Hard Cases: Cara Chose Life and Then Lost Her Twins

WEBVTT100:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.400I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me Lord,200:00:06.879 --> 00:00:11.429I am yours. Welcome to theGospel Center pro life podcasts and this episode,300:00:11.509 --> 00:00:13.990in the following episodes, we're goingto share with you some stories that400:00:14.029 --> 00:00:18.190we've encountered at the abortion centers andsome principles that we learned in those stories500:00:18.230 --> 00:00:24.980to help equip you. So staytuned. Me Lord, I felt show600:00:25.660 --> 00:00:35.539Passish, touch your heart. UseMe. All right. Well, welcome700:00:35.579 --> 00:00:39.649to the Gospel centered pro life podcast. Appreciate you guys tuning in and,800:00:40.250 --> 00:00:44.409as always, we appreciate if youguys would share this podcast with your friends,900:00:44.490 --> 00:00:48.450with your family members, people youlove, people that maybe you want1000:00:48.490 --> 00:00:52.000to love, you know, justpicture you want to love you because the1100:00:52.039 --> 00:00:57.159podcast is so good. Amen.Amen. So please do share this podcast.1200:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.399Please reach out to us. Wealways encourage you guys reach out to1300:01:00.479 --> 00:01:04.629us with questions that you have podcastideas. Thanks you want us to cover.1400:01:06.790 --> 00:01:11.189But actually we've decided that in thesenext couple of podcast now may not1500:01:11.349 --> 00:01:15.590be all of the next like consecutivepodcast because if we come up with other1600:01:15.670 --> 00:01:19.420cool ideas and things we want tocover between we may we may throw those1700:01:19.459 --> 00:01:23.060in there, but we really wantto equip people that are out on the1800:01:23.099 --> 00:01:26.859sidewalk. That's the that's the focusof this gospel center pro life podcast.1900:01:26.180 --> 00:01:30.859Obviously talk about prolife issues in lightof the Gospel, but really equipping people2000:01:32.299 --> 00:01:34.849who are out on the sidewalk attheir local abortion center. And one of2100:01:34.849 --> 00:01:40.049the things that we know from experienceand from hearing from other people that are2200:01:40.049 --> 00:01:44.689out on the sidewalk is the difficultyof dealing with these hard cases. Like,2300:01:44.849 --> 00:01:48.480what do you say in different hardcases? What do you say when2400:01:48.519 --> 00:01:52.760a mom says I was raped?What do you say when a mom tells2500:01:52.799 --> 00:01:57.200you that she her baby's already dead? Yeah, or what do you say2600:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.079with a woman coming to an abortioncenter who says her parents are going to2700:02:00.120 --> 00:02:04.629kick her out? Yeah, thingslike that. They can be hard situations.2800:02:04.629 --> 00:02:07.390You've been counted some of those.I know I have even this week2900:02:07.430 --> 00:02:09.270one of those. Yes, maybe, Wow, I'd say definitely all of3000:02:09.349 --> 00:02:15.030the above right, all the time. Yeah. Now, you had to3100:02:15.069 --> 00:02:21.699acknowledge that. Statistically, the thingsthat people use to justify abortion, whether3200:02:21.699 --> 00:02:24.819it be rape, incest to healthof the mother, those are very rare3300:02:25.180 --> 00:02:29.860to encounter at the abortion center.However, if you do ministry at an3400:02:29.900 --> 00:02:35.610abortion center long enough, you willencounter those situations. You will encounter those3500:02:35.650 --> 00:02:38.729hard cases and those are the onesthat can really trip people up. Yeah,3600:02:38.810 --> 00:02:40.889and really make it, you know, like what do I do?3700:02:42.009 --> 00:02:44.800What do I say in the situation? Yeah, so truly helpful to hear3800:02:44.919 --> 00:02:50.000what other people us have said andhow we have handled those situations. And3900:02:50.199 --> 00:02:53.840we have certainly not you'll see inthis study. Well, actually not so4000:02:53.919 --> 00:02:55.120much in this study, the nextstudy we're going to go over at that.4100:02:55.560 --> 00:03:00.310Sometimes we don't handle it so well. So sometimes we're put on the4200:03:00.430 --> 00:03:04.469spot and as we rethink what wedid, we decide maybe there was a4300:03:04.550 --> 00:03:07.550better way to deal with it,and so we're hoping through our experience,4400:03:07.629 --> 00:03:10.629in our failures, that we canguide you and maybe doing things a little4500:03:10.669 --> 00:03:14.460bit better than we did. Yeah, yes, so what we're going to4600:03:14.500 --> 00:03:20.020be doing is not just giving yousome one, two three principles, but4700:03:20.139 --> 00:03:23.900actually we're going to be talking throughan actual story that we've been a part4800:03:23.939 --> 00:03:28.009of, that God allowed us tohelp a mom choose life in the midst4900:03:28.050 --> 00:03:31.370of or maybe sometimes not choose liferight, and we're going to be walking5000:03:31.449 --> 00:03:36.370through sharing that story, but notjust for the sake of sharing a cool5100:03:36.370 --> 00:03:39.729story, but sharing some of theprinciples that were applied or that we may5200:03:39.849 --> 00:03:45.800even failed to apply in that situationto bring out a good result. Yeah,5300:03:45.800 --> 00:03:46.680and then how we dealt with those. So we're going to be sharing5400:03:46.680 --> 00:03:51.639principles and kind of weaving those principlesin to the story, again, an5500:03:51.639 --> 00:03:57.750actual story that played out here inCharlotte, and there's details. We didn't5600:03:57.750 --> 00:04:00.389change any details really, but wedid change the name. Maybe we didn't5700:04:00.389 --> 00:04:05.789give super clarifying details right because wedidn't want to. You didn't want to5800:04:05.789 --> 00:04:10.539identify the person or anymore who mightbe listening to identify the person. So,5900:04:11.180 --> 00:04:13.300but this is a real story.It is really has to worry and6000:04:13.300 --> 00:04:15.459it would be really cool maybe inthe comments sections, as you listen through6100:04:15.579 --> 00:04:19.339this, to offer what you mighthave done that is different and maybe a6200:04:19.459 --> 00:04:24.060lot of people can learn from eachother on how this might have been handled6300:04:24.100 --> 00:04:26.769other than how we handled it.Yeah, or maybe you just want to6400:04:26.810 --> 00:04:30.170applaud us. Yeah, look likethat too. Well, I think to6500:04:30.290 --> 00:04:32.769me personally, I think even biblically, I like to learn from other people's6600:04:32.810 --> 00:04:38.449mistakes. If you look through theBible, yeah, and you see a6700:04:38.569 --> 00:04:42.800man like Abraham, who made somepretty major mistakes. Did the Lord blessed6800:04:42.800 --> 00:04:45.240him, for sure, but hemade mistakes and we can learn from Abraham's6900:04:45.240 --> 00:04:49.360mistake. We can learn from Mosesmistakes, things that he didn't do quite7000:04:49.360 --> 00:04:53.269right. We can learn, course, from people's successes, but we can7100:04:53.310 --> 00:04:56.670also learn from their failures and wecan learn from our own successes and failures.7200:04:57.430 --> 00:05:00.230I think that's a biblical principle.Yeah, and so we want you7300:05:00.230 --> 00:05:02.750guys to learn from some of ourfailures and even some of our successes.7400:05:02.910 --> 00:05:05.709So that's what we're going to besharing in this story. Yeah, so7500:05:05.829 --> 00:05:10.620in this story we changed her name. We're going to call her CARA,7600:05:10.939 --> 00:05:15.060okay, and she I'm going toset the scene for you first. Okay,7700:05:15.459 --> 00:05:18.620so this this happened some years ago, so my memory actually is fuzzy7800:05:18.660 --> 00:05:23.889on some of the details, butthe important details her are accurate. Yeah,7900:05:24.050 --> 00:05:28.370so she came early to the abortioncenter, beat long before opened and8000:05:28.490 --> 00:05:31.930actually even before most of our teamwas there. There was only one team8100:05:32.009 --> 00:05:35.839member there at the time when shepulled into the parking lot. That that8200:05:36.240 --> 00:05:41.079was Elisha, one of you,one of our men, and Elijah waved8300:05:41.160 --> 00:05:46.439to her offered help as they're pullingin and she pulled her car over to8400:05:46.519 --> 00:05:48.040him in tears. First of all, she parked and then came to him8500:05:48.160 --> 00:05:53.990in tears, and she told melater, as I was talking with her,8600:05:54.110 --> 00:06:00.350she said that she instantly noticed hishigh top converse sneakers and smiled despite8700:06:00.350 --> 00:06:04.540her tears and her deep sorrow,because she said he looks so young and8800:06:04.660 --> 00:06:10.699these are her words, so Dorkybut kind. She could tell, and8900:06:10.980 --> 00:06:14.899it's soon. Anyone who knows Elijahyou know right away he's a kind and9000:06:15.180 --> 00:06:17.420godly man, and so she knowshe's kind of Dorky to he did.9100:06:19.769 --> 00:06:25.290We Love alusha anyway. So that'sthat's kind of the scene. All right.9200:06:25.649 --> 00:06:30.250So what are the the the mostimportant points we can get just right9300:06:30.410 --> 00:06:32.959off the bat? Yeah, fromfrom what's going on. Well, I9400:06:33.079 --> 00:06:39.439mean the first point is be dorkypoint but kind. Yeah, because,9500:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.800well, one of the principles is, and of course you wrote an article9600:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.439going through this, so that's kindof the French we are going to post9700:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.949along with that. So that's theframework that we're going through. is to9800:06:48.990 --> 00:06:55.029be available. If Elijah wasn't there, yeah, then she wouldn't have had9900:06:55.269 --> 00:06:58.670the the witness of a Christian standingout in front of the abortion center.10000:06:58.750 --> 00:07:01.540So that's one of the first keys. I mean, listen you, you're10100:07:01.579 --> 00:07:05.300not going to have situations that youencounter where you're going to have to deal10200:07:05.379 --> 00:07:10.100with hard cases if you're not outthere. So show up, be out10300:07:10.100 --> 00:07:14.420there. That's like three quarters ofthe battle is just showing up and being10400:07:14.500 --> 00:07:17.050out there on the sidewalk. Right, somebody has to be out there to10500:07:17.209 --> 00:07:23.370give these babies a voice. Andit's not just to it's not a ministry10600:07:24.250 --> 00:07:28.410of really enjoyment. Right, evenenjoy being out there means, since we10700:07:28.490 --> 00:07:30.920do right, I enjoy being outthere, but I don't enjoy being out10800:07:30.920 --> 00:07:33.040there. You know the yeah,what we need to be definitely, we10900:07:33.160 --> 00:07:36.839enjoy being there in obedience to God, but what we are going to encounter11000:07:38.079 --> 00:07:41.319is heartbreaking. Yeah, and andhard, yeah, and and so.11100:07:42.439 --> 00:07:45.629So you have to show up,and I think a corollary to just showing11200:07:45.670 --> 00:07:49.149up is make sure you show upon time. Yeah, when you'RE gonna11300:07:49.350 --> 00:07:55.709bear the most fruit. For example, the abortion center where this happened opens11400:07:55.790 --> 00:07:59.540the doors as early as nine o'clock, certainly on Mondays, and women are11500:07:59.579 --> 00:08:03.220sometimes lining up at a quarter tonine. Well, if no one's there,11600:08:03.660 --> 00:08:09.660like Elijah was when she arrived,he might have missed that golden opportunity11700:08:09.740 --> 00:08:11.379to call out to her and shemight not have come back out, yeah,11800:08:11.540 --> 00:08:15.810once she had gone in. Soshow up and show up on time.11900:08:15.930 --> 00:08:18.610Yeah, right. Yeah, andjust a practical point with that,12000:08:18.250 --> 00:08:22.610find out what time your local abortioncenter opens up. A lot of folks12100:08:22.769 --> 00:08:26.129don't even know. They might knowwhere the abortion center is, but don't12200:08:26.129 --> 00:08:28.680know when time or what time itopens up. Being found a typically on12300:08:28.759 --> 00:08:33.120their website. Yeah, facebook,yeah, Google it. You'll find it,12400:08:33.519 --> 00:08:37.480and then try to be there earlierthan they open up. Those can12500:08:37.559 --> 00:08:39.679be actually, in my experiences,some of the most fruitful times, fruitful12600:08:39.720 --> 00:08:41.710time. That's why I do it. Yeah, I got a lot of12700:08:41.789 --> 00:08:46.669activity out there on the sidewalk,even not a lot of abortion patients in12800:08:46.710 --> 00:08:50.789the parking lot, and so peopleare more apt to come and talk to12900:08:50.870 --> 00:08:54.509you. I'll tell you. Also, I think there is the highest level13000:08:54.740 --> 00:09:00.179of conflicts sometimes when they first pullup, okay, because so many women13100:09:00.379 --> 00:09:03.980truly don't want to be there,but they feel there. You have no13200:09:03.100 --> 00:09:07.220other choice. So as they're gettingout of the car and they're seeing someone13300:09:07.299 --> 00:09:11.529already calling out about, hey,there's another choice, this isn't a good13400:09:11.570 --> 00:09:15.850idea. Your baby's precious before Godit, I think it. They're already13500:09:16.210 --> 00:09:20.289heightened. Sense of conflict can sometimesbe taken over the edge and then they'll13600:09:20.289 --> 00:09:24.009go in and it will percolate.Yeah, and there. So you're so13700:09:24.169 --> 00:09:26.519in the seeds as early as youpossibly as possible. Yeah. Yeah,13800:09:26.519 --> 00:09:30.440and that's what happened in this situationwith the lies you being there early.13900:09:30.679 --> 00:09:33.320Right, no one was there.Even the mobile unit wasn't there yet.14000:09:33.360 --> 00:09:37.159Right. And yet he was there. Thankfully. Kara came over and talk14100:09:37.240 --> 00:09:39.669to him. Yeah, and hewas able to ultimately, when the mobile14200:09:39.710 --> 00:09:43.350you didn't did come to get herto go on board the mobile unit.14300:09:43.389 --> 00:09:45.309Yeah, but don't get ahead ofthis. I won't get ahead of the14400:09:45.389 --> 00:09:48.029story. Okay, so the nextthe next part of the story. She14500:09:48.190 --> 00:09:50.710came over to him and he askedher if she was here for an abortion14600:09:52.350 --> 00:09:54.860and she admitted that she was,but said that she had no choice,14700:09:56.379 --> 00:10:00.740and so he began asking questions.She was in an abusive relationship. The14800:10:00.899 --> 00:10:05.779father was going to be going tojail. Yeah, but she knew that14900:10:07.330 --> 00:10:13.690custody of her children would be partiallyhis if she didn't kill the the baby.15000:10:15.370 --> 00:10:18.889So she she knew that also hewas going to be there. She15100:10:18.009 --> 00:10:24.360was going to have to raise thebaby alone, and she also knew that15200:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.000if she had the baby, shewas binding herself basically for the next eighteen15300:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.799years to a man that she reallyknew. Now I need to get rid15400:10:31.840 --> 00:10:35.429of, I need to get outof this relationship. Yeah, those are15500:10:35.429 --> 00:10:39.830serious. Yeah, those are seriouslyissues, but they help us then to15600:10:39.950 --> 00:10:46.149kind of talk about our next majorprinciple. Yeah, and that is determined15700:10:46.190 --> 00:10:50.059the situation. Yeah, you gotto ask questions. If a mom stops15800:10:50.139 --> 00:10:52.139to talk to you, it's goodto try to figure out why she's there15900:10:52.779 --> 00:10:56.580and then, you know, oneof the things that we teach our folks16000:10:56.620 --> 00:11:00.620here locally is don't beat around theBush. Don't talk about the weather.16100:11:00.820 --> 00:11:01.860I mean, maybe you can getsomebody to come over and talk to you16200:11:03.059 --> 00:11:05.690that's milling around in the parking lot. You can talk about the weather,16300:11:05.769 --> 00:11:07.929but a mom who stops to talkto you about whether in her vehicle or16400:11:09.049 --> 00:11:11.009just, you know, walking upto the abortion center, get right to16500:11:11.090 --> 00:11:13.610it. Are you here for anabortion? And then try to figure out16600:11:13.610 --> 00:11:16.250it's one of the things I wantto get right to. What brings you16700:11:16.330 --> 00:11:20.840here? What makes you feel likeabortion is an option for you? Yeah,16800:11:20.120 --> 00:11:24.919so determining the situation is key becauseyou can't employ any of the other16900:11:24.080 --> 00:11:28.120things, first and foremost, ifyou aren't there, like we talked about17000:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.320that first principle. But then ifyou don't know why they're there, right,17100:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.870and so determine the situation. Yeah, I have an example of when17200:11:35.990 --> 00:11:37.710someone didn't do that. Elijah dida good job of doing that. He17300:11:37.789 --> 00:11:41.509knew, he found out a reallyall the key elements. This morning,17400:11:41.789 --> 00:11:46.110someone who is not with us butis a pro life person out on the17500:11:46.190 --> 00:11:50.580sidewalk did have a car stop forhim and he just started talking, just17600:11:50.740 --> 00:11:52.379going on and on and on,basically about God, which is, you17700:11:52.460 --> 00:11:56.980know, I'm not belittling that youshould talk about God. But then the17800:11:58.139 --> 00:12:01.769car pulled away and I asked,tell me about the situation. Well,17900:12:01.809 --> 00:12:05.690he knew nothing. So we hadnothing to go on because he had talked18000:12:05.090 --> 00:12:11.210without asking questions. So I thinkasking questions find out the situation is just18100:12:11.409 --> 00:12:13.970really a key point. Absolutely allright. So then Elijah said, look,18200:12:15.169 --> 00:12:18.200we can help you, and Elijahwas I don't know how new.18300:12:18.240 --> 00:12:22.000He was so much was he waspretty new at that point, because there18400:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.639was a few years ago, andhe honestly what's going through his head is18500:12:28.240 --> 00:12:31.149I don't know what to do.But he said we can help you,18600:12:31.309 --> 00:12:35.590and he literally said this to her. I'm not sure how we can help18700:12:35.669 --> 00:12:43.029you, but I know someone whodoes know. Yeah, and and so18800:12:43.629 --> 00:12:48.940he has her weight and he andhe called me. Yeah. So,18900:12:48.100 --> 00:12:52.620so we have a couple of principlesthen. Yeah, that a scripture that19000:12:52.700 --> 00:12:58.379comes to mind for this particular principle, which is trust that with God there19100:12:58.539 --> 00:13:01.409is help available. Yeah, isa psalm forty six in verse one.19200:13:01.529 --> 00:13:07.370God is our refuge and strength,the very present help in trouble. God19300:13:07.090 --> 00:13:13.399does have help resources available for thesewomen. Of course, spiritually he's offered19400:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.559them South vaition through Jesus Christ andwhat he accomplished his in his death barren19500:13:16.639 --> 00:13:22.080resurrection. But also there's practical helpand I know for me personally, I19600:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.509know you'll bear witness with this.Even though right away in every situation maybe19700:13:26.549 --> 00:13:30.830we don't necessarily have a resource inmind to meet whatever needs they have,19800:13:31.549 --> 00:13:35.669we know that there's something and thatwe can dig for that resource and we've19900:13:35.710 --> 00:13:39.909been able to find. I meanthere are so many resources that are available20000:13:39.950 --> 00:13:45.059here in Charlotte, so many ministriesand organizations that will meet these women's needs,20100:13:45.299 --> 00:13:48.379that I can say with confidence,though we can't help you with every20200:13:48.659 --> 00:13:54.820possible aspect of every situation, wecan help you in some measure with whatever20300:13:54.899 --> 00:13:58.250situation that your face, right andif we don't know, we're going to20400:13:58.289 --> 00:14:01.450find who can help you, whichis which is indeed what what he did.20500:14:03.370 --> 00:14:09.529And I didn't really know how tohelp in some of those situations,20600:14:09.440 --> 00:14:16.480but I instantly got on my computerand started googling domestic violence lawyers that could20700:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.399could help for pro bono. Iknew she didn't have a lot of money20800:14:22.240 --> 00:14:28.389and and so I gathered all ofthat information. And while I'm home gathering20900:14:28.470 --> 00:14:31.669this information, the RV does showup. Yeah, that's our mobile ultrasound21000:14:31.710 --> 00:14:37.710unit through help pregnancy center, andthe woman counselor that that would be able21100:14:37.750 --> 00:14:41.419to go on the RV with Karaalso showed up. Our nurse was still21200:14:41.460 --> 00:14:48.259not there, but right away whatwe knew, what Angela was the counselor,21300:14:48.580 --> 00:14:54.610and Angela knew get this mom toa place of safety, onto that21400:14:54.809 --> 00:15:00.929RV, away from the pull ofthe abortion center. Yeahh and Angela sat21500:15:00.970 --> 00:15:05.649her down and started talking with her. Yeah. So that leads to kind21600:15:05.690 --> 00:15:11.000of the next principle. Yeah,yeah, and the principle is something we21700:15:11.080 --> 00:15:15.120talked about in a podcast months ago. You remember our podcast about the unity21800:15:15.600 --> 00:15:20.039of the body. Yeah, andjust different pieces of the body of Christ21900:15:20.120 --> 00:15:24.629working together in unity, but inparticular with your team and with people who22000:15:24.629 --> 00:15:28.149around you, people that you know, people in your church that you can22100:15:28.190 --> 00:15:31.789utilize using team members. Maybe youdon't know what the answer is and seems22200:15:31.830 --> 00:15:35.379like here in Charlotte everybody thinks thatVicky is the resource for everything, and22300:15:35.500 --> 00:15:39.500she actually is. He has alot of knowledge, a lot of experience22400:15:39.580 --> 00:15:43.539and connecting mombs with resources, andso people utilize you. A lot of22500:15:43.580 --> 00:15:46.899times the utilize me, which isfine. Angela is also another great resource,22600:15:48.019 --> 00:15:50.490another person that we can get onthe phone with and say, Hey,22700:15:50.529 --> 00:15:52.409Angela, we have a mom inthis particular situation. Can Be can22800:15:52.450 --> 00:15:56.409you dig for resources here? Right, even if there are people that I22900:15:56.529 --> 00:16:00.690mean I know Elijah. He said, as we were just talking earlier before23000:16:00.690 --> 00:16:04.039we started recording this podcast, hiswife is available. She's pregnant with twins23100:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.559and waiting for the phone to ring, and I mean waiting for the phone23200:16:07.600 --> 00:16:11.080to ring. So maybe even havingpeople, getting people to volunteer who maybe23300:16:11.519 --> 00:16:15.840maybe they can't be on the sidewalkfor whatever reason. Maybe they're a homeschool23400:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.909mom with four or five kids andthey can't be out there on the sidewalk23500:16:18.950 --> 00:16:22.549or whatever, but maybe they couldbe available right to get on the phone23600:16:22.590 --> 00:16:25.470to you, call them up andsay, Hey, I need you to23700:16:25.549 --> 00:16:30.070search for housing resources right away,I need you to search for adoption resources.23800:16:30.149 --> 00:16:33.740If you don't have those things,those resources already compiled, you can23900:16:33.779 --> 00:16:37.980have that person do those things.For utilizing your team or you building a24000:16:37.059 --> 00:16:41.580team and then utilizing that team rightis also very helpful. Right. Yeah,24100:16:41.580 --> 00:16:45.220and so we kind of combined asection. So using the team members,24200:16:45.340 --> 00:16:49.809but also that be prepared to offerresources. Is is one of the24300:16:51.529 --> 00:16:53.690other principles with that use the teammembers and then, if you don't have24400:16:53.929 --> 00:16:56.970resources, and you kind of touchedon this, develop them. Yeah,24500:16:57.049 --> 00:17:03.320and that's why I do have alot of resources kind of at my fingertips.24600:17:03.679 --> 00:17:07.440Is I was I did develop ageneral resource list for our ministry.24700:17:07.759 --> 00:17:12.480I developed off of what someone elsehad already started but then they added things.24800:17:12.519 --> 00:17:17.029So we do have a good sizedlist. But did it through Google.24900:17:17.230 --> 00:17:21.349Yeah, so it didn't take anyspecial genius. Is a tremendous resource.25000:17:21.390 --> 00:17:23.990It really. I mean I'm prettysure the CEO of Google and the25100:17:25.069 --> 00:17:29.230higher ups and Google would not appreciatehow we use Google in such an effective25200:17:29.309 --> 00:17:30.859'm not sure to bring pro life. I don't think they're pro live.25300:17:30.859 --> 00:17:34.019I think they're pretty proabortion. Yeah, but we use Google all the time25400:17:34.420 --> 00:17:40.059to dig for new resources and wefind stuff all the time. There's stuff25500:17:40.460 --> 00:17:42.859here in Charlotte, but there's stuffbe on. I know at one point25600:17:42.900 --> 00:17:45.730we had, maybe we'll share thatstory. At some point we had a25700:17:45.809 --> 00:17:49.410mother who came who was a drugaddict, who was pregnant. Yeah,25800:17:49.450 --> 00:17:52.450and we got on Google. Believeyou did or somebody did, got on25900:17:52.529 --> 00:17:56.210Google and found that there was actuallya maternity home that takes mothers who were26000:17:56.250 --> 00:18:00.400addicted and we didn't know about it. Now. And how did we find26100:18:00.440 --> 00:18:02.920it? Yeah, by good founding, by thank yeah, I put in26200:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.079the the keywords. Yeah, andso yeah, knowing the resources and and26300:18:07.200 --> 00:18:12.589kind of another part of what Angeladid was she really helped to calm Carra26400:18:12.789 --> 00:18:18.069down and let her. Know,this is not what your whole next you26500:18:18.150 --> 00:18:22.710know twenty years of your life isgoing to be. What you're experiencing right26600:18:22.750 --> 00:18:27.500now is not forever. Yeah,and to remind them the situation, the26700:18:27.539 --> 00:18:33.539fears that it's going to change,this is not permanent. What you're facing26800:18:33.619 --> 00:18:37.940right now is not permanent. Yeah, because they do feel like it's forever.26900:18:37.259 --> 00:18:40.980When you're in crisis, it feelslike it will never change. The27000:18:41.140 --> 00:18:45.730sense of crisis will never ever change. Yeah. So, so, so,27100:18:45.930 --> 00:18:49.250while Angela's trying to calm her down, the nurse arrives and in order27200:18:49.289 --> 00:18:53.170to do the ultrasound on the helpmobile unit you have to have the nurse.27300:18:53.250 --> 00:18:59.839So that the nurse arrives and goesover the Medical City history and takes27400:18:59.880 --> 00:19:04.319her back to look at her babyand what turned out to be babies.27500:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.960Yeah, we don't white remember,again, this was a few years ago,27600:19:07.960 --> 00:19:12.029whether she already knew she was havingtwins or whether it was revealed to27700:19:12.150 --> 00:19:18.470her on the RV. I honestlyjust don't remember. But anyway about about27800:19:18.509 --> 00:19:22.190it, she was having twins andthey were clear. Yeah, on on27900:19:22.349 --> 00:19:29.460that ultrasound and when she saw thosebabies, that begins to change. Everything.28000:19:29.500 --> 00:19:34.339Yeah, which leads to if you'reable, another very important principle.28100:19:34.619 --> 00:19:38.130Yeah, it's a connect them withtheir baby, show them their baby as28200:19:38.170 --> 00:19:42.890soon as possible. Right. Idon't believe that ultrasound is the only tool,28300:19:44.089 --> 00:19:47.049but ultrasound is a powerful tool,let me tell you. It is28400:19:47.089 --> 00:19:49.569a window into the womb. Itis and if you can connect that mother28500:19:49.650 --> 00:19:53.200with her baby, she's already connected. You know, the Lord has already28600:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.680given her that baby and literally thatbaby is connected to her. Yeah,28700:19:56.799 --> 00:20:02.640but if you can connect her mentallyand emotionally with that child and visually with28800:20:02.759 --> 00:20:06.880that baby, that is a powerfulway to help her to choose life.28900:20:06.920 --> 00:20:11.349So as soon as possible. Wethankfully have that mobile unit with help pregnancy29000:20:11.349 --> 00:20:15.349center there an awesome partner. There'sministries like them that bring their mobile units29100:20:15.430 --> 00:20:19.230to the abortion clinics and maybe youcan partner with them. Maybe that's already29200:20:19.230 --> 00:20:22.380there and I encourage you to builda good relationship with them if you're able29300:20:22.420 --> 00:20:26.740to do that. But maybe youdon't have that. Maybe there's a pregnancy29400:20:26.740 --> 00:20:30.579center next door, maybe there's apregnancy center fifteen minutes down the road from29500:20:30.579 --> 00:20:36.329the abortion center. We have sibboltmissionaries in New York who have been accustomed29600:20:36.369 --> 00:20:37.690to if a mom is there,they don't have a mobile unit parked right29700:20:37.730 --> 00:20:41.609there. But if a mom isthere the abortion center and she wants a29800:20:41.690 --> 00:20:45.650free ultrasound, they'll get her togo into the car with them if they're29900:20:45.650 --> 00:20:48.609willing to. And these women aretypically coming in New York, they're coming30000:20:48.609 --> 00:20:52.559from public transportation, so they don'thave a vehicle there to hey follow me,30100:20:52.079 --> 00:20:56.680so they'll hop in the car withthem. They'll drive the young lady30200:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.240over to the appointment. They'll callhim up ahead of time, drive them30300:21:00.279 --> 00:21:03.720to the appointment to get a freeultrasound, even weight on them, drive30400:21:03.759 --> 00:21:07.230them home and get them away fromthe abortion center. Yeah, that's really30500:21:07.269 --> 00:21:12.349Assorton and to see their baby,and the ultrasound does dispel the the myth30600:21:12.829 --> 00:21:18.069that that this is just a clumpof cells. But even I discovered something30700:21:18.109 --> 00:21:22.500again in my past few days ofcounseling a Teena I'm counseling, where she30800:21:22.819 --> 00:21:26.740refused to go to the ultrasound togo see her child because she knew she30900:21:26.779 --> 00:21:33.769would bond with the child. SoI sent her video of a child a31000:21:33.849 --> 00:21:37.170little bit older than her baby inthe womb and said, look at this,31100:21:37.250 --> 00:21:40.369this is a mom I just counsela few days ago, and when31200:21:40.490 --> 00:21:45.130she saw that that was one ofthe turning points for her because she said,31300:21:45.289 --> 00:21:49.119oh my goodness, this is actuallya baby and and it really occurred31400:21:49.240 --> 00:21:53.279to her, maybe for the firsttime, that the pro choice lies that31500:21:53.440 --> 00:21:57.440she had bought were just that relies. This was a baby in the womb.31600:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.789And if you so, if youyou have no access or they refuse31700:22:00.869 --> 00:22:04.750and ultrasound. Have a video ofan art sound. Use the see baby,31800:22:04.990 --> 00:22:08.950see baby. It's a free APP. It shows the baby in an31900:22:08.990 --> 00:22:14.109ultrasound at every week of development.Also, the necessarily a pro life at32000:22:14.150 --> 00:22:19.019sea. It's not. It's justa scientific APP that shows the development of32100:22:19.339 --> 00:22:23.420a baby through every week of lifefrom zero to forty, and that those32200:22:23.539 --> 00:22:32.890can be really, really helpful.So so while then Angela's on the RV32300:22:33.089 --> 00:22:37.930with Kara, she starts talking aboutthe baby shower that we provide. That32400:22:37.970 --> 00:22:41.329will provide two years for the twinsneeds. We talked about the mentorship program32500:22:41.529 --> 00:22:48.519we could provide. We also talkedabout placing the twins in the arms of32600:22:48.599 --> 00:22:53.440a loving adoptive family, and thereason Angela brought that up is because Kara32700:22:53.599 --> 00:22:57.670brought it up. Kara said shewas in really no place, about to32800:22:59.029 --> 00:23:03.750divorce, this abuse of husband onhis way to prison and she just without32900:23:03.829 --> 00:23:07.710a job at there are a lotof things going on in her life and33000:23:07.829 --> 00:23:11.349said I don't I don't know howI comparent. And so we began to33100:23:11.430 --> 00:23:15.299explore Angela, began to explore theoption of adoption. Yeah, with her.33200:23:15.579 --> 00:23:22.779So that kind of leads to ournext major principle in a situation where33300:23:22.980 --> 00:23:26.289this woman has really some pretty significantneeds. Yeah, yeah, and that33400:23:26.369 --> 00:23:30.450point is solidify that choice, thatchoice for life. Yes, you've connect33500:23:30.650 --> 00:23:34.970them with their baby, you've sharedwith them resources by arranging appointments and showers33600:23:36.049 --> 00:23:40.049to look forward to. So givethem because that's how the abortion clinic does33700:23:40.089 --> 00:23:42.759it. Not Saying we copy thethe yeah world's ways or anything like that,33800:23:42.880 --> 00:23:47.000but the abortion clinic trys to getthem locked into an appointment right away,33900:23:47.720 --> 00:23:49.359follows up with them, calls them, Hey, your appointment is in34000:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.559such and such day at such andsuch a time. We've even have women34100:23:52.880 --> 00:23:57.269who have chosen life who left theabortion clinic in the abortion clinic calls them34200:23:57.269 --> 00:24:00.349up later on in the day sayhey, you missed your appointment, but34300:24:00.430 --> 00:24:02.750we can set up another appointment foryou. They want to get them locked34400:24:02.789 --> 00:24:06.549into an appointment. Well, wecan use that same method and get them34500:24:06.589 --> 00:24:08.750set up with an appointment for ababy char let's say you have a local34600:24:08.869 --> 00:24:12.700church that's willing to do baby shower. Figure that out as quick as you34700:24:12.700 --> 00:24:15.980can with that local church and putit down on the calendar with her right34800:24:17.019 --> 00:24:18.900there. If you can do it, maybe your church is fully on board34900:24:18.900 --> 00:24:22.740with being out there on the sidewalkand you know your church on a Saturday35000:24:22.779 --> 00:24:26.009afternoon we'll be willing to do it. Look on your calendar right there on35100:24:26.089 --> 00:24:27.930the RV or right there on thesidewalk and say, okay, so can35200:24:27.970 --> 00:24:32.650we pin your you're such and suchalong, so we probably could do a35300:24:32.730 --> 00:24:36.569baby shower for you this many monthsand so let's pin it down on the35400:24:36.609 --> 00:24:40.599calendar this Saturday. Now that datemay change or whatever, but if you35500:24:40.680 --> 00:24:42.839can pin that day down, reallywhat you're doing is given them something to35600:24:42.920 --> 00:24:48.400look forward to. That can bereally helpful. If maybe you're maybe you35700:24:48.440 --> 00:24:51.440don't have again a mobile unit.Maybe it's a pregnancy center that's down the35800:24:51.480 --> 00:24:55.269road and maybe they're not open.That day. Some of them aren't open,35900:24:55.309 --> 00:24:59.390unfortunately, on Saturdays. Maybe youcan call up and get in a36000:24:59.710 --> 00:25:02.069pointment. A lot of these places, these pregnancy centers, that are not36100:25:02.150 --> 00:25:04.470open on Saturdays, still can makeappointments and things like that. They'll have36200:25:04.509 --> 00:25:08.740an appointment line. Get Her anappointment, get her a follow up appointment,36300:25:10.140 --> 00:25:12.140like on at help with their mobileunit. We try to get them36400:25:12.180 --> 00:25:15.819a follow up appointment beyond the mobileunit in the initial appointment. Get them36500:25:15.859 --> 00:25:18.980a follow up appointment in a coupleof weeks to follow up, to keep36600:25:19.059 --> 00:25:22.490them in the loop, to givethem something to look forward to and to36700:25:22.609 --> 00:25:26.930give them really a vision for thefuture and what God wants to do in36800:25:26.970 --> 00:25:30.490their lives. Yeah, and theythey're so hesitant to cancel an appointment.36900:25:30.569 --> 00:25:34.049I have had women agree with everythingI've said when they've stopped and say,37000:25:34.089 --> 00:25:37.039yeah, this is a baby,no, I don't want to do it,37100:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.920and they've come on the RV maybeand seeing the baby, but they'll37200:25:41.119 --> 00:25:45.240they'll be so concerned that they haven'tcanceled their appointment yet at the abortion center.37300:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.160Yeah, so they're it's kind offunny, but I see that a37400:25:48.519 --> 00:25:55.029lot. So giving them an appointmentthat solidifies life rather than death. Yeah,37500:25:55.069 --> 00:26:00.069I'd like to put the abortion pointappointment. So Angelo and I both37600:26:00.150 --> 00:26:03.990followed up with Kara for several weeks, particularly the most critical time is in37700:26:03.029 --> 00:26:07.380that the first couple days. Butwe both stayed in touch with her.37800:26:07.420 --> 00:26:11.819At this time in the history oflove life, I don't think they had37900:26:11.900 --> 00:26:15.099yet started or the mentorship program wasjust starting, and that's the ministry that38000:26:15.180 --> 00:26:19.930we've now merged with, which doesprovide mentorship programs for these women. Who38100:26:21.009 --> 00:26:22.809is going to do the mentors?The one that is going to link them38200:26:22.849 --> 00:26:26.769with the resources, has the backingof the Church? Is going to do38300:26:26.849 --> 00:26:30.970the baby shower? Is gonna Discipleand share the Gospel? But we didn't38400:26:30.970 --> 00:26:36.720have that yet, and so Angelaand I were the ones that that did38500:26:36.799 --> 00:26:41.079that follow up and and during thattime we connected her with the brick and38600:26:41.160 --> 00:26:47.549mortar how pregnancy resource center, whichprovides all kinds of classes and things for38700:26:47.670 --> 00:26:52.230for MOMS that are vulnerable. Butthen we also found through love life,38800:26:52.430 --> 00:26:56.269a family that was going to adoptboth the twins. Yeah, that Kara38900:26:56.390 --> 00:27:00.579loved. She loved the family shewas and she was feeling good about she39000:27:00.740 --> 00:27:07.180was going to bring these twins tobirth and then place them in the arms39100:27:07.220 --> 00:27:11.420of this wonderful other family. Andthat leads to another very important principle.39200:27:11.859 --> 00:27:17.690Yeah, this is a discipleship opportunity. It's your mom chooses live. Yeah,39300:27:17.930 --> 00:27:19.970this is an opportunity for us todisciple her. God wants to break39400:27:21.009 --> 00:27:23.049that cycle that's in their life,that cycle of sin that leads them to39500:27:23.130 --> 00:27:27.650the abortion center. That happens throughthe power of the Gospel and through discipleship.39600:27:27.809 --> 00:27:32.920Yeah, so discipleship is important.So and in their lives, mentorship,39700:27:32.960 --> 00:27:36.880all that's important, and then followingup with them. One of the39800:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.240things that we say is that thesewomen have often times in their lives been39900:27:41.319 --> 00:27:45.630betray they've been given promises or madepromises that people didn't keep. It's been40000:27:45.670 --> 00:27:47.990a lot of betrayal. We don'twant to be a part of that.40100:27:48.269 --> 00:27:49.630So we want to follow up andwe want to do what we said we40200:27:49.710 --> 00:27:52.390were going to do. If wesaid we're going to connect them with resources,40300:27:52.710 --> 00:27:57.109if we said we're going to callthem tomorrow, then call them tomorrow.40400:27:57.150 --> 00:28:00.220If we say, and a lotof times what you do here locally40500:28:00.619 --> 00:28:03.740and what most of our counselors do, is if they encounter a mom on40600:28:03.779 --> 00:28:07.579the sidewalk that chooses life. Theyactually follow up with her that day,40700:28:07.619 --> 00:28:11.299right later on that afternoon, andmost people in this day and age like40800:28:11.420 --> 00:28:15.009a text instead of a call,and it's very the chest if it's easy40900:28:15.170 --> 00:28:21.130to do with the text. Yeah, and I think staying in contact for41000:28:21.410 --> 00:28:23.970the next couple of days is reallyimportant. How are you doing? Yeah,41100:28:25.329 --> 00:28:27.319how are you? There's some thingsI can pray with you about.41200:28:27.480 --> 00:28:32.720Things like that are really helpful.Maybe even reminding them of their appointment.41300:28:32.799 --> 00:28:36.200You know, we did make anappointment at that pregnancy center down the road.41400:28:37.799 --> 00:28:40.880You know, just want to remindsyou that, not being you don't41500:28:40.920 --> 00:28:42.589want to be too intrusive, you'renot trying to dig in their business and41600:28:42.630 --> 00:28:45.710you're not trying to be, youknow, trying to be pushy or anything41700:28:45.789 --> 00:28:48.750like that, but just in aconcerning way, follow up with them.41800:28:48.789 --> 00:28:52.230Yeah, and encourage them. Yeah, one of the things I want to41900:28:52.269 --> 00:28:56.059mention that I intended to mention thecouple of previous points when we talked about42000:28:56.059 --> 00:29:00.180the pregnancy centers and things like that. Just a practical point for you guys.42100:29:00.500 --> 00:29:03.339If there is a pregnancy center downthe road, maybe ten or fifteen42200:29:03.339 --> 00:29:06.460minutes, make out a map ofthat pregnancy center, do it on like42300:29:06.500 --> 00:29:08.859a little card or something like that, and then on that little card,42400:29:08.900 --> 00:29:12.130I mean you can do stuff onvista print really cheap nowadays. You can42500:29:12.170 --> 00:29:15.970use, I use an APP onlinecalled canva where you can create stuff really42600:29:17.009 --> 00:29:19.009easily. You can make out amap of where that pregnancy center is from42700:29:19.009 --> 00:29:22.890the abortion center and maybe even onthat right the appointment time and day.42800:29:22.890 --> 00:29:26.599If you as a great main anappointment, if they're going to go and42900:29:26.640 --> 00:29:29.599they're not going to jump in thecar with you and you're going to drive43000:29:29.599 --> 00:29:30.519them there and they're not going tofollow you there, but they're going to43100:29:30.559 --> 00:29:34.359go themselves, go ahead and callahead. That's an important thing that I43200:29:34.519 --> 00:29:37.960did want to mention, so wedidn't miss that one. But follow up43300:29:37.319 --> 00:29:42.269is really important. discipleship is reallyimportant in the follow up really is discipleship,43400:29:42.509 --> 00:29:45.269because what you do, I thinkis really awesome, Vicki, is43500:29:45.349 --> 00:29:48.630you follow up with them and you'vegot women that you followed up with for,43600:29:49.069 --> 00:29:52.539I mean, what five, six, seven years that you send an43700:29:52.539 --> 00:29:56.059email out to them every morning witha different scripture, and it's just a43800:29:56.140 --> 00:30:00.900way of discipleship. Yeah, someresponse like et responses all the time,43900:30:00.980 --> 00:30:07.140and if it's if it's someone likesadly, last night, actually early early44000:30:07.210 --> 00:30:11.250this morning, I got the textfrom someone who is currently miscarrying, one44100:30:11.289 --> 00:30:15.730of those moms that I follow,and she said that she was not up44200:30:15.769 --> 00:30:18.730to talking and that I would nothear from her today. Totally understand that,44300:30:19.049 --> 00:30:23.440but I as I was doing mymorning figuring out which scripture to send,44400:30:23.480 --> 00:30:27.039I really thought and prayed about her. Yeah, and and I made44500:30:27.039 --> 00:30:33.160it specific to her situation, thoughit was something that would benefit anyone reading44600:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.309it, but because she, ofall of them I know, was going44700:30:37.430 --> 00:30:41.630through a really rough time, Ireally tailored what I sent out this morning44800:30:41.150 --> 00:30:45.190to her. And I was goingto say in terms of the follow up,44900:30:45.750 --> 00:30:51.980it should be relational and reminding andpainting vision, but I do believe45000:30:52.339 --> 00:30:56.420were always it should include a referenceto God in some way, a real45100:30:56.940 --> 00:31:03.619a reminder of why we're choosing lifefrom a the bigger picture. Yeah,45200:31:03.700 --> 00:31:08.529the Biblical standpoint, God's Lens ofwhy choosing life is so valuable, so45300:31:08.690 --> 00:31:15.490important. So so follow up.So so we did. Angel and I45400:31:15.609 --> 00:31:19.480both stayed in touch. There weremany struggles. The struggles continued folks when45500:31:19.559 --> 00:31:22.960they choose life, it's really justthe beginning. We are not here to45600:31:23.160 --> 00:31:27.039lie to them and say that yourlife is going to automatically change. It45700:31:27.240 --> 00:31:30.680doesn't, right and and you don'twant to set them up for failure in45800:31:30.799 --> 00:31:34.630anger at God by making that falsepromise. Yeah, in most cases that45900:31:34.829 --> 00:31:41.269is not what happens. But hershe had a really rough relationship with her46000:31:41.430 --> 00:31:47.539mother in particular, and I wasable to actually call her mother. I46100:31:47.740 --> 00:31:51.779honestly don't remember all the circumstances abouthow that came about, but I know46200:31:51.940 --> 00:31:56.900that there were some nasty stuff goingon with the mom and I felt that46300:31:56.059 --> 00:32:01.329the only way that Cara was goingto be nurtured and remain firm in her46400:32:01.450 --> 00:32:07.690choice for life was if I couldsomehow help smooth the relationship with her mother.46500:32:07.730 --> 00:32:12.369Yeah, and I did, andand it did help. And so46600:32:12.890 --> 00:32:16.680that leads to another you can't alwaysdo this, but it is another principle.46700:32:16.720 --> 00:32:21.519If you're able to, yeah,absolutely, if you're able to address46800:32:22.759 --> 00:32:25.920the circumstances in their environment, inthe things that are going on their life.46900:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.789When a woman leaves the abortion centerhaving chosen life, she's still going47000:32:30.029 --> 00:32:35.349back to the same environment. Hey, the same family situation, the same47100:32:35.430 --> 00:32:39.150marriage situation, the same situation withher parents or or with whoever, with47200:32:39.269 --> 00:32:44.859her boyfriend or whatever. And soif you can address those issues and you47300:32:44.940 --> 00:32:47.420can take care of those things,because if the devil will have his way,47400:32:47.819 --> 00:32:51.900obviously she would kill her baby andwhen she goes back into that same47500:32:51.980 --> 00:32:53.500situation that led her to that place, the devil's going to still try to47600:32:53.539 --> 00:32:58.019use those same things, those sameinfluences, to be able to get her47700:32:58.059 --> 00:33:00.289to go back to the abortion center. We've had women, and I think47800:33:00.329 --> 00:33:06.049we did share on a podcast sometime ago about a young lady who came47900:33:06.569 --> 00:33:09.769like five, four or five differenttimes to the abortion center to a board.48000:33:09.849 --> 00:33:14.480Yeah, and yet always do this. Of course, you can't get48100:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.119ahold of the mom like you didin care of situation or the husband or48200:33:17.160 --> 00:33:21.400whatever. Yeah, but if it'spossible and you can even talk to the48300:33:21.480 --> 00:33:23.400family members. Now that's getting alittle bold right, dealing with the mom48400:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.150who's pressing her to abort, butif the Lord opens up that door,48500:33:28.710 --> 00:33:30.390do it. I've talked to DAD's, I've talked to young men that are48600:33:30.390 --> 00:33:35.910pressing their girlfriend to have an abortionand being able to help talk them down48700:33:36.109 --> 00:33:40.029from being a jerk and pressing herto have the abortion. I've had lunch.48800:33:40.390 --> 00:33:44.180I remember one young man that Iwent and had lunch with him.48900:33:44.579 --> 00:33:47.700His girlfriend had come to the abortionclinic. He was not really pressure in49000:33:47.779 --> 00:33:52.779her to have the abortion, buthe was really apathetic toward the abortion and49100:33:52.900 --> 00:33:54.809he could care less. And soI was able to have lunch with him49200:33:55.130 --> 00:33:59.130and the Lord said that whole thing. I got his phone number actually from49300:33:59.130 --> 00:34:04.170her after she had chosen life.Had lunch with him, really drilled into49400:34:04.170 --> 00:34:07.130him as much as I could somebiblical truth about manhood, about being a49500:34:07.289 --> 00:34:10.119father, being what God has calledhim to be as a father, and49600:34:10.320 --> 00:34:16.239was really addressing those environmental situation yesin her life and it made a difference.49700:34:16.239 --> 00:34:20.360Yeah, I don't know for howlong, but he definitely stepped up49800:34:20.360 --> 00:34:23.349to the plate to at least tosome degree. I remember that situation.49900:34:24.349 --> 00:34:31.590Frequently you will encounter teens or youngpeople who are terrified of telling their mother50000:34:31.869 --> 00:34:37.110and we always offer we're happy totell her with you, either on a50100:34:37.269 --> 00:34:42.699call or will come visit and we'llwe'll talk with your mom with you,50200:34:42.860 --> 00:34:47.940and that's sometimes gives those teens oryoung people the courage to choose life because50300:34:47.940 --> 00:34:52.260they know they've got an ally.Yes, gonna go and talk with their50400:34:52.340 --> 00:34:54.889mom. I know we had onesituation with a brother who used to be50500:34:54.929 --> 00:34:58.570out here. He's actually since move. Him and his wife have moved to50600:34:58.610 --> 00:35:01.650Tennessee Tom and Carolyn. Okay,yeah, awesome couple. They are older50700:35:01.769 --> 00:35:06.690couple and they're grandparents at this point, right, but just godly people.50800:35:06.809 --> 00:35:08.639And there was a young lady thatcame to the abortions hitter here on the50900:35:08.719 --> 00:35:14.119trobe drive and her main fear wastelling her parents about the fact that she51000:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.440was pregnant. She came on boardthe Mobile Unit. She chose if she51100:35:16.480 --> 00:35:19.800didn't want to have the abortion,but she was afraid of her parents and51200:35:19.880 --> 00:35:23.550what they would say. And sotom and Carolyn said, Hey, will51300:35:23.590 --> 00:35:27.710follow you home and we'll share itwith your mom and with your dad.51400:35:27.909 --> 00:35:30.869will do it, and they actuallydid. They went that day, okay,51500:35:30.989 --> 00:35:32.269and I think she lived like anhour and a half, two hours51600:35:32.269 --> 00:35:37.780away, and they sat down withher parents talk from because Tom is a51700:35:37.860 --> 00:35:42.940pastor and so he talked from apastoral perspective and they're actually still friends with51800:35:43.099 --> 00:35:47.059that mom and with her mother,that young lady that chose life and with51900:35:47.179 --> 00:35:51.730the mother and the father to thisday. From my understanding, they still52000:35:51.730 --> 00:35:54.610keep in touch from Tom Yeah,and I mean that is going the extra52100:35:54.730 --> 00:35:59.730mile, but it truly can makethe difference. It often is the deciding52200:35:59.849 --> 00:36:02.809factor, especially with teens. They'reafraid to tell their mom's life or death52300:36:02.849 --> 00:36:07.440hinges on. What's going to givethem the courage to tell their mom?52400:36:07.480 --> 00:36:12.440Yeah, so really, really importantprinciple. Absolutely. Yeah, I want52500:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.039to encourage you, guys, becausewe're sharing maybe some some stuff. Like52600:36:15.159 --> 00:36:16.440some of you guys are just brandnew, some of you are maybe not52700:36:16.559 --> 00:36:20.750even on the sidewalking maybe you're gettingafraid, like, ooh, I can't52800:36:20.750 --> 00:36:23.030be involved in all of this.Neither could we. I'm just telling you52900:36:23.309 --> 00:36:28.869from just our natural mindsets and perspective, I could never be involved in these53000:36:28.909 --> 00:36:32.059situations. Yeah, God is notinvested in keeping you in your comfort zone.53100:36:32.380 --> 00:36:36.219God is invested in making you morelike Jesus, and a lot of53200:36:36.300 --> 00:36:38.179times that's you getting out of yourcomfort zone. God's not going to put53300:36:38.219 --> 00:36:43.739you in a situation that he can'thandle through you. You've got to trust53400:36:43.860 --> 00:36:46.099the Lord and all of these things. You've got to trust the Lord that53500:36:46.170 --> 00:36:50.050he's going to give you the wordsto say. Will Give you some principles.53600:36:50.090 --> 00:36:52.849Right, we're giving you some principles. We can never tell you everything53700:36:52.969 --> 00:36:54.610to say just right. God willgive you what to say. God will53800:36:54.650 --> 00:36:59.449give you the how to say whatyou need to say in the moment.53900:36:59.610 --> 00:37:01.440You've got to trust him. It'swhat's so important that you need to be.54000:37:01.639 --> 00:37:05.320Need to be walking with the LordMan when you're out there on the54100:37:05.360 --> 00:37:08.840side. Yeah, and you maynot have to do all this your first54200:37:08.920 --> 00:37:14.960time. I like you know it. I think God is so gracious in54300:37:15.199 --> 00:37:20.510bringing you gradually to the place thatyou need to be to be able to54400:37:20.590 --> 00:37:23.230be yeah, you know, aseffective as possible he will. He will54500:37:23.230 --> 00:37:27.309guide you, lead you along theway, and he doesn't do it all54600:37:27.349 --> 00:37:30.179at once. It's just like throughthe promised land. He didn't take them54700:37:30.219 --> 00:37:32.219in one day or it was onlysupposed to take really five days, ten54800:37:32.219 --> 00:37:35.780days, something like that. tookhim forty years. Yeah, because he54900:37:35.940 --> 00:37:39.300does lead US under at our pace, at our ability to move forward,55000:37:39.340 --> 00:37:44.570but he does try to move usforward. So that's a really great principle.55100:37:45.329 --> 00:37:50.329So next we had shared the Gospel. Kara did submit her life to55200:37:50.449 --> 00:37:57.170Jesus. Whenever that happens. Thatis monumental. Yeah, because that is55300:37:57.289 --> 00:38:00.840going to you can keep going backwhen they waiver, and they will even55400:38:00.960 --> 00:38:05.639carrot did, and it happens inmy experience almost every time. Once there's55500:38:05.679 --> 00:38:07.960been a choice for life, thereis still wavering back and forth. And55600:38:08.360 --> 00:38:12.159when they do, if they're honestand tell you, which some of them55700:38:12.199 --> 00:38:15.590do, especially the ones who havecommitted their life to the Lord, then55800:38:15.670 --> 00:38:19.909you can say, but wait,you've just committed your life to Jesus.55900:38:19.949 --> 00:38:22.989Jesus himself says, why do youcall me Lord, Lord and not do56000:38:22.110 --> 00:38:28.420what I say? Do you thinkthat God would now have you? Well,56100:38:28.579 --> 00:38:31.980ever, but especially now, killyour baby and and you've got that56200:38:32.139 --> 00:38:37.260kind of extra push to know,be firm in the commitment you just made.56300:38:38.019 --> 00:38:42.409So she's growing leaps and bounds inthe Lord she appeared to be.56400:38:42.610 --> 00:38:45.369She was just on fire. Yeah, Jesus. And what we're talking about56500:38:45.369 --> 00:38:50.570now, this is kind of afterthe encounter at the abortion center. She's56600:38:50.570 --> 00:38:54.130chosen life. You followed up,you've discipled. She's been connected with appointments56700:38:54.210 --> 00:38:58.079and things like that, and Angela'swell, it wasn't just me. She's56800:38:58.119 --> 00:39:01.000being mentored and being discipled right soshe's solid. She's walking with the Lord56900:39:01.119 --> 00:39:04.679Right. He's yeah, you're goingwell in her life and our walk with57000:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.360Lord. Her situations still not abet of roses, but there's getting to57100:39:07.360 --> 00:39:10.070change. So the abuse of husbandwas out of the picture now. I57200:39:10.110 --> 00:39:14.469think he was in jail at thatpoint. So, so he's out of57300:39:14.510 --> 00:39:16.829the picture. She had started theadoption process and that is all lined up57400:39:16.869 --> 00:39:21.909and ready to go and it lookslike she's on a great path and she57500:39:22.269 --> 00:39:28.380is loving God and so excited aboutwhat God has done and she's falling in57600:39:28.500 --> 00:39:31.380love with the twins. At thispoint she is still planning to place them57700:39:31.420 --> 00:39:37.809for adoption, but she loved them. And then tragedy strikes. And don't57800:39:37.849 --> 00:39:43.570be surprised if, if tragedy doesstrike, like I just described today,57900:39:43.610 --> 00:39:49.489there's a mom who chose life andthen she's miscarrying. It does happen.58000:39:49.690 --> 00:39:53.880Yeah, and so what happened withKara is the twins came early, and58100:39:54.159 --> 00:39:58.519too early. I believe it wastwenty four weeks, might have even been58200:39:58.599 --> 00:40:01.639only twenty three. And they did. One hung on a little bit longer58300:40:01.679 --> 00:40:07.510than the other, but both ofthem did ultimately within I think it was58400:40:07.630 --> 00:40:15.110only a few days they did bothdie, and that was just devastating.58500:40:15.070 --> 00:40:19.949Now there's a lot of things tothink about what has happened here. One58600:40:20.269 --> 00:40:23.980this is a woman who thought aboutkilling the babies. Chooses life, chooses58700:40:24.219 --> 00:40:29.659God, and one way of lookingat what happened, I'm not saying this58800:40:29.659 --> 00:40:32.340is right, don't get me wrong, but one way that often happens is58900:40:34.380 --> 00:40:37.809why did you do that to me, God? I made the right choice.59000:40:37.329 --> 00:40:40.849How could you take them from me? Now? Yeah, it is59100:40:42.010 --> 00:40:45.170such a common response. We needto know it's going to probably be the59200:40:45.250 --> 00:40:51.840response and be ready to deal withthat. But for Kara, she went59300:40:52.000 --> 00:40:58.440into a deep tailspin, deep,deep depression. Wondered where was God.59400:40:59.039 --> 00:41:02.119She had done everything right. Whyhad got abandoned her? How could God59500:41:02.199 --> 00:41:07.070allow this to happen? And itspiral down so far that she herself ended59600:41:07.110 --> 00:41:09.789up in jail. And I'm notgoing to go into this pacifics, because59700:41:09.789 --> 00:41:15.150I don't want to identify her.But that leads to again another really important59800:41:15.190 --> 00:41:19.380press. Yeah, yeah, andthat principle is don't neglect sharing the gospel.59900:41:19.900 --> 00:41:23.380And even though, unfortunately, evenafter her submitting her life to Jesus60000:41:23.460 --> 00:41:27.739and it it seemed legit right.I mean it was not just playing around60100:41:27.739 --> 00:41:30.820when just her check in some box. It wouldn't just her right to say60200:41:30.860 --> 00:41:32.929in the sinner's prayer. She submittedher life to Jesus and there were changes,60300:41:34.010 --> 00:41:37.449I mean there were life changes thatwe were seeing. She was truly60400:41:37.610 --> 00:41:40.050growing in the Lord from every indication. Yeah, and then, of course,60500:41:40.210 --> 00:41:45.369tragedy struck, like from any ofyou listening, yeah, and myself60600:41:45.610 --> 00:41:49.679included in yourself including, we've hadtraded yeah, striking, we've made bad60700:41:49.760 --> 00:41:54.719decisions, we've sinned and even asbelievers, believers to sin from time to60800:41:54.800 --> 00:41:58.840time. Guys, it happens,and it happened to her. And yet60900:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.670still, because the Gospel is sharedwith her, there is still that seed61000:42:01.829 --> 00:42:05.989of the Gospel that remained in herheart. There were still that truth of61100:42:06.070 --> 00:42:08.309God's word in the fact that shesurrendered her life to Jesus. She made61200:42:08.349 --> 00:42:13.389a commitment to the Lord and hemade a commitment to her, and so61300:42:13.590 --> 00:42:15.940she was grounded in some way.Even though the ground was shaky under her,61400:42:17.059 --> 00:42:21.300the ground of the Gospel was notshaken and she may not have,61500:42:21.579 --> 00:42:27.179at that point in her life,recognized that God was still there for her,61600:42:27.739 --> 00:42:30.289but I love how you said thatthat seed had been planted, it61700:42:30.449 --> 00:42:37.369had taken root and surprisingly, overthe next few months she I don't I61800:42:37.570 --> 00:42:40.650think she was put on some sortof house arrest. So she I don't61900:42:40.650 --> 00:42:44.210think she was in jail long.I don't really remember that part. But62000:42:44.800 --> 00:42:47.079she remained in touch with me.She contacted me through facebook. She was62100:42:47.159 --> 00:42:50.840on my email list that, youknow, I send out every morning.62200:42:51.719 --> 00:42:54.760So she was getting daily Bible versusfrom me and we would check in with62300:42:54.840 --> 00:42:59.110each other every few months. Ididn't know a lot of what was going62400:42:59.230 --> 00:43:02.230on in her life, but everyso often she'd pop up in my facebook62500:43:02.309 --> 00:43:06.909news feed or she dancer one ofmy Bible texts, and I knew that62600:43:07.190 --> 00:43:09.510she was working, she had friends, she was rebuilding her life. There62700:43:09.510 --> 00:43:14.539were some things I saw that concernedme, but she was, before that62800:43:14.739 --> 00:43:19.219disaster structure, was a baby Christian. So I wasn't surprised, yeah,62900:43:19.460 --> 00:43:24.539that she wasn't a mature believer withwith evident fruit in every area of her63000:43:24.579 --> 00:43:30.530life. But this Christmas I receiveda text from her and I'm going to63100:43:30.610 --> 00:43:34.849I'm going to read that to you. Hey, Vicki three years ago I63200:43:35.050 --> 00:43:38.690lost two babies and this year onChristmas Eve. God has gifted me with63300:43:38.809 --> 00:43:45.000an amazing husband that loves me andtreats me well, my first home and63400:43:45.199 --> 00:43:50.519a new baby on the way.I think about you often and all of63500:43:50.639 --> 00:43:54.639you and am so grateful for everythingyou do. You all changed my life63600:43:54.949 --> 00:44:00.630more than you could ever know.Thank you, Mary Christmas. Amen.63700:44:00.869 --> 00:44:07.070Yeah, so that leads to anotherreally important principle, to stay connected,63800:44:07.510 --> 00:44:13.500stay connected, stay connected with sea. Yeah, absolutely, and some of63900:44:13.539 --> 00:44:15.699these women that maybe you want tostay connected with, maybe they don't want64000:44:15.699 --> 00:44:20.260to stay connected with you and youknow you don't want to be annoying,64100:44:20.300 --> 00:44:23.849you don't want to be a pestto them, but I would every once64200:44:23.889 --> 00:44:27.929in a while, if you canshoot him over an email. I know64300:44:28.010 --> 00:44:30.329you stay connected with all of theseMOMS that will allow you to, let's64400:44:30.329 --> 00:44:35.289say, block your email right.Yeah, and they're able to reach back64500:44:35.329 --> 00:44:37.369out of you. It's three yearslater she reaches back out of you with64600:44:37.409 --> 00:44:40.440this encouraging word just said. Itwas an encouragement to all of us.64700:44:40.519 --> 00:44:44.719She was very careful to say youall. She knew it was not me,64800:44:45.039 --> 00:44:47.440it was not it there. Wehad a whole team of people and64900:44:47.920 --> 00:44:55.190she just was she was so grateful. So I responded just tearfully and joyfully65000:44:55.829 --> 00:45:00.829and and asked her some questions aboutwhat had transpired over those three years.65100:45:01.510 --> 00:45:06.469She said that she had actually triedto follow God. She had tailspind then65200:45:06.550 --> 00:45:10.139she had tried to follow God andhad come full circle. She came around65300:45:10.340 --> 00:45:15.099to a point where she understood histiming and provision was perfect. He was65400:45:15.179 --> 00:45:20.460always there as he was rebuilding herlife from that just bottom pit low.65500:45:21.300 --> 00:45:24.809She could see miracles in retrospect.She as she's going through it, she65600:45:24.929 --> 00:45:30.610could not. All she could seewas the pain. But she's rebuilding her65700:45:30.650 --> 00:45:34.889life. She sees God guiding herand she's the word refining her. Or65800:45:35.050 --> 00:45:38.280even with the death of her twins. I don't think she was saying God65900:45:38.599 --> 00:45:45.199took the twins, but that heused that to refine and prepare her for66000:45:45.320 --> 00:45:50.510just what he had in store forher, that his plan and purpose was66100:45:50.829 --> 00:45:59.150ultimately perfectly enacted revealed, and andthe faith that she had come to when66200:45:59.190 --> 00:46:02.710she met US had kindled and growneven in the midst of all of that66300:46:02.869 --> 00:46:07.260backsliding and despair. And that's soimportant because we sometimes give up on them.66400:46:07.300 --> 00:46:12.059Yeah too, because we think,look at how far they fallen from66500:46:12.099 --> 00:46:15.380where we gave them everything. Whatare they what are they doing? Falling66600:46:15.420 --> 00:46:19.050back into that slimy pit they camefrom? That's not the end of the66700:46:19.170 --> 00:46:22.929story. Yeah, yeah, andthat leads us to the next principle as66800:46:22.010 --> 00:46:27.050we start rapping this thing up.Yeah, is never give up. Yeah,66900:46:27.650 --> 00:46:32.039just because mom that you've connected with, or even you've poured into on67000:46:32.159 --> 00:46:37.159the sidewalk and she walks into theabortion center, never give up. It's67100:46:37.199 --> 00:46:39.440not our job to change their hearts. It's not our job. We're supposed67200:46:39.440 --> 00:46:43.840to disciple those who turned to theLord and it is our job to disciple67300:46:43.960 --> 00:46:46.039them and to sow the word ofGod into them as much as we're able67400:46:46.079 --> 00:46:49.949to, but we literally can't changetheir hearts and make them do the right67500:46:49.989 --> 00:46:52.150thing. But we should never giveup. Never give up hope for these67600:46:52.230 --> 00:46:55.710MOMS. Never give up hope thatthat baby can be saved. That woman67700:46:55.710 --> 00:46:59.590has walked into that abortion center andyou're tempted to just say, well,67800:46:59.710 --> 00:47:01.900she's had the abortion. We've hadso many testimonies of women that have chosen67900:47:02.099 --> 00:47:06.659life after they talked to us,they went into the abortion center and then68000:47:06.699 --> 00:47:09.579they left. Not Haven't told usthat they chose life, and so situations68100:47:09.659 --> 00:47:14.300like that just encourage me. Situationslike her situation where she follows up with68200:47:14.380 --> 00:47:17.969you three years later. Never giveup, never feel like a failure just68300:47:19.050 --> 00:47:21.889because it didn't turn out like youthought it would or like you thought it68400:47:21.929 --> 00:47:24.409should. Yeah, because we wereall devastated. So after she shared all68500:47:24.489 --> 00:47:30.039of that with me, I askedher if she remembered Elijah, and she68600:47:30.159 --> 00:47:35.079would. She said of course,she would never forget Elijah, very very68700:47:35.159 --> 00:47:39.320important Yan in her life. AndI hesitated to tell her what was new68800:47:39.400 --> 00:47:44.159with Elisha because I didn't want tobring her pain. But Elijah, he68900:47:44.280 --> 00:47:47.110has a ten month old baby andhis wife is pregnant with twins. Yeah,69000:47:47.150 --> 00:47:50.469and I thought, AH, shouldI tell her that? And in69100:47:50.550 --> 00:47:54.909the end I felt like I should. So I told her and and she69200:47:55.070 --> 00:48:00.300said Ah, Karas said, tellhim congratulations. I bet he is a69300:48:00.579 --> 00:48:06.059great dad. So if there isany sorrow over the sad memory of her69400:48:06.059 --> 00:48:10.820twin, she didn't express it.She just expressed joy for Elijah and now69500:48:10.980 --> 00:48:15.050that she realized God had always beenwith her and had always been guiding her,69600:48:15.170 --> 00:48:17.849she didn't have any bitterness. Shedidn't. It should at least.69700:48:17.849 --> 00:48:24.289She certainly didn't express it and andhe knew what was best and she trusted69800:48:24.409 --> 00:48:29.920him. And and I told herElijah is still wearing his high top convers69900:48:30.039 --> 00:48:36.239sneakers and something severy door never change. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and70000:48:36.360 --> 00:48:40.199so just to wrap this thing upwith, our final point is rejoice in70100:48:40.239 --> 00:48:43.989the victories that God allows us tobe a part of. It is such70200:48:44.030 --> 00:48:47.110a perfect we were talking the otherday and that ultrasound we shared it on70300:48:47.269 --> 00:48:52.190social media, ultrasound image of alittle baby that was saved from abortion right70400:48:52.190 --> 00:48:55.139here that that day that we werejust we were talking about some things and70500:48:55.619 --> 00:49:00.619I was just rejoicing in not justthat a baby was say it an't it70600:49:00.780 --> 00:49:02.619just to minimize that? Praise God, a baby will save, but that70700:49:02.739 --> 00:49:06.820the Lord lets us get to bea part of this. Yes, pretty70800:49:06.820 --> 00:49:10.010amazing. So we should rejoice thatthe Lord is gracious to allow us to70900:49:10.050 --> 00:49:13.650be a part of what he's doing. He does the baby save and he71000:49:13.769 --> 00:49:15.570does the changing of the hearts andall of that stuff. That's all his71100:49:15.769 --> 00:49:21.130work, but he lets us beco laborers with him and we need to71200:49:21.210 --> 00:49:25.159rejoice over that, not just rejoicein our with ourselves, with our families,71300:49:25.199 --> 00:49:29.960with our ministry partners and all ofthat stuff. But rejoice with the71400:49:30.039 --> 00:49:34.440moms that choose life, like youwere rejoicing with Kara over that decision and71500:49:34.639 --> 00:49:38.349over initially that decision for life,but even when she lost the baby and71600:49:38.349 --> 00:49:43.349ultimately she falls up with you threeyears later what the Lord is done in71700:49:43.469 --> 00:49:46.389her life, how, even inthe midst of that tragedy, that God71800:49:46.389 --> 00:49:50.269has done an amazing work in herheart. For her to be able to71900:49:50.429 --> 00:49:55.340say that God use that to refineher is an amazing state, pretty amazing.72000:49:55.460 --> 00:50:00.340That shows you that those seats thathad been planted truly had taken really72100:50:00.380 --> 00:50:05.219yeah, absolutely, yeah. Well, Guy's, we hope this has been72200:50:05.260 --> 00:50:07.130a blessing you guys, as weshared through this story and shared some of72300:50:07.210 --> 00:50:13.170the principles that that we employed andthat we even learned in the midst of72400:50:13.210 --> 00:50:15.449this story. We hope to beable to share more stories of hard cases72500:50:15.730 --> 00:50:20.329to help equip you guys that.We would certainly appreciate if you guys would72600:50:20.369 --> 00:50:22.480reach out to us. Maybe there'ssome questions that you have about this story,72700:50:22.599 --> 00:50:27.719some of the things that we sharedhere, some clarifying questions that you72800:50:27.800 --> 00:50:30.679have, maybe again, even someepisodes, some subjects you want us to72900:50:30.719 --> 00:50:34.519cover. We'd certainly love to dothat. We'd love to hear from you.73000:50:34.800 --> 00:50:37.389So you can reach out to meat Daniel at Love Life Dot Org.73100:50:37.710 --> 00:50:39.670You can reach out to her Vickyat Love Life Dot Org. But73200:50:39.750 --> 00:50:52.460until next time, God bless ourlove for love. Give me our love73300:50:52.699 --> 00:51:06.090for gratitude. I know it willcost me my life. Nothing's too precious,73400:51:06.409 --> 00:51:07.769and some that you