Dealing With Other Prolife Groups

WEBVTT100:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.559I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours and me. Welcome200:00:06.599 --> 00:00:10.070to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. We are out on the sidewalk doing300:00:10.150 --> 00:00:13.509ministry at the local abortion center.There could be other pro life groups out400:00:13.550 --> 00:00:15.910there. There are, maybe notwith you. Some of those groups can500:00:15.910 --> 00:00:18.829be helpful, some of those groupscan be not so helpful. We're going600:00:18.870 --> 00:00:24.379to talk about how to deal withthat. Biblical stay tuned. I felt700:00:24.780 --> 00:00:37.090show passish, touch your heart,use me. Welcome to the Gospel Center800:00:37.170 --> 00:00:40.969pro life podcast. We're going tocontinue to do some training in this episode900:00:41.530 --> 00:00:46.530and I think this will be lesslike principles, well, be principles for1000:00:46.649 --> 00:00:51.600training, but less of like here'swhat you do, kind of like practical1100:00:51.719 --> 00:00:55.240stuff, more relational stuff, Iguess I can't. Yes, yes,1200:00:55.719 --> 00:01:00.359and really centered around relating to otherpro life groups and in particular, out1300:01:00.439 --> 00:01:04.109on the sidewalk. What we're talkingabout. That's typically the context which we're1400:01:04.150 --> 00:01:08.510speaking to, and so we're goingto talk about that. We're going to1500:01:08.549 --> 00:01:14.269talk about the fact that there's there'sa lot of abortion centers. Just say1600:01:14.349 --> 00:01:18.700right off bat that don't have aChristian witness there at all. I don't1700:01:18.700 --> 00:01:21.420no one out on the sidewalk.Yeah, all right. However, there1800:01:21.420 --> 00:01:23.379are a lot of abortion centers wherethere is some kind of Christian witness.1900:01:23.540 --> 00:01:26.579Maybe it's just people out there praying. Well, I see just people out2000:01:26.579 --> 00:01:29.859there praying, because it's some sportantthat people are there praying. But maybe2100:01:30.099 --> 00:01:33.849about there that are praying, maybethere's some other folks that are out there2200:01:33.969 --> 00:01:38.370reaching out in some capacity or whatever. Yeah, and you know in your2300:01:38.489 --> 00:01:41.930city, wherever you're listening from yourkind of brand new to this and you2400:01:42.010 --> 00:01:45.090showed up out there and it's like, how do you? How do you2500:01:45.209 --> 00:01:48.280relate to these other people? Becauseyou have a call from the Lord to2600:01:48.400 --> 00:01:52.480do ministry on the sidewalk. Youreally feel burden to do it. But2700:01:52.560 --> 00:01:56.799there's other groups out there that you'renot necessarily associated with. HMM, maybe2800:01:56.840 --> 00:02:00.319you don't feel called to be associatedwith them. And so how do you?2900:02:00.469 --> 00:02:04.150How do you deal with that?Maybe you've been out there for a3000:02:04.189 --> 00:02:07.830long time. This is this issomething that I've deal with being out there3100:02:07.830 --> 00:02:12.229for a long time, and newfolks come along, new groups come along,3200:02:12.310 --> 00:02:15.180individuals come along that are not necessarilypart of my group. How do3300:02:15.259 --> 00:02:19.340I deal with that? Right,how do we view that? Situation,3400:02:20.099 --> 00:02:23.539and I can just say from frommy perspective there's times when people have come3500:02:23.580 --> 00:02:28.020out that are not necessarily, again, part of our group that rub me3600:02:28.060 --> 00:02:30.490the wrong way. Yeah, Idon't really want being out there. Yeah,3700:02:31.009 --> 00:02:35.009and are even, in your opinion, do damage sometimes, Mary be3800:02:35.289 --> 00:02:38.169yeah, and you know, oneof the things that I'll say, though,3900:02:38.330 --> 00:02:40.729is if folks do come along andit's just that I don't want them4000:02:40.770 --> 00:02:44.560out there, I got to checkmy own heart, that's for sure.4100:02:44.879 --> 00:02:52.960Yeah, because people that are notnecessarily part of my group or whatever can4200:02:53.120 --> 00:02:55.800still be called to be on thesidewalk. Right, just because I have4300:02:57.080 --> 00:03:01.310a particular way of doing things andI'm part of love life and someone else4400:03:01.310 --> 00:03:05.949that comes along as not a partof love life doesn't necessarily mean that they're4500:03:06.069 --> 00:03:08.069they're wrong and they shouldn't be outthere. Right. Yeah, they have4600:03:08.110 --> 00:03:10.789a word right first day. Haveevery right to be out there. Yeah,4700:03:12.189 --> 00:03:14.860and that's kind of one of ourfirst principles here. You got to4800:03:14.900 --> 00:03:17.659learn, yeah, that sidewalk doesn'tbelong to you. Yeah, much as4900:03:17.699 --> 00:03:22.419you want it to. Yeah,at times all faded, man, I'd5000:03:22.460 --> 00:03:24.219love to just take ownership of itand say you can't be here you can5100:03:24.379 --> 00:03:28.770be here you can't, but we'dbe destroying our own right to be there5200:03:28.889 --> 00:03:32.050if we if we had that attitude, then we are saying my First Amendment5300:03:32.129 --> 00:03:37.449right counts, yours doesn't. Yeah, yeah, my call is important,5400:03:37.490 --> 00:03:39.569but yours is not right. Right. I think we have to acknowledge first5500:03:39.569 --> 00:03:46.120and foremost that public property. Now, of course, if, like we5600:03:46.240 --> 00:03:49.759do own property next door to theabortion center. Hey, here on the5700:03:49.840 --> 00:03:54.080trobe drive, and we can saycertain people can't be on there, certain5800:03:54.120 --> 00:03:58.990people can. We don't really,I mean we don't let the pro board5900:03:59.150 --> 00:04:02.990people on there, but we kindof divving out what believers can be there.6000:04:03.069 --> 00:04:06.310What you know, probably life peoplecan be there, unless you know6100:04:06.389 --> 00:04:10.180they get that a line. Stufflike that. We can. But reality6200:04:10.259 --> 00:04:13.259is and we're at the abortion center, we're on the public sidewalk in front6300:04:13.259 --> 00:04:15.339of the abortion center. It doesn'tbelong to us, all right, it6400:04:15.459 --> 00:04:20.980is public property. Yeah, althoughI will say I would encourage you guys,6500:04:23.819 --> 00:04:26.689if you believe really that the Lordis called you to this ministry,6600:04:27.250 --> 00:04:32.449that you need to take ownership ofthat sidewalk in the sense that it's not6700:04:32.730 --> 00:04:38.089just who cares who's here. Weshould be concerned about WHO's there. If6800:04:38.089 --> 00:04:42.879they're people there that are dishonoring theLord, doing things that dishonored Jesus,6900:04:43.800 --> 00:04:45.959then I think we need to havea concern, but at the end of7000:04:45.959 --> 00:04:48.319the day we can't run them off. That's but I do think that we7100:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.360can take authority over the atmosphere.Yeah, and so I'll give you an7200:04:51.360 --> 00:04:57.269example what I'm talking about. Oneof our brothers in southern California who reaches7300:04:57.310 --> 00:05:00.230out of the Plant parenthood there hasbeen reaching out for a couple of months.7400:05:00.269 --> 00:05:04.550There's been a group there, Ithink for a couple of years,7500:05:04.550 --> 00:05:08.740smaller group, but it's growing andit's growing and God's doing some amazing things7600:05:08.779 --> 00:05:13.860there, and so they're they're consistentlyreaching out. And then this group couple7700:05:13.899 --> 00:05:16.980of months ago showed up and theywere kind of like, I don't know,7800:05:17.420 --> 00:05:19.899I almost like Westboro Baptist Church people. Don't know if you know what7900:05:19.939 --> 00:05:26.129they I know that that there's someissues with maybe them being a little condemning,8000:05:26.970 --> 00:05:30.769not just that they were actually comingagainst the sidewalk. So it was8100:05:30.970 --> 00:05:33.290wasn't just that they were being,you know, overly condemning or judge or8200:05:33.329 --> 00:05:36.639whatever the people going into the abortioncenter. I mean they were calling them8300:05:36.680 --> 00:05:40.720hors and things like that. Okay, well, so that's not good,8400:05:41.319 --> 00:05:45.680but even more, yeah, exactly, but even toward the the Christians that8500:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.519were right there. Yes, theywere telling them that they're ungodly because they're8600:05:48.519 --> 00:05:51.509not calling the women horrors and allthis other stuff right in front of it,8700:05:51.629 --> 00:05:55.629in front of the up portion center. So they're doing it publicly.8800:05:56.029 --> 00:06:00.430Exactly. So this is that.That's problem, right, it is a8900:06:00.509 --> 00:06:02.350problem. Yeah, and then that'scoming from from two angles. You know,9000:06:02.389 --> 00:06:05.019if you're out there on the sidewalkand you know you have the women9100:06:05.100 --> 00:06:08.620going in that you're trying to allfor help and hope, and they're cussing9200:06:08.660 --> 00:06:12.740at you, and then you gotthese so called Christians, whatever they were,9300:06:12.860 --> 00:06:15.860some kind of church. Are QuotesChurch right, right, and they're9400:06:15.860 --> 00:06:17.889yelling at you too. It's like, man, you getting hit for all9500:06:17.930 --> 00:06:20.970kinds of angles. That's pretty rough. Yeah, do with exactly, and9600:06:21.050 --> 00:06:25.209that's that's why we're doing this podcast, because it that's actually that might be9700:06:25.329 --> 00:06:29.569a bit of an extreme, butit's not unusual. There are, there9800:06:29.610 --> 00:06:32.439are just always there is going tobe tensioned. It's already a high tension9900:06:32.480 --> 00:06:36.800place. Yeah, but when youget different, I think that the scripture.10000:06:36.800 --> 00:06:40.560I keep think of the scripture wheretwo or more are gathered in my10100:06:40.720 --> 00:06:44.480name. Here's Jesus a month there'sJesus among you. There Jesus is among10200:06:44.519 --> 00:06:47.310us, and the fact that Godeven needs to say that makes you wonder.10300:06:47.550 --> 00:06:51.189Okay, so we're two or threeare gathered, just two or three.10400:06:51.509 --> 00:06:55.949That's all that is mentioned. Twoor three gathered. It does make10500:06:56.029 --> 00:07:02.620you wonder. Is Our society?Is Humanity just contentious and and we when10600:07:02.660 --> 00:07:09.339we get together, we're often inconflict. It can togree way. Yeah,10700:07:09.420 --> 00:07:12.540you know, it's hard find twoor three that do agree about anything.10800:07:12.819 --> 00:07:17.290Cambi. Yeah, so in thatparticular situation again, even though these10900:07:17.449 --> 00:07:21.329people were not helpful any level.Now, yeah, I do not come11000:07:21.370 --> 00:07:26.250across, or try to come acrossat all when a new group comes out11100:07:26.290 --> 00:07:29.610or somebody that comes out that's notdoing what I'm doing, as somehow I11200:07:29.689 --> 00:07:31.079got all the answers, I gotit all figured out and their way is11300:07:31.199 --> 00:07:33.720wrong. Right, even people comeout. I mean I think we have11400:07:33.920 --> 00:07:40.160a really good balance between grace andtruth. We don't compromise the fact that11500:07:40.240 --> 00:07:43.199abortion is murder. It is murder, but we're not out there yelling at11600:07:43.199 --> 00:07:45.990the women you're a murder and stufflike that, or a whore or a11700:07:46.069 --> 00:07:48.750or anything like that. So we'renot we're not fluffing up the Gospel.11800:07:48.990 --> 00:07:56.790Right, we're not minimizing the sinof abortion, but we're also approachable,11900:07:57.470 --> 00:08:01.540we're kind, we are purposely gentlein our approach and that sort of thing.12000:08:01.660 --> 00:08:03.939Right. So I think we havea good balance. But I do12100:08:05.100 --> 00:08:07.139know that other people come out thereare a little maybe softer than we are.12200:08:07.779 --> 00:08:11.300And okay, if that's what Godhas called him to do, as12300:08:11.300 --> 00:08:13.850long as they're not compromising the Gospeland they're not telling people abortions. You12400:08:13.970 --> 00:08:16.370know, okay if you want todo that, but not okay, if12500:08:16.410 --> 00:08:20.769you don't know if they're they're justnot justifined abortion and they're in the vein12600:08:20.810 --> 00:08:24.370of scripture, okay. Then ifthey're a little harsher than I would be,12700:08:26.009 --> 00:08:28.399then okay. I mean that's whatGod's called them to do. So12800:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.120I'm not one to just show upand be on the sidewalk and say,12900:08:31.159 --> 00:08:33.480well, they're wrong, they're wrong, and I'm right. Yeah, but13000:08:33.559 --> 00:08:37.960there are times when people just goway over the top. Yeah, and13100:08:37.639 --> 00:08:41.710you want to distance yourselves from thosepeople. I think that's important that we13200:08:41.830 --> 00:08:46.070do at some point. But atthe end of the day, as much13300:08:46.110 --> 00:08:48.870as you want to distance yourself fromanother group like the group that I mentioned13400:08:48.909 --> 00:08:54.029there in southern California, you you, you literally can't run them off.13500:08:54.029 --> 00:08:56.019Unless they're assaulting you or something,you can call the police. And so13600:08:56.220 --> 00:09:01.659what I encourage our brother there todo this is kind of like maybe a13700:09:01.740 --> 00:09:05.379little a little free be here.It's not something that we in our trainings13800:09:05.500 --> 00:09:09.620really teach, but I think it'ssomething that the Lord use, certainly in13900:09:09.700 --> 00:09:11.450that situation. I said, youknow what, brother, if these people14000:09:11.490 --> 00:09:16.250want do what they're supposed to do, if they want stop being a hindrance14100:09:16.289 --> 00:09:18.690to what you're doing, what youneed to do is just take authority over14200:09:18.730 --> 00:09:24.840the atmosphere, set up a speaker, pray worship music, play worship music14300:09:24.919 --> 00:09:28.480on that speaker and take authority ofthe atmosphere. HMM, it belongs to14400:09:28.559 --> 00:09:33.159you because you belong to Jesus,and people that are coming along that are14500:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.629bringing problems and a hindrance to thatGod can run them off. You just14600:09:37.750 --> 00:09:41.350take authority of the atmosphere. Thereyou got a speaker. At the end14700:09:41.350 --> 00:09:43.710of the day, you can belouder than them if you got a speaker14800:09:43.789 --> 00:09:48.750to but also if they're being demons, let's worship Jesus and he'll drive the14900:09:48.830 --> 00:09:54.940demons away. So that's that's alittle kind of extra to what we normally15000:09:54.980 --> 00:09:58.620teach. But I think the Lordcertainly in an when that situation it won't15100:09:58.659 --> 00:10:01.980work. So my first thought was, well, could they have gone and15200:10:01.340 --> 00:10:05.139gotten their louder speaker? It couldhave, okay, but they didn't.15300:10:05.259 --> 00:10:09.210They didn't not yet know they left. Cannot. Yeah, and the back15400:10:09.289 --> 00:10:11.570for several weeks. So that's good. Yeah, that's good. So so15500:10:11.730 --> 00:10:16.049you've made the case. Yes,indeed, there is going to be conflict,15600:10:16.090 --> 00:10:22.840even with very well meaning Harry sincereprolit and all on the same page15700:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.600in terms of pro life. Theymay not necessarily be Christian. There are15800:10:26.879 --> 00:10:28.759some, not many, but thereare some pro life groups that are not15900:10:30.039 --> 00:10:33.240Christians. She'll just they just believethat that baby is worthy of protect yeah,16000:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.990like secular human rights. Right,people would apply abortion to secular humorize.16100:10:39.029 --> 00:10:43.230Yeah, I haven't encountered that reallyon the sidewalk. Maybe it's like16200:10:43.389 --> 00:10:46.269that in some other areas or something. Mostly I think what we encounter,16300:10:46.789 --> 00:10:50.980what I've encountered, is just individuals, the kind of have their own agenda16400:10:50.980 --> 00:10:54.179as far as people that cause problems. Right, thing, right, but16500:10:56.379 --> 00:11:01.419kind of in the vein of talkingabout kind of the differences in the different16600:11:01.500 --> 00:11:05.850ministries that can happen at an abortioncenter. MMM, as I prayed about16700:11:05.850 --> 00:11:09.929this and thought about this over theyears and my experience, I really kind16800:11:09.929 --> 00:11:15.450of come to believe that this isagain in the vein of what's helpful out16900:11:15.450 --> 00:11:16.970there. There's some things that happenthat are not helpful, right, the17000:11:18.090 --> 00:11:20.480people that you know again, they'rescreaming ridiculous things and all of that.17100:11:22.519 --> 00:11:26.120But of what I've seen that that'shelpful. That I think honors the Lord.17200:11:26.879 --> 00:11:31.960There's kind of two veins of people, of groups that are out here,17300:11:31.120 --> 00:11:33.110right, and so this is theway I view it. I could17400:11:33.110 --> 00:11:37.389be wrong about this, but Ithink I'm correct. I think this is17500:11:37.509 --> 00:11:39.909a way to look at it.And those two groups that I see is17600:11:39.990 --> 00:11:45.350you have the prophetic group, andthe term could be something different, but17700:11:45.549 --> 00:11:48.659I think prophetic maybe along the linesof like street preachers, that sort of17800:11:48.740 --> 00:11:52.620thing. Yeah, it's by theway, I am a street preacher kind17900:11:52.659 --> 00:11:58.659of in my early walk with theLord did some street preaching, a lot18000:11:58.700 --> 00:12:01.970of street preaching. I love doingthat. Don't disparage that. Praise God.18100:12:01.009 --> 00:12:05.009God does that. Jesus was astreet preacher. So it was John18200:12:05.009 --> 00:12:07.129The baptist. Many of the menthat we look at in the history of18300:12:07.129 --> 00:12:11.690the Church Street preachers, the Wesley'sand George Whitfield, those guests. So18400:12:13.769 --> 00:12:16.039I'm thinking a lot of that vanprophetic just because I know, when I'm18500:12:16.159 --> 00:12:20.080a brand new Christian, I reallydidn't understand what I do know now what18600:12:20.240 --> 00:12:22.720you mean by that. But whatdo you mean by that? When would18700:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.879define it? What I don't meanby that is somebody that's, you know,18800:12:26.440 --> 00:12:30.350for telling the future. But well, think about prophetic. Is that's18900:12:30.389 --> 00:12:31.789what I got? Prophecy? Yes, it's not what I mean. Yeah,19000:12:31.870 --> 00:12:35.990what I do mean is someone that'sjust there, to the way I19100:12:37.110 --> 00:12:39.870say it, to deliver God's mail. Okay's what the Prophet does. He19200:12:39.990 --> 00:12:43.419delivers the mail. Yeah, he'sgot a job to do and that's just19300:12:43.659 --> 00:12:48.019to come and deliver the mail andhe could care less. He'll take the19400:12:48.139 --> 00:12:50.899mail, this is an analogy,of course, and dump it on your19500:12:50.940 --> 00:12:56.220doorstep and leave and whether you openthe mail or not, it's not his19600:12:56.700 --> 00:13:01.129not his interest, right. Hisinterest is to deliver God's Mail and you19700:13:01.289 --> 00:13:03.169do with it, right, andthat's the prophetic that's kind of like they19800:13:03.289 --> 00:13:07.250just show up and they just dotheir thing and they just broadcast the truth.19900:13:07.850 --> 00:13:13.120And this can, I'm not talkingnecessarily like aggressive or anything like that.20000:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.080Can be a little maybe viewed aslittle more aggressive than maybe we would20100:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.440want to be, but they're justthere to deliver the truth. Yeah,20200:13:20.600 --> 00:13:22.080I would. I would add,and maybe I'm wrong about this, that20300:13:22.360 --> 00:13:28.950oftentimes that truth is convicting truth.It's often times not the easier truths,20400:13:28.070 --> 00:13:31.429like God loves you so much.It's sometimes God loves you so much that20500:13:31.549 --> 00:13:35.830he expects you to do what heyes said. It's for you to what20600:13:35.990 --> 00:13:37.470you want. You to repent asright, don't burn in Hell, right.20700:13:37.509 --> 00:13:41.779Right. I mean. So it'sit's often, it is often probably20800:13:41.820 --> 00:13:46.500a strong message because it's a convictingyeah, message. I would say it's20900:13:46.539 --> 00:13:54.580confrontational. Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's it's purposefully confrontation. Right now,21000:13:54.620 --> 00:13:58.610I'll say anytime light shows up todarkness, right, it's confrontational.21100:13:58.769 --> 00:14:05.330So no matter how nice you are, how non confrontational you are. If21200:14:05.370 --> 00:14:09.960you come to an abortion center asa believer in Jesus, you're in confrontation,21300:14:11.000 --> 00:14:16.000yes, but you're not purposely inconfrontation. I will say those who21400:14:16.039 --> 00:14:20.919come in this kind of prophetic veinare coming with purposely to be confrontational.21500:14:22.120 --> 00:14:26.389They want to confront evil with thetruth. And again they're just there to21600:14:26.509 --> 00:14:30.629deliver the mail and not really interestedit in. But I would say they're21700:14:30.629 --> 00:14:33.389not interesting in that they don't care. They certainly do want people to come21800:14:33.429 --> 00:14:35.629to know the Lord. Yeah,least the people I know. They're in21900:14:35.710 --> 00:14:39.419this vein. Yeah, but they'renot helping you open the mail. They're22000:14:39.460 --> 00:14:43.139not. They're not helping you readit and figure out what's inside of it.22100:14:43.220 --> 00:14:46.179They're just there to deliver the mailand listen. I Have God honors22200:14:46.220 --> 00:14:50.379that I have seen again, forlack of a better term, the street22300:14:50.419 --> 00:14:56.250preacher types show up preach, notthey're not doing sidewall counseling, they're not22400:14:56.330 --> 00:15:00.450doing you know really. I meanthey might be handered out literature something like22500:15:00.529 --> 00:15:03.529that, but for the most partthey're just preaching and God uses that and22600:15:03.649 --> 00:15:09.799babies have been saved. I've hadpeople contact me that knew of a mom22700:15:09.320 --> 00:15:13.360that chose life for her baby becausesomeone was out on a speaker just preaching.22800:15:13.720 --> 00:15:18.639Yeah, yeah, and that momfell under conviction and chose life for22900:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.909her baby. That I'm sure that'shappened thousands of times. Right. It23000:15:22.110 --> 00:15:26.429was a street preacher who convicted theperson who led me to the Lord.23100:15:28.590 --> 00:15:31.350That was how he came to theLord. So, yeah, they're they23200:15:31.990 --> 00:15:37.700they often do have great results.Yeah, I don't know often, but23300:15:37.899 --> 00:15:41.299they but, like I said,it's not the results that thereafter, it's23400:15:41.379 --> 00:15:46.940the convicting message that they are compelledlike Jeremiah. Yeah, that I think23500:15:46.980 --> 00:15:50.610of. Jeremiah was, you knowthat he was rejected. The people didn't23600:15:50.610 --> 00:15:54.809even listen. He saw no throughfruit for his entire Ministry of Ward Years,23700:15:54.210 --> 00:16:00.370but he faithfully delivered the mail.He faithfully preached God's very kind of23800:16:00.450 --> 00:16:06.039harsh message to a very rebellious people. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so23900:16:06.159 --> 00:16:07.879that's that's one of the groups,yeah, that we see out at this24000:16:08.080 --> 00:16:11.360and and I've seen him too,and we have them, we have them24100:16:11.440 --> 00:16:15.279locally. Yeah, and again Iwant to try to impart to you guys24200:16:15.320 --> 00:16:19.190that are listening, a heart thatI think is is the heart of God,24300:16:21.389 --> 00:16:26.750which is that even though people aren'tdoing and saying exactly what we're doing24400:16:26.870 --> 00:16:32.389and saying doesn't necessarily mean that they'rewrong. We need to view things from24500:16:32.389 --> 00:16:36.820a scriptural perspective, because one ofthe things that can happen if you're kind24600:16:36.860 --> 00:16:37.700of in the vein that we are, which I'm going to touch on in24700:16:37.820 --> 00:16:41.139just a minute, which is,I think, more evangelistic. Now,24800:16:41.220 --> 00:16:45.220I don't mean to imply that theprophetic type doesn't evangelize. They do,24900:16:45.820 --> 00:16:48.730but if we're in along this veindo inside of all counseling, and someone25000:16:48.809 --> 00:16:52.450comes along the street, preacher typeand they're preaching, we can immediately get25100:16:52.490 --> 00:16:56.769offended and want to try to justget rid of them and get them away25200:16:56.809 --> 00:16:59.649from us. We don't want tobe associated with that. And if we're25300:16:59.730 --> 00:17:03.720honest about that and we're honest aboutwhy we don't want to be associated with25400:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.000that, and we look at theScripture and see that, okay, Jesus25500:17:07.119 --> 00:17:14.279confronted pretty forthrightly Jesus John The baptist, I mean Jesus said of men born25600:17:14.319 --> 00:17:15.710of men, there's no one greaterthan this guy, John the Baptist,25700:17:15.750 --> 00:17:22.950and that guy certainly preached a propheticmessage of repentance. Right. A lot25800:17:22.990 --> 00:17:30.539of times our American Christian sensitivities areoffended rather than then the Lord. Right.25900:17:30.700 --> 00:17:33.339So if we're going to be offendedat something, we need to be26000:17:33.420 --> 00:17:36.339offended along the lines of the scripture, not along the lines of our Christian26100:17:36.380 --> 00:17:38.380sensitivities. And if we're honest,we don't want to be associated with that26200:17:38.940 --> 00:17:42.019because we don't want the world tolook at US bad right, we don't26300:17:42.019 --> 00:17:45.849want the world to look at usas judge or condemn me or whatever.26400:17:45.210 --> 00:17:49.369Yeah, and so in reality we'remore concerned about the way that we look26500:17:51.130 --> 00:17:52.930then what the Bible said. Yeah, so boils down to a pride issue.26600:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.569Yeah, it, man, itreally is. Yeah. Now,26700:17:56.609 --> 00:18:03.279all of that to say that thereare street preacher types that show up and26800:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.759that, just like I described,are not honoring the Lord, and we26900:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.200certainly don't want to be associated withthat kind of garbage. We're the other27000:18:11.400 --> 00:18:17.990calling women horrors and there whatever,the other overthetop. Just you look at27100:18:17.990 --> 00:18:19.430it and you know this is carnal, this comes from the flesh. This27200:18:19.549 --> 00:18:22.589is not no motivated by the spiritof God, this is not just people27300:18:22.710 --> 00:18:29.140trying to confront evil. This ispeople trying to probably confront the only evil27400:18:29.180 --> 00:18:32.019they fill in their own heart.So they judge and condemn other people's because27500:18:32.019 --> 00:18:33.660that's the same stuff they got goingon in their own lives. Could be.27600:18:34.500 --> 00:18:38.579So I just say that we needto look at what the Bible says,27700:18:38.779 --> 00:18:42.170look at how the Scripture addresses thesethings, look at how look at27800:18:42.210 --> 00:18:48.450the examples we have in scripture andjudge based on that. Right. So,27900:18:48.609 --> 00:18:52.930just because someone's a little harsher ora little softer than we are doesn't28000:18:52.970 --> 00:18:56.359necessarily mean that they're wrong. Yeah, they're doing what the best they can28100:18:56.440 --> 00:19:02.000with the information they have to serveGod. Same thing. We're doing best28200:19:02.039 --> 00:19:04.480we can with the information we haveto serve God and honor and obey Him.28300:19:04.480 --> 00:19:07.319Yeah, one of the things Ithought of while I was thinking about28400:19:07.359 --> 00:19:14.230this topic was that bad. Ibelieve I am called by God to be28500:19:14.390 --> 00:19:18.789there, but it's not like Godis surprised that all these other people are28600:19:18.829 --> 00:19:25.099there that maybe have very different approachesthan I do. He could remove them28700:19:25.180 --> 00:19:30.259if he wanted to, and ifhe hasn't, perhaps there's a god ordained28800:19:30.579 --> 00:19:33.980reason that they're there that I maynot know. Yeah, I may never28900:19:34.099 --> 00:19:38.970know. So, yeah, Ido think examining your own heart, as29000:19:40.210 --> 00:19:42.369as you look at these other groupsout there, is really one of the29100:19:42.569 --> 00:19:47.009first things you need to do ifyou're feeling anger or I just want to29200:19:47.049 --> 00:19:51.170get rid of them. Really lookdeep inside yourself first. Yeah, and29300:19:51.529 --> 00:19:53.160bringing it before the Lord, right, or something up with my heart,29400:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.519yeah, rather than just well,they're not doing I'm doing so therefore they're29500:19:56.519 --> 00:20:00.160wrong. I leave right. So, but you so. You started with29600:20:00.279 --> 00:20:06.880there's the prophetic voice and that wemight find that more grading on our nerves29700:20:07.230 --> 00:20:11.950because we tend to, locally atleast, train our people with what you29800:20:12.190 --> 00:20:15.710describe as a more evangelistic voice.So what do you what do you mean29900:20:15.750 --> 00:20:18.269by that? And what I meanby that again, is not that the30000:20:18.349 --> 00:20:22.900prophetic folks aren't bringing the Gospel andnot aren't evangelizing. They all right,30100:20:22.940 --> 00:20:27.099right. What I really mean bythat is I look at the Prophet,30200:20:27.579 --> 00:20:32.579I look at John the Baptist asfar as the prophetic, and look as30300:20:32.700 --> 00:20:37.490evangelistic. I'll look at Philip theevangelist, okay, and Philip the evangelists,30400:20:38.009 --> 00:20:45.410and this is in acts and lives, acts Chapter Eight, okay,30500:20:45.210 --> 00:20:49.839and Philip the evangelist is he's got, has used him in some area and30600:20:51.039 --> 00:20:56.680the Gospel's preached there. And thenat one point he's a this is in30700:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.960it's round. Acts Chapter Eight,Verse Twenty Six, and says the angel30800:21:00.960 --> 00:21:03.390of the Lord spoke to Philip,saying arise and go towards the South along30900:21:03.470 --> 00:21:08.950the road which goes up from Jerusalemto Gaza. This is desert, so31000:21:10.150 --> 00:21:11.789he's in a desert area. Sohe rose and went and behold a man31100:21:11.910 --> 00:21:15.349of Ethiopia. This is verse twentyseven. And Acts Chapter Eight. A31200:21:15.470 --> 00:21:21.259Eunuch of great authority under candice,the Queen of the Ethiopians, who had31300:21:21.380 --> 00:21:25.099charge of all her treasury, hadcome up to Jerusalem to worship. And31400:21:25.220 --> 00:21:29.380so I'll sum of the story.He's traveling in his chariot and he had31500:21:29.420 --> 00:21:33.369gone to Jerusalem. He was headedback, apparently to Ethiopia, where he31600:21:33.690 --> 00:21:38.450was headed to Jerusalem anyway, andPhilip, prompted by the Holy Spirit,31700:21:38.569 --> 00:21:45.730goes alongside his chariot and finds thathe's reading the scroll of Isaiah and he's31800:21:45.769 --> 00:21:48.359reading he was a he was ledas a sheep to the slaughter, as31900:21:48.400 --> 00:21:52.759a lamb before it shears. IsSilent. This is in acts, Chapter32000:21:52.839 --> 00:21:57.160Eight, verse Thirty Two. Sohe opened on his mouth. He was32100:21:57.240 --> 00:22:03.069in humiliation. In his humiliation,his justice was taken away. And who32200:22:03.069 --> 00:22:07.430will declare his generation, for hislife was taken from the earth. And32300:22:07.589 --> 00:22:14.190so this is what this Ethiopian unitwas reading. Philip ask him, Hey,32400:22:14.309 --> 00:22:17.220man, you know what you're reading? I'm paraphrasing. He's like,32500:22:17.339 --> 00:22:19.539how can I know unless somebody,lest somebody tells me. And so Philip32600:22:19.579 --> 00:22:23.619kind of jumps up in the chariotwith him and shares with him really what32700:22:23.779 --> 00:22:30.089God saying and talks about Jesus andshares with him this scripture that you're reading.32800:22:30.289 --> 00:22:33.329Is Talking about the Messiah, istalking about Jesus. And so what32900:22:33.369 --> 00:22:36.170does he doing there? Again,like John The baptist, he's just delivering33000:22:36.210 --> 00:22:38.569the mail. He dumps on yourdoorstep. You if you open it.33100:22:38.650 --> 00:22:42.250That's between you and God. Philipthe evangelist, he's actually hopping up in33200:22:42.289 --> 00:22:45.720the chariot with the Ethiopen, helpinghim open the mail, showing him,33300:22:45.920 --> 00:22:51.000after he opens the mail, howto read the mail and then explaining what33400:22:51.079 --> 00:22:53.359he's reading. Right there. Herelational. Listen, he he's Relat some33500:22:53.640 --> 00:23:00.269sits next to him. He andask questions, looks for the opportunity,33600:23:00.829 --> 00:23:06.869find seeses upon the opportunity, thenbuilds this relationship and is willing to get33700:23:06.950 --> 00:23:11.509in the chariot with him and sharetruth. Yeah. Yeah, and ultimately33800:23:11.549 --> 00:23:15.019he baptizes the guy. Yeah,and with the guy comes to the Lord33900:23:15.019 --> 00:23:19.819and he baptizes him. So kindof what convey what I want to convey34000:23:19.859 --> 00:23:26.250in those two things, is thatrelational nature that the the evangelist or I'd34100:23:26.250 --> 00:23:30.369say in this analogy, the sidewalkcounselor, is helping them open the mails.34200:23:30.450 --> 00:23:33.730Want to have a conversation, yeah, with that mom that's going into34300:23:33.730 --> 00:23:38.130the abortion center and breakdown the information? Yeah, and it might be.34400:23:38.410 --> 00:23:44.359I mean I've seen these situations reallyplay out where you've got the prophetic voice,34500:23:44.519 --> 00:23:48.359maybe on the microphone or from thesidewalk or whatever, is heralding the34600:23:48.440 --> 00:23:52.839message, and then you've got asidewall counselor over there and the woman,34700:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.069maybe she doesn't want to go andtalk to the guy who's on the microphone34800:23:56.150 --> 00:23:59.029whatever, but comes over and talksto the sidewalk counselor. And I've been34900:23:59.069 --> 00:24:02.230able personally to spring board off.Do you know why he's saying what he's35000:24:02.230 --> 00:24:03.950saying. Yeah, I don't needto disparage that guy and say I'm not35100:24:04.029 --> 00:24:07.269with that guy. He's a littletoo loud and talk to me because I'm35200:24:07.269 --> 00:24:10.500nice and sweet. I need todisparage that guy. Yeah, all I35300:24:10.579 --> 00:24:11.700need to do is say, Hey, do you hear what the Guy Saying?35400:24:12.220 --> 00:24:15.779Exactly? So it's a want toknow why he's talking. Yet.35500:24:15.859 --> 00:24:19.700So it says a great relationship betweenthese two different forces at on the sidewalk35600:24:19.980 --> 00:24:26.009in that example you gave me,because really one is convicting a heart.35700:24:26.049 --> 00:24:30.490We Know God is convicting Buddy.He's using that prophetic voice to convict that35800:24:30.609 --> 00:24:34.890woman's heart, and then the womanis drawn to actually speak with and and35900:24:36.410 --> 00:24:41.920dive a little further into the optionof life with the more, yeah,36000:24:42.000 --> 00:24:48.319softer evangelistic approach and the relational approach. Absolutely, and that's a beautiful way36100:24:48.359 --> 00:24:49.599to look at it, because Ithink you had mentioned that you had a36200:24:49.680 --> 00:24:56.950scripture though, that that talks abouthow we can work together in and be36300:24:57.470 --> 00:25:03.309being agreement and billion of course,this is along the lines of those who36400:25:03.309 --> 00:25:07.500actually belonged to g Jesus. Definitelybe a problem. Definitely there's if you're36500:25:07.500 --> 00:25:08.900dealing with people. They are notborn a God. That's right, and36600:25:08.940 --> 00:25:14.900there's contingent around even the Gospel,which which you will also you will face36700:25:15.019 --> 00:25:18.099that and we actually talk about thata little bit later on in and hopefully36800:25:18.140 --> 00:25:21.059what we get to. But yeah, from time to time you may face36900:25:21.180 --> 00:25:22.410that. But yeah, if you'vegot these two ministries going on, they37000:25:22.450 --> 00:25:26.930can work hand in hand together,the Prophetic and the evangelistic ministry. There's37100:25:26.970 --> 00:25:30.369just has to be an understanding ofkind of each other's roles and has to37200:25:30.410 --> 00:25:33.410be in that has to be amutual respect for each other. There does,37300:25:33.490 --> 00:25:37.200and I really like how you laidout those two groups, because what37400:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.079what I was even thinking while youwere talking was how even I, who37500:25:41.160 --> 00:25:45.640have been out there a long time, do tend to get a little territorial37600:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.640when a different voice comes out there. But what you just laid out was37700:25:48.680 --> 00:25:55.390an understanding of the intent behind thosetwo different voices, and that alone gives37800:25:55.589 --> 00:25:59.829more understanding so that I'm more ableto then say, oh well, I37900:25:59.950 --> 00:26:03.309kind of get where they're going andwhy they're doing that. It makes it,38000:26:03.109 --> 00:26:07.700I don't know, easier for meto accept that they should be out38100:26:07.700 --> 00:26:10.019there. Yeah, that's okay thatthey're out there. One of the things38200:26:10.059 --> 00:26:14.460I say in our trainings is we'retalking about relating to other prolife groups and38300:26:14.539 --> 00:26:17.579other people of out there. IsYou can honor people's efforts without agreeing with38400:26:17.660 --> 00:26:21.569their methods. Yeah, and listen, there's all kinds of methods to do38500:26:21.769 --> 00:26:23.769all kinds of things. You TalkAbout Sharing The Gospel, for example.38600:26:23.890 --> 00:26:27.009Yeah, I think there's a good, solid, Biblical method of sharing the38700:26:27.049 --> 00:26:30.089Gospel. I think Red Comfort's message. I think it's that. Yeah,38800:26:30.250 --> 00:26:33.599that's why we use right, right, but there's other methods like the Romans38900:26:33.640 --> 00:26:40.240Road and excellence in evangelism and otherthings that are out there that God uses39000:26:40.559 --> 00:26:42.960to to bring people to him.Yeah, I'm not going to disparage those39100:26:44.000 --> 00:26:47.039methods. I may not use thosemethods, I may have some issues with39200:26:47.119 --> 00:26:52.029those methods, but at the endof the day I'm just like Paul.39300:26:52.190 --> 00:26:55.869I think it was in Philippians wherePaul says I'm rejoicing even if people share39400:26:55.910 --> 00:27:00.069the Gospel, to try to disparagewhat I'm doing. Hey, I'm just39500:27:00.190 --> 00:27:03.900happy the gospels being shared. Weneed to have an attitude of we're happy39600:27:03.900 --> 00:27:07.099the people are out there and ifwe don't like their methods, necessarily.39700:27:07.140 --> 00:27:10.579Yeah, doesn't necessarily mean their methodsare wrong because you don't like them,39800:27:10.660 --> 00:27:14.140right, but you can still honortheir efforts. List and I know people39900:27:14.140 --> 00:27:17.529who I would. I would notbe doing things like they're doing them right,40000:27:18.569 --> 00:27:22.569but they're committed and maybe some someof them should be committed to a40100:27:22.650 --> 00:27:26.529local institution, but I still Imean there's a guy, and I think40200:27:26.569 --> 00:27:29.930we've mentioned them on the podcast,who used to come out here to Charlotte40300:27:30.319 --> 00:27:32.440who, you know, I wouldI would tell people, I mean this40400:27:32.559 --> 00:27:34.559guy was committed. He would bethere the first guy and then wanting to40500:27:34.559 --> 00:27:40.880be there and faithfully there, rain, sleet, Snow, hell, he's40600:27:40.920 --> 00:27:45.430there right now. He didn't necessarilygive the greatest message. He was pretty40700:27:45.470 --> 00:27:48.630pretty rotten to the people going in, sometimes rotten to our people right.40800:27:48.670 --> 00:27:52.990Yeah, but the do was committedand even though he would be one of40900:27:53.029 --> 00:27:56.950those that I would, you know, thankfully he's not been out there and41000:27:56.029 --> 00:27:59.779we've kind of prayed him away andI'm glad for that. Yeah, but41100:27:59.859 --> 00:28:03.099yet still I would would honor hisefforts, even if I completely disagree with41200:28:03.220 --> 00:28:08.460his methods. I would still honorhis efforts because when the guy he doesn't41300:28:08.460 --> 00:28:11.980know God. I can tell youthat he's not born again, to though41400:28:11.980 --> 00:28:14.529he does use some scripture and whatever. He just doesn't know the Lord.41500:28:15.289 --> 00:28:18.849I would say he still he putsome Christians, people that do know the41600:28:18.930 --> 00:28:22.170Lord, to shame out of hiscommitment. Now I would say that he's41700:28:22.210 --> 00:28:27.160committed and probably needs to be committedto a mental institution. But either way41800:28:27.359 --> 00:28:30.200the GAL was committed. So youcan honor people's efforts. What I agree41900:28:30.200 --> 00:28:34.359with their methods and it comes,it really helps your heart to come from42000:28:34.359 --> 00:28:37.839that perspective of honor. But Iwant to read real quick and this is42100:28:37.920 --> 00:28:42.109for Romans Chapter Twelve. We'll readthis passage and then there's some others that42200:28:42.190 --> 00:28:45.230I think have to do with this. When we talk about this, is42300:28:45.589 --> 00:28:48.670talking about people that actually know theLord and the really centered around the Gospel.42400:28:49.869 --> 00:28:52.869And this is Paul in Roma ChapterTwelve. He says, for I42500:28:52.990 --> 00:28:56.779say that the grace given to meto everyone who is among you not to42600:28:56.859 --> 00:29:00.500think of himself more highly than heought to think, but to think soberly.42700:29:00.579 --> 00:29:03.339So let's not think just because wehave a particular method and way of42800:29:03.420 --> 00:29:08.220doing things that our method is betterthan others. Just because God has called42900:29:08.259 --> 00:29:12.009us to something doesn't mean he's calledus to something better. Sometimes that could43000:29:12.009 --> 00:29:15.809be the case, but we needto come from a perspective of humility and43100:29:15.130 --> 00:29:19.289know that we're no better than anyoneelse. We're just called to a particular43200:29:19.529 --> 00:29:25.279particular area of ministry. So notto think of ourselves more highly than we43300:29:25.319 --> 00:29:29.319ought to. We're more Christian thanthey are or more loving than they are,43400:29:29.519 --> 00:29:32.720whether might be. Yeah, itsays as God has dealt to each43500:29:32.799 --> 00:29:37.279one a measure of faith. Foras we have many members in one body,43600:29:37.630 --> 00:29:41.990not all the members do the samething or do the same function.43700:29:41.269 --> 00:29:45.950So we, being many, areone body in Christ and individually members of43800:29:45.029 --> 00:29:48.789one another. Having, then,gifts differing according to the grace that is43900:29:48.829 --> 00:29:52.299given to us, let us usethem. If Prophecy, then let us44000:29:52.299 --> 00:29:56.180prophesy in proportion to our faith orministry. Let us use it in our44100:29:56.220 --> 00:30:00.059ministring. or He who teaches andteaching, he who exhorts and exhortation,44200:30:00.619 --> 00:30:04.980he gives and Liberality, he wholeads with diligence, he shows mercy,44300:30:06.420 --> 00:30:10.369with cheerfulness. So it's talking aboutthese different facets of ministry and how these44400:30:10.410 --> 00:30:15.170different facets of ministry can work togetherin the body of Christ right to bring44500:30:15.210 --> 00:30:18.490glory to Jesus. Yeah, aswe got to come from that perspective.44600:30:18.529 --> 00:30:23.119Yeah, of course, remembering,I think we've said this to the whole44700:30:23.200 --> 00:30:27.119thing, that there are people thatare going to come out on the sidewalk44800:30:27.839 --> 00:30:33.680prolife, people that are not helpful. Yeah, and there's gonna be times44900:30:33.359 --> 00:30:37.589that you're going to have to addressthose other groups. Yeah, and sometimes45000:30:37.670 --> 00:30:45.910they're things like literally, they causeso much anger towards us that we're endangered.45100:30:47.150 --> 00:30:49.740Yeah, it that it people wantto come beat us up. Yeah,45200:30:49.940 --> 00:30:55.619and and so you know that thathas to be addressed and there is45300:30:56.339 --> 00:31:00.339time and place. Yeah, forare addressing differences that you can't avoid.45400:31:00.339 --> 00:31:04.970There will be differences that sometimes youabsolutely do need to at some point address.45500:31:06.289 --> 00:31:10.369But in front of the abortion centersat the best place too? Well,45600:31:10.410 --> 00:31:14.089I would say typically it's not thebest. But yeah, especially for45700:31:14.210 --> 00:31:15.730going to be argue in methodology.Now, I do think that there are45800:31:15.809 --> 00:31:22.680conversations between the you know, againthe Prophetic and the evangelistic folks that are45900:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.559centered around the Gospel. But thereare still times where those those two groups46000:31:26.599 --> 00:31:27.920need to have conversations right and needto say hey, man, this is46100:31:29.119 --> 00:31:32.869not helpful what you're doing, andkind of lay out a case, lay46200:31:32.910 --> 00:31:36.829it out biblically. I've had thoseconversations. I've had those conversation. People46300:31:36.829 --> 00:31:40.829have had those conversations with me,but again, out in front of the46400:31:40.869 --> 00:31:42.549abortion center. It's not the bestplace to do it. If you think46500:31:42.589 --> 00:31:47.619about it from the perspective of awoman going into the abortion center, she's46600:31:47.700 --> 00:31:51.859looking out on the sidewalk and wemight think there's two, three, four,46700:31:52.059 --> 00:31:53.980five groups, different groups of peopleout there. We kind of look46800:31:53.980 --> 00:31:56.619at it maybe in that way becausewe know who they are for sure,46900:31:57.059 --> 00:32:01.170got write t shirts on or whatever. Yeah, but that woman looking from47000:32:01.210 --> 00:32:06.410that perspective over on the sidewalk,if we're fighting among ourselves, she didn't47100:32:06.410 --> 00:32:08.609see several different groups. She seesone group of people and she sees that47200:32:08.730 --> 00:32:13.210group of people arguing and fighting rightand so what do we conveying to her?47300:32:13.410 --> 00:32:16.599Yeah, we're basicying. We arefilled with chaos, hatred, anger,47400:32:16.799 --> 00:32:20.920crisis, same as you, honey. Come on join us. Yeah,47500:32:21.079 --> 00:32:22.960we got nothing more to offer herthan what she's already got going on47600:32:23.079 --> 00:32:27.680her life. That's a ask.Confusion, fighting, striving all that stuff47700:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.509right. So that's why I thinkwe need to be careful if we're going47800:32:30.509 --> 00:32:34.069to talk about methodology and we're goingto set people straight. And again,47900:32:34.109 --> 00:32:36.869I think there are times where weneed to set people straight. Yeah,48000:32:37.869 --> 00:32:40.789I think it's best to do itaway from the sidewalk and maybe coffee,48100:32:42.029 --> 00:32:45.420maybe have breakfast, maybe have launchor, if nothing else, step over48200:32:45.579 --> 00:32:51.099across the street or down the roada little bit or something like that and48300:32:51.220 --> 00:32:54.619have that conversation so you're not fightingamong yourselves out on the sidewalk in front48400:32:54.619 --> 00:32:58.690of the abortion said Yeah, you'rewait yess, that doesn't honor God.48500:32:58.970 --> 00:33:02.170That's right. And your witness beforethe women that you want to come talk48600:33:02.250 --> 00:33:07.410with you is one of calm,peace, all the things that she is48700:33:07.650 --> 00:33:10.849not experiencing, because we've been toldso many times that's what draws them over48800:33:12.009 --> 00:33:15.839to us. Yeah, absolutely.Yeah, and so I think there is48900:33:16.240 --> 00:33:22.319in the scripture a model that weuse and that we should use when we49000:33:22.440 --> 00:33:27.710encounter situations that that need to beaddressed. Yeah, and I believe that's49100:33:27.910 --> 00:33:31.150found in Matthew Chapter Eighteen, rightin verse fifteen. And you know,49200:33:31.269 --> 00:33:34.670you could say you can get realparticular with this and say, well,49300:33:34.710 --> 00:33:38.950this is Jesus talking to his disciplesand he's really talking about a church context,49400:33:39.910 --> 00:33:43.980in the church context, because hedoes talk about the church later on49500:33:44.059 --> 00:33:45.980in this passage. Yeah, andI think you could, you could be49600:33:46.019 --> 00:33:50.299right about that, that there isa context that Jesus is talking to.49700:33:50.420 --> 00:33:54.460He's talking in particular about the localchurch and using the church structure to address49800:33:54.460 --> 00:33:58.890a sin in people. But Ithink there is a general principle here that49900:33:58.970 --> 00:34:00.690can be applied even a sidewalk ministry, in any other kind of ministry,50000:34:00.970 --> 00:34:07.289and just can be replied relationally.Are Be applied relationally in in your interactions50100:34:07.329 --> 00:34:10.039with brothers and sisters in the Lordthat may not necessarily be in your local50200:34:10.119 --> 00:34:14.920church. Yeah, our pastor madethe point this this past Sunday, which50300:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.280struck me, that if you lookat Matthew Eighteen in a red letter Bible,50400:34:17.760 --> 00:34:23.000it's almost all read. Yeah,there's like two portions very brief scripture50500:34:23.389 --> 00:34:28.829that's black. Yeah, and thoseare both Jesus asking questions. Are Actually50600:34:28.829 --> 00:34:34.510it wasn't Jesus, it was thethe black portion of text. Are Are50700:34:34.829 --> 00:34:38.260people asking questions and then Jesus isresponding and the whole chapter is in read.50800:34:38.579 --> 00:34:44.619Yeah, because it's Jesus responding,and his response throughout chapter eighteen is50900:34:44.739 --> 00:34:49.579relational. It all has to dowith human beings relating to one another because51000:34:49.579 --> 00:34:55.130it's such a source of conflict sofrequently, and Jesus addresses that very specifically51100:34:55.449 --> 00:35:00.489throughout that chapter. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, here in Matthew,51200:35:00.530 --> 00:35:02.849Chapter Eighteen, Verse Fifteen, itsays, moreover, if your brother51300:35:02.969 --> 00:35:07.480sends against you, go and tellhim his fault between you and him alone.51400:35:07.519 --> 00:35:12.440And so if you've got an issue, I think the application on the51500:35:12.480 --> 00:35:15.559sidewalk is you got an issue withanother brother in the Lord that needs to51600:35:15.559 --> 00:35:20.960be addressed, then address it betweenyou and them. Don't get on your51700:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.750microphone and preach it to everybody else. Yeah, don't yell it out across51800:35:24.789 --> 00:35:29.710the parking lot or cross the drivewayor would ever. Go and address it51900:35:30.070 --> 00:35:32.349between you and them. Don't argueit out there on the sidewalk back and52000:35:32.469 --> 00:35:37.820forth. Take them after maybe afterthe ministry is over for the days.52100:35:37.860 --> 00:35:38.619Ay, brother, I need totalk to you about something. Yeah,52200:35:38.980 --> 00:35:43.099or shoot them a text. HeyI got I got something I need to52300:35:43.139 --> 00:35:45.860talk to you about. Are youavailable for call fee or can we meet52400:35:45.860 --> 00:35:50.090a little earlier. Yeah, don'tgossip about that person with others, which52500:35:50.130 --> 00:35:53.690I think is we all maybe havethe tendency to do that. Yeah,52600:35:53.769 --> 00:35:58.769or sometimes, well, couch itby, Hey, I really need prayer,52700:35:59.010 --> 00:36:01.929and then, rare for that,Start Gossiping, go, spill all52800:36:02.010 --> 00:36:07.159the dirt about this other human being. I think obviously this especially applies to52900:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.119people that are in the ministry yearend. So right, love life.53000:36:10.119 --> 00:36:14.599For example, our local volunteers.We tell our local volunteers if you got53100:36:14.639 --> 00:36:17.360a problem with another volunteer, yeah, do not bring it to us.53200:36:17.400 --> 00:36:22.150Yeah, at all. You don'twant to hear that problem right until you've53300:36:22.150 --> 00:36:24.630addressed it with them. After you'veaddressed it with them and you've dealt with53400:36:24.670 --> 00:36:29.309it between you and them and there'sbeen no change, yeah, then it53500:36:29.389 --> 00:36:32.539kind of can be escalated to writetalking to us and then we'll address it53600:36:32.980 --> 00:36:36.900with you and them, which iswhat Matthew eighteen goes on to tell us.53700:36:36.980 --> 00:36:40.539And there's any ongoing versus. Sowe're trying to approach any kind of53800:36:40.860 --> 00:36:46.849conflict through a biblical resolution. Theway this is. This is this is53900:36:46.889 --> 00:36:53.329a biblical method of reconciliation. Yep, how to reconcile with somebody. Yeah,54000:36:53.570 --> 00:36:58.650and so, Rather Than Gossiping aboutthem, rather than giving it as54100:36:58.690 --> 00:37:02.119a prayer request on facebook. Right, right, you address it between you54200:37:02.239 --> 00:37:06.199and them. Yes, now hedoes say if they if he says,54300:37:06.239 --> 00:37:08.119if you hear or if he hearsyou, you have gained your brother.54400:37:08.840 --> 00:37:12.199But if he will not hear youtake with you one or two more.54500:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.159So there's when you kind of escalateit to the next level. Let's take54600:37:15.280 --> 00:37:19.710one or two more people. AndI think the point here is that if54700:37:19.750 --> 00:37:22.949you can't find one or two morepeople that agree with you, then maybe54800:37:22.989 --> 00:37:24.630you're the one that's in the wrong. Right now, let me ask you,54900:37:24.710 --> 00:37:28.389because I may be remembering this wrong. Does it say one or two55000:37:28.550 --> 00:37:31.739more witnesses? I know it justsays take one or two more with you.55100:37:32.139 --> 00:37:35.340Okay, by the mouth, sothey don't know. He does say55200:37:35.460 --> 00:37:37.460by the mouth of two or threewitnesses, every word may be established.55300:37:37.579 --> 00:37:40.539So I'm just I was just wondering. I've read that many times and I55400:37:40.659 --> 00:37:44.329was just wondering. Does that mean? It should be someone who has seen55500:37:44.369 --> 00:37:51.929the same thing so that you're you'renot just gathering a posse against someone,55600:37:52.050 --> 00:37:57.170but you actually have people who whocan agree with you because they've seen it55700:37:57.329 --> 00:38:00.800themselves. I mean, I thinkit could mean that. I don't necessarily55800:38:00.840 --> 00:38:04.480know that it has to mean that. I think more the two or three55900:38:04.519 --> 00:38:08.159witnesses is applied to when you goin confront this person again, you've got56000:38:08.239 --> 00:38:13.869witnesses to that confrontation. See,okay, but it could mean someone else56100:38:13.909 --> 00:38:16.190who's been a party to this behaviorcould be and I think that might be56200:38:16.349 --> 00:38:21.550the best yeah, but I don'tthink it necessarily has to be. And56300:38:21.909 --> 00:38:25.110of course I guess that can beopen for other people's interpretation. But in56400:38:25.230 --> 00:38:30.059my mind the way that this isplay out in particular in our context is56500:38:30.099 --> 00:38:31.940if there's someone that's out there thesaying and doing things that don't honor the56600:38:32.059 --> 00:38:37.619Lord, I'm going to address themmyself if I see it, and if56700:38:37.659 --> 00:38:40.300they don't listen, if there's nochange that, I'll probably go and bring56800:38:40.420 --> 00:38:45.250another brother with me who I mighteven go and get my pastor, and56900:38:45.409 --> 00:38:50.289we talked to him and then ifit doesn't change, then I think you57000:38:50.369 --> 00:38:53.409are, in this context, PrettyLimited, because it goes on to talk57100:38:53.409 --> 00:38:55.599about bringing it before the church,like if they don't listen, then you57200:38:55.639 --> 00:38:59.360bring it before the Church and basicallyyou treat that person like an unbeliever.57300:38:59.360 --> 00:39:02.519Right, we can only take thisapplication of this scripture so far in the57400:39:02.599 --> 00:39:06.760context that we're talking to, becausewe're not in the context of local church57500:39:06.800 --> 00:39:08.559and we can't say that person isno longer a part of this church.57600:39:08.800 --> 00:39:13.829You know, again do that because, after all, we're talking mostly about57700:39:13.829 --> 00:39:15.269people. They're not a part ofthe ministry that you're involved in any way57800:39:15.429 --> 00:39:19.349right now. Do you think ifthey're part of the ministry you're involved in,57900:39:19.389 --> 00:39:22.829if they're a part of love lifeand they're not listening to you and58000:39:22.869 --> 00:39:27.059they're not listening to another person's partof love life, there's obviously a conversation58100:39:27.219 --> 00:39:30.019needs to be had about kicking thatperson out because they're not abiding by our58200:39:30.059 --> 00:39:34.500code of conduct right which is inplace for this very reason? Yes,58300:39:34.780 --> 00:39:37.730yeah, but I do think again, and not not that there's a direct58400:39:37.730 --> 00:39:42.570application of the scripture in every way, but I think there's a general principle58500:39:42.730 --> 00:39:45.530that if you've got an issue withsomeone, you need to address it between58600:39:45.570 --> 00:39:49.010you and them and then, ifthey don't listen the you need to take58700:39:49.050 --> 00:39:52.000someone notes with you. Yeah,and hopefully, and I've seen this play58800:39:52.039 --> 00:39:55.599out, that there's some resolve here. There's some at least some agreement here.58900:39:55.719 --> 00:40:00.400Yeah, yeah, and the mutualunderstanding that we're out here to honor59000:40:00.440 --> 00:40:02.239the Lord. That's right, we'rethere. And that's how it ends in59100:40:02.440 --> 00:40:07.590in verse Seventeen, where it saysfor where to let's see again, I59200:40:07.670 --> 00:40:10.869say to you of two of youagree on Earth about anything that they may59300:40:10.909 --> 00:40:14.429ask, it shall be done forthem by my father, who's in heaven.59400:40:14.469 --> 00:40:16.710For where two or three have gatheredtogether in my name, I'm there59500:40:16.750 --> 00:40:22.579in their midst. So that's thepositive kind of carrot at the end of59600:40:22.980 --> 00:40:30.139of doing a biblical approach to reconciliationis we not only honor God, but59700:40:30.260 --> 00:40:36.130there he is right with us inthe midst of a really important ministry,59800:40:36.210 --> 00:40:39.769yes, standing right next to us. Yeah, the overarching theme of any59900:40:39.849 --> 00:40:45.050of this is that we want tohonor Jesus. Right, we want to60000:40:45.130 --> 00:40:49.289honor Jesus, and that should beour motivation. Yeah, and there's a60100:40:49.329 --> 00:40:53.239scripture. It goes on in thatRomans twelve is actually a good chapter on60200:40:53.360 --> 00:40:59.840unity in Romans Eighteen, as ittalks about unity. You know, he60300:40:59.960 --> 00:41:02.199just talked about the body of Christin these different parts of the body of60400:41:02.199 --> 00:41:07.829Christ working together. Right and verseeighteen, he says, if it is60500:41:07.949 --> 00:41:14.389possible, as much as depends onyou, live peaceably with all men.60600:41:14.869 --> 00:41:19.699HMM. So, from our standpointas believers in Jesus, as those who60700:41:19.699 --> 00:41:22.500want to honor the Lord in asmuch as we are able to, let's60800:41:22.539 --> 00:41:27.139be at peace with all men.We're not out there just to be contentious60900:41:27.179 --> 00:41:30.980and we're not out there just topush our way in our methodology. Our61000:41:31.059 --> 00:41:36.170motivation should be to honor the LordJesus, and sometimes it's going to take61100:41:36.210 --> 00:41:40.090us swallow in our pride. Sometimesit's going to take us allowing things or61200:41:40.489 --> 00:41:45.369being subjected to things we don't necessarilylike, like methodologies that we don't agree61300:41:45.409 --> 00:41:51.360with or whatever, but just goingto have to suck it up sometimes.61400:41:51.719 --> 00:41:55.039Yeah, if there's a way toget people that are genuinely not honoring the61500:41:55.199 --> 00:41:59.800Lord off the sidewalk, then okay, I think you put it to prayer,61600:41:59.840 --> 00:42:01.110you put it in the Lord's handsand all of that. You take61700:42:01.110 --> 00:42:06.510authority of the atmosphere. But again, just because they're not doing things like61800:42:06.630 --> 00:42:09.630you doesn't necessarily mean they're dishonoring theLord Right. May just be dishonoring your61900:42:09.670 --> 00:42:15.179sensitivities right, and if you canlive peaceably with them, what a witness62000:42:15.300 --> 00:42:19.619that is for the people who sodesperately need to know the Lord. Who62100:42:19.619 --> 00:42:23.219Don't thought most of the pro choicepeople out there. Yeah, certainly many,62200:42:23.380 --> 00:42:27.980if not all, of the womengoing into a board. So your62300:42:28.099 --> 00:42:32.050our witness, is harmed when we'refighting and when we, even despite so62400:42:32.170 --> 00:42:38.369many differences, can come together peacefullyfor a the same purpose, that is62500:42:38.530 --> 00:42:44.480a it truly does point others youknow God. It makes them desire to62600:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.199know him better. Yeah, andthat's, as we wrap this thing up,62700:42:47.440 --> 00:42:52.000what Jesus is talking about in John, chapter seventeen, right when Jesus62800:42:52.000 --> 00:42:53.400is praying, and that's one ofour goals. Is Love, life.62900:42:53.519 --> 00:42:59.510Is that we want to see JohnSeventeen. Unity, Jesus says. Father,63000:42:59.590 --> 00:43:01.230I pray that they may be one, as you and I are one,63100:43:01.829 --> 00:43:06.429that the world may believe that yousent me exact our oneness are our63200:43:06.590 --> 00:43:09.070unity in the body of Christ,with all of our different methodologies and and63300:43:09.550 --> 00:43:14.619denominations and all that stuff, wecome together around the glory of Jesus Christ.63400:43:15.219 --> 00:43:19.539As much as we might disagree oncertain points, we can be unified63500:43:20.099 --> 00:43:24.019around really the heart of God andaround the person of Jesus Christ, and63600:43:24.219 --> 00:43:30.010that brings glory to him. Andit's evangelism that they might believe. And63700:43:30.210 --> 00:43:32.650so is in as much, guys, as you're listening, in as much63800:43:32.650 --> 00:43:37.170as it depends on you. Asthe Scripture says, strive for unity,63900:43:37.289 --> 00:43:43.320live at peace with all men andand I believe God will honor that.64000:43:44.679 --> 00:43:49.519And so I think we're wrap this. We wrap this podcast. That was64100:43:49.559 --> 00:43:53.519it. That was a really wonderfulmessage, I think, because it's it's64200:43:53.599 --> 00:43:58.869just such a constant issue. Yeah, and to look at it from the64300:43:58.989 --> 00:44:06.429perspective of this is yet another opportunityto evangelize. Hurting world is through how64400:44:06.590 --> 00:44:10.539we respond to people that we don'tnecessarily agree with. Yeah, yeah,64500:44:10.780 --> 00:44:15.460I agree. Well, guys,I appreciate you listening and hope that this64600:44:15.659 --> 00:44:17.420was a blessing you. Hope itwas an encouragement to you and, as64700:44:17.460 --> 00:44:20.980always, encourage you guys to reachout to us. Reach out to me,64800:44:21.059 --> 00:44:23.650Daniel Love Life Dot Org. Reachout to her, Vicky at Love64900:44:23.730 --> 00:44:27.570Life Dot Org. We'd love toanswer any questions that you have as best65000:44:27.610 --> 00:44:30.050we can. Pretty busy these days, but we would love to respond to65100:44:30.090 --> 00:44:32.610you, guys, if you haveany questions, if you've got any ideas65200:44:32.809 --> 00:44:36.489for future podcast, that would bea blessing to you. We'd love to65300:44:36.530 --> 00:44:42.440hear those ideas. And please doshare this podcast. Let other folks know65400:44:43.239 --> 00:44:45.039the things that you've learned from thispodcast and how it's been a blessing to65500:44:45.119 --> 00:44:49.480you, and send them over alink so they can listen to it's always65600:44:49.519 --> 00:44:52.119good to know that folks are listeningin and sharing what we're doing. And65700:44:52.230 --> 00:44:57.190with that, we'll see you guyslater. God, bless God. Bless65800:45:01.269 --> 00:45:14.619our love for love. Give meour love for gratitude. I know it65900:45:14.780 --> 00:45:22.570will cost me my life. Nothing'stoo precious in some you