Gleaning Wisdom From Pro-Life Pioneers Tim and Terri Palmquist

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.799I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me,200:00:06.160 --> 00:00:10.789Lord, I am yours. Welcometo the Gospel Center pro life podcast.300:00:11.070 --> 00:00:14.189This episode we're going to do aninterview with Tim and Terry Palm Quiz,400:00:14.390 --> 00:00:17.429Pro Life Pioneers. We've been inthis battle for a long time and500:00:17.510 --> 00:00:20.350we're going to talk to them abouthow they got involved. Stick with us.600:00:23.699 --> 00:00:32.460I felt show passis touch your heart. All right. Well, welcome700:00:32.460 --> 00:00:36.450to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. Appreciate all those who join. I800:00:36.530 --> 00:00:41.450had have with me today here Timand Terry Palm Quist. All right,900:00:42.409 --> 00:00:46.250and these guys I just met themactually just on a hour and a half1000:00:46.250 --> 00:00:50.640or so ago. You'd reached outto me email. The email a couple1100:00:50.640 --> 00:00:53.320of days ago you guys are goingto be in town and I thought,1200:00:53.359 --> 00:00:57.719Hey, man, I got thesepro life pioneers in town here in Charlotte1300:00:58.119 --> 00:01:02.159and really wanted to take the opportunityto get you guys to share your story,1400:01:02.280 --> 00:01:04.790share where the Lord is kind ofbrought you guys from and where he's1500:01:04.790 --> 00:01:07.829bringing you to share. Just youknow, we get into some of the1600:01:07.870 --> 00:01:12.549pro life history stuff. This thispodcast just focused on bringing the Gospel and1700:01:12.909 --> 00:01:17.390talking about the necessity of the Gospeland we're talking about the issue of abortion1800:01:17.510 --> 00:01:21.060and I know that you guys heart, and just a little bit that I've1900:01:21.180 --> 00:01:23.019heard from you, Tim especially,it's just your heart, you know,2000:01:23.099 --> 00:01:26.500of course, is to save babies, but also to proclaim the gospel.2100:01:27.780 --> 00:01:33.329Share real quick just a little bitabout you guys. Maybe how long you've2200:01:33.329 --> 00:01:37.049been in pro life ministry and whatkind of ministry you've been involved in and2300:01:37.090 --> 00:01:38.489that sort of thing, if youdon't mind. Right. Well, we2400:01:38.569 --> 00:01:46.810started in pro life ministry aboutout nineteeneighty six are our first child was born.2500:01:48.200 --> 00:01:52.959We married eighty five and got cotpregnant on our honeymoon and as our2600:01:53.040 --> 00:01:57.400first child was born. That's reallypro life right there. Didn't, didn't2700:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.000intend it that way, but God, God did. Yeah, yeah,2800:02:00.040 --> 00:02:04.750we were the typical well, we'llhave two or three kids. Yeah,2900:02:05.030 --> 00:02:07.909thing a couple of years. Yes, sure, and so we had our3000:02:07.990 --> 00:02:15.219first child and he was in hospitalfor ten days afterwards and and just got3100:02:15.300 --> 00:02:21.699to see a lot of lot ofstruggling children there. And Yeah, sure,3200:02:21.819 --> 00:02:27.979son. And there was another,another baby that we got to know3300:02:28.419 --> 00:02:32.889that was born at Twenty, twentytwo weeks, I think. Was Little3400:02:32.930 --> 00:02:39.370Baby Caleb worn of twenty two weeks. That also touched us before, just3500:02:39.569 --> 00:02:44.960before our before we are married,I had a radio program and she was3600:02:45.120 --> 00:02:50.080handing my calls and and this ladycalled us saying that her son was born3700:02:50.199 --> 00:02:53.960and and you know, his lifewas just hanging in the balance. And3800:02:53.080 --> 00:02:55.639so I end up going to thischild in his hospital, seeing this little3900:02:55.680 --> 00:03:00.629baby that's the size of my hand. Yeah, yeah, really frustrated her4000:03:00.909 --> 00:03:06.389because she was going, how inthe world can people abort a baby the4100:03:06.550 --> 00:03:10.270size of my son? Yeah,it just really touched her and we became4200:03:10.389 --> 00:03:14.219really good friends. Yeah, butyou know, I grew up in a4300:03:14.300 --> 00:03:17.460family my dad was in Christian radioand you know, very, very Christian,4400:03:19.699 --> 00:03:23.020conservative Christian family. Yeah, butyou know, my memories in one4500:03:23.020 --> 00:03:27.610thousand nine hundred and seventy three Iwas I was twelve years old. And4600:03:27.810 --> 00:03:36.009yet my memories of the Church,Christians reacting to the the Ro versus weight4700:03:36.129 --> 00:03:42.599decision are non existent. I havetons of memories of my dad and other4800:03:42.919 --> 00:03:46.639people, you know, other otherpeople I knew, being outraged over various4900:03:46.680 --> 00:03:52.479aspects of what was going on withNixon. Yeah, I remember those things5000:03:52.520 --> 00:03:57.669happening. I remember the day Nixonleft on that helicopter. I remember that5100:03:57.710 --> 00:04:00.710quiet well, but I remember nothingof anybody speaking out about abortion. Yeah,5200:04:00.909 --> 00:04:09.270and so you know it was.It was years later that kind of5300:04:12.419 --> 00:04:18.019long haired young man who was partof the Calvary Chappel movement had a radio5400:04:18.100 --> 00:04:25.449program on my dad's station and hestarted playing this from a guy, Gary5500:04:25.569 --> 00:04:29.529S Paxton. Okay, old song, first first song I ever heard that5600:04:30.370 --> 00:04:33.129dealt with this. It's kind ofa interesting to call the song, but5700:04:33.170 --> 00:04:38.410it's called the big a equals thebig M. Okay, here the little5800:04:38.569 --> 00:04:42.399heartbeat, it would go. Andso I heard this song that ends with5900:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.720a flat line of you know,you have a baby's heartbeat throughout the song.6000:04:46.879 --> 00:04:49.680At the end it is flat line. Yeah, it is my creation.6100:04:50.279 --> 00:04:55.990You killed it. Yeah, wow. So you know, I went.6200:04:56.069 --> 00:04:59.389We weren't hearing about it in Churchand we weren't hearing about it much6300:04:59.470 --> 00:05:01.990at home, but you know,for this this thing we heard on the6400:05:02.029 --> 00:05:08.620radio and the people calling into myradio show and we had a young woman6500:05:08.660 --> 00:05:13.939who called us from a community toldus she was pregnant and we tried to6600:05:14.019 --> 00:05:15.420figure out how to help or didn'tknow what to do, because she was6700:05:15.459 --> 00:05:20.420saying she was going to Aboord herbaby. She just wanted prayer and turned6800:05:20.449 --> 00:05:24.370out, long and the short ofit that she was lying about the whole6900:05:24.490 --> 00:05:28.769thing and she was just doing itto get attention. But God used that7000:05:28.889 --> 00:05:32.649to get us thinking towards what arewe going to do about this situation?7100:05:32.689 --> 00:05:35.839Yeah, yeah, yeah, youknow, a lot of Christians sort of.7200:05:36.120 --> 00:05:40.959You know, I was. Iwas a believer for a couple of7300:05:41.040 --> 00:05:45.759years until I really and before Ireally got really the Lord got a hold7400:05:45.800 --> 00:05:48.040of me over the issue of abortion. Like you know, we believe abortions7500:05:48.079 --> 00:05:50.870bag because we know it's killing aCho out. It's bad, but it7600:05:50.990 --> 00:05:55.230is a really anything we can doabout it. It's really thing that I'm7700:05:55.269 --> 00:05:57.709called to do about. I meanwe're called just to preach the Gospel,7800:05:57.870 --> 00:06:00.750right. We're not called to goout and deal with political issues, and7900:06:00.829 --> 00:06:03.189it's because we're duped by the devil, I believe, as a church,8000:06:03.269 --> 00:06:06.660into believing in church has been fora long time and believing that abortion is8100:06:06.660 --> 00:06:11.300a political issue. It's really not. It's really not political issue at all.8200:06:11.939 --> 00:06:15.100So talk a little bit about howthe Lord got you involved in in8300:06:15.300 --> 00:06:17.180pro life work. I know youguys were involved in the rescue movement and8400:06:17.889 --> 00:06:20.850stuff like that. So talk alittle bit about your heart, as far8500:06:20.889 --> 00:06:27.050as God's heart in your heart andgetting you involved in that extreme level of8600:06:27.209 --> 00:06:30.689pro life involvement that some people thinkit is. Well, we knew before8700:06:30.689 --> 00:06:33.720we were married. One of thethings that kind of brought us together.8800:06:33.720 --> 00:06:38.240We knew each other about seven yearsbefore we were married. But and I8900:06:39.600 --> 00:06:42.720we had been together in high schooland then when I went off to college,9000:06:42.720 --> 00:06:47.589I decided to leave her behind andgo try out some other relationships with9100:06:47.670 --> 00:06:51.149girls and till in high school timeyear. She's two years younger than me.9200:06:51.310 --> 00:06:54.670So I know you can't. Can'tgo to college and have a high9300:06:54.670 --> 00:07:00.269school girl. Yeah, from myschool. So anyway, eventually I come9400:07:00.350 --> 00:07:01.579back to her, as she knewI would always come back to her.9500:07:02.259 --> 00:07:09.019So, but how? I forgotwhat I was going to say. Just9600:07:09.100 --> 00:07:12.819getting involved in the rescue movement,and that's sort of thing right. This9700:07:13.060 --> 00:07:17.170was this was early, early sI'm talking about. But when we wanted9800:07:17.209 --> 00:07:23.490to talk about getting married, hehad basically at some point decided he didn't9900:07:23.529 --> 00:07:25.970even think he needed to get married. He didn't want it. He just10000:07:26.050 --> 00:07:28.610wanted to serve God. That's what. That's the point I was going to10100:07:28.649 --> 00:07:30.839say, and the thing that shekind of hooked me back in with was,10200:07:31.079 --> 00:07:34.160you know, we can serve gotbetter together than we can separately.10300:07:34.199 --> 00:07:39.439He was and so we got marriedplanning to serve God and we had already10400:07:39.439 --> 00:07:43.600had, you know, a fewlittle influences toward doing something about abortion.10500:07:43.800 --> 00:07:46.829But I was still just thinking ofInner City Ministry. I wanted to move10600:07:46.870 --> 00:07:49.670to Jackson, MISSISSIPPI BE A partof ministry, two people in the inner10700:07:49.790 --> 00:07:54.709city, because there's a ministry therewe were familiar with. And you know,10800:07:54.910 --> 00:07:58.939so when you get pregnant on yourhoneymoon, it kind of changes your10900:07:58.980 --> 00:08:01.939perspective on Yes, and so she'staking your ministry focused. Are We?11000:08:03.180 --> 00:08:07.500Are we going to move to JacksonMississippi, with the being pregnant and all11100:08:07.540 --> 00:08:11.139that, and my and her momwas her mom's health wasn't good thing.11200:08:11.220 --> 00:08:15.050So she's singing. Is there somethingwe can do around here? Where we11300:08:15.129 --> 00:08:18.889do around here is going to makea difference? And so we heard about11400:08:18.250 --> 00:08:22.050a pregnancy center about thirty minutes fromus. We were in a little town11500:08:22.089 --> 00:08:26.199called Dalano, California, and sowe had to go down to Bakersfield be11600:08:26.240 --> 00:08:31.200a part of this pregnancy center andwe not train. We got trained,11700:08:31.279 --> 00:08:35.840but we couldn't finish the training becauseshe had a breast infection and baby had11800:08:35.879 --> 00:08:39.480to be in a hospital or differentthings like that, and we never could11900:08:39.480 --> 00:08:41.389finish it. Never could finish thetraining. And so she finally says,12000:08:41.389 --> 00:08:43.590kind of out of frustration, youknow, what I really would like to12100:08:43.710 --> 00:08:46.950do is talk to girl, girlswho are actually going in for abortion.12200:08:46.990 --> 00:08:50.590Does anybody do that? Uh Huh, and they said Yeah, they actually12300:08:50.710 --> 00:08:54.669is a group that does that.It turned out the group that went out12400:08:54.710 --> 00:08:58.019on the sidewalk had started a coupleof years before that and the pregnancy center12500:09:00.299 --> 00:09:03.379had been founded by some of thesame people there, and so they were12600:09:03.419 --> 00:09:05.500familiar with what they did there.So we went out on the sidewalk and12700:09:05.580 --> 00:09:09.769got to know these people that wereministering your girls going in. And you12800:09:09.889 --> 00:09:16.129know, honestly, for about thefirst six months we are standing there.12900:09:16.169 --> 00:09:18.009We want to we want to bethere, we want to be used when,13000:09:18.049 --> 00:09:22.889want to be effective, but Ipersonally am standing there thinking, how13100:09:22.970 --> 00:09:24.120do you, how do you talkto these people? Yet how do you13200:09:24.240 --> 00:09:28.679find the words to say, yeah, so girls about to go in and13300:09:28.759 --> 00:09:31.480have maybe killed you know. Yeah, and so we're kind of standing in13400:09:31.720 --> 00:09:35.519awe of these people who are talkingto the girls going in and praying and13500:09:35.639 --> 00:09:39.029just thinking, wow, these arelike spiritual giants, letting US stand next13600:09:39.070 --> 00:09:46.110to him. And eventually a womancomes in. The first one that,13700:09:46.350 --> 00:09:48.669I think, correct me if I'mwrong here, I think this is the13800:09:48.710 --> 00:09:52.070first one that you was pretty muchthere by myself, you really had an13900:09:52.429 --> 00:09:54.419impact on. Is this woman whocomes in, she has a little baby14000:09:54.700 --> 00:09:58.299and she doesn't speak English. Okay, little baby, she has to do14100:09:58.460 --> 00:10:01.980something with this maybe very sick baby, to oxy, she has to do14200:10:03.139 --> 00:10:05.220something on it, with a tubeand cleaning out the baby's throat or something,14300:10:05.299 --> 00:10:09.529and she doesn't speak a word ofEnglish. Yeah, Terry didn't speak14400:10:09.529 --> 00:10:11.570a word of Spanish, and yetthis girl, this woman, is going14500:10:11.649 --> 00:10:16.330in and to the abortion center.Yeah, he brought her baby with her,14600:10:16.649 --> 00:10:18.889brought her little sickly baby with herbecause she had to have her.14700:10:20.090 --> 00:10:26.080And so then I somehow, withGod's guidance, yeah, was able to14800:10:26.120 --> 00:10:28.759convince her to get in, becauseshe had taken the bus, get into14900:10:28.840 --> 00:10:35.120my car and I drove her crosstownto the pregnancy center. Yeah, and15000:10:35.240 --> 00:10:39.029they found someone that spoke Spanish andshe ended up keeping her baby. Yeah,15100:10:39.070 --> 00:10:43.149right, well, so that thatwas and even then, even after15200:10:43.269 --> 00:10:46.629that, you know, it's stillwell, okay, Currie Curry is there15300:10:46.710 --> 00:10:48.470and I'm just kind of there thesupporter because, you know, as a15400:10:48.590 --> 00:10:52.500man, I felt like what whatdo I yeah say? And that's one15500:10:52.500 --> 00:10:56.059of the things that we find out. You were just out on the sidewalk15600:10:56.379 --> 00:10:58.299earlier with us and you notice wehad there were two men out there,15700:10:58.860 --> 00:11:01.899actually three, four. I guessI would include myself as a man.15800:11:01.940 --> 00:11:05.450So they're like four of US guysout there, and I get some of15900:11:05.529 --> 00:11:09.250that from men who come out andthey have a burden for this thing.16000:11:09.649 --> 00:11:11.889They want to do something about abortion, like this was a woman's issue.16100:11:13.169 --> 00:11:16.809The fact is this is really aman's issue and if we could reach that16200:11:16.929 --> 00:11:20.120young man that's brought his girlfriend foran abortion, we can also influence her16300:11:20.159 --> 00:11:26.120him to influence her. It's prettypowerful and some of our most effective sidewalk16400:11:26.159 --> 00:11:28.360counselors actually man. But so yeah, I mean, you know, the16500:11:28.440 --> 00:11:33.230devil allies to us. We,you know, kind of allow ourselves to16600:11:33.269 --> 00:11:37.470be confused by some of the world'sunderstanding of stuff. This is really a16700:11:37.549 --> 00:11:41.629man's issue too. So it's goodto see, from my respect, of16800:11:41.950 --> 00:11:45.590a couple serving the Lord together andthat capacity and seeing the necessity for,16900:11:45.710 --> 00:11:46.940you know, husband of wife tobe serving in the way. You can17000:11:46.980 --> 00:11:50.179sort of tag team this thing right. Pretty cool. You guys have been17100:11:50.179 --> 00:11:54.940doing that for a long time,right about fifteen to twenty years after we17200:11:54.179 --> 00:12:03.570started. You know, Terry wasTerry was leading a group in a vacation17300:12:03.649 --> 00:12:07.330Bible school at our church, BaptistChurch that we went to there in Bakersfield,17400:12:07.490 --> 00:12:13.250and this this little boy was partof her group and he prayed to17500:12:13.330 --> 00:12:20.519accept Christ there in her group andlater we learned that his father, the17600:12:20.879 --> 00:12:28.039little boys father, said that Iwas there when they went into abort the17700:12:28.120 --> 00:12:31.350baby, that I was there tellinghim that you need to be a real17800:12:31.470 --> 00:12:35.830man, you need to stand upfor your baby, and I you know,17900:12:35.950 --> 00:12:37.950at that time I don't that.I don't know if that was the18000:12:37.110 --> 00:12:41.509first one I heard of that Ihad made a difference in, but honestly,18100:12:41.629 --> 00:12:45.340you know, for many, manyyears there I was there ministering with18200:12:45.419 --> 00:12:48.179Terry and I was mainly supporting her. I would talk from time to time,18300:12:48.299 --> 00:12:50.700but I just felt like she's alot more effective than yeah, I18400:12:50.899 --> 00:12:56.100want them to hear the most effectivevoice and sometimes if I'm the only one18500:12:56.139 --> 00:12:58.809there, then I got to bethe one that talks. But I didn't.18600:13:00.049 --> 00:13:03.210I didn't want to always be theone talking because I felt like she's18700:13:03.289 --> 00:13:05.450just so much more effected than Iwas. But this, this guy told18800:13:05.490 --> 00:13:09.049me that I was there yes,an amazing how the word lets us that18900:13:09.169 --> 00:13:13.240exact me where to the chances,you know, and just random chance of19000:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.240events? No Way. That wasGod in his Providence, sort of letting19100:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.399you hear. Right then, ifyou know you were effective in that and19200:13:20.480 --> 00:13:24.559that this child whose life was physicallysaved, the God used me to physically19300:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.830save his life and then Churie wasthere to pray with this child to accept19400:13:28.870 --> 00:13:31.230Christ, that's amazing. But thatis amazing. There's no such thing as19500:13:31.269 --> 00:13:35.870accidents, there's no such thing asjust fate or whatever. This is the19600:13:35.990 --> 00:13:39.870providence of God moving. That's that'spowerful. So if you could talk a19700:13:39.909 --> 00:13:43.299little bit about because I'm interesting andI told you I'm interested in sort of19800:13:43.340 --> 00:13:46.100the pro life movement history and youknow, if I've had flip on and19900:13:46.179 --> 00:13:50.259I want to have him on again, hopefully pretty soon, talking about the20000:13:50.299 --> 00:13:56.169rescue movement, him being the presidentof that or the director of Operation Rescue20100:13:56.210 --> 00:13:58.409for a while. But you guysare involved in that movement. was well,20200:13:58.450 --> 00:14:01.889you involved when it first got startedor you sort of jumped on board20300:14:01.929 --> 00:14:09.250with that after that. We weroundell terry had come to Baker's field,20400:14:09.289 --> 00:14:11.399right, and or our church.We were involved when it first started in20500:14:11.519 --> 00:14:16.840California, but I believe it wasin Atlanta and then New Jersey, probably20600:14:16.879 --> 00:14:22.200a year or so before it came. Yeah, for you. Yeah,20700:14:22.559 --> 00:14:26.789some folks might not even have aclue when I'm talking about rescue movement or20800:14:26.909 --> 00:14:30.269you know whatever. Describe a littlebit of what that means, what it20900:14:30.429 --> 00:14:33.590means when people say Operation Rescue,Rescue Movement and that sort of thing.21000:14:33.750 --> 00:14:39.940When we heard about them doing theholy week rescues, okay, remember back21100:14:41.419 --> 00:14:43.460what year would be. Thousand ninehundred and eighty nine, I think.21200:14:43.659 --> 00:14:46.580Okay, we because even a sidewalkcounseling, believe it or not. I21300:14:46.820 --> 00:14:52.299was kind of shy to do it. Yeah, and when we went down21400:14:52.340 --> 00:14:58.370to La in Bakersfield, it's moreconservative. We don't have the pro boorts21500:14:58.450 --> 00:15:01.129in our face or anything like yeah, but when we were when we were21600:15:01.250 --> 00:15:05.370down there, I was just goingto sidewalk counsel. I wasn't going to21700:15:05.409 --> 00:15:09.240risk arrest. And what they dois they would actually place themselves in front21800:15:09.240 --> 00:15:16.480of the doors and not allow anyoneto go in because they didn't want babies21900:15:16.559 --> 00:15:20.240to be killed. And we weretaught that we need to be peaceful,22000:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.590yeah, respectful and pray, andit was, it was. It was22100:15:24.629 --> 00:15:28.110an awesome time, but I wasjust counseling. Yeah, and so I22200:15:28.350 --> 00:15:33.070was able to try to talk togirls, but the pro bourts had those22300:15:33.230 --> 00:15:37.379big keep abortion legal sign okay,and they would surround the girl and there's22400:15:37.419 --> 00:15:41.860no way you could. So Ihad to raise my voice. Yeah,22500:15:41.940 --> 00:15:45.899and I came out of my comfortzone. UH, yell, please,22600:15:46.379 --> 00:15:50.129let us talk to you. Andthey had surrounded this girl in a car22700:15:50.929 --> 00:15:54.289and didn't want her to look atus or anything. But pretty soon she22800:15:54.450 --> 00:15:58.409ends up, the driver backs upand she ended up leaving. Yeah,22900:15:58.450 --> 00:16:02.889so that encourage me and made memore vocal when I came back to Bakersfield.23000:16:03.129 --> 00:16:08.480Yeah, so the rescue movement basicallyin conjunction with what sidewalk counselors are23100:16:08.480 --> 00:16:12.519already doing. The rescue movement whatit's heart was to put it self,23200:16:12.799 --> 00:16:18.870put themselves between the woman who's goinginto the abortion clinic and the abortionist and23300:16:18.950 --> 00:16:23.149basically they would, through civil disobedience, block the door. But there's some23400:16:23.350 --> 00:16:26.190you know, I know listen,of course, if you listen to the23500:16:26.389 --> 00:16:30.870media about this, you read someof the stories from back in those days,23600:16:30.909 --> 00:16:33.299it was a lot of hyped upand like these are a bunch of23700:16:33.299 --> 00:16:37.500violent people that were just doing theyit wasn't a civil disobedience in their eyes,23800:16:37.620 --> 00:16:40.500it was just violence and just angryand it's like, man, and23900:16:40.539 --> 00:16:44.019I look back at some of theold videos from the rescues and I listened24000:16:44.059 --> 00:16:47.450to people like you, you,like yourself, talk about the rescue movement,24100:16:47.490 --> 00:16:52.330it's like these are just God lovingpeople, loving individuals. Like it24200:16:52.409 --> 00:16:55.210or lump it, they were doingthe best they can with what they knew24300:16:55.370 --> 00:17:00.049to try to interpose, to tryto stand between that that mother and that24400:17:00.129 --> 00:17:03.960abortionist and then ultimately, working inconjunction with the sidewalk counsel, try to24500:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.960convince her to choose life. Andthere were I don't know how many,24600:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.400maybe you guys do. I wouldsay thousands, yes, babies that were24700:17:11.440 --> 00:17:17.470saved through that. So if youcould share. You've already shared one powerful24800:17:17.509 --> 00:17:21.349testimony. Share a testimony, whetherit's from, you know, the rescue24900:17:22.109 --> 00:17:25.589sort of thing going on with operationrescuer, whether it's too sidewalk counseling.25000:17:26.069 --> 00:17:30.259Maybe share a story that you guyshave experienced. Another one. Well,25100:17:30.740 --> 00:17:37.579Terry, where is? Terry wasout a woman had lost her baby at25200:17:37.619 --> 00:17:42.859about Betty, she lost her babyabout fourteen weeks. Is that what it25300:17:44.019 --> 00:17:51.130was? And so she the doctorhad allowed her to bring her baby home25400:17:51.250 --> 00:17:56.329for some reason in a jar,and she felt like I want my baby,25500:17:56.490 --> 00:18:00.920Baby Anthony, to be useful insome way. I feel like God25600:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.000has something he wants to do withmy baby, and so she ended up25700:18:03.000 --> 00:18:07.680allowing Terry to bring her baby inthe jar out in the sidewalk, and25800:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.079Terry was very careful with it becauseshe got I know people are going to25900:18:11.160 --> 00:18:14.069go what. Yeah, I knowit look creepy, a little weird,26000:18:14.190 --> 00:18:18.349but lord use us. And itwas in a cardboard box and I only26100:18:19.710 --> 00:18:23.829used it if I would ask agirl, you know, Oh, you're26200:18:23.910 --> 00:18:27.259twelve weeks. Well, you know, I have a little baby that's fourteen26300:18:27.460 --> 00:18:32.380weeks. Would you want to seethe baby? Yeah, and if she26400:18:32.579 --> 00:18:37.220did I would show it, showhim, Anthony, yeah, to here26500:18:37.299 --> 00:18:41.609and they were amazed and we showedfive, five people the baby, and26600:18:41.849 --> 00:18:48.369out of the five, four changetheir minds. Yeah, they're baby,26700:18:48.809 --> 00:18:52.730and three ended up asking Jesus intotheir heart. Okay. Yeah, so26800:18:52.890 --> 00:18:59.480it was used very effectively. Butit wasn't long before the abortion business caught26900:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.359wind of it and they actually calledthe corner. Okay, there, and27000:19:03.440 --> 00:19:06.920it became a big media thing that, you know, the news. The27100:19:07.119 --> 00:19:11.910News said that night that Terry wasparading up and down the sidewalk showing this27200:19:11.109 --> 00:19:14.990fetus in the jar to, yeah, everybody, as if she was just27300:19:15.190 --> 00:19:18.710waving it around. Yeah, andso, you know, they made a27400:19:18.829 --> 00:19:25.779big, big, you know girls, very fake news. Yeah, if27500:19:25.859 --> 00:19:29.140it was viable even, okay,yeah, crazy, yeah, okay,27600:19:29.339 --> 00:19:30.539wow, right. So, yeah, that's a little, right, little,27700:19:30.539 --> 00:19:34.380little hypocritical of them. Right,by God. Used that effectively and27800:19:34.420 --> 00:19:41.650it wasn't long after that that youmet Jackie out in the sidewalk, who27900:19:41.450 --> 00:19:48.450young woman who was there with heryoung granddaughter and she herself thought that she28000:19:48.490 --> 00:19:51.809might be pregnant and she was watchingher granddaughter, who was a bathe and28100:19:51.930 --> 00:19:55.640allowed children in the of course,clinning. So here I am. I28200:19:55.799 --> 00:20:00.759had never met her before and sheI don't know if I volunteered or what,28300:20:00.920 --> 00:20:03.519but I said, well, Ican, because back then they would28400:20:03.519 --> 00:20:07.589just do the pregnancy tests and theywould call them back in a couple of28500:20:07.670 --> 00:20:11.150hours to let him know what theresults were. Huh. And so I28600:20:11.349 --> 00:20:15.230watched her baby, grand baby outthere while she went she went in and28700:20:15.390 --> 00:20:19.269then we exchanged phone numbers. Butshe had told me if I'm pregnant,28800:20:19.829 --> 00:20:23.299I'm going to have to have anabortion. I just got in shape.28900:20:23.420 --> 00:20:27.900She was going to be correctional officer. Her youngest was like five, I29000:20:29.220 --> 00:20:33.259guess, and her whole new lifewas going to start, yeah, over,29100:20:33.500 --> 00:20:36.490you know, and the father ofher baby was married to somebody else29200:20:36.529 --> 00:20:40.450and was a deacon in a inthe church, and so, you know,29300:20:40.529 --> 00:20:44.890it just like we can't do this. Yeah, anyway, that became29400:20:44.930 --> 00:20:49.519a lifelong still relationship. We yeah, we just just yesterday, day before29500:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.599you were still talking to her aboutsomething. But we told her that we29600:20:52.720 --> 00:20:57.119would, I said, will adopther baby, Uh Huh, you know,29700:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.839and she was a black lady.Yeah, and we're great friends.29800:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.349And she said you really would,and I said Yeah, sure, you29900:21:04.430 --> 00:21:08.190know, and so we kept anoff and on she'd still think she might30000:21:08.309 --> 00:21:11.789need to abort. I got tobe at the birth of the baby.30100:21:12.029 --> 00:21:15.150Yeah, and then once she sawhim she said sorry, Terry, I'm30200:21:15.230 --> 00:21:18.619keeping them and yeah, that's fine. We never even got to have him30300:21:18.660 --> 00:21:22.259for a single night. Yeah,yeah, so you went through this sort30400:21:22.299 --> 00:21:25.259of up and down a lot ofyou know, I love her a lot30500:21:25.299 --> 00:21:26.819of side well, cancels. Knowexactly what you're talking about. Like you30600:21:27.180 --> 00:21:30.819connect with the MOMS. She chooseslive and the next day she says,30700:21:30.099 --> 00:21:33.849I just don't think I can dothis, and you know. So you're30800:21:33.890 --> 00:21:37.690in that prayer sort of tension andlike God, move on her heart.30900:21:37.730 --> 00:21:40.730You don't let her get back.Yeah, we've experienced that several times.31000:21:40.809 --> 00:21:44.690It school how the Lord can bringthose stories about. And even you have31100:21:44.769 --> 00:21:48.000a relationship now this, this lady'syour friend. That's twenty eight years ago.31200:21:48.160 --> 00:21:51.799That having twenty eight years ago.So wow, that's that's and he's31300:21:51.880 --> 00:21:55.680he's even saying at some of ourdinners and stuff. Oh, okay,31400:21:55.720 --> 00:21:57.920when he was younger. Yeah,yeah, that's that's so all. Thank31500:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.470you for thank you for giving tothe Lord. He's saying that song.31600:22:00.710 --> 00:22:03.990What was I supposed to be.So it was. Yeah, yeah,31700:22:04.029 --> 00:22:10.069that's powerful. God definitely blessed usby having that relationship over the yeah,31800:22:10.549 --> 00:22:14.230now you'd cheered earlier. I couldbe misquoting you on this, but you31900:22:14.309 --> 00:22:18.220know, you gas were involved,at least in some way involved, in32000:22:18.740 --> 00:22:22.660the life chain movement and sort ofthe beginning stages of that. Talk took32100:22:22.660 --> 00:22:26.299a little bit about that. Well, this was during the rescue days when,32200:22:26.660 --> 00:22:30.650you know, there was a bigflash of attention and a lot of32300:22:30.690 --> 00:22:33.609a lot of things happening for theHoly Week in California, and then after32400:22:33.690 --> 00:22:36.930that a lot of people got arrestedand it's like well, wow, there32500:22:37.009 --> 00:22:38.930was there was a big price topay there, because they really cracked down32600:22:40.009 --> 00:22:42.130on them there in La with numchucksand all this stuff. Yeah, and32700:22:44.440 --> 00:22:48.000so there were a lot of peoplesaying, is there something else we can32800:22:48.079 --> 00:22:51.359do? You know, we're notsure how long we can keep doing these32900:22:51.480 --> 00:22:56.480rescues, and during that time weheard of this life chain idea that had33000:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.349happened up in Uba city, Marysville. Man Named Royce Dunn had the idea33100:23:00.390 --> 00:23:03.789of just holding this sign that saysabortion kills children. Yeah, at the33200:23:03.869 --> 00:23:07.950time it was just that one signand no other message. You just felt33300:23:07.990 --> 00:23:11.509like that's the message God gave him. Abortion kills children. Yeah, and33400:23:11.710 --> 00:23:15.700so we ended up getting in touchwith the guy who was the head of33500:23:15.779 --> 00:23:22.900that in Bakersfield and he was hewas actually, he had actually been at33600:23:22.940 --> 00:23:27.410that same rescue that Terry talked aboutwhere the the pro aboards were surrounding the33700:23:27.450 --> 00:23:30.529car with their keep abortion legal sign. They're trying to keep her from being33800:23:30.569 --> 00:23:34.849able to talk to this girl.He was videotaping that. We Terry called33900:23:34.970 --> 00:23:41.640him and thinking maybe we should havea rescue in Baker's right, because he34000:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.920was ahead of Operation Rescue in Bakersfield, even though we hadn't had any rescues34100:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.000in Bakersfield. And so we calledhim to see what we could do with34200:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.680that and he said wait, whoare you? And and he realized at34300:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.829that very moment he had been editinga video. He had been he had34400:23:56.869 --> 00:24:02.829a video of that rescue, ofthat very moment when she called, he34500:24:03.109 --> 00:24:07.109was looking at a video of her, yeah, trying to save that baby's34600:24:07.150 --> 00:24:11.019life. So we got a picturefrom him later of her her interceding for34700:24:11.140 --> 00:24:15.220that baby, with this car alsorounded with these people waiting lets for them34800:24:15.339 --> 00:24:18.700yeah, and so we were.We were there with him throughout the time34900:24:18.740 --> 00:24:22.940he was planning this Bakersfield life chain, which was the first one after the35000:24:23.099 --> 00:24:27.890one Royce did in Uba City marriedMarysville, and as Bakersfield Life Chain,35100:24:27.970 --> 00:24:34.089we he mapped out this huge area, miles of sidewalks and and had a35200:24:34.170 --> 00:24:41.319church designated for each block and justa huge plan that he went to to35300:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.440do all this. His name wasbill newsome, the man I'm referring to,35400:24:45.400 --> 00:24:51.559and and ended up having eight thousandpeople on sidewalks on the streets of35500:24:51.599 --> 00:24:56.029Bakersfield during that time and he formedacross it was a it was a huge35600:24:56.269 --> 00:25:03.470miles long cross and and bill hadthe foresight to know this is something we35700:25:03.630 --> 00:25:07.099need to have people know more aboutwhat we did here. So he even35800:25:07.900 --> 00:25:11.980he hired videographers to take videos,okay, and he had a helicopter taken35900:25:12.019 --> 00:25:15.460an aerial view of the whole thing, and so that video that he took36000:25:15.500 --> 00:25:21.650in Bakersfield of that first Bakersfield lifechain ended up being spread all across the36100:25:21.730 --> 00:25:26.769country. The life chain is stillto this day promoting that Bakersfield video.36200:25:26.809 --> 00:25:30.529Yeah, as as the thing thatgot so many people across the country to36300:25:30.730 --> 00:25:36.720realize we need to be getting outto the streets and standing for this message.36400:25:36.880 --> 00:25:38.920And it was primarily through the churches. It is primarily with bill,36500:25:40.359 --> 00:25:42.240Bill knews. It was primarily somethingthat he said. We got to get36600:25:42.279 --> 00:25:45.119to the pastor's individually. Yeah,and it wasn't just you know, we36700:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.440need to go there until the pastorhey, you got to, you got36800:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.829to follow our agenda or you're worthless. It was we want to we want36900:25:52.829 --> 00:25:55.549to support you in this, pastor, we're here, we're we're here to37000:25:55.630 --> 00:25:59.789pray for you, we are hereunderstanding that you need help and what we're37100:25:59.789 --> 00:26:03.190doing. And you know, yougo there not saying hey, pastor,37200:26:03.390 --> 00:26:07.339we want you to solve this hugeproblem yourself, but here's something tangible that37300:26:07.460 --> 00:26:11.019you can do, here's something.We're laying out the program here for you37400:26:11.099 --> 00:26:15.539to follow and all we need toknow is that, as a pastor,37500:26:15.700 --> 00:26:19.890this is going to have your spiritualleadership in your congregation. Yeah, yeah,37600:26:19.930 --> 00:26:23.250yeah, it's cool how the Lordcan just grow things like that.37700:26:23.369 --> 00:26:26.529You know, we have locally.I shared with you, guys, and37800:26:26.609 --> 00:26:30.529you've probably seen someone social media,Love Life, Charlotte's ministry, that's done37900:26:30.609 --> 00:26:34.119something similar to that. Just bringingthe people out to the abortion clinics pray38000:26:34.519 --> 00:26:38.240and they've been a great partner withus. Even you know, some of38100:26:38.279 --> 00:26:41.960the folks have come out to theprayer walks have taken it a step further38200:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.000and probably you guys experience that samething that you know came in a hell38300:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.390to sign, but I want todo something else, and they come sidewalk38400:26:47.470 --> 00:26:51.309counsel and get involved in that way. So it's really cool to see the38500:26:51.430 --> 00:26:55.029Lord doing that. Talk a littlebit about because, you know, starting38600:26:55.069 --> 00:26:56.869out I said you know, andyou agree, abortions not a political issue,38700:26:57.630 --> 00:27:00.660but there are some political decisions thatare made and there were some there38800:27:00.740 --> 00:27:06.259are some things that we as believerscan do in order to influence the politics.38900:27:06.259 --> 00:27:08.500I mean that. But really howit should take places is the politics39000:27:08.579 --> 00:27:11.779follow the Church as the church leads, because we're supposed to be the conscience39100:27:12.140 --> 00:27:15.730of society. Unfortunately, we've notbeen that in a lot of ways,39200:27:15.849 --> 00:27:19.410but there are some ways that wehave been, and I know you're involved39300:27:19.410 --> 00:27:23.930with some of the political stuff andin particular the life amendment. Right,39400:27:25.210 --> 00:27:27.569talk about that, talk about thethe way the church can get him border39500:27:27.609 --> 00:27:30.079get on war with that and whythat's sort of a, you know,39600:27:30.880 --> 00:27:34.440an important thing for us to understand. Well, one of the most important39700:27:36.279 --> 00:27:41.000scriptures, I think, of therescue movement, that it was talked about39800:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.309frequently, was, I believe,this Matthew Sixteen, where Jesus says to39900:27:45.430 --> 00:27:52.069Peter the gates of hell will notprevail against my church, and to to40000:27:52.190 --> 00:27:59.660understand what that meant, that theChurch was confronting the gates of Hell.40100:27:59.819 --> 00:28:03.579Yeah, you know that we are, we are, we are going after40200:28:03.619 --> 00:28:07.539the gates hell. But as intheir last few years, as I've studied40300:28:07.539 --> 00:28:11.099that, I've come to a newunderstanding, as I realize the word church40400:28:11.700 --> 00:28:18.890is actually not really a good representationof what Jesus said in that scripture.40500:28:19.049 --> 00:28:23.049Okay, Peter it. The wordin Greek is ECCLESEA, and the word40600:28:23.089 --> 00:28:29.640Ecclesia, or assembly, is somethingthat has a rich background in both the40700:28:29.720 --> 00:28:33.359Old Testament and in the Greek culture. You know, of course, that40800:28:33.640 --> 00:28:38.519that was written in Greek. Yeah, and the Greek ECCLESSEA, that was40900:28:38.559 --> 00:28:45.630hundreds of years before Christ, wasthe assembly, the political assembly of men41000:28:45.990 --> 00:28:51.230of the community who came together todecide key issues in the community, in41100:28:51.269 --> 00:28:55.670the Kay, in the community.These are the city states of classical Greek41200:28:56.059 --> 00:29:00.619the community. The communities were thepolice, and that's where the word politics41300:29:00.940 --> 00:29:07.299comes out of that community, wherethe ECCLESSEA was there deciding these issues.41400:29:07.579 --> 00:29:11.369And so when we say the gatesof hell will not prevail against the ECCLESSEA,41500:29:12.009 --> 00:29:18.609you know understand the assembly that therewas a political connotation to that in41600:29:18.730 --> 00:29:22.130its original meaning. And so youknow, when Jesus calls us to occupy41700:29:22.410 --> 00:29:27.599until he comes, and you know, even though we are we are not41800:29:29.119 --> 00:29:33.359citizens of this world, that weare citizens of Heaven, we are to41900:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.000be faithful in the tasks that hehas given us here. Yeah, as42000:29:37.630 --> 00:29:44.269citizens of our nation, we haveall authority is given to us by God,42100:29:44.349 --> 00:29:47.509and so we have the authority thatGod has given to us as citizens42200:29:47.509 --> 00:29:51.430of our nation to be involved inthe political process, to be involved in42300:29:51.549 --> 00:29:59.859not just voting but in in politicalefforts to raise awareness about things, and42400:30:00.460 --> 00:30:03.859so I think it's part of ourcalling to be salt and light in the42500:30:03.980 --> 00:30:14.089society that we need to be reachingfor efforts to protect people of all of42600:30:14.130 --> 00:30:17.049all kinds. Yeah, and youknow, abortion is not political issue,42700:30:17.089 --> 00:30:19.369it's a people issue, okay,and just like a lot of things that42800:30:21.089 --> 00:30:25.160politicians deal with affect people and alot of things churches deal with affect people.42900:30:25.160 --> 00:30:29.440Yeah, and so abortion is oneof those things. It's affecting real43000:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.240people, that child in its mother'swomb. Ninety seven percent of biologists,43100:30:33.279 --> 00:30:37.829a recent study, study recently cameout saying that ninety seven percent of biologists43200:30:37.910 --> 00:30:44.910agree that human life begins at thepoint of fertilization, conception, when the43300:30:44.950 --> 00:30:48.150sperm and egg meet. Yeah,and so this is something that, you43400:30:48.269 --> 00:30:52.420know, those who advocate taking awaythe lives of these children in the womb43500:30:52.420 --> 00:30:56.140are really science deniers. Those whosay that's not a baby, that's not43600:30:56.180 --> 00:31:00.579a human being. These are theworst kind of science deniers, where they43700:31:00.859 --> 00:31:07.089really basic basic genetics to know thisbaby in the womb is a human being.43800:31:07.130 --> 00:31:10.690Yeah, and so the life amendmentis an effort to simply say,43900:31:11.250 --> 00:31:17.130and it's very it's a very shortthing, that simply say that a human44000:31:17.170 --> 00:31:22.480being is considered legally a person fromthe earliest point of its development. Yeah,44100:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.319and so it doesn't go into alot of detail about abortion or anything44200:31:26.359 --> 00:31:32.400like that, because if you usethat word person, it links in with44300:31:32.950 --> 00:31:37.269the Fifth Amendment, in the FourteenthAmendment especially the fourteen that talks about the44400:31:37.390 --> 00:31:44.150protections of you can't deny a personof life or liberty without due process.44500:31:44.309 --> 00:31:49.539Yeah, and so the due processthis isn't it's not in any way taking44600:31:49.579 --> 00:31:56.420away from the personhood of a woman. Women as well deserve due process,44700:31:56.019 --> 00:32:00.980but the baby deserves due process,yeah, or it's life is taken away.44800:32:00.380 --> 00:32:07.009And so the life amendment is aneffort constitutionally in our federal constitution to44900:32:07.410 --> 00:32:12.410have what you've probably the personhood movement. Yes, the country quite a bit.45000:32:12.450 --> 00:32:16.680It's a it's a federal personhood effort. But the difference is that a45100:32:17.039 --> 00:32:23.119federal constitutional amendment is something the SupremeCourt can't strike it down, they can't45200:32:23.119 --> 00:32:28.000tinker with it. It's a constitutionalamendment. It actually sets the rules that45300:32:28.119 --> 00:32:31.750the Supreme Court itself has to liveyeah. So they have to, they45400:32:31.829 --> 00:32:36.349have to adhere to that as partof the constitution because they're there, yeah,45500:32:36.390 --> 00:32:38.589required uphold. So what is thelanguage exactly and what you guys have45600:32:38.750 --> 00:32:44.460proposed in the in the life amendment? Well, I don't have the exact45700:32:44.460 --> 00:32:51.539language, members, but basically it'sthat from the beginning of the development of45800:32:51.619 --> 00:32:54.339a human being it would be considereda person. Okay, it's a very,45900:32:54.380 --> 00:33:00.130very so basically it's just an invitationfor everyone to catch it with reality46000:33:00.289 --> 00:33:02.650that this is a person and forthe government to catch it with that reality46100:33:02.690 --> 00:33:07.769and say, basically, all ofthe constitutional protections that are in the bill46200:33:07.769 --> 00:33:13.640of rights and the constitution apply evento a person in the womb. Right.46300:33:14.240 --> 00:33:16.400Okay, let's go. Website LifeAmendment Dot Org is going to ask46400:33:16.440 --> 00:33:21.240if there was a particular website.Someone be good specific wording on their life46500:33:21.240 --> 00:33:25.920amendment dot Org. But the realperson whose passion brought this about, this46600:33:27.079 --> 00:33:31.309life amendment website, is a manthat many people probably are familiar with,46700:33:31.630 --> 00:33:37.750Dr Don Smith. He was thethe the produce sure, of the silent46800:33:37.789 --> 00:33:42.019screen video Manka many years ago.Remember that video and while since I watched46900:33:42.059 --> 00:33:45.180it, but it's powerful. Hepassed away in January at about ninety five47000:33:45.220 --> 00:33:49.339years old. I think he waslittle, little, little short of his47100:33:49.420 --> 00:33:52.539ninety five birthday. But God,God used him for many years, but47200:33:52.660 --> 00:33:55.369in the last few years we hadthe opportunity of working with him on this47300:33:55.529 --> 00:34:00.210life amendment effort and the things,the way this whole life men was constructed47400:34:00.289 --> 00:34:05.450in the things, most of thethings on our website and our pamphlets we47500:34:05.529 --> 00:34:08.170hand out, those were all writtenby by him and his final years.47600:34:08.570 --> 00:34:13.880Yeah, so it's talked about apro life pioneer. It's just been amazing47700:34:14.079 --> 00:34:19.159to have the opportunity the last fewyears as he was in his in his47800:34:19.280 --> 00:34:24.150rest home, we talked to himfrequently there. This was his passion until47900:34:24.389 --> 00:34:29.510his final days. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I know for sure48000:34:30.190 --> 00:34:32.389for me personally. You know I'maround Flip Benham. You guys know him48100:34:32.429 --> 00:34:37.190on a regular basis and been exposedto other people that have been in per48200:34:37.349 --> 00:34:39.539life ministry for a long time andI've been able to just clean a lot48300:34:39.579 --> 00:34:45.780of wisdom and and just talking toyou guys and just this little bit of48400:34:45.860 --> 00:34:47.699time that we've known each other,been able to draw out some wisdom for48500:34:47.780 --> 00:34:52.019sure. And just the last coupleof minutes, because I wrap this thing48600:34:52.099 --> 00:34:54.409up, if that's all right withyou, guys, share if you could,48700:34:55.489 --> 00:34:59.570some wisdom, maybe some some thingsthat that you know for those who48800:34:59.570 --> 00:35:04.210are kind of brand new in dealingwith the issue of abortion. Maybe those48900:35:04.409 --> 00:35:07.920a lot of folks that they listento our podcast are involved in sidewalk counseling49000:35:07.239 --> 00:35:10.599and maybe just newly involved in itand maybe some other people, you know,49100:35:12.199 --> 00:35:15.079whatever reason to listen this podcast.What are some maybe I don't know,49200:35:15.239 --> 00:35:20.960maybe some of the warnings or justsome nuggets of wisdom that you would49300:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.710speak to somebody just brand new gettinginto this, this battle for the unborn?49400:35:24.429 --> 00:35:29.710Well, in terms of dealing withpeople directly who are going in for49500:35:29.789 --> 00:35:32.550abortion, that's been the major focusof our ministry over the years, though49600:35:32.550 --> 00:35:36.300we've done a lot of different things, including life amendment things like that,49700:35:36.579 --> 00:35:42.340but the you know, one ofthe best pieces of wisdom I got was49800:35:43.099 --> 00:35:50.849about probably fifteen years ago when whenFranklin Graham was coming to Bakersfield for one49900:35:50.889 --> 00:35:55.690of his festivals, and we've hadan opportunity to see Franklin Graham many times50000:35:58.050 --> 00:36:01.809over the years and really appreciate hisboldness and speaking out abortion. In this50100:36:01.969 --> 00:36:06.480particular situation, he didn't talk aboutabortion at all. I don't recall him50200:36:06.480 --> 00:36:10.159speaking of abortion specifically at that time, but we were going to be a50300:36:10.639 --> 00:36:15.119part of the effort in terms ofjust counseling people at the end and there's50400:36:15.119 --> 00:36:20.590a training class they have you gothrough and part of that that's I'm assuming,50500:36:20.670 --> 00:36:23.510has been part of the Billy Grahamtraining probably for years before Franklin himself50600:36:23.630 --> 00:36:30.949was the evangelist there. But partof that was just really key to me50700:36:30.110 --> 00:36:35.579when it talked about when you're taught, when you're trying to reach somebody,50800:36:35.699 --> 00:36:42.739you need to address their significance andtheir security. Okay, those two key50900:36:42.900 --> 00:36:45.980things I think are so important aswe're dealing with people on this issue.51000:36:46.099 --> 00:36:50.929Significance, both to the mother andto the baby. Yeah, to understand51100:36:51.489 --> 00:36:54.409mom, you are significant in theeyes of God. You matter to God51200:36:54.730 --> 00:37:00.010and your baby matters too. Yeah. And the security is to say to51300:37:00.130 --> 00:37:02.920the mother, we're here to helpyou. Yeah, God isn't. You're51400:37:02.920 --> 00:37:06.360not alone here. You know,there are people that are going to help51500:37:06.400 --> 00:37:12.480you through this. Yeah. Andso we need to consider the significance and51600:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.710security of women as we're dealing withthem. And that same training went on51700:37:15.829 --> 00:37:21.750to talk about things that are roadblocksto relationships and talk talked about there as51800:37:21.750 --> 00:37:23.110I think, five days it goesthrough. I know if I can remember51900:37:23.269 --> 00:37:29.269remember them all, but demeaning,demanding, dogmatic, all these things that,52000:37:29.469 --> 00:37:31.940you know, if you're kind ofsaying you got to do it my52100:37:32.179 --> 00:37:37.300way to this woman and kind oftrying to push her into your mold instead52200:37:37.340 --> 00:37:42.699of saying, you know, there'sa God here who is wanting to help52300:37:42.739 --> 00:37:49.690you through this. If we're tryingto push them with our human ability instead52400:37:49.690 --> 00:37:54.929of letting God use us in thissituation, then things don't turn out so52500:37:55.050 --> 00:37:58.489well and they put up roadblocks.And yes, do. But I guess52600:37:58.599 --> 00:38:05.079really found that training from from theGrand Organization to be just nugget of wisdom52700:38:05.199 --> 00:38:07.440that every pro lifers should consider.Yeah, yeah, it's good stuff.52800:38:07.519 --> 00:38:10.239It's sort of along the lines,you know, because we do trainings as52900:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.670a ministry for sidewall counseling and wehave three points that we encourage sidewall counselors53000:38:15.710 --> 00:38:19.510to touch on. We say,talk about what God says. What God53100:38:19.550 --> 00:38:22.269says about abortion, of course,but what God says about the mother and53200:38:22.389 --> 00:38:23.829the baby, that he loves them, that he cares about them. So53300:38:23.949 --> 00:38:29.179that's sort of speaks to that wholeseeing their values should the significance that they53400:38:29.219 --> 00:38:30.820have. And then we say,you know, talk about the humanity to53500:38:30.860 --> 00:38:34.860the baby. Baby's hearts already beating. Your baby has ten fingers, ten53600:38:34.940 --> 00:38:37.019toes, at all that. Sogive humanity to the baby. And the53700:38:37.099 --> 00:38:42.130third point that we tell people isresources. Talk about the things are available53800:38:42.210 --> 00:38:45.050in the mobilt, your sound unit, this right theory, pregnancy centers,53900:38:45.769 --> 00:38:49.090prenatal care, all these other things. It's sort of sort of Rud along54000:38:49.090 --> 00:38:52.530the lines of what you're saying.It's not rocket science. It's pretty pretty54100:38:52.530 --> 00:38:54.719simple things. If we look atit from in our perspective, being in54200:38:54.800 --> 00:38:58.599difficult situations, what are the thingsthat speaks to us? What are the54300:38:58.679 --> 00:39:01.679things that helps calm the storm?And it's exactly like, like you said.54400:39:04.639 --> 00:39:07.960Well, makes me think of toflip been, I'm phrase, but54500:39:07.119 --> 00:39:12.309it just makes me think of lettingour theology become biography. Yeah, yeah,54600:39:12.349 --> 00:39:15.030it's all, yeah, exactly.Well with that, I'm going to54700:39:15.110 --> 00:39:19.909wrap this thing up. I doappreciate you guys coming and in sharing your54800:39:19.949 --> 00:39:22.190heart, sharing your experiences. Iknow that it'll have an effect. Certainly54900:39:22.230 --> 00:39:24.940had an effect on me and Iknow how effect on others. I want55000:39:24.940 --> 00:39:30.940to encourage those who are listening withcheck out these guys website. As far55100:39:30.019 --> 00:39:34.980as the life amendment, you saidLife Amendment Dot Org or is that right?55200:39:35.380 --> 00:39:37.730And you guys have a website locallyfor your ministry and what you guys55300:39:37.730 --> 00:39:42.570are involved in. What's that website, glorified Jesuscom. I like that.55400:39:42.849 --> 00:39:45.210That's really good. Glorified Jesuscom.That's what this is about. So you55500:39:45.289 --> 00:39:49.730can check those guys out. I'llput that in the description in the podcast55600:39:49.769 --> 00:39:52.559itself so people can get to thosewebsites. Also, we have a website55700:39:52.599 --> 00:39:58.400as a ministry that we always mentioned, and that's www dot sidewalks for lifecom,55800:39:58.440 --> 00:40:01.920sidewalks and number for Lifecom, whichis a Gospel Center, sidewalk counseling55900:40:01.960 --> 00:40:06.719website with training videos and and weput out blog posts on a regular basis56000:40:06.760 --> 00:40:09.230talking about how to be effective incertain areas and and that sort of thing.56100:40:09.309 --> 00:40:14.110You can connect with me also atd parks, D parks, at56200:40:14.150 --> 00:40:17.309cities for Lifecom and our website,Charlotte dot cities for Life Dot Org.56300:40:19.230 --> 00:40:22.019And appreciate you, guys. Comeappreciate all those who listen and until next56400:40:22.019 --> 00:40:37.289time, God bless, use,mill use, give me, give me.56500:40:45.010 --> 00:40:52.199It will cost me my life,but these two precious inside