:41.659 --> 00:13:45.940to be victims of abuse then womenwho did inform their partner. And again,18100:13:45.980 --> 00:13:50.179that's a really important thing to know, because often times a woman will18200:13:50.179 --> 00:13:52.299drive into the abortion center and theman will come over and talk to us18300:13:52.340 --> 00:13:56.450and say, I had no ideathis was an abortion center. Yeah,18400:13:56.610 --> 00:14:01.169and we have always, at leastI have usually felt like, oh,18500:14:01.250 --> 00:14:03.129the poor guy, and well,you know I mean, I don't,18600:14:03.129 --> 00:14:07.649yeah, I don't say what acreep that woman is, but I feel18700:14:07.889 --> 00:14:11.240bad for the guy and I feelI feel harsher towards the woman, when18800:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.720in fact that could be a tipoff that that woman is in an emotionally18900:14:16.840 --> 00:14:24.590or physically abusive relationship. She seesthe abortion as the only way to escape19000:14:24.110 --> 00:14:30.389this, this terrible life, thatthat she doesn't know how to escape and19100:14:30.590 --> 00:14:33.509she knows that if she has thischild, not only is she now further19200:14:33.710 --> 00:14:41.179tied to this man, but thestatistics also show that abusers use the children19300:14:43.059 --> 00:14:46.899to further control the woman, threateningthe woman with, you know, the19400:14:46.980 --> 00:14:50.659safety of the children or whatever,but they also abused the children right often.19500:14:50.779 --> 00:14:54.370Yeah, I know when I encounterthese situations as a man, maybe19600:14:54.450 --> 00:14:58.690it's a little different. Definitely isa little different from me when I'm talking19700:14:58.730 --> 00:15:01.009to another man and who comes overto me and tells me, you know,19800:15:01.090 --> 00:15:05.129I don't want her to have theabortion. If it was up to19900:15:05.210 --> 00:15:07.320me, she wouldn't have the abortion. I like to actually dig a little20000:15:07.320 --> 00:15:11.440deeper in that. Yeah, becausewhat I've discovered is a lot of times20100:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.600those words are only really a figleaf, a covering that he uses to20200:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.990actually take the guilt of the abortionand what he's feeling, because he's feeling20300:15:22.029 --> 00:15:26.549guilt, even though he might bea total dirt bag right, he's feeling20400:15:26.590 --> 00:15:28.990guilty. He's taking that guilt andput an all off on her when in20500:15:30.110 --> 00:15:31.990reality, if I dig a littledeeper, I find it. Well,20600:15:33.070 --> 00:15:35.899he drove her to the abortion clinic, right, he paid for the abortion.20700:15:35.419 --> 00:15:39.059So He's trying to tell me andtrying to make me believe that he20800:15:39.220 --> 00:15:43.179doesn't want her to have the abortion, and yet he's the one who drove20900:15:43.220 --> 00:15:46.259her here and paid for it.Okay, yeah, you're communicating something.21000:15:46.659 --> 00:15:50.570These are mixed messages, buddy.Right, you need to own up to21100:15:50.649 --> 00:15:54.769your part in this thing, andI think it is sort of that dynamic21200:15:54.889 --> 00:15:58.730going on. There's just manipulation inthis control so that now he's absolved of21300:15:58.809 --> 00:16:03.809the guilt of the whole thing andthen later on he can use his his21400:16:03.250 --> 00:16:07.639manipulative, abusive power over her andLord the abortion over her and use it21500:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.879as more ammunition to be more abusivetoward her. Right. So it's a21600:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.679really vicious cycle and it's a reallydeceptive way and it's a horrible thing to21700:16:15.720 --> 00:16:19.909do to another human being. Itis, and it's from what my research21800:16:21.350 --> 00:16:26.909and then my subsequent conversation with adomestic violence program told me, was most21900:16:27.029 --> 00:16:37.139women don't escape a domestic violence situationuntil really they have hit rock bottom,22000:16:37.179 --> 00:16:41.580either their life is in danger they'vebeen almost killed. That she said.22100:16:41.580 --> 00:16:47.450They will leave six or seven timesbefore they will finally leave for good.22200:16:48.370 --> 00:16:53.009From so it's a very very hardissue to to deal with. And when22300:16:53.009 --> 00:16:57.009you say she said that, you'rereferring to a lady that reached out here22400:16:57.090 --> 00:17:02.440locally because coming looking for resources anddealing with the three MOMS that you're dealing22500:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.000with now right that have come tothe abortion clinic and they're in involved in22600:17:06.200 --> 00:17:08.480a domestic abuse situation. Yeah,your and this is what we do.22700:17:08.680 --> 00:17:12.039We encounter a situation, we tryto dig for resources, we try to22800:17:12.079 --> 00:17:18.109find anything that we can, resourcesorganizations to plug these women into, because22900:17:18.109 --> 00:17:22.069we're not the experts on these subjects. Were not the experts on domestic abuse23000:17:22.109 --> 00:17:25.789and stuff like that. So you'vedug for some local resources. So talk23100:17:25.829 --> 00:17:29.430a little bit about what you foundout and some of the principles that the23200:17:29.470 --> 00:17:32.539lady you talked to shared. Thatcan help us. They can help you23300:17:32.619 --> 00:17:36.460guys who are listening, to bemore effective and more careful and dealing with23400:17:36.500 --> 00:17:38.500these domestic abuse situations. Right.Well, I'll give you a little bit23500:17:38.539 --> 00:17:41.660of a case study because it willhelp the women that I encountered a couple23600:17:41.700 --> 00:17:47.369days ago, because it will helpin understanding, as I was talking with23700:17:47.529 --> 00:17:52.930the person from the our local pressdomestic violence resource. So the woman a23800:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.809couple of days now. Just dowant to make make sure folks understand this23900:17:56.970 --> 00:18:00.400is not an organization that's like partof our life network. This is a24000:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.759secular organization anyway. So some ofthe principles you know. I don't say24100:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.119take them with a grain of salt, but we need to process them through24200:18:07.160 --> 00:18:11.039the word of God. But thesepeople have been involved in these situations more24300:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.910often than we have and they've learnedand there are some principles that I think24400:18:15.950 --> 00:18:18.750we can glean from that. Sothat's just a little cave yet as we're24500:18:18.789 --> 00:18:21.789talking about this guess, and thatwas the tension. As I was talking24600:18:21.910 --> 00:18:26.579with her, she was very openthat the woman has been remo she has24700:18:26.660 --> 00:18:30.660felt a loss of control to sucha degree in every area of her life24800:18:30.700 --> 00:18:36.740that she no longer has taken controlof anything. She is completely controlled by24900:18:36.859 --> 00:18:42.809this abusive man, and the domesticviolence person told me that one of the25000:18:42.930 --> 00:18:48.730most important goals for them is toreturn control to the woman and she flat25100:18:48.849 --> 00:18:52.730out told me we're not trained todeal with abortion. That's not what we're25200:18:52.769 --> 00:18:56.119dealing with. We are trying.Our major focus is the safety of that25300:18:56.279 --> 00:19:02.160woman and restoring to her what shehas lost. That sense of control,25400:19:02.680 --> 00:19:06.519and she was very honest. Shesaid if that means that that woman is25500:19:06.640 --> 00:19:12.509going to take control and have anabortion, we are there to help her25600:19:14.230 --> 00:19:18.029to regain control of her life.The safety of the baby is not our25700:19:18.150 --> 00:19:22.190focus right. So, of course, to me that tells me all right,25800:19:22.309 --> 00:19:26.740then there are, I don't knowif I want to say dangers in25900:19:26.859 --> 00:19:32.339referring them, sure, to adomestic finance program but there are things I'm26000:19:32.339 --> 00:19:37.539going to want to be sure toimpart to that woman right before I refer26100:19:37.740 --> 00:19:41.569her, yeah, to that programand maybe we can talk about that a26200:19:41.650 --> 00:19:44.130little bit later as we go intothe stretch. Yeah, and maybe this26300:19:44.250 --> 00:19:47.250is a point where I can justmentioned you guys who are listening. Maybe26400:19:47.289 --> 00:19:48.890there is. We did a littlebit of googling. Yeah, and we've26500:19:49.009 --> 00:19:53.599looked for nationally some Christian organizations,because what we don't want to do is26600:19:53.720 --> 00:19:59.480we don't want to refer a womanto a domestic abuse organization that's going to26700:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.440maybe try to convince her to havean abortion. I mean, I certainly26800:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.559don't want to do that when theydon't want to be careful to in saying26900:20:06.599 --> 00:20:08.509that, because the the woman Ispoke with was very careful to say.27000:20:08.789 --> 00:20:12.630It's not that we would convince them. Sure that's not their goal, but27100:20:12.789 --> 00:20:17.910they do want to restore that lossof control and do in so doing,27200:20:18.349 --> 00:20:22.019they may yet make a choice forabortion and they're not going to. It's27300:20:22.059 --> 00:20:26.980not that they're supporting the choice forabortion, they're supporting the ability to take27400:20:27.140 --> 00:20:33.380control of their choices and not havesomeone else controlling their choice right, and27500:20:33.500 --> 00:20:37.970so they're taking, I guess,a neutral approach to abortion, which to27600:20:38.089 --> 00:20:42.369me it's neutrality on the issue ofabortion can be. Abortion is going to27700:20:42.369 --> 00:20:45.650be destructive of that woman. It'snot going to be helpful. So anyway,27800:20:45.650 --> 00:20:48.490I mentioned that to say you guyswho are listening, if you know27900:20:48.730 --> 00:20:55.240of some national organizations that are solidChristian organizations that can deal with domestic abuse28000:20:55.319 --> 00:20:59.640and domestic violent situations, please shootme over an email. D Parks,28100:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.240that cities for lifecom, Vicky Vcussy organ cities for Lifecom, and just28200:21:03.390 --> 00:21:07.509let us know. We'd like toconnect with those organizations. Really we like28300:21:07.670 --> 00:21:10.910to have that because we like tomake a list of resources to meet these28400:21:10.950 --> 00:21:15.990needs and if I can put amom on the phone with the organization that28500:21:15.109 --> 00:21:19.140can help talk her through and walkher through the situation. That's a Christian28600:21:19.140 --> 00:21:22.220organization. I'm going to feel alot better than just kind of throwing her28700:21:22.259 --> 00:21:26.619over to some secular organization. Absolutely, we are a Gospel Centered Ministry and28800:21:26.700 --> 00:21:32.700we absolutely would always prefer if wecould connect the women with a Christian resource28900:21:32.859 --> 00:21:34.730and when we can't and they needhelp, we do connect with seler.29000:21:34.769 --> 00:21:41.529Yeah, absolutely, but this organizationspecifically provides emergency shelter at an undisclosed location.29100:21:41.970 --> 00:21:48.799Okay, at but they're she saidthat they're they're housing requirements are they're29200:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.640very stringent for the women who willmeet the the requirements to go into that29300:21:52.720 --> 00:21:57.519program and it basically means that thatwoman is under imminent threat of thread of29400:21:57.599 --> 00:22:03.390death right or or severe physical violence, which actually the women I spoke with29500:22:03.509 --> 00:22:07.109today was. Yeah, she hadbeen shot at by her boyfriend. Well,29600:22:07.470 --> 00:22:15.190so they also provide seven hotline counselingand then resources that are specifically tailored29700:22:15.269 --> 00:22:19.539to help the woman. They givestrategies so that if the woman will not29800:22:19.700 --> 00:22:25.059leave the situation, which, asshe's said and statistics show, is rare,29900:22:25.500 --> 00:22:27.660the for the women to finally leavetakes a long time. It's rare,30000:22:29.140 --> 00:22:33.369but they know the strategies that helpthe woman to diffuse an explosive situation30100:22:33.809 --> 00:22:37.210and to stay safe. Yeah,and I can. I'm not sure I30200:22:37.410 --> 00:22:41.569know those strategies. I'm sure Idon't. So I even asked her,30300:22:41.569 --> 00:22:44.130well, what could we tell thewomen? And she said, to tell30400:22:44.170 --> 00:22:47.720you the truth, the absolute first, most important thing you need to do30500:22:48.319 --> 00:22:52.160is get them the domestic violence twentyfour hour hot line. She said the30600:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.119people on that hot line are trainedto deal with it. It is very30700:22:56.279 --> 00:23:03.150complex, it's multilayered and you're notgoing to know in a ten minute or30800:23:03.190 --> 00:23:07.750even an hour. Talk with me, what is what is the best thing30900:23:07.869 --> 00:23:11.230to suggest to these women, otherthan connect with the hot line? Yeah,31000:23:11.390 --> 00:23:15.700okay, so that was the firstand most important thing, she said.31100:23:15.740 --> 00:23:19.980Connect them with with the hotline.She said. A second thing that31200:23:21.220 --> 00:23:26.779was really important was that the abuserhas complete control over the woman's life.31300:23:26.410 --> 00:23:32.849And if the abuser has control andis is still living with her or still31400:23:32.930 --> 00:23:37.049in her life, which in manycases is the case, he will have31500:23:37.289 --> 00:23:41.400access to her phone, he willread her text he will read her emails31600:23:41.880 --> 00:23:49.319and and he will monitor where she'sgoing, who she seen, who she's31700:23:49.359 --> 00:23:55.440talking with. She said that isa given in a in the controlling atmosphere31800:23:55.599 --> 00:24:02.309of a domestic violence situation, therefore, or giving your texting that woman after31900:24:02.390 --> 00:24:07.869you've spoken with her could put herin more danger because if he perceives very32000:24:07.950 --> 00:24:15.980important point, if the man perceives, the Abuser perceives any loss or lessening32100:24:15.500 --> 00:24:23.099of his influence and control, heis more apt to become increasingly violent.32200:24:23.140 --> 00:24:29.410Yeah, so what have I done? Every time I've sent a woman off32300:24:29.769 --> 00:24:32.930with our list of resources and I'mgoing to sign her up for a mentorship32400:24:32.970 --> 00:24:36.529program, I text her. Itext you almost immediately, say how you32500:24:36.650 --> 00:24:40.599do in and and then I'll textyou off in that same night the next32600:24:40.680 --> 00:24:45.119morning. And when I spoke withthe the expert, she said don't do32700:24:45.319 --> 00:24:49.519that. You, you are puttingthat woman in increased danger because he will32800:24:49.839 --> 00:24:55.829find those text and he will takeit out on her. Yeah, so32900:24:56.750 --> 00:25:00.269one of the things she said thatthey do is they have the woman,33000:25:02.109 --> 00:25:06.750give the woman the phone numbers thatshe needs to contact, write them down,33100:25:07.579 --> 00:25:11.740make sure she has them and tellher when you were in a safe33200:25:11.819 --> 00:25:17.140place with a secure phone, youcall me. Okay, and that's really33300:25:17.339 --> 00:25:21.180hard for me. Yeah, becauseI know that if a woman has chosen33400:25:21.299 --> 00:25:26.529life. Those first forty eight hoursare critical in sticking with that choice for33500:25:26.690 --> 00:25:33.170life. But this woman, theexpert said, the woman's safety is really33600:25:33.250 --> 00:25:37.079in jeopardy if you're texting and callingher. Yeah, so that was a33700:25:37.200 --> 00:25:45.559really important tip, that that shesaid returning control as much as possible to33800:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.240the victim of domestic violence. Soas you're talking with them, think about33900:25:48.240 --> 00:25:53.109that. How do I give backcontrol to this woman? We don't want34000:25:53.109 --> 00:25:59.349to give back control in terms ofsaying it's okay to go have an abortion,34100:25:59.990 --> 00:26:02.950but I as I was thinking throughstrategies which I think will deal with34200:26:03.380 --> 00:26:08.539later, there are some things wecan do that still allow us to do34300:26:08.700 --> 00:26:14.380what we do and give our message, God's message, but have the woman34400:26:14.500 --> 00:26:19.849still feel that it is in hercontrol, not ours. Yeah, safe34500:26:19.930 --> 00:26:25.289and secure housing is very difficult andvery limited. We know that already,34600:26:25.329 --> 00:26:30.849right, just in just a typicalsituation, not a domestic abuse situation.34700:26:30.450 --> 00:26:37.200But if the abuser, if theabused woman, tries to leave the abuser,34800:26:37.240 --> 00:26:42.119he will find her. Is basicallythe sad bottom line. Yeah,34900:26:42.400 --> 00:26:48.549and so the organization that I spokewith does not disclose their housing. It35000:26:48.789 --> 00:26:56.670is it is undisclosed, secret housingthat only the woman and her counselor through35100:26:56.710 --> 00:27:00.980this organization, know about, sothat the abuser is not tipped off where35200:27:02.059 --> 00:27:08.539to find her. In most cases, it is very unwise to offer to35300:27:08.579 --> 00:27:15.579drive the woman home or even toa safe place. If the abuser sees35400:27:15.700 --> 00:27:19.450it, you have just increased herdanger. Yeah, and I know we've35500:27:19.450 --> 00:27:27.049driven women home many times because weknow the man is really angry and we35600:27:27.250 --> 00:27:33.279know the woman is afraid and weoffer a ride home. And that is35700:27:33.480 --> 00:27:38.319not according to the expert. Thatis really foolish and dn't and even dangerous,35800:27:38.480 --> 00:27:41.319not only to the woman, probablydoes. This is a violent human35900:27:41.359 --> 00:27:48.950being. Yeah, who sees nowthis woman is exposing him and he's losing36000:27:48.069 --> 00:27:55.950his control over her. So again, something I had never known or thought36100:27:55.990 --> 00:28:02.460about, but I will now.And also, I think throughout the nation,36200:28:02.619 --> 00:28:04.900I know the sidewark counselors that Iinteract with. There's some of the36300:28:06.099 --> 00:28:10.339finest people on Earth, the mostgiving, the most generous people. I36400:28:10.539 --> 00:28:15.329know and I hear over and overand over again stories of driving women to36500:28:15.490 --> 00:28:21.769save places, to even the counselor'shome, or driving them home. And36600:28:22.089 --> 00:28:26.769now knowing, okay, a thirdof the women you interact with at least36700:28:26.680 --> 00:28:33.640probably are victims of domestic abuse.That is probably not a wise thing for36800:28:33.720 --> 00:28:37.799us to do. Yeah, notjust for our safety but for the woman's36900:28:37.839 --> 00:28:45.589safety. So thinking about how weinteract with the man is very important to37000:28:47.990 --> 00:28:52.910I. I've heard countless times andI've agreed with it. Step up,37100:28:52.150 --> 00:28:56.019be a man. Yeah, you'rea coward. I mean, I don't37200:28:56.019 --> 00:28:59.619know if I we call them acoward, but kind of suggest that,37300:29:00.539 --> 00:29:03.980you know, if not directly.So, think about it. You're facing37400:29:03.099 --> 00:29:10.730a man who, being in controlof that woman, is his. That's37500:29:11.009 --> 00:29:17.049what he is feeding off of.And if, if there is an attack37600:29:17.490 --> 00:29:22.210on him, imagine what that's doingto that mindset. Well, yeah,37700:29:22.009 --> 00:29:29.599so we still have to do whatwe know God has called us to do37800:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.799right, and that's, beyond ashadow of a doubt, bring God into37900:29:33.799 --> 00:29:41.390the equation, share the Gospel.But now how do we do it with38000:29:41.750 --> 00:29:48.670all this information? And at firstI just sat home and thought, I38100:29:48.829 --> 00:29:52.380have no idea. I felt Ihonestly the the my first response with this38200:29:52.539 --> 00:29:57.019information was kind of to feel paralyzed. Yeah, that's somewhere I ended up,38300:29:59.019 --> 00:30:03.500because God always got, always givesus great wisdom. Yeah, and38400:30:06.220 --> 00:30:11.410you had started, or told mewhen we had started discussing this, about38500:30:11.410 --> 00:30:15.369a biblical passage and I you know, honestly, I don't remember what it38600:30:15.609 --> 00:30:19.250was. But if you come upwith it, I remember thinking when you38700:30:19.329 --> 00:30:23.519were talking about it it had todo with control and I remember thinking that's38800:30:23.720 --> 00:30:30.559really a good passage to share withpeople in this situation. So if it38900:30:30.640 --> 00:30:34.160comes to you, okay, ifit comes back to you mentioned because it39000:30:34.319 --> 00:30:37.710comes back to my mind, Iwill share it. It was good.39100:30:37.789 --> 00:30:41.549But there are something about yeah,there are. You do think you remember?39200:30:41.630 --> 00:30:44.029I'm trying to think of the passesthat you're talking about in particular.39300:30:44.269 --> 00:30:48.630Well, so, so here's wherewe are. then. What do you39400:30:48.670 --> 00:30:53.380do with all this? What aresome key strategies or ideas in how we39500:30:53.500 --> 00:31:03.859deal with the women and the mennow that we suspect a domestic abuse situation?39600:31:03.180 --> 00:31:06.250So you want to hear what Icame up with and I'm sure you'll39700:31:06.289 --> 00:31:08.849have you'll have some other one.So may you probably have got them all39800:31:08.930 --> 00:31:11.690cover. They but listen. Well, we'll see. Okay. First of39900:31:11.769 --> 00:31:18.440all, just think about it.If you're an abuser, are you content,40000:31:19.400 --> 00:31:25.720joyful, your heart filled with peace? No, you probably pretty pretty40100:31:25.720 --> 00:31:30.480miserable, pretty miserable human being,and remember that. Remember that this man,40200:31:30.799 --> 00:31:36.470an abuser and the abused are peoplethat are not healthy, right.40300:31:36.750 --> 00:31:42.910They are not spiritually healthy, they'renot emotionally healthy, and so know that,40400:31:44.710 --> 00:31:48.779while it may be buried very deepin their psyche, they want out.40500:31:49.259 --> 00:31:55.700No one wants to be an abuser. Many of them have lived abuse40600:31:56.140 --> 00:32:00.140their whole life. This is allthey know, an or I. I'm40700:32:00.180 --> 00:32:05.529not going to discount that. Thereisn't evil, outright evil and demonic possession,40800:32:06.289 --> 00:32:09.650but I think it helps to rememberneither these people are in a place40900:32:09.650 --> 00:32:14.529where they really want to be.Yeah, and what's The answer to that?41000:32:15.529 --> 00:32:19.279That's bringing the Lord in his truthand to the equation, bringing a41100:32:19.359 --> 00:32:23.240fact that God rescues and saves allwho come to him. Yeah, yeah,41200:32:23.920 --> 00:32:29.839so I thought the first thing wouldbe to state facts. Yeah,41300:32:30.190 --> 00:32:37.750be very careful about name calling,especially well into both both to the abuser41400:32:37.950 --> 00:32:40.509and to the abuse. The theabused has had enough name calling to last41500:32:40.630 --> 00:32:45.700for a lifetime. And the abuseris, we already know, of violent,41600:32:45.819 --> 00:32:52.180controlling man, very immature, veryunhealthy, dealing with loss of control41700:32:52.420 --> 00:32:58.890and if he's hearing what he feelsis challenges to who he is, in41800:32:58.970 --> 00:33:01.970his control, you're probably going tomake the situation worse. So if I41900:33:02.009 --> 00:33:06.369call him a scumbag or her bag, I think I did that earlier,42000:33:06.609 --> 00:33:09.250okay, but I still believe thatmen that abuse women are scumbag. Yeah,42100:33:09.410 --> 00:33:13.440but I probably wouldn't call him thatto his face, certainly in that42200:33:13.519 --> 00:33:16.240scenario. Right. So what's yourmotivation, though? Is Your desire that42300:33:16.359 --> 00:33:20.839that he goes home and beat herup? Obviously now we're not. Yeah.42400:33:21.039 --> 00:33:25.680So what can we do that willbe less likely to result in her42500:33:27.549 --> 00:33:30.630being attacked? And sometimes I thinkthat is going to mean that we're going42600:33:30.670 --> 00:33:34.990to need to hold back on someof the stuff that we really feel,42700:33:35.029 --> 00:33:39.190yeah, and believe in in howwe deal with him. Yeah, because42800:33:39.190 --> 00:33:44.420we want to make sure that,of course, we want to protect that42900:33:44.579 --> 00:33:47.900baby, right, you know,because the scenario is at the abortion center,43000:33:49.539 --> 00:33:52.420here's a man, here's a woman, it seems that maybe there's an43100:33:52.460 --> 00:33:55.210abuse situation going on. We wantto save that baby, we want to43200:33:55.250 --> 00:34:00.089reach that woman and we care regardssof what other people say. We care43300:34:00.130 --> 00:34:04.170about both that woman and that babyand we care about that man too.43400:34:04.329 --> 00:34:07.849But as far as our primary objective. We want to want to say that43500:34:07.890 --> 00:34:10.639baby, want to reach that momand so I think, and you tell43600:34:10.679 --> 00:34:15.559me if I'm wrong, I'm goingto focus my conversation and my speech toward43700:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.519her. I'm going to be asgracious as possible, of course, if43800:34:17.519 --> 00:34:22.039I perceive that could be the situation, and I'm probably not going to say43900:34:22.079 --> 00:34:25.510which I might be inclined to say, but as in the conversation that we're44000:34:25.510 --> 00:34:30.230having, I'm thinking I'm probably notgoing to say a if he's abusive,44100:34:30.710 --> 00:34:31.789come over here, we can helpyou. I'm probably not going to call44200:34:31.829 --> 00:34:37.269it out like that because it's probablynot going to be helpful at all and44300:34:37.309 --> 00:34:40.820it's probably going to make things worse. And I know I have caught that44400:34:40.940 --> 00:34:45.420out before, or something similar tothat. Maybe not that directly but similar,44500:34:45.940 --> 00:34:50.500and now I I agree with you. I would not call that out.44600:34:50.539 --> 00:34:54.730So state facts, facts about thehumanity of the baby, facts about44700:34:55.090 --> 00:35:01.090useful resources, facts about Biblical truthof the sanctity of human life. And44800:35:01.250 --> 00:35:06.849the goal is, if you statethe facts and the truth of the Gospel,44900:35:07.199 --> 00:35:08.920but in a factual manner, thisis what the Bible says, this45000:35:09.000 --> 00:35:13.239is what's true about the baby,this is what's true about the resources we45100:35:13.360 --> 00:35:17.159can offer. You are giving thewoman the ability, in the tools to45200:35:17.400 --> 00:35:22.590come to a conclusion on her own. First of all, you're not coercing45300:35:22.670 --> 00:35:23.989her, you're just saying these arethe facts. Yeah, and and,45400:35:24.269 --> 00:35:32.829and you're giving the abuser and opportunityto hear some truth that he might not45500:35:32.989 --> 00:35:39.059otherwise take in, such as thetruth of God and God's clear desire for45600:35:39.219 --> 00:35:43.219what a family is supposed to be. And I think that was the story45700:35:43.340 --> 00:35:45.260that you told me that I can'tremember. But about what a man is45800:35:45.420 --> 00:35:52.449supposed to be and his yeah,well, that's efficians chapter five and it45900:35:52.730 --> 00:35:58.329speaks of husband's love your wives,as Christ loves the church, and rather46000:35:58.610 --> 00:36:04.639than Lording your power over her andabusing and manipulating her, you're supposed to46100:36:04.679 --> 00:36:07.639lay your life down for her.That's what we're called to do. We're46200:36:07.679 --> 00:36:13.599called rather than take advantage of womenand children, were supposed to protect them.46300:36:14.559 --> 00:36:17.239And the example here in if Hesianschapter five is of Christ. What46400:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.710did he do? He didn't abusehis church. He actually lays his life46500:36:21.789 --> 00:36:24.349down for his church. That's theexample. Love your wife is. Christ46600:36:24.510 --> 00:36:28.869loves the church. This is,by the way, exactly this is what46700:36:29.110 --> 00:36:31.630what you were saying earlier on thatI thought this is perfect. Did the46800:36:31.829 --> 00:36:37.260I think this chapter, these verses, they're not specifically targeting. Hey,46900:36:37.340 --> 00:36:42.340you abuse her, control freak,you, you violent man. You're giving,47000:36:42.500 --> 00:36:46.059right out of scripture, the truthof who Jesus was and what he47100:36:46.250 --> 00:36:50.650commanded all men to be. Ye, right, yeah, absolutely, and47200:36:50.730 --> 00:36:53.449that is the biblical truth. Right, and that is how, even though47300:36:53.650 --> 00:36:58.250maybe society at large and other culturesand things like that, even people who47400:36:58.289 --> 00:37:04.079claim to be Christian, have,over the years, made manhood and the47500:37:04.159 --> 00:37:08.079authority that God gives us as mena license to abuse and take advantage of47600:37:08.239 --> 00:37:13.960and manipulate and Lord their power overtheir their wives or the women that you47700:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.150know are supposedly under them. That'snot the way the Bible views it.47800:37:17.670 --> 00:37:24.389Leadership in a Biblical context is servantleadership, serving your wife, loving her,47900:37:24.469 --> 00:37:28.269laying your life down for her.Now, I'm not going to go48000:37:28.550 --> 00:37:32.059into a whole thing about leadership inthe structure of family, but as far48100:37:32.139 --> 00:37:37.500as God's words is God's Word isconcerned, men are supposed to be leaders,48200:37:37.260 --> 00:37:42.579but not tyrants and certainly not abusers, right, but those who lay48300:37:42.619 --> 00:37:45.210their lives down for those who they'recalled to lead. Yeah, and I48400:37:45.409 --> 00:37:51.449think that this would be a wholeother podcast and not one necessarily that is48500:37:51.690 --> 00:37:59.719our subject. Yeah, but thesubmission issue I can see being used easily,48600:38:00.880 --> 00:38:07.119twisted, yeah, in a twistedand corrupted manner to support almost not48700:38:07.280 --> 00:38:12.440a direct abuse, but some butfeed into that abuse of mentality. Oh,48800:38:12.519 --> 00:38:16.590absolutely. I mean abusers, peoplewill use whatever means they can to48900:38:16.630 --> 00:38:21.670manipulate people who use the word ofGod. They'll use whatever they know they49000:38:21.710 --> 00:38:24.269can come up with to use.But God's word certainly is not in support49100:38:24.309 --> 00:38:28.820of that sort of behavior. God'swords against it. Again, husband's Love49200:38:28.940 --> 00:38:31.099Your wives as Christ loves the church. Yeah, gave himself for her,49300:38:31.179 --> 00:38:35.699so that that's a biblical reality.Yeah, and and the truth of scripture49400:38:35.860 --> 00:38:40.650is that even to a man whois as despicable in many ways as as49500:38:40.809 --> 00:38:46.130one who would abuse a woman ora child, even he can be reached49600:38:46.170 --> 00:38:50.130by the power of scripture. Yeah, we and we can't forget that holy49700:38:50.210 --> 00:38:55.119spirits work. That's right hearts andthat's what's not in the secular domestic abuse49800:38:55.400 --> 00:39:00.559programs. And so I'm not sayingjust hand these women over to these programs49900:39:00.719 --> 00:39:05.400and pray that all will be well. I think we have a at absolutely50000:39:05.880 --> 00:39:09.949God ordained critical role to introduce theGospel and I'm just suggesting maybe there's ways50100:39:09.989 --> 00:39:13.750we could do it that might bea little bit different than we are right50200:39:13.869 --> 00:39:19.190now in light of this information.solutely okay. The the second one we50300:39:19.269 --> 00:39:23.860kind of touched on. Avoid accusatoryor condemning language or named calling the counterproductive.50400:39:24.780 --> 00:39:29.659Number three, if the woman haslied to the man about the facility50500:39:29.699 --> 00:39:34.820being an abortion center, consider thepossibility that she fears his anger and control50600:39:35.219 --> 00:39:38.530and it's an abusive relationship, becauseit's going to alter how you speak to50700:39:38.650 --> 00:39:43.170the two of them. Yeah,by the way, things may be different50800:39:43.449 --> 00:39:45.849if the woman comes without the manor if the woman comes with the man.50900:39:45.929 --> 00:39:49.329If she comes without the man,you're going to be able to really51000:39:49.409 --> 00:39:54.199talk with her very specifically and andgive her the important numbers and have her51100:39:54.239 --> 00:39:55.960call you. If the man isthere, you're going to have to be51200:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.440a whole lot more careful. Sure, given the link between abortion and domestic51300:40:00.480 --> 00:40:06.360violence, I think it would bea great idea to add a direct question51400:40:06.679 --> 00:40:10.869on any medical intake form. Areyou the victim of physical abuse? Okay,51500:40:10.869 --> 00:40:15.670so in particular you're talking about,you know if we're talking about mobile51600:40:15.710 --> 00:40:20.349argnancy centers or like what we havehere, the MOBILTERRA sound unit. Having51700:40:20.429 --> 00:40:23.619that as a question. Yeah,it would be important and I think if51800:40:23.699 --> 00:40:28.980we counsel women car side or onthe sidewalk, it's to just be part51900:40:28.980 --> 00:40:32.539of our regular questioning. Knowing athird of the women statistically or in domestic52000:40:32.579 --> 00:40:36.369abuse, I think it should beone of the first things we ask if52100:40:36.409 --> 00:40:38.090the man's not there, if theman is there, if you can get52200:40:38.130 --> 00:40:42.889her alone and ask her privately.But are you in any danger? Does52300:40:43.010 --> 00:40:45.889he hurt you? Yeah, isI think just be direct, be blunt52400:40:46.449 --> 00:40:52.320and give them that opportunity to answerif they're ready at all to leave the52500:40:52.400 --> 00:40:57.360relationship. Hopefully they will answer that. Look for opportunities to provide her with52600:40:57.400 --> 00:41:00.559the domestic abuse hotline, but you'veyou got to try and do without the52700:41:00.599 --> 00:41:04.429abuse are knowing. If we don'thave it on our literature, it should52800:41:04.429 --> 00:41:08.550be because if it's nestled in witha whole bunch of other resources, it's52900:41:08.550 --> 00:41:13.829not going to red flag the abuserwho might be looking at the resources.53000:41:13.989 --> 00:41:15.789He might just be looking at,Oh look, there's all these resources,53100:41:16.309 --> 00:41:22.619but if you include the domestic abusehotline, she has hopefully access that an53200:41:22.659 --> 00:41:29.380opportunity to call that okay. Empowerboth the man and the woman with a53300:41:29.500 --> 00:41:31.969Godly vision of what a family canbe. We talked about that a little53400:41:31.969 --> 00:41:37.369bit from a biblical perspective, payingto positive picture of mutual submission, which53500:41:37.369 --> 00:41:39.969is exactly what you talked about there, and I think that's one of the53600:41:40.289 --> 00:41:45.889most important messages we can give them, because my heart hopes, my spirit53700:41:45.050 --> 00:41:49.519hopes, that both of them areyearning, even though they don't know it,53800:41:49.880 --> 00:41:54.320for a better, healthy relationship.Share the Gospel if they're showing any53900:41:54.400 --> 00:41:59.039interest in listening to it, andshare it to both of them if they're54000:41:59.039 --> 00:42:02.110willing to listen to it. Weknow it's the only hope for true transformation.54100:42:04.190 --> 00:42:07.750Be sure the woman has your firstname and number so she can contact54200:42:07.789 --> 00:42:13.349you if you're the counselor would notshare any private information like a last name54300:42:13.349 --> 00:42:16.940or an address, especially when there'sa violent person in the equation. And54400:42:17.179 --> 00:42:22.059that's just something to mentioned real quick. It's something we're very intentional about here54500:42:22.139 --> 00:42:27.940in Charlotte is when we give outliterature, we always have a personal contact54600:42:28.019 --> 00:42:31.210number there and we have, youknow, list, as you mentioned earlier,54700:42:31.449 --> 00:42:37.130of resources, local pregnancy centers,things like that. But a personal54800:42:37.210 --> 00:42:40.369contact number is important because of situationslike this. When they can text us,54900:42:40.369 --> 00:42:43.889they can reach back out to us. Now we do, in most55000:42:43.889 --> 00:42:46.119situations try to get their number aswell so that we can have a way55100:42:46.159 --> 00:42:50.239to follow up with them, especiallyif they've chosen life. Right, we're55200:42:50.280 --> 00:42:52.880going to try to get their phonenumber. Yeah, and these situations,55300:42:52.960 --> 00:42:54.840though, you're kind of leaving thatball in their court. Yeah, I55400:42:55.039 --> 00:42:59.269mean you can try to get theirnumber, but make it clear as it's55500:42:59.269 --> 00:43:01.829safe to call, you run andaccording to the domestic violence hotline, it55600:43:01.989 --> 00:43:06.230is not. They may think itis, but she said it's not.55700:43:06.550 --> 00:43:09.110So be careful with that. Okay, if the woman has expressed fear for55800:43:09.190 --> 00:43:13.539her life, for her safety,there is a time to call the police.55900:43:13.539 --> 00:43:15.900Yeah, if the man is there. I did have to do that56000:43:16.019 --> 00:43:21.340once. The man was was forcingher, pulling her, as she screaming56100:43:21.380 --> 00:43:24.179and crying, into the abortion center. I did call the police and she56200:43:24.300 --> 00:43:29.730actually told the police everything was okay, and that's what sometimes happened. Right.56300:43:29.769 --> 00:43:32.889Yeah, do not drive the womanhome, do not take her to56400:43:34.090 --> 00:43:37.369your home. That's downright dangerous,dangerous for you, dangerous for her.56500:43:37.730 --> 00:43:45.079Don't give her your your address oryour last name. Pray, if prayer56600:43:45.679 --> 00:43:49.719and the need for God to interveneis so important it all. It's,56700:43:49.840 --> 00:43:54.320of course, always important, butit is really important in in this situation56800:43:54.559 --> 00:44:00.590because there's so much that we can'tdo. Seek to diffuse anger, which56900:44:00.630 --> 00:44:02.750is really important. It's easy toget in the flesh and get angry,57000:44:02.869 --> 00:44:07.590especially when you see this kind ofoff right stuff going on, but it57100:44:07.789 --> 00:44:10.619is not a good not health,not a good thing to be doing in57200:44:10.780 --> 00:44:16.099this situations like gas on the fire. Exactly. If the woman is alone,57300:44:16.099 --> 00:44:20.139be sure she has all the resources. If you're connecting her with a57400:44:20.219 --> 00:44:23.289mentorship program whatever you're connecting with herwith, make sure she has all of57500:44:23.409 --> 00:44:27.610that before she leaves you, becauseyou're not going to be calling her.57600:44:27.650 --> 00:44:30.130You're going to count on her callingyou. If you're connecting her with a57700:44:30.250 --> 00:44:36.570mentor or there's people that are goingto be helping her with any resource,57800:44:37.010 --> 00:44:42.639be sure that she has their phonenumber and notify who all those resources.57900:44:43.199 --> 00:44:46.880Don't call her. Don't call heruntil she has called you and given given58000:44:46.960 --> 00:44:52.869you permission or times when it's safe. And finally, our model is Jesus.58100:44:52.909 --> 00:45:00.989Jesus was calm, confident, prayerful, truthful, tactful, kind and58200:45:00.750 --> 00:45:05.429direct, and so we are tomirror him and I think that is true58300:45:05.469 --> 00:45:09.219and no matter what situation. Absolutely, but maybe more so in this than58400:45:09.780 --> 00:45:15.340some of the others. Yeah,absolutely. So it's probably been pretty heavy.58500:45:15.380 --> 00:45:19.699Yeah, heavy subject. It's asubject that we deal with a lot.58600:45:19.739 --> 00:45:22.929Of these hard case subjects are difficultto deal with, and so we58700:45:23.130 --> 00:45:27.809certainly don't want to have you guysleft with like, Oh man, I58800:45:27.969 --> 00:45:30.730hope I don't encounter this or ifI do, I hope I can know58900:45:30.889 --> 00:45:37.880what to do. God is ourdirection, right, he gives us direction.59000:45:37.920 --> 00:45:42.880Yeah, his Holy Spirit is inus, and so when you encounter59100:45:42.920 --> 00:45:47.320situations like this, whatever the hardcase situation might be, it's always important59200:45:47.320 --> 00:45:51.510to lift it up to the Lordin prayer. God has far more wisdom59300:45:51.989 --> 00:45:55.429than I do, and Vicki does. Then the domestic abuse hotline lady does.59400:45:57.469 --> 00:46:01.230God knows. Yeah, and Godcan intervene and certainly God can save59500:46:01.349 --> 00:46:07.019dirt bags. It'scumbags. He savedme. I was not an abusive man,59600:46:07.219 --> 00:46:10.059but I'll had other sin issues thatwere going on and you know,59700:46:10.179 --> 00:46:15.460God can save these women out ofthese situations. So we have to always59800:46:15.460 --> 00:46:17.260bring God into the equation, bringthe hope of the Gospel and the in59900:46:17.300 --> 00:46:22.769the equation. So hope this isequiped some of you guys that are listening60000:46:22.050 --> 00:46:27.170if you have suggestions for us.Maybe you've dealt with a situation like this.60100:46:27.329 --> 00:46:29.969You've been involved of them, maybesidewalk canceling for a long time or60200:46:30.050 --> 00:46:32.400a pregnancy center for a long time, and you've dealt with situations like this60300:46:32.519 --> 00:46:37.000and you can offer us some wisdom. We certainly don't feel like we have60400:46:37.079 --> 00:46:40.599it all together and we probably onlyreally scratch the surface here in this podcast60500:46:40.800 --> 00:46:44.159some of the things that can betouched on. So reach out to us.60600:46:44.280 --> 00:46:47.230I shared my email earlier d parksat cities for lifecom. She is60700:46:47.309 --> 00:46:52.789a vcs Oregat cities for lifecom.Reach out to us if you have subjects60800:46:52.829 --> 00:46:57.269you'd like for us to cover onthis podcast and maybe guests that you want60900:46:57.309 --> 00:46:59.949us to interview. Bring on,we've done that in the past. We'd61000:46:59.989 --> 00:47:05.420certainly be willing to do that.So reach out to us and we'll put61100:47:05.460 --> 00:47:09.179this article out on sidewalks for lifecom. Sidewalks the number four lifecom. But61200:47:09.260 --> 00:47:22.409until next time, God bless,give me out for love, give me61300:47:22.170 --> 00:47:30.039our love, for gratitude. Iknow it will cost me my life.61400:47:34.760 --> 00:47:37.159Nothing's too precious. And some metyou