Hard Cases: A Rape Victim, Addicted to Drugs, and Deeply Depressed

WEBVTT100:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.400I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me, Lord.200:00:06.879 --> 00:00:10.949I welcome to the Gospel Center prolife podcast. In this episode we're300:00:10.990 --> 00:00:13.990going to share a story of ayoung lady who was dealing with depression,400:00:14.390 --> 00:00:17.670a rape situation in drug addictions,who showed up at the abortion center.500:00:17.989 --> 00:00:20.870Going to share some principles of howwe deal with the situation. So stay600:00:20.949 --> 00:00:35.060tuned. I felt show Passi toutsyour home. Use Me. Love Hei700:00:35.100 --> 00:00:39.890there, welcome to the Gospel centeredpro life podcast. I'm here with Daniel800:00:40.090 --> 00:00:43.929Parks. What's up? Yeah,well, what's up? As we have900:00:44.049 --> 00:00:49.170another case study we've been kind ofthe past few podcast we have been doing1000:00:49.329 --> 00:00:54.759case studies of actual moms that wehave counseled, that we have met out1100:00:54.759 --> 00:00:59.880at the abortion center that we havefollowed often for years. This one I1200:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.469actually am still friends with. Istill write to her in this this case1300:01:03.790 --> 00:01:08.430probably I first met her three,four, maybe even five years ago at1400:01:08.590 --> 00:01:12.629at this point. But like manyof the women that we encounter, she1500:01:12.790 --> 00:01:19.180had multiple issues. YEA, soshe had. We kind of titled This1600:01:19.340 --> 00:01:25.540a Case Study of a woman withdepression, rape and drug addiction, and1700:01:26.780 --> 00:01:30.459those are not uncommon issues. Know, we the with the MOMS that that1800:01:30.579 --> 00:01:34.650we come into contact with. Right. Yeah, they don't always occur together,1900:01:34.810 --> 00:01:40.209but actually sometimes they do. Yeah, Yep, sometimes they do.2000:01:40.489 --> 00:01:45.569We the understanding is, and we'redealing with hard cases. There maybe one2100:01:46.730 --> 00:01:51.359kind of prominent issue that they've gotgoing on, but it can be interwoven2200:01:51.439 --> 00:01:53.920with a lot of other stuff,a lot of other struggles that tie into2300:01:53.959 --> 00:01:57.280that issue. Yeah, and that'sthe case here. Sure, and often2400:01:57.359 --> 00:02:04.310times that is not revealed on thefirst, yeah, time that you meet2500:02:04.349 --> 00:02:07.310them. A kind of comes outas you get to know them and then2600:02:07.590 --> 00:02:13.189you and I'm glad because I thinkwe would be unbelievably overwhelmed if we heard2700:02:13.430 --> 00:02:16.139every issue that they're facing. Theircomplex their people. Yeah, people are2800:02:16.180 --> 00:02:22.620complex, usually with complex issues,especially once sin enters into the equation,2900:02:22.860 --> 00:02:29.939things get really complex. Yeah,and hard. Yeah, absolutely. So3000:02:30.289 --> 00:02:34.289this young lady, we'll call herkate. All right, and we meet3100:02:34.289 --> 00:02:38.289Kate. She arrives with her motherto the abortion center. She went into3200:02:38.409 --> 00:02:42.969this center but was like many ofthe women in and out. The mom3300:02:43.810 --> 00:02:49.719was clearly abortion minded, clearly sidingtowards abortion, but she said that she3400:02:49.800 --> 00:02:57.560would support Kate in in whatever katedecide iided and kate was markedly non emotional,3500:02:57.919 --> 00:03:01.629flat affect. I could not readKate at all. Yeah, I3600:03:01.750 --> 00:03:05.870found out later, maybe why,some of the reasons why, but I3700:03:06.069 --> 00:03:09.990remember when I first met her thinkingthis something, something's wrong. Yeah,3800:03:10.030 --> 00:03:15.900but this girl. So she shetold me right away that she did not3900:03:16.020 --> 00:03:20.259believe in God. She did believein a higher power, but it was4000:03:20.340 --> 00:03:25.259a really new agey kind of funnylike didn't really understand at all. Yeah,4100:03:25.340 --> 00:03:30.449where she was coming from. Andshe was not interested in a discussion4200:03:30.490 --> 00:03:32.370of God. In other words,she didn't want to talk about God's kind4300:03:32.409 --> 00:03:36.849of told us I don't don't bringGod into this, I don't believe in4400:03:37.009 --> 00:03:45.240God. The he doesn't enter andinto my decision. She was not terribly4500:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.800interested even in a in a discussionof the resources and and as you know,4600:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.909we have three main areas we gointo. Yeah, God, resources4700:03:55.270 --> 00:03:59.310and then the humanity of the baby. So the first two things she's kind4800:03:59.310 --> 00:04:01.909of has shown no interest in.Yeah, the one thing that she did4900:04:02.110 --> 00:04:06.030show some interest in was the ultrasound. Yeah, well, that's a that's5000:04:06.030 --> 00:04:10.139a resource. So it is curious. Yeah, well, that's true.5100:04:10.219 --> 00:04:13.180It's a resource, but it andit also talks about the baby development.5200:04:13.340 --> 00:04:15.420She was interested. I think shewas surprised as some of the things we5300:04:15.540 --> 00:04:19.379were saying about baby development. Soit was only late, leader, like5400:04:19.500 --> 00:04:24.930I said in our introduction, thatI learned that there were many layers of5500:04:25.769 --> 00:04:30.050trauma, yeah, to this younglady, one of which was that she5600:04:30.370 --> 00:04:36.050the baby had been conceived in rapeand honestly, the total repression of emotion5700:04:36.209 --> 00:04:41.040should have been kind of a tipoffto me that there was probably some trauma,5800:04:41.160 --> 00:04:47.279some deep trauma. She did discussright away deep depression. That was,5900:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.959in fact, as I recall,the main reason that she was there6000:04:51.160 --> 00:04:56.430and the main reason the mother wasso concerned was that the baby would just6100:04:57.589 --> 00:05:01.310tip her deeper into depression, andit was a debilitating depression. Yeah,6200:05:03.949 --> 00:05:10.660her mother was very worried about whatthat child, which was not wanted and6300:05:10.860 --> 00:05:13.740not planned, was going to doto the mental health, yeah, of6400:05:14.180 --> 00:05:17.980her daughter. And as we continuein the discussion, we find out that6500:05:18.620 --> 00:05:25.050Kate was addicted to drugs and thatwas another big concern of the mother.6600:05:25.250 --> 00:05:28.930Yeah, absolutely. So what wasinteresting, though, she told us that6700:05:29.089 --> 00:05:33.689when she learned of the baby,which she didn't want, or so we6800:05:33.810 --> 00:05:40.040thought anyway, she stopped her druguse cold Turkey, and it was pretty6900:05:40.040 --> 00:05:43.839significant drug use. Yeah, andso it hadn't been long yet. It7000:05:44.040 --> 00:05:46.959had only been a week or two. She had not known for very long7100:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.310that she was pregnant, but inthat period of time she had stopped her7200:05:49.310 --> 00:05:54.990drug use, and so that wasa really important clue. Yeah, absolutely7300:05:55.149 --> 00:06:01.389to us. So I think thatwas kind of where the what we're presented7400:06:01.430 --> 00:06:05.019with, yeah, at this point. Yeah, and the first principle here,7500:06:05.220 --> 00:06:10.420because we have been doing in thepast couple of episodes where we shared7600:06:10.459 --> 00:06:15.019these case studies, is we've kindof ided principles and so I hope you7700:06:15.060 --> 00:06:16.939guys are taking notes and I hopethese principles are a blessing to you.7800:06:17.810 --> 00:06:21.089But the first principle is discern themajor issues. We want to get to7900:06:21.170 --> 00:06:25.329the bottom and when I talk toa mom that's coming to the abortion center,8000:06:25.410 --> 00:06:28.250I talk to a dad that's bringhis girlfriend there, one of the8100:06:28.290 --> 00:06:31.959first things I will say is whatbrought you here? Right, and sometimes8200:06:32.000 --> 00:06:35.720I find often it's like there's alot of stuff, as we talked about,8300:06:35.720 --> 00:06:40.279there's a lot of interwoven stuff,but right often times there's like one8400:06:40.560 --> 00:06:46.120major thing that, if that thingcould be removed, then they would consider8500:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.029keeping their babies. Matter of fact, I will try to get to that.8600:06:48.629 --> 00:06:51.310If there was one thing, I'llsay this sometimes, if there's one8700:06:51.389 --> 00:06:56.949thing that if you could just snapyour finger and it's taken care of and8800:06:57.189 --> 00:07:00.069that would help you to choose life, what would that one thing be?8900:07:00.670 --> 00:07:02.379Yeah, and do they often haveone thing? Do you find that the9000:07:02.459 --> 00:07:06.339Lanser that I find that there's typicallyone major thing in the forefront of their9100:07:06.379 --> 00:07:10.500mind. Now again, it's interwovenwith a bunch of other stuff. I'm9200:07:10.500 --> 00:07:13.220not pretending that, you know,there is a snap of the finger that9300:07:13.379 --> 00:07:15.019is going to take care of that, but I just want them to be9400:07:15.180 --> 00:07:19.329thinking about how actually that one thingthat's in their mind is not the end9500:07:19.329 --> 00:07:23.329of the world. Yeah, thatthey've experienced things like that in the past9600:07:23.569 --> 00:07:25.810and that the Lord has brought themthrough. They've been able to make it9700:07:25.970 --> 00:07:29.889through. Yeah, because the deviloperates in the realm of fear. Absolutely,9800:07:30.040 --> 00:07:32.120and when he can get you fearfulof the future because of this one9900:07:32.240 --> 00:07:38.040issue, whether it's relational or financialor whatever it might be, right,10000:07:38.560 --> 00:07:42.120the devil can really do people intodoing something that they'll regret in the future10100:07:42.319 --> 00:07:45.990if he can hold that fear ofroom. Yeah, yeah, and so10200:07:46.350 --> 00:07:48.430one of the things, though,this is not within the principles, but10300:07:48.509 --> 00:07:51.589I did want us to talk aboutand before we started this podcast we talked10400:07:51.629 --> 00:07:55.670a little bit about this too.Maybe even we would do a whole podcast10500:07:55.750 --> 00:07:59.139about this, because this is apretty common issue. In the midst of10600:07:59.220 --> 00:08:01.899just a little bit that you've shared, initially kate was like, I don't10700:08:01.899 --> 00:08:05.660want to talk about God, youdon't mention God, don't mention religious stuff,10800:08:07.579 --> 00:08:11.459and so the question is kind ofa rabbit trail. How do you10900:08:11.540 --> 00:08:13.610deal with that? Right? Doyou mention the Lord? Do you leave11000:08:13.689 --> 00:08:20.009got out of the equation, ordo you just keep bringing the truth of11100:08:20.089 --> 00:08:22.850who God is into the equation?When? How do you hand that sort11200:08:22.850 --> 00:08:28.839of well, I'll tell you,when someone is very adamant about anything like11300:08:28.040 --> 00:08:33.879don't talk about God, don't mentionmy boyfriend, whatever, I usually for11400:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.960that moment on or it, becauseI'm just going to come up against a11500:08:39.039 --> 00:08:41.789closed door that when they're that Adamand I know that they're just going to11600:08:41.990 --> 00:08:48.909slam the discussion to a halt.And so I think I will mention God.11700:08:48.950 --> 00:08:52.789I will always mention God. Ican't not mention God. That is11800:08:52.870 --> 00:08:58.460it's where Gospel focused, ministry,but also just God, is such an11900:08:58.500 --> 00:09:03.940integral part of every belief system insideof me. I can't possibly guide and12000:09:05.100 --> 00:09:09.370counsel someone without bringing that up.Yeah, but if they say don't mention12100:09:09.570 --> 00:09:13.809God, then I then I thinkin the back of my mind I'm thinking,12200:09:13.929 --> 00:09:16.490okay, I'm going to have tobring him up at an opportune time.12300:09:16.490 --> 00:09:22.250I'm off and praying Lord Open thatdoor when you know, when you12400:09:22.370 --> 00:09:26.799can, when it would be theperfect timing. And I'll go into other12500:09:26.080 --> 00:09:31.840areas. So with her, Iknew right away that just mentioning the science12600:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.200and the development of the baby,she was interested in seeing the baby.12700:09:35.399 --> 00:09:37.399Yeah, and that was a bigclue to me. There she wants to12800:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.950know how developed that baby is.She she's someone that might respond to that,12900:09:41.149 --> 00:09:46.909and that's where I went initially.Yeah, and God always opens the13000:09:46.950 --> 00:09:52.309door. That is what I havefound. And if you just don't cause13100:09:52.509 --> 00:09:56.899immediate antagonist antagonism by saying sorry,God, talk about God. Yeah,13200:09:58.379 --> 00:10:03.899but you like, let her kindof leads you to where God almost naturally13300:10:03.980 --> 00:10:09.049comes then into the discus. Ishould she might be more willing to hear,13400:10:09.370 --> 00:10:11.450and indeed that it. That isactually what did happen in that case.13500:10:11.490 --> 00:10:16.529Yeah, but but that's generally,yeah, ideal with it. Yeah,13600:10:16.570 --> 00:10:20.690and I've encountered these situations, andyou guys that are listening, I'm13700:10:20.730 --> 00:10:22.559sure if you've been on the sidewalksfor any amount of time, you've encountered13800:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.279these situations where people are saying,yeah, I'll talk you, I just13900:10:26.320 --> 00:10:30.559don't want to talk about any ofthat God's stuff. And typically I find14000:10:30.600 --> 00:10:35.750that those statements come out of aplace of anger with God or hurt because14100:10:35.750 --> 00:10:39.789they were raised in church or orwhatever it might be. And so it's14200:10:39.830 --> 00:10:41.070really not helpful. I mean,if you want to just go ahead and14300:10:41.110 --> 00:10:45.590shut the whole conversation down, thenjust, you know, go ahead and14400:10:45.710 --> 00:10:48.710go into a gospel presentation. Imean, God could use it for sure,14500:10:50.220 --> 00:10:52.539but I find, like you said, it's just not helpful. If14600:10:52.539 --> 00:10:54.700they told you to stop talking aboutit, or they've told you to stop14700:10:54.740 --> 00:11:00.419talking about the boyfriend that God arepregnant. Yeah, you just table that.14800:11:00.860 --> 00:11:03.820Yeah, let the Lord Open Up, you know, the conversation.14900:11:03.019 --> 00:11:07.769Because one of the things I willsay, and this has been a couple15000:11:07.809 --> 00:11:09.730of conversations. I just that cometo mind for me with, mostly with15100:11:09.809 --> 00:11:13.129the men coming to the abortion.So they say, you know, don't15200:11:13.330 --> 00:11:16.090talk about God, I will.I will say, well, listen,15300:11:16.129 --> 00:11:20.360I'll do the best I can tohonor that request. But just please know15400:11:20.440 --> 00:11:24.879I'm a Christian, I love God. He's changed my life and for me15500:11:24.039 --> 00:11:26.759not to talk about him as likefor me not to talk about my wife15600:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.720or my kids, because he ismy life and he's part of who I15700:11:30.799 --> 00:11:33.750am. So if I mentioned theLord, it's not because I'm not honoring15800:11:33.789 --> 00:11:37.870your request, just because it's sonatural for me to talk about the God15900:11:37.870 --> 00:11:41.190who's changed my life. And thenI'll jump into so I want to make16000:11:41.230 --> 00:11:46.389sure because what'll happen is they're kindof, in one sense, looking for16100:11:46.429 --> 00:11:48.139a reason of offense, right,they're looking for a reason to shut the16200:11:48.220 --> 00:11:52.860conversation down. So if you don'thonor their requests, that's reason to shut16300:11:52.940 --> 00:11:54.500the conversation down and they can,they can write you off. Right.16400:11:56.139 --> 00:11:58.740You don't want to give them that, but also you don't want to be16500:11:58.860 --> 00:12:01.289disingenuous. Right. So in reality, for me, and I know for16600:12:01.370 --> 00:12:05.889you too, if it wasn't forGod, then I would it even be16700:12:05.129 --> 00:12:09.889out at the abortion center. Right. I'm not fighting this, this battle,16800:12:09.409 --> 00:12:15.649based on some humanitarian effort or motivation. You know, my motivation is16900:12:15.840 --> 00:12:20.000because Jesus Christ told me to givea voice to the voices, and so17000:12:20.039 --> 00:12:22.360it would be really disingenuous for menot to mention God. But again,17100:12:22.360 --> 00:12:26.960I want to be intentional that Iclearly communicate. If I mentioned the Lord,17200:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.269it's not because I just want tooffend you, it's just because it's17300:12:30.549 --> 00:12:33.110second nature, first nature to me. Yeah, really to mention the Lord,17400:12:33.549 --> 00:12:39.029but then I will go right intothe scientific stuff. I really I'll17500:12:39.070 --> 00:12:45.379go right into describing fetal development,and those are powerful things that we can17600:12:45.419 --> 00:12:48.659bring up and you know, thescience is on our side as it pertains17700:12:48.700 --> 00:12:50.500to life in the womb. Soyeah, you can. You got all17800:12:50.539 --> 00:12:54.580kinds of stuff to talk about.As far as that get. Yeah,17900:12:54.740 --> 00:12:58.889there was a guy out at theabortion center today WHO said, I don't18000:12:58.889 --> 00:13:01.970believe in God, and he believedin a higher power, but he said,18100:13:01.970 --> 00:13:05.250I don't believe in God, butI agree with you that abortion is18200:13:05.409 --> 00:13:09.970wrong, and I said why?Yeah, and and that led to him.18300:13:09.210 --> 00:13:13.720He really couldn't. You can't saya lot of the moral questions of18400:13:13.840 --> 00:13:20.159why, without in some way indicatingthere is a standard and that that standard18500:13:20.200 --> 00:13:26.320has to have come from someone absolutely, and so you can lead into a18600:13:26.440 --> 00:13:30.710god discussion kind of through the backdoor like that by asking questions. But18700:13:31.909 --> 00:13:35.350but yeah, in general I agreewith you. It's usually not very productive,18800:13:35.350 --> 00:13:39.590yeah, for you to slam Goddown their throat when they really are18900:13:39.669 --> 00:13:43.019not ready to hear God. And, like you said, the Lord will19000:13:43.100 --> 00:13:46.419open up those opportunities and I'm sureas we share in this story, you19100:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.620guys will hear that that was abit of a rabbit trail from what we're19200:13:50.659 --> 00:13:52.220talking about, but I think it'sa helpful rabbit trail for us and again19300:13:52.259 --> 00:13:56.210we might do a whole podcast aboutthat subject, tackle that subject. But19400:13:56.330 --> 00:14:01.009our first principle here is again discernthe major issues, try to figure out19500:14:01.049 --> 00:14:05.009what brought them there, the thingsthat are going on. In her case,19600:14:05.529 --> 00:14:09.399there's the depression from the rape situationand then drug addiction. Right,19700:14:09.679 --> 00:14:13.720all three, all three big ones. Fortunately, we have resources for all19800:14:13.840 --> 00:14:18.759three of those and I did actuallybring those upright away. But, as19900:14:18.960 --> 00:14:24.149is often the case, as thestory progresses, I learned that there is20000:14:24.190 --> 00:14:31.350a whole lot more to the storythat there is significant dysfunction in the family,20100:14:31.710 --> 00:14:35.149which is not unusual, and inthe people that we that we deal20200:14:35.230 --> 00:14:39.259with. So she was, likeI said, very flat affect, very20300:14:39.340 --> 00:14:46.100non emotional. But when she sawthe baby on the ultrasound, she said20400:14:46.179 --> 00:14:50.019that abortion would not be the bestchoice right away, right away, and20500:14:50.100 --> 00:14:52.850they was the first flicker of emotion. There wasn't a lot, but there20600:14:54.009 --> 00:14:56.490was some emotion on her face asshe first sees that heartbeat, sees the20700:14:56.570 --> 00:15:01.889baby moving. The mother, onthe other hand, who had said she20800:15:01.929 --> 00:15:05.970would honor Kate's choice, is hoveringover Kate and Ann was still say it.20900:15:07.090 --> 00:15:11.279was making comments like well, givenyour depression, this would not be21000:15:11.440 --> 00:15:13.720the best choice. Can you imaginewhat would happen if you had to care21100:15:13.759 --> 00:15:20.360for a baby? And so katedid not even seem to be listening to21200:15:20.399 --> 00:15:30.110the mother and as her mother balkedat the idea of letting this baby live,21300:15:30.950 --> 00:15:37.940Kate grew even less and less obviouslylistening to her mother. She is21400:15:39.059 --> 00:15:43.419clearly tuning her mother, her motherout, so that to leave having chosen21500:15:43.539 --> 00:15:48.419life. We know it's a verytenuous choice. I had said I would21600:15:48.419 --> 00:15:52.450be in touch. I don't thinkI did bring God up much in other21700:15:52.570 --> 00:15:56.450than saying things like what a miraclethis life was, as we're looking at21800:15:56.009 --> 00:16:04.279the ultrasound, but at that timein in our ministry we didn't have a21900:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.720mentorship program yet. So I wasthe one that was going to be following22000:16:07.759 --> 00:16:12.000up with Kate and I find outover the next few days kate desperately wants22100:16:12.120 --> 00:16:17.879to to leave her home, thather mother was very controlling and I had22200:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.669seen that. So this was nosurprise to me when she said that.22300:16:22.149 --> 00:16:26.429But then she said that her motherhad threatened her, had actually tried to22400:16:26.629 --> 00:16:33.980choke her following the time on theultrasound with us, and Kate even had22500:16:33.340 --> 00:16:37.820of recording of that, not avideo but an audio recording, and she22600:16:37.980 --> 00:16:45.860played it for me well, andit was scary. So I thought Kate22700:16:47.059 --> 00:16:52.570was probably in imminent danger of literallybeing killed by her mother and I urged22800:16:52.690 --> 00:16:59.169her to call the police. Shedid, and actually the way that I22900:17:00.049 --> 00:17:03.399got her to do that was Isaid, look, I will come to23000:17:03.559 --> 00:17:06.400your house, I will come bewith you, but you need to call23100:17:06.480 --> 00:17:10.720the police. I would leave thehouse and and I think you how to23200:17:10.759 --> 00:17:12.680call the police. So in retrospectwe can talk about. Was that a23300:17:12.759 --> 00:17:17.549good idea? Once again, Vickiis leaping to go. Yeah, with23400:17:18.029 --> 00:17:23.990a potentially violent Um parent, butthat is that is what what I did.23500:17:25.670 --> 00:17:33.339And the policeman met US in frontof Kate's house and they went in,23600:17:33.660 --> 00:17:37.779talked with the parents. They cameback out and actually told Kate,23700:17:37.819 --> 00:17:41.700you know, your parents don't wantyou to leave because and they're saying,23800:17:41.740 --> 00:17:45.769well, we'll help get you toa safe house, similar to our last23900:17:45.809 --> 00:17:48.650story. Yeah, the safe housewas one that Kate had already found.24000:17:48.650 --> 00:17:53.089It was actually the boyfriend's family.Okay, the boyfriend that I don't yet24100:17:53.210 --> 00:17:57.170know she is going to later accuseof rape. Good shows you kind of24200:17:57.250 --> 00:18:04.960the crazy, just convoluted mess,tangled mess in this girl's life. Yeah,24300:18:06.200 --> 00:18:11.039but so the the policeman come outand say, your parents are telling24400:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.910us they don't want you to leave. They really they sound like I've dealt24500:18:15.910 --> 00:18:18.990with a lot of, you know, disabled families, and he was saying,24600:18:18.430 --> 00:18:22.029I really think your parents really dolove you, they don't want you24700:18:22.069 --> 00:18:25.269to leave. Maybe you should considerjust staying. And she said no,24800:18:25.589 --> 00:18:30.339she could not return, and soI help her gather her things, which24900:18:30.420 --> 00:18:34.259the policeman brought out I think hewent in with her to stand guard as25000:18:34.339 --> 00:18:40.900she gathers things and I helped bringher over to the boyfriend's family. Okay,25100:18:41.140 --> 00:18:45.009where she moves in, or atleast temporarily, with my help bring25200:18:45.130 --> 00:18:49.089this stuff over in, that familyseemed wonderful. Yeah, on on the25300:18:49.210 --> 00:18:53.609surface they seemed. They seemed wonderful. They took my name and number,25400:18:53.970 --> 00:19:00.440thanked me for bringing her there.They seem to support that Kate's parents were25500:19:00.480 --> 00:19:08.240nuts and she needed to be outof that situation. And and only a25600:19:08.400 --> 00:19:15.589couple weeks later I get a callfrom this host family that Kate is like.25700:19:15.990 --> 00:19:22.109There's all kinds of problems with katethat they are discovering, and once25800:19:22.190 --> 00:19:26.619again I'm having second thoughts about whatdid I just do? Yeah, did25900:19:26.660 --> 00:19:33.259I did? I do the rate, the right thing. She had a26000:19:33.460 --> 00:19:38.250relationship with that father still and wentthrough periods of rage when the father of26100:19:38.369 --> 00:19:45.210the baby would apparently reject her.And so I'm beginning to she tells me26200:19:45.329 --> 00:19:48.170that the father had raped her again. That came out a little bit later,26300:19:48.329 --> 00:19:52.960and then I'm beginning to doubt everythingkate is saying. Yeah, because26400:19:53.160 --> 00:19:57.559there's the family that she is justmoved into is saying our son is not26500:19:57.680 --> 00:20:03.599a rapist. This is not true, but there are significant problems. Yea26600:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.309Kate. Yeah. And the nextprinciple is, and this is something always26700:20:07.309 --> 00:20:10.670keeping the back of your mind whenyou're dealing with these hard cases, is26800:20:11.109 --> 00:20:15.789you rarely hear the whole story.Yeah, when you first encounter these MOMS,26900:20:15.910 --> 00:20:18.630that's right, you'll hear maybe bitsand pieces, maybe you'll hear the27000:20:18.750 --> 00:20:23.579kind of surface level of what's goingon, but there's always something going on,27100:20:23.900 --> 00:20:29.420something deeper going on, whatever thatsituation might be, even in hard27200:20:29.500 --> 00:20:33.299cases where there's a health issue.Sometimes, if you dig a little deep27300:20:33.339 --> 00:20:37.490or little deeper, you'll find thatmaybe you're not getting the whole story right.27400:20:38.569 --> 00:20:41.410But that doesn't mean you just writethem off and think they're lying,27500:20:41.730 --> 00:20:45.410because we can be tempted because we'vebeen lowed too so many times out there27600:20:45.450 --> 00:20:48.930right and minister into these moms andeven after the fact, as we're ministering27700:20:48.970 --> 00:20:53.279to him an ongoing basis, wecan get jaded and think they're just always27800:20:53.319 --> 00:20:56.279lying. Just write them off.It's got to take what they what they27900:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.720say, for what it is andjust move forward as best we can to28000:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.750lay out a plan for them.But yet remember, you don't always get28100:21:04.150 --> 00:21:07.950you rarely actually get the whole story. Yeah, and knowing that, you28200:21:08.029 --> 00:21:11.549know, in retrospect, as I'mlooking at this whole thing, I'm thinking,28300:21:11.750 --> 00:21:15.349what was I thinking? You know, why did I get involved in28400:21:15.430 --> 00:21:18.420that? I should have told hercall the police, and then I should28500:21:18.420 --> 00:21:23.019have stepped out. I think thatthere there are sometimes when we overextend ourselves28600:21:23.099 --> 00:21:27.099and in retrospect, I really feellike that was over extending myself, because28700:21:27.259 --> 00:21:33.410now I'm in a situation that Iprobably I had no, I didn't have28800:21:33.490 --> 00:21:36.650the whole picture. I didn't knowwho is lying. Now there's the parents28900:21:36.650 --> 00:21:40.170are saying one thing, Kate sayingone thing, the family of the father29000:21:40.650 --> 00:21:44.210of the baby is saying another thing. And who am I to try and29100:21:44.369 --> 00:21:47.359figure out? Yeah, what?So, in the midst of all this29200:21:47.519 --> 00:21:52.559terrible struggle, Kate is now prettydistraught because she is recognizing no matter where29300:21:52.559 --> 00:21:57.400she goes, trouble follows and she'sbeginning to have she I think, even29400:21:57.440 --> 00:22:02.470said something like what, is theresomething wrong with me? Yeah, what?29500:22:02.710 --> 00:22:07.589And and that's the perfect opening tothe Gospel. Yes, there is29600:22:07.829 --> 00:22:11.630something wrong with you. There's somethingwrong with every human being and it's sin.29700:22:12.069 --> 00:22:15.819Yeah, and and since separates usfrom God and when we follow those29800:22:17.299 --> 00:22:23.660sinful choices they only lead to destruction. So I begin sharing the Gospel and29900:22:23.779 --> 00:22:27.180continue to share the gospel over theover the next couple few weeks, I30000:22:27.259 --> 00:22:33.650guess, and she's she was moreand more willing to to hear it and30100:22:34.170 --> 00:22:37.609one of the most helpful resources thatwe offer. Now she's like, I30200:22:37.769 --> 00:22:42.690don't even remember honestly where she endedup, if she was back in the30300:22:42.849 --> 00:22:47.680parents house, if which she waswith a new friend house. I think30400:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.359there was another interim housing. Shedid finally returned to the Parents House with30500:22:53.359 --> 00:23:00.029with the police and DSS, maybeeven had stepped in. But at that30600:23:00.230 --> 00:23:03.670point, as she returns to herParents House and I'm saying what are you30700:23:03.750 --> 00:23:06.630doing? I thought your mom triedto choke you, she had it.30800:23:06.910 --> 00:23:11.900She had kind of doctored and editedthat choke recording. Well, so even30900:23:11.980 --> 00:23:19.099that was was a bit of alie. But during the baby shower where31000:23:19.500 --> 00:23:25.619Sheryl Chandler of truth and mercy ministriescomes in. We do the baby shower31100:23:25.779 --> 00:23:30.609at Kate's house and the mother's thereand the the overbearing, hovering control of31200:23:30.730 --> 00:23:38.009the mother was obvious and we reallybegan to understand poor kate's situation. She31300:23:38.170 --> 00:23:42.960couldn't even say I like this dressfor the baby. Well, was a31400:23:44.039 --> 00:23:48.759boy. I like this pair ofpants, without the mother countering it with31500:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.400something. Yeah. So there wasnot a single choice or thought that Kate31600:23:52.559 --> 00:23:57.190was really allowed to have and Iunderstood then the dynamics of why she felt31700:23:57.230 --> 00:24:04.509the need to to escape that.And in the baby shower Sheryl always shares31800:24:04.589 --> 00:24:07.829the Gospel beautifully. We always takethem. I'm out. We took the31900:24:08.069 --> 00:24:11.700we took kate out alone without themother. That was that was hard,32000:24:12.059 --> 00:24:17.940getting the mother to let us dothat, share the Gospel in its entirety,32100:24:18.420 --> 00:24:22.619both of us. And Kate isso broken at this point, having32200:24:22.859 --> 00:24:30.289seen and having had us see whather mother was truly like. That she32300:24:30.450 --> 00:24:36.170said she she wanted to ask Ususto be her lord and she she shared.32400:24:36.210 --> 00:24:41.039That was when she shared the thedrug problem and just everything that poured32500:24:41.119 --> 00:24:45.119out and all the lies, andwe really felt this was a very sincere32600:24:45.359 --> 00:24:51.599pouring out a heart towards wanting tosubmit her life to the Lord. So32700:24:52.069 --> 00:24:56.829we prayed. We prayed with her. She asked him to take control of32800:24:56.950 --> 00:25:00.990her life and and we're rejoicing inthe middle of I think it was at32900:25:00.029 --> 00:25:03.589Denny's yester and see, the Lordopened up the opportunity, right. She33000:25:03.670 --> 00:25:07.180didn't want to talk about God.That's what it to just leave that religious33100:25:07.259 --> 00:25:11.059quote, religious talk on the table, right. But then the Lord opens33200:25:11.099 --> 00:25:15.380of the door, as you continuewith discipleship and follow up with her and33300:25:15.579 --> 00:25:22.049and so this third principles, whentheir world falls apart, yeah, God33400:25:22.130 --> 00:25:23.650can step in. You know,it's not until we come to the end33500:25:23.650 --> 00:25:27.410of ourselves until we can begin withthe Lord. And it took her coming33600:25:27.450 --> 00:25:30.170to the end of herself before shewas open to hear about the things of33700:25:30.289 --> 00:25:36.039God, and God was plowing thesoil of her heart. Yeah, through33800:25:36.240 --> 00:25:40.519the situation. She was the onethat said to me, and Cheryl can't.33900:25:40.599 --> 00:25:42.599Can I ask him to be LordRight now? Because Cheryl's philosophy is34000:25:42.680 --> 00:25:47.839kind of don't. Don't really extendan invitation. She doesn't want to want34100:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.470them to feel that they should askJesus to be their Lord because we've given34200:25:51.470 --> 00:25:53.230them, you know, a housefull of gifts. Sure, and that's34300:25:53.269 --> 00:25:57.190a really, very important, yeah, thing to be concerned about. But34400:25:57.390 --> 00:26:00.349this girl was begging. I Iwant test. How do I do it?34500:26:00.509 --> 00:26:03.269When can I do it? CanI do it now? Yeah,34600:26:03.309 --> 00:26:06.819and so you know, you knowI didn't. We didn't say no,34700:26:07.019 --> 00:26:11.180we said yes, yes, shecan, and she repented of many many34800:26:11.220 --> 00:26:15.059since that's how he had a senseof what was truly going on in her34900:26:15.140 --> 00:26:19.009life. Yeah, that's amazing.Yeah, it was pretty awesome. So35000:26:19.690 --> 00:26:26.410kind of the end of this wholestory. Then she remains with her parents.35100:26:26.529 --> 00:26:30.450She's now a new believer. Herson is born and she was just35200:26:32.289 --> 00:26:37.079smitten. She remained living with themom for the next three years, I35300:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.319think, and stayed in touch withme. I stayed in touch with her35400:26:40.480 --> 00:26:44.319and she was doing really well.She finished her college education, she began35500:26:44.559 --> 00:26:51.029working. She ended up reconciling,not it relationship with the father of the35600:26:51.109 --> 00:26:57.109their son, but they they coparented and they had a good relationship in35700:26:57.230 --> 00:27:03.019co parenting and she admitted he shockedher and became a good father. Yes,35800:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.500a good father. The other familywere now had a good relationship with35900:27:07.740 --> 00:27:14.220Kate. She was saving money forher own apartment and during that time,36000:27:14.539 --> 00:27:21.250what is really often happens, shethen began to counsel other young ladies,36100:27:21.289 --> 00:27:25.809her friends in similar situations to whatshe had been in and referred them to36200:27:25.970 --> 00:27:30.880us and we helped her friends,chiefs, life and such came full circle.36300:27:32.119 --> 00:27:36.960Yeah, yeah, yeah, andso what you guys remember in all36400:27:37.039 --> 00:27:42.160of these stories and what we're sharingis some pretty miraculous, I would say36500:27:42.279 --> 00:27:48.390one hundred and eighty degree turnarounds.Didn't happen immediately. This was so over36600:27:48.430 --> 00:27:52.150a period of this is loving years. Yeah, really years. But remember,36700:27:52.509 --> 00:27:56.670miracles do happen. Yeah, Godcan work miracles. When God changes36800:27:56.710 --> 00:28:00.140a human heart, that's a miracle. When a mom who was headed into36900:28:00.140 --> 00:28:04.059an abortion center turns around and reconsiderstaking the life of her baby, that's37000:28:04.099 --> 00:28:07.579a miracle. When a mom ordad or anyone that we encounter, when37100:28:07.619 --> 00:28:11.380we present the Gospel to him andtheir need for a savior, when their37200:28:11.460 --> 00:28:15.809heart is turned to the Lord,that's a miracle. Yeah, when circumstances37300:28:15.890 --> 00:28:19.569that seem impossible and in from aworldly perspective, are impossible. I know37400:28:19.650 --> 00:28:22.690you and I both and all ofour counselors, I think, would attest37500:28:22.769 --> 00:28:25.970it to this. If you've beenon the side while you would attest to37600:28:26.049 --> 00:28:30.359this when you've encountered situations where you'rescratching your head and your thinking. I37700:28:30.519 --> 00:28:33.359mean, I don't have a cluehow to remedy this situation. Yeah,37800:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.119and you look to the Lord andyou see God work it out. That's37900:28:37.160 --> 00:28:41.670a miracle. Yeah. So,guys, I think we probably this is38000:28:41.750 --> 00:28:45.109probably a principle and every one ofthese stories that we share, it is38100:28:45.230 --> 00:28:48.910some it's some fastest proble the timethat we have to rely on the Lord.38200:28:48.910 --> 00:28:52.869Yes, when we ever get intoa mode of operation and where we38300:28:53.029 --> 00:28:56.619think we can do what we dobased on the science. Again, like38400:28:56.700 --> 00:29:00.660we started out, the sciences onour side as far as life beginning at38500:29:00.779 --> 00:29:04.500conception, the baby in a wombis a living thing. I mean ultrasound.38600:29:04.539 --> 00:29:08.740You can see the sciences on ourside. Resources, I mean,38700:29:08.859 --> 00:29:17.049goodness gracious, anything from like freedoctors to daycare, whatever you can think38800:29:17.049 --> 00:29:18.609of, housing, all of that. The resources are there, right,38900:29:18.930 --> 00:29:22.609there's there's all these good reasons,right, and there's all these good resources39000:29:22.730 --> 00:29:27.079and there's all these scientific stuff andwe should use that. I mean why39100:29:27.079 --> 00:29:32.160wouldn't we? But the just justfocus on those things and not bring God39200:29:32.200 --> 00:29:36.640into the equation and not acknowledge God'sability to turn a situation right side up39300:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.750would be the completely miss the mostpowerful aspect of who we are as believers39400:29:41.789 --> 00:29:45.349in Jesus and what we're called todo. We're not just called to bring39500:29:45.470 --> 00:29:48.670resources and scientific truth into the equation, we're called to bring the truth of39600:29:48.750 --> 00:29:52.539who God is into the equation,into the lives of these MOMS and these39700:29:52.619 --> 00:29:56.180babies, and see him do hishis work. Yeah, and I think39800:29:56.299 --> 00:30:03.619this is so encouraging because right now, politically, what's happening in our country,39900:30:03.660 --> 00:30:07.609it's easy to be discouraged. Iwas thinking just this morning, is40000:30:07.650 --> 00:30:12.369abortion ever going to now be outlawed? And then I remembered this. I40100:30:12.529 --> 00:30:17.210remembered this case, I remembered myLord and I thought, you know,40200:30:17.809 --> 00:30:21.410I'm one person and I know thatI have a voice and I know that40300:30:21.440 --> 00:30:26.680I have a voice that can speakGod's truth and I can help change someone's40400:30:26.680 --> 00:30:32.079heart through God using me, oneperson at a time. Yeah, that's40500:30:32.279 --> 00:30:36.390how abortion is ultimately going to bedefeated. Yeah, absolutely. We've got40600:30:36.470 --> 00:30:37.910to be faithful, yeah, todo what God has called us to do,40700:30:38.190 --> 00:30:41.470to give a voice for these babies, to bring the Gospel to all40800:30:41.549 --> 00:30:45.829for practical help and then leave theresults up to the Lord. Yeah,40900:30:47.150 --> 00:30:49.099we've got to be faithful and withthis, with this case. I mean41000:30:49.259 --> 00:30:56.660look at all the things that thatreally were overcome depression, a false accusation41100:30:56.140 --> 00:30:59.299of rape. It turns out itwas false. I don't know if I41200:30:59.339 --> 00:31:06.410ever said that. The the healingof the relationship of her family, the41300:31:06.609 --> 00:31:11.730healing of the relationship with his family, drug addiction conquered at a want,41400:31:11.809 --> 00:31:18.880a girl completely dependent on overbearing,overprotective parents, on her own and independent.41500:31:18.039 --> 00:31:22.680Now and then she's bringing other peopleto the Lord and helping them to41600:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.519make a choice for life. Allthose things, yeah, all those things41700:31:26.559 --> 00:31:32.359that happened out of that terrible mess. Yeah, and that's the miracle work41800:31:32.440 --> 00:31:34.509in power. It's right, Lord. Yeah. So, guys, we41900:31:34.589 --> 00:31:38.190are appreciate you guys, listening tothis. We would appreciate if you guys42000:31:38.269 --> 00:31:42.470would share this podcast with others encouragethem. Maybe it's folks that you know42100:31:44.150 --> 00:31:48.460and they're talking about how to getinvolved. Maybe they've got a burden for42200:31:48.500 --> 00:31:51.019the issue of abortion and they wantto know how can I get involved?42300:31:51.940 --> 00:31:55.940I think this podcast is a goodentry point give them from information. We42400:31:56.019 --> 00:32:00.019did a podcast months and months agoabout your first time out the abortion center,42500:32:00.099 --> 00:32:01.809what that might look look like.So maybe you guys are listening and42600:32:01.890 --> 00:32:06.569you're praying through getting involved. We'dcertainly love for you to get involved.42700:32:07.410 --> 00:32:10.690Want to quee you guys into somethingthat would be a blessing to you.42800:32:10.809 --> 00:32:16.119I think if you're praying about gettinginvolved is we mentioned in several podcasts we42900:32:16.759 --> 00:32:20.920formerly were cities for life. Wemerged together with love life in an effort43000:32:21.240 --> 00:32:23.960to raise up sidewalk missionaries. That'speople who can be out the abortion centers43100:32:24.160 --> 00:32:28.160but also rally the Church in theircity. So we're doing that. We're43200:32:28.160 --> 00:32:30.630raising up sidewalk missionaries. We're bringingthem here to Charlotte. We're holding boot43300:32:30.670 --> 00:32:35.269camps will retrain them to do thosetwo things, to engage on the sidewalk43400:32:35.309 --> 00:32:37.789and to engage the local church.And and so if you guys want to43500:32:37.789 --> 00:32:40.750get involved with that, you cango to love life dot Org and you43600:32:40.789 --> 00:32:46.460can find some information there. There'stabs. There's a connect tab there that43700:32:46.579 --> 00:32:51.140you can connect and you can reachout to me, Daniel at Love Life43800:32:51.180 --> 00:32:52.700Dot Org. You reach out toher, Vicky at Love Life Dot Org.43900:32:52.940 --> 00:32:55.539Another thing I want to mention youguys. Maybe you don't really feel44000:32:55.579 --> 00:33:00.130like you can take that step tobecome a full time missionary on the sidewalk.44100:33:00.490 --> 00:33:05.329We can still we still do trainingsand we're doing those now once a44200:33:05.410 --> 00:33:07.369month, or we're calling it sidewalkoutreach training. It's a one hundred and44300:33:07.410 --> 00:33:12.690one, very basic but I think, in depth, basic training class.44400:33:12.730 --> 00:33:15.559We do it via zoom and we'regoing to do it actually February, the44500:33:15.720 --> 00:33:19.599six, so is you're listening tothis. You're listening to this just the44600:33:19.720 --> 00:33:23.160Thursday before this training. But wedo them once a month. So the44700:33:23.240 --> 00:33:29.390next training will be the first Saturdayof March and from two to four on44800:33:29.470 --> 00:33:32.430Saturday afternoon the first Saturday of themonth. If you guys want to get44900:33:32.430 --> 00:33:37.390in on any of that, gettrained in that area or get more information45000:33:37.430 --> 00:33:40.539about becoming a sidewalk missionary, reachout to me, Daniel Love Life Dot45100:33:40.539 --> 00:33:45.819Org. I'll get you the informationthat you need, get you just some45200:33:45.980 --> 00:33:49.420sign ups and things like that thatyou'll need. But yeah, reach out45300:33:49.460 --> 00:33:52.420if you're interested in that and withthat, we will talk to you guys45400:33:52.660 --> 00:34:05.970next time. God bless o lovefor love. Give me our love for45500:34:06.210 --> 00:34:17.679gratitude. I know it will costme my life. Nothing's too precious and45600:34:17.960 --> 00:34:19.960some you