July 31, 2019

Can You Be Prochoice and A Christian?

Can You Be Prochoice and A Christian?

We tackle the subject of whether or not a Christian can be pro-choice in this episode. As believers, the foundation of everything we believe should flow out of the word of God. Does the prochoice philosophy have its foundation in scripture? Join as we...


We tackle the subject of whether or not a Christian can be pro-choice in this episode. As believers, the foundation of everything we believe should flow out of the word of God. Does the prochoice philosophy have its foundation in scripture? Join as we dive into this topic. 

www.charlotte.cities4life.org 

www.sidewalks4life.com 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.799 I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me. 2 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:10.349 Lord, I welcome to Gospel Center Prolife, the podcast where we talk 3 00:00:10.390 --> 00:00:13.630 about pro life issues in light of the Gospel. In this episode we're going 4 00:00:13.669 --> 00:00:17.910 to ask the question can you be pro choice and a Christian? Hope your 5 00:00:17.949 --> 00:00:26.260 blessed is you listen to this episode. Stay tuned. I felt show passish 6 00:00:27.339 --> 00:00:35.219 touch your heart. Use. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. 7 00:00:36.570 --> 00:00:40.570 In our episodes we want to deal with issues that people face, questions that 8 00:00:40.649 --> 00:00:44.929 people have about pro life issues and again, the whole focus of this podcast 9 00:00:45.369 --> 00:00:49.329 is talking about pro life issues and abortion in the light of the Gospel. 10 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:53.000 And so we want to talk today and the question just came in my mind 11 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:55.759 the other day, just based on some stuff that I'd read on facebook and 12 00:00:55.840 --> 00:01:00.119 you know, certainly a lot of these these debates and questions aren't new, 13 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:04.670 but the question of can you be pro choice and a Christian, and I'd 14 00:01:04.709 --> 00:01:07.430 send you an emails at these this is like something I think we need to 15 00:01:07.510 --> 00:01:12.109 cover because it's a question that people have. You know, we encounter pro 16 00:01:12.269 --> 00:01:17.069 abortion people on a regular basis in our outreach at the local abortion clinics. 17 00:01:17.469 --> 00:01:23.540 Their pro abortion advocates that stand out there with signs and whatnot who some claim 18 00:01:23.579 --> 00:01:26.500 to be Christians, yea, and claim to at least have some knowledge of 19 00:01:26.739 --> 00:01:33.170 God. And so to me is an important question. Can you be pro 20 00:01:33.329 --> 00:01:36.569 choice and a Christian at the same time? Can you be, you know, 21 00:01:36.650 --> 00:01:40.090 we talked about being pro choice. We're talking about, I mean that's 22 00:01:40.129 --> 00:01:44.730 what we call it, pro abortion because ultimately they are for abortion being a 23 00:01:45.329 --> 00:01:49.640 you know, woman's right, a valid choice. Correct. Yeah, no, 24 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:53.599 I'd say in some sense. Now I've actually talked to pro choice people 25 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:56.920 before and said, you know, I think you know, I'm pro choice 26 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:01.390 in the sense that God gives us the ability to choose. It's just that 27 00:02:01.590 --> 00:02:06.230 what you do with that choice, with your choices, is what you're ultimately 28 00:02:06.230 --> 00:02:10.270 held accountable for when you stand before before the Lord. So you know we're 29 00:02:10.270 --> 00:02:15.229 going to tackle that question a little bit and and so let's just jump right 30 00:02:15.349 --> 00:02:21.180 into it. What can you be pro choice and a Christian at the same 31 00:02:21.259 --> 00:02:27.099 time? Is that possible? And and my answers no, I think. 32 00:02:27.539 --> 00:02:30.370 I think you know, and hopefully we'll go into a little more depth probably 33 00:02:30.409 --> 00:02:36.729 about why why we would say that. But you know, I think for 34 00:02:37.370 --> 00:02:42.650 all questions in life you go to scripture. If you call yourself a Christian, 35 00:02:42.689 --> 00:02:46.960 and that's what our premises are. You're calling yourself a Christian and you're 36 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:52.039 saying that pro choice is a or probe to have an abortion is a valid 37 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.800 choice. Well, if you're a Christian, you should be able to support 38 00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:02.150 that choice. YEA, as far as I'm concerned, you know, with 39 00:03:02.509 --> 00:03:08.590 having conversations about about this on a regular basis with people. Really the truth 40 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:15.740 of the matter is Christianity cannot be separated from the Bible. Right, Christianity 41 00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:22.860 and the Bible are our are married together. You cannot have Christianity without the 42 00:03:22.979 --> 00:03:28.330 Bible. And so as Christians like what? Why would we even call ourselves 43 00:03:28.330 --> 00:03:32.289 Christians if we're not going to embrace the book that talks about Christ I had 44 00:03:32.330 --> 00:03:37.770 a conversation with a young man yesterday who asked me to prove Christianity is true 45 00:03:38.250 --> 00:03:43.360 without using the Bible. I said that's an absurdity because Christianity is a historical 46 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:47.639 religion built on a historical event, the resurrection of Jesus, and the main 47 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:52.639 source for that historical event is a historical book called the New Testament. And 48 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.669 you're asking me to prove history without using a history book, and that's an 49 00:03:55.669 --> 00:04:01.349 absurdity. Yeah, Christianity and the Bible are inseparable, right. And so 50 00:04:02.509 --> 00:04:09.750 what I guess the question is really what does the scripture say about life in 51 00:04:09.870 --> 00:04:13.180 the womb? You know, as we began with our first podcast, what 52 00:04:13.259 --> 00:04:15.860 does it mean to be Gospel centered in prolife? We were in the book, 53 00:04:15.899 --> 00:04:19.259 we're in the Bible. That is Vicky's got her for us. He's 54 00:04:19.300 --> 00:04:23.300 got our huge Bible here that obviously is going to give a us all that 55 00:04:23.339 --> 00:04:29.050 we need to know about about what abortion and life means to the Lord. 56 00:04:29.730 --> 00:04:32.250 But so kind of you know, some thoughts on that as far as you 57 00:04:32.410 --> 00:04:36.769 Christianity the word of God in the issue of abortion? Yeah, yeah, 58 00:04:36.769 --> 00:04:40.959 and you know, you got to start with, I think, the the 59 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:45.560 basics, which is, first of all, sanctity of life. Yes, 60 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:49.879 sacred value of human life. Is there a sacred value of human life? 61 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:55.110 Does God speak about that? And and we know he does, from from 62 00:04:55.149 --> 00:04:58.110 the beginning, from the book, and you know, of Genesis, the 63 00:04:58.149 --> 00:05:00.910 first book in the Bible, Jennifis Genesis one hundred and twenty seven. So 64 00:05:01.069 --> 00:05:04.870 God created man in his own image, in the image of God He created 65 00:05:04.949 --> 00:05:10.379 them, created him male and female. He created them. So right away 66 00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:14.980 from the get go, from the first book, it's God who created human 67 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:17.860 beings in his image, and I think it's really important to talk about what 68 00:05:17.899 --> 00:05:21.449 that means. What does it mean to be created in the image of God? 69 00:05:21.649 --> 00:05:27.490 Yeah, because that probably is what is the value statement? Yeah, 70 00:05:28.290 --> 00:05:32.009 and and that there's already gender assigned, male and female, and from the 71 00:05:32.410 --> 00:05:36.439 moment of creation, because it's when he created them, he created them male 72 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:41.000 and female. And then right away after that, in Verse Twenty Eight, 73 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.959 fill the earth and subdue it, rule over the fish of the sea, 74 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:46.000 the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground. 75 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:50.550 So we're given dominion, there is a hierarchy and and the human beings 76 00:05:50.709 --> 00:06:00.629 clearly have a a greater value, more or and even responsibility exactly over over 77 00:06:00.949 --> 00:06:09.500 the animals. So so God clearly has given a value to human beings. 78 00:06:09.540 --> 00:06:13.220 And and so you know, maybe, Daniel, I know I looked at 79 00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:16.459 this and really I learned a lot as I was kind of studying over. 80 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:20.730 Well, what does it mean to be made in God's image? But I'd 81 00:06:20.730 --> 00:06:26.970 be curious what what your thoughts are of that. Yeah, well, that 82 00:06:27.569 --> 00:06:30.370 means a lot actually. What does it mean to be made in the image 83 00:06:30.370 --> 00:06:34.720 of God? One of the important factors is the factor of dominion, that 84 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:42.439 God gives dominion, he gives rulership to human beings over the creation in it 85 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:48.189 and it's likened unto God's rulership over the universe right now. Obviously it's is 86 00:06:48.230 --> 00:06:51.750 not exactly the same, but it's a it's a position of thought, of 87 00:06:51.870 --> 00:06:56.430 authority being made in the image of God. It's also the you know, 88 00:06:56.949 --> 00:07:01.019 God is spirit right, and we are also spiritual beings. That's part of 89 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:04.339 being made in the image of God, that human beings are spiritual creatures, 90 00:07:04.420 --> 00:07:10.899 where physical creatures, yes, but we're also spiritual creatures. Were both physical 91 00:07:11.300 --> 00:07:15.810 and spiritual creatures and and so you know, that's part of us being made 92 00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:19.290 in the image of God. Another important part is the eternal nature of human 93 00:07:19.370 --> 00:07:24.009 beings. The human beings are eternal, that no matter, you know, 94 00:07:24.970 --> 00:07:27.730 when you die, at some point we will, we're all going to die. 95 00:07:28.290 --> 00:07:33.439 Your your spirit and your soul lives on for eternity, and even also 96 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:38.040 your body after the resurrection of the body, which could be a whole other 97 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:42.360 subject. So you know, some even make the argument that just as God 98 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.949 has try une, father, son and Holy Spirit, that human beings are 99 00:07:46.029 --> 00:07:48.750 try une spirit, soul and body. And now I don't know if I 100 00:07:48.829 --> 00:07:53.110 want to run with that argument. There's some theological discussion about that, whether 101 00:07:53.189 --> 00:07:58.069 people are try une or or or we're just spirit and body. But the 102 00:07:58.149 --> 00:08:01.259 point is is what. We're made in the image of God and it means 103 00:08:01.259 --> 00:08:05.980 a couple of different things. You know, creativity is one of those things. 104 00:08:05.060 --> 00:08:09.180 Yeah, what? What other creature is creative? Right, right, 105 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:15.250 human beings are creative just by our nature. Like we create things, we 106 00:08:15.730 --> 00:08:18.209 paint, we know, write, we whatever we do, we just we 107 00:08:18.290 --> 00:08:24.649 share some of God's attribute, such as exactly. So we're not originators of 108 00:08:24.569 --> 00:08:28.160 things like God, is it in the originator of the creation, but like 109 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:33.200 God, similar to him, we create stuff. We have this creative mind 110 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:35.240 that we so that that's part of what it means to be made in the 111 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:39.440 impage of God. But I think you know just in mind, and you 112 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:41.429 tell me if this is your experience as well. You share with me a 113 00:08:41.710 --> 00:08:46.429 friend of yours, or at least an acquaintance, that that you claim to 114 00:08:46.470 --> 00:08:50.309 be a Christian and in claim to be pro choice. At the same time. 115 00:08:50.590 --> 00:08:54.669 Right from my experience from people who claim to be pro choice and and 116 00:08:54.820 --> 00:08:58.100 still a Christian, what I what I get from them? A lot of 117 00:08:58.220 --> 00:09:03.700 times it's sort of a mentality of well, I'm against abortion for me, 118 00:09:05.059 --> 00:09:07.899 like I would never have an abortion, is what they would say exactly. 119 00:09:07.940 --> 00:09:11.049 But I can't force my morality on another person. So that's sort of the 120 00:09:11.169 --> 00:09:13.730 mentality and it's, you know, in one sense it's sort of like, 121 00:09:15.649 --> 00:09:18.409 I guess it's a noble thing, right, because you don't want to be 122 00:09:18.490 --> 00:09:22.649 judgmental, you don't want to be pushing your beliefs on another person. And 123 00:09:24.289 --> 00:09:28.960 you know, I get that and to some extent I agree that we aren't 124 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:35.000 to force our beliefs on another person. But that sort of equates trying to 125 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:41.590 persist, persuade someone with what you believe with actually forcing that belief on someone, 126 00:09:41.629 --> 00:09:45.509 and those two are not the same thing, right, like Christianity is 127 00:09:45.909 --> 00:09:50.990 actually directly opposed to forcing our beliefs on people. We actually want to persuade 128 00:09:50.990 --> 00:09:56.539 people to believe because to become a Christian it's not just someone makes you a 129 00:09:56.580 --> 00:09:58.620 Christian, someone waves a magic wand and forces you to be a quick Christian 130 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:01.700 or Dunct, you under some water and you become a Christian. Not to 131 00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:05.620 be a question a Christian. Your heart has to be persuaded and turned to 132 00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:07.970 the Lord Right, and so that's the very nature of Christian yeah, yeah, 133 00:10:09.210 --> 00:10:16.169 and if you claim Christ then script sure should be your guide and we 134 00:10:16.330 --> 00:10:20.610 as Christians are called to prevent those who are stumbling to the slaughter, to 135 00:10:20.809 --> 00:10:24.039 rescue the week, to speak for those who cannot speak, to go and 136 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:28.799 make disciples. In other words, there is action involved. One of the 137 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:33.000 one of the things that really, I mean I cringe when I hear it, 138 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.429 is share the Gospel, to Meme, share the Gospel and, if 139 00:10:37.669 --> 00:10:41.070 necessary, use words. Hate that, hate that, because that is so 140 00:10:41.870 --> 00:10:46.870 not biblical. Yeah, I mean the Bible is filled with versus that we 141 00:10:46.990 --> 00:10:52.179 are to go and we are to speak. Who will go? Send Me, 142 00:10:52.740 --> 00:10:56.460 not, who will go? Well, I'll be in the background, 143 00:10:56.620 --> 00:10:58.340 you know, praying that you make the right choice. But he we are 144 00:10:58.460 --> 00:11:05.490 to be sent into to take action, and so I think that that's, 145 00:11:05.889 --> 00:11:11.690 for me, one of the most disturbing things about the socalled, well, 146 00:11:11.850 --> 00:11:18.039 a socalled Christian, being so called the pro choice. In that I think 147 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:24.480 scripture is very clear that when there are weak, vulnerable, mute, those 148 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:30.360 who cannot protect themselves, we are to go and we are to speak for 149 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:35.190 them. Yeah, and I think that demolishes the argument. Can I be 150 00:11:35.309 --> 00:11:39.149 a Christian and be pro choice? You can be pro choice in the terms 151 00:11:39.190 --> 00:11:43.070 of how God speaks about choice, like can deteronomy, what is it three 152 00:11:43.070 --> 00:11:46.629 thousand and nineteen, where he says, I set before you blessing and curse, 153 00:11:46.789 --> 00:11:50.779 life or death. Therefore, choose life right that you and your offspring 154 00:11:50.980 --> 00:11:52.539 may live. You can be pro choice in that way. Yeah, but 155 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:58.740 to say that I'm a Christian and I'm going to ignore God's clear commands regarding 156 00:11:58.779 --> 00:12:05.929 the value of human beings first of all, and then disregard his commands about 157 00:12:05.049 --> 00:12:11.370 taking action to defend those innocent human beings that God has created in values, 158 00:12:11.850 --> 00:12:16.919 I don't think you have a biblical stance. Yeah, yeah, no, 159 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.840 I'd say you definitely. You, from my perspective, you definitely don't have 160 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:24.960 a biblical stance. And and you know as a shit earlier before you even 161 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:28.080 started the podcast, a lot of this is kind of kind of rooted in 162 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.629 almost like the selfishness in this this idea that you know, I don't want 163 00:12:31.629 --> 00:12:35.269 to be seeing seen as judgmental right, it's like one of the biggest fears 164 00:12:35.429 --> 00:12:41.590 that American Christians have at least, is appearing to be judgmental in so many 165 00:12:41.830 --> 00:12:46.259 things, not just abortion but in all the sexual revolution and everything. We 166 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:52.460 can't possibly tell someone what maybe is normal or right or good or follows God's 167 00:12:52.700 --> 00:12:56.179 yeah, fear Word on, because we would be seeing is judgment is almost 168 00:12:56.179 --> 00:13:01.850 like again, the biggest fear. This is kind of the this is the 169 00:13:01.889 --> 00:13:05.169 absurdity of it. It's like if you believe someone might say, yeah, 170 00:13:05.210 --> 00:13:09.809 I'm Christian but I'm pro choice. I would never have abortion because for me 171 00:13:09.850 --> 00:13:13.120 it's morally wrong, but I could never tell someone that they shouldn't have an 172 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:18.000 abortion. Then you're sort of missing the point. Like why? Why is 173 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:20.559 it a moral wrong for you to do it? It's a moral wrong for 174 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:24.080 you to do it, I think, in your mind because you know it's 175 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:26.870 killing another person. Well, if it's wrong for you to kill another person, 176 00:13:28.470 --> 00:13:31.389 then why is it right for someone else, who may not believe that's 177 00:13:31.389 --> 00:13:33.870 a person, to kill that person? Like their lack of belief in the 178 00:13:33.990 --> 00:13:39.110 personhood of that child does not make that act a moral act. It's still 179 00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:43.460 immoral. It's still wrong, it's still sinful. Right again, I think 180 00:13:43.460 --> 00:13:46.299 it's I think it's really that people, that Christians, that might say that 181 00:13:46.340 --> 00:13:50.700 their pro choice and I think we need to I think we need to sort 182 00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.100 of separate this a little bit and that there, I believe, are some 183 00:13:54.340 --> 00:13:56.730 that could be ignorant. It's possible. It's hard for me to believe, 184 00:13:58.409 --> 00:14:01.169 but it's possible that people, maybe new believers whatever, just ignorant about the 185 00:14:01.250 --> 00:14:05.610 issue, ignorance spiritually or ignorant in it about what's involved into just ignorant just 186 00:14:05.690 --> 00:14:09.649 in general. Maybe they don't, maybe they do believe the lie that, 187 00:14:09.809 --> 00:14:11.360 you know, it's a Blob of tissue, clump of sales yea, saying 188 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:13.960 yeah, I think they're yeah. Certainly there needs to be allowance for that. 189 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.720 And in the Bible tells us, Actually Paul Right into Timothy Tells Timothy 190 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.950 to be patient, not be combative, be patient and answering those who are 191 00:14:24.990 --> 00:14:28.149 in opposition so that God might grant them repentant. So I think there's a 192 00:14:28.230 --> 00:14:31.309 there's a time and place certainly to kind of slow down when someone says they're 193 00:14:31.389 --> 00:14:35.070 Christian and their pro choice. It's kind of slow down, don't be offended 194 00:14:35.149 --> 00:14:37.659 saying are you're not, you're a wicked reprobate. You know, we don't 195 00:14:37.659 --> 00:14:41.899 need to take that attitude. There certainly is a time and place where we 196 00:14:41.940 --> 00:14:43.740 say, you know what, the Bible's God's word. If you're not following 197 00:14:43.820 --> 00:14:46.659 what God's word says, then you can't claim to be a Christian, because 198 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:50.220 that is the foundation of Christianity. That the word God right. But to 199 00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:52.929 your pointed, there is the verse and I can't remember if it's the verse 200 00:14:54.009 --> 00:14:56.970 you quota. But restore them gently. You are to restore we are called 201 00:14:58.009 --> 00:15:01.210 to restore them if we see a brother in sin, and if that someone's 202 00:15:01.250 --> 00:15:05.330 claiming to be a Christian and claiming that abortion is a valid choice, then 203 00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:09.919 they should be restored to a proper understanding. But we are to do it 204 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:11.960 in gentleness. Yeah, yeah, you know the word choice is. It 205 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:18.000 can be a tricky word, you know. In reality, I was talking 206 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.870 to some folks actually on the sidewalk just just the other day, some young 207 00:15:20.909 --> 00:15:26.029 folks, and I'll saying, you know what truth is, you can choose 208 00:15:26.110 --> 00:15:30.710 to do whatever you want to. You really can. You can choose to 209 00:15:30.830 --> 00:15:33.389 do whatever you want to. You can go and stand on that building over 210 00:15:33.429 --> 00:15:39.460 there and you can choose to just disbelieve in gravity and jump off. The 211 00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:45.460 fact is your choice is going to imply some consequences or incurse some consequences. 212 00:15:45.500 --> 00:15:48.899 Right, if you choose to jump off that building, then you're the consequences. 213 00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:52.809 You're going to hit the ground. Right. There's a consequence every choice. 214 00:15:52.889 --> 00:15:56.210 Could could a mother choose to kill her unborn child? Yes, she 215 00:15:56.370 --> 00:16:00.370 could choose to do that. Unfortunately, in this country gets still legal and 216 00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:03.929 she can go into an abortion clinic and pay three hundred and sixty dollars, 217 00:16:03.009 --> 00:16:07.279 like it is here in Charlotte or other places. Whatever. You know, 218 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.279 it's whatever the prize might be. He's going to pay that money to in 219 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:14.080 the life of a child. She can choose to do that. A mother 220 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:17.039 could choose to do that to her three year old. She can go and 221 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:21.029 slid her three year olds through it. I mean a mother here, not 222 00:16:21.190 --> 00:16:23.590 too far from here, in Georgia, apparently birth church old and chose to 223 00:16:23.629 --> 00:16:27.590 put in a plastic bag and throw it in the wood. She could choose 224 00:16:27.629 --> 00:16:32.860 to do that. Right. She did apparently choose to do that. It 225 00:16:33.019 --> 00:16:36.580 was not right. Yeah, just because you're you got to give someone the 226 00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:38.940 ability to do something does not mean he's okay with the choice that they make. 227 00:16:40.379 --> 00:16:42.340 That's really the question. Yeah, the trust. The question is not 228 00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:48.129 a can question really, it's a should question. Yeah, should people take 229 00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:52.090 the lives of their babies? Throw abortion right, and should we as Christians 230 00:16:52.490 --> 00:16:56.009 be okay with right? Do not use your freedom as a license to sin. 231 00:16:56.129 --> 00:16:57.809 Yeah, Paull's clear about that. We Are we are not to do 232 00:16:59.289 --> 00:17:03.480 to do that. But, and you know, again this is kind of 233 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:08.759 a separate point, but Jesus specifically says, why do you call me Lord 234 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:11.640 Lord and not do what I say? Well, one of the commandments is 235 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:19.150 that shall not murder. Yeah, and and so the pro choice folks might 236 00:17:19.190 --> 00:17:22.349 say, well, it's not murder, right, and that is what I 237 00:17:22.430 --> 00:17:26.630 hear. Right. I'm sure you hear it too. It's not murdered because 238 00:17:26.750 --> 00:17:30.019 they claim it's not a human being. And then you have tesk. Well, 239 00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:33.500 at what point does script should say, if you're a Christian, when 240 00:17:33.619 --> 00:17:37.579 does God say it's a human being? Well, he says from the moment 241 00:17:37.660 --> 00:17:41.539 of conception. There's plenty of like versus in Psalm, Psalm one hundred and 242 00:17:41.539 --> 00:17:44.849 thirty nine, where it talks about knitting together us together in the womb and 243 00:17:45.329 --> 00:17:48.289 from the moment that that we were knitted together in the womb, he knew 244 00:17:48.329 --> 00:17:52.329 us in the in Jeremiah, he named Jeremiah, is a prophet to the 245 00:17:52.369 --> 00:17:56.170 nation's before one day of his came to be. So there's many verses that 246 00:17:56.329 --> 00:18:02.279 talk about that. They're human from the moment of conception. So when there 247 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:06.319 is the taking of innocent human life, it is murder. Yeah, that 248 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:10.720 that's what murder is, right. Yeah, and you know so one of 249 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:14.150 the arguments is in this can kind of be getting off track a little bit, 250 00:18:15.630 --> 00:18:18.950 but that abortion is not technically murder because murder is a legal term and 251 00:18:19.150 --> 00:18:22.670 since the the government in this country at least, says that it's okay. 252 00:18:22.950 --> 00:18:26.339 Right, there is not technically murder. You know, I might, would, 253 00:18:26.539 --> 00:18:29.619 might, would agree. Yeah, I might, would say, you 254 00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:33.299 know what abortion in the United States of America's currently not murder. Should be 255 00:18:34.299 --> 00:18:37.660 in and in the eyes of God, which ultimately ask Christians right, there's 256 00:18:37.700 --> 00:18:41.849 a higher law. Exactly, exactly. That's our standard. Is what the 257 00:18:41.890 --> 00:18:44.690 Bible says. When God says that I shall not murder, I don't think 258 00:18:44.690 --> 00:18:48.009 he's talking about what whatever. Yeah, the laws, however, the laws 259 00:18:48.130 --> 00:18:52.289 define murder. I define murder as the taking will not meet God. You 260 00:18:52.410 --> 00:18:55.720 definds murderous, the taking of innocent law. Yeah, and you know, 261 00:18:55.960 --> 00:19:00.480 I think a lot of it is possibly ignorant arants. As far as someone 262 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.400 who might claim to be a Christian and be pro choice, some of us, 263 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:07.839 of course, just their false converts. They just really aren't Christians, 264 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.910 right. They just, and that's probably the majority of people that would claim 265 00:19:10.910 --> 00:19:15.109 to be pro choice, just simply they're not born of God and they slap 266 00:19:15.190 --> 00:19:18.829 the tag of Christianity on for cultural reasons or maybe because it makes them feel 267 00:19:18.829 --> 00:19:22.069 good on Sunday or whatever it might be. But the fact is, their 268 00:19:22.109 --> 00:19:26.460 false converse. But those who maybe are, you know, Christians or at 269 00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:30.460 least Christianized in some way, that claim to be pro choice, think probably 270 00:19:30.539 --> 00:19:34.099 have not really thought it out so well, which hopefully, you know us 271 00:19:34.140 --> 00:19:37.650 talking about this, hopefully some folks will pick up on this and and really 272 00:19:37.690 --> 00:19:41.170 think these things through. Yeah, well, let me ask you, because 273 00:19:41.210 --> 00:19:45.009 I think part of that is is going back to where we are. Not 274 00:19:45.210 --> 00:19:47.769 to judge, I do think that that's that's what I hear a lot. 275 00:19:47.849 --> 00:19:52.690 And Yeah, you're from from my friends, not or acquaintances that that say. 276 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:59.359 You know, I agree that abortion is wrong and and and that I 277 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.240 wouldn't do it, like you said, but I can't judge. I should 278 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.950 not judge. We're told biblically. They say that we are not to judge 279 00:20:07.990 --> 00:20:14.390 others. And you being out on the sidewalk and telling these moms you know, 280 00:20:14.549 --> 00:20:19.150 taking the life of your child is wrong. They feel is they call 281 00:20:19.269 --> 00:20:22.819 us not Christian. Yeah, because so Christian be. So I think, 282 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:29.140 I I think that maybe you could talk about well, what are we not 283 00:20:29.299 --> 00:20:32.579 to judge? Do we not do? Are we not supposed to judge? 284 00:20:32.660 --> 00:20:36.609 Because if we are supposed to judge, that seems like something we could maybe 285 00:20:36.690 --> 00:20:40.289 make a judgment about whether it's okay for mom to take their baby's life. 286 00:20:40.529 --> 00:20:45.650 Yeah, I think when people say it's like number, like number one quoted 287 00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:48.369 verse. Yeah, we're at an abortion center, right. I agree. 288 00:20:48.130 --> 00:20:53.000 Thou shalt not just people even sometimes quote it in perfect King James English exactly 289 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:56.960 how shalt not judge it. The atheist, the APE is that I'll Sam 290 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:03.480 an atheist, but the Bible says your bibles was right, the eleventh command 291 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:08.430 right exactly. But actually that's not found in the Bible. Thou shall not 292 00:21:08.470 --> 00:21:14.750 judge. Is Not in the Bible the principle of judging people. And what's 293 00:21:14.789 --> 00:21:18.349 what Jesus deals with when he says judge not lest you be judge. Right, 294 00:21:18.470 --> 00:21:19.420 he goes on. It doesn't just stop there. Didn Say Right, 295 00:21:19.460 --> 00:21:22.059 does not lest you be judge. There's the context. He says for in 296 00:21:22.099 --> 00:21:26.259 the same measure that used to judge will be measured back to you. And 297 00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:30.539 then he talks about you know, why do you judge your brother who has 298 00:21:30.579 --> 00:21:33.450 a speck in his eye when you've got a log sticking out of your own 299 00:21:33.490 --> 00:21:36.170 or plank sticking out of your own e? Then he goes on to say 300 00:21:36.529 --> 00:21:40.289 first remove the plank from your eye and then you can see clearly to help 301 00:21:40.289 --> 00:21:44.690 your brother remove the speck from his eye. So if looking at the speck 302 00:21:44.769 --> 00:21:48.559 in our brother's eyes judgment and what Jesus is talking about saying don't do, 303 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:52.039 then why is he say remove the plank first and then you can help your 304 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.160 brother see? The fact is he's talking about hypocritical judgment. He's talking about 305 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.759 judging people for doing the same stuff that you're doing, which is hypocrisy, 306 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:03.190 which is evil and which we need to guard our hearts against like if we're 307 00:22:03.230 --> 00:22:07.190 going around pointing the finger at other people for doing stuff that we ourselves are 308 00:22:07.269 --> 00:22:11.789 doing. And you know, he's more than likely talking in particular about the 309 00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:18.059 Pharisees who claim to have this outward religious thing going on and yet really inside, 310 00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:19.819 he says, you guys, you're like whitewashed tombs. You look good 311 00:22:19.819 --> 00:22:23.259 on the outside, but inside you're full of dead man's bones. That's hypocrisy. 312 00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:29.059 When it's it's you know, kind of people, through judgments, that 313 00:22:29.180 --> 00:22:33.170 would ever individual or ever lifestyle they can to make themselves really feel and look 314 00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:38.970 better. That's wrong. We shouldn't do that. But to imagine that just 315 00:22:40.210 --> 00:22:45.400 practically as human beings, not just set aside just being Christians. Now, 316 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:48.079 certainly is Christians. We were going to talk about that, but it's human 317 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:52.920 beings. We have to make judgments every day. We make it. What 318 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:57.079 does a judgment basically, a judgment is an assessment of behavior. Right. 319 00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:03.069 It's like I'm looking at a particular behavior and I'm making a judgment of whether 320 00:23:03.069 --> 00:23:07.950 or not that's right or whether it's wrong. And that's normal life. That's 321 00:23:07.990 --> 00:23:11.309 like everyday life. You do it when you're driving down the road. You 322 00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:14.700 know, I get behind some Old Lady who's driving with her hands on the 323 00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:15.619 steering with, I make a judgment and I say, you know what, 324 00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:18.740 she's probably going to keep me from getting to my destination in time, so 325 00:23:18.740 --> 00:23:22.819 I better go around her. Right. Well, even the pro choice people, 326 00:23:22.900 --> 00:23:25.980 when they say thou shall not judge, are making a judgment. They're 327 00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:29.130 judging that we're just yeah, that's so, it happens all the time. 328 00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:32.289 All of us do it all the time. Yeah, certainly, and we 329 00:23:32.529 --> 00:23:34.089 make judgments about all kinds of stuff. Now, of course, in this 330 00:23:34.170 --> 00:23:37.970 context were talking about moral judgments. We're talking about whether or not something is 331 00:23:38.210 --> 00:23:44.000 right or whether it's wrong, whether it's moral or immoral right. And so 332 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.200 oftentimes, I think when people talk about not judging them, you know, 333 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.200 especially people going into an abortion clinic, it's a fig leaf. All in 334 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.990 all, it is for them, at least from my understanding and from my 335 00:23:56.150 --> 00:23:59.910 experience, is they're trying to throw some of the guilt that they feel back 336 00:24:00.029 --> 00:24:02.509 on you. You know, yes, what I'm doing is wrong, killing 337 00:24:02.549 --> 00:24:04.390 my baby through abortion, but what you're doing just as wrong, because you're 338 00:24:04.430 --> 00:24:07.710 judging me for it. And again it's an absurdity right. It doesn't make 339 00:24:07.750 --> 00:24:11.299 sense. It doesn't make sense. And in any other scenario, you know, 340 00:24:11.380 --> 00:24:15.579 you imagine, you know, a mother is about to slit the throat 341 00:24:15.619 --> 00:24:17.819 of for three year old, like I talked about earlier. Could a mother 342 00:24:17.900 --> 00:24:21.299 do that? She could certainly use her volition and do that. She's gonna 343 00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:23.450 stuff for the consequences and that would be immoral. I think everybody would agree 344 00:24:23.450 --> 00:24:27.289 with that. But imagine she's doing that and you come on that scene and 345 00:24:27.410 --> 00:24:32.170 you like stop, don't do that, that's that's wrong. What if she 346 00:24:32.289 --> 00:24:34.250 look back at you as she's got the knife to the to the child's throat, 347 00:24:34.289 --> 00:24:38.079 and says you're judging me, stop judging me. Everyone else would see 348 00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:45.240 that as like this person is really completely deceived. They are about to kill 349 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:48.480 a person and yet they're talking about me judging them. And yet that's what 350 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.910 we see at an abortion class. So we see in conversations with people who 351 00:24:53.309 --> 00:24:57.670 who claim to be Christians and pro choice or whatever, who, when they 352 00:24:57.710 --> 00:25:02.150 talk about judgment right, they really mean don't tell me what I'm doing is 353 00:25:02.269 --> 00:25:04.589 immoral. Right, yeah, and and, but, but we are told 354 00:25:04.829 --> 00:25:10.619 throughout scripture we are to judge correctly, judge righteously remove the log. But 355 00:25:10.779 --> 00:25:14.140 then, so the implication is then, after we move the plank in your 356 00:25:14.140 --> 00:25:17.619 own eye, then then you are able to see clearly to judge. So 357 00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:22.250 where to judge? Angels? Right. So we are called upon as Christians 358 00:25:22.329 --> 00:25:25.730 to judge. And in fact, how can we be light to the world 359 00:25:25.890 --> 00:25:32.410 and salt preserving a culture, which is what salt is, a preservative we 360 00:25:32.609 --> 00:25:36.119 are as Christians, we are the light. We illuminate the darkness, we 361 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:42.039 illuminate sin. Yeah, and we are salved. We preserve the pure righteousness 362 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:45.440 of God. How can we do that if we're unable to judge what is 363 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:51.349 right or wrong? So God, he he is our righteousness. He is 364 00:25:51.470 --> 00:25:55.470 what gives us the ability to judge, and that's what scripture says. As 365 00:25:55.549 --> 00:26:00.750 the Holy Spirit enters, he teaches us and guides us into all righteousness so 366 00:26:00.869 --> 00:26:04.819 that we are able to judge with righteousness. And I think for a Christian 367 00:26:04.940 --> 00:26:08.220 to not use that gift of God, it's a gift, it's a gift 368 00:26:08.259 --> 00:26:12.980 to be able to go to others and rescue them from stumbling to the slaughter, 369 00:26:14.579 --> 00:26:18.130 I think it is denying again what what we have been called to do. 370 00:26:18.490 --> 00:26:23.930 Yeah, absolutely, scripture says that the righteous man judges all things. 371 00:26:25.369 --> 00:26:30.930 Yeah, the righteous man or woman makes an assessment of certain behaviors and certain 372 00:26:32.009 --> 00:26:36.359 things. Now, you know the judgments that we make if they're motivated by 373 00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:40.079 selfishness, like if I'm making a judgment, a moral assessment about someone else's 374 00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:42.559 behavior and the root of that is to make me feel better about myself, 375 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:47.000 like that person is really immoral and even though I'm in moral I'm not as 376 00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:48.670 immoral is them. So it makes me feel better. That's that's wrong right. 377 00:26:49.150 --> 00:26:52.789 But if our judgment of something that's immoral is rooted in, you know, 378 00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:56.230 love for God first, because that's where I love is supposed to be 379 00:26:56.269 --> 00:26:57.910 in our affections are supposed to be to God first, but also to our 380 00:26:57.950 --> 00:27:00.779 neighbor, you know, like the issue of homosexuality. You know, I 381 00:27:00.819 --> 00:27:04.259 would I look at that, that behavior and I say that it's immoral, 382 00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:07.980 and I look in God's Word and based on what God says and God's disapproval 383 00:27:07.980 --> 00:27:12.059 of that lifestyle, I can say that's in it's immoral. And when I 384 00:27:12.099 --> 00:27:15.849 talk to a homosexual and I say listen, your lifestyle, and you know 385 00:27:15.890 --> 00:27:18.250 I'm not telling them you God hate fags or anything like that. But I'm 386 00:27:18.250 --> 00:27:22.329 telling them, according to what I see in the word of God, that 387 00:27:22.490 --> 00:27:26.049 lifestyle is unacceptable to God. I'm not doing that to make myself feel better. 388 00:27:26.329 --> 00:27:30.480 I'm not doing that because I want them to feel bad necessarily. I'm 389 00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:33.319 doing that because I know that they're headed toward destruction. Yeah, they're headed 390 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:40.480 toward a destructive in that destructive direction, live in a destructive lifestyle. And 391 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:45.269 the same way with a mom going into an abortion clinic or someone who thinks 392 00:27:45.309 --> 00:27:48.430 it's okay to take a baby's life through abortion. We know, based on 393 00:27:48.589 --> 00:27:52.509 scripture, that we're all going to stand before God and give an account for 394 00:27:52.630 --> 00:27:56.549 our lives. And you know, I gave this example actually to to one 395 00:27:56.589 --> 00:28:00.900 of the pro abortion ladies months and months ago when she was talking about you 396 00:28:02.019 --> 00:28:06.579 know, you're you know you had a I think they actually mentioned about you. 397 00:28:06.619 --> 00:28:10.019 You had abortion in your past. And Vicky's out here judging these people 398 00:28:10.059 --> 00:28:12.210 for doing something that she did. And how can she do that? How 399 00:28:12.289 --> 00:28:15.450 can she judge these people for doing something she did? Her abortion was okay 400 00:28:15.730 --> 00:28:18.970 and there's aren't. And of course you've never said you're abortion. Absolutely not. 401 00:28:19.210 --> 00:28:22.730 That's the first premise that's absolutely right. It was far from U but 402 00:28:22.809 --> 00:28:26.730 I gave the example just off the top of my head, the Best I 403 00:28:26.769 --> 00:28:29.160 could come up with. But you know, there's woods right across the street 404 00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:32.680 from from the abortion center there, and I said, what if I went 405 00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.519 in those woods and I got bit by by copper head? And I was 406 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:38.079 walking through those woods after I got bit by a copper head and I see 407 00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:41.630 there's ten copper heads and there's a hundred. The whole woods are full of 408 00:28:41.670 --> 00:28:45.150 copper heads and I made it, by the grace of God, out of 409 00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:48.910 those woods and got medical attention and finally got back on my feet and I 410 00:28:48.029 --> 00:28:51.549 came out here and I saw people going into those woods and I yell them 411 00:28:51.589 --> 00:28:53.269 don't go in there. There's copper heads in there. They will kill you 412 00:28:53.509 --> 00:28:56.380 like you will. You will lose your life, you end up in the 413 00:28:56.420 --> 00:29:00.259 hospital like I did. Would that be like immoral for me to do that 414 00:29:00.579 --> 00:29:03.259 or I think that would be one of the most moral things I could do. 415 00:29:03.380 --> 00:29:06.619 That's a great example, and though the least moral thing you could do 416 00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:08.500 is to come out this is a hey, you got you gotta go. 417 00:29:08.619 --> 00:29:11.250 Take me that path. I'm not gonna Change You for going in there. 418 00:29:11.369 --> 00:29:14.930 Yeah, exact. And so we know, based on, you know, 419 00:29:15.009 --> 00:29:19.569 your personal experience, based on conversations with with many people who've had abortions right, 420 00:29:21.089 --> 00:29:23.250 that it's destructive, certainly to the baby, and that's that's sort of 421 00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:26.920 you know where we're coming from. Obviously it's destructive to the baby, but 422 00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:30.680 it's also destructive to the mothers that have abortions. That's right. Um, 423 00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:37.319 it's destructive to families. They're touched by abortion. We've seen the ravages of 424 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:42.509 abortion in in in relationships and families, with with grandparents of mothers who've had 425 00:29:42.509 --> 00:29:48.190 abortions and and all the like. It it's ugly tentacles reach into every area 426 00:29:48.349 --> 00:29:52.750 of society. It does. And look at the the the couple that stopped 427 00:29:52.829 --> 00:29:56.660 today, that that stopped to they they had an eight year old in their 428 00:29:56.779 --> 00:30:00.460 car. who had they had come to the trobe where we are on the 429 00:30:00.539 --> 00:30:06.420 sidewalk eight years ago to abort their child. The woman came. I don't 430 00:30:06.460 --> 00:30:10.809 believe that the father the child was with her. She was being told that 431 00:30:11.289 --> 00:30:14.410 she had to do that in order to not to have the rest of her 432 00:30:14.410 --> 00:30:18.529 children removed from her home. So she was being coerced. Clearly illegal clearly 433 00:30:18.690 --> 00:30:23.359 wrong. But the father was not a part of that. And and today 434 00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:30.759 she came to show her children this is what almost happened. These are the 435 00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:36.750 people that showed me and helped me not to do that. And then she 436 00:30:36.950 --> 00:30:41.069 came back again about a half an hour later with the father of a eight 437 00:30:41.069 --> 00:30:45.029 year old, and that father is almost in tears as he's shaking my hand. 438 00:30:45.269 --> 00:30:48.430 I wasn't the one that was here eight years ago, but thanking us, 439 00:30:48.589 --> 00:30:52.740 thanking cities for life and saying that's my baby, that's my baby. 440 00:30:53.420 --> 00:30:57.660 So the you know, the fact that there were people out there that were 441 00:30:59.180 --> 00:31:03.529 judging right from wrong was what preserved that that child's life, but also that 442 00:31:03.849 --> 00:31:11.609 father that he would have been one of the sacrifices, as the casualties. 443 00:31:11.690 --> 00:31:15.250 That's what I meant, the casualty of abortion, because she went there, 444 00:31:15.289 --> 00:31:18.400 as far as I know, without without his knowledge. Yeah, he was 445 00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:22.200 the father that child. So you're exactly right. It it's it's so destructive 446 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:30.240 and who better really to speak about the destruction from abortion than someone who has 447 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.109 personally experienced and yeah, yeah, so one of the first things my sister 448 00:31:33.150 --> 00:31:40.829 asked me when when I started working with cities for life was, well, 449 00:31:41.470 --> 00:31:44.950 how can you do that? What about your own abortion? Yeah, and 450 00:31:45.029 --> 00:31:49.619 I said that's why I'm doing it, because I know the horror of what 451 00:31:49.779 --> 00:31:55.259 I did and I didn't recognize it at the time, yet I do now. 452 00:31:55.740 --> 00:32:00.529 And I think the greatest act of love that that you can show towards 453 00:32:00.569 --> 00:32:06.609 another human being is if you are able to keep them from a path that 454 00:32:06.849 --> 00:32:13.849 you know is going to result in despair and horror that you direct them. 455 00:32:13.890 --> 00:32:17.119 Yeah, otherwise. Yeah, and of course you know, even that aside, 456 00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:22.640 you know it's not true that women aren't affected by abortions. They are 457 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:28.240 affected by abortions. But even if they weren't, still we're looking at at 458 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:34.029 an act that actively destroys the life of an innocent person. Yeah, and 459 00:32:34.309 --> 00:32:38.470 as believers in Jesus and people who believe, like where we started, that 460 00:32:38.630 --> 00:32:44.539 human beings are unique in our value. Every creature is valuable, but not 461 00:32:44.660 --> 00:32:46.299 every creature is made in the image of God, and that's not every creature 462 00:32:46.299 --> 00:32:51.299 has the same value. Human beings have a value that's above and beyond it's 463 00:32:51.339 --> 00:32:54.700 not pride, it's what God's word says, and we're looking at what God 464 00:32:54.859 --> 00:33:00.529 says about human beings and to imagine that it's okay and that we shouldn't make 465 00:33:00.569 --> 00:33:05.450 a judgment about the destruction of innocent human lives. Is, you know again, 466 00:33:05.490 --> 00:33:08.569 it's it makes us disagree with God. You know, we disagree with 467 00:33:08.690 --> 00:33:13.599 God, and you know, as a believer, I mean the way that 468 00:33:13.720 --> 00:33:19.079 you come into the faith is by agreeing with God. You don't come into 469 00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:22.680 the faith, you don't become a Christian until you've agreed that God is righteous, 470 00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:28.589 he's holy, and that your sin is wrong and that you need to 471 00:33:28.630 --> 00:33:31.069 be saved. Right, that has to be the way you have to do. 472 00:33:31.109 --> 00:33:34.230 You have to understand you're a center, that you need a savior, 473 00:33:34.269 --> 00:33:37.589 which is agreeing with God's word. So, therefore, everything else that flows 474 00:33:37.630 --> 00:33:42.140 out of our lives as Christians should be in agreement with God. It doesn't 475 00:33:42.140 --> 00:33:45.660 mean like, you know, I've read some passages where, you know, 476 00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:49.500 God's really cut me deep. You know, Hebrews Twelve, is it? 477 00:33:49.539 --> 00:33:52.059 Where the God's Word is like a two edged sword? Right, I've been 478 00:33:52.099 --> 00:33:54.099 cut. You've probably been cut by God's words. Like it's not stuff I 479 00:33:54.099 --> 00:33:57.930 disagree with, but stuff I don't particularly like, like I have to love 480 00:33:58.009 --> 00:34:00.890 my enemies, you know, I have to lay my life down. I 481 00:34:00.970 --> 00:34:04.849 have to love my wife as Christ love the church. Yeah, that's not 482 00:34:05.130 --> 00:34:08.050 easy and it's going to be hard for me, but I agree that what 483 00:34:08.130 --> 00:34:12.159 you say is right, God, and I'm going to buy your grace do 484 00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:15.599 what you've called me to do. So, when we come to places in 485 00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:17.320 God's word, and you know, we look at society and it has its 486 00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:22.239 opinions and it has its morality, which is always changing, it always shifting, 487 00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:29.909 we cannot take society's morality and just receive it as Christians and say, 488 00:34:30.030 --> 00:34:31.989 well, you know, it's Society's morality, so that's because that's what my 489 00:34:32.110 --> 00:34:36.429 morality is, and disregard the word of God. Once we begin to disregard 490 00:34:36.469 --> 00:34:42.019 the word of God, then we have removed ourselves from the foundation of Christianity 491 00:34:42.099 --> 00:34:45.460 itself. And so to disregard God's word and still claim to be a Christian 492 00:34:46.099 --> 00:34:51.219 is is a contradiction. It's just it's just not not possible. Yeah, 493 00:34:51.219 --> 00:34:53.289 Jesus was the word, I mean the word, the word God. God 494 00:34:53.369 --> 00:34:57.889 used the word to speak all creation into being. So the word is critical 495 00:34:58.010 --> 00:35:04.010 and it's it should be the the go to foundation of absolutely every red. 496 00:35:04.090 --> 00:35:08.559 Yeah, everything that we are, and that applies to whether we believe abortion 497 00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:13.760 is right or wrong and whether we believe that we should take a stand, 498 00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:19.199 yeah, for or against. I always always return to well, what does 499 00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:21.909 God say? Yeah, I mean I think also, you know, just 500 00:35:22.030 --> 00:35:25.550 kind of wrapping up here, one of the mentalities of people who maybe wouldn't 501 00:35:25.550 --> 00:35:29.429 go as far as even to call themselves pro choice, but they might say 502 00:35:29.590 --> 00:35:32.510 something to the effect of, yeah, I'm pro alive, but I would 503 00:35:32.550 --> 00:35:37.420 never do what you guys do right to an abortion clinic. Yes, I 504 00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:44.579 would never actively oppose abortion or whatever. It's like Jesus said, either you're 505 00:35:44.619 --> 00:35:45.940 for me are you against me. It's like you need to make a decision 506 00:35:46.340 --> 00:35:49.619 now. Don't mean by that that you're not a Christian if you don't come 507 00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:51.730 out to an abortion clinic anything like that. It's not what I mean to 508 00:35:51.769 --> 00:35:54.210 say. But what I do mean to say is that if there is something 509 00:35:54.329 --> 00:36:00.769 that is a moral evil that exists in your society, to not be actively 510 00:36:00.809 --> 00:36:06.880 involved in some way in opposing that moral evil is, in one sense a 511 00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:10.760 denial of what God has called us to do. He has called us to 512 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:17.710 actively oppose evil. or It's a testit approval of that e could and it's 513 00:36:17.989 --> 00:36:22.190 by our silence, we are what we are saying. Someone. What's the 514 00:36:22.389 --> 00:36:25.150 is it Edmond Burke quote? That all it takes for evil to triumphans for 515 00:36:25.230 --> 00:36:30.349 good men to do nothing. And Yeah, you know apathy, apathy actually 516 00:36:30.389 --> 00:36:34.539 speaks, a speaks volumes. If that's what you what you fail to do, 517 00:36:34.659 --> 00:36:37.179 when you refuse to do is a matter of fact. I believe we 518 00:36:37.300 --> 00:36:40.260 stand before God, that you will give an account for not just the stuff 519 00:36:40.300 --> 00:36:44.219 that we actively did, that was wrong, yeah, but for the stuff 520 00:36:44.219 --> 00:36:47.050 that we passively refused and failed to do. Why did you not? Jesus 521 00:36:47.090 --> 00:36:51.369 says that. Why, where were you when I was in prison? Where 522 00:36:51.409 --> 00:36:53.130 were you when I was hungry? Where were you when I was thirsty? 523 00:36:53.289 --> 00:36:57.449 Well, we should have been there. We should be there in those babies 524 00:36:57.530 --> 00:37:00.599 are there in prison, yeah, and those MOMS are. Yeah, there, 525 00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:04.079 they're third prison. Of the MOMS are in the prison. Of See. 526 00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:07.159 I mean it speaks of you know that passage Matthew Twenty five. It 527 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:13.760 speaks of sort of this this rejection, in these these Jesus identifies with those 528 00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:15.789 who are rejected by society, those who are sick, those are in prison, 529 00:37:15.869 --> 00:37:20.150 those who kind of the untouchable sort of people yeah, it's sort of 530 00:37:20.150 --> 00:37:24.869 the measure of the genuineness of our Christianity is what we do with those real 531 00:37:24.909 --> 00:37:28.630 the least of these, how we act what those were the least of these. 532 00:37:28.989 --> 00:37:31.659 It's like, if your Christianity is real, then it will be on 533 00:37:31.900 --> 00:37:36.980 display and how you act toward those who are the least of these. M 534 00:37:37.820 --> 00:37:44.929 and in our society, I can't see a group of people more identified with 535 00:37:45.050 --> 00:37:47.050 Jesus and that passage as far as the least of these, where he identifies 536 00:37:47.130 --> 00:37:52.610 himself with them, then the unborn. That's right, they are the least 537 00:37:52.690 --> 00:37:57.010 of the least of these. Yeah, they're the smallest, most vulnerable and 538 00:37:57.130 --> 00:38:01.440 most endangered group of human beings right now. Yeah, on earth and in 539 00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:06.800 a place that was designed perfectly by God to be a place of protection and 540 00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:10.039 instead is one of the most dangerous places on earth, which is the human 541 00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:14.949 womb. Yeah, so for us to be silent on that, I think 542 00:38:15.070 --> 00:38:21.989 is is is is not being who God has has called us to. Yeah. 543 00:38:22.030 --> 00:38:24.550 Absolutely. So, just to wrap up here, you know, I 544 00:38:24.710 --> 00:38:29.539 think, man, I think we think we've solved this, this dilemma. 545 00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:31.699 I think we've answered this question. I've got one more Kay. When you 546 00:38:31.780 --> 00:38:35.260 are you on more thing, one more thing for you to talk about, 547 00:38:35.260 --> 00:38:38.900 because I do hear it a lot. Okay, that well, but those 548 00:38:39.099 --> 00:38:43.809 babies he's are the Christian speaking, those babies are going to go to heaven 549 00:38:44.250 --> 00:38:49.769 anyway. And look at what you're doing to those women. We should be 550 00:38:49.929 --> 00:38:55.199 winning them over with just, you know, kindness, love, affirmation, 551 00:38:55.280 --> 00:39:00.840 yeah, encouragement. Those babies are okay, the babies are going to be 552 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:05.159 with Jesus. Yeah, so respond to that. Yeah, I mean easy 553 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:09.070 kind of you know, quick response would be. You know, that kid 554 00:39:09.150 --> 00:39:14.829 over there's drowning in us in a swimming pool, and you know that kids 555 00:39:14.869 --> 00:39:16.989 three years years old and they're going to go to heaven anyway. MMM. 556 00:39:17.750 --> 00:39:22.789 So really don't want to, you know, involve myself and breaking the law 557 00:39:22.869 --> 00:39:25.059 and trispassing on these people's property. You know, after all, they might 558 00:39:25.099 --> 00:39:30.619 not like me going on there, you know, and their backlong to rescue 559 00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:34.059 that kid. You know, it's absurdity, but it's sort of like again, 560 00:39:34.099 --> 00:39:37.179 it's sort of misses the point. Like the point is not just that 561 00:39:37.300 --> 00:39:42.650 women are making a bad decision. It's not just that they're making a bad 562 00:39:42.730 --> 00:39:47.530 medical decision. They're killing another person, right and it's a it's a violent 563 00:39:47.530 --> 00:39:51.730 act. You know, we're talking about another person that suffers. Just because 564 00:39:51.849 --> 00:39:57.079 that person in their suffering, ultimately will end and they'll go to heaven doesn't 565 00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:00.360 mean it's it's okay for us to turn a blind eye to their suffering, 566 00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:05.599 like we have to meet people in their suffering. You know, we could 567 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:08.389 say that for our brothers and sisters around the world who are suffering persecution who, 568 00:40:08.389 --> 00:40:12.429 you know, in some Islamic countries and some, you know, Communist 569 00:40:12.469 --> 00:40:15.789 countries and other countries, are being persecuted in their heads are being chopped off 570 00:40:15.869 --> 00:40:19.150 and there being tortured. They going to get to heaven, you know, 571 00:40:19.190 --> 00:40:21.820 they're going to get to heaven anyway. So really, I mean, why 572 00:40:21.820 --> 00:40:23.539 do we need to send money? Why do we need to to send aid 573 00:40:23.659 --> 00:40:29.139 and that sort of thing? It's sort of misses the point, right yeah, 574 00:40:29.260 --> 00:40:31.780 it's almost an excuse for inaction. It is. It's an excuse for 575 00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:36.849 for apathy on we have of Christians now, of course, you know, 576 00:40:36.889 --> 00:40:38.889 I don't mean to say and I'm sure you don't mean to say that, 577 00:40:39.329 --> 00:40:45.489 you know, abortion clinic ministry or Pro Life Ministry or Pro Life Activism is 578 00:40:45.769 --> 00:40:49.210 is the only ministry that we're called to. Certainly there are people who are 579 00:40:49.210 --> 00:40:52.960 going over overseas and sharing the Gospel. There are people who are involved actively 580 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:57.840 and evangelism that are not going to abortion clinics. Are Pastors that are doing 581 00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:00.559 what they can in the pulpit to pastor there the congregation, that kind of 582 00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:04.829 stuff them. Not Everybody can can do what we do, and I don't 583 00:41:04.829 --> 00:41:08.230 expect for everyone to do what we do, but everyone can and everyone should 584 00:41:08.230 --> 00:41:15.829 speak out against the immorality that abortion is. If we claim to be Christians 585 00:41:15.150 --> 00:41:19.860 and if we claim to have a foundation of our beliefs from God's word. 586 00:41:20.380 --> 00:41:24.659 The God's Word is very clear that to take an innocent life is wrong and 587 00:41:24.820 --> 00:41:30.340 abortion is taking an innocent life and as a society, for for us as 588 00:41:30.340 --> 00:41:35.530 a society to put our stamp of approval on that will incur the judgment of 589 00:41:35.570 --> 00:41:37.130 God on us as a society. And so those who are supposed to be 590 00:41:37.170 --> 00:41:43.650 salt and light in society are supposed to, as much as we can, 591 00:41:43.809 --> 00:41:46.159 defer the judgment of God from our nation and seek the good of our nation 592 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:52.599 by actively being involved in uprooting evil. And abortion is one of the first 593 00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:57.880 evils in our society, I believe. Yeah, absolutely so. So I 594 00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:02.429 think again that we've answered this question that you cannot be Christian and pro choice 595 00:42:02.429 --> 00:42:06.429 at the same time. Yeah, not, unless you're twisting scripture. Yeah, 596 00:42:06.949 --> 00:42:09.389 or we have a grave misunderstanding of yeah. Now, I think at 597 00:42:09.429 --> 00:42:13.510 some point this is this is for a different podcast. Maybe this is sort 598 00:42:13.550 --> 00:42:15.820 of like just a motivation for people who are watching, the people who are 599 00:42:15.860 --> 00:42:20.539 listening, to keep listening. We hope that they will. But I'd like 600 00:42:20.659 --> 00:42:22.260 to deal with you know, because one of the arguments that I've had from 601 00:42:22.300 --> 00:42:29.780 from pro choice people is that the Bible has within its pages a God putting 602 00:42:29.820 --> 00:42:32.369 a stamp of approval on abortion. And the numbers passage. Yes, yeah, 603 00:42:32.530 --> 00:42:36.530 it believe it's numbers Chapter Eight, yeah, where it's almost like a 604 00:42:36.610 --> 00:42:38.929 God prescribed abortion. You know, I want us to talk about that. 605 00:42:39.130 --> 00:42:43.530 Yeah, at some point. I think it's not not what I have enough 606 00:42:43.570 --> 00:42:45.639 time to really talk about that on this particular podcast. Will deal with that 607 00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:50.639 and I actually had reached out to, you know, to Dr Michael Brown, 608 00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:52.719 who's a Hebrew scholar, and just ask him about this passage. Now, 609 00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:59.070 depending on what version you read, it reads differently. But but we'll 610 00:42:59.070 --> 00:43:01.469 talk about that? Okay, future. Yeah, that's some Christians might struggle 611 00:43:01.510 --> 00:43:05.670 with that and be like, what about this passage? And there's a there's 612 00:43:05.670 --> 00:43:09.469 another passage in exodus that sort of can, depending on the way it's translated, 613 00:43:10.309 --> 00:43:15.780 can maybe put a stamp of approval on hurting an unborn child and taking 614 00:43:15.780 --> 00:43:19.300 an unborn child's life. So we'll talk about that. But as far as 615 00:43:19.300 --> 00:43:23.980 this is concerned, you know, it's really impossible to be a Christian and 616 00:43:24.179 --> 00:43:28.409 hold to a pro choice stands and I think again, you can be ignorant 617 00:43:28.489 --> 00:43:32.329 of all the facts and really be ignorant and maybe just coming into the faith 618 00:43:32.409 --> 00:43:37.210 or whatever and not fully informed of this stuff. And certainly, you know, 619 00:43:37.289 --> 00:43:42.159 it's our place to do things like this and answer that question as best 620 00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:45.159 we can from the word of God, and then we have opportunities talk to 621 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:49.679 people one on one to just show them what God's word says about the unborn. 622 00:43:49.719 --> 00:43:52.239 Aren't about our our need to protect them. Yeah, so we appreciate 623 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:55.110 all those who are watching and listening. Hope that you're blessed by this. 624 00:43:57.230 --> 00:44:00.309 You can go to our website at Charlotte dot cities for Life Dot Org. 625 00:44:00.389 --> 00:44:05.030 Can get connected with cities for life here in Charlotte. Also have a website 626 00:44:05.110 --> 00:44:07.869 that's set up for people nationally who want to get involved in sidewalk counseling in 627 00:44:07.909 --> 00:44:15.340 their city, called sidewalks for lifecom. Sidewalks the number for lifecom, and 628 00:44:15.980 --> 00:44:19.699 we're also on facebook. Sidewalks for life is on facebook and cities for life 629 00:44:19.780 --> 00:44:23.449 is on facebook and we hope that you're blessed by this podcast and you can 630 00:44:23.489 --> 00:44:28.250 certainly reach out to us through email or again through facebook. But we appreciate 631 00:44:28.329 --> 00:44:40.239 all those who listen and who watch. God bless for love. Give me 632 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:53.230 our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's 633 00:44:53.389 --> 00:44:57.030 too precious. And some met you