Empowering Vs. Enabling (Part 1)- Ministering to Abortion Minded Women

0:00 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. Send Me, Lord, I am. You're welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. These next two episodes are going to be a two part series on dealing with abortion minded women and empowering versus enabling. Is An important subject in Christian ministry, so stay tuned. I felt show passish, touch your heart. Use Welcome to the Gospel Center per life podcast. We're going to talk about empowering versus enabling when ministering too abortion minded women. We hope this will be a two part that we won't stretch it out too long, because we think it will be pretty long if we do it in one part. So we're going to try to cut it up into two parts and and really deal with, you know, the spiritual side of this and then the practical side to it, and we'll touch on those two as we get through the whole thing.

1:00 But I think the first part will be more dealing with the spiritual, scriptural side of it and then the practical side will be in the second part. And this is Yo really speaking a lot from experience, from the experience we've had a sidewalk counselors and minister into abortion minded women and how we've fallen into the trap of enabling rather than empowering and we've learned some things. Yeah, and you know, through mistakes. A lot of times that's how sometimes doing it right, sometimes right, sometimes not doing it so so right. But the Lord is very gracious in the way that he teaches us and then redeems things where we make mistakes. But with any within any ministry. Now this particularly focused on prolife ministry, you know, pregnancy center ministry. It maybe even maternity home ministries, course, sidewalk counseling ministries, but really in any ministry that you're involved in. I mean people will tell you within homeless ministries, within you know, dealing with domestic abuse situation, whatever ministry that you're in, whatever you know, organization, nonprofit sort of thing that you're in, when you're dealing with people, there's going to be this empowering versus enabling.

2:07 I mean we all want to empower people to be what God wants them to be, what God has called them to be, but we all can fall in to the trap of enabling and we'll see that biblically that there's some people in the Bible who have fallen into that trap or who you know are the ones that set the trap? I guess you could say in the name and love, in the name of love, and you know that is you know, that's what we're called to do. We're called to love right. As a matter of fact, Jesus said by this they will know that you're my disciples for the love that you have for each other. Right, Bible tells us, and First John, that God is love. Like the very nature of God is defined with love. Now, of course, later on the Hebrews, or before that, and Hebrews that says God is a consuming fire, but but he's also love. That's like, you know. And so as Christians we the love of God, the Bible says, has been shed abroad in our hearts. So we want to love people, but but often times or sometimes we fall into the trap of is really just kind of this emotional love rather than actually loving people. So let's dive into this thing.

3:15 You've got an article that you wrote and we hope to be able to link this article, if we get it out on the sidewalks for life site in time, to be able to put it with this podcast. It's one of the parts of this podcast where you're talking about compassion verslain eight versus enabling, or empowering versus enabling. So jump into that article. You wrote this article. This is from some experience that you've heard. Yeah, and not just one experience. We've all experienced this. Yeah, and anyway. So we want to empower you, want to help you, guys. That's why we're going to Vicki's are written this article and put it out and that's what we're talking about in the podcast. So yea been yeah, so I thought I would be good to start with a case study. Okay, I'm not going to name any names, I'm not going to give specifics that will allow anyone to identify this woman, but this is a an actual person that that I have worked with, yeah, and and others have worked with, and so I'll just give you a kind of an overview of this woman. She she came to us and chose life, yeah, and was in pretty desperate circumstances in every area, and so we gave her really resources that assisted her in every area. Like we we gave the mentorship program through Love Life Charlotte.

4:30 So we gave her mentor that was going to guide and help and be a friend. We we gave her a baby shower. They gave the first full two years of equipment and close that that baby would need. We helped her pay outstanding bills through actually another sister ministry. We got her involved in a program that gave parenting help and child care in a wonderful residential program, so she didn't have to worry about anything. Yeah, we helped her secure a safe apartment. We helped with gas cards, grocery cards, phone bills, discipleship and spiritual counseling. And she had a good job. She had gotten that herself, although we did help her clean up her resume. Yeah, so really, there isn't a whole lot more you could do for someone.

5:23 We had truly kind of given her a chance at a brand new start. She recommitted, or maybe for the first time, committed her life to the Lord. It seemed to be firm and sincere, and so she was, you know, kind of our poster child and she was on the path to this great new beginning. Right. And then, after a few months, the old patterns began to re emerge, the same terrible choices, the same sinful lifestyle. Yeah, that had kind of put her in this mess in the first place and our world crumbled again. She cried, she repented, she came to us and requested additional help and and we did help.

6:15 Again. We, I think, not only are we called to be loving and to give, but sacrificial giving is is a definitely a biblical concept, and so so we we gave again and again. She she said all the right things, she initially did all the right behaviors that indicated that there was change, and and then her actions kind of showed that this was not the case. She began to fall back again the same pattern of you know, it's kind of the pattern in the Bible, isn't it? We love the issuelites and turning to God and crying out in their despair and then God helps them and then they had them back to they turn right back to the same stuff and then they cry out to God in their despair, and that's what we were seeing. Yeah, and and it wasn't just our ministry but another ministry that had been involved with her that said this is what they had faced as well. Yeah, so that's kind of what what actually sparked the idea of this article and this podcast was. When do you know it happens, it happens a lot, where where you have helped someone, you have truly, you thought, empowered them on a good path, a path towards God and self independence and and following the Lord and making good choices, and then

7:48 you find out, well, you didn't, you kind of enabled them into dependence, that the goal was always you know that kind of old adage. It's better to teach someone to fish than to give them a fish, right, teach them to get fishing themselves, and that's that's what we want to do, right. We want to to teach these women how to be good mothers and all these things. Would get plug into programs that teach them that stuff rather than just giving them some baby stuff and give them some money, right, or pay their bills or whatever. We want to know all those things. If we do those things, the end desires always that they could be solid on their feet. So that's always the the desire, right, but that desires not always fulfilled. Yeah, for sure. And sometimes, you know, again, we can, we can fall into the chap and we you know, that's a hard line to try to figure out. Sometimes, am I enabling or am I empowering? You know, just from personal experience, completely unrelated to this, because I've got some uncles that the don't do so well, right, they've not done so well their whole lives and, you know, gotten money off of parents and got money off of their you know, my grandparents and stuff like that. To uncle's, one on each side that, you know, have been as I look at they've been empowered. The other drug addicts and just problems and problems and problems. Well, they've been enabled. They've been enabled. Sorry that they didn't say I've not been empowered. Right, yeah, you've been enabled, and it's like, you know, I even had upper things that I've been asked to do

9:20 to help them where I'm like, I don't want to enable and I'm just not going to. Yeah, but it is hard, especially, you know, if it's a family member, but it's basically also if it's a woman with children. You know, she's got other children, often times that's right, and baby in her womb. Yeah, and it's like wow, how in the world do I do I balance this without being an enabler but an empower you know, a lot of times guilt can drive us and that's one of the things that we tell our side wall counselors. We're training them, is it? No matter what you do, it cannot be driven by guilt. It has to be driven by God, by the use of God and by his truth and his word. Right, right. Yeah, and and you know, a lot of I don't know a lot, but some of the moms we work with our active addicts, yeah, or alcoholics or something.

10:07 Yeah, that is addictive and and that's you know, and that that's a whole, a whole different layer of discernment between how do you help empower them versus enable them to just continue in a destructive life style. So so the first thing to really think about is, well, what does the Bible say about how we're to treat others? Because the Bible is clear. You, love is supreme. I mean it, it I I don't know if I want to use the word supreme because there are other truth is is certainly up there with love, but love is certain. We are to treat each other with love and and by our our love the world will know us and they will know that where the followers of Jesus. So so I have a few verses. Okay, and and so the the first one is Hebrews.

11:05 One thousand three, UND sixteen. Okay, and do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. So we're did do good. Yeah, we're to share, and it's sacrificial. Yeah, absolutely, okay. First John Seventeen. But if anyone sees the world's goods and see says brother, I'm sorry, has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? Yeah, so we certainly don't want to be guilty of closing our now our hearts. No, and and some brother our love, our love, God's love abides when we open our heart that person who'say need, especially if we have the resources we have. The world's goods, it says Luke, Fifteen, twenty, he arose and came to his father. This is the prodigal son. Yeah, and this is the son who had wasted his father's fortune. And what does his father do? Does he kick him out and and say no, you scoundrel, get away. He says he felt compassion and ran and embraced him and kissed him and then welcome to him, right back into his home and caring for his needs and even killed the fatted calf. Killed The fatted calf. Yeah, proverbs one thousand nine hundred and seventeen. Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed. Yeah. Yeah, another scripture that

12:37 comes to mind, which I see you have it down there, and it's the scripture that really is the I guess it's sort of like our mission statement, Philosophy upon which our whole ministry is really basic. Right. So well, kinds of the cities for life. Yeah, is the parable of the Good Samaritan. Yeah, and we know you as are listening, you probably know the story. Right. A man was going from Jerusalem to Jericho and he fell among these, which means thieves overtook him, beat him and left him naked and half dead in the ditch. And in the course we know the Good Samaritan. This is what you know the Samaritan's purse and all these other ministries we use that because we understand the Samaritan didn't pass by on the other side. He saw the man's need and he met the man's need.

13:18 And so you know, it's biblical to meet People's needs, right, it's it's man dated by the scripture. Yeah, and they're ongoing needs. Yeah, in that in that parable, because he pays, he pays some the inkeeper money and says this is for future needs and if there's more when I returned. So he's we're talking about ongoing needs, which I think is very much the heart of cities for life. Yeah, absolutely, and you of course, that scripture and that story that Jesus gave that parable was spurred on by someone asking, well, who is my neighbor? Because Jesus is saying they were to love God and we're to love our neighbor. So the context of that scripture is loving our neighbor and are in the context of really what we're talking about is empowering people and and helping people to get into a better place, has to deal with loving our neighbor. Now, as people who believe that unborn children are individuals made in God's image, that are people as well, we understand that baby is our neighbor to but we also see the mother as our neighbor. She's like you know, we say, as far as we're concerned, they are two people in the ditch. The ditch is the abortion censer and the two people are the mom and the baby. Want to try to get them both out of that ditch, get their wounds cleaned off and get them in and end, which is, you know, what other ministries can meet their needs, right. And so you know, the motivation is one of loving our neighbor as ourselves. Yeah, but that motivation can be can be twisted sometimes, it can be manipulated, it can.

14:41 Yeah. Yeah, so there's always that tension. I know I feel it and I imagine everyone does in in any kind of pro life ministry, that tension between what is loving and what is harming them and allowing them to continue on a destructive path. Because if they're at that abortion center, there's destruction. Yeah, there is a destructive probably series of choices and life that they have made that has led them there. So, you know, well, maybe we could should look at well, what is love? What is love? And one of the most famous passages, course, about love is passive. That's right. First Corinthians Thirteen, chapter thirteen. Yeah, yeah, do you have that there? How, Dude? Okay, and so you know, if you've been to a wedding thanks robe, when I wasn't even a Christian yet. Okay, or was I? Maybe I was. I was a new Christian and they told me that they wanted me to do a reading, pick any scripture. I was a brand new Christian, and so I'm reading through the bye, but I said, here's a great one for wedding. I had no idea that, like, everybody uses this in a way. Yeah, good idea that. He did great picking out the scripture.

15:52 All right, web is a powerful scripture. It is, and you know, I like to refer to it as the love ver or the love chapter. Yes, conthians chapter thirteen. Will Start in verse for First Corinthians Thirteen, for love suffers long and is kind. Love Does Not Envy, love does not parade itself, is not puffed up, does not behave rudely. Wow, I need help with that. Sometimes does not seek its own and so that's part of that. Giving sacrificially, that's part of that. You know, that motivation to empower other people. Yeah, is not provoked, thinks no evil, does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth. And this is love. Again, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. And then the first part of verse aid I'll read. Love never fails. Yeah, and so we should be motivated by love and anything that we do motivated by love for God, and that's an important point. I think that we can't miss here, is that our motivation of love must be, you know, Jesus said it, Love God. So these two commands are great though. The Greatest Commands Love God and love your neighbor. And I think understanding that the love for God supposed to come first so that we can properly love our neighbor, because you really can't love your neighbor properly, in a god honoring way, in a Godly way, unless you love God first. Right, but out of that love for God naturally flows. It's almost like Jesus is saying, you know what, if you love God, you're going to love your neighbor,

17:23 and if you don't love your neighbor, you proven that you don't love God. So these two things are tied together, right. But in this your passage, as it talks about love and in love suffers long. Love is kind lood, love does not envy, love doesn't seek its own. We have to be careful because you point out, as you as we were talking through this podcast, that love in verse ex just not rejoice in iniquity, right, sin, and it does not and just in rejoices in in the Truth and truth. And so, you know, that speaks to this whole idea again of loving God first. Yeah, that we want truth, we want to seek the truth. The motivation is not just a good feeling, and that's one of the things, maybe jumping ahead a little bit of what we want to talk about the first or in the second part. But but you know, a lot of times our love and the the acts of love that we do or really motivated by self and really motivated by making ourselves feel better and not in what is in the best interest of that object of our love. Yeah, person that we're loving. Yeah, so I think one of the things that I'll encourage you guys that are listening, whether you minister in a pregnancy centers, I while counseling or eternity home or whatever ministry, Soup Kitchen, whatever ministry is, that we need to check our motives.

18:47 We need to check why are we doing this thing that we do and are we motivated by guilt? We motivated by making ourselves selves feel more validated as Christians? You know, I feel more like a Christian when I do this. You know some of the some of the things. You know, just a practical example, and I can tell you anybody who is ever ministered to homeless people, anybody who runs a homeless ministry, whether it be, you know, a homeless shelter or soup kitchen or whatever, will tell you one of the worst things you can do from a homeless person is give them a dollar, five dollars change that you have in your car when they're on the street corner asking for money. You know that's that's one of the worst things that you can do for that person. Now, of course, because you know, we have this warm fuzzy feeling when we give somebody money. It makes us feel better and you know, I've heard people literally say that why I give him money. It just made me feel good to do that and listen. It might make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but you have to ask yourself, is this about me? Like if I really I'll say this a lot of Christian ministry in this country, especially, I don't know about other countries, been in this country, is motivated by US feeling better, feeling more Christian, feeling more validated as Christians or warm fuzzy feelings inside, and it's not really motivated by love for God and love from people.

20:03 You know, if you truly love your neighbor, that person standing on the treat street corner asking for money, the best thing you can do, and this is again, this is what people that own those those ministries are actually reach homeless people on a regular basis, but a lot of energy and pour their lives into the saying, will tell you, is that the worst thing you can do is give the money. The best thing you do can do is point them toward a homeless shelter, because if you give the money, you're keeping them out on the street. You're actually empowering them to stay out on the street rather than empowering them to overcome the homelessness. Because you know, and I'm off track a little bit and talking about homeless people, but not so much if you kind of see that the look at the concept, look at the constatoring versus, is that there are ministries that have put a lot of energy into programs and things that have been proven to get people out of homelessness, to get people out of me. A lot of times it's drug addiction, mental health issues and stuff like that that keep people homeless.

20:53 Yeah, these ministries have put a lot of effort. People have again given their lives to put effort energy into programs that will actually get people out of that stuff rather than allowing them to stay in it. But you if you're giving a money on the street corner, you're empowering them to stay in. You're actually enabling them, yeah, which is not helpful. Yeah, and in the same way, when we're dealing with an abortion minded woman, we have to be careful that the programs and the things that we come up with and, you know, the money that we give or whatever, is actually empowering them rather than enabling them. Right, and it's a hard right. It's a hard balance to strike. But again, the motivation has to be one of love, but it has to be one of true Biblical love, that does it just concern itself with how it makes me feel, but actually is it going to honor God and is it going to actually empower that person for to do righteousness? Today, in this first Corinthians description of love, is it going to result in rejoicing in righteousness rather than in sin? And and I think there's always the danger that these women will remain. They are often in an am moral relationship with with someone and and and by US helping sometimes we allow them to remain in that relationship with so that's that's rejoicing in an unrighteousness in a sense. And and so that the truth is that God's

22:26 Word is clear about sexual purity and true love will point them in that direction. Or Yeah, it's not love. Yeah, and it's in nurse of course. You know, as a ministry ourselves, we've always said our motivation and everything that we do, everything that we do seasoned with the Gospel. So whether we do a baby shower or whether we do, you know, counseling, oneonone sort of thing, anything that we do, mentoring, anything like that, it has to be seasoned with the Gospel. Now does it mean again that we're we've talked about this in the past podcast. We're not shoving the Gospel Down People's throats, right, but we are letting them understand that our goal is that you come to know the Lord. It's not just that we meet your practical needs, we give you some baby stuff and we become friends with you. But and we certainly do want to bless them and there's not some impure motivation here, but we understand the most pressing need is that they know the Lord, because we aren't always going to be there cities for life. It always going to be there to help them in every situation.

23:23 You know, other ministries aren't going to be there, but the Lord will, and they need to understand that he's the one that they ought to cling to so that they can can be empowered to be the mothers and the father's that they're called to be. That's right. The ultimate and power were yeah, it's absolutely is God. Yeah, and of course we don't say that it's just some Tri cliche statement. You know, you need Jesus, you know right, because some people can make it that. No, we really believe, because we've experienced ourselves, that's right, that the power of the God pospile will change your heart. And if your hearts change and you're the focus of your life is changed, then you'll find empowerment in the things that God has provided for you. You know, you'll find I mean, we've seen women who've been in very dire situations and they surrendered their lives to the Lord and that situation has changed. Now we've seen situations like the one we're talking about, where things didn't go so well. It seemed that she committed herself to the Lord, but she really didn't. Yeah, but we've seen God just do some very amazing things. In the immediate circumstances really didn't change. The heart changed. And then, because the heart, the heart change of this mom, her circumstances began to change because she began to cling to the Lord rather than clinging to sin, a sinful relationship and things that just sucked the life out of her. And she began to cling to the Lord, one who puts life into her, and make choices. Then the choices proceed from that heart and the choices then were more godly, wiser discerning choices. So so, yeah, so, and you know, we did a podcast with one of those MOMS. Yeah, really, her life turned

24:56 around. She made choices for God and for for the life of that baby and and all of her choices began to line up with that in her mind, that I'm going to honor the Lord. So the Bible does have examples, though, which I think our help us to understand what what is an enabler look like? Okay, and so the first one is I don't know if you want to read it, but it's from GNESIS twenty seven versus five to thirteen, and that's the story of Rebecca. Okay, when? When? Yeah, when she's well, just use being Isaac. You can kind of general rundown of this. You've got the scripture right there. I don't know we need to read the whole passage, but just kind of give an idea of where you're coming from because, you know, as we were talking through this podcast beforehand, some scriptures did come to mind. This one did not, in but this one's great. Actually, the way that you sort of laid it out to me is like wow, yeah, yeah, it's a clastic example of enabler. And so so Rebecca overhears her husband, Isaac, talking to one of her two boys, the the younger of the yeah boys. He's sort of the set in the stage for this. Before you get into this is you're thinking about the story. Those who are listening.

26:06 You know, before this time period, Jacob was a was was not a very good guy anyway. He was a manipulator. Right before member he manipulated Esau for the birthright, for a bull of soup and he took advantage of him. So just sort of spring word off of that jump back into this. Sorry, yeah, okay. So, yeah, and so he learned from a Master Enabler, apparently, if he and he was enabler and a enabler himself. But anyway, so, so, so Rebecca's talking to Isaac, her husband, and says and and Isaac. She overhears Isaac Telling Esaw, go go get one of the wonderful animals that you hunt and and bring it back and make a savory, delicious meal and I'm going to give you your blessing. And Rebecca's conniving and thinking. Well, but I want, against selfish as opposed to a true act of love, I want my younger son, Jacob, yeah, to get the blessing. And so and so she tells, she tells Jacob, this is what I overheard your father say.

27:15 Now you go go hunt and get an animal and we're going to we're gonna actually trick your father, in so many words, we're going to trick your father into giving you the blessing instead. Yeah, and so, so Jacob apparently catches, I don't know, he haunts, he gets an animal and and Rebecca takes the hide of that animal, the fur of the Animal, puts it on Jacob's arms so he will be Harry like his brother Esau. Isaac, by the way, is nearly blind, or I think is blind at this point, so he can't see his son's and and Jacob goes to his father's bedside long before Esau has returned and with Rebecca's prompting tricks, his dad and his dad gives him the blessing that belongs to Esau. Yeah, and so, seemingly, Rebecca, she's trying to help her son.

28:06 I mean this is this is her favorite son, right and you know there's some things that you know, had been prophesied over Jacob, and so she wants to help this thing along. And of course, you know, Jacob it already gotten the birth right, at least the commitment, from Esau with for the bull of suit couple chaps previously. But she wanted to solidify this thing. She wanted to him what she thought would empower him to get the blessing. Really, she's became in an enabler of manipulation and sin. I mean, they lied, they that's breaking a commandment. He lead. She told him basically lie to your father. You know, that's not honoring your parents, which is one commandment, and it's and it's lying. Yeah, yeah, absolutely inkslor. You know, if you read on and Jacob Story, he gets it back tenfold later on, does he does? It leads to it least to then a life, I think. Ultimately, yes, I wants to kill him. He knows that. And Rebecca sends him away and I believe that's the last time she sees her son. Yeah, so the enablement which she thought was going to help her son leads to a permanent estrangement. Yeah, loss of her son in a sense. She never sees him again. And then there's just the friction between East Sound Jacob and his fears, yours whole life until, you know, in the end, I think that it that is resolved and actually taking care of miraculous through the through God's mercy. But the sins of the parents then are transmitted onto the children

29:38 and we see that in in in Jacobs continual yeah, so this is you know, maybe I think the struggle that we have as ministers of the Gospel and those who want to reach these these women and these families, is more subtle than this. You know, this is sort of blatant enabling sinful behavior, and the things, again, that we deal with are more subtle. But sometimes it takes extreme examples to help us to identify the subtleties in our lives. So just, you know, meditate on this, guys. Now one scripture that came to mind for me as you'd mentioned the subject and you've got it written down right there. But some John Chapter six. Yeah, this is Jesus being so wise and so awesome. Just love Jesus. I would not call Jesus and enabler at all at all. But but this does make the point about what about enablement versus versus? What is a true act of love? Yeah, makes that point really well. Yeah, he makes that point very well and he actually confronts the those who want to be enabled by him. This is in John Chapter six. I'll set the states for this. I don't read the Scriptures entirely, but John Chapter six, Jesus, there's five thousand people, or so I think it's five that this is the five thousand men that are following. And you know, he ultimately feeds the five thousands his disciples. You know, do you having bread? You get enough bread to feed these and anyway, so he knows the miracle he's going to perform. He multiply, multiplies bread and fish and the people are fed. And then Jesus, ultimately he's it says actually that they he knew

31:11 that they would seek to make him king, and so he slipped away on to the mountain and and he didn't want to be made king by them. Jesus is king, he's the king kings and ultimately he's the King of all the world anyway. But they follow him. Ultimately he goes across the the sea and and they follow him and he tells him this. He says most assuredly. I say to you, you seek me not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and we're filled. And he says, do not Labor for food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the son of Man will give you, because the father has set his seal on him. And so they want you there.

31:52 This is Jesus, I guess, temptation to enable people that there come after me. It's nothing for him to multiply some more bread and fish and feed them. And so here's this dynamic that we need to keep in our minds is that when we give someone something practical, because he's saying, you got this bread, and he gave it to him freely, gave him the bread and the fish, but the motivation was that they would labor, not for that bread, but for the bread that's that leads to eternal life, for the truth of God's word, and that's, you know, that's his motivation. He cuts off their their their willingness to sort of suck him dryt be like parasites and just seek him for the bread. Hey, hey, Jesus, we can stick you in our pocket and we can have any time we want. We can pull you out and you'll you'll perform a miracle.

32:35 You give us some bread's fish. The miracle that he performed in the in multiplication of bread and fish was designed to show them who he was, that he is the Messiah, the one who's come to give them true bread. Yeah, and not just to feed their bellies. Yeah, and so he cuts that thing off real quick, yeah, and tells them this, you need a labor for that bread that comes down from heaven, the truth. Yeah. So there's some really good principles in that, in that passage, and I think it was when he fed the four thousand. I'm not sure if it's in this when he feeds the five thousand, but the verse actually says he had compassion, yeah, on them. And and so the first you know thing is I think anyone in a pro life ministry is motivated by compassion. Yeah, that's a good motivation. Compassion for others and and show them God, yeah, but to show them compassion. And that's not there's nothing wrong with that. and Jesus is showing that. He does that, he has compassion on them, he feeds them, but he knows when to stop, unlike us, right he knows the point at which, okay, it will quickly shift from an act of compassion and meeting needs that they could not meet. And that was another principle that we'll talk about more in our second half. But this they could not meet the need of feeding themselves.

33:55 They were in a remote place, there was no food, there was five thousand of them. So they could not meet the need and and Jesus met the need that they could not meet in compassion. But then new. Now I'm going to take this act of compassion and point you to the act of all the the goal of all compassion, which is to show you me, yeah, me, I like really am, yeah, and who I can be to you. So, so, he he, that he then through in in that in that scripture. I think that kind of is a perfect place to just kind of pause and say that that's a good overview. Yeah, scripturally, of we I think we're all in agreement. We are called to give and we're called to give sacrificially. But Jesus now is beginning to tell us in that passage. Yes, you are, but there's a point at which you need to discern when you're crossing the line and the act of compassion is no longer drawing people to me but to you. Yeah, and that that is one of the most important points in this podcast, in this two part podcast, is they were to draw people to the Lord, not to us. You know, a lot of times, you know in Christian Ministry, you know we have to raise money and all that other stuff, and so we want these good, awesome stories about how wonderful we are because we've helped this person to help that person, and we need to share their

35:28 stories, no doubt about it, right. But if the focus is on US and drawing people to us, we make them, you know, beholding to us as far as or at least you know we're one of their enablers, where we're the thing that they come to whenever they need then we're missing the point, yere right. They need to learn to come to the Lord. They need to learn. You know, one of the things that we try to do is plug people into churches so that out of the church will flow the help in the resources, not out of some, you know, nonprofits, some peered church ministry, bout of the church, but even within the church. People and pastors are good at this, discerning what's empowering versus enabling. So, you know, I think with that, you know, will end this first part of we appreciate those who've listened to this first part.

36:13 Stay tuned for the second part because I think this will be important. In this next part will be not just scriptural. Will have some scripture, of course there, but it will be some practical points, yeah, kind of the how to get out to how to how to empower rather than enable. So stay tuned. Give me our love for love, give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my love. Nothing's too precious. And some you