From ProChoice Atheist to Pro-Life Christian - Vicky's Testimony

WEBVTT100:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.799I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me.200:00:06.160 --> 00:00:10.070Lord, I am welcome to GospelCenter pro life, the podcast where300:00:10.070 --> 00:00:13.310we talk about pro life issues inlight of the Gospel. This episode we're400:00:13.310 --> 00:00:16.469going to talk with Vicki Cassi Org, who's the volunteer coordinator for cities for500:00:16.589 --> 00:00:19.750life. She can to share hertestimony and how she got involved in the600:00:19.750 --> 00:00:33.380pro life movement. I felt showpassish, touch your heart. Welcome to700:00:33.380 --> 00:00:38.649the Gospel Center pro life podcast andvideo. We appreciate all those who are800:00:38.689 --> 00:00:44.090watching and we'd shared in the previousvideo about what it means to be Gospel900:00:44.090 --> 00:00:47.289centered in pro life and kind ofthe ends and outs that mean. Vicky1000:00:47.369 --> 00:00:51.240talked a little bit about that andright now we're going to talk about kind1100:00:51.240 --> 00:00:56.159of our testimony and I really wantedto ask Vicki about her testimony and how1200:00:56.320 --> 00:01:00.359she got involved in pro life ministry, because want you guys to understand where1300:01:00.399 --> 00:01:03.510we come from. You know,we're people just like you. Have the1400:01:03.950 --> 00:01:08.109struggles that you have and and,by God's grace, hold the convictions that1500:01:08.189 --> 00:01:12.310many of you do, but weall arrive at those convictions at different places1600:01:12.469 --> 00:01:15.269and from different places, and fordifferent reasons, and so we wanted to1700:01:15.269 --> 00:01:19.180share a little bit of our experienceto help encourage you guys, and and1800:01:19.939 --> 00:01:23.819so right off bad I'm just goingto ask Vicki some questions about her her1900:01:23.900 --> 00:01:27.659role within the pro life movement andthen sort of how she got there.2000:01:27.739 --> 00:01:32.579So so how did well, firstand foremost, what is your role within2100:01:32.620 --> 00:01:36.370the pro life movement? What's yourheart to to do? Kind of what2200:01:36.650 --> 00:01:40.370has God called you to within theprolife movement? Okay, well, first2300:01:40.409 --> 00:01:44.170and foremost, to be a sidewalkcounselor to be out on their counseling mom2400:01:44.370 --> 00:01:49.400speaking up for the unborn. Ifeel that I am God has clearly called2500:01:49.439 --> 00:01:55.599me to do that. Secondly,more a specific role within cities for life2600:01:55.879 --> 00:02:00.680is I'm the volunteer coordinator. SoI helped to train the volunteers that are2700:02:00.760 --> 00:02:05.230coming on board through we have afairly extensive training process and we want to2800:02:05.269 --> 00:02:08.710make sure that they feel enabled.Some of our folks have been doing this,2900:02:08.870 --> 00:02:13.909like you, for a decade andso there's a lot of experience and3000:02:14.030 --> 00:02:17.699you definitely can learn from the experienceof others. So so I hope to3100:02:17.740 --> 00:02:22.699train the volunteers, equip them,make sure that they have the materials that3200:02:22.819 --> 00:02:24.379they need to be able to beeffective. Make sure our side box are3300:02:24.419 --> 00:02:30.530filled for as well as possible forthe hours that that the abortion centers in3400:02:30.569 --> 00:02:35.770Charlotte are open. Yeah, andso just for folks who don't know,3500:02:35.969 --> 00:02:39.449who aren't familiar with what you knowkind of what goes on here in Charlotte,3600:02:39.449 --> 00:02:44.009and we speak from that perspective assidewall counselors here in Charlotte, because3700:02:44.050 --> 00:02:47.199that's where we're at and and that'swhat we involved in every day, is3800:02:47.240 --> 00:02:53.479sidewall counseling here in Charlotte. Thereare three actually soon to be, unless3900:02:53.919 --> 00:02:59.750unless something miraculous happens, for abortioncenters, and Charlotte is an abortion destination4000:02:59.949 --> 00:03:04.150for a lot of the states herein the southeast and they do it the4100:03:04.509 --> 00:03:07.469the main abortion clinic here in Charlottesomewhere, sometimes as many as fifty or4200:03:07.469 --> 00:03:13.219sixty abortions a day, but onaverage twenty five to thirty abortions every day,4300:03:13.259 --> 00:03:15.580six days a week. And soit's our heart to have a Christian4400:03:15.620 --> 00:03:19.580presence there on those sidewalks every daythe the doors are open, especially at4500:03:19.580 --> 00:03:23.219that main abortion center. And soGod, by His grace is raised up4600:03:23.219 --> 00:03:27.060an army of volunteers, but ittakes someone to manage that. It takes4700:03:27.409 --> 00:03:29.889training. You don't just can't justthrow people out there. I mean you4800:03:29.930 --> 00:03:32.009can, but they won't be aseffective as they possibly can be unless you4900:03:32.490 --> 00:03:35.849put some of what you've learned intothem. And I'll say, and I'll5000:03:35.849 --> 00:03:38.009say it again, I've said itbefore, Vicky's probably one of the most5100:03:38.009 --> 00:03:43.520skilled sidewalk counselors that I've ever metand it's very effective. And one of5200:03:43.520 --> 00:03:49.159the things that we've discovered in trainingup volunteers and equipping volunteers is look at5300:03:49.280 --> 00:03:51.520look at how we do it.By God's grace, we've learned a lot5400:03:51.560 --> 00:03:55.310of stuff and kind of shadow whatwe're doing here and of course we're always5500:03:55.310 --> 00:03:59.430open to learn stuff ourselves, butwe feel like the Lord is given us5600:03:59.430 --> 00:04:01.830a real good model for training andfor implementing that training on the sidewalk.5700:04:01.870 --> 00:04:05.550And so people come and shadow Vickyand and we had this point. How5800:04:05.590 --> 00:04:09.669many volunteers do we have within citiesfor life? And we've got, you5900:04:09.750 --> 00:04:13.500know it, a hundred, probably, if not more. Actively on the6000:04:13.659 --> 00:04:19.300sidewalk at least, probably fifty.But but I wanted to add something to6100:04:19.339 --> 00:04:25.889you, to what we've already talkedabout a little bit, in that the6200:04:26.689 --> 00:04:30.889God has called me to speak truthand and to speak it in love and6300:04:30.250 --> 00:04:35.649so and I think that's that's partof being a gospel focused ministry, Pro6400:04:35.850 --> 00:04:43.040Life Ministry, is we are calledupon to peak speak truth. But as6500:04:43.120 --> 00:04:48.480you kind of look through what howJesus interacted with with those who were in6600:04:48.720 --> 00:04:55.670sin, it's it's with truth andnot with name calling or really very little6700:04:55.670 --> 00:05:00.350anger. sear it's anger against thehypocrisy of the Pharisees. But but he6800:05:00.990 --> 00:05:06.540has, he unabashedly shared the truthof God's word, but he always spoke6900:05:06.660 --> 00:05:14.300with gentleness and love and and that'sreally a big part of why what I'm7000:05:14.420 --> 00:05:18.300called to do, I'm very attractedto that that as a pro life model.7100:05:18.339 --> 00:05:23.329Yeah, I want people to comeand interact with us and I I7200:05:23.529 --> 00:05:28.449pray that their hearts are changed.I think it was you who said that7300:05:28.689 --> 00:05:33.170if you can talk someone out ofabortion, they can be talked back into7400:05:33.209 --> 00:05:36.639abortion. So what we're doing,and my heart is that I'm not trying7500:05:36.680 --> 00:05:40.920to talk anyone out of abortion.I'm trying to share the truth of WHO7600:05:40.920 --> 00:05:43.879Christ is and that their heart willbe, yeah, formed through that.7700:05:44.000 --> 00:05:46.519Yeah, I remember one time youtold me just a couple of it was7800:05:46.600 --> 00:05:51.110probably maybe six months or a yearago, where you really had just come7900:05:51.230 --> 00:05:56.750to the place where you your heartwas not even or not even not just8000:05:57.149 --> 00:05:59.910to go out and say babies,but it was like I feel called to8100:06:00.029 --> 00:06:02.629come out here and share the Gospel. Yeah, like just to proclaim the8200:06:02.670 --> 00:06:06.699gospel of these MOMS. It's anoverwhelming and it was not something I ever8300:06:06.980 --> 00:06:14.579recognized or realized was a gift ora calling prior to becoming a pro life8400:06:14.699 --> 00:06:21.170counselor when I realized abortion will neverchange unless people's hearts are changed. And8500:06:23.250 --> 00:06:30.209these people coming to an abortion centerall need Jesus. Yeah, and and8600:06:30.410 --> 00:06:34.639that is the answer to not onlyabortion but really to every question. Yeah,8700:06:34.839 --> 00:06:40.439yeah, absolutely. The problem issin, as we talked about last8800:06:40.519 --> 00:06:45.279time, in the remedy is thegospel of Jesus Christ. So just want8900:06:45.279 --> 00:06:47.589to ask you you based on yourlife experiences. You know, we have9000:06:47.750 --> 00:06:51.069experiences in our past and we cometo certain conclusions and we end up in9100:06:51.149 --> 00:06:56.350certain places in our lives, andGod uses our past to really shape our9200:06:56.470 --> 00:06:59.829future and to call us in certainministries and to give us a burden for9300:06:59.990 --> 00:07:03.220certain ministries and that sort of thing. So have you always been prolife?9400:07:03.339 --> 00:07:06.699Is that always been your stance asfar as the issue of abortion? Yeah,9500:07:06.779 --> 00:07:12.980no, not at all. Iwas raised by parents, great parents,9600:07:13.139 --> 00:07:19.050but they they were not spiritual andthey didn't believe in God and and9700:07:20.810 --> 00:07:26.649they were. My Dad was veryconservative, my mom much more liberal.9800:07:27.370 --> 00:07:32.240But I was raised during the timethat Rov Wade was legalized and and society9900:07:33.000 --> 00:07:39.399said this was okay, that abortionwas okay. The books that I read10000:07:39.519 --> 00:07:42.800in school, I remember one,I think I talked with you about that,10100:07:42.920 --> 00:07:46.110I thought cider house rules by JohnIrving, which is as actually a10200:07:46.189 --> 00:07:53.029very sympathetic look at an abortionist andat the the terrible so legal abortions.10300:07:53.110 --> 00:07:57.470That legal exactly. And so itwas. It was really kind of trying10400:07:57.509 --> 00:08:01.620to make the case for why abortionshould be legal, because these women that10500:08:01.819 --> 00:08:07.540the illegal abortionists saw, we're womenand terrible circumstances and he truly believed he10600:08:07.740 --> 00:08:11.100was serving mankind, he was doinga good thing. I did too.10700:08:11.300 --> 00:08:13.410I read that book. John Irvinis a great writer, one of my10800:08:13.529 --> 00:08:18.610favorites, and and I really thought, okay, I'm I I agree with10900:08:18.810 --> 00:08:22.810this book. So so I was, you know, a product of the11000:08:22.930 --> 00:08:28.319times, a product of the allthe press at the time and still the11100:08:28.800 --> 00:08:35.960the growing liberal press, that thata woman should have control over her body.11200:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.639The science back then was nothing likeI mean the science never changed,11300:08:39.720 --> 00:08:46.789but the tools to look into thewomb look at that babies development were much11400:08:46.789 --> 00:08:50.629less advanced back in that time.So when they said it was the baby11500:08:50.750 --> 00:08:52.750was a clump of cells, therewasn't really a whole lot of stuff out11600:08:52.750 --> 00:08:58.100there to disprove that and I didn'tbother, yeah, to discover anything else11700:08:58.580 --> 00:09:05.539here. In that time when Rovywaylong the time that Rov Wade was was11800:09:05.379 --> 00:09:09.169handed down as a court decision,and even before that time, do you11900:09:09.330 --> 00:09:16.970remember the debate, the the prolife pro choice debate? You remember that,12000:09:16.169 --> 00:09:18.850like in the you know, asfar as in the media? was12100:09:18.929 --> 00:09:22.570there a lot of talk of that? You Remember? You know? Honestly,12200:09:22.769 --> 00:09:26.600I do not. I'm but havea terrible memory there. But I'm12300:09:26.600 --> 00:09:31.080sure there was. But I wasn'tat all political. I didn't I read12400:09:31.159 --> 00:09:35.360the comics. I don't think Iread a lot of the newspaper, but12500:09:35.440 --> 00:09:41.669I was an avid novel reader andthat's why, which is actually fast forward12600:09:41.710 --> 00:09:46.710to what I do now. Ithink that set the tone for I became12700:09:46.710 --> 00:09:50.350a writer and all there. AndI think part of that is because the12800:09:50.549 --> 00:09:56.700novels that I was reading at thattime were more pro choice. Yeah,12900:09:56.779 --> 00:10:03.179and socalled pro choice. That Johnirvy novel really was and and that really13000:10:03.460 --> 00:10:09.809influenced me. If someone pointed oneput something in particular that swayed me to13100:10:09.889 --> 00:10:13.850believe abortion was okay, it wasthat novel. So I thought that's something13200:10:13.889 --> 00:10:18.289that Christians, I think pro life, should pay attention to. We should13300:10:18.289 --> 00:10:24.559not seed the culture to the liberal, demonic evil agenda. Yeah, we13400:10:24.840 --> 00:10:28.840need to be seizing the arts back, and I'm an artist also, so13500:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.279that's that was very near and dearto my heart. And when I started13600:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.350writing I was determined that my bookswould always have God at the core and13700:10:39.509 --> 00:10:41.990a pro life message. And Yeah, or yeah, so when you were13800:10:43.070 --> 00:10:48.070younger with Tom how were you andpro life are when? Well, in13900:10:48.269 --> 00:10:54.500seventy three movie way have been seventeen. Okay, seventeen, so you're been14000:10:54.539 --> 00:11:00.500coming adult. I was right atthe age where where that was intended to14100:11:00.700 --> 00:11:05.049reach. Yeah, so do youdo you recall was interested in this?14200:11:05.690 --> 00:11:13.330You recall in school having conversations peopletalking about abortion, talking about the issue14300:11:13.330 --> 00:11:16.490of abortion. You call any conversationslike they mean you were in you're in14400:11:16.649 --> 00:11:20.480New York and everybody were Catholics,pretty much right. I mean, yeah,14500:11:20.480 --> 00:11:24.600a lot of Catholics, a lotof lack of religion and honestly,14600:11:24.639 --> 00:11:28.600I think there was a lot ofcultural religion maybe, but nothing like the14700:11:28.720 --> 00:11:35.509south. So, honestly, Idon't remember. I don't remember discussions that.14800:11:35.590 --> 00:11:39.950That doesn't mean that they didn't happen, but I remember just being very14900:11:41.029 --> 00:11:46.350consumed with being a teenager. Yeah, and the struggles of being a teenager.15000:11:46.620 --> 00:11:48.940And, like I said, thatone book, though, which I15100:11:50.220 --> 00:11:54.740can't remember if it was an assignedre eating in one of my classes,15200:11:54.779 --> 00:12:01.059it might have been, and thatone book was my discussion that I recall.15300:12:01.379 --> 00:12:05.850Okay, abortion, yeah, andso in your school, even you15400:12:05.889 --> 00:12:11.009know, if there were women thathad abortions in your high school, probably15500:12:11.009 --> 00:12:13.529wouldn't have been talked about when thebeen a I don't remember. No,15600:12:15.090 --> 00:12:22.159I don't remember a single discussion orany woman in my experience at all that15700:12:22.279 --> 00:12:26.039I knew of. Yeah, hadit that had had an abortion. Yeah,15800:12:26.240 --> 00:12:31.029okay. And so up and coming, you know, coming into adulthood15900:12:31.070 --> 00:12:35.190and and you know, having readthe Cider House Rules Book and that being16000:12:35.230 --> 00:12:39.750an influence to you, and yourparents really never talked a whole lot about16100:12:39.789 --> 00:12:45.379about abortions. So it wasn't likea huge topic or anything like that.16200:12:46.179 --> 00:12:50.100So it was always maybe like adefault position, like, you know,16300:12:50.340 --> 00:12:52.220pro choice. You know exactly,and know exactly. I was liberal,16400:12:52.539 --> 00:12:56.100not like abortion is. That isa great thing, but it's you know,16500:12:56.179 --> 00:12:58.500if you need a big deal,yeah, it wasn't a big deal.16600:12:58.570 --> 00:13:01.929It was a clump of cells.I do remember that, thinking it16700:13:01.210 --> 00:13:05.409was not a big deal. Yeah, and and so you know, and16800:13:05.450 --> 00:13:07.730you'll probably be asking questions later on, but I'll just get into that.16900:13:07.809 --> 00:13:13.360So when I was, you know, a very young adult with a pregnant17000:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.960sun planned pregnancy, didn't want didwhat I was not. I had big17100:13:16.159 --> 00:13:20.480plans. One of the plans wasI wanted to ride my bike across the17200:13:20.600 --> 00:13:22.240country. But yeah, and Iknew I could not do that with a17300:13:22.360 --> 00:13:28.629baby. And so I and Iwas deathly ill. I had terrible morning17400:13:28.789 --> 00:13:33.190sickness and I didn't want that babyand and I honestly, to tell you17500:13:33.230 --> 00:13:35.789the truth, I don't think Ithought twice. I didn't know the Lord17600:13:35.789 --> 00:13:41.259as not a believer. It hadnever I don't recall anyone ever saying there17700:13:41.340 --> 00:13:46.179was anything wrong with abortion. Yeah, they may have, and maybe I've17800:13:46.179 --> 00:13:50.740blocked it, but I don't rememberit. And it you know, I17900:13:50.779 --> 00:13:52.100didn't want the baby. It's clumpof cells. Anyway, it's making me18000:13:52.299 --> 00:13:58.129really, really sick. So Ihad an abortion really without a moment thought18100:13:58.409 --> 00:14:05.529yeah. And then following that,however, there was I didn't know the18200:14:05.649 --> 00:14:11.519Lord for another decade, but duringthat that decade, I would have nightmares18300:14:11.759 --> 00:14:15.200of ripping a puppy apart with mybare hands. And I was an animal18400:14:15.320 --> 00:14:18.320lover. Funny, I was ananimal lover that would never even step on18500:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.360an aunt. Yeah, yet Ididn't equate what I did to my own18600:14:22.399 --> 00:14:28.669child as as wrong. So,and I think that that shows two things,18700:14:28.750 --> 00:14:33.230the deception of the abortion movement andhow it deceives women through the lies.18800:14:33.350 --> 00:14:35.789It's why it's not a clump ofcells, it's a living human being.18900:14:37.830 --> 00:14:41.019But the deception of a heart thathasn't yielded. Yeah, Lord.19000:14:41.059 --> 00:14:46.740So, Kenny, you kind ofcame from at least a nonreligious background.19100:14:46.740 --> 00:14:52.860Your parents weren't religious and coming throughhigh school, you kind of came to19200:14:52.929 --> 00:14:56.529your own conclusions about the issue ofabortion, right, at least you know19300:14:56.649 --> 00:14:58.529from reading that that book. Andthen you've come you came to a place19400:14:58.570 --> 00:15:03.730where you actually had an unplanned pregnancy, unplanned according to you, but of19500:15:03.850 --> 00:15:07.480course we know the Lord's plans arenot always our plans. Yeah, and19600:15:07.559 --> 00:15:11.720yet in the midst of that,you chose to have an abortion. So19700:15:11.720 --> 00:15:18.840you're at this point kind of yieldingto the culture, what we would call19800:15:18.919 --> 00:15:22.710the culture of death, right tomaintain your life the way that you thought19900:15:22.710 --> 00:15:28.909it should be. That's absolutely whathappened. Yeah, what were the so20000:15:28.110 --> 00:15:33.470that the decade or so after that, you said you weren't a believer yet20100:15:33.190 --> 00:15:37.019and you were kind of continuing onthe trajectory and maybe you had planned for20200:15:37.100 --> 00:15:41.500yourself, and but still with someregrets, or at least you know,20300:15:41.620 --> 00:15:48.299maybe subconscious, sub reconsious regret.I cannot say that in that decade I20400:15:48.460 --> 00:15:52.330regretted the abortion. My immediate responsewas just what the literature says, and20500:15:52.450 --> 00:15:56.889which is one of the things thatwe need to know and guard against,20600:15:56.210 --> 00:16:00.610because the pro choice socalled pro choicemovement, will always throw this at us,20700:16:00.769 --> 00:16:06.200that women don't regret the abortion andthat statistics show, in fact,20800:16:06.399 --> 00:16:11.120that they experience relief. Well,that's true. Based on my experience,20900:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.960my first response was relief. Iwasn't throwing up anymore, first of all.21000:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.950Yeah, and and now I couldgo and bike across the country and21100:16:18.110 --> 00:16:22.269I didn't have to worry about,you know, diapers, carrying diapers on21200:16:22.350 --> 00:16:26.870my bike. So that is true, but that's the immediate response. At21300:16:26.950 --> 00:16:32.110most of the pro life study,pro socalled pro choice studies that follow women21400:16:32.190 --> 00:16:36.220following an abortion are not long termstudies. There within the first five years21500:16:36.700 --> 00:16:41.460I didn't recognize the severity of whatI had didn't done. In those first21600:16:41.460 --> 00:16:45.539five years I I was experiencing allkinds of terrible symptoms, bouts of crying,21700:16:45.620 --> 00:16:55.049depression, desire to kill myself,physical problems and certainly emotional and definitely21800:16:55.049 --> 00:16:59.769spiritual, but I had no ideait was connected to the abortion. Not21900:16:59.970 --> 00:17:06.039till ten years later when I hada planned pregnancy my firstborn son, and22000:17:06.839 --> 00:17:14.839and when, when he arrived andwas born, my world changed. Yeah,22100:17:14.880 --> 00:17:22.069I looked at that perfectly formed,incredible miracle of life and and was22200:17:22.549 --> 00:17:27.470like, what did I do?Because I think that's when it first really22300:17:27.670 --> 00:17:36.579struck me I killed something like thismiracle that I can't begin to explain how22400:17:36.579 --> 00:17:42.099much loved him. So I wasreading the Bible, not to really get22500:17:42.140 --> 00:17:45.890to know God, but because Iwas a writer and Auth I had always22600:17:45.930 --> 00:17:51.009loved writing from them from very youngage and and was always taught that the22700:17:51.089 --> 00:17:55.890best literature without the religious part ofit, the best literature ever written,22800:17:56.009 --> 00:18:00.519is the Bible. So I wasreading it for the literary knowledge, but22900:18:00.240 --> 00:18:04.920God got his hooks into me andand shortly after honder's my firstborn son was23000:18:06.039 --> 00:18:10.720born, I came to the Lord. Yeah, and the first sin that23100:18:10.799 --> 00:18:14.269I repented of before God was theabortion. That was the first thing that23200:18:14.309 --> 00:18:21.589I recognized was the most grievous ofall assault on God. Yeah, so23300:18:21.710 --> 00:18:25.950would you say, would it becorrect to say that you were pro life,23400:18:25.990 --> 00:18:30.819or at least headed in that directionbefore or around the same time that23500:18:30.940 --> 00:18:34.940you became a follower of Jesus?At the moment that I came to know23600:18:36.099 --> 00:18:40.660the Lord, I think that everythingchanged. Yeah, everything changed for me.23700:18:41.609 --> 00:18:44.890I was not filled with knowledge.I did, I had read the23800:18:44.970 --> 00:18:48.609Bible a lot, but it youknow how they talked about how scales are23900:18:48.890 --> 00:18:52.369fall from your eyes as as yougrow in the Lord. That's what was24000:18:52.410 --> 00:18:56.200happening with me. The Bible hadbeen I was clueless what it was really24100:18:56.240 --> 00:19:00.559saying until I came to the Lord. And and but was it was immediately24200:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.960revealed to me that abortion was wrong. So I would say at the moment24300:19:06.079 --> 00:19:12.269of conversion, that was when Irealized, how that I was pro life24400:19:12.309 --> 00:19:17.869because God's pro life. Yeah,and and and that from that moment on24500:19:18.630 --> 00:19:22.430I would not call myself an ardentlypro life person. I still was not24600:19:22.589 --> 00:19:30.380political, I didn't do anything toto help the pro life movement, but24700:19:30.619 --> 00:19:36.339I knew in my own heart thatabortion was terrible, yeah, a terrible24800:19:36.460 --> 00:19:38.970wrong, a terrible sin. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think one24900:19:40.009 --> 00:19:45.529of the things that happens, youknow, when we're we're not connected to25000:19:45.569 --> 00:19:52.039the Lord by being saved, wereally don't see, you know, what's25100:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.039wrong, like what's wrong with me? I'm not there's not the wrong.25200:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.680People are basically good. When wecome to know the Lord, we look25300:19:57.680 --> 00:20:03.680back and we see how, wow, I was really a monster. Really,25400:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.470that is so gracious and how hereveals that, because if he had25500:20:07.549 --> 00:20:11.069revealed the full extent to now whatI know about what a monster I was.25600:20:11.230 --> 00:20:14.869Yeah, I think I would havekilled myself right then and there.25700:20:15.190 --> 00:20:18.509But he actually I think, Ithink it's C S Lewis that that,25800:20:18.829 --> 00:20:23.019in one of his novels, describesthat our sin is peeled back like the25900:20:23.140 --> 00:20:26.859skin of an onion. Yeah,and he only reveals so much of WHO,26000:20:26.900 --> 00:20:30.900yeah, truly are at a time, because none of us could see,26100:20:30.940 --> 00:20:33.819if we saw ourselves the way Godsees, the truth of who we26200:20:33.980 --> 00:20:37.650are. I think at the momentthat we come to the Lord, I26300:20:37.049 --> 00:20:41.410do think none of us could bearit. I know I couldn't eat.26400:20:41.450 --> 00:20:45.410There are still even as he's stillpeeling back the onions, the skin with26500:20:45.650 --> 00:20:49.960me, that I say, really, that was me and I'm horrified.26600:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.759Yeah. So, so it's aprocess. Yeah, you know, coming26700:20:53.880 --> 00:20:57.240to the Lord. The first thinghe did was say that was sin and26800:20:57.440 --> 00:21:04.029then and then brought me, stepby step to where I am. Yeah.26900:21:04.549 --> 00:21:11.190Yeah, so, piggybacking on thatstatement, where you are now?27000:21:11.309 --> 00:21:15.829Yeah, so you surrendered your lifeto Jesus when you when your first son,27100:21:15.950 --> 00:21:22.380around the time when you're in yourfirst right son was was born and27200:21:23.900 --> 00:21:26.619you were pro life, or atleast you know you agreed with what God's27300:21:26.619 --> 00:21:30.380Word says, you see the valueof human beings, that God would send27400:21:30.460 --> 00:21:33.250his own son to die so thatwe could be rescued, we could be27500:21:33.289 --> 00:21:37.730safe from our sins. So you'resort of like a lot of Christians,27600:21:37.369 --> 00:21:42.210almost like the default position for lostpeople is pro choice. The default people27700:21:42.329 --> 00:21:47.640position, for Christians maybe, isprolife. But that being the case,27800:21:47.880 --> 00:21:51.480we know that there are a lotof Christians who claim at least pro life27900:21:51.559 --> 00:21:56.359convictions that don't really carry those convictionsthrough to what you would think is a28000:21:56.480 --> 00:22:03.910natural conclusion, like every life shouldbe protected, and I believe that God's28100:22:03.950 --> 00:22:07.349Word is true about life. Therefore, I should go and do what the28200:22:07.390 --> 00:22:10.029Bible says, which is speak forthose who can't speak for themselves. So28300:22:10.150 --> 00:22:12.470how did you get there? Howdid you get from, yeah, kind28400:22:12.509 --> 00:22:18.779of prolife in a nominal way toprolife in a an active way? Yeah,28500:22:19.019 --> 00:22:22.660when I'm coming to an abortion clink, because that's crazy. Yeah,28600:22:22.259 --> 00:22:26.099until you're saying this and I'm goingthrough this whole story in a funny way,28700:22:26.180 --> 00:22:29.859and I never really thought of thisbefore. It was, again,28800:22:29.859 --> 00:22:34.450a book that that brought me towhere I am today, or a book28900:22:34.490 --> 00:22:38.930that I wanted to write. SoI homeschooled all of my children and and29000:22:40.089 --> 00:22:45.359I was on a homeschool facebook groupwith Lisa Metsker, who is a second29100:22:45.519 --> 00:22:51.920generation pro life champion. Her familyhas been in the pro life movement forever29200:22:52.079 --> 00:22:56.960and and Lisa great homeschool or alsowith a large family, and she would29300:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.750post on this homeschool facebook group.I became a friend on facebook. I29400:23:00.910 --> 00:23:07.069had never met her facetoface, butshe would post about being out on the29500:23:07.190 --> 00:23:12.940sidewalk here at latrobe and and allof these women who were coming for an29600:23:12.980 --> 00:23:15.940abortion who would change their mind,and I was shocked. I thought for29700:23:17.059 --> 00:23:19.019sure she was lying. Yeah,just trying to I just could not believe29800:23:19.140 --> 00:23:22.380that this was happening. And shewould talk about being there in the thunder29900:23:22.420 --> 00:23:26.329hurricanes. I mean they were thereno matter how wretched the weather was,30000:23:26.730 --> 00:23:30.329and I thought this is a story, this is a I knew nothing about30100:23:30.329 --> 00:23:33.529it. I was clueless. Again, you would think I you know,30200:23:33.609 --> 00:23:37.089I'm not dumb. I don't knowwhy I was so clueless. But so30300:23:37.170 --> 00:23:41.599I contacted Lisa and said could Iwrite your story? I'm an author.30400:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.480I would like to write a bookabout Sidebook, a sidebotcount. So there30500:23:45.519 --> 00:23:48.880could I be a fly on yourwall and she said absolutely, that would30600:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.000be wonderful and the best way todo that would be to come to the30700:23:52.200 --> 00:23:57.309training, the cities for life sidewalktraining, and then go on the sidewalk30800:23:57.430 --> 00:24:03.430and and see what happens out there. And and I said okay, but30900:24:04.109 --> 00:24:10.180something in me just was terrified.I had not yet spoken of my own31000:24:10.180 --> 00:24:14.220abortion to anyone. No one knew, and you know, that was forty31100:24:14.259 --> 00:24:18.380years ago at that point, thirtyfive years ago, deep dark secret,31200:24:18.500 --> 00:24:22.859still deep shame over it. Ithink I did have to fill out a31300:24:22.900 --> 00:24:26.690volunteer form. I vaguely recall,and I think the question on it said31400:24:26.809 --> 00:24:33.769have you ever had a I forgettrauma associated with abortion, traumatic experience with31500:24:33.849 --> 00:24:37.930abortion and the way that I wasnot going to outright lie, but I31600:24:37.089 --> 00:24:41.119was not going to answer it.So I wrote well, I was raised31700:24:41.160 --> 00:24:45.640during the time that rovy way waslegalized, was passed, and and so31800:24:45.880 --> 00:24:52.549I believed abortion was valid and agood choice and that's pretty traumatic now looking31900:24:52.630 --> 00:24:56.150back. That's how I hedged thequestion and fortunately no one out will maybe32000:24:56.190 --> 00:25:02.750not. Fortunately no one ever askedme. So I tried not to come32100:25:02.829 --> 00:25:06.109to the training. I caught it, but ended up coming and sitting right32200:25:06.150 --> 00:25:11.619in front of me was a deafwoman who had it an interpreter. Another32300:25:11.660 --> 00:25:15.779fellow Sidewalk Council Rebecca, was interpretingfor her and it was before the class32400:25:15.859 --> 00:25:18.779started. I had told Lisa I'llcome to the class but I will not32500:25:19.019 --> 00:25:27.049go in front of the abortion center. And the deaf woman signed and spoke.32600:25:27.210 --> 00:25:30.930She could, she could actually speakvery well even though she couldn't hear32700:25:30.970 --> 00:25:37.279a sound. But she she said, how can I be of use because32800:25:37.319 --> 00:25:41.839I can't hear what anyone saying?If I stop a car, if a32900:25:41.920 --> 00:25:47.119woman comes to talk with me,and Rebecca said and signed, but also33000:25:47.240 --> 00:25:51.630said because this woman could read lips. So she said, can you say33100:25:52.109 --> 00:25:56.430please, don't kill your baby?And the deaf woman said yes, and33200:25:56.630 --> 00:26:02.710then Rebecca said, than God willuse you. And and I thought here33300:26:02.789 --> 00:26:07.299am I, an able bodied womanwho can hear and speak relatively okay,33400:26:07.940 --> 00:26:15.380and and I'm terrified to just evengo to the sidewalk to see what happens33500:26:17.220 --> 00:26:22.250again, not even realizing my ownself needed healing and that that was where33600:26:22.329 --> 00:26:26.730that fear yes coming out of.So when she said that, I toldly33700:26:26.809 --> 00:26:32.170saw I'll go to the sidewalk andI went and I asked a thousand questions.33800:26:32.210 --> 00:26:37.079I was traumatized, horrified. Icould not believe when I saw all33900:26:37.200 --> 00:26:45.319those women streaming into that place.I had no idea and and I saw.34000:26:45.359 --> 00:26:47.950I stayed for I'd in fact,I was the last person to leave34100:26:48.269 --> 00:26:55.750of the group and and pulled awayto drive home and just started sobbing and34200:26:55.829 --> 00:27:02.339couldn't stop crying so hard I couldn'tsee to drive and pulled over, cried34300:27:02.500 --> 00:27:04.259for an hour and then called leaseand said, what day do you need34400:27:04.380 --> 00:27:07.380me? It was a Monday.was when they needed me. I'm still34500:27:07.460 --> 00:27:15.619Mondays. It's still my favorite dayto be out there and started that following34600:27:15.660 --> 00:27:18.849week. Yeah, turing, Idid write the book eventually, not about34700:27:18.890 --> 00:27:22.410Lisa's life but about sidewalk counting andactually my first right, the forward to34800:27:22.490 --> 00:27:25.930that, but didn't the singing inthe darkness. Yeah, right, seeing34900:27:25.970 --> 00:27:29.410it singing in the dark word andand you did write then the Ford of35000:27:29.490 --> 00:27:33.920the forward and have and they havesince written many, many novels about the35100:27:34.039 --> 00:27:40.480pro life because that's what brought mefull circle. Yeah, the Lord and35200:27:40.640 --> 00:27:47.549to a recognition that abortion is oneof the pivotal issues of the day in35300:27:48.589 --> 00:27:52.670keeping people away from God and itas an example of the one of the35400:27:52.710 --> 00:28:00.500most severe rebellions against God. Yeah, and so just with a few more35500:28:00.579 --> 00:28:07.099minutes that we have left. Howhave so the Lord's obviously grown you in35600:28:07.220 --> 00:28:11.380so many ways. Yeah, from, you know, being a young lady35700:28:11.420 --> 00:28:17.769who would yielded to abortion and thenultimately to a mom whose eyes are open35800:28:18.130 --> 00:28:21.849by being a mom and come tothe Lord and and then, you know,35900:28:21.970 --> 00:28:26.609walking with God and then coming outto the sidewalk. Since you've started36000:28:26.009 --> 00:28:30.279coming out, you started out asa volunteer on Mondays with cities for life,36100:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.359five years ago, right and ahalf. Yeah, and and now36200:28:33.880 --> 00:28:38.079because we just like man, she'sawesome and the Lord is using her in36300:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.630so many awesome ways. It's likeman, you know, I told the36400:28:42.589 --> 00:28:47.069the board of cities for life,like man, we should hire this lady,36500:28:47.190 --> 00:28:51.069like we need her to train volunteers, because she can. She can36600:28:51.150 --> 00:28:52.990train volunteers in a way that Ijust can't, you know, from a36700:28:53.069 --> 00:28:59.819perspective of post aboard of woman,and also just very, very evangelistic.36800:28:59.940 --> 00:29:03.019You just have an evangelist call inso many ways. So how has the36900:29:03.099 --> 00:29:07.900Lord grown you in your walk withhim and those five years. And would37000:29:07.900 --> 00:29:12.250you say that you know in thosefive years of being on the sidewalks that37100:29:12.289 --> 00:29:17.490you've grown in ways that maybe youwouldn't have otherwise in the Lord? Yeah,37200:29:17.569 --> 00:29:25.880there's just absolutely no doubt. Ihad never, I've never experienced the37300:29:26.119 --> 00:29:30.640closeness to God, the sense ofmy purpose before God, the scent,37400:29:30.839 --> 00:29:33.359the understanding of a calling. Idid not know what that was, I37500:29:33.519 --> 00:29:37.710really didn't. I thought it wasa very faithful Christian. For those you37600:29:37.829 --> 00:29:41.349know the past, I've been aChristian now for thirty years and I've only37700:29:41.390 --> 00:29:45.269been out here for five and ahalf. I think I led maybe two37800:29:45.349 --> 00:29:48.309people to the Lord in those thirtyyears and in the past five and a37900:29:48.349 --> 00:30:00.140half I don't know how many lots. And and I I recognized that when38000:30:00.180 --> 00:30:04.339when God calls us to do something, he first of all he equips us,38100:30:04.380 --> 00:30:07.730he fully equips us to do whateverhe's called us to do. But38200:30:07.890 --> 00:30:14.609there is no greater joy than doingwhat God has called you to do,38300:30:15.130 --> 00:30:19.289despite the fact that there is significantpersecution. Yeah, on the sidewalk,38400:30:19.329 --> 00:30:26.079sidewalk counselor's face some pretty big struggles. My whole world fell apart the year38500:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.319that I started sidewalk counseling and Ithink that is important that anyone considering that38600:30:30.559 --> 00:30:36.309would know Satan attacks, he hates, he hates the family and abortion is38700:30:36.430 --> 00:30:41.029his his grown jewel. He youknow, it destroys so many women,38800:30:41.230 --> 00:30:45.670obviously, so many babies, somany families. So when, in the38900:30:45.990 --> 00:30:51.700midst of all that persecution and allthe attacks in every area of my life,39000:30:51.740 --> 00:30:55.900including my health, I was diagnosedwith bring a bring breast cancer,39100:30:56.500 --> 00:31:00.980and and scary time and there wereperiods of great fear. But I will39200:31:02.019 --> 00:31:07.890tell you there was a piece thatsurpasses understanding throughout that very difficult year and39300:31:08.130 --> 00:31:14.130my happiest moments are on the sideflock, because I knew God is you39400:31:14.289 --> 00:31:19.400seeing me and and there is nothinglike watching a life that was going to39500:31:19.519 --> 00:31:26.480be destroyed make a one hundred andeighty turn from destruction and instead turn to39600:31:26.559 --> 00:31:30.400God. Nothing, nothing compares,as you know, nothing. Nothing.39700:31:30.519 --> 00:31:33.789Yeah, here's with that. Yeah, it's you know, I liking it39800:31:33.150 --> 00:31:38.269too, physical exercise. You know, it's a laborious thing to make your39900:31:38.309 --> 00:31:44.430body do things it doesn't want todo. And the fact is, though,40000:31:44.509 --> 00:31:47.660you're not going to your muscles aren'tgoing to grow in ways that they40100:31:47.819 --> 00:31:52.339need to grow unless you use themin ways that you don't normally use them.40200:31:52.420 --> 00:31:56.660The same way. Within our spirit, you know, we have to40300:31:56.740 --> 00:32:00.140push you know, like Paul says, the spirit is willing with the flesh40400:32:00.299 --> 00:32:02.849is weak. Right, our fleshdoesn't want to go out and share the40500:32:02.930 --> 00:32:06.849Gospel, doesn't want to make itselfuncomfortable, doesn't want to go out to40600:32:06.890 --> 00:32:09.730the sidewalk, doesn't want to speakagainst things that are evil in our society.40700:32:10.369 --> 00:32:13.890Our spirit does because it wants todo the will of God. So40800:32:13.970 --> 00:32:16.920we have to exercise ourselves and wehave to put ourselves out of our comfort40900:32:16.920 --> 00:32:21.400zone. Yeah, and you know, I've I've seen you do that over41000:32:21.480 --> 00:32:24.160the years and just seeing God,God use you in so many powerful ways.41100:32:24.640 --> 00:32:29.920But I know that it's you knowfrom experience it's not us. It's41200:32:29.960 --> 00:32:32.869not us that's doing the stuff,it's the Lord and we're just making ourselves41300:32:32.910 --> 00:32:37.269available, we're just laying our bodies, as the Bible says in Romans Chapter41400:32:37.349 --> 00:32:40.630Twelve, the living sacrifice whole inacceptable to the Lord. We put that41500:32:40.710 --> 00:32:45.140sacrifice on the altar in the Lord, with his holy fire, comes and41600:32:45.220 --> 00:32:50.019consumes that sacrifice and then gives usgrace to give a better and more significant41700:32:50.059 --> 00:32:53.660sacrifice. Yeah, but it startsand just those initial steps of faith when41800:32:53.700 --> 00:32:58.380you agree and that submission of yourwill, and then the Holy Spirit when41900:32:58.380 --> 00:33:00.089I see when I share the Gospelwith people and I say and then the42000:33:00.170 --> 00:33:06.289Holy Spirit when you proclaim Jesus isLord and submit your life to him.42100:33:06.930 --> 00:33:12.089Here's the wonderful thing. The HolySpirit enters and in dwells you and and42200:33:12.329 --> 00:33:15.519that is something. If I wereto name one thing that's changed the most42300:33:15.799 --> 00:33:20.200in me since being on the sidewalk, is that recognition that I am and42400:33:20.240 --> 00:33:24.079dwelt by the Holy Spirit and nothingthat happens on that sidebook is me.42500:33:24.519 --> 00:33:30.349Yeah, it's the Holy Spirit usingme and it's a privilege and an honor42600:33:30.470 --> 00:33:36.509to be used by him, butit's God working through me and it it's42700:33:36.869 --> 00:33:43.460amazing. Yeah, yeah, Iappreciate you sharing and appreciate you know all42800:33:43.539 --> 00:33:45.099that the the Lord, is doingthrough you and all that the Lord has42900:33:45.180 --> 00:33:49.539done in you, and we wantto encourage those who are watching and those43000:33:49.579 --> 00:33:52.339who are listening. We had tojust make ourselves available to the Lord and43100:33:53.019 --> 00:33:58.849we present ourselves a sacrifice to theLord and the Lord will use anyone who43200:33:58.849 --> 00:34:00.490will say, you know what,Lord, here I am, send me.43300:34:01.569 --> 00:34:06.809And we have in this nation abig battle to fight, and all43400:34:07.009 --> 00:34:10.039the battle that we have to fightis not a natural battle. You know,43500:34:10.159 --> 00:34:15.760our enemies are not flesh and blood, like the Bible says, but43600:34:15.880 --> 00:34:17.960principalities, and so there's a spiritualbattle that we're to fighting. Christians,43700:34:19.000 --> 00:34:23.079we're called to this battle. We'realso equipped to fight this battle and as43800:34:23.159 --> 00:34:27.630in our first podcast, as wetalked about, this is not a political43900:34:27.710 --> 00:34:30.989issue, this is not just aDemocrat Republican issue or whatever. This is44000:34:31.070 --> 00:34:35.590a spiritual issue. This is agospel issue. If you're a believer,44100:34:35.909 --> 00:34:38.699God has equipped you by changing yourlife, first and foremost by the power44200:34:38.699 --> 00:34:44.579of the Holy Spirit through the Gospel, and if you'll just make yourself available,44300:34:44.739 --> 00:34:47.420whatever that means, that sidewalk counselingis at working at a pregnancy center?44400:34:49.019 --> 00:34:52.849Is that with politics, because politicscertainly can do some things. Can44500:34:52.889 --> 00:34:55.889God use you in that way maybeto spur some some folks who are not44600:34:58.130 --> 00:35:00.610doing right, and I'm in apolitical realm, to do right? Whatever44700:35:00.690 --> 00:35:02.849the Lord in your church, youknow, God's calling you to to speak44800:35:02.889 --> 00:35:06.730to your pastor, encourage him totalk about the issue of abortion, to44900:35:06.769 --> 00:35:10.039speak to Sunday schools, whatever theLord's calling you to to protect the lives45000:35:10.079 --> 00:35:15.360of the unborn. He's equipped youby changing your heart through the power of45100:35:15.440 --> 00:35:19.320the Gospel. So step out infaith and we want to continue to encourage45200:35:19.320 --> 00:35:22.030you. So we're going to continueto be putting out podcast and putting out45300:35:22.030 --> 00:35:27.670videos to encourage you guys, andcertainly engage with any of the the podcast45400:35:27.750 --> 00:35:31.829or videos. You can send mean email. DPARKS AT CITIES FOR LIFECOM,45500:35:31.989 --> 00:35:37.739cities in the number four and lifecom. You can email Vicky at vcasti45600:35:37.780 --> 00:35:43.380Org. Spell that real quick.A Seo Arg Yep, Vicki Costi Orsa45700:35:43.420 --> 00:35:46.460v cost. You work at citiesfor Lifecom and we'd love to talk with45800:35:46.579 --> 00:35:51.050you. We'd love to just encourageyou. We also have a has one45900:35:51.130 --> 00:35:55.170ministry that's design really to help peoplenationally who are not local here in Charlotte46000:35:55.250 --> 00:35:59.010but are around the country and evenaround the world. Want to get involved46100:35:59.010 --> 00:36:02.769with sidewalk counseling. You can goto www dot sidewalks for life. That46200:36:02.889 --> 00:36:07.280sidewalks the number four and lifecom,and that's an equipping website that will help46300:36:07.320 --> 00:36:12.400equip you to get involved on thesidewalks at your local abortion center, and46400:36:12.519 --> 00:36:16.119that's just a resource that we've createdfor that purpose. So the Lord bless46500:36:16.119 --> 00:36:21.150you, guys, appreciate you watchand appreciate you listening and and be blessed46600:36:21.190 --> 00:36:35.500as you stand for life, forlove. Give me our loft for gratitude.46700:36:37.579 --> 00:36:46.369I know it will cost me mylove. Nothing's too precious in some46800:36:47.289 --> you