Critiquing A Sidewalk Mock Session

WEBVTT100:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.759I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me.200:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.869Lord, Welcome to the Gospel Centerpro life podcast. As in a300:00:09.949 --> 00:00:13.349previous episode, in this episode we'regoing to play for you a mock sidewalk400:00:13.429 --> 00:00:16.670counseling session and then we're going totalk through some of the principles in this500:00:16.829 --> 00:00:24.379session that will help equip you todo subwalll counsel stay too, I felt600:00:24.820 --> 00:00:36.250show passish, touch your heart.Use. Welcome to the Gospel centered pro700:00:36.409 --> 00:00:40.210life podcast. Appreciate you guys joiningus and, as always, we encourage800:00:40.210 --> 00:00:43.570you guys to share this podcast reachout to other folks who you think will900:00:43.609 --> 00:00:47.289be blessed by this episode of thepodcast and just the podcast in general.1000:00:47.890 --> 00:00:53.520We produce a lot of episodes reallyfocused on sidewalk out reach and focused on1100:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.840the ministry in front of abortion centers, but other other aspects of ministry as1200:00:57.880 --> 00:01:02.960well. But we think that theseare encouragement. We put up a little1300:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.230bit of energy into these podcast andI think we put a lot into it,1400:01:06.269 --> 00:01:10.390a lot of thought, a lotof prayer, and I think this1500:01:10.510 --> 00:01:14.670episode will be no different. Asyou know, past episodes we've gotten a1600:01:14.709 --> 00:01:19.099lot of good feedback, especially theepisode we did a couple of weeks ago.1700:01:19.500 --> 00:01:23.420That was basically you and I,Vicky, doing a mock session,1800:01:23.420 --> 00:01:26.620yeah, of sidewalk counseling, kindof going back and forth. A lot1900:01:26.659 --> 00:01:30.379of people were blessed by that.So we're we're going to go on that2000:01:30.500 --> 00:01:36.730same vein with this episode and actuallyplay for you guys a mock session of2100:01:36.890 --> 00:01:42.450Vicky and one of our local sidewalkcounselors here, Maddie, and they did2200:01:42.530 --> 00:01:45.530this actually in front of the abortioncenter. We set up a camera and2300:01:45.609 --> 00:01:49.159we did this actually for training purposes. We had kind of have this woven2400:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.120in to our one hundred and onetraining where we look at this, this2500:01:52.959 --> 00:01:57.200conversation that you and Maddie have,and and we say, Hey, this2600:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.079is this is a good model forconversation with a mom. And Maddie said2700:02:00.319 --> 00:02:02.750herself she was kind of scared.We kind of sprung it on her at2800:02:02.750 --> 00:02:07.069the last minute. Can you dothis? And I think the Lord used2900:02:07.109 --> 00:02:09.550that really because the mom's that youencounter at the abortion center, they're scared3000:02:09.710 --> 00:02:13.509right, hey, it is.It was actually very realistic. I really3100:02:13.550 --> 00:02:16.180felt like I was counseling a mom. I kind of lost sight of the3200:02:16.259 --> 00:02:21.020fact that I was doing a trainingvideo. It felt like a real counseling3300:02:21.060 --> 00:02:23.699session because we hadn't rehearsed it,we hadn't practiced it. They just a3400:02:23.780 --> 00:02:30.530general idea of what the common obstacleswere that that Maddie was pretending to face.3500:02:30.569 --> 00:02:32.770Yeah, and then how I wouldcounsel. Yeah, I mean really,3600:02:34.129 --> 00:02:37.409she did an amazing she job.When I watch the video, just3700:02:37.490 --> 00:02:39.210kind of editing through it, whichI didn't really edit anything out of it.3800:02:39.490 --> 00:02:44.879Yeah, I was like wow,she she really has she's been out3900:02:44.919 --> 00:02:46.639there a lot. Yeah, that'sevident. So she knows some of the4000:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.759things that the women say right thatare going into the abortion center, and4100:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.039I think she really conveyed some ofthe things that we experience out there on4200:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.469the sidewalk. I'm out halfway throughit. I was almostconvanced. Okay,4300:03:00.590 --> 00:03:04.509is Maddie considering an abortion? Maybesomething. It's he did a really good4400:03:04.550 --> 00:03:07.389job. Yeah. So we're goingto play that for you guys, and4500:03:07.430 --> 00:03:09.789then we're going to come back andwe're going to kind of critique that.4600:03:10.590 --> 00:03:14.659We're going to say, Hey,what what good with this mock session?4700:03:14.939 --> 00:03:17.539What could have gone gone better?And we're going to do it to help4800:03:17.860 --> 00:03:21.900train and equip you guys, helpsencourage you, guess. Yeah, and4900:03:22.139 --> 00:03:24.659also do just put out there thatwe know we're not perfect. Vicki is5000:03:24.740 --> 00:03:30.090probably, I've told people, thebest sidewalk counselor that it has ever existed5100:03:30.169 --> 00:03:36.250in the history forever. And yetVicky doesn't implement things perfectly right. So5200:03:36.370 --> 00:03:39.889we're going to make Vicki feel reallybad by taking we just had an episode,5300:03:39.930 --> 00:03:44.520what was our last episode, aboutdealing with dealing with Criticisi is that's5400:03:44.520 --> 00:03:46.120the way say. Know how todeal with it now. Yeah, I5500:03:46.199 --> 00:03:49.439can handle it, whatever you throwat me. It's all right. That's5600:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.800right. So we're going to criticizeVicki and really what we're going to find5700:03:53.919 --> 00:03:58.590is that Vicki did a phenomenal joband the Maddie did a phenomenal job and5800:03:59.229 --> 00:04:03.189you guys are going to be blessedjust to listen through this mock sidewalk counseling5900:04:03.310 --> 00:04:10.379session. He there, my nameis Vicki. My Name and numbers on6000:04:10.460 --> 00:04:14.180the back of this information. Areyou headed to the women's Center here?6100:04:14.539 --> 00:04:18.699Yeah, do you know how farlong you are? Um, I think6200:04:18.779 --> 00:04:21.899about seven weeks. That's seven weeks. Okay, you know it's seven weeks6300:04:23.060 --> 00:04:28.129that your child already has a beatinghard and even has detectable brain waves.6400:04:28.490 --> 00:04:32.250So we're here offering hope and helpreally, no matter what your situation is.6500:04:32.410 --> 00:04:35.649But but tell me what, whatis like? The main reason that6600:04:35.730 --> 00:04:40.680you feel like you need to comeand think about a boarding your child?6700:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.600Well, I feel like there's alot of reasons, but I just don't6800:04:44.680 --> 00:04:46.560have enough money. I don't havewhat I need. Okay, you don't6900:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.920have enough money. All right,well, so, enough money. Who7000:04:50.120 --> 00:04:54.829you know what? Honestly, Ithink that probably every mother who's about to7100:04:54.870 --> 00:04:58.069have a child really feel that way. I know I did. There's just7200:04:58.269 --> 00:05:01.149really never enough money and the thingsthat a baby needs. Is Is this7300:05:01.389 --> 00:05:05.709first child? Actually it's not.I have a seven month Oho. Okay,7400:05:05.829 --> 00:05:09.420so you guys seven month old.Is that one of the other reasons?7500:05:09.579 --> 00:05:13.740Okay, so a couple things here, for first of all, that7600:05:14.500 --> 00:05:16.819you know, yeah, those babiesare close together, and that's probably really7700:05:16.939 --> 00:05:20.180you're probably struggling even just thinking howam I going to take care of the7800:05:20.300 --> 00:05:25.050one and take care of the other? But but first of all, just7900:05:25.209 --> 00:05:29.689in terms of having enough money,we come with all kinds of resources that8000:05:29.889 --> 00:05:33.930can help, even including a mentorshipprogram where we can have a mom that'll8100:05:34.370 --> 00:05:38.600been through this. We try toconnect you with people who are in the8200:05:38.680 --> 00:05:44.959same situation as you've been that canwalk walk through this with you. But8300:05:45.319 --> 00:05:48.160also they provide a baby shower thatwill give like two full years of what8400:05:48.240 --> 00:05:53.709your child will need, and andwe have local pregnancy resource centers that will8500:05:53.750 --> 00:05:58.750actually provide a lot of the needsof your child. One of the other8600:05:58.870 --> 00:06:01.790things is just when you're thinking aboutnot having enough money, sometimes you forget8700:06:01.829 --> 00:06:05.779about some of the ways that thatyou can save money. Like, for8800:06:05.860 --> 00:06:09.540example, there's the WIG program Idon't know if you know about that,8900:06:09.740 --> 00:06:14.139but where you know you can getformula and supplies for your child for free.9000:06:14.660 --> 00:06:19.129There's food pantries and every everywhere thatyou save money in one place you9100:06:19.209 --> 00:06:24.250know can go towards the money thatyou might need towards rent or something else.9200:06:24.649 --> 00:06:30.129But the second thing that you saidis your babies are really close together,9300:06:30.329 --> 00:06:32.279and I get that. How so, your other one is seven months9400:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.040old. You said, yeah,seven months old, and this one is9500:06:35.399 --> 00:06:40.360is six weeks in the womb.But you know the love of a child,9600:06:40.680 --> 00:06:44.439right. You got that seven monthold. And would you send that9700:06:44.560 --> 00:06:47.069seven month old back? Oh,absolutely, absolutely not. So so you9800:06:47.350 --> 00:06:53.629love that child and I guarantee youthat that you bring the baby in your9900:06:53.750 --> 00:06:59.670womb to term, you will havethat same love for for that little baby.10000:07:00.310 --> 00:07:04.060But I know they're close together.I know you probably are feeling already10100:07:04.100 --> 00:07:08.980overwhelmed. I mean a seven monthold is is. They're busy and it's10200:07:09.060 --> 00:07:13.259and I I don't get like sleepand like what work and stuff is just10300:07:13.500 --> 00:07:16.329it just seems like not manageable tohave an eight. Yeah, yes,10400:07:16.449 --> 00:07:21.689let me ask you. When doyou think that that little baby in your10500:07:21.930 --> 00:07:29.170womb became a baby? Is ita baby? I don't know, I10600:07:29.329 --> 00:07:33.680guess I don't really know. Iguess I just feel like it's not a10700:07:33.920 --> 00:07:38.160real baby until it's born. Okay. And and is that how you felt10800:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.600about your other baby? I guess. So, okay, not until that10900:07:42.759 --> 00:07:46.110baby is born. So a minutebefore that child's birth, you didn't really11000:07:46.149 --> 00:07:48.990feel that that was a baby.Well, I guess I just feel that,11100:07:49.310 --> 00:07:55.149because it was detached to me,that it wasn't actually a baby.11200:07:55.310 --> 00:07:59.259Okay itself. Okay, so rightnow, that seven month old, if11300:07:59.300 --> 00:08:03.860you put that seven month old inher crib and left the room for three11400:08:03.899 --> 00:08:11.019weeks with that seven month old bealive when you came back? Mm Not,11500:08:11.139 --> 00:08:13.089unless so, right, right.So someone, someone, it is11600:08:13.730 --> 00:08:18.490all of us are dependent for forquite some time period as a human being.11700:08:18.529 --> 00:08:20.610And that's kind of what you're saying, that that's some that little baby11800:08:20.689 --> 00:08:24.329inside your womb is attached to you. Well, in a sense, so11900:08:24.569 --> 00:08:26.839is your seven month old. Butlet me ask you. Do you believe12000:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.639in God? Yeah, yeah,I believe in God. Okay. Do12100:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.639you believe in Jesus? HMM,yeah, okay, okay, it is.12200:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.360He your Lord. Do you thinkof him as Lord? I mean,12300:08:37.399 --> 00:08:41.159I guess so. Hey, he'sLord. Okay. So what do12400:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.629you think that God would have youdo? Because that little baby in God's12500:08:46.629 --> 00:08:52.470eyes, the Bible says that thatbaby is the same as a born baby.12600:08:52.629 --> 00:08:54.590God uses the same word. Bad, folks, is the word and12700:08:54.629 --> 00:08:58.299the New Testament for a born babyin an UN born baby. And you12800:08:58.460 --> 00:09:03.500probably know the six commandment if youknow your Bible at all. But the12900:09:05.620 --> 00:09:07.860that, I don't know what all. The top of the six commandment is13000:09:07.179 --> 00:09:11.370thou shall not murder, and andmurders a word that is reserved for human13100:09:11.409 --> 00:09:16.049beings. Is that baby human inyour womb? I guess. I guess.13200:09:16.129 --> 00:09:18.649I'm yeah, not like a crocodileor anything. Right, right,13300:09:18.730 --> 00:09:22.610it is a human being. Yeah, when do you think it became a13400:09:22.690 --> 00:09:28.919human being? I guess it's alwaysbeen a human right. Yeah, yeah,13500:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.159it's that is logical from the momentof conception. And so the Bible13600:09:33.279 --> 00:09:35.320tells us, Jesus tells us,that we are to obey the commandment.13700:09:35.639 --> 00:09:37.909And in fact he says, whydo you call me Lord, Lord and13800:09:39.070 --> 00:09:41.909not do what I say? Sohe wants us to obey the commandment.13900:09:41.509 --> 00:09:46.909One of those commandments is thou shallnot murder. So you've got two babies14000:09:46.110 --> 00:09:50.669close together, one born, oneunborn, and and you're feeling really,14100:09:50.710 --> 00:09:56.779really overwhelmed. But Um, butis that a reason to kill one you,14200:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.460I assume you would not go andkill your seven month old. No,14300:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.620what I just I just feel thatif God is loving, then he'll14400:10:05.100 --> 00:10:09.330forgive me. I don't feel likethis is something God wants me to do14500:10:09.649 --> 00:10:16.090necessarily. So do you think thatGod made a mistake? No, but14600:10:16.409 --> 00:10:20.289maybe I did. Okay, whocreated life? Who Creates all life?14700:10:20.330 --> 00:10:24.879God? God. So, ifGod doesn't make mistakes and God's the creator14800:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.840of life, than that child.I old is not a mistake, logically14900:10:28.879 --> 00:10:33.440right. That child is a life. That child is a beating hard,15000:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.549you know, up brain waves atsix weeks, already arms, legs ahead,15100:10:37.590 --> 00:10:43.230a spine beginning, fingers and toes, every organ. In the next15200:10:43.389 --> 00:10:46.590week of this child's life in yourroomb, every organ will be in place.15300:10:48.470 --> 00:10:52.460So if God doesn't make mistakes andif he's the creator of life and15400:10:52.580 --> 00:10:58.580he says I shall not murder,he's kind of giving you really what he15500:10:58.740 --> 00:11:03.139would have you do. Right,what do you think that God would have15600:11:03.330 --> 00:11:07.169you do? He would have meto keep baby. Would have you keep15700:11:07.210 --> 00:11:11.690that baby? Right? How isdoes the dad know about this child?15800:11:11.690 --> 00:11:16.929Yeah, he basically said that ifI don't have an abortion, then he's15900:11:16.929 --> 00:11:20.759leaving. So so he's kind ofcoursing you, he is pressuring you,16000:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.240Din he's kicking you out. Okay, so first of all, you do16100:11:24.480 --> 00:11:26.960know, or maybe you don't know, but coercion is illegal. That that16200:11:28.399 --> 00:11:31.360he should not do that. Itis against the law for someone to commerce16300:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.309someone to a board. But didyou know that most couples, I think16400:11:35.470 --> 00:11:39.070the percentage in the the last articleI read was sixty seven percent of couples16500:11:39.509 --> 00:11:46.779who have abortion in their history togetherand up separating anyway. But I also16600:11:46.820 --> 00:11:52.659want you to ask yourself, thisman is asking you to kill the child16700:11:54.100 --> 00:11:58.899you and he conceived together. Isthat someone you really want to be with?16800:12:00.419 --> 00:12:03.570I mean we've just if it's justwe've been together for so long and16900:12:03.490 --> 00:12:07.570he I live with him and,yeah, I don't want things to end17000:12:07.730 --> 00:12:13.850thought way. Yeah, remember that. The the man is probably as scared17100:12:13.090 --> 00:12:18.960and shocked as you were when youfirst saw that pregnancy test. And some17200:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.440men do come around. But Ithink it's so important to think about if17300:12:22.519 --> 00:12:28.000a father is asking a mother killour child, what does that say about17400:12:30.389 --> 00:12:37.149his love and care for you?Right, yeah, so, is there17500:12:37.190 --> 00:12:45.980any any conflict in your heart abouttaking that child's life? Yes, m17600:12:46.539 --> 00:12:50.179yeah, well, let me letme tell you. We have many resources17700:12:50.299 --> 00:12:54.100that can help you. Right overthere, we have a mobile ultrasound unit17800:12:54.100 --> 00:12:56.940and we can take you on rightaway and show your baby's beating heart.17900:12:56.940 --> 00:13:00.850Would you be willing to continue totalk with me on there and I'll share18000:13:00.929 --> 00:13:07.610more resources and we'll talk about somevery concrete solutions for some of these issues18100:13:07.690 --> 00:13:09.289say you face. That be okay, yeah, I think I would like18200:13:09.370 --> 00:13:13.039that. Great. All Right,I'll take you over there right now.18300:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.720Thank you. All right. Well, we're back. We hope that was18400:13:18.759 --> 00:13:24.240a blessing to you guys. Wehope you kind of entered into that conversation18500:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.190as you were listening through, andthere is actually a video of that out.18600:13:28.870 --> 00:13:33.149When this episode goes alive, thereshould be an article out on our18700:13:33.190 --> 00:13:37.110sidewalks for life website and you guyscan check that out. Within that article18800:13:37.190 --> 00:13:41.100in the sidewalks for life website therewill be a link to the youtube videos.18900:13:41.139 --> 00:13:46.860If you wanted to watch that,you certainly could, but we're going19000:13:46.899 --> 00:13:50.700to we're going to look at thatconversation. Yeah, we're going to kind19100:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.059of summarize some of the main points. Yeah, because I think it's important19200:13:54.539 --> 00:14:03.330to really verbalize what the flow ofthat conversation was, because it was very19300:14:03.570 --> 00:14:05.409typical. Yeah. Well, oneof the things that I think is really19400:14:05.450 --> 00:14:11.200important that you did right away asyou introduced yourself. Yeah, because this19500:14:11.360 --> 00:14:13.799is relationship building. We're trying tobuild trust with that young lady and one19600:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.879of the ways that we do thatis by introducing ourselves kind of tear down19700:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.879those walls problem. So I'm notsome Raven Lunatics, some protest or whatever,19800:14:22.519 --> 00:14:24.149but I'm Vicky Ye, here tooffer you help. Yeah, and19900:14:24.269 --> 00:14:28.909then the gentleness that you come across, and obviously that's that's very important,20000:14:28.950 --> 00:14:31.470because we didn't want to come outof the gate right out, you know,20100:14:31.549 --> 00:14:33.950right off the Bat, don't orderyour baby and just kind of go20200:14:33.549 --> 00:14:37.230into, you know, frantic modewhere we kind of scare them away.20300:14:37.230 --> 00:14:41.379Yeah, so coming across with gentleness. Yeah, now I will offer it20400:14:41.460 --> 00:14:45.700now. We've talked about this.So let's talk about this just for a20500:14:45.740 --> 00:14:50.100second, because you introduced yourself right, but in that video I don't remember20600:14:50.139 --> 00:14:54.250you asking her what her name was. I don't think I ever did until20700:14:54.289 --> 00:14:56.490maybe at the end. I honestlyto don't remember, but I did not20800:14:56.690 --> 00:15:03.049at the beginning and I often donot. Yeah, and we have mentioned20900:15:03.090 --> 00:15:05.929that, I think in the lastpodcast, maybe. But the reason I21000:15:05.129 --> 00:15:09.840do not is that quite often Ihave found when I do, if if21100:15:09.879 --> 00:15:16.799I ask immediately, they they instantlyhackles go up, suspicion goes up.21200:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.919They they don't want to give mepersonal information. They're there to kill their21300:15:20.919 --> 00:15:26.389baby. They're mostly ashamed. Manyare coming from hours away. So that21400:15:26.549 --> 00:15:30.590their identity won't be revealed. Sothey have no idea what I'm going to21500:15:30.629 --> 00:15:39.580do with that information and I purposelydon't really don't ask them their name on21600:15:39.940 --> 00:15:43.740often times until at the very end, sometimes not at all. Usually by21700:15:43.779 --> 00:15:46.539the time I get to the endand I'm if they're going to go on21800:15:46.620 --> 00:15:48.019the RV, I'll ask him.Yeah, or right before praying. I21900:15:48.100 --> 00:15:52.450was because I want to use theirname in prayer if they're willing to let22000:15:52.490 --> 00:15:56.889me pray for them. But Iknow you do. Sometimes do ask their22100:15:56.929 --> 00:16:00.289name. Yeah, right away.Yeah, I mostly don't ride away,22200:16:00.370 --> 00:16:03.370though you have, for the samereason you said now. It just depends.22300:16:03.450 --> 00:16:06.559It depends on if I can perceivethat they're solved hearted and they're being22400:16:06.679 --> 00:16:10.480relational. Yeah, then I'll willgo ahead and ask their name, but22500:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.080mostly if they're if there's kind ofthat wall up, yeah, I want22600:16:14.120 --> 00:16:17.240to try to do everything I canto keep that conversation going and so I22700:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.830don't want to shut the conversation downby asking them personal information to quickly and22800:16:21.950 --> 00:16:23.590I will, like you said,if I'm if I've kind of given them22900:16:23.629 --> 00:16:27.549everything I possibly can, I normallywill kind of, I guess, close23000:16:27.669 --> 00:16:30.309the deal. I don't know howit's to say it, but kind of23100:16:30.309 --> 00:16:34.259wrap the conversation up with prayer andI will ask them for their name.23200:16:34.299 --> 00:16:37.940Can I pray for you? Andthen I will use their name. Right.23300:16:37.940 --> 00:16:41.700So I think one of the pointshere, with any of these conversations,23400:16:41.899 --> 00:16:45.620is you've got to be walking withGod, you've got to be led23500:16:45.659 --> 00:16:48.210by the Holy Spirit. You gotto do the best you can to yield23600:16:48.210 --> 00:16:52.769to the Holy Spirit him, lethim speak through you. And if you23700:16:52.850 --> 00:16:56.250ask their name, you know rightaway. I can use that. I23800:16:56.370 --> 00:16:59.730Spring Board off of that, likewe kind of did an arm OC session23900:16:59.769 --> 00:17:02.639when you said your name was faith, right, a couple episodes ago.24000:17:02.759 --> 00:17:04.920Yeah, I use that in mycounseling. Do you have faith? You24100:17:04.960 --> 00:17:07.599know there's a God that you canput your faith in. Right, right.24200:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.400So, yeah, it's general rule. I think you want to be24300:17:11.400 --> 00:17:15.869as relational as possible and sometimes thatmeans he's always means you sharing what your24400:17:15.869 --> 00:17:18.390name isn't you always do that?But asking them what their name is,24500:17:18.509 --> 00:17:22.630yeah, you maybe want to readthe situation a little better. Yeah,24600:17:22.670 --> 00:17:25.630and at the moment that I askedher her name, and this is just24700:17:25.750 --> 00:17:29.829second nature now, but it's avery important point. I'm extending my hand24800:17:30.019 --> 00:17:33.619with the literature in it to herto take, yeah, from me.24900:17:33.740 --> 00:17:36.819You mean when you shared your name, as as I'm saying hi, I'm25000:17:36.819 --> 00:17:40.779Vicky, as I'm saying that,my arm is going out and and I'm25100:17:40.980 --> 00:17:45.690offering the information, yeah, toher right away. Yeah. Now one25200:17:45.730 --> 00:17:49.769of the next things that you didin that counseling session is you ask her25300:17:49.809 --> 00:17:53.769how far along she writes. Now, we just talked about not getting to25400:17:53.970 --> 00:17:57.759personally at yeah, because that canshut the conversation. Yeah, but there25500:17:57.839 --> 00:18:02.440does need to be a basis forthe conversation that you do got to get25600:18:02.519 --> 00:18:04.759into some personal stuff. Yeah,so asking them how far along they are,25700:18:04.839 --> 00:18:11.240and you'd be surprised actually, ofhow I easily they would give you25800:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.549this information. Yeah, I thinkI'm eight weeks along or whatever. Yeah,25900:18:14.589 --> 00:18:18.349or if they say they don't know, then we I'll instantly say something26000:18:18.390 --> 00:18:21.190along the lines of what we cantell you. We can take you right26100:18:21.190 --> 00:18:23.789now on our free mobile ultrasound unitand yeah, and tell you how far26200:18:23.829 --> 00:18:27.059along you are. What is oneof the important reasons, though, to26300:18:27.180 --> 00:18:30.940know that information? Well, themost important for me is that then I26400:18:30.980 --> 00:18:40.420can actually recite developmental facts about whatis happening in that child, because most26500:18:40.500 --> 00:18:45.730of them are at least five weeksif they've missed their period, at least26600:18:45.730 --> 00:18:49.130five weeks. And I've got memorizedthe key developmental facts of the first really26700:18:49.250 --> 00:18:52.569twenty weeks, but certainly if thefirst nine weeks, and so I can26800:18:52.690 --> 00:18:56.039recite back. I think I didit in the video. Immediately start to26900:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.400tell some of the basic developmental facts. The hearts beating already. If you've27000:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.519missed period by six weeks, brainbrain waves are detectable by eight weeks every27100:19:04.559 --> 00:19:11.190organ and place. Those are threereally key developmental facts and when you do27200:19:11.549 --> 00:19:18.390that you are instantly humanizing the childright and showing that this is not just27300:19:18.630 --> 00:19:22.470a blob of cells. And mostof the women don't know. Yeah,27400:19:22.589 --> 00:19:27.299no matter what the socalled pro choicepeople say, they do not know that27500:19:27.460 --> 00:19:32.740the baby is that developed that earlyone. So No, one of the27600:19:32.819 --> 00:19:36.420things that I find in my conversationsis when I ask a woman how far27700:19:36.460 --> 00:19:37.769along she is, you know,a lot of times they'll tell me right27800:19:37.890 --> 00:19:41.289out, you know, I'm nineweeks, I'm eight weeks and ten weeks27900:19:41.289 --> 00:19:45.170or whatever. But also a lotof times I'll find that they're actually dating28000:19:45.210 --> 00:19:48.130themselves as early as possible. Sothey might say, well, I'm two28100:19:48.170 --> 00:19:52.329weeks from three weeks. Well,yeah, probably not the case. Actually,28200:19:52.329 --> 00:19:55.440as you drilled down into it,you find that they've actually dated themselves28300:19:55.480 --> 00:19:59.400as early as possible because of theguilt factor, because they figure well,28400:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.359if I'm from four weeks, thisguy that's talking to me is not going28500:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.880to judge me, yeah, forcoming here whatever, because it's not yet28600:20:04.880 --> 00:20:10.190a baby. And say date themselvesas early as possible so that they can28700:20:10.230 --> 00:20:11.710say, well, it's not reallya baby. Yeah, and usually what28800:20:11.829 --> 00:20:15.069I do when I hear that twoor three weeks is I asked, Oh28900:20:15.230 --> 00:20:19.509wow, you know you're probably furtheralong. What was the last the first29000:20:19.509 --> 00:20:22.180day of your last period? I'llI'll write to ask them that. Yeah,29100:20:22.220 --> 00:20:26.019and I've gotten pretty good at calculatingthen how how far they along,29200:20:26.099 --> 00:20:32.859are actually along, and it's almostalways five weeks. It's almost always the29300:20:33.059 --> 00:20:37.369earliest. UN rare occasion there's someonethat that truly is only about four weeks.29400:20:37.529 --> 00:20:40.049Yeah, along. Well, alwayswill go, because I'm not going29500:20:40.049 --> 00:20:42.289to drill into that. You maynot as a man right. Well,29600:20:42.369 --> 00:20:45.009I will go to the fact that, well, at the moment of conception.29700:20:45.170 --> 00:20:49.839Your baby's got unique DNA, isa unique individual. Yeah, and29800:20:51.119 --> 00:20:53.440it just eighteen, twenty one daysyour baby's heart began to be so you29900:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.799and if you're that early along,then your baby is still a human being.30000:20:57.880 --> 00:21:00.440Yeah. So I could right tothat. Yeah, and that that's30100:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.950keep point to be able to tomention. And then then I think I30200:21:06.109 --> 00:21:10.990moved into offering just general help.I don't yet know everything she's facing,30300:21:11.789 --> 00:21:14.509just a general statement, Hey,we have hope and help for you,30400:21:14.750 --> 00:21:17.589no matter what you face. Wecan help you. I'm really glad you30500:21:17.710 --> 00:21:22.019stopped. Yeah. So, yeah, and then think the next point that30600:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.339you got into, which I thinkis it's one of the things I want30700:21:26.339 --> 00:21:29.259to get right to as well asI'm a conversation with a woman at the30800:21:29.299 --> 00:21:32.500abortion center. Is What brought youhere. Right. What are your main30900:21:32.619 --> 00:21:36.250obstacle, because I want to reallyfind that there's there's probably a bunch of31000:21:36.329 --> 00:21:40.130stuff going on her life, Iwould say relational stuff, financial stuff,31100:21:40.289 --> 00:21:44.329health stuff, all these things thatare going on, but there's there's probably31200:21:44.450 --> 00:21:48.079of all of those things, onemajor thing, kind of like the straw31300:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.039that broke the camel's back right,right, and I want to try to31400:21:51.200 --> 00:21:55.279ask a question and I'll frame itin a couple of different ways, but31500:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.240basically, why did you come here? Yeah, what is the thing that's31600:21:59.240 --> 00:22:02.190going on in your life that makesyou feel like abortion is an option for31700:22:02.269 --> 00:22:04.150you? I ask it like thatsometimes. Yeah, I'll ask it,31800:22:04.509 --> 00:22:08.150you know, I'll maybe imply.Are you struggling financially? Is that why31900:22:08.190 --> 00:22:11.349you've come here? Yeah, areyou having an issue with your boyfriend?32000:22:11.589 --> 00:22:14.470Is that what you've come here?So I'm going to ask it that way,32100:22:14.549 --> 00:22:17.940but I want to try to reallydrilly into sometimes I'd even asked the32200:22:17.980 --> 00:22:21.779question if we could take care ofif I could promise you that we could32300:22:21.819 --> 00:22:26.140take care of one thing that wouldkeep you from going inside of that abortion32400:22:26.180 --> 00:22:29.539center, what would that one thingbe? Yeah, now ask you like32500:22:29.660 --> 00:22:32.609that. Yeah, and it reallykind of brings to the surface. What32600:22:32.849 --> 00:22:36.289is that struggle? What is thatmain issue that brought her there? And32700:22:36.450 --> 00:22:40.690then when she shares that, I'llgive a corresponding resource. Well, if32800:22:40.769 --> 00:22:44.599that's the case, here's how wecan help. Right. And one of32900:22:44.640 --> 00:22:47.359the things that I did in thevideo, and I think it is also33000:22:47.480 --> 00:22:52.480in general, a good technique,counseling technique, is to restate what they've33100:22:52.480 --> 00:22:56.039said. Yeah, reflect on whatthey've said, reach say it in another33200:22:56.119 --> 00:23:00.029way to make sure first of all, you're making sure they know they've been33300:23:00.069 --> 00:23:04.910heard. Yeah, they know you'renot minimizing that obstacle, but for them33400:23:06.109 --> 00:23:11.859to hear it from ant, fromyou, sometimes will help them to recognize,33500:23:11.900 --> 00:23:15.980oh, maybe it's not as biga deal, right as I as33600:23:17.019 --> 00:23:19.220I thought it was. But andthen what you said, give give a33700:23:19.299 --> 00:23:25.859general solution or specific solutions if youknow if you have resources in your area33800:23:26.460 --> 00:23:32.730that can specifically resolve that, whateverthat obstacle is. It's important to to33900:23:33.210 --> 00:23:37.329mention that. Then absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I think the point is34000:23:37.450 --> 00:23:41.960that you're telling them their circumstance isnot beyond the help that you have.34100:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.920Right, right, if that situationmight be. Yes, help their resources.34200:23:45.039 --> 00:23:49.279Yeah, and there's time times tolet them talk and to restate what34300:23:49.359 --> 00:23:55.000they're saying. And I but Ithink there is also g rate value in34400:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.509asking a lot of questions. Firstof all, you figure out what the34500:23:57.589 --> 00:24:02.789true situation is. The more youask questions, the more they divault why34600:24:02.869 --> 00:24:06.190they're really there. Yeah, absolutely, what the what the root of that34700:24:06.390 --> 00:24:11.660is, and so and that isthe socratic method. It's a really good34800:24:11.779 --> 00:24:17.740method of getting people talking. Yeah, and and truly revealing issues. Yes,34900:24:17.859 --> 00:24:19.859to ask a lot of questions,and one of the major points,35000:24:19.900 --> 00:24:25.329of course, asking a lot ofquestions is getting a lot of answers and35100:24:25.769 --> 00:24:30.210listening correct those answer yeah, notjust asking questions in such a way where35200:24:30.250 --> 00:24:33.410you're getting their mouth moving, voterrunning. Yeah, but you've got information35300:24:33.690 --> 00:24:37.569they're giving you to springboard off of. Yes, when you're asking these these35400:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.519various questions, like what are theobstacles that you're facing? So make sure35500:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.759when you're asking questions, you're actuallylistening and you're not thinking about what's my35600:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.720next question going to be? Right, yeah, which is hard sometimes because35700:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.750you're on the spot. You dofeel the urgency. You should not really35800:24:53.869 --> 00:24:59.670show that you're feeling that urgency,but there is the urgency that they may35900:24:59.710 --> 00:25:03.470at any moment decide to zoom away. Yeah, I knew in this session36000:25:03.549 --> 00:25:06.349she was going to stay to theend, since it was a mock one,36100:25:06.829 --> 00:25:11.299but in a real session you neverknow. Yeah, so I think36200:25:11.339 --> 00:25:15.500that's why it's it's like a dancebetween the the counselor and, though the36300:25:15.660 --> 00:25:19.700woman. In terms of that,you're asking questions, but you also want36400:25:19.740 --> 00:25:25.089to make sure that that they knowthat they've been her so restating it to36500:25:25.250 --> 00:25:30.930show that they've been heard and thenspring boarding off on onto the next question.36600:25:30.569 --> 00:25:34.759In our area, what I didnext is we do have a very36700:25:34.839 --> 00:25:41.160well established mentor program. Lots andlots of churches are connected and we have36800:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.440a backlog of mentors. Fortunately,that may not be true in every area,36900:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.079but I know it was true inour area, so that as soon37000:25:48.160 --> 00:25:55.789as I could, I mention thatthat program and some of the things that37100:25:55.910 --> 00:26:00.670that program the resources that that programcan provide or link them with. So37200:26:03.349 --> 00:26:06.819you want to ride away be givingthem hope? Yeah, if they're there,37300:26:06.980 --> 00:26:10.220they're hopeless. Yeah. No oneshows up to an abortion center brimming37400:26:10.259 --> 00:26:15.099with hope. So so the waythat we instill hope obviously through the Gospel,37500:26:15.619 --> 00:26:19.250but also through help, you,through tangible yeah, and it goes37600:26:19.250 --> 00:26:22.049along the lines of those three talkingpoints that we always push. You know37700:26:22.130 --> 00:26:26.369what God says? Yeah, humanity, the baby and the resources that are37800:26:26.369 --> 00:26:32.329available. Right, and a lotof times the conversation centers around the conversation37900:26:32.369 --> 00:26:34.960about the Lord bringing God into theequation, centers around the resources that are38000:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.960available yeah, and ultimately, theend of the day, these resources that38100:26:38.079 --> 00:26:42.119we have or there because of God, because the provision of the Lord.38200:26:42.359 --> 00:26:48.390Yeah, so in these conversations werealways bringing him into view, right into38300:26:48.430 --> 00:26:52.150the picture, because he's there anyway. They just don't acknowledge his presence a38400:26:52.230 --> 00:26:56.789lot of times. And bring themin as early as you can, but38500:26:56.430 --> 00:27:03.019not so sometimes it's not the veryfirst thing. I'll say it's usual,38600:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.420but it's usually within the first thirdof the conversation, for sure. Yeah,38700:27:07.819 --> 00:27:10.140that I want to mention. Well, what would God have you do?38800:27:10.220 --> 00:27:12.859Do you believe in God? Yeah, I know. One of the38900:27:12.980 --> 00:27:17.369things that you never want to do, in which I think you obviously you39000:27:17.490 --> 00:27:22.769do well in these conversations, isyou never want to minimize people struggles,39100:27:22.970 --> 00:27:27.609right, even sometimes, as asridiculous as those struggles might be, as39200:27:27.650 --> 00:27:32.839ridiculous as some of the justifications mightbe. Yeah, and this situation,39300:27:33.160 --> 00:27:36.319I mean there were some there's somestruggles for sure, and they were common39400:27:36.440 --> 00:27:40.240situations, by the way, theywere the foremost common situations. That was39500:27:40.359 --> 00:27:42.839the brief outline that we had givenMaddie. These are going to be your39600:27:42.960 --> 00:27:47.150issues, these four things. SoI knew what her issues were. Going39700:27:47.150 --> 00:27:49.670to be, but they are whatwe face the most often. Were the39800:27:49.750 --> 00:27:53.589things that Maddie brought up. Yeah, I know. My wife was telling39900:27:53.630 --> 00:27:59.220me at one point she was counselingwith a moment the abortion center and of40000:27:59.339 --> 00:28:03.460the like most ridiculous reasons to havean abortion, this was probably probably the40100:28:03.619 --> 00:28:08.180most selfish and the most ridiculous.And yet you still have to hear,40200:28:08.420 --> 00:28:14.130hear these these things out and keepyour composure, not say that's ridiculous right,40300:28:14.289 --> 00:28:18.089because of them. Obviously it's notridiculous right, but you can kind40400:28:18.130 --> 00:28:22.809of rephrase the the statement and helpthem to see how ridiculous that's. So,40500:28:22.009 --> 00:28:26.529for example, this young lady wasshe didn't want to be pregnant because40600:28:26.690 --> 00:28:30.200she was a stripper and it wouldhurt her business, it would hurt her40700:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.640her ability to make money. Andit's like you hear that, you realize,40800:28:33.759 --> 00:28:37.400okay, this person is about tokill their child because they don't want40900:28:37.400 --> 00:28:42.390their vocation to be affected. Howselfish and how ridiculous is that? But41000:28:42.670 --> 00:28:45.829right, obviously a struggle with them. Yeah, and you know, you41100:28:45.950 --> 00:28:48.670got to meet people where they are. Not doesn't mean you justify that and41200:28:49.069 --> 00:28:52.829you and you don't really focus onthe selfishness is wrapped up in that.41300:28:52.869 --> 00:28:56.660But there's a way to phrase that. So what I'm basically saying it was41400:28:56.740 --> 00:29:02.140when someone, if someone says somethingthat's so outlandish and so ridiculous, yeah,41500:29:02.220 --> 00:29:06.579and you just say that's ridiculous.You guys had the conversation that real41600:29:06.619 --> 00:29:08.539quick right. It's our I haveone. I can one up you on41700:29:08.579 --> 00:29:12.849this one. That one. She, the woman, told me that she41800:29:14.009 --> 00:29:17.769wanted to be able to fit intoa bikini because beach weather was approaching.41900:29:17.849 --> 00:29:21.369Yeah, and so that's why shewas at then that's that's pretty bad.42000:29:21.490 --> 00:29:23.289I mean, at least the stripperwas trying to provide for her family,42100:29:23.319 --> 00:29:30.200I guess. But the Bikini,there's nothing but selfish vanity that that is42200:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.599behind that. But, and honestlyI can't remember what I responded, but42300:29:34.480 --> 00:29:41.950I know I probably did try tosay something like I I understand women feeling42400:29:41.069 --> 00:29:47.990the need, oftentimes exaggerated need,to be beautiful before others, but listen,42500:29:48.109 --> 00:29:49.950this is a person's life. Yeah, that we're talking about. So42600:29:51.029 --> 00:29:55.140you can you can read phrase itin a way that is an insulting yeah,42700:29:55.259 --> 00:29:57.380or too insulting. I think Ijust again you have to be careful42800:29:57.539 --> 00:30:03.940not to just marginalize their concerns whatever, but bring them in view, like42900:30:03.180 --> 00:30:07.809take that concern and bring it inview in light of what's happening right.43000:30:07.130 --> 00:30:11.250So whatever that concern might be,you can bring it into the view of43100:30:11.289 --> 00:30:15.609okay, well, you're about tokill a person because of this. Understand43200:30:15.690 --> 00:30:18.650that. Yeah, and then also, whatever those struggles are, God sees43300:30:18.730 --> 00:30:23.039them and God knows them. Yeah, and he's concerned about them, obviously,43400:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.240the struggles and things like that,and he's not necessarily concerned about the43500:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.839stripper being able to continue to dowhat she wants to do, but he43600:30:30.960 --> 00:30:37.109is concerned about the struggles and thingsand the pressure that those struggles bring to43700:30:37.230 --> 00:30:40.589the point where a woman believes thatabortion is a way of escape for her.43800:30:40.750 --> 00:30:42.710So we need to bring the truthand to bring the truth into that43900:30:42.829 --> 00:30:48.869equation. You know, another exampleis and we did an episode about adoption44000:30:48.990 --> 00:30:52.140and how to mention adoption. Probablyit was probably been a year ago,44100:30:52.180 --> 00:30:55.019I would say, but it's animportant subject because we get it all the44200:30:55.099 --> 00:31:00.099time. Don't you mention adoption?We don't actually a lot mention adoption and44300:31:00.299 --> 00:31:03.059like go back and listen to theepisode, you can find out why we44400:31:03.180 --> 00:31:06.890don't doesn't. Okay, we domention adoption, but there's a time and44500:31:06.970 --> 00:31:10.609a place for it. And whenwe do mention adoption, a lot of44600:31:10.690 --> 00:31:14.049times, though, the reaction is, well, I can't give my baby44700:31:14.130 --> 00:31:18.920to someone else, and so that'sanother like kind of ridiculous statement right where44800:31:18.960 --> 00:31:23.480your in essence saying so you're you'retelling me you can't give your child to44900:31:23.680 --> 00:31:29.079another couple that you choose, butyou can kill them. Do you see45000:31:29.079 --> 00:31:30.960a ridiculous idea? So, whenyou hear that, though, my point45100:31:32.079 --> 00:31:34.829is our reaction shouldn't be one ofwell, that's ridiculous. It should be45200:31:36.109 --> 00:31:38.990hear them out, process what they'resaying and then repeat it back to them45300:31:40.109 --> 00:31:41.670in such a way, and we'vedone that before. So you're telling me45400:31:42.309 --> 00:31:47.380that instead of giving this child lifeand placing that child with a couple that45500:31:47.460 --> 00:31:49.259will love them and care for them, you would rather kill them. Right,45600:31:49.660 --> 00:31:53.140that's that's that's not poopoo in theirconcern, right, but it is45700:31:53.220 --> 00:31:56.140showing them their concern in the lightof what's true. Right, and this45800:31:56.220 --> 00:31:59.779is the same way and in theenny of these conversations. They might have45900:31:59.940 --> 00:32:02.410concerns and struggles, but we wantto, want to show them those struggles46000:32:02.490 --> 00:32:06.130in light of the truth and lightof the fact that they're about to kill46100:32:06.130 --> 00:32:09.369her child and God has made provisionfor them. Right. Yeah, exactly.46200:32:09.529 --> 00:32:15.880So as asking the questions that willhelp them to understand what the issue46300:32:15.160 --> 00:32:21.640really is and oftentimes sets bringing themto that the issue truly is usually some46400:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.519sort of selfish yeah, selfish reason, but you don't need to, you46500:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.119know, label it with that.You can help them to come to that46600:32:28.240 --> 00:32:31.349conclusion. Yeah, but pretty earlyon. So bringing God into the equation,46700:32:31.430 --> 00:32:36.589and I love what I think atsome point with with Maddie, early46800:32:36.750 --> 00:32:39.589on, I talked about when didthat child become loved or valued by God?46900:32:40.069 --> 00:32:45.059That was something that I started afteryou came up with your fail safe47000:32:45.220 --> 00:32:50.059pro life argument, which is trulya good one. It's not fail safe47100:32:50.099 --> 00:32:52.980because people do still go and killtheir baby after they hear it, but47200:32:53.140 --> 00:33:00.609it is an argument that very fewpeople can find a flaw with. Yeah,47300:33:00.569 --> 00:33:04.450so that's when did God start lovingyou? Yeah, and then working47400:33:04.529 --> 00:33:07.769them through to well where they youknow, the only thing that makes logical47500:33:07.849 --> 00:33:12.250senses from the moment of conception.I often have people say, Gee,47600:33:12.250 --> 00:33:15.480I don't know they've never thought aboutit, and that's I think, a47700:33:15.599 --> 00:33:21.759key good counseling technique is to askquestions where you're provoking thought. Yeah,47800:33:21.839 --> 00:33:24.720because oftentimes no one has thought aboutthat. Gee, when did God start47900:33:24.839 --> 00:33:32.309loving me? Or when did mybaby or me become valuable? And those48000:33:32.349 --> 00:33:37.269were questions that Maddie was great at, like saying Gee and saying now,48100:33:37.470 --> 00:33:42.500I guess from the moment of conception. That is what I face when that's48200:33:42.619 --> 00:33:45.579often the response. Yeah, whenwe ask that. Yeah, and I48300:33:45.940 --> 00:33:50.220do want to mention here, becausewe talk about God, we bring God48400:33:50.259 --> 00:33:53.700into the equation, and bringing scriptureinto view is really helpful. You know48500:33:53.779 --> 00:33:57.490what the Bible says asking that question. Do you know what the Bible says48600:33:57.490 --> 00:34:00.089about that? Yes, the Biblesay about your baby? What does the48700:34:00.130 --> 00:34:04.210Bible say about your struggles? Whatdoes the Bible say about the resources that48800:34:04.289 --> 00:34:07.210God has available? And so bringingGod into view, but also bring in48900:34:07.250 --> 00:34:12.599scripture in, and I don't Ithink you should probably have your Bible.49000:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.239That's one of the critiques I wouldgive. Have Your Bible right there and49100:34:15.320 --> 00:34:17.719be able to point them to scripture. Yeah, it's hard to do again,49200:34:17.719 --> 00:34:21.800especially if you're thumbing through your Bibleand trying to find particular there's scriptures.49300:34:22.039 --> 00:34:23.909We do have scriptures within the literature. The literature has scriptures there.49400:34:23.989 --> 00:34:29.670Yeah, point too, but memorizingsome scripture, even maybe having your Bible49500:34:29.710 --> 00:34:31.510right there at the ready and whipit out and show him here's what the49600:34:31.510 --> 00:34:35.789Bible says. I think it's sometimesis helpful, rather than just you repeating49700:34:35.829 --> 00:34:38.099what the Scripture says, if youhave the opportunity to open your Bible and49800:34:38.219 --> 00:34:42.820show them here's what the Bible says. Would you be willing to read that?49900:34:43.059 --> 00:34:45.500Get them to read something thirteen andfourteen or yeah, some of the50000:34:45.539 --> 00:34:52.340other passages. They're really helpful.Yeah, and we do have some wonderful50100:34:52.380 --> 00:34:58.210counselors who have actually put tabs intheir Bible specifically for sidewalk counseling and you50200:34:58.369 --> 00:35:05.210can get to those important scriptures rightaway. I have a poor vision with50300:35:05.929 --> 00:35:07.960with a close I'd have to eitherbring a big, Big Bible and with50400:35:08.039 --> 00:35:13.639all the other stuff that I haveI can't. But I do have memorized50500:35:14.599 --> 00:35:17.840the the most key important scripture,which was really hard for me because I50600:35:17.920 --> 00:35:22.750have a terrible memory. But Ihave memorized the the most important scripture,50700:35:22.989 --> 00:35:29.429but I agree with you it isbetter to actually show them in a Bible50800:35:29.869 --> 00:35:34.070to show I'm not just making thisyeah, and and to flip to the50900:35:34.150 --> 00:35:38.059page. There is power in inGod's in God's word. Yeah, yeah,51000:35:38.059 --> 00:35:42.300I know. So, just youguys can't see because obviously we're doing51100:35:42.300 --> 00:35:46.099audio, but we're going through actuallyjust some points that we wanted to touch51200:35:46.219 --> 00:35:49.820on in this flow of this mocksession, and one of the points you51300:35:49.940 --> 00:35:55.250have here is talking about God willforgive me all the time. Yes,51400:35:55.449 --> 00:36:00.329say it all the time. Yeah, and she did say it. However,51500:36:00.369 --> 00:36:04.519I that was one of the CuzI'll make up myself. I did51600:36:04.679 --> 00:36:08.519not respond to it. Yeah,and I think I responded to something else51700:36:08.559 --> 00:36:14.719at that point. I heard it. Yeah, and typically what I will51800:36:14.760 --> 00:36:16.519say when they say, well,God will just forgive me, I'll talk51900:36:16.559 --> 00:36:22.510about why are you truly asking hisforgiveness? Right, if what you're saying52000:36:22.710 --> 00:36:27.309is I'm going to disregard what hesays and I'm going to do it anyway.52100:36:27.309 --> 00:36:30.230Yes, that asking forgiveness, oris that asking permission to sin?52200:36:30.510 --> 00:36:35.619Right, you know, sometimes Iwill kind of ignore those statements because what52300:36:35.739 --> 00:36:37.699I don't want to get into,and you again, you got to be52400:36:37.699 --> 00:36:40.179led by the Holy Spirit, yougot to read the situation best you can.52500:36:40.219 --> 00:36:44.699But I don't want to get intoa back and forth theologically. I52600:36:44.780 --> 00:36:47.289don't want to have to give anapologetic for forgiveness and all this other stuff.52700:36:47.329 --> 00:36:50.889We can talk about that at somepoint, but in front of the52800:36:50.929 --> 00:36:53.130abortion center when that baby is aboutto die, I'm not going to get52900:36:53.170 --> 00:36:58.769in some scriptural argument about forgiveness andall this other stuff with a mom that's53000:36:58.769 --> 00:37:00.760going in to kill her child ifI don't think that conversation is going to53100:37:00.800 --> 00:37:06.119be productive. I think, andthat's a really good point, is when53200:37:06.199 --> 00:37:10.760do you jump on those statements?And I think when it is the major53300:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.679thing they're counting on. They're bankingon God's forgiveness. Yeah, you need53400:37:15.710 --> 00:37:19.429to address it, but it wasn'twith Maddie and that might have been why53500:37:19.550 --> 00:37:22.670my instincts were not to jump onit at because with Maddie there were some53600:37:22.829 --> 00:37:27.949other pretty significant things she was bringingup and I think forgiveness was one of53700:37:27.989 --> 00:37:31.579the rationalizations, but I don't thinkit was what was the the thing that53800:37:31.699 --> 00:37:37.500was allowing her to go forth rightthe abortion? Yeah, absolutely nothing.53900:37:37.539 --> 00:37:40.820Again, bringing to view that childand I might give it an analogy or54000:37:40.860 --> 00:37:44.369something like that. If a womansays, well, God'll forgive me.54100:37:44.409 --> 00:37:46.769Yeah, and I might give theanalogies, especially if I'm already kind of54200:37:46.849 --> 00:37:51.849set that stage for will God lovedyou and knew you before you were born.54300:37:51.929 --> 00:37:54.289He also loves and knows your childbefore they are born, your child54400:37:54.289 --> 00:37:58.530that you carry right now. Andso I might say something like if someone54500:37:58.570 --> 00:38:01.519came up and just killed you andthey say, well, God'll forgive me,54600:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.360would that be okay? Is Godjust going to forgive that? As54700:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.719God okay with that? Because again, you're talking about killing a person and54800:38:07.960 --> 00:38:13.469then using forgiveness as a justification todo that. Right, God is a54900:38:13.630 --> 00:38:16.789forgiving God for those who repent,but those that do what I just describe55000:38:16.829 --> 00:38:22.510to you or not really repentant.Right, yeah, exactly. So then55100:38:22.309 --> 00:38:29.260we the conversation, spent a goodbit of time talking about God. Then55200:38:29.420 --> 00:38:34.619in the in the middle of thissession with Maddie, at some just asking55300:38:34.780 --> 00:38:38.500what she believed was Jesus Lord,what it means if Jesus is Lord,55400:38:38.900 --> 00:38:45.570and then what would God have youdo? And that question almost always is55500:38:45.809 --> 00:38:50.849responded to exactly how Maddie responded witha pause. Yeah, kind of a55600:38:50.969 --> 00:38:55.400deep sigh Ann and then, well, he wouldn't have me kill my baby.55700:38:55.639 --> 00:39:01.039Almost always I've I don't know ifI've ever had someone say God would55800:39:01.039 --> 00:39:05.000would have me go forth and killmy baby. They'll say, well,55900:39:05.039 --> 00:39:09.510God might forgive me or God willunderstand, but they know God would never56000:39:10.349 --> 00:39:15.510say go kill your baby. Yeah. So I think of all the questions56100:39:15.550 --> 00:39:19.190I ask, honestly, that tome is one of the most fruitful and56200:39:19.550 --> 00:39:22.190one of the most most important.Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah,56300:39:22.190 --> 00:39:25.380again bringing God into the conversation.What would he have you to do?56400:39:27.219 --> 00:39:30.739Not just what do you what doyou feel he's okay with you doing right,56500:39:30.940 --> 00:39:35.420but if you directly heard from him, yeah, what would you hear?56600:39:35.699 --> 00:39:38.130Yeah, life for death. Yeah, and so bringing that question to56700:39:38.210 --> 00:39:42.409the forefront of their mind is really, really important. Yeah, I know56800:39:42.489 --> 00:39:45.730you have here examine the relationship withthe father, and I will bring that56900:39:46.130 --> 00:39:52.409into the conversation where I'm talking about. Does the father of this baby know57000:39:52.570 --> 00:39:54.639that you're here to be right andwhat does he think? Yeah, because57100:39:54.639 --> 00:39:59.280I do know that if the manwill step up and he say that he57200:39:59.360 --> 00:40:05.039will support his child and this womanin keeping that baby more often than not57300:40:05.199 --> 00:40:07.750she's going to choose to keep thatjob. Yeah, we had that happened57400:40:07.869 --> 00:40:12.389just this week where there was ayoung man who is weeping. He came57500:40:12.469 --> 00:40:15.429to US weeping, saying that hecould he could not convince her. He57600:40:15.590 --> 00:40:19.230didn't know what to say to her, but he did not want the baby57700:40:19.269 --> 00:40:22.940to die. And she was inthere and we told him exactly what you57800:40:23.059 --> 00:40:27.179said, you know. We askedhim, well, have you ever told57900:40:27.219 --> 00:40:30.260her I love you, I lovethat child and I'll do whatever it takes58000:40:30.300 --> 00:40:31.980to support you in that baby?And he said well, no, yeah,58100:40:32.059 --> 00:40:34.900I said, well, call herright now and tell her that and58200:40:35.019 --> 00:40:40.090she left. That she ended upleaving. So it is important to figure58300:40:40.130 --> 00:40:46.530out what the father the baby isthinking and if the father the baby is58400:40:46.610 --> 00:40:51.639not supportive, which is, likeyou mentioned and I think Maddie and the58500:40:51.679 --> 00:40:55.519arm conversation said was the case.If the father's not supportive, then you58600:40:55.559 --> 00:41:01.679can continue to ask more questions,and one of them that I often ask58700:41:01.920 --> 00:41:07.550is if this person that you sayyou love is telling you that, despite58800:41:07.630 --> 00:41:13.030your deep concerns about killing your ownchild, that he wants you to kill58900:41:13.070 --> 00:41:16.190your child. Is that a personthat you really want to be with.59000:41:16.349 --> 00:41:21.139Yeah, and they often say no, right, and they often say that59100:41:21.219 --> 00:41:24.780it makes them feel very bad.Yeah, that that the father told them59200:41:24.820 --> 00:41:28.219to kill their baby, and thatis, I think, what I did59300:41:28.539 --> 00:41:34.809with with Maddie. But asking directlyif there's a conflict in your heart.59400:41:34.889 --> 00:41:39.969Sometimes we kind of avoid that,but I think sometimes direct questions. Is59500:41:40.090 --> 00:41:45.690Their conflict? Are you feeling likeyou're not sure that you want to kill59600:41:45.730 --> 00:41:50.599your baby? That's an important question. Yeah, because if there is conflict,59700:41:51.039 --> 00:41:53.800then you can say, well,which voice do you think is?59800:41:54.280 --> 00:41:58.639Is God speaking to you? Right, which part, which side of that59900:41:58.800 --> 00:42:01.110conflict, is coming from God andwhich do you think is coming from the60000:42:01.150 --> 00:42:07.670enemy of your soul, and helpthem identify the battle. Yeah, the60100:42:07.750 --> 00:42:10.469spiritual battle that is raging. AndYeah, and your kind of, in60200:42:10.590 --> 00:42:15.389that sense, doing what God says. He says, I set before you60300:42:15.510 --> 00:42:19.179this day life and death, blessingand cursing therey. So you're kind of60400:42:19.219 --> 00:42:22.019laying that out. Okay, let'sjust be real. Yeah, let's just60500:42:22.219 --> 00:42:25.739boil this thing tell to down toits most basic element. Yeah, God,60600:42:25.980 --> 00:42:30.409is it before you life and death. Right, is there conflict in60700:42:30.449 --> 00:42:34.090your heart between those two? Andif so, and they're always is.60800:42:34.769 --> 00:42:37.730Yes, which one is the rightthing to choose? That's right. Life60900:42:37.769 --> 00:42:42.010for death. Yeah, because,honestly, that's not how they have framed61000:42:42.130 --> 00:42:46.960the conflict. Course, they haveframed the conflict life of the baby versus61100:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.039all this struggle I'm going to face. Yeah, as opposed to boiling it61200:42:52.159 --> 00:42:58.480down to truly what is the rootconflict? Life of the baby versus death61300:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.710of the baby. Yeah, obeyingand following God versus rebelling and denying God's61400:43:02.750 --> 00:43:07.150clear word. And when you boilit down to the root issue, then61500:43:07.150 --> 00:43:13.420they have to really deal with whatthey are doing in terms of God and61600:43:13.780 --> 00:43:16.619what God says. Absolutely, andthat's a mean yeah, that's key in61700:43:16.940 --> 00:43:21.980again, it gives it gives theHoly Spirit the ability to move like you're61800:43:22.019 --> 00:43:25.139I mean, he's already obviously alreadymoving, but you want to give space61900:43:25.179 --> 00:43:28.570for the Holy Spirit to speak totheir hearts. Yes, as you can62000:43:28.570 --> 00:43:30.650say a lot of stuff, youcan use a lot of good techniques and62100:43:30.730 --> 00:43:34.849all of that, and you knowwe should employ good techniques, but at62200:43:34.849 --> 00:43:37.809the end of the day, theHoly Spirit is the one that has to62300:43:37.889 --> 00:43:40.880convict them and convince them that whatthey're doing is wrong in killing their child62400:43:42.159 --> 00:43:44.880and that they need to trust theLord. Yeah, and so we've got62500:43:44.960 --> 00:43:49.119again make ourselves a condoment for theHoly Spirit to speak to them. Yeah,62600:43:49.239 --> 00:43:52.079give him space to speak to theirhearts and, you know, I62700:43:52.199 --> 00:43:57.429trust that, as we do,that God's God's going to do something right.62800:43:57.469 --> 00:44:02.630Yeah, it also helps you toremain calm through and and I think62900:44:02.710 --> 00:44:07.670that is absolutely critical. Yeah,that you remain calm through the whole discussion,63000:44:07.789 --> 00:44:13.219not frantic, if you are trulytrusting it's up to God. Yeah,63100:44:13.500 --> 00:44:15.900bottom line, it's up to God, in the Holy Spirit and this63200:44:15.059 --> 00:44:17.780woman, not me. I cando my best, I will do my63300:44:17.940 --> 00:44:23.219best, but it's not up tome how it's going to end. It's63400:44:23.260 --> 00:44:27.650right to God. That allows you, I think, to stay calm,63500:44:27.690 --> 00:44:31.090yeah, through the discussion. Absolutely, yeah, realizing that the results are63600:44:31.090 --> 00:44:34.610up to the Lord. Right,but doesn't mean that we're just passive,63700:44:34.650 --> 00:44:37.880right, right, we're we're notpassive when we're trying to flag people down,63800:44:37.920 --> 00:44:40.079get them to stop and talk withus, and we're not passive when63900:44:40.079 --> 00:44:45.960we're speaking the truth of God.We're kind of like we're actively surrendered to64000:44:45.039 --> 00:44:50.599the Holy Spirit and actively acknowledge thatit's the Holy Spirit that's doing the work.64100:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.269We're just there to plant seeds,we're there to water seeds, but64200:44:53.389 --> 00:44:57.630God gives the increase. Yeah,and that really does take the pressure off64300:44:57.670 --> 00:45:00.110of us. It does, sinceI want to encourage you guys with especially64400:45:00.230 --> 00:45:04.269folks that are new and you're maybefeeling all this pressure of I want to64500:45:04.309 --> 00:45:07.659say the right thing at the righttime, and all of this was in64600:45:07.699 --> 00:45:10.619the pressure is off. We've justgot to be condoents for the Holy Spirit.64700:45:10.699 --> 00:45:14.579Make ourselves available. You're going tomess up, you're going to say64800:45:14.699 --> 00:45:19.099things that you maybe shouldn't up said. You're going to, I don't know,64900:45:19.340 --> 00:45:22.690maybe forget to say things that youshould have said. Or that's going65000:45:22.769 --> 00:45:25.050to happen. Happens to me,it happens to you. Yeah, right,65100:45:25.130 --> 00:45:28.409viggy. There's things that you shouldhave said, we would have said65200:45:28.409 --> 00:45:30.809or whatever. Yeah, you cannever say everything perfectly. You can never65300:45:30.889 --> 00:45:35.719say everything that needs to be said. You're just making yourselves available to the65400:45:35.800 --> 00:45:38.639Holy Spirit and letting him speak throughyou and leaving the results up to the65500:45:38.760 --> 00:45:44.079Lord. And Yeah, yeah,can change their hearts if they harden their65600:45:44.119 --> 00:45:47.599hearts. That's between them and God. Right, and and something that I65700:45:47.760 --> 00:45:53.389think new counselors are less hesitant todo. But is important is kind of65800:45:54.670 --> 00:46:00.429give the final course of action.And in the case of the discussion with65900:46:00.510 --> 00:46:04.780Maddie, it was all right.You know, we've talked about all these66000:46:04.820 --> 00:46:08.059issues. Now, are you ready? Will you go on the ultra sound66100:46:08.059 --> 00:46:10.900and look at your baby speeding heart? Yeah, and and she said she66200:46:12.139 --> 00:46:17.460would surprise. Surprise. Yeah,exactly. But uh, but it's the66300:46:17.539 --> 00:46:22.050same. And Sharing The Gospel sometimeswhere hesitant. We lay it all out66400:46:22.050 --> 00:46:24.610there and then we don't want togive an invitation because we're afraid will lose.66500:46:24.929 --> 00:46:29.130They'll say no. Yeah, butif you don't give the invitation,66600:46:29.210 --> 00:46:32.719they also can't say yes. Right. So that's true in sharing the Gospel66700:46:32.800 --> 00:46:37.199at I believe, and it andit's true in a discussion with them.66800:46:37.679 --> 00:46:42.320Give them the positive thing, invitethem to the positive thing they need to66900:46:42.440 --> 00:46:45.920do. Now, can I setup an appointment right now for you for67000:46:45.000 --> 00:46:50.230an ultra sound it? Can Isign you up for the mentorship program something67100:46:50.630 --> 00:46:54.349that is can I schedule, youknow, D Altra Sound, which we67200:46:54.469 --> 00:47:00.550actually provide here in Charlotte, butsomething that is the positive choice for life,67300:47:00.909 --> 00:47:06.099at least a step away from theabortion center and into that positive choice67400:47:06.500 --> 00:47:08.980is really important. Yeah, that'swhat it is powerful for us to be67500:47:09.019 --> 00:47:12.940able to point directly to the RVand say, would you just go on67600:47:13.019 --> 00:47:15.769board that RV right there? Wouldyou go on board that mobiltra sound unit67700:47:15.849 --> 00:47:20.250and see your baby right and ifyou've got a pregnancy center, maybe you67800:47:20.250 --> 00:47:23.849don't have a mobile unit right there. Maybe there's a pregnancy center ten fifteen67900:47:23.849 --> 00:47:28.289minutes down the road. That's that'sanother thing. Would you go? Would68000:47:28.289 --> 00:47:30.599just let me make you an appointment? I'll call them up right now,68100:47:30.280 --> 00:47:34.920or here's the directions. Go overthere and just see them. Or,68200:47:35.559 --> 00:47:38.360like you said, maybe ceiling atyou again, for lack of a better68300:47:38.400 --> 00:47:42.320term. Sealing the deal. Yeah, I'll see the deal in prayer.68400:47:42.360 --> 00:47:44.750Can I just pray for you?Yeah, can I just pray for you,68500:47:45.269 --> 00:47:47.590and then I'll be praying not justfor them, I'm bring at them.68600:47:47.710 --> 00:47:50.869Lord, help them to see thevalue of their baby. Help them68700:47:50.869 --> 00:47:52.590to see that going inside of thatplace is not where you would have them68800:47:52.630 --> 00:47:55.909to go. So there does comea point where you need to wrap up68900:47:55.909 --> 00:48:01.420the conversation. Yeah, you canjust going endlessly and gives nowhere. And69000:48:01.500 --> 00:48:06.659now I think ultimately laying that choicebetween life and death out for them.69100:48:07.699 --> 00:48:10.340Again, it's between them and theLord. But it is helpful to have69200:48:10.579 --> 00:48:14.889a place for them, an alternativefor them to go to rather than going69300:48:15.010 --> 00:48:16.889into the abortion center. And thatcould be let's say you don't have a69400:48:16.969 --> 00:48:21.250pregnancy center, let's say you don'thave a mobile unit there. You don't69500:48:21.250 --> 00:48:24.449really have a place to send themtake them for coffee. So would you69600:48:24.489 --> 00:48:28.880be willing to just to turn around, just follow me up here to McDonald's69700:48:28.880 --> 00:48:30.559and will have coffee? Yeah,just get them awake, them away from69800:48:30.599 --> 00:48:34.960there. Could be that. Icould you guys be creative, some some69900:48:35.480 --> 00:48:38.079thing to get them away from there. Yeah, because we know that that70000:48:39.599 --> 00:48:45.230place has a just demonic drawl toit, right, and they even,70100:48:45.309 --> 00:48:51.469like intentionally, the abortion centers willcall these women who are maybe talking to70200:48:51.510 --> 00:48:53.590you out in the road or whereverthey're late for their appointment. Right at70300:48:53.590 --> 00:48:57.019right. That happened. Yeah,at that having get them to come on70400:48:57.139 --> 00:49:00.579in. So getting them away fromthere I think is important. Right,70500:49:00.619 --> 00:49:07.340right. And in terms of along sharing of the Gospel, almost never70600:49:07.860 --> 00:49:12.969do I do that. Car Side. I will introduce the Gospel, but70700:49:13.090 --> 00:49:16.809in terms of a full sharing ofthe Gospel. If they're willing to hear70800:49:16.889 --> 00:49:21.929it and there's still they're still soundingabortion determined to, then I will.70900:49:22.010 --> 00:49:24.320But in Maddie's case I didn't byknew I was going to have time.71000:49:24.679 --> 00:49:28.960Yeah, you know, with withher on the RV. Right. So,71100:49:30.159 --> 00:49:32.199so let's look at some of thethings real quick as we're sort of71200:49:32.280 --> 00:49:37.000wrapping up this episode that you did. Right, we've done some critique just71300:49:37.159 --> 00:49:43.989through this so far, but let'sgive some positive critique first and then we'll71400:49:44.030 --> 00:49:47.389do the negative critique, which thepositive is a much longer list, right,71500:49:49.590 --> 00:49:55.099actually know I is. Actually.So. The first thing is the71600:49:55.219 --> 00:50:00.940gentle tone and we talked a aboutbeing gentle, having a gentle tone.71700:50:01.340 --> 00:50:06.219Gander loves you to say the tonesets the tone. Yep, your tone71800:50:06.219 --> 00:50:07.690will set the tone. That's right. So if you come across as like,71900:50:08.570 --> 00:50:15.130you know, angry, demanding,accusatory, then the conversation is probably72000:50:15.130 --> 00:50:16.489not going to go very far,right. But if you have an inviting72100:50:16.570 --> 00:50:20.570tone, if you have a gentletone, if you have an approachable tone,72200:50:21.170 --> 00:50:22.760people are going to be more aptto engage with you in conversation.72300:50:22.760 --> 00:50:30.239Yeah, so you did present thethree talking points that we talked about.72400:50:30.360 --> 00:50:32.559You went through those as are woventhrough the whole conversation, right, which72500:50:32.679 --> 00:50:36.949God resources, humanity of the baby? Yeah, right, and then,72600:50:36.989 --> 00:50:39.590of course you brought God into thediscussion. Who can help but bring the72700:50:39.710 --> 00:50:44.110Lord into the discussion, right?I mean that's ultimately he's the one they're72800:50:44.110 --> 00:50:46.510accountable to and he's the one thatmade that baby and he's the reason why72900:50:46.550 --> 00:50:51.260we're out there ourselves, right,even if they're atheist. Yeah, we73000:50:51.380 --> 00:50:54.059always do try to weave got intothe discussion. Yeah, and you know,73100:50:54.300 --> 00:51:00.420we've talked about this before where I'vesaid basically, if you ask me73200:51:00.539 --> 00:51:05.809not to talk about God, it'skind of be an impossibility for me because73300:51:06.210 --> 00:51:08.090I love him, the reason I'mhere. He's a reason about it.73400:51:08.250 --> 00:51:13.210Right. So if I do havean atheist that I'm talking to and they73500:51:13.250 --> 00:51:15.730say you just not talk about religion, talk about God, I'll say,73600:51:15.769 --> 00:51:20.480you know, my response normally isI'll do the best. I cannot just73700:51:21.519 --> 00:51:23.679kind of I'm not trying to ramreligion down your throat. Listen, I73800:51:23.840 --> 00:51:28.239love the Lord, I believe inHim. He loves you. I'm gonna73900:51:28.239 --> 00:51:30.519have a hard time not talking abouthim. He's like the reason I'm here,74000:51:30.800 --> 00:51:34.909and that says volumes right there.Yeah, and so, yeah,74100:51:34.909 --> 00:51:37.789I'm not just trying to be purposefullyoffensive. When they say don't talk about74200:51:37.789 --> 00:51:43.469God, just, you know,start intentionally just quote and scripture to him74300:51:43.469 --> 00:51:45.510or something like that. But it'snot like that can help it. Right,74400:51:45.510 --> 00:51:47.059I'm going to quote scripture, I'mgoing to talk about the Lord.74500:51:49.780 --> 00:51:53.099But yeah, I mean you didthat awesome and you ask some questions.74600:51:53.179 --> 00:51:59.019Yeah, you got to ask questions, right, and again, listening for74700:51:59.059 --> 00:52:01.050the answers and all that engaging.This is this is supposed to be a74800:52:01.289 --> 00:52:07.289conversation. Yeah, a discussion,a dialog, and you're again you your74900:52:07.369 --> 00:52:10.730relationship building, you're trying to buildtrust with them, you're trying to tear75000:52:10.809 --> 00:52:15.079down those walls. You're trying tobring the Lord into the equation. But75100:52:15.280 --> 00:52:20.000God, God uses people, Right. Yeah, and so you're trying to75200:52:20.039 --> 00:52:24.280make yourself a person that God isusing in that discussion. And you know,75300:52:24.760 --> 00:52:28.480look at Jesus, look at atthe life of Jesus. He asks75400:52:28.599 --> 00:52:31.869questions, right, he's engaging intous, questions and told stories. That75500:52:31.949 --> 00:52:37.429was Jesus is main way of convictingpeople. He would ask questions and tell75600:52:37.909 --> 00:52:43.309the parables. So we should usethat that. He's our model. So75700:52:43.469 --> 00:52:45.739when we can, we should usethose, those techniques. Yeah, yeah,75800:52:45.900 --> 00:52:52.340and then, just as by theway of some maybe negative criticism,75900:52:52.420 --> 00:52:54.260I don't know, critique, critique, Tique, way said, we can76000:52:54.300 --> 00:52:59.409improve. Yeah, right, younever asked her name. Right, I76100:52:59.449 --> 00:53:02.170knew already talked about that, butshe knew it already. Right, and76200:53:02.449 --> 00:53:06.210we already talked about that. Sometimesyou do, sometimes you don't write,76300:53:07.489 --> 00:53:09.409and you didn't really focus on theGod will forgive me thing, which we've76400:53:09.409 --> 00:53:13.400already talked about that too. Sometimes, again, you focus on that.76500:53:13.559 --> 00:53:17.039Sometimes you need to focus on thatand sometimes you just again, we're not76600:53:17.199 --> 00:53:22.400out there to have some back andforth theological discussion with a woman going into76700:53:22.400 --> 00:53:23.800the abortion center. We're out thereto try to convince her not to kill76800:53:23.800 --> 00:53:30.789her child, not to talk aboutall the other theological things. I mean,76900:53:30.829 --> 00:53:34.750I've had conversations with women in frontof the abortion center and into a77000:53:34.829 --> 00:53:39.070fault because really I should not havetaken the bait where they're talking about the77100:53:39.190 --> 00:53:43.179doctrine of once saved, always savedor something like that, and they want77200:53:43.179 --> 00:53:45.500to go about how, you know, because they were saved when they're years77300:53:45.500 --> 00:53:49.460old, they're Christian and they canever lose their salvation so they can go77400:53:49.539 --> 00:53:52.500kill their baby, right. Andso I've fallen into the trap of want77500:53:52.500 --> 00:53:57.010to explain certain here's what the scriptureactually says and here's what the Bible says,77600:53:57.050 --> 00:54:00.369and trying to tear down that falseunderstanding of salvation and all of that.77700:54:00.730 --> 00:54:04.329Yeah, it really went nowhere,because all they want to do is77800:54:04.409 --> 00:54:07.409argue, and so the best thingto do when you perceive that they're just77900:54:07.489 --> 00:54:10.639want to argue with you, isjust ignore that and continue in with really78000:54:10.760 --> 00:54:14.400why they're they're they're there to takethe life of their baby. Yeah,78100:54:15.559 --> 00:54:19.440and you know, beyond that,I don't really have a lot of other78200:54:19.519 --> 00:54:23.000criticism. I thought the conversation wentexcellently. I feel like we need to78300:54:23.079 --> 00:54:27.070do more of those sort of thingsas mock sessions. I really think they78400:54:27.110 --> 00:54:30.750are equipping for people and again,me just listening through it myself, I78500:54:30.670 --> 00:54:35.469was I was like encourage an impactand I'm like man, this is this78600:54:35.670 --> 00:54:38.900is really equipping. Yeah, Iagree. I think that role playing and78700:54:39.059 --> 00:54:42.820for all of you, if you'renew out there, just getting a friend78800:54:42.940 --> 00:54:45.940to sit and do a similar sortof thing and tell them be tough on78900:54:45.059 --> 00:54:49.460me, have them throw I toldMaddie, don't be tough on me,79000:54:49.539 --> 00:54:52.809I'm going to be filmed. Butbut if you can get someone who's,79100:54:52.849 --> 00:54:57.170who is at least a little bitknowledgeable about, yeah, what what you79200:54:57.210 --> 00:55:00.849might face, and having them reallygive you the tough responses, if you've79300:55:00.889 --> 00:55:04.570practiced it, it is helpful.The Holy Spirit will take over in the79400:55:04.650 --> 00:55:09.639real situation and sometimes, like Iknow I've told this story before where the79500:55:09.760 --> 00:55:14.679first person I counseled, when shecame over to talk with me, I79600:55:15.400 --> 00:55:17.920had just no experience, I hadno idea what to say and I all79700:55:17.960 --> 00:55:22.389I did was hold out a littlebaby model and started crying. Yeah,79800:55:22.429 --> 00:55:27.110and that woman chose life. Sojust know that you you will be.79900:55:27.349 --> 00:55:30.829The Holy Spirit is there right withyou, but it does help if you80000:55:30.909 --> 00:55:35.630can be prepared. It does helpyour confidence absolutely. Yeah. Well,80100:55:35.710 --> 00:55:37.900guys, we hope this was ablessing to you and we do encourage you80200:55:37.940 --> 00:55:40.340to reach out to us. Reachout to me, Daniel at Love Life80300:55:40.380 --> 00:55:44.059Dot Org. You reach out toher, Vicky at Love Life Dot Org.80400:55:44.420 --> 00:55:47.659If you have suggestions for future podcastepisodes, we'd love to cover those.80500:55:47.699 --> 00:55:52.050Those subjects if we feel like theywould be a blessing. As we80600:55:52.130 --> 00:55:55.809said in the beginning of this pleaseshare this podcast with others and with that,80700:55:57.010 --> 00:56:05.679we hope you have a blessed day. God bless our love for love.80800:56:08.400 --> 00:56:16.880Give me our love for gratitude.I know it will cost me my80900:56:17.199 --> 00:56:24.590life. Nothing's too precious in someyou