God is Still Good Even in Tragic Situations (Part 1)

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.799I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Send Me,200:00:06.160 --> 00:00:11.390Lord. I am welcome to theGospel Center pro life podcast and this episode300:00:11.429 --> 00:00:14.589we're going to talk about the goodnessof God, as God really good in400:00:14.669 --> 00:00:17.949the midst of our suffering, andhow can we help abortion minded women to500:00:17.989 --> 00:00:25.059see that God is good. Staywith us, Lord. I felt show600:00:25.699 --> 00:00:37.770passis touch your heart. Welcome tothe Gospel Center pro life podcast. We700:00:37.850 --> 00:00:41.609appreciate you guys listening and, asalways, we appreciate if you guys would800:00:41.609 --> 00:00:45.250share this podcast and the other episodesthat we have. We put out a900:00:45.409 --> 00:00:50.399new episode every Thursday morning at fiveam. So if you're an early riser1000:00:50.600 --> 00:00:53.679like Vicki is, she's the onewho tells the sun it's time to rise,1100:00:54.560 --> 00:00:57.600you'll be able to get it thatearly or anytime after that. So1200:00:57.960 --> 00:01:03.600every Thursday morning these go out andthis is really centered around helping people who1300:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.150are in pro life ministry or thinkingabout getting involved in pro life ministry,1400:01:07.590 --> 00:01:11.709helping to equip you, helping toencourage you, helping to provoke thought.1500:01:12.069 --> 00:01:18.150So we deal with Biblical topics andlight of abortion and an abortion clinic ministry,1600:01:18.980 --> 00:01:22.420and we deal with practical stuff,just last week we put out one1700:01:22.859 --> 00:01:26.019about signs, how to use signseffectively add an abortion center. Pretty practical,1800:01:26.500 --> 00:01:30.700also very biblical. And then sometimeswe deal with more like heart issues1900:01:30.819 --> 00:01:36.409and things like that, and sothis episode we're going to deal with the2000:01:36.489 --> 00:01:38.569goodness of God. Yeah, Imean we can even think about it in2100:01:38.849 --> 00:01:44.730light of sixty five million babies thathave been killed in our country and the2200:01:45.370 --> 00:01:49.079countless hundreds of millions, billions ofchildren that have died in the womb and2300:01:49.319 --> 00:01:55.239outside of the womb, just allof the the eels in the in the2400:01:55.400 --> 00:01:59.200mess that we deal with as ain a fallen world. Yeah, man,2500:01:59.439 --> 00:02:00.549is God still good in the midstof that? But, of course,2600:02:00.629 --> 00:02:04.670again, bringing it home to theissue that we're dealing with, issue2700:02:04.709 --> 00:02:07.590of abortion. Is God still goodin the midst of that? Right,2800:02:07.750 --> 00:02:13.710is God still good as we dealwith Moms and dad's and these situations day2900:02:13.789 --> 00:02:17.099in and day out, and wesee just some of the real dire situations3000:02:17.300 --> 00:02:23.259that these folks are in and they'recoming to an abortion center and sometimes we3100:02:23.419 --> 00:02:25.900have to look at those situations,look at those stories and encourage these moms3200:02:25.939 --> 00:02:30.050and dads that God is still goodin spite of this in spite of the3300:02:30.129 --> 00:02:34.169stuff that you're dealing with. sothat's just one facet of this thing.3400:02:34.289 --> 00:02:36.810But, Vicki, if you would, you've written an article like you do3500:02:36.930 --> 00:02:38.810often times, and this is actuallygoing to go on our sidewalks for life3600:02:38.810 --> 00:02:43.210website and the blog. Are youthere? Yeah, but kind of lay3700:02:43.289 --> 00:02:46.879out what was behind this thought,because we talked about a little bit and3800:02:46.000 --> 00:02:50.159you laid out an article here.What was your thinking in these? A3900:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.280few things. I know what keptme from God for many years, while4000:02:53.319 --> 00:02:59.110I was still explore in whether Godwas real or not, was seeing all4100:02:59.229 --> 00:03:02.229this suffering. It's very common question. There's so much suffering, there's so4200:03:02.349 --> 00:03:09.349much evil. If God is good, why does he allow it or or4300:03:09.469 --> 00:03:15.819even cause it? You know thatI was struggling even with thinking through.4400:03:15.060 --> 00:03:19.900Does he cause if he allows it, he could prevent it. He doesn't.4500:03:20.979 --> 00:03:23.500So, just at a personal level, that had been my experience,4600:03:23.699 --> 00:03:29.449was questioning the goodness of God andhaving that be a stumbling block in coming4700:03:29.490 --> 00:03:32.569to him. But then as acounselor out on the sidewalk, it seems4800:03:32.689 --> 00:03:42.159increasingly God is bringing me people,women who tell me stories that just break4900:03:42.400 --> 00:03:50.080my heart, that are suffering fromearly in life throughout to the point at5000:03:50.080 --> 00:03:54.639which they arrive at the abortion center. And so many of them have asked5100:03:54.750 --> 00:04:01.949me, how can God be goodI don't see his goodness in my life.5200:04:01.949 --> 00:04:06.789Yeah, so I want to tellyou the story of one that really5300:04:06.990 --> 00:04:11.900brought this to a to ahead forme. Okay, it was a woman5400:04:11.939 --> 00:04:15.459that I'm at not all that longago at the abortion center, and she5500:04:16.339 --> 00:04:20.060her story was probably the most tragicI've ever heard. She was raised in5600:04:20.180 --> 00:04:27.490a socalled Christian home. At Agefour she was raped by the father's best5700:04:27.649 --> 00:04:33.569friend, but the parents did notfollow through on prosecuting him or bringing him5800:04:33.569 --> 00:04:38.170to justice because he was the father'sbest friend. Well, so, right5900:04:38.250 --> 00:04:45.079away here's this four year old whois betrayed by those who are charged to6000:04:45.160 --> 00:04:49.000protect her, her own parents,and she not only was she not protected,6100:04:49.879 --> 00:04:55.990but her whole concept of justice andthe Justice of God. This man6200:04:56.230 --> 00:05:00.709was not brought to justice. Soshe now has learned two important truths in6300:05:00.790 --> 00:05:05.389her little eyes, that her thosewho were supposed to protect her did not,6400:05:06.420 --> 00:05:11.860and there is no justice for peoplewho do evil, terrible things.6500:05:11.939 --> 00:05:17.660She's only four and this is herexperience. Then, understandably, as she6600:05:17.819 --> 00:05:24.329grows up, she turns to somepretty bad things. Drugs, promiscuity,6700:05:25.529 --> 00:05:30.129rebellion, and her parents separated,I believe, divorce shortly after this rape.6800:05:31.449 --> 00:05:38.000But she grew up a very troubledyoung lady, no wonder, and6900:05:38.240 --> 00:05:41.560her parents, or her mom Iguess, at that point sent her off7000:05:41.720 --> 00:05:46.399to a Christian Rehab after she ranaway. I think she ran away as7100:05:46.439 --> 00:05:50.509a teenager. She sent her toa Christian Rehab where this young ladies said7200:05:50.509 --> 00:05:59.589she really wanted to find God andshe was very moved by a wonderful sermon7300:06:00.310 --> 00:06:06.100and then an altar call and shesaid she was determined she was now going7400:06:06.300 --> 00:06:12.500to fully submit her life to God. So she said she she asked Jesus7500:06:12.579 --> 00:06:16.459to be her lord that that night, after this sermon, and within a7600:06:16.660 --> 00:06:24.370week one of the camp counselors atthis Rehab Facility, Christian Rehab Facility,7700:06:24.529 --> 00:06:29.850raped her well, and she saidthat there were several people in that facility7800:06:30.050 --> 00:06:35.800that reported having been sexually abused bythis this man, but the facility apparently7900:06:36.000 --> 00:06:43.000did nothing. So again repeat ofwhat happened to her when she was for8000:06:43.600 --> 00:06:46.430and now here she has just submittedher life to God. So it's not8100:06:46.589 --> 00:06:53.790only her heavenly father that didn't standby our I'm sorry, her earthly father8200:06:53.910 --> 00:06:57.230that she felt didn't stand by her, but now it's her heavenly father.8300:06:57.269 --> 00:07:00.029Yeah, who, here she is, doing everything right in her eyes,8400:07:00.069 --> 00:07:03.500and those were the words she usedwith me when she was recounting this story.8500:07:03.579 --> 00:07:06.740I did everything right and did everythingI was supposed to do at that8600:07:06.899 --> 00:07:12.779point, repented, turn to Godand my life fell into a deeper abyss.8700:07:12.779 --> 00:07:21.449Yeah, so, following that sheended up just down a continuingly bad8800:07:23.009 --> 00:07:29.089path. Yeah, and she wasleft, left home and out of the8900:07:29.170 --> 00:07:33.519Rehab left home and ended up inworking in the sex trade. Well,9000:07:34.160 --> 00:07:40.079we're again understandable, given her background, that that's often what happens when you've9100:07:40.079 --> 00:07:46.870been sexually abused at a young age. You end up in a promiscuous drug9200:07:46.910 --> 00:07:51.629or addiction lifestyle. And she saidwhat she knew it was dangerous. She9300:07:51.790 --> 00:07:57.790knew that she was really kind ofasking for trouble. But while entertaining in9400:07:58.470 --> 00:08:05.819a private room one of the men, she was drugged by him and I9500:08:05.980 --> 00:08:11.889think Babe went unconscious and was rapedand became pregnant. Yeah, from that9600:08:13.529 --> 00:08:18.490she kept the child. She shedidn't want to abort. I guess there9700:08:18.569 --> 00:08:22.490was still that in her upbringing thatshe knew that that was a step too9800:08:22.649 --> 00:08:26.009far for her. But she wasstill working in the sex trade when I9900:08:26.089 --> 00:08:33.799met her with a young child,and so I spent a lot of time10000:08:33.840 --> 00:08:37.080talking with her, ministering to her, kind of befriending her, sharing the10100:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.429Gospel with her. And when wewould talk about God, her question kept10200:08:41.470 --> 00:08:46.789coming back to is God really good? Yeah, I sure haven't seen it.10300:08:48.070 --> 00:08:50.830She said that several times. Ihave not seen the goodness of God.10400:08:52.230 --> 00:08:58.100Yeah, and so I I knewwhere I had been as an unbeliever10500:08:58.940 --> 00:09:05.580and where I saw her in askinga question that I think we know the10600:09:05.779 --> 00:09:11.649answer as believers. Yeah, theanswer is well, Jesus loved loved us10700:09:11.690 --> 00:09:16.690so much. God loved us somuch that he sent his only son to10800:09:16.850 --> 00:09:24.720die this horrific death, brutal torture, and to pay the penalty for sin10900:09:24.879 --> 00:09:28.759that we deserve. So is Godgood? You only have to look at11000:09:28.799 --> 00:09:35.000the cross to know how good Godis. But I do believe I didn't11100:09:35.039 --> 00:09:41.029receive that message when I was lookingat a world filled with bad, not11200:09:41.230 --> 00:09:46.470good. Yeah, and I feltlike this young lady couldn't. She had11300:09:46.549 --> 00:09:50.190heard the message of the Cross.She knew the message of the Cross and11400:09:50.429 --> 00:09:56.700that was not she was not ata place yet where she could hear that11500:09:56.899 --> 00:10:03.139that demonstrated God's goodness. Yeah.So what prompted me as I started exploring11600:10:03.179 --> 00:10:07.250and writing about this was, isthere a path through the Bible, a11700:10:07.450 --> 00:10:13.730biblical, Biblical example of how dowe lead someone to an understanding where they'll11800:10:13.730 --> 00:10:18.289end up at the cross? That'sultimately, that's where you have to end11900:10:18.330 --> 00:10:24.919up. But are there things inthe Bible that can help us as we're12000:10:24.960 --> 00:10:31.240dealing with people who have really experiencedvery little goodness all? Now? Her12100:10:31.279 --> 00:10:35.789own sins certainly entered into it atat certain points. Not as a four12200:10:35.830 --> 00:10:41.350year old, right, and andnot as not as a woman who has12300:10:41.429 --> 00:10:43.710just given her life to the Lordand she's raped by a Christian, so12400:10:43.870 --> 00:10:48.710called Christian counselor so. So thatwas kind of that's the premise. That's12500:10:48.710 --> 00:10:54.500the background of what I was hopingwe could explore, because we see it12600:10:54.899 --> 00:11:01.899all the time at the abortion center. I hear this many times. God12700:11:01.059 --> 00:11:05.009is not good. God allowed this, this, this to happen to me.12800:11:05.610 --> 00:11:09.289How can you call him good?Yeah, and I know one of12900:11:09.330 --> 00:11:13.610the things that for you guys listening, one of the kind of wise or13000:11:13.649 --> 00:11:20.360why are we touching on? Thisharkens back, I guess, to an13100:11:20.399 --> 00:11:24.000episode we did months ago about trustin God. Yeah, helping women,13200:11:24.279 --> 00:11:28.720helping abortion minded women trust the Lord, because that's what we want. They've13300:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.950put their trust in abortion. We'veencountered them at the abortion center and we13400:11:33.029 --> 00:11:37.549want to try to influence them toconvey that, to take that trust out13500:11:37.549 --> 00:11:39.870of abortion and put it in theLord. Yeah, but when there's this13600:11:41.070 --> 00:11:46.070big question of well, how canI trust God? Yeah, is he13700:11:46.190 --> 00:11:48.779even good? I mean, lookwhat he's allowed to happen in my life.13800:11:48.340 --> 00:11:52.659Look at the things that have happenedin my life, and God didn't13900:11:52.659 --> 00:11:54.620stop it. So, after all, if God didn't stop it, he14000:11:54.700 --> 00:11:58.299must not be good. And sothey really have a lack of trust in14100:11:58.340 --> 00:12:01.929the Lord. Honestly, he meantthere's two questions there. He must not14200:12:01.049 --> 00:12:05.250be good or he's not powerful.Yeah, he was unable to stop it14300:12:05.409 --> 00:12:09.330and of course we reject both ofthose. Yeah, but but those are14400:12:09.690 --> 00:12:16.480really critical questions for someone to tobe asking an answered. It's the big14500:12:16.600 --> 00:12:20.080question, just not even having todo with abortion or dealing with abortion.14600:12:20.159 --> 00:12:26.279Minded women it's the question that everybody'sasking. Really, if you get down14700:12:26.360 --> 00:12:28.279to it right and you're talking topeople who are atheists or claimed to be14800:12:28.320 --> 00:12:31.830atheists, as I've said before,I don't think there are any actual atheist.14900:12:31.909 --> 00:12:35.590I think most atheists take the attitudeof there is no god and I15000:12:35.669 --> 00:12:39.990hate him. You know, they'reangry at God. And really, if15100:12:39.070 --> 00:12:41.990you get down to the nitty grittyof people that say there is no God15200:12:43.789 --> 00:12:46.580and they tell you initially, well, it's because of scientific evidence and because15300:12:46.580 --> 00:12:48.500Blah Blah, blah, Blah Blah. But really, and you know this,15400:12:48.659 --> 00:12:52.820once you get into the conversations,they're going to start talking about the15500:12:52.940 --> 00:12:56.740goodness of God, they're going tostart talking about the things that God has15600:12:56.740 --> 00:13:00.409allowed in their lives. are goingto start talking about hypocrites and church that15700:13:00.450 --> 00:13:03.450they were raised in and all ofthis, or the wars in the Bible15800:13:03.570 --> 00:13:05.929and the slaughtering by God. Yeah, are telling you him to slaughter other15900:13:07.129 --> 00:13:09.009groups. That doesn't sound good.You know those kinds of question. Yeah,16000:13:09.049 --> 00:13:15.840so a lot of it it's relational. It's not scientific or or any16100:13:15.879 --> 00:13:18.039of that. It's just relational.They don't trust the Lord because of things16200:13:18.080 --> 00:13:22.279that they've seen, and mostly it'sreally things that they've seen in other people.16300:13:22.919 --> 00:13:26.590I want. I mean it's oftentimes it's the hypocrisy in the church,16400:13:28.149 --> 00:13:33.710and certainly understand that. I've seenhypocrisy. But the reality is in16500:13:33.990 --> 00:13:39.350any system that we deal with,there's going to be some hypocrisy there,16600:13:39.470 --> 00:13:41.419right, there's going to be people. Anything that's been touched by human beings16700:13:41.980 --> 00:13:46.740is going to have components of sinin it. Right, it's going to16800:13:46.820 --> 00:13:52.940be off track in some way.But we have to trust God's word,16900:13:54.580 --> 00:13:56.970and God's word tells us that Godis good. As a matter of fact,17000:13:56.370 --> 00:14:00.129he is the very standard of whatit is to be goods matter of17100:14:00.169 --> 00:14:03.090fact, without God we would haveno standard of measure what is good,17200:14:03.129 --> 00:14:07.129what is moral, what is whatis correct right, what is in line17300:14:07.210 --> 00:14:11.919with truth? Yeah, if withoutGod, without the one who is the17400:14:11.039 --> 00:14:16.600truth, truth doesn't really matter.It's kind of irrelevant. Yeah, but17500:14:16.759 --> 00:14:22.000yeah, that's not really the topicof this podcast. It's really helping folks17600:14:22.159 --> 00:14:26.789sort through we have to sort throughthese things. You can't give what you17700:14:26.830 --> 00:14:28.629don't have. If you don't understand, have your mind wrapped around that God17800:14:28.830 --> 00:14:33.230is good, how are you goingto help a mom at an abortion center17900:14:33.269 --> 00:14:37.669see that God is good in spiteof her difficult situation and that he can18000:14:37.710 --> 00:14:39.860see them through. It's ultimate again, an issue of trust. If you18100:14:39.940 --> 00:14:43.940don't think someone is good, ifthey if they aren't good as far as18200:14:45.580 --> 00:14:48.580morally trustworthy, then they're not goingto be trustworthy at all. Right,18300:14:48.659 --> 00:14:52.500right, and if that's who you'redepending on to get you out of this18400:14:52.740 --> 00:14:56.889mess and you don't feel you candepend on them, then you're going to18500:14:56.929 --> 00:15:00.730take matters into your own hands,which is subortion. Yeah, it's what18600:15:00.850 --> 00:15:03.370they choose. Yes, so II went through the Bible. Will Not18700:15:03.490 --> 00:15:05.889through the whole Bible, but Iwas. I was trying to come up18800:15:05.929 --> 00:15:13.200with biblical examples of lives that enduredconstant suffering. Yeah, and there are.18900:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.759There's there's lots of them. Sure, there's lots of lots of examples19000:15:16.799 --> 00:15:22.029at least, of people who certainlysuffered an entire life of suffering, like19100:15:22.149 --> 00:15:26.669the life I just described in thatyoung woman, not so much, but19200:15:26.750 --> 00:15:30.269there are some. I actually didfind some. But the first one I19300:15:30.429 --> 00:15:33.029thought of was Jeremiah. Happens tome. I've been working through the book19400:15:33.070 --> 00:15:39.820of Jeremiah. Okay, time so, so Jeremiah was. He certainly endured19500:15:39.860 --> 00:15:46.820a great deal of suffering during hisforty years of ministry. Yeah, absolutely19600:15:46.899 --> 00:15:50.169so. God called him to speakto the he jeremiah five is one of19700:15:50.169 --> 00:15:54.250the scriptures that many pro life folksuse. I've used it before, right19800:15:54.490 --> 00:15:58.330where God calls Jeremiah. Before Iformed you, I knew you and set19900:15:58.370 --> 00:16:03.210you apart as the as a prophetto the nations. Yeah, and Jeremiah20000:16:03.360 --> 00:16:08.120is on to talk about how he'sa youth and how can he fulfill this20100:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.200call? And God says, don'tsay you're a youth if I've called you20200:16:11.720 --> 00:16:15.840before I formed you. I knewyou and set your part as a prophet20300:16:15.879 --> 00:16:22.669to the nation's. So that's thecall of God early in Jeremiah's life.20400:16:22.429 --> 00:16:27.470But God warned Jeremiah that you're gonnabe rejected in Jeremiah, some refer to20500:16:27.470 --> 00:16:30.710him as the weeping prophet. Right, and rightly so, because he had20600:16:30.750 --> 00:16:37.139a pretty sorrowful life. He didhe, I mean he he acted out20700:16:37.460 --> 00:16:42.179some of God's judgments in in verypainful ways. He was told not to20800:16:42.379 --> 00:16:47.330marry, he was told he couldnot go to celebrations, he could not20900:16:47.450 --> 00:16:51.809go to parties. Yeah, hewas supposed to be mournful and suffering and21000:16:51.929 --> 00:16:56.090sorrowful because he's coming to the Israeliteswith the message that they are going to21100:16:56.129 --> 00:16:59.769go into the Babylonian the Babylonians aregoing to capture them and they're going to21200:16:59.769 --> 00:17:03.399be in captivity for what was it? A Long Time? Yes, seventy21300:17:03.399 --> 00:17:07.160years. Seventy years. And therewere plenty of prophets at the time,21400:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.079false prophets, yeah, who weresaying, Oh, Jeremiah's full of it,21500:17:11.279 --> 00:17:15.869he the he's just prophesying lies,this is not going to happen,21600:17:15.910 --> 00:17:19.190and that's what they want. That'swhat the people wanted to believe. No21700:17:19.309 --> 00:17:22.789one wanted to believe that they're goingto be going into captivity, captivity with21800:17:22.829 --> 00:17:33.859the brutal Babylonians. But Jeremiah remainedremained truthful and despite the ridicule and the21900:17:33.259 --> 00:17:41.460persecution, he continued to give God'smessage to people that did want to hear22000:17:41.500 --> 00:17:44.730him. So you said, firstof all, he was rejected. I22100:17:44.769 --> 00:17:48.930mean, that's a great verse.Yeah, about doesn't this sound like a22200:17:48.049 --> 00:17:52.049Fun Gig? I'm going to giveyou. This is God talking to in22300:17:52.130 --> 00:17:56.089Jeremiah Twenty seven. Okay, Yep, I'll read it. You shall speak22400:17:56.130 --> 00:18:00.200all these words to them, butthey will not listen to you, and22500:18:00.319 --> 00:18:04.839you shall call to them, butthey will not answer you. Sounds Great.22600:18:07.000 --> 00:18:08.400Thanks for this called Lord. Thankyou that you've called me to a22700:18:08.480 --> 00:18:12.430people that are just going to outrightreject me. Yeah, and and push22800:18:12.509 --> 00:18:17.190me to the side. And ifyou guys have been on the sidewalk for22900:18:17.269 --> 00:18:19.670any amount of time, you guysknow what this is like. Exactly.23000:18:19.750 --> 00:18:25.630One brother told me, brother Gregand Raleigh. He's just a good brother23100:18:25.710 --> 00:18:29.619who reaches out of the abortion centers. There, said brother speaking to me,23200:18:29.980 --> 00:18:33.259you've mastered the Ministry of rejection.That's right. It's like, wow,23300:18:33.259 --> 00:18:36.500I've never heard of that way,the Ministry of rejection, because,23400:18:36.700 --> 00:18:41.329let's face it, the majority ofthe women at the abortion centers are choosing23500:18:41.329 --> 00:18:44.930to kill their children. That's right. We may see. We just saw23600:18:45.049 --> 00:18:48.650today, praise God, three babiesthat were saying as prodortion center here on23700:18:48.809 --> 00:18:53.210the trope drive, but there theywere. But almost thirty thirty MOMS,23800:18:53.289 --> 00:18:57.440something like that, between three fiveand thirty. There's maybe, in our23900:18:57.440 --> 00:19:02.160natural mind, good reason to bediscourage, because is the vast majority are24000:19:02.160 --> 00:19:06.880killing their children. Yeah, andthe vast majority are rejecting us and many,24100:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.069well, maybe not many, butmaybe a good portion. That could24200:19:11.069 --> 00:19:15.910be very discouraging. You're actually notjust ignoring what we're saying that some even24300:19:17.549 --> 00:19:22.269being very allowed about their opposition towhat we're doing at right given given us24400:19:22.309 --> 00:19:26.740all kinds of vile the finger andyelling terrible things and even threatening yet I24500:19:26.819 --> 00:19:32.380mean it is, it is anexercise and how to how to deal with24600:19:33.019 --> 00:19:37.180ongoing and constant rejection. Yeah,and that was Jeremiah's life. He preached24700:19:37.460 --> 00:19:41.250forty years. Unless I mistake him, but I believe that's that's how I24800:19:41.369 --> 00:19:47.849can preach. Think that's right.No success. Yeah, no one listen24900:19:47.930 --> 00:19:49.410to him, just like I'd warnedhim. Yeah, no one. He25000:19:49.569 --> 00:19:52.839was never listened to. I justcan't imagine. I've been out on the25100:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.599sidewalk eight years and that the rejectioncan really get to you at times.25200:19:57.640 --> 00:20:03.519Yeah, absolutely, imagine doing thatforty years with no visible yeah. Yeah,25300:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.230and what he was doing the entiretime was he was obeying the Lord.25400:20:07.269 --> 00:20:11.950Yeah, it was in relationship withwith the Lord, constantly getting the25500:20:11.069 --> 00:20:18.470message from God. And so,because here's the thing. If we're constantly25600:20:18.549 --> 00:20:22.819rejected, we certainly should examine ourselvesand think, okay, maybe I'm off25700:20:22.940 --> 00:20:25.700base some, maybe I'm doing somethingwrong. Yeah, maybe I'm doing something25800:20:25.740 --> 00:20:29.700wrong right, but if you're doingwhat you're doing in line with God's word,25900:20:30.500 --> 00:20:33.859then you don't need to worry aboutthat. Yeah, but for Jeremiah,26000:20:33.900 --> 00:20:37.130he was certainly doing in long withwhat he was supposed to do,26100:20:37.210 --> 00:20:40.329in line with God's word. Hewas speaking the very word of God there,26200:20:40.369 --> 00:20:42.730Yep. And yet was rejected.As a matter of fact, again,26300:20:42.769 --> 00:20:47.210the Lord warned him, yeah,we'll be racket what will happen?26400:20:47.329 --> 00:20:51.920And along with that rejection he wasoutright mistreated. Yeah, so he was.26500:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.680I know at one point he was. He was beaten and left in26600:20:55.759 --> 00:21:03.240the stocks. That's in Jeremiah twentythe religious leaders in Jeremiah Twenty Six said26700:21:03.279 --> 00:21:08.230that because his message was so aberrantto him, to them, that he26800:21:08.309 --> 00:21:12.470should receive the death penalty. Heshould be killed to get a death.26900:21:12.710 --> 00:21:17.670Yea, when he went to theking with with the word of God,27000:21:17.789 --> 00:21:22.460the king burned his scroll with theword of God, and then I think27100:21:22.539 --> 00:21:26.180he came back. I think Godsaid, well, here's another one and27200:21:26.420 --> 00:21:30.059go try it again, right,and the King Burns it again. So27300:21:30.420 --> 00:21:36.009no one would listen to him.And and then after that episode he was27400:21:36.170 --> 00:21:40.250tossed in a cistern, which Iguess is like a deep well, and27500:21:40.329 --> 00:21:44.450it was. He said he sankdeep into the mud. Can you imagine27600:21:44.569 --> 00:21:48.599what kind of yeah, ikey creatureswe're down there in the mud with him,27700:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.400king and left and left. Whena fun place to be that?27800:21:52.759 --> 00:22:00.039Now, now, so you know, Jeremiah, it does foreshadow the suffering27900:22:00.079 --> 00:22:06.230and torment of of Jesus. Yeah, but I can't imagine it was at28000:22:06.269 --> 00:22:12.710all fun. And I do wonderhow often he wondered God, are you28100:22:12.829 --> 00:22:18.380really good? Yeah, because man, this doesn't feel like goodness. Yeah,28200:22:18.380 --> 00:22:23.619yeah, and we think about thecall of God and you, I'll28300:22:23.619 --> 00:22:27.460tell people, oftentimes the best placeto be is in the will of God.28400:22:27.859 --> 00:22:32.170Right, we want to be inthe will of God and almost like,28500:22:32.410 --> 00:22:36.809I guess, in some sense inour American Christianity, we sort of28600:22:36.930 --> 00:22:41.210think that Christianity is about us.We're even taught that it's about our comfort.28700:22:41.329 --> 00:22:44.880God has invested in our comfort,but the reality is God is not28800:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.720invested in our comfort. His commitmentto you when you became a Christian was28900:22:48.839 --> 00:22:52.599to make you more like his son, Jesus, and that could bring joy.29000:22:52.720 --> 00:22:57.480Jesus seemed to me to be avery joyful man in his earthly ministry.29100:22:57.519 --> 00:23:02.029Yeah, he was very joyful,but he also was very sorrowful.29200:23:02.430 --> 00:23:07.190He wept over Jerusalem. He wasrejected by the Pharisees and rejected by the29300:23:07.309 --> 00:23:10.990majority of the people of his day. Right, is it cut a crowd29400:23:11.029 --> 00:23:14.740out, crucify him? Right,rejected the son of God himself. So29500:23:15.660 --> 00:23:19.180the the Ministry of rejection, ispart of the Ministry of the Christian it29600:23:19.380 --> 00:23:22.940is. I and I want tointerrupt just for a second because just as29700:23:22.019 --> 00:23:27.289you said the Word Comfort, Iwas writing the word comfort because one another29800:23:27.450 --> 00:23:33.329discussion I had with a mom yesterday, as she was we were discussing belief29900:23:33.490 --> 00:23:37.609and faith and Anne, and shesaid she didn't believe what I believed,30000:23:37.849 --> 00:23:44.000but she understood that it was acomfort to me, and that's something that30100:23:44.119 --> 00:23:48.759makes me Bristle. I hear thatall the time and this is why I30200:23:48.160 --> 00:23:56.349said so much of what God asksof Me Is the furthest thing from comfort30300:23:56.509 --> 00:24:02.190that you could imagine. I'm notcomfortable standing in, you know, ten30400:24:02.269 --> 00:24:04.470degree whether in the middle of thewinter, for three hours at a time30500:24:04.589 --> 00:24:08.589in front of an abortion center.It is not the that it is comforting,30600:24:10.619 --> 00:24:15.019but it is that I am sograteful for what God has done to30700:24:15.099 --> 00:24:19.779me that I am willing to doand want to do to serve him as30800:24:19.900 --> 00:24:23.490he desires. Yeah, he toserve him. Yes, as believers we30900:24:23.609 --> 00:24:27.089always have to come from the perspectivethat it's not about us. Right,31000:24:27.369 --> 00:24:32.170what we do is about the Lordand it certainly God understands. If you31100:24:32.410 --> 00:24:36.089read through the Psalms, you cansee David crying out to the Lord,31200:24:36.130 --> 00:24:40.640even in a sense, complaining tothe Lord. Yeah, but it's a31300:24:40.680 --> 00:24:45.079different type of complaining. It's differentthan if you look at the children of31400:24:45.160 --> 00:24:49.039Israel coming through the Wilderness and Exodus, as their grumbling, grumbling and complaining31500:24:49.079 --> 00:24:55.950against the Lord. It's more ofthis. It's a selfish grumbling and complaining31600:24:56.029 --> 00:24:57.869that the Children Israe are doing,and God judges them for it. Yeah,31700:24:57.950 --> 00:25:00.430but if you look at David,it's like an honest I don't know31800:25:00.430 --> 00:25:03.349about I don't know if complaining isthe right word, but crying out to31900:25:03.430 --> 00:25:07.740the Lord, it's a broken heart. Yeah, that is it. That32000:25:07.900 --> 00:25:12.740is crying before God. Yeah,and one preacher said it really helped me32100:25:12.819 --> 00:25:17.539a lot. He said reading throughthe Psalms as helpful because it gives us32200:25:17.579 --> 00:25:22.049an allowance to call out to theLord, not in a complaining way,32300:25:22.769 --> 00:25:26.569but in a relational way, tobring your petitions before the Lord, to32400:25:26.650 --> 00:25:30.490bring your weakness. Psalms really helpus to open up and show our weakness,32500:25:30.490 --> 00:25:32.690because we can kind of, inone sense, hold back. We32600:25:32.769 --> 00:25:34.410don't want to be reverent. That'sgood, we shouldn't be a reverent to32700:25:34.450 --> 00:25:37.119the Lord, but sometimes we don'twant to be honest with the Lord and32800:25:37.240 --> 00:25:41.240the Lord sees our hearts. Solike Jeremiah, he's calling out to the32900:25:41.400 --> 00:25:48.400Lord throughout his ministry, before theLord. And one point in Jeremiah Chapter33000:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.869Twenty, this is Jeremiah crying outto the Lord and he says in Verse33100:25:52.910 --> 00:25:57.230Eight, Verse Verse Eight and nine, it says, for when I spoke,33200:25:57.269 --> 00:26:00.069I cried out, I shouted violenceand plunder, because the word of33300:26:00.069 --> 00:26:04.099the Lord has made me a reproachin a derision daily. So he's he's33400:26:04.380 --> 00:26:07.180crying this out to the Lord,like your word has made me a reproach33500:26:07.299 --> 00:26:11.539in a derision daily, he says. Then I said I will not make33600:26:11.619 --> 00:26:15.900mention of him, nor speak anymore in his name. But his word33700:26:15.579 --> 00:26:18.529was in my heart like a fireburning shut up in my bad owns.33800:26:18.529 --> 00:26:22.930I was weary of holding it backand I could not. So He's saying,33900:26:22.970 --> 00:26:26.490I'm dealing with this struggle, I'mbeing rejected, but I can't help34000:26:26.569 --> 00:26:29.809but speak your words. I triednot to and I could write, I34100:26:29.930 --> 00:26:33.960couldn't mean not this sence. Hecan identify with that right. Can constantly34200:26:33.079 --> 00:26:38.519reject it and you're constantly people aremocking you or whatever you could identify with.34300:26:40.000 --> 00:26:41.519Okay, I just I'm not goingto speak anymore. I'm done.34400:26:41.559 --> 00:26:45.720Yeah, I'm done, but JeremiahSays No, your word in me is34500:26:45.759 --> 00:26:47.910like a fire shut up in mybones as like I can't help it.34600:26:48.390 --> 00:26:51.589I have to speak your word,I have to speak your truth. But34700:26:51.710 --> 00:26:55.910there is this fight in Jeremiah andI like the humanness here, because we34800:26:55.990 --> 00:27:02.019can sometimes in our minds as believers, disconnect these biblical figures like Jeremiah,34900:27:02.380 --> 00:27:07.299like David, like the Apostle Pauland others, just kind of make them35000:27:07.339 --> 00:27:15.460they're like these sort of speak holypriciful superheroes. There parts of stories that35100:27:15.500 --> 00:27:18.130we read about we don't really connectwith their humanity. Yeah, but Jeremiah35200:27:18.250 --> 00:27:22.930certainly was a human being. Hecertainly knew what rejection rejection was not fun.35300:27:23.170 --> 00:27:26.369He certainly knew what it felt liketo be rejected and he cried out35400:27:26.369 --> 00:27:30.319to the Lord. So I'll say, just to bring it home for us35500:27:30.200 --> 00:27:33.960and again, you can't give whatyou don't have. So if we don't35600:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.160have that relationship with the Lord andwe don't get honest before the Lord and35700:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.799crying out to God in our sufferingand our frustration in our rejections, then35800:27:41.839 --> 00:27:45.349we can't encourage abortion. Amount ofwomen and men going into an abortion center35900:27:45.390 --> 00:27:51.549to do that. So the pointhere is that God is relational. God36000:27:51.670 --> 00:27:55.710knows our suffering, God knows thethings that Jeremiah was going through and God36100:27:55.750 --> 00:28:00.700had a relationship with him, andthat sort of redeems it all. It36200:28:00.859 --> 00:28:04.299does. But but God, despitehis love for Jeremiah and the relationship,36300:28:04.859 --> 00:28:08.500he didn't let Jeremiah off the hook. Yeah, he didn't say, you're36400:28:08.539 --> 00:28:12.490right, you know, what you'veendured is more than any human being should36500:28:12.490 --> 00:28:18.009be asked to endure, and sogo home and I'll find another prophet to36600:28:18.690 --> 00:28:23.690speak speak my words. He sentJeremiah back on on the same path.36700:28:23.809 --> 00:28:30.400He's a path of really a lotof suffering, and I actually find I36800:28:30.599 --> 00:28:36.319know it's kind of a strange comfortto find, but I do because it36900:28:36.559 --> 00:28:44.309makes me feel like if I amsuffering in following God, it doesn't mean37000:28:45.710 --> 00:28:49.750I'm on the wrong path or I'msinful necessarily or anything like that. It37100:28:49.910 --> 00:28:56.380could just be that is a roadthat many have traveled, including Jesus,37200:28:56.940 --> 00:29:02.380and why should I be exampt maybethe path of suffering is, for whatever37300:29:02.579 --> 00:29:07.460reason, a valuable and critical path, or God wouldn't set us on it.37400:29:07.619 --> 00:29:11.170Yeah, and I know not allsuffering is the same and not all37500:29:11.250 --> 00:29:17.009suffering is is like Jeremiah suffering,where God said this is what you will37600:29:17.049 --> 00:29:22.849endure. But there's many other exampleswhere suffering was the way of life and37700:29:22.890 --> 00:29:26.799there was a purpose, which we'regoing to explore, I think, later37800:29:26.440 --> 00:29:32.400in in why all of these biblicalfigures endured some of this suffering. Yeah,37900:29:32.720 --> 00:29:37.680ultimately Jeremiah was proven right. Everythinghe said was going to happen indeed38000:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.029happened. Yeah, absolutely, andthen ultimately we can say, when it's38100:29:41.029 --> 00:29:45.390all said and done, Jeremiah's withthe Lord probably turn ity. Yeah,38200:29:45.750 --> 00:29:51.069right. So that's why we haveand I think in speaking to abortion minded38300:29:51.109 --> 00:29:56.019women, we have to for ourselvesand then with them to help them see38400:29:56.299 --> 00:30:00.900from an eternal perspective. Right.Yeah, because if always sees what happens38500:30:00.940 --> 00:30:04.019here on this earth, we're goingto miss a lot of what we are38600:30:04.180 --> 00:30:08.650created for. Yeah, human beingswere created for eternity. Yeah, and38700:30:08.930 --> 00:30:12.890created to be relational to the Lord, to relate to him. Yeah.38800:30:14.289 --> 00:30:18.730And of course we're not going toin this podcast figure out all the the38900:30:18.890 --> 00:30:22.480problem of evil, in the problemof suffering that men and women have grappled39000:30:22.519 --> 00:30:27.279with since humanity began. We're notgoing to figure that out. Yeah,39100:30:27.400 --> 00:30:30.880but one of the things that weare going to continually say, and one39200:30:30.920 --> 00:30:33.599of the things, I think thatas sidewall counselors and ministers of the Gospel,39300:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.950we need to point people to,is that God is bigger than it39400:30:38.069 --> 00:30:42.230all. Yeah, that eternity.One preacher says, you're dead a whole39500:30:42.230 --> 00:30:47.150lot longer than you're alive. Youmight stick been mind, you might spend39600:30:47.630 --> 00:30:49.619eighty years and maybe ninety years,maybe a hundred years on this earth,39700:30:51.339 --> 00:30:52.579but you're going to be dead.I mean, think about George Washington.39800:30:52.619 --> 00:30:56.500He died when he was like,what in his s or something? Yeah,39900:30:56.539 --> 00:31:00.099and he's been dead for what twoHundred Years Now? Maybe I'm not40000:31:00.180 --> 00:31:03.740doing my math correctly. You've beendead for longer than he was alive.40100:31:03.779 --> 00:31:07.690Yeah, he's just one example.Everybody is is in that same state,40200:31:07.890 --> 00:31:11.410right. So we need to bethinking from an eternal perspective and we need40300:31:11.490 --> 00:31:15.650to help others to think from aneternal perspective. And Bible tells us God40400:31:15.769 --> 00:31:19.480has put eternity in the heart ofman. We know that there's something after40500:31:19.559 --> 00:31:25.359this life. So helping abortion mindedMOMS and dad's to help them to see40600:31:25.599 --> 00:31:30.599from an eternal perspective really helps that. To look past, not to marginalize40700:31:30.640 --> 00:31:37.390or mental minimalize the current suffering andthe temporal suffering, but to say that40800:31:37.430 --> 00:31:40.869the temporal suffering is just that.It's temporal. It doesn't last forever,40900:31:40.910 --> 00:31:42.829right, and that's actually we're goingto get into that, that idea a41000:31:42.910 --> 00:31:48.420little bit later on and as we'regoing through this framework. But but also41100:31:48.740 --> 00:31:55.779that even in the midst of sufferingthat we can't always find a purpose.41200:31:55.900 --> 00:31:59.740But I think in all the exampleswere going to go through there was a41300:31:59.980 --> 00:32:04.490purpose revealed. Maybe not in thatperson's lifetime, although I think in most41400:32:04.529 --> 00:32:08.490cases they were. And when,when you can see that there is a41500:32:08.650 --> 00:32:16.720divine purpose, that is a positivepurpose, it makes suffering much more endurable,41600:32:16.839 --> 00:32:21.839like going through an operation that youknow when you come out of it41700:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.720you will be healthier and there isa positive outcome. So I think I41800:32:25.359 --> 00:32:30.470love what you said and I totallyagree that an eternal perspective is absolutely necessary.41900:32:30.710 --> 00:32:35.589But I think in every one ofthese cases we can also find something42000:32:36.069 --> 00:32:40.509positive even in the midst of whatthey were going through, even in the42100:32:40.589 --> 00:32:45.220midst of that suffering. For Jeremiah, he was proven right and he did42200:32:45.299 --> 00:32:47.579get to see that day. Yeah, he did get to see that everything42300:32:47.660 --> 00:32:58.259he had prophesied actually came to pass. Give me our love for love,42400:33:00.970 --> 00:33:10.009give me our love for gratitude.I know it will cost me my love.42500:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.160No things too precious in some you