June 3, 2021

Critiquing A Sidewalk Mock Session

Critiquing A Sidewalk Mock Session

We recently recorded a training video of a mock session of Vicky counseling a woman driving into the abortion center. We received a lot of feedback from a recent episode where we did a role-play session. We decided to do that again by playing the mock...


We recently recorded a training video of a mock session of Vicky counseling a woman driving into the abortion center. We received a lot of feedback from a recent episode where we did a role-play session. We decided to do that again by playing the mock session and offering some critique of that session and some wisdom from God’s Word and our experience to help equip you.

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me. 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.869 Lord, Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. As in a 3 00:00:09.949 --> 00:00:13.349 previous episode, in this episode we're going to play for you a mock sidewalk 4 00:00:13.429 --> 00:00:16.670 counseling session and then we're going to talk through some of the principles in this 5 00:00:16.829 --> 00:00:24.379 session that will help equip you to do subwalll counsel stay too, I felt 6 00:00:24.820 --> 00:00:36.250 show passish, touch your heart. Use. Welcome to the Gospel centered pro 7 00:00:36.409 --> 00:00:40.210 life podcast. Appreciate you guys joining us and, as always, we encourage 8 00:00:40.210 --> 00:00:43.570 you guys to share this podcast reach out to other folks who you think will 9 00:00:43.609 --> 00:00:47.289 be blessed by this episode of the podcast and just the podcast in general. 10 00:00:47.890 --> 00:00:53.520 We produce a lot of episodes really focused on sidewalk out reach and focused on 11 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.840 the ministry in front of abortion centers, but other other aspects of ministry as 12 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:02.960 well. But we think that these are encouragement. We put up a little 13 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.230 bit of energy into these podcast and I think we put a lot into it, 14 00:01:06.269 --> 00:01:10.390 a lot of thought, a lot of prayer, and I think this 15 00:01:10.510 --> 00:01:14.670 episode will be no different. As you know, past episodes we've gotten a 16 00:01:14.709 --> 00:01:19.099 lot of good feedback, especially the episode we did a couple of weeks ago. 17 00:01:19.500 --> 00:01:23.420 That was basically you and I, Vicky, doing a mock session, 18 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:26.620 yeah, of sidewalk counseling, kind of going back and forth. A lot 19 00:01:26.659 --> 00:01:30.379 of people were blessed by that. So we're we're going to go on that 20 00:01:30.500 --> 00:01:36.730 same vein with this episode and actually play for you guys a mock session of 21 00:01:36.890 --> 00:01:42.450 Vicky and one of our local sidewalk counselors here, Maddie, and they did 22 00:01:42.530 --> 00:01:45.530 this actually in front of the abortion center. We set up a camera and 23 00:01:45.609 --> 00:01:49.159 we did this actually for training purposes. We had kind of have this woven 24 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.120 in to our one hundred and one training where we look at this, this 25 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:57.200 conversation that you and Maddie have, and and we say, Hey, this 26 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.079 is this is a good model for conversation with a mom. And Maddie said 27 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:02.750 herself she was kind of scared. We kind of sprung it on her at 28 00:02:02.750 --> 00:02:07.069 the last minute. Can you do this? And I think the Lord used 29 00:02:07.109 --> 00:02:09.550 that really because the mom's that you encounter at the abortion center, they're scared 30 00:02:09.710 --> 00:02:13.509 right, hey, it is. It was actually very realistic. I really 31 00:02:13.550 --> 00:02:16.180 felt like I was counseling a mom. I kind of lost sight of the 32 00:02:16.259 --> 00:02:21.020 fact that I was doing a training video. It felt like a real counseling 33 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:23.699 session because we hadn't rehearsed it, we hadn't practiced it. They just a 34 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:30.530 general idea of what the common obstacles were that that Maddie was pretending to face. 35 00:02:30.569 --> 00:02:32.770 Yeah, and then how I would counsel. Yeah, I mean really, 36 00:02:34.129 --> 00:02:37.409 she did an amazing she job. When I watch the video, just 37 00:02:37.490 --> 00:02:39.210 kind of editing through it, which I didn't really edit anything out of it. 38 00:02:39.490 --> 00:02:44.879 Yeah, I was like wow, she she really has she's been out 39 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:46.639 there a lot. Yeah, that's evident. So she knows some of the 40 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.759 things that the women say right that are going into the abortion center, and 41 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.039 I think she really conveyed some of the things that we experience out there on 42 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.469 the sidewalk. I'm out halfway through it. I was almostconvanced. Okay, 43 00:03:00.590 --> 00:03:04.509 is Maddie considering an abortion? Maybe something. It's he did a really good 44 00:03:04.550 --> 00:03:07.389 job. Yeah. So we're going to play that for you guys, and 45 00:03:07.430 --> 00:03:09.789 then we're going to come back and we're going to kind of critique that. 46 00:03:10.590 --> 00:03:14.659 We're going to say, Hey, what what good with this mock session? 47 00:03:14.939 --> 00:03:17.539 What could have gone gone better? And we're going to do it to help 48 00:03:17.860 --> 00:03:21.900 train and equip you guys, helps encourage you, guess. Yeah, and 49 00:03:22.139 --> 00:03:24.659 also do just put out there that we know we're not perfect. Vicki is 50 00:03:24.740 --> 00:03:30.090 probably, I've told people, the best sidewalk counselor that it has ever existed 51 00:03:30.169 --> 00:03:36.250 in the history forever. And yet Vicky doesn't implement things perfectly right. So 52 00:03:36.370 --> 00:03:39.889 we're going to make Vicki feel really bad by taking we just had an episode, 53 00:03:39.930 --> 00:03:44.520 what was our last episode, about dealing with dealing with Criticisi is that's 54 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:46.120 the way say. Know how to deal with it now. Yeah, I 55 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:49.439 can handle it, whatever you throw at me. It's all right. That's 56 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.800 right. So we're going to criticize Vicki and really what we're going to find 57 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:58.590 is that Vicki did a phenomenal job and the Maddie did a phenomenal job and 58 00:03:59.229 --> 00:04:03.189 you guys are going to be blessed just to listen through this mock sidewalk counseling 59 00:04:03.310 --> 00:04:10.379 session. He there, my name is Vicki. My Name and numbers on 60 00:04:10.460 --> 00:04:14.180 the back of this information. Are you headed to the women's Center here? 61 00:04:14.539 --> 00:04:18.699 Yeah, do you know how far long you are? Um, I think 62 00:04:18.779 --> 00:04:21.899 about seven weeks. That's seven weeks. Okay, you know it's seven weeks 63 00:04:23.060 --> 00:04:28.129 that your child already has a beating hard and even has detectable brain waves. 64 00:04:28.490 --> 00:04:32.250 So we're here offering hope and help really, no matter what your situation is. 65 00:04:32.410 --> 00:04:35.649 But but tell me what, what is like? The main reason that 66 00:04:35.730 --> 00:04:40.680 you feel like you need to come and think about a boarding your child? 67 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.600 Well, I feel like there's a lot of reasons, but I just don't 68 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:46.560 have enough money. I don't have what I need. Okay, you don't 69 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.920 have enough money. All right, well, so, enough money. Who 70 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:54.829 you know what? Honestly, I think that probably every mother who's about to 71 00:04:54.870 --> 00:04:58.069 have a child really feel that way. I know I did. There's just 72 00:04:58.269 --> 00:05:01.149 really never enough money and the things that a baby needs. Is Is this 73 00:05:01.389 --> 00:05:05.709 first child? Actually it's not. I have a seven month Oho. Okay, 74 00:05:05.829 --> 00:05:09.420 so you guys seven month old. Is that one of the other reasons? 75 00:05:09.579 --> 00:05:13.740 Okay, so a couple things here, for first of all, that 76 00:05:14.500 --> 00:05:16.819 you know, yeah, those babies are close together, and that's probably really 77 00:05:16.939 --> 00:05:20.180 you're probably struggling even just thinking how am I going to take care of the 78 00:05:20.300 --> 00:05:25.050 one and take care of the other? But but first of all, just 79 00:05:25.209 --> 00:05:29.689 in terms of having enough money, we come with all kinds of resources that 80 00:05:29.889 --> 00:05:33.930 can help, even including a mentorship program where we can have a mom that'll 81 00:05:34.370 --> 00:05:38.600 been through this. We try to connect you with people who are in the 82 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:44.959 same situation as you've been that can walk walk through this with you. But 83 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:48.160 also they provide a baby shower that will give like two full years of what 84 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:53.709 your child will need, and and we have local pregnancy resource centers that will 85 00:05:53.750 --> 00:05:58.750 actually provide a lot of the needs of your child. One of the other 86 00:05:58.870 --> 00:06:01.790 things is just when you're thinking about not having enough money, sometimes you forget 87 00:06:01.829 --> 00:06:05.779 about some of the ways that that you can save money. Like, for 88 00:06:05.860 --> 00:06:09.540 example, there's the WIG program I don't know if you know about that, 89 00:06:09.740 --> 00:06:14.139 but where you know you can get formula and supplies for your child for free. 90 00:06:14.660 --> 00:06:19.129 There's food pantries and every everywhere that you save money in one place you 91 00:06:19.209 --> 00:06:24.250 know can go towards the money that you might need towards rent or something else. 92 00:06:24.649 --> 00:06:30.129 But the second thing that you said is your babies are really close together, 93 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:32.279 and I get that. How so, your other one is seven months 94 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.040 old. You said, yeah, seven months old, and this one is 95 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:40.360 is six weeks in the womb. But you know the love of a child, 96 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:44.439 right. You got that seven month old. And would you send that 97 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:47.069 seven month old back? Oh, absolutely, absolutely not. So so you 98 00:06:47.350 --> 00:06:53.629 love that child and I guarantee you that that you bring the baby in your 99 00:06:53.750 --> 00:06:59.670 womb to term, you will have that same love for for that little baby. 100 00:07:00.310 --> 00:07:04.060 But I know they're close together. I know you probably are feeling already 101 00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:08.980 overwhelmed. I mean a seven month old is is. They're busy and it's 102 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:13.259 and I I don't get like sleep and like what work and stuff is just 103 00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:16.329 it just seems like not manageable to have an eight. Yeah, yes, 104 00:07:16.449 --> 00:07:21.689 let me ask you. When do you think that that little baby in your 105 00:07:21.930 --> 00:07:29.170 womb became a baby? Is it a baby? I don't know, I 106 00:07:29.329 --> 00:07:33.680 guess I don't really know. I guess I just feel like it's not a 107 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:38.160 real baby until it's born. Okay. And and is that how you felt 108 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.600 about your other baby? I guess. So, okay, not until that 109 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:46.110 baby is born. So a minute before that child's birth, you didn't really 110 00:07:46.149 --> 00:07:48.990 feel that that was a baby. Well, I guess I just feel that, 111 00:07:49.310 --> 00:07:55.149 because it was detached to me, that it wasn't actually a baby. 112 00:07:55.310 --> 00:07:59.259 Okay itself. Okay, so right now, that seven month old, if 113 00:07:59.300 --> 00:08:03.860 you put that seven month old in her crib and left the room for three 114 00:08:03.899 --> 00:08:11.019 weeks with that seven month old be alive when you came back? Mm Not, 115 00:08:11.139 --> 00:08:13.089 unless so, right, right. So someone, someone, it is 116 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:18.490 all of us are dependent for for quite some time period as a human being. 117 00:08:18.529 --> 00:08:20.610 And that's kind of what you're saying, that that's some that little baby 118 00:08:20.689 --> 00:08:24.329 inside your womb is attached to you. Well, in a sense, so 119 00:08:24.569 --> 00:08:26.839 is your seven month old. But let me ask you. Do you believe 120 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.639 in God? Yeah, yeah, I believe in God. Okay. Do 121 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.639 you believe in Jesus? HMM, yeah, okay, okay, it is. 122 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.360 He your Lord. Do you think of him as Lord? I mean, 123 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:41.159 I guess so. Hey, he's Lord. Okay. So what do 124 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.629 you think that God would have you do? Because that little baby in God's 125 00:08:46.629 --> 00:08:52.470 eyes, the Bible says that that baby is the same as a born baby. 126 00:08:52.629 --> 00:08:54.590 God uses the same word. Bad, folks, is the word and 127 00:08:54.629 --> 00:08:58.299 the New Testament for a born baby in an UN born baby. And you 128 00:08:58.460 --> 00:09:03.500 probably know the six commandment if you know your Bible at all. But the 129 00:09:05.620 --> 00:09:07.860 that, I don't know what all. The top of the six commandment is 130 00:09:07.179 --> 00:09:11.370 thou shall not murder, and and murders a word that is reserved for human 131 00:09:11.409 --> 00:09:16.049 beings. Is that baby human in your womb? I guess. I guess. 132 00:09:16.129 --> 00:09:18.649 I'm yeah, not like a crocodile or anything. Right, right, 133 00:09:18.730 --> 00:09:22.610 it is a human being. Yeah, when do you think it became a 134 00:09:22.690 --> 00:09:28.919 human being? I guess it's always been a human right. Yeah, yeah, 135 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.159 it's that is logical from the moment of conception. And so the Bible 136 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:35.320 tells us, Jesus tells us, that we are to obey the commandment. 137 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:37.909 And in fact he says, why do you call me Lord, Lord and 138 00:09:39.070 --> 00:09:41.909 not do what I say? So he wants us to obey the commandment. 139 00:09:41.509 --> 00:09:46.909 One of those commandments is thou shall not murder. So you've got two babies 140 00:09:46.110 --> 00:09:50.669 close together, one born, one unborn, and and you're feeling really, 141 00:09:50.710 --> 00:09:56.779 really overwhelmed. But Um, but is that a reason to kill one you, 142 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.460 I assume you would not go and kill your seven month old. No, 143 00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.620 what I just I just feel that if God is loving, then he'll 144 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:09.330 forgive me. I don't feel like this is something God wants me to do 145 00:10:09.649 --> 00:10:16.090 necessarily. So do you think that God made a mistake? No, but 146 00:10:16.409 --> 00:10:20.289 maybe I did. Okay, who created life? Who Creates all life? 147 00:10:20.330 --> 00:10:24.879 God? God. So, if God doesn't make mistakes and God's the creator 148 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.840 of life, than that child. I old is not a mistake, logically 149 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:33.440 right. That child is a life. That child is a beating hard, 150 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.549 you know, up brain waves at six weeks, already arms, legs ahead, 151 00:10:37.590 --> 00:10:43.230 a spine beginning, fingers and toes, every organ. In the next 152 00:10:43.389 --> 00:10:46.590 week of this child's life in your roomb, every organ will be in place. 153 00:10:48.470 --> 00:10:52.460 So if God doesn't make mistakes and if he's the creator of life and 154 00:10:52.580 --> 00:10:58.580 he says I shall not murder, he's kind of giving you really what he 155 00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:03.139 would have you do. Right, what do you think that God would have 156 00:11:03.330 --> 00:11:07.169 you do? He would have me to keep baby. Would have you keep 157 00:11:07.210 --> 00:11:11.690 that baby? Right? How is does the dad know about this child? 158 00:11:11.690 --> 00:11:16.929 Yeah, he basically said that if I don't have an abortion, then he's 159 00:11:16.929 --> 00:11:20.759 leaving. So so he's kind of coursing you, he is pressuring you, 160 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.240 Din he's kicking you out. Okay, so first of all, you do 161 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:26.960 know, or maybe you don't know, but coercion is illegal. That that 162 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:31.360 he should not do that. It is against the law for someone to commerce 163 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.309 someone to a board. But did you know that most couples, I think 164 00:11:35.470 --> 00:11:39.070 the percentage in the the last article I read was sixty seven percent of couples 165 00:11:39.509 --> 00:11:46.779 who have abortion in their history together and up separating anyway. But I also 166 00:11:46.820 --> 00:11:52.659 want you to ask yourself, this man is asking you to kill the child 167 00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:58.899 you and he conceived together. Is that someone you really want to be with? 168 00:12:00.419 --> 00:12:03.570 I mean we've just if it's just we've been together for so long and 169 00:12:03.490 --> 00:12:07.570 he I live with him and, yeah, I don't want things to end 170 00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:13.850 thought way. Yeah, remember that. The the man is probably as scared 171 00:12:13.090 --> 00:12:18.960 and shocked as you were when you first saw that pregnancy test. And some 172 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.440 men do come around. But I think it's so important to think about if 173 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:28.000 a father is asking a mother kill our child, what does that say about 174 00:12:30.389 --> 00:12:37.149 his love and care for you? Right, yeah, so, is there 175 00:12:37.190 --> 00:12:45.980 any any conflict in your heart about taking that child's life? Yes, m 176 00:12:46.539 --> 00:12:50.179 yeah, well, let me let me tell you. We have many resources 177 00:12:50.299 --> 00:12:54.100 that can help you. Right over there, we have a mobile ultrasound unit 178 00:12:54.100 --> 00:12:56.940 and we can take you on right away and show your baby's beating heart. 179 00:12:56.940 --> 00:13:00.850 Would you be willing to continue to talk with me on there and I'll share 180 00:13:00.929 --> 00:13:07.610 more resources and we'll talk about some very concrete solutions for some of these issues 181 00:13:07.690 --> 00:13:09.289 say you face. That be okay, yeah, I think I would like 182 00:13:09.370 --> 00:13:13.039 that. Great. All Right, I'll take you over there right now. 183 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.720 Thank you. All right. Well, we're back. We hope that was 184 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:24.240 a blessing to you guys. We hope you kind of entered into that conversation 185 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.190 as you were listening through, and there is actually a video of that out. 186 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:33.149 When this episode goes alive, there should be an article out on our 187 00:13:33.190 --> 00:13:37.110 sidewalks for life website and you guys can check that out. Within that article 188 00:13:37.190 --> 00:13:41.100 in the sidewalks for life website there will be a link to the youtube videos. 189 00:13:41.139 --> 00:13:46.860 If you wanted to watch that, you certainly could, but we're going 190 00:13:46.899 --> 00:13:50.700 to we're going to look at that conversation. Yeah, we're going to kind 191 00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.059 of summarize some of the main points. Yeah, because I think it's important 192 00:13:54.539 --> 00:14:03.330 to really verbalize what the flow of that conversation was, because it was very 193 00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:05.409 typical. Yeah. Well, one of the things that I think is really 194 00:14:05.450 --> 00:14:11.200 important that you did right away as you introduced yourself. Yeah, because this 195 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:13.799 is relationship building. We're trying to build trust with that young lady and one 196 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.879 of the ways that we do that is by introducing ourselves kind of tear down 197 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.879 those walls problem. So I'm not some Raven Lunatics, some protest or whatever, 198 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:24.149 but I'm Vicky Ye, here to offer you help. Yeah, and 199 00:14:24.269 --> 00:14:28.909 then the gentleness that you come across, and obviously that's that's very important, 200 00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:31.470 because we didn't want to come out of the gate right out, you know, 201 00:14:31.549 --> 00:14:33.950 right off the Bat, don't order your baby and just kind of go 202 00:14:33.549 --> 00:14:37.230 into, you know, frantic mode where we kind of scare them away. 203 00:14:37.230 --> 00:14:41.379 Yeah, so coming across with gentleness. Yeah, now I will offer it 204 00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:45.700 now. We've talked about this. So let's talk about this just for a 205 00:14:45.740 --> 00:14:50.100 second, because you introduced yourself right, but in that video I don't remember 206 00:14:50.139 --> 00:14:54.250 you asking her what her name was. I don't think I ever did until 207 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:56.490 maybe at the end. I honestly to don't remember, but I did not 208 00:14:56.690 --> 00:15:03.049 at the beginning and I often do not. Yeah, and we have mentioned 209 00:15:03.090 --> 00:15:05.929 that, I think in the last podcast, maybe. But the reason I 210 00:15:05.129 --> 00:15:09.840 do not is that quite often I have found when I do, if if 211 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:16.799 I ask immediately, they they instantly hackles go up, suspicion goes up. 212 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.919 They they don't want to give me personal information. They're there to kill their 213 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:26.389 baby. They're mostly ashamed. Many are coming from hours away. So that 214 00:15:26.549 --> 00:15:30.590 their identity won't be revealed. So they have no idea what I'm going to 215 00:15:30.629 --> 00:15:39.580 do with that information and I purposely don't really don't ask them their name on 216 00:15:39.940 --> 00:15:43.740 often times until at the very end, sometimes not at all. Usually by 217 00:15:43.779 --> 00:15:46.539 the time I get to the end and I'm if they're going to go on 218 00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:48.019 the RV, I'll ask him. Yeah, or right before praying. I 219 00:15:48.100 --> 00:15:52.450 was because I want to use their name in prayer if they're willing to let 220 00:15:52.490 --> 00:15:56.889 me pray for them. But I know you do. Sometimes do ask their 221 00:15:56.929 --> 00:16:00.289 name. Yeah, right away. Yeah, I mostly don't ride away, 222 00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:03.370 though you have, for the same reason you said now. It just depends. 223 00:16:03.450 --> 00:16:06.559 It depends on if I can perceive that they're solved hearted and they're being 224 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:10.480 relational. Yeah, then I'll will go ahead and ask their name, but 225 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.080 mostly if they're if there's kind of that wall up, yeah, I want 226 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:17.240 to try to do everything I can to keep that conversation going and so I 227 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.830 don't want to shut the conversation down by asking them personal information to quickly and 228 00:16:21.950 --> 00:16:23.590 I will, like you said, if I'm if I've kind of given them 229 00:16:23.629 --> 00:16:27.549 everything I possibly can, I normally will kind of, I guess, close 230 00:16:27.669 --> 00:16:30.309 the deal. I don't know how it's to say it, but kind of 231 00:16:30.309 --> 00:16:34.259 wrap the conversation up with prayer and I will ask them for their name. 232 00:16:34.299 --> 00:16:37.940 Can I pray for you? And then I will use their name. Right. 233 00:16:37.940 --> 00:16:41.700 So I think one of the points here, with any of these conversations, 234 00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:45.620 is you've got to be walking with God, you've got to be led 235 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:48.210 by the Holy Spirit. You got to do the best you can to yield 236 00:16:48.210 --> 00:16:52.769 to the Holy Spirit him, let him speak through you. And if you 237 00:16:52.850 --> 00:16:56.250 ask their name, you know right away. I can use that. I 238 00:16:56.370 --> 00:16:59.730 Spring Board off of that, like we kind of did an arm OC session 239 00:16:59.769 --> 00:17:02.639 when you said your name was faith, right, a couple episodes ago. 240 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:04.920 Yeah, I use that in my counseling. Do you have faith? You 241 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:07.599 know there's a God that you can put your faith in. Right, right. 242 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.400 So, yeah, it's general rule. I think you want to be 243 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:15.869 as relational as possible and sometimes that means he's always means you sharing what your 244 00:17:15.869 --> 00:17:18.390 name isn't you always do that? But asking them what their name is, 245 00:17:18.509 --> 00:17:22.630 yeah, you maybe want to read the situation a little better. Yeah, 246 00:17:22.670 --> 00:17:25.630 and at the moment that I asked her her name, and this is just 247 00:17:25.750 --> 00:17:29.829 second nature now, but it's a very important point. I'm extending my hand 248 00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:33.619 with the literature in it to her to take, yeah, from me. 249 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:36.819 You mean when you shared your name, as as I'm saying hi, I'm 250 00:17:36.819 --> 00:17:40.779 Vicky, as I'm saying that, my arm is going out and and I'm 251 00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:45.690 offering the information, yeah, to her right away. Yeah. Now one 252 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:49.769 of the next things that you did in that counseling session is you ask her 253 00:17:49.809 --> 00:17:53.769 how far along she writes. Now, we just talked about not getting to 254 00:17:53.970 --> 00:17:57.759 personally at yeah, because that can shut the conversation. Yeah, but there 255 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:02.440 does need to be a basis for the conversation that you do got to get 256 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:04.759 into some personal stuff. Yeah, so asking them how far along they are, 257 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:11.240 and you'd be surprised actually, of how I easily they would give you 258 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.549 this information. Yeah, I think I'm eight weeks along or whatever. Yeah, 259 00:18:14.589 --> 00:18:18.349 or if they say they don't know, then we I'll instantly say something 260 00:18:18.390 --> 00:18:21.190 along the lines of what we can tell you. We can take you right 261 00:18:21.190 --> 00:18:23.789 now on our free mobile ultrasound unit and yeah, and tell you how far 262 00:18:23.829 --> 00:18:27.059 along you are. What is one of the important reasons, though, to 263 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:30.940 know that information? Well, the most important for me is that then I 264 00:18:30.980 --> 00:18:40.420 can actually recite developmental facts about what is happening in that child, because most 265 00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:45.730 of them are at least five weeks if they've missed their period, at least 266 00:18:45.730 --> 00:18:49.130 five weeks. And I've got memorized the key developmental facts of the first really 267 00:18:49.250 --> 00:18:52.569 twenty weeks, but certainly if the first nine weeks, and so I can 268 00:18:52.690 --> 00:18:56.039 recite back. I think I did it in the video. Immediately start to 269 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.400 tell some of the basic developmental facts. The hearts beating already. If you've 270 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.519 missed period by six weeks, brain brain waves are detectable by eight weeks every 271 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:11.190 organ and place. Those are three really key developmental facts and when you do 272 00:19:11.549 --> 00:19:18.390 that you are instantly humanizing the child right and showing that this is not just 273 00:19:18.630 --> 00:19:22.470 a blob of cells. And most of the women don't know. Yeah, 274 00:19:22.589 --> 00:19:27.299 no matter what the socalled pro choice people say, they do not know that 275 00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:32.740 the baby is that developed that early one. So No, one of the 276 00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:36.420 things that I find in my conversations is when I ask a woman how far 277 00:19:36.460 --> 00:19:37.769 along she is, you know, a lot of times they'll tell me right 278 00:19:37.890 --> 00:19:41.289 out, you know, I'm nine weeks, I'm eight weeks and ten weeks 279 00:19:41.289 --> 00:19:45.170 or whatever. But also a lot of times I'll find that they're actually dating 280 00:19:45.210 --> 00:19:48.130 themselves as early as possible. So they might say, well, I'm two 281 00:19:48.170 --> 00:19:52.329 weeks from three weeks. Well, yeah, probably not the case. Actually, 282 00:19:52.329 --> 00:19:55.440 as you drilled down into it, you find that they've actually dated themselves 283 00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:59.400 as early as possible because of the guilt factor, because they figure well, 284 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.359 if I'm from four weeks, this guy that's talking to me is not going 285 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.880 to judge me, yeah, for coming here whatever, because it's not yet 286 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:10.190 a baby. And say date themselves as early as possible so that they can 287 00:20:10.230 --> 00:20:11.710 say, well, it's not really a baby. Yeah, and usually what 288 00:20:11.829 --> 00:20:15.069 I do when I hear that two or three weeks is I asked, Oh 289 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:19.509 wow, you know you're probably further along. What was the last the first 290 00:20:19.509 --> 00:20:22.180 day of your last period? I'll I'll write to ask them that. Yeah, 291 00:20:22.220 --> 00:20:26.019 and I've gotten pretty good at calculating then how how far they along, 292 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:32.859 are actually along, and it's almost always five weeks. It's almost always the 293 00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:37.369 earliest. UN rare occasion there's someone that that truly is only about four weeks. 294 00:20:37.529 --> 00:20:40.049 Yeah, along. Well, always will go, because I'm not going 295 00:20:40.049 --> 00:20:42.289 to drill into that. You may not as a man right. Well, 296 00:20:42.369 --> 00:20:45.009 I will go to the fact that, well, at the moment of conception. 297 00:20:45.170 --> 00:20:49.839 Your baby's got unique DNA, is a unique individual. Yeah, and 298 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:53.440 it just eighteen, twenty one days your baby's heart began to be so you 299 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.799 and if you're that early along, then your baby is still a human being. 300 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:00.440 Yeah. So I could right to that. Yeah, and that that's 301 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.950 keep point to be able to to mention. And then then I think I 302 00:21:06.109 --> 00:21:10.990 moved into offering just general help. I don't yet know everything she's facing, 303 00:21:11.789 --> 00:21:14.509 just a general statement, Hey, we have hope and help for you, 304 00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:17.589 no matter what you face. We can help you. I'm really glad you 305 00:21:17.710 --> 00:21:22.019 stopped. Yeah. So, yeah, and then think the next point that 306 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.339 you got into, which I think is it's one of the things I want 307 00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:29.259 to get right to as well as I'm a conversation with a woman at the 308 00:21:29.299 --> 00:21:32.500 abortion center. Is What brought you here. Right. What are your main 309 00:21:32.619 --> 00:21:36.250 obstacle, because I want to really find that there's there's probably a bunch of 310 00:21:36.329 --> 00:21:40.130 stuff going on her life, I would say relational stuff, financial stuff, 311 00:21:40.289 --> 00:21:44.329 health stuff, all these things that are going on, but there's there's probably 312 00:21:44.450 --> 00:21:48.079 of all of those things, one major thing, kind of like the straw 313 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.039 that broke the camel's back right, right, and I want to try to 314 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:55.279 ask a question and I'll frame it in a couple of different ways, but 315 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.240 basically, why did you come here? Yeah, what is the thing that's 316 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:02.190 going on in your life that makes you feel like abortion is an option for 317 00:22:02.269 --> 00:22:04.150 you? I ask it like that sometimes. Yeah, I'll ask it, 318 00:22:04.509 --> 00:22:08.150 you know, I'll maybe imply. Are you struggling financially? Is that why 319 00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:11.349 you've come here? Yeah, are you having an issue with your boyfriend? 320 00:22:11.589 --> 00:22:14.470 Is that what you've come here? So I'm going to ask it that way, 321 00:22:14.549 --> 00:22:17.940 but I want to try to really drilly into sometimes I'd even asked the 322 00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:21.779 question if we could take care of if I could promise you that we could 323 00:22:21.819 --> 00:22:26.140 take care of one thing that would keep you from going inside of that abortion 324 00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:29.539 center, what would that one thing be? Yeah, now ask you like 325 00:22:29.660 --> 00:22:32.609 that. Yeah, and it really kind of brings to the surface. What 326 00:22:32.849 --> 00:22:36.289 is that struggle? What is that main issue that brought her there? And 327 00:22:36.450 --> 00:22:40.690 then when she shares that, I'll give a corresponding resource. Well, if 328 00:22:40.769 --> 00:22:44.599 that's the case, here's how we can help. Right. And one of 329 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:47.359 the things that I did in the video, and I think it is also 330 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:52.480 in general, a good technique, counseling technique, is to restate what they've 331 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:56.039 said. Yeah, reflect on what they've said, reach say it in another 332 00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:00.029 way to make sure first of all, you're making sure they know they've been 333 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:04.910 heard. Yeah, they know you're not minimizing that obstacle, but for them 334 00:23:06.109 --> 00:23:11.859 to hear it from ant, from you, sometimes will help them to recognize, 335 00:23:11.900 --> 00:23:15.980 oh, maybe it's not as big a deal, right as I as 336 00:23:17.019 --> 00:23:19.220 I thought it was. But and then what you said, give give a 337 00:23:19.299 --> 00:23:25.859 general solution or specific solutions if you know if you have resources in your area 338 00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:32.730 that can specifically resolve that, whatever that obstacle is. It's important to to 339 00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:37.329 mention that. Then absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I think the point is 340 00:23:37.450 --> 00:23:41.960 that you're telling them their circumstance is not beyond the help that you have. 341 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.920 Right, right, if that situation might be. Yes, help their resources. 342 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:49.279 Yeah, and there's time times to let them talk and to restate what 343 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:55.000 they're saying. And I but I think there is also g rate value in 344 00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.509 asking a lot of questions. First of all, you figure out what the 345 00:23:57.589 --> 00:24:02.789 true situation is. The more you ask questions, the more they divault why 346 00:24:02.869 --> 00:24:06.190 they're really there. Yeah, absolutely, what the what the root of that 347 00:24:06.390 --> 00:24:11.660 is, and so and that is the socratic method. It's a really good 348 00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:17.740 method of getting people talking. Yeah, and and truly revealing issues. Yes, 349 00:24:17.859 --> 00:24:19.859 to ask a lot of questions, and one of the major points, 350 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:25.329 of course, asking a lot of questions is getting a lot of answers and 351 00:24:25.769 --> 00:24:30.210 listening correct those answer yeah, not just asking questions in such a way where 352 00:24:30.250 --> 00:24:33.410 you're getting their mouth moving, voter running. Yeah, but you've got information 353 00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:37.569 they're giving you to springboard off of. Yes, when you're asking these these 354 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.519 various questions, like what are the obstacles that you're facing? So make sure 355 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.759 when you're asking questions, you're actually listening and you're not thinking about what's my 356 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.720 next question going to be? Right, yeah, which is hard sometimes because 357 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.750 you're on the spot. You do feel the urgency. You should not really 358 00:24:53.869 --> 00:24:59.670 show that you're feeling that urgency, but there is the urgency that they may 359 00:24:59.710 --> 00:25:03.470 at any moment decide to zoom away. Yeah, I knew in this session 360 00:25:03.549 --> 00:25:06.349 she was going to stay to the end, since it was a mock one, 361 00:25:06.829 --> 00:25:11.299 but in a real session you never know. Yeah, so I think 362 00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:15.500 that's why it's it's like a dance between the the counselor and, though the 363 00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:19.700 woman. In terms of that, you're asking questions, but you also want 364 00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:25.089 to make sure that that they know that they've been her so restating it to 365 00:25:25.250 --> 00:25:30.930 show that they've been heard and then spring boarding off on onto the next question. 366 00:25:30.569 --> 00:25:34.759 In our area, what I did next is we do have a very 367 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:41.160 well established mentor program. Lots and lots of churches are connected and we have 368 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.440 a backlog of mentors. Fortunately, that may not be true in every area, 369 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.079 but I know it was true in our area, so that as soon 370 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:55.789 as I could, I mention that that program and some of the things that 371 00:25:55.910 --> 00:26:00.670 that program the resources that that program can provide or link them with. So 372 00:26:03.349 --> 00:26:06.819 you want to ride away be giving them hope? Yeah, if they're there, 373 00:26:06.980 --> 00:26:10.220 they're hopeless. Yeah. No one shows up to an abortion center brimming 374 00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:15.099 with hope. So so the way that we instill hope obviously through the Gospel, 375 00:26:15.619 --> 00:26:19.250 but also through help, you, through tangible yeah, and it goes 376 00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:22.049 along the lines of those three talking points that we always push. You know 377 00:26:22.130 --> 00:26:26.369 what God says? Yeah, humanity, the baby and the resources that are 378 00:26:26.369 --> 00:26:32.329 available. Right, and a lot of times the conversation centers around the conversation 379 00:26:32.369 --> 00:26:34.960 about the Lord bringing God into the equation, centers around the resources that are 380 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.960 available yeah, and ultimately, the end of the day, these resources that 381 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:42.119 we have or there because of God, because the provision of the Lord. 382 00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:48.390 Yeah, so in these conversations were always bringing him into view, right into 383 00:26:48.430 --> 00:26:52.150 the picture, because he's there anyway. They just don't acknowledge his presence a 384 00:26:52.230 --> 00:26:56.789 lot of times. And bring them in as early as you can, but 385 00:26:56.430 --> 00:27:03.019 not so sometimes it's not the very first thing. I'll say it's usual, 386 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.420 but it's usually within the first third of the conversation, for sure. Yeah, 387 00:27:07.819 --> 00:27:10.140 that I want to mention. Well, what would God have you do? 388 00:27:10.220 --> 00:27:12.859 Do you believe in God? Yeah, I know. One of the 389 00:27:12.980 --> 00:27:17.369 things that you never want to do, in which I think you obviously you 390 00:27:17.490 --> 00:27:22.769 do well in these conversations, is you never want to minimize people struggles, 391 00:27:22.970 --> 00:27:27.609 right, even sometimes, as as ridiculous as those struggles might be, as 392 00:27:27.650 --> 00:27:32.839 ridiculous as some of the justifications might be. Yeah, and this situation, 393 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:36.319 I mean there were some there's some struggles for sure, and they were common 394 00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:40.240 situations, by the way, they were the foremost common situations. That was 395 00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:42.839 the brief outline that we had given Maddie. These are going to be your 396 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:47.150 issues, these four things. So I knew what her issues were. Going 397 00:27:47.150 --> 00:27:49.670 to be, but they are what we face the most often. Were the 398 00:27:49.750 --> 00:27:53.589 things that Maddie brought up. Yeah, I know. My wife was telling 399 00:27:53.630 --> 00:27:59.220 me at one point she was counseling with a moment the abortion center and of 400 00:27:59.339 --> 00:28:03.460 the like most ridiculous reasons to have an abortion, this was probably probably the 401 00:28:03.619 --> 00:28:08.180 most selfish and the most ridiculous. And yet you still have to hear, 402 00:28:08.420 --> 00:28:14.130 hear these these things out and keep your composure, not say that's ridiculous right, 403 00:28:14.289 --> 00:28:18.089 because of them. Obviously it's not ridiculous right, but you can kind 404 00:28:18.130 --> 00:28:22.809 of rephrase the the statement and help them to see how ridiculous that's. So, 405 00:28:22.009 --> 00:28:26.529 for example, this young lady was she didn't want to be pregnant because 406 00:28:26.690 --> 00:28:30.200 she was a stripper and it would hurt her business, it would hurt her 407 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.640 her ability to make money. And it's like you hear that, you realize, 408 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:37.400 okay, this person is about to kill their child because they don't want 409 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:42.390 their vocation to be affected. How selfish and how ridiculous is that? But 410 00:28:42.670 --> 00:28:45.829 right, obviously a struggle with them. Yeah, and you know, you 411 00:28:45.950 --> 00:28:48.670 got to meet people where they are. Not doesn't mean you justify that and 412 00:28:49.069 --> 00:28:52.829 you and you don't really focus on the selfishness is wrapped up in that. 413 00:28:52.869 --> 00:28:56.660 But there's a way to phrase that. So what I'm basically saying it was 414 00:28:56.740 --> 00:29:02.140 when someone, if someone says something that's so outlandish and so ridiculous, yeah, 415 00:29:02.220 --> 00:29:06.579 and you just say that's ridiculous. You guys had the conversation that real 416 00:29:06.619 --> 00:29:08.539 quick right. It's our I have one. I can one up you on 417 00:29:08.579 --> 00:29:12.849 this one. That one. She, the woman, told me that she 418 00:29:14.009 --> 00:29:17.769 wanted to be able to fit into a bikini because beach weather was approaching. 419 00:29:17.849 --> 00:29:21.369 Yeah, and so that's why she was at then that's that's pretty bad. 420 00:29:21.490 --> 00:29:23.289 I mean, at least the stripper was trying to provide for her family, 421 00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:30.200 I guess. But the Bikini, there's nothing but selfish vanity that that is 422 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.599 behind that. But, and honestly I can't remember what I responded, but 423 00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:41.950 I know I probably did try to say something like I I understand women feeling 424 00:29:41.069 --> 00:29:47.990 the need, oftentimes exaggerated need, to be beautiful before others, but listen, 425 00:29:48.109 --> 00:29:49.950 this is a person's life. Yeah, that we're talking about. So 426 00:29:51.029 --> 00:29:55.140 you can you can read phrase it in a way that is an insulting yeah, 427 00:29:55.259 --> 00:29:57.380 or too insulting. I think I just again you have to be careful 428 00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:03.940 not to just marginalize their concerns whatever, but bring them in view, like 429 00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:07.809 take that concern and bring it in view in light of what's happening right. 430 00:30:07.130 --> 00:30:11.250 So whatever that concern might be, you can bring it into the view of 431 00:30:11.289 --> 00:30:15.609 okay, well, you're about to kill a person because of this. Understand 432 00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:18.650 that. Yeah, and then also, whatever those struggles are, God sees 433 00:30:18.730 --> 00:30:23.039 them and God knows them. Yeah, and he's concerned about them, obviously, 434 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.240 the struggles and things like that, and he's not necessarily concerned about the 435 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.839 stripper being able to continue to do what she wants to do, but he 436 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:37.109 is concerned about the struggles and things and the pressure that those struggles bring to 437 00:30:37.230 --> 00:30:40.589 the point where a woman believes that abortion is a way of escape for her. 438 00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:42.710 So we need to bring the truth and to bring the truth into that 439 00:30:42.829 --> 00:30:48.869 equation. You know, another example is and we did an episode about adoption 440 00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:52.140 and how to mention adoption. Probably it was probably been a year ago, 441 00:30:52.180 --> 00:30:55.019 I would say, but it's an important subject because we get it all the 442 00:30:55.099 --> 00:31:00.099 time. Don't you mention adoption? We don't actually a lot mention adoption and 443 00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:03.059 like go back and listen to the episode, you can find out why we 444 00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:06.890 don't doesn't. Okay, we do mention adoption, but there's a time and 445 00:31:06.970 --> 00:31:10.609 a place for it. And when we do mention adoption, a lot of 446 00:31:10.690 --> 00:31:14.049 times, though, the reaction is, well, I can't give my baby 447 00:31:14.130 --> 00:31:18.920 to someone else, and so that's another like kind of ridiculous statement right where 448 00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:23.480 your in essence saying so you're you're telling me you can't give your child to 449 00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:29.079 another couple that you choose, but you can kill them. Do you see 450 00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:30.960 a ridiculous idea? So, when you hear that, though, my point 451 00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:34.829 is our reaction shouldn't be one of well, that's ridiculous. It should be 452 00:31:36.109 --> 00:31:38.990 hear them out, process what they're saying and then repeat it back to them 453 00:31:40.109 --> 00:31:41.670 in such a way, and we've done that before. So you're telling me 454 00:31:42.309 --> 00:31:47.380 that instead of giving this child life and placing that child with a couple that 455 00:31:47.460 --> 00:31:49.259 will love them and care for them, you would rather kill them. Right, 456 00:31:49.660 --> 00:31:53.140 that's that's that's not poopoo in their concern, right, but it is 457 00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:56.140 showing them their concern in the light of what's true. Right, and this 458 00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:59.779 is the same way and in the enny of these conversations. They might have 459 00:31:59.940 --> 00:32:02.410 concerns and struggles, but we want to, want to show them those struggles 460 00:32:02.490 --> 00:32:06.130 in light of the truth and light of the fact that they're about to kill 461 00:32:06.130 --> 00:32:09.369 her child and God has made provision for them. Right. Yeah, exactly. 462 00:32:09.529 --> 00:32:15.880 So as asking the questions that will help them to understand what the issue 463 00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:21.640 really is and oftentimes sets bringing them to that the issue truly is usually some 464 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.519 sort of selfish yeah, selfish reason, but you don't need to, you 465 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.119 know, label it with that. You can help them to come to that 466 00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:31.349 conclusion. Yeah, but pretty early on. So bringing God into the equation, 467 00:32:31.430 --> 00:32:36.589 and I love what I think at some point with with Maddie, early 468 00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:39.589 on, I talked about when did that child become loved or valued by God? 469 00:32:40.069 --> 00:32:45.059 That was something that I started after you came up with your fail safe 470 00:32:45.220 --> 00:32:50.059 pro life argument, which is truly a good one. It's not fail safe 471 00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:52.980 because people do still go and kill their baby after they hear it, but 472 00:32:53.140 --> 00:33:00.609 it is an argument that very few people can find a flaw with. Yeah, 473 00:33:00.569 --> 00:33:04.450 so that's when did God start loving you? Yeah, and then working 474 00:33:04.529 --> 00:33:07.769 them through to well where they you know, the only thing that makes logical 475 00:33:07.849 --> 00:33:12.250 senses from the moment of conception. I often have people say, Gee, 476 00:33:12.250 --> 00:33:15.480 I don't know they've never thought about it, and that's I think, a 477 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:21.759 key good counseling technique is to ask questions where you're provoking thought. Yeah, 478 00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:24.720 because oftentimes no one has thought about that. Gee, when did God start 479 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:32.309 loving me? Or when did my baby or me become valuable? And those 480 00:33:32.349 --> 00:33:37.269 were questions that Maddie was great at, like saying Gee and saying now, 481 00:33:37.470 --> 00:33:42.500 I guess from the moment of conception. That is what I face when that's 482 00:33:42.619 --> 00:33:45.579 often the response. Yeah, when we ask that. Yeah, and I 483 00:33:45.940 --> 00:33:50.220 do want to mention here, because we talk about God, we bring God 484 00:33:50.259 --> 00:33:53.700 into the equation, and bringing scripture into view is really helpful. You know 485 00:33:53.779 --> 00:33:57.490 what the Bible says asking that question. Do you know what the Bible says 486 00:33:57.490 --> 00:34:00.089 about that? Yes, the Bible say about your baby? What does the 487 00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:04.210 Bible say about your struggles? What does the Bible say about the resources that 488 00:34:04.289 --> 00:34:07.210 God has available? And so bringing God into view, but also bring in 489 00:34:07.250 --> 00:34:12.599 scripture in, and I don't I think you should probably have your Bible. 490 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.239 That's one of the critiques I would give. Have Your Bible right there and 491 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:17.719 be able to point them to scripture. Yeah, it's hard to do again, 492 00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:21.800 especially if you're thumbing through your Bible and trying to find particular there's scriptures. 493 00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:23.909 We do have scriptures within the literature. The literature has scriptures there. 494 00:34:23.989 --> 00:34:29.670 Yeah, point too, but memorizing some scripture, even maybe having your Bible 495 00:34:29.710 --> 00:34:31.510 right there at the ready and whip it out and show him here's what the 496 00:34:31.510 --> 00:34:35.789 Bible says. I think it's sometimes is helpful, rather than just you repeating 497 00:34:35.829 --> 00:34:38.099 what the Scripture says, if you have the opportunity to open your Bible and 498 00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:42.820 show them here's what the Bible says. Would you be willing to read that? 499 00:34:43.059 --> 00:34:45.500 Get them to read something thirteen and fourteen or yeah, some of the 500 00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:52.340 other passages. They're really helpful. Yeah, and we do have some wonderful 501 00:34:52.380 --> 00:34:58.210 counselors who have actually put tabs in their Bible specifically for sidewalk counseling and you 502 00:34:58.369 --> 00:35:05.210 can get to those important scriptures right away. I have a poor vision with 503 00:35:05.929 --> 00:35:07.960 with a close I'd have to either bring a big, Big Bible and with 504 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:13.639 all the other stuff that I have I can't. But I do have memorized 505 00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:17.840 the the most key important scripture, which was really hard for me because I 506 00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:22.750 have a terrible memory. But I have memorized the the most important scripture, 507 00:35:22.989 --> 00:35:29.429 but I agree with you it is better to actually show them in a Bible 508 00:35:29.869 --> 00:35:34.070 to show I'm not just making this yeah, and and to flip to the 509 00:35:34.150 --> 00:35:38.059 page. There is power in in God's in God's word. Yeah, yeah, 510 00:35:38.059 --> 00:35:42.300 I know. So, just you guys can't see because obviously we're doing 511 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:46.099 audio, but we're going through actually just some points that we wanted to touch 512 00:35:46.219 --> 00:35:49.820 on in this flow of this mock session, and one of the points you 513 00:35:49.940 --> 00:35:55.250 have here is talking about God will forgive me all the time. Yes, 514 00:35:55.449 --> 00:36:00.329 say it all the time. Yeah, and she did say it. However, 515 00:36:00.369 --> 00:36:04.519 I that was one of the Cuz I'll make up myself. I did 516 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:08.519 not respond to it. Yeah, and I think I responded to something else 517 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:14.719 at that point. I heard it. Yeah, and typically what I will 518 00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:16.519 say when they say, well, God will just forgive me, I'll talk 519 00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:22.510 about why are you truly asking his forgiveness? Right, if what you're saying 520 00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:27.309 is I'm going to disregard what he says and I'm going to do it anyway. 521 00:36:27.309 --> 00:36:30.230 Yes, that asking forgiveness, or is that asking permission to sin? 522 00:36:30.510 --> 00:36:35.619 Right, you know, sometimes I will kind of ignore those statements because what 523 00:36:35.739 --> 00:36:37.699 I don't want to get into, and you again, you got to be 524 00:36:37.699 --> 00:36:40.179 led by the Holy Spirit, you got to read the situation best you can. 525 00:36:40.219 --> 00:36:44.699 But I don't want to get into a back and forth theologically. I 526 00:36:44.780 --> 00:36:47.289 don't want to have to give an apologetic for forgiveness and all this other stuff. 527 00:36:47.329 --> 00:36:50.889 We can talk about that at some point, but in front of the 528 00:36:50.929 --> 00:36:53.130 abortion center when that baby is about to die, I'm not going to get 529 00:36:53.170 --> 00:36:58.769 in some scriptural argument about forgiveness and all this other stuff with a mom that's 530 00:36:58.769 --> 00:37:00.760 going in to kill her child if I don't think that conversation is going to 531 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:06.119 be productive. I think, and that's a really good point, is when 532 00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:10.760 do you jump on those statements? And I think when it is the major 533 00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.679 thing they're counting on. They're banking on God's forgiveness. Yeah, you need 534 00:37:15.710 --> 00:37:19.429 to address it, but it wasn't with Maddie and that might have been why 535 00:37:19.550 --> 00:37:22.670 my instincts were not to jump on it at because with Maddie there were some 536 00:37:22.829 --> 00:37:27.949 other pretty significant things she was bringing up and I think forgiveness was one of 537 00:37:27.989 --> 00:37:31.579 the rationalizations, but I don't think it was what was the the thing that 538 00:37:31.699 --> 00:37:37.500 was allowing her to go forth right the abortion? Yeah, absolutely nothing. 539 00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:40.820 Again, bringing to view that child and I might give it an analogy or 540 00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:44.369 something like that. If a woman says, well, God'll forgive me. 541 00:37:44.409 --> 00:37:46.769 Yeah, and I might give the analogies, especially if I'm already kind of 542 00:37:46.849 --> 00:37:51.849 set that stage for will God loved you and knew you before you were born. 543 00:37:51.929 --> 00:37:54.289 He also loves and knows your child before they are born, your child 544 00:37:54.289 --> 00:37:58.530 that you carry right now. And so I might say something like if someone 545 00:37:58.570 --> 00:38:01.519 came up and just killed you and they say, well, God'll forgive me, 546 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.360 would that be okay? Is God just going to forgive that? As 547 00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.719 God okay with that? Because again, you're talking about killing a person and 548 00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:13.469 then using forgiveness as a justification to do that. Right, God is a 549 00:38:13.630 --> 00:38:16.789 forgiving God for those who repent, but those that do what I just describe 550 00:38:16.829 --> 00:38:22.510 to you or not really repentant. Right, yeah, exactly. So then 551 00:38:22.309 --> 00:38:29.260 we the conversation, spent a good bit of time talking about God. Then 552 00:38:29.420 --> 00:38:34.619 in the in the middle of this session with Maddie, at some just asking 553 00:38:34.780 --> 00:38:38.500 what she believed was Jesus Lord, what it means if Jesus is Lord, 554 00:38:38.900 --> 00:38:45.570 and then what would God have you do? And that question almost always is 555 00:38:45.809 --> 00:38:50.849 responded to exactly how Maddie responded with a pause. Yeah, kind of a 556 00:38:50.969 --> 00:38:55.400 deep sigh Ann and then, well, he wouldn't have me kill my baby. 557 00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:01.039 Almost always I've I don't know if I've ever had someone say God would 558 00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:05.000 would have me go forth and kill my baby. They'll say, well, 559 00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:09.510 God might forgive me or God will understand, but they know God would never 560 00:39:10.349 --> 00:39:15.510 say go kill your baby. Yeah. So I think of all the questions 561 00:39:15.550 --> 00:39:19.190 I ask, honestly, that to me is one of the most fruitful and 562 00:39:19.550 --> 00:39:22.190 one of the most most important. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, 563 00:39:22.190 --> 00:39:25.380 again bringing God into the conversation. What would he have you to do? 564 00:39:27.219 --> 00:39:30.739 Not just what do you what do you feel he's okay with you doing right, 565 00:39:30.940 --> 00:39:35.420 but if you directly heard from him, yeah, what would you hear? 566 00:39:35.699 --> 00:39:38.130 Yeah, life for death. Yeah, and so bringing that question to 567 00:39:38.210 --> 00:39:42.409 the forefront of their mind is really, really important. Yeah, I know 568 00:39:42.489 --> 00:39:45.730 you have here examine the relationship with the father, and I will bring that 569 00:39:46.130 --> 00:39:52.409 into the conversation where I'm talking about. Does the father of this baby know 570 00:39:52.570 --> 00:39:54.639 that you're here to be right and what does he think? Yeah, because 571 00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:59.280 I do know that if the man will step up and he say that he 572 00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:05.039 will support his child and this woman in keeping that baby more often than not 573 00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:07.750 she's going to choose to keep that job. Yeah, we had that happened 574 00:40:07.869 --> 00:40:12.389 just this week where there was a young man who is weeping. He came 575 00:40:12.469 --> 00:40:15.429 to US weeping, saying that he could he could not convince her. He 576 00:40:15.590 --> 00:40:19.230 didn't know what to say to her, but he did not want the baby 577 00:40:19.269 --> 00:40:22.940 to die. And she was in there and we told him exactly what you 578 00:40:23.059 --> 00:40:27.179 said, you know. We asked him, well, have you ever told 579 00:40:27.219 --> 00:40:30.260 her I love you, I love that child and I'll do whatever it takes 580 00:40:30.300 --> 00:40:31.980 to support you in that baby? And he said well, no, yeah, 581 00:40:32.059 --> 00:40:34.900 I said, well, call her right now and tell her that and 582 00:40:35.019 --> 00:40:40.090 she left. That she ended up leaving. So it is important to figure 583 00:40:40.130 --> 00:40:46.530 out what the father the baby is thinking and if the father the baby is 584 00:40:46.610 --> 00:40:51.639 not supportive, which is, like you mentioned and I think Maddie and the 585 00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:55.519 arm conversation said was the case. If the father's not supportive, then you 586 00:40:55.559 --> 00:41:01.679 can continue to ask more questions, and one of them that I often ask 587 00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:07.550 is if this person that you say you love is telling you that, despite 588 00:41:07.630 --> 00:41:13.030 your deep concerns about killing your own child, that he wants you to kill 589 00:41:13.070 --> 00:41:16.190 your child. Is that a person that you really want to be with. 590 00:41:16.349 --> 00:41:21.139 Yeah, and they often say no, right, and they often say that 591 00:41:21.219 --> 00:41:24.780 it makes them feel very bad. Yeah, that that the father told them 592 00:41:24.820 --> 00:41:28.219 to kill their baby, and that is, I think, what I did 593 00:41:28.539 --> 00:41:34.809 with with Maddie. But asking directly if there's a conflict in your heart. 594 00:41:34.889 --> 00:41:39.969 Sometimes we kind of avoid that, but I think sometimes direct questions. Is 595 00:41:40.090 --> 00:41:45.690 Their conflict? Are you feeling like you're not sure that you want to kill 596 00:41:45.730 --> 00:41:50.599 your baby? That's an important question. Yeah, because if there is conflict, 597 00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:53.800 then you can say, well, which voice do you think is? 598 00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:58.639 Is God speaking to you? Right, which part, which side of that 599 00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:01.110 conflict, is coming from God and which do you think is coming from the 600 00:42:01.150 --> 00:42:07.670 enemy of your soul, and help them identify the battle. Yeah, the 601 00:42:07.750 --> 00:42:10.469 spiritual battle that is raging. And Yeah, and your kind of, in 602 00:42:10.590 --> 00:42:15.389 that sense, doing what God says. He says, I set before you 603 00:42:15.510 --> 00:42:19.179 this day life and death, blessing and cursing therey. So you're kind of 604 00:42:19.219 --> 00:42:22.019 laying that out. Okay, let's just be real. Yeah, let's just 605 00:42:22.219 --> 00:42:25.739 boil this thing tell to down to its most basic element. Yeah, God, 606 00:42:25.980 --> 00:42:30.409 is it before you life and death. Right, is there conflict in 607 00:42:30.449 --> 00:42:34.090 your heart between those two? And if so, and they're always is. 608 00:42:34.769 --> 00:42:37.730 Yes, which one is the right thing to choose? That's right. Life 609 00:42:37.769 --> 00:42:42.010 for death. Yeah, because, honestly, that's not how they have framed 610 00:42:42.130 --> 00:42:46.960 the conflict. Course, they have framed the conflict life of the baby versus 611 00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.039 all this struggle I'm going to face. Yeah, as opposed to boiling it 612 00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:58.480 down to truly what is the root conflict? Life of the baby versus death 613 00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.710 of the baby. Yeah, obeying and following God versus rebelling and denying God's 614 00:43:02.750 --> 00:43:07.150 clear word. And when you boil it down to the root issue, then 615 00:43:07.150 --> 00:43:13.420 they have to really deal with what they are doing in terms of God and 616 00:43:13.780 --> 00:43:16.619 what God says. Absolutely, and that's a mean yeah, that's key in 617 00:43:16.940 --> 00:43:21.980 again, it gives it gives the Holy Spirit the ability to move like you're 618 00:43:22.019 --> 00:43:25.139 I mean, he's already obviously already moving, but you want to give space 619 00:43:25.179 --> 00:43:28.570 for the Holy Spirit to speak to their hearts. Yes, as you can 620 00:43:28.570 --> 00:43:30.650 say a lot of stuff, you can use a lot of good techniques and 621 00:43:30.730 --> 00:43:34.849 all of that, and you know we should employ good techniques, but at 622 00:43:34.849 --> 00:43:37.809 the end of the day, the Holy Spirit is the one that has to 623 00:43:37.889 --> 00:43:40.880 convict them and convince them that what they're doing is wrong in killing their child 624 00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:44.880 and that they need to trust the Lord. Yeah, and so we've got 625 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:49.119 again make ourselves a condoment for the Holy Spirit to speak to them. Yeah, 626 00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:52.079 give him space to speak to their hearts and, you know, I 627 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:57.429 trust that, as we do, that God's God's going to do something right. 628 00:43:57.469 --> 00:44:02.630 Yeah, it also helps you to remain calm through and and I think 629 00:44:02.710 --> 00:44:07.670 that is absolutely critical. Yeah, that you remain calm through the whole discussion, 630 00:44:07.789 --> 00:44:13.219 not frantic, if you are truly trusting it's up to God. Yeah, 631 00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:15.900 bottom line, it's up to God, in the Holy Spirit and this 632 00:44:15.059 --> 00:44:17.780 woman, not me. I can do my best, I will do my 633 00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:23.219 best, but it's not up to me how it's going to end. It's 634 00:44:23.260 --> 00:44:27.650 right to God. That allows you, I think, to stay calm, 635 00:44:27.690 --> 00:44:31.090 yeah, through the discussion. Absolutely, yeah, realizing that the results are 636 00:44:31.090 --> 00:44:34.610 up to the Lord. Right, but doesn't mean that we're just passive, 637 00:44:34.650 --> 00:44:37.880 right, right, we're we're not passive when we're trying to flag people down, 638 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:40.079 get them to stop and talk with us, and we're not passive when 639 00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:45.960 we're speaking the truth of God. We're kind of like we're actively surrendered to 640 00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:50.599 the Holy Spirit and actively acknowledge that it's the Holy Spirit that's doing the work. 641 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.269 We're just there to plant seeds, we're there to water seeds, but 642 00:44:53.389 --> 00:44:57.630 God gives the increase. Yeah, and that really does take the pressure off 643 00:44:57.670 --> 00:45:00.110 of us. It does, since I want to encourage you guys with especially 644 00:45:00.230 --> 00:45:04.269 folks that are new and you're maybe feeling all this pressure of I want to 645 00:45:04.309 --> 00:45:07.659 say the right thing at the right time, and all of this was in 646 00:45:07.699 --> 00:45:10.619 the pressure is off. We've just got to be condoents for the Holy Spirit. 647 00:45:10.699 --> 00:45:14.579 Make ourselves available. You're going to mess up, you're going to say 648 00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:19.099 things that you maybe shouldn't up said. You're going to, I don't know, 649 00:45:19.340 --> 00:45:22.690 maybe forget to say things that you should have said. Or that's going 650 00:45:22.769 --> 00:45:25.050 to happen. Happens to me, it happens to you. Yeah, right, 651 00:45:25.130 --> 00:45:28.409 viggy. There's things that you should have said, we would have said 652 00:45:28.409 --> 00:45:30.809 or whatever. Yeah, you can never say everything perfectly. You can never 653 00:45:30.889 --> 00:45:35.719 say everything that needs to be said. You're just making yourselves available to the 654 00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:38.639 Holy Spirit and letting him speak through you and leaving the results up to the 655 00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:44.079 Lord. And Yeah, yeah, can change their hearts if they harden their 656 00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:47.599 hearts. That's between them and God. Right, and and something that I 657 00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:53.389 think new counselors are less hesitant to do. But is important is kind of 658 00:45:54.670 --> 00:46:00.429 give the final course of action. And in the case of the discussion with 659 00:46:00.510 --> 00:46:04.780 Maddie, it was all right. You know, we've talked about all these 660 00:46:04.820 --> 00:46:08.059 issues. Now, are you ready? Will you go on the ultra sound 661 00:46:08.059 --> 00:46:10.900 and look at your baby speeding heart? Yeah, and and she said she 662 00:46:12.139 --> 00:46:17.460 would surprise. Surprise. Yeah, exactly. But uh, but it's the 663 00:46:17.539 --> 00:46:22.050 same. And Sharing The Gospel sometimes where hesitant. We lay it all out 664 00:46:22.050 --> 00:46:24.610 there and then we don't want to give an invitation because we're afraid will lose. 665 00:46:24.929 --> 00:46:29.130 They'll say no. Yeah, but if you don't give the invitation, 666 00:46:29.210 --> 00:46:32.719 they also can't say yes. Right. So that's true in sharing the Gospel 667 00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:37.199 at I believe, and it and it's true in a discussion with them. 668 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:42.320 Give them the positive thing, invite them to the positive thing they need to 669 00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:45.920 do. Now, can I set up an appointment right now for you for 670 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:50.230 an ultra sound it? Can I sign you up for the mentorship program something 671 00:46:50.630 --> 00:46:54.349 that is can I schedule, you know, D Altra Sound, which we 672 00:46:54.469 --> 00:47:00.550 actually provide here in Charlotte, but something that is the positive choice for life, 673 00:47:00.909 --> 00:47:06.099 at least a step away from the abortion center and into that positive choice 674 00:47:06.500 --> 00:47:08.980 is really important. Yeah, that's what it is powerful for us to be 675 00:47:09.019 --> 00:47:12.940 able to point directly to the RV and say, would you just go on 676 00:47:13.019 --> 00:47:15.769 board that RV right there? Would you go on board that mobiltra sound unit 677 00:47:15.849 --> 00:47:20.250 and see your baby right and if you've got a pregnancy center, maybe you 678 00:47:20.250 --> 00:47:23.849 don't have a mobile unit right there. Maybe there's a pregnancy center ten fifteen 679 00:47:23.849 --> 00:47:28.289 minutes down the road. That's that's another thing. Would you go? Would 680 00:47:28.289 --> 00:47:30.599 just let me make you an appointment? I'll call them up right now, 681 00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:34.920 or here's the directions. Go over there and just see them. Or, 682 00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:38.360 like you said, maybe ceiling at you again, for lack of a better 683 00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:42.320 term. Sealing the deal. Yeah, I'll see the deal in prayer. 684 00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:44.750 Can I just pray for you? Yeah, can I just pray for you, 685 00:47:45.269 --> 00:47:47.590 and then I'll be praying not just for them, I'm bring at them. 686 00:47:47.710 --> 00:47:50.869 Lord, help them to see the value of their baby. Help them 687 00:47:50.869 --> 00:47:52.590 to see that going inside of that place is not where you would have them 688 00:47:52.630 --> 00:47:55.909 to go. So there does come a point where you need to wrap up 689 00:47:55.909 --> 00:48:01.420 the conversation. Yeah, you can just going endlessly and gives nowhere. And 690 00:48:01.500 --> 00:48:06.659 now I think ultimately laying that choice between life and death out for them. 691 00:48:07.699 --> 00:48:10.340 Again, it's between them and the Lord. But it is helpful to have 692 00:48:10.579 --> 00:48:14.889 a place for them, an alternative for them to go to rather than going 693 00:48:15.010 --> 00:48:16.889 into the abortion center. And that could be let's say you don't have a 694 00:48:16.969 --> 00:48:21.250 pregnancy center, let's say you don't have a mobile unit there. You don't 695 00:48:21.250 --> 00:48:24.449 really have a place to send them take them for coffee. So would you 696 00:48:24.489 --> 00:48:28.880 be willing to just to turn around, just follow me up here to McDonald's 697 00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:30.559 and will have coffee? Yeah, just get them awake, them away from 698 00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:34.960 there. Could be that. I could you guys be creative, some some 699 00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:38.079 thing to get them away from there. Yeah, because we know that that 700 00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:45.230 place has a just demonic drawl to it, right, and they even, 701 00:48:45.309 --> 00:48:51.469 like intentionally, the abortion centers will call these women who are maybe talking to 702 00:48:51.510 --> 00:48:53.590 you out in the road or wherever they're late for their appointment. Right at 703 00:48:53.590 --> 00:48:57.019 right. That happened. Yeah, at that having get them to come on 704 00:48:57.139 --> 00:49:00.579 in. So getting them away from there I think is important. Right, 705 00:49:00.619 --> 00:49:07.340 right. And in terms of a long sharing of the Gospel, almost never 706 00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:12.969 do I do that. Car Side. I will introduce the Gospel, but 707 00:49:13.090 --> 00:49:16.809 in terms of a full sharing of the Gospel. If they're willing to hear 708 00:49:16.889 --> 00:49:21.929 it and there's still they're still sounding abortion determined to, then I will. 709 00:49:22.010 --> 00:49:24.320 But in Maddie's case I didn't by knew I was going to have time. 710 00:49:24.679 --> 00:49:28.960 Yeah, you know, with with her on the RV. Right. So, 711 00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:32.199 so let's look at some of the things real quick as we're sort of 712 00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:37.000 wrapping up this episode that you did. Right, we've done some critique just 713 00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:43.989 through this so far, but let's give some positive critique first and then we'll 714 00:49:44.030 --> 00:49:47.389 do the negative critique, which the positive is a much longer list, right, 715 00:49:49.590 --> 00:49:55.099 actually know I is. Actually. So. The first thing is the 716 00:49:55.219 --> 00:50:00.940 gentle tone and we talked a about being gentle, having a gentle tone. 717 00:50:01.340 --> 00:50:06.219 Gander loves you to say the tone sets the tone. Yep, your tone 718 00:50:06.219 --> 00:50:07.690 will set the tone. That's right. So if you come across as like, 719 00:50:08.570 --> 00:50:15.130 you know, angry, demanding, accusatory, then the conversation is probably 720 00:50:15.130 --> 00:50:16.489 not going to go very far, right. But if you have an inviting 721 00:50:16.570 --> 00:50:20.570 tone, if you have a gentle tone, if you have an approachable tone, 722 00:50:21.170 --> 00:50:22.760 people are going to be more apt to engage with you in conversation. 723 00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:30.239 Yeah, so you did present the three talking points that we talked about. 724 00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:32.559 You went through those as are woven through the whole conversation, right, which 725 00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:36.949 God resources, humanity of the baby? Yeah, right, and then, 726 00:50:36.989 --> 00:50:39.590 of course you brought God into the discussion. Who can help but bring the 727 00:50:39.710 --> 00:50:44.110 Lord into the discussion, right? I mean that's ultimately he's the one they're 728 00:50:44.110 --> 00:50:46.510 accountable to and he's the one that made that baby and he's the reason why 729 00:50:46.550 --> 00:50:51.260 we're out there ourselves, right, even if they're atheist. Yeah, we 730 00:50:51.380 --> 00:50:54.059 always do try to weave got into the discussion. Yeah, and you know, 731 00:50:54.300 --> 00:51:00.420 we've talked about this before where I've said basically, if you ask me 732 00:51:00.539 --> 00:51:05.809 not to talk about God, it's kind of be an impossibility for me because 733 00:51:06.210 --> 00:51:08.090 I love him, the reason I'm here. He's a reason about it. 734 00:51:08.250 --> 00:51:13.210 Right. So if I do have an atheist that I'm talking to and they 735 00:51:13.250 --> 00:51:15.730 say you just not talk about religion, talk about God, I'll say, 736 00:51:15.769 --> 00:51:20.480 you know, my response normally is I'll do the best. I cannot just 737 00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:23.679 kind of I'm not trying to ram religion down your throat. Listen, I 738 00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:28.239 love the Lord, I believe in Him. He loves you. I'm gonna 739 00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:30.519 have a hard time not talking about him. He's like the reason I'm here, 740 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:34.909 and that says volumes right there. Yeah, and so, yeah, 741 00:51:34.909 --> 00:51:37.789 I'm not just trying to be purposefully offensive. When they say don't talk about 742 00:51:37.789 --> 00:51:43.469 God, just, you know, start intentionally just quote and scripture to him 743 00:51:43.469 --> 00:51:45.510 or something like that. But it's not like that can help it. Right, 744 00:51:45.510 --> 00:51:47.059 I'm going to quote scripture, I'm going to talk about the Lord. 745 00:51:49.780 --> 00:51:53.099 But yeah, I mean you did that awesome and you ask some questions. 746 00:51:53.179 --> 00:51:59.019 Yeah, you got to ask questions, right, and again, listening for 747 00:51:59.059 --> 00:52:01.050 the answers and all that engaging. This is this is supposed to be a 748 00:52:01.289 --> 00:52:07.289 conversation. Yeah, a discussion, a dialog, and you're again you your 749 00:52:07.369 --> 00:52:10.730 relationship building, you're trying to build trust with them, you're trying to tear 750 00:52:10.809 --> 00:52:15.079 down those walls. You're trying to bring the Lord into the equation. But 751 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:20.000 God, God uses people, Right. Yeah, and so you're trying to 752 00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:24.280 make yourself a person that God is using in that discussion. And you know, 753 00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:28.480 look at Jesus, look at at the life of Jesus. He asks 754 00:52:28.599 --> 00:52:31.869 questions, right, he's engaging into us, questions and told stories. That 755 00:52:31.949 --> 00:52:37.429 was Jesus is main way of convicting people. He would ask questions and tell 756 00:52:37.909 --> 00:52:43.309 the parables. So we should use that that. He's our model. So 757 00:52:43.469 --> 00:52:45.739 when we can, we should use those, those techniques. Yeah, yeah, 758 00:52:45.900 --> 00:52:52.340 and then, just as by the way of some maybe negative criticism, 759 00:52:52.420 --> 00:52:54.260 I don't know, critique, critique, Tique, way said, we can 760 00:52:54.300 --> 00:52:59.409 improve. Yeah, right, you never asked her name. Right, I 761 00:52:59.449 --> 00:53:02.170 knew already talked about that, but she knew it already. Right, and 762 00:53:02.449 --> 00:53:06.210 we already talked about that. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't write, 763 00:53:07.489 --> 00:53:09.409 and you didn't really focus on the God will forgive me thing, which we've 764 00:53:09.409 --> 00:53:13.400 already talked about that too. Sometimes, again, you focus on that. 765 00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:17.039 Sometimes you need to focus on that and sometimes you just again, we're not 766 00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:22.400 out there to have some back and forth theological discussion with a woman going into 767 00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:23.800 the abortion center. We're out there to try to convince her not to kill 768 00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:30.789 her child, not to talk about all the other theological things. I mean, 769 00:53:30.829 --> 00:53:34.750 I've had conversations with women in front of the abortion center and into a 770 00:53:34.829 --> 00:53:39.070 fault because really I should not have taken the bait where they're talking about the 771 00:53:39.190 --> 00:53:43.179 doctrine of once saved, always saved or something like that, and they want 772 00:53:43.179 --> 00:53:45.500 to go about how, you know, because they were saved when they're years 773 00:53:45.500 --> 00:53:49.460 old, they're Christian and they can ever lose their salvation so they can go 774 00:53:49.539 --> 00:53:52.500 kill their baby, right. And so I've fallen into the trap of want 775 00:53:52.500 --> 00:53:57.010 to explain certain here's what the scripture actually says and here's what the Bible says, 776 00:53:57.050 --> 00:54:00.369 and trying to tear down that false understanding of salvation and all of that. 777 00:54:00.730 --> 00:54:04.329 Yeah, it really went nowhere, because all they want to do is 778 00:54:04.409 --> 00:54:07.409 argue, and so the best thing to do when you perceive that they're just 779 00:54:07.489 --> 00:54:10.639 want to argue with you, is just ignore that and continue in with really 780 00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:14.400 why they're they're they're there to take the life of their baby. Yeah, 781 00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:19.440 and you know, beyond that, I don't really have a lot of other 782 00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:23.000 criticism. I thought the conversation went excellently. I feel like we need to 783 00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:27.070 do more of those sort of things as mock sessions. I really think they 784 00:54:27.110 --> 00:54:30.750 are equipping for people and again, me just listening through it myself, I 785 00:54:30.670 --> 00:54:35.469 was I was like encourage an impact and I'm like man, this is this 786 00:54:35.670 --> 00:54:38.900 is really equipping. Yeah, I agree. I think that role playing and 787 00:54:39.059 --> 00:54:42.820 for all of you, if you're new out there, just getting a friend 788 00:54:42.940 --> 00:54:45.940 to sit and do a similar sort of thing and tell them be tough on 789 00:54:45.059 --> 00:54:49.460 me, have them throw I told Maddie, don't be tough on me, 790 00:54:49.539 --> 00:54:52.809 I'm going to be filmed. But but if you can get someone who's, 791 00:54:52.849 --> 00:54:57.170 who is at least a little bit knowledgeable about, yeah, what what you 792 00:54:57.210 --> 00:55:00.849 might face, and having them really give you the tough responses, if you've 793 00:55:00.889 --> 00:55:04.570 practiced it, it is helpful. The Holy Spirit will take over in the 794 00:55:04.650 --> 00:55:09.639 real situation and sometimes, like I know I've told this story before where the 795 00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:14.679 first person I counseled, when she came over to talk with me, I 796 00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:17.920 had just no experience, I had no idea what to say and I all 797 00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:22.389 I did was hold out a little baby model and started crying. Yeah, 798 00:55:22.429 --> 00:55:27.110 and that woman chose life. So just know that you you will be. 799 00:55:27.349 --> 00:55:30.829 The Holy Spirit is there right with you, but it does help if you 800 00:55:30.909 --> 00:55:35.630 can be prepared. It does help your confidence absolutely. Yeah. Well, 801 00:55:35.710 --> 00:55:37.900 guys, we hope this was a blessing to you and we do encourage you 802 00:55:37.940 --> 00:55:40.340 to reach out to us. Reach out to me, Daniel at Love Life 803 00:55:40.380 --> 00:55:44.059 Dot Org. You reach out to her, Vicky at Love Life Dot Org. 804 00:55:44.420 --> 00:55:47.659 If you have suggestions for future podcast episodes, we'd love to cover those. 805 00:55:47.699 --> 00:55:52.050 Those subjects if we feel like they would be a blessing. As we 806 00:55:52.130 --> 00:55:55.809 said in the beginning of this please share this podcast with others and with that, 807 00:55:57.010 --> 00:56:05.679 we hope you have a blessed day. God bless our love for love. 808 00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:16.880 Give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my 809 00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:24.590 life. Nothing's too precious in some you