Gleaning Wisdom From Pro-Life Pioneers Tim and Terri Palmquist

0:00 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me, Lord, I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. This episode we're going to do an interview with Tim and Terry Palm Quiz, Pro Life Pioneers. We've been in this battle for a long time and we're going to talk to them about how they got involved. Stick with us. I felt show passis touch your heart. All right. Well, welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. Appreciate all those who join. I had have with me today here Tim and Terry Palm Quist. All right, and these guys I just met them actually just on a hour and a half or so ago. You'd reached out to me email. The email a couple of days ago you guys are going to be in town and I thought, Hey, man, I got these pro life pioneers in town here in Charlotte and really wanted to take the opportunity to get you guys to share your story, share where the Lord is kind of brought you guys from and where he's bringing you to share. Just you know, we get into some of the pro life history stuff. This this podcast just focused on bringing the Gospel and talking about the necessity of the Gospel and we're talking about the issue of abortion and I know that you guys heart, and just a little bit that I've heard from you, Tim especially, it's just your heart, you know, of course, is to save babies, but also to proclaim the gospel.

1:27 Share real quick just a little bit about you guys. Maybe how long you've been in pro life ministry and what kind of ministry you've been involved in and that sort of thing, if you don't mind. Right. Well, we started in pro life ministry aboutout nineteen eighty six are our first child was born. We married eighty five and got cot pregnant on our honeymoon and as our first child was born. That's really pro life right there. Didn't, didn't intend it that way, but God, God did. Yeah, yeah, we were the typical well, we'll have two or three kids. Yeah, thing a couple of years. Yes, sure, and so we had our first child and he was in hospital for ten days afterwards and and just got to see a lot of lot of struggling children there. And Yeah, sure, son. And there was another, another baby that we got to know that was born at Twenty, twenty two weeks, I think. Was Little Baby Caleb worn of twenty two weeks. That also touched us before, just before our before we are married, I had a radio program and she was handing my calls and and this lady called us saying that her son was born and and you know, his life was just hanging in the balance. And so I end up going to this child in his hospital, seeing this little baby that's the size of my hand. Yeah, yeah, really frustrated her

3:00 because she was going, how in the world can people abort a baby the size of my son? Yeah, it just really touched her and we became really good friends. Yeah, but you know, I grew up in a family my dad was in Christian radio and you know, very, very Christian, conservative Christian family. Yeah, but you know, my memories in one thousand nine hundred and seventy three I was I was twelve years old. And yet my memories of the Church, Christians reacting to the the Ro versus weight decision are non existent. I have tons of memories of my dad and other people, you know, other other people I knew, being outraged over various aspects of what was going on with Nixon. Yeah, I remember those things happening. I remember the day Nixon left on that helicopter. I remember that quiet well, but I remember nothing of anybody speaking out about abortion. Yeah, and so you know it was. It was years later that kind of long haired young man who was part of the Calvary Chappel movement had a radio program on my dad's station and he started playing this from a guy, Gary S Paxton. Okay, old song, first first song I ever heard that dealt with this. It's kind of a interesting to call the song, but

4:33 it's called the big a equals the big M. Okay, here the little heartbeat, it would go. And so I heard this song that ends with a flat line of you know, you have a baby's heartbeat throughout the song. At the end it is flat line. Yeah, it is my creation. You killed it. Yeah, wow. So you know, I went. We weren't hearing about it in Church and we weren't hearing about it much at home, but you know, for this this thing we heard on the radio and the people calling into my radio show and we had a young woman who called us from a community told us she was pregnant and we tried to figure out how to help or didn't know what to do, because she was saying she was going to Aboord her baby. She just wanted prayer and turned out, long and the short of it that she was lying about the whole thing and she was just doing it to get attention. But God used that to get us thinking towards what are we going to do about this situation?

5:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, a lot of Christians sort of. You know, I was. I was a believer for a couple of years until I really and before I really got really the Lord got a hold of me over the issue of abortion. Like you know, we believe abortions bag because we know it's killing a Cho out. It's bad, but it is a really anything we can do about it. It's really thing that I'm called to do about. I mean we're called just to preach the Gospel, right. We're not called to go out and deal with political issues, and it's because we're duped by the devil, I believe, as a church, into believing in church has been for a long time and believing that abortion is a political issue. It's really not. It's really not political issue at all. So talk a little bit about how the Lord got you involved in in pro life work. I know you guys were involved in the rescue movement and stuff like that. So talk a little bit about your heart, as far as God's heart in your heart and getting you involved in that extreme level of pro life involvement that some people think it is. Well, we knew before we were married. One of the things that kind of brought us together.

6:33 We knew each other about seven years before we were married. But and I we had been together in high school and then when I went off to college, I decided to leave her behind and go try out some other relationships with girls and till in high school time year. She's two years younger than me. So I know you can't. Can't go to college and have a high school girl. Yeah, from my school. So anyway, eventually I come back to her, as she knew I would always come back to her. So, but how? I forgot what I was going to say. Just getting involved in the rescue movement, and that's sort of thing right. This was this was early, early s I'm talking about. But when we wanted to talk about getting married, he had basically at some point decided he didn't even think he needed to get married. He didn't want it. He just wanted to serve God. That's what. That's the point I was going to say, and the thing that she kind of hooked me back in with was, you know, we can serve got better together than we can separately.

7:34 He was and so we got married planning to serve God and we had already had, you know, a few little influences toward doing something about abortion. But I was still just thinking of Inner City Ministry. I wanted to move to Jackson, MISSISSIPPI BE A part of ministry, two people in the inner city, because there's a ministry there we were familiar with. And you know, so when you get pregnant on your honeymoon, it kind of changes your perspective on Yes, and so she's taking your ministry focused. Are We? Are we going to move to Jackson Mississippi, with the being pregnant and all that, and my and her mom was her mom's health wasn't good thing. So she's singing. Is there something we can do around here? Where we do around here is going to make a difference? And so we heard about a pregnancy center about thirty minutes from us. We were in a little town called Dalano, California, and so we had to go down to Bakersfield be a part of this pregnancy center and we not train. We got trained, but we couldn't finish the training because she had a breast infection and baby had to be in a hospital or different things like that, and we never could finish it. Never could finish the training. And so she finally says, kind of out of frustration, you know, what I really would like to do is talk to girl, girls who are actually going in for abortion.

8:46 Does anybody do that? Uh Huh, and they said Yeah, they actually is a group that does that. It turned out the group that went out on the sidewalk had started a couple of years before that and the pregnancy center had been founded by some of the same people there, and so they were familiar with what they did there. So we went out on the sidewalk and got to know these people that were ministering your girls going in. And you know, honestly, for about the first six months we are standing there. We want to we want to be there, we want to be used when, want to be effective, but I personally am standing there thinking, how do you, how do you talk to these people? Yet how do you find the words to say, yeah, so girls about to go in and have maybe killed you know. Yeah, and so we're kind of standing in awe of these people who are talking to the girls going in and praying and just thinking, wow, these are like spiritual giants, letting US stand next to him. And eventually a woman comes in. The first one that, I think, correct me if I'm wrong here, I think this is the first one that you was pretty much there by myself, you really had an impact on. Is this woman who comes in, she has a little baby and she doesn't speak English. Okay, little baby, she has to do something with this maybe very sick baby, to oxy, she has to do something on it, with a tube and cleaning out the baby's throat or something, and she doesn't speak a word of English. Yeah, Terry didn't speak a word of Spanish, and yet this girl, this woman, is going in and to the abortion center. Yeah, he brought her baby with her, brought her little sickly baby with her because she had to have her.

10:20 And so then I somehow, with God's guidance, yeah, was able to convince her to get in, because she had taken the bus, get into my car and I drove her crosstown to the pregnancy center. Yeah, and they found someone that spoke Spanish and she ended up keeping her baby. Yeah, right, well, so that that was and even then, even after that, you know, it's still well, okay, Currie Curry is there and I'm just kind of there the supporter because, you know, as a man, I felt like what what do I yeah say? And that's one of the things that we find out. You were just out on the sidewalk earlier with us and you notice we had there were two men out there, actually three, four. I guess I would include myself as a man.

11:01 So they're like four of US guys out there, and I get some of that from men who come out and they have a burden for this thing. They want to do something about abortion, like this was a woman's issue. The fact is this is really a man's issue and if we could reach that young man that's brought his girlfriend for an abortion, we can also influence her him to influence her. It's pretty powerful and some of our most effective sidewalk counselors actually man. But so yeah, I mean, you know, the devil allies to us. We, you know, kind of allow ourselves to be confused by some of the world's understanding of stuff. This is really a man's issue too. So it's good to see, from my respect, of a couple serving the Lord together and that capacity and seeing the necessity for, you know, husband of wife to be serving in the way. You can sort of tag team this thing right. Pretty cool. You guys have been doing that for a long time, right about fifteen to twenty years after we started. You know, Terry was Terry was leading a group in a vacation Bible school at our church, Baptist Church that we went to there in Bakersfield, and this this little boy was part of her group and he prayed to accept Christ there in her group and later we learned that his father, the little boys father, said that I was there when they went into abort the baby, that I was there telling him that you need to be a real man, you need to stand up for your baby, and I you know,

12:35 at that time I don't that. I don't know if that was the first one I heard of that I had made a difference in, but honestly, you know, for many, many years there I was there ministering with Terry and I was mainly supporting her. I would talk from time to time, but I just felt like she's a lot more effective than yeah, I want them to hear the most effective voice and sometimes if I'm the only one there, then I got to be the one that talks. But I didn't. I didn't want to always be the one talking because I felt like she's just so much more effected than I was. But this, this guy told me that I was there yes, an amazing how the word lets us that exact me where to the chances, you know, and just random chance of events? No Way. That was God in his Providence, sort of letting you hear. Right then, if you know you were effective in that and that this child whose life was physically saved, the God used me to physically save his life and then Churie was there to pray with this child to accept Christ, that's amazing. But that is amazing. There's no such thing as accidents, there's no such thing as just fate or whatever. This is the providence of God moving. That's that's powerful. So if you could talk a little bit about because I'm interesting and I told you I'm interested in sort of the pro life movement history and you know, if I've had flip on and I want to have him on again, hopefully pretty soon, talking about the rescue movement, him being the president of that or the director of Operation Rescue for a while. But you guys are involved in that movement. was well, you involved when it first got started or you sort of jumped on board with that after that. We we roundell terry had come to Baker's field,

14:09 right, and or our church. We were involved when it first started in California, but I believe it was in Atlanta and then New Jersey, probably a year or so before it came. Yeah, for you. Yeah, some folks might not even have a clue when I'm talking about rescue movement or you know whatever. Describe a little bit of what that means, what it means when people say Operation Rescue, Rescue Movement and that sort of thing. When we heard about them doing the holy week rescues, okay, remember back what year would be. Thousand nine hundred and eighty nine, I think. Okay, we because even a sidewalk counseling, believe it or not. I was kind of shy to do it. Yeah, and when we went down to La in Bakersfield, it's more conservative. We don't have the pro boorts in our face or anything like yeah, but when we were when we were down there, I was just going to sidewalk counsel. I wasn't going to risk arrest. And what they do is they would actually place themselves in front of the doors and not allow anyone to go in because they didn't want babies to be killed. And we were taught that we need to be peaceful, yeah, respectful and pray, and it was, it was. It was an awesome time, but I was just counseling. Yeah, and so I was able to try to talk to girls, but the pro bourts had those big keep abortion legal sign okay, and they would surround the girl and there's no way you could. So I had to raise my voice. Yeah,

15:41 and I came out of my comfort zone. UH, yell, please, let us talk to you. And they had surrounded this girl in a car and didn't want her to look at us or anything. But pretty soon she ends up, the driver backs up and she ended up leaving. Yeah, so that encourage me and made me more vocal when I came back to Bakersfield. Yeah, so the rescue movement basically in conjunction with what sidewalk counselors are already doing. The rescue movement what it's heart was to put it self, put themselves between the woman who's going into the abortion clinic and the abortionist and basically they would, through civil disobedience, block the door. But there's some you know, I know listen, of course, if you listen to the media about this, you read some of the stories from back in those days, it was a lot of hyped up and like these are a bunch of violent people that were just doing they it wasn't a civil disobedience in their eyes, it was just violence and just angry and it's like, man, and I look back at some of the old videos from the rescues and I listened to people like you, you, like yourself, talk about the rescue movement, it's like these are just God loving people, loving individuals. Like it or lump it, they were doing the best they can with what they knew to try to interpose, to try to stand between that that mother and that abortionist and then ultimately, working in conjunction with the sidewalk counsel, try to convince her to choose life. And there were I don't know how many, maybe you guys do. I would say thousands, yes, babies that were saved through that. So if you could share. You've already shared one powerful

17:17 testimony. Share a testimony, whether it's from, you know, the rescue sort of thing going on with operation rescuer, whether it's too sidewalk counseling. Maybe share a story that you guys have experienced. Another one. Well, Terry, where is? Terry was out a woman had lost her baby at about Betty, she lost her baby about fourteen weeks. Is that what it was? And so she the doctor had allowed her to bring her baby home for some reason in a jar, and she felt like I want my baby, Baby Anthony, to be useful in some way. I feel like God has something he wants to do with my baby, and so she ended up allowing Terry to bring her baby in the jar out in the sidewalk, and Terry was very careful with it because she got I know people are going to go what. Yeah, I know it look creepy, a little weird, but lord use us. And it was in a cardboard box and I only used it if I would ask a girl, you know, Oh, you're twelve weeks. Well, you know, I have a little baby that's fourteen weeks. Would you want to see the baby? Yeah, and if she did I would show it, show him, Anthony, yeah, to here and they were amazed and we showed five, five people the baby, and out of the five, four change their minds. Yeah, they're baby,

18:48 and three ended up asking Jesus into their heart. Okay. Yeah, so it was used very effectively. But it wasn't long before the abortion business caught wind of it and they actually called the corner. Okay, there, and it became a big media thing that, you know, the news. The News said that night that Terry was parading up and down the sidewalk showing this fetus in the jar to, yeah, everybody, as if she was just waving it around. Yeah, and so, you know, they made a big, big, you know girls, very fake news. Yeah, if it was viable even, okay, yeah, crazy, yeah, okay, wow, right. So, yeah, that's a little, right, little, little hypocritical of them. Right, by God. Used that effectively and it wasn't long after that that you met Jackie out in the sidewalk, who young woman who was there with her young granddaughter and she herself thought that she might be pregnant and she was watching her granddaughter, who was a bathe and allowed children in the of course, clinning. So here I am. I had never met her before and she I don't know if I volunteered or what, but I said, well, I can, because back then they would just do the pregnancy tests and they would call them back in a couple of hours to let him know what the results were. Huh. And so I watched her baby, grand baby out there while she went she went in and then we exchanged phone numbers. But she had told me if I'm pregnant,

20:19 I'm going to have to have an abortion. I just got in shape. She was going to be correctional officer. Her youngest was like five, I guess, and her whole new life was going to start, yeah, over, you know, and the father of her baby was married to somebody else and was a deacon in a in the church, and so, you know, it just like we can't do this. Yeah, anyway, that became a lifelong still relationship. We yeah, we just just yesterday, day before you were still talking to her about something. But we told her that we would, I said, will adopt her baby, Uh Huh, you know, and she was a black lady. Yeah, and we're great friends.

21:02 And she said you really would, and I said Yeah, sure, you know, and so we kept an off and on she'd still think she might need to abort. I got to be at the birth of the baby. Yeah, and then once she saw him she said sorry, Terry, I'm keeping them and yeah, that's fine. We never even got to have him for a single night. Yeah, yeah, so you went through this sort of up and down a lot of you know, I love her a lot of side well, cancels. Know exactly what you're talking about. Like you connect with the MOMS. She chooses live and the next day she says, I just don't think I can do this, and you know. So you're in that prayer sort of tension and like God, move on her heart. You don't let her get back. Yeah, we've experienced that several times. It school how the Lord can bring those stories about. And even you have a relationship now this, this lady's your friend. That's twenty eight years ago.

21:48 That having twenty eight years ago. So wow, that's that's and he's he's even saying at some of our dinners and stuff. Oh, okay, when he was younger. Yeah, yeah, that's that's so all. Thank you for thank you for giving to the Lord. He's saying that song. What was I supposed to be. So it was. Yeah, yeah, that's powerful. God definitely blessed us by having that relationship over the yeah, now you'd cheered earlier. I could be misquoting you on this, but you know, you gas were involved, at least in some way involved, in the life chain movement and sort of the beginning stages of that. Talk took a little bit about that. Well, this was during the rescue days when, you know, there was a big flash of attention and a lot of a lot of things happening for the Holy Week in California, and then after that a lot of people got arrested and it's like well, wow, there was there was a big price to pay there, because they really cracked down on them there in La with numchucks and all this stuff. Yeah, and so there were a lot of people saying, is there something else we can do? You know, we're not sure how long we can keep doing these rescues, and during that time we heard of this life chain idea that had happened up in Uba city, Marysville. Man Named Royce Dunn had the idea of just holding this sign that says abortion kills children. Yeah, at the time it was just that one sign and no other message. You just felt like that's the message God gave him. Abortion kills children. Yeah, and so we ended up getting in touch with the guy who was the head of that in Bakersfield and he was he was actually, he had actually been at

23:22 that same rescue that Terry talked about where the the pro aboards were surrounding the car with their keep abortion legal sign. They're trying to keep her from being able to talk to this girl. He was videotaping that. We Terry called him and thinking maybe we should have a rescue in Baker's right, because he was ahead of Operation Rescue in Bakersfield, even though we hadn't had any rescues in Bakersfield. And so we called him to see what we could do with that and he said wait, who are you? And and he realized at that very moment he had been editing a video. He had been he had a video of that rescue, of that very moment when she called, he was looking at a video of her, yeah, trying to save that baby's life. So we got a picture from him later of her her interceding for that baby, with this car also rounded with these people waiting lets for them yeah, and so we were. We were there with him throughout the time he was planning this Bakersfield life chain, which was the first one after the one Royce did in Uba City married Marysville, and as Bakersfield Life Chain, we he mapped out this huge area, miles of sidewalks and and had a church designated for each block and just a huge plan that he went to to do all this. His name was bill newsome, the man I'm referring to, and and ended up having eight thousand people on sidewalks on the streets of Bakersfield during that time and he formed across it was a it was a huge

24:56 miles long cross and and bill had the foresight to know this is something we need to have people know more about what we did here. So he even he hired videographers to take videos, okay, and he had a helicopter taken an aerial view of the whole thing, and so that video that he took in Bakersfield of that first Bakersfield life chain ended up being spread all across the country. The life chain is still to this day promoting that Bakersfield video. Yeah, as as the thing that got so many people across the country to realize we need to be getting out to the streets and standing for this message.

25:36 And it was primarily through the churches. It is primarily with bill, Bill knews. It was primarily something that he said. We got to get to the pastor's individually. Yeah, and it wasn't just you know, we need to go there until the pastor hey, you got to, you got to follow our agenda or you're worthless. It was we want to we want to support you in this, pastor, we're here, we're we're here to pray for you, we are here understanding that you need help and what we're doing. And you know, you go there not saying hey, pastor, we want you to solve this huge problem yourself, but here's something tangible that you can do, here's something. We're laying out the program here for you to follow and all we need to know is that, as a pastor, this is going to have your spiritual leadership in your congregation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's cool how the Lord can just grow things like that.

26:23 You know, we have locally. I shared with you, guys, and you've probably seen someone social media, Love Life, Charlotte's ministry, that's done something similar to that. Just bringing the people out to the abortion clinics pray and they've been a great partner with us. Even you know, some of the folks have come out to the prayer walks have taken it a step further and probably you guys experience that same thing that you know came in a hell to sign, but I want to do something else, and they come sidewalk counsel and get involved in that way. So it's really cool to see the Lord doing that. Talk a little bit about because, you know, starting out I said you know, and you agree, abortions not a political issue, but there are some political decisions that are made and there were some there are some things that we as believers can do in order to influence the politics.

27:06 I mean that. But really how it should take places is the politics follow the Church as the church leads, because we're supposed to be the conscience of society. Unfortunately, we've not been that in a lot of ways, but there are some ways that we have been, and I know you're involved with some of the political stuff and in particular the life amendment. Right, talk about that, talk about the the way the church can get him border get on war with that and why that's sort of a, you know, an important thing for us to understand. Well, one of the most important scriptures, I think, of the rescue movement, that it was talked about frequently, was, I believe, this Matthew Sixteen, where Jesus says to Peter the gates of hell will not prevail against my church, and to to understand what that meant, that the Church was confronting the gates of Hell.

27:59 Yeah, you know that we are, we are, we are going after the gates hell. But as in their last few years, as I've studied that, I've come to a new understanding, as I realize the word church is actually not really a good representation of what Jesus said in that scripture. Okay, Peter it. The word in Greek is ECCLESEA, and the word Ecclesia, or assembly, is something that has a rich background in both the Old Testament and in the Greek culture. You know, of course, that that was written in Greek. Yeah, and the Greek ECCLESSEA, that was hundreds of years before Christ, was the assembly, the political assembly of men of the community who came together to decide key issues in the community, in the Kay, in the community. These are the city states of classical Greek the community. The communities were the police, and that's where the word politics comes out of that community, where the ECCLESSEA was there deciding these issues.

29:07 And so when we say the gates of hell will not prevail against the ECCLESSEA, you know understand the assembly that there was a political connotation to that in its original meaning. And so you know, when Jesus calls us to occupy until he comes, and you know, even though we are we are not citizens of this world, that we are citizens of Heaven, we are to be faithful in the tasks that he has given us here. Yeah, as citizens of our nation, we have all authority is given to us by God, and so we have the authority that God has given to us as citizens of our nation to be involved in the political process, to be involved in not just voting but in in political efforts to raise awareness about things, and so I think it's part of our calling to be salt and light in the society that we need to be reaching for efforts to protect people of all of all kinds. Yeah, and you know, abortion is not political issue, it's a people issue, okay, and just like a lot of things that politicians deal with affect people and a lot of things churches deal with affect people.

30:25 Yeah, and so abortion is one of those things. It's affecting real people, that child in its mother's womb. Ninety seven percent of biologists, a recent study, study recently came out saying that ninety seven percent of biologists agree that human life begins at the point of fertilization, conception, when the sperm and egg meet. Yeah, and so this is something that, you know, those who advocate taking away the lives of these children in the womb are really science deniers. Those who say that's not a baby, that's not a human being. These are the worst kind of science deniers, where they really basic basic genetics to know this baby in the womb is a human being.

31:07 Yeah, and so the life amendment is an effort to simply say, and it's very it's a very short thing, that simply say that a human being is considered legally a person from the earliest point of its development. Yeah, and so it doesn't go into a lot of detail about abortion or anything like that, because if you use that word person, it links in with the Fifth Amendment, in the Fourteenth Amendment especially the fourteen that talks about the protections of you can't deny a person of life or liberty without due process. Yeah, and so the due process this isn't it's not in any way taking away from the personhood of a woman. Women as well deserve due process, but the baby deserves due process, yeah, or it's life is taken away.

32:00 And so the life amendment is an effort constitutionally in our federal constitution to have what you've probably the personhood movement. Yes, the country quite a bit. It's a it's a federal personhood effort. But the difference is that a federal constitutional amendment is something the Supreme Court can't strike it down, they can't tinker with it. It's a constitutional amendment. It actually sets the rules that the Supreme Court itself has to live yeah. So they have to, they have to adhere to that as part of the constitution because they're there, yeah, required uphold. So what is the language exactly and what you guys have proposed in the in the life amendment? Well, I don't have the exact language, members, but basically it's that from the beginning of the development of a human being it would be considered a person. Okay, it's a very, very so basically it's just an invitation for everyone to catch it with reality that this is a person and for the government to catch it with that reality and say, basically, all of the constitutional protections that are in the bill of rights and the constitution apply even to a person in the womb. Right.

33:14 Okay, let's go. Website Life Amendment Dot Org is going to ask if there was a particular website. Someone be good specific wording on their life amendment dot Org. But the real person whose passion brought this about, this life amendment website, is a man that many people probably are familiar with, Dr Don Smith. He was the the the produce sure, of the silent screen video Manka many years ago. Remember that video and while since I watched it, but it's powerful. He passed away in January at about ninety five years old. I think he was little, little, little short of his ninety five birthday. But God, God used him for many years, but in the last few years we had the opportunity of working with him on this life amendment effort and the things, the way this whole life men was constructed in the things, most of the things on our website and our pamphlets we hand out, those were all written by by him and his final years.

34:08 Yeah, so it's talked about a pro life pioneer. It's just been amazing to have the opportunity the last few years as he was in his in his rest home, we talked to him frequently there. This was his passion until his final days. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I know for sure for me personally. You know I'm around Flip Benham. You guys know him on a regular basis and been exposed to other people that have been in per life ministry for a long time and I've been able to just clean a lot of wisdom and and just talking to you guys and just this little bit of time that we've known each other, been able to draw out some wisdom for sure. And just the last couple of minutes, because I wrap this thing up, if that's all right with you, guys, share if you could, some wisdom, maybe some some things that that you know for those who are kind of brand new in dealing with the issue of abortion. Maybe those a lot of folks that they listen to our podcast are involved in sidewalk counseling and maybe just newly involved in it and maybe some other people, you know, whatever reason to listen this podcast. What are some maybe I don't know, maybe some of the warnings or just some nuggets of wisdom that you would speak to somebody just brand new getting into this, this battle for the unborn?

35:24 Well, in terms of dealing with people directly who are going in for abortion, that's been the major focus of our ministry over the years, though we've done a lot of different things, including life amendment things like that, but the you know, one of the best pieces of wisdom I got was about probably fifteen years ago when when Franklin Graham was coming to Bakersfield for one of his festivals, and we've had an opportunity to see Franklin Graham many times over the years and really appreciate his boldness and speaking out abortion. In this particular situation, he didn't talk about abortion at all. I don't recall him speaking of abortion specifically at that time, but we were going to be a part of the effort in terms of just counseling people at the end and there's a training class they have you go through and part of that that's I'm assuming, has been part of the Billy Graham training probably for years before Franklin himself was the evangelist there. But part of that was just really key to me when it talked about when you're taught, when you're trying to reach somebody, you need to address their significance and their security. Okay, those two key things I think are so important as we're dealing with people on this issue.

36:46 Significance, both to the mother and to the baby. Yeah, to understand mom, you are significant in the eyes of God. You matter to God and your baby matters too. Yeah. And the security is to say to the mother, we're here to help you. Yeah, God isn't. You're not alone here. You know, there are people that are going to help you through this. Yeah. And so we need to consider the significance and security of women as we're dealing with them. And that same training went on to talk about things that are roadblocks to relationships and talk talked about there as I think, five days it goes through. I know if I can remember remember them all, but demeaning, demanding, dogmatic, all these things that, you know, if you're kind of saying you got to do it my way to this woman and kind of trying to push her into your mold instead of saying, you know, there's a God here who is wanting to help you through this. If we're trying to push them with our human ability instead of letting God use us in this situation, then things don't turn out so well and they put up roadblocks. And yes, do. But I guess really found that training from from the Grand Organization to be just nugget of wisdom that every pro lifers should consider. Yeah, yeah, it's good stuff.

38:07 It's sort of along the lines, you know, because we do trainings as a ministry for sidewall counseling and we have three points that we encourage sidewall counselors to touch on. We say, talk about what God says. What God says about abortion, of course, but what God says about the mother and the baby, that he loves them, that he cares about them. So that's sort of speaks to that whole seeing their values should the significance that they have. And then we say, you know, talk about the humanity to the baby. Baby's hearts already beating. Your baby has ten fingers, ten toes, at all that. So give humanity to the baby. And the third point that we tell people is resources. Talk about the things are available in the mobilt, your sound unit, this right theory, pregnancy centers, prenatal care, all these other things. It's sort of sort of Rud along the lines of what you're saying. It's not rocket science. It's pretty pretty simple things. If we look at it from in our perspective, being in difficult situations, what are the things that speaks to us? What are the things that helps calm the storm? And it's exactly like, like you said.

39:04 Well, makes me think of to flip been, I'm phrase, but it just makes me think of letting our theology become biography. Yeah, yeah, it's all, yeah, exactly. Well with that, I'm going to wrap this thing up. I do appreciate you guys coming and in sharing your heart, sharing your experiences. I know that it'll have an effect. Certainly had an effect on me and I know how effect on others. I want to encourage those who are listening with check out these guys website. As far as the life amendment, you said Life Amendment Dot Org or is that right? And you guys have a website locally for your ministry and what you guys are involved in. What's that website, glorified Jesuscom. I like that. That's really good. Glorified Jesuscom. That's what this is about. So you can check those guys out. I'll put that in the description in the podcast itself so people can get to those websites. Also, we have a website as a ministry that we always mentioned, and that's www dot sidewalks for lifecom, sidewalks and number for Lifecom, which is a Gospel Center, sidewalk counseling website with training videos and and we put out blog posts on a regular basis talking about how to be effective in certain areas and and that sort of thing.

40:09 You can connect with me also at d parks, D parks, at cities for Lifecom and our website, Charlotte dot cities for Life Dot Org. And appreciate you, guys. Come appreciate all those who listen and until next time, God bless, use, mill use, give me, give me. It will cost me my life, but these two precious inside